Telegram channels: Hero of Russia Anton Elizarov can become the new head of Wagner PMC

According to a number of sources cited by several Telegram channels at once, the Wagner PMC can either be led, or has actually been led by one of the most famous commanders of the "orchestra" - Hero of Russia, Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics Anton Elizarov. He is known by the callsign "Lotus".

Just under the command of Elizarov, Soledar was liberated. Sources say that it was Elizarov who was responsible for combat work and training of fighters. There is nothing surprising in the fact that he can lead or has already led a PMC - he is one of the most experienced and heroic Russian commanders.

It is known that Anton Elizarov was born in 1981 in the Rostov region, graduated from the Suvorov Military School in Ulyanovsk and the Ryazan Higher Airborne Command School named after General of the Army V.F. Margelov. Since 2003, Elizarov served in the Airborne Forces, was forced to leave the ranks of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in 2014.

After leaving the army, Elizarov joined the Wagner PMC, took part in the fighting in Syria, was a military instructor in the Central African Republic, and then commanded a detachment in Libya.

Since 2022, he participated in a special military operation, personally commanded the forces of the Wagner PMC, which stormed and liberated the city of Soledar. In 2022, President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin, by a closed decree, reportedly conferred on him a high state award - the title of Hero of the Russian Federation. He is also a Hero of the DNR and LNR.

Comments

[dmi.pris1]

"Wagner" will certainly not end with the death of key figures. I think everything will be fine with financing. Good luck to "Lotus"

[Thrifty]

There, he immediately needs an understudy, otherwise the Kremlin will suddenly decide that he takes on too much!

[bayard]

Quote: Thrifty

There, he immediately needs an understudy, otherwise the Kremlin will suddenly decide that he takes on too much!

PMC Wagner is an order structure, and they had protocols in case the entire leadership died, but not everything died, although indeed the most iconic and key figures. Lotus is an authoritative and well-known commander, if he leads, everything with Wagner's command will be fine.

[flicker]

[quote] PMC Wagner is an order structure, and they had protocols in case the entire leadership died, but not everything died, although indeed the most iconic and key figures / quote]
Well, yes, it is possible that they had protocols in case someone screwed up their commanders.
Prigozhin and Utkin messed up: split Wagner (3/4 of the staff did not support the rebellion), endangered the country, deprived of funding (read: future).
Previously, a screwed up officer (if he had merit) was given the opportunity to die with dignity.
Utkin seems to have done just that.
As for Prigozhin, it is possible that he also decided so, or perhaps Utkin decided so for him.
---
If so, then an act worthy for an OFFICER and WARRIOR.
---
And Wagner in his new birth will again serve for the good of Russia.
By the way, Prigozhin said that something would happen at the end of August and Wagner would serve for the benefit of Russia.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: flicker

Utkin seems to have done just that.

Yes, do not invent a beautiful fairy tale for the departed. Watch the video of the Wagners from Belarus. Utkin was in a very good mood and said, Everything is just beginning. And Prigogine also looked very pleased.

[flicker]

. Utkin was in a very good mood and said, Everything is just beginning. And Prigogine also looked very pleased.

This is how Prigogine and Utkin treated death

. Two months before the plane crash, the businessman also talked about what awaits him after death.

“We will all go to hell, but in hell we will be the best,” he said.

Behind the scenes of this video, the voice of the commander of the PMC "Wagner" Dmitry Utkin, who was also on the list of those who died as a result of the plane crash, is also heard.

«Death is not the end. This is just the start of something else", - he continued the words of Prigozhin

[Unaltered]

Relax, Wagner is finished. Not subject to discussion.

[Qas]

Who are you to be so categorical?

[Sergey Egorov_3]

then it’s clear that only yesterday 1.5 thousand Wagners arrived in Africa, to the 2 thousand available there

[TIR]

It is necessary to recruit from the EU to Wagner. Then carry out attacks with the help of kamikaze UAVs at the points of transshipment of weapons to Ukraine. Europe must feel in its own skin what war is. To understand that not only in Russia and Ukraine should explode and burn

[Sergei N 58912062]

Quote: Unchanging

Relax, Wagner is finished. Not subject to discussion.

Vasya, who are you to make such statements?!

[flicker]

Wagner is finished

Rather, long live Wagner.
Who knows, maybe Utkin at the cost of his life (and the life of Prigozhin) ensured the rebranding of Wagner.

[aiden]

Specially registered to write my vyser. You'll probably be finished ;)

[savage3000]

You are going. Deep and long.

Ps. Ppppp

[bayard]

Quote: Stoporez fan

What can you say about Prigogine's feeder?

Are you talking about ways of off-budget financing of a trusted PMC?
It was, and I'm sure it will be all right.
The conflict with the leadership of the Moscow Region ... was understandable - Shoiga undertook to play his favorite games with Vagen with a lack of funding and a desire to resubordinate to himself personally. And he played. Wagner only reacted, and at the peak of the conflict, very emotionally.
Have you heard anything from the Moscow Region about the delay in payments, especially to those who died?
And about an attempt to rob Wagner with money prepared for payments? That cash truck, remember?
Money and power corrupt.
They corrupt terribly.
But stability, especially during a military conflict, is above all. Although the head of the USC has already been changed ... But it seemed that he felt so confident.

[Stopper Fan]

It's funny to read you, you have information from newspapers. Can you prove? You believe a man who defends his homeland for money. I’m sure they didn’t share it, but why is Prigogine better? Why should Shoigu play something, is he paying money out of his own pocket? His people killed people who defended the state system, is this normal?

[alystan]

It's funny to read you, you have information from newspapers. Can you prove? You believe a man who defends his homeland for money.

You are no less funnier to read, if anything.
The Russian army is contractual and the personnel are paid a lot, in the form of salaries, for the defense of the motherland!
You are confidently accusing Prigozhin of paying his fighters for this defense of the Motherland. It is with a capital letter, and not like yours ...

His people killed people who defended the state system, is this normal?

Who killed who first? Who gave the order to attack the Wagner base? If you are bombed, will you sit out?

It looks like you deliberately share the defense of the Motherland and the state system?

[Mamin-Sibiryak]

Comrades, remember - we will never know the whole truth and not everything is so simple.

[1 z1]

Comrades, remember - we will never know the whole truth and not everything is so simple.

An ingenious solution for all occasions. Why think, reason and doubt .... We are all stupid and do not see or know anything. And smart uncles will never tell us anything

[ramzay21]

Comrades, remember - we will never know the whole truth and not everything is so simple

Only narrow-minded and stupid leaders of the country, whose results of government are deplorable, always let in fog and mystery. They simply have nothing else to answer fair questions. And the saddest thing is that there are people justifying the leadership that led to such results.

[AntidipresaHt]

Attack the Wagner base? Do you seriously still believe in this staged video on your knee?

[Stopper Fan]

Maybe I’m not arguing correctly, but it seems to me that it is the state system, because if Russia is destroyed, then we may have a different kind, everyone has their own. I remember the 90s, there was not much left before such a scenario.

[Essex62]

The change of system, capitalism, is not the collapse of Russia. Why do you deny competence to those who come to replace you?
This could not have happened in the 90s. It was possible to seize people's property only within the framework of a single territory, the former RSFSR, centrally.

[bayard]

Quote: Stoporez fan

It's funny to read you, you have information from newspapers.

No , not from newspapers . But if you do not believe the newspapers, but believe Shoigu ... what should you be called?

Quote: Stoporez fan

Can you prove it?

To prove is a matter for the court, but in the Russian Federation the authorities are not subject to jurisdiction. But I know what and what Shoyga played for, he has been playing this for many years.

Quote: Stoporez fan

You believe a man who defends his homeland for money.

Now everyone is defending their homeland for money. There was a time and a place where and when people defended their homeland, the honor and memory of their ancestors, the land and their native language, not for money. And they gave their lives for it. And now everyone is paid for it, and they fight not by conscription, but by contract.

Quote: Stoporez fan

I'm sure they didn't share

Money . Shoiga did not want to pay what was due to Wagner, especially payments to the dead and wounded, he delayed payments. He demanded to conclude a contract with himself, and having received a refusal, he decided to get rid of the management and appropriate all the money. But still had to pay.
Or do you not believe in the attack on the Wagner camps?
There, everything was sorted out with this, they settled with everyone and bred them in different sandboxes. The successes of Russia in Africa and its authority there are entirely the merit of Wagner and his fighters.

Quote: Stoporez fan

His people killed people who defended the state system

Nobody encroached on the system, and the columns marching on Moscow carried some evidence of the strike of certain characters on the camps of Russian soldiers, and therefore the "March of Justice". And these proofs reached their goal. That's why they destroyed it. And they answered the Wagner helicopters when they began to strike on the highway, they destroyed a bus with civilians. That's when they shot down the first one. And then they hit all the attackers.
And yet - they have not had a connection with the Kremlin for a long time. And this is a very bad sign, with such inveterate arbitrariness of the Knights of a foreign order.
The knights were the first to shed the blood of Russian soldiers, and it was they who sent helicopters and planes to bomb highways, an oil depot, blew up bridges and dug up highways. Bomb a busy freeway!!

Quote: Stoporez fan

this is normal?

It is not normal .
But everything was decided with this - the money was returned and paid off in full (note that Wagner did not raise this particular topic so as not to disgrace the president, who was sure that they were paid off in full), they were officially forgiven, the real culprits (according to tradition) were not punished, but scattered them to the sides. Wagner returned to Africa and even during this short time, succeeded very much in this direction.
For this, they took revenge on the leadership of Wagner, and it was those to whom they were there - in Africa, who crossed the road. And it was not the first assassination attempt, and they began long before the summer excess.

Quote: Stoporez fan

Funny to read you

So don't read. I met Dmitry (Utkin) at the beginning of 2015, and the fate of these guys is not indifferent to me.

[Mamin-Sibiryak]

By the way, where is the detailed press coverage of the list of victims from the "bus with civilians"? After all, we have a democratic state in its true, primordially Russian understanding

[Essex62]

It turns out Prigogine and the rest of the paddling pools...? Who else in Africa can get a ride? Well, of course, the reason is not in the towers and the march was "peaceful", to show the video to the wrestlers how Shoigu beats them. And they were not called criminals, on the air.

[bayard]

Quote: Essex62

It turns out Prigogine and the rest of the paddling pools...?

I would bet on MI6. The French did not have such a thing against us and they have fewer resources.

Quote: Essex62

the march was "peaceful", the video of the wrestlers to show how Shoigu beats them.

It was not a video, but material evidence. With markings and serial numbers.

Quote: Essex62

And they were not called criminals, on the air.

Then a lot of people said different things. But Putin met with them, and they brought what they needed. Perhaps they had a version that Putin was generally held hostage by Shoigi, because they could not get through to him lately. In any case, both conflicting parties were parted in different directions, and each of them was occupied with useful and important work.

Quote: Essex62

And criminals

Almost all commanders there are Heroes of Russia. And remember how people met them in Rostov.
And listen better to the words about Prigozhin and other dead presidents of the country after their possible death.

[Essex62]

Today it is so customary for fasteners to blame everything to the west. The ancients taught - look for someone who benefits. The first on the list are those who began to scatter when approaching Moscow, the most combat-ready army in the country. It was not they who gave orders to attack the column from the air, to blow up bridges? And the words of the president mean nothing, he has said a lot of things for more than 20 years. At that moment, the wrestlers really believed that they were going to overthrow them. Prigozhin gave back, because he realized that they would roll it into a pancake by strategists, along with civilian cars. After the execution of the Supreme Council in 93 in the center of Moscow, it became clear that the huckster power had no brakes. And in the struggle for this, they will endure anyone, by any means. Birch and Hodor will not let you lie.

[bayard]

Quote: Essex62

The ancients taught - look for someone who benefits.

So why are you not guided by this wisdom yourself?

Quote: Essex62

It's customary for fasteners today

Well, in terms, then you gave yourself away Sasha with ears, so it flew by.

Quote: Essex62

It was not they who gave orders to attack the column from the air, to blow up bridges?

These were two Knights not of our order. And they have already cast iron Judas medals for themselves.

Quote: Essex62

And the words of the president mean nothing, he has said a lot of things for more than 20 years.

He really talked a lot, only he met with the entire Council of Wagner Commanders immediately after the kurtosis ... they talked ... the stolen money was returned to them, all the arrears were paid. Why so? Because of fear" ? Or because the truth was not behind the Knights? And they, the Knights, are to blame for the death of our pilots.

Quote: Essex62

. At that moment, the wrestlers really considered

And who are the "fighters"?
If those who fled, then they are by no means "fighters".
Or are you talking about the power of the Russian Federation?
So there, too, not everyone had a panic.
The Knights had a panic, because they screwed up.

Quote: Essex62

Prigozhin gave back, because he realized that they would roll it into a pancake by strategists, along with civilian cars.

No . Because just then we agreed to meet with Putin.
And met.
And everything was settled.

Quote: Essex62

After the execution of the Supreme Council in 93 in the center of Moscow, it became clear that the huckster power had no brakes.

Is yours somehow different? How is Trump?

Quote: Essex62

Birch and Hodor will not let you lie.

Are you familiar with them?

[1 z1]

Do you trust a man who defends his homeland for money

And in the Ministry of Defense, they probably serve the country for a bowl of soup?

His people killed people who defended the state system, is this normal?

Yes, the pilots died following orders.
But what does the "state system" have to do with it?

[Sergei N 58912062]

Quote: Fan of Stoporez

It's funny to read you, you have information from newspapers. Can you prove? You believe a man who defends his homeland for money. I’m sure they didn’t share it, but why is Prigogine better? Why should Shoigu play something, is he paying money out of his own pocket? His people killed people who defended the state system, is this normal?

You, a creature not disfigured by intellect, what kind of nonsense are you talking about?!

[Stopper Fan]

Most have only emotions, and when you ask what they are based on, insults begin.
I will only say one thing, I used to worry about such people, I was afraid that such people would bring a lot of harm, but I realized that they were not capable of anything other than writing nasty things.

[brondulyak]

However, how tiresome it is to read texts with spelling and grammatical errors, as if people did not study well in high school ...

[Normal]

It would have been easier to eliminate Prigozhin in Africa, especially since he only returned from there. Why eliminate him when he flew from Moscow to St. Petersburg? Where is the logic? And with regards to Lotus, there are many worthy candidates: both Sedoy and Ratibor, Tramp, Pioneer.

[1 z1]

Prigozhin would be easier to eliminate in Africa,

It depends on who ordered and eliminated. Apparently it was easier to organize in the center of the Russian Federation

[Stopper Fan]

As I understand it, the color of the nation is sitting here, who knows how to properly manage the country, but you are not enough for more than sitting on the Internet.

[Alexander Petrovich]

If it was eliminated by foreign special services, then it turns out that such good special services in Russia did they miss this? Is it easier for you to think like that?

[nemez]

Whose aircraft is it made? Do you think it was difficult to extinguish everything in it remotely? In the video, by the way, the fall looks like the engines suddenly failed on the plane.

[Essex62]

In the video, the plane falls with destruction. Without a wing and something with CW.

[Mikhail Ivanov]

As far as I know, Lotus refused to participate in the march of justice on Moscow, which actually removed him from the Wagner command board! So he's a slippery figure...
And the entire combat unit was headed by "Ninth", aka Wagner and aka Dmitry Utkin.

[svp67]

Well, judging by the list of merits, he is able to become a replacement for Utkin, but for Prigogine??????? There are big doubts, especially after the story with the apartment ... In place of Prigozhin, we need an "inveterate businessman", one who is ready for both fire and water ... for the sake of "fulfilling a contract with the Motherland ..." and with great charisma

[ism_ek]

Quote: svp67

and with great charisma

Lukashenka will most likely decide political issues.

[Alekseev]

There will be a demand for military work, one where the regular army cannot be sent, there will be organization and leaders.
But... It is necessary to give legal status first. After all, PMCs as an organization do not exist. In fact, there is, but as a legal entity there is no
And the main role in it was played not by personalities, really, outstanding people, but by the fact that, as one African president said, in my opinion, the CAR, the Russian government was behind the PMCs. It is this circumstance that is the cornerstone. True, government control was lost, which led to well-known events. And, very likely, to the death of the leadership, which has somewhat "lost its shores."
Who in the government was specifically responsible for the control of Wagner and failed to control everything? The great secret is...
But the company is in demand and will work.

[svp67]

Quote: Alekseev

And the main role in it was played not by personalities, really, outstanding people, but by the fact that, as one African president said, in my opinion, the CAR, the Russian government was behind the PMCs.

Here I do not agree. Here the example of Girkin, who began "for health, and ended for the repose ..." is the most illustrative. Nevertheless, the personality of a person in history means a lot.

[Normal]

You saw Girkin's face, with his pink swollen and always wet lips. How can it be compared with frank machines for the implementation of responsible and delicate assignments. For the sake of interest, look at the expression on the face of the same Bogatov (Tramp) and then on Girkin. One is a warrior, the other is a sugary lover of power, always disguised as a White Guard officer. One hundred percent epileptoid by constitution and mentality, the other is a narcissist, utterly in love with himself.

[Alekseev]

Personality means, that's for sure!
But no individual can organize military operations without the full support of the state.
It is impossible to arm, transport in an organized manner, pay regularly, or hire a soldier without the permission of the authorities of his country.
Buy MANPADS, for example. Well, one, two Ukrainians can now. And a thousand? Or take on the service in the company of desperate guys, but from remote places ... Etc., etc.

[Bully]

There will be a demand for military work, one where you cannot send a regular army, there will be an organization and leaders

I'm embarrassed to ask, how did the USSR solve such issues without any private companies? I note that the geography of the "secret" military presence then was an order of magnitude wider than it is now

[Alekseev]

The USSR sent advisers, and took Cubans to fight on the ground (Angola, Ethiopia). It worked out well too.
So, you are right, options are possible depending on specific conditions.

[Qas]

Remember (if you saw it, of course, but everyone saw and knows it) Prigozhin's speeches in the zones (places of deprivation of liberty), where he recruited his future fighters. He guaranteed them an amnesty at the end of the contract! And they were pardoned! And who in the Russian Federation can grant amnesty according to the law? President of the Russian Federation. That's whose man Prigogine was from the beginning. And Prigozhin never expressed his demands (or claims) to him. To Shoigu, to Gerasimov, yes! To Putin, no!

[brave]

Quote: Qas

Remember (if you saw it, of course, but everyone saw and knows it) Prigozhin's speeches in the zones (places of deprivation of liberty), where he recruited his future fighters. He guaranteed them an amnesty at the end of the contract! And they were pardoned! And who in the Russian Federation can grant amnesty according to the law? President of the Russian Federation. That's whose man Prigogine was from the beginning. And Prigozhin never expressed his demands (or claims) to him. To Shoigu, to Gerasimov, yes! To Putin, no!

That's right, the state gave this right and also gave the right to strict discipline, turning a blind eye to strict orders with them up to executions. And the whole state paid for compensation, including. Thanks to this, Artemovsk was taken and the lion's share of those who died in it were precisely the prisoners. Prigozhin pulled the blanket over himself, spitting into the feeding hand, and broke the firewood with his march.
But every time I mention it, I get downvoted.

[ism_ek]

Everything rested on the personal acquaintance of Prigogine and Putin. With all due respect to Utkin, there are many of them, it’s another matter that the RF Armed Forces don’t let them go, Prigozhin did.
The group can remain independent of the MOD only if it can resolve its problems directly with Putin.

[Mikhail Ivanov]

The legal status of this whole case is the machinations of power. And on the face of a violation of laws and by and large, this is an article. Putin himself said who financed it, so there is no need for confessions. Another question is that by killing the leadership of the musicians and arresting the main commanders, the authorities closed the last elevator to those who would like to fight for Russia! Everyone was shown that Abramovich's visit to the Moscow Region is more important than the war! In other words - keep in mind, we are power and gods, and you are all cockroaches, we will have to crush everyone ... The message, alas, is this ...

[Oleg Ogorod]

There is such a party!
Rabinovich. Ugh, Abramovich!
Chelsea was taken from him, he's angry.
Now you need to look for other entertainment in life.
He once replaced the birch, and will replace the cook.

[kromer]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

Rabinovich. Ugh, Abramovich!
Chelsea was taken from him, he's angry.

Abramovich gives iPhones to the Nazis. He is not suitable for the role of a heroic businessman and patriot of Russia.

[Oleg Ogorod]

The role of Abramovich is not as simple as it seems to many uninitiated.
But if someone doesn't like Abramovich, they can rely on Kadyrov. He will also be happy to take the place of a cook in the international arena, as the head of a large PMC. And doing very big business in Africa and other parts of the world, not to mention Russia.
So who do you prefer? Abramovich or Kadyrov?

[bayard]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

So who do you prefer? Abramovich or Kadyrov?

Someone less conspicuous, but more talented.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

So who do you prefer? Abramovich or Kadyrov?

And you are a provocateur, my friend ...

[Sergei N 58912062]

So who do you prefer? Abramovich or Kadyrov?

Not one not the other.

[Normal]

It is not known what was "sewn" into these iPhones. Don't you think such a non-linear gift is pretentious? With the same success it was possible to give tablets, also defies logic, or coffee machines? I would understand this if Steve Jobs did it, the founder of the company gives the product to his company, but what does Abramovich and iPhones have to do with it? Wasn't this a condition for Abramovich himself from some special services, you are promoting under such and such a condition, and allow for negotiations. As an option, I'm not saying, it's just that such a gift not connected with reality seemed strange to me.

[bayard]

Quote: svp67

judging by the list of merits, he is able to become a replacement for Utkin, but for Prigogine???????

Quote: svp67

In place of Prigogine, we need an "inveterate businessman", one who is ready for both fire and water ... for the sake of "fulfilling a contract with the Motherland ..." and with great charisma

Prigozhin was called the "curator of the PMC Wagner", and not the leader or head. I think they had a replacement for Prigozhin, according to the protocol. And they definitely had protocols for such cases.

[azkolt]

M-yes. I really hope that Wagner will be preserved as a combat unit !!! I hope that now that Prigozhin is gone, they will also be allowed to recruit from places of detention, although this will be more difficult to do without him.

[Rumata]

Quote: azkolt

they will also be allowed to recruit from places of detention.

Is it necessary today? A huge reserve of contractors is already being prepared, although those who wish from the ZK with light articles can be allowed to go to the defense of the Motherland.
Vysotsky "All terms have already been completed ...".

[Dart2027]

Quote: Rumata

A huge reserve of contractors is already being prepared, although those who wish from the ZK with light articles can be allowed to go to the defense of the Motherland.

The PMC was created to operate in Africa, not in Ukraine.

[Mike77]

Chief Beryozkin has oh and ambition, oh and show off ...

[private person]

A huge reserve of contractors is already being prepared

Yeah, all the military registration and enlistment offices are overcrowded, there is no end to those who wish.

[Tma197725]

Are you a member of the military? If not, then worry! Well, as a "private person" it can suddenly become a servant of the sovereign! So in your case, your words are not in God's ears.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote from Tma197725

Are you a member of the military? If not, then worry! Well, as a "private person" it can suddenly become a servant of the sovereign! So in your case, your words are not in God's ears.

I walk past the military registration and enlistment office every day. I don't see any volunteers.

[Normal]

Do not be ironic without knowing the equipment for sure. Many volunteers go to contract service.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Normal

Many volunteers go to contract service.

Yeah. Because of money.

[Incvizitor]

Will we also send contractors to resolve issues in Africa and America?

[al3x]

Quote: Rumata

ZK with light articles can be allowed to go to the defense of the Motherland

Yes, you need to be the ultimate idiot in order to agree to become cannon fodder on light articles.

[Normal]

Under light articles, non-criminals may serve at all. For example, a bus driver accidentally hit a passenger getting off the bus and getting into a blind spot when the bus was leaving the bus stop. Is there a crime? Eat! Is the driver a criminal? No. He committed a crime, yes, but at the same time, he was not such a criminal, that is, a criminal. And this is also an easy article. And the bus driver can be a patriot of his country, love his homeland, and take advantage of this chance. And secondly, why did you decide that a person who decides to take such a step will definitely be cannon fodder? Whence such peremptory conviction? It's just so categorically to say for everyone, it's either recklessness in the analysis, or simply stupidity. "Idiot" is spelled correctly.

[svp67]

Quote: azkolt

I hope that now that Prigozhin is gone, they will also be allowed to recruit from places of detention.

They will go through the service in "Storm-Z" and let them continue to do what they want, including going to a contract with a PMC

[tabex]

I read from an instructor who trains "Zetovites" that they, unlike the Wagner contract, conclude an additional contract without fail for a year after the "penalty one".

[storm]

azkolt (Nicholas)
Today, 16: 30
M-yes. I really hope that Wagner will be preserved as a combat unit !!!

I really hope that the country's leadership will be smart enough to unite WAGNER and MTR and create a very powerful military instrument of Russia's external influence in different parts of the world ....

[kromer]

Quote: assault

I really hope that the country's leadership will be smart enough to unite WAGNER and MTR and create a very powerful military instrument of Russia's external influence in different parts of the world ...

The MTR is the official structure of the Ministry of Defense and cannot work abroad, because. it is tantamount to a declaration of war. The Wagners have no such problems.

[Pastor]

How the MTR works in Syria was shown on television, it was written here more than once .., we also did not declare war on Syria .., even though we were "invited to an internal conflict" !!! Now the fighting is going on in the territories of Zaporozhye, Kherson regions, the LPR and the DPR, and these are the territories of the Russian Federation, I can say for sure that they are there !!! I don’t know about Kharkov ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Pastoret

that they are there!!!

Yeah. Somehow he drank with one lieutenant colonel. He spent two days in Syria, and here it is, he became a participant in hostilities.

[Sergei N 58912062]

MTR is the official structure of the Ministry of Defense and cannot work abroad, because. it is tantamount to a declaration of war.

MTR - special operations forces were just created in particular in order to work abroad.

[rocket757]

News???
Most likely not for everyone at once.

[Lech from Android.]

Running a private company and fighting are two different things.
Did Prigozhin leave to Elizarov the established connections, various information to manage the PMC?
In general, time will tell, but I wish the Hero of Russia success for the benefit of our country.

[your vsr 66-67]

Since 2003, Elizarov served in the Airborne Forces, was forced to leave the ranks of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in 2014.

The best and forced to leave the RF Armed Forces?
That's right in the head does not fit! But why be surprised?
It has always been so! Well, maybe with a few exceptions!
There are many examples of this! Take at least SVO. Who needs outstanding commanders? After all, they can outshine someone!

[Skobaristan]

As far as I remember, he didn't have a very good story. Problems with law. And not just because he was forced to leave the army.

[Rumata]

Quote: Skobaristan

As far as I remember, he didn't have a very good story. Problems with law.

Can you elaborate, or maybe the stupid law had problems with Lotus?

[Skobaristan]

They wrote below. For memory, some kind of fraud with an apartment

[Oleg Ogorod]

Hero of Russia.
He can't get in trouble with the law.
Only the dead have problems with the law.

[Skobaristan]

Anyone who breaks this very law can have problems with the law. There are cases when former criminals became heroes and heroes violated the laws. Why the passage about death and the photo of Prigozhin, I don’t understand. Probably they wanted to throw something on? Feel free to write directly.

[Oleg Ogorod]

Hero of Russia (official) cannot be a criminal. It's easier to eliminate it. Like Rokhlin. As well as .... And having become the Hero of Russia, all his previous sins are forgiven, that is, they are annulled. Well, or canceled. The MoD is now heavily recruiting criminals, nullifying their crimes. Criminal officials in prison are simply delighted with this. Negotiating with whom it is necessary not to be near the LBS. Six months, and everything, everything is reset to zero. To freedom with a clear conscience. True, not everyone shines at the same time to become a Hero of Russia. But they are not offended.
These photos are for the fact that this man was not the last person in the PMC for a long time, but was very close to Prigozhin.

[Skobaristan]

If you start reading the comments from the beginning, you will see that it was about his dismissal from the army. Which is not just. At the moment,.officially, and as far as I understand, his criminal record has been annulled. 14 years have already passed since the age of 9, and three years have already ended conditionally. An excellent passage about officials. Can you share examples? Well, for example: Vasya Pupkin was imprisoned for a bribe, he enlisted, but he paid and agreed and was not at the front, but sits in a tavern,

[Tma197725]

The law cannot be stupid! It either exists or it does not exist. Everything else is demagogy. Any forces that come to power seek, above all, to observe this law! So it was and will be! You can come up with a new one! And then there will still be an electorate who considers him stupid. Which way will we go? Plant a particularly intractable electorate, change the law, or to hell with it! Anarchy is the mother of order, and Krapotkin is our father!

[your vsr 66-67]

Krapotkin is ours

If it comes to that, then not KrApotkin, but KrOpotkin.
Born and raised in the city named after him!

[Essex62]

And he recognized order and law in every possible way. Only his own order and his own law. Anarchists are not lawless, as they are shown in the movies. There was a very serious organized force.

[dump22]

The best and forced to leave the RF Armed Forces?

Here's the thing, he didn't quite leave on his own.
Elizarov was dismissed from the army in 2014 after the verdict of the Krasnodar garrison military court for a crime under article 159 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (fraud). He received three years probation and a fine of one hundred thousand rubles.

[Oleg Ogorod]

And went to the Donbass?
Do you think Girkin shooters with a dozen fighters alone muddied everything there?
Strelkov was just an information screen.
And others did the work. Pro.

[dump22]

And went to the Donbass?

No. He joined Wagner and went to Syria, and then to the Central African Republic.

Strelkov was just an information screen.

So Strelkov himself is a military pro.
Passed Transnistria, Bosnia, both Chechen wars, served in the reconnaissance regiment of the Airborne Forces.
Retired in 2013.

[Skobaristan]

The story with the Strelka group, let's say, is not very clear. There, all the events of 14 years are waiting in the wings, what happened and how. How pro shooters are in military affairs is also a question, an adventurer, yes without a doubt. Had an impact, too, yes.

[dump22]

How pro shooters are in military affairs is also a question

Of course the question!
He fought intermittently from 1993 to 2013. In 20 years he went from private (!) to colonel.
A typical adventurer, of course, a "normal" military man cannot have such a track record.

[Skobaristan]

The track record says nothing. And the fact that an adventurer, in this sense, is not a negative, but a character. That's for sure. What is the cost of participating in the war in the Balkans. As a person, I casually crossed paths with him on the forum. He seemed touchy and harsh to me. And reading the memoirs of those with whom he was from the age of 14, the impression is contradictory.

[Poplar]

adventurer, no doubt.

I myself am not a paratrooper, but I have a lot of experience with the paratroopers that were in Afghanistan. I can tell you with all responsibility: any real paratrooper is an adventurer. And this is their plus.

[Skobaristan]

It was this meaning that I put into Strelkov's characterization.

[minus]

I have read the cases myself several times. Everything is dull. I do not exclude the option that the command wanted to throw an officer into housing.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote from: dump22

He received three years probation and a fine of one hundred thousand rubles.

That's how the financial unit was delighted. Ten times fined.

[Ross xnumx]

One can only assume that Anton Elizarov is a worthy person.

[Ryaruav]

a worthy warrior of Russia, as it turns out in Wagner, a lot of the LDNR is the result of the unsuitable policy of the leadership of the Russian Federation and the Russian Navy

[kill the fascist]

Combat and honored officer. I hope that he will become the commander of the Orchestra - so to speak, the flesh of the flesh of this PMC. Not the fact that the organization will accept someone from outside. Of course, Prigozhin's ambition and charisma will not be enough in terms of PR, but on the other hand, because of this ambition, everything ended so tragically. And what will eventually come out of the PMC, only time will tell.

[Lech from Android.]

Quote: your vsr 66-67

Who needs outstanding commanders? After all, they can outshine someone!

The command staff is just divided into three categories ... those who know how to fight, those who do not know how to fight and are only suitable for staff work, those who are only suitable for parades and demonstration performances.
A typical combat general Rokhlin, allegedly shot dead by his wife.
Troshev who died in a plane crash.
A typical staff officer Grachev ... hehe, who promised to take Grozny with two regiments of the Airborne Forces ...
I think Shoigu is not capable of fighting ... tank biathlon can still be organized, but for the rest we see everything in the NWO.
The current war will show which of the modern generals is able to really fight with the Armed Forces of Ukraine and NATO.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Lech from Android.

those who do not know how to fight and are only suitable for staff work,

Staff work is very specific and not every good combat commander is able to become a good staff officer.
Just like not every good staff officer is able to become a good commander.
For example. In the Wehrmacht, a fair number of staff officers and generals have never been in command positions. They didn't even command a platoon. But the headquarters worked well. And without the good work of the headquarters, do not expect stable success.

[Poplar]

Not a "staff officer", but a "staff officer". The staff officer is a careerist at the headquarters, and the staff officer is more of a theoretician. And yes, for example, Zhukov was the chief of the General Staff, but it was not him, and he understood this and therefore, one might say, left this position.
A good staff officer is akin to a theoretical scientist: a scientist discovers some laws, and his discoveries are put into practice by others - practices. It seems to me, somehow.

[Msi]

A typical staff officer Grachev ... hehe, who promised to take Grozny with two regiments of the Airborne Forces ...

why "hehe" what cheered you up?

[Tma197725]

But he hehe Terrible did not take! Once again I repeat the operation by Pulikovsky was developed according to all the canons! Everything just came together but! All but the 90s In which neither the generals nor the soldiers nor the brigade commander 136 and other parts of the Moscow Region and V.V are to blame, God rest the souls of the fallen, and may the survivors be forgiven!

[Mordvin 3]

Quote from Msi

why "hehe" what cheered you up?

Grachev. He promised to take Grozny with two airborne divisions.

[Lech from Android.]

This is not fun, this is sarcasm ... generals should not scatter empty words around me.

[your vsr 66-67]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Quote: your vsr 66-67

Who needs outstanding commanders? After all, they can outshine someone!

The command staff is just divided into three categories ... those who know how to fight, those who do not know how to fight and are only suitable for staff work, those who are only suitable for parades and demonstration performances.
A typical combat general Rokhlin, allegedly shot dead by his wife.
Troshev who died in a plane crash.
A typical staff officer Grachev ... hehe, who promised to take Grozny with two regiments of the Airborne Forces ...
I think Shoigu is not capable of fighting ... tank biathlon can still be organized, but for the rest we see everything in the NWO.
The current war will show which of the modern generals is able to really fight with the Armed Forces of Ukraine and NATO.

Thank you! Everything has been sorted out!

[Tma197725]

Staff work is analytics, working with intelligence, the ability to concentrate the rear, reserves at the right time in the right place. Most often, you won’t recognize these people not only by their last names, but also by their ranks. Grachev, at the time when everything collapsed, I think he did what he could, put Rokhlin or God forbid Lebed of the Ministry of Defense, I think the result would not be better, but rather the opposite. Yes, and moreover, Pasha’s operation then the same Rokhlin was in charge of Pulkovsky. It’s just, Mercedes, how the minister remained extreme. Yes, and what about the generals? The army was already at the stage of decomposition.

[Poplar]

Typical staff officer Grachev ...

Grachev, just not a staff member even once. A combat officer, a paratrooper, an Afghan, but not a staff officer, and your example speaks of this. And for some reason, your category "staff man" has some kind of negative connotation. The headquarters is the brain of the army, but if an officer sits at the headquarters, this does not mean that he is a staff member. And if we give an example of a typical staff officer, then this is Shaposhnikov B.M. times of WWII. But the term "staff officer" is quite suitable for most of those at the headquarters.

[ASM]

It seems that Elizarov is a man of war. Now psheks and foflams have something to fear. After all, the orchestra consists not only of attack aircraft, there are also professional military intelligence officers and saboteurs. I won’t be surprised if something military explodes in Poland, especially since they started a movement.

[dump22]

https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2023/06/27/982556-putin-chvk-vagner

The maintenance of PMC "Wagner" was fully provided by the state - for the year the authorities paid the military company over 86 billion rubles. This was stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin during a meeting with the military.

And the usual Major Yelizarov will now be imprisoned for all this huge cash flow?
Somehow doubtful.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote from: dump22

in a year, the authorities paid over 86 billion rubles to the military company.

Probably spent, but not paid.
This amount includes equipment and weapons and equipment and ammunition and monetary allowances, etc. and so on.
And it's not that much.
Wagner was about one-tenth the size of all combat units in the NWO.
He received financially about 1,2 billion dollars.
Those. all SVO during the year (with a uniform distribution of costs) should have cost about 12-15 billion dollars.
I strongly doubt that the Ministry of Defense met this amount.
It’s even better if, in fact, it cost 25-30 billion rubles a year.

[dump22]

This amount includes equipment and weapons and equipment and ammunition and monetary allowances, etc. and so on.

No. Putin named precisely the salary and other payments, and they received all the equipment and ammunition free of charge in the Moscow Region.

https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2023/06/27/982556-putin-chvk-vagner

According to him, from May 2022 to May 2023, the state paid the company about 86,2 billion rubles for salaries and incentive payments. “Of these, cash support - 70,38 billion rubles, incentive payments - 15,87 billion rubles, [additionally] insurance payments - 110,17 billion rubles. At the same time, the owner of the Concord company [Evgeny Prigozhin’s holding company] through Voentorg <...> earned 80 billion rubles from the state by supplying food and providing catering services to the army, ”Putin noted.

[A2AD]

they received all the equipment and ammunition free of charge in the Moscow Region.

We even have military personnel of the Ministry of Defense, not everyone receives free from the Ministry of Defense. And then some kind of PMC ...

[Eleazar bin Shaul]

Sorry, of course, but some chavEka, it's you. There are heroes, but there is a sheep

[Eleazar bin Shaul]

And what, they also had to pay for the BP ??? it’s not bad to defend the Motherland and pay for bullets and gunpowder

[tralflot1832]

Someone really wants to support in the media field so that PMC Wagner is in the first roles. Although it is clearly seen that PMC Wagner wants to go into the "shadow" as it was before. They seem to be there, but at the same time they are not there, a golden time for them in both versions. The Wagner structure itself was created to work outside the media field. They now need to go into "silence" and everything will be fine with them.

[Earring]

People really want to hear about heroes, about living legends! Television and media fistulas are already causing vomiting. Wagner fits here better than anyone. Young people need a "Man with a capital letter". And not only young people.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: tralflot1832

it is clearly seen that the Wagner PMC itself wants to go into the "shadow" as it was before.

One Wagnerian responded to a reporter's question: "In general, we have been serving for a long time. We were just not well known."
By the way, how many rang that Wagner took Volnovakha?
Or that during the Kharkov "regrouping" Wagner closed more than 130 kilometers of front hole?
Earlier episodes such as Palmyra in Syria and the North Wind in the Donbass also passed without unnecessary noise and ringing.

[Mint Gingerbread]

In general, very strange behavior for a PMC. These structures try not to shine anywhere. Have you heard about any PMC in Ukraine, except for those parrots who themselves decided to make a stuffing in the media? Everything is encrypted. For heroes, there is an army and other official structures, and the task of such comrades is to do work for money and not to shine, like special services. You have chosen this profession. People don't need to know about them.

[svarog77]

Without the hysterical and swaggering Prigogine, the Wagners had splendid opportunities.

[A2AD]

Without the hysterical and swaggering Prigogine, the Wagners had splendid opportunities.

Under the direction of whom? Reindeer breeder? Remind about a herd of lions led by a ram?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote from A2AD

Under the direction of whom? Reindeer breeder?

Reindeer herder henpecked. I don't understand how you can live like this. Either he was a communist type, then he distributed machine guns at Gaidar's request, then he was Yeltsin's most reliable.

[Maks1995]

What to discuss then?
If either the Kremlin or Putin openly said: "There is no Wagner" (literally).

Maybe there will be some kind of stub, but Wagner was already guided by Putin's people, so one stub, many stubs - there is no big role.

The oligarchs quarreled, and now the troupes, at first simple mizhiks, then ordinary pilots, now there is less than one oligarch ..

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Max1995

Putin openly said: "There is no Wagner"

And who is Putin?

[tuts]

Command Wagner (in my opinion) should be a man with titanium eggs

[A2AD]

Command Wagner (in my opinion) should be a man with titanium eggs

At the feeder there are none and never have been. And they won't let strangers in there.

[Eleazar bin Shaul]

and is there a Wagner TG among several at once, about nothing, garbage dumps?

[Katya_Ivanova]

To replace Prigozhin, Elizarov lacks three walkers.

[Ovsigovets]

Quote: Maz

People believed Prigogine, he was straight as a crowbar. And this, after the murder of Prigozhin and Utkin, there will be a profanation of the PMC Wagner, even the ruble fell once again. On these lands ... tyah ... noodles on the ears. They killed their own and, obviously, with the sanction of Putin, they took off over Russian soil, from a Russian airfield. They also had to sit down within Russia. Only FSB, CO and GRU can do this. All that are under the control of the Supreme. So sho this thing smells very bad, if not stinks of rot in the upper echelons of power. No matter how Luka and VVP cover him. And the father, with his guarantees of the inviolability of Prigozhin and his commanders, is just now no one, no matter what they say. He has no faith. I won't be surprised if the Wagner people leave
in the same blackwater or French foreign legion. There, at least they don’t deceive, they don’t undermine their own people and they pay in full with both citizenship and money. This is going to be badass. And this is what it all comes down to. Having learned the taste of justice, freedom and simplicity of ingenious management, the people will not reach for Gerasim and his pack near the state feeder ...

in all countries, PMCs are clearly subordinate to the Ministry of Defense without any attempts to portray some kind of independent force, these companies are created only with the permission of the state (government) for purposes strictly defined by the state, and usually PMCs are managed by people clearly led by special services and therefore it would be strange that Prigozhin would be forgiven for attempting an armed rebellion .... I decided not to bite a piece (I have no complaints or hostility towards Prigogine, I’m just writing the obvious things). And therefore, if it is necessary to have a PMC, it will be created or the existing one will be rebranded and will be called, for example, PMC "black lotus" and the staff will either leave or stay .....

[Poplar]

Russia is not "all countries", we, like almost everything, have their own specifics. In all countries, PMCs fight purely for money, but in our country they also fight for an idea. This is first. And secondly, if Wagner had been directly subordinate to the Ministry of Defense, I think there would not have been the supply problems in Artemovsk that Prigozhin was shouting about. Yes, and in Syria, they write, there were also some "inconsistencies" with the Defense Ministry. Those. specificity again - Wagner was originally created without subordination of the Moscow Region. And there is also a problem with the legal status, and, I think, it was specially laid down during the creation: if something goes wrong, you can always easily close this office. In short, our cunning government, as always, left itself room for maneuver: all agreements are only in words, so as not to be responsible for anything. So I think the format will stay about the same.

[Ovsigovets]

Quote: Thrifty

There, he immediately needs an understudy, otherwise the Kremlin will suddenly decide that he takes on too much!

he needs to clearly fulfill the task and that's all .... and an understudy is not needed

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote from A2AD

Under the direction of whom? Reindeer breeder?

Reindeer herder henpecked. I don't understand how you can live like this. Either he was a communist type, then he distributed machine guns at Gaidar's request, then he was Yeltsin's most reliable.

And now Putin has an angler-athlete.

[Fangaro]

Why "was forced to leave the ranks of the RF Armed Forces in 2014"?

[Rainfall]

Vadym Skibitsky of Ukraine's military intelligence said in a German interview a few months ago that the groups were seeking to assassinate Prigozhin. What will Anton do to stop Ukraine from more murders?
https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/plus245469316/Geheimdienst-der-Ukraine-Putin-steht-ganz-oben-auf-der-Liste-Wir-versuchen-ihn-zu-toeten.html

[Sibiryak70region]

Why wasn't he on the plane that crashed?