The use of hypersonic Kinzhal missiles from the Su-34 will add headaches to the Kyiv regime

It has become known that the Russian Aerospace Forces used a fighter-bomber as a carrier during a special military operation in Ukraine missiles "Dagger". We are talking about the Su-34 aircraft.

Thus, the Su-34 has become the next option for using the Kinzhal hypersonic missile system. Previously, the missiles of this complex were used to hit targets mainly from such carriers as MiG-31 fighters.

Information about the use of the "Dagger" from the Su-34 is confirmed by the information service TASS with reference to sources in the Russian Armed Forces.

Given this information, now we can say that the Kyiv regime will noticeably increase its headaches. After all, earlier a general air alert was announced at the moment when the MiG-31K, the carrier of the "Dagger", rose into the sky from the airfield on the territory of Belarus. Now, a general alarm in Ukraine will have to be announced with any appearance of Su-34 bombers in the sky, because it turns out that each of these aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces may turn out to be the carrier of the hypersonic "Dagger".

The military department noted that the first crew of the Su-34, which used the Kinzhal missile, was presented for state awards. Previously, the use of "Daggers" from such an aircraft was not reported.

Comments

[Nexcom]

Interesting information. But what, can the Su-34 accelerate in the same way as the MiG-31 in order to become the "first accelerating stage" of the Dagger air complex?
after all, it can’t ... How did you get out of the situation then? Add. upper stage for a rocket?

Threat to watch the launch video from the Su-34 .......

[Puz Big]

Most likely, when launched from drying, the range of the rocket drops slightly. Well, or speed, instead of 9 swings there will be 8 ...

[Glagol1]

Gotta pay. Both range and speed. But more boards. But I can't quite figure out where to hang it..,

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Nexcom

Interesting information. But what, can the Su-34 accelerate in the same way as the MiG-31 in order to become the "first accelerating stage" of the Dagger air complex?
after all, it can’t ... How did you get out of the situation then? Add. upper stage for a rocket?

In general, it is enough to drop a rocket from a great height, and then the momentum of the rocket engine will be spent not on overcoming gravity, but on acceleration.
The news is great.

[Nexcom]

No one argues that the news is excellent. The main thing is that this modernization takes place without significant losses in the characteristics of the Kinzhal complex. Now let the sharovarny shudder at every takeoff of 34 Sukhois.

then the momentum of the rocket engine will be spent not on overcoming gravity, but on acceleration.

I am not an aviator or a rocket scientist, and for general reasons I do not quite understand how this is possible. The rocket, when separated from the carrier, all the same, even having received a certain kinetic energy from the carrier, is attracted to the ground, it simply begins to fall like an ordinary air bomb. Therefore, in order to further accelerate, she needs to turn on her engine. Less carrier speed - more fuel costs for the rocket to reach its combat speed and less range is obtained .... if I don’t confuse anything ...

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Nexcom

I am not an aviator or a rocket scientist, but from general considerations I do not quite understand how this is possible. The rocket, when separated from the carrier, all the same, even having received a certain kinetic energy from the carrier, is attracted to the ground, it simply begins to fall like an ordinary air bomb.

Who is the rocket man? ))) But simple logic suggests that in order to reach a height of at least five or six km and gain at least some speed, a rocket needs to spend a lot of energy, and here it’s a freebie both in height and speed, and gravity rather helps than hinders, because No wonder there is the concept of "exchange of height for speed."
No, I don’t think that it will not even be significant, but a noticeable dip in performance.

[bayard]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

will not even be significant, but a noticeable dip in performance.

Even if the range of the "Kinzhal" when launched from the Su-34 decreases from 1500 to 1000 km after separation, this will be more than enough to achieve any targets in the air. But at the same time, the number of carriers of such missiles can be very seriously increased and diversified.

[Voronezh]

Well, for example, the dagger will have a speed of not 9 but 8 max, for the purpose at which it flies, in my opinion, there will not be much difference. Yes, and for air defense 404th probably too

[Nexcom]

Yes, for air defense ball joints and Mach 5 - fucking speed. How much does Patriot give? Mach 1.5-2?
At least on catch-up courses, it definitely won’t get it. But if on the counter-intercepting? Will the radar have time to track them and make an intercepting launch?

PS Again, sharovarnye will begin to demonstrate cuttings of water pipes as evidence of interception .....

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Nexcom

How much does Patriot give? Mach 1.5-2?

The maximum speed of the PAC-2 / PAC-3 is Mach 4,1.

[Puz Big]

Well, such a dagger will fly not for two thousand kilometers, but for one and a half, but in the vast majority of cases this is more than enough. And when the maximum range is needed, they will raise the Mig-31. Instants have an infinite resource, why waste it if you can get by with the Su-34.
In general, the idea of ​​​​an automatic unmanned drone for launching daggers suggests itself, with the most simplified and cheap design, sharpened exclusively for takeoff, reaching the desired course, acceleration, launch and departure to the base.

[A2AD]

In general, the idea of ​​​​an automatic unmanned drone for launching daggers suggests itself, with the most simplified and cheap design, sharpened exclusively for takeoff, reaching the desired course, acceleration, launch and departure to the base.

But does it make sense? Such a drone will be at least half an instant. At the same time, it is not good for anything else. Screw the extra step to the dagger.

[velikoros-xnumx]

Quote: Nexcom

No one argues that the news is excellent. The main thing is that this modernization takes place without significant losses in the characteristics of the Kinzhal complex. Now let the sharovarny shudder at every takeoff of 34 Sukhois.

then the momentum of the rocket engine will be spent not on overcoming gravity, but on acceleration.

I am not an aviator or a rocket scientist, and for general reasons I do not quite understand how this is possible. The rocket, when separated from the carrier, all the same, even having received a certain kinetic energy from the carrier, is attracted to the ground, it simply begins to fall like an ordinary air bomb. Therefore, in order to further accelerate, she needs to turn on her engine. Less carrier speed - more fuel costs for the rocket to reach its combat speed and less range is obtained .... if I don’t confuse anything ...

Daggers have never been used from “standard” Mig-31Ks at maximum speed. The descent is carried out without turning on the afterburners of the carrier engines, i.e. subsonic or transonic. Therefore, the type of carrier and its speed in this case do not affect the speed and range of the missile launch. In general, the use of missile weapons at maximum carrier speeds is not practiced due to a sharp weight imbalance during the launch of heavy missiles (and for the Su-34 and Mig-31 the dagger is a heavy missile), which can lead to loss of controllability of the carrier.
Most likely, only converted units will be able to use the dagger, as is the case with the MiG-31. It is unlikely that the standard pylons and mounts for the Su-34 are suitable for the dagger.

[A2AD]

In general, the use of missile weapons at maximum carrier speeds is not practiced due to a sharp weight imbalance during the descent of heavy missiles

That's just the 34th is designed for imbalance. Resetting 2 * 500 FABs is a regular job. But the MiG, yes, it’s more difficult there.

[corrado]

In this case, the drop height is increased to an additional 4.000 meters. The dagger flies, according to the characteristics from 12.000-15.000, i.e. With the Su-34, they would have to drop from 16.000-19.000. I don't think the Su-34 flies that high. Most likely, 10 mahs are not really needed to overcome enemy air defense. Enough and 5-6. Therefore, the Su-34 acted as a carrier.
Here is a simplified formula for the conservation of energy:
V²×m=V²×m+m×g×h
Where the desired rocket speed is taken on the left, and the carrier speed is taken on the right. Thus, we reach the indicator of additional height.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: corrado

reset from 16.000-19.000. I don’t think the Su-34 flies that high

Not that much, but close to it:
Practical ceiling of the Su-34: 14650 - 17 m.
But the MiG-31 flies much higher:
Service ceiling: up to 30000 m (dynamic), up to 21500 m (practical).

[osp]

The MiG-31 has not been flying at the planned heights and speeds for a long time.
Problems with the strength of the glazing of the lantern and organic glass have not been done to it for a long time.
15-17 kilometers, no more.

And problems with high-altitude crew equipment.
GSh-6 has not been made for a long time and there were even problems with the repair of these helmets.

And for the Su-34, the ceiling does not exceed 14 km at all, and even with such a load.
The plane is too heavy.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote from osp

problems with high-altitude crew equipment.
GSh-6 has not been made for a long time and there were even problems with the repair of these pressure helmets ..

I’ll tell you one tricky thing, just don’t be upset: GSh-6 has long been out of circulation ... and there is a replacement

[Zoer]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

In general, it is enough to drop a rocket from a great height, and then the momentum of the rocket engine will be spent not on overcoming gravity, but on acceleration.

Nonsense nonsense! At those speeds, when falling, even from a height of 20 km, there will only be braking from the effects of the atmosphere, but not acceleration at all.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Zoer

Nonsense nonsense! At those speeds, when falling, even from a height of 20 km, there will only be braking from the effects of the atmosphere, but not acceleration at all.

Hello, to slow down, you need to accelerate.

[CAMS]

Ghrisha or Styopa, or John... you work primitively)))... I wish you would never be able to watch due to your stupidity)))
I've been registered on this dump for a long time and I realized that there are such khokhlodbils grazing here who don't even understand what they write. Watch on YouTube how he will destroy another headquarters, warehouse or your office. "I wish I could see it" ))) he has no brains...

[sivuch]

Well, there was information that they were going to drop the Dagger from Backfire, whose speed and ceiling were also not very good (compared to the Mig-31, of course). It’s likely that the missile’s performance characteristics sagged during launch from the platypus, but it’s unlikely to be critical. And we probably had to strengthen the carrier's airframe.

[A2AD]

Probably, when launching from a platypus, the performance characteristics of the missiles sank, but it is hardly critical. And for sure I had to strengthen the airframe of the carrier.

No one will change the glider. For .... But because. On the other hand, the 34th is a bomber since birth. Even if not under the wings. But in the center for such weights should be calculated. So it's just a matter of fastening.

[SovAr238A]

Quote from A2AD

Probably, when launching from a platypus, the performance characteristics of the missiles sank, but it is hardly critical. And for sure I had to strengthen the airframe of the carrier.

No one will change the glider. For .... But because. On the other hand, the 34th is a bomber since birth. Even if not under the wings. But in the center for such weights should be calculated. So it's just a matter of fastening.

Not calculated.
PTB-2000 is placed there as much as possible.
And it occupies the entire volume.
There were no photos with a real PTB -3000, only all sorts of fantasies.
Accordingly, to hang an 8 meter, 4.5 ton contraption there, especially understanding the dimensions of the Su-34, the location and dimensions of its front strut and the fact that it folds back, makes it extremely unlikely to use standard suspension units for a dagger

[A2AD]

Not calculated.
PTB-2000 is placed there as much as possible.
And it occupies the entire volume.

The MiG-31 was generally designed for 4-8 BBs. But somehow they pushed it in. I agree, I forgot about the stand. But here you have to look / count. But in general, IMHO, the 34th seems to be a more suitable carrier than the 31st. This is not counting the speed and the ceiling.

[A2AD]

I take my words back.
4 r-33 is the same almost 2 tons.
Maybe you are right 34mu needs alterations no less than 31mu.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Nexcom

can the Su-34 accelerate in the same way as the MiG-31 to become the "first booster stage" of the Dagger air complex?
because it can't...

The point is not in the "boost" stage (supersonic speed is needed for a ramjet to "start up", but not for a solid propellant rocket motor) but in the ascent to the launch altitude, in saving energy for the ascent to this altitude. That is, the point is not in speed, but in altitude - overcoming the Earth's gravity and saving energy for the solid propellant rocket motor. After the ABR is released, it goes into the stratosphere with a gain in altitude and accelerates there to the main stage. The disadvantages of this carrier are fully compensated by the advantages of the new launch algorithm: it is more advantageous to use the Su-34 than the MiG-31K.

We are talking about expanding the range of Su-34 weapons, and this has certain advantages. There is unification, there is flexibility in solving problems.
If the number of MiG-31Ks is limited, then the Su-34s are over 200. The number of Kinzhal carriers has increased, which means that there are more targets to hit. The Su-34 is the "workhorse" of the airborne forces, which will work out the use of the "Dagger" both on land and sea targets.
In terms of sighting and navigation system, the capabilities of the Su-34 are several times higher than those of the MiG-31. This is very important for the launch of the "Daggers". Coordinating actions to exit exactly to the Kinzhal launch point is a key moment. It is necessary to give the rocket an initial launch with the desired course and with the parameters that are included in the program of its flight. This improves the accuracy of hitting the target. In this sense, the Su-34 has higher capabilities than the MiG-31.
When reaching the desired launch point at a set speed and with a given course, it is required to adjust the flight mode of the "Dagger" less. This is an aeroballistic means of air attack. He can dive, pitch, go left or right. After all, one of the features of the "Dagger" is precisely that it can maneuver to bypass enemy air defense systems.
Su-34, just like the MiG-31, can take "under the belly" - on an external sling under the fuselage - one "Dagger" missile

This is from an interview with Mr. Popov's stock to Novosti.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: BoA KAA

Quote: Nexcom

can the Su-34 accelerate in the same way as the MiG-31 to become the "first booster stage" of the Dagger air complex?
because it can't...

The point is not in the "boost" stage (supersonic speed is needed for a ramjet to "start up", but not for a solid propellant rocket motor) but in the ascent to the launch altitude, in saving energy for the ascent to this altitude. That is, the point is not in speed, but in altitude - overcoming the Earth's gravity and saving energy for the solid propellant rocket motor. After the ABR is released, it goes into the stratosphere with a gain in altitude and accelerates there to the main stage. The disadvantages of this carrier are fully compensated by the advantages of the new launch algorithm: it is more advantageous to use the Su-34 than the MiG-31K.

We are talking about expanding the range of Su-34 weapons, and this has certain advantages. There is unification, there is flexibility in solving problems.
If the number of MiG-31Ks is limited, then the Su-34s are over 200. The number of Kinzhal carriers has increased, which means that there are more targets to hit. The Su-34 is the "workhorse" of the airborne forces, which will work out the use of the "Dagger" both on land and sea targets.
In terms of sighting and navigation system, the capabilities of the Su-34 are several times higher than those of the MiG-31. This is very important for the launch of the "Daggers". Coordinating actions to exit exactly to the Kinzhal launch point is a key moment. It is necessary to give the rocket an initial launch with the desired course and with the parameters that are included in the program of its flight. This improves the accuracy of hitting the target. In this sense, the Su-34 has higher capabilities than the MiG-31.
When reaching the desired launch point at a set speed and with a given course, it is required to adjust the flight mode of the "Dagger" less. This is an aeroballistic means of air attack. He can dive, pitch, go left or right. After all, one of the features of the "Dagger" is precisely that it can maneuver to bypass enemy air defense systems.
Su-34, just like the MiG-31, can take "under the belly" - on an external sling under the fuselage - one "Dagger" missile

This is from an interview with Mr. Popov's stock to Novosti.

In order for the Su-34 to take the Dagger under its belly, it also needs to be completely reassembled ... The entire fuselage should be disassembled and reassembled reinforced. For it is necessary to completely change the fastening system of a rocket weighing 4-5 tons.
Not provided for by the design of the aircraft in principle.
Therefore, the Su-34 in the role of the carrier of the Dagger can be the same piece in the production of operation.
Serial machines for carrying the Dagger are incapable in principle.

[A2AD]

The entire fuselage is disassembled and reassembled reinforced. For it is necessary to completely change the fastening system of a rocket weighing 4-5 tons.

Actually, it seems like there, "under the belly", 3 tons fit in as standard. Where can I get another XNUMX tons? But the MiG didn't even have that.

[陈乐为]

Until that time, only unguided aerial bombs existed.

[Mityasha]

Until this time - until when? Adjustable bombs have been in service with us for a long time. Not so long ago there were planners.

[dmi.pris1]

As I understand it, when using this rocket, the plane must be dispersed by Mach by at least two.

[mark1]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

the plane must be dispersed by Mach by two at least.

It turns out that it is not necessary, considering that the max. speed without external suspension = 1,8M, the range is simply reduced (as an example, use with the Tu-22M3). You can follow the Chinese path to maintain range - install an accelerating stage on the rocket (maybe this is even done)

[Nexcom]

You can follow the Chinese path to maintain range - install an upper stage on a rocket (maybe even done that)

Here, I immediately asked about this above. If additional the booster block means the mass of the Dagger and its length will obviously increase .... With all the ensuing consequences.

[Sergei N 58912062]

Bang them there...

They should have been killed a long time ago!

[Bodipancher]

Excellent news, the MiG 31 is an outstanding aircraft, but there are few of them in the troops and it is no longer produced. Now the VKS essentially has unlimited possibilities for using hypersonic weapons.

[Voronezh]

Mig 31 is no longer in production. Conversion to 31K transforms it from an interceptor into a carrier. Su34 can be made in different versions, so the decision is absolutely correct. What about speeds and ranges, I think no one will tell us the truth

[Nexcom]

It is a pity that the 31st is no longer produced. The only plane that could catch up with the Blackbird. And not only him ..... There was no equal to him in speed and still is not.
And their resource and quantity are limited .... sorry.

[sanja.grw]

Quote: Nexcom

It's a pity that the 31st is no longer produced. The only plane that could catch up with the Blackbird. And not only him....

Are you talking about the 25th

[Nexcom]

Do they produce the 31st???
_______________________________

[A2AD]

It is a pity that the 31st is no longer produced. The only plane that could catch up with the Blackbird.

This is why it is not released. The thrushes all died naturally. And the MiG, for all its uniqueness, has become redundant.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote from A2AD

The thrushes all died naturally..

If this is bullshit natural waythen of course yes. But there is an opinion that even the amers did not pull 2,5 lyama for the most ordinary flight.
By the way, Shabu is the only combat aircraft at that time that did not miss a single conflict and was never shot down.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Nexcom

It is a pity that the 31st is no longer produced. The only plane that could catch up with the Blackbird. And not only him ..... There was no equal to him in speed and still is not.
And their resource and quantity are limited .... sorry.

Never armed MiG-25/31 could catch up with the Blackbird.
Even with a semi-recessed suspension.
Do not confuse sports speed records with real combat vehicles.

[A2AD]

Do not confuse sports speed records with real combat vehicles.

So the MiGs in real life didn’t seem to be chasing blackbirds. And the speed of a thrush is the same from advertising brochures.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote from A2AD

Do not confuse sports speed records with real combat vehicles.

So the MiGs in real life didn’t seem to be chasing blackbirds. And the speed of a thrush is the same from advertising brochures.

31 was the only one who could drive the SR away, catch up no, but make it turn around - yes. The equipment allowed
And the SR flew at advertised speeds of 3,2M, that's a fact too.

[Sergey39]

I suppose that the main thing in an airplane is not speed, but the carrying capacity and ceiling height. After all, the Dagger weighs 4300 kg and the launch height is 18000 m. The length of the rocket is 8 m. Not every aircraft will pull such a rocket to a great height. The rocket picks up speed in a rarefied space, it is not for nothing that all high-speed and hypersonic missiles go to great heights.

[A2AD]

I suppose that the main thing in an airplane is not speed, but the carrying capacity and ceiling height.

It would be so simple - they would launch from balloons.

[Nyrobsky]

I wonder what object was chosen for the Dagger as a target? They won’t waste such a thing on nonsense.
Apparently we need to wait for news in the foreign media that somewhere in Australia or South Korea a bus with marines fell into an abyss or that some general was pecked to death by a rabid toucan.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: Nyrobsky

wait for news in the foreign media that somewhere in Australia or South Korea a bus with marines fell into an abyss or that some general was pecked to death by a rabid toucan.

Bitten by a rabid capybara

in the ass and out of shame he shot himself in the head with a large-caliber machine gun.

[Petio]

Or maybe they still used another product - known as GZUR?

[ppgt90]

The news itself is excellent. But the comments are downright bewildering. Why are they suddenly talking about some kind of modernization of the "Kinzhal"? The Ministry of Defense announced the LAUNCH OF A "Kinzhal" MISSILE FROM BOARD A SU-34!!! By what signs did they determine the modernization? Because not from a MIG? Isn't it clear that the performance characteristics ARE NOT SUBJECT TO DISCLOSURE!!! I don't even want to get involved in useless chatter. You need to understand that the information in the media is VERY VAGUE AND DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND. This information can't even be called general. And here the indoor designers have already started a discussion. Launched? YES!!! Completed the task? YES!!! THAT'S IT. There is no more need to discuss without really knowing the subject.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: ppgt90

The news itself is excellent. But the comments are downright bewildering. Why are they suddenly talking about some kind of modernization of the "Kinzhal"? The Ministry of Defense announced the LAUNCH OF A "Kinzhal" MISSILE FROM BOARD A SU-34!!! By what signs did they determine the modernization? Because not from a MIG? Isn't it clear that the performance characteristics ARE NOT SUBJECT TO DISCLOSURE!!! I don't even want to get involved in useless chatter. You need to understand that the information in the media is VERY VAGUE AND DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND. This information can't even be called general. And here the indoor designers have already started a discussion. Launched? YES!!! Completed the task? YES!!! THAT'S IT. There is no more need to discuss without really knowing the subject.

This is a military-technical resource. There used to be a lot of technically literate people here.
There are many people who are good at physics.
Who discussed technical parameters.
And now one filth of illiterate turbochargers.

[Emperor_Alive]

https://t.me/fighter_bomber/13872

Almost verbatim))))

The news about the Dagger is certainly beautiful. And I believe that the Su-34 will still show itself in all its glory with the latest weapons.
But, ..., what ... "Dagger" on the Su-34?

I think a broken telephone worked here. Indeed, a couple of days ago a Su-34 fired its newest weapon at the hohols, a weapon that I will tell you about tomorrow, if those majors don't ring my phone off the hook today, and there is something to reward the crew for, but I don't know what the "Dagger" has to do with it.
Maybe not every "source in the Moscow Region" can pronounce the new name, but "Dagger" can.

In general, change the word "Dagger" to another name and it will be fine. )
I'm sure, Ukrainians already evaluated the new weapon. We are waiting for OK from the side UkrainiansLet's talk specifically.
(end of quote)

[A2AD]

I think it's a broken phone. Indeed, a couple of days ago, the Su-34 gasped with the latest weapon on Ukrainians, a weapon that I will tell you about tomorrow, if the majors don’t cut off my phone today, and there is something to reward the crew for, but I don’t know what the “Dagger” has to do with it .

That's what I think it is. Fencing a garden on the 34th without changing the rocket is somehow meaningless. Rather, the news should sound ... The modified Su-34K launched an X-xx missile created on the basis of the "dagger".
Bomber can be trusted. In such cases, he really fumbles. And I agree with him 34th has not yet revealed its full potential.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote from A2AD

Bomber can be trusted. In such cases, he really fumbles. And I agree with him 34th has not yet revealed its full potential.

FB fumbles, and knows perfectly well that the 34th is not able to provide the initial conditions for launching the 9-A-7660, well, it was not created for such modes. Let's wait a bit...
TASS forever

[petrol cutter]

And this is wonderful.
When will our headaches decrease? That's what I'd like to understand?

[velikoros-xnumx]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

As I understand it, when using this rocket, the plane must be dispersed by Mach by at least two.

Wrong understand.
I can’t even imagine where such thoughts about “at least two Machs” come from, logic and minimal knowledge of the materiel are completely absent.
Sorry for the bluntness.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: velikoros-xnumx

logic and minimal knowledge of the materiel are completely absent.
Sorry for the bluntness.

Do you have a minimum knowledge of materiel? It is commendable…. And what is the maximum speed 34 with a similar load? And what is the minimum speed for issuing PR for the X-47M2? You see the difference ... but it is