The war that brought the USSR and India closer together

41
The war that brought the USSR and India closer together


USSR – India: from diplomatic restraint to military-technical cooperation


Let's continue the conversation about the Asian direction of Soviet foreign policy during the period of the agony of South Vietnam and the collapse of US hopes of creating an anti-communist outpost in the center of the Asia-Pacific region.



Last time we talked about the ups and downs on the way to the meeting at the Beijing airport between A. N. Kosygin and Zhou Enlai.

Although it did not become a starting point for the normalization of relations, it gave a start to some kind of stabilization and negotiations on resolving controversial border issues.

Concluding the topic of Soviet-Chinese relations and further touching on it only indirectly, I note that the main marker that determined the image of the PRC abroad was the visit of R. Nixon, which was completely unexpected for Moscow and threatened in the future with a change in the balance of power in the Asia-Pacific region, which, in fact, today and it is happening, because it is difficult to imagine Deng Xiaoping’s reforms without American investment.

Let me also remind you: in 1971, Taiwan lost its UN seat in favor of the PRC.

Washington found this castling more consistent with its geopolitical interests (I almost wrote: “what, I guess, does he regret now”; however, I think that one should not exaggerate the scale of the American-Chinese geopolitical rivalry, especially considering it through the prism of the Russian-American confrontation).

Such a situation could be leveled out for the Kremlin by strengthening ties with socialist - preferably, of course, united - Vietnam (it is, you see, a kind of soft underbelly in the Asia-Pacific region, like the Balkans in Europe), as well as India, as the leader of the non-aligned movement and one of the largest countries of the region. Moreover, contrary to popular belief, initially relations between India and the USSR, which had just gained independence, were rather restrained.

Orientalist S.I. Lunev writes about the reasons:

“What was common in the policies of the USA and the USSR in the post-war period was the assessment of the world as “bipolar” and the approach “those who are not with us are against us.” A position of neutrality at that stage blocked opportunities for the South Asian country to strengthen ties with the superpowers. Therefore, at the first stage, Soviet-Indian relations were relatively cool.”

USSR: course towards strategic encirclement of China


Nevertheless, the very strategy of the two countries, determined by geography, made their rapprochement inevitable. After the break with Beijing, Moscow’s goal in Asia was to create, as defined by orientalists S. N. Goncharov and V. N. Usov, China's strategic encirclement rings, within which

“Attempts were made to reach appropriate agreements with Mongolia, North Korea, Vietnam, India, and Afghanistan. Border negotiations with the PRC were of particular importance in this sense, because Moscow emphasized that during them Beijing was demonstrating the presence of territorial claims against the Soviet Union, as well as, indeed, against other neighboring states.”

Here, briefly jumping into the XNUMXst century, I will give some interesting figures:

“During bilateral negotiations, according to American researcher E. Luttwak, the Chinese side ceded 100% of its claims in Afghanistan, 76% to Laos, 66% to Kazakhstan, 65% to Mongolia, 94% to Nepal, 60% to North Korea , 96% by Tajikistan and 50% by Vietnam on land (which contrasts strongly with China's intransigence regarding the border with Vietnam by sea). Negotiations with the Soviet Union and then with the Russian Federation were also successfully completed on the basis of 50% concessions from each side.”

E. Luttwak, despite his ideological bias, is a serious author, and I don’t think he grabbed numbers out of thin air.

But let's go back to the seventies. So, India. Close contacts with her that began after N.S. Khrushchev’s visit in 1955 became even more relevant after the meeting between R. Nixon and Mao.

In the early seventies

“The USSR,” writes S.I. Lunev, “accounted for 6,5% of India’s total imports and 13,7% of its exports.”

Another thing is no less important. According to the same author:

“Global changes in the world and internal political changes in the USSR led to a certain adjustment of the Soviet foreign policy course in South Asia. By the early 1970s, the USSR had finally strengthened the conviction that India was a reliable and natural partner in the East... India was seen as a certain counterweight to the PRC. Both the USSR and India were extremely wary of the emerging US-Chinese rapprochement, rightly seeing it as a threat to their own security.”

The third Indo-Pakistani war as a reason for rapprochement between Delhi and Moscow


This became fully evident in 1971, during the Third Indo-Pakistani War. The reason for it was the terror unleashed by Islamabad in East Bengal.

Moscow unconditionally supported Delhi, first at the diplomatic level: on April 2, 1971, when the conflict was just flaring up, the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR N.V. Podgorny sent a letter to the President of Pakistan Ya. Khan calling on him to stop terror against civilians.

And on August 9, the Soviet Union concluded the “Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation” with India. For us, this was the first such document signed with a non-socialist country. In a sense, it should be seen as a step towards reformatting Soviet foreign policy from its ideological component to a geopolitical one, with the gradual predominance of considerations that are more pragmatic than those driven by party solidarity.

To a large extent, the transformation was facilitated by tense relations with the PRC, since Beijing’s turn towards the United States also could not help but adjust the vector of foreign policy development of the USSR.

Yes, and SALT-1, coupled with the exchange of visits of R. Nixon and L. I. Brezhnev, gradually pushed ideological differences in the relationship between the superpowers into the background (another thing is that the aforementioned pragmatism and neglect of ideology had a downside for the USSR in the form of a lack of effective support for the socialist movement, expressed including in the form of guerrilla struggle, in Latin America, but this is a topic for another discussion).

The agreement concluded with India was soon tested for strength. Having visited the USSR in September 1971, I. Gandhi did not hide her intention to begin military operations against Pakistan in East Bengal. The terror unleashed there by the Pakistani army was one of the reasons: people were grabbed on the streets, taken to the shore of Chittagong, located near the second largest city in the region, and shot with machine guns. Tens of thousands of civilians died this way.

What was happening near India could not leave its leadership indifferent, especially against the backdrop of the mass emigration of Bengalis fleeing extrajudicial reprisals. Delhi began to provide assistance to the armed forces of the Mukti Bahini national liberation movement, which aggravated the confrontation with Islamabad, which considered such a step as interference in its internal affairs.

In this situation, I. Gandhi found effective support in Moscow, and not only diplomatic:

“By the beginning of November, from the USSR to India,” writes the historian of the Soviet Navy A. Rozin, “special shipments of military equipment by air began, the Soviet military transport aviation delivered anti-tank missiles, artillery, Tanks. In November, a Soviet military delegation led by Air Force Commander-in-Chief Marshal P. S. Kutakhov arrived in India to discuss new supplies of Soviet weapons. "

In general, massive deliveries of Soviet weapons to India began back in 1960. Pakistan, in turn, enjoyed active military-technical support from the United States and, even at that time, China. In particular, the “Land of the Pure” imported from the Middle Kingdom a Type 54 tank created on the basis of the Soviet T-59. The Pakistani Air Force had an unlicensed copy of the Il-28 front-line bomber - N-5, as well as J-6 fighters (MiG-19, export version - F-6), which performed well during the war, see here: F-6 fighters in the Indo-Pakistan conflict.

Military-technical cooperation between Islamabad and Beijing, which is largely identical to the diplomatic rapprochement between the two countries, also caused concern in New Delhi and, among other things, encouraged deepening contacts with Moscow.

By the way, the Americans, although on a limited scale, also helped the Indians, which is not surprising, since Delhi, since gaining independence, has followed a policy of diversifying military purchases (which we observed several years ago, when the Su-30 MKI was more budgetary, but no less effective Indians preferred French Rafales).

During the military operations that unfolded in the winter of 1971, the equipment supplied by the USSR did not fail. In particular, the PT-76 amphibious tanks performed excellently, especially in battles with the American M-24s in service with the Pakistanis; They also sank enemy gunboats. And the Su-7 fighter-bombers we delivered three years earlier turned out to be up to par in every sense, as well as the MiG-21s covering them. Among those hit by them: French Mirage-3, American Sabers and B-57.

No less effective assistance, in addition to the supply of weapons, was provided to Delhi by the 8th operational squadron of the Soviet Navy, located in the Indian Ocean, which leveled the dominance of the 7th operational squadron there. fleet USA. The presence of the Soviet squadron kept the American carrier strike group deployed in the Bay of Bengal from neutralizing the Indian fleet. For the first time, the USSR then used space reconnaissance assets, which made it possible to reveal the US Navy grouping that was preparing to support Pakistan with the actions of carrier-based aircraft and naval artillery.

The war ended with Indian victory and the formation of independent Bangladesh. In Dhaka they understood to whom, along with India, they owed their independence. And therefore, it is no coincidence that the USSR became the first state where the President of Bangladesh M. Rahman paid an official visit - in March 1972.

Alas, it was collapsed as a result of a coup, probably carried out under the control of the CIA, but which also became a consequence of the internal politics of the president himself, the complex details of which are beyond the scope of our topic. Another thing is important: as a result, Bangladesh, until the early nineties, began to focus on the United States and China in the sphere of foreign policy.

"Smiling Buddha" as a move in a great chess game


Another milestone in cooperation between the USSR and India was 1974. That year, India tested a nuclear device for the first time, as part of Operation Smiling Buddha. An interesting detail: hypothetically, India could have conducted a nuclear test back in the 1960s, after China, but did not do this, asking the US and UK to guarantee it a “nuclear umbrella”, but was refused.

In turn, according to the Indologist F.N. Yurlov:

“Pakistan’s nuclear program, as many experts believe, began shortly after Pakistan’s defeat in the war with India in 1971... The creation of a new state with the help of India fundamentally changed the balance of power in South Asia against Pakistan.”

Let's add to this Islamabad's orientation toward the United States and its gradual rapprochement with China, which provided Pakistan with great assistance in creating nuclear weapons. Beijing viewed the “Land of the Pure” as a kind of indirect means of putting pressure on India - the PLA General Staff, due to the cooperation of Delhi and Moscow, was unlikely to plan a nuclear strike on its western neighbor, despite the unresolved territorial disputes.

And the ability of the Chinese Air Force to overcome the Indian air defense created with the help of the USSR is questionable.

“Since the mid-60s of the last century, air defense units in the air force,” writes military historian S. Aminov, “received Soviet medium-range S-75M Volkhov air defense systems (the aforementioned Chinese H-5 was quite suitable for them) teeth - I. Kh.) and the short-range air defense system S-125M "Pechora."

But Pakistan was quite ready to wave its nuclear baton over its neighbor’s head, albeit a small one. And Beijing willingly helped Islamabad acquire it (according to unconfirmed reports, including the creator of the Pakistani atomic bomb A. Khan - in 1987), which only contributed to the strengthening of Soviet-Indian military-technical cooperation.

The Indians themselves were in no hurry with the bomb, conducting repeated tests only in 1998. Firstly, they still counted on a deterrent role, including in relation to Pakistan and the USSR; secondly, due to the sharp warming of relations with China as a result of R. Gandhi’s visit in 1988; thirdly, in the second half of the eighties, India relied on superiority over Pakistan (Rajiv was not a supporter of India joining the nuclear club) in conventional weapons. But the eighties are already different story, which will be discussed further.

Использованная литература:
Sethna H.N. India's Nuclear Energy Program - Past and Future // IAEA Bulletin - Book 21, Number 5.
Vlasov G.D. Indian arms market: history and prospects // Contours of global transformations: politics, economics, law. T. 15. No. 2. P. 154-172.
Goncharov, S.N. Negotiations between A. N. Kosygin and Zhou Enlai at Beijing airport / S. N. Goncharov // About medieval and modern China. - N., 2006. - P. 310-328.
November 2006, XNUMX
Davidson F.B. The Vietnam War (1946 - 1975. - Oxford University Press, 1991.
Dikikh A.A. India and Pakistan: wars, conflicts, their resolution and consequences // Security Issues. - M., 2017.
Drong A. Relations of Bangladesh with the Soviet Union and Russia (1972 - 2015) // Genesis: historical studies. – 2017. – No. 2. – P. 1-11.
S.I. Lunev Soviet-Indian relations. // Bulletin of MGIMO - M., 2017 - pp. 24-51.
Luttwak, Edward N. The Rise of China Against the Logic of Strategy. — M.: Publishing house “Russian Foundation for the Promotion of Education and Science”; Dmitry Pozharsky University, 2016.
Yurlov F.N., Yurlova E.S. History of India 2010th century. M.: Institute of Oriental Studies RAS, XNUMX.
http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/asia/su7/su7.html
http://www.iimes.ru/?p=64868
http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/asia/f6/f6.html
https://alerozin.narod.ru/DRV1972/Vietnam72.17.htm
http://pvo.guns.ru/other/india/india_pvo_pro.htm
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  1. +7
    19 September 2023 05: 12
    And Brezhnev, so young... Even before the stroke, "titsmass", and regularly awarding yourself with orders and medals. At that time he was quite adequate.
    1. +8
      19 September 2023 06: 04
      Quote: Nagan
      And Brezhnev, so young...

      Happy times... We were once trotters!
      1. +5
        19 September 2023 07: 54
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        ....Happy times...

        This is Vladimir Vladimirovich hi, there were the last years of socialist optimism, when the development and construction of new factories and technologies took place, when everyone was proud of the Victory won in 1945 and the Mausoleum was not covered with a rag, there were Parades and demonstrations on holidays, when there were pioneers, Octoberists, construction brigades .... Times about which my generation can recognize from songs, from books, from photographs of parents, newsreels....
        1. +7
          19 September 2023 08: 14
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Times that my generation can learn about from songs, from books, from photographs of parents, newsreels....

          1971....I am 22 years old...Youth and whole life ahead!
          Dima hi
          1. +2
            19 September 2023 08: 42
            Quote: Uncle Lee
            .....Youth and the whole life ahead!....

            We studied, worked, made plans, believed in the victory of socialism throughout the world
            1. +2
              19 September 2023 11: 30
              Quote: Reptiloid
              believed in the victory of socialism throughout the world

              Did you really believe it?
              Well, let’s say about the Czech Republic/Hungary and the shooting of the post-war leaders of the countries of the socialist camp may not have known
              But you knew about the enmity between socialist Albania and the SFRY against the USSR.
              And you knew about the conflicts between the USSR and socialist China.
              And they also knew about the “First Socialist War” (as the West dubbed it) between socialist China and socialist Vietnam with total losses of about 40.
              Haven't you seen these global contradictions??
              Your faith was abstract - like a religion, not supported by anything. As a child, you believe that you will live forever....
              Just a postulate...
              1. +1
                19 September 2023 11: 44
                Did you really believe it?

                hi This is my impression from the science fiction of that time, domestic, of course. Based on songs of that time, children's books of that time, children's magazines, programs
                And I learned about some events much later. Sometimes already here. Although there were relatives who were in Czechoslovakia, Hungary or even Poland during these protests against the USSR. BUT during the capitalism it was no longer very clear from the stories and it seemed like a very long time ago....
              2. +5
                19 September 2023 11: 47
                Did you really believe it?
                Well, let’s say about the Czech Republic/Hungary and the shooting of the post-war leaders of the countries of the socialist camp may not have known
                But you knew about the enmity between socialist Albania and the SFRY against the USSR.
                And you knew about the conflicts between the USSR and socialist China.
                And they also knew about the “First Socialist War” (as the West dubbed it) between socialist China and socialist Vietnam with total losses of about 40.
                Haven't you seen these global contradictions??
                Your faith was abstract - like a religion, not supported by anything. As a child, you believe that you will live forever....
                Just a postulate...

                What contradictions there are, all these Albanias were dust on the hooves of our horses. negative
                You can’t even imagine the atmosphere of confidence and power that existed in the USSR during the Brezhnev era. Everyone understood that we would grind anyone into powder, including overseas. Yes
                1. +1
                  19 September 2023 12: 55
                  Quote: Arzt
                  Did you really believe it?
                  Well, let’s say about the Czech Republic/Hungary and the shooting of the post-war leaders of the countries of the socialist camp may not have known
                  But you knew about the enmity between socialist Albania and the SFRY against the USSR.
                  And you knew about the conflicts between the USSR and socialist China.
                  And they also knew about the “First Socialist War” (as the West dubbed it) between socialist China and socialist Vietnam with total losses of about 40.
                  Haven't you seen these global contradictions??
                  Your faith was abstract - like a religion, not supported by anything. As a child, you believe that you will live forever....
                  Just a postulate...

                  What contradictions there are, all these Albanias were dust on the hooves of our horses. negative
                  You can’t even imagine the atmosphere of confidence and power that existed in the USSR during the Brezhnev era. Everyone understood that we would grind anyone into powder, including overseas. Yes
                  it
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  impression by science fiction of that time, domestic, of course.

                  Vera...
                  You enter the temple and there is splendor, singing, everything is blissful...
                  You go out into the street and there is no way to ask yourself the question: if God omnipotent and omniscient- then what is the Temple for, if he already knows - from his work???

                  So here too - how could one believe in socialism all over the world - seeing how gasoline is poured into ravines and iron is scattered across the fields?
                  If the state cannot cope with the mess within itself, what the hell is world socialism??
                  1. +2
                    19 September 2023 13: 13
                    Faith...
                    You enter the temple and there is splendor, singing, everything is blissful...
                    You go out into the street and there is no way to ask yourself a question: if God is omnipotent and all-knowing, then why is the Temple, if he already knows - from his work???

                    So here too - how could one believe in socialism all over the world - seeing how gasoline is poured into ravines and iron is scattered across the fields?
                    If the state cannot cope with the mess within itself, what the hell is world socialism??

                    Only old women went to Temples. Sometimes the particularly drunk ones could appear on Easter. Religion didn't have nearly the weight it does now.

                    If in a figurative sense they didn’t believe in socialism, THEY LIVED IN IT. Now, of course, this is impossible to understand. fool

                    Gasoline cost a penny, but I don’t remember it being poured into ravines. Why?
                    The enterprises did not give money for it, but coupons. Drivers sold these coupons for ridiculous amounts of money, or they could even just give them as gifts.

                    There was no chaos, there was revolutionary order. Would you try walking down the street with just a punk hairstyle, let alone in an LGBT suit.
                    Until the first intersection with a policeman. Unless, of course, the vigilant Komsomol members do not extinguish communism first. laughing

                    1. -1
                      19 September 2023 13: 46
                      Quote: Arzt
                      If in a figurative sense they didn’t believe in socialism, THEY LIVED IN IT. Now, of course, this is impossible to understand.

                      Naturally they lived...
                      Quote: Arzt
                      Gasoline cost a penny, but I don’t remember it being poured into ravines. Why?
                      The enterprises did not give money for it, but coupons.
                      i.e MAIN in this matter you do not know..Enterprises were allocated FUNDS for a period (year/month/quarter) and these funds had to be spent before the end of the reporting period. Store the funds previous period at the enterprise is a known crime. Therefore funds NOT those of material value, such as gasoline, were simply received at an oil depot and dumped into ravines.
                      Funds of value - boards, washing powder, overalls, cement, paint, etc. - was issued to workers for pennies.
                      NOT selection of funds - cutting the funds of the next period down to zero and not caring that the company will have nothing to do with the plan. And accordingly there will be no bonuses...
                      Quote: Arzt
                      There was no chaos, there was revolutionary order.

                      And it was wildest a mess in the economy - which ultimately ruined the country.

                      There was a village in Ukraine - 10 tons of ammonium nitrate were moved from the Selkhozkhimiya warehouses into a ravine on the outskirts. The warehouses were urgently emptied in the name of funds.
                      This is not 10 kilotons, of course, but if it gets there, the village will be blown away.
                      In 1990, I came across an article in a newspaper about this and it was unknown what to do. It’s almost impossible to take them out; they might explode.
                      And this is the mess in the economy...

                      And order in clothes/hair is just a penny change. Let people walk around with shorts on their heads - as long as there is no chaos in the economy
                      1. +3
                        19 September 2023 14: 36
                        that is, you don’t know the MAIN THING in this matter.. Enterprises were allocated FUNDS for a period (year/month/quarter) and these funds had to be spent before the end of the reporting period. Keeping funds from the previous period at the enterprise is a known crime. Therefore, funds that do not represent material value, such as gasoline, were simply received at an oil depot and dumped into ravines.
                        Funds of value - boards, washing powder, overalls, cement, paint, etc. - was issued to workers for pennies.
                        NOT a selection of funds - cutting the funds of the next period down to zero and not caring that the company will have nothing to do with the plan. And accordingly there will be no bonuses...

                        You're digging deep. In the USSR, specially trained people were engaged in this work, and the people did their own thing.
                        And of course there were problems, remember, in “Office Romance” -: It’s because of such bastards like you that we have shortages of this or that product on our store shelves.”

                        But you are deeply mistaken if you think that in a market economy everything is fine in this sense. Have you heard the expression “crisis of overproduction”?



                        The economic problems of the USSR were not related to the inefficiency of the planned economy, but to the fact that we were trying to pull the entire socialist world on our hump.
                        If we cut down the appetites of the military-industrial complex and stop feeding blacks, Switzerland would envy us. Yes
                      2. -1
                        19 September 2023 15: 04
                        Quote: Arzt
                        If we cut down the appetites of the military-industrial complex and stop feeding blacks, Switzerland would envy us

                        Plus Yes
                      3. 0
                        19 September 2023 20: 41
                        Quote: Arzt
                        If we cut down the appetites of the military-industrial complex and stop feeding blacks, Switzerland would envy us.

                        The problem with socialism is that anyone in a leadership position could do stupid things without fear of consequences. For example, our institute recommended that all defense plants under construction in Bashkiria install stacker cranes approximately 10-60 times more than necessary. The managing director of TsNITI considered, in the conditions of the transition to a market economy, to sign papers on the transfer to the balance sheet (free of charge) in favor of his own enterprise, a programmer for Penza controllers, which led to the failure of the order and created economic problems for his enterprise and the production of fuel equipment in Russia and left him without ordering Penza plant. In a traditional market economy or in Russia in 2010, having received a refusal from my boss, I would have simply offered the Noginsk fuel equipment plant or the Penza plant to work with me directly after being fired by the loser leader of Tsniti. But in 1993, I still considered myself obligated to be loyal to the production and my team. If the funds allocated by the military-industrial complex were transferred to light industry, it would still produce unclaimed products, but these would not be tanks, but ugly clothes and shoes. Chubais, Putin, Yeltsin retained all the negative features of socialism 22 years after the collapse of the USSR under new conditions. Everyone can see that the oil industry managed to supply oil to India without payment, Nabiullina financed the West with $300 billion to wage war in Ukraine, the Foreign Ministry was unable to agree with Mim Jong-un on the supply of North Korean modern equipment and the joint production of ammunition and weapons. On the other hand, the Russian Foreign Ministry does not bother to reintroduce duties on mutual trade with Afghanistan after the Taliban voted to confiscate Russian funds stored in foreign banks. Putin supplies free fertilizers and grain to Western countries instead of supplying these products with Belarus only to those countries that sell weapons to Russia. The current mistakes overshadow the nonsense with stacker cranes and programmers in the late USSR.
                      4. -2
                        20 September 2023 10: 04
                        Chubais, Putin, Yeltsin retained all the negative features of socialism 22 years after the collapse of the USSR under new conditions. Everyone can see that the oil industry managed to supply oil to India without payment, Nabiullina financed the West with $300 billion to wage war in Ukraine, the Foreign Ministry was unable to agree with Mim Jong-un on the supply of North Korean modern equipment and the joint production of ammunition and weapons. On the other hand, the Russian Foreign Ministry does not bother to reintroduce duties on mutual trade with Afghanistan after the Taliban voted to confiscate Russian funds stored in foreign banks. Putin supplies free fertilizers and grain to Western countries instead of supplying these products with Belarus only to those countries that sell weapons to Russia. The current mistakes overshadow the nonsense with stacker cranes and programmers in the late USSR.

                        That's right. But these are not the traits of socialism, but the personal traits of Chubais, Putin and Yeltsin. wink
                        For the sake of dubious political preferences, they invested money abroad instead of their own country.

                        300 billion dollars is 15 million-plus cities with all the infrastructureso that you understand.
                        With the cost of the apartment being $50 thousand.

                        And if you also build them in the Far East and Siberia...

                        And if you also give apartments free of charge on social rent for 25 years to families of 4 children or more...

                        Well, you understand...

                        But it’s not fate, the black birth rate has dropped to 6 people per woman, we need to save it quickly, they’re starving again! laughing
                      5. -1
                        19 September 2023 14: 38
                        And it was a wild mess in the economy, which ultimately destroyed the country.

                        There was no chaos, there was a bias in the military-industrial complex. 80% of the economy worked for the war. That’s why some wore galoshes.
                        But even then they would have pulled it out if not for Chernobyl. You will not find the USSR budget for 1986-1987 even now. wink
                      6. 0
                        19 September 2023 14: 52
                        Naturally they lived...

                        Absolutely natural.
                        Look carefully at the films of those years. Streets, houses, apartments, transport, environment, relationships between people.
                        Everything is yours, everything is natural. Even the criminals are cute.
                        Compare “The investigation was conducted by experts” and “Cop Wars”.
                        And this is not a stretch. And so it was. Yes
                      7. -3
                        19 September 2023 15: 17
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Look carefully at the films of those years. Streets, houses, apartments, transport, environment, relationships between people

                        Transport and relations on it... yeah, I remember:
                        - a trip to visit my grandparents, Paveletsky Station, Moscow. They didn’t enter the train, but flew into it, kicking those from behind)))
                        - bus home, from the same Moscow. It's an hour and a half drive, you get in last and hang in the back door for an hour and a half... young, everything is fine.

                        Can you find something like this right now, even in a nightmare? wink
                      8. +1
                        19 September 2023 15: 41
                        Transport and relations on it... yeah, I remember:
                        - a trip to visit my grandparents, Paveletsky Station, Moscow. They didn’t enter the train, but flew into it, kicking those from behind)))
                        - bus home, from the same Moscow. It's an hour and a half drive, you get in last and hang in the back door for an hour and a half... young, everything is fine.

                        Can you find something like this right now, even in a nightmare? wink

                        It was so. But I'm talking about something else. Here's a quest for you, Moscow street - find a foreign car.


                        Hint - starting with the letter "I". laughing

                        Or for example, Dushanbe.... wink
                      9. +2
                        19 September 2023 15: 09
                        And order in clothes/hair is just a penny change. Let people walk around with shorts on their heads - as long as there is no chaos in the economy

                        What kind of people are wearing shorts on their heads? Are you kidding me?

                        THE GERMANS WALKED IN FORMATION IN OUR UNIFORMS, AND WERE RECEIVED IN OUR "SEAGULLS" TO OUR FORMATION SONGS AND PARADES!

                        The same ones that “leopards” are sending now. And who are they sending it to?! It's mind boggling... fool

                  2. -3
                    19 September 2023 13: 23
                    Quote: your1970
                    Quote: Arzt
                    ...
                    What contradictions there are, all these Albanias were dust on the hooves of our horses. negative
                    You can’t even imagine the atmosphere of confidence and power that existed in the USSR during the Brezhnev era. Everyone understood that we would grind anyone into powder,
                    overseas as well. Yes

                    .... how could one believe in socialism all over the world, seeing how gasoline is poured into ravines and iron is scattered across the fields?
                    If the state cannot cope with the mess within itself, what the hell is world socialism??

                    Somehow people under the USSR believed that they would overcome the shortcomings and remnants of capitalism. You probably read those newspapers? I don’t. But the fact that there was pride in the Victory and construction projects, space, the achievements of socialism, can be seen from the songs of that time, they are on the Internet.
                    But personally, I knew about China, about Vietnam too, because before school I lived in the Far East. And the St. Petersburg children were my age and didn’t even know, as I understood. And they didn’t know for sure about the slander against Stalin and the split in the socialist camp.
                    1. +3
                      19 September 2023 13: 36
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      the fact that there was pride in Victory and construction projects, space, the achievements of socialism is evident from the songs of that time, they are on the Internet

                      Hard case. There was definitely pride. But you can’t go to the city with pride, you can’t cook porridge and you can’t sew a fur coat. And these porridge fur coats flew around the near cosmos in the form of a useless but very expensive Buran, and sailed across the seas, and stood in tank boxes. The question - why is there so much of this, but to calculate how much is really necessary - it was not even raised... but why? Agitprop will work everything out:

                      But we make rockets, and blocked the Yenisei,
                      And also in the field of ballet ...

                      Well, agitprop at some point didn’t work. And everything broke. But all that was needed was to scientifically calculate what was really needed. And how many. And that's it. Censorship.
                    2. +4
                      19 September 2023 13: 55
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      You probably read those newspapers?

                      Everyone read them, but the presentation of information was such that the eye did not see them, and the brain did not perceive them. Yes, and afterthought is such a thing...
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      But the fact that there was pride in the Victory and construction projects, space, the achievements of socialism is evident from songs that time, they are online.
                      - if in order to get anywhere, a song must pass a commission, then even now they will write you a pretentious song. Easy... The authorities, even then, even now, need the right content - only then it was much easier due to the limitations of conveying information...
                      The talent of Kobzon and his authors is that among his slogans “You give something there...” - there were songs “17 Moments of Spring”
                      1. +4
                        19 September 2023 14: 13
                        Quote: your1970
                        The talent of Kobzon and his authors is that among his slogans “You give something there...” - there were songs “17 Moments of Spring”

                        Someone downvoted Kobzon and the lack of Internet fool lol
                      2. 0
                        19 September 2023 14: 31
                        I am in elementary school, I studied using socialist textbooks, but the capitalism has already manifested itself. One teacher said that there is no need to celebrate the New Year, March 8 and February 23, but only church ones. Parents (different) were indignant, and she was “removed”.
                        Then there was another incident. Someone brought a fairy tale book about a kulak and a farm laborer --- there were also words
                        .....And then the farm laborer decided to complain to Comrade Stalin......

                        How old was this little book? Don't know
                        the teacher took it away.
              3. +2
                19 September 2023 11: 59
                Quote: your1970
                Your faith was abstract

                - You are a joyless person and very harmful.
                - You need to spit in every pot!
                "Two comrades served"
                1. +2
                  19 September 2023 12: 23
                  Quote: Uncle Lee
                  Quote: your1970
                  Your faith was abstract

                  - You are a joyless person and very harmful.
                  - You need to spit in every pot!
                  "Two comrades served"

                  I agree and supplement.
                  Yeah, if I was minus 1971 years old in 7, then it’s difficult to answer what Dmitry, who is 10 years younger than me, could believe.
                  1. +1
                    19 September 2023 12: 47
                    I started reading science fiction at ~6~7 years old, and it was at home, because... the elders read it. That is, I had an internal feeling of optimism. The first one I read was Belyaev’s 3-volume book (from Stalin’s times). Behind him is Stanislav Lem, about Trurl and Klapaucius. Of course, the child did not have faith, but simply the confidence that “everything is fine!” Parents probably protected all first-graders, and did not know about the destruction of the USSR! And later, everyone was waiting for the Octobrists and Pioneers to be accepted into the class! Of course, for teenagers ~14~16 years old, it was clearer?
                    1. -2
                      19 September 2023 13: 04
                      For example, in my time there were pioneer songs, there were Soviet scientific books with thin covers (and among them, by the way, Kondratov), ​​there was a film magazine I WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING, and there were Soviet films --- "The Inquiry of Pilot Pirx", "People and Dolphins", “Aquanauts”, “Moscow---Cassiopeia”, “Adventures of Electronics”, “Gum Gum”, different ones about Alisa Seleznyova. At the beginning of the capitalism, there were still socialist films on TV. And there were VCRs, and discs began to appear
                  2. +3
                    19 September 2023 13: 06
                    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Quote: Uncle Lee
                    Quote: your1970
                    Your faith was abstract

                    - You are a joyless person and very harmful.
                    - You need to spit in every pot!
                    "Two comrades served"

                    I agree and supplement.
                    Yeah, if I was minus 1971 years old in 7, then what could Dmitry, who 10 years younger I find it difficult to answer.

                    belay but he beats like a 60 year old
                    1. -1
                      19 September 2023 13: 48
                      .....and he fights like a 60-year-old

                      When I came here, I knew nothing except about the ancient World, Russian Paganism, and astronomy. And then, he asked --- what books are better to read? I have relatives who fought and were party workers, but somehow living in the taiga, I don’t remember anyone talking about it. And then --- moving to Leningrad, 1st grade, etc.
                      Excerpt from a children's socialist song ---
                      I look and I want
                      Across our great Country
                      Drive from edge to edge!
                      The heart is beating excitedly,
                      And then our train flies on,
                      As if understanding me.

                      Always be friends with romance
                      We will be with you, yes
                      And it's a journey
                      We will remember forever!
                      We will grow and new
                      Let's build cities!
                      Always be friends with romance
                      We'll--ha-ha-ha---yeah!

                      And a wonderful non-fiction story THE MOAN OF AN AMOEBA, it’s not online, I listened to a piece on the radio
                    2. 0
                      19 September 2023 15: 18
                      Quote: your1970
                      but he beats like a 60 year old

                      Pepsi generation reversed Yes laughing
                  3. -1
                    19 September 2023 13: 15
                    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                    I was minus 1971 years old in 7

                    Cool. And on what basis then, at least purely logical, do you scratch “I agree” there? Explain, please.

                    PS: I was a full 71 on the 10st, if anything laughing
                2. +5
                  19 September 2023 13: 03
                  Quote: Uncle Lee
                  Quote: your1970
                  Your faith was abstract

                  - You are a joyless person and very harmful.
                  - You need to spit in every pot!
                  "Two comrades served"

                  Bykov's hero betrayed his colleague as a counter-revolutionary when necessary.
                  Between this and then, out of conviction...

                  Quote from Uncle Lee
                  "Two comrades served"
                  and the film is of course very strong, it turned out almost like a documentary
                  1. 0
                    20 September 2023 02: 13
                    Quote: your1970
                    Bykov's hero betrayed his colleague as a counter-revolutionary when necessary.

                    What are you doing? Offended? In vain. You're in vain. I thought you were an enemy of the revolution, my heart began to boil, but now I see for myself that I was mistaken. - “I was wrong.”

                    Film texts: https://cinematext.ru/movie/sluzhili-dva-tovarischa-1968/?page=7
              4. -3
                19 September 2023 15: 03
                Quote: your1970
                ..... about the enmity between socialist Albania and the SFRY against the USSR .... conflicts of the USSR with socialist China - ...

                It is interesting that, unlike the countries of the socialist camp or Albania, the SFRY, the USSR always had even friendly relations with India, which did not talk about a socialist course.
                If we remember pre-revolutionary times, attitudes towards Indians were positive. What is reflected in folklore. For example, about Prince Joasaph. Or about Afanasy Nikitin. Or about Kozma Indicoplov.
                To this day, the secret of the conspiracy against Paul I remains and the blame for his murder is attributed to England
                .....the English ambassador at the St. Petersburg court was Whitworth......I know that the first conspiracy was made between him and Olga Alexandrovna Zherebtsova, sister of Platon Zubov......

                Contemporary Alexander Velyaminov-Zernov.
                If it were not for the death of Paul I, then the relations of the Republic of Ingushetia with India and France would have reached a completely different level. In particular, a continental blockade would be successful
    2. 0
      22 September 2023 09: 32
      I read the article again. I really like her. I would like to add ---The path that India took after the overthrow of British colonialism continues!!! The Hindus want to show that England is the past. Their present is their ancient history and original culture. That's why the renaming happened. There was --- India, now it is called the same as before the British --- BHARAT! By the way, renaming is happening throughout their country:
      Bombay --- Mumbai
      Madras --- Chennai
      Kolkata --- Kolkata
      Allahabad --- Prayagraj
      State of Orissa --- Odisha
      Uttaranchala --- Uttarakhand
  2. +5
    19 September 2023 08: 22
    This became fully evident in 1971, during the Third Indo-Pakistani War. The reason for it was the terror unleashed by Islamabad in East Bengal.

    In 1971, East Bengal did not exist. There was a province of East Pakistan in which there was a civil war, the goal of which was the independence of East Pakistan. This war caused a multimillion-dollar flow of refugees from East Pakistan to India, which the Indian economy simply could not cope with. Therefore, India came to the conclusion that it would be economically justifiable to start a war with Pakistan and support East Pakistan in the struggle for independence. In fact, India began to participate in the conflict in April 1971, when the partisans of the Bangladesh People's Liberation Army began to be trained and supplied on Indian territory. In April, Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw assured Indira Gandhi that if she gave him the necessary time to prepare, he would guarantee victory over Pakistan. Formally, by the way, Pakistan started the war by carrying out air strikes on Indian airfields.
    By the way, the Americans, although on a limited scale, also helped the Indians,

    So the USSR also helped Pakistan. Arms supplies to Pakistan from the USSR continued until September 1971. Back in May 1971, the USSR was strongly recommended to buy Soviet missile boats. The Pakistanis refused, which they very soon regretted.
    a US Navy group that was preparing to support Pakistan with carrier-based aircraft, naval artillery and cruise missile strikes.

    I wonder what cruise missiles the US aircraft carrier group could have “supported Pakistan” in 1971?
    1. 0
      12 February 2024 19: 37
      Quote: Dekabrist
      In 1971, East Bengal did not exist.

      It seems that during the partition of India, Great Britain divided Bengal into Eastern and Western parts and one of the parts of Bengal became the basis of East Pakistan. Britain actually planned to transfer Muslim lands from India to Afghanistan, but the king refused. An echo of these events was the invasion of Pashtun tribes in Kashmir, after which India was cut off by land from the route to the USSR through the territory of their friendly Afghanistan.
  3. Fat
    +2
    19 September 2023 11: 55
    hi Igor. Magnificent opus...
    We need to re-read, check and think. Thank you!
  4. 0
    12 February 2024 19: 50
    Moreover, contrary to popular belief, initially relations between India and the USSR, which had just gained independence, were rather restrained.
    Relations with India were at a very high level from the very beginning. The USSR recognized the independence of India even a little earlier than India itself proclaimed it. With the technical assistance of the USSR, large metallurgical plants for that time were built in India. Before the Indo-Chinese war in the Himalayas, relations with the USSR were excellent. But after the USSR did not support either China or India in this conflict, it ruined relations with both countries. And even now the PRC expects loyalty from Russia to its policies in Asia and Africa, and Russia then supplied 25 drones to Burma in 2014 to correct the shelling of Chinese rebels and special forces from the PRC by the Burmese army, although Strelkov needed this equipment for the defense of Savyansk.