When in war lying becomes a crime

140
When in war lying becomes a crime

I wrote this material at the request of one of the unit commanders, who is now at the LBS. We have known each other for quite a long time, and the topic is quite relevant even after many months of fighting. It's about... lies. More precisely, about lies for good and lies for harm. This can be called differently. Misinformation, ignorance of the situation, an attempt to hide their commander’s mistakes or the cowardice of their subordinates, etc.

I'll start with something a little different. Something that almost no one talks about.



Once upon a time at school we studied a strange subject for peacetime - NVP. Basic military training. We were lucky. Our teacher was an old senior lieutenant. Participant of the Great Patriotic War. And he taught us the way he probably taught his soldiers during that war.

In the tenth grade, we knew very well what today, for some reason, even those who arrive at LBS after school do not know. We knew that we couldn’t lie to the commander! It’s impossible because your lies could cost the lives of your comrades and you. We knew that we should not huddle together even when the enemy was sleeping or eating. Gathered in a group - you will receive a mine from the enemy.

We even knew that running heroically during artillery fire almost always meant getting a shell or mine fragment. And what they show in the movies is complete nonsense. The fragments do not fly vertically. Sometimes you watch videos of the work of some units and are amazed that they have not yet reached the level of the 200s or 300s. The fighters are wandering along the greenery, almost huddled against each other. And the signature: “Our intelligence officers at work”...

This knowledge is so simple and obvious that then, not knowing and not knowing what war is, it seemed to us a waste of time. It would be better to go to a shooting range and shoot from a small gun... And only then, with life experience, did I understand that the military instructor, by the way, I repeat - a front-line soldier, taught us not just to shoot and advance and retreat according to the military tactics of that time, he taught us to survive in war.

This is probably why I decided to write about the first rule. Don't lie to the commander! This rule applies to everyone without exception. From a simple soldier to the Minister of Defense. Lying in war is too expensive. And no punishment of a liar will bring back the lives of those who died due to the fault of the liar.

From lies to crime


Yes, I'm not mistaken. Sometimes lying actually leads to crime. And the higher the liar’s position, the more serious the consequences of lying. But it is quite difficult to eradicate this phenomenon, already because honesty is punished. It is also difficult because, alas, the truth does not always coincide with the wishes of higher-ups.

Let me remind you of the 1941 trial regarding the actions of the commander of the Western Special Military District, General Pavlov. Until now, the debate on this issue is not a joke. Yes, the commander went through the stages of growth of a military leader in a rather original way. But for the army of that time such generals were a dime a dozen.

I started straight away with the position... commander of a cavalry regiment in Turkestan! Remember the movie "Officers"? It shows the war with the Basmachi quite truthfully. If we call what the Red Army did there, then I would call it an anti-partisan operation. Next, Pavlov took a new turn in his career - brigade commander of a mechanized brigade. This was when there was not even a concept for using such compounds.

Then service outside the personnel. Training, study of technology, etc. The district commander is ready! No division commander, no corps commander, no army commander. Immediate district commander. I don’t want to argue about competence or incompetence. I'm talking about lies...

Remember the situation at that time. When did Stalin try his best to delay the war? Accordingly, all opinions that did not coincide with his became the opinion of enemies. And we must fight our enemies. And people began to report as Joseph Vissarionovich demanded. This is how they reported to Pavlov, and this is how Pavlov reported. That's what everyone reported.

And those who tried to “open the eyes” of Stalin quickly replenished the number of Gulag inmates. True, later, those who were lucky enough to survive after interrogations and escape from the camps were lucky enough to become great commanders of that war. The big lie resulted in millions of lives lost during the initial period of the war.

Why did I tell you my opinion about that time?

Yes, simply because every day I come across the fact that you cannot immediately trust official data. This is already a habit. Neither ours nor the Ukrainian ones. To be honest, often what I read in official messages does not coincide with what actually exists. The general from the press says one thing, and the captain from the company at the LBS says something completely different.

It even reaches the point of insanity. It seems that those at the top somehow know “differently” about the state of units and subunits and their actions. Some say “they repulsed so many attacks,” others say “they don’t allow us to advance.” Recently I congratulated a tanker I knew. In response: “Thank you. Don’t forget to congratulate me on Artillery Day”... Such is the sarcasm of the front line.

Well, okay, unit level, even brigade level. Perhaps the command has some kind of strategic plan that is not brought to the level of the relevant commander. Remember - “in the part that concerns them.” But lies at a higher level, as was the case with General Pavlov?

The commander of the direction or the operation as a whole, the General Staff, receives incorrect initial data. So, what is next? And then tragedy. The initial data is curved, then what will be the decision of the corresponding commander or headquarters? Also crooked! They reported that such and such a village was ours, which meant we didn’t need to take it again. This means that neither funds nor time will be allocated for this task! And vice versa…

But this is the most important moment of any military operation. If not to speak even louder. Reliability of information is the basis of war. For this, there are many channels of reconnaissance, searching for information in any way. But no intelligence will say more about the state of units and subunits than the commander.

And then, after it turns out that the decision is crooked, the commander will become the scapegoat. As has already happened during the SVO. The responsibility lies with him. Didn’t provide, didn’t track, didn’t check and so on... And the losses are also on him...

Instead of a conclusion


I understand that now there will be those who will tell me about disinformation, information war, and so on. I agree, sometimes it is necessary to use the media to spread false information. Sometimes it is even necessary to resort to more radical channels of such stuffing. But that's not what this is about.

It's about lying to your commanders. This is not an information war. This is not the work of special forces. This is caring about your own career. It's no secret that we have military personnel who care about awards, positions and status. Whether it’s good or bad, I won’t write here. But they exist. This is the choice of everyone.

Something suddenly came to mind. Probably many remember the famous painting from the USSR “V. I. Lenin at the All-Russian subbotnik in the Kremlin on May 1, 1920” from 1927, which was located in the Museum of the Revolution in Moscow. So, as the guide once said there, the museum contains memories of this moment from 22 participants in this carrying. Let me remind you that in the picture with Ilyich, five Red Army soldiers are carrying a log...
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  1. old
    +44
    21 September 2023 04: 37
    About the information war.

    The situation at the Kleshcheevka-Kurdyumovka line in the Andreevka area is very difficult. It is very heavy, mainly not because the enemy, in principle, managed to push through our defenses in this sector. The key problem is the hysterical response actions that our command is taking in this area.

    In addition to their actual advancement on the ground, the enemy worked out the situation with Andreevka well in the media field. As a result, we have hysterical attempts to recapture the ruins of Andreevka. Equally hysterical attempts to counterattack are taking place in the surrounding area.

    So they post a video calling on the guys from the motorized rifle brigade who remained in the ruins of Andreevka at that time to surrender. Here they are posting a video of the clearing of the ruins. Then they post photographs with a yellow-black ensign above the miraculously intact walls of a house among the ruins...

    What practical impact does this have on the situation? And this...

    The motorized rifle brigade scattered in the trash in Andreevka itself and the surrounding area is a direct consequence of the desire to prevent the raising of the yellow-blakit ensign over the ruins and the appearance of victorious enemy reports about the capture of these ruins.

    The brigade was naturally unwound in a fire bag, because there was nothing left to hold on to there (cellars among the ruins are not an option; you can’t get out of these basements later). And since the brigade was unwound and there was no one to prevent the raising of the yellow-blaky ensign, they raised him. Our brigade is in the red, their ensign is in the red.

    Go ahead.

    The enemy’s victorious reports, supported by footage from the ground, give image gain to the enemy and cause image damage to us. After our shameful retreats last fall, the loss of any ruins with a name is, in principle, perceived very painfully, plus it gives the enemy some advantages in the information field.

    Thus, the ruins still carry a certain semantic and media load. However, they do not have significant operational-tactical significance. Similar to the situation with Kleshcheevka, control over the adjacent heights is primarily important, and ruins in the lowlands are essentially a trap.

    It is precisely the loss of positions at the heights that is fraught with the collapse of the Kleshcheevka-Kurdyumovka line with the most unpleasant consequences.

    What is our side doing on earth in all this? And our side decides to continue to selflessly fight for the ruins with the name, stupidly disregarding losses.

    The situation is tragically aggravated by the fact that our sad systemic problems, which already regularly lead to excessive and senseless losses, are complemented by combat hysteria, gushing with mindless fever: Urgent! Run! At any cost! That's an order!

    ...The situation is actually very difficult. In recent days, in the Andreevka area, meat assaults have literally been put on a conveyor belt in wild haste and confusion. I don’t know who will hold the heights later.

    Svyatoslav Golikov
    1. +29
      21 September 2023 06: 04
      Hmm.. Now “Sarmat Sanych” will appear and declare that he will “lie everything.” Regarding the article. They didn’t end up in the Gulag for telling the truth, but by denunciating each other.. Something like this, Mr. Staver, who lied Yes
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +5
        21 September 2023 18: 25
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        Hmm.. Now “Sarmat Sanych” will appear and declare that he will “lie everything.” Regarding the article. They didn’t end up in the Gulag for telling the truth, but by denunciating each other.. Something like this, Mr. Staver, who lied Yes

        Not only for denunciations, but most for real crimes.
        1. 0
          23 September 2023 04: 22
          "most for real crimes."

          The strange logic of such statements is striking. I would like to think so, that means it was exactly like that.
        2. +4
          24 September 2023 10: 35
          Quote: Ulan.1812
          Not only for denunciations, but most for real crimes.

          If regarding the command cadres of the RKK in 1937 - 1938. , then many commanders were arrested and even shot precisely because of slander/denunciations of the Trotskyist underground. Trotsky's instructions to this effect were intercepted in his letters to his supporters and published. Based on such a denunciation, my great-uncle, the commander of the 25th Chapaev Division, was arrested and shot. My wife died in the Kazakh camps, only my only daughter survived - my beloved aunt.
          And L.P. Beria began his work as head of the NKVD precisely with the review of the affairs of the RKK commanders, designers, scientists, and engineering personnel. Rokosovsky and many other RKK commanders, precisely thanks to the review commissions established by Beria, were released, rehabilitated and returned to duty. But not everyone is lucky.
          1. -1
            28 September 2023 19: 53
            then many commanders were arrested and even shot precisely because of slander/denunciations of the Trotskyist underground.


            But why don’t you give how many prisoners were released?
            Because in your interpretation this means that most of the prisoners were destroyed. But this has nothing to do with real numbers.
    2. +3
      21 September 2023 09: 41
      Half of what you cited was taken from Ukrainian sites. Whether this is true or not can only be said by those who directly took part in these battles; there is no point in referring to ukrosites, as well as completely trusting them. Besides, everyone has their own truth; trying to look for the most “truthful” one makes no sense.
      1. +3
        21 September 2023 12: 04
        Quote: 27091965i
        Half of what you cited was taken from Ukrainian sites. Whether this is true or not can only be said by those who directly took part in these battles; there is no point in referring to ukrosites, as well as completely trusting them. Besides, everyone has their own truth; trying to look for the most “truthful” one makes no sense.

        I agree with you.
        We sit here and know everything better than those who graduated from academies.
        It is clear that there may be miscalculations and mistakes. But why so indiscriminately about everything and everyone?
        On this site, the majority are related to the Armed Forces and we know the real situation very well. Why else would you cover everything with black paint?
        After all, we have more good than bad!
        Stop panicking. We won’t help our boys with this. And the alarmists are in the firebox...
      2. -4
        21 September 2023 18: 45
        Quote: 27091965i
        Half of what you cited was taken from Ukrainian sites.

        And STAR himself is a big fan of TsIPSO and his misinformation. And that people like him are ready to believe in everything that is against the “bloody regime of Gebni” - then there is no need to go to grandma!
        And they lie convincingly and with “numbers” at the ready. Don't believe me? Here's an example: dill posted cranberries about MBT losses for 2020. Fragment:
        Russia - 12055, of which: destroyed: 8251, damaged: 482, abandoned: 448, captured: 2874
        Tanks (2300, of which destroyed: 1491, damaged: 130, abandoned: 132, captured: 549)
        Ukraine - 4391, of which: destroyed: 2958, damaged: 338, abandoned: 149, captured: 946
        Tanks (646, of which destroyed: 419, damaged: 53, abandoned: 31, captured: 143)
        According to this TsIPSO statistics, losses in tanks are 1:4 in favor of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. At the same time, all the tanks that the Russian Federation had at the beginning of the WZO were destroyed! But the main thing: Ukry captured 549 of our tanks!!!
        Information: According to the CIA - The following figures were given: 12,4 thousand tanks for the Russian Federation and only 2,6 thousand for Ukraine, 30 thousand units of armored vehicles for the Russian Federation and 12 thousand for Ukraine.
        1. 0
          22 September 2023 21: 45
          Familiar number. The data is clearly from Oryx. So, for reference: on Oryx any vehicle from a cruiser to a UAZ “loaf” is considered. They counted 12000 Russian losses during the entire conflict. Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin stated that during the current counter-offensive alone, the Armed Forces of Ukraine lost 540 tanks and 18000 other armored vehicles. So their deceitful TsIPSO is far from our most honest Supreme.
      3. +1
        23 September 2023 07: 47
        Has this channel checked the veracity of the facts? Unclear. The channel is crap, but Ukrainians like it.
    3. +8
      21 September 2023 17: 32
      It is precisely the loss of positions at the heights that is fraught with the collapse of the Kleshcheevka-Kurdyumovka line with the most unpleasant consequences.

      This suppression, embellishment, silence is as old as the hills. The late Prigogine wrote about the possibility of loss of heights and, as a consequence, loss of Kleshcheevka. Nothing changes. Who is giving the orders to fight for Klescheevka?
    4. +6
      21 September 2023 18: 50
      About the information war.

      There are several options for reacting to defeat, and each of them shows how rotten a particular society is. Note, not even the state. The state can be completely rotten, but the society is relatively healthy. Then the process of self-cleaning starts, and the country lives on. But if society itself begins to rot, then things are really bad. Then we need to prepare not for revolution, but for disintegration and complete destruction. So the first reaction is, in principle, the healthiest. The truth, and nothing but the truth, no matter how unpleasant it may be. The second stage is really varnished. Well, the third option is something that has nothing to do with the truth at all. A kind of virtual reality, where there is absolutely no place for real events. And as soon as the reality constructed in the heads of citizens replaces the truth, the collapse of the country has taken place.
    5. -9
      22 September 2023 00: 09
      The author's ears are sticking out...
    6. 0
      22 September 2023 19: 37
      There’s just some kind of nervousness and tension in the commentary, and what’s missing and what’s lost, sorry, this reminds me of the late Prigozhin’s obscene appeal to the leadership of the Ministry of Defense, Prigozhin is gone, the war is on, the front is standing... Where is the military censorship, for such writers with their memories pseudo eyewitnesses, our difference from Ukrainian propaganda is that they are all blowing the same trumpet, and in terms of information warfare, some are in the forest, some are looking for firewood. The general leukmotiv of these memories is that everything is gone, we are running away in all directions. It’s true for everyone its own, only victory will answer the question of who is right and who is wrong, and everything else and this article with an unpleasant odor, is just a bluff and work for some uncle. The cause of the deceased Mr. Goebbels lives and prospers..
    7. +1
      22 September 2023 19: 41
      How is it, who will hold the heights, of course Svyatoslav Golikov.
    8. 0
      24 September 2023 13: 24
      Yes, the situation in Kleshcheevka is unhealthy. There, regiment 1442 from Biysk withdrew due to heavy losses. Regiment commander Ibragimov put the battalion commander in the basement
  2. +5
    21 September 2023 05: 56
    And those who tried to “open the eyes” of Stalin quickly replenished the number of Gulag inmates.

    In his memoirs, Mashal Golovanov mentions the moment when, in his presence, Stalin called Pavlov, and he, having finished the conversation, complained that again someone told Stalin that the Germans were about to attack, and this was all nonsense.
    1. +38
      21 September 2023 06: 42
      Quote: Dart2027
      In his memoirs, Mashal Golovanov mentions the moment when, in his presence, Stalin called Pavlov, and he, having finished the conversation, complained that again someone told Stalin that the Germans were about to attack, and this was all nonsense.

      We can also remember how tank biathlons and military demonstration parades strengthened the power of the RF Armed Forces... Someone said that this is exactly what is necessary, like air... And someone agreed...
      1. +12
        21 September 2023 10: 34
        Quote: ROSS 42
        We can also remember how tank biathlons and military demonstration parades strengthened the power of the RF Armed Forces... Someone said that this is exactly what is necessary, like air... And someone agreed...

        So it is true.

        Shoigu was told to turn the army of the First Chechen Army into the Second Army of the World, without changing anything about it. He did everything right: he bought journalists who draw these ratings.
        1. 0
          21 September 2023 18: 56
          So it is true.

          Truth is a category of God, which, by definition, is unattainable by man. As for understanding truth, the main thing for him is that we never fall into the illusion that we know the truth. No, we don’t know and will never know. We will know the truth. One of. Because there are many truths. But: none of these truths are true. Although some of them, or those that are hammered into the heads of people up there, may be closer to the truth than some others. Closer, but not being it. And if we can calculate and compile for ourselves the truth that is closest to the truth, and then begin to live in accordance with it, then we will make fewer mistakes than others.
        2. +1
          24 September 2023 06: 10
          Shoigu was appointed to the Finnish streams. Death-life did not exist in 2005-10.
          Put things in order, Kudrin is great for centuries.
          He imprisoned 26 generals and saved the country from corruption. And tens of billions went offshore for sure.
          This, according to the law, is the basis of Shoigu’s activities. Not prepared for the tramv, at any cost. Only money.
          Life has changed the focus on attracting investments and developing “advanced service users”
      2. -6
        21 September 2023 19: 50
        Quote: ROSS 42
        We can also remember how tank biathlons and military demonstration parades

        AND? Our tankers fight quite effectively.
        1. +2
          22 September 2023 06: 52
          Quote: Dart2027
          Quote: ROSS 42
          We can also remember how tank biathlons and military demonstration parades

          AND? Our tankers fight quite effectively.

          They can fight effectively, although there are practically no direct tank duels, only during the Kharkov offensive, tanks were driven through the streets without infantry cover, and they were shot at from the windows. Then there was a video near Ugledar, when a column drove into a minefield. Well, everyone probably saw the long columns on the roadsides
    2. +3
      21 September 2023 22: 24
      In his memoirs Mashal Golovanov mentions


      And how to figure out which of them was lying?
      Pavlov then or Golovanov in his memoirs or both at once?
  3. +24
    21 September 2023 06: 26
    France, at war with Germany since September 1, 1939, knew that they would attack, and when they actually attacked, they were defeated in 1940 within a month. And yet they did it wisely and built the Maginot Line and carried out the mobilization, took all the necessary measures... Oh, and they didn’t know the exact date of the offensive and the location of the main attack, and of course it would have been that way... But that’s different, right? The whole article is around, yes around, with kicks towards the USSR
    1. +7
      21 September 2023 07: 00
      In war, everything cannot be foreseen. It’s not for nothing that they say that war will reveal the plan. In this example, France was preparing for the last positional war, and Germany for the maneuver one. The USSR was also not able to take everything into account.
    2. -5
      21 September 2023 18: 55
      Quote: parusnik
      The whole article is all over the place, with kicks towards the USSR

      The purpose of this writing, especially the post of Mr. STAR, is to cause dissatisfaction and doubt about the correctness of the decisions of the leadership of the Army and the country. And it’s clear why: elections are approaching. We need to rock the boat, earn 30 pieces of silver from the...
      1. +5
        21 September 2023 22: 02
        Essentially, is there anything to say? Or are we here on duty and “protecting”? 'Constructive criticism', have you heard of that? Lies at all levels have been known for a long time and from many sources. There is no harm in saying this again.
    3. +2
      21 September 2023 20: 47
      Guderian bypassed the Maginot Line from the flanks, it turned out to be useless.
      1. +2
        21 September 2023 22: 28
        On June 14, 1940, the 1st and 7th Infantry Armies of Army Group C under Colonel General Wilhelm von Leeb attacked and broke through the Maginot Line in a few hours as a result of an infantry advance (even without tank support).
    4. +1
      22 September 2023 21: 57
      Quote: parusnik
      And yet they did it wisely

      The French, by and large, did one thing wrong. Since 1935, Germany's military budget has been many times larger than France's. The Luftwaffe alone was worth more than the entire French armed forces with the Maginot Line to boot.
  4. +12
    21 September 2023 06: 37
    The commander of the direction or the operation as a whole, the General Staff, receives incorrect initial data. So, what is next? And then tragedy

    I think I understand, the purpose of the article is gsh and some are innocent, right?
    1. +16
      21 September 2023 08: 29
      I think I understand, the purpose of the article is gsh and some people are not to blame, right?
      The author himself doesn’t know who is to blame and what to do... He’s trying to drag in Lenin and Stalin... In principle, yes, they are the main culprits in what’s happening in the country, not the General Staff and the country’s leadership, right? laughing
    2. +2
      21 September 2023 10: 24
      Yeah, “Rafik is not the culprit. Not at all? Not the culprit at all.” (c) hi
      1. +2
        21 September 2023 10: 47
        hi
        "Rafik is not the culprit. Not at all? Not the culprit at all." (c)
        Exactly... smile
    3. +9
      21 September 2023 13: 51
      Quote: Vladimir80
      The commander of the direction or the operation as a whole, the General Staff, receives incorrect initial data. So, what is next? And then tragedy

      I think I understand, the purpose of the article is gsh and some are innocent, right?

      Those who created the situation where the truth (inconvenient, unpleasant) is not in demand, even unwanted, are to blame. Those who accepted these rules are to blame, and those who are against this situation, but play by the accepted rules and do nothing to change the situation.
      1. +4
        22 September 2023 09: 38
        It is against fakes and nonsense that the laws on “fakes” and “discrediting” were adopted.... That is, now, there is only one truth - Konashenkov’s. All. Let's go our separate ways.
  5. +13
    21 September 2023 06: 38
    So, as the guide once said there, the museum contains memories of this moment from 22 participants in this carry.

    Couldn't the guide have made a mistake? For example, not participants, but witnesses, and where is the evidence that he said exactly what you published here?
    * * *
    If lies and lies come from the first person of the state, why should others lag behind him? A team of “friends” and devotees.
    By the way, why does the word “devotee” mean both loyalty and betrayal?
    * * *
    The excessive craving for open secrets and ignoring the squandering of state and military secrets by recruiting outright thieves and scoundrels is surprising, to say the least...
    1. +7
      21 September 2023 09: 52
      Couldn't the guide have made a mistake? For example, not participants, but witnesses, and where is the evidence that he said exactly what you published here?

      So the photo was preserved! What more evidence is needed... laughing

  6. +5
    21 September 2023 06: 41
    The initial data is curved, then what will be the decision of the corresponding commander or headquarters?
    As programmers say, "Garbage in, garbage out."
  7. +26
    21 September 2023 07: 32
    Lying to commanders is one side. Another question is whether commanders need the truth. Long ago, from my own experience, I understood the main advantage of a professional - he is not afraid to admit his mistakes. And fix them. But amateurs consider any inconvenient truth an attack on their authority.
    1. 0
      21 September 2023 15: 48
      Quote: U. Cheny
      Lying to commanders is one side. Another question is whether commanders need the truth.

      The commanders need material for a report to the top. And after the boss’s roar “when you... finally take such and such a village,” reports of the capture usually go upstairs. Although in fact, at best, they entered the outskirts.
      And it didn't start now. If you look at documents on the Second World War, they regularly describe situations of “reports on what did not happen.” They are especially frequent in the case of inter-clan interaction - for example, when tankers fly into enemy defenses in a village liberated following an infantry report.
      1. +2
        21 September 2023 18: 41
        The commanders need material for a report to the top.

        Do you know why the one who tells the truth always loses? Because the one who speaks the truth is limited by this truth. He has nothing else to rely on. Anything else will no longer be true. But the one who lies is not limited by anything. But the truth... There is none. There is only the story that seems most true.
        1. +2
          22 September 2023 08: 01
          Dear kreck, what you write is demagogy, Your approach is appropriate in philosophy, politics, morality and other humanities. In military affairs, as, for example, in engineering, strictly following the facts is the only and inviolable sign of truth.
  8. +14
    21 September 2023 07: 35
    Sorry, but what does this have to do with: “Let me remind you that in the picture with Ilyich, five Red Army soldiers are carrying a log...”. Do you think it is necessary (for the “truth of life”) for him to carry it alone?.. (or is this sarcasm? I’m a little confused). Regarding the article in general. I have a deep conviction that if our citizens had had the Internet during the Great Patriotic War, the Germans would have won... Fortunately, this did not happen. Since the Army is the essence of modern society in the Russian Federation, what we have is what we have. In my opinion, the roots of the problem are here: “1. Ideological diversity is recognized in the Russian Federation. 2. No ideology can be established as state or mandatory.” (Article 13 of the Constitution). The lack of ideology, that is, “where are we flying” at the state level, can demotivate anyone... And the number of fools, both in the modern Army and in civil society, is inversely proportional to the level of education (not formal, but real)... Only the lazy don’t understand what’s happening to education now)
    1. +20
      21 September 2023 09: 06
      Quote: glk63
      Do you think it is necessary (for the “truth of life”) for him to carry it alone?.. (or is this sarcasm?)

      Whether Lenin carried the log or not, the main thing is that he took part in the subbotnik.
      And who after Lenin participated in subbotniks?
      1. 0
        21 September 2023 19: 31
        Well, right off the bat, I can only remember Kirov... well, they killed him very quickly (but for what, perhaps, for showing off...)
        1. -1
          22 September 2023 07: 19
          Quote: WapentakeLokki
          Well, right off the bat, I can only remember Kirov... well, they killed him very quickly (but for what, perhaps, for showing off...)

          Or perhaps for the fact that he went after other people's wives
      2. 0
        21 September 2023 21: 49
        Quote: carpenter
        Whether Lenin carried the log or not, the main thing is that he took part in the subbotnik.

        Why can’t the head of state do anything more important?
        1. -1
          26 September 2023 07: 03
          Quote: Dart2027
          Quote: carpenter
          Whether Lenin carried the log or not, the main thing is that he took part in the subbotnik.

          Why can’t the head of state do anything more important?

          Maybe. For example, cuddle bear cubs or breed Siberian Cranes
    2. Aag
      +5
      21 September 2023 14: 45
      "...Only the lazy don't understand what's going on with education now..."
      Hmmm... Not only with education. And, Someone not only does not counteract this, but also contributes to it.
      PS: Sorry, a little off topic, not only is the “bell” not working for me (as I understand, some people have a similar situation), but now there’s another misfortune, - on my “pluses”, individual comments receive the message “You already... "!!!
      Has anyone encountered such... injustice?
      hi
      1. +2
        22 September 2023 08: 13
        "Has anyone experienced such... injustice?"
        like laughing . and the bell has not worked for a very long time
        1. Aag
          0
          24 September 2023 19: 38
          Quote: ZloyKot
          "Has anyone experienced such... injustice?"
          like laughing . and the bell has not worked for a very long time

          That’s stupid, even now they didn’t let you give you a “plus”!... Like, I already did!..)))
    3. -1
      25 September 2023 21: 02
      Lenin was carrying a log...... Hmm, where and from where? And is there a document for permission to take this building material and sneak it somewhere? The photo was probably taken in Moscow, which raises many questions, since the log is graded as industrial wood. Most likely stolen..... If the fact had taken place in the Arkhangelsk region and Papa Carlo had carried it, then some of the questions would have disappeared by themselves. There are countless of these logs lying around and the proletarian Papa Carlo would have carried it away, then no one would have paid any attention turned. Stealing, this is sacred, is in the order of things, but here, a man of intelligent appearance, is dragging an obviously stolen, valuable thing (and where are the police looking?). Knit it!
  9. +23
    21 September 2023 08: 11
    About the log - cool!
    Which the author does not see in his own eye.

    Lying is a consequence of servility. It is servility that has encouraged an army of journalists for more than half a century to talk about “holy righteous people - inmates of the GULAG” ......

    And whitewashes liars, because they are not scoundrels themselves!! No... but... Stalin turned them into scoundrels, because otherwise they could not have preserved their freedom. Eklmn.... . All the troubles come from Stalin...

    Therefore, in unison, we first crap ourselves on Stalin, and then, as honest repentants, we ruined our country in peacetimelaughing
    1. -10
      21 September 2023 08: 38
      Quote: ivan2022
      It is servility that has encouraged an army of journalists for more than half a century to talk about “holy righteous people - inmates of the GULAG” ......
      Rokosovsky and Korolev were in the Gulag.
      And it’s a great happiness for the USSR that the NKVD officers in charge of their affairs turned out to be lazy - they didn’t interrogate them...
      Or they could torture him to the required condition and spank him...
      Of course they NOT
      Quote: ivan2022
      holy righteous people
      - but what would we do without them?

      And Bekauri - who created 100 (!!!!!) years ago drones - slapped...
      And no one knows how our UAVs developed if he lived until the 1960s and received captured information about the work of the Germans in this direction after the war...
      1. +11
        21 September 2023 09: 32
        And Bekauri, who created drones 100(!!!!!) years ago, was spanked...
        And no one knows how our UAVs developed if he lived until the 1960s and received captured information about the work of the Germans in this direction after the war...

        Exactly the same way they developed. As always, without knowing the subject, you are making horror stories about the “totalitarian scoop”
      2. +10
        21 September 2023 16: 45
        Quote: your1970
        Quote: ivan2022
        It is servility that has encouraged an army of journalists for more than half a century to talk about “holy righteous people - inmates of the GULAG” ......
        Rokosovsky and Korolev were in the Gulag.
        And it’s a great happiness for the USSR that the NKVD officers in charge of their affairs turned out to be lazy - they didn’t interrogate them...
        Or they could torture him to the required condition and spank him...
        Of course they NOT
        Quote: ivan2022
        holy righteous people
        - but what would we do without them?

        And Bekauri - who created [b]100(!!!!!) years [...

        Yeah... And the whole stupid world couldn’t understand Bekauri’s ideas.. Where are the NKVD people... And Polzunov created the first steam engine..... And the unknown master Lefty was put in a madhouse and this is also from the NKVD people laughing

        By the way: about Korolev, why he was imprisoned and against whom he wrote and what damage he caused in monetary terms - you simply do not know. That’s why you are so naive and enthusiastic.... They took you by the gills and for no reason at all - - almost killed you..... but didn’t kill you.. There’s no point in doing it.

        Korolev received what he deserved, just like Polikarpov, and therefore it was after this that he worked for the good and spared no effort....

        Or maybe our liberal-patriotic media simply informed you poorly?

        Don’t you think it’s strange if everyone... suddenly begins to consider himself a judge in matters of public policy, and even 80 years ago?
      3. 0
        21 September 2023 18: 16
        Quote: your1970
        Quote: ivan2022
        It is servility that has encouraged an army of journalists for more than half a century to talk about “holy righteous people - inmates of the GULAG” ......
        Rokosovsky and Korolev were in the Gulag.
        And it’s a great happiness for the USSR that the NKVD officers in charge of their affairs turned out to be lazy - they didn’t interrogate them...
        Or they could torture him to the required condition and spank him...
        Of course they NOT
        Quote: ivan2022
        holy righteous people
        - but what would we do without them?

        And Bekauri - who created 100 (!!!!!) years ago drones - slapped...
        And no one knows how our UAVs developed if he lived until the 1960s and received captured information about the work of the Germans in this direction after the war...

        And Tupolev's "Swift"? Ukrainians still use it now.
      4. -1
        21 September 2023 19: 18
        Rokosovsky and Korolev were in the Gulag.
        And it’s a great happiness for the USSR that the NKVD officers in charge of their affairs turned out to be lazy - they didn’t interrogate them...

        Communism failed as a system and ideology, because it promotes the equality of all before all. But people are not equal, never have been and never will be. You cannot equate an academician and an alcoholic. A mother who raised five children well and correctly and a whore who gave birth to children only because abortions are prohibited and who does not even know from which of her hundreds of partners her children.
        Equality should be in one thing - in access to education and equal access to opportunities for development and growth, as well as in an honest assessment of a person’s skills and qualities.
        A Soviet person could not live better than his neighbor or be more talented than him. And if you dared, then the vile drunkard could complain about your wealth, created on his drunken hump. During the period from 1930-1939, more than 4 denunciations were written, and Stalin and the USSR are also to blame for this? Or people, with their envy, careerism and selfishness?
        1. +2
          22 September 2023 00: 33
          crack
          Was there communism in the USSR? I don't remember. Yes, we lived well. And in those days there were sobering-up stations for complaining drunks.
          Yes, and count the number of whores then and now. When was there more? And as a percentage of the population?
        2. +4
          22 September 2023 08: 54
          You cannot equate an academician and an alcoholic. A mother who raised five children well and correctly and a whore who gave birth to children only because abortion is prohibited and who does not even know which of the hundreds of partners her children are from.

          negative
          A Soviet person could not live better than his neighbor or be more talented than him.

          belay
          Yeah.
      5. 0
        22 September 2023 00: 29
        your1970
        And there was Kurchevsky, who was shot in 1937. And if his dynamo-rocket guns had “developed”, right now the infantrymen would have been throwing bricks, oh, excuse me, shooting megaton shells.
        There were drones back then. They suffered a complete fiasco back in the Finnish war
        1. 0
          22 September 2023 07: 26
          Quote: futurohunter
          your1970
          And there was Kurchevsky, who was shot in 1937. And if his dynamo-rocket guns had “developed”, right now the infantrymen would have been throwing bricks, oh, excuse me, shooting megaton shells.
          There were drones back then. They suffered a complete fiasco back in the Finnish war

          Given the level of that technology, it’s not surprising. But the V-1 showed itself quite well, and the German gliding bombs that sank the Roma LC
    2. Aag
      0
      21 September 2023 14: 56
      Quote: ivan2022
      About the log - cool!
      Which the author does not see in his own eye.

      Lying is a consequence of servility. It is servility that has encouraged an army of journalists for more than half a century to talk about “holy righteous people - inmates of the GULAG” ......

      And whitewashes liars, because they are not scoundrels themselves!! No... but... Stalin turned them into scoundrels, because otherwise they could not have preserved their freedom. Eklmn.... . All the troubles come from Stalin...

      Therefore, in unison, we first crap ourselves on Stalin, and then, as honest repentants, we ruined our country in peacetimelaughing

      Greetings! Let me make a reservation right away: my opinion is personal, evaluative: I evaluate your comments very differently.
      Only for the specific, last thing (fortunately, it’s divided into paragraphs), if divided, I would divide it as follows:
      1) "-";
      2) "+";
      3) "+";
      4) "? "!!!!
      hi
      1. +4
        21 September 2023 16: 58
        Even more briefly, everything can be reduced to one phrase: “the people suffer from their own sins, but the author convinces us that it is from the sins of the NKVD.” And so everyone is downright saints.... . And where did such terrible NKVD officers come from among the holy people?
  10. +3
    21 September 2023 08: 24
    The general from the press says one thing, and the captain from the company at the LBS says something completely different.

    “Vanka the company commander” has his own trench truth, it contains all the hardships of war, unknown to the general who has not gone through the path of a company commander in battle.
  11. +13
    21 September 2023 08: 26
    Probably many remember the famous painting from the USSR “V. I. Lenin at the All-Russian subbotnik in the Kremlin on May 1, 1920” from 1927


    And this is not a staged photo: according to eyewitnesses, Ilyich really carried logs and branches along with all the Red Army soldiers, workers of the Economic Council, who also went to the subbotnik. Moreover, it should be taken into account that the leader at that time was already 50 years old and less than two years before that, he had suffered a serious injury. After working for several hours, Lenin left the subbotnik for a good reason - his presence was necessary at the ceremony of laying the monument to Karl Marx. Well, the cleanup continued until the evening. As for Lenin’s participation in the cleanup, over time this fact began to gradually transform towards the significance of the leader’s participation. In stories, plays and artistic paintings, Lenin began to turn into a kind of Terminator, single-handedly dragging almost all the logs that would be enough for a medium-sized oak grove. They began to depict him in the foreground of “log” paintings, and even independently dragging branches and tree trunks. There were images of Ilyich with a shovel, Ilyich with a wheelbarrow - in general, myth-making was working at full capacity. It is not surprising that later all this resulted in the legend of the “inflatable log”.
    1. +4
      21 September 2023 09: 09
      Quote: kor1vet1974
      There were images of Ilyich with a shovel, Ilyich with a wheelbarrow - in general, myth-making was working at full capacity.

      And now that was a lie.
      1. +4
        21 September 2023 10: 50
        And now that was a lie.
        So that's the point
  12. +8
    21 September 2023 08: 42
    Lies are not incorrect reports to someone up there, lies are a solid part of our immediate ideology, which, mind you, we don’t have either. Well, we remember that strength lies in truth. Whoever has the truth is stronger. That's how we live...
    1. +3
      21 September 2023 19: 31
      Lies are not incorrect reports to someone up there, lies are a solid part of our immediate ideology, which, mind you, we don’t have either. Well, we remember that strength lies in truth. Whoever has the truth is stronger.

      There are always two ideologies. One, for the elite, and it is the same for all states and serious organizations: to become the strongest, to influence everyone else, to subdue everyone else. And the second is decorative, for ordinary people, it can be Christianity, democracy, or anything else. Information about how the world works is not so difficult to find. Most of the time it's in the public domain. Most people just don't need it. Some John or Ivan prefers to work eight hours at work, and then hear on TV what is good and what is bad. If you try to explain to him from this box how everything really works, then in the second minute he will get bored, and he will switch to another channel. It is easier for him to hear that they bombed Syria, Iraq, Yugoslavia in order to bring democracy there. So they stuffed warheads with democracy and started throwing them on the heads of the population living there, and this brought human rights and a bunch of other joys there.
      Most of the people want to live in a fairy tale and it is pointless to pull them out of this illusion. Why do people go to see magicians in droves? After all, everyone understands that this is not magic, but a deception. The reason is simple: people want to believe in a miracle, and they are ready to allow themselves to be deceived by anyone who helps them in this.
    2. +1
      22 September 2023 13: 10
      Do you think it was in vain to pass laws on fakes and insults to the RF Armed Forces? Is anyone really interested in the truth about the state of affairs at the front? All these laws were adopted for only one purpose: “To criminally and administratively punish those who dare to expose lies.”
  13. +16
    21 September 2023 09: 14
    But Prigozhin also said: Stop lying!
    But for some reason everyone thought that it was Prigozhin who was lying.
    1. -6
      22 September 2023 00: 38
      Million
      I don’t know that Prigozhin “didn’t lie,” but how many Russian pilots were killed by his subordinates? And yes, why didn’t they take advantage of this whole mess “from there”? "Fixed match"?
  14. BAI
    +9
    21 September 2023 09: 24
    Even Solovyov has already stated that false reports are going to the top and demanded 10 years for a false report.

    The beginning of the Northern Military District was built on false premises, which led to the flight from Kiev.
    What happened here: they knew, but they didn’t owe it - they owed it what they wanted to hear; did not know; knew, but did not listen to the report - in any case, there is no good option
  15. +10
    21 September 2023 09: 46
    What is the point of this article if everything is told in a vague way, in general phrases, without mentioning specific facts and names?
    None, IMHO. There were plenty of such articles before, even before the SVO. What's the point? none.
    Alas, the country is already accustomed to lies with impunity. Whatever you remember - the program "Moon by 2015, Strategy 2020, Skolkovo, Import substitution, 2000 Armat, Checkmate, who shot down aircraft and helicopters near Bryansk", and even a new recent video with a girl doctor at plastic surgeons - it’s all, dear "not true"

    Everyone is already used to it. That nothing can be done anyway. You can't even give your full name.
    And those who called too much -... well, everyone remembers what happened to them...

    So, alas, IMHO, the country cannot do otherwise. These are the rules of the game...
    1. 0
      22 September 2023 00: 41
      Well, the author, with vegetable gardens, vegetable gardens, pardon me, hints at the same thing that the “blocked” people are yelling about. As I read, the question arose: for what purpose did he write all this? For what? Or do those “blocked by Roskomnadzor” know this?
  16. +10
    21 September 2023 10: 15
    That's exactly what the author says, lying is not good.
    Let me remind you of the 1941 trial regarding the actions of the commander of the Western Special Military District, General Pavlov. Until now, the debate on this issue is not a joke. Yes, the commander went through the stages of growth of a military leader in a rather original way. But for the army of that time such generals were a dime a dozen.

    I started straight away with the position... commander of a cavalry regiment in Turkestan!
    Remember the movie "Officers"? It shows the war with the Basmachi quite truthfully. If we call what the Red Army did there, then I would call it an anti-partisan operation. Next, Pavlov took a new turn in his career - brigade commander of a mechanized brigade. This was when there was not even a concept for using such compounds.



    Where did such facts from his biography as participation in WWII and the civil war go?
    This is what the same wiki writes.


    He enlisted in the Russian Imperial Army as a volunteer immediately after the outbreak of the First World War. Since 1914 - at the front, he served and fought as part of the Serpukhov 120th Infantry Regiment, Alexandria 5th Hussar Regiment, 20th Infantry Regiment, 202nd Reserve Regiment. Promoted to senior non-commissioned officer. In June 1916, he was wounded and taken prisoner by the Germans in the Battle of Kovel on the Stokhod River. While in captivity he worked in the mines in Germany. Released after the end of the war in January 1919. After returning from captivity, he worked at home with his father, and then for 5,5 months he worked in the subdepartment of social security and labor protection at the Kologriv district labor department, from where due to professional mobilization he was taken into the Red Army.


    From August 25, 1919 - in the Red Army. Active participant in the Civil War. Since August 1919 - a soldier of the 56th food battalion, then a food detachment clerk. At the end of 1919 he was sent to study and in 1920 he graduated from command courses in Kostroma. From April 1920 - platoon and cavalry division commander in the 8th Cossack Cavalry Division. Since October 1920 - inspector for assignment in the inspection of the cavalry of the 13th Army, from December 1920 - in the inspection of the cavalry of the Southern Front. He fought on the Southwestern and Southern fronts. Joined the CPSU(b) in 1919.

    Graduated from the 24th Omsk Infantry School named after the Comintern (1922) From April 1922 he commanded a cavalry regiment of the 10th Cavalry Division (the regiment was stationed in Semipalatinsk). From June 1922 - assistant commander of the 56th cavalry regiment The 6th Altai Separate Cavalry Brigade, at its head, led active combat operations against the anti-Soviet armed detachment of A. A. Salnikov and A. P. Kaigorodov in the Barnaul district.

    At the beginning of 1923, as part of the brigade, he was transferred to the Turkestan Front. From February 1923 as head of a fighter squad fought against the Basmachi detachment of Kurbashi Turdybai in the Khojent region, and from August 1923 in Eastern Bukhara he commanded the 77th cavalry regiment in battles against the detachments of Ibrahim-bek, Ala-Nazar, Barot, Hodman, Hadji-Ali. From June 1924 - assistant commander for the rifle unit of the 48th Cavalry Regiment, from October of the same year - in the same position in the 47th Cavalry Regiment.



    Graduated from the Military Academy of the Red Army named after M. V. Frunze (studied from October 1925 to June 1928). Since 1928 - commander and commissar of the 75th Cavalry Regiment 5th separate Kuban cavalry brigade. The brigade was stationed at Dauria station, commanded by K.K. Rokossovsky in Transbaikalia. At the head of the regiment, he again distinguished himself in the conflict on the Chinese Eastern Railway, participating in a deep outflanking of a group of Chinese troops and in the defeat of the numerically superior Manchu-Zhalaynor enemy group in November 1929.

    In March 1930, he was recalled to Moscow and sent to study. Graduated from academic courses for technical improvement of command personnel at the Military Technical Academy (1931). From March 1931 - commander of the 6th mechanized regiment (Gomel), from February 1934 - commander and commissar of the 4th mechanized brigade (Bobruisk) in the Belarusian Military District. The brigade under his command became one of the best mechanized units in the Red Army and performed well at the Great Kyiv Maneuvers of 1935. For excellent combat training in 1936, brigade commander D. G. Pavlov was awarded the Order of Lenin.

    During the Spanish Civil War, from October 1936 to June 1937, he fought on the side of the Republican government among Soviet volunteers, and was the commander of a tank brigade under the pseudonym "Pablo". In a number of operations he commanded large combined tank groupings of troops. He especially distinguished himself in repelling a front breakthrough near the city of Majadahonda (January 1937), in the Harama operation (February 1937), and in the Guadalajara operation (March 1937). For the Battle of Jarama he was awarded the Spanish Military Order[what?] by the Republican government in July 1937.


    Well, the author, this doesn’t fit with yours,” he began immediately from the position... commander of a cavalry regiment.
    And we don’t need to talk about Stalin’s time, much less draw analogies with modernity.
    There was real patriotism then, not the current jingoism. And the whole country strained its sinews in preparation for war, which is why they withstood the whole of Europe.
    1. +11
      21 September 2023 13: 08
      About lies. Let’s remember how it all began. And it began with the fact that Russia did not recognize the LDPR until the start of the Northern Military District in 2023, and what statements were there? We are for the territorial integrity of Ukraine. What was spelled out in the Minsk agreements? Give, federal Ukraine within its borders, the LDPR has a special status within these borders. And with the beginning of the Northern Military District? You give complete demilitarization and denazification of the whole of Ukraine, and now it turns out that they agree to negotiate, at least to demilitarize and denazify a piece? theirs."
    2. +4
      21 September 2023 14: 08
      In June 1916, he was wounded and taken prisoner by the Germans in the Battle of Kovel on the Stokhod River. While in captivity he worked in the mines in Germany.

      Interesting fact. I didn't know, to be honest. Maybe his indictment isn’t all that bogus? wink
      1. +2
        21 September 2023 18: 02
        Quote: Arzt
        In June 1916, he was wounded and taken prisoner by the Germans in the Battle of Kovel on the Stokhod River. While in captivity he worked in the mines in Germany.

        Interesting fact. I didn't know, to be honest. Maybe his indictment isn’t all that bogus? wink

        There's no linden there at all. There is no word that he is anyone's spy.
  17. +12
    21 September 2023 10: 19
    But before this article, the Author wrote an article that we will not surrender Kherson and what line does this take - lies or disinformation? If misinformation, then who? Don't kick Comrade now. Stalin and the USSR means living a day in vain.
    1. +1
      21 September 2023 10: 31
      This comes under the article - provision of sexual services in a natural and perverted form.
    2. 0
      22 September 2023 13: 15
      He is now trying to rehabilitate himself at least a little. But at the same time he writes articles of the “Captain Obviousness” level. Wait for the next article: “When corruption in the implementation of state defense orders during combat operations becomes a crime.”
  18. +13
    21 September 2023 10: 30
    Who, who should not talk about lies, is the anti-adviser Staver, his entire article is a lie, from beginning to end.
    Why doesn’t Staver already rip off the veil of lies from some IDF operation, for example?
    1. +3
      21 September 2023 18: 01
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      Who, who should not talk about lies, is the anti-adviser Staver, his entire article is a lie, from beginning to end.
      Why doesn’t Staver already rip off the veil of lies from some IDF operation, for example?

      That's it for sure. Blaming others Staver himself lied in the article.
      As they say to the doctor, he healed himself. Well, or start with yourself.
  19. +6
    21 September 2023 11: 23
    I think the staver should develop his thoughts and look for the roots of the problem. For example, why are the people responsible for preparing the armed forces for combat operations, those responsible for preparing for the SVO, directing the course of the SVO still in place, although judging by the reports of the military leadership over the past at least 10 years, the level of combat capability of the RF Armed Forces, equipment modern types of weapons, equipment, etc. are higher than ever, prizes in tank biathlons, air darts and other dungeons are evidence of this, the grinding of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is proceeding at a brisk pace, etc. Is the Supreme Commander-in-Chief really satisfied with Staver’s dream? Or are they still reporting incorrectly to him after a year and a half? If so, then he silently eats this bullshit? Some kind of understatement, you know? request
  20. +8
    21 September 2023 11: 51
    The one who is afraid of his own work is lying.
    The authorities take lies as the basis for building an ideology.
    The President and the Secretary of Defense hate the truth because it interferes with their careers.
    1. +1
      21 September 2023 13: 26
      A president, if he is a patriot, cannot hate the truth, because all planning and decision-making are based on it, and this is precisely the basis of his career as a manager. Well, we're talking about feedback. But how the goals and objectives set by the head of state are fulfilled is a big question. And the executors are more likely to lie in case of incomplete fulfillment of instructions. What is needed here is a secret service of the president, incorruptible and devoted to their country. This is if we consider the situation globally.
      1. Alf
        +5
        21 September 2023 18: 23
        Quote: Kurganets-45
        What is needed here is a secret service of the president, incorruptible and devoted to their country.

        So what prevented the president from creating it for 23 years? Something like the People's Commissariat of State Control under Stalin?
    2. +18
      21 September 2023 13: 36
      Dear forum users. Since the army is a reflection of our society, let’s move on to civilian life. Mirror reflection. On paper everything is fine. Compliance with instructions, health and safety rules, implementation of the plan, etc. The employer is simply a messiah. In reality, there is a lack of staff, the assignment of additional functions to the existing ones, violation of the same instructions (because without violating, the task cannot be completed). Those who try to increase production not on paper, but in reality, are fired, replaced by defective ones who wave papers. And when another accident occurs that cannot be silenced, scapegoats are quickly found. Regulatory authorities? Prosecutor's office, court, state labor inspectorate, etc. ... Wait, they're all tied up. You have to go through seven circles of hell for them to go about their business. And the army is no different. Unfortunately.
      1. +9
        21 September 2023 14: 18
        Golden words, however. Taking off my hat. Everything is just like that. hi
        1. +5
          21 September 2023 15: 44
          angry The most interesting thing is that people don’t knock, but try to bring it to management. And the leadership (which has risen from rags to riches) openly spits, holding on to its purse. And he brazenly lies upstairs.
      2. +2
        21 September 2023 14: 23
        Prosecutor's office, court, state labor inspectorate, etc. ... Wait, they're all tied up.
        “The police! I know them better than you. I was a street child, I know them. I hate them, I hate them!” (c) smile
        1. +1
          21 September 2023 14: 25
          They still at least somehow work there or try to do at least something, though not always successfully.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. +5
    21 September 2023 15: 42
    And those who tried to “open the eyes” of Stalin quickly replenished the number of Gulag inmates.

    It smelled like Korotich’s “Spark.”
    It would be nice for the author to re-read the Materials of the meeting of the senior leadership of the Red Army on December 23-31, 1940 - there the burning truth of life was dumped on the top leadership over and over again.
    Fedorenko:
    ...they introduced a system in academies to train people according to training standards, and not according to actual ones, and the one who graduates from the academy joins the troops and knows the organization of the military branches worse than a soldier. You need to teach in academies on actual staff.

    When checking, they say: "Explain the tank," and the head of the school offers: "Check the crawl and hand-to-hand combat, he will do everything for you."

    Currently, even in 1941, it is planned to release 6 shells per year for one tank, and eight tasks must be completed.

    Novikov:
    We now have a situation where there are 4 pilots per UTI-35 aircraft. UTI-4 flies for only 45 minutes, after which it requires recharging. Thus, at maximum stress during the day, this aircraft can take out or test the training of no more than 10 people.

    As a rule, every year, Comrade People's Commissar, at the height of flights in the summer, starting in July, and sometimes in June, the supply of gasoline stops, units go on starvation rations, and because of this, flights in the best months are curtailed for flights (June, July, August).

    Well, comrade Khatskilevich with his famous description of the main BTV artillery tractor:
    Our artillery, armed with these tractors, has little mobility and lags behind wheeled vehicles and tank formations. (From the Presidium: 30 km per hour). M. G. Khatskilevich: Theoretically this is true, but in practice it does not provide such speed..

    We counted during our exercises (we even threw out 2500 vehicles from the combat force, taking the most necessary things for life and battle), and then we have 6800 vehicles going into the breakthrough, almost 7000. How can you squeeze in such a mass of vehicles on such a narrow front?

    And there were no organizational conclusions regarding the speakers.

    Before this, there was a meeting on the results of the SFV, where Stalin had to “moderate the forum”, pulling apart the generals who were constantly engaged in a verbal clinch.

    And if you read the internal correspondence of the same GABTU before the war, then there is only one conclusion from what you read - how it was possible to fight with all this. There, in plain language, there were reports about the ineffectiveness of the divisions entrusted to the corps commanders.
    1. +1
      22 September 2023 08: 35
      Quote: Alexey RA
      there, the scorching truth of life was dumped on top management over and over again.

      ))) Well, that is, in the 30s, despite all the efforts of the people’s friends, the truth of life in one form or another still existed. Accordingly, when getting up from your knees, they took as a model not the 30s (also news to me), but the times of advanced insanity. When, with the help of varnish and mothballs with the truth of life, the issue was generally already resolved.

      This is understandable. Any person considers the “norm” of the times of his youth. That is, in this case, the order of the 70s.
      1. +1
        22 September 2023 10: 28
        Quote: Negro
        Well, that is, in the 30s, despite all the efforts of the friends of the people, the truth of life in one form or another still existed.

        Then - yes. The same Rychagov was sentenced to VMSZ not because he cut the truth, but because he hid it (on his own line, and simply forgot about the other two). You can also recall the removal from the post of People's Commissar of Defense based on the results of the won war, and even with the drawing up of the ever-memorable Transfer Certificate, which looks almost like the accusatory part of the verdict. And the same Voroshilov’s report to Stalin following the results of Khalkhin Gol:
        Tov. Stalin
        I am sending the report just received to Comrade Zhukov and Kalugin. As expected, there were no divisions in the encirclement, the enemy either managed to withdraw the main forces, or rather, there were no large forces in this area for a long time, and a specially trained garrison was sitting, which is now completely destroyed.
        1. +1
          22 September 2023 10: 38
          Well, actually, even to lovers of military history, who are somewhat more intellectually honest than Messrs. Samsonov, the order that existed under Stalin is well known.

          Another thing is that now it’s not him, but something else.
  23. +6
    21 September 2023 16: 54
    I'll say even more. This whole SVO and its protracted and ambiguous course is precisely because of lies to the leadership. Well, the vertical generally works as it should. Everything is fine everywhere, it’s impossible to upset the management with reality!
    https://youtu.be/MH6i4ZIrmSI?si=35KiGssMpsVRHP7W
    From the 7th minute it is very believable about VVP, his YES team and the Rasputins around him.
    PS: by the way, S. Naryshkin’s panic attack also says a lot. He knew perfectly well how much noodles he was telling his boss, and what all this would lead to in the end.
    1. +11
      21 September 2023 18: 10
      What kind of people are in our leadership, the West has been leading them by the nose for decades, or their subordinates are hanging noodles on their ears
  24. 0
    21 September 2023 16: 57
    I don't trust anyone
    Neither to you
    Neither to him
    Not to myself
    1. -1
      21 September 2023 19: 36
      Well, I just got a whiff of nostalgia from 17 moments... yeah that’s the same thing... you can’t trust anyone_you can trust me... just who he is is the one you CAN TRUST???
  25. +5
    21 September 2023 17: 25
    The trouble in our life is tyrants, both in civilian life and in the army, and tyrants in the army are a misfortune squared. In civilian life, you send him and you are free, although without work, but it’s easier. It won't work in the army.
    1. -1
      21 September 2023 19: 40
      Well, it depends where... if you come across an overly greyhound commander who strives (at the expense of your lives) to add crosses to his chest, then... you always have the opportunity to organize one for him (but a large and wooden one)... but in general the Northern Military District line is all different and hazing_godkovshchina_compatriotism (and this is not a second of those ulcers that are eating away at our conscript units) doesn’t work there... well, that’s completely off topic...
  26. +9
    21 September 2023 17: 50
    Stop lying, no one forced Pavlov to lie to Stalin.
    And he was not convicted for this, read the verdict. Loss of control, etc.
    The desire to delay the war and data on the preparation of an attack are attempts to compare the salty with the square.
    You, dear Mr. Staver, blurt out that Stalin “believed Hitler.”
    Repeat Khrushchev's gossip.
  27. +9
    21 September 2023 17: 50
    "It's about... lies"
    And they themselves started with lies! The theme of Pavlov and the beginning of the Second World War, historians, journalists, and military experts have sorted it out piece by piece! The archives were opened. On June 18, Stalin gave the command to deploy troops into battle formations. Why didn't they expand it?
    In general, it is now fashionable to talk about today’s problems, but you must “kick” Lenin and Stalin. 100 years have passed! But they are to blame for today's problems. You are shameless Staver! No honor, no conscience!
    ""V.I. Lenin at the All-Russian subbotnik in the Kremlin on May 1, 1920""
    It’s about lies that we must remember May 1, 1920. And what, over the last 20 years they have never lied to us?
    1. Alf
      +3
      21 September 2023 18: 26
      Quote: steel maker
      And what, over the last 20 years they have never lied to us?

      It's easier to say when they told the truth....
  28. +1
    21 September 2023 17: 52
    Is making a decision about the start of the Northern Defense Forces and the directions of attack also the result of lies and incompetence?
    And the number of our prisoners in the first half of the Northern Military District (10 times more than deputy10
    1. +4
      21 September 2023 20: 20
      Here the question is complex and is divided into at least two. 1. The leadership was misled by lower structures - the SVR, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the GRU, Medvedchuk. Why did all the heads of these structures remain in their places? 2. Nobody really deceived the top management. I don’t dare continue here.
  29. +10
    21 September 2023 18: 05
    Why did you write this nonsense about Stalin? Yes, I tried to delay the start of the war as long as possible, but it was clear that the enemy was stronger, more numerous, and initially it was planned to exhaust the enemy by retreating, and it was precisely the opening of the front by Pavlov that brought down the entire plan. And Stalin didn’t believe anyone there, twisted in his fantasies? Well, if some agent tells you the dates of the attack several times, but they do not come true, how much confidence will you have in his reports? Or do we need to put troops on combat readiness every time? And Stalin received such warnings in batches with different dates that did not come true. Moreover, three days before June 22, the troops received an order of full readiness, which some commanders ignored, some out of intent, some out of sloppiness. In particular, Pavlov, having received this order, did not pass it on further... It’s easy to argue after the fact what was right and what was wrong, look at our talking heads on TV (political analysts), they also give out forecasts in batches, and 99.9% none of them come true, and if they accidentally guess, they will run around with what they guessed, completely forgetting about hundreds of previous unfulfilled predictions.
  30. +5
    21 September 2023 18: 50
    I wonder if someone in the Ministry of Defense will be punished for lying about the presence of more than 70% of new equipment in the troops for 2022 and where did it go with the start of the Northern Military District???
    1. -1
      21 September 2023 19: 46
      probably like with the above-mentioned Pavlov year in 2122 (well, I just remembered Klitschko with his congratulations on the New Year 2122), perhaps on the Military Review website, they will discuss the events of the North Military District and draw “correct_well or not so” conclusions based on the declassified archives of the Ministry of Defense (from God forbid) the former Russian Federation (and whoever thinks so, there will be a federation or maybe an Empire (or a republic or the United States of Russia)... who knows
    2. 0
      22 September 2023 10: 37
      Quote: assault
      I wonder if someone in the Ministry of Defense will be punished for lying about the presence of more than 70% of new equipment in the troops for 2022 and where did it go with the start of the Northern Military District???

      And it depends on what the Ministry of Defense understood by new technology. Pomnitsa, Mi-24s from the capital received by the helicopter brigade of the Central Military District were also added to the new vehicles. smile
      Plus, the Moscow Region has a huge amount of automotive equipment, which, simply due to the volume of purchases, raises the statistics of new equipment “on average for a hospital.” And if you get to the bottom of mice portable walkie-talkies, and count each one in statistics as one unit, on a par with satellite communication stations and VFD transmitters - then wow, what numbers of “new technology” can be counted. smile
  31. +5
    21 September 2023 19: 03
    Did the author himself understand that with his “reasonings” he wanted to say something?
  32. +1
    21 September 2023 20: 11
    General considerations. It is bad to lie and it is good to tell even the bitter truth. I expected more and specifics from this article. Or maybe I shouldn’t have written this article at all. Although.... Maybe one of the first signs?
  33. +3
    21 September 2023 20: 32
    Lying is bad, both to commanders and to readers. many readers studied the history of the beginning of the Second World War not only from Zhukov, but from other sources; the groundless fantasies of ZHUKOV and KHRUSHCHEV about Stalin’s guilt do not bear any truth. Zhukov really admitted his guilt for 1941, when he was shown orders signed by him, which he allegedly did not know about. It was not for nothing that Stalin created the commission of Colonel General Pokrovsky; after the war, he also wanted to know the truth. We will also learn the truth about SVO, but not right away. Stalin issued orders for the preparation of troops, but only the BERIA LP border guards and sailors fully implemented them.
    1. 0
      22 September 2023 08: 42
      "We will also find out the truth about SVO"
      We, living now, will not know, we will not live to see it. and we, as a society as a whole, may find out laughing . "half, then..."
  34. +1
    21 September 2023 20: 36
    I’m reading the article for the first time, I give a + to the commentator, in response there is a sign that I have already appreciated this comment, miracles.
  35. +2
    21 September 2023 22: 29
    Sometimes lying actually leads to crime. And the higher the liar’s position, the more serious the consequences of lying.

    That's right. It’s not for nothing that the article starts with a photo of Shoigu and Gerasimov. But at the beginning of the article I would insert this photo of the liars.
  36. -4
    21 September 2023 22: 38
    There was an interesting discussion here.

    Brief summary of comments:
    The author is a liar or works for TsIPSO because he wrote something disrespectful about Stalin.
    1. -4
      22 September 2023 04: 28
      By itself. Red-brown cannibals will not tolerate their idols being “throwing mud” at them in their sandbox. wink
    2. +1
      22 September 2023 15: 24
      The author can write sincerely, he is simply not interested in the history of his country, or is interested one-sidedly, only in one officially recognized version of the beginning of the war, as presented by Zhukov - Khrushchev.
  37. +3
    22 September 2023 05: 47
    In our country, unfortunately, far from the most talented personnel (with rare exceptions) made it to high positions in the 90s, and now, at the end of their service, they hold on to these leather stools with their teeth. And in order to stay the course, the main thing is not to irritate your superiors with bad reports....
  38. +1
    22 September 2023 17: 13
    The article could have been 10 times shorter. The topic has not been disclosed.
    Remember the situation at that time. When did Stalin try his best to delay the war? Accordingly, all opinions that did not coincide with his became the opinion of enemies. And we must fight our enemies. And people began to report as Joseph Vissarionovich demanded. This is how they reported to Pavlov, and this is how Pavlov reported. That's what everyone reported.

    Another grub at Stalin? Reported what? What will be the war? So Stalin already knew this. Therefore, they increased the army to 5 million from 1,5 million, for this, in fact, collectivization-industrialization was carried out, for this they churned out tanks, guns, and airplanes. And Pavlov, to be honest, was shot because he was defeated.
    Actually, 2/3 of the reprisals were for lying. And lying in the army is always a crime. So the author of the captain appeared without revealing the topic. What I wanted to say is unclear.
    Centerum censeo Washingtonum delendam esse
  39. 0
    22 September 2023 18: 52
    Yes, as soon as political activists appeared in various positions in the army... it has especially flourished now: all the stands are occupied by former political workers and party representatives, and on TV, under the nickname of military experts, there are already more of them than security guards and press secretaries combined. .. well, if you add to this all sorts of public chambers and councils, then it’s completely sad
  40. +4
    22 September 2023 22: 05
    Lying is terrible. But how can you expect honesty from a lieutenant or even a general, when the president himself said that as long as he is president, there will be no increase in the retirement age. That there will be no changes to the Constitution. That there will be no mobilization.
  41. -1
    22 September 2023 22: 43
    And in the Kremlin military district there are no commanders. Everyone there is a politician. And in uniform. And without. And when does a politician lie? When lips move.
  42. 0
    23 September 2023 02: 17
    Again lies about Stalin. Another vile thing. This site is just a haven for scumbags. Staver, Shpakovsky.
  43. -1
    23 September 2023 07: 41
    You cannot immediately trust official data. This is already a habit. Neither ours nor the Ukrainian ones.
    May yours don’t understand. I wrote an article here about unreliable information) I thought that the person would develop some of my thoughts, or give his own original ones. Instead of this...
    Mr. Staver, do you work in a high-level headquarters? Or are you looking to become an analyst for such a headquarters? What kind of claims are these?! Do you think widely published official data should be accurate? Did this front-line soldier of yours teach you to speak louder about the real situation at the front to enemy agents? So that, God forbid, they don’t miss anything when reporting to the enemy headquarters?
    Not an article, but, excuse me, some kind of nonsense...
  44. 0
    23 September 2023 17: 10
    You need to understand that in war, lies are like death, because... misleads the superior commander and leads to decisions and orders that are disastrous for the troops. But only a narrow-minded commander makes decisions based on one unverified source. It’s not for nothing that the proverb “Trust in God, but don’t make a mistake yourself.” It is not at all difficult to bring such a dirty trickster into the white light. In addition, the commander himself appoints and approves his subordinates; they are not parachuted to him! Leaders were accustomed to mass lies and duplicity after the first Locust invasion, the seizure of power in Russia in 1917 by foreign armed gangs of terrorist militants. When rootless cosmopolitans began to pose as “Guz” “gevolutionaries”. Although the people immediately mistook them for terrorist bandits, foreign executioners. Just like the lies in the picture with the log, when Blank-Lenin, due to purulent old syphilis, did not have the strength to care about the log. Both the first (1917) and second (1991) invasion of the foreign Locust were accompanied by such a stream of nonsense and rhetoric that even B. Yeltsin wanted to “lie down on the rails,” but, as always, he lied. Well, if you cite the oath promises of modern Promises, then past liars are no match for them. After 19 months of the Northern Military District, the leaders of the 5th column unexpectedly appeared. Roscosmos planted the main pig of the Russian Federation by supplying 130 RD-180 and RD-181M rocket engines to the United States; now hundreds of spy satellites launched with their help effectively guide enemy missiles and UAVs at our most important strategic targets. And the much-hyped D. Rogozin did a disservice to England; with the help of the Soyuz, he delivered 444 spy satellites into orbit. Now these spy satellites “work” effectively and effectively harm the Russian Federation. It is shameful that the Permission to conclude contracts with the enemy - the USA and England, was signed by both the FSB doctor and the Chairman of the Security Council, the Minister of Defense, head. GRU, Chairman of the Government - D.A. Medvedev. I just want to ask: “What country do you really serve?” So, if you raise the question of mass LIES, then turn on the TV and see where it comes from. I recently read some interesting information. What's going on behind the scenes: https://dzen.ru/a/ZCx26jRcrB-Wjv0P?utm_referer=www.google.com What a trick! Read the article to the end. Shocking news from the activist - at the Congress he reveals all the “Achievements”.
  45. +2
    24 September 2023 07: 00
    Of course, everything will be bad for us if they don’t know which village is ours and which is not. Commanders need to go to the front, and not drink cognac and vodka in the rear.
    1. +1
      24 September 2023 16: 02
      Why go out and fly over with drones and see what the troops are doing? Report the situation if they are lying.

      It is necessary to install cameras on the military.
      To know who fought and who fled shamefully.
      There are forces and means, and if anyone retreated, it was rather those who fled in disgrace and did not call for reinforcements




  46. -1
    24 September 2023 16: 07
    everything is correct, there is no need for people to know everything - this can only destabilize the situation. According to Stalin, an interesting opinion
  47. +3
    25 September 2023 02: 03
    Due to the nature of my work, I meet every day with soldiers arriving on leave or for treatment with a headache... after a while, after communicating with them, I stopped taking into account both the cheerful reports of the Ministry of Defense and the reports of well-fed military officers... because in fact At the front, everything is not very happy for the Russian military... to put it mildly...
  48. +1
    25 September 2023 04: 35
    The article is good but... late... But the discussions are below... thanks to everyone... I received both pleasure and new information... But let's be frank... what is happening in the country after 91 is leading the RUSSIAN world to destruction...
  49. +2
    25 September 2023 15: 21
    The North Military District itself began with reports that they were waiting for us there, and the whole army would scatter to their huts. If information were reported correctly and accurately, management decisions would also be different. Now it is not clear what to count on and the Korean scenario no longer looks like such a compromise. Rather acceptable.
  50. 0
    27 September 2023 07: 04
    As they say, you can drink tea so much that it will be a crime.... Or you can kill a person so that it will be a feat.
    Article on the topic: “we are against everything bad and for everything good.”

    Slavery and corruption at all levels are the cause of disasters. At the meeting on February 24, 2022, which was shown on TV, only Naryshkin at first timidly tried to object.

    The rest behaved like slaves and sycophants of the king. But Naryshkin, after the Supreme Commander’s shout, became shy and began to mumble “I approve and support”...... It was an instructive episode of general lies throughout the whole country. As it began, so it goes.

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