Homeland of tanks - Russia

36
The word "tank" (Tank) in translation from English means "tank". As you can see, tanks and Tanks have nothing in common with each other, why is it a tank? The word "tank" began to be used to designate formidable combat vehicles thanks to the British, who on September 15, 1916 first used their new combat vehicles in combat operations on the battlefields of the First World War, which at that time were called "land battleships" - Mark 1. Delivery of this new the equipment to the front was carried out in the strictest secrecy, and therefore, for the sake of conspiracy, during transportation they were hidden in wooden crates, on which, again for the purpose of diverting the eyes, the inscription "Tank" (tank) was made, and this name appeared. By the way, September 15, 1916 is officially considered to be the birthday of tank troops.

And yet the right to be called the birthplace of tanks belongs to Russia. Russian officers in Tsarist Russia always differed with magnificent, as a rule, engineering, artillery, military education, and the inborn talent of many of them led to the creation of new inventions, including in the new direction of military thought - armored vehicles. Many Russian engineers worked on the creation of Russian tanks long before the appearance of "land battleships" among the British. Already in 1914, an eyewitness to those events, Lieutenant-General A.V. Schwartz, wrote about the first experiments on the assault of fortresses using Russian tanks in XNUMX in the newspaper of the Russian emigration Russia.

Here is an excerpt from that article: “Engineer Lisyakov took the hottest part in these experiments. One evening, Lisyakov came to me to report on his invention of a moving machine, the purpose of which was:“ move ahead of the attackers and prepare them the way destroying wire nets and other obstacles with their own weight and overcoming trenches and external moats of field fortifications. ”In appearance, this machine, or as we were inclined to call it then, the tractor, depicted them in a drawing EXACTLY ACCURATE The second year he appeared in England as the FIRST TANK. " Schwartz also writes that the project of the "tractor" was transferred to the stake, where it was proudly shown to the allies, so that, as they say, no comment was necessary.

The further development of the Russian school of tank building, and later the Soviet school, in the militaryhistorical examples secured the right to be called the world's best tank building school.

Now various theorists are measuring modern tanks with military-technical coefficients and firmly believe that the higher such a coefficient, the better the tank will manifest itself in combat conditions.



But if we turn to historical examples, we can see that this opinion is far from always true. The legendary T-34 can serve as such an example, and although this example belongs to the category “Russia cannot be understood by the mind”, nevertheless, the T-34 tank entered its name in history and became a true legend of that Great War.

Compared with the German tank Pz-5 Panther, the T-34 was inferior to him in almost all characteristics, but the Panther was complex and time consuming in production, and while the Fascists produced one, our primitive T-34 went out as much as five, and this overbalance 5: 1, turned out to be decisive in combat, which resulted in our tanks as a result of victory.



The Russian tank construction school made conclusions from this instructive example and does not strive to be the first in the battle of coefficients, making tanks cheaper, simpler and more technological than the bourgeois ones, securing their numerical advantage with equal industrial resources in the extreme conditions of war.

But Western tank builders continue to invent the “bicycle”, making heavy, “capricious” tanks that require special conditions even in terms of simple movement through the terrain, but having the highest coefficients.



A typical Russian tank is narrow, long and low, designed to take into account the conditions of independent movement across the terrain, as convenient as possible for railway transportation and, compared to its foreign counterparts, light as a feather, its weight balances within 35-40 tons, true with T-90 the mass reaches 45-48 tons, but at the same time it is still lighter than such tanks as Abrams - 59 tons or English Challenger - 64 tons. According to these important indicators, our tanks are not inferior only to the Chinese, oddly not copied from ours, but simply produced under the same conditions of use.

By the way, the Chinese Type-99 tanks are longer than ours, which allows them to achieve better frontal reservations with a small mass.



If we look at high-coefficient foreign, or rather overseas, tanks in more detail, then we can see the unstoppable flight of Western engineering thought, sometimes writing out quite fancy zigzags. For example, the high-tech tank M1 Abrams (American military canning tank), the tower of which initially could not conduct shelling of the rear sector in general, it was part-turn. After the first combat applications, this misunderstanding had to be urgently finalized, and now, thanks to the trimmed front lower armor plate of the tower, it can still be deployed, opening a gigantic, not-so-protected slit. With this decision, Abrams got another chance to lose this very tower when an ordinary high-explosive projectile hit it, while the chances of the gunner and the tank surviving were drastically reduced. At the moment, the МХNUMXА1 Abrams is a 2-ton tank with a "military-technical level" coefficient of the 50, for the destruction of which even an armor-piercing projectile is not needed from the front sector, this tank has an additional option - made to order specifically for Abrams in Germany cannon loading manually! At the same time, the production of one such tank costs 2,2 million dollars, although the price is nominal (the tank has not been produced for a long time, but only undergoes modernization), but in reality it confirms the golden rule of our school. T-15 costs 90 million rubles (about 70 million dollars). It is not difficult to calculate the difference: there will be six T-2,5 for one Abrams, progress on the face!



And even the modernization does not greatly change the balance of power, firstly, the pace of this modernization does not inspire
optimism, secondly, the issue price in general amounts to some incredible amount in 1 000 247 000 dollars.
In fact, our T-90, even though it does not reach the "Military-technical level" y - 2,2. is much more innovative than its Western competitors in terms of self-defense systems, it can be stated quite accurately. In this modification, the T-90C is capable of simultaneously reflecting two ATGMs from different directions. In Germany and the United States, the development of such a system has stalled at the experimental stage. On Israeli tanks, the Merkava has a similar one, copied from the Russian system of the past generation.

Well, as one famous TV character said: “Announce the entire list, please”, which we will do with pleasure.

So, our own Russian T-90 tank has: a 12-mm anti-aircraft machine gun mount with remote control, night vision devices TO-PO2T Agava-2TI and TPN-4-49-23 Buran-PA, multilayer armor behind ERA Contact -5 (3rd generation reactive armor), 9K119M "Reflex" high-precision anti-tank ammunition (anti-tank missile launched from the bore and guided by a computer), the TSHU-1 complex, which provides additional protection of the tank by interfering in the optical range with ATGM control lines (shells , aerial bombs, aviation UR). On the turret of the tank, 12 grenade launchers are installed for setting aerosol curtains "Shtora", "Arena" or the newer "Drozd". In addition, the enemy infantry was not forgotten, a system for remote detonation of a high-explosive fragmentation projectile (with an electronic remote fuse) was installed specially for it. And also the standard package includes an innovative device for built-in gun alignment control, an electronic ballistic computer, digital, with a capacitive wind sensor.

The ballistic characteristics of the 2А46М cannon are only slightly inferior to the German Rhexnumx cannon in accuracy at large distances, which is compensated for by the presence of a missile launched from a cannon, the accuracy of which is almost absolute, well, the snapper projectiles are slightly weaker than the German ones.

The T-90 is an excellent combat vehicle, not very convenient in terms of comfort for the crew, but in a real battle, even the pampered American warriors are unlikely to be comfortable even in the most comfortable car. This is a relatively inexpensive tank, which traditionally has an offensive specialization, and is best suited for successful combat operations in countries with poorly developed transport infrastructure and on weak, watered soil. The T-90 tank is a combat vehicle capable of winning in the same way as its legendary ancestor, the heroic T-34 tank.

From the direct competitors of our tank, I would like to mention the German Leopard-2, so that no one would think that only our tank builders made conclusions from tank battles. Leopard-2 is also technically not very complicated and has a relatively low cost. The Germans have learned well the lessons of the past war. By cons of the Leopard can be attributed to its decent weight in 60 tons and huge size.



A lot was said about the second competitor Abrams, but I would also like to add that the combat use of this vehicle in Iraq revealed a number of shortcomings. It turned out that although the frontal armor is quite strong, but the back, top and side armor does not stand up to grenade launcher fire, even from rather old types of grenade launchers launched in the distant 50s of the last century. More serious types of grenades, such as, for example, RPG-7В, hit "Abrams" with a higher probability of up to 70% in the roof of the tower and up to 55% in the side of the tower and the side of the hull above the rinks.

And finally, a small battle bike, telling about the Syrian tank driver and another ancestor of the T-90 tank T-72. Coming out of a heavy battle, the heroic Syrian tanker, kissing the armor of his military friend T-72, sheathed by shells, told how he had knocked down M-60 and Merkava and believed in the power of RUSSIAN TANKS who could win.

About Abrams, Leopards, etc. - there are no such legends for sure!
36 comments
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  1. +2
    7 February 2013 08: 50
    article in the spirit of rashen elephant big friend finish finish elephant.
    1. +3
      7 February 2013 09: 01
      stas52,

      that's right:

      UN announces Year of the Elephant. Different countries publish books on the elephant theme.
      Americans published an illustrated brochure, "All About Elephants."
      French - volume "Love games of elephants."
      The Germans - "Introduction to Elephant Studies" in ten volumes.
      Jews - "Elephants and the Jewish Question."
      A three-volume edition was published in the Soviet Union: "Classics of Marxism-Leninism on Elephants", "USSR - the Homeland of Elephants" and "Elephants in the Light of Decisions of the XXVI Congress of the CPSU."
      A translation of the Soviet edition was published in Bulgaria, and an additional volume - “The Bulgarian elephant is the younger brother of the Soviet elephant”.
      Mongolia has published a brochure "The Mongolian elephant - the 16th elephant in the Soviet zoo."
      1. +6
        7 February 2013 15: 59
        I don’t even know how to recall the DA Vinci tank or armored land trains from the Anglo-Boer War.
        1. Skavron
          +4
          7 February 2013 16: 10
          Kars, it's time for you to grab a pen and burst into a series of articles on eliminating tank illiteracy laughing
          1. +2
            7 February 2013 16: 25
            I can’t just criticize. Or copy-paste. I’m not a writer)))))
            1. 0
              7 February 2013 17: 22
              By the way, was the automatic loader stuck on the SEP, or is the Negro Joe throwing blanks into the breech in the old fashioned way?
              1. +1
                7 February 2013 18: 12
                Quote: cth; fyn
                stuck an automatic loader or the old man Negro Joe discs

                By stapinka. There is no point in changing something. All the same, the rate of fire is decent. And the redistribution of the masses will not happen without a new tower.
                1. 0
                  7 February 2013 18: 31
                  but as far as I understand, when moving a tank that tracks a target, does the real rate of fire fall? because it’s hard to hit a moving breech with a projectile, all the more so since the whole tank is moving, and a hit with steel garbage per ton weighing a hand is guaranteed a fracture and it turns out that after each shot Abrams needs to either slow down or make a short one?
                  1. 0
                    7 February 2013 22: 21
                    Quote: cth; fyn
                    when moving a tank that tracks the target, does the real rate of fire fall? because

                    Why would it? Everyone usually boasts of a technical rate of fire. And the real one is less than 4 per minute.
                    Quote: cth; fyn
                    it’s hard to get into a moving breech, especially since the whole tank is moving,

                    For starters, Soviet automatic weapons use a constant charging angle. Therefore, the barrel returns in any case to a fixed angle.
                    Quote: cth; fyn
                    it turns out that after each shot Abrams needs to either slow down or make a short one?

                    no, it’s not necessary. And the speed when shooting at any one cannot be more than 20-30 km, otherwise the stabilizer drive can’t cope. Also, the barrel moves in one strip up and down in relation to the charging one by a maximum of 10-12 degrees. The charger rotates together with the tower being stationary relative to the breech of the gun in the horizontal.
                    Quote: cth; fyn
                    and a stroke of steel garbage per ton weighing on the hand guaranteed fracture

                    Not to be confused with bestowal.
                    Also, I'm not quite sure about all models of tanks, but the loader has the ability to fix the gun by turning off the stabilizer.

                    So the argument about the loader is a pointless argument. There are advantages and disadvantages.
                    1. Nechai
                      0
                      8 February 2013 02: 02
                      Quote: Kars
                      the speed when firing at any rate cannot be more than 20-30 km, otherwise the stabilizer drive will not work. The barrel also moves up and down in one strip with respect to the charging one by a maximum of 10-12 degrees. The charger rotates with the turret being motionless relatively breech guns horizontal.

                      Andrey, about 4 shots per minute. The faster you fire the second and subsequent shots, the higher the probability of defeat, since the Shooting Conditions remain little different from the INITIAL. And the correction introduced by you, if necessary, increases this probability. The main time in battle is spent to a greater extent on DETECTING the target, well, a bit on the preparation of shooting data. I already told you that my showdown received a gold watch as a reward for Commander-in-Chief Sukh. Voisk of Army General Pavlovsky. Our crew from check-in to check-out ensured target hit by conscripts faster than Kazan cadets of the Tank School, firing from the T-80.
                      About a speed of 20-30 km / h. According to the course of firing, the speed on the directress's track should be 36 km / h. In battle, she is the MOST POSSIBLE. When the gunner has everything ready, he commands the mech - "Track!" He slows down. Shot and forward.
                      When the gun’s barrel exceeds the calculated parameters of the swing moment, the automation puts the system on the hydraulic stop. And then, naturally, unstops. The tower (horizontal fire) also has a similar system. It significantly slows down the escape of the tower, practically stops him. Because now all tank sights with an independent line of sight in the vertical plane (the Yugoslavs did this plus and in the horizontal, 5 degrees to the side), the gunner DOESN’T notice almost these instant fading of the guns. And the shot MAY occur only when the axis of the barrel channel is on the calculated line of the projectile angle. Naturally in VN and GN.
                      Each tank has a VN gun stabilizer lock, it stands on the guard of the gun. Naturally at the zakidny, and in vehicles with AZ (MZ) the tank commander. Here are the large changes in the angles of rotation of the tower create loader significant difficulties. And at the moment of turning the tower (a dangerous target was suddenly discovered) with a transfer speed, he will not be able to get the shell from the storage rack and from the main ammunition that is near the MTO partition, and even more so on the sides of the hull. Well, if in the tower aft niche there are still shells. But they are shot first of all, as a rule.
                      1. 0
                        8 February 2013 02: 33
                        Quote: Nechai
                        Andrey, about 4 shots per minute

                        I already mentioned that it’s not a tanker.
                        Quote: Nechai
                        The main time in battle is spent to a greater extent on DETECTING the target, well, a bit on the preparation of shooting data.

                        This is yes, and here the set and characteristics of aiming and observation devices begin to tell. Which are not particularly related to the charging.
                        Quote: Nechai
                        Kazan cadets of the Tank School, firing from the T-80

                        And this is also in favor of professional and / or well-coordinated crews which, as we see from the example, are not a loader.
                        Quote: Nechai
                        should be 36km / h

                        Well, as if guessed. Almost. At least some talk about shooting at a speed of 60 km in a jump.
                        Quote: Nechai
                        especially on the sides of the hull, he will not be able to

                        We have here specifically about the black.
                        Quote: cth; fyn
                        the old-fashioned black man Joe throws discs into the breech?

                        which implies a tin can of democratizers (in everyday life M1A2SEP) with its BC located almost completely in the feed niche.
                        Quote: Nechai
                        with a throwing speed, he will not be able to get a shell from the storage rack and from the main ammunition compartment, which is located near the MTO partition, and even more so on the sides of the hull

                        By the way, I was interested in this question for a long time --- but not whether it is practiced or not
                        instructions for the loader to constantly (whenever possible) transfer shells from distant (inaccessible) stacks to the place of spent first-round shots.
                    2. 0
                      8 February 2013 12: 33
                      Quote: Kars
                      Not to be confused with bestowal.

                      And even without recoil, the stabilizer motors can turn any grasping body of a tanker between a breech and a stroke limiter into a candidate for amputation.
                  2. 0
                    8 February 2013 12: 30
                    Quote: cth; fyn
                    but as far as I understand, when moving a tank that tracks a target, does the real rate of fire fall? because it’s hard to hit a moving breech with a projectile, all the more so since the whole tank is moving, and a hit with steel garbage per ton weighing a hand is guaranteed a fracture and it turns out that after each shot Abrams needs to either slow down or make a short one?

                    Everything is simpler - in Abrams, the loader presses a button, turning off the stabilizer, the gun barrel is brought into position for loading. After the cannon is loaded, it again presses the button including the stabilizer, after which it takes up a position for firing, and reports to the commander about the readiness of the cannon for firing.
        2. postman
          +1
          7 February 2013 17: 00
          Quote: Kars
          I don’t even know remember the tank DA Vinci

          Carthaginians remember

          и
          Epimachus (Dimitri Poliorketa - A. Macedonian)

          Helepolis

          and Byzantium (Agetor)
          1. +1
            7 February 2013 18: 07
            Well, I don’t know, siege towers are not at all.
            If flattery is far away then I will probably be for fighting mamantov ukrov e Indian elephants.
            1. postman
              0
              7 February 2013 18: 26
              Quote: Kars
              Well, I don’t know, siege towers are not at all.

              Is that more then?

              Wagenburg?

              Hussite military cart?


              Tank Background
              3000 BC: the Sumerians constructed a four-wheeled war chariot crushing the enemy. / power of the Hittite empire

              The most significant progress in the background of the tank was reached in medieval times. Chinese Song Dynasty Army developed an iron-clad chariot, to use it against the cavalry of the Tatars, who ousted the Song Dynasty from northern China. This invention helped in 1127 to stop the advancement of the Tatars and led to the creation of a border that lasted 100 years.

            2. postman
              +1
              7 February 2013 18: 28
              Quote: Kars
              Well, I don’t know, siege towers are not at all.

              Is that more then?

              Wagenburg?

              Hussite military cart?


              Tank Background
              3000 BC: the Sumerians constructed a four-wheeled war chariot crushing the enemy. / power of the Hittite empire

              The most significant progress in the background of the tank was reached in medieval times. Chinese Song Dynasty Army developed an iron-clad chariot, to use it against the cavalry of the Tatars, who ousted the Song Dynasty from northern China. This invention helped in 1127 to stop the advancement of the Tatars and led to the creation of a border that lasted 100 years. negative
              1. +1
                7 February 2013 18: 55
                Quote: Postman
                the Sumerians constructed a four-wheeled war chariot

                Maybe with ancient history I was not particularly interested in the school program.
                All the same, I will offer at least a steam engine. To start the history of the tank as such. Horses, the muscular strength of a person. Walk-cities is not quite the same. Although it was.
                1. postman
                  0
                  7 February 2013 19: 12
                  Russian: Tank - armored fighting vehicle
                  German: Panzerkampfwagen (PzKpfw) armored motorized (with power drive) wagon (wagon)
                  English: tank is a tracked, armored fighting vehicle tracked armored fighting vehicle
                  EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON HOW TO OPERATE THE CONCEPT
                  The world's first armored car was built by Paul Daimler in his Austrian factories in 1903-1905. Characteristics: 4 cylinders, working volume 4400 cm3, 30 l. with. at 1050 rpm, drive on the wheel axle, weight 2 t. crew 4 people, armament 37 mm gun and 2 machine guns, speed up to 45 km / h.

                  Vehicle '' MarineVagen '' Daimler systems

                  HG Wells 12.1903 Strand Magazine "The Land Ironclads" story (land battleship)

                  do you make a model?


                  On October 1, 1916, in a letter to Wells, Churchill thanked him for the idea, and in 1925, in a lawsuit: "who invented the tank" Winston Churchill testified under oath that the idea came from H. Wells.

                  PS, I’m all about the fact that both the wheel and the tank, of course, were invented by the Russians
                2. postman
                  +3
                  7 February 2013 19: 17
                  Russian: Tank - armored fighting vehicle
                  German: Panzerkampfwagen (PzKpfw) armored motorized (with power drive) wagon (wagon)
                  English: tank is a tracked, armored fighting vehicle tracked armored fighting vehicle
                  EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON HOW TO OPERATE THE CONCEPT
                  The world's first armored car was built by Paul Daimler in his Austrian factories in 1903-1905. Characteristics: 4 cylinders, working volume 4400 cm3, 30 l. with. at 1050 rpm, drive on the wheel axle, weight 2 t. crew 4 people, armament 37 mm gun and 2 machine guns, speed up to 45 km / h.

                  Vehicle '' MarineVagen '' Daimler systems

                  HG Wells 12.1903 Strand Magazine "The Land Ironclads" story (land battleship)

                  do you make a model?


                  On October 1, 1916, in a letter to Wells, Churchill thanked him for the idea, and in 1925, in a lawsuit: "who invented the tank" Winston Churchill testified under oath that the idea came from H. Wells.

                  PS, I’m all about the fact that both the wheel and the tank, of course, were invented by the Russians
                  1. +2
                    7 February 2013 20: 35
                    Quote: Postman
                    do you make a model?

                    No, there is a ripening desire in me to make a model 30 of the tower battery of one tower. And there should be enough room in the room.

                    you know how in the Simpsons there was once a model of a monument in Washington and a model of a weight obatsva. All the stella were chosen.
                  2. +1
                    7 February 2013 22: 20
                    You can recall Mendeleev on the occasion.
                    The performance characteristics of the tank V. D. Mendeleev (design) Weight 173,2 tons; the mass of armor is 86:46 tons; armament mass 10,65 tons; crew 8 people; length with gun 13 m, body length 10 m, height with a machine gun turret raised 4,45 m, height with a machine gun turret lowered 3,5 m, body height 1,8 m; gun ammunition 51 shot; the thickness of the armor is 150 mm (forehead) and 100 mm (side, feed, roof): power - engine 150 l. with.; maximum speed of 14 km / h; average ground pressure 2,5 kg / cm2.
                    1. postman
                      0
                      7 February 2013 22: 26
                      Quote: saturn.mmm
                      You can and Mendeleev

                      can. Was there a boy?
                      Well, in the sense of a valid sample?
                      look (very interesting)
                      And our tanks are fast! - the history of Russian tank building
                      1. 0
                        8 February 2013 13: 05
                        HG Wells 12.1903 Strand Magazine "The Land Ironclads" story
                        Quote: Postman
                        can. Was there a boy?
                        Well, in the sense of a valid sample?

                        There was no working model, but unlike Herbert Wells there was a real project.
                        The armor is strong.
                      2. +1
                        8 February 2013 13: 34
                        Quote: Postman
                        Well, in the sense of a valid sample?

                        There was no working model, but the project was, and in my opinion it’s better to have made the Mendeleev’s tank rather than Lebedenko’s tank.
                        And Kars can choose from this for the model. If the picture is hard to see, then the link http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWI/rusRover/
                3. +1
                  7 February 2013 19: 59
                  Quote: Kars
                  It was.

                  The idea of ​​a covered platform car attacking the enemy ranks led by advancing troops arose in the Middle Ages and was enthusiastically picked up in the 8th century. Leonardo da Vinci designed a heavy turtle-shaped wagon, armed with cannons on all sides and shrouded in armor. They hoped to solve the problem of moving this platform with the help of sailing ships, but instead Leonardo proposed to put XNUMX people inside the car, setting it in motion, using a gearbox connected to the wheels. He even thought about replacing people with horses, but the idea that animals could panic, being in such a cramped and noisy space, convinced him. Leonardo mentions another type of platform equipped with braids.
              2. +2
                7 February 2013 19: 55
                + celebrated walk city unforgettable
                1. postman
                  0
                  7 February 2013 21: 05
                  Quote: tots
                  honored walk city unforgettable

                  Yes of course. This is the same option as Wagenburg and Tabor.
            3. 0
              7 February 2013 18: 33
              Biotanks wassat modern scientists have never dreamed of this.
              1. 0
                7 February 2013 21: 36
                Quote: tots
                honored walk city unforgettable
                Remember everything wink
    2. anton107798
      0
      8 February 2013 00: 16
      wonderful ... at first they write what a cool Ukrainian tank "OPLOT" is, now a week later the response from the T-90 ... hmm ...
  2. Evgan
    +5
    7 February 2013 09: 02
    M1 Abrams (American Battle Tin Can)


    The more there will be people with such capricious moods, the worse will be for our defense industry and army. A potential adversary should never be underestimated.
    1. 0
      7 February 2013 12: 41
      Yes Yes. Somehow too pathetic.
  3. melkie
    +2
    7 February 2013 09: 21
    At Abrams, the gap between the tower and the hull in the frontal projection is very impressive and it is much more difficult to miss there than to get there is a fact.
  4. +9
    7 February 2013 09: 28
    Uh, how the article raised the mood, of course you shouldn’t underestimate the rivals, but T72 fights normally in Syria. I haven’t seen crumpled abrams anywhere during the battle that are able to continue fighting, there are plenty of such shots from Syria about T72, abrams either burned out or new everywhere, frames with military operations just show that the author of the article, if he does not say absolute truth, is very close to it
  5. 0
    7 February 2013 10: 25
    The article, it seems to me, was written for inspiration. In fact, not everything is so simple. The author’s conclusion about a quantitative advantage may be justified (1 abrams at a price equal to six T-90s), but with this approach the number of personnel losses is likely to increase. There is another point - how likely is the beginning of the classic war of powers and a major clash and oncoming tank battle between the tanks mentioned above? The scenario of hostilities in the context of a local conflict is more likely. And here the concept of the Russian school of tank building can play a cruel joke.
    But in one thing I agree with the author - the Russian tank school is one of the best in the world, starting from the 30s to the present
  6. Skavron
    +2
    7 February 2013 10: 46
    Why is the article not signed ???
    And how old is the author? Actually the title of the article does not correspond to its content, and such words in the text as "bourgeois" correspond more to the humor and banter of the incomparable Chuvakin than to a half-attempt to tell the history of domestic tank building.
    Article minus. This is slag, which does not belong on a serious site.
    1. new nutella
      0
      7 February 2013 10: 53
      I agree! I remember before this article in which the holivar called "t72vsAbrams" was dispelled - and so it was a really sensible article!
      And this is some kind of outburst and desire to give out the desired as real!
  7. new nutella
    0
    7 February 2013 10: 49
    The author is a typical ololo patriot! Copy-paste excerpts from previous topics. Not a single sensible fact, only thoughts in the ear.
    But this "About Abrams, Leopards, etc. - such legends do not exist for sure!" - completely killed ...... If you have never heard anything like this - it does not mean that it is not! Minus the article!
    1. -1
      7 February 2013 21: 47
      And you are an ordinary all-composer, prosralipolymers. Turn to statistics, what is the most massive tank of the 20th century? Abrams became obsolete when he left the assembly line: it was created for tank duels, like Prokhorovka, only if the battle is on a highway or concrete road, it is not intended for a primer. There is nothing against infantry, no helicopters either. And what is this tank. Yes, he is not without advantages (for such grandmothers).
  8. +2
    7 February 2013 10: 56
    About Abrams, Leopards, etc. - such legends do not exist unambiguously! "- we need not legends and myths, but facts, proofs !!!! The site has already had a lot of more detailed articles about comparing tanks ....
    Quote: bazilio
    But in one thing I agree with the author - the Russian tank school is one of the best in the world, starting from the 30s to the present

    bazilio you +++++++++
  9. -2
    7 February 2013 11: 08
    Ukrainians rebelled, it’s clear that they don’t need our gas anymore, substituted for the Yankees, right now they’ll put their base in the European Union and will look at us like wild animals, forgetting that they were one powerful country before, a patriotic article and she’s a plus, even for this, and the author didn’t say that our tank is better, he said that it’s cheaper and more reliable, and even a two-to-one advantage will definitely be on our side
    1. new nutella
      0
      7 February 2013 11: 48
      You, about 15 years old, as I understand it ??? Because you have fostered here - it hints at such an age.
      It is everyone and everyone who steals gas, and is eager to get into NATO or even become one of the states of the USA.
      1. -1
        7 February 2013 12: 38
        I’m more than 15, just look at your flag for yourself three negative comments in a row to the article’s address, so the thought came to my mind that you are not reasoning reasonably and for any reason, I remembered our gas disputes, that the Yankees are being mastered there, So I spoke in this vein, and in fact it is not a fact that it will not be as I described. no offense I'm a patriot
        1. Skavron
          0
          7 February 2013 16: 06
          Quote: Slevinst
          three negative comments in a row to the article

          Because the article is slag.
          If the article is good, then the comments are positive, and if the article is bullshit, then the comments will be negative. And the flag has nothing to do with it.
          Reread the article carefully ... start with the title.
  10. Galim_off
    0
    7 February 2013 11: 25
    1) Abrams was developed by Chrysler, which does not know how to make tanks or cars. Initially, the tank had a lot of flaws, the military refused to take it into service, preferring the American German Leopard-2, which could be adopted by the U.S. Army to replace the M60 tanks. However, Congress banned the adoption of an imported car.
    2) Even before being adopted by the M1, it was tested against the Syrian T-72s, but all the Abrams were either completely destroyed or damaged, and the crew of 2 tanks escaped completely leaving new secret tanks. The Syrians then transferred these tanks to the USSR, where they were studied and our anti-tank weapons were tested on them, and very successfully.
    3) Here everyone is talking about what a cool tank it is, and our T-90 is gamut, but they do not take into account the fact that all these tanks have different purposes and are designed for different philosophies of warfare. Even these BMs were developed at about the same time and at the moment both the M1 and T-90s are already outdated, only we have a new tank ready, and the Americans have a dead end branch in the field of building all BMs in general. Stopudovo, their new tank will cost so much that they will rather adopt the Leopard-2, rather than engage in its production, because this line of super-expensive toys from the Yankees can be traced in everything, there is no need to go far for examples, over there they have F-22 rusts, then the pilots choke.
    1. 0
      7 February 2013 12: 39
      UVZ didn’t even try to make cars at all, this does not mean that they have bad tanks.
      1. Galim_off
        -1
        7 February 2013 13: 37
        So they do wagons. I meant the low level of engineering when creating a machine. The USA does not have special design bureaus for the design of military vehicles.
    2. +2
      7 February 2013 16: 07
      Quote: Galim_OFF
      preferring the American German Leopard-2,

      To begin with, Abrams and Leopard left the joint project of MVT-70
      Quote: Galim_OFF
      M1 was tested against the Syrian T-72

      it's a lie.
      Quote: Galim_OFF
      The Syrians then transferred these tanks to the USSR

      Then he would have stood at least one in Kubinka.
      Quote: Galim_OFF
      that they would rather take on the Leopard 2,

      It is strange and why is Abrams M1A2 CEP much worse than Leopard 2A6 to change it in response to Armata?
      Quote: Galim_OFF
      and the Americans have a dead end in the construction of all BMs in general

      And how is this branch different from the rest of the western branches? For the interest of the new Iranian prototype Zolfaghar does not resemble anything?
      1. postman
        +1
        7 February 2013 20: 07
        Quote: Kars
        And how is this branch different at all?

        And this?
        1. 0
          7 February 2013 20: 37
          They don’t do it. They didn’t. Arjun.))))))
          And so thuja mixture with the basis for Soviet tank building. But weight lemite is not real.
          1. postman
            0
            7 February 2013 21: 01
            Quote: Kars
            But weight lemite is not real.

            This is if steel
            But what about multilayer composites?
            photo US Army Research Office

            30% efficiency, 46% weight

            or scales of double hard and soft structure (as in Arapaim)
            1. +1
              7 February 2013 21: 25
              Quote: Postman
              But what about multilayer composites?
              photo US Army Research Office


              Of course, composites and all that. But for a start it is difficult to imagine them in India until 2020. Cost.
              There was recently infa that the Yankees are going to make BMPs weighing either 70 or 84 tons.

              Personally, even using composites, etc., I expect an increase in the mass of the tank (unless of course Armata shoots and comes to look for an answer to it) up to 80-85 tons.
              1. postman
                0
                7 February 2013 22: 23
                Quote: Kars
                But for starters, it’s hard to imagine them in India until 2020.


                in vain
                In 2005/06 fin. India's chemical industry market valued at $ 33,4 billion
                The chemical industry is an integral component of the Indian economy, which accounts for about 7% of Indian GDP
                According to the Ministry of Chemical Industry and Fertilizers of India, the development of this sector of the country's economy shows steady growth of 12-13% per year.

                Hindoostan Technical Fabrics Limited. (manufacturer of carbon and aramid fabrics - is a subsidiary of Hindoostan Mills, Ltd.)

                Toho Tenax Co., Ltd., the parent company of the Teijin Group in the field of carbon fibers and composites, works with it / Japan /

                IT WAS A LONG TIME AGO:
                1. 0
                  7 February 2013 22: 38
                  Quote: Postman
                  India's industry valued at $ 33,4 billion

                  You know better. But for Arjun 2 I didn’t hear something polymer, composite breakthrough among the Hindus. I won’t deny any possibility.
  11. Kiev-Ukraine
    +3
    7 February 2013 11: 43
    Coming out of a heavy battle, the heroic Syrian tankman, kissing the armor of his battle friend T-72, who was crushed by shells, told how he knocked out the M-60 and Merkavu
    - now an indignant professor will appear here, who will urgently present a photo that, first of all, the Syrians did not hit a single "Merkava", and if they did, then where is the photo of the damaged tank with the tail number, and secondly, this "Merkava" was restored laughing
    1. new nutella
      +2
      7 February 2013 11: 49
      Well, nevertheless, the Professor is still shooting with facts, like the glorious MLRS "Smerch" with his deadly missiles :)
      1. Kiev-Ukraine
        +1
        7 February 2013 11: 52
        Did you notice that he is a fan of earning facts?
      2. dixicon
        +1
        7 February 2013 12: 28
        I’m wondering, where do these facts come from?
        Infa is secret, what amers and others like them publish is, to put it mildly, propaganda.
        But about the lack of photos, yes, it is interesting why there are none. what
        1. 0
          7 February 2013 12: 41
          Syrian tanker knocked out Merkava is not a fact of course, but how would they take a photo? it is not known at what distance I still think if it’s true Merkava is not the only one who probably rode there, and the Israelis and not one country will try not to show their damaged equipment
  12. 0
    7 February 2013 12: 12
    hmm, how many of these t are we 90 s?
    1. -3
      7 February 2013 15: 11
      not a lot, but in which case you can quickly rivet
      1. +1
        7 February 2013 18: 53
        And here is the question: WHERE ??? there are no capacities. In order for tanks to rivet machines, but there are few machines, enterprises went bankrupt many times, they lost Kharkiv, Omsk died or died, one tagil remained, which is not healthy competition.
    2. +2
      7 February 2013 18: 36
      Armed? Zero. T-90S and T-90SM are export modifications of these machines.
    3. 0
      7 February 2013 18: 54
      Actually, there is no T-90S, but in general the 90s about 500 pieces. all modifications combined
  13. +1
    7 February 2013 13: 22
    Put article plus, for patriotism.
    The article is superficial of course. Of course, our tanks are better because they are controlled by the best tank crews in the world. And better than a Russian soldier is not in the world.
    1. postman
      +4
      7 February 2013 17: 08
      Quote: GOLUBENKO
      And better than a Russian soldier is not in the world.

      many in the world will disagree with this:












      1. 0
        7 February 2013 18: 46
        I don’t know how the others are, but these guys are really cool:

        I understand this is the PLA? like incubator ones.
        1. postman
          +1
          7 February 2013 19: 23
          Quote: cth; fyn

          I understand this is the PLA? like incubator ones.

          AHA.
          SO THERE is more than a billion there. there is where to choose.



          These are not the "last"

          since the princes go to battle.

          The son (s) of the comrades of the prime ministers, vice prime ministers and the presidential administration? Ministers?
    2. +8
      7 February 2013 19: 41
      And better than a Russian soldier is not in the world.

      came to his tank. more than a photo
      1. +1
        7 February 2013 21: 43
        Vasily Nikolayevich Kochetkov was born in 1785 in the Samara province in the family of a cantonist soldier, that is, a person assigned to the military department from birth. Naturally, Vasily also belonged to him. He entered the military service from the cantonists of the Life Grenadier Regiment on March 7, 1811. The Patriotic War of 1812. Kochetkov is 27 years old, and not wanting to sit out in the rear, asks for a transfer to combat units. He was appointed to the illustrious Life Grenadier Regiment, soon assigned to the Guard and named Life Guards Grenadier. In 1812, participating in rear-guard battles, this regiment retreated to Mozhaisk, and Kochetkov fought in his ranks at Borodin, fought near Leipzig, took Paris and ended the campaign with the rank of sergeant major.
        In 1820, he was transferred to the Life Guards Pavlovsky Regiment, with whom he went through the Russo-Turkish War of 1828-1829. Then there was a war with the Polish rebels, and the Russian guard pretty badly battered the adversaries on the Grokhovsky field and at Ostroleka, and in 1831 Kochetkov participated in the assault on Warsaw.
        Under Alexander I and Nicholas I, the soldier’s service lasted twenty-five years, and Vasily Kochetkov would have long been able to resign with a clear conscience, but this is not to the taste of the old servant. In 1843, at the age of 58, he departed for the Caucasian Military Theater as part of the Nizhny Novgorod Dragoon Regiment. During the year, Kochetkov was twice wounded: right through the neck and both legs with crushing of the left lower leg, but each time he returned to duty. In the battles at the village of Dargo in 1845, he was again wounded in the left shin and was captured by the Chechens. After being held captive for nine months and 23 days, Kochetkov fled when the wound healed, showing miracles of resourcefulness, for which he was awarded the 4th degree Cross of St. George.
        In 1849, Kochetkov and his regiment were in Hungary, taking part in the hostilities against the rebels. After returning from a campaign, after years of service he passed the exam and was promoted to second lieutenant. However, Kochetkov refused the epaulette; his soldier's epaulets were dear to him. He received a silver chevron on his sleeve, an officer saber lanyard, and the right to receive 2/3 of the second lieutenant’s salary. Until 1851, Kochetkov served at the headquarters of the Caucasian Corps.
        This ended the first period of his military service, which lasted forty years. During this time, Kochetkov participated: in the Patriotic War of 1812–1814, in the Turkish War of 1828–1829, in the war with Polish rebels in 1830–1831, in the Caucasian War from 1844–1849. and in the Hungarian campaign of 1849. In particular, he was: in the battle of Borodino on August 26, 1812, in the battle of Leipzig in 1813, as part of the troops that entered Paris in 1814, during the capture of the Turkish fortresses of Varna, Isakchi and Silistra in 1828-1829, in the battles on the Grokholsky field and near Ostroleka, as well as in the assault and capture of Warsaw on August 26, 1831, in affairs when the Gaitinsky forest was cut down in 1844, with the Dargo aul in 1845 and with the strengthening of the Zyryans in 1846, and, finally, in the case under Debrecin in 1849.
        So, in 1851, Kochetkov retired, having a combat biography, which is enough for seven. It would seem a well-deserved rest? But it was not there.
        Two years after his retirement, the Crimean War of 1853-1856 began, and Kochetkov again enlisted again in military service, having fallen into the Kazan Horse-Jaeger Regiment. He was among the defenders of Sevastopol, where he took part in sorties with the teams of hunters, and during the defense of the Kornilovsky bastion he was again wounded by fragments of a bomb exploding nearby.
        1. +1
          7 February 2013 21: 45
          At the end of the war, by personal order of the Emperor Alexander II, Kochetkov was transferred to the Life Guards Dragoon Regiment, and in 1862 he was transferred to the honorary company of the palace grenadiers with production as non-commissioned officers. At this time, Kochetkov was 78th year. Hung with insignia, he received sufficient maintenance, had a good official position, but felt in himself the strength for further exploits.In 1869, he submitted a report to the Highest Name with a request to allow him to transfer to units operating at the Central Asian theater of military operations.
          In Central Asia, Kochetkov participated in the battles for Turkestan and Samarkand, and in 1874 in the detachment under the command of Adjutant General Kaufman, having marched through the desert, he took Khiva. In the same 1874, he was again recalled to Russia by the High Command, having been assigned to serve in the convoy of the imperial train, but in 1876, Serbia and Montenegro revolted in the Balkans. To help the Slavic brothers in the five-thousandth detachment of Russian volunteers went and 92-year-old Vasily Kochetkov. With the beginning of the Russian-Turkish war, he entered the 19th cavalry artillery brigade. Particularly fierce fighting broke out at Shipka, and it was there that Vasily Kochetkov lost his left leg. He remained, however, alive, and in 1878, "for distinction" was transferred to the Life Guards Horse-Artillery Brigade.
          After the war, Kochetkov again returned to the company of the Palace Grenadiers, served in it for another 13 years, and then decided to return to his native land. But as stated in the “Bulletin of the Military Clergy”, “the poor soldier was completely surprised by the death, when he, having received his resignation, returned to his homeland,” May 30, 1892.
          An infinitely long series of exploits is the service of this valiant warrior, who served in 12 military units of three arms (infantry, cavalry and artillery), participated in ten campaigns and received six wounds. His uniform represented a rare occurrence, being decorated on shoulder straps with the connected monograms of three Emperors: Alexander I, Nicholas I and Alexander II, and on the left sleeve with eight rows of stripes of gold and silver galloon and braid for differences in service; 23 crosses and medals hung on the neck and on the chest of Kochetkov.
          He was at that time 107 years old. Of which, if you count from 1811, he spent 81 years in service.
  14. galiullinrasim
    0
    7 February 2013 15: 34
    what the argument is, this is better if a woman chooses a pancake. you forgot, the tank is not fighting, the crew is fighting. that’s why let's teach the soldier and not make him sweep the parade ground and watch the kitchen
  15. Sirozha
    -2
    7 February 2013 17: 12
    Uraaaaa, Rosssseya vpereeeed !!! Our tanks are the fastest, the rest is western slag! - This is the approximate content of the article!
  16. postman
    +4
    7 February 2013 17: 20
    Quote: Unknown author
    Homeland of tanks - Russia

    Lohan, who knows no barriers. "
    Several dozen British tracked dreadnoughts and battered French-made Renault vehicles were all that the Red Army's armored units initially possessed. These trophies became the starting point of the fascinating and dramatic history of the Russian tank ...









    Edward Grotte was still on our head ...





    ??
    1. 0
      7 February 2013 18: 50
      I agree, do not pull the blanket because the story is muddy. England was the first to use tanks in battle, which means they were the first, but the fact that someone suggested something there, made a sketch and so on doesn’t play a role, gentlemen did not have time, they had to move.
      1. postman
        +1
        7 February 2013 20: 07
        Quote: cth; fyn
        because the story is muddy.

        Yes, no, the story is concrete.
        Can’t you seriously consider this a tank?
  17. +1
    7 February 2013 17: 30
    "According to these important indicators, only Chinese tanks are not inferior to our tanks, oddly enough not copied from ours, but simply produced under the same conditions of use."
    Not surprising. The Chinese school of tank building developed under the influence of the Soviet one, therefore the priorities are similar.
    1. postman
      +1
      7 February 2013 20: 03
      Quote: the47th
      Chinese tank building school developed under the influence of the Soviet

      only in the PRC, because Mao was "friends" with Stalin
      and bought up to 2MB
      Renault FT17
      [img]https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRz6xO405sJCJDHXiLTI-2
      eBBKubKfE2Rg9EAazvPfMBVfNOvIv4g [/ img]


      Vickers Mk E "" Vickers six-ton. "



      and captured (type 2597 "Shinhoto Chi-Ha"):


      And this is their own development.
      wink




      NORINCO MBT-3000
  18. 0
    7 February 2013 20: 44
    By the way, the Chinese Type-99 tanks are longer than ours, which allows them to achieve better frontal reservations with a small mass.

    Forgive me the author - did not catch a direct connection between the length of the tank and the frontal reservation.
  19. 0
    7 February 2013 22: 36
    Quote: Postman
    only in the PRC, because Mao was "friends" with Stalin
    and bought up to 2MB


    "Bought" the key.

    And about
    Quote: the47th
    The Chinese tank building school developed under the influence of the Soviet


    the47th he said everything correctly.
  20. 0
    7 February 2013 23: 06
    Quote: Postman

    Quote: GOLUBENKO
    And better than a Russian soldier is not in the world.
    many in the world will disagree with this:

    Check in practice they are not recommended.
    In the XVII century, the army of Sweden was considered the most powerful army in Europe, until the army of the Russian Empire Peter the Great appeared.
    In the XVIII century, the army of the Kingdom of Prussia was considered the strongest army, until it clashed with the Russian army and ended with the capture of Berlin.
    In the XIX century, the army of France was considered the most powerful army, until it crossed the border of the Russian Empire, it all ended with the capture of Paris in 1813.
    In the 1945th century, the army of Nazi Germany was considered the most powerful army; everything ended in XNUMX with the capture of Berlin.
    In the XNUMXst century, the US and Chinese armies are considered the most powerful armies in the world.
    Do you think they dream to test the strength of a Russian soldier?
  21. 0
    8 February 2013 02: 27
    But in reality it turns out like this: in the Russian army of T-90 tanks of various modifications there are about 500 pieces (for comparison, the same India has about 700 of them), and Abramsov in the US army also has about 7000 different modifications. So a comparison of such a plan as - the production of one Abrams accounts for six T-90s, it sounds somehow ridiculous ...
    1. +1
      8 February 2013 02: 52
      He’s always a shoemaker without boots) If it comes to business, these abrams lie at the bottom of the sea ... for reference, the T-72 of all modifications is about 30 thousand.
  22. 0
    8 February 2013 07: 35
    Quote: Geisenberg

    He’s always a shoemaker without boots) If it comes to business, these abrams lie at the bottom of the sea ... for reference, the T-72 of all modifications is about 30 thousand

    Another plus tanks on BHVT starting from T-34-85 and ending with T-64. Russia has the largest number of tanks in the world, so the author is somewhat right about the homeland of tanks. soldier
    1. 0
      8 February 2013 12: 34
      Yes, in storage we have a lot of such good, at one time we tried ...
    2. +1
      8 February 2013 15: 28
      Quote: GOLUBENKO
      therefore, the author is somewhat right about the homeland of tanks

      Probably a little tinker with the USSR was the EMPIRE of tanks, and Russia and the CIS (Ukraine in particular) is a tank cemetery dotted with tanks on pedestals.
  23. 0
    9 February 2013 02: 10
    I fully agree with you !!!
  24. spanchbob
    0
    10 February 2013 16: 27
    The article is probably printed just like that — well, something is necessary! In it, even the weight of the abrams is incorrectly given. Well, complete nonsense! The author did not even subscribe!
  25. +5
    20 February 2013 00: 06
    The author, to put it mildly, "pinned" the title (but did not pierce). The essence of the article is correct: all the qualities of a tank can be tested only in combat conditions. Tank battles, such as Prokhorovsky, are an exception to the rule. The task of the tank is to qualitatively strengthen the advancing forces.
    And finally. The main part of the tank (car) is the gasket between the steering wheel (steering wheel) and the back of the driver's seat.