"Illegal armed formation": State Duma deputy General Sobolev spoke about the future of PMC "Wagner"

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"Illegal armed formation": State Duma deputy General Sobolev spoke about the future of PMC "Wagner"

PMC "Wagner" is an illegal armed group, in Russia there should not be such organizations. The State Duma deputy from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, General Viktor Sobolev spoke about the future of the "Orchestra".

According to the general, the Wagner group will cease to exist in its current form after the death of Prigozhin. According to him, "Orchestra" is an illegal armed group, because it is not controlled by the state. Therefore, PMCs must be disbanded, some of the fighters should be transferred to the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Defense, and some should be sent home. Moreover, only those who did not participate in the rebellion will be able to sign a contract with the Ministry of Defense. Apparently, the general intends to send the rest to civilian life.



The Wagner Group will cease to exist. The fighters will be able to go into civilian life or sign a contract with the Moscow Region. This is an illegal armed formation. There should not be any armed people in the state who are not subordinate to the state. As a result, this led to a rebellion. We were on the brink of civil war

Sobolev said.

It is worth noting that Sobolev categorically opposes the very existence of Wagner PMC. In the spring of this year, he already had a conflict with the group's curator Yevgeny Prigozhin after the general called the "Orchestra" an "illegal military formation" and threatened with criminal liability those mobilized who wanted to go to the "musicians".

PMC is an illegal armed formation. It is not clear where it is registered and what tasks it performs

- he said.

In response, Prigozhin called Sobolev a "brainless talker" and invited him to go to the front, where he would show by his personal example how to fight. It is worth noting that earlier Sobolev advocated a complete ban on military personnel in the NVO zone from wearing beards.
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    1. +77
      August 28 2023
      Sobolev's dream came true.
      Russia no longer has Wagner.
      And Prigogine is gone.
      And Sobolev is. True, he is not at the front either.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +38
          August 28 2023
          Quote from Orange Bigg
          But can this be fixed? Let him show by personal example. At the front.
          People like him have always been in the army, and always will be. But you don't need him to the front. he will fight there so much that then he will have to regroup for 3 months. It's better to retire them.
          1. +28
            August 28 2023
            Quote from: topol717
            People like him have always been in the army, and always will be.

            Are his statements foolishness or deliberate wrecking, for the split of society and social tension? In any case, such figures must be driven from everywhere, so as not to sow confusion!
            1. TIR
              +12
              August 28 2023
              Previously, these were sent to the taiga to cut down forests. And he will not destroy his subordinates and will not dissolve the distemper with words. He also doesn’t know how to work, so he holds an ax in his hands and chop branches. At least some benefit. As they say, with a black sheep, at least a tuft of wool
            2. +6
              August 28 2023
              Quote: carpenter
              Are his statements foolishness or deliberate wrecking, for the split of society and social tension? In any case, such figures must be driven from everywhere, so as not to sow confusion!

              Member of the Communist Party.
              1. +8
                August 28 2023
                Dementia pills for the general!!! And more.
              2. 0
                August 29 2023
                Quote: Alex777
                Quote: carpenter
                Are his statements foolishness or deliberate wrecking, for the split of society and social tension? In any case, such figures must be driven from everywhere, so as not to sow confusion!

                Member of the Communist Party.

                Conscious wrecking, for the split of society and the warming up of social tension is just a note.
                Something when Medvedev is quoted does not emphasize his belonging to the United Russia.
                1. -2
                  August 29 2023
                  Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
                  Member of the Communist Party.

                  Conscious wrecking, for the split of society and the warming up of social tension is just a note.
                  Something when Medvedev is quoted does not emphasize his belonging to the United Russia

                  Dude, don't be so upset. As they say - in a large family, not without a freak (c) Russian folk Yes laughing
                2. -1
                  August 29 2023
                  Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
                  Something when Medvedev is quoted does not emphasize his belonging to the United Russia.

                  Formally, he is the leader of this party. ruling party.
                3. 0
                  August 30 2023
                  Far not only Medvedev. Almost all the figures from the corridors of power who spread the blizzard about the Northern Military District and our army are from United Russia or associated with it. Although, of course, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, under the cunning leadership of the compromiser Zyu, is increasingly sliding towards their level.
              3. +3
                August 29 2023
                Quote: Alex777
                Member of the Communist Party.

                And this is a disgrace to this party. If the Party thinks about the honor and purity of its ranks, such a windbag must be driven out of both the deputy and the Party. To not get dirty.
                1. +1
                  August 29 2023
                  It has long been a shame in the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, there is nothing to dirty already.
              4. +5
                August 29 2023
                A-tu his, a-tu!!! Let's kill the stupid general to the fullest .... and then we'll think about what he said that was so criminal? He just repeated what EVERYONE said when the coup or Prigozhin's march on Moscow began - There should not be military formations in the state that are not specified by law. And what, anyone against such a definition? It does not mean at all that PMCs should be directly subordinate to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation or the Russian Guard, but must be subordinate to the State in the person of someone determined by the LAW. Yes, in essence, it was so and it is impossible to imagine that our PMC was absolutely beyond the control of anyone and did what she wanted and where she wanted. We are talking only about an organization that is understandable and controlled by the State, and not about merging it into an ordinary military unit.
                1. +1
                  August 29 2023
                  There are no less fools in civilian life, they are just not as visible as in the army. But the army more often allows fools with stars on uniform to show their stupidity. But where is the line and who will decide what is stupidity and what is the requirement of discipline with unity of command?
                  Some smart guy will say why make a bed in the barracks. if you go back to bed in the evening?
                  Another, a little dumber, will decide that the pillow does not have to be placed on the corner and flush with the neighbor's bunks. The smartest one will decide that it’s not worth undressing at night if you dress again in the morning ... So tell me, how can all these smart people be brought to a common denominator? The shortest way - I'm the boss, you d...! "The commander said a hork, and no gophers!"
                2. 0
                  August 30 2023
                  As lawyers say, de jure Wagner was an illegal armed group, and de facto this VF was created by the highest authority for various kinds of, so to speak, delicate assignments, so that it was possible to act without being bound by the law. Therefore, it acted generally in the interests of Russia and did not go against the highest authorities. Except that it has only recently begun to get out of her control. Hence the fall of its leaders.
                3. 0
                  August 30 2023
                  Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                  A-tu his, a-tu!!! Let's kill the stupid general to the fullest .... and then we'll think about what he said that was so criminal? He just repeated what EVERYONE said when the coup or Prigozhin's march on Moscow began - There should not be military formations in the state that are not specified by law. And what, anyone against such a definition? It does not mean at all that PMCs should be directly subordinate to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation or the Russian Guard, but must be subordinate to the State in the person of someone determined by the LAW. Yes, in essence, it was so and it is impossible to imagine that our PMC was absolutely beyond the control of anyone and did what she wanted and where she wanted. We are talking only about an organization that is understandable and controlled by the State, and not about merging it into an ordinary military unit.

                  Hello! Explain then why then do you need this PMC if it is subordinate to the Ministry of Defense or the National Guard? There that there are no such structures or what? Damn, in general! The PMC is good because formally it is not subordinate to either the Moscow Region or the Russian Guard, and it can be hired to perform certain tasks and ... neither the Moscow Region, nor the Russian Guard, nor, as it were, the state, have nothing to do with it! This, as it were, is already clear to everyone, there is not one wide-armed general ossified in the 70s, not even people with Vo at close range do not want to see it. There must be a law, but it is a law of registration, not of subordination! The law governs everything, as in the United States or other countries. I'll tell you a secret, Wagner is not the only PMC, just better known. And they did not appear now, when some leftists began to multiply. Have you heard anything about PMC Leopard? And I read about him at the same Gracheva, back in the noughties!
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. +4
              August 28 2023
              If there are people like this type in the General Staff, I don't envy us...
              1. -1
                August 29 2023
                Quote: Dart
                If there are people like this type in the General Staff, I don't envy us...

                If each oligarchic group has its own illegal armed formation (and it is going to), then you will not envy Honduras. hi
                1. +4
                  August 29 2023
                  Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
                  If each oligarchic group has its own illegal armed formation

                  Wagner reported to the President. He himself said this - that Prigozhin, at his request, worked for the good of the Motherland.
                  But the fact that Deripaska is trying to create something for himself ... and Shoyga ... is not good.
                2. -2
                  August 29 2023
                  Or maybe just this is the so-called HPP?
              2. -1
                August 29 2023
                Do you seriously think there are others out there? I sincerely envy your optimism and clearness of consciousness. winked
            5. +9
              August 29 2023
              Quote: carpenter
              Are his statements foolishness or deliberate wrecking, for the split of society and social tension? In any case, such figures must be driven from everywhere, so as not to sow confusion!

              And from the Duma - in the first place.
              Wagner has never been a PMC in the full sense of the word. It was a tool for external tasks, and these tasks were solved successfully. If not for the NWO, we would continue to hear about Wagner exclusively from events in Syria, Africa ... maybe Latin America. But the Motherland needed their help in the Donbass and used. But the conflict with the Moscow Region did not arise from scratch.
              Perhaps Wagner now has extra publicity and does not need it, but the Motherland needs them. And Motherland is not an empty phrase for them.
              But empty sounds are made by a certain deputy. And it's dividing the society.
              Pay tribute to the fallen Heroes (and they are all Heroes of Russia) and don't let the talkers talk.
            6. 0
              August 29 2023
              According to the well-known postulate "The more oaks in the army, the stronger our defense", when conferring the rank of general and presenting a hopeless epaulette with an embroidered star, the mental abilities of a serviceman decrease by an order of magnitude, and with each subsequent embroidered star this process is repeated.
            7. +3
              August 29 2023
              The general calls to comply with the laws of the country in whose army he serves. Really, I have never seen more stupidity.
            8. +2
              August 29 2023
              His statements are stupidity or deliberate sabotage,
              Definitely stupidity. From the experience of my service in the army, I know that there is a category of chiefs for whom the main thing is the ability to walk in formation, correctly sewn on centimeters, buttonholes, epaulettes, chevrons, placed insignia, badges, blocks. These are inspectors who come to drill reviews with rulers, generals who arrange a search of soldiers' bedside tables, knapsacks and disturbing suitcases. And that is what they see as their purpose. peacetime general. And if in peacetime there is little benefit from such people, but also little harm, then in wartime they cannot be sent to the front, they will put people in batches. There is nothing like that in a war.
          2. +1
            August 28 2023
            Well, why not go to the front, just a corporal, an attack aircraft and not a general, let him sip soldier cabbage soup am
            1. +1
              August 29 2023
              so he swallowed them in Chechnya. Google to the rescue.
              1. +10
                August 29 2023
                Many Wagner slurped in Chechnya. And what this slurped ... and what ... is no longer important. He was already trying to fight with beards in the Donbass (!!) ... combs at what angle in his pocket, it seems, also checked ... and collars.
                It would be better if I bought copters or teplaks for the deputy salary.
                But of course it's not about him.
              2. 0
                August 29 2023
                Getting a "gene" in Chechnya is actually a so-so story, with a smell.
          3. +19
            August 28 2023
            He has been retired for a long time.
            His words have no effect.
            Although, PMCs really
            formally illegal, there is no law - so far.
            This probably led to a certain loss of control and a fair bucket,
            not a spoon, fly in the ointment
            Wagner honey. Yes, and to the death of the curator who imagined himself indispensable.
            We need to make military service such that talented, albeit characteristic, "uncomfortable" people do not go to various structures, but serve in the RA.
            And if it is necessary to use offices like PMCs where it is necessary, then so that in the process they do not degenerate into a private shop of immoderate ambitions. It will be better for them.
            1. +9
              August 29 2023
              Quote: Alekseev
              We need to make military service such that talented, albeit characteristic, "uncomfortable" people do not go to various structures, but serve in the RA.

              It was because of people like Shoiga, Gerasimov and this pensioner that the best officers, the most literate and talented army left. And careers were made by such ... as these three.
              It was a conflict of honor , professionalism and courage , with mediocre but aggressive stupidity , greed and vindictiveness . And until order is restored in the upper echelon, such conflicts will continue.
              And yes - their entire Little mercenary army fled at the very beginning of the NWO ... the army of "military mortgage holders". Now volunteers and mobilized people are fighting at the front. Well, at least the Airborne Forces and the MP did not drop their honor.
              They built an army for themselves ... that's how they got it.
              Now l / s and the officer corps to the middle level, it is already completely different ... but the tops have remained the same. Hence the conflict.
              Quote: Alekseev
              so if where it is necessary and use offices like PMCs

              Wagner was created as an external instrument of Russian diplomacy.
              External .
              And obeyed Putin. He himself said about it the other day. That is why they have the highest state awards.
              But the fact that all sorts of Deripaskas and the like, and even Shoyga ... create their own PMCs for THEMSELVES ... This is unacceptable. And it is these formations that are illegal.
              And Wagner is registered in Africa.
              And they were officially INVITED to Russia. For a contract. And Shoiga did not want to fulfill the contract. Delayed payments. Especially for the wounded and the dead ... And it was about THIS that the Wagners were silent. Not wanting to cast a shadow on the president.
              And yes, remind me WHOSE son served in Wagner under a contract in NWO? Like even two terms? Isn't it Peskov?
              1. +8
                August 29 2023
                As for Peskov's sons, these, unfortunately, were just rotten show-offs and panaches from the fragile youthful brain. The boy had already confessed and repented of everything. He did not serve there. But in everything else, I completely agree with you. "Wagner" was created as a cosplay from the American "Academy" and as an exclusively foreign policy tool, so to speak, the "left hand" of the Russian Foreign Ministry. And the fact that he was invited to the Russian Federation was a necessary measure, when it suddenly became clear that the Mighty Army of the Great Nuclear Power was not able to fight the recent Banderlog villagers, but somehow it was necessary to keep the front. And all this supposedly armed rebellion of the "Wagners" in reality was just a "dispute between two economic entities", which simply turned into a criminal showdown between the commerce and the lads, which arose because of the irrepressible desire of the commerce (MO RF) to throw the lads (Wagner) at the money, what to do in the first place, not according to the concepts, and secondly, the neck is a big problem. As the whole world history shows, if the "sovereign's army" in reality turned out to be so incapable of combat that it was forced to resort to the services of mercenaries, then the mercenaries must be paid in full, and throwing mercenaries on grandmas comes out more expensive.
            2. +5
              August 29 2023
              If, for some reason, the RA suddenly begins to tolerate "talented, albeit characteristic" uncomfortable "people, then it will no longer be a modern RA, perhaps it will be the Army of some other state, but definitely not the Russian one. Such talented but inconvenient the authorities try to endure people with their last strength even during the war, because someone still needs to fight and win - the top leadership demands it. pension, otherwise they may try to imprison. Well, in civilian life, such people do not have a very large choice, they mostly go to bandos. And it is very good that such a structure as PMCs has appeared, where such people can reveal their talents to the fullest. But if only the state should at least try to appoint some "general" from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation as the curator of such a structure, then consider the FSO on this. The shop can be closed. Just another state structure with a bottomless budget and zero efficiency will arise.
              1. -4
                August 29 2023
                uncle_Rustam, what about some of the nuances of army life? Guys from Dagestan or Chechnya come to military service in whom washing floors or dishes is considered below manhood. And to clean the latrine (toilet) at all ... it’s better to shoot yourself. Do you propose to make separate military units for them with civilian Russians who do not have these show-offs? And I also remember how some refused to eat pork ... True, their stamina was enough for a couple of days of hunger, and then Allah turned a blind eye to their sin and forgave them any food. Or how many especially "talented" people came from the capital's beau monde? But all their "talent" consisted in zhlobstvo and metropolitan snobbery, which was quickly corroded by stupid, mocking discipline, and not by conversations in the Lenin Room. How will you sort and select these "talented" for PMCs, bypassing the stupid generals of the Moscow Region, on what grounds?
                1. +5
                  August 29 2023
                  Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                  Guys from Dagestan or Chechnya come to military service for whom washing floors or dishes is considered below manhood

                  It's below the knees, right? Stop... all this rotten excuses oriental legends. Called up for military service - is "on a military campaign", there is no "women's work".

                  Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                  And to clean the latrine (toilet) at all ... it’s better to shoot yourself

                  Another legend. If you are an officer, and not God forgive me, everyone will wash everything with you. With diligence.
                  1. 0
                    August 29 2023
                    Repellent, I don’t know how it was with you in military service, but my officers didn’t get dirty by monitoring the tidying on the ship or in the cockpit on the shore. For this, there were enough "years" in the crew, who coped better than any officer. But in our country, for any submarine crews, there were no more than 5-10 Muslims per hundred others. They were simply not allowed to gather in organized groups. But what my friends who went through a construction battalion or infantry (motorized rifle units) in the 90s, where there were diasporas, told me, it was difficult to deal with this phenomenon. And even the officers were afraid to deal with this problem, trying not to notice anything.
                    1. 0
                      August 29 2023
                      Well, it’s precisely because the officer’s gAspad consider it below their dignity to get dirty by observing the tidy and other, in their opinion, meaningless garbage, subsequently interesting cases happen when these very gentlemen of the officers are then sent openly by three funny letters . And then these very officer’s gaspadas are also very surprised, and some are even offended, but how could this happen at all? bully
                2. 0
                  August 29 2023
                  Well, for starters, let's start with religion, as in a sense, I am a hereditary Muslim (although I can rather be classified as agnostic), I think I understand a little about this. Well, from the moment a young Muslim guy was drafted into the army, from the point of view of Islam, he goes on a military campaign, begins to belong to the military elite, becomes a "shaheed" (underline as appropriate) and, according to Islam, many "harams" (religious prohibitions on the commission of certain actions) in relation to him lose their force. Like: eating pork, drinking "fire water", doing "women's work", growing a mustache, performing prayer after sunset, etc., etc., including killing a person. As they say, in war, as in war. In the same Afghan, a captive soul remarkably sucked water out of a glass and ate pork stew.))) So all these allegedly religious show-offs on the topic of washing floors, cleaning glasses, etc. are various irresponsible young men, mainly from the North. The Caucasians simply cover up their unwillingness to do this, there is no "women's work" in the army, all work in the army is men's. Another thing is that a lot of officers from the Slavs either fall for this type of Muslim wiring, or are simply afraid to get involved with guys from these nationalities, knowing that behind them there is a powerful national diaspora, and the officer is still a person, and nothing human, including fear, is alien to him. Well, and besides, given the national policy pursued by the leadership of the first USSR, and now the Russian Federation, such a position of an officer can be understood. How to deal with this is not a question of my pension, but my personal opinion is that the creation of units such as the "Wild Division" of tsarist times could, to some extent, solve this problem. When around you there are only people like yourself, it will be much more difficult to throw pseudo-religious show-offs, work is work and you need to do it, but there are no Russians who can easily be plowed into this work. There are no more in the district.)) ))
                3. 0
                  August 29 2023
                  Well, now about the selection of personnel for PMCs, such as "Wagner" As far as I know, quite adult men from the Special Forces of the GRU General Staff and other similar structures went to this structure, which, given the fundamental principle of the regular AFRF - "I am the boss", they understood that they had already reached the ceiling of their military career, but their temperament and inner charisma did not allow them to simply sit on their ass and count the calendars that remained until their retirement. So it’s unlikely that you could find people from the capital’s beau monde for this structure, and if a miracle suddenly happened and such an instance did fall into such a structure for various reasons, then it had only two options: 1 or just shove it right away all your show-offs to yourself in the anus and become the same as everyone else, 2 immediately dump from there. for PMCs are still not the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, and no such structure will tolerate such slag in itself. There, people are doing real work, and not what "generals" and "hey, colonels" from the "Arbat Military District" usually do. And it is precisely for this reason that I personally believe that the appointment of one of these "generals" as the curators of PMCs will simply destroy the very idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbPMCs as a mobile and effective private structure. On the one hand, the fact that she belongs to the RF Ministry of Defense will immediately become well known and her function as the "left hand" of the Russian Foreign Ministry will be reduced to nothing, and secondly, and in my opinion, this is much more dangerous, kickbacks will immediately begin there, drank the budget, irresistible the desire to negotiate with everyone, even with those with whom it is impossible in principle to negotiate, etc., etc. In short, all this will be covered with a large "copper basin". And that's where it all ends.
          4. +9
            August 28 2023
            It's better to retire them.

            Those. people like me will work, and people like him will get a good pension at our expense? Let the northern latitudinal passage go to finish building!
          5. -1
            August 28 2023
            You don’t understand, my friend, to the front as an PRIVATE fighter ..........................
          6. -2
            August 28 2023
            ... and in the Duma there is no need for it ... ON THE SOFA! HOME!!!!
          7. +1
            August 28 2023
            Quote from: topol717
            People like him have always been in the army, and always will be. But you don't need him to the front. he will fight there so much that then he will have to regroup for 3 months. It's better to retire them.

            Retirement is a well deserved rest. It’s better not to shine with a face for this - it’s not possible to resist temptation in every gateway ...
          8. 0
            August 29 2023
            This is, of course, yes, but for the fact that during his stay at the front, this general will without any doubt win a major and decisive victory in his personal war with beards, they will remember what it's like to walk in formation and yell marching songs like "Don't cry girl ... ", in general, will lead these front-line loafers to a statutory form, in short, show them how to get drunk on vodka and break riots))). Oh, the longer I live, the more I am convinced that the book by Yaroslav Hasek "The Adventures of the Good Soldier Schweik" is a book for all time and about any army in this world.
            1. +1
              August 29 2023
              I agree 100%. I tried to read the first year of service, did not understand, put it aside. But four years later I read excitedly and laughed. Conclusion to understand this book must serve.
              1. 0
                August 29 2023
                A similar situation. The first time I read this book at the age of fourteen, it seemed to me just a collection of old and not very funny anecdotes, in short, it didn’t fit in at all. But for that, only later, after the deadline, she entered even more. I still reread parts of it from time to time. In general, in my opinion, this book should become mandatory reading for all officers, because it helps to stay on the ground and not look like a complete idiot in the eyes of subordinates.))))
          9. -1
            August 29 2023
            Initially, he says everything correctly - both PMCs are an illegal formation, and it is not customary to wear beards with a shovel for various reasons (for me, there are exactly two reasons for a short haircut - hygiene and a gas mask)
            Only Sobolev himself did not distinguish himself. He has no military awards, even taking into account the command of the 58th army in 2003-2006, but in terms of behavior he is just a boot.
            Meanwhile, he is Chairman of the Movement for the Army, Defense Industry and Military Science (DPA) (since 2014). One would ask how he imagines the support of science and the defense industry.
            But that's just my impression, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he's smart, really
      2. +24
        August 28 2023
        Sputnik 70-PMC Wagner, like Prigozhin and Utkin, is already part of our history and part of this war. The main thing for us ourselves is not to become like this moneyer, who seems to enjoy the opportunity to show his rotten essence in public. Why didn’t he demand that the Gazprom PMC or the Novotek PMC be banned and liquidated? These offices were not even close to the front line, unlike the Wagnerites !!!
        1. Alf
          +2
          August 28 2023
          Quote: Thrifty
          Why didn’t he demand that Gazprom or Novotek be banned and liquidated?

          This is the leg of someone who needs a leg ...
        2. +2
          August 28 2023
          * Why didn’t he demand that Gazprom or Novotek be banned and liquidated? *
          so that the demand is not cut off ..
        3. +1
          August 29 2023
          Quote: Thrifty
          Why didn’t he demand that Gazprom or Novotek be banned and liquidated?

          Excuse me, can you read?
          This "PMC" Wagner "is an illegal armed group, such organizations should not exist in Russia. "What do you think about?
      3. -4
        August 28 2023
        True, he is not at the front either.

        And thank God that is far not only from the front, but also from the army. You can’t even trust such specimens with a broom ...
      4. +8
        August 28 2023
        Quote: Shurik70
        Sobolev's dream came true.
        Russia no longer has Wagner.
        And Prigogine is gone.
        And Sobolev is. True, he is not at the front either.

        This woodpecker doesn't even understand that hidden control of such PMCs is sometimes beneficial. Back in the noughties, I read a book by Tatyana Gracheva (whoever needs it knows who I'm talking about), she even then called for the creation of secretly controlled PMCs, to resolve issues where the army cannot be sent openly! Maybe someone will explain to him (this deputy from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation) that under these conditions, and even in the past, you cannot send an army to fight the French in the same CAR, Mali, Niger.
        1. +6
          August 28 2023
          Quote: azkolt
          Maybe someone will explain to him (this deputy from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation) that under these conditions, and even in the past, you cannot send an army to fight the French in the same CAR, Mali, Niger.

          Alas! It won't come! He's the GENERAL!
          Py.Sy. It's a shame for the Communist Party that such "members" represent the party.
          1. +1
            August 28 2023
            Yes, this one, apparently, from oak political workers since Soviet times. Because of people like him, there is no progress anywhere for you. Such people are not able to think creatively and are constantly trying to catch up with the West, but do not know how.
          2. +3
            August 28 2023
            Quote: Egoza
            Quote: azkolt
            Maybe someone will explain to him (this deputy from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation) that under these conditions, and even in the past, you cannot send an army to fight the French in the same CAR, Mali, Niger.

            Alas! It won't come! He's the GENERAL!
            Py.Sy. It's a shame for the Communist Party that such "members" represent the party.

            Found in the vastness of the cart
            And I think that our youth in the person of comrade. Sobolev has a magnificent opportunity to understand why the communists so successfully destroyed the USSR. Because along with the communist thieves, there were such absolutely ossified generals.

            We have a liberal character who considers himself a theater director, whose name the manifestos of the Boulevard Ring of Moscow are signed, Konstantin Bogomolov. So, I’m sure that all of Moscow will go crazy and will break down the doors of the theater if deputies from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation and, especially, General Sobolev in the role of Gloomy Burcheev, shine on the stage at the premiere of “The City of Foolov”.

            Preferably without makeup.

            Where is Buzova in the Boyakovsky Moscow Art Theater, this is nothing. And here is General Sobolev, shaking the dust from theatrical velvets with a loud organ...

            The applause of the audience, the enthusiastic squeal of women, the languid groans of homosexuals are guaranteed.
            1. -3
              August 28 2023
              You just misunderstand him. Most likely it's a matter of enjoying being at the top of the social pyramid. Here you can also press those who are lower very painfully, through the requirement to shave off their beards, and throw off others making their way to the top of the social Olympus. Everything fits very clearly here, and if it looks disgusting, it’s not a gold piece to please everyone. Everything is very clear here, ordinary tarpaulin boots, cadets yuft, officers ash and chrome. And those who are on the side should not be.
              Is this oil painting suitable?
          3. +7
            August 28 2023
            There have been no communists in the Communist Party of the Russian Federation for 30 years. These are fitters.
            1. +1
              August 29 2023
              I associate this party with the CoProphages, and not with communism.
        2. TIR
          -2
          August 28 2023
          Libya yet. And before the official entry into Syria, they were also there. I think they are the same in Iraq
        3. +1
          August 28 2023
          Quote: azkolt
          Can someone explain to him (this deputy from the Communist Party)

          The trouble is that they began to take freaks into the Communist Party of Russia. like this Sobolev and K0. Do they do it on purpose? Normal people don't go?
          1. -2
            August 28 2023
            Quote: 30 vis
            Do they do it on purpose? Normal people don't go?

            Most likely, the FSB sends similar types to the Communist Party of the Russian Federation to control Zyuganov and discredit the Communist Party. Just as the communists did not know how to purge opportunists from their ranks under Stalin and Gorbachev, they did not learn either under Yeltsin or under Putin.
        4. +2
          August 29 2023
          Quote: azkolt
          Maybe someone will explain to him (this deputy from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation) that under these conditions, and even in the past, you cannot send an army to fight the French in the same CAR, Mali, Niger.

          I hope you are aware that there was no trace of PMCs when the USSR fought unofficially in Korea and Vietnam.
          But he fought in the interests of the socialist state and not in the interests of the pockets of non-public individuals.
        5. 0
          August 29 2023
          In order to explain such an unpretentious idea to this instance, he still must have, firstly, a brain, and secondly, the ability to use it. Well, where do you observe these things in this instance, these two things? He is the GENERAL. laughing
        6. 0
          August 29 2023
          Quote: azkolt
          Maybe someone will explain to him (this deputy from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation) that under these conditions, and even in the past, you cannot send an army to fight the French in the same CAR, Mali, Niger.

          You can't send PMCs without an army behind your back either. Otherwise, it will be like in Syria, where the Americans rolled out the Wagners with aviation.
      5. -1
        August 28 2023
        Quote: Shurik70
        Sobolev's dream came true.
        Russia no longer has Wagner.
        And Prigogine is gone.
        And Sobolev is. True, he is not at the front either.

        Now it will not be possible for Russia to even have Africa, the same Niger has risen with the hope of Wagner's help, and the Wagners are already being disarmed and expelled from everywhere, let's see how it all ends, if Niger fails, then you can forget about Africa, trust is not rubber, and as I understand it, we don’t have extra troops to plug holes with them ..
        1. +1
          August 29 2023
          Quote: midivan
          Niger stood up with the hope of the help of "Wagner",

          Can you confirm?
      6. +12
        August 28 2023
        It is worth noting that Sobolev categorically opposes the very existence of Wagner PMC.

        By the way, the same opinions are expressed by foreign enemies of Russia. Coincidence?
      7. -1
        August 28 2023
        Don't take it to heart. This note, without attribution, is just an order, a pre-election discredit of the Communist Party. And who in general listens to the Communist Party in power? That's just funny.
      8. -6
        August 28 2023
        ... This is an illegal armed formation ... - said Sobolev.

        It is shameful for the generalik that there is still no sense from him from the living sense. That those who didn’t graduate from the blatant military universities for dad’s money made such a rustle - both on this and that side of the front, again! If you remember Chapaev, ignoring all the debility jokes from the Voice of America, you get a good parallel!
        At the same time, you can see what the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is today ... Please do not confuse it with the party of Comrade Platoshkin.
        So the general is furious - the truth hurts his eyes. Shoigu was just not there ... That's why we don't have enough directors of state farms - they all now go around Moscow as generals. There is no place for a real military at all.
        To lower these "guys", not dressed in uniform, to their reality, but closer! .. So that both the look and the smell would be - corresponding to their real status.
      9. The comment was deleted.
      10. 0
        August 29 2023
        Not for that the Russian Federation tore the shackles.
        So that the Sobolevs would be fruitful!
    2. +13
      August 28 2023
      In response, Prigozhin called Sobolev a "brainless talker" and invited him to go to the front, where he would show by his personal example how to fight. It is worth noting that earlier Sobolev advocated a complete ban on military personnel in the NVO zone from wearing beards.


      Comments are superfluous. According to Sobolev, high-quality fighters from PMC Wagner are not needed, but shaving beards is very important.
      1. 0
        August 28 2023
        The trouble for the country is such "duma members". By the way, how did Sobolev differ in the service of the Motherland? You need to look at his way to the top. Otherwise, the military are not bad, and the actors and athletes, astronauts, etc. stand, even fall .. Place, you know this ..
        1. +4
          August 28 2023
          Quote from: dmi.pris1
          We need to see his way to the top. And then after all, the military are not bad, and the actors and athletes, astronauts, etc. ...

          Nothing remarkable, except for the two academies, as they once said - "50 years in the ranks and not once in battle." He resigned and joined the Communist Party, managed to quarrel with anyone, including Kadyrov Prigozhin.
      2. 0
        August 28 2023
        He became a general not on the battlefield. War is not his. He would take care of the invasion of the Turkmens.
    3. +22
      August 28 2023
      Take off your shoulder straps, degeneral! The first mercenary who decided to spit in the history of this war, in the history of the country! Now, unfortunately, the trend will be such Duma rats with or without shoulder straps, but who consider that rewriting history is in tune with themselves social norm...
      1. +10
        August 28 2023
        What do you want. This is the current Communist Party.
        1. +3
          August 28 2023
          Was she ever different? A bunch of senile people mentally stuck in the Brezhnev era.
          1. +1
            August 28 2023
            Quote from invisible_man
            A bunch of senile people mentally stuck in the Brezhnev era

            Let's take a look at such a general in the soul of a soldier, but his shoes are not cleaned! wink
          2. -2
            August 28 2023
            you seem to be a representative of a bunch of hucksters and embezzlers. your era is also not eternal. someday they will come to you and take everything away. you will also have to answer for your crimes
            1. +3
              August 28 2023
              And I'm also an Ober-Mason and I drink the blood of pioneer heroes.
        2. -2
          August 28 2023
          Retired Kozy (KPRF) drummer! Drums anything and does not give a damn about reality! Shave beards - as bequeathed by Peter Alekseevich the First! And so we will win. What else is this general famous for? Afghanistan, Chechnya or service in hot countries?
        3. -3
          August 28 2023
          As if in the 90s the Communist Party was different ......
        4. +2
          August 28 2023
          Quote from Orange Bigg
          What do you want. This is the current Communist Party.

          Duc, it has been the current one since the collapse of the Union, which only Zyuganov’s words stand before the elections - the land to the peasants, and the factories to the workers at the very time when both the land and the factories are being taken away, moreover, in our bourgeois time, this party is anokhranism, it’s time for Zyuganov and the company to a dump of history, you can even award a goodbye - "For complicity in the dominance of migrants", an order!
    4. +8
      August 28 2023
      Again, this misunderstanding in the stripes crawled out with its delirium.
    5. AAK
      +13
      August 28 2023
      Judging by the tricks, concepts and membership in the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, this comrade is most likely not a personnel, but a political general, according to the experience of serving in the Soviet Army, it just stank of the political department ... We need a law on PMCs, but because of such oak blockheads people and left the troops for PMCs
      1. +6
        August 28 2023
        this comrade is most likely not a personnel, but a political general


        Do not guess.
        Not a political officer and not even a staff officer.
        Former commander of the 58th Army, participated in the 2nd Chechen War.
        1. -1
          August 28 2023
          Quote from: dump22
          Not a political officer and not even a staff officer.
          Former commander of the 58th Army, participated in the 2nd Chechen War.

          what? when did he command her? bzdun cardboard - as Prigozhin accurately designated it
        2. 0
          August 28 2023
          You do not confuse anything in his career regarding participation in the Second Chechen War? There, the fighting was limited to the year 2000, and the general was in office there from 2002 to 2006.
          1. +2
            August 28 2023
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            You do not confuse anything in his career regarding participation in the Second Chechen War? There, the fighting was limited to the year 2000, and the general was in office there from 2002 to 2006.

            since 2003 he was instead of Gerasimov, and in 2006 he galloped to the Indians, and since 2001 the FSB was in charge of the campaign in Chechnya and since 2003 the Ministry of Internal Affairs
      2. +1
        August 28 2023
        Quote: AAK
        Judging by the tricks, concepts and membership in the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, this comrade is most likely not a personnel, but a political general, according to the experience of serving in the Soviet Army, it just stank of the political department ... We need a law on PMCs, but because of such oak blockheads people and left the troops for PMCs

        Excellently written, although the eye "flying" along the lines snatched out the word "Dubolom" from Oorfene Deuce laughing
        PS Yes, he trampled a bit in 2002 in Chechnya with the rank of deputy commander after the 2 academies, that's all his war games. The rest of the service in peacetime and away from the fronts, warrior .... am
    6. +10
      August 28 2023
      Paid lampas got out.
      There should not be any armed people in the state who are not subordinate to the state

      When they took Bakhmut at the cost of their lives, this cognac lompas was silent. Yes, and in Prigogine’s face during his lifetime, he certainly would not have said such a thing.
    7. -17
      August 28 2023
      Sobolev said everything correctly.
      Discipline must be in a military unit, and a beard is insects, hence all sorts of diseases.
      I wonder where the anthrax in Russia came from?!
      It's the forelocks who vilify Sobolev.
      1. +2
        August 28 2023
        If insects appear (which is now a rarity), they will start up in a regular hairstyle.
      2. +9
        August 28 2023
        Sobolev said everything correctly.
        For people who do not climb out of the flooded trenches under constant shelling, it sounded like a mockery and an absolute lack of understanding of what is happening, such things are demotivating. It is strange to hear such a thing from a military man.
        1. +2
          August 29 2023
          Partisanism is only good in guerrilla warfare.
      3. +2
        August 28 2023
        Quote: 75Sergey
        Discipline must be in a military unit,

        Certainly of course.
        Quote: 75Sergey
        and the beard is insects, hence all sorts of diseases.

        There is only one insect, a louse. It tolerates only typhus and relapsing fever (outbreaks of these diseases have not been heard for a long time).
        Quote: 75Sergey
        I wonder where the anthrax in Russia came from?!

        And where did she disappear to? As far as the disease is known, so much it is present in our territory.
      4. 0
        August 28 2023
        Two weeks in a wet trench, what are you going to shave with? A waffle towel? Or like a pig lighter? Chatterbox is two-academic.
    8. +8
      August 28 2023
      Prigozhin called Sobolev a "brainless talker" and invited him to go to the front, where he would show by his personal example how to fight.

      A general from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is able to competently use soldiers only in the construction of his dacha.
      "Grandfather Zyu" and his "Octobers" are not capable of anything other than empty chatter. Compromisers and traitors!
    9. +3
      August 28 2023
      Not a dream, but a civil position. "Communists", though not what and not communists, but they express sound thoughts. Nothing, though not supporting them. They float along the current.
    10. +1
      August 28 2023
      Quote: 75Sergey
      Discipline must be in a military unit, and a beard is insects, hence all sorts of diseases.

      Exactly, and without drill training it is impossible to fight, and in general, why are the boots not polished?
      1. +1
        August 28 2023
        Today berets, on them the laces should be ironed.
      2. 0
        August 29 2023
        And it’s also very cool when the soldiers not only march in formation, but also yell a marching song, like “Don’t cry girl, it will rain ..” or “A soldier has a day off, all the buttons in a row ..” Extremely uplifting it turns out. laughing In general, in the Army everything should be either parallel or perpendicular, and if at an angle, then only 45% laughing
    11. +7
      August 28 2023
      "There should not be any armed people in the state who are not subordinate to the state. As a result, this led to a rebellion."
      Mutiny happens in the army itself, there are many examples of this in the world. We have, here, the so-called. the uprising of the Decembrists, a real army mutiny.
      1. 0
        August 28 2023
        A little wrong. Guards, and in feudal times they were not really an army.
    12. +2
      August 28 2023
      This miracle, which has generals' shoulder straps, apparently does not know who represents the interests of the country in the Central African Republic and other African countries. And who else helped the DNR and LNR in 14. And with whose help in the Crimea in 14 they were able to maintain order.
      1. +2
        August 28 2023
        And who else helped the DNR and LNR in 14. And with whose help in the Crimea in 14 they were able to maintain order.
        Crimea in 14 was liberated by "polite people" to whom the restaurateur Prigozhin has nothing to do. But who, fulfilling the "highest command" eliminated Dremov and Mozgovoy in the Donbass, still needs to be figured out. Not the Sumerians, for sure.
    13. +4
      August 28 2023
      Were the 58th army the "blacksmith" of media personalities of modern Russia? Look at the list of commanders of this army.
    14. +9
      August 28 2023
      Yes .. Quickly, the false communists forget the heroically taken lines by the Orchestra, a little more and all of them will be recorded as traitors to the Motherland ... Trouble ..
      1. -1
        August 28 2023
        Yeah, they heroically threw Bakhmut with the corpses of prisoners ... lol
        1. +3
          August 28 2023
          Penal battalion, dear .. And what did you want or think? -10, -15, -20 years in half a year .. Unprepared and not specialists. Who cares. You, apparently, only read books about "work")?
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. +5
            August 28 2023
            Unlike you "hero", I don't do masturbation. I am an assistant to the chairman of the Union of Veterans of Afghanistan and other local wars in the mountains. Krasnoyarsk since 2014. Honorary Chairman of the right-bank branch - Krivitsky V.A. Well, what did he do? It's written in my personal file. But it's not for you, that's for sure...
    15. +6
      August 28 2023
      This mug in uniform from the very beginning of the SVO is marked with 4m04 statements, demonstrating the traditional general blockhead and natural stupidity!
      1. +3
        August 28 2023
        This mug in uniform from the very beginning of the SVO is marked with 4m04 statements, demonstrating the traditional general blockhead and natural stupidity!
        Is there really anything to say besides swearing?
    16. 0
      August 28 2023

      ................................................
    17. The comment was deleted.
    18. +5
      August 28 2023
      The bloody farce has been going on for a long time.
      By law, mercenaries from PMCs are, as it were, criminals. Mercenary is legally prohibited.
      But meanwhile, Wagner has been quietly acting since the age of 14, and besides him, there are still a bunch of PMCs. Officially announced in the media

      And here is the choice - either the media and others lie - and they can, as it were, be imprisoned.
      Either the law does not work and it is purposefully and with impunity violated. And they even brag about it.
      It is necessary to plant others already, but everyone understands everything. The law is not for their own.

      So Sobolev in a broad sense is right, as it were.
      And his personal qualities ... Honest, or dishonest, he fit in with "His" or not - this is not in the article
      IMHO, if there were compromising evidence, they would have been covered with mud a long time ago ..

      By the way, Putin also said that PMC Wagner is no more.
      Or is there anyway?
      1. +4
        August 28 2023
        Quote: Max1995
        By law, mercenaries from PMCs are, as it were, criminals. Mercenary is legally prohibited.

        Who still finances the musicians? The answer to this was given by the head of Russia himself, Vladimir Putin.
        "PMC "Wagner" was entirely financed from the state budget" - Vladimir Putin
        “I want to note and I want everyone to know the content of the entire Wagner group was fully provided by the state. From the Ministry of Defense, from the state budget, we fully financed this group, ”Putin said.
        According to him, only from May 2022 to May 2023, the state paid 86 billion and 262 million rubles from the budget for monetary maintenance and incentive payments to PMCs. Of these, the monetary content is more than 70,3 billion, incentive payments - 15,8 billion rubles. Also, 110 billion 179 million rubles were spent on insurance payments, Putin said.
        The general, of course, overslept everything, the president has already said who is who and received the "rebels" in the Kremlin, who pays for the music, the orchestra plays to that. hi
    19. +4
      August 28 2023
      Why then is Sobolev silent about other PMCs? What does not achieve their disbandment?
      1. 0
        August 28 2023
        Why then is Sobolev silent about other PMCs?

        They ordered to work out the "face" on the "Wagner", so he barks. The conjuncture will change, who will be ordered to drown. For example Khodakovsky. Joke laughing he will not be ordered
      2. -1
        August 28 2023
        Why then is Sobolev silent about other PMCs? What does not achieve their disbandment?
        Announce the entire list, please!
        1. +3
          August 28 2023
          "Patriot", "Warrior", "Adler", "Rusich", "Anti-action systems", "Warm wind", "STG-Group" and a handful of others.
          1. +1
            August 29 2023
            "Patriot", "Warrior", "Adler", "Rusich", "Anti-action systems", "Warm wind", "STG-Group" and a handful of others.
            Wonderful. Are these private security companies of the relevant departments? If Wagner became famous for his African-Syrian-Artyom affairs, then where were they, and with what success?
            1. +1
              August 29 2023
              Quote: Aviator_
              If Wagner became famous for his African-Syrian-Artyom affairs, then where were they, and with what success?

              Information about their activities is not secret, all this is easily found on the Internet. And I ask you not to divert the conversation to the side. If the activities of Wagner are illegal because he is a PMC (for which Sobolev drowns), then the activities of all other PMCs are also illegal. The law, in fact, should be the same for all.
              1. 0
                August 29 2023
                And I ask you not to divert the conversation.
                You took the conversation aside. Wagner's activity is indeed illegal, but why the article on mercenaries has not yet been canceled - I don't know, with an obedient thought this is done instantly. If Wagner has success, then the others you mentioned do not seem to have success, otherwise there would be PR, like Wagner. By the way, he, Prigozhin, had his own PR group, blogger Rogers honestly admitted that he tried there for money.
                1. +1
                  August 29 2023
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  You took the conversation aside.

                  Sorry, but do not blame the sick head on a healthy one. I asked a very specific question.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Why then is Sobolev silent about other PMCs? What does not achieve their disbandment?

                  You start asking me what these PMCs do :))))
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  Wagner’s activities are indeed illegal, but why the article on mercenaries has not yet been canceled - I don’t know, with an obedient thought this is done instantly

                  You seem to be very ignorant of the law.
                  Sobolev argues that PMC Wagner is illegal, not because the company did something wrong, but because the very existence of PMCs is illegal. And here one can even agree with him, because there is no exhaustive definition of the status of PMCs in the Russian Federation. But if we take as a basis precisely the absence of a law regulating the activities of PMCs, then it turns out that any other PMC is illegal. Regardless of what and where she does.
                  Accordingly, I ask why only Wagner is illegal for Sobolev, and all other PMCs are legal.
                  Second option. We believe that PMCs are still legal, and that there is a legal basis for their existence in the Russian Federation. Then the questions for the rest of the PMCs disappear, but another question arises for Sobolev - why and on what basis did he declare Wagner an illegal armed group this spring, that is, even before the riot?
                  1. 0
                    August 30 2023
                    Sorry, but do not blame the sick head on a healthy one.
                    Of course not. It was you who started writing about similar PMCs, not me. I asked why nothing is known about their activities, you replied that I myself would start looking for traces of their activities. Further, about Sobolev.
                    Sobolev argues that PMC Wagner is illegal, not because the company did something wrong, but because the very existence of PMCs is illegal.
                    And it still is. And no one has yet given an explanation. Others, not so publicized PMCs (organized criminal groups, if strictly according to the law), were not mentioned, in my opinion, because they have nothing to boast of in their activities. And Prigozhin has something, especially since he had his own media holding.
                    Accordingly, I ask why only Wagner is illegal for Sobolev, and all other PMCs are legal.
                    Yes, he does not mention the rest at all. Why is a question for him.
                    We believe that PMCs are still legal, and that there is a legal basis for their existence in the Russian Federation.
                    In order to think so, one must see the law on PMCs, which for some reason is unknown even to dumaks. So Sobolev is absolutely right in his spring speech. There is still no answer.
      3. +1
        August 28 2023
        And at his dacha PMC "Gazprem" will turn off the gas. That's what he's afraid of.
      4. +1
        August 29 2023
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Why then is Sobolev silent about other PMCs? What does not achieve their disbandment?

        Shouldn't be in the state some armed menwhich are not subject to the state.

        Not being able to read is surprising. hi
    20. +4
      August 28 2023
      Strange and suspicious, why such angry comments. In fact, the problem was and is. Wagner, in any case, what is in the public domain is yes illegal armed formations according to the laws. Why did it happen this question. And the question is never idle. And here, IMHO, two possible answers. Either they actually spat on legality directly defiantly (which is very bad, in any case) or, according to documents that are classified, PMCs are not PMCs at all, but part of some law enforcement agency. The first option, I personally, to put it mildly, do not like it, the second is acceptable.
      1. +7
        August 28 2023
        open access is yes illegal armed formations according to the laws.

        Do you seriously think that Prigozhin and Utkin could create such a structure without the knowledge and assistance of those who write the laws?
        So the existence of a “not” law is most likely a whim and an idea of ​​“their Lordships”. This time.
        How did they conclude contracts with the PMC "Wagner" for the conduct of hostilities and paid money from the budget, if "from there is no legal field"? This is two.
        1. +4
          August 28 2023
          How did they conclude contracts with the PMC "Wagner" for the conduct of hostilities and paid money from the budget, if "from there is no legal field"? This is two.
          This is the whole paradox. There is an article about mercenarism, but for some reason it does not work here. And as for budgetary funds - when approving the budget, no spending on PMCs was provided. The representative of the Duma stated who approved the budget. Where did the money come from - this mystery is great.
          1. +2
            August 28 2023
            This is the whole paradox

            With a high degree of probability, this is not a paradox, but a deliberately and deliberately created "muddy water"
            1. +2
              August 28 2023
              The question remains why. There is an assumption that the structure was created for work "outside". Recruitment to work in Ukraine is a forced measure. When it was necessary to resolve the issue quickly.
        2. 0
          August 28 2023
          What is created under control is understandable. I don't like anything else.
    21. +7
      August 28 2023
      There are many questions for PMCs, but they did more for the front than these generals in the Duma .. Who are deeply "worried", but are not responsible for anything ...
    22. +7
      August 28 2023
      Forward, deputy general, and do not stop. Also abolish the Bank of Russia,
      such organizations should not exist in Russia..because it is not controlled by the state.
    23. fiv
      +5
      August 28 2023
      Old P, that you better deal with the 205th brigade. With their bloodsuckers, or does corporate ethics get in the way, to put it mildly?
    24. +4
      August 28 2023
      Without PMCs, mankind would not have had a history of geographic discoveries (Columbus, Cortes, Pizarro, Yermak) conquests.
    25. 0
      August 28 2023
      He himself is this legitimate Sobolev, climbed into the Duma with medals sparkling and raking in the loot.
    26. -2
      August 28 2023
      It is especially disgusting to hear this from the lips of a former military man. Prigozhin was right in relation to Sobolev, who, by the way, does not have a single decent military award.
    27. 0
      August 28 2023
      This deer in paws is either promoting itself so sadly on the topic of PMCs, or voicing / lobbying for someone's interests.
      1. 0
        August 28 2023
        For many, such a trick will be perceived as "we did not send you there."

        Being in the civil service must be confirmed every year with a certificate of cognitive compliance with the position held.
    28. +3
      August 28 2023
      There is no law directly prohibiting PMCs. And the fact that there is no law regulating PMCs does not in itself make them illegal.
      1. +3
        August 28 2023
        There is an article for mercenary. Or is this not enough?
    29. osp
      0
      August 28 2023
      All those failures that Russia is currently suffering at the front were laid down not only in recent years, but especially actively under Serdyukov and Ivanov.
      And this general was then in the service.
      And the Army then sagged both in numbers and in combat readiness.

      So he kept silent, it was better about Wagner.
      No matter how contradictory they are to him.
      They somehow fought without having academies, schools and training grounds of which there were plenty in the Moscow Region.
      1. +1
        August 28 2023
        I think if you look at the composition of PMCs, it turns out that almost all the former military. It's all about training and all that. Serdyukov, with all his jambs, to put it mildly, was put on for a reason. IMHO, at that time the army needed to be reformed. And only a person from the side could carry it out. Therefore, IMHO, he was almost not touched for sins. He completed his task. The post-Soviet army at that time, the country did not pull.
    30. 0
      August 28 2023
      In response, Prigozhin called Sobolev a "brainless talker" and invited him to go to the front, where he would show by his personal example how to fight. It is worth noting that earlier Sobolev advocated a complete ban on military personnel in the NVO zone from wearing beards.

      1. Prigozhin had nothing to answer on the merits, and he turned to personalities.
      2. In the NWO zone, it is possible for the enemy to use OV, while there will probably be no one to urgently shave his beard before putting on a gas mask.
    31. osp
      +1
      August 28 2023
      General Sobolev, he is not just a deputy of the State Duma from the Communist Party.
      He is also the leader of the DPA - the Movement in Support of the Army and Navy, if anyone does not know.
      But he is far from being Ilyukhin or Rokhlin in terms of popularity and support.

      They say that the Communist Party of the Russian Federation for the presidential election again ...
      ...will nominate Zyuganov again!
      Who is 80 years old and who always wanted to be forever second and not first.

      It is bad that not only this party, but the whole leftist idea in the country will finally go into oblivion.
      And there will be no other.
      If we knew the size of the party by years, we would be horrified.
      And 20-25 years ago they had not only their own governors and mayors, but also factory directors.
      Heads of villages and others. Moreover, quite often.
      But almost all of these people who came from the Soviet system with real convictions left the political scene due to their age.
      No replacement found. Yeah, we didn't really look for it.
      1. +2
        August 28 2023
        Old song . In fact, the communists "loved" the USSR. You can't take words out of a song. And who prevented the Communist Party to attract young people all these years? That is, in fact, fell in love a second time. All, in fact, in the dustbin of history. Z.Y. I am not an anti-Soviet, the ideas of socialism are close. But it's worth looking at things realistically.
        1. +2
          August 28 2023
          Didn't the communists take part in the lovemaking? In the 80s, ideological communists could be counted on the fingers. Membership in the CPSU career growth, no more. What are the beliefs? And for the next 30 years there were no opportunities to "work with the youth", they were immediately seized according to the system concocted in the West. It is always easier to play on base instincts. Young hucksters cherish and protect. Neither to war, nor to the machine. One continuous relaxation and consumption.
          1. +2
            August 28 2023
            I was waiting for such a comment .. If in the 80s there were almost no ideological ones left, then this is the school of communists. The idea is simple: if you lose, then it's your fault. If the communists could not pass on their ideas to generations, then it is they who are to blame ..
            1. +2
              August 28 2023
              Exactly. It was not possible for those few who understood where everything was heading to keep the situation. Having scored on the class struggle, they received the restoration of capitalism, and even in an ugly form, with a feudal bias.
            2. +2
              August 29 2023
              Quote: Skobaristan
              If in the 80s there were almost no ideological ones left, then this is the school of communists.

              The most interesting thing is that there were not so few ideological communists in the 80s. But they perfectly saw what the CPSU had become, and, after the collapse of the Union, they distanced themselves from the CPRF. I had this with my father - in the days of the USSR, he held a fairly high position in one of the Chelyabinsk associations (not along the party line, a production worker), he was noticeable, in general. And after the collapse of the USSR, functionaries taxied to him, called him to the Communist Party, predicted a certain career, and he sent them to three letters. Because he knew perfectly well those who rule at our regional level and understood that there would be no sense from them.
              As a result, many ideological ones recoiled from the Communist Party, but did not create their own party - in the 90s, in general, they were not up to it.
              1. 0
                August 30 2023
                In addition to ideology, we also need independence of judgment and sharpening for the struggle. Among the communists of the 80s there were ideological ones, but they were not fighters, unlike the communists of the beginning of the century. And they are not used to acting outside the system. Moreover, outside the Soviet system, they did not have a sufficient social base - this is the main, materialistic problem of the communist movement. Which their own ideology prevented them from realizing.
    32. -2
      August 28 2023
      Quote: carpenter
      Quote from: topol717
      People like him have always been in the army, and always will be.

      Are his statements foolishness or deliberate wrecking, for the split of society and social tension? In any case, such figures must be driven from everywhere, so as not to sow confusion!

      Why stupidity?
      He is the foundation of Russia's military affairs.
    33. -4
      August 28 2023
      What a mug, who knows? Where did you draw from?
    34. -6
      August 28 2023
      Prigozhin was deceived by the Ministry of Defense, like he was gathering people for the war, but in fact he was preparing a coup
      And indeed there should be one army, as during the Great Patriotic
      Wagner PMCs began to unleash a total of actually captured the headquarters.
      The conflict began when Wagner PMC stormed Artemovsk and engaged in lawlessness nearby, took away weapons, took their own prisoners. As a result, they were asked to leave, and they decided to go to Moscow, something stopped them.
      1. osp
        -2
        August 28 2023
        One army will not come out there in any way - for both the Russian Guard and the corps of the LDNR are fighting.
        And these are all completely different levels of training, different communication systems, different weapons and equipment, a bunch of other features.
        So it will not work out in one structure to combine.
    35. 0
      August 28 2023
      There will be no Wagner and no one will defend the interests of the country abroad. And if it were not for Wagner, then Artemovsk would have been stormed by the children and grandchildren of this general. Zhirinovsky, if I'm not mistaken, once smeared this general on TV
    36. 0
      August 28 2023
      Quote from Alexwar
      one army, as during the Great Patriotic War

      Whether the victim of the exam, or a member of the Communist Party.
      And the partisans, who during the Second World War were about 1 million people, who are they?
      On May 30, 1942, the Central Headquarters of the partisan movement was created (in 1942–44 the chief of staff was P. K. Ponomarenko). The central headquarters were operationally subordinate to the republican and regional headquarters of the partisan movement, which were headed by secretaries or members of the Central Committee of the Communist Parties of the republics, regional committees and regional committees. The creation of the headquarters of the partisan movement with clear functions and the improvement of communications with the "mainland" gave the partisan movement an increasingly organized character, ensured greater coordination of the actions of the partisan forces and contributed to the improvement their interaction with the troops.
      1. +1
        August 28 2023
        In partisan formations, from a certain time, everyone had military ranks and took the military oath. All of them, during the liberation of the territories in which they acted, poured into the Red Army.
        1. 0
          August 28 2023
          Quote: Essex62
          In partisan formations, from a certain time, everyone had military ranks and took the military oath.

          Many groups left for the organization of the underground and the partisan movement by the state by the German counterintelligence were very quickly neutralized. Often successful guerrilla warfare was organized by leaders who, looking at local conditions, acted according to circumstances and not according to state directives. For example, in the memoirs of the commander of the partisan brigade Margo V.I. "The Burning Forest" there is an episode when he refuses to completely subordinate his detachment to a special group dropped to control the partisan movement from the mainland, but instead allocated a small detachment to the leader of this group, the size of which allows the Moscow group to maintain mobility and protect the "Muscovites" from hunting attacks punitive detachments of Germans and policemen. The representative of Moscow, mindful of the death of many groups like him, accepted Margo's proposal and did not rudely insist on the directives given to him. At the same time, Margo used the skills of the "Muscovites" to fight German agents in his detachments and allowed them to organize counterintelligence and intelligence structures in the partisan detachments.
          1. 0
            August 29 2023
            "Independence" in the super-centralized Stalinist state was nipped in the bud. There were undoubtedly plenty of such attempts to steer not in a harness at the initial stage of the war. All of them ended in failure for the stubborn, as soon as the front stabilized and the Germans were driven away from Moscow. I wrote, from a certain moment. Some small groups may have been sitting longer, but they didn’t know about them and didn’t supply them. Basically, they are bands.
            PS:
            And in what rank did Margo end the war?
    37. ASM
      +1
      August 28 2023
      De jure at the moment he is right. On the other hand, the orchestra has fully earned its fame and reputation in society. The only good news is that the law on PMCs still began to be discussed. Well, we won’t get away from this anywhere - there are issues that the regular army cannot solve, but PMCs easily.
    38. +3
      August 28 2023
      The Communist Party of the Russian Federation, which recognized and thus legitimized the treason and coup of 1991, is an illegal formation.
      1. +1
        August 28 2023
        Dear flSergius! With the Communist Party of the Russian Federation - everything is quite complicated, ambiguous and problematic ... Before the CPSU (b), it, of course, is like the Moon on Luna-25, but there are many worthy people in it, though "beaten by petty-bourgeois moths" and poisoned by Yeltsin - Chubais' "Narzan" with the subsequent addition of a twenty-year "period" of de-ideologized "being" in capitalist Russia, to which they are trying to give a Gagarin smile ... I will try to express cautious optimism: it is possible that members of the CPSU (b), time ... But it will be a different story, a different game in spirit, content ... "It's a pity - to live in this beautiful time. I won't have to - neither me nor you ...." - N.A. Nekrasov 1864
    39. osp
      +2
      August 28 2023
      These deputies, receiving a million a month or even more (500 thousand salary + bonus and other payments), have probably lost touch with reality for a long time.
      And they don’t even want to invite Shoigu to their place for a private conversation.
      As they say, the way he brought the troops to such a state that a year and a half of hardest fighting and no progress.
      But no, they are afraid of losing warm places.
    40. +2
      August 28 2023
      The so-called General Sobolev is a rotten fence molecule in a swamp. Who is he? Where did he fight? Nowhere. Paper Zyabryahudra. He is against Prigogine, like a worm against the Tiger. Beguiled the coast!
    41. +2
      August 28 2023
      It seems that General Sobolev did not understand (or maybe they forgot to inform him) the reasons for the creation, the field of activity and the organization of the PMC "Wagner" ... And hence such "roaring" statements in the public space ... He asked about the "combat by a "non-combat general and the current" servant of the working people "... Everything is very, very modest (in terms of service in the troops), but, according to the capital, elite ... And about PMCs and beards (conflict with R. Kadyrov), so this is all not out of "malice", but from the lack of knowledge and experience of serving in a difficult combat situation or in "hot spots" .... Sunny Georgia and hot India could not add to the general a "Suvorov" understanding of a soldier, they did not add army intelligence and understanding complexities and problems of "existence" of modern warfare and the role and place in these wars of PMCs ... War can be understood only in war, on the front line, in a damp trench with a can of stew, a sip of water and the last "horn" to AKM ... And such "retinue" generals, from infantry, during the peaceful years, the Russian land spawned - "above the roof" ... One thing pleases that Mr. Sobolev is in the Duma, and not as part of the army in the field .... And there, and from their stands and they didn’t broadcast like that, and nothing, they survived. Let's get through this...
    42. -3
      August 28 2023
      General Sobolev spoke out

      Where do such pedatutes come from? request
    43. -1
      August 28 2023
      fossil senile .. warmed himself in the Duma feeder
    44. 0
      August 28 2023
      And this is not the parquet general who was indignant that l / s in the trenches on the front line without collars and not in stuffed boots?
    45. +1
      August 28 2023
      I wouldn’t be surprised if this general was United Russia, although what times the communists are like.
    46. +1
      August 28 2023
      Old moronic. This cattle to the front would be ordinary. Any employee of Wagner for the Motherland did more in one day than this yap in a lifetime.
    47. 0
      August 28 2023
      Sobolev is a bastard! .........................
    48. -2
      August 28 2023
      «Illegal armed formation»: State Duma Deputy General Sobolev spoke about the future of Wagner PMC

      He confused the PMC with the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    49. 0
      August 28 2023
      The Wagner Group will cease to exist. The fighters will be able to go into civilian life or sign a contract with the Moscow Region. This is an illegal armed formation. There should not be any armed people in the state who are not subordinate to the state. As a result, this led to a rebellion. We were on the brink of civil war

      Sobolev said.
      It would be desirable to completely transfer the dung heap under the name of the State Duma of the Russian Federation to the front in the NWO for natural professional selection
    50. +1
      August 28 2023
      In the current situation, there is no right. Both sides are to blame, and both sides have made unacceptable mistakes.
      When the SVO began and mercenaries suddenly began to be advertised from all the cracks, the people asked a reasonable question, how is this possible in a country where mercenarism is prohibited and punishable by the criminal code? Of course, you can bang into the ears of the layman, about patriotism and a contract with the Motherland. Only in such organizations they go purely for earnings, and not to give someone an oath, and be under the command of the state apparatus.
      A lot of crap was hammered into the development of laws, until it all turned into something incomprehensible, which is not clear how to perceive. The problems remain unresolved to this day. And all the events that happened, in fact, happened through the fault of the state, and not a private office, which they themselves gave a field for action.
      PMCs may exist, but their tasks and competence do not include becoming a parallel army.
      In part, it may be good that Russia has gone through the Wagner experience. Otherwise, it would not be completely clear how to act, what to build on, and what to regulate.
      I see no reason to abandon PMCs. In the modern world, such organizations are needed, but it is necessary to carefully and thoroughly work out the law to regulate their activities.
      1. +4
        August 29 2023
        Quote: Mint Gingerbread
        Both sides are to blame, and both sides have made unacceptable mistakes.

        The party that created the unbearable conditions, in which the other party made an unacceptable mistake, is 99% to blame.
        The mistake of the second side was only that they had to go to the MSC without weapons, on the air (stream) accompanied by the press.
        In every city, settlement along the road, it was necessary to hold rallies in support of the NWO.
        1. Egg
          +1
          August 29 2023
          Quote: Rumata
          The mistake of the second side was only that they had to go to the MSC without weapons, on the air (stream) accompanied by the press.

          Well, that's how it was, almost.
          Without weapons, they would not even have reached Rostov, they would have rolled along the road, along with the press and other civilians who were not lucky enough to travel along this road. Which, in general, was demonstrated .. there is a lot of video of the bombings and the consequences with broken trucks and cars on the Internet.
          In those days, I immediately had a question, why didn’t they block the roads, why didn’t they cut off the civilians? No, they just bombed everyone in a row, hiding behind statements that these were all Wagner columns ... if the Wagner air defense had not begun to shoot down all those flying up, the bacchanalia would have continued.
    51. +3
      August 28 2023
      Není dobrý nápad rušit Wagnera a Prigožin dokázal proč? No spíše by mělo Rusko přemýšlet vyznamenat bojovníky Wagnera, byli skvělí celou tu dobu.
      1. +5
        August 28 2023
        Shouldn't Wagner be worried, and Prigogine proved why? Well, rather, Russia should think about honoring the Wagner fighters, they have been great all this time.
    52. 0
      August 28 2023
      I completely agree with the deputy about beards. This is how bearded servicemen will put a gas mask on their shaggy faces if Bandera’s followers want to poison them with some kind of chemical? Here. That's it.
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    54. The comment was deleted.
    55. 0
      August 29 2023
      In order to disband something, you need to understand who it belongs to. Here was Prigozhin, it was clear that this was a division of the Administration and personally of the GDP. But without it, nothing is clear.
    56. 0
      August 29 2023
      Soboleva - send the parquet to polish, you can in the Duma, this fool cannot be allowed to do other work!
      1. 0
        August 30 2023
        Yes, half of the State Duma can be sent to the streets of Moscow for revenge instead of people without a nationality or the tiles can be moved.
    57. 0
      August 29 2023
      Why publish an article about these empty objects on a decent website?! So that readers will swear? Have you let off some steam? Don't do nonsense.
      1. 0
        August 29 2023
        Quote: Misha Misha
        Why publish an article about these empty objects on a decent website?! So that readers will swear? Have you let off some steam? Don't do nonsense.

        The country must know its "heroes". So that this deviant is not elected in the next State Duma elections.
    58. The comment was deleted.
    59. 0
      August 29 2023
      Soboleva to the front line! Wagging your tongue is not moving bags.
      1. -1
        August 29 2023
        Just not higher than a flyer (private soldiers are absolutely not allowed, general), otherwise he’ll fight.
    60. -1
      August 29 2023
      Wow such a general.. We need to take the best from Wagner and introduce it into the Russian Army, and the chain is shorter between platoon commanders and division commanders...
    61. 0
      August 29 2023
      Quote: Alekseev
      .....
      Although PMCs are indeed formally illegal, there is still no law....

      Formally, really illegal. And when and who in our Fatherland did this bother? In Russia, for 13 years there was an illegal armed DEPARTMENT - FSKN (Drug Control). The Federal Drug Control Service was in the Criminal Code and the Code of Criminal Procedure, the Administrative Code was also there, but there was no Law on the Federal Drug Control Service. Only the Decree on creation. And nothing bad happened.
    62. The comment was deleted.
    63. 0
      August 29 2023
      Before they had time to bury the remains, commentators immediately began to climb in. Where they were before this, about 9 years ago, is unclear. When Wagner opened the door upstairs with his foot, the Duma stupidly did not notice that the very adoption of PMCs was contrary to the Constitution. And that several more of them have been created over the past few months.
    64. 0
      August 30 2023
      This Sobolev is an illegal formation; one should have been shot with a slingshot as a child.
    65. 0
      August 30 2023
      The fact of the matter is that the Wagner PMC became an illegal armed formation, which, right up until they were asked to become part of Mo, did not want to have control from the center. What does it have to do with the formation of probably about 50 thousand, who rebelled because the witnesses did not give them much weapons and went to Moscow, it’s good that they didn’t kill everyone at the headquarters on the way to Moscow, but they probably would have run out of weapons.
      Signals were already coming from the Northern Military District that they were lawless there when they captured the unit commander. This is complete insanity, they beat him.
      That’s how I decided with the PMC and the whole Arava with weapons will move somewhere later.
      There is a video of one commander who honestly told everything about them.
      When their units stand right there and they take their own prisoners, the question is who were they playing for?
      And at the airports, here they are sitting with hats on their heads, chefrons glued upside down with all sorts of signs like pirates
      They took one artemosk and that was it.
      They stormed and threw themselves into battle, Wagner cemeteries are everywhere, they are more than the number of killed in the entire army. In Wagner, whoever is stronger is right, and not the one who has a rank and has been engaged in his work with personnel all his life.
      They went to Belarus and there is the death penalty for murder. In Russia they will give you 10 years, but in Belarus they will shoot you according to the laws of their state
      All these formations must be disbanded or sent to their own.
      Who will feed and water them now? Prigozhin died, the accounts will be blocked and it will take time to transfer to someone else, otherwise maybe the guys won’t receive the money, again they will have to pay. Will they sit for free?
    66. 0
      August 30 2023
      With such a PMC Wagner, things will come to a civil war, as in Ukraine, the seizure of government bodies, as well as with the headquarters, cordons will be set up everywhere.
      And like Wagner, the United States would quickly help with any type of weapon, including tanks, as is happening in Ukraine. America Taliban supported all kinds of terrorists
    67. 0
      August 30 2023
      And how many military men does respected Ramzan Akhmatovich have, controlled only by him?
    68. 0
      August 30 2023
      Personally, I am in favor of Russia having a variety of formations, given the positive military experience of which, it would be possible to improve regular troops. Anyone can ban, but finding advantages and using them is given not only to everyone.
    69. 0
      August 30 2023
      PMC "Wagner" is an illegal armed group, in Russia there should not be such organizations. The State Duma deputy from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, General Viktor Sobolev spoke about the future of the "Orchestra".
      - Why was he silent before, sick general?! I decided to kick the dead lion...
    70. The comment was deleted.
    71. 0
      1 September 2023
      Right. Disband everyone, reorganize, transfer, send, reassign... And so be it, the brave General Sobolev himself will personally go.

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