Military Review

Why did the army have three times more casualties than the losers?

18

And 153

“There was an interweaving of two approaches in our and the German Air Forces - rationalism and window dressing,” Dobrovolsky notes. - And yet - the different price of living on the scales stories. The Germans took care of their soldier. Ours about such categories - a lone soldier - didn’t really care. And just recently, a monument was erected to another commander, whose whole skill was in mercilessness towards his soldiers, plugging holes on the front with “cannon fodder”.


We built airplanes, rescued Chelyuskites, delivered Papanins, we had Chkalov, the great pilot of his era, flew across the North Pole to America. “We are not poor, we have thousands of them!” - this is about airplanes. Cinema is shown - "If tomorrow the war!" And when she burst out, it turned out that all those thousands of people are not suitable for hell. And 15, and 16, and 153 ... Why were they only baked in such quantities? And our newest, most secret Yaks, LAGGs, MIGs were burned on the front-line airfields on the very first day.

And on that first day it turned out that our pilots do not know how to fight. And not because they did not study well, but because they were taught the wrong thing - they crammed the party’s history, worked up the leader’s speech, brought up loyalty to their homeland, but how they showed up to the enemy’s tail, they showed more and more fingers but not the air ... will turn into quality, we will mass en masse, we cast hats.

And this is the result: at the beginning of the war, the German Air Force commanded the pilots who shot down the enemy's 25 machines by November, at the height of the battle for Moscow, raised the bar to 1941, and to 40 mu - to 1944. Some German pilots raised their score too quickly.
In his memoirs, Gerd Barkhorn, commander of the 2 th fighter squadron, where Hartmann served, wrote: “At the beginning of the war, Russian pilots were imprudent in the air, acted with constraint, and I easily knocked them down with unexpected attacks. But you still have to admit that they were much better than the pilots of other European countries with whom we had to fight. During the war, Russian pilots became more skilled air fighters. One day in 1943, I had to fight on Me 109G with one Soviet pilot on the lagg Z. The side of his car was painted red, which meant a pilot from a guards regiment. Our fight lasted about 40 minutes, and I could not beat him. We got on our planes everything we knew and could. All were forced to break up. Yes, it was a true master! ”

And this despite the fact that our pilots did not like LAGG and called it “Flying Aviation Guaranteed Coffin. " I must say that all the parameters of mass aircraft were lower than those of the Germans, and this inequality, contrary to popular belief, persisted until the end of the war, when under the bombing of the Allied aircraft they managed to release about two thousand fighter jets, the speed of which reached 900 kilometers in hour!

So all our talk about the fact that such large personal accounts with the Hitlerite aces were only because they made records on the number of engines - they shot down a four-engined plane, so they considered it for four right away - this is, excuse me, from the evil one. More often, we recorded the aircraft, shot down in the general heap, on the personal account of the most eminent one - you see, it will become a Hero. By the way, to get the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, as far as I know, it was enough to knock down 25 enemy machines of any class.

Let us try to understand why the army of the winners of losses was three times more than the losers. And in aviation, the gap is even more significant ...

It all started as if for us not bad. In the skies of Spain, the pilots of our Air Force volunteers, despite the fact that the famous "donkeys" - fighters AND 16 - were inferior to German planes in speed, gave the Nazis a light as well. The advantages of our pilots in flight skills were not shy to recognize the Germans themselves. Here is just one of the testimonies.


In the center of I.F. Petrov and S.P. Suprun with a parachute. Germany. 1940

In the spring of 1940, B. P. Suprun, a member of the delegation of Soviet specialists, visited Germany - our well-known ace, at that time the Hero of the Soviet Union (he received the second Star posthumously during the battles during World War II). The Germans showed us their fighter Me 109. Our specialists appreciated the car quite restrained. Then the somewhat annoyed designer E. Henkel suggested Suprun to try out the newest fighter Xe 100. Here is what he himself wrote about this in his memoirs:

“As part of the Russian mission was a young pilot, Hero of the Soviet Union, whose airmanship made a big impression. It was a tall, handsome man. Before the first flight on Xe 100, the fastest of all, on which he had ever flown, he had a ten-minute consultation with one of my best test pilots. Then he lifted the car into the air and began to fling it across the sky, carrying out such figures that my pilots were almost numb with surprise. ”


What can I say, if the Luftwaffe commander Hermann Goering, as already mentioned, passed flight universities in our country, under the guidance of Soviet instructors! ..

And suddenly everything changed so drastically with the start of the Great Patriotic War. The first months, the German aces had a distinct advantage in the air. Why did this happen?
The reasons for this, in my opinion, several. First, almost all of the aviation was concentrated on the front-line airfields, where it was destroyed in the first days, and even hours, after the outbreak of hostilities.

However, the famous historian Roy Medvedev believes that such concentration turned out to be a necessary measure due to the fact that our Air Force began to receive new equipment for which the old runways were not suitable. They began to urgently modernize (and at many airfields at once), as a result of which a huge amount of equipment was concentrated on the remaining (mostly civilian) flight platforms ...

Perhaps this is so. Nevertheless, in any case, bungling is evident. You cannot hide anywhere from the fact that by June 1941, the 70 – 80, the percentages of the USSR aircraft were inferior in their flight technical qualities to Germany’s same-type machines. And the few pilots who were still able to take off and engage in battle with superior enemy forces often had to use only “secret Russian weapon- ram.

However, this weapon is of the same grade as the infantryman’s attempt to close the embrasure of the enemy’s bunk with his own breast. Taran, as a rule, led simultaneously to the loss of his own car, despite all the instructions, and even to the death of the pilot. It was not by chance that our pilots resorted to this last resort, for the most part, only at the beginning of the war, when the enemy had overwhelming air superiority. If in the first year of the war 192 was made a ram, then in the last - only 22 ...

Over time, our designers and production workers were able to turn the tide. The front began to receive in ever-larger quantities a new, more advanced technique, and by the end of the war no longer Germanic, but the Soviet Air Force had an overwhelming advantage in the air. However, one should not think that we no longer had anything to learn from German specialists.

Why did the army have three times more casualties than the losers?

Pe-2

Usually, when it comes to this type of aircraft, they immediately recall the famous “pawn” - the Pe 2 Pe plane by designer V.M. Petlyakov. However, let's not forget that the “Petlyakovs” appeared at the front later than the famous “laptezhnikov” - diving bombers of Yu 87.
Moreover, the engineer Joseph Goldfain unearthed this interesting story about this ...
Shortly before the Great Patriotic War, L. P. Beria called the aircraft designer A. N. Tupolev and ordered an urgent “high-altitude, long-range, four-engined, diving bomber” to be made. Here's how Deputy General L. L. Kerber told about this: “Tupolev came back angry, like a thousand devils ... The idea of ​​Beria was clearly untenable. A lot of arguments "against" and no "for". If only the Germans and Americans have single-engine dive bombers, we should surpass them and create the next not even the Tsar Bell, but the Tsar the Dive Biker. ” According to Tupolev, "to make such an aircraft was pure madness."


U-87 dive bombers after returning from a combat mission.

Indeed, during a dive, the machine is experiencing huge overloads, which means that its design must be particularly durable, which is impossible to achieve with a four-engined aircraft. A high-altitude bomber will certainly have to have an airtight cabin for the crew, equipped with a remote control weapon, and this, in the USSR, did not release such control. There were other, no less compelling arguments against the creation of this aircraft, but Beria stubbornly insisted on his own. Tupolev as he could, citing the workload on Tu 2, and then the war broke out ...


Tu 2

Of course, what happened above all could be explained by the technical illiteracy of the NKVD chief, if not for one circumstance - then the Germans worked on the project of such a pikeman!

It turns out that in the summer of 1935, the German aircraft designers were ordered to create a heavy bomber with a range of 2500 kilometers, capable of bombing and diving. In the summer of 1937, the Heinkel firm began work on the XE 177, equipped with the original power plant - four motors, placed in pairs, rotated two propellers.

In November 1939, the plane made the first flight, and then a losing streak went: five prototypes of the new machine crashed, and two crashed during a dive, 17 test pilots died.

In the end, with Xe 177 they removed the aerodynamic brakes and turned them into an ordinary bomber, which has been mass-produced since March 1942. Total "Luftwaffe" received 545 bombers of several modifications (in the literature there are other numbers). The most successful was Xe 177 A5, manufactured since February 1943, as a torpedo bomber and carrier of two air ship class missiles.


Heinkel He 177

Three years earlier, the Heinkel company also offered a variant with four motors installed in the wing singly and with an airtight cabin; however, until the end of the war, only a few experienced Xe 274 and Xe 277 with ordinary cabs managed to do.

We do not have detailed information about the combat use of Xe 177. But the fact that quite a few (according to some sources, up to half) were lost due to accidents, speaks for itself.
Why did Hitler need such a monster? The absence of strategic bombers in the "Luftwaffe" is usually explained by the short-sightedness of the leaders of the Third Reich. However, by the same token, the essence of the matter is obscured, because the German designers worked on such equipment, only to no avail. It is known that diving bombing accuracy is much higher than from horizontal flight. Therefore, the leaders of Nazi Germany could be tempted — by launching a small number of Xe 177 dives, effectively hitting strategic targets in the rear of the enemy.

Since there were no objective reasons to replenish the Soviet Air Force with a similar combat aircraft, it remains to be assumed subjective. Pay attention to a strange coincidence - in 1939, the first sample of Xe 177 flew in, and after a while, Beria instructs Tupolev to create the same one. If we assume that the agency of his department was able to get top-secret information about the German superpicker, the seemingly incomprehensible, stubbornness of Beria becomes quite understandable ...
Author:
18 comments
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  1. Serg
    Serg 13 November 2010 21: 34
    +1
    Dear author, although I do not share the author's opinion in everything, Solonin writes quite interestingly about the reasons for the defeat of 1941 in the book "At Peacefully Sleeping Airfields". So it was indicated there that there was no technical advantage or an air defeat at the forward airfields, and the reason was different!
    1. murriou
      murriou 10 October 2016 12: 13
      +1
      Oh, already Solonin as an authority! What's next? Reason? Solzhenitsyn? Baron Munchausen? laughing
  2. mikle
    mikle 2 January 2011 21: 33
    +6
    NOT a respected author, I ask you not to write rubbish and your own fabrications in the form of pseudoscientific nonsense on this site that I respect. Having pulled quotes from a couple of books and providing your article with an effective headline, you have proved only one thing - there are writers, and there are PISAKI, to whom you with undisguised neglect and relate. There is no need to argue or disprove you - you simply do not have enough intelligence for the analyst to understand and analyze the situation. I can only say one thing - do not care about the victorious soldier (pilot, sailor, etc.) is the worst thing. You just scumbag after that, I'm sorry for the high-flown rhetoric.
  3. matroskin
    matroskin April 5 2011 17: 49
    +2
    Sheer nonsense!
  4. Codavr
    Codavr 25 August 2011 12: 36
    +2
    Another, having played enough of the "IL-2 Sturmovik", decided to express his opinion on the reasons for the losses. Young man, do not confuse play with reality. Not the quality of the aircraft, not the skill of the pilot, not the number of them in the air, and not the assigned tasks give victory, but all this together. A super-duper fancy BF is worthless if it cannot take off from a soggy airfield. When playing with toys, always remember that it does not reflect reality as well as the reporting of German pilots does not reflect reality. Often, in the sectors of the front, the USSR did not have as many planes as they shot down on paper
  5. Gur
    Gur 25 August 2011 12: 56
    +4
    Crap .... at the beginning of the article .. that ours could not fly, in the middle of the Germans' surprise with our ace ... and at the end in general some kind of crap ... not related to the title
  6. Molot1979
    Molot1979 9 October 2016 12: 22
    +3
    Not respected author. Could you please raise your train ... and see the statistics of the losses of German aviation in 1941? Although if you want to live, better not try - the fart will break and you will die from terrible cramps. And where do they crawl over and over again like cockroaches, these home-grown undershots on the subject of the Second World War? Stanislav Slavin, where are you from?
    1. Bloodsucker
      Bloodsucker 9 October 2016 12: 34
      +2
      http://www.e-reading.club/bookbyauthor.php?author
      = 14216
      this one probably.
      1. murriou
        murriou 10 October 2016 12: 15
        +1
        One small thing can be added to his "100 Great Predictions": among understanding people, he will not see anything except kicks and spits. lol
  7. murriou
    murriou 10 October 2016 12: 53
    +3
    There is a lasting impression that the author put the only plus to the article laughing
    And one more thing: that the ban on cons in the new engine form saved the author from a very clear identification of his well-deserved shame.
    1. captain
      captain 26 February 2017 14: 40
      0
      Before the war, the Red Army Air Force had about 20000 aircraft, while the Navy did not count. In the USSR, during the war years, TOTAL 112,1 thousand combat aircraft were issued. "LAND-LEASE in the USSR delivered during the war years TOTAL: 18297 aircraft. More than 150 thousand aircraft. The Germans released about 104 thousand aircraft, including non-combat ones. I will not give data on our allies and allies of Hitler, so as not to make the picture depressing, for our cheers, but I will give you some interesting points NGO Order No. 080 of 03.1941: term of training for flight personnel - 9 months in peacetime and 6 months in the military, flight hours for cadets on training and combat aircraft - 20 hours for fighters and 24 hours for bombers (a Japanese suicide bomber in 1944 should have 30 flight hours), Germans in 1941 had a German fighter pilot leaving the flight school, he had more than 400 hours of total flight time, of which at least 80 hours — on a combat vehicle.After the graduate added another 200 hours to the reserve air group. According to other sources, each Luftwaffe graduate had to fly 450 hours on his own, at the end of the war only 150. Dear cheers, “patriots”, if we do not soberly evaluate the lessons of any war, then each next one will be sudden, treacherous, and the enemy will always have a “huge” advantage. The author does not plead with the dignity of our pilots; he is trying to convey to you that he will not succeed in throwing hats and works on VI, Lenin, opponents. Pay attention to the training and combat path of our aces Pokryshkin and Kozhedub ..
  8. saigon
    saigon 29 October 2016 14: 55
    +2
    About after Goering, yes in the USSR, yes trained, it becomes clear much becomes. No, I understand at RBC and other Ehahs maybe it rolls about, well, here people still understand the topic. Again, an attempt to reduce to a couple of theories a huge topic.
  9. nivander
    nivander 8 December 2016 13: 56
    0
    sluggishly, uninformatively, tensively would stick a dislike to yes, according to the new rules it is impossible
  10. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 22 December 2016 23: 49
    +1
    Quote: GUR
    Crap .... at the beginning of the article .. that ours could not fly, in the middle of the Germans' surprise with our ace ... and at the end in general some kind of crap ... not related to the title
    Comrade GUR (are you by any chance a relative of Ben-Guru?), You apparently do not distinguish a little the bulk of Soviet pilots and elite pilots, of whom there were several dozen. And these are, as it were, two big differences. Barkhorn writes about this.

    Quote: Molot1979
    Not respected author. Could you raise your train ... and see the statistics of the losses of German aviation for the 1941 year?
    Since the author is not present on the site, and the 2010 article of the year, it’s personally interesting for me to see the data that you are talking about. What was the author wrong about?

    Quote: murriou
    One small thing can be added to his "100 Great Predictions": among understanding people, he will not see anything except kicks and spits. lol
    Very interesting and most importantly what an information-rich comment! And let's leave the emotions from the bitterness of losses and try to sort them out, what exactly was the author wrong in this article?
    1. Molot1979
      Molot1979 27 June 2017 16: 47
      0
      Well, let's. And nothing that article 2010. Lies at any time, you can disassemble. So, the losses of the USSR aviation - 47. The losses of the Air Force of the Third Reich - 844. Let the liar-author explain to me with the help of what Martian arithmetic he calculated that ours lost three times as many Germans? Of course, the Fritzs fought not only with us, they also had a second front, and the Battle of Britain, and the struggle against allied raids. But even in this case, they could not bear in all other directions more than 85% of the total losses. So - equality. Moreover, according to the archives, we had an extremely high percentage of non-combat losses due to accidents, for which later the People's Commissar of Aviation was heavily criticized by the NKVD. Well. and how many after deduction of non-combat will Goering's aces remain? So Slavin is lying like a gray gelding. As for the German aces, Slavin is probably not aware of how a group of especially hot-hunks, who flew in Africa, were accidentally exposed in the Luftwaffe. They stupidly shot BC in the sand in the desert, and upon their return reported that they had just flunked the entire British air fleet, including Churchill's flying toilet. Without any film machine guns and confirmations from the ground forces, they drew pluses. When the deception was revealed, the dudes were simply scattered on different squadrons and fronts. About the fact that they cut the bills - nothing is reported. Similarly, in his memoirs, the main blond knight of the entire Reich Hartman was pierced. He, too, somehow chattered (to see senility ate brains ...) that he wrote the victory purely on his reports. Often, according to radio reports, they say that he just shot down three IL-560s, write and prepare champagne. And nothing - they wrote and prepared. Hartman, why should he lie. Well, such a trifle as the absence of even at least some evidence of about half of the declared successes. But the Reich needed heroes, the war didn’t go at all as expected, the spirit of the Aryans that had subsided had to be corrected.
      1. Warrior2015
        Warrior2015 9 July 2018 14: 25
        0
        Quote: Molot1979
        So, the loss of aviation of the USSR - 47 844. Third Reich Air Force casualties - 85 560

        I will ask a simple, simple question. And where then almost 100.000 of produced Soviet saomlets disappeared (according to various sources, during the Great Patriotic War and before it in the USSR, 120-140 thousand combat and training aircraft were produced).

        Quote: Molot1979
        As for the German aces, Slavin is probably not in the know how in the Luftwaffe they accidentally exposed a group of especially hot-asses who flew in Africa.

        Interestingly, is there any other case known to you? I’m now aware of the case when Marcel’s account was verified by one British ace and his support group - and the result - from 158 victories in North Africa, at least 120 victories are officially unambiguously “fighting” according to the British loss statistics, and 20 are quite probable, it’s difficult to clarify, and approximately 18 do not find confirmation.

        Quote: Molot1979
        Similarly, in his memoirs, the main blond knight of the entire Reich Hartman was pierced. He, too, somehow chattered (to see senility ate brains ...) that he wrote the victory purely on his reports.

        Well, do not talk nonsense. He just described cases that doubts about the reliability of his account of victories by pilots from neighboring squadrons were simply taken as followers and became witnesses of his victories in the air. Something like that...
  11. Molot1979
    Molot1979 27 June 2017 16: 33
    0
    The author is simply a liar.
  12. Jarserge
    Jarserge 19 March 2020 09: 22
    0
    Nonsense that can not even be called pseudo-scientific. It seems that the author "pulled" pieces from different materials, somehow put together, without a clear ideological and military concept and fulfilled the publication plan.