“Russia has become just a geographical concept.” The Bolsheviks saved the country

170
“Russia has become just a geographical concept.” The Bolsheviks saved the country
American intervention troops in Vladivostok. August 1918


Occupation of Russia


After the revolution of 1917, the masters of England and the United States support whites, reds, separatist nationalists, any government. The main thing is the complete collapse of Great Russia, with no prospects for a new reunification.



The West is already sharing the skin of the Russian bear. Celebrating victory in the global carnage (England and the USA pitted Germany and Russia), believing that the whole world is in their pocket. American President Woodrow Wilson announced the “1918 Points” in 14 as a manifesto of US global dominance.

The occupation of strategic points and areas was carried out both with the aim of dividing Russia and its total robbery. The USA, England and France were not content with the colossal treasures of gold taken from Russia and appropriated by them during the First World War and after the Revolution. It is also worth remembering that the wealth captured by the Germans after the occupation of the entire western part of Russia was more than 1 million square meters. km (Baltics, Little Russia, Crimea, Transcaucasia), as well as reparations and indemnities, also came under the control of the Entente.

In December 1917, the Entente gave Romania the green light to occupy Bessarabia. The USA, England and France sign an agreement under which they decided to tear away from Russia the Baltic states, Little Russia (now Ukraine), Bessarabia, Crimea, the Caucasus, the Don region and Turkestan. Russia was divided into zones of influence. The French zone of influence included Ukraine, Bessarabia and Crimea. The British reserved the right to the “Cossack and Caucasian regions”, the zone of Russian influence in Persia and Turkey (Kurdistan). The USA and Japan received the Far East and Siberia. The Americans also planned to establish control over the Russian North.

The possible resistance of the Russians was not taken into account, because the Westerners somehow controlled the nationalists (they fielded the largest armies during the Time of Troubles) and the Whites. Republican Senator Miles Poindexter, calling for intervention, said bluntly:

“Russia has become just a geographical concept, and it will never be anything more. Her powers of cohesion, organization and restoration are gone forever. The nation does not exist..."

With the help of the Czechoslovak Corps, the Entente brings the Trans-Siberian Railway, the key highway of Russia, under its control. This allows you to control Russia from the Volga to Vladivostok. The British in 1918 landed in Murmansk, Arkhangelsk, Crimea, Transcaucasia and Vladivostok. The British are also trying to gain a foothold in the Baltic, Black and Caspian Seas.

France concentrates its attention in Southern Russia - Odessa, Kherson and Sevastopol. The United States sends troops to the Far East, Siberia and the Russian North. Japan captures all of Sakhalin, sends troops into Primorye, and with the help of its white satellites plans to control vast areas of the Far East and Siberia. The Entente gives Poland the go-ahead to occupy the western regions of Russia - in Little and White Rus'.

This was a real occupation of Russia! Western colonialists viewed Russia as a new huge colony, instantly forgetting about the “allied” tsarist Russia and the Provisional Government, which fought for the Entente until the last Russian soldier, ensuring victory over the German bloc. Russians and other indigenous peoples of Russian civilization were supposed to repeat the fate of the Indians. Extermination and reservations. And they wanted to appropriate the lands, mineral resources, timber and other riches of the Russian land.

Everything that was of any value was exported. Any resistance was crushed using the most brutal methods. The Russians became “Indians,” that is, aborigines who lost their “white man” status. Supporters of the Soviets were stabbed, chopped, shot in batches, hanged, drowned, taken away in torture “death trains”, starved and cold in concentration camps. In the Arkhangelsk region alone, 17% of the population was thrown into prisons and concentration camps. The British created “death camps” in the North, killing thousands of Russian people.

The Bolsheviks saved Russia


Everywhere where the invaders appeared, arrests, executions, general robberies, and the removal of treasures and valuables began. The collective West removed from the occupied regions valuables worth many billions of gold rubles. Including the gold reserves of the Russian Empire. Such a total robbery story and Russia did not yet know (before the collapse of the USSR and the dashing 90s). Russia has not yet presented an account for this robbery and occupation.

The Russian people withstood the onslaught of the collective West and part of the East (Japan). On July 29, 1918, Russian communists adopted the resolution “Death or Victory! All for the defense of the Fatherland!”

Lenin stated:

“We are again in a war, we are in a war, and this war is not only a civil war, with kulaks, landowners, capitalists, who have now united against us, but now Anglo-French imperialism is already standing against us...”

And further:

“We are now at war with Anglo-French imperialism and with everything that is bourgeois, capitalist in Russia, which is making an effort to disrupt the entire cause of the socialist revolution and drag us into war. The question is that all the gains of the workers and peasants are at stake.”

The Bolsheviks won this war. The Western occupiers had to leave Russia.

The West's plan to resolve the “Russian question” was again thwarted. The Russian people paid a huge price for this, but avoided death and disappearance from the historical arena. Russia has not become just a “geographical concept”.
170 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +24
    18 September 2023 04: 11
    Russia has not yet presented an account for this robbery and occupation.

    You recall the events of a hundred years ago, which only Shpakovsky or some other patriotic old-timer recalls, but why does no one want to talk about those interventionists who in the 90s allowed the collapse and plunder of a great country, securing their parasitic existence by abolishing the articles of the Criminal Code, various joining shitty organizations and introducing a moratorium on the death penalty and confiscation of stolen property?
    Something disgusts the perception of the ideology of Leopold the cat and prevents us from understanding and forgiving the fat-faced and fat-assed creatures who have received the right to another robbery and division... And it is also surprising with what calmness the population of the country parted with their hard-earned property under the sweet-voiced promises of establishing a luxurious and free life. Perhaps he thinks this is the life he is destined for? Fuck it!
    This is a homemade preparation of opportunists, changelings, traitors... Judas, for whom nothing is sacred, no honor, no conscience.
    Preparation, another cunning plan that concerns only your loved ones...
    1. +13
      18 September 2023 04: 14
      I'm afraid history is repeating itself again... taking another turn in the spiral.
      1. +19
        18 September 2023 07: 17
        But where can we find Bolsheviks now? And even the caliber of Lenin and Stalin? Alas, the distant Red Army will no longer gallop...
        1. +6
          18 September 2023 10: 57
          Quote: paul3390
          But where can we find Bolsheviks now?

          The Vlasov-Bandera confrontation is gradually creating the Bolsheviks.
        2. -1
          19 September 2023 23: 09
          “The British created “death camps” in the North, killing thousands of Russian people.”

          We urgently need to prepare thousands. No, tens of thousands of Sarmatians with nuclear warheads. Are shells with depleted uranium being imported to Ukraine?
          1. 0
            4 February 2024 20: 26
            Do you know how much one Sarmat costs? Where will you find the money? Will you take away the last from hospitals and pensioners? Do you understand what a thousand Sarmatians are?!
    2. +8
      18 September 2023 04: 34
      Quote: ROSS 42
      why does no one want to talk about those interventionists who in the 90s allowed the collapse and plunder of a great country

      These are not interventionists - they are shifters and worms who were corrupting the country from the inside. Then they attacked her from all sides synomyia mortuorum and they are still feeding...
    3. +1
      18 September 2023 06: 02
      The origins of the collapse of the 90s must be sought back in 1965, when the economic reforms of Kosygin and Lieberman were carried out. It was then that elements of capitalism were introduced, which ultimately became disastrous for the Soviet economy.
      1. +3
        18 September 2023 07: 14
        Quote: Glock-17
        in 1965 when the economic reforms of Kosygin and Lieberman were carried out

        You are wrong. They were not carried out. They were only talked about. And they were chatted...
        1. +6
          18 September 2023 07: 24
          Not really. Conducted. And the main striking factor was the introduction of gross profit as the main parameter. Instead of the previous standard indicators. From now on, enterprises were interested primarily in profit, and therefore in increasing prices for their products. Which went completely against the basic principles of the Stalinist socialist economy. It was from this moment that everything went to the ditch.
          1. +6
            18 September 2023 07: 57
            And the main striking factor was the introduction of gross profit as the main parameter. Instead of the previous standard indicators. From now on, enterprises were interested primarily in profit, and therefore in increasing prices for their products
            That's right, this reform triggered the collapse of the country. Perhaps in 1965 it was relevant for a while, like the NEP once was, but then a return to the Stalinist version and its development was necessary. However, Brezhnev did not agree to this.
            1. Fat
              +7
              18 September 2023 11: 31
              Quote: Aviator_
              That's right, this reform triggered the collapse of the country. Perhaps in 1965 it was relevant for a while, like the NEP once was, but then a return to the Stalinist version and its development was necessary. However, Brezhnev did not agree to this.

              Greetings, Sergey. I didn't understand the emphasis on the 1965 reform
              Under Stalin, there were more than 114 thousand artels in the country, which were engaged in metalworking, woodworking, jewelry, and served as a supplement for the food, chemical and textile industries. There were artels in the high-tech sector. In total, about two million people were employed in this activity. Their contribution to the country's gross production was about 6%. In general, the Stalinist economy could well be called multi-structured. Khrushchev buried this matter in 1955 and, it seems, for good. An attempt to transfer state-owned enterprises to self-financing in 1965 partially failed, but chatter about “self-financing and self-sufficiency” continued until the end of the USSR. No neo-NEP happened; this is impossible with a complete state monopoly. Ersatz artels, production cooperatives, simply could not work under Gorbachev due to the state monopoly on raw materials and components, and the “criminal” niche was occupied by “guild workers”.
              1. +4
                18 September 2023 18: 27
                Hello, Andrey. Yes, small enterprises in the form of artels existed until their liquidation by Khrushchev Kukuruzny. They quite successfully complemented the main state enterprises. But Trotskyism lies in the fact that the laws of social development are never taken into account, it is simply - here it is written in the book - this is how it should be done. Khrushchev burned out on this - we must try to eliminate the subsidiary farms of collective farmers and artels (cooperatives) so that everyone gets hooked on state structures. Will government agencies stand it if collective farmers go to the store to buy potatoes? At the same time, he also created a mess on the party issue - he divided the regional and district committees into rural and industrial ones? In addition, he also multiplied the party bureaucrats, at least twice as many. For such deeds he should have been hanged on the Execution Ground on Red Square, but he lived to an old age, passing on his memoirs abroad.
                1. Fat
                  +3
                  18 September 2023 18: 49
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  This is where I got burned - we need to try to eliminate the subsidiary farms of collective farmers and artels (cooperatives) so that everyone gets hooked on state structures. Will government agencies stand it if collective farmers go to the store to buy potatoes?

                  And keep quiet!...
                  I believe that diversity, for a social, and ultimately a Socialist State, should be a reasonably balanced norm. This is us in our ambiguous... we have what we have smile
                  Oh, what successes there would be if OGAS stood in time on the path of attributions and abuses on a national scale....
              2. -1
                18 September 2023 18: 30
                Under Stalin, there were more than 114 thousand artels in the country


                Almost an order of magnitude less.
                But most importantly, the artels actually had no independence from the word at all.
                The salary fund was regulated by the Ministry of Finance, all resources and funds were allocated by government agencies based on the preliminary decision of the State Planning Committee. The plan for their release was also launched by the State Planning Committee.

                https://aif.by/timefree/history/biznes_po-stalinski_kto_v_sssr_mog_za_god_chestno_zarabotat_na_kvartiru
                ...when industrialization began in 1929, the Bolshevik state decided to take control of the cooperators. “All artels were required to join industry unions, submit financial reports and calculate salaries according to the tariff directory...

                ...By the early 1950s. in the USSR there were 12 fishing cooperatives engaged in production and producing 660 thousand types of products. They employed 33 million people. But to say that they acted on the basis of entrepreneurial initiative is not even a stretch. “The state set prices for the goods of artels and gave them tasks – what products and in what quantities to produce...
                ...an eloquent fact: in the pre-war period, as many as 6 decrees were issued on the prices of wooden spoons that artel workers cut for the army...
                1. Fat
                  -1
                  19 September 2023 11: 26
                  It never occurred to you that the State Planning Assignment and tariffs are measures to protect the Industry, for example, from sales problems! Produce is not enough! need to make a profit!
                  Haven't you read Marx? It’s obvious that you know “nothing” about trading....
                  1. +2
                    19 September 2023 11: 58
                    It never occurred to you that the State Planning Assignment and tariffication are measures to protect the Industry


                    I lived under socialism and know very well what a deficit is. And I also saw all the problems of sales in the USSR. The product of a planned economy, regulated prices and the State Planning Committee.
                    But an artel or state-owned enterprise will receive a plan for sales, prices and wages from above - the difference here is small.

                    Haven't you read Marx?


                    Of course I read and even took notes, all 5 years at the military school.
                    1. Fat
                      0
                      19 September 2023 19: 37
                      Quote from: dump22
                      the difference here is small.

                      Great difference! During the USSR, I went to buy meat at Cooptorg, which was a little more expensive than the state trade orders, but at least I got my fill of the whole premium!
                      1. +2
                        19 September 2023 20: 05
                        where was it so good? Somehow I never came across a co-op trade with meat on my way.
                      2. Fat
                        +1
                        19 September 2023 20: 46
                        It was in Izhevsk! The co-op trading stalls at the market were in full operation. But the central store of Cooptorg Izhevsk


                        I loaded in the last one!
                      3. 0
                        21 September 2023 17: 39
                        In Votkinsk, too, there were no problems with meat and other products, as the elders say. Everything was at the market, in stores.
              3. +2
                19 September 2023 09: 06
                Under Stalin, there were more than 114 thousand artels in the country

                Much more. Because a collective farm is essentially the same artel, only in agriculture.
          2. +1
            18 September 2023 08: 04
            Quote: paul3390
            Not really. Conducted

            It seems that Kosygin said about this reform that she was torpedoed in the Central Committee and everything went to waste. I don’t remember it verbatim, but something close to the text. In a word, they started it, and then let it go...
            1. +2
              18 September 2023 10: 15
              Because the Central Committee was not just filled with stupid functionaries. Someone apparently understood what exactly this type of reform was intended to accomplish.
      2. +2
        18 September 2023 08: 15
        It was started, but stopped by the end of the 60s. Nevertheless, the beginning of the fifth column was made.
        1. Fat
          +5
          18 September 2023 11: 45
          hi
          Quote: Glock-17
          It was started, but stopped by the end of the 60s. Nevertheless, the beginning of the fifth column was made.

          IMHO the beginning of the fifth column was laid by the innovations of N.S. Khrushchev, who made party functionaries practically inaccessible to law enforcement and state security agencies.
          1. +4
            18 September 2023 18: 29
            The beginning of the fifth column was laid by the innovations of N.S. Khrushchev, who made party functionaries practically inaccessible to law enforcement and state security agencies.
            Absolutely right, the party has not been cleansed since 1953, and so the generation grew up that betrayed everything.
    4. 0
      18 September 2023 13: 53
      which only Shpakovsky remembers
      Please tell me the full name of who you mentioned at the beginning. It’s interesting for personal reasons, the family is large, it’s physically impossible to know everyone. By the way, all the Shpakovsky relatives, the only question is the distance of the relationship.
  2. +12
    18 September 2023 04: 12
    This historical fact is known to everyone, but is persistently distorted by the modern liberal government of Russia. After all, the younger generation is stubbornly hammered into their heads that the Bolsheviks just destroyed Great Russia.
    1. Fat
      +2
      18 September 2023 11: 55
      Quote: freddyk
      After all, the younger generation is stubbornly hammered into their heads that the Bolsheviks just destroyed Great Russia.

      hi Alexander. The idea of ​​historical continuity from the Russian Tsardom to the Russian Empire to the USSR and to the Russian Federation is hammered into the minds of the younger generation. As you can see, without much success, since even you deny it.
      But the idea of ​​historical continuity was given life by I.V. Stalin during the war.
  3. +10
    18 September 2023 04: 14
    The Bolsheviks saved Russia

    Defeated chieftains,
    Dispersed governor
    And in the Pacific
    We've finished our hike!
  4. +9
    18 September 2023 05: 23
    Russia has not yet presented an account for this robbery and occupation.
    Russia paid off the royal debt, which the Bolsheviks did not recognize. Where should it send the bills? smile
    1. +7
      18 September 2023 08: 49
      At a conference in 1922, Western countries filed a claim against the Bolsheviks that they had to pay Nicholas II’s debt of 18 billion rubles, but the Bolsheviks filed a counterclaim for damage from the intervention - more than 30 billion rubles, and the Western countries shut up.
  5. +4
    18 September 2023 05: 54
    keep turning and turning around the past incident of Russia’s death, and list those vultures who were already tearing apart her barely breathing, barely alive body. But when you get up the courage to write about the last case, when they still tore away from Russia what could not be torn away then and now, the borders of Russia have been thrown back 400 years ago, with 20 Russians and Russian-speaking people abandoned there, people who love Russia and are loyal to it. By the way, those who killed Russia in 000-000 are no longer alive, and those who did the same and did from 1905 to 1923, many of them are now healthy and, together with the vultures from the West, are pecking at the deceased imperial body, and those who died, monuments are built in their honor, ships are named after them and centers are created in their name. I write “until 1985” because Putin is, of course, not Stalin who then raised the Empire from the dead, but the first sign of a new Sunday today, with hope, must be counted from the date of the return of Crimea to Russia in 2014. And if God really protects Russia, then after Putin he will send Russia a new Stalin and the Empire will be recreated within the borders of the USSR in 2014. And the more often there are conscientious articles about the last destroyers of the Empire, the greater the hope for the emergence of a new Stalin. God loves those who tell the truth about themselves.
    As for the Bolsheviks, namely the Bolsheviks, they were the force that helped Stalin then resurrect the Empire and prevent Russia from perishing. Well, what did the communists do then from Khrushchev to Yeltsin, all the more so we need to write about it every day...
    1. -1
      18 September 2023 06: 21
      Quote: north 2
      what the communists did

      Stalin died in 1953. What remained from him were Bolsheviks devoted to his cause. In 1956, exactly THREE years later, Stalin’s Bolsheviks were no longer left, they were replaced by Khrushchev’s communists. This is your logic. But at the XNUMXth Congress, neither the “Marshals of Victory”, nor the “Stalinist People’s Commissars”, no one, including ordinary delegates from the field, stood up and said “Nikita, you’re wrong.” What an exceptionally quick rebirth, eh? Simply amazing. EVERYONE remained silent, even the aircraft designer Yakovlev, who was favored by Stalin. And others with him... They weren’t afraid of the Germans, but here they were afraid of whom or what? Such changes in the minds of high-ranking leaders of the country never happen “just like that,” especially at the will of such a person as Khrushchev. This means that they were morally prepared to have their idol trampled underfoot with their silent consent. And what kind of Bolsheviks are they after this? They are... "Stalinist communists"!
      1. +2
        18 September 2023 06: 47
        That's for sure.... Yes... There was once a discussion with Shpakovsky about who is to blame for the crucifixion of Christ?
        So he convinced that Christ himself. Not Judas......

        What kind of communists are they if they didn’t want to protect us, the poor orphans, at the cost of their lives?
        Those bastards......
        They had to!!!!
        After all, we ourselves understand that our brains are inside out and we cannot protect ourselves...
        Someone else is always obliged to give their life for our interests. There must be such special ideological idiots for this... laughing
        1. +1
          18 September 2023 17: 20
          Quote: ivan2022
          So he convinced that Christ himself

          Ivan! This is a dogma of the Christian faith. Christ sacrificed himself, knowing about his sad end. He is part of the Holy Trinity: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and is gifted with omniscience!
        2. Fat
          0
          18 September 2023 17: 47
          Quote: ivan2022
          There must be such special ideological idiots for this

          Quote: ivan2022
          What kind of communists are they if they didn’t want to protect us, the poor orphans, at the cost of their lives?
          Those bastards......

          Ivan, are you sure that it’s just “bwana”
          I don't have the right to send you to more serious racial showdowns?
          Quote: ivan2022
          and someone else is always obliged to give their life to our interests. There must be special ideological idiots for this.

          Quote: ivan2022
          That's for sure.... Yes... There was once a discussion with Shpakovsky about who is to blame for the crucifixion of Christ?
          So he convinced that Christ himself. Not Judas......
          What kind of communists are they if they didn’t want to protect us, the poor orphans, at the cost of their lives?
          Those bastards......
          They had to!!!!
          After all, we ourselves understand that our brains are inside out and we cannot protect ourselves...
          Someone else is always obliged to give their life for our interests. There must be such special ideological idiots for this... laughing

          Why don't you, Ivan, "score" a place among the victims?
          Quote: ivan2022
          special ideological idiots

          My friends can easily explain to special idiots...
          Where is Hare and where is Krishna!
          PS. I believe that all beliefs have the right to exist, to the extent that one belief does not become an obstacle to another....
      2. -2
        18 September 2023 07: 11
        Quote: kalibr
        They.

        One... the word forbidden in VO, meaning the last stage of mental degradation, has already been given a minus. AND AFTER HIM HISTORY CHANGED! At the XNUMXth Congress, Marshal Zhukov stood up and said loudly, interrupting Khrushchev’s speech: “Nikita, you are wrong in criticizing Stalin!” Let's see, maybe with each new minus history will continue to change and we will all end up in the USSR again?
        1. 0
          18 September 2023 09: 41
          One... a word forbidden in VO, meaning the last stage of mental degradation
          Judging by your comments to the article, you are also deteriorating mentally and there is no need to be offended. hi
          1. +1
            18 September 2023 11: 41
            Quote: kor1vet1974
            Judging by your comments to the article, you are also deteriorating mentally and there is no need to be offended.

            Cornelius! No one responded to my comment in substance. Why be offended? On the disadvantages of anonymous people? Are you seriously?
      3. +1
        18 September 2023 07: 11
        Quote: kalibr
        aircraft designer Yakovlev, favored by Stalin. And others with him

        Yakovlev, although favored by Stalin, was a good engineer and made equally good cars. About otherThat with ny I won’t say, but I know one thing - these are intelligent and knowledgeable people with a very high capacity for work, however, like all the people whom Stalin promoted to party and economic posts. In a word, Stalin’s praise is the highest recognition of a person’s merits...
        1. +2
          18 September 2023 11: 43
          Quote: Luminman
          Quote: kalibr
          aircraft designer Yakovlev, favored by Stalin. And others with him

          Yakovlev, although favored by Stalin, was a good engineer and made equally good cars. About otherThat with ny I won’t say, but I know one thing - these are intelligent and knowledgeable people with a very high capacity for work, however, like all the people whom Stalin promoted to party and economic posts. In a word, Stalin’s praise is the highest recognition of a person’s merits...

          And what did this man, who was awarded the highest praise at the XNUMXth Congress, put water into his mouth?
          1. +1
            18 September 2023 14: 23
            Quote: kalibr
            And what did this man, who was awarded the highest praise at the XNUMXth Congress, put water into his mouth?

            It is not in the nature of an engineer, even one of Yakovlev’s stature, to scold or defend the country’s leaders. Do you know this proverb - every cricket knows its nest? So this is about him. But Molotov, Kaganovich, Malenkov and you know who joined them didn’t get enough water in their mouths...
            1. +1
              18 September 2023 17: 21
              Quote: Luminman
              But Molotov, Kaganovich, Malenkov and you know who joined them didn’t get enough water in their mouths...

              At the convention?
              1. +1
                18 September 2023 17: 37
                Quote: kalibr
                At the convention?

                Not at the congress, but a little later. What's the difference?
              2. Fat
                +1
                18 September 2023 19: 08
                Shipilov. Wait, what congress? Quiet For the family... laughing
            2. 0
              18 September 2023 17: 22
              Quote: Luminman
              It’s not my nature to scold or defend the country’s leaders.

              Well, of course, but he traded party integrity for rank. As a result, one remained silent, the other did not bother, and no one objected to Nikita.
              1. +2
                18 September 2023 17: 40
                Quote: kalibr
                Well, of course, but he traded party integrity for rank...
                ...so no one objected to Nikita.

                Party integrity also has its limits... Those who stood objected according to the table of ranks approximately the same - in the Politburo and the Central Committee. This is how our government works...
                1. +1
                  18 September 2023 17: 57
                  Quote: Luminman
                  Party adherence to principles also has its limits... Those who stood on the table of ranks about the same - in the Politburo and the Central Committee - objected. This is how our government works...

                  Everything is true, but this only means that there were no communists there.
                2. +1
                  19 September 2023 11: 08
                  Quote: Luminman
                  Party adherence to principles also has its limits... Those who stood on the table of ranks about the same - in the Politburo and the Central Committee - objected. This is how our government works...

                  Then what are the constant complaints against me? Am I much lower than all these characters? But for some reason they demand it from me, huh?
      4. +3
        18 September 2023 09: 38
        Tell me, is it normal for the entire European social democracy to degenerate by 1914, when almost everyone, except Serbian and Bulgarian, voted for war? How do you explain the degeneration of the generation of the 40s, 50s, 60s, Soviet citizens who joined the CPSU, and then in the 90s, in front of citizens, burned party cards, and some in the American Congress swore by their mother ,fight communism? Are they also “Stalinist communists”?
        1. Fat
          +1
          18 September 2023 12: 20
          Quote: kor1vet1974
          Are they also “Stalinist communists”?

          hi Cornelius. These are "Khrushchev communists"! First, Khrushchev removed the CPSU functionaries from the control of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the KGB, leaving only the “audit commission” under the Central Committee. Then he pardoned former members of the OUN-UPA, who, with the support of the CIA and other Western intelligence agencies, began to promote their offspring into the CPSU. These made a career in the party while always remaining its enemies...
          1. +1
            18 September 2023 12: 38
            I am writing about a trend, a global one, and not a private one. Stalin's Khrushchev's communists, what nonsense. During the period of those admitted to the party from 1917 to 1989, how many millions actually owned the Marxist-Leninist theory at the time of joining, perhaps one can name here by name. And those who developed it? And there are no such people, except for I.V. Stalin, the PSS is impressive, N.S. Khrushchev, just left a collection of speeches, L.I. Brezhnev’s memoirs in three books... Many people have made a career in the party, since 1917, when they realized where the wind blows.. Trotsky, joined the Bolsheviks in 1917, but hesitated from 1902
            1. Fat
              +1
              18 September 2023 15: 57
              Quote: kor1vet1974
              I'm writing about a trend

              Well... I'm talking about facts that require analysis, and you're talking about trends. Overall indifferent. After the war, the state focused on restoring the normal functioning of the economy and, in general terms, the USSR achieved a lot. The first to abandon cards was on December 4, 1947 in the USSR, the Resolution “On carrying out monetary reform and the abolition of cards for food and industrial goods” was adopted.
              And, especially about Trotsky, we’ll talk later, when the opportunity arises, but for now, accumulate facts and artifacts
              1. +2
                18 September 2023 19: 14
                Quote: Thick
                The first to abandon cards was on December 4, 1947 in the USSR, the Resolution “On carrying out monetary reform and the abolition of cards for food and industrial goods” was adopted.

                These are the memoirs of the Arkhangelsk regional head of the financial department A.I. Yakovlev, recorded by him in 1983: “I already received a 45% bonus to my basic salary for my length of service. By the beginning of 1946, I was already receiving a salary with bonuses of 1005 rubles. It would seem like a lot of money, but little of it was left to support the family. I had to pay a monthly loan of 150 rubles, a military tax of 120 rubles, an income tax of 80 rubles, a military tax for myself and my wife of 900 rubles for agriculture in three terms, an agricultural tax on an estate (0,10 hectares) of 180 rubles to be paid in three terms. , insurance payments for sowing a garden, a cow and a house are 128 rubles, and the hardest and most terrible thing is to pay, if you have a cow, for 40 kg of meat, 360 kg of milk, one piece of hide, 120 kg of potatoes, 30 pieces of eggs.

                You can’t separate the meat from a cow, you had to buy it for 12 rubles. 50 kopecks kilogram on the side (520 rubles) and 2 rubles each. for an egg (60 rubles), for raw hides you also have to pay someone in money. Milk and potatoes had to be taken away from the family. Of the salary received, no more than 300 rubles remained to support the family, with which it was possible to buy on the side, and only through an acquaintance, only 6 kg of rye flour.

                What can be made from it for a family of five? Under the existing rationing system, for this family I received only 900 g of baked semi-oat bread per day. In February 1946, my mother returned from the occupation, and the family grew. Everything that he and his wife had from clothes and shoes was exchanged for bread so that the family would not go hungry. During the war, household plots were depleted, the harvest of potatoes and vegetables was negligible, since the garden was dug by hand, and if plowed, it was with bulls and only once before planting, which is why bread on the side rose in price to 1000 rubles per pood , and potatoes - up to 400 rubles. These products could only be bought from collective farm leaders (chairmen, foremen, storekeepers) or exchanged with them for valuables. In 1947 (December) a monetary reform was carried out. All funds were coded 10 rubles to one, and all bonds issued before 1947 were exchanged three rubles to one. Personally, I had pre-war and war loans worth 12 thousand rubles, which I had to exchange for a two percent loan in 1948 and receive 3600 rubles in exchange.”
      5. +4
        18 September 2023 13: 18
        Quote: kalibr
        But at the XNUMXth Congress, neither the “Marshals of Victory”, nor the “Stalinist People’s Commissars”, no one, including ordinary delegates from the field, stood up and said “Nikita, you’re wrong.” What an exceptionally quick rebirth, eh? Simply amazing

        For a candidate on the history of the CPSU, you are exaggerating too much, exaggerating the colors, not to be understood consciously or out of ignorance, although due to the type of activity in the regional structures of the CPSU, they should familiarize themselves with the notes of F. Chuev, and how a product ... that is, a propagandist, explain in his lectures this question. This is how Molotov and Kaganovich themselves, who disagreed with Khrushchev’s report, explained the reasons for their silence.
        At the XNUMXth Congress, Khrushchev selected a composition that shouted “hurray!” to him.
        ...Then I thought about it for a long time, from different angles. The party was not ready for this [to oppose Khrushchev]. We would have simply been kicked out. I hoped that by remaining in the party we would gradually improve the situation. And then it would have been unexpected; if we had stood up, no one would have supported us. No, no one. I had to prepare a little.
        I believe that in the situation that existed then, if we, even I, had expressed such views, we would have easily been expelled. This would cause, at least in some sections of the party, a split. And the split could be very deep. Here Tevosyan, the then Minister of Ferrous Metallurgy, he shouted to me: “How is this so? How come?" He's a Stalinist, yes. The same goes for Yudin, ambassador to China. The two of them came to me at the congress.
        ...The danger was that in our group, which was quite varied in its attitudes, in fact, a split could occur, which did not promise anything good, since the matter for the party as a whole was unprepared.
        Kaganovich
        Maybe it was our mistake. They didn’t want to split the congress. Because of our desire for unity, we did not want to split the congress.
        The career of Molotov Kaganovich himself by March 1953. was far from at its zenith. For the press, they remained the second people in the state, but in fact they had been in disgrace with Stalin for several years.
        In recent years, Stalin made mistakes in assessing people. He brought Khrushchev, Malenkov and Beria closer to him, and pushed Molotov, Kaganovich and Voroshilov aside... Stalin pushed us aside and underestimated us, but it was we, as strange as it may even seem, both I and Molotov who turned out to be the strongest. It was he, of course, who made a mistake. It's a pity
        Khrushchev then wrote: they suggested that I make a report. He's the one lying. He himself said: “I will make a report.”
        They objected. I objected, Molotov, Voroshilov. I won’t say that we actively opposed... It was impossible. The facts were there, the facts are there, the congress awaits. He writes untruthfully that Molotov and Voroshilov did not object, but Kaganovich objected. But they didn’t actively decide, it’s impossible. Maybe it was our mistake.
        Reading the books of Felix Chuev, one gets the impression that Molotov and Kaganovich underestimated the possible consequences of Khrushchev’s report. Although they did not agree with Stalin’s criticism, they did not consider it too dangerous. Yes, it’s unfair to Stalin, but Stalin didn’t live for himself, but for the cause, and the cause is alive! The USSR is still the USSR, faithful to the ideas of Marx-Engels-Lenin, as if nothing terrible had happened. They assessed Khrushchev’s activities extremely negatively, but at the same time they did not see a threat to the existence of the USSR. It seems that at that time they did not understand that behind the criticism of Stalin there was much more hidden than criticism of one specific person. This was a rejection of the entire Stalinist legacy, it was the beginning of a 180-degree turn around the entire state policy. Stalin's legacy is the foundation of the USSR. It is impossible to build a building high, but at the same time destroy the foundation - sooner or later everything will collapse, which is what happened later. This is what the full-time ... propagandist kept silent in his lectures, reducing it to a simple thing, as the party in the person of Khrushchev ordered, so they did. Now they really started to say things differently.. “we’re not like that, life is like that”
        1. 0
          18 September 2023 17: 29
          Quote: Unknown
          It seems they didn't understand at the time

          What stupid people we had in power back then, don’t you think? You see, they didn’t want to split the congress... And Zhukov didn’t want to either? And all the other delegates? They didn’t want to split the congress, but in the end they split the country!
          1. +3
            18 September 2023 18: 33
            Quote: kalibr
            What stupid people we had in power back then, don’t you think? You see, they didn’t want to split the congress... And Zhukov didn’t want to either? And all the other delegates? They didn’t want to split the congress, but in the end they split the country!

            And what, there was no split in the history of the CPSU (b)? Or factionalism? How the country was tossed around by different “currents”, “platforms”, “deviations”. The year 1937 happened partly because of such party tricks. The memory of those times was still fresh. And Zhukov, he was still a leader, kept his nose to the wind, just like you, by the way. Rokossovsky did not support Khrushchev in denouncing I.V. Stalin, nor did Air Marshal A.E. Golovanov, which cost both of them their positions. And throughout the country, many communists couldn’t stand the corn grower after the 80th Congress. Back in the XNUMXs, I worked with veterans who, when his name was mentioned, spat, uttering unprinted words. So there could easily have been a split. As for the split of the country, who would speak, but not YOU. Here's more on the topic
            However, what caused the most noise was the meeting of the party organization of the Thermotechnical Laboratory of the USSR Academy of Sciences, at which young employees R.G. Avalov, Yu.F. Orlov, V.E. Nesterov and G.I. Shchedrin stated that power in the country had been usurped by a “bunch of scoundrels”, the party was permeated with the spirit of slavery, opportunism and sycophancy, and “the most radical measure of eliminating the harmful phenomena of our life can be the arming of the people”5
            Fearing that the situation would get out of control, on April 5, 1956, the Presidium of the CPSU Central Committee adopted a resolution “On hostile attacks at the meeting of the party organization of the Heat Engineering Laboratory of the USSR Academy of Sciences following the results of the 6th Congress of the CPSU.” In accordance with it, four laboratory employees were expelled from the party, and the party organization of the laboratory was reorganizedXNUMX. This decision of the Presidium was indicative and outlined the line to limit criticism of Stalinism
            How could you, working in the district committee, not know all this?
            1. +1
              19 September 2023 11: 12
              Quote: Unknown
              How could you, working in the district committee, not know all this?

              I never worked for a day in the district committee. He worked as a teacher at the institute. The district committee invited people to give lectures to workers... It was an honorable duty. And I understand you, what Zhukov can do, I can’t. Excellent discussion about a perfect society.
            2. +1
              19 September 2023 11: 13
              Quote: Unknown
              As for the split of the country, who would speak, but not YOU

              Why can't I?
          2. +1
            19 September 2023 17: 07
            There is no need to attribute your own shortcomings to other people.
    2. +4
      18 September 2023 07: 09
      Quote: north 2
      As for the Bolsheviks, namely the Bolsheviks, they were the force that helped Stalin then resurrect the Empire and prevent Russia from perishing.

      By what definition do you have, the USSR suddenly became an Empire?
      Modern political science considers the Empire (Latin imperium - power, domination) as “1) a monarchical state headed by the emperor; 2) a state with a complex structure, consisting of a metropolis (Greek meter - mother and polis - city) - the central part of the state and colonies (Latin, colonia - settlement), subordinate to the central government of states (for example, the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Russian empire)".

      There were no colonies in the USSR; on the contrary, the Soviet government invested in the development of the republics that were part of the Union, for which the current “imperials” revile it. The USSR was a state of a new type based on equality, without exploiters and exploited.
      Quote: North 2
      Well, what did the communists do then from Khrushchev to Yeltsin?

      The presence of a party card in a high-ranking position did not mean that the holder of it was an adherent of the ideas of Marxism-Leninism. This was clearly expressed in the late 80s, when apologists for anti-communism in the CPSU exceeded a critical mass.
      Stalin's purge of the ranks was abandoned at the 20th Congress, which ultimately led to humpback perestroika and the transformation of the “empire” into 15 colonies.
    3. +2
      18 September 2023 08: 54
      With all the negative attitude towards Khrushchev, we must still separate him from the murderers of the USSR Gorbachev and Yeltsin and all the other enemies of the communists who, for the sake of profit and career, climbed into the CPSU, and during their Perestroika immediately proved their hatred of the communists, the USSR and the Soviet people .
      1. Fat
        0
        18 September 2023 15: 41
        hi Irina
        There is no need to separate it. It was Khrushchev who gave the start to party lawlessness in management and strangled all the prerequisites for controlling the economy with the network of OGAS and the Unified Information Center of the Computer Center for Kitov. Enemy! who opposed OGAS?
        Right! CSB and Gosplan!
        The goal of any bureaucratic apparatus is not “The Beautiful is Far Away,” but the struggle to justify its own existence. And these strangled the wonderful plan to “overtake America without catching up”
        Therefore, already in the 70s I was working with all my might, not OGAS of the USSR, but ARPANET of the USA....
        Unfortunately. Khrushchev is a product of the system of clan internal political intrigues of the CPSU and thanks to his peasant instincts and apparatus experience, he “made” his original allies and became 1st secretary... He was resisted but all discussions were suppressed!
        The anti-party group of Malenkov, Kaganovich, Molotov and Shepilov, who joined them, is a political cliché officially used in the Soviet press to designate a group of three senior party leaders of the CPSU who tried in June 1957 to remove N. S. Khrushchev from the post of First Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee. The group was also supported by other members of the party leadership, in particular, candidate member of the Presidium of the Central Committee D. T. Shepilov, who expressed personal complaints against N. S. Khrushchev
        Irina! Study the "materiel parts". I largely agree with your position. But your knowledge needs improvement.
        With respect.
    4. -1
      18 September 2023 16: 54
      The communists built the country, but the anti-Soviet Trotskyists destroyed it.
      1. Fat
        +1
        18 September 2023 17: 12
        You simplify it to the point of complete impossibility.
        Quote: UrraletZ
        The communists built the country, but the anti-Soviet Trotskyists destroyed it.

        And who actually had any idea what a Socialist country should be like surrounded by enemy countries - capitalists? Stalin's concept worked in relation to the global crisis. Who knows how Trotsky's concept would have worked.
        Shall we spread out the tarot cards? wassat drinks
  6. +9
    18 September 2023 06: 19
    The head of the military ministry in the government of Alexander Kolchak, Lieutenant General Alexei Budberg, wrote:
    Now the Czechs are dragging around 600 loaded wagons, very carefully guarded... according to counterintelligence data, these wagons are filled with cars, machine tools, valuable metals, paintings, various valuable furniture and utensils, and other goods collected in the Urals and Siberia

    Kolchak's general Konstantin Sakharov quoted the newspaper Delo Rossii, who wrote in 1920:
    Moving to the rear, the Czechs began to gather their military booty there. The latter amazed not only with its quantity, but also with its diversity. What, what did the Czechs not have? Their warehouses were bursting with a huge amount of Russian uniforms, weapons, cloth, food supplies and shoes. Not content with requisitioning state warehouses and state property, the Czechs began to take everything they could get their hands on, completely disregarding who owned the property. Metals, various kinds of raw materials, valuable machines, and thoroughbred horses were declared war booty by the Czechs. They took medicines alone worth over three million gold rubles, rubber worth 40 million rubles, a huge amount of copper was taken out of the Tyumen district, etc. The Czechs did not hesitate to declare even the library and laboratory of Perm University their prize. The exact amount of loot by the Czechs cannot even be counted. According to the most conservative estimate, this kind of indemnity cost the Russian people many hundreds of millions of rubles and significantly exceeded the indemnity imposed by the Prussians on France in 1871. Part of this booty became the subject of open purchase and sale and was put on the market at inflated prices, part was immersed in wagons and intended for shipment to the Czech Republic

    In the summer of 1920, the last of 42 Czechoslovak transports set out to sea from Vladivostok, on which 72644 legionnaires, 1726 their Russian wives, 717 children, 4914 disabled people, as well as Russian officers, politicians, and public figures who had joined the corps, left Russia along with their looted property. local figures and members of their families.
    Particularly scandalous was the dispatch from Vladivostok of the steamer Legia, on which the Czechoslovaks took out 3 million gold rubles of government property of the White Army. The White Guards indignantly published in newspapers an incomplete list of government cargo transported on the Legia:
    • braids - 65.000 pieces;
    • horseshoes - 5.376 pounds;
    • plantar leather - 2.900 pounds;
    • medicines – 10.000 – zl. rub.;
    • Berthollet salt - 3.000 pud.;
    • rubber rings - 80.000 grains;
    • cross saws - 300 pieces;
    • reapers — 38 pieces;
    • sheaves - 50 pieces;
    • plows - 50 pieces;
    • tea - 8.470 poods;
    • motors — 5 pcs.
    Those. The Czechs exported everything they could get their hands on. Here it is necessary to explain that Rubber at that time was the scarcest strategic material, costing much more than gold, so its accounting was carried out in grains. 80000 grains is approximately 4,96 kg.
    In addition, according to the principle “Vaska the cat listens and eats”, to the furious cries of the military and civilian White Guard authorities, the Czechoslovaks, with impudent impunity, loaded onto the “Legia” and took out state-owned soap, pepper, candles, white underwear, notebooks, etc., and so on. Most of all, the White Guards were outraged by the export of the most scarce medicines by the Czechoslovaks, which doomed countless sick and wounded to death.
    In gratitude for this, modern Russia erects monuments to the Czechs:

    Democracy in action. Czechs against the background of those executed.


    A rally of two hundred thousand Czechs on Wenceslas Square in Prague on July 3, 1942. At this rally, residents of the Protectorate fervently expressed their loyalty and support for the Third Reich. This is one of the largest gatherings in the history of this square.


    The central part of the memorial composition in honor of the Czech punitive forces in Chelyabinsk. Isn't it touching?
    1. +4
      18 September 2023 08: 04
      Quote: Old electrician
      the steamship "Legia" on which the Czechoslovaks took out government property of the White Army worth 3 million gold rubles. The White Guards indignantly published in newspapers an incomplete list of government cargo transported on the Legia:
      • braids - 65.000 pieces;
      • horseshoes - 5.376 pounds;
      • plantar leather - 2.900 pounds;
      • medicines – 10.000 – zl. rub.;
      • Berthollet salt - 3.000 pud.;
      • rubber rings - 80.000 grains;
      • cross saws - 300 pieces;
      • reapers — 38 pieces;
      • sheaves - 50 pieces;
      • plows - 50 pieces;
      • tea - 8.470 poods;
      • motors — 5 pcs.
      Those. The Czechs exported everything they could get their hands on. Here it is necessary to explain that Rubber at that time was the scarcest strategic material, costing much more than gold, so its accounting was carried out in grains. 80000 grains is approximately 4,96 kg.
      In addition, according to the principle “Vaska the cat listens and eats”, under the enraged cries of the military and civilian White Guard authorities, the Czechoslovaks with impunity loaded the Legia and took away government soap, pepper, candles, white underwear, notebooks, etc., etc.

      The anger of the whites is understandable - they were honestly taken away lol loot..
      But a banal calculator says that only in the weight part (what is calculated in pounds) the Legia comes out to about 350 tons. Taking into account the fact that everything listed is quite voluminous, there would obviously be no room left for the legionnaires themselves....
      Moreover -72466 people crammed into 42 ships gives 1800 belay belay man on board.....
      There was physically no place to load the binders there.
      Not only that, this entire horde had to be fed and watered all the way, that is, there was still room for provisions...
      Quote: Old electrician
      taken out government property White Army

      Quote: Old electrician
      headers - 38 pcs.;
      • sheaves - 50 pieces;
      • plows - 50 pieces;
      - clean army crying property, what's up

      Therefore, everything is much simpler and clearer - leaders white just stupid sold everything they could get their hands on and piled up lol on the Czechs.
      How else can we cover the shortfalls???
      “Everything has already been stolen before us” (c)
      1. +1
        18 September 2023 17: 08
        The anger of the Whites is understandable - they were robbed of their honestly stolen goods...
        But a commonplace calculator says that in terms of weight alone (what is calculated in pounds) Legia comes out to about 350 tons. Taking into account the fact that everything listed is quite voluminous, there would clearly be no room left for the legionnaires themselves....
        Moreover, 72466 people crammed into 42 ships give 1800 people on board...
        There was physically no place to load the binders there.
        Not only that, this entire horde had to be fed and watered all the way, that is, there was still room for provisions...

        Should this be understood to mean that you stood up for the good name of the Czechoslovak legionnaires? Now this is a trend in a new reading of history. I have shown a photo of Czechoslovaks against the background of those executed. In the new story it turns out:
        The photo shows the killed of the 8th regiment, who became the subject of a study by the international medical commission. It is noted that in 17 cases it was no longer possible to definitely establish whether the injuries were inflicted during life or after death, but in 3 they showed signs of terrible atrocity (tongues were cut out, faces were punctured, arms and legs were broken, one of the Czechoslovaks was tied with windings to a board and strangled), produced during life. The funerals of the deceased Czechoslovaks took place on July 9 in Nikolsk-Ussuriysky and on July 10 in Vladivostok. And let's stop ideological dancing on bones, dear fellow proletarians of paper plantations! It smells very disgusting.

        God forbid, I wouldn’t even have the thought of doubting the veracity and impartiality of the international medical commissions assembled to expose the atrocities of the bloody Bolsheviks. True, I have several questions at once, without answers to which you feel like a complete idiot:
        1. The commission was assembled to investigate only 17 corpses. What are the powers of this commission? At whose request was it collected? Why has this commission never appeared anywhere else? Nowadays, the results of her investigation should be shouted from every iron, and we don’t even know what it’s called.
        2. There is not a word about exhumation. Those. the commission examined the corpses even before the funeral. Unique speed of commission collection and operation.
        3. Why do the Czechoslovakians, lined up next to the corpses of their brutally murdered comrades, have such happy faces? They don't even try to pretend to be sad.
        But this is by the way. Now about the removal of the loot.
        36 ships were purchased for export by legionnaires. Some managed to make two flights, for a total of 42 flights. Ask what kind of shisha they were bought for? The first thing that comes to mind is, of course, the salaries of foreign players - gee-gee-gee! During the fighting, Czechoslovakians received 6 rubles. per month, they bought Legia for 40 million Czechoslovak crowns.
        In favor of the Czechoslovaks, it should be noted that the time to purchase the fleet was ideal. In 1918 the war ended and the demand for military transport fell sharply. In turn, shipbuilding left the military rails only in 1920. A crisis of overproduction arose, so any ships, both new and used, could be bought at half price or cheaper.
        Czechoslovakia is landlocked. However, the Versailles Peace Treaty of 1919, by its Article 273, obliged the recognition of ships flying the flags and with home ports even of those countries that do not have a sea coast. Moreover, directly under Articles 363 and 364, Germany was obliged to lease berths in Szczecin (now Poland) and Hamburg to Czechoslovakia for 99 years. The ships purchased to export the loot formed the so-called fleet of Czechoslovak legionnaires. Unfortunately, for the sake of the Czechoslovak brothers, this topic was closed, so there is very little information about this fleet.
        Let's think about what the Czechoslovakians could buy? It is known that 200 transports (1,5 million reg. tons) were lost to mines laid by German submarines. We divide one by the other and get an average of 7500 reg. tons for transport. Reg. tons measure the total volume of the vessel and the volume of premises that could be occupied for payload. 7500 reg. tons is approximately 3750 tons of cargo (let me be corrected if I counted wrong). If the Czechs were not complete idiots, then they purchased vehicles in approximately this capacity range as the most common and least in demand.
        What can you take away with 7500 reg. tons of lifting capacity? When you counted the pounds of cargo on Legia, you received 350 tons. Sorry, but 350 tons for transport is just a ridiculous figure. In total, in addition to the evacuated Czechoslovaks, 8884 tons of refined copper, 4769 tons of cotton - a scarce raw material in Europe at that time, 334 tons of rubber, 286 tons of sheep wool, 23 tons of camel wool, 150 tons of beef leather, 650 tons of cedar (hard wood) were exported. , 540 tons of flaxseed, 28 tons of canvas, 15 tons of bristles, 26 tons of cinnamon, 10 tons of pepper, 11 tons of camphor, etc.
        About the possibility of transporting 70 thousand evacuees in 42 flights. On November 10, 1920, the Great Draping of the Wrangelites from Crimea began. Over the course of three days, 126 ships loaded troops, families of officers, and part of the civilian population of the Crimean ports - Sevastopol, Yalta, Feodosia, Kerch, and Evpatoria. The total number of evacuees was about 150 thousand people. Everything that could float was used. I know that sailors "walk", so don't correct me. Probably the record holder for transportation was the cargo-passenger cruiser Rion (until 12.10.1904/8500/350 “Smolensk”), which transported 3 refugees from Sevastopol to Istanbul. However, the squadron also had troughs with a displacement of 1300 tons. Among the transports were 2200 ships of the “Elpidifor” type (sometimes the name “Elpifidor” is found) - armed landing steamers. They were mass-produced and took part in the Great Patriotic War. The total displacement is 2300 tons, the largest is 2000 tons, the cruising range is 1800 nautical miles, it was possible to transfer XNUMX people into the war. infantry with small arms and light weapons. Those. with tank machine guns, mortars, several rounds of ammunition, food, etc. Say XNUMX people. Is this not liftable on board? - Oh well.
        1. +1
          18 September 2023 17: 16
          Please excuse me! Due to a typo, I missed Rion's displacement. It amounted to 12050 tons.
        2. +1
          19 September 2023 17: 15
          Thank you for your interesting comments about Chekhov.
    2. +3
      18 September 2023 08: 37
      Here it is necessary to explain that Rubber at that time was the scarcest strategic material, costing much more than gold, so its accounting was carried out in grains. 80000 grains is approximately 4,96 kg.

      You shouldn’t write nonsense about rubber being more expensive than gold.





      These are the workshops of the Riga plant "Provodnik". 1910 Produced rubber products from tires to toys. Before the First World War, 16 (sixteen thousand) people worked there. By the way, galoshes were already being produced then, and they were made of rubber.


      In the original list, most likely there were “various rings,” that is, looted jewelry. And some scribbler peed himself and there was a wave about rubber being more expensive than gold.
      1. 0
        18 September 2023 17: 29
        You shouldn’t write nonsense about rubber being more expensive than gold.

        Counteroffer. You wouldn’t write nonsense about rubber at all.
        A few more words about legionnaires:
        After the conclusion of a truce with the Red troops on February 7, 1920, a sale of property in large quantities was organized in Irkutsk, then in Harbin and Vladivostok. Thus, 12 thousand horses of cavalry regiments were sold to the population. The horses were different from 25 to 500 rubles. Per head. Military ammunition, military carts, saddles, and harnesses were sold. There was a sale of workshops, tools, and production mechanisms. Everything was turned into money. In the areas of gold mines, property was sold for gold. In Vladivostok alone, 235 wagons of goods were sold. According to reports, about 3 billion rubles were raised...
        ...Cash, which is mainly Russian rubles, was invested in raw materials and supplies. They were transported in the cargo holds of passenger ships with soldiers. It is known that the following cargo was brought:
        8884 tons of refined copper - an expensive metal, 4769 tons of cotton - a scarce raw material in Europe at that time. 334 tons of rubber, 286 tons of sheep wool, 23 tons of camel wool, 150 tons of beef leather, 650 tons of kebracha (hard tropical wood), 540 tons of flaxseed, 28 tons of canvas, 15 tons of bristles, 26 tons of cinnamon, 10 tons of pepper, 11 tons of camphor, etc.

        Doesn’t it bother you that 334 tons of rubber were exported painlessly, but a scandal was created over less than 5 kg? Because rubber is not only galoshes and tires, but also gas and oil resistant rings for engines. And this is a completely different price range. Especially in conditions of terrible wartime shortages. It's called speculation.
        1. 0
          18 September 2023 21: 27
          Counteroffer.

          Counteroffer. Don't write nonsense. Rubber, of any kind, has never been more expensive than gold.
          In 1915, there were about 4 automobiles in the United States alone. During the First World War, the production of aircraft increased to hundreds of thousands, and even more aircraft engines. And there were gas-oil-resistant seals everywhere. We needed tons of them. In Germany in 000, synthetic rubber was already produced on an industrial scale.
          1. -1
            19 September 2023 04: 51
            In 1915, there were about 4 automobiles in the United States alone. During the First World War, aircraft production increased to hundreds of thousands, and even more aircraft engines. And there were gas-oil-resistant seals everywhere. We needed tons of them.
            - Wow! Who would have thought! Wow! You opened my eyes! But I didn’t understand how this relates to the topic of our conversation.
            I didn’t think that at VO I would have to go through in detail things that would be understandable to any person with a military education. So I'll start from afar. Economists of the USSR wrote dissertations on the topic of how to inflict maximum economic damage on an enemy country with a minimum scale of bombing. In particular, one dissertation candidate proved that if you bomb the only ball bearing plant in all of England, then both its industry and its transport will fall overnight. Those. at this particular moment in time in a particular place, a penny ball bearing will become more valuable than gold.
            We do not discuss production volumes and world prices for rubber products in 1920. We are talking about a specific place and time - the dying White Army in the Far East in 1920. The Czechoslovaks (we must say a huge thank you to them for this) stole not just 5 kg of cheap rubber, they stole the strategic repair stock of the White Army. Without him, the entire transport of the White Army was doomed. In a calm environment, this repair kit would have been restored in a matter of months - just a drive to America and back, but the White Guards did not have these months. That is why the White Guard press was furious over some unfortunate 5 kg of rubber. Because at that particular point in time in a particular place, these unfortunate penny rings became more valuable than gold. This is essentially a figurative expression. Since such rings in the Far East in 1920 were impossible to get for any money or gold. Although I suspect that any arguments will hit the wall with you.
            1. 0
              19 September 2023 06: 53
              This is essentially a figurative expression.

              This offer was enough. The rest of the text is fantasy.
            2. Fat
              0
              19 September 2023 20: 01
              Wow! You are well done. I have an acquaintance, a former teacher at the Khimdym Academy. It was as if I had listened to his lecture with calculations.
    3. +3
      18 September 2023 09: 00
      In gratitude for this, modern Russia erects monuments to the Czechs:

      Everything is logical, anti-Soviet Russia erects monuments to the external and internal enemies of the Soviet people, who threw the White Terror and the atrocities of the interventionists out of the history of the Civil War, and inflated the Red Terror to enormous proportions.
      1. Fat
        0
        19 September 2023 21: 20
        It's you, Tatra.
        Quote: tatra
        terror was inflated to enormous proportions.
  7. -6
    18 September 2023 06: 23
    And then what? Today we have to wait for the arrival of new Bolsheviks?
    Who will play the role of Lenin, who will be the new Trotsky, Uritsky, Kaganovich? Should we wait for a new Stalin?
    P.S. You can change the article - replace the scene with the outskirts, the time - 2022. Bolsheviks - to the hetman with a lot of money. Interventionists - against the orcs.
    1. +3
      18 September 2023 06: 37
      Today we have to wait for the arrival of new Bolsheviks?
      Or maybe you shouldn’t expect favors from nature?
      1. 0
        18 September 2023 07: 13
        Quote: parusnik
        Or maybe you shouldn’t expect favors from nature?

        Organize, Alexey, a partisan detachment “Back to the USSR”, grab more nitroglycerin tablets and go ahead with a song!
        1. +1
          18 September 2023 17: 33
          Why not? That’s a good suggestion. Apparently you have some suggestions. I’ll take him into the squad, lead singer and help with the pills.
          1. +1
            20 September 2023 12: 20
            Quote: parusnik
            Why not? That’s a good suggestion. Apparently you have some suggestions. I’ll take him into the squad, lead singer and help with the pills.

            No, I've had enough of working. I wasn’t the one who destroyed it, and it’s not for me to put it back together.
    2. +1
      18 September 2023 07: 33
      Where will they come from? There is no one else except ourselves.. We can wait until we are completely stupefied, until the bourgeoisie finally ruin the country. It’s not easy to fit into the snow-white jacket of our true Supreme, it’s not everyone’s size. What to do - there are no other options.
      1. +2
        18 September 2023 12: 17
        Quote: paul3390
        It’s not easy to fit into the snow-white jacket of our true Supreme, it’s not everyone’s size.

        This is one of the problems - there is no self-sufficient figure with realistic program. Not with slogans - with a program. Not only that, the people must believe this figure so much that they can endure the next 7 years of complete lawlessness a la military communism/"1990s". And without them, the redistribution of property is impossible...
  8. -2
    18 September 2023 06: 58
    The “obscene” Treaty of Brest-Litovsk stopped the Germans, for which the territories of present-day Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic states, and Finland were given away. But who shouted earlier: “Down with the war!”, the same Bolsheviks, they destroyed the old army.
    1. +4
      18 September 2023 07: 20
      Quote from pavel.tipingmail.com
      The “obscene” Treaty of Brest-Litovsk stopped the Germans, for which the territories of present-day Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic states, and Finland were given away. But who shouted earlier: “Down with the war!”, the same Bolsheviks, they destroyed the old army.

      Did the war of 1914-1918 really help Russia? And what about the fact that the White Guards did not fight against the Germans, but created an army in the territory they occupied?

      And who had the power? The old army, or the Bolsheviks, who came to power only in November 1917?

      You know what..... There is no need to blame your ancestors for idiocy if you yourself ruined your country in PEACEFUL times in 1991...

      Those who have a mess in their heads always blame not thieves or traitors for all troubles, but those who fought with them.....

      You don't know the swearing part. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was signed in March 1918, and the UPR let the Germans in back in February 1918.
      And with what forces were the Bolsheviks supposed to stop all this if the Red Army began to form only in February?


      By the way, your Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, which you all rush around like a sack, was annulled by the Bolsheviks in November 1918, but the fight against the “Russian patriots Denikin” who managed to create an army in the territory occupied by the Germans continued for a very long time. laughing
      1. 0
        18 September 2023 11: 33
        Quote: ivan2022
        Did the war of 1914-1918 really help Russia?

        Those. Do you think it was necessary to surrender in 1914? Germany declared war on Russia, and not vice versa.
        Quote: ivan2022
        And what about the fact that the White Guards did not fight against the Germans, but created an army in the territory they occupied?

        I only know Krasnov. Who else?
        1. +2
          18 September 2023 14: 19
          No, it all started with the fact that Nicholas II announced mobilization on the border with Austria-Hungary, and the German ambassador 3 times suggested that the Russian ambassador Sazonov cancel the mobilization, and only after the third refusal, he declared war on the Republic of Ingushetia.
          Nicholas II deliberately dragged Russia into the First World War.
          1. +2
            18 September 2023 18: 00
            That's right.... the Serbs should have been given over to the Austrians to be slaughtered. That's what you would do.
            1. 0
              19 September 2023 17: 20
              There is no need to engage in nonsense. Germany led the hands of the Austrians with the consent of Britain, which until August 3 convinced Germany of its neutral position.
      2. +3
        18 September 2023 13: 19
        Quote: ivan2022
        "Russian patriots Denikin"


        It doesn’t occur to you that the West played with Denikin, as well as with everyone else, a giveaway in order to destroy the intelligentsia and destroy the country, just as they are playing with Ukraine today.
    2. +5
      18 September 2023 08: 05
      for this the territories of present-day Ukraine were given,
      Pavel, I already wrote that Moscow then (March 3, 1918) no longer controlled Ukraine - the corresponding agreement was signed by the Germans by the government of the then Ukraine (UNR) on February 9, 1918. After that, they fled to Ukraine and even to Crimea, which was not in the agreement with the UPR.
      1. +4
        18 September 2023 09: 12
        which was not in the agreement with the UPR.
        After the conclusion of the agreement, the UPR government turned to Germany for help in the fight against the Bolsheviks, who by that time occupied most of Ukraine.
        1. +1
          18 September 2023 19: 56
          for help in the fight against the Bolsheviks, who by that time occupied most of Ukraine.
          All this, of course, is good (Don Sera), but at that time the Crimea, where the Germans later invaded, was not yet Ukrainian, and the Bolshevik uprising in Kiev at the Arsenal plant from January 29 to February 4, 1918 was suppressed by the dill on their own, without Germans.
    3. +4
      18 September 2023 09: 05
      Firstly, it was Nicholas II, praised by the enemies of the USSR who captured the RSFSR, who surrendered these territories of the Russian Empire to the Germans, and then abandoned the country and people, and secondly, what kind of army was it that the oppositionists were able to destroy?
      1. +1
        18 September 2023 12: 55
        Quote: tatra
        What kind of army was it that the oppositionists were able to destroy?


        Who, if not the Bolsheviks, published the newspaper Pravda and carried out propaganda work among soldiers and sailors aimed at the collapse of the front? Let's face it, read Lenin, he devotes a lot to this issue. Thirty to fifty years ago this was perceived differently, as work aimed at saving the country, but today, in light of the events in Ukraine, understanding is coming. Nothing new, everything is the same, only people with different last names and the script is different. But, as then, the revolution is being fomented from Ukraine, the Baltic states, Poland, Finland, and Georgia. Nothing new. We read Capital, Lenin’s works, rethink them and draw the right conclusions.
        1. +1
          18 September 2023 14: 14
          So, what is next ? What kind of army was this of 15 million people that could be destroyed by a few agitators and newspapers?
          Why couldn’t the Red Army in the Civil and Great Patriotic Wars be destroyed by your anti-Soviet agitation, external and internal enemies of the Soviet people? And why did Russian men have to die in the First World War? After all, no one attacked the Republic of Ingushetia, it was Nicholas II who dragged the people into the First World War for the sake of helping France and Serbia.
          1. -1
            18 September 2023 23: 26
            Have you ever thought about the scale of the Russian Empire in 1917? Just answer your question: What did the Czech Corps do in Transbaikalia? How did they get there and why?

            Quote: tatra
            So, what is next ? What kind of army was this of 15 million people that could be destroyed by a few agitators and newspapers?
            Why couldn’t the Red Army in the Civil and Great Patriotic Wars be destroyed by your anti-Soviet agitation, external and internal enemies of the Soviet people?


            The Emperor acted much like Putin, while the Kiev government acts strictly in accordance with the methods of the Bolsheviks. What We are seeing today in Ukraine:
            1. The borders are closed for men to travel.
            2. Forced conscription into the army. There are severe punishments for refusal.
            3. Foreign detachments.
            4. Terror throughout the territory of Ukraine.
            Nothing new.
            This works only in the short term, then the collapse and collapse of the country.
            1. -1
              19 September 2023 00: 16
              Quote from Eugene Zaboy
              3. Foreign detachments

              They are "zagrad".

              It would be interesting to hear the conclusion. The words you threw out are, IMHO, quite enough.
      2. Fat
        +2
        18 September 2023 13: 45
        On the central square of my town there is a stone in memory of the divisions formed in the province before being sent to the front of the First World War.
        Don't you dare touch their honor! They fought for their homeland, like many, many before and after them!
    4. 0
      18 September 2023 09: 25
      for this, the territories of present-day Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic states, and Finland were given.
      The fact that part of Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltic states was occupied under the tsarist regime does not bother you, but the Germans came to Finland at the request of the former Russian officer Mannerheim during the civil war between the White and Red Finns?
    5. +5
      18 September 2023 10: 54
      Bolsheviks, they destroyed the old army.

      Bullshit. Order No. 1 of the Petrograd Soviet on the management of committees, etc., which began the rapid collapse of the old army, was issued on March 15. At that time there were TWO Bolsheviks in it. All. But of course they are to blame for everything, who would doubt it...
      1. +2
        18 September 2023 11: 25
        Quote: paul3390
        Order No. 1...
        ...which began the rapid collapse of the old army

        The Bolsheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries began to corrupt the people and the army from the very beginning of WWII, calling on the soldiers to stick their bayonets into the ground. And the order to create committees is already the apogee...
        1. +2
          18 September 2023 12: 41
          Didn't the cadets and others corrupt them? When did they publish about Rasputin’s adventures? This is something else.
          1. -1
            18 September 2023 13: 56
            The Bolsheviks and the West made a fetish out of Rasputin. In fact, the old man was harmless. What did he do, besides spreading rumors? They needed to discredit the royal family, they used Rasputin and any other opportunities and gossip.
          2. +1
            18 September 2023 14: 17
            Quote: kor1vet1974
            Didn't the cadets and others corrupt them?

            But what about the war to the bitter end? In your opinion, is this the disintegration of the army?
        2. +4
          18 September 2023 14: 08
          On July 16, 1917, Denikin declared in the presence of Kerensky: “When they repeat at every step that the Bolsheviks were the cause of the collapse of the army, I protest. This is not true. The army was destroyed by others. The military legislation of recent months has destroyed the army.”
          О
          1. +3
            18 September 2023 14: 30
            Quote: tatra
            On July 16, 1917, Denikin stated in the presence of Kerensky:

            Kerensky shook hands with Denikin, Anton Ivanovich, by the way, proposed, among other things, to introduce military revolutionary courts and the death penalty, both in the army and in the rear.
            Kerensky ........... thank you general
            Subsequently, Kerensky, without embarrassment, reported.......... General Denikin outlined a program for revenge - military reaction....
  9. -4
    18 September 2023 07: 14
    Even the Russian Tsar Alexander 3rd, who spoke Russian with a German accent, stated that “the Russian peasant needs a Tsar and a good whip”...

    And on this the Bolsheviks made a big mistake. They established democratic legislation and a democratic charter of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus in the country...
    And they couldn’t understand that Russia ALWAYS lives under a Monarchy. Regardless of current laws.

    Either in the form of a communist dictatorship or in the form of an anti-communist dictatorship. Or it won't exist at all.
    1. +4
      18 September 2023 12: 01
      Quote: ivan2022
      Even the Russian Tsar Alexander 3rd, who spoke Russian with a German accent, stated,

      This is rude gossip, first launched by the university library of Denmark (without reference to the tsar), then, as usual, bloggers picked it up, and the cherry on the cake - in a newspaper financed (at that time) by B. Berezovsky, they happily reported ..... .. an ideological blow has been dealt to the bakers
      Alexander III never spoke German and had a dislike for the Germans, just like Maria Fedorovna, who generally hated the Germans.
      1. Fat
        +2
        18 September 2023 12: 25
        Quote: bober1982
        like Maria Feodorovna, she generally hated the Germans.

        And that's true! Maria Feodorovna (Maria Sophia Frederica Dagmar before marriage) - Danish princess. Where is the love for the gloomy Teutons of Prussia to be found? smile
        1. +4
          18 September 2023 12: 38
          Quote: Thick
          Where is the love for the gloomy Teutons of Prussia to be found?

          Danish-German wars, 1848-1850, 1864, hence the hatred of the Germans.
  10. +4
    18 September 2023 08: 04
    The Bolsheviks did save the country, but this historical fact does not make this article historical, educational, or simply useful. This is some kind of primitive thing for younger schoolchildren.
    1. +6
      18 September 2023 08: 20
      Quote: Alexander Kochurkov
      This is some kind of primitive thing for younger students

      But it opens up unprecedented scope for comments... wink
    2. Fat
      +1
      18 September 2023 12: 46
      hi Alexander
      Quote: Alexander Kochurkov
      The Bolsheviks did save the country, but this historical fact does not make this article historical, educational, or simply useful. This is some kind of primitive

      This is not an article! This is a common remark of Alexander Samsonov on the publication of V.O. Shpakovsky "The Unknown War".
      A. Samsonov did not take part in the discussion, but he read, and he undoubtedly has his own thoughts. Samsonov finally spoke out... This is wonderful, I think. But this brief publication, essentially a commentary, is almost an abuse of authority IMHO.
      And... Yes. In this case, I have no complaints against the author of this publication. This is true.
  11. -1
    18 September 2023 09: 08
    The article is simply a “balm for the soul.” It’s so rare in 35 years of “freedom of speech” for the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people to read honest articles.
    1. 0
      20 September 2023 12: 24
      Quote: tatra
      "balm for the soul"

      It turned out to be some kind of very cheap balm. Looks like it's from a 7th grade textbook.
  12. +6
    18 September 2023 09: 08
    After the revolution of 1917, the masters of England and the United States support whites, reds, separatist nationalists, any government.
    Here would be more detail about how, during the civil war, the masters of England and the United States supported the Reds? Have you sent weapons? Military advisers? Did they supply food for nothing?
    1. +1
      18 September 2023 12: 43
      Just like today they help Ukraine, they proportionately supported all parties for gold and jewelry so that as many people as possible would be destroyed.
    2. Fat
      +1
      18 September 2023 20: 00
      Well... Komuch, the directory is quite under a red flag. Izhevsk division - red and green flag... like green caftans. This division went through the entire civil war until 1922; the remnants either remained in China or went to the USA. My grandmother’s sister left notes about migration, about a journey through Siberia. My sisters and I try not to remember our great-aunt. Don't give a damn about Baba Grunya's business! in 1918. She lived in Chicago, married to a Jew, yes x... The last relationship of my relatives Pogudin - 38 Year... Workers' regiment!
      I have no relatives abroad! My clearance is the highest... (normal, to stay at home until death without the right to leave drinks )
  13. 0
    18 September 2023 11: 44
    A very correct and necessary article. Perhaps it will open someone's eyes to the essence of a big game, not designed for a year or two, or even a couple of decades. Attempts to make us a territory and eat us up piece by piece have been going on for many hundreds of years. Nobody in the West considered us and does not consider us to be full-fledged people. The nouveau riche is no exception.

    Now it is fashionable to criticize the Bolsheviks. Screaming about the bomb that Lenin planted at the founding of the USSR. Everyone fancies himself a strategist, seeing the battle from the outside. The Bolsheviks then did the impossible. They put the collapsed country back together. They saved the peoples of the former Republic of Ingushetia. And this is contrary to the opinion of numerous experts and professionals that this is no longer possible.
    1. +1
      18 September 2023 14: 03
      Screaming about the bomb that Lenin planted at the founding of the USSR.

      By the fact that the enemies of the USSR categorically refuse responsibility for their seizure and dismemberment of the USSR into their anti-Soviet-Russophobic States, they proved that they recognize their dismemberment of the USSR as their crime against the USSR and the Soviet people.
  14. 0
    18 September 2023 12: 05
    The Russians became “Indians,” that is, aborigines who lost their “white man” status.

    This is rightly noted by the author.
    But what time does it refer to? Isn't it for real?
    What the currently half-dead or half-dead (as you like) psycho and his gang have done to the country during the twenty-three years of his mind-blowing and voluptuous reign will probably surpass the consequences of even those events that the author writes about. Not to mention the possibilities and abilities of the existing government to somehow correct or improve the current situation in the country.
    Everyone understands that thieves, embezzlers, corrupt officials, and liars are hated by any decent person. That is why, having access to information, the whole world knows about the essence of the regime in our country, watching how the “flesh of the flesh” of this regime, Russian oligarchs and officials, their children and grandchildren, relatives and friends, relax and have fun in the West, what they have yachts and palaces, how much money they have, and how they spend it. In addition, all this is intensively covered by the Western media, creating in the minds of the average person there a corresponding opinion about Russians in general!!
    This is the result.
    And what, we want THEM to do something, correct the situation, pull the country out of this swamp of thieves? Why on earth?
    If the Bolsheviks knew what they were giving their lives for, in the most literal sense, what the goal was, to which they were moving, under what slogans, then the result was stunning. Everyone has probably watched N. Mikhalkov’s film “One Among Strangers, a Stranger Among Friend”? A brilliantly made film! It was these people who led the country to victories: the world system of socialism, the second economy in the world, the first space power in the world, the best education, science, culture, art in the world.
    Not enough?
    Then think about it, what have today’s government and ideological leaders given to us, our children, and are they giving to our grandchildren? Members of the ruling party know only thieves' commandments. Well, the director I mentioned was transformed into a master of all Rus', with a more than impressive fortune, with purchased real estate in the Czech Republic, half the size of this dwarf country. And with foam at the mouth, in his “Besogons”, still professionally and convincingly, he pours into the ears of old women watching televisions about the Russian government and its rightness.
    Cares...
    Understands...
    Yes, the Bolsheviks won that battle. But not war! Unfortunately, they (that is, we) lost the war...
    These won't win anything!
    May the Putriots understand me...
    1. 0
      19 September 2023 17: 25
      Why should you give anything to you, your children and grandchildren, they have their own children and grandchildren.
  15. -2
    18 September 2023 12: 17
    Quote from: turbina2367
    The Bolsheviks won that battle. But not war! Unfortunately, they (that is, we) lost the war...
    These won't win anything!

    Let your energy go in a peaceful direction (I mean, I invite you to the news section on this site)!
  16. -3
    18 September 2023 12: 35
    After the revolution of 1917, the masters of England and the United States support whites, reds, separatist nationalists, any government.


    Alexander Samsonov glorifies the Bolsheviks, forgetting that it was they who organized the very revolution of 1917. By the way, to which Comrade Lenin, in a completely inexplicable way, arrived in a letter carriage from Germany. Navalny switched to airplanes, progress after all, but Chancellor Merkel herself sent a plane for Navalny. By personal order. Indicative. Nevertheless, more money fits into the car. To be objective, it was the Bolsheviks who destroyed the Russian Empire and deprived it of Poland, Finland and other vast territories that could be listed for a long time. Most importantly, they destroyed millions of citizens, pursuing an absolutely inhumane, short-sighted policy. Which, precisely because of this, ended with the collapse of the USSR, the impoverishment of the population, and an empty country. Without the Bolsheviks, there would be about 500 million people, plus or minus 20%, with an industrially populated, developed Siberia. Today, thanks to the Bolsheviks, Siberia is even more wild and undeveloped than under the Russian Empire. There, as in central Russia, there is simply no one to live, people were destroyed, died out due to inhuman living conditions. If we are building a future, prosperous Russia, we must call a spade a spade, otherwise things will turn out as always. Like Chernomyrdin.
    1. +2
      18 September 2023 12: 55
      Lenin arrived "inexplicably"? Are you a victim of the Unified State Exam or what?

      Lenin came to Russia from exile along with hundreds of other emigrants in April 1917. Understandably, after approvals from the Provisional Government and receipt of a Russian visa. Which he waited for two months.

      The revolution in October 1917 refers to the transfer of powers of the Provisional Government to the government of the Bolshevik Party by decision of the 2nd All-Russian Congress of Soviets....

      Just as the powers of the Provisional Government were approved by the 1st All-Russian Congress in June 1917.

      Learn the swear part and don’t write rubbish...

      Why don’t people like you raise questions about the shooting of the All-Russian Congress of People’s Deputies, also in October? Only 1993...

      Shooting an entire congress is normal, but arresting a government that does not comply with the decisions of the legislative branch is not normal..... These are your problems... This is from the field of medicine, as I believe.
      1. +2
        18 September 2023 14: 08
        Quote: ivan2022
        Lenin came to Russia from exile along with hundreds of other emigrants in April 1917. Understandably, after approvals from the Provisional Government and receipt of a Russian visa. Which he waited for two months.

        The revolution in October 1917 refers to the transfer of powers of the Provisional Government to the government of the Bolshevik Party by decision of the 2nd All-Russian Congress of Soviets....

        Just as the powers of the Provisional Government were approved by the 1st All-Russian Congress in June 1917.

        Learn the swear part and don’t write rubbish...


        I didn’t find any mention of the date of Lenin’s arrival in Russia in my post. I didn’t even write anything about the armored car, or about the hut.
        By the way, in 2014, the Verkhovna Rada, at gunpoint and machine guns, also worked very effectively for the cause of the Maidan; some deputies were changed through garbage cans. Probably also legitimate.
      2. Fat
        +1
        18 September 2023 14: 15
        Quote: ivan2022
        These are your problems... This is from the field of medicine, I believe.

        I’ll be gentle in my definitions of “Which one will be shot”CONGRESS"All-Russian deputies? (I apologize for highlighting the font from the administrators!)
        Quote: ivan2022
        not normal

        What Congress? Congress of whom?
        Fine! The Duma did not have the power to refuse decisions of the executive branch. The Duma did not have time to formalize this legally. The deputies took refuge in the White House until decisions were made. This is what “Clinton’s friend Yeltsin” saw through... the White House and shot the nest of hidden Duma delegates.
        I absolutely can’t imagine what would have happened if the deputies had won sad These would have made EVERYONE chat, see the history of the “Constituent Assembly”
        I believe that this is the only moment when Yeltsin acted truly in a Bolshevik way - 1993
        1. -1
          19 September 2023 00: 03
          Quote: Thick
          What Congress? Congress of whom?


          I also can’t understand which congress. If we are talking about the Fab Four and their supporters seizing the White House, then this is different. This event cannot be called anything other than a coup. By the way, how many people know how this would end if successful? Does anyone know that many offices of commercial companies adjacent to the Kremlin were filled with weapons and Dudayev’s militants. They did not dare to speak out when they saw that Moscow had taken to the streets and rebelled. I personally saw later these offices, places where weapons were stored, and talked with witnesses (rather participants), in whose presence the weapons were brought in, hidden and taken away. I can imagine what a bloodbath would have engulfed Russia if they had managed to carry out a coup. Many Muscovites knew about this, but nevertheless took to the streets.
          1. Fat
            +2
            19 September 2023 11: 45
            I “passed by” there too, no need to build conspiracy theories!
            This is the only correct decision of Yeltsin and his entourage - to strangle the Russian "Maidan" in the bud. After 93, everyone realized that Russia was here to stay, if not forever. The Ukrainian president shit himself in such a situation!
    2. 0
      18 September 2023 13: 59
      Without the Bolsheviks there would be about 500 million people, plus or minus 20%,

      The enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people and Russophobes stupidly, thoughtlessly repeat anti-Soviet manuals, without even understanding their meaning, unable to prove and justify them.
      1. -1
        18 September 2023 14: 21
        These are all the fruits of the Unified State Exam. laughing Mendeleev at one time believed that by the end of the 20th century there would be 600 million people living in Russia, and 500 million in the USA.... Heh... Heh.. poor Mendeleev..... He didn’t know how he “got there” "........ finger to the sky.

        Such forecasts for the end of the century are not made even in our time....

        But by 1989, about 300 million lived in the USSR, which was more than in the USA. At least Mendeleev was not mistaken in this one thing...
        1. 0
          18 September 2023 14: 55
          The method of linear interpretation according to the method applied by Mendeleev for some other countries for the year 2000 gives the following results:
          India. Forecast: 397 million Reality: 1015 million
          Germany. Forecast: 250 million Reality: 82 million
          USA Forecast: 589 million Reality: 281 million
          Argentina. Forecast: 220 million Reality: 38 million
          “If we assume that the increase will continue and the harm is close to 1%, that is, the number of inhabitants of the entire Earth will double in about 60-70 years, then in 100 years, that is, by 2000 there will be more than 4 inhabitants on Earth. billion, and then the tightness will be the same almost everywhere, as now in Germany ... "(D. I. Mendeleev" To the knowledge of Russia).
          1. +3
            19 September 2023 02: 30
            You don't have to be Mendeleev to come to the same conclusions. It is enough to have knowledge of the 5th grade program and basic Internet communication skills. Mendeleev was more likely right than wrong in his predictions. He, of course, did not take into account the influence of world wars in his calculations, and certainly did not assume possible catastrophic casualties. If Germany, France,
            The Russian Empire (USSR) did not get involved in world wars and revolutions for almost 50 years, the result most likely would have been close to Mendeleev’s forecasts. We must proceed from the fact that these forecasts are read not only by people interested in their implementation, but also by those who want them not to come true. Not only wants, but also does everything possible for this. Dudayev, for example, who was keen on the collapse of Russia, supported the putsch and sent militants with weapons to Moscow,
            in order to further take advantage of the situation that has weakened Russia. Statistics on population growth in the United States, a state located in the Northern Hemisphere and which avoided participation in world wars, confirm Mendeleev’s conclusions. If we compare this carefully, without bias, we will get the same results. Naturally, in scientific classrooms, it is possible to take into account more parameters and obtain more accurate figures, but they are unlikely to significantly change the meaning and conclusions. You criticize the USA and England for trying to destroy Russia. Here is the above, a clear example of a consistent policy aimed, for more than 100 years, at the destruction and destruction of Russia and Europe, or their conquest and subjugation. Unfortunately, in this case, the communists and Bolsheviks were used by the West, not so much against the Russian Empire, but against the indigenous population of Russia and Europe, without realizing it and realizing the consequences. Because it is difficult to imagine that they were engaged in self-destruction. Some kind of self-masochists.
            1. -1
              19 September 2023 17: 29
              What monstrous nonsense...how can all this get into a person’s head.
      2. Fat
        +2
        18 September 2023 14: 42
        You, Irina, attribute the properties of the imaginary “irreconcilable” to the enemies of the USSR, they were ready to go to “consensus”. Your beloved communists handed over the country to external control for once!... like in the Brest-Litovsk Treaty. It was necessary to disentangle both during the Civil War and in the 90s!

        There are no manuals written here! The USSR experiment is unique, thanks to I.V. To Stalin, he confirmed the viability of the social state system created by the Bolshevik Party. And the “quiet” return to the system of social justice is progressing at a new, more perfect level. I remember the past, but I am personally focused on the society where my grandchildren will live...
        The Soviet state made mistakes Yes. But no one has tried it before Us!
        Now there are those to whom we should turn for experience in socialist construction. without hesitation, take the best and improve it. smile
        The USSR existed for 70 years. The Juche idea has been alive for 75 years (since 1945)
        Something went wrong?
        1. -2
          18 September 2023 15: 00
          What nonsense? It was precisely the enemies of the Bolsheviks who wanted to give Russia to external control in both the Civil and Great Patriotic Wars.
          And who do you call communists there? The “liberator” of the enemies of the communists on the territory of the USSR Gorbachev, the benefactor of the Russian enemies of the communists Yeltsin, those members of the CPSU who, together with the enemies of the communists since Perestroika, slander the Bolshevik communists, justify the crimes of their external and internal enemies?
          1. Fat
            +2
            18 September 2023 15: 10
            I finally understood. You are a chatterbox! Listen to, and, God forbid, read “Lenin,” much less understand it, not within the “framework” of the concept... It’s not given to you. You are a robot! laughing
            1. +1
              18 September 2023 15: 59
              Ha, what, having nothing to refute my words with, decided to cowardly get out?
              1. Fat
                +2
                18 September 2023 16: 52
                You are a cowardly creature, you don’t know how to read, your entire semantic blocks are missing. Whether you support your position or deny it, you will find an enemy. You are not stupid, but the help of a psychiatrist will not hurt you. Only Novodvorskaya is cooler than you, and she, unfortunately, went to God’s court.
                Are you and her not in the “Rip on the Fatherland” competition for championship? hmm...
                For Sores' money?
                Feel free to state what you want.
                You are not a “fool from under the stove” - YOU are an Esser-maximalist, One of those who opposed the civil war with the interventionists in the Izhevsk soviets. Go look for arguments, diehard. You were the one who was scared, I have nothing to be afraid of. Kaftan workers and the Life Guards are in my blood... laughing
                Jewish accountants are the same wassat
                1. -1
                  19 September 2023 00: 58
                  Quote: Thick
                  Whether you support your position or deny it, you will find an enemy. You are not stupid, but the help of a psychiatrist will not hurt you

                  But this is not what I said:


                  There is nothing new under the sun request
                2. -1
                  19 September 2023 17: 31
                  Even the help of a psychiatrist will not help you, only lobotomy.
                  1. Fat
                    0
                    19 September 2023 20: 18
                    Quote: Foma Kinyaev
                    only lobotomy.

                    Are you sure that you haven’t gone through this procedure yourself? crying wassat
                  2. -2
                    19 September 2023 20: 39
                    Quote: Foma Kinyaev
                    only lobotamia

                    "Tamiya" is a 5.
            2. -1
              19 September 2023 00: 49
              Quote: Thick
              You are a robot!

              I said this a couple of years ago...
        2. +1
          18 September 2023 15: 02
          Quote: Thick
          You, Irina, attribute the properties of the imaginary “irreconcilable” to the enemies of the USSR, they were ready to go to “consensus”. Your beloved communists handed over the country to external control for once!... like in the Brest-Litovsk Treaty. It was necessary to disentangle both during the Civil War and in the 90s! The USSR experiment is unique
          Something went wrong?

          “Adored communists” is Yeltsin, who banned the CPSU a month before he “surrendered the country”? Or is it 18 million weak-minded people who managed to nominate obvious traitors to the leadership of their party?

          Or maybe almost 300 million who immediately agreed in December 1991 that three idiots and adventurers could divide the country at night in the Belovezhskaya forest.?? For such deeds, in a mentally normal society, this trio would have been sent not to prison, but to a madhouse in the morning...

          Have you confused anything?
          I wonder, who is Judas, who betrayed Christ?
          "beloved disciple and apostle"?

          Now I can answer “what went wrong”..... Yes, everything is “wrong” in the heads of “dear, beloved Russians”, in whom, over hundreds of years of serfdom, everything has been mixed into a mess and turned upside down.

          They admit that they are not full-fledged, since what is their main political slogan in modern Russia?
          “And for whom else?..” “that is,” we admit that out of 100 million there is not a single normal one to replace the existing ones.”

          Until the brains in our heads get back into place, there will be no positive continuation. There is another option - Paradise promised to dear Russians....
          1. 0
            18 September 2023 17: 50
            Quote: ivan2022
            Now I can answer “what went wrong”..... Yes, everything is “wrong” in the heads of “dear, beloved Russians”, in whom, over hundreds of years of serfdom, everything has been mixed into a mess and turned upside down.

            They admit that they are not full-fledged, since what is their main political slogan in modern Russia?
            “And for whom else?..” “that is,” we admit that out of 100 million there is not a single normal one to replace the existing ones.”

            Until the brains in our heads get back into place, there will be no positive continuation. There is another option - Paradise promised to dear Russians....

            + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
            1. 0
              19 September 2023 01: 17
              Quote: kalibr
              + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +


              Are you calling to the Maidan? Maidan is located in Kyiv, you should go there. In Russia Veche. This is different, without a market.
        3. 0
          19 September 2023 01: 29
          Quote: Thick
          Something went wrong?


          We need to learn from China. They carefully preserved patriarchy, in the form of small agriculture and individual entrepreneurship, without rushing from idea to idea, destroying millions along the way.
          1. +3
            19 September 2023 11: 15
            Quote from Eugene Zaboy
            They carefully preserved patriarchy, in the form of small agriculture and individual entrepreneurship, without rushing from idea to idea, destroying millions along the way.

            It’s clear that I destroyed patriarchy and everything else. Horror!
      3. -1
        19 September 2023 00: 56
        Population growth reflects an indicator of comfort - regardless of living conditions. Women will not give birth without feeling safe. For population reproduction, televisions, cars and steamships are not enough; other criteria work. The busier a man is, the more anxious a woman is.
        1. -3
          19 September 2023 18: 22
          Quote from Eugene Zaboy
          Population growth reflects an indicator of comfort - regardless of living conditions. Women will not give birth without feeling safe. For population reproduction, televisions, cars and steamships are not enough; other criteria work. The busier a man is, the more anxious a woman is.

          What a mess people have in their heads, and it’s all because everyone writes their own laws (!) and determines what is good and what is evil.
          1. -1
            19 September 2023 22: 14
            Quote: Vladimir80
            What a mess people have in their heads, and it’s all because everyone writes their own laws (!) and determines what is good and what is evil.


            I would like to hear your explanation of the paradox of the modern, industrial world. Why is there high population growth in industrially underdeveloped countries and wild tribes? At the same time, in industrialized countries, population growth is negative or very low. It would seem that in an industrialized state, a beautiful house with water, electricity, refrigerator, TV, cars, kitchen, toilet, bathroom, etc. was built for a woman. A man in such a house goes to work in the morning and returns in the evening safe and sound. Wild animals did not eat him or maim him. It would seem that what else should a woman do but give birth, take care of the house, and raise children. But no. If all of the above is present, she usually files for divorce, and the man goes to the left and no children as a result.
    3. -2
      18 September 2023 19: 44
      Without the Bolsheviks, there would be about 500 million people, plus or minus 20%, with an industrially populated, developed Siberia. Today, thanks to the Bolsheviks, Siberia is even more wild and undeveloped than under the Russian Empire.

      You, good sir, are amazingly creative in reworking the postulates of your idol from the St. Petersburg gateway. The verbal diarrhea of ​​the hegemon against the USSR, without any evidence on his part, and your nonsense mixed with ad-libs, form a single whole.
      Congratulations...
      1. -1
        19 September 2023 01: 10
        Quote from: turbina2367
        You, good sir, are amazingly creative in reworking the postulates of your idol from the St. Petersburg gateway. The verbal diarrhea of ​​the hegemon against the USSR, without any evidence on his part, and your nonsense mixed with ad-libs, form a single whole.
        Congratulations...


        Industrialization on bones is meaningless, since after its completion there is no one to work. Everyone knows how the Gulag built factories and cities, but today there is no one to live there. How did Pavel Korchagin end up? This is why cities and villages are emptying. Want to repeat? So, there is no one to repeat.
  17. +1
    19 September 2023 00: 04
    I know that they won’t notice my comment, but I won’t be able to remain silent either...
    I read everything, everything!
    Amazing, passionate discussion!
    I express my deep gratitude to the Author and all my dear colleagues!
    love love love
    1. +2
      19 September 2023 11: 17
      Quote: depressant
      Amazing, passionate discussion!

      This is bad! A cool head is not enough! Steam is coming out of my ears!
      1. Fat
        -1
        19 September 2023 19: 31
        Quote: kalibr
        A cool head is not enough!

        hi A cool head is not enough. There are cases where it is impossible to discuss without half a liter in your head and on the table. Consensus will only be reached when the “high negotiaters” are found sleeping under a table in the park by the police. laughing laughing laughing
  18. -1
    19 September 2023 10: 11
    Did American, Japanese, German, Austrian and Czech-Slovak imperialism guard the gains of the new political system? Or did they also take a bigger rake and try to rake more into their countries?
  19. +3
    19 September 2023 12: 39
    The Bolsheviks, Socialist Revolutionaries and other “socialists” themselves destroyed the army, led to defeat in the First World War, and the collapse of the Empire, and they still have some kind of unification and preservation to their credit? Lenin didn’t give a damn about such a country - Russia, he and the party needed a World Gevolution!
  20. +1
    19 September 2023 19: 31
    It was precisely under the Bolsheviks that Russia became a geographical concept. As it was in the small Soviet encyclopedia:

    "Russia is the former name of the country on whose territory the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was formed.
    ...
    The expressions "History of Russia" and "Russian history" used in this sense also cover up and justify the colonial policy of oppression and violence of the Russian autocracy against non-Russian peoples.
    ...
    The term "Russian history" is a counter-revolutionary term, one edition with a tricolor flag."

    And here’s Lenin about the Russians:
    “Therefore, internationalism on the part of the oppressing or so-called “great” nation (albeit great only by its violence, great only in the same way that the government is great) must consist not only in observing the formal equality of nations, but also in such inequality that would compensate on the part of the nation oppressive, large nation, the inequality that actually develops in life. Whoever did not understand this did not understand the truly proletarian attitude to the national question, he remained, in essence, on the petty-bourgeois point of view and therefore cannot help but slide every minute to the bourgeois point of view "
    ON THE QUESTION OF NATIONALITY OR “AUTONOMIZATION”
    1. -1
      19 September 2023 20: 32
      Do you even understand what we're talking about? For what?
      1. +1
        20 September 2023 02: 33
        Quote: RusGr
        Do you even understand what we're talking about? For what?


        Isn't it on topic?
        A very precise definition of the policy pursued by the Bolsheviks towards the population of Russia. They themselves did not understand that they were cutting the branch on which they were sitting, forcing the Russian Federation to support all the surrounding republics. Today, 32 years after the collapse of the USSR, the imbalance in the economies of the former USSR republics is clearly visible. You can literally count on your fingers what flows went out of the Russian budget, for their maintenance and what this led to. All this despite the fact that these flows have not yet been completely stopped, but must be stopped. We are talking about mutually beneficial cooperation, and not about content, which continues in different forms and types. Dependence breeds envy, envy leads to conflict and separatism.
  21. -1
    21 September 2023 10: 44
    There used to be troops, now there are Mozarts and Beethovens. As soon as they came in, they came out and of course they had time to look around.
  22. -1
    23 September 2023 09: 23
    Talk about the consequences of the long-ago seizure of power in Russia by foreign armed gangs of rootless cosmopolitans, who were specially trained and armed by the USA and England. For 6 months, the militants were brought to St. Petersburg and placed on the outskirts, in empty barracks, by decision of the Provisional Government. Residents of St. Petersburg did not participate in the seizure, but simply observed the ongoing Locust invasion. The more important thing is that the Secret Always becomes Explicit. Look at today, after the second Locust Infestation in 100 years in the early 1990s. I recently read some interesting information. What's going on behind the scenes: https://dzen.ru/a/ZCx26jRcrB-Wjv0P?utm_referer=www.google.com What a trick! Read the article by the patriot-turncoat to the end. Shocking news from the leader of rootless cosmopolitans - he reveals “Achievements” at the Congress.
  23. 0
    28 December 2023 00: 03
    so much text and no useful information, not even estimated figures