Uzbekistan, goodbye or goodbye?

290
If a person does not like something in a company, he either tries to change something within the company itself, or simply leaves it. If we transfer human emotions to the state platform, then we can say that something like this happens with the countries of the world. However, there are those states that have a very original position, the so-called “dissenting opinion” within a certain international community, and they rush with this opinion like a chicken with an egg, not knowing where to find proper application. That is not so, it is not that; give something, I do not know what; and everything like that. A demonstration of this kind of own exclusiveness is being made, on which everyone should either pray or put as a priority their own foreign policy.



It was in this vein that cooperation was conducted (although the term “cooperation” here fits well here) of Uzbekistan with CSTO partners. Uzbekistan had a “special opinion” on any convenient reason and clearly led the partners to the question: what, in fact, Tashkent, headed by Islam Karimov, wants? Of course, the official Tashkent did not intend to answer the question specifically, but, by and large, all the other CSTO member states knew the answer themselves. And the answer, in all likelihood, was as follows: Uzbekistan strangely recalled membership in the Collective Security Treaty Organization only when the roasted rooster pecked the head of this state and the country's main political elites, I am sorry, in soft spots. The rooster does not bite - there are lengthy conversations that the position of some CSTO members for Uzbekistan is unacceptable, this position, it turns out, hurts Tashkent’s geopolitical interests. But as soon as the rooster deigned to aim at those very soft places, as in Uzbekistan, an unexpected desire for brotherhood and unity of peoples in the post-Soviet space was manifested.

The events in Andijan in 2005 can serve as a vivid example of such a policy of Uzbekistan regarding the CSTO. Rallies of Uzbek citizens against the arrests of local businessmen turned into a bloody massacre, during which, according to various sources, people were killed, from 187 to 230 people, hundreds were injured. The special forces encountered groups of well-armed militants, who were often covered by civilians. According to the local society for the protection of human rights, it was among the ordinary inhabitants of Andijan that the most victims were.

There is still no accurate assessment of the events of 7-year-old, but most political analysts agree that a very violent and bloody action could have been provoked by Islamists in order to seize power in Uzbekistan, first at the regional and then at the national level. Karimov understood that after the Rose Revolution in Georgia, the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, and after the riots with the subsequent change of power in Kyrgyzstan, the revolutionary wheel could also roll on it personally. Obviously, the President of Uzbekistan did not want to let go of the reins of government, and therefore was ready for any action, if only the Andijan riots did not spread to other parts of the country, including Tashkent.

After the dissatisfaction in Andijan was broken up, as a result of which numerous victims were recorded, the head of Uzbekistan was counting on international support, and hoped that the West would rejoice in how he, Islam Abduganievich Karimov, dealt with the revolutionary encroachments. However, the West, which itself often went to revolutionary sponsors on the territory of the former Soviet Union, then decided to chide the President of Uzbekistan firmly and even initiated the adoption of a resolution within the UN Security Council condemning official Tashkent for actions on the territory of Andijan. Karimov tried to state that these were the internal affairs of Uzbekistan, but no one was listening to him. As a result, the resolution was adopted by a majority vote. Russia, Belarus, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan (from the CSTO) and other countries voted against the resolution.

Recall that by the time the Andijan events began, thanks to its “special opinion”, Uzbekistan was in the format of temporarily suspended membership in the Collective Security Treaty Organization. However, after the West painfully clicked Uzbekistan and Mr. Karimov personally on the nose, he decided to re-join the CSTO and seemed to forget about his disagreements with other members. And indeed it is: well, how can you not join in, if a revolutionary threat hangs over you, which in a number of post-Soviet republics has thrown off their leaders in almost two accounts. Leonid Kuchma, Eduard Shevardnadze, Askar Akayev suffered. Islam Karimov clearly did not intend to fill this list with his name. And if he was not going to replenish, then it was necessary to find a decent cover from the threat to be in place of the above-mentioned political figures. And this cover Uzbekistan quickly found - the CSTO.
In general, the friendship between Uzbekistan and other CSTO member countries in 2006 has rekindled.

However, after the wave of revolutionary sentiment in the post-Soviet space began to fade, and after the US started talking about withdrawing troops from Afghanistan, Uzbekistan once again began to declare its original vision of participation in CSTO projects. Again, with and without a reason, Tashkent began to express its “special opinion”. And it was expressed either in the refusal to participate in joint exercises, the deceleration of military-technical projects, in the refusal to ratify the agreements. In general, the Andijan stress clearly took place at Islam Abduganiyevich, and instead came the certainty that it is possible to bargain with the CSTO. Well, after Washington announced the possibility of donating large volumes to Tashkent weapons and military equipment in the withdrawal of its contingent from the Afghan territories, Mr. Karimov decided it was time to seize the moment again.

In the summer of this year, Uzbekistan announced another temporary suspension of membership in the CSTO, which was motivated by discrepancies in the positions of its members.

In general, one has to admit that the temporary suspension of membership is a very interesting position, according to which you seem to be a member of the CSTO and have the right to impose your veto on making certain decisions, but at the same time you are smoothly taking bribes. Just what - my hut on the edge, I'm sorry ...

But at the recent meeting of the CSTO in Moscow, the partner countries (Armenia, Russia, Belarus, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan) decided not only to meet the demands of official Tashkent to suspend membership in the Organization, but also to completely stop (suspend) its participation. In other words, the demarche of Uzbekistan has led to the fact that Uzbekistan has remained outside the framework of the CSTO, and already, God forbid, a new “Andijan” emerges, then Mr. Karimov will not be so easy to take and say: “Friends, I urgently return to our friendly company. Take me! ”Now, to return to the CSTO, if, of course, Karimov thinks about it at all today, you will have to step over your ambitions and ratify all those agreements that official Tashkent simply ignored at one time.

The Uzbek publications for the most part positively assess the exit of Uzbekistan (and in fact its withdrawal) beyond the framework of the CSTO. According to a number of journalists and analysts in Uzbekistan, the rules for the use of force by the CSTO security forces are contrary to the interests of the country.

In this regard, the question arises: why, if the interests of the Uzbek side did not meet the interests of the CSTO, the official authorities of this state still did not differ by political will and did not make decisions about leaving the Organization. Apparently, Mr. Karimov still kept the CSTO in reserve: as they say, let it be - for every fireman. And so that there were fewer claims, Tashkent decided to temporarily suspend membership. However, with respect to Uzbekistan, it was decided to make a much more uncompromising decision.

It should be noted that on the eve of the Moscow CSTO summit, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov flew to Tashkent. He met with both his Uzbek counterpart and President Karimov. Obviously, Lavrov was instructed to clarify what awaits Uzbekistan if it continues to send its strange policy towards the CSTO. Apparently, the official authorities of Uzbekistan were expected to review their decisions taken in the summer. But today Tashkent, which feels completely protected from external and internal threats, was clearly not impressed with Lavrov’s explanations. This proved for the last time that Tashkent is ready to use the CSTO far not as a tool for multi-faceted cooperation, but as a means to instantly solve their own sudden problems. And so far there are no such problems - Tashkent is definitely not interested in military cooperation with Russia, Armenia, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan.

But the world is changeable. And the calm that would seem to exist in the post-Soviet space at any moment can be replaced by completely different political weather conditions ...
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  1. Shuhrat turani
    -75
    December 21 2012
    Article minus. Too biased.
    All who disagree with Moscow are all wrong ... imperial ambitions do not give rest ...
    1. +47
      December 21 2012
      Quote: Shuhrat Turani
      imperial ambitions do not give rest ...

      As soon as Russia begins to defend its interests, the leeches that have sucked onto our country and suck money, resources, and generally parasitize and live at the expense of our country, begin to shout about imperial ambitions. They didn’t try to look at themselves!
      1. 416sd
        -34
        December 21 2012
        Comrade, this is not in Russia's interests, the problem exists. But to write about her IN THAT TONE is indecent. It's tabloid. This will turn Voennoye Obozreniye into an Anna Chapman show on REN TV.
        1. +46
          December 21 2012
          Quote: 416sd
          Comrade, it’s not in Russia's interests, the problem is ......
          So far, the former USSR countries, including Uzbekistan, have not done anything good except for problems with migration, borders, crime, flirting with NATO and amers and constantly asking for free resources. BUT CONSTANTLY REQUIRING MYSTERIOUS AND RESPECTIVE APPEALS. NOBODY KICKED YOU FROM THE UNION, IT IS YOUR CHOICE AND THE TIME IS TO BE SOLVED BY YOURSELF NOT BY RUSSIA HOW YOU DO THIS OFTEN.
          1. 416sd
            -8
            December 21 2012
            1. You are mistaken, there are several countries - Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan - which do not beg for money, especially for free, especially from the Russians. Although for you this is just a generalized "chuchmekistan", you judge by people by the criteria of the nearest market.
            2. THIS IS YOUR CHOICE ... No, my friend - IT'S WAAAAAAAAH CHOICE, the Russians themselves, themselves, destroyed the USSR. You recall what republics and how they voted in 1991 on the referendum on the preservation of the USSR?
            1. +25
              December 21 2012
              1. Despite this, at the referendum in March 1991, the majority of the population voted to preserve the USSR. After a failed coup attempt (GKChP on August 19, 1991), on August 31, 1991, following other republics, the Supreme Council proclaimed the independence and sovereignty of the Republic of Uzbekistan, and on November 18, 1991, the Law "On the State Flag of the Republic of Uzbekistan" was adopted.

              2.
              Quote: 416sd
              Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan - which do not beg for money, especially for free, especially from Russians

              Uzbekistan: 64567 arrived (an absolute record for the number of migrant workers who entered the territory of Russia over the indicated period), 22896 declined.
              What are you doing here? Live in your country and rejoice that you climb here and how much more our state will sponsor you and the indigenous people will hear reproaches from you for nationalism and racism!
              And instead of teaching us life here, return everything to our homeland and take into account each other’s lives. Or is it something that prevents you from moving to your historical homeland?
              1. 416sd
                -15
                December 21 2012
                Denisey, I live and rejoice at home.

                Regarding labor migrants - do not forget that there are also many Russians living outside of Russia. By the way.

                Indigenous people? What is this? The indigenous population of Muscovy or Russia? In general, the indigenous population of Russia of Slavic origin hears reproaches of racism and nationalism not only from "us", but also from representatives of the most indigenous population of Russia of non-Slavic origin. Let me remind you that there are more than 90 indigenous peoples in the Russian Federation drinks

                If the number of labor migrants is the cornerstone of geopolitics for you, then Russia should be lying around at the feet of the Turks, only because Russian in Turkish wholesale markets is the same as Azerbaijani in markets in Moscow. But this is not so.
                1. +9
                  December 21 2012
                  Quote: 416sd
                  Russia should be lying around at the feet of the Turks, only because Russian in Turkish wholesale markets is the same as Azerbaijani in Moscow markets

                  do not bend it, the bulk of the able-bodied population of the country lives in Russia, unlike you. In Muscovy, as you call it, there is nowhere to spit, visitors are everywhere, it is disgusting to come to Moscow, although I live 70 km from it. And about the so-called "indigenous" population, they never considered themselves Russian and yell at every corner that they are also Russians when it suits them, and behind their backs there is always a traumatic pistol.
                  1. 416sd
                    +4
                    December 21 2012
                    Denisey, I don’t know how with the Uzbeks, in Azerbaijan, too, the bulk of the able-bodied population lives at home. Those that you have are a wave of the beginning of the 1990s, which have moved and breed today in your place. Those. Now they don’t come from us. Again, for Tajiks, Uzbeks, Moldovans, Armenians I’m sure worse, I need to look at the statistics I don’t remember.

                    Next, the question is how these people behave there, that they are asocial, that they drag the rules of life for their village to Moscow - I completely agree with you. I agree with you even more than you, because some of them are representatives of my people, and I often (and in Moscow I go to work almost every month) am terribly ashamed of what I see in Moscow. This shame is already on the Baku-Moscow plane.

                    But for a normal person, this should not become a criterion for attitudes towards these peoples and countries. Well, imagine if I was born not at 79, but at 99, and if it were not for 200 thousand Russians living in Azerbaijan. Well, I would have got to Antalya, I would have seen how Russians behave there in resorts, I would have learned that the beautiful Russian name "Natasha" in Turkish means "whore" and would have concluded - all Russian drunks and whores ... Is this normal? No.

                    51% of what is being discussed here is primarily the problems of Russia itself. 49% are our problems.

                    There is another point - when you discuss such things inadvertently, you can (and this often happens) offend pro-Russian people in the CIS countries. There are many of them. But they are first Azerbaijanis, Uzbeks, etc., and then pro-Russian. understand what i mean?
                    1. +5
                      December 21 2012
                      I agree with you, but understand that now in Russia 80-90% of migrants who come to Russia as well as those who live in a certain territory of the Russian Federation are a lot of people who received a three-year education and, apart from their aul, have seen little but have great ambitions and a desire to show their cool in Moscow. The tension among the population regarding migrants is growing. 50-60% of crimes in Moscow are committed by migrants! The indigenous population does not even see attempts by the authorities to protect them from this influx of migrants. At the moment, it is simply necessary (this is purely my opinion) to close the border for labor migrants in order to force employers to turn to the people and force them to give the Russians primarily work.
                      And about: "Natasha" b..d she and in Africa b..d and not only such Russians, if it comes to that.
                      1. 416sd
                        +4
                        December 21 2012
                        I understand you. And regarding the crime among migration, and their level of education (they usually represent the province and dishonor their people in the Russian Federation), and regarding their general behavior and appearance, everything else. And the moment is interesting - those tricks that they perform in Moscow at home can cost them dearly. So it turns out that they break off the chain.

                        But there is still important - if someone thinks that by deporting all visitors and at once you will solve all the problems of Russia - this is profanity. Although there would be many benefits in this, by the way, not only for Russia, but for small countries as well, they simply understand it.

                        If at first I answered sharply, I apologize, you are a normal person and you can communicate.

                        All of this is part of the post-imperial syndrome, which Dmitry Trenin wrote about in his book Post-Imperium.
                      2. 0
                        December 21 2012
                        Quote: 416sd
                        All this is part of the post-imperial syndrome, which Dmitry Trenin wrote about.


                        this is not a syndrome, and certainly not as post-imperialist!
                        many would like it, but it is not.
                      3. Nurker
                        +2
                        December 21 2012
                        denisey (1) Today, 12:46 PM ↑
                        3 I agree with you, but understand that now in Russia 80-90% of migrants who come to Russia as well as those who live in a certain territory of the Russian Federation are a lot of people who received a three-year education and, apart from their aul, have seen little but have great ambitions and a desire to show their cool in Moscow. The tension among the population regarding migrants is growing. 50-60% of crimes in Moscow are committed by migrants! The indigenous population does not even see attempts by the authorities to protect them from this influx of migrants. At the moment, it is simply necessary (this is purely my opinion) to close the border for labor migrants in order to force employers to turn to the people and force them to give the Russians primarily work.
                        And about: "Natasha" b..d she and in Africa b..d and not only such Russians, if it comes to that.

                        But ask yourself a simple question: "Is it true, are Central Asia and Russia deeply to blame for pressing problems ???" Try going in a different direction. Are the exchange rates different by chance ???
                        In the Republic of Kazakhstan, 1 ruble is about 5 tenge,
                        1 dollar 150 tenge,
                        1 sum about 0,05 tenge
                        1 som about 3 tenge.
                        I hope this information will direct you in another direction.
                    2. +1
                      December 21 2012
                      I completely agree.
                      But why in the first comments it was necessary to get up with a saber to the mast?
                  2. +2
                    December 21 2012
                    Yes, let's reduce all controversial issues with the former Soviet republics to migrant workers !!
                2. +3
                  December 21 2012
                  Quote: 416sd
                  Denisey, I live and rejoice at home.


                  Glad for you, here and live.


                  Quote: 416sd
                  Regarding labor migrants - do not forget that Russians also live a lot outside Russia


                  How many Russians are earning in Azerbaijan?
                  How many Azerbaijanis do we earn?
                3. 0
                  December 25 2012
                  Quote: 416sd
                  that Russians also live a lot outside of Russia. By the way.

                  If we were bitches like you and treated you like ours, who left us leaving everything in Azerbaijan, you would have been gone in Russia, and you are here as a flea dog and live as equal citizens, and instead of thanks also download the rights.
              2. -8
                December 21 2012
                And who will work for you in return for migrant workers? On migrant workers not weakly welded. If all the migrant workers leave at the moment, the Russian Federation will receive a crisis
                1. +3
                  December 21 2012
                  Quote: bazilio
                  And who will work for you in return for migrant workers?

                  Those who are currently unemployed.
                2. +5
                  December 21 2012
                  Quote: bazilio
                  And who will work for you in return for migrant workers?

                  Quote: bazilio
                  If all the migrant workers leave at the moment, the Russian Federation will receive a crisis

                  There is someone who is working, but if all of them, migrant workers return back to their home, then for their homeland there will definitely be a crisis, money that will cease to come from Russia at once, a good blow to their budget.
                  1. Beck
                    +2
                    December 23 2012
                    Quote: antiaircrafter
                    Those who are currently unemployed

                    Quote: olegyurjewitch
                    There are people who work,


                    As far as I understand, migrant workers in Moscow, St. Petersburg, other cities, in the countryside have always been. Only they were called differently. In cities it is LIMITA, in the countryside SHABASHNIKI. And in Soviet times, Muscovites and Petersburgers did not want to work in prestigious, difficult, dirty jobs. Therefore, limiters were attracted to sukovale factories, to tanneries, to janitors from all over Russia. And they lived in dormitory dormitories, and paid them a miser. Yes, even for a year, two made out by students. As if stamping felt in vats needed some kind of specialization. And this was done because these workers were paid as students, a third of the tariff. Shabashniks in the countryside built houses.

                    It was this niche of limits and shabashnikov that was occupied by guest workers, with the appropriate salary. But Muscovites and Petersburgers will never forsake trampling felt in hot water tanks, but will only replenish the percentage of unemployed.

                    Therefore, I think we don’t have to poke a finger, but we must introduce everything into civilized, legal forms.
              3. Nurker
                -2
                December 21 2012
                denisey (1) Today, 11:29 PM ↑
                13 1. Despite this, at the referendum in March 1991, the majority of the population voted to preserve the USSR. After a failed coup attempt (GKChP on August 19, 1991), on August 31, 1991, following other republics, the Supreme Council proclaimed the independence and sovereignty of the Republic of Uzbekistan, and on November 18, 1991, the Law "On the State Flag of the Republic of Uzbekistan" was adopted.

                2.
                Quote: 416sd
                Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan - which do not beg for money, especially for free, especially from Russians

                Uzbekistan: 64567 arrived (an absolute record for the number of migrant workers who entered the territory of Russia over the indicated period), 22896 declined.
                What are you doing here? Live in your country and rejoice that you climb here and how much more our state will sponsor you and the indigenous people will hear reproaches from you for nationalism and racism!
                And instead of teaching us life here, return everything to our homeland and take into account each other’s lives. Or is it something that prevents you from moving to your historical homeland?

                Comrade Are you ready to work on construction sites for very little money and bend your back?
                1. 0
                  December 23 2012
                  [quote = nurker] Comrade. Are you ready to work on construction sites for very little money and bend your back? [Quote = nurker]
                  I am ready if they give me power on the same day to close the border for you. And I’m not shy about it. The interests of my homeland are beyond liberal talk.
                2. 0
                  December 25 2012
                  Quote: nurker
                  . Are you ready to work on construction sites for very little money and bend your back?

                  On July 18, my sister had a fire in a house in the village, (the computer pulled), in order to quickly make repairs I tried to hire Uzbeks (4 people), it was necessary to peel the plaster in the house of 90sq.m and close it with drywall. The Uzbeks said that work for two months, each 30 thousand a month, accommodation and meals at the expense of the owner. I quietly went nuts, talked with a neighbor, he was a construction superintendent, a day later a team of our Kuban guys of 5 people arrived in the village in 16 days and And 190 thousand rubles were peeled off, covered with drywall, the walls paneled the laminate, and blocked part of the roof, and also changed the plumbing in the kitchen in the bathroom and toilet and painted the batteries, changed the doors and windows. Here you have the difference that you want something and think.
            2. +11
              December 21 2012
              You can sit with your ambitions at home, you have nothing to do in Russia, work for yourself, live and prosper ..
              From your countries, such as Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and other rumors (except for Ukraine, Belarus, Armenia), one headache, some immigrants ... You always drank Russian blood, you’re no good!
              1. 416sd
                -2
                December 21 2012
                Give examples after 1813 when the Azerbaijani people drank Russian blood.
                1. sasanic
                  +4
                  December 21 2012
                  Do you know about the Baku commissars? There, the Turks with Azerbaijanis wanted to cut out all Christians .... but did not have time
                  1. 416sd
                    +2
                    December 21 2012
                    Baku commissars? First, let's see how many "Russians" were there:

                    Avakyan, Baghdasar Ayrapetovich - commandant of the city of Baku (according to other sources, Avekyan),

                    Azizbekov, Mashadi Azim-bek-oglu - Baku provincial commissar.

                    Amiryan, Tatevos Minasovich - member of the Dashnaktsutyun party, commander of the cavalry detachment.

                    Amiryan, Arsen Minasovich - editor of the newspaper “Baku Worker”

                    Basin, Meer Velkovich - member of the Military Revolutionary Committee of the Caucasus Army.

                    Berg, Eigen Avgustovich - sailor, communications chief of the Soviet troops in Baku.

                    Bogdanov, Anatoly Abramovich - an employee.

                    Bogdanov, Solomon Abramovich - member of the Military Revolutionary Committee

                    Boryan, Armenak Artyomovich - journalist.

                    Vezirov, Mir-Hasan Kyazim oglu - People's Commissar of Agriculture.

                    Gabyshev, Ivan Yakovlevich - Commissioner of the brigade

                    Japaridze, Prokofy Aprasionovich - Chairman of the Baku Council of Workers, Peasants, Soldiers and Sailor Deputies.

                    Zevin, Yakov Davidovich - People's Commissar of Labor.

                    Koganov, Mark Romanovich - member of the Military Revolutionary Committee.

                    Korganov, Grigory Nikolaevich - People’s Commissar for Naval Affairs.

                    Kostandyan, Aram Martirosovich - Deputy People's Commissar of Food.

                    Malygin, Ivan Vasilievich - Deputy Chairman of the Military Revolutionary Committee of the Caucasus Army, member of the board of the People’s Commissariat for Naval Affairs.

                    Metaxa, Irakliy Panaitovich - Shaumyan’s personal guard.

                    Mishneh, Isai Abramovich - clerk of the Military Revolutionary Committee.

                    Nikolayshvili, Ivan Mikhailovich - personal guard of Japaridze.

                    Osepyan, Suren Grigorievich - editor of the Izvestia of the Baku Council

                    Petrov, Grigory Konstantinovich - military commissar of the Baku region, commander of the Red Guard detachment.

                    Polukhin, Vladimir Fedorovich - member of the collegium of the Commissariat for Naval Affairs of the RSFSR.

                    Solntsev, Fedor Fedorovich - military worker, commissar of the military instructor school.

                    Violetov, Ivan Timofeevich - Chairman of the Council of National Economy.

                    Shaumyan, Stepan Georgievich - extraordinary commissar of the Caucasus, chairman of the Baku Council of People's Commissars.


                    I think there are really Russian people 5 - 6. Will you argue? Or maybe you can tell you that three years ago they excavated there and Shaumyan’s remains were not found, and DNA analysis of the remains was carried out?

                    Secondly - "The Turks and Azerbaijanis wanted to slaughter all Christians there .... but they didn't have time." - after such "issuance" there is nothing to discuss with you. After September 1918, Baku became the capital of a state independent until April 1920 - if they wanted to cut it, they would cut it out then.
                    1. Yarbay
                      +1
                      December 21 2012
                      Quote: 416sd
                      Or maybe you can tell you that three years ago they excavated there and Shaumyan’s remains were not found, and DNA analysis of the remains was carried out?

                      Not only Shaumyan, who according to some sources lived happily in India, was not there, where he was buried, but the Amiryan brothers were not there, that is, the coffins with their names were empty !!!
              2. +1
                December 21 2012
                From your countries, like Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and other rumors - This is not a rumor, people like you live there. And you are no better than them, and they are no worse than you.
            3. 0
              December 21 2012
              Remind please! The RSFSR did not vote for the exit for sure!
              1. 416sd
                +4
                December 21 2012
                The citizens of the Soviet Union were asked the question: "Do you consider it necessary to preserve the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics, in which the rights and freedoms of a person of any nationality will be fully guaranteed?"

                A referendum on this issue was held in the RSFSR, the Ukrainian SSR, the Belorussian SSR, the Uzbek SSR, the Azerbaijan SSR, the Kirghiz SSR, the Tajik SSR, the Turkmen SSR, in the republics that are part of the RSFSR, the Uzbek SSR and the Azerbaijan SSR, in the Abkhaz ASSR, which is part of Georgian SSR, as well as in the districts and in the areas formed by Soviet institutions and in military units abroad.

                In the Kazakh SSR, voting at the referendum of the USSR was held on the issue formulated by the Supreme Soviet of the republic: "Do you consider it necessary to preserve the USSR as a Union of equal sovereign states." At the same time, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Kazakh SSR officially requested to include the voting results in the overall results of the USSR referendum.

                In six union republics (Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Georgia, Moldova, Armenia), which previously declared independence or the transition to independence, an all-Union referendum was not actually held. The authorities of these republics did not form the Central Election Referendum Commissions, but some of the citizens living on the territory of these republics were still able to vote. A number of local Soviets of People's Deputies, labor collectives and public associations at enterprises, institutions and organizations, as well as the command of military units, guided by paragraphs 3 and 5 of the resolution of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR "On the implementation of the resolution of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR on the organization and measures to ensure the holding of a referendum USSR on March 17, 1991 ", independently formed districts and precincts, district and precinct commissions, registered by the USSR Central Referendum Commission. A referendum was also held in Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria and Gagauzia.

                In the Ukrainian SSR 70,2 percent answered "Yes"; in the Byelorussian SSR - 82,7%; in the Uzbek SSR - 93,7%; in the Kazakh SSR - 94,1%; in the Azerbaijan SSR - 93,3%; in the Kirghiz SSR - 94,6%; in the Tajik SSR - 96,2%; in the Turkmen SSR - 97,9%.

                However, in the future, the will of citizens was ignored by a number of political figures and the Union ceased to exist as a result of the Belovezhskaya agreements signed on December 8, 1991. These agreements were signed not by Islam Karimov, not by Heydar Aliyev, they were signed by Russian President Boris Yeltsin + Kravchuk and Shushkevich.

                Mikhail Gorbachev’s attempts to save the USSR were dealt a serious blow with the election of Boris Yeltsin on May 29, 1990 as Chairman of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR. This election was held in a bitter struggle, on the third attempt and by three votes over the candidate from the conservative part of the Supreme Council Ivan Polozkov. Russia also entered the USSR as one of the union republics, representing the vast majority of the population of the USSR, its territory, economic and military potential. The central organs of the RSFSR were also located in Moscow, as were the all-union ones, but they were traditionally perceived as secondary in comparison with the USSR authorities. With the election of Boris Yeltsin as the head of these authorities, the RSFSR set about declaring sovereignty within the USSR, and recognizing the sovereignty of the remaining union and autonomous republics. On June 12, 1990, the Congress of People's Deputies of the RSFSR adopted the Declaration on State Sovereignty, establishing the priority of Russian laws over Union ones. From that moment on, Union-wide authorities began to lose control of the country; The "parade of sovereignty" intensified.
                1. +2
                  December 21 2012
                  If Gorbachev so zealously tried to keep the Union, why did he leave for London? And was the play about the confrontation with Yeltsin not played? They say it right - all our opponents gather there. In any case, the truth is unlikely to be told to us ....
            4. +9
              December 21 2012
              Quote: 416sd
              who don’t beg for money, especially for free, especially from Russians

              By the way, "my friend" remind who paid the debts of the USSR, maybe: "Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan"?
              1. 416sd
                -6
                December 21 2012
                Debts of the USSR? wink The one who declared himself the assignee of the USSR, i.e. RF
              2. -4
                December 21 2012
                And who got these debts? Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan?
                Moscow has made debts, and answer them all in equal measure? fair ....
                1. +4
                  December 21 2012
                  Probably Aliyev, Shevardnadze, Niyazov, Rashidov, Kunaev, etc. were not in the Politburo. Or, probably, they did not take part in solving financial issues. Only Grishin (Moscow) decided everything. Yes?
                  1. -1
                    December 22 2012
                    and who really asked them? try to speak against the opinion of the Central Committee, so immediately "are you going against the party line, comrade?" and then they will be accused of anti-Soviet views, that's all. So who made the decisions, really, eh?
              3. Beck
                -3
                December 22 2012
                Quote: denisey
                By the way, "my friend" remind who paid the debts of the USSR, maybe: "Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan"?


                At that time, Russia said that Russia takes upon itself all the external debts of the USSR, and in return the rest of the republics abandon their share of USSR real estate abroad.

                The buildings of embassies, consulates, companies created by the Central Committee of the CPSU and more.

                On that and agreed.
            5. sasanic
              +3
              December 21 2012
              In some ways, I agree with you, but it was not by chance that Azerbaijanis now expelled the Russian base from its territory ???
              In 1991. most of the countries were bought, and the people were on the ether from freedom !!!!
              1. Starksa
                +3
                December 21 2012
                not great loss
              2. 416sd
                -2
                December 21 2012
                The issue of the base is rather painful; there are different opinions on this matter in Azerbaijan itself. Yes, and you yourself did not particularly need it, judging by the passivity in negotiations on the Russian side. And "drove out" here is not quite the correct term. in general, our relations with the Russian Federation are not only composed of Gabala. On it alone the world did not converge like a wedge.
                1. 0
                  December 27 2012
                  These things add up to you, whom do you let loose on Gabala? And in this way you turn yourself from a people close to us into a GOAL, and not because we hate you, but just as calmly ... fellow
            6. +1
              December 21 2012
              416sd

              Quote: 416sd
              Although for you this is just a generalized "chuchmekistan", you judge by people by the criteria of the nearest market.


              it is you all judging in a crowd.

              Quote: 416sd
              No, my friend - THIS WAAAAAAAAH CHOICE, the Russians themselves, themselves, destroyed the USSR.


              But what did you do to save the country if you did not want its collapse? What has your country done?
              1. 416sd
                +5
                December 21 2012
                See above - I wrote above. My country voted against the collapse of the USSR in a referendum in 1991 .... What else should she do?

                As for me personally, I naturally can’t do anything to restore the USSR. But I can save the memory. Gathered a circle of like-minded people obsessed with the Great Patriotic War. I keep my blog yoldash.net

                What else to say? I have no children yet. but when they appear, I will try to get involved first of all, in addition to my own. to Russian culture.
                1. +2
                  December 21 2012
                  416sd

                  then let me shake your hand virtually good
            7. andrklimanov
              -1
              December 22 2012
              Quote: 416sd
              You are mistaken, there are several countries Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan - which do not beg for money

              in particular, Uzbekistan, they do not beg for money because almost all of them themselves moved to Russia laughing they themselves take, do not ask
            8. terp 50
              0
              December 23 2012
              ... it’s a pity, Boriska, they weren’t shot at the exit from the plane, (according to the constitution, it was necessary) -like a traitor!
            9. -1
              December 25 2012
              Quote: 416sd
              Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan - which do not beg for money, especially for free, especially from Russians.

              Russia needs to expel the fuck from its city markets Azerbaijanis, Turkmen, Uzbeks, stop any business of representatives of these nationalities in Russia, allow entry only on tour visas for no more than twenty-five days, and for violation introduce a life-long refusal to enter Russia and everything will be fine, both you and us feel good, yours, as you say, "chuchmekistan", will spit at home and spit at home, and we will finally try to do without your services and will not see your dear faces.
              1. Beck
                +1
                December 26 2012
                Quote: cherkas.oe
                Russia needs to kick the fuck out of its city markets of Azerbaijanis, Turkmen, Uzbeks,


                I remember that Putin, in his early presidency, in some city, forbade Azerbaijanis from trading in the city bazaar. They say Russian villagers themselves will bring their products to the bazaar and trade themselves. So what? But nothing. In the literal sense, nothing. The bazaar ceased to function, only grandmas sold seeds. After 1,5 weeks, the ban was lifted and the bazaar began to function. Putin then did not go to such experiments.
                1. -1
                  December 26 2012
                  Quote: Beck
                  Putin then did not go to such experiments.

                  This means that not only from the market, but from the city and country, it is necessary to expel with the whole gang and those who protect them, and everything will work out.
          2. -2
            December 21 2012
            And who on a frantic scale consumed CA resources? since the middle of the 19th century? Who established their rules on the territory of the CA and imposed their power?
            1. +2
              December 21 2012
              bazilio

              Quote: bazilio
              And who on a frantic scale consumed CA resources? since the middle of the 19 century?


              how many cities, roads, hospitals, schools, etc. were built during the Russian occupation of Central Asia? how many people were educated and cured?


              Quote: bazilio
              Who established their rules on the territory of the CA and imposed their power?


              Do you remember exactly what began the expansion of Russia to the south?
              1. +1
                December 22 2012
                "how many cities, roads, hospitals, schools, etc. were built during the Russian occupation of Central Asia? how many people were educated and cured"- I agree, but this barter was not voluntary, though useful.
                "Do you remember how exactly the expansion of Russia to the south began"
                No, let's better recall the dispersal of Basmachism and the national-territorial demarcation. they built a map as it was convenient for the center and all those who are not satisfied are the basmach, the counter-revolutionary, to the wall.
                1. 0
                  December 23 2012
                  Quote: bazilio
                  No, let's better recall the dispersal of Basmachism and the national-territorial demarcation.


                  I insist


                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  Do you remember exactly what began the expansion of Russia to the south?
        2. +3
          December 21 2012
          What exactly is “obscene?” They even call by name and patronymic. Is it "obscene" not even to name Karimov's behavior in the community, but only to hint at it? I, for example, did not notice any insults or insults. They simply and clearly said - you are not comfortable in our company - walk alone. If you want back - then we will think about it. Everything is in the usual traditions of "divorce". And here you only need to be offended. Or "proudly" to be silent.
          I personally relate very much to the Uzbeks. Familiar with them in the army. But here is what Karimov is looking for between the USA and Russia I can’t understand in any way. Somehow it’s not wise. Not in the east.
        3. terp 50
          0
          December 23 2012
          ... isn’t that Chapman who was tied up in the States (surrendered)?
      2. +4
        December 21 2012
        Minsk asked Russia for inexpensive loans totaling $ 2 billion for modernization of enterprises. According to RIA Novosti, citing President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko, he has not yet been denied the money.

        - If we are siblings, we need to help. We need a couple of billion dollars of inexpensive money, these are commercial loans for the modernization of enterprises, ”Lukashenko said at a meeting with students of the Belarusian State University of Informatics and Radio Electronics. According to him, he conducted "difficult negotiations" on December 18-19 in the Russian government and with President Vladimir Putin.
      3. +1
        December 21 2012
        Let's in fact, how did Uzbekistan stick to the Russian Federation?
        1. +7
          December 21 2012
          Quote: bazilio
          Let's in fact how Uzbekistan stuck to the Russian Federation

          Azerbaijan: 16811 profits, 3072 losses.
          Armenia: 26949 profits, 3368 losses.
          Belarus: 12718 profits, 4057 losses.
          Kazakhstan: 32532 profits, 6630 losses.
          Kyrgyzstan: 27038 profits, 7868 losses.
          Moldova: 16494 profits, 3430 losses.
          Tajikistan: 30884 profits, 7963 losses.
          Turkmenistan: 3344 profits, 893 losses.
          Uzbekistan: 64567 arrived (an absolute record for the number of migrant workers who entered the territory of Russia over the indicated period), 22896 declined.
          Ukraine: 35776 profits, 9374 losses.
          Georgia: 5682 arrived, 524 departed (a record low departure from Russia as a percentage of the number of arrivals).
          China: 6321 profits, 2909 losses.
          Germany: 3383 profits, 2888 losses.
          Estonia: 1120 profits, 423 losses.
          Latvia: 1056 profits, 291 losses.
          Lithuania: 576 profits, 172 losses.
          Greece: 613 profits, 109 losses.
          And understand once and for all, we do not treat you badly, but you are "dumping" wages in Russia + a large number of crimes among migrants cause persistent rejection of migrants. As a native resident, I need to first hire a citizen of the Russian Federation, to the kindergarten and school of our children. Because I am a citizen of my country (I pay taxes that you do not pay) and I live here, unlike you.
          1. +1
            December 21 2012
            Because I am a citizen of my country (I pay taxes that you do not pay) and I live here, unlike you. - And what prevents legislatively making the guest workers pay taxes? Well do it! And legislatively fix the salary for migrant workers by profession, below which the employer does not have the right to reduce. And that’s mine!
            1. +1
              December 21 2012
              Quote: UzRus
              And what prevents legislatively from making guest workers pay taxes

              And what prevents you from living in your own country to pay taxes there and forget about these discussions?
              And I also see the crowds of migrants who stand at the tax office trying to give 13% of their earnings to Uncle Vova.
              And do not bring nonsense, none of the migrants will pay taxes (except for the payment of a monthly fee for a work permit in the amount of 1000 rubles) delusional order of the government giving migrants the right to pay a thousand re instead of 13%.
              1. +3
                December 21 2012
                I live in my own country and pay taxes here. Migrants do not pay, because your state allows them to do this. You haven’t done anything yet in the legislation, but you’ve already screamed - no one will do anything, no one will pay anything. I will not discuss the decisions of the Government of the Russian Federation, this is the prerogative of the Russians. And what does Uncle Vova have to do with it? I see, you also respect your president, as we respect yours.
                1. +1
                  December 21 2012
                  Dear UzRus, I already wrote that: And understand once and for all, we do not treat you badly, but you are "dumping" wages in Russia + a large number of crimes among migrants cause persistent rejection of migrants. As a native resident, I need to first hire a citizen of the Russian Federation, to the kindergarten and school of our children. Because I am a citizen of my country (I pay taxes that you do not pay) and I live here, unlike you.

                  Understand that now 80-90% of migrants who come to Russia and also live in some territory of the Russian Federation to Russia, this is a mass of people who received a three-year education and besides their "aul," they saw little, but they have big ambitions and a desire to show their cool in Moscow. Tension among the population about migrants is growing. 50-60% of crimes in Moscow are committed by migrants! The indigenous population does not even see the authorities' attempts to protect them from this influx of migrants. At the moment, it is simply necessary (this is purely my opinion) to close the border for labor migrants in order to to force employers to turn their faces to the people and to force them to give first of all work to Russians.
                  We need to protect our population at the moment and relieve tension, but radical measures are not sadly needed for this.
                  1. +1
                    December 22 2012
                    No less respected denisey, but am I against the fact that Russians are employed in the first place ??? Where is it written that I am against ??? Yes, it's finally YOUR country !!! And I say again that migrants are not to blame for the fact that you have so many of them. It must ultimately be STATE regulation. Here you write: The indigenous population does not even see attempts by the authorities to protect them from this influx of migrants.. IT migrants are to blame ??? It is your SALES CORRUPT OFFICIALS that are to blame from the government, the Federal Migration Service, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, who are probably collecting tribute from these unfortunate people.
              2. +3
                December 22 2012
                You apparently do not know, when obtaining a work permit, a FOREIGN CITIZEN COMMITS TO PAY TAX 30%. Unlike you, 13%. Everyone pays such a tax - Uzbeks, Belarusians, etc. It's another matter if it works unofficially. But for the employer it is dangerous - illegal immigrants slam - a fine of up to 600000 r per illegal immigrant. And if there are 100 of them? Therefore, in organizations that do not have a roof in the Federal Migration Service (I think so, following the example of my office) ALL foreigners are obliged to officially get a job, because they don’t want to give money. In general, this topic is tired. Winning, not driving out .... Actually, priority is given to employment they give it to the Russians, it’s another matter that someone doesn’t agree with wages. But we have a free country - we don’t like it here — settle in another place ... don’t know how to learn something. The problem is not in migrants as competitors, the problem is disgusting attitude to work among the Russians. And the same Uzbeks work hard from morning to night ... and in such jobs where God forbid you to work. So why should the employer pay more and get less at the end?
                1. +1
                  December 22 2012
                  ytsuken, you are absolutely right!
            2. 0
              December 21 2012
              UzRus

              unfortunately this is not a discussion crying you will begin to throw caps with hats.
              1. +2
                December 22 2012
                Hats are not stones. wassat
          2. Nurker
            +3
            December 21 2012
            You are an ardent patriot. You just understand one thing that the workers are to blame for your troubles far to Central Asia and the Caucasus, and your own elite, which wants to tear off more money in a short time, invites cheap labor. and in Central Asia, the elite is to blame for allowing the mafia to plunder state farms and collective farms, as a result of which they have a problem with work.

            And what was done before in the Union countries, quality products are now replaced by malicious China. and none of the elite of the CIS want to restore state farms and collective farms, they cost money, but they feel sorry for the money, so get poisoned by China (their opinion)
          3. 0
            December 21 2012
            Foreign workers pay 30% of income tax and 24% to the Social Insurance Fund.
          4. +2
            December 22 2012
            so you understand once and for all - demand creates supply. migrant workers would not go to the Russian Federation if they had nothing to do, and since there is demand, they go. you need to solve the problem with demand and not with supply. expel the Uzbeks, the Muldovans, Chinese or other immigrants will come. The Russian Federation needs to solve the problems with demand, but here it just messes up and it happens - it is painfully profitable to hire a guest worker, cheaper, or even completely free. and those of migrant workers who were thrown and have no means of living robbery.
            1. Siberian
              -1
              December 22 2012
              It is useless to explain anything now. It is necessary to denounce the agreement (all) with Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan - completely close the border in the south and take out Mr. ostarbeiter! And there, beyond the border fortifications, be what will happen !!!
        2. 0
          December 22 2012
          Quote: bazilio
          Let's in fact, how did Uzbekistan stick to the Russian Federation?


          come on, take it and join it! You just forgot to ask.
          1. +2
            December 22 2012
            comprehensive adequate answer, about migrant workers do not forget to mention.
            1. 0
              December 23 2012
              bazilio

              You recall how Tashkent became a Russian city?
      4. -1
        December 26 2012
        And is it worth them to look at themselves? They will not see logs in their yard, but they will notice a speck in another.
    2. +14
      December 21 2012
      You can look from the other side ... Everyone who disagrees with Moscow is always right. It seems the NATO bloc is also sleeping badly from imperial ambitions ...
    3. +4
      December 21 2012
      ahhh it's you again - "Russian citizen".
      I wrote correctly then
      -----------------------------------------------------------------
      Shuhrat Turani (1) December 18, 2012 08:45
      .... // We must completely close the borders in the south. Forever! Otherwise, do not see the happiness of the Russian people. (as part of this people I write this)

      afire (4) December 18, 2012 09:18 ↑
      .... // sorry, is that your name? - Shuhrat Turani
      Are you really a real Russian citizen?
      ---------------------------------------------------------------
      and you bastard talking about ambition ???
      and you say that a citizen of Russia ??
      with ... ka shameful you understand!
      1. elenasvetlova
        +5
        December 21 2012
        +1 for accurate definition
      2. Shuhrat turani
        -5
        December 21 2012
        look at yourself first ...
        Firstly, the withdrawal of Uzbekistan from the Collective Security Treaty Organization is the first step in the deintegration of Uzbekistan and Russia, then you can denounce other treaties and close the border for citizens of the Republic of Uzbekistan. This does not contradict the statement:
        Quote: afire
        Shuhrat Turani (1) December 18, 2012 08:45
        .... // We must completely close the borders in the south. Forever! Otherwise, do not see the happiness of the Russian people. (as part of this people I write this)

        Where is the contradiction here? The Russian Federation can close its borders in the South only after moving away from there ...
        Is the logic clear?
        1. +2
          December 21 2012
          Are you, apparently, a Turk or from Turkey? Then your passages are clear - Age-old resentment ... I do not blame.
    4. +7
      December 21 2012
      And who is Uzbekistan on the world stage, what would be considered in the world, only honestly ??? It has been customary since antiquity that the small and weak always hides behind the big and strong. And by the way, where did you get the idea that "imperial ambitions do not give rest ...", we have no ambitions or friends (except for the navy and army), we have interests. bully
      1. +2
        December 21 2012
        Quote: ZABVO
        And who is Uzbekistan on the world stage, what would the world reckon with it, only honestly ???

        What are you! The Americans promised them to give them weapons! How not to be considered! fellow
        1. 0
          December 22 2012
          Oh yes. Somehow I completely forgot. Now Uzbekistan has a new, over-modern army, with some new weapons they don’t need any kind of collective defense. recourse :)))
    5. +1
      December 21 2012
      Shuhrat Turani
      But Baba Yaga is against it! Yes, have your opinion, but the orders are executed first and only then, you can talk!
    6. +2
      December 21 2012
      Quote: Shuhrat Turani
      Article minus. Too biased.
      All who disagree with Moscow are all wrong ... imperial ambitions do not give rest ...

      I was very upset at your minus, when I saw him I immediately curled up and quietly cried 4 hours under a blanket from resentment for such a fair assessment.
    7. 0
      December 21 2012
      Shuhrat turani
      and who will you forgive? And why are Russia's interests secondary to you?
    8. +3
      December 21 2012
      What? It happens differently? Who does not agree with the USA - are they welcomed and supported in every possible way? Or do you yourself always support someone who does not agree with you, or, declaring friendship with you, in practice is completely removed from you? Everything is logical. Withdrew from the CSTO without pathos and screams. Live as you wish. I don’t see anything biased. IMHO.
    9. bart74
      +1
      December 22 2012
      Because we are an empire. We are an empire of fraternal peoples.
      1. Siberian
        -1
        December 22 2012
        empires of fraternal peoples do not exist. Either an empire led by the most powerful faction, or a federation (confederation) of fraternal peoples ... An attempt to combine these concepts gives rise to a systemic chimera (antisystem)
  2. +13
    December 21 2012
    Well this is to be expected! The correct decision of the CSTO leadership!
  3. +25
    December 21 2012
    Uzbekistan is a typical political prostitute ...... he also wants to eat a fish and sit on ... th. Its leaders need loans and investments, it doesn’t matter from whom they wag back and forth.

    And by the way, there are a lot of problems from them ...... The same drug trafficking, cooperation with a potential enemy, outright extortion, emigration, and so on .. It's time to plant "your doll" there !!!!
    1. +9
      December 21 2012
      I agree with you, "+"! Karimov turns his backside even worse than prostitutes. And he constantly tries to unobtrusively blackmail the rest (especially Russia) with the consequences of his "non-participation." It's not even politics anymore. It's a shame! He considered himself the smartest and most cunning, but here he did not guess a little. Now he will blackmail everyone with his body movements towards our opponents, monster ...
      1. +10
        December 21 2012
        You know, I was always amused by the saying that "the East is a delicate matter," in fact, in the east, everything is just like a perpendicular and the phrase "you can't live ..." reflects the local situation much more accurately. The only difficulty for an outsider is to find out who is brother, matchmaker, godfather, and who is blood and enemy, then everything is simple.
    2. 416sd
      -14
      December 21 2012
      Would you deal with your dolls yet ...
      1. +2
        December 21 2012
        For example, who is it in our dolls? lol
    3. mda
      mda
      0
      December 21 2012
      Quote: JonnyT
      Uzbekistan is a typical political prostitute ...... he also wants to eat a fish and sit on ... th. Its leaders need loans and investments, it doesn’t matter from whom they wag back and forth.

      And by the way, there are a lot of problems from them ...... The same drug trafficking, cooperation with a potential enemy, outright extortion, emigration, and so on .. It's time to plant "your doll" there !!!!

      You’re right! It’s interesting, and when Karimov’s cock pecks not in a soft place, but in eggs :?
      1. Misantrop
        +2
        December 21 2012
        Never. To peck at them, you must at least have them laughing
        1. not good
          0
          December 21 2012
          You just need to find a more accommodating instead of Kirimov feel
    4. +1
      December 24 2012
      Small amendment: Not Uzbekistan, but the president of Uzbekistan. And I would also like to add that among politicians there are a lot of prostitutes, not only in Uzbekistan, Russia, but throughout the world ....
  4. +15
    December 21 2012
    Karimov signed himself a verdict by and large. The people are very unhappy with him, especially with his daughter's "business". So wait and see.
    But the traitors there and the road!
  5. +19
    December 21 2012
    A woman with a cart is easier. And close the borders. After a year, herds of migrant workers, that is, residents of the republic of Uzbekistan, will themselves unscrew their ears.
    1. not good
      +2
      December 21 2012
      It seems that everything is coming to the point that soon the borders of the Russian Federation will really be slightly closed and if Uzbekistan is taken as a testing ground, then the power there can quickly change.
  6. +9
    December 21 2012
    Karimov is a beetle! At first I wanted to sit alone on two chairs. He blackmailed Russia, flirted with PeDostAN, and then realized that it was stressful and decided to take the path of least resistance, that is, lie under impudent sex! It would be better to take an example from Old Man Lukashenko though, Karimov is not a dad, but the Uzbeks are not sooooo Belarusians! In general, the Uzbeks are fortunate that their main border does not lie next to such a chic neighbor as Democratic Afghanistan, so the cunning Uzbeks are not as accommodating as their brothers Turkmen or Tajiks who have already taken full sweep from Afghanistan and, as I understand it, will slurp and slurp until the bearded men on their territory begin to spread their democracy on the religious principle with the side effects of democracy, such as genocide and massacre.
    1. +9
      December 21 2012
      My dear fu! How rough! Not "one zho * oh on two chairs to sit" and pursued a policy of multi-vector! smile In general, the Uzbeks can’t get anywhere from us, they don’t have any alternative, either we or China, but you won’t be fooled by the Chinese. It's just that Krimov is afraid of losing the ulus, now he is the president, the figure is ep! Plus, relatives are dripping on the brains, and even the Yankees .. the life of the president of independent Uzbekistan is not easy, but the main thing is Uzbek
      1. +1
        December 21 2012
        Orty Here you have the flag of Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan also borders on China, and that the multi-vector nature of Kazakhstan so openly speaks of neglect of Russia? Of course, they won’t get anywhere from us, only the Russians, as always, then they will protect their asses with their lives. Practice has shown that multi-vector experiments in Central Asia have never brought to good! Especially if these experiments were actively under the patronage of great democratic well-wishers!
        P.S. And there is always an alternative, a people who independently decide can be considered a people and a state with a capital letter, and all the rest are vassals!
    2. to water
      +2
      December 21 2012
      Northerner you're wrong! (The Uzbeks are lucky that their main border does not lie next to such a chic neighbor as Democratic Afghanistan) They have a common border with Afghanistan. Troops were withdrawn through the Uzbek Termez. And if spirits come from and trample, then there it is most convenient. If Dushmans climb through any state bordering them, then they will quietly end up in neighboring states. Believe me, I lived in those parts, there are no borders, they are limited to the checkpoint on the roads.
      1. 0
        December 21 2012
        to water YOU yourself are wrong, read better and see the map! I indicated that main border! And, the main border at the Uzbeks with Turkmenistan and the Kazakhs, for comparison, you can count by kilometer, but basically you said it right that it’s more convenient to transfer through Termez!
  7. +8
    December 21 2012
    And what is there to think - the leadership of Uzbekistan - political prostitutes ...
  8. +12
    December 21 2012
    I apologize, I will correct (about the political pr ...). Not Uzbekistan, very good people live there. Karimov and his henchmen are yes! But why be surprised with whom you will lead (from the USA) from that and pick up.
    1. +14
      December 21 2012
      Quote: Oleg147741
      I apologize, I will correct (about the political pr ...). Not Uzbekistan, very good people live there. Karimov and his henchmen are yes! But why be surprised with whom you will lead (from the USA) from that


      Uzbekistan still claims to be the leader in the region and cannot accept the fact that another leader, Kazakhstan, for Russia, is a priority ally. The Tajik factor is very important there in connection with the withdrawal of amers from Afghanistan. Karimov’s only ally, General Dostum in northern Afghanistan, is all there. Therefore, Uzbekistan intends, with US assistance, to implement its stabilization plan in Afghanistan, which would most guarantee the security of the Afghan direction for Uzbekistan itself. But this plan could be detrimental to the interests of Dushanbe.
      "Yes, Tashkent's game in Afghanistan may be related to an attempt to resist the strengthening of the Tajik factor in the political spectrum of Afghan power. For example, the strengthening of the governor of Balkh province Atta Muhammad Nour. And here certain joint plans with the United States are possible,"

      A.Dubnov.

      Cooperation with the United States seems to be more profitable for Karimov than with Russia and membership in the CSTO. Therefore, when it is profitable for him, he enters there, when not, he exits

      1. 0
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Ascetic
        Cooperation with the United States seems to Karimov at the moment more profitable than with Russia and membership in the CSTO. Therefore, when it is profitable for him, he enters there, when not, he exits

        Well, if they see "happiness" in America, then if they enter, there will be no way back, overseas friends just don't let go.
  9. Roomata
    0
    December 21 2012
    mdya probably you need to pass the trivet to China competently breeds and takes away
  10. Starksa
    +3
    December 21 2012
    It reminds me of a cartoon where a donkey without a tail was presented with a ball, or rather what’s left of it, it comes in and goes out, comes in and goes out again, how cool it is))) Good cartoon)
  11. 416sd
    -6
    December 21 2012
    However, there are also states that have a very original position, the so-called “dissenting opinion” within a certain international community, and with this opinion they rush about like a chicken with an egg, not knowing where to find the proper application. That - not so, this - not that way, serve that, I do not know what; and everything like that. A demonstration of a kind of their own exclusivity is being made, on which everyone should either pray or put their own foreign policy as a priority.

    After the first paragraph I close the page and move on to the next material. This is gamut, and the author is a scribbler. the question is not in the subject - it is relevant, the question is in the tonality that the author chose. Serious things don’t write like that.
    1. +7
      December 21 2012
      And after the topic "gamno" and "moving on to other material" as many as half a dozen comments! That is, it turns out that I did not read the material, but I managed to scribble comments ... winked It is always interesting to see how citizens of countries that are not even members of the CSTO are splashing saliva over the decisions of the CSTO. Maybe you’ll understand the tone of your, excuse me, "GUAM" first ...
      1. Yarbay
        -8
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Volodin
        It is always interesting to see how citizens of countries that are not even members of the Collective Security Treaty Organization salivate about the decisions of the Collective Security Treaty Organization.

        In your opinion, if some country is a member of the Collective Security Treaty Organization and then leaves it, then you have the right to mix this country and its leadership with the Gamna !?
        And only you and the members of this organization can express their opinion ???
        The fact that you wrote an article in relation to Uzbekistan and its leaders, to put it mildly unethical, is a fact !!
        Quote: Volodin
        Maybe you’ll understand the tone of your, excuse me, "GUAM" first ...

        Let's understand what is wrong with GUAM and how can we compare an organization mainly economic with a military-political ???
        1. Misantrop
          +1
          December 21 2012
          Quote: Yarbay
          How can one compare an organization mainly economic with a military-political one?
          "War is the continuation of politics by violent means" (c) "Politics is the facade of the economy" (c) Haven't you met?
      2. +1
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Volodin
        But at a recent meeting of the CSTO in Moscow, the partner states (Armenia, Russia, Belarus, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan) decided not only to meet the requirements of official Tashkent for a temporary suspension of membership in the Organization, but to completely cease (suspend) its participation.

        Alexei, what position did Kazakhstan take?
        1. +1
          December 21 2012
          The decision on this issue was made by all member countries (including Kazakhstan)
    2. +1
      December 21 2012
      Sorry, maybe the tonality is not the same, but in fact ...
    3. Misantrop
      +3
      December 21 2012
      Quote: 416sd
      After the first paragraph I close the page and go to the next article

      Ingenious way! So the whole Internet can be read in a day laughing But knowledge from such "reading" is usually not added. Here the tone did not suit, there is the font ... lol
  12. andrey903
    0
    December 21 2012
    It is necessary to regularly indicate to the rabbis in their place From them only harm gastra, crime, drugs
    1. +1
      December 21 2012
      don’t you think that, based on your words, you smelled of fascism, Nazism? stop talking like that, there aren’t third-rate people living here
      1. +7
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Gentleman

        Д

        Sorry dear, but now about 50% of the population of Russia are experiencing nationalistic sentiments and this% is growing very quickly. Say why? Or do you make a conclusion yourself ?!
        1. 0
          December 21 2012
          so why? because a couple of freaks who have committed crimes are now a whole nation? why do not we have this in relation to the Russians?
          1. Misantrop
            +1
            December 21 2012
            Maybe they behave somewhat differently? recourse
        2. +1
          December 21 2012
          Zhenya
          Come on, tell me why
          Because crime grows from them. And if a local crime committed, not well, it's bad, of course, but he's his own, not one of the "people in large numbers", right?
      2. +1
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Gentleman
        , here not third-rate people live

        I am wildly sorry, but I don’t understand your division into grades, so please indicate the grade so that you can talk.
        1. +1
          December 21 2012
          well, apparently we speak different languages ​​... plus you for your answer.
          1. +2
            December 21 2012
            Dear Timur!
            We speak the same language, I apologize if I offended. Answer plus.
            I understand that in Uzbekistan there are more good people than FRADS who came to St. Petersburg, but as a rule I see and encounter the most unclassified elements. Although, objectively, I did not see the infamous behavior of the Azerbaijanis.
        2. 0
          December 21 2012
          Quote: omsbon
          I am wildly sorry, but I don’t understand your division into grades, so please indicate the grade so that you can talk.

          He is probably of the first grade, and the third was sent to us for work, as a re-grader. lol
  13. +4
    December 21 2012
    Uzbek merchants have always been famous for their skill in eastern bazaars, (grew up in Central Asia).
  14. Yarbay
    0
    December 21 2012
    In general, as usual, Comrade Volodin falls to insults (insulting tone) and lately he has been writing frank nonsense designed for ura-patriots !!!
    It is surprising that Volodin, as an author, does not work on his mistakes!
    Despite the fact that I personally, like Gromov, more than once caught him on biases and lies, I have never apologized to readers and do not think to change !!
    It surprises me because I consider Volodin a courageous person !!
    Dear Volodin, other countries also have their own interests, which may not coincide with the interests of the Russian oligarchy !!
    1. +18
      December 21 2012
      But what will happen to Uzbekistan itself without the support of Russia and without the money of the same migrants with the help of which in many ways the people still find a compromise with the authorities is a big question. A holy place is never empty. They will leave Russia and Uzbekistan will become the object of a geopolitical struggle for zones of influence between the USA and China.
      Russia brought order, peace and prosperity to Central Asia. There is simply no one to do this except her. Western civilization always “carries away” more, but not brings. They are interested in raw materials, not people. Soviet, Russian civilization is simply arranged differently. So are the Chinese
      they will create their enterprises on Uzbek raw materials and use them fully and bye, and the next market for Chinese goods is uncontrollable by anyone. But only one joint projects with Russia can give a profit ten times more, but it is not profitable for the bays to fall under the influence of the imperial ambitions of Russia and Russian chauvinists,
      1. Yarbay
        -12
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Ascetic
        A holy place is never empty. They will leave Russia and Uzbekistan will become the object of a geopolitical struggle for zones of influence between the USA and China.

        That's right !!!
        Quote: Ascetic
        Western civilization always “carries away” more, but not brings

        You can argue here !!
        Any empire takes more than it brings !!
        Quote: Ascetic
        They are interested in raw materials, not people.

        I think these are stereotypes !!
        Quote: Ascetic
        Soviet, Russian civilization is simply arranged differently
        I thought so too, but if you look at the history of the USSR, then there were also different opinions and views among the leaders !! And history, if Russia is looked up to the USSR, then Russia's policy towards the peoples of the territories attached to Russia was not much different from what Western representatives did of civilization! And after the USSR there is little difference in general !! Just look at everything objectively!
        Did the Roosian Empire seize the land not out of a banal desire to be larger and possess the resources of that territory ???
        And it gave the peoples exactly the same as other Empires, and sometimes even less !!
        Quote: Ascetic
        But only one joint projects with Russia can give a profit ten times more, but it’s not profitable for the bays to fall under the influence of the imperial ambitions of Russia and Russian chauvinists,

        Why ??? in my opinion is not a reasoned conclusion!
        1. +13
          December 21 2012
          Quote: Yarbay
          Russia's policy towards the peoples of the territories attached to Russia was not much different from what the representatives of Western civilization did! And after the USSR, it’s not much different !! Just look at everything objectively!
          Did the Roosian Empire seize the land not out of a banal desire to be larger and possess the resources of that territory ???
          And it gave the peoples exactly the same as other Empires, and sometimes even less !!


          Actually, the imperial policy of Tsarist Russia was essentially international (although she didn’t scream about it). Like the politics of subsequent Soviet Russia. It is just that the latter competed with Tsarskaya in internationalism.
          The current government also implements elements of imperial politics. Representatives of different nations are shown on the screen. In multinational regions, it is ensured that representatives of different nationalities (religions, teips, etc.) are in the local government - this is reportedly from there.
          But a flawed social, liberal policy based on the liberal system of the economy cannot but affect national politics. France already faced this when a speculative credit bubble burst, the government was forced to raise taxes on the one hand, and cut social programs on the other, and this primarily hit immigrants from Africa and the Arab East. And immediately, France again turned into a neocolonial empire infringing on the rights of the nazokrains (former colonies). And we have the whole burden of such a system on the shoulders of a nation-forming nation and all the same there are cries about oppression of national minorities and imperial ambitions .. Therefore, we Russians will soon have to look around in their own country .. God forbid hurt someone’s unique original culture or faith.
          Kvk says- Look around you not e..t who is you That's all imperial politics actually
          1. Yarbay
            -3
            December 21 2012
            Quote: Ascetic
            Actually, the imperial policy of Tsarist Russia was essentially international

            What was it expressed?))))))

            Quote: Ascetic
            And immediately, France again turned into a neocolonial empire infringing on the rights of the nazokrains (former colonies).

            The same thing happens with Russia)))))))
            Open your eyes Stanislav !!
            Quote: Ascetic
            The current government also implements elements of imperial politics. Representatives of different nations are shown on the screen. In multinational regions, it is ensured that representatives of different nationalities (religions, teips, etc.) are in the local government - this is reportedly from there.

            Well, do not be fooled, representatives of the oligarchy and not of the peoples !!
            And what changes the essence of imperial politics from this ??
            Is it not in Russia they shout enough to feed the Caucasus, Russia for Russians at the slightest crisis ????
            It’s funny to read what you wrote!
            !
            Quote: Ascetic
            Therefore, we Russians will soon have to look around in their own country .. God forbid, it touched someone's unique original culture or faith.

            This is generally stupid, I lived for a certain time in England and saw how they looked around and were afraid to offend the culture of other nations at the pre-human level !!! There are also people like you, that is, the adherents of your views were there, but basically they looked at them like Natsiks !
            It’s just that your power is poisoning you among themselves, so that they all understand that they are still upholding stability and instill similar concerns expressed by you !!!!
            Respectfully!
            1. +5
              December 22 2012
              Quote: Yarbay
              Is it not in Russia they shout enough to feed the Caucasus, Russia for Russians at the slightest crisis ????


              They shout .. Mostly on Bolotnaya .. and the Russians only manage them, except for the belt accessories. And the ideas are not Russian at all.
              Quote: Yarbay
              Well, do not be fooled, representatives of the oligarchy not peoples !!


              In my opinion, I do not have a word for peoples, I say representatives of different nations, because according to the Constitution, we have a multinational people is the subject of power. And the oligarchs have nothing to do with any nation, they are cosmopolitan people of the world. otherwise they would not have been oligarchs. It is on their money that they shout "Stop feeding the Caucasus"


              Quote: Yarbay
              This is generally stupid, I lived for a certain time in England and saw how they looked around and were afraid to offend the culture of other peoples at the pre-legislative level !!!


              In England, there are NO RUSSIANS there Russian-speaking PEOPLE OF THE WORLD, as they basically call themselves. And our government does not poison us, but acts in relation to the Russian and INDIGENOUS peoples and nations of Russia and living on the territory of Russia in accordance with the Constitution of Russia written at the direction of people from the same England and the USA. where there is no concept of a state-forming nation (there is NO such nationality as Russian in the Basic Law) and the indigenous peoples have been called national minorities (these are 5 million Tatars and 4 million. Bashkirs and a million Chechens, and the same Azerbaijanis are Russian citizens and there are many of them - not PEOPLE are equal citizens. And who are the DEFENSE who needs to be protected, From whom is asked? And this is stated in article 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation on incitement to national isolation. And since there are no Russians according to the Law, there can be no ethnic danger towards them. this Law is present and guarantees the protection of their rights.
              1. +3
                December 22 2012
                Compare.
                Constitution of Azerbaijan.

                Article 1. Source of power

                I. In the Republic of Azerbaijan, the only source of state power is people of Azerbaijan.

                II. The people of Azerbaijan consist of citizens of the Republic of Azerbaijan residing in the territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan and abroadconsidered as subject to the Azerbaijani state and its laws, which does not exclude the norms established by international law.


                The Constitution of Russia
                Article 3

                1. The holder of sovereignty and the only source of power in the Russian Federation is its multinational people.


                And all, but where is the definition of this multinational people, what kind of people are they, in general, such a multinational of which nations it consists of?
                Even you have a definition clearly and clearly, the people of Azerbaijan and further on are those citizens who live on its territory. There are no multinational peoples of national minorities and small nations whose rights must be separately protected as in Russia, People and the Point.
                Of course, the comparison is incorrect, different government structure. But I compared it with Germany (the federation too). So everything is clear there. The German people and the point ..
                1. Yarbay
                  0
                  December 22 2012
                  Quote: Ascetic
                  1. The bearer of sovereignty and the only source of power in the Russian Federation is its multinational people.

                  Do not you think that the multinational people means all the people living in Russia, including Russians! ?? Ask any lawyer !!
                  Quote: Ascetic
                  There are no multinational peoples of national minorities and small nations whose rights must be separately protected as in Russia,

                  Dear Stanislav! I have such a question for you, what rights of national minorities are being protected in Russia, so what is bothering you? -I want to understand without sarcasm and irony! And what are the rights of Russian infringed ??
              2. Yarbay
                0
                December 22 2012
                Quote: Ascetic
                In England there are NO RUSSIANS there are Russian-speaking PEOPLE OF THE WORLD,

                The question is not whether there are Russians there or not, I wrote about the attitude in England towards the national minority and at the level of laws!And there are plenty of Russians there !!
                Quote: Ascetic
                and the indigenous peoples were called national minorities (these are 5 million Tatars and 4 million. Bashkirs and a million Chechens, and the same Azerbaijanis are Russian citizens and there are many of them - not PEOPLE are equal citizens

                I did not understand this!
      2. Misantrop
        +4
        December 21 2012
        The trouble is that an alliance with Russia benefits primarily the people, not a bunch of oligarchs. And the ruling clan is much more important to get drunk now, the concept of "tomorrow" for them is most often an incomprehensible abstraction
      3. +3
        December 21 2012
        "So do the Chinese
        will create their own enterprises using Uzbek raw materials "

        Do you know how much gas Lukoil and Gazprom pump out in Uzbekistan?
  15. borisst64
    +9
    December 21 2012
    Actually, this is a collective security treaty. I imagine how valiant Uzbek warriors go to battle defending Russian citizens. Do not make me laugh, for God's sake!
  16. +5
    December 21 2012
    what aggression from all of you, gentlemen of Russia. and we are rabbis, both drug addicts and criminals. why do you immediately get personal, is it impossible to omit it all? not all criminals and drugs are certainly not from Uzbekistan. you won’t understand why you are human quality transfer to another plane. then the question immediately, recently there was a topic regarding Kazakhstan, it turns out also an enemy? was Tajikistan an enemy too? only it turns out that we didn’t bow, you friends, and how to deal with independence? only in the Russian Federation? But politics in itself is prostitution. It’s profitable, so together, it’s not profitable to leave. If for that matter, then in the 91st everyone came out, why didn’t anyone stay? and since Lavrov himself came to us, it turns out that Russia’s interest in Uzbekistan is increased, calm is everything ... and I ask, after all, we are people, we won’t go on insults. with respect.
    1. +1
      December 21 2012
      The gentleman,
      Everything is simple, any country like China, the USA, Russia will crush small countries and these are not unique phenomena, it was, is and will be. This is all called the sphere of influence, if a country turns away from a stronger and larger country, wait for the consequences and nothing to do with independence.
      1. 0
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Marrying
        This is all called the sphere of influence, if a country turns away from a stronger and larger country, wait for the consequences and nothing to do with independence.

        True. One more nuance, if they were somewhere far, far away, or else they were close by, why do we need an extra headache if the Americans take them into circulation?
    2. Fox
      +3
      December 21 2012
      independence ... independence ... like parrots ... about the events in Andijan I know from the direct participants in the events. It’s cool when I talked with guys from the Uzbek special forces (leopard, in my opinion), they said that their whole battalion! asked what so little? answer: they couldn’t get more ... some drug and income ... it's about the Uzbek Uzbek armed forces. comrade, Uzbek, goes to Russia to work on construction sites. illegally. 14 years old. he has 5-6 people with his team built a couple of streets in a cottage village..for quality, orders the sea., it’s a real turn ... but he can’t do Russian citizenship. He’s not happy about the Karimov’s.
    3. Fergus
      +3
      December 21 2012
      it's just that Russia, Britain, Germany, the United States have historically developed (wars, showdowns among themselves, etc., etc.) as states that determine their spheres of influence, respectively, the citizens of these countries have formed an imperial vision of events both inside and outside countries, and this "feeling", "understanding" - can only be taken away from them by force (for example, as a result of World War III). Or you need to work hard at home, raise Uzbekistan to a new level, a stage from which it will be possible to "bazaar" on equal terms ...
      1. +2
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Fergus
        Or you need to work hard at home, raise Uzbekistan to a new level, a stage from which it will be possible to "bazaar" on equal terms ...

        Absolutely true conclusion. On someone else’s hump you will not enter paradise!
      2. +2
        December 21 2012
        it is unlikely that Uzbekiston will ever be able to talk with someone on equal terms, especially with Russia. will you blackmail us with cotton?
        1. bask
          +4
          December 21 2012
          Quote: kalbofos
          it is unlikely that Uzbekiston will ever be able to talk with someone on equal terms, especially with Russia. you
          Blackmailing Russia doesn’t work out ... TALKING ... And he already was friends with amers, we all know what such friendship is over ... Uzbekistan has alternatives ((((as a main ally and economic partner ((((Russia no.
          1. Fergus
            -1
            December 21 2012
            There are alternatives to Uzbekistan ((((as the main ally and economic partner ((((Russia is not.
            You need to be treated for a long time and seriously! Do not interfere under our feet, and there we ourselves will taxi out where necessary.
        2. Yarbay
          -3
          December 21 2012
          Quote: kalbofos
          it is unlikely that Uzbekiston will ever be able to talk with someone on equal terms, especially with Russia. will you blackmail us with cotton?

          To speak with you on equal terms, do you have to blackmail you ???
          But is not too much megalomania ??
        3. Fergus
          -1
          December 21 2012
          it is unlikely that Uzbekiston will ever be able to talk with someone on equal terms, especially with Russia. will you blackmail us with cotton?
          Typical Russian logic to "blackmail" to "talk"! And only dare after that talk about friendship and other crap. Everything is clear with you!
    4. +18
      December 21 2012
      Dear Timur! Do not be so painful to perceive the statements of members of the forum. We are just different. We are different, I mean Asian and Slavs. For the majority of Slavs (and I think this is right), actions should not diverge from words. For an Asian, words are just words, and unlike the Slavic word, the word Asian does not carry an obligation for the object that gave it. Your non-respected Karimov, he acted as head of state towards Russia and other members of the CSTO in just such an unnecessary way, completely in the spirit of Asian piety, while in Russia this particular word has always been the highest measure of a person’s obligation to a person and the sovereign before the sovereign, for which Russia forever paid. Of course, this muck (the optionality of the word) penetrated us, but fortunately, the basis of the members of the forum, people are deeply decent and living old Russian foundations. Hence, such a negative. Yes, Uzbekistan is interesting to Russia as a buffer between Afghanistan and Russia, as a neighbor of the CSTO members, whose borders should be safe, but nothing more. There has never been a great love between us under union. I say this because my adolescence passed in Tajikistan and when the Russians built the entire industry of Soviet Central Asia, we still remained strangers there, whom we often openly hated. The only exception was the Russified local intelligentsia, whose children studied in Russian schools and absorbed Russian culture. Karimov’s problem is that he didn’t even try to change the opinion of the Russian people about his people, which he had probably forgotten how the whole country lifted Tashkent from the ruins by an earthquake, but they were 90% Russian. We, the Uzbeks, do not owe you anything, but most of what you inherited after the collapse of the USSR was not built by your hands and your brains, but Russian people did all this.
      We were, we are and we will be a great country, which can not be said about Uzbekistan. It seems to me that after 2015, in your country, the unrest of starving families will begin very naturally, whose breadwinners will no longer be allowed into Russian territory for daily bread, and the Karimov pend-friends will have their share, do not hesitate. The world is designed in such a way that the weak should be near the strong. This is the law. Karimov made his choice towards the states. Only in contrast to Russia, which at least supports external decency, the United States will quickly show Uzbekistan on which side the pants are wide and where its place is. And Uzbekistan will get busy, get a color revolution. Historically, Asians are easier to buy than Slavs, although of course we have this de..ma now have enough. So wait for change. Very soon they will come to you. Do not be offended, nothing personal, just a statement of facts.
      1. Yarbay
        -3
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Victor
        Do not be so painful to perceive the statements of members of the forum. We are just different. We are different, I mean Asian and Slavs.

        It seems to me we are all different people !!! And among the Slavs there are enough trepakas among the Asians !!
        Quote: Victor
        For an Asian, words are just words, and unlike the Slavic word

        And what is the power of the Slavic word ???))))))))))) It seems I remember the Slavs members of the Central Committee of the CPSU on TV vowed 5 hours before the troops were sent to Baku that they would never do that !!!
        And millions I will give examples of such !!
        Ata who remained in the CSTO Asians are not Asians, but Slavs))))))))))) ???
        Quote: Victor
        living old Russian foundations.


        Quote: Victor
        deeply decent people
        There’s no comment at all, I don’t want to offend anyone, especially since there really are GOLDEN GUYS !!!
        With whom I do not always agree, but for whom I will go to the ends of the world without blinking an eye, they only considered it necessary to call me!

        Quote: Victor
        And Uzbekistan will get busy, get a color revolution

        it is now beyond the power of Russia!
        1. +3
          December 21 2012
          Quote: Yarbay
          it is now beyond the power of Russia!

          The conversation is not about Russia, but about the United States, read carefully. As for the CPSU Members, far from all were Slavs; moreover, there were practically no Slavs there. Now about those who remained in the CSTO meaning Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. No, they are not Slavs and no more faith in them than Uzbeks, they just took the side of Russia on the basis of their own benefit and the benefit of their leaders, nothing more. But who would I call Slavs in spirit, these are Kazakhs. And it’s not surprising, mutual penetration dates back to tsarist times, plus they are steppemen, pastoralists, and not traders. Therefore, they have a different spirit and attitude to this word.
          1. Yarbay
            0
            December 21 2012
            Quote: Victor
            Slavs in spirit

            Now not just Slavs, but Slavs in spirit Close to you))))))
            Clearly Ukrainians are Slavs, but not in spirit,, Poles, too))))))))))) because they are flirting with NATO, but Russia needs to say what ((or rather, its oligarchic elite))
            then do it, then be at least a black man, even an Arab, but will be a Slav close to Victor in spirit!!!)))
            Quote: Victor
            not traders

            Damn in 90 years, in Turkey I saw thousands of Slavs who are close in spirit to you as traders with huge trunks !!))))))))))))))))
            1. Karish
              +3
              December 21 2012
              Quote: Yarbay
              Now, not just the Slavs, but the Slavs are close in spirit to you))

              Those. - already we divide the brothers of the Slavs - into those close in spirit and distant laughing
              Assad - congenial - though not a Slav, but Ukrainians - how are they? Or the Germans - they are not Slavs, but apparently close in spirit, because gas is 2 times cheaper than Ukrainians. The article is nonsense, and until you perceive your brothers as brothers, nothing will change and they will answer you the same. Everyone’s different children are both good and not very successful and not quite - but the mother loves everyone the same. Here is what you need to understand.
            2. tekinoral
              +1
              December 21 2012
              Quote: Yarbay
              Damn, in 90 years, in Turkey I saw thousands of Slavs who are close in spirit to you as merchants with huge trunks !!

              they are still full there, not long ago in Istanbul, a Russian traded in a local bazaar and didn’t believe that I was a Turk, and there is nothing wrong with that; people earn their bread and salt honestly and that’s all, you have to respect them and not look at them with high
            3. +1
              December 21 2012
              In my opinion, you and I did not drink to brotherhood and did not switch to "you", but if you yourself wanted to, then I answer you, yes, the Kazakhs are much closer in spirit to the Slavs than your hucksters. The Ukrainians are our brothers, no matter how anyone wants to embroil us, the Poles have betrayed all the Slavs from time immemorial. And then, what do you care for a Turk to our Slavic affairs? Build your own independent, almost Israeli, Azerbaijan, we do not bother you, God help you and Yusov's pen wherever you need it .. In the 90s it was really difficult for us, we survived it and now Turkey replenishes its budget at the expense of our tourists, buys our gas is produced by our "Gazelles", and your fellow tribesmen are still sticking out in our markets and fuck them than you can squeeze out of Russia. One word-traders.
              1. tekinoral
                +1
                December 21 2012
                Victor,
                Quote: Victor
                now Turkey replenishes its budget at the expense of our tourists, buys our gas, produces our Gazel

                It is precisely at the expense of gas and oil that Russia fills the budget of the sold Turkey! Russian tourists bring in 3 billion and Turkey buys from you for 25 billion I hope you know how to count, about the Gazelle they will produce 4000 thousand pieces a year, some small thing. Turkey has many more enterprises in Russia than yours, household appliances, furniture factories, plumbing fixtures and much more. Only recently a contract was signed for the construction of 20 enterprises for the production of spare parts for cars in Russia,
        2. +2
          December 21 2012
          Quote: Yarbay
          it is now beyond the power of Russia!

          Firstly, Russia does not need this, secondly, there is a unique specialist in the world in organizing all kinds of revolutions and democratizations, the USA, I agree with Victor here.
      2. +4
        December 21 2012
        Dear Victor, no one denies that Russia is a great country and many changes were thanks precisely to the USSR. Regarding the Russian people, yes, they were, but there were also scientists from the local population, thanks to whom much was done not only in Uzbekistan, but in general and in USSR. I, just like you, am a patriot of my country in which I live, so that they also talk about my country, as well as about Russia. It can be ridiculous, but this is how a person should live. Regarding political changes, yes, every maybe the actions of politicians do not always suit the people, but we live and try to change something. Regarding the relations between the peoples, take my word for it, we respect the Russians and there are no problems with that. Sincerely, Timur
        1. 0
          December 21 2012
          Well done, he said everything right! good
        2. +3
          December 21 2012
          Dear Timur! You are probably one of the few whom I called the local intelligentsia in the previous post, putting in this definition the good that I could remember about my life in Asia during the Soviet period. Honor and praise to you. But I remember a lot more. In particular, I remember well the Fergana events with the Meskhetian Turks, when, under the guise of the Uzbeks and the Russians, Mom walked through the Russians, don't worry! Such things are never forgotten. So the conversation was not about the entire population of Uzbekistan, but about the fact that irresponsible leaders lead their countries into a political dead end, creating even bigger problems for their people than they had, especially when this country has nothing to boast about. We . Slavs, people are not evil by nature, if we do not get bothersome, of course, and we are always better off good and friendly relations than enmity, but for the most part we are really imperials and what is in the order of things for an ordinary small country (change priorities) looks like betrayal. Probably this view is not "tolerant", and we are not tolerant either. Whoever comes to us with friendship and peace, that is bread and salt, and who turns his backwards, as usual, under his backside. Do not fill in about respect for Russians. Respect of individual Uzbeks for individual Russians does not mean general respect for the people. Even under the USSR, this respect was not, I saw everything with my own eyes. But honestly, Timur, you are worthy of respect and friendship as a person, at least for your persistent intelligence in communication. It seems to me that if people like you led Uzbekistan, there would be much less problems.
          Sincerely, Victor.
          1. +3
            December 21 2012
            Dear Victor, I thank these words addressed to me. Such situations existed in the Fergana Valley and I myself came across more than once, when I spoke Russian, they told me in response to leave, etc., until I say something in Uzbek. such words disappear right away. However, I know quite a few people, not a few Uzbeks who really relate to Russians. You know, over the past two years I have not even heard something like "this is Russian", etc., not everything is so bad , as the media show. at the same time, let it be incorrect, but still in Russia there are a lot of examples when a conflict was brewing on ethnic grounds. After all, the place of the issue of the Caucasus is still the place. Moreover, do not count that I boast, but for inciting ethnic hatred is very severely punished and it really works. Of course, I have always adhered that it is better to be friends with a neighbor than through a neighbor with a distant one. But we are discussing here and I think the time will come when we will definitely meet and drink a bowl of tea under wonderful Uzbek pilaf ... p.s. pilaf is already a popular d for all))) with respect, Timur.
        3. +2
          December 21 2012
          "Russians are respected here and there are no problems with that."
          I confirm by my example
      3. 0
        December 21 2012
        We are different, I mean Asian and Slavs. For the majority of Slavs (and I think this is right), actions should not diverge from words. For an Asian, words are just words, and unlike the Slavic word, the word Asian does not carry an obligation for the object that gave it.


        Gyyyy ... *) it’s funny you wrote this piece like that ... *) again, all right, but with a checker ... *) remind you the price of the words of your leadership in the 90s, code Russia =leadership, of course ... I, unlike you, make the difference between pro-politics and life = famously threw everyone and everything, intensively, licking the gonads of the United States to the mirror shine, and the West as a whole ... and from the high bell tower I spit on all attempts of the CA to integrate with you ... did you forget that? Is the memory short? *)))

        Vot la-la is not necessary, about the "Slavic word" or there "Uzbek". The word is one - "HUMAN". I don't know others ... *)
      4. Fergus
        +1
        December 21 2012
        We were, we are and we will be a great country, which can not be said about Uzbekistan

        Amazing conceit!
        while in Russia this particular word has always been the highest measure of a person’s obligation to a man and a sovereign to a sovereign, for which Russia always paid

        I cried, you need a speech writer to go to Putin, talent disappears
        Only in contrast to Russia, which at least supports external decency, the United States will quickly show Uzbekistan on which side the pants are wide and where its place is. And Uzbekistan will get busy, get a color revolution

        And Russia will bother, they will arrange a color revolution for it - I see such an option for the development of events, in principle, you reject that self-conceit is over the top!
        And what awaits us is the point! And hard times await us, our president from the same test as Putin, such a storyteller, and steals a little bit, probably yes - he will agree on something, God forbid to spill blood about it only and ask Allah!
  17. 0
    December 21 2012
    Russia usually tries to fulfill its obligations under international treaties and agreements, even when it happens to its detriment, no one gets dizzy, "yes", "yes", "no", so "no" ... and what a game this is for "I want", "I do not want", this is international relations, and not playing "daisy" in a children's sandbox ..
  18. His
    +1
    December 21 2012
    How old is Karimov? After all, already deserved saxaul (or aksakal), what difference is still old
    1. +1
      December 21 2012
      He’ll catch a cold at our funeral ...
  19. +4
    December 21 2012
    Excessive pains only creates this Karimov!
    Now Russia will have to spend money on arranging the border!
    I have to do everything according to all the rules of the border guard: a command post, dogs and towers with machine guns so that not a single dealer in death crawls or arrives, does not fly to our territory! winked
    Amen, joint patrolling!
    1. Fergus
      +3
      December 21 2012
      Or is it better to lift the moratorium on the death penalty? Here we have jokes with drugs in the Roose, quickly put to the wall
    2. +3
      December 21 2012
      When there was the USSR, the Turkish Iranian and Chinese border guards hoped for the Soviet border guards. Even in hot times it was necessary to stop by "accidentally" at a distance of 3 - 5 km into the territory of China (Xinjiang), and never saw the border guards. Now the drug goes through the Aral Sea region ( Karakalpakstan) -Kazakh border guards have enough work. And the USSR was destroyed by a trio of "pawns" - the peoples have nothing to do. In Uzbekistan (as well as in other republics), clans rule, it was not in vain that they moved the capital to Kazakhstan. Gas in Uzbekistan is sold to the maximum, and residents, in particular, of the Fergana Valley are offered to switch to coal But to re-equip a lot of boiler houses costs a lot of money, which Karimov, of course, does not have. And let him remember the fate of Shevardnadze. Only Uzbekistan is not Georgia, and there will be a lot of blood, unfortunately, of the people.
      1. Marek Rozny
        +3
        December 22 2012
        Kazakhs are now equipping the southern border tightly. Work goes on without stopping.

        In the photo: work on the arrangement of the Kazakh border with the Turkmens (Caspian region)
        Close the border with Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Such a continuous wall is not erected with Kyrgyzstan, because sooner or later, they will still enter the vehicle. It’s better to help them strengthen their border.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          December 22 2012
          And this is the border with the Uzbeks.
  20. +3
    December 21 2012
    sergo0000,
    In all the minuses, you need to look for the pros :)
    1. +1
      December 21 2012
      Zhenya,
      It is also true. Only I feel sorry for the ancient cities of Uzbekistan! They are very beautiful. The "oilmen" will come there and it will be like in Iraq and Libya, hunger. Death and devastation!
  21. +1
    December 21 2012
    Collaboration with the United States did not benefit anyone except the United States. And what at first glance seems to be a benefit is actually bondage. Karimov will lead, then amers will show him a cookie, and from the promised, hardly 10% will fall. And the boat will be swept away by the color revolution. The venal creatures are not liked anywhere and they will certainly be more likely to insure themselves and they will probably put their Sahak in prison, otherwise they will suddenly "think again" again and ask the CSTO
  22. +1
    December 21 2012
    Shuhrat turani,
    Russia has always been, is and will be an empire; it is not Europe - it is Eurasia and our ambitions will always be high, our country has expanded and lost territory for centuries, but in the end it has become wider anyway, I would not be surprised if after 200 years ( if the planet still exists), Russia will crush the good 35-40% of the continent and will have even more ambitions.
    1. Fergus
      +1
      December 21 2012
      Zhenya! It's time to set up production of "gubazakatalok" wink... What are the ambitions? First, resolve issues with corruption, the Ministry of Defense is selling your "ambitions" from left to right, and the Caucasus, and demography, and the deterioration of infrastructure (it's scary to think you want to export "fools" and "roads" to the whole planet - this is anarchy of a planetary scale), and then by that time either China or the United States will take over the rest!
  23. +4
    December 21 2012
    It seems to me that this is not really about Russia. I don’t even remember the small people that Russia robbed. Examples of enrichment (cultural, industrial, etc.) are numerous.
  24. +6
    December 21 2012
    Let's say directly, with this approach of Uzbekistan, the most correct words:
    "Goodbye to Rovshana and Jamshuda! Farewell Uzbekistan!"
  25. +7
    December 21 2012
    Quote: Vorchun
    Uzbek merchants have always been famous for their skill in eastern bazaars, (grew up in Central Asia).

    +100500
    Sharikhan, not far from Andijan, 1981, by agreement with DOSAAF in Sharikhan, they decided to open an aircraft model club based on the local station of SUT, I receive parcels, micromotors, I take everything to SHARIKHAN and rent it to the director of SUT. Everyone is happy, the first lesson with the children is planned for tomorrow. Comes tomorrow, I worry, how it goes, I’m going from Andijan to Sharikhan (60 km), on the way to the SUT I need to go through the local market, and what can I see ?! Director of SUT, sitting in the market on his own and ... selling my packages and micromotors ... Paragraph. smile
  26. 0
    December 21 2012
    Guys, what the hell are you doing. Uzbekistan simply left the CSTO to earn money on the withdrawal of amers from Afghanistan. By agreement of the CSTO, foreign troops may be in the territory of the CSTO states only with the consent of all CSTO members. So I had to go out, well, like we were going to work in the morning. And in the evening, as we earn money - be sure to go home.
    1. Yarbay
      -2
      December 21 2012
      Quote: Vodrak
      Uzbekistan simply left the CSTO to earn money on the withdrawal of amers from Afghanistan. By agreement of the CSTO, foreign troops may be in the territory of the CSTO states only with the consent of all CSTO members. So I had to go out, well, like we were going to work in the morning. And in the evening, as we earn money - be sure to go home.

      In principle, a lot of money, if so, then the game is worth the candle !!
  27. sasanic
    +4
    December 21 2012
    And let them come out of the CIS, let the Russians have fun! and then when they crawl on their knees you take them back !!!!

    PS Hurry up with us, in Estonia and in the whole Baltic, the power has changed to Russian !!!
    1. +2
      December 21 2012
      I’m wondering how well she will receive Russian power in the Baltic states?
  28. to water
    +8
    December 21 2012
    I will tell you my opinion. What they say in the republics says differently about Russians is all a lie. I lived in Central Asia, at the end of the 80s, outright racism was manifested there. Russian women were raped, killed, compiled lists of Russians at the place of residence by entire families in order to later be cut out. A Tajik in my eyes told me a vali from my land, otherwise I will kill you. So do not talk about some kind of intolerance and injustice. And the fact that Tajikistan or Uzbekistan are trying to engage in extortion, I propose to take a tough stance. Or the country is an ally to us, but then it would be nice to flirt with the West, or at least an unfriendly state, because Friendship with the West is not possible with all the ensuing consequences. Then it is necessary to close the border, block the road to drug trafficking, no jobs in Russia. For illegal crossing the border once - to expel, on relapse - to plant. The whole problem is that in our country there is no ruler with eggs, no one in twenty years has conducted an independent state policy. But everything is known in comparison, they would unfasten one of the republics beyond the perimeter of influence and as a warning to everyone and would have raped the democratization of a totalitarian state. IMHO
    1. 0
      December 21 2012
      I will tell you my opinion. What they say in the republics says differently about Russians is all a lie. I lived in Central Asia, at the end of the 80s, outright racism was manifested there. - I live from birth in Uzbekistan, and the events you described were also with us. BUT! It is not necessary to row ALL the people in one pile, not EVERYONE said so! In the early 1990s, with me on a bus, the Uzbeks themselves shut up their comrade when he began to show something to a man of European appearance, like you are occupiers, took our places, bring down to your Russia. Yes, there were many such cases, but on this basis it is impossible to speak badly about the whole people.
      they would unfasten one of the republics beyond the perimeter of influence and for edification of all and would have raped the example of democratization of a totalitarian state - Yes, but at the same time you’ll have another US military base (or NATO) at hand, and then Russian politicians will unanimously howl that this bad NATO has again overlaid the Russian Federation with bases from all sides. A few months ago, in one of the topics related to Uzbekistan, I spoke about Russia's slurred policy towards this region. If this or that state is really geopolitically beneficial, then you need to do everything that it was loyal to you. What methods is already a question for competent authorities. And then: guest workers are mostly SIMPLE people who go to earn money to support their families, they are not to blame for the fact that there is no work at home.
      And there are also examples of the fact that Russia behaved ugly towards Uzbekistan. In the same 1990s, Yeltsin promised Karimov to help with equipment, weapons and ammunition, because there were problems with this, and Uzbekistan was ready to pay for it. In the end, EBN did not keep his word. Later Karimov in one of his interviews with foreign correspondents bitterly told about this and added that everything promised by Russia was delivered without problems by other CIS countries and China. I personally watched this interview and am afraid that Russian journalists were not very comfortable listening to it.
    2. +5
      December 21 2012
      Quote: regar
      I will tell you my opinion. What they say in the republics has a different attitude to Russian is all a lie .....

      I was talking with refugees from Uzbekistan, a crowd of Uzbeks came with knives, etc., and they didn’t even give me furniture from a 7-room house. They gave half an hour to the camp.
      1. +1
        December 21 2012
        Denisey, and such cases, unfortunately, were also. There are enough creatures and thugs everywhere.
  29. brush
    -2
    December 21 2012
    Someone here about gastrabaytera sang jellied songs. Guest workers are holding Russia! Find a Russian who did not use the labor of a guest worker.
    And there is no need to yell "me sluggish", "without us you will devour each other", "without us you are a khan." If Russia closes its borders, Uzbeks will go to other countries. Do you think everyone in Russia makes money?
    I know full of people working both in the West and in the East. Uzbeks are a cultured people, and such work. Farmers since ancient times. They are valued everywhere. Of course, there are also half-wits, but where are they not?
    Russia does not have enough labor resources, and moreover, cheap ones. And more than anything else, they lived in one state.
    Do not want the Uzbeks, get the Chinese. Yes, only 1,5 billion of them. Inadvertently swallow can. Huh? Not at ease?
    So you don’t need to raise such a hi because of the CSTO. We are neighbors and close friends, and God willing will be friends further. And Karimov, as it may, can be twisted, put yourself in his place.
    1. +1
      December 21 2012
      brush, nevertheless, a large part in Russia is on earnings, agree.
      1. +1
        December 21 2012
        the brush says it right. how to cheaply stir up repairs, so migrant workers are good. how to settle accounts with them, get out, otherwise I’ll call the police, the bloody illegal immigrants, rapists, thieves and drug addicts
        1. +3
          December 21 2012
          Quote: bazilio
          the brush says it right. how to cheaply stir up repairs, so migrant workers

          smart people don’t flatter themselves for a long time doing repairs by inviting Russian masters, and illegal immigrants are busy with rough work, since euro-dripping and euro-burping are already in the past.
    2. +5
      December 21 2012
      Quote: brush
      Find a Russian who did not use the labor of a guest worker.

      I did not use.
      Quote: brush
      Russia does not have enough labor resources, and moreover, cheap ones.

      Yah? There are plenty of unemployed Russians.
  30. tekinoral
    -12
    December 21 2012
    I don’t understand one thing, you will hate everyone and everyone should love you. Does this happen? Why do everyone turn away from Russia initially ask yourself and think! If you don’t respect other nations, no one will respect you either! And you will lose other friends too quietly
    1. +12
      December 21 2012
      Quote: tekinoral
      you will hate everyone and everyone should love you


      already tried differently: both loved, and rebuilt the country and considered for brothers.
      The brothers turned out to be parasites and traitors.


      Quote: tekinoral
      Why does everyone turn away from Russia initially ask yourself and think!


      what for ? and so everything is clear - each trembling for his own skin.


      Quote: tekinoral
      If you do not respect other nations, no one will respect you either!


      We respect other nations, whether they respect us, in the light of recent events, we do not care ---- we are now only interested in our own interests, INTERESTS OF RUSSIA, the rest is secondary.


      Quote: tekinoral
      And you will also quietly lose other friends


      the main thing is that Russia has an army and a navy, then the crowd will run as friends.
      1. +3
        December 21 2012
        The brothers turned out to be parasites and traitors. - Carlsonne, You definitely have a plus for the phrase, but on condition that it is said in relation to the political elite of Uzbekistan, and not in relation to the PEOPLE. The simple Uzbek people have nothing to share with the simple Russian people, the Uzbeks were well disposed towards the Russians. This is how I speak Russian to you.
        1. +4
          December 21 2012
          UzRus

          Quote: UzRus
          but provided that it is said in relation to the political elite of Uzbekistan, and not in relation to the PEOPLE.


          Naturally, this is exactly what I had in mind, it’s a pity if the phrase turned out to be ambiguous.
          Unfortunately, political elites behave like enemies of their people and by their actions begin to judge the people of this nation and the country as a whole - regrettably.


          Quote: UzRus
          The simple Uzbek people have nothing to share with the simple Russian people, the Uzbeks were well disposed towards the Russians.


          I, as a communist, profess internationalism.
          1. 0
            December 21 2012
            Unfortunately, political elites behave like enemies of their people and by their actions begin to judge the people of this nation and the country as a whole - it is regrettable, I, as a communist, profess internationalism - You definitely have a plus!
            1. +2
              December 21 2012
              UzRus

              Thanks of course, but not at all.
              if my friends are: Jew, Kazakh, Uyghur, Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Armenian, Azerbaijani, Belarusian, Ukrainian, it’s scary to say - American and German and so on - how can one judge a nation and the country as a whole by the actions of politicians or excesses scumbags request

              I, too, being in a state not worthy of an officer, planted into the sky from a pump to heaven, celebrating the anniversary of the Chesme battle in Crimea with shouts:
              - Sevastopol is a Russian city!


              and now what, to put it mildly, in an unreasonable act, will we write down all Russians in thugs who can only drink, shout - Tagil and all that?
              1. +4
                December 21 2012
                I absolutely agree with you! In general, the Union had the right policy - internationalism. I never put and never put myself above a person of a different nationality. Another thing is that there are morons and scumbags, and by and large in every nationality they are, in the family there are not freaks. But it’s wrong to judge others. IMHO.
                1. Yarbay
                  +4
                  December 21 2012
                  Quote: UzRus
                  In general, the Union had the right policy - internationalism

                  Do not sprinkle salt on the wound !!!
                  But I would emphasize to Gorbachev !!
                  1. +1
                    December 21 2012
                    Alibek, hello! At the mention of this surname, people will still spit for a long time and use foul language. Like me for example ...
                2. 0
                  December 21 2012
                  UzRus

                  I am always amazed at how one can judge a person by color of skin, religion or by the crimes of others, it would seem clear to everyone - and evano how it goes sad
            2. +1
              December 21 2012
              The Emperor and the people have one enemy, the aristocracy (now the political elite).
              The works of Machiavelli are still relevant.
      2. tekinoral
        -4
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Karlsonn
        the main thing is that Russia has an army and navy, then the crowd will run as friends

        Then there are no questions. you have long concluded all the traitors around you and they reciprocate with you
        1. +4
          December 21 2012
          tekinoral

          Quote: tekinoral
          you have long concluded all traitors


          You misunderstood me, if earlier we built cities and hospitals in the same Uzbekistan, now Russia should build factories in Uzbekistan.
          So that the Uzbeks do not take away money from Russia as guests, but work at home, but the main profit from production went to Russia.
          Traitor, not a traitor is all rubbish! There is the main thing - INTERESTS OF RUSSIA!


          Quote: tekinoral
          you have long concluded all the traitors around you and they reciprocate with you


          I don’t give a damn about who responds there and what, I repeat --- the main thing is that Russia pursues a policy that is advantageous and consistent in all regions, in Central Asia, in particular, that Russia systematically and continuously strengthens its army and navy; and then everyone who is spoiling us right now will all run back.

          Why do you have such Russophobic views? You're not Russian? You Russians began to spoil your life before birth?
          1. +2
            December 21 2012
            Quote: Karlsonn
            Why do you have such Russophobic views? You're not Russian? You Russians began to spoil your life before birth?


            Of course he is not Russian, look at his name in the profile and everything will fall into place! hi sorry this smiley pace is missing.
          2. tekinoral
            0
            December 21 2012
            Quote: Karlsonn
            Why do you have such Russophobic views?


            Have you noticed Russophobic comments somewhere, or do you think non-Russian is not what to do on this site?
            1. +4
              December 21 2012
              Quote: tekinoral
              or do you think non-Russian is not what to do on this site?

              God forbid from such not tolerance. We are very happy to communicate with adequate and competent people. It is possible to talk with inadequate and simply hating Russia, using the example of such communication, I show children what the country can get to if there are many Tolerasts and liberals in it. No nationalism, no way. We have a different level of ratings.
            2. +4
              December 21 2012
              ... You didn’t always defeat us!, Look at the ratio of the population what they were, and accordingly you had more soldiers! , You are from the top league already down to the bottom too, do not forget ....

              Do you recall the history of the Russian-Turkish wars? Battle of Chexmen for example?

              Quote: tekinoral
              Have you noticed Russophobic comments somewhere?


              currently too lazy to look, but it was.


              Quote: tekinoral
              or do you think non-Russian is not what to do on this site?


              no, I don’t think so, I’ll say more - the more there will be foreigners and non-Russians here --- the better!
              As a result, communication will be more productive for everyone.
          3. Fergus
            -2
            December 21 2012
            yes, I don’t give a damn about who responds there and what, I repeat --- the main thing is that Russia pursues a policy that is advantageous and consistent in all regions, in Central Asia in particular

            And the main thing for us is that people like YOU keep their "evil" intentions regarding their neighbors to themselves. And for our president to pursue a directed and consistent policy towards Russia "walk the forest." Do not teach us how to live, you yourself do not like it when amers teach you ??????
            1. Cavas
              +5
              December 21 2012
              Quote: Fergus
              Do not teach us how to live

              Tit deviens responsable pour tpujows.de ce que tit as apprivoise.!

              We are responsible for those who have tamed us.. Antoine de Saint-Exupery
              1. Yarbay
                -1
                December 22 2012
                Quote: Cavas
                We are responsible for those who have tamed. Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                ))))))))))))))) +++++++++++++++!
                Bravo!!!))))))))))))
            2. +2
              December 22 2012
              Fergus

              Quote: Fergus
              And the main thing for us is that people like YOU keep their "evil" intentions regarding their neighbors to themselves.


              and I - Russian - do not care.


              Quote: Fergus
              And for our president to pursue a directed and consistent policy towards Russia "walk the forest."


              Your country, --- the geopolitical mouse that Russia and the USA are playing! Be quiet while the elders talk, we will deal with your problems afterwards.


              Quote: Fergus
              Do not teach us how to live


              Yes, actually - go through the forest.


              Quote: Fergus
              you yourself do not like when you teach amers ??????


              Russians laugh - the last. out of habit.
              1. Fergus
                +1
                December 22 2012
                Karlsonn
                Your country, --- the geopolitical mouse that Russia and the USA are playing! Be quiet while the elders talk, we will deal with your problems afterwards.

                Don't do it, what do you care about us? They made it clear to you that our interests do not coincide with yours. And your "evil" laughter is rather disgusting! The attitude to us as to you down there somewhere expressed to the "midgets" very clearly and clearly shows how much the disease "Napoleon in pants" struck you.
                Who did you decide to talk to there? You have lagged behind the civilized world for at least 30 years, further beyond Moscow begin impassable "swamps" from where you came from.
                I said everything! Two nationalists do not belong on a boat - Bolivar should carry one, clearly not YOU. People like you walk the streets baldly shaved, with a swastika on their hands and with hatred of all "non-Russians" in their eyes. I have seen such people, "bazaar" with them in vain, for them no arguments are arguments, they think of themselves as an "empire", "great", this is the same as communicating with the Poles, they also have a bzhik on their own individuality, so to speak, "Independence" , but what unites us with them is a common dislike for YOU, more precisely, for people like YOU (it is not shameful for me to communicate with ordinary Russian guys). I pray to Allah that the evil that you accumulate in yourself you throw out ONLY on the forums, and do not shed "blood" in any way!
                And remember! we are all people, equal before God, only he can judge us
                not you
                NOT YOU gave us education, writing
                NOT YOU decide who we are - mouse, midgets
                Aren't you sitting on Olympus to decide the fate of millions
                NOT YOU built factories
                YOU were not at war with the Germans (my child reached Berlin itself, and now I’m even afraid that everyone will take him to Moscow for the victory parade)
                So who gave you the right to insult me, who lives on my land, just because my fellow countrymen "let you down", so ask them, do not transfer your insufficiency from a sore head to a healthy one. And the fact that YOU marked my "malicious" comments only shows what a bad person YOU are, purposefully chose all my comments, minus, crap, showed who you are, a man-hater, I do not even doubt that YOUR attitude towards non-Russians in Russia, I have in view of the indigenous inhabitants (Chuvash, Buryat, Chukchi, etc.) in total, more than 90 nationalities live in Russia, and I am sure YOU treat them as well, for people like YOU, Putin's appeal about the consolidation of society, the core of which would be the Russian culture and Russian speech are ABSOLUTELY empty, like peas against a wall.
                And I’m literally rephrasing Putin’s words - you are a generation lost, embittered first of all by yourself! Understand this, I am ready to talk with you, do not understand, the main thing is not to throw your anger out into the streets!
                Go in peace, I let you go!
                1. -2
                  December 23 2012
                  1.
                  Quote: Fergus
                  You have lagged behind the civilized world for at least 30 years, further beyond Moscow begin impassable "swamps" from where you came from

                  You are not far from us. wink
                  2.
                  Quote: Fergus
                  People like you walk the streets baldly shaved, with a swastika on their hands and with hatred of all "non-Russians" in their eyes.

                  Do you want to remember when you went with knives driving the Russians out of their homes, or wasn’t it?
                  Quote: Fergus
                  NOT YOU gave us education, writing
                  NOT YOU decide who we are - mouse, midgets
                  Aren't you sitting on Olympus to decide the fate of millions
                  NOT YOU built factories

                  as I understand it, your merits once you speak in such a tone.
                  Quote: Fergus
                  So who gave you the right to insult me, who lives on my land, just because you were "put down" by my fellow countrymen

                  because of people like you you will always get over the ears smile
                  YES AND LATEST: DON'T FLAT YOURSELF GO TO THE URILA NEAR BEFORE EMPTYING! laughing
        2. Fergus
          0
          December 21 2012
          I would add after the phrase
          the main thing is that Russia has an army and navy, then
          we will show you kuz'kin mother. This is so typical of Russians
          1. -1
            December 22 2012
            Fergus
            and what? request
    2. Misantrop
      +6
      December 21 2012
      Quote: tekinoral
      Why does everyone turn away from Russia initially ask yourself and think
      They asked. And they thought. Askedwhy? and in response they heard: "This is business, nothing personal." AND wondered, and on horseradish SUCH friends, what kind of green candy wrapper are sold to anyone? It’s easier and safer to hire a whore - she will work out how much they paid and she won’t fill her relatives
      1. +1
        December 21 2012
        Misantrop

        Quote: Misantrop
        They asked. And they thought. They asked why? and in response they heard: "This is business, nothing personal"


        so for sure, we have been rushing for too long with the duty of alliance, as with the sacred; as practice has shown, this was a mistake.
        It is only necessary to observe our own interests - the interests of Russia, to take into account the position of our friendly countries (but only to take into account), ---- let the rest go through the forest!
        1. Fergus
          -1
          December 21 2012
          for too long we have worn with the duty of alliance, as with the sacred

          do not rush, this is the fruit of your sick imagination, and we are all sane people, glory to Allah, and we understand that this is nonsense, an attempt by Russia to "keep" a face, like she (Russia) means something to us or has some weight. We don’t need anything from you, just let us develop the republic ourselves (we are Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and others). Your interests do not coincide with our interests, we have different roads, everyone scattered like ships at sea. We want to be friends with the USA and that's it!
          1. +2
            December 22 2012
            Quote: Fergus
            don’t rush, it’s the fruit of your sick imagination,


            let me, the communist-chauvinist-imperialist choose for yourself.


            Quote: Fergus
            and we all glory to Allah are sane people and we understand that this is nonsense, an attempt by Russia to "keep" a face, like she (Russia) means something to us or has some weight.


            where are we now, and where are you?


            Quote: Fergus
            We don’t need anything from you, just let us develop the republic ourselves (we are Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and others).


            We are Russia !!! woe to the vanquished! It will be as beneficial to Russia! If you have to mane bend again!

            geopolitical mice - sit quietly when elephants pass by !!!


            Quote: Fergus
            We want to be friends with the United States and Basta!


            nude, Gaddafi and Saddam were friends .......
      2. Fergus
        -3
        December 21 2012
        Misantrop
        Your logic is strange! How to be friends with you, if at any time you can throw? You can even stick a knife in the back, I have no doubt! To hell with us such a drunk, inconsistent partner, which is easier to quote:
        It’s easier and safer to hire a whore - she will work out how much they paid and she won’t fill her relatives
        You treat your neighbors like whores, we have an adequate attitude towards you!
        1. +1
          December 22 2012
          Fergus

          Quote: Fergus
          Your logic is strange!


          You taught her to us.


          Quote: Fergus
          How to be friends with you, if at any time you can throw?


          from you traitors it’s strange to hear that.


          Quote: Fergus
          You can even stick a knife in the back, I have no doubt!


          while we take out the knife from the back.


          Quote: Fergus
          To hell with us such a drunk, inconsistent partner,


          and to hell with us Russians another banana republic? all the more small and inadequate?


          Quote: Fergus
          You treat your neighbors like whores


          what neighbors, such and attitude.


          Quote: Fergus
          You treat your neighbors like whores, we have an adequate attitude towards you!


          Yes, we do not care about what all sorts of midgets think.
  31. sergskak
    +2
    December 21 2012
    Oh, come on! A frame was arranged here: I want to, I don't want to.
    1. 0
      December 21 2012
      right, all to hell, only one legacy from which it is very difficult to get rid of ..
  32. pag-uralmir
    +5
    December 21 2012
    For me, so generally not to let them in, if they are so literate and educated let them raise their economy, and we can do just fine without them. How much money they take out of Russia, and how many diseases, drugs they import, crime, etc., etc. I have not seen a single engineer, scientist, professor among them. Nasvay to chew and sell melons. They will also teach us, they gave them education, work, infrastructure under the Soviet regime ... they learned and fed on their own heads. Lock the border, the head of the FMS on trial for such a policy. How many of us are, we ourselves will be able to feed and clothe. And they bring drugs here, poison our youth and take their place in life. Already openly declare that the Russians you will not live here, this is like their land. There is also the Caucasus adding fuel to the fire. He lives on subsidies from Russian regions, both Chechnya and Dagestan, and with them. Nor can they understand that if it were not for the Russians, the civilized Europeans would have moved them to the reservations from which they would have left with passes. As they did with the Indians of America - these civilized Europeans arrived in sowing. America. Of the 20 million Indians, about 800 thousand remained and they live on the reservation. The Russians united peoples, created empires, unions in which these minorities lived, gave education, medicine, and brought their poets into people who would not have gone further than the aul without the Russian language. They say correctly: "Russian" barbarians "rushed in and left behind schools, libraries, museums, theaters, and universities." Take Lithuania and Latvia, the Russians came to build factories, factories ... gave jobs, now Europeans came to them, gave loans, and took jobs, how do they live now? The rent is 200-300 euros, did not pay for 2-3 months and went outside to live. Here is civilization, the market ... what are not barbarians! For me, this is how we united with Belarus and Eastern Ukraine, and we have enough land, workers, and scientists ... And all the rest as they want!
    1. sergskak
      +2
      December 21 2012
      I liked the position of Lukashenko (I am not a fan): Lukashenko spoke out against Uzbekistan’s membership in the CSTO

      President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko invites the CSTO countries to consider the issue of Uzbekistan’s membership in the organization. He made a statement 26 October at a meeting with members of the Council of the CSTO Parliamentary Assembly in Minsk.

      “I recently sent my thoughts to the president of Russia. We need to make a decision on Uzbekistan. Because the triple game that Uzbekistan is playing today does not allow him to be in the Collective Security Treaty Organization, ”Lukashenko said.

      He stressed that Uzbekistan has not yet ratified a single significant document adopted by the CSTO. “If you want to cooperate with us, please adhere to the rules that exist in the CSTO and those rules that we all approved,” the Belarusian leader said.

      Recall that the CSTO includes seven countries: Russia, Belarus, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.
      Source: IA REX
      1. +4
        December 21 2012
        Lukashenko bluntly said what the rest were embarrassed to say. Or didn’t want to. Or they couldn’t. And one cannot disagree with him.
        1. sergskak
          +2
          December 21 2012
          Today he dangles back and forth, and tomorrow "democratic doves of peace" will fly to him and ask to share information about the structure and principles of decision-making, let's say? I wonder how much he will sell this information? In other ways, we'll see! And most importantly, he didn't ask the Uzbeks! just a king!
          1. 0
            December 21 2012
            And most importantly, the Uzbeks did not ask! - What for? Tsar!
    2. Fergus
      0
      December 21 2012
      You express yourself smoothly, dear! Yes, only "bullshit" you carry. We did not come to you, but you came to us, first the tsar, then the Bolsheviks. There was a time when the British wanted to steer here, but they didn't! We were educated, who gave what to whom, before you our culture was flourishing (Avicina, Alisher Navoi, Abai and many others). They clothed us, shod them ha-ha. Dress yourself and drive into the reservation, we really need you. Know the ignorant engineers, our scientists, I will list them especially for you, I will not be too lazy, the clever ones went:
      Zahiriddin Muhammad Babur (1483-1530)
      Alisher Navoi (1441-1501)
      Mirzo Ulugbek (1394-1449)
      Amir Timur (1336-1405)
      Bahouddin Naqshband (1318-1389)
      Jalaliddin Manguberdi (1198-1231)
      Omar Khayyam (1048-1131)
      Abu Ali Ibn Sina (980-1037)
      Abu Rayhan Al-Beruni (973-1048)
      Imam al-Bukhari (810-870)
      Ahmad al-Fergani (798-861)
      Musa al-Khwarizmi (783-850)
      Mikhail Mikhailovich Protodyakonov (September 22 (October 4) 1874 (Orenburg) - April 5, 1930 (Tashkent)) our outstanding Uzbek scientist was buried in Botkino with us, devoted his scientific life to the study of Central Asia
      Alexander Sergeevich Uklonsky (October 23 (November 5), 1888, Gomel - February 16, 1972, Tashkent, buried at the Botkin cemetery) - an outstanding Soviet scientist - geologist, minerologist and geochemist, academician of the Academy of Sciences of the Uzbek SSR (1943), professor at Tashkent University and Tashkent Polytechnic Institute. He lived and died in Tashkent.
      Gani Arifkhanovich Mavlyanov (January 15, 1910 - 1988) - Doctor of Geological and Mineralogical Sciences, Academician of the Academy of Sciences of Uzbekistan.
      Evdokia Mikhailovna Butovskaya (1917-1982) - a famous Soviet and Uzbek seismologist. She was the head of the Tashkent seismic station (from 1946 to 1959), from 1959 to 1963 she was the head of the Seismology Department at the Institute of Mathematics. V.I. Romanovskogo Academy of Sciences of the Uzbek SSR, from 1963 to 1982, headed the Department of Geophysics at the Institute of Geology and Geophysics named after Kh.M. Abdullaev, Academy of Sciences of the Uzbek SSR [2].
      Abid Muratovich Akramkhodjaev (October 12, 1920 - 1996) - Honored Scientist of Uzbekistan, Doctor of Geological and Mineralogical Sciences.
      Ibragim Hamrabaevich Hamrabaev (May 5, 1920, Uzgen, Osh Oblast - June 29, 2002, Tashkent) - Doctor of Geological and Mineralogical Sciences, Academician of the Academy of Sciences of Uzbekistan. Director of the Institute of Geology and Geophysics of the Academy of Sciences of Uzbekistan.
      Boris Aleksandrovich Beder (04.08.1908/31.12.1989/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Honored Geologist of Uzbekistan, the discoverer of Tashkent mineral water.
      Nikolai Nikolaevich Nazarov - (1908, Tashkent - 1947, Tashkent) mathematician, professor of SAGU
      Tashmukhamed Alievich Sarymsakov (September 10, 1915 - 1995) - Doctor of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, Professor
      Sagdy Khasanovich Sirazhdinov (May 10, 1920 - 1988) - Doctor of Physics and Mathematics, academician of the Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Uzbekistan.
      * Vasil Kabulovich Kabulov - Uzbek mathematician and mechanic, academician of the Academy of Sciences of Uzbekistan since 1966 (since 1962 - corresponding member)
      * Sunyaev, Rashid Alievich - an outstanding Soviet and Russian astrophysicist, full member of the RAS (1992), was born in Tashkent in 1943.
      Pyotr Fokich Borovsky (1863-1932) - A well-known Tashkent doctor, worked since 1892 in the central military clinical hospital of Tashkent, was a senior doctor in the surgical department. He made a great contribution to medicine.
      Vakhidov Vasit Vakhidovich - (1917 - 1994) An outstanding surgeon, scientist, founder of the school of specialized surgical care in Uzbekistan
      and many others .... this is not a banana republic for you, not some African tribe.
      1. sergskak
        +2
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Fergus
        There was a time when the British wanted to steer here, so they didn’t! Education was given to us, who gave what to whom, we had our own culture in its prime (Avitsina, Alisher Navoi, Abay and many others). They clothed us, shod haha. Dress yourself and drive yourself into the reservation, we really need you.
        In short, they gave you everything a little bit, but rather you gave it to everyone. Have you decided when you were independent? You have listed, I will take note, although I myself know.
        1. Fergus
          0
          December 21 2012
          sergskak
          And in what century did you live? When everyone was already flying, riding trains, did you still have serfdom?
          And we have always been independent, and 70 years of communism - so it's not 300 years under the Tatars.
          1. Misantrop
            +1
            December 21 2012
            Quote: Fergus
            When everyone was already flying, riding trains, did you still have serfdom?

            It seems that the very remnants of education are mixed up in my head ... What will happen next? ... what
            1. Fergus
              0
              December 21 2012
              it was figurative, I just wanted to emphasize that Russia has not gone so far from us in its development
          2. sergskak
            +2
            December 21 2012
            1861, abolition of serfdom. What do you mean by this? (I will not focus on what you are poking at me). And what happened in "Uzbekistan" Remind me if you know. Maybe there is an industrial rise? Remind me please.
            1. Fergus
              -1
              December 21 2012
              and what happened in Russia, maybe industrial take-off, please remind. You judge us from your bell tower, and we judge ours. If you want to insult us, then come on, I won’t reach into my pocket for a word.
              Who do you compare Uzbekistan and Russia, who is cooler, who quickly moved to a tractor from a stick?
              Stupid, but for you the descendant of great Russia is probably also humiliating, if only because of this:
              Metro (the first steam-powered line launched - 1863)
              Bicycle (Dandy Horzes mass production - 1864; patent - 1866, Pierre Lallement)
              Open-hearth furnace (first built - 1864)
              and in Russia they just abolished serfdom and learned how to drink tea from a saucer
          3. +1
            December 21 2012
            Quote: Fergus
            When everyone was already flying, riding trains, did you still have serfdom?

            Serfdom in Russia was canceled 19.2.1861 of the year (for comparison, Croatia 8.5.1848, Saxony: 17.3.1832, Bosnia and Herzegovina: 1918, Afghanistan: 1923).

            The Tsarskoye Selo Railroad is the first public railway in Russia (until the opening of the Warsaw-Vienna Railway at 1840, it was the only one in the country, 6-I in the world) Built to provide railway communication between Tsarskoye Selo Station in St. Petersburg, Tsarskoye Selo and Pavlovsk.
            The decree of Emperor Nicholas I on the construction of the Tsarskoye Selo Railway was promulgated on April 15 1836 of the year. Construction began on 1 on May 1836.
            The road is open on October 30 (November 11) of the 1837 of the year - 24 of the year before the abolition of serfdom in Russia.

            In the modern academic literature on aircraft manufacturing, the most widespread belief is that the first aircraft that was able to independently make a stable controlled horizontal flight was the Flyer-1, built by the brothers Orville and Wilbur Wright in the United States. The first flight of the aircraft in history was carried out on December 17 of the 1903 of the year - 42 of the year after the abolition of serfdom in Russia.
          4. sergskak
            +1
            December 21 2012
            Fergus, I don’t put any pluses or minuses if I’m talking with a person. God will judge. I understand your opinion. I’ll go to sleep before that. I’ll add the only thing: whoever gives your president more money will walk him!
            1. Fergus
              +1
              December 21 2012
              sergskak
              I support, I also do not put minuses, pluses, because this is a dispute, and your opinion is also clear to me, and since we understood each other, then the most reasonable thing would be to stay away from each other and not teach "democracy" we do not like this as well as and you, but unlike you, we do not have a "nuclear" club in our bosom, but they would talk differently
              Goodnight!
              1. sergskak
                0
                December 21 2012
                FergusI hope to see you in the discussion of a mutually enjoyable article for our peoples!
      2. +6
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Fergus
        and many others .... this is not a banana republic for you, not some African tribe.

        That's right, not a banana republic. But now, in fact, all of Central and Central Asia is fighting for this list.
        Zahiriddin Muhammad Babur (1483-1530)
        Alisher Navoi (1441-1501)
        Mirzo Ulugbek (1394-1449)
        Amir Timur (1336-1405)
        Bahouddin Naqshband (1318-1389)
        Jalaliddin Manguberdi (1198-1231)
        Omar Khayyam (1048-1131)
        Abu Ali Ibn Sina (980-1037)
        Abu Rayhan Al-Beruni (973-1048)
        Imam al-Bukhari (810-870)
        Ahmad al-Fergani (798-861)
        Musa al-Khwarizmi (783-850)

        Especially for Avicen, Alisher Navoi, Khoyama. Every Asian country, including the Persians and Arabs, shouts that it is their sons.

        Now on the second list;
        Mikhail Mikhailovich Protodyakonov (September 22 (October 4) 1874 (Orenburg) - April 5, 1930 (Tashkent)) our outstanding Uzbek scientist was buried in Botkino with us, devoted his scientific life to the study of Central Asia
        Alexander Sergeevich Uklonsky (October 23 (November 5), 1888, Gomel - February 16, 1972, Tashkent, buried at the Botkin cemetery) - an outstanding Soviet scientist - geologist, minerologist and geochemist, academician of the Academy of Sciences of the Uzbek SSR (1943), professor at Tashkent University and Tashkent Polytechnic Institute. He lived and died in Tashkent.
        Gani Arifkhanovich Mavlyanov (January 15, 1910 - 1988) - Doctor of Geological and Mineralogical Sciences, Academician of the Academy of Sciences of Uzbekistan.
        Evdokia Mikhailovna Butovskaya (1917-1982) - a famous Soviet and Uzbek seismologist. She was the head of the Tashkent seismic station (from 1946 to 1959), from 1959 to 1963 she was the head of the Seismology Department at the Institute of Mathematics. V.I. Romanovskogo Academy of Sciences of the Uzbek SSR, from 1963 to 1982, headed the Department of Geophysics at the Institute of Geology and Geophysics named after Kh.M. Abdullaev, Academy of Sciences of the Uzbek SSR [2].
        Abid Muratovich Akramkhodjaev (October 12, 1920 - 1996) - Honored Scientist of Uzbekistan, Doctor of Geological and Mineralogical Sciences.
        Ibragim Hamrabaevich Hamrabaev (May 5, 1920, Uzgen, Osh Oblast - June 29, 2002, Tashkent) - Doctor of Geological and Mineralogical Sciences, Academician of the Academy of Sciences of Uzbekistan. Director of the Institute of Geology and Geophysics of the Academy of Sciences of Uzbekistan.
        Boris Aleksandrovich Beder (04.08.1908/31.12.1989/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Honored Geologist of Uzbekistan, the discoverer of Tashkent mineral water.
        Nikolai Nikolaevich Nazarov - (1908, Tashkent - 1947, Tashkent) mathematician, professor of SAGU
        Tashmukhamed Alievich Sarymsakov (September 10, 1915 - 1995) - Doctor of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, Professor
        Sagdy Khasanovich Sirazhdinov (May 10, 1920 - 1988) - Doctor of Physics and Mathematics, academician of the Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Uzbekistan.
        * Vasil Kabulovich Kabulov - Uzbek mathematician and mechanic, academician of the Academy of Sciences of Uzbekistan since 1966 (since 1962 - corresponding member)
        * Sunyaev, Rashid Alievich - an outstanding Soviet and Russian astrophysicist, full member of the RAS (1992), was born in Tashkent in 1943.
        Pyotr Fokich Borovsky (1863-1932) - A well-known Tashkent doctor, worked since 1892 in the central military clinical hospital of Tashkent, was a senior doctor in the surgical department. He made a great contribution to medicine.
        Vakhidov Vasit Vakhidovich - (1917 - 1994) An outstanding surgeon, scientist, founder of the school of specialized surgical care in Uzbekistan
        All these are children of the Russian Empire and the USSR, especially since the majority, the native Russians who came to Uzbekistan themselves or the descendants of the Russian arrived, who built both the Academy of Sciences and schools and hospitals and taught unconditionally talented and very competent national scientists. Certainly not a banana republic with such a legacy of the Russian Empire.
        1. Fergus
          +1
          December 21 2012
          One can say about you like that, starting from Pushkin (an African child) to the descendants of a German settlement, Russified foreigners, Jews, for example, here’s a little list
          Bruce, Biron, Ekaterina Skavronskaya, Catherine the Great, Bagration, Nesselrode, Loris-Melikov, Witte ..
          and whose heritage it is, and who you are, to poke us. I listed the people who were born and raised in Central Asia, and where did they get this homework from here
          1. +3
            December 21 2012
            Quote: Fergus

            One can say about you like that, starting from Pushkin (an African child) to the descendants of a German settlement, Russified foreigners, Jews, for example, here’s a little list
            Bruce, Biron, Ekaterina Skavronskaya, Catherine the Great, Bagration, Nesselrode, Loris-Melikov, Witte ..
            and whose heritage it is, and who you are, to poke us. I listed the people who were born and raised in Central Asia, and where did they get this homework from here

            So we say that we empire and all the flags to visit us. It's you who are talking about some kind of exclusivity of the Uzbeks, they say themselves with a mustache, that is, with skullcaps. And what are we, we are simple, imperial, and all came to us under the wing of the titular nation.
            1. Fergus
              0
              December 21 2012
              So I am interpreting that we are the descendants of Genghis Khan and the Great Tamerlane and all the flags are visiting us, and you are here pushing a speech about your exclusivity, title. And they come to you because you are terribly lazy, you don't want to work, neither study, nor give birth. That's really the saying "Ivan lies on the stove and puffs". And our president is only g ... sty, they learned the "damned Rus" on our heads and sent them to us.
      3. -2
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Fergus
        Education was given to us, who gave what to whom, we have had our own culture in its prime

        I heard a story that the Russians taught you to write while standing. not?
        1. Fergus
          -1
          December 21 2012
          and I heard a story that Russians before Peter I walked unshaven, and wrote and washed from one tub, no?
          1. 0
            December 21 2012
            Quote: Fergus
            and I heard a story that Russians before Peter I walked unshaven, and wrote and washed from one tub, no?

            Regarding beards, you are right, our way of life obliged men to wear beards, and as regards one tub, I dare to assure you that even the most seedy Russian peasant had two baths. One in "black" for herbal treatments, the second white, directly for hygiene.
            There is even such an anecdote when two Frenchmen are discussing Russians and one says to another: ".... These Russians are so dirty that they wash in the bath every week, and every day they wash in tubs .." This is true. And how was it with the farmers in the conditions of lack of water? Basically, you washed yourself with clay and washed yourself too? Or am I confusing something?
            1. Fergus
              0
              December 21 2012
              Then there were no problems with water. And do not forget to wash you in a bathhouse we (Muslims in the face of Arabs) taught us that before you really walked in bast shoes, bearded, succumbing, with a cunning in your eyes, wiped stones with pebbles. Or am I confusing something?
              1. +1
                December 21 2012
                Quote: Fergus
                And do not forget to wash you in a bathhouse we (Muslims represented by Arabs) taught

                Well, tell me in more detail when, where and how did the Uzbeks, in the person of Russian Arabs, learn to wash in a bath?
                1. Fergus
                  0
                  December 21 2012
                  Sorry, I didn’t write in the park. I offer my sincere apologies - Russians / Scythians (really washed) primordially washed in something similar to a bath, but the principle and ritual of "bath" came from the Arabs and Turks.
          2. +2
            December 21 2012
            Quote: Fergus
            walked unshaven, and wrote and washed from one tub

            unshaven - yes, there was a tradition of wearing a beard, Peter, by the way, brutally uprooted. And it was precisely BEARD, and not half-naughty unshaven.
            We didn’t wash in the tubs - this is European fashion, but the bathhouse was respected!
      4. 0
        December 22 2012
        Your gap between medieval scholars and Soviet scholars is indicative.
  33. proswetow.
    0
    December 21 2012
    Karimov behaves what is called - both yours and ours. On the one hand, his clan has property in the West and the Americans can at any time block the accounts and property of both Karimov himself and his family. On the other hand, quarreling with Russia and other countries on the Collective Security Treaty Organization is also unprofitable, in Afghanistan there are Taliban, who at any moment after the Americans leave, can decide to go north, and the whole post-Soviet Central Asia is on the way. And you can count on help if something happens only from the CSTO. But it seems Karimov decided to take the protection of the Americans and is increasingly moving away from the CSTO.
    1. +1
      December 21 2012
      And you can count on help if something happens only from the CSTO. - Russia plays a leading role in the Collective Security Treaty Organization; therefore, Russia will be the first to help in any case.
      1. Misantrop
        +1
        December 21 2012
        Yeah, like "we'll shit under your door, and then you will wash our entire entrance." Help, after all, it can be different, you can sweep away the invading forces with a tactical nuclear charge, since the territory is not friendly
  34. stranik72
    +2
    December 21 2012
    Not everything is clear about Uzbekistan, Russia, represented by its politicians and the business elite (which, in principle, is the same) has made so many mistakes that "Mama do not cry." "The greed of the frayer ruined" this about Russia's attitude to Uzbekistan. There are examples in Chirchik ARP, few people know that this is a joint venture between Russia and Uzbekistan, and first of all, Russia did everything to prevent this enterprise from working. And this process was supervised at that time, it was 3-4 years ago, personally by the manturs. There are other facts as well. As for the Uzbek migrants, gentlemen writhing out of themselves zealots of the Russian world, look around and at yourself in the mirror, most of you are only capable of grimacing at the monitor, you refuse to serve in the Russian army, to fight Caucasians on the streets of Russian cities is too gut to drive I am afraid of drunks and drug addicts, I am generally silent about the ability to create something worthwhile, so that monkeys from monitors, they are migrants, including from Uzbekistan, equip Russia, and clear its streets of garbage, which is mostly filled with "indigenous hares" ... ...
    1. -1
      December 21 2012
      stranik72, well, right now, they will zaminusut you ... And in Chirchik there was also a helicopter repair plant ...
    2. Misantrop
      0
      December 21 2012
      Quote: stranik72
      First of all, Russia has done everything to ensure that this company does not work. And he led this process at that time, it was about 3..4 years ago personally manturs.

      Too shy to ask, Manturov - the standard of a hereditary Rusak? Well, about the army, well, yes, I did not serve in it, it did not happen. After school and until retirement - only in the Navy. Doesn’t it go to serve in the army? laughing
      1. +1
        December 21 2012
        Quote: Misantrop
        Doesn’t it go to serve in the army?

        And the third call to aviation .... and there is space nearby. lol
        1. Misantrop
          +2
          December 21 2012
          Nafig nafig that aviation, I grew up in the air garrison stop And in space we already regularly launched ICBMs at firing wink
  35. +3
    December 21 2012
    UzRus,
    I grew up in the 90s, I saw a lot of bad and little good, as for the explanation of why nationalism in Russia is growing at such a pace, I will simply answer, I have earned it, be kind enough to return home, but no, you want to stay (I'm not talking only about your people), I do not deny that Uzbekistan is a wonderful people in its kind, but at the moment (for me personally), almost all the peoples of Central Asia, arouse suspicion and contempt and, of course, you are not to blame, but we (the Russian people) are no longer to explain when they give the green light to this issue, they will not look at these things there.
    I recently talked with a Kyrgyz like who ran into our girl, in general, in response I received, "that you are looking at a Russian pig ..." I have no idea what happened to him later, but I left him lying. 30% of crimes in Russia are committed by citizens of Central Asia, why are our crimes not enough for us? In general, in order not to get personal and not hurt your feelings, I think I will put an end to this, but having cases of clashes (from my life), I more and more agree with those who are for the forceful solution of this issue, you will forgive ...
    1. 0
      December 21 2012
      I recently talked with a Kyrgyz like who ran into our girl, in general, in response I received, "that you are looking at a Russian pig ..." I have no idea what happened to him later, but I left him lying. - That's why you have to give a tambourine !!! For everything else that you said - your opinion is your opinion, under ANY circumstances, I do not pass on to the person by virtue of my education. I just want to say again that there are enough creatures in any nation and their crimes only worsen the opinion of people from the SA. As Russian, I understand you, that has already become painful, probably I would have behaved the same way. Yours faithfully!
      1. +1
        December 21 2012
        UzRus,
        You, too, can and should be understood as Russian, but you must agree, at the present time, having such cunning partners in the person of the current president of Uzbekistan is too big a luxury for Russia!
        Such renegades are too expensive for our country!
        1. +2
          December 22 2012
          I definitely agree!
  36. Fergus
    -9
    December 21 2012
    My personal opinion:
    Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and all the former Soviet republics need to create their own union to oppose Russia. All our troubles come from Russia, we don't have enough of our own "beys", so Karimov and Nazarbayev were also "run in", "taught" the dirtiest tricks of conducting a "policy" of pressure, spread rot, where do you think? right - in Russia! They diluted our kumostvo, kinship and other components of corruption with their "Russian" slovenliness and eternal drunkenness (as the song "forever young and drunk" is sung, this is the motto of "Russians" in life). In our country, according to the Koran, you cannot drink, every Uzbek feeds, wets clothes from 2 to 3 children, will never leave their parents, and the "Russians", as they grow out of diapers, abandon their mom, dad, or send their children to a nursing home can easily be thrown into the trash can. And this people teaches us how to live, accuses us of uncleanliness. It is necessary to take the following urgent measures:
    1 Close the border with Russia
    2 State to declare English as the second language (second after national)
    3 To adopt the best practices of economic management in the West
    4 Consolidate into a kind of union to defend on "equal" their national interests
    5 If possible, join NATO
    As a result, our republics will receive a powerful ally in the face of the West, sales markets, the convergence of our common goals, including not letting the Russian Federation humiliate, offend us, remove any "crap" like Ravshan and Dzhamshut (this is a spit on all Tajiks), frankly Russians in a priori they consider us all, and we are more than 50 mln (Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Tajiks, Kirghiz, etc.), to put it mildly, "natives" and they consider themselves clean and hardworking. Although life shows us that it is not. There is a demographic crisis in Russia - Russians do not want to give birth, as they say "to breed poverty", it is better to sit on the neck of their parents or grandparents and live on their pension. We have a lot of such people in Tashkent, they don't work anywhere, from the age of 12 they begin to smoke, drink, and go to the street. This is a clear and obvious sign of a "Russian" person, lying on the stove and puffing, and coming up with klikuhi for other nations.
    We must drive them to the neck, let them be further from us, the further the better. They say in Moscow, 20-40 people live in an apartment, the stench, unsanitary conditions, and go to the hostel with the Russians, 3-4 live there, and the stench, mess, unsanitary conditions, syringes, empty bottles are like a drug hurricane gone through. And who is "dirty" here, and who sits on who's neck? Definitely not Kazakhs, their oil and gas in bulk, and wheat, Uzbeks? Uzbeks have cotton, gold is the 4th in the world in terms of mining, uranium is all theirs, from cowards to cars, Kyrgyz? so we will help them, Azerbaijanis? do they have a lot of oil, Tajiks? Rakhmanov as Oskarov in Russia needs to be sent with a kick and given work at home to his own, to build factories and we will all be in a chocolate. And with Russia, there are only problems ...
    This is my personal opinion, I hope that soon new and ambitious leaders will come to replace Karimov and Nazarbayev, who will rigidly defend national interests and will be able to implement the above points, because there will be no health to be friends with Russia, and the liver is not eternal.
    1. Misantrop
      +4
      December 21 2012
      Quote: Fergus
      I hope that soon new and ambitious leaders will replace Karimov and Nazarbayev.

      ... who will at least be able to read. And count (at least on the fingers). And then such young, ambitious (that's just - the Georgians, they entered this path a little earlier) not so long ago "noted" in Odessa. These few young rams decided to improve their financial affairs by robbing one of the wealthy houses in the city center. They chose the one in front of which there were the most expensive foreign cars and ... broke into the regional police department laughing When these morons were asked if they had seen at least a sign, they admitted that they did not know how to read Russian (the sign was on the move, but these subtle talents were similar to the subtleties). This is not a banter, but a real case from recent
      1. Fergus
        0
        December 21 2012
        You don't have to read and write in Russian, we have our own language and our own script. And with this example you will not offend us at all, he gave an example from his cowards, so to speak, he got it out of the bunk. We go our own way, and our generation learns, works, and keep your "malice" to yourself.
        1. Misantrop
          0
          December 21 2012
          So the Georgians were also not obliged, on which they took laughing By the way, and the zagashnik in shorts (by the way, it is written with "w") is this your new invention? Serious scientific development good
          1. Fergus
            0
            December 21 2012
            Funny, can I go to the corner and laugh laughing
            1. 0
              December 22 2012
              Quote: Fergus
              Funny, can I go to the corner and laugh


              we laugh bully You - adapt.
        2. +1
          December 22 2012
          Quote: Fergus
          we have our own language and our own written language.


          which one? Uzbek?
          the Uzbek alphabet - no, I have not heard
    2. 0
      December 21 2012
      smile
      Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and all the former Soviet republics need to create their own union to oppose Russia. All our troubles come from Russia, we don't have enough of our own "beys", so Karimov and Nazarbayev were also "run in", "taught" the dirtiest tricks of conducting a "policy" of pressure, spread rot, where do you think? right - in Russia! They diluted our kumostvo, kinship and other components of corruption with their "Russian" slovenliness and eternal drunkenness (as the song "forever young and drunk" is sung, this is the motto of "Russians" in life). In our country, according to the Koran, you cannot drink, every Uzbek feeds, wets clothes from 2 to 3 children, will never leave their parents, and the "Russians", as they grow out of diapers, abandon their mom, dad, or send their children to a nursing home can easily be thrown into the trash can.
      I laugh sincerely at your thesis, you are flawed smile. Russians don’t do this to their children and parents, but scum has no nation!
      And about the blame and Russia LONG TIME !!!! FLAG YOU HAND !!
      1. Fergus
        0
        December 21 2012
        I feel sorry for you, a generation lost in embittered primarily on myself
        1. 0
          December 22 2012
          Fergus

          Quote: Fergus
          I feel sorry for you


          aa hold me seven laughing geopolitical conscientious mouse has appeared!
    3. +3
      December 21 2012
      Fergus, you just offended me as a Russian person. Everything that was written about Russians does not apply to ALL Russians. We fuck the West do not need. We need to be friends with our neighbors, especially since we have been one state for many years. Joining a CA alliance is also good. Regarding the fact that young and ambitious ones will replace the existing leaders - I'm afraid that not everyone will live to see this. Everything else right now will be in the comments from other forum users ...
      1. Fergus
        0
        December 21 2012
        UzRus. So you yourself can see what opinion about us (I am not Uzbek, Tatar) in Russia. Why should we be friends with them, because they, after all, also judge an entire nation by the actions of one or two "dirty" Uzbeks? To be humiliated. Putin said yesterday only at a teleconference "that amers humiliate them, something like we also need to spank them" (literally, you can read it somewhere on the website). And the same opinion. Why do we need humiliation from the Russians? Let them walk through the forest, close the borders, we will not be lost, we have a hardworking people, they go to earn money as much as 1000 km. And the opinion of the rest of the members of the forum, I know and you too - an angry scream against us.
        1. 0
          December 22 2012
          Fergus

          Quote: Fergus
          So you yourself see what opinion about us (I myself am not an Uzbek, a Tatar) in Russia


          What?


          Quote: Fergus
          Why should we be friends with them, because they, after all, also judge an entire nation by the actions of one or two "dirty" Uzbeks?


          if you meet my friend - Uyghur - Rustam, he will spank you in the ass, and if you run into me laughing I am the tactile friendship of peoples.




          Quote: Fergus
          Let them go through the forest, close their borders, not be lost, we have hardworking people, they go to earn money for 1000 miles.


          nude nude.
    4. +4
      December 21 2012
      Quote: Fergus
      Russians a priori consider us all, and we are more than 50 mln (Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Tajiks, Kyrgyz, etc.), to put it mildly, "natives"


      A native is a word meaning "a native of some locality", formed by adding the pronoun form tu (t) and the now extinct noun zemts, which had the meaning "inhabitant" and associated with the word earth; the combination of the two named components gave the meaning "local".
      Source: Etymological Dictionary of the Russian Language. - SPb .: LLC "Victoria Plus". Krylov G.A. 2004.

      Why don't you like the word "native"? Or are you not a native of your country?
      1. Fergus
        0
        December 21 2012
        "native" "aboriginal" in the modern context (and this is only in Russia) are abusive words.
        1. +2
          December 21 2012
          Quote: Fergus
          "native" "aboriginal" in the modern context (and this is only in Russia) are abusive words.

          who told you such nonsense?
          1. Fergus
            0
            December 21 2012
            taken out of communication on the forums
            1. 0
              December 21 2012
              Quote: Fergus
              taken out of communication on the forums

              did not meet such
              1. Fergus
                -1
                December 21 2012
                then walk along the Moscow streets, listen to what the "Russian" people say about us, the Caucasians, the Jews, they have invented klikuhi for everyone, this is where the "Russian" masters are concerned.
                1. Misantrop
                  +2
                  December 21 2012
                  On Moscow streets now people, for the most part, speak Russian with difficulty
                2. +2
                  December 21 2012
                  I’m far from Moscow.
                  Yes, and hardly talking on the streets is just about you.
                3. +1
                  December 22 2012
                  Fergus

                  Teach those who come to us to behave humanly.
                  or do you think we’ll forgive you for cutting ours like this?
    5. Marek Rozny
      +4
      December 22 2012
      Fortunately or unfortunately, Kazakhs are genetically used to living in hordes, empires, unions. Since the time of the Turkic Kaganate, they have only lived this way, perceiving the entire steppe ecumene as a single territory. A constant interaction with various neighboring nations has instilled understanding and respect for these peoples. Each nation has its own national competitive advantages; it has its own weaknesses. If skillfully combining the virtues of each nation in a union, the empire is invincible. Individually, not one of our Eurasian people is able to withstand external threats or simply develop peacefully.
      Fargus, I would like to recall some of our common history regarding the interaction of sedentary Central Asians (Sogdians) and nomads (Turks):
      The Turkic kagans provided military protection for their state and created all the conditions for the enterprising sedentary Sogdians to develop the economy of the kaganate. The Sogdians influenced the Turks in many spheres. At the beginning of the 7th century, the Sino-Turkic relations worsened. China tried to stir up civil strife among the Turks, but nothing came of it. The Chinese saw the reasons for their failures in the Sogdians. In 607, one of the Chinese spies, Pei Ju, wrote in his report to the court: "The Türks themselves are simple-minded and short-sighted, and it is possible to bring discord between them. Unfortunately, there are many Sogdians among them who are cunning and insidious. They have a great influence on Turks ".
      When the sarts try to garden and live on their own, they always get garbage. Sarts are not able to withstand an external adversary. Kazakhs are traditionally inferior to Russians and Uzbeks in the field of urban development and industry. Russians can hardly calculate the consequences of their actions, they do not know how to connect the past with the future. Ukrainians do not have discipline and self-organization. We all have a lot of minuses. And we can develop normally only when we live and work together, using the virtues of each ethnic group.
  37. +1
    December 21 2012
    I am amazed. What's the question? If people like trouble, we have them!
  38. +7
    December 21 2012
    The article is relevant, both in content and as a reason for discussion. That's just the filing of one, transferred the entire discussion to a one-sided insult.
    I have always believed that most of the participants are those who care about our common past, and possibly the future.
    So why do we start a round dance to the tune of one? Why do we pour the stupidity of national elites on the whole nation? Why are we judging the whole nation, only by its worst representatives, with whom we crossed somewhere. Sometimes some simply deliberately incite national hatred, hiding behind imaginary patriotism.

    It makes no sense to speak, but I will. Sometimes the one who speaks most of all about foreigners actually despises not so many of them, but rather the work that they do - well, of course, such individuals are "the highest caste" in relation to migrants. Something this higher caste, not particularly patriotic - is the purity of Moscow ... other cities, provided exclusively by the Russian janitors?

    Quote: Fergus
    As a result, our republics will receive a powerful ally in the person of the West

    Do not entertain yourself with illusions, in the style of Ostap Bender: - "The West will help us." The West works according to the principle - Our resources, your problems. As a result, you stay on your own!
    How many years does Turkey wait to join the EU? How did the West abandon the "orange" Ukraine? What has the West brought to the Middle East - prosperity and tranquility? There are many more questions to ask.

    If it weren’t mainly for the Russian people - Tashkent, until then, would have been in ruins after the earthquake.
    And the issues of friendly relations of non-Russian nations, I saw when I was in the aftermath of the earthquake in Armenia.
    You are without Russia, very quickly bite over (for the same water), and the West will only heat up, because it has the principle - divide and rule, at the head of all politics!
    1. YuDDP
      0
      December 21 2012
      Quote: VadimSt
      Is the cleanliness of Moscow ... other cities, provided only janitors-Russians?

      since the tsarist times, the janitors-Tatars and in my childhood it was
    2. Marek Rozny
      +2
      December 22 2012
      Vadim
      I agree with almost the entire post, but in the end you completely went too far in the style of "ungrateful" and "without us you are nobody."
      Firstly, not only the whole world we rebuilt Tashkent after the earthquake, but also Russian cities after the war. After demobilization, my grandfather was sent to rebuild Moscow for two years from 1946 to 1948, only then he went home to Kazakhstan. If we now begin to calculate who owes whom to anyone, we will not go far.
      Secondly, how does Russia facilitate the water negotiations of the Central Asian states with this macro? Moreover, on the contrary, everything turns out. Tajikistan is planning to complete the Rogun dam with the help of Russia, and this will really cause severe complications with Uzbekistan. So do not think that Russia somehow helps to maintain peace in the region, allegedly dealing with the water problems of Central Asia.
      In general, we will solve the water problem. Kazakhstan is using this factor to find common ground with the slippery Karimov. Kazakhstan has good relations with Bishkek and Dushanbe, so the issue will be resolved. The Tajiks and the Kyrgyz will not be especially involved in the political conflict with Astana. Astana helps these two countries in every possible way and is ready to increase its assistance, both in the field of consulting and financially. In addition, these two "water" countries understand that only the support of Kazakhstan will help them to enter the Customs Union, where they are eager to get and will definitely get there. Astana had already built the skeleton of relations; only the last element - political will - was lacking until Karimov went to cooperate with Astana. After Nazarbayev and Karimov met recently, it now makes sense for Astana to support Tashkent in its water problems and step up actions to solve this problem. It took a long time to wait, but now the puzzle will come together.
  39. +1
    December 21 2012
    Fergus,
    I support you !!!
    Close borders, absolutely right, take all your own and give them a job, great idea! In Russia do not give birth? Ams ... I have 90% of my friends who have 2-3 children and their standard of living is different :) Next, on alcohol, the Russians used it for medical purposes, the first, the second when you come from a 30 degree frost, a shot of vodka is useful , but you have a perverted concept, as we have for you.
    To your regret, if it weren’t for the damned Russians, you would still be roaming the steppes, you wouldn’t have a bang, you would have bazaars, in general this dispute would not be relevant and your arguments here would also be stupid.
    Build your union, God help you, but NATO is not needed at 99,99%, they have enough armies of their own, who speak a lot and do little, I won’t call countries and everyone knows that, but you don’t have an army, the only army which is real is the army of Kazakhstan. Conclusions do only to you.
    1. Fergus
      0
      December 21 2012
      Zhenya
      And I support you, soon come to power and close the borders, turn off your broadcasting in our territory.
      And cotton was far from you. And as long as they themselves roamed the steppe, for me your arguments are as stupid as mine for you. The only way out for both of us is a tightly closed border, breaking diplomatic relations, and placing patriots on our land.
      1. +1
        December 22 2012
        Fergus

        Quote: Fergus
        And I support you, come to power soon and close the borders


        and I, too, crawl faster on your knees --- parasites.
  40. Marek Rozny
    +2
    December 21 2012
    1) Uzbekistan has the right to conduct its own policies as it wants. Moreover, in principle, it owes nothing to Russia and other CIS countries politically and economically. Although the Uzbek president personally infuriates me. But this is their leadership and their right to which organizations to join, which to leave. ..
    2) I really hope that Karimov will somehow retire and that a sane politician will be in his place who will be pragmatic enough to be able to negotiate with all neighbors. In the end, what kind of sart, who does not know how to negotiate?
    3) I want to believe that Karimov just wants to cut the dough from America, but in difficult times, Karimov will be on our side.
    4) Uzbeks are fig soldiers (Sorri, southern comrades), but, on the other hand, not everyone should be in the army. Uzbeks are excellent builders, cooks, entrepreneurs, musicians, and so on. 25 million Uzbeks are an excellent resource for the future large Empire. However, in order for Uzbeks, Georgians, Ukrainians, Azerbaijanis and others to join the new country with pleasure, it is necessary to create normal conditions for them. First of all, change the attitude towards them. They are not traitors. A simple Georgian was and is a friend for other historical neighbors, that is, for us. There are problems, there are grievances (and justified ones), they must be solved. Russia, instead of spreading sharp moments, on the contrary, starts to nag and show off. "The Ukrainian Holodomor? No, you haven't heard ... The supply of weapons to your opponents? No, you haven't heard either ..." etc. Russia's foreign policy is clumsy and chaotic. And with the rampant of pseudo-independent media, unnecessary phobias are also whipped up against potential allies, and this all acts to the detriment of all parties. Some media outlets generally need to hit hard on the turnips to be able to appreciate the WORD. And when no one pulls you down, the newspapermen begin to write all kinds of nonsense in pursuit of "hot" headlines.
    Does Uzbekistan need work in Russia? Create a map where Uzbeks could work in the man-deficient regions of the Russian Federation. Anyway, ethnic Russians do not want to go to the Far East.
    Ukraine needs an apology for the excesses of the first decades of the USSR? Conduct events dedicated to the memory of victims of political repression, without humiliating ourselves by self-torture and humanly remembering the dead Ukrainians. Allocate money from the budget for memorials in Ukraine - this will be more effective than hawking with their leadership.
    Georgians want Russia to leave South Ossetia? Get out. Gradually, but in such a way that it was clear that the Russians were not going to keep their troops there for the rest of human history, and so that it was clear to everyone that if the Georgians allowed provocation or excessive aggression, then Russia would again get into a showdown. Help Ossetians and Georgians find a common language, if you want the laurels of peacekeepers - be them, and not just stupidly helping one, only to annoy Tbilisi.
    Etc. Of course, not all issues are so easily resolved. One Karabakh puzzle is worth it. But you need to show your neighbors that you are ready to work on solving this problem. And who from the CIS countries sees a coherent foreign policy of Russia? Even Belarus does not understand how Moscow treats them.
    1. +2
      December 21 2012
      Great Russia will do what you write (for example). What will you do! What is your role in these matters besides "smart advice"!
      1. Fergus
        -2
        December 21 2012
        Denisey
        Does the fact that there are "smart advice" think people mean nothing to you? Are you going to incite ethnic hatred? I have already answered, but repeating myself once again - you are a lost generation, angry first of all with yourself.
        Even Putin agrees with me - listen to his speech in the St. George Hall. The Russians have lost their goal, are demoralized, embittered, Russia needs agreement between different peoples, which would be based on Russian speech, culture, etc.
        Listen to what your president says ....
        1. Misantrop
          +3
          December 21 2012
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Georgians want Russia to leave South Ossetia? Get out. Gradually, but in such a way that it was clear that the Russians were not going to keep their troops there for the rest of human history, and so that it was clear to everyone that if the Georgians allowed provocation or excessive aggression, then Russia would again get into a showdown.
          And if you look at the map? With just one eye, briefly? If the Georgian troops had managed to break through to the Roki tunnel on 8.8.2008, a big fat cross could have been erected on the South Ossetians. Just because there would be NOTHING to help. By the way, this was the reason for the Tbilisi strategists. Would there be many Ossetians there now if they started with the BM-21 Grad? Given that one volley was aimed at the hospital. And what level of aggression is considered "excessive"? In the "pacified" Kosovo, there are now many Serbs left, despite the fact that it was from Kosovo that Serbia went? Will you find at least one Prussians in Prussia? Or Angles in England? While the scenarios of "appeasement" are being written by democrats from the shores of the Atlantic, playing by their rules is the surest path to suicide of the nation
          1. Marek Rozny
            +2
            December 21 2012
            Misanthrope,
            I worked in the Central Asia and Transcaucasus Division of the CIS Affairs Committee. Wake me up at night, I will draw from memory a map of the entire region.
            Both sides are to blame for what happened in 2008. Even under the late Yeltsin, Russia did stupid things in the Georgian-Ossetian question. It is not worth imagining everything that SUDDENLY SUDDENLY the Georgians were angry with Moscow, and then generally "lost their nose" and invaded "defenseless" South Ossetia. And how ugly and obscenely the Russian media presented this conflict to their citizens - that is still a song. But you shouldn't attribute me to the camp of Americanophiles or Russophobes. I am just the same firm opponent of US policy. But this does not mean that any Russian stupidity should be enthusiastically welcomed by me. There is nothing good in the fact that Russia has been leading the Georgian situation up to the armed conflict since the 90s. When analyzing Russian-Georgian relations since 1991, you yourself will find a bunch of moments that Yeltsin and Putin have misused, who believed that one should not stand on ceremony with neighbors. Discussing this is still a separate topic. The Kremlin has ignited the very fire in the region with its ill-considered and unpredictable policies. To blame the Georgians alone is unfair. It all started much earlier.
            1. Misantrop
              +2
              December 21 2012
              Well, draw a piece of the coast in the Pitsunda area, from the landing on which the militants from Mkhedrioni began, in fact, that local conflict. The eagles of the then Georgian leader Gamsakhurdia decided to "teach a little the life" of the Abkhazians. What is typical, not by peaceful means. A little later, they decided to "move" the Ossetians. Russia behaved ugly? Was it not when the forces of the 345 armored group of the OPDP in June 1993 unblocked the besieged and almost defenseless Tkvarcheli? At that time my younger brother went to this raid as a deputy technical officer of the column, and I met this column personally (I was there just). So I watched the fresh impressions of eyewitnesses not from newspapers and reports. And Yeltsin was there then liquid shit, I agree with that. But he had NO influence on Gamsakhurdia
              1. Marek Rozny
                +3
                December 21 2012
                Gamsakhurdia - that still insane scumbag was, although he had to be dealt with in the days of the USSR. But at the time of Shevarnadze, Russia could easily establish a dialogue with Tbilisi, but did not want to. Moreover, she herself began to train fighters for a war with the Georgians over Abkhazia. It was a criminal mistake, not only that struck at Russian-Georgian relations, but also, as a result, to Russia itself. But still I propose, if you do not mind, to continue the topic of Russian-Georgian relations in a more appropriate news. Moreover, the Georgian topic will soon become more active in connection with the upcoming presidential elections. By the way, Russia again profiled another opportunity to start a dialogue with Georgia. The Kremlin could congratulate Ivanishvili on his victory in the parliamentary elections, and generally begin to work with him, expecting him to be the future president of Georgia.
        2. +1
          December 22 2012
          Fergus

          Quote: Fergus
          Russians have lost their goal, are demoralized, embittered,


          I AM RUSSIAN! come see me aimless and demoralized bully weakened laughing and i need your consent wassat
      2. Marek Rozny
        +2
        December 21 2012
        oh, what malice is undisguised :)))
        Firstly, Kazakhstan does not have these problems, which Russia has with its neighbors. Kazakhs were able to find an approach to all CIS countries. We are constructively cooperating with Kiev, and with Tbilisi, and even with Tashkent (recently). I'm not talking about other countries of the Commonwealth. Tashkent is the hardest partner (I once worked in the foreign affairs agency), but you can agree with him. Or do you think that Russia is bored with learning from Astana? This is another question.
        Secondly, Kazakhstan is doing its job. Those with whom Russia cannot speak directly communicate with Kazakhstan. For example, Ukraine was processed on grain issues. We were actively engaged in Bishkek in terms of squeezing out the American base. Yes, and just on many key issues we quietly, behind the scenes, discuss many issues with "dissenting" countries in favor of our common integration projects. Without unnecessary flashlights and a crowd of journalists hungry for sensations.
        - Vasya, let's solve this issue for the benefit of all. Arrive on Saturday informally, we’ll cover it, show some calculations ...
        That's the way we work with neighbors. There are breakdowns, but most often Nazarbayev (the government, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs) manages to convince the interlocutor of the benefits of cooperation on various issues. Including those that are beneficial to Russia.
        And I will remind the kagbe that in general the idea of ​​creating the CIS for the civilized collapse of the USSR with the subsequent creation of the Eurasian Union, into which the former Soviet republics will again merge without mutual reproaches, without the dominance of communist ideology (using intermediate integration forms - the CU, EurAsEC) was born precisely in KZ. In general, most of the integration projects that are already being implemented today were born in Kazakhstan, but announced by Moscow in order to comply with the "rules of the game." Otherwise, if Astana took on the role of the main organizer of internal CIS affairs, it would have caused a negative reaction among the residents of Russia. And creating a Eurasian Union without the RF is pointless. Therefore, Astana is ready to sacrifice the status of "organizer", if only this business is burned out. Even if Moscow receives the Nobel Prize for the idea of ​​the Customs Union, we don't care. If only the system works. Since the collapse of the USSR, Kazakhs have been working on creating a mechanism for a new Union. And the performer is Russia, as the most influential and high-status state in our part of Eurasia.
        At first, the work went unsuccessfully. Boris Nikolaich was in the clouds and was a shitty political chess player. Putin (for all his minuses) immediately understood who surrounded the former Soviet Union in the person of "Western friends" and understood Astana's idea of restoration of a powerful state deepening integration processes among post-Soviet countries.
        If there are still questions, I will answer. Only, bitte, without pod_bok and poorly veiled empty irritation. Otherwise, the desire to communicate will disappear.
        1. Fergus
          -1
          December 21 2012
          Marek Rozny
          Greetings from Tashkent, we are ready for communication (ordinary people communicate with you normally), and all these our "disagreements" from history plus "Uruses" still put their hand (remember, for example, Lenin's decree on the delimitation of Turkestan, when the native Uzbek lands went to the Kazakhs, Tajiks and vice versa).
          1. Marek Rozny
            +2
            December 21 2012
            Fergus
            According to the general census of the population of the Russian Empire in 1897, there were 968 thousand Sarts and 726 thousand Uzbeks in the Russian Empire. At the same time, there were more than 4 million Kazakhs.
            The national composition of the Syr Darya region (the capital - Tashkent) in 1897:
            Kazakhs - 64,4%
            Sarts - 9,8%
            Karakalpaki - 6,3%
            Uzbeks - 4,3%
            Russians - 2,2%
            Other - 10,7%
            In total: 1 478 398 inhabitants (803 411 men and 674 987 women).

            Let's start talking about the "primordial" lands? Or will we deal with other problems?
            1. Fergus
              0
              December 21 2012
              It’s better to deal with other problems. There is no desire to discuss what can be discussed for a long time, especially since I had in mind the Bolshevik authorities. The main thing is that we live peacefully next door
              1. -1
                December 22 2012
                Fergus

                Quote: Fergus
                all the more so because I had in mind the already Bolshevik power.


                sorry for you - my grandfather did not have time to basmache am
                no cho - get bully

                1. Cyberfedain
                  -3
                  December 22 2012
                  Greetings from the Basmachis, history is silent about the unsightly sides of the Russian invasion, I recall the famous raid Dzhunayd-Khan in 1925 to the Red Army division in Turkmenistan in Tedzhen, where 15.000 Russian soldiers were massacred, the largest massacre of Russians, then Joseph Stalin tried something there to rescue these Basmachi from Afghanistan, so the Afghan Shah Abdullah bluntly sent Stalin to x @ th ... like that fate laughed at Stalin
                  1. +1
                    December 23 2012
                    how many people know who
                    Quote: Cyberfedain
                    Shah Abdullah
                    ?


                    Quote: Cyberfedain

                    Hello from the Basmachi


                    Hello from the KGB family bully
                    Quote: Cyberfedain
                    Let me remind you of the famous Dzhunaid-Khan raid in 1925 to the Red Army division in Turkmenistan in Tedjen, where Russian soldiers of 15.000 goals were polled


                    yeah, and my grandfather participated in the final decision on the issue of basmachi bully ---- all who did not run beyond the hill were sent to the guria!
                2. 0
                  December 22 2012
                  I didn’t have time, but now I can speak Russian cleanly and correctly.
            2. -1
              December 22 2012
              Well, let's talk about the ancestral lands. The question is about three khanates: Khiva, Bukhara, Kokand. And where were the Kazakh lands? And the fact that you worked in certain structures does not speak about your analytical abilities. I think we will understand each other regarding preparation. I just always always asked the representatives of Kazakhstan with respect for their neighbors and not try to put everyone in Central Asia above all, all the same, many things unite ...
              1. Marek Rozny
                +2
                December 22 2012
                Gentleman, you just did not have time to see the post for which I wrote this way. There Fergus began to write that Kazakhstan allegedly seized "the ancestral Uzbek lands." I have no arrogance or hatred towards Uzbeks. The attitude is the same as for a Kazakh or Russian. Not better or worse.
          2. +1
            December 22 2012
            Fergus

            recall when exactly dirty Uruses to kneel and repent before honest Uzbek farmers, what taught them to write and count?
    2. YuDDP
      +2
      December 21 2012
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      A simple Georgian was and is a friend to other historical neighbors

      A couple of days ago, an old Mercedes with a Georgian license plate "VOR 444" was caught on the road
      Somehow I associate this number with the whole simple Georgian people.
    3. -2
      December 22 2012
      Dear Marek Rozny, who do you mean by Uzbeks? We just call our citizens Uzbeks. Regarding your 4 point "Uzbeks are fig soldiers", where did you get this information from? Don't talk nonsense here, I beg you. Don't know, it's better to keep silent .our soldiers give your head start and this is a fact, do not tell the people.
      1. Marek Rozny
        +2
        December 22 2012
        In what century were the Sarts an army? All military functions were performed by Turkic nomads, whom the sedentary Sarts and Tajiks simply called "Kipchaks" (who were called "Uzbeks" before the revolution). And the bulk of Bukhara, Kokand, Khiva were sedentary Sarts and Tajiks who never held weapons in their hands.
        What is there to argue? Even most of the Heroes of the Soviet Union - "Uzbeks" were actually given by ethnic Tatars, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz and Karakalpaks. Take offense, do not be offended, and the fighting qualities of the Sart throughout Central Asia are known. You can leave the forum for yourself, the Uzbek army as an opponent / rival is not interesting to the Kazakhs. Generally. Not our age group. We have other military landmarks.
        At the same time, I willingly agree with you if you prove that the Kazakhs are weaker than the Uzbeks in many peaceful spheres. It is what it is. And war is not your craft.
        Sincerely.
        1. Yarbay
          +1
          December 23 2012
          Quote: Marek Rozny


          At the same time, I willingly agree with you if you prove that the Kazakhs are weaker than the Uzbeks in many peaceful spheres. It is what it is. And war is not your craft.
          Nonsense and vyzhivanie !!!!!!!
          1. Marek Rozny
            -1
            December 23 2012
            Am I going out? Yes, of course. But how can we not choke on this subject, if the core of the Kazakhs is pride in their military spirit? This is the cornerstone of the Kazakh worldview. And everything else is already secondary. We are a nation of conquerors. Good is it, is it bad, is a fact Just as the Japanese are proud of their samurai spirit, so are the Kazakhs proud of their warlike mentality.
            Am I going out? Of course, I curse myself when an Uzbek neighbor tries to squat on his ears, talking about the fact that the poor Uzbek army, in which everyone is sold from ordinary to general, allegedly surpasses the Kazakh in combat qualities. And we have corruption, and we have mistakes, but at the same time the army becomes stronger from year to year in terms of training and software, and the Uzbek army is constantly deteriorating.
            There is a stupid, but characteristic joke on this subject:
            - What losses will Kazakhstan suffer if the Uzbek army attacks it?
            - $ 50 for each Uzbek soldier, so that he turns the machine gun in the other direction.

            Even in a banal street fight, Uzbeks, as a rule, turn out to be bad fighters. In the same Moscow, Tajiks and Uzbeks are constantly insulted and beaten, but with the Kyrgyz, such cases are much less common. Kyrgyzstan will not give offense. He will fill his face to anyone, if necessary. A couple of years ago, Kyrgyz guest workers officially invited Moscow skinheads to play football. Skins did not expect such impudence laughing
            Among the Kazakhs in Russia, conflicts arise only with the Vainakhs, but in all known cases, the Kazakhs washed their blood with Czechs 100%. With no exceptions.
            I say again that there are a lot of Uzbek features in the mentality that I sincerely admire, but in terms of morale, the Uzbek comrade is not suitable for stepping into the steppe. Not the Sarts defended the Kazakh Khanate, but the Kazakhs and Turkmens defended Bukhara. Not Uzbeks, but Kazakhs gave a greater number of Heroes of the USSR in the region. Not the Uzbeks have more military equipment, but the Kazakhs. It is not the Uzbeks who constantly conduct exercises in the army, but the Kazakhs. And so on any item that can be compared.
            1. Yarbay
              -1
              December 23 2012
              [quote = Marek Rozny] And how can we not get into this topic if the core of the Kazakhs is pride in their military spirit? This is the cornerstone of the Kazakh worldview [/ quote]
              You say the same nonsense as the Armenians !! I deeply respect both the Kazakh and Uzbek people !! Here I met your fellow countryman, a Kazakh named Kasim, who, as a brother to me, I’m sure he will never say that because he perfectly understands what he is talking about and responsibly approaches his words!! [quote = Marek Rozny] Am I moving out? Of course, I do it, [/ quote]
              [quote = Marek Rozny] Am I moving out? Yes, definitely. [/ Quote]
              try not to do this!
              [quote = Marek Rozny] talking about the fact that the impoverished Uzbek army, in which everyone from private to general is trafficked, is supposedly superior to the Kazakh in fighting qualities. [/ quote]
              This is another conversation, the state of the army and the quality of peoples should not be mixed! Before that, you wrote about the quality of the people, they say Uzbeks are traders, and you are Kazakhs like warriors !!
              [quote = Marek Rozny] Even in a banal street fight, Uzbeks tend to be bad fighters [/ quote]
              I have not seen, I do not believe !!

              [quote = Marek Rozny] such cases are much less common among the Kyrgyz. [/ quote]
              Well, we saw how the Kyrgyz recently cut out peaceful Uzbeks is not an indicator! Among the Kyrgyz, there are also worthy people and scumbags!
              [quote = Marek Rozny] Kazakhs in Russia have conflicts only with Vainakhs, but in all known cases, Kazakhs 100% washed the blood of Czechs [/ quote
              You are still small. You still need to grow before writing in adult sites !!

              and continue to write nonsense and nonsense, but apparently your childhood justifies you !!
              The number of heroes in the Second World War does not tell me anything!
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                December 23 2012
                firstly, let’s do it without a mentor tone, it surprises me.
                secondly, as I understand it, in real life you rarely encounter living representatives of the Central Asian peoples. and here we are all cooking in one pot, and clear national definitions of kagbe have already taken shape. Let's say that all people are the same, that Kazakhs are as good at basketball as Negroes, Jews are strong in Greco-Roman wrestling, Moldovans are excellent snipers, etc. Uzbeks are strong in trade (I am still putting it mildly in this sense), Kazakhs are fighters and drink much more than Uzbeks. An Uzbek is afraid to get into a fight; it is better to endure the insult in silence. Kazakh is not capable of doing painstaking work for hours. We have our well-known pluses and minuses. Sarts are famous hucksters, this is their element. Remember what we are discussing - the topic of Uzbekistan and the CSTO. What other country is trading so clearly with the CIS and NATO? And moreover, not only Moscow is thrown regularly, but it is not easy for Washington to cope with the bazaar mentality of Tashkent - "Give me more bucks or we will close your base!"
                Uzbeks in their history have never flashed military successes. Generally. Even a gram. And everyone knows that. And the Uzbeks are not even ashamed of this. Now in Uzbekistan, in general, monuments related to the war are being demolished. Uzbeks have nothing to be especially proud of. Monuments to Soviet soldiers are being demolished, arguing that they (the monuments) with their machine guns scare children ... Well, or simply "at the numerous requests of the working people, the memorial to Soviet soldiers has been liquidated." If they themselves are not proud of their military history, which simply does not exist, then why should the neighbors fool around and recognize them as warriors? In Soviet times, due to the idiotic situation that a large Soviet ethnos was practically without Heroes of the USSR, dozens of Kazakhs, Tatars, Kirghiz and Karakalpaks were assigned to them in order to recruit at least sixty people. And now, when all the names have been sorted out by origin, the Uzbeks have simply begun to ignore this period altogether, and to remove the GSS monument altogether so as not to disgrace. Although formally May 9 is still celebrated, it was brought to the state of an abstract event. There will be an opportunity - talk to a young Uzbek live about the period of the Second World War. I was stunned when I realized that some of them do not know at all when she was, and who fought there. They can only talk about the nomad Barlas Timur for a long time, although what does the Sarts and Tamerlane have to do with it? In general, Timur could not stand the Sarts, who now made him their "ancestor" ... And in his army, of course, there were no Sarts at all.
                By the way, about the Kyrgyz-Uzbek recent conflict. I'm just losing weight as far as the Uzbeks turned out to be helpless lambs. I do not justify the Kyrgyz as much, but the Uzbeks did not show any resistance at all. And even neighboring Uzbekistan was silent. This is all so in our way, Central Asian. The Uzbeks drove the phlegmatic Kyrgyz into a rage, and when the Kyrgyz exploded, no Uzbek eloquence saved the poor fellow. This is terrible everything, but it was very predictable. After 15-20 years, the Uzbeks will again start arrogantly telling the Kyrgyz stories to the Kyrgyz that the Kyrgyz live on Uzbek soil or simply bully the Kyrgyz, and as a result they will again get it from their high-necked neighbors. And again there will be many innocent victims, and again the conflict will end in Kyrgyz favor. In our region it was just that. The Kyrgyz even had a Kurman-Danish woman and that kick in the ass for the Sart troops.

                And about age is generally funny. It turns out you drove me into a framework - or consider yourself a young man who does not understand local ethnic groups, or recognize yourself as a step-husband, but who behaves like a child :)))) Wow, how you taught me :)))) Consider me who anything, it doesn’t shake me. You can even call the Uzbeks the strongest army in the world, this will not upset me either, because you have little understanding of who the Uzbeks-Kazakhs-Kyrgyz-Tajiks are, just as I am poorly versed in the nuances of Lezgins-Avars-Talyshs-Armenian-Laks.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  December 23 2012


                  The army of Tamerlane. Who was the nomad war or sedentary Tajiks and sart-traders?
                  1. 0
                    December 24 2012
                    you don’t give me Timur as an example, this is the enemy of our people, well, if you understand and know the history, then as an example read the history of Khorezm. and as for the nomads, then you lived for many years as tribes. and then suddenly, you became a state, gave you a large territory and now you’re trying to say something here. Regarding your athletes, damn it, good, you come here and see how you get out in a street fight against ours. You know, there’s a great movie, I especially like the name of this movie- don’t threaten the south central while drinking juice in your block ... and yes, bon appetit, I hope the popcorn is delicious
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      +2
                      December 28 2012
                      1) Of course, Timur is your enemy, because the nomads always beat the Sarts. To protect themselves from the Kazakhs, the Sarts were forced to hire nomads in whole families and pay them so that some Kazakhs would protect them from other Kazakhs. And when the Kazakh mercenaries left in the 19th century to join the rest of the Kazakhs who became Russian citizens, instantly Kokand / Khiva / Bukhara became doomed. That is why they were defeated with incredible ease by small detachments of the Russian army, together with Kazakh horsemen. However, since now you have become a separate state in which, essno, it is necessary to somehow promote military patriotism, then you did not even find some historical character suitable for the image of the "defender of the Fatherland", and as a result, Tashkent had to grit its teeth and Contrary to historical logic, to call the nomad Temirlan your national hero :)))) You have no other military heroes in your history :))))) Isn't it a stupid situation? A nation without military heroes :)))
                      2) Yes, Kazakhs lived in childbirth. Moreover, even now Kazakhs clearly know their tribal division. Only this is not a separating factor, but rather a consolidating one. The Kazakh mentality implies that "all Kazakhs are blood relatives," and the core idea is the belief that "a Kazakh is not at war with a Kazakh." The Kazakhs have never in history had a civil war or even single bloody inter-clan battles. Horsemen from different clans could beat up, especially during the barymty (in fact, the military training of the nomads), but it was forbidden to kill. Non-lethal means of self-defense were used for barymta - kamcha and wooden clubs. For the death of the dzhigit, the guilty clan had to suffer a severe punishment, which was not disputed by anyone in the Steppe. The Kazakh nation, divided into clans, scattered from Altai to Volgograd, from Siberia to Tashkent, is a monolithic mass that recognizes each other as a relative. With all that it implies.
                      3) Nobody gave us the territory. We fought it off from our neighbors for centuries. Yes, we are not a very pacifist nation, which is, that is. They fought the Sarts, the Bashkirs, the Kalmyks, fought with the Russian Cossacks, and sent the Dzungars into history, etc. Yes - we are a militaristic nation, which we have never hidden, but on the contrary, we are proud of this fact. Now tell me specifically - what territory and who exactly gave us? And in what century did this "giver" receive it? You will break your brain now :))))
                      4) Tell me, what athletes from Uzbekistan have glorified Kazakhstan in international arenas?
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        December 28 2012
                        5) Tell us what are you basing on when talking about "Uzbeks who protect Nazarbayev"? Surnames, bitte. We do not have a division into nationality in military structures, however, I constantly visit military units of various law enforcement agencies - and you will not believe it, in my entire life I met only one Uzbek, and then he did not work in the army for a long time, but left to work already . protection in the UN office in Kazakhstan. By the way, he comes from Kostanay, his wife is a Kazakh, and has lived all his life in Northern Kazakhstan since birth. A wonderful comrade. I can't say anything bad about him, I know him only from the positive side. I have not met other Uzbeks in the military structures. But he repeatedly got acquainted with Kazakhs - natives of Uzbekistan. There are those in the army.
                        4) You don't need to scare me with your yard "Rambo"))) I have already passed the 90s in Almaty, and there the situation was much tougher than in Uzbekistan. In those years, in our yard it was a special chic to take the machine gun from the patrol and throw it on the roof - like an exam for the title of "real kid" :)))) Now I remember this with horror, besides, it must be taken into account that my father commanded the Almaty veterans after we moved from Russia. If my father knew about this, I would have had a very bad time. But then none of ours thought about it. What can I say - 90s. Half of the yard in the next world was due to stabbing or the use of herch, which was very popular then. And this despite the fact that it was almost an "elite" district "Koktem", second only to Samal and the Centers in terms of elite. In short, don't scare the hedgehog with your bare ass. If your guys were so brave, they would have demolished their stupid power long ago, like the Kirghiz. And if your ancestors were brave, they would have conquered as many lands as the Kazakhs. Sart can defeat the nomad only in the bazaar and construction, here you have no equal. But the soldiers of you are caricatures. If even Russians know the names of the Kazakh heroes of the Great Patriotic War, then even the Kazakh neighbors do not know the Uzbek names ... But all the frank uncensored memoirs of the veterans of that war are stuffed with derogatory and negative references to "Yeldash" -Uzbeks. It would seem that the difference between the Kazakh word "zholdas" and the Uzbek word "yeldash" from the phonetic point of view is minimal, but what a gigantic gap between these concepts in the military sense ...
            2. 0
              December 24 2012
              ... I will not say anything, but I have not seen such things said for a long time. By the way, how many of our athletes are in favor of your country, how many athletes are in your country, how many guys are defending your president. You stop throwing such words. By the way, you know what is the most insulting word for an Uzbek? don’t know, come and find out yours.
              1. pag-uralmir
                -1
                December 24 2012
                Your athletes are the same migrant workers only in sports, we didn’t call them here where they pay more and live better, we’re talking about the fact that you pissed off your country and economy. Your buy does everything that it wants does not give life to anyone, Russian is oppressed, cut. At the same time, you went to Russia and here you are trying to impose your customs on us. Arrived, you can’t adjust, you cannot suitcase-station-Uzbekistan. This applies not only to the Uzbeks, but also to all who come.
                And as for the president, if yours defend him, take him to yourself - I do not mind.
                And about the insults, do not forget you are visiting us, and your people bring us all sordid things here, and we have every right to not screw you up.
                I do not like you suitcase-station -.....
                Thank you for your understanding.
                PS So far, Russians have been asking them to respect. And do not forget that the Russian peasant harnesses for a long time, but goes fast.
                1. +1
                  December 24 2012
                  pag-uralmir, I didn’t mean it either. regarding athletes, etc., then it is labor migration. regarding planting traditions and customs, maybe this is wrong, as they say in someone else’s monastery ... regarding repression, I ask again Well, don’t believe everything. Come, you’ll be a guest at my place. I understand very well that when someone starts to behave incorrectly, you don’t like it, but all such many people who live there do not behave like that and you never you won’t say that they are newcomers. regarding the leadership, I don’t dare to comment on anything, I’m not in the same position and nothing will change from my opinion. I only ask that you respectfully respect and not insult, because I, too, like and you, I have honor and dignity. Sincerely. We also have our own culture. Ps. Can I expect that if I come to you, they will normally accept me?
                2. Marek Rozny
                  +2
                  December 28 2012
                  Pug-uralmir, here the Gentleman is telling the truth. The attitude towards Russians in Uzbekistan is normal. Even very positive. This is their Karimov - a goof, and Uzbeks treat Russians very well in their country. They quietly dislike Kazakhs, their mothers for centuries frightened their children not with a babay, but that their evil nomad would take them away :))) And now they are smart, if they want to offend someone, they remember the most terrible curse - "goats" (" Kazakh "in Uzbek). But the Kazakhs look at this with a smirk, one can understand the nation that the steppe people have been gouging for centuries. And we have the concept of "Uzbek" - not an insult, but a profession :)))) And we treat the newcomers to the Uzbeks normally, they do not bring "muck" to us, because they will pop up instantly. Therefore, there are no problems with them. They work normally, and for a penny and at the very bottom of the labor pyramid, and by doing this they greatly help Kazakhstan to free its own labor resources from low-intellectual professions. Nefig Kazakhs to sweep the yard or whitewash the ceiling. Kazakhs in their country should work only in prestigious jobs. And advice to the Russians - use the ghasts correctly: they must free the locals from "black" work, and the locals must work at a higher level. And if problems arise from a guest worker, then they must be kicked and deported mercilessly. But at the same time, the locals themselves must create conditions under which the Gast will not relax and have a reason to humiliate the owners. And when the owner is weak, uncivilized and subject to too many negative passions, the "guest" will always try to sit on his neck. In Kazakhstan, ghasts behave modestly and quietly, although in percentage terms there are more of them in KZ than in Russia. At the same time, no one insults or beats a guest worker as it happens with you. We immediately let them know what can be done in KZ and what is not. In general, the best guest workers in our country are the Kyrgyz. Respect for them is specific - responsible, keep their word, do not steal, do not give themselves offense. One can feel their core. It is a pity that they are forced to work abroad for a penny, I hope they will quickly establish order in their country. It's nice to fight with a Kyrgyz, and drink, and have a heart-to-heart talk. An outspoken, honest, brave nation. The fact that they are now ghast is a temporary problem and a brief misunderstanding. Russia would have made a better mercenary division out of them - it would have made the right decision. And they will never betray, and in battle they do not scare. The Chechens took Gori in 2008, and the Kirghiz would take Tbilisi in a couple of days - and even before the Russian command had time to prohibit it :))) Although I'm not sure that the order would have stopped them :))) ) They also killed our last Kazakh khan Kenesary in a fair battle. It's a shame, kanesh, but what can I say - handsome! Moreover, they firmly rejected his ransom offer. The Uzbeks would not have resisted and would have taken the grandmother if the Kazakh Khan had happened to be captured by them. Still, we have a big difference with the Uzbeks in mentality ...
                  1. 0
                    December 28 2012
                    Marek Rozny

                    They do not like Kazakhs, their mothers have scared their children for centuries not with a granny


                    Silent, silent ... did not want to comment, but here he could not stand it anymore. Here you lie, friend, and you will not blink an eye. We don’t dislike it, but treat it normally, with a slight apprehension, since - a drunk Kazakh, a bad Kazakh, yes. The next morning at Kazakh, simple-minded - can climb on a drunken bench and into a fight, out of the blue. And so, there are no more problems. For example, Kazakhs in Uzbekistan, they feel very good in the power structures - there was a time, about 40 percent of your brother was in cops, really ... *)

                    As for Amir-Timur, etc. It's funny to talk about his nationality. Fact - he ruled Miveroannachrome (Transoxiana). Fact - there was an empire. Fact - Samarkand was the capital. But to call him Uzbek, Kazakh, etc., is as ridiculous as calling Clovis or Charlemagne the French ... *))) Timur is not an enemy of the same Uzbek people, but part of its history. The rest is all speculation - stupid.

                    Young man, I understand, you can't convey nature ... but still, a little less bragging. At one time, my brother received his first tank platoon in Semipalatinsk. My family and friends all worked in Leninsk and Balkhash. My Father often disappeared on business trips in your anti-Chinese direction = this is about "belligerence." Although the main thing is professionalism, even if a person is in uniform, and not belligerence =.

                    So something like this ... *)
              2. Marek Rozny
                +2
                December 28 2012
                In your country, you can insult each other as you please by mentioning our ethnonym, but millions of Uzbek migrant workers in Kazakhstan are somehow stubbornly shy to pronounce this word in an offensive manner. They completely lost their memory for some reason :))) Otherwise, they will break his jaw and throw him back to his hungry family in Namangan. And so - your guest workers behave quieter than water, below the grass. Even the Chechens and those become a model of peacefulness among the Kazakhs, what can we say about Sarts;)
        2. -1
          December 23 2012
          no offense of course, but it’s not too sick for you to eat your brains))) it’s even funny.
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            December 23 2012
            Well, why argue with you? you have no reasons. Well, at least it's so merged. Well, if there are arguments - write, with facts, with logic. and not on the basis of naked phrases "we will give you a head start, and our instructors are maniacs."
            let’s lay out a comparison of the Kazakh and Uzbek armies. if it is unprofitable for you to do such an analysis, then give me a flash of historical erudition, where you will prove to me "with brainwashed" that the Sarts have been the combat power of the region since ancient times, before which all the harsh armies of cheek-cheeked herders fell prostrate.
            took popcorn, waiting for comics.
          2. Marek Rozny
            +1
            December 28 2012
            Eldash Gentleman, where is the comparative analysis of the Uzbek and Kazakh armies? My popcorn is already ending, but the movie never started ...
      2. +1
        December 22 2012
        Quote: Gentleman
        Uzbeks are fig soldiers "Where did you get this information from? Don't talk nonsense here, I'm asking you very much. You don't know, it's better to keep silent. Our soldiers give yours a head start and this is a fact, don't make people laugh."

        Dear Timur, I apologize for interfering in your dispute, but since Soviet times, a relatively large number of Kazakhs have been drafted into the Airborne troops of the USSR and at the same time during all the time of service I did not see any Uzbek commander in the units. Why do you think so? Because nomads have always been better warriors than sedentary Asians. This is a fact confirmed by the history of the USSR Armed Forces.
        1. -1
          December 23 2012
          Nomads were also taken into snipers and other troops where endurance was needed. The only nuance is that many of our guys go to their special forces, there are a couple of facts when our guys were taken to protect foreign heads of state. However, all the same, military potential higher in Uzbekistan than in Kazakhstan. and instructors are better with us than they are, thanks for this the USSR
          1. Marek Rozny
            -1
            December 23 2012
            Quote: Gentleman
            the nuance is that many of our guys go to their special forces, there are a couple of facts when our guys were taken to protect foreign heads of state
            Where did you get this "nuance"?
            And where is your potential higher than that of Kazakhstan? How many sarts? I am begging you. Or did you decide that after a small gang of IMU-Schnikov caused a commotion near Tashkent in 1999 and left freely, now the Uzbek army has improved its "combat skill"?

            Excerpts from the news a few years ago:
            "... recently at a closed meeting of the National Security Council Minister of Defense of Uzbekistan Kadyr Gulomov sharply criticized the combat effectiveness and state of military discipline in the Uzbek army. "Combat training in the troops does not meet the requirements of the time. The personnel are not trained and often do not know basic things.", - he said".

            "... a document signed Deputy Minister of Defense educational work Colonel Mannob Akhmedov. This document specifically states: "The troops do not conduct safety training in handling explosives and ammunition, and the personnel simply do not know what to do with them."

            What potential are you talking about? It makes no sense to compare the amount of military equipment. Training - also (Kazakh servicemen do not climb out of endless exercises and training, recently it was mentioned here on the site that even the raid of military pilots of the KZ exceeds the similar Russian indicator and is practically equal to the NATO indicator). In addition, in Kazakhstan, unlike Uzbekistan, a program of military training is being developed, through which all men over 30 are being "chased".
            What kind of instructors are you talking about? Where did they get the knowledge from? Kazakhstan is training its military personnel in large numbers at universities of the Russian Federation, Western Europe, Turkey, China, and the USA. Even in Singapore there are Kazakhstani cadets (future officers of the Navy of the Republic of Kazakhstan). It’s government policy to have officers familiar with the military affairs of the countries mentioned. Where does Uzbekistan train its specialists? In Turkey only? Well, maybe a couple of people in Moscow. That's all. To compare with the fact that Kazakhstan annually sends hundreds of its cadets to foreign military universities can not even be compared.
            What objects of the military-industrial complex have Uzbekistan launched in recent years? None. But Kazakhstan is working on the production of aircraft and armored vehicles on its territory. A project is being prepared for the production of Kevlar, the latest types of radio communications, etc. are already being produced.
            Each year, Kazakhstan buys new military equipment - airplanes, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc. Moreover, this figure is increasing every year. The defense budget of the KZ is several times larger than the Uzbek, despite the fact that it is only 1% of GDP, and the Uzbek percentage is more than 3%.
            It is also worth recalling that a little more than half of the Kazakh army is professional, and conscripts make up a smaller part of the army. Can Uzbekistan boast of this? Again, no.
            The only Uzbek plus is the number of potential reservists. But their value in the professional plan is low. And given how many Uzbeks are currently out of place in their country, the Ministry of Defense of Uzbekistan will have to collect them from around the world for a long time ...
            And for what do you thank the USSR? You even eliminated your military intelligence. What happened in 1991 (in the military sphere), Uzbekistan not only did NOT multiply, but, simply speaking, profiled. Unlike Kazakhstan.

            You have some slogans. "Let's give a head start!", "The potential is higher!", "The instructors are better!" Let's take a sober look at the situation, the number of equipment, troops, the cost of rearmament, professional training, the number of exercises conducted. I’m not talking about the mental difference between our ethnic groups and I’m not giving historical excursions.
  41. 416sd
    +5
    December 21 2012
    Moral of the story:
    Alain Dales would be very happy to read how the people here are biting.
    The USSR is occupied. In Russia itself, there is a fifth column that provokes the discrediting of all Russian in post-Soviet countries. In small countries, too, at different levels - from power and opposition to business and NGOs, there are similar columns. We were occupied. In 1991, we suffered a catastrophic geopolitical defeat. and we were occupied. Without Einsatz teams and sweeps. Culturally. Spiritually. All that happens is the result.

    I still want to share something. As an example of what I wrote above, even the fact that the Russian is projected onto the CIS is also not quite Russian, to put it mildly. Russia does not have the skills of the so-called. "soft power". Well, they broadcast TNT to the CIS. The question is - is TNT Russian channel and how much Russian is there? Or on many other Russian channels? Rimbaud's film in Russian what is Russian "soft power"? No, it's a SURROGATE. In short, everything is very, very difficult. Here many are emotional, all Russian guys, I understand absolutely everyone. Even the most emotional ones. But many often replace specific knowledge of the causes of what happened with intuition and feelings. Otherwise, the Union cannot be restored.

    Putin? Putin has corrected a lot, at least the RF today is not the 1998 RF. But Putin resembles Schumacher sitting at the wheel of a Zhiguli - he has at his disposal a weak, demographically torn, spiritually occupied country. What comes out of it is a question. Time will tell. The main problem is that Russians stunningly easily spoil their attitude to themselves. There are no allies. Armenia and Tajikistan not allies, these are satellites. But it is necessary to attract really standing potential allies, and not speak from the position "I am the king - you are a savage."
    1. Misantrop
      -1
      December 21 2012
      Correctly you write everything, here is only one trouble - this position:
      Quote: 416sd
      But it is necessary to attract really standing potential allies, and not speak from the position "I am the king - you are a savage."
      the farther, the more it manifests itself precisely in relation to the Russians. And not just anywhere, namely in Russia
    2. Yarbay
      0
      December 22 2012
      Quote: 416sd
      Putin? Putin has corrected a lot, at least the RF today is not the 1998 RF.

      Changed form, not content!
      Quote: 416sd
      But Putin resembles Schumacher driving

      I do not agree !!
      Recent events have shown that there is nothing sacred, there is only nepotism and a fraternity of corrupt officials !! Thieves at the State in the Ministry of Defense, one happily goes free, the other under * house * arrest meets the first one is a shame !! It wasn’t just necessary to advertise this criminal it’s just a matter of covering up from the very beginning, and it’s just shown to people that at least sell your Homeland, but if you are part of the untouchable system, they will simply reproach you!
      Quote: 416sd
      the main problem is that Russians stunningly easily spoil their attitude to themselves
      Absolutely right!!
  42. +1
    December 21 2012
    Ssss --- ka !!! Well, what srach raised, and ??? How many times have everyone discussed and come to the conclusion that the games of Karimov and his ilk are not the will of the common people. What do you endure with each other brain? So do not insult at least each other !!! There is a time for everything ... A day will come and everything will return to normal ...
  43. -1
    December 22 2012
    tofik sykty? wassat
  44. 0
    December 22 2012
    It is clear that the common people of the former Soviet republics are not against Russia. But this people calmly watched, and sometimes participated in the massacre and exile of the Russian population in the 90's. So, these peoples should be treated taking into account their national mineralities. Nationalism is precisely the relationship with other peoples, taking into account their mentality. Nehru to be in front of all the good.
  45. pag-uralmir
    +1
    December 22 2012
    Truth is born in a dispute, and the truth here is that no matter what the locals speak here. But the fact is that this is a RUSSIAN SITE, and these non-local people are sitting here and still teach us life. Go to your Uzbek, Tajik sites and write and read them there. What are you doing here? Apparently there’s nothing to read, since all are literate (a little bit), they left for those who were not faithful to work, if you are so enlightened and smart, self-respecting, why are you going to non-believers? We are condemned, robbed, poisoned, slaughtered - what do you want here? England you see the sovereignty of them you gave in the eager years, would take if carried away, the colonies of England were always needed. Russia has never rested on your wasteland, and neither have you. They sit on our sites, they scam us .... suitcase - station - Tashkent
    1. +1
      December 22 2012
      pag-uralmir

      we will ask them more for drugs and strictly.

      they come to us for long money and they do garbage here, god-soul-mother, they obviously forget the laws of hospitality when leaving at our stations.
    2. Beck
      +4
      December 22 2012
      Quote: pag-uralmir
      and the truth here is that the locals would not speak here. But the fact is that this is a RUSSIAN SITE


      These are the words that put the sticks in the wheels, which is only gaining momentum in the Eurasian Union. The leaders of Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus are trying to involve as many republics in the new union as possible in order to jointly resist the challenges of the West, which has gained strength in China. So no, someone from the gateway should bark.

      Others will not come to this not Russian, but the RUSSIAN website, if the administration hangs a banner over the entrance - FOR FOREIGNERS, FOREIGNERS, FOREIGNERS THE ENTRANCE IS RETRIEVED.

      But this will not stop barking. Then they will present their evil rumbling to each other. Peter - Kazan, Ufa - Voronezh, Vdadivostok - Khabarovsk, etc.
      1. pag-uralmir
        -4
        December 22 2012
        This is a Russian site, you have come here a lot, you have bought passports, and that's what Russians and Russian are made up of people like you. And in Russia 80% of Russians are a mono state according to any international definitions, and the one who says that RUSSIA IS NOT FOR RUSSIANS, HE IS EITHER ... TO ANY PROVOCATOR. And about the Eurasian Union, I already wrote that Russia, Belarus, and Eastern Ukraine are enough for me. And the aul, the village and others - parasites are not needed. We will deal with China ourselves, and with the current traitors, and also ask from those who bought the Russian passports.
        1. Karish
          +1
          December 22 2012
          Quote: pag-uralmir
          This is a Russian site, you have come here a lot, you have bought passports, and that's what Russians and Russian are from

          Why do you have the flag of Belarus? wassat
          Quote: pag-uralmir
          And in Russia, 80% of Russians are a mono state by any international definition,

          Mono-state 95% of the population of one nationality and in general the INTERNATIONAL definition does not exist.
          Examples of mono-ethnic states with more than 95% of one ethnic group: Albania, Armenia, Bangladesh, Germany, Greece, Denmark, Egypt, Italy, DPRK, South Korea, Madagascar, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Somalia, Japan.

          Losers.
          Quote: pag-uralmir
          And about the Eurasian Union, I already wrote that Russia, Belarus, and Eastern Ukraine are enough for me. And the aul, the village and others - parasites are not needed. We will deal with China ourselves, and with the current traitors, and also ask from those who bought the Russian passports.

          Enough for you? And who are you ?
          1. pag-uralmir
            -1
            December 22 2012
            I am RUSSIAN, and the flag as for work there. As for other countries, I don’t care about them, so live there, but we don’t need your brother. DO NOT. What have you done with the same Germany, you will come and think where you are, whether in Germany or in the eastern bazaar. You have your own country and live there. Where he was born there and came in handy, and if you don’t need yourself, then even more so this kind of good is not necessary for us.
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              December 22 2012
              strange logic from a person who himself is on earnings in another country.
              1. pag-uralmir
                0
                December 22 2012
                Dear, you don’t need to be such a limited person! I'm not earning money here, as you put it. I am a representative of a Russian manufacturer's factory in Belarus. And do not be stupid. Books to read, not watch TV.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  0
                  December 22 2012
                  Well, let's not be blunt :) That is, as a Russian person, by definition, you cannot be on the job? Are you a "representative of the Russian plant in Belarus"? That is, you are not paid money for being there? Or do they still pay, but the concept of "earnings" applies only to Asians, and it is forbidden to call fair-faced "migrant workers"? Explain, from what moment does the distinction between salary and earnings begin? And what do you earn in another country? Why didn't you sit at home? How do you generally differ in the essence of your activity from a Tajik janitor in Moscow? Do you just have more salary? Or do you supposedly have higher intellectual abilities than this Ravshan?
                  1. pag-uralmir
                    -4
                    December 22 2012
                    1. For whom the earnings, and for whom the joint production.
                    2. Ignorance is rushing, I didn’t go into my pocket, and I also do not work in Germany or Italy, but work with the Slav brothers if we have a union state with Belarus. And there is no closer people for the Russian.
                    3. I don’t bring syphilis, tripper, speed, drugs, crime, rape, theft, and I’m driving high technology.
                    And you only confirm the Russian truth-let goats .. and into the garden.
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      +1
                      December 22 2012
                      Come on, you fool around :) Millions of ethnic Russian citizens of Russia are scattered all over the world in search of earnings - Germany, USA, Turkey, UAE, China, Norway, etc. And not even in prestigious jobs. Or are you from the opera "No, haven't you heard?" There are an order of magnitude more Russian migrant workers than the Central Asian and Caucasian combined. And Russian guest workers are being brought to the countries mentioned not only by "high technologies", but also by those negative moments that you described.
                      Secondly, I still don’t understand what you got into Kazakhstan? Do Kazakhs bring AIDS, rape, theft and drugs to Russia? Wake up, citizen. In my opinion, you confuse Kazakhs with someone.
                      ZY Let me remind you of another Russian proverb: "Teach the fool to pray ..." You would have tied it up with your angry rhetoric. And now, in the heat of the virtual "struggle for Russia", in general, utter a lot of nonsense.
                      1. pag-uralmir
                        0
                        December 22 2012
                        We have not yet switched to you, and as for those who left, it is our fault and our problems and we ourselves will solve them, without you. And the fact that they are being brought there will be sorted out by those to whom they are taking it, we will return home, we will add here for everything that they were carrying.
                        In Kazakhstan, I do not care. we are talking about the fact that you climbed from Kazakhstan to a Russian site and are trying to teach us here, sort it out first.
                        To a strange monastery with its own charter ....
                        Kazakh studied with me at the university, so he drove this grass in bags here, then he was planted. If we talk about the fact that you are bringing here, then you have to deal with this at home, but you do not do this, it is beneficial for you that the Russians quickly bend down and you divide the land.
                      2. Marek Rozny
                        -1
                        December 22 2012
                        Yes, you have already spoken to me with a bunch of direct insults. Why are you really going to be schoolgirls?
                        1) about the "Russian site" ... you have funny logic, "plant representative" :))) but on Google and YouTube you purposefully do not go? after all, American resources, and you are a Russian (or Belarusian). be careful there - suddenly you come across a local (with a Canadian flag) he can scold you for visiting an American site ... laughing And connect the Yatran typewriter to your computer, otherwise the Chinese may not like the fact that you used their keyboard to access the American Internet. Damn, then you still need to change the monitor to "Horizon" ... oh, what kind of sickly problems you will have if you want to be consistent and principled in the field of IT ... But do not be afraid, if you no-no look at YouTube, then I will not tell anyone! And he himself did not fall! Domain RU - that's your fiefdom!
                        2) Concerning the Kazakh-anashist. I think that you will easily remember the ethnic Russian-anashist in your environment. Or, at worst, an alcoholic. By the way, it is strange that Kazakhs do not blame Russians for being addicted to alcohol. At least, they don't start a conversation with the first Russian they meet with the phrase: "Aaaaa, are you a Russian Vasya? You, such a bastard, invented vodka and brought it to Kazakhstan! Shchyas you will answer for everything, alcohol distributor!" :))))
                        Well, I don’t need your land, sprinkled with your blood, for yours. Firstly, it’s corny with us that there is more land per capita, well, and secondly, my ancestors (and just Kazakhs) repeatedly fought for Russian land actually. We have a strange tactic of capturing the Russian zemlyatse. Give lyuley to an external enemy, risking his life, so that he could later grab the city of Kursk ... In our family of tsarist, Soviet, Russian awards, we will gain a few kilograms. Go elsewhere, look for enemies, rambo.
                      3. pag-uralmir
                        -2
                        December 22 2012
                        I don’t shy away from the websites of foreign countries, and if something is needed on someone else’s website, then I don’t write to the people who are sitting there, how to live and how to behave, and I don’t teach the mind too, and there’s no question of insults at all .
                        From rudeness and silver carp already tired, that in the forehead and that on the forehead everything is the same for you. You do not even understand and do not evaluate your behavior, one stupidity on emotions. Like, we Kazakhs are so cool, we’ll drive teas and poke our fingers so that everyone else plows on them.
                        There is nothing to talk about, in principle with you. you are visiting us, and you have already confirmed it more than once (let goats go into the garden).
                        In my environment there are neither drunks nor grass chickens.
                        It is not necessary to say that if a person from Kazakhstan fought, that he was Kazakh at that time, no less than Kazakhs lived Russians in Kazakhstan. And then you became independent and kicked out the Russians. What is not genocide.
                        And I tell you that you are defiant on the Russian site, and having come here with your behavior to prove it.
                        Sit in Kazakhstan. Azerbaijan, Tajikistan ... and we don’t need you. We do not go to Kazakhstan to you and do not dance Russian folk in your squares, and all those who say that we can’t get by are the enemies of Russia. The economy and the country will cost well without your cheap power.
                      4. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        December 22 2012
                        Are you friends with logic? In one post, he mentioned that many Russians live in the KZ, and then you write that the Russians did not go to Kazakhstan? :))))) We drove, even as we drove. By the 70s, comrades from the RSFSR, Ukraine and Belarus had come so much that the Kazakhs became a national minority on their own land, although until recently Russians in the KZ had a gulkin nose (censuses of the Russian Empire and the USSR to help you).
                        Not a single Kazakh here ever said an insulting word to the Russian people. But regret that among this fraternal people there are many chauvinists, I can express.
                        Nobody drove the Russians out of the KZ. They are still a third of the population (and in total non-Kazakhs - 40% of the population). They left in the early 90s home to their homeland (few of the adult Kazakhstanis then could boast that he was a native of Kazakhstan), but then the Russian comrades came to their senses, decided to stay. And oddly enough, the Kazakh government suits them more than life in Russia. A very strange "genocide" was invented by the Kazakhs :)))) They also write in Russian on their money so that it would be easier for the "oppressed" Russian speakers to be oppressed :))))
                        You definitely have a phase shift if you think that crowds of Kazakhs in the face of "labor force" are rushing to Russia. I thought you were really worried about something, but it turns out that you don't understand anything at all, since you confuse Kazakhs with Tajiks. You would sit in Belarus and not be hysterical, comrade. And then tomorrow the brothers-Belarusians themselves will kick out such a throaty kid from their country. They will also be added to the list of Russia's enemies.
                        Z.Y. Russians at the holidays we also publicly burned stuffed animals. And nothing ... Let them keep their culture. It’s not annoying me like a Kazakh. Like Caucasian Lezginka or Korean drummers. I am pleased to join national festivities. Although the chauvinist is unlikely to come to mind - to respect a foreign culture and his own at the same time. Either this or that. And more often than not, he doesn’t know his own culture, either.
                        Go have some tea, chill. A smart man is looking for friends, a fool makes enemies.
                      5. pag-uralmir
                        -2
                        December 22 2012
                        Read carefully.
                        In Russia you are not welcome, chop it on your nose - that’s a fact. And not because we are so angry, but because you have shown your rotten gut lately.
                        Let's goodbye!
        2. Beck
          +2
          December 22 2012
          Quote: pag-uralmir
          And about the Eurasian Union, I already wrote that Russia, Belarus, and Eastern Ukraine are enough for me.


          This is enough for an undeveloped, limited mind. Admitting in modern times the possibility, so, like, chop off from another state half. Fortunately, Russian leaders do not think so, as sober politicians.

          Quote: pag-uralmir
          We will deal with China ourselves, and with the current traitors, and also ask from those who bought the Russian passports.


          From such words you might think that this is not a site. And the gangway of half-thieves -Let's figure it out. Traitors. Freeloaders. I bought it. We ask in full.

          With such manners, it is better to ask yourself: - Stop. Am I a fool?
          1. pag-uralmir
            -2
            December 22 2012
            Yes, I don’t care about you at all and your brother, you can insult, yap, bark everything that you can. You might think that it was you who boosted the economy here, developed industry and everything else, you all sat in our neck, then got off looking around, saw your bare ass and climbed our neck again. The whole of Kazakhstan, Russian brains raised, we are your brains, and you are our anasha. What you yourself have achieved, all that is left of the union. They would still be running along the steppes if they hadn’t gathered you and didn’t put you at their desks.
            Here is your essence, you are on our site and are trying to teach us how to live in your country, you haven’t mixed up anything!
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              December 22 2012
              1) KazSSR was a donor to the USSR state budget, not a recipient. So any investment in Kazakhstan was more than paid for by the republic. If you start counting who owes whom, then Russia will have to pay off the "debt" of the USSR state budget to the Kazakh SSR for several lives.
              2) The development of industry in Kazakhstan was not done for the Kazakhs, but for the entire USSR, including for the needs of the RSFSR. Do you even understand why they built a bunch of raw material factories in Kazakhstan?
              3) If the Kazakhs allegedly remained in debt for the raw materials industry allegedly built exclusively by the Russian people, then who owes us for the Holodomor of 1932-1933, for repression, for nuclear test sites and the dried up Aral Sea? What an attempt to ascribe to himself the merits of the Soviet government and to disown the shoals of the same government. In Russian it is called "and eat a fish, and somewhere to sit".
              And one more thing: both my grandfathers shed blood on the territory of Russia during the Second World War. One of them, after the war, rebuilt Moscow for two years. Uncle - the liquidator of Chernobyl, another uncle - fought in Afghanistan, father - fought in Chechnya as part of the Orenburg OMON. Can this be considered a payment for the construction of a coal mine in Karaganda? Or have they not paid enough to the Russian people-creator? How much more do you need to fight for Russia? Sound right away. In the meantime, we will prepare an invoice for exported hydrocarbons, metals, wheat, meat, and uranium. And the bill for the ecology of Semipalatinsk and the Aral. So that no one is left owed to anyone. So will we undo Russian-Kazakh relations? Or stop considering who owes what to whom?
              1. Beck
                +2
                December 22 2012
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                KazSSR was a donor to the state budget of the USSR, and not a recipient


                Got ahead. Therefore, I will not repeat myself.
                1. pag-uralmir
                  -2
                  December 22 2012
                  Kazakhstan was now a donor, only because the Russians raised and developed it. And now, Nazarbayev dispersed all the Russians and planted his bais. Well, sit in your Kazakhstan and on your sites. Or you can’t even create a site.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    -2
                    December 22 2012
                    Citizen, something brown fell out of your mouth. Here you have a napkin, put yourself in order.
                    1. pag-uralmir
                      -2
                      December 22 2012
                      Well, gov..but you, by golly. What kind of rotten people to say is essentially not what they begin to offend, what kind of rot.
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        0
                        December 22 2012
                        Comrade, something behind you from the back of the back of the neck something else a little gray fell out ... Put it in place, otherwise your eyes became empty ...
                      2. +3
                        December 23 2012
                        Alexander, are you paid pen ... s? If not paid yet, then this is their omission. You are the enemy of Russia and the future, in the throes and labors of the reconstructed great state. It is not important, consciously or out of wit.
                        For a long time I have not seen such dense aggressive ignorance.
        3. +1
          December 22 2012
          pag-uralmir , yes, someone bought Russian passports. So what? If there is demand, there is supply. Who bought it, did they themselves take your officials by the throat and say "Sell it quickly, or I'll cut it!" Cut off the hands of your SALES officials-bribe-takers and you will be happy!
  46. pag-uralmir
    -1
    December 22 2012
    To whom there is greater respect, to these people, or to those who say otherwise.
  47. +2
    December 23 2012
    Quote: Gentleman
    what aggression from all of you gentlemen Russians

    Quote: Fergus
    further beyond Moscow, impassable "swamps" begin where you came from.

    Quote: Fergus
    And remember! we are all people, equal before God, only he can judge us
    not you
    NOT YOU gave us education, writing
    NOT YOU decide who we are - mouse, midgets
    Aren't you sitting on Olympus to decide the fate of millions
    NOT YOU built factories
    DON'T YOU Fought With The Germans

    Judging by the nickname from the valley, such as Fergana, it would also be nice to connect the memory block to YOUR own brain, and remember what, why and where, in WHICH, PE was Uzbekistan, and WHERE HIS Russia brought it .. but then YOUR glavuzbek Russia began to take on a lot of money, then they won the occupation, then they are the occupiers, and the fact that in the country itself ALL productions DEPENDING on the Russians stood up, somehow no one says there is, for example, knitwear from Andijan, there are no irrigation equipment from there, but there were TWO large factories producing pumps, graders, and another, which were supplied to CHINA, PAKISTAN, INDIA and other countries; now only DEU Neksiya and DEU matiz-in RUSSIA, the plant in Tashkent produced IL 76- Karimov was not enough ..., now IL 86 is manufactured in Russia, the ZERO semiconductor plant in Tashkent, the tractor plant, which was specially adapted by the RUSSIANS for Uzbekistan, ZERO, Zero airbases, there were previously disagreements with the Kyrgyz, but not WAR- Now, ZERO, what else can I talk about ??! I approached the Uzbeks in my city, like to talk, everyone is sharply dissatisfied with the head office, sharply, and they themselves admit that they WERE FOOLS, expelled from the RUSSIAN COUNTRY, repent very much of this, but what is typical is NOT GATHERING home, and it’s good here .... wink So -that I think you should also think about your statements, which are very unpleasant by the way, for us Russians. wink
    1. 0
      December 23 2012
      WERE FOOLS, EXPLOING FROM THE RUSSIAN COUNTRY-in my post there wasn’t such a thing))) besides, I’m not from the valley, but from a completely different part. Personally, I’m not going to scold or discuss the actions of the leadership — this is a matter of those who are dissatisfied, who do nothing can only swear. regarding people, let's say that the one-main thing will always be to blame, and not the one he put
      1. sashka
        +1
        December 24 2012
        I have a family in Tashkent. And in the passport office they just stupidly sent. In words .. And who called you here? What does it mean ? They also demanded a lot of money ..
        1. +1
          December 24 2012
          And what? And I have some examples from my friends and from the stories of strangers when our people from Uzbekistan came to passport offices in Russia and they had the same attitude towards them, and extorted money too. And how is this to be understood? Russians came to Russia, called! Naturally, this is not everywhere, but there is a place to be.
          1. sashka
            0
            December 24 2012
            UzRus,
            So I'm talking about Russia .. But in Uzbekistan they answered exactly the same words. Just sent.
            1. 0
              December 25 2012
              Critters, what else can you say!
    2. pag-uralmir
      +1
      December 23 2012
      Here I am about the same thing, learned, fed - you will receive and sign for those. If it weren’t for the Russians, they still rode a donkey, and wiped themselves with burdocks. Quickly, they forgot who brought them to the people. That's right Lukashenko told them to buy. And then, like a girl, here and there. When the shepherds rise again, let him not ask again. And these Uzbeks, who are sitting on Russian sites, are apparently apparently completely in the villages to talk to no one. Well come, sit, read-BUT NOT CHEAT IN ANOTHER MONASTERY WITH YOUR CHARTER.
      1. sashka
        +1
        December 24 2012
        At TAPO and Ch .... I worked for 14 years .. And suddenly they decided to transfer ALL the technology to the Uzbek Language .. So there is no more factory ..
        1. 0
          December 24 2012
          Also, as there is no Uzbekselmash, Tashtekstil, Photon, etc.
  48. pag-uralmir
    -2
    December 23 2012
    What can I say!

    RUSSIAN WAY
  49. sashka
    0
    December 24 2012
    TAM lived .. Dictatorship .. The number of police officers exceeds the Army by 40% .. You can’t even take pictures .. The cops are within direct visibility. ..How?
    1. 0
      December 24 2012
      It is what it is...
  50. 0
    December 24 2012
    I suggest sending all the dirty Uzbeks to their home.
    1. +1
      December 24 2012
      I suggest sending all the dirty Uzbeks to their home.


      Ummmmm ...

      And if someone has time to wash ... take a shower, then you will not send, right? *)
  51. pag-uralmir
    -1
    December 25 2012
    This is what we have lived to see, and all with our tacit consent.
    The small town of Shatsk in the Ryazan region (according to the results of the 2010 All-Russian Population Census - 6 people), located 562 km from Moscow. The chief of police was thrown out, he covered up Armenian crime. The head of the passport office was also fired and was producing vodka clandestinely. The head registers Armenians who have already acquired mansion houses and take away land from local residents. And in connection with the attack on the Russian guy, a case was finally opened. The fact is that they brought illegal migrants from Uzbekistan. And they may have cut off the Russian guy's ears. He is still unconscious. He underwent craniotomy. They mocked him, poked him with a knife, and tied him up with tape. Whether he will survive or not is not yet clear. A guy, generally a non-drinker, very decent, was found at home by his wife. A week before, a dog was poisoned, apparently they were preparing for it. Then they tortured me at home. Uzbeks bake bread, possibly suffering from tuberculosis. The doctor, the owner of the bakery, threw out all the Russians, and hired these ones - they don’t need to be paid, they don’t need sick leave, they don’t need to register. Nobody takes bread because everyone is afraid of tuberculosis. People are afraid. The lights are not turned off at night. Is this life on your own land?

    I, he says, gave birth to you, I, you and.... .
  52. Ivan Mazyr
    0
    December 25 2012
    Quote: 416sd
    But there is another important thing - if someone thinks that by deporting all the newcomers and at once you will solve all the problems of Russia - this is profanation.


    It's right.
  53. 0
    December 26 2012
    Yes, they can do mischief! But for some reason their citizens go to Russia to work, is it too good in Uzbekistan and they need to go to “Imperial” Russia? Hey, Uzbekistan, wake up! As soon as they press properly, then we are brotherly people for them and wow, how good! And if we defend our interests, then immediately the devils and radishes - this is not good
  54. Oriat
    0
    January 17 2014
    Karimov said correctly, your CSTO will be tested at the first conflict)) Here you have a Kyrgyz fighting with a Tajik, but it seems like members of the CSTO?!?!!... tomorrow Ukraine and Russia will trample on the Crimea, but it seems like the CSTO... a Kazakh with a Kyrgyz, but then Armenia, as an observer, will remember something else... Why don’t you think with your brain? The USSR died (I personally regret it), but this is a fact. There are still problems with borders. Why does NATO and the entire Western world look at the CSTO as if they are dumb?!!? Who are you going to protect???

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