Tank battle near Novoadarovka, drones and problems of situational awareness of armored vehicle crews

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Tank battle near Novoadarovka, drones and problems of situational awareness of armored vehicle crews
A frame from a video taken from a quadcopter (@voin_dv)


One of the most interesting and memorable events that took place recently in the zone of the Russian Special Military Operation (SVO) was the battle near Novoadarovka, during which one Russian tank opposed two Ukrainian tanks and six armored vehicles.



Battle near Novoadarovka


Data on the nomenclature of armored vehicles vary. Presumably, the T-72B3 main battle tank (MBT) was operating from the Russian side, although some resources mention the T-80 MBT. Tank T-72B3 exists in modifications: 2011, 2014 and 2016.

On the T-72B3 MBT of the 2011 model, dynamic protection (DZ) "Kontakt-5" was installed, a V-84-1 diesel engine with an 840 horsepower. s., a multi-channel gunner's sight "Sosna-U2", which includes sighting, thermal imaging and rangefinder channels, as well as a control channel for a tank guided missile (TUR), a radio station R-168-25U-2 "Aqueduct", providing work through closed channels connections. The automatic loader of the gun for new ammunition has been improved and the undercarriage has been improved, which received caterpillar tracks with a parallel hinge.

On the MBT T-72B3 of the 2014 model (T-72B3M), intended for participation in tank biathlons, a panoramic thermal imaging device for the commander was additionally installed, the V-92S2F engine, with an increase to 1 hp. With. power, automatic gear change and a control system with a voice informant about critical operating modes.

The most modern serial version of the T-72B3 model of 2016 is equipped with a set of modular DZ "Relikt" with anti-cumulative lattice screens (according to some reports, the DZ "Kontakt-5" is still installed in the frontal part), the V-92S2F engine with an automatic transmission, a digital display, a rear-view television camera, a 2E58 weapon stabilizer and a TVN-5 driver's observation device. But the commander's panoramic thermal imaging device, unfortunately, is missing in this modification.


MBT T-72B3 model 2016

What version of the T-80 tank was, if it was still him, is unknown. The most modern model of this line is the T-80BVM MBT, which, like the T-72B3, is equipped with the Sosna-U2 sight and the Relic DZ. Taking into account the need to modernize a large number of tanks, in the conditions of the SVO, a less advanced thermal imaging sight 1PN96MT-02 and with an additional daytime optical sight 1G46 began to be installed on a number of vehicles. The commander's panoramic thermal imaging device on the T-80BVM is also missing.


MBT T-80BVM

Even less is known about enemy vehicles - the models and modifications of the tanks are unknown, with a high probability these were Soviet-style MBTs. The rest of the armored vehicles, presumably, were represented by American MRAP M1224 MaxxPro armored personnel carriers.


MRAP M1224 MaxxPro

There is still confusion about how many targets it was the Russian tank that destroyed, and how many were destroyed by support forces and blown up by mines, however, this in no way detracts from the heroism of the tank crew (nor does it detract from the merits of other, invisible participants in the battle, for example , sappers and artillerymen).

Even if not all targets were destroyed by the Russian MBT, it was his fire that made the enemy stop, panic and shy away in different directions, which led to the destruction of the enemy. Without a tank, the armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine could have gone into the green, dispersed and started some meaningful actions, but everything ended quickly and fatally for them.

Watching the videos posted on the Internet, it is not at all clear how the crew of the Russian tank was able to conduct aimed fire - there were many bushes and trees between it and the enemy, after the first breaks the battlefield began to be covered with fairly thick smoke.


Smoke and "green" - we are watching the battlefield from a "third person", but how did the tank crew navigate in such conditions? (frames from the quadcopter)

These shots again make us think about the need and ways to increase the situational awareness of armored vehicle crews, primarily MBT crews.

Traditional solutions and distant prospects


The solution to the problem of increasing the situational awareness of the crews of armored vehicles involves the use of modern technical solutions, whatever one may say, but using the technologies of the last century, it will not be possible to achieve any breakthroughs. We need modern matrices for daytime video cameras and thermal imagers, high-quality optics, high-speed image processors and high-quality displays for displaying it. In addition, you need special software for intuitive management of all this stuff.

Given the fact that in the conditions of the NMD, when it is necessary to significantly increase the production, modernization and repair of armored vehicles of all classes, even Sosna-U2 sights, we now do not have enough, it is somewhat premature to talk about tomorrow's technologies, however, if anyone is interested , then this issue was previously considered in the materials "Improving situational awareness of the crews of armored combat vehicles" и "Ergonomics of workplaces and combat algorithms of advanced armored vehicles".


Large screens in the cockpit of the Israeli Carmel tank concept

Of course, some developments to increase situational awareness exist and are being developed within the framework of the Armata platform, however, apparently, they have not yet reached large-scale production, and it is not known when they will, but the SVO is already underway. The problem is not only in complexity, but also in the fact that a lot of armored vehicles are needed, yesterday and inexpensively.

Based on the foregoing, it is necessary to consider alternative ways to increase the situational awareness of armored vehicle crews.

top view


An extremely interesting solution was applied during the modernization of the medium tank T-62 to the modification of the T-62M model of 2021. In particular, an external multispectral gyro-stabilized optical-electronic system (MGOES) developed by the Central Research Institute "Cyclone" was installed on it.

It is located aft of the tower on a retractable mast and includes a laser rangefinder, a high-definition television channel and a thermal imager. When folded, the height of the mast is 1,3 meters, and when fully extended it is 5 meters (there are doubts about 5 meters, perhaps this refers to the maximum height of the MGOES optical block, taking into account the height of the tank hull).


T-62M with MGOES

Unfortunately, on none of the T-62M tanks sent to the NVO zone, MGOES, apparently, was installed, at least the author was unable to find information about this in open sources. It’s a pity, since the design of the MGOES type, although it will not replace the commander’s modern panoramic sight, will allow the tank to use tactics that are inaccessible to other ground combat vehicles that are not equipped with a similar system.

For example, a tank can use terrain features and objects present on the ground to covertly monitor the battlefield. The enemy in this case will be detected much earlier than the tank with the MGOES, of course, if he does not have "eyes in the air", that is, reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) or other means of aerial reconnaissance. Without them, neither thermal imagers nor high-resolution television cameras will help, because they have not yet learned to see through soil, concrete or iron.

Having provided the possibility of coaxial guidance of the MGOES and the gunner's sight, the commander can determine in advance the direction to the target, turn the cannon in its direction, after which the tank with the MGOES for a short period of time will come out from behind the shelter or climb the slope, carry out additional aiming of the gun (compensates for a couple of degrees of deviation due to the tank's own movement) will fire a shot, after which it can again take cover and / or change position.

Third party


Another promising solution is to give the MBT its own aerial reconnaissance in the form of a small-sized quadrocopter / octacopter / hexacopter UAV. This possibility has long been considered in various countries, including Russia. The author previously raised this issue in the material "Unmanned systems for advanced armored vehicles".

of the latter, News on this topic, we can recall the project of the new German tank Panther KF51 ("Panther"), which the Rheinmetall concern was going to produce in Ukraine (where is it, after the shame with the "Leopards" in Ukraine, it's time for the Germans to get used to the fact that the tanks in the armies of European countries will be American).


The concept of the Panther KF51 MBT and the quadrocopter-type UAV placed on it

Russia has also previously considered placing wire-powered UAVs on armored vehicles, including the Whirlwind UAV for the BMP-3 and the Pterodactyl UAV for armored vehicles based on the Armata platform.


UAV "Whirlwind", powered and controlled by a flexible cable

The reality of the SVO confirmed the highest efficiency of reconnaissance UAVs - without them, the war would have looked completely different. The threat posed by UAVs forces belligerents to respond, and one of the most effective ways to counter UAVs is through the use of electronic warfare (EW). A small-sized reconnaissance quadcopter-type UAV placed on the tank can be powered and controlled by wire, which will provide it with complete noise immunity and unlimited time spent in the air.

As a counterargument, it is usually said that the wires can break, especially in urban areas, however, firstly, the need to have a head on the shoulders of the UAV does not cancel - they can work mainly when the tank does not move, and secondly, if the wire breaks, a small the battery will ensure the landing of the UAV in the "nest" with control over the backup radio channel. The cable can generally have a magnetic fastening, with a sharp jerk, it will simply open the contact with the UAV and be drawn into the “nest”, where the UAV will then land, the cable will “magnetize”, and you can continue combat work.

What opportunities will the tank's own UAV give?

As in the case with the mast discussed above, this is the possibility of observing from behind a shelter, and compared to the mast, a UAV, even with power and cable control, can rise much higher - by several tens or even hundreds of meters. Even 30 meters is the height of a ten-story building, there is no dust, less smoke, the terrain or low buildings will not interfere with detecting the enemy.

In the city, the UAV can “look around the corner”, climb up, inspect the windows and the roof, and if tank-dangerous manpower is detected, the tank will work on it with a cannon - fold the entrance or call for support.

Who will operate the UAV?

On the one hand, this can be done by the tank commander, on the other hand, it can distract him from controlling the battle. If you use UAVs from stops, then this is not so critical, but there are still certain risks. The question arises, maybe it is possible to add a fourth crew member to Soviet-style tanks, for example, by sacrificing part of the ammunition load and slightly changing the layout, seating him next to the driver? Many advocate the return of the fourth crew member also because it is easier to maintain the tank, which, despite its "brutality", requires serious maintenance.

These are all issues that need to be worked out.

Perhaps now is the time to try new solutions that can further shift the balance of power on the battlefield in our favor. Despite the fact that so far the situation in the NMD zone is relatively stable, it is not known what challenges await our country and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in the future.
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  1. +1
    3 August 2023 04: 21
    Tank battle near Novoadarovka

    ***
    "The armor is strong, and our tanks are fast,
    And our people are full of courage:
    Russian tankers are moving forward -
    Sons of their great Motherland" ...
    ***
    1. The comment was deleted.
  2. -2
    3 August 2023 04: 43
    You can also place "counter-drones" on tanks - these are also UAVs, but they are designed to hit enemy drones. In size, these one-time "flying projectiles" should be a third of the size of a regular quadrocopter, because their goal is to prevent the enemy from hitting their tank with a copter.
    1. +1
      3 August 2023 16: 35
      Quote: A. Tolstoy "Peter I"
      Further, it’s smart, smart that you are afraid of King Charles’s securs... In the year XNUMX, because of his securs, I destroyed the army in these very positions... You are preparing a counter-securs, but it is expensive and complicated, and you put a lot of time into it... And mine the counter-course will be the one to take Narva as soon as possible... Seek victory in speed, and not in caution... Your disposition is a wise fruit of military science and Aristotelian logic... But I need Narva now, like a hungry loaf of bread... The hungry do not wait...
  3. +9
    3 August 2023 04: 52
    Or maybe the UAV is connected to the "terminator", and already it will transmit data specifically to the tank. It just seems to me that the option with a 4th crew member will not work on existing tanks. In new developments, this option is possible. In the meantime, either the tank commander or the "terminator" tank support vehicle.
    1. 0
      10 August 2023 11: 31
      with some thought, they called the t-14 a command center in the network. If there is a digital network on the field, then there is also the ability to remotely steer the drone - there is not a very wide bandwidth for control, much wider for receiving video telemetry. The very ability to steer a neighbor’s drone can resolve the issue of the number of crew members.
      But this is a specific challenge to the domestic radio industry, which for some reason does not realize the qualitative lag in digital coverage and secure tactical-level channels. To the count of the old, and to whom they had mercy - to replace them with young and greyhounds ... well, or all of them with a count.
  4. +10
    3 August 2023 04: 58
    The author is not a tanker, is he? What prevents the commander from controlling the battle through the optics of the UAV? Can you answer logically?
    1. 0
      3 August 2023 05: 33
      Any UAV is a target, the question is about the time of its defeat or suppression.
      1. +3
        3 August 2023 11: 15
        [/ quote] [quote = Thrifty] Any UAV is a target, the only question is the time of its defeat or suppression.

        any tank is a target
        it's just a matter of time...
        eight minutes...
        1. 0
          4 August 2023 15: 08
          In Syria, the tank lives from one to three, four months.
      2. +7
        3 August 2023 17: 59
        "The author is not a tanker."
        That's for sure! There are nuances in writing.
        But... The problem is raised correctly.
        In many cases, such as ambush, shooting from fire, UAV reconnaissance is needed. Another thing, does every tank need it? After all, we are striving for network-centric combat control, and data from a reconnaissance drone or other intelligence data should be available to all combat units of the unit. The tank commander is not Kutuzov M.I. It operates in a fairly small sector: up to about 500 m along the front and, if the fire is direct fire, as it should be for a tank, up to 3-4 km in range.
        In addition, there is talk both among us and among the dill that, due to the development of electronic warfare, it will soon be very difficult to use cheap civilian drones. Here is a jammer for each tank instead of the fourth crew member.
        1. 0
          10 August 2023 11: 54
          if it’s standard for armor, then the db drone is tethered - this immediately removes the issue of energy (carrying capacity) and protection of communications over cr. measure with the platform. We already have experience in developing (not with us, but the concept has been tested by implementation, you can buy and get acquainted in practice) drones with the location of the blades orthogonal to one axis (counter-rotation of two or four), this allows you to sit on the legs fixed on the end or even be launched / taken on robot arm platform. In general, it is better to be able to store or launch a second drone when the first one is lost, but this is a lyric.
          I'm all about the fact that the image quality can even exceed current capabilities. And also fundamentally new opportunities open up due to the removal of the horizon, for example. formation of a stereo representation of the environment for adjusting the ACS fire.
          Answering your question: does every tank need it? KMK the ability to run db is reserved for everyone, but management and analysis - these tasks can be delegated. Obviously, piloting can be given to AI, which can help the commander of _one_ tank, but if there is interaction, then it is worth looking for ways to share in order to optimize the load, increase noise immunity and reliability of the system. I would not be surprised if such functions can be seen not only on the tank, and the combination of different carriers will make the tank drone an important function of the entire network.
    2. 0
      23 October 2023 03: 07
      Yes, nothing interferes. Ideally, the only thing missing is a normal augmented reality tank helmet. There is not enough space in the tank; there is no place to put monitors there.
  5. -10
    3 August 2023 05: 24
    I wanted to become a banker - become one
    And the tanker turned out to be closer to death.
    When foreign policy is subordinated to money
  6. +7
    3 August 2023 05: 29
    The second year of the NWO is underway, the tanks are poking like blind kittens and see little. What is difficult to order quadrics on wires for armored vehicles from a private company? Or I myself do not burn in the tank and my children do not burn, so there are no problems?
    1. +8
      3 August 2023 19: 19
      Dear Maiman61! You, about "quadrics on wires", but don't want to talk about the tank's connection with the "outside world"? The next time you watch the next "news from the fields" - pay attention to the tanks (ours) moving towards (or from) the position with open hatches and antennas sticking out of them ... What do you think - what is it? Some kind of "conditioning" or an attempt to violate safety precautions? No-ah! There is a communication session between the tank commander and the "base" (CP) ..... Why in this way? Try to guess three times .... And you are talking about "quadrics on wires" .... Someone, somewhere, it seems that "the war will write everything off" and forgive minor flaws, scientific and technical "indifference" and elementary illiteracy .. .
  7. +6
    3 August 2023 05: 33
    The crew certainly did well, they showed courage, perseverance and bravery. However, a view from another drone clearly shows that both tanks and 3 armored vehicles were blown up by mines. And when there were explosions, the tank did not shoot. He fired a little to the right at the previously lined equipment. You can even see how he hit 2 previously wrecked armored vehicles, from which white smoke went. The operator was simply emotional and did not even pay attention (yes, he didn’t care) where the gun of our tank was turned. And he simply did not see the column (2 tanks and 8 BA) because of the trees and smoke. Perhaps later he fired at blown up tanks. In their disposition, later gaps were visible, but I'm afraid that the artillery was already working. Well, he didn’t shoot high-explosive fragmentation. And the sub-caliber does not give such gaps. The BCs in the wrecked tanks did not explode, and remained with the towers. The mines were anti-tank and nearby armored vehicles, especially wheels, could suffer from their explosions. The video ends and conditionally, in that place there were 5 more armored vehicles. How did it end? Maybe the tank shot them down?
    1. +2
      3 August 2023 10: 37
      Quote from buv59
      The operator was simply emotional and did not even pay attention (yes, he didn’t care) where the gun of our tank was turned.


      And why did you decide that the commentator in the video is a drone operator or a dowry from a tank company?
      All communication on the Internet will not be merged.
    2. +3
      3 August 2023 17: 35
      Quote from buv59
      both tanks and 3 armored vehicles were blown up by mines.

      So there is no longer any feat ... "buv59" (translated from MOV - "was59" !!!) easily and simply (according to the CIPSO manual!) sowed doubt in the feat of the crew of our tank. And he does all this under the guise of "objectivity" ...
      And our command is suckers. They are not able to figure out the situation, but they present the crew for state awards ...
      How easy and simple! Well, straight from the cartoon "The Bremen Town Musicians":
      - Well, all together
      Ears to breed
      Better in a good way..
      . (Slap your ears on your cheeks!)
      And the proxies from TsIPSO will deliver you another fake snowstorm. am
      Don't worry!!!
      Horror!
      1. -3
        4 August 2023 17: 30
        Boa constrictor KAA (Alexander), I also hope the feat was real and the rewards will find their heroes.
        But in our memory there are many examples from the Second World War, when, in confusion, and worse because of propaganda, the exploits of others were attributed to someone or did not happen at all.
        We now know how the correspondent, according to other pilots, described the feat of Viktor Talalikhin, and now it turned out that it was a completely different crew of this air unit. And Talalikhin's plane was shot down in this battle, but did not participate in the ramming.
        Or another example with the torpedoing of the battleship "Tirpitz" of our K-21, in which not only the whole country was made to believe, but the Commander of the submarine Lunin himself was persuaded that he had definitely hit .... Although Lunin himself did not claim this upon returning to the base. But the country needed a high-profile feat and it was invented.
        How not to heap up something similar in this war and not become like the Ukrainians with their "heavenly ghost of Kyiv" request
        1. -1
          4 August 2023 21: 08
          But Lenin was a woman! After the destruction of the USSR, this carefully hidden secret was revealed by honest seekers of the truth.
      2. 0
        6 August 2023 15: 00
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        And our command is suckers. They are not able to figure out the situation, but they present the crew for state awards ...

        In my opinion, the last 1,5 years of the NWO have well revealed what the command is. The person above correctly raises questions about the effectiveness of the Russian tank, since judging by the video, all the work was done by mines and artillery. In the end, the Armed Forces of Ukraine took this position and are still holding it. But the work of the crew itself can of course be called heroic.
      3. 0
        10 September 2023 19: 46
        I gave my assessment of the crew in the first line - read more carefully. And with your rating, don’t descend into fantasies about what login means. He doesn’t like my login! buv59 means something completely different from what you were making up. Yes, and I don’t know the language. Really CREEPY!
  8. 0
    3 August 2023 05: 38
    The main "tank problem" of the SVO is that tanks are used individually. Such a tactic of using tanks leads to only one thing - this lone tank will be quickly burned. And that's all.
    1. +2
      3 August 2023 06: 15
      in the video, the APU had several tanks and armored vehicles and they all disappeared together.
      Apparently, tanks in a crowd used to make sense when they could break into positions and take them. And now it doesn’t work like that and more often they all just don’t get there together.
      1. +7
        3 August 2023 06: 54
        One of us arrived. What prevented sending 2 to cover for each other? You really do not slide into frank insanity. The SVO showed the same thing that was always known - tanks are helpless when attacking heavily defended positions without the support of infantry and aviation. And also, options have long been invented to overcome this state of affairs. But where did you see the reading general? After all, the charter must be read, and not crammed from memory.
        1. 0
          6 August 2023 15: 41
          Quote: Hanurik
          After all, the charter must be read, and not crammed from memory.

          The statute must be read and understandwhat you read, not cramming. However, this applies to any science.
      2. +1
        3 August 2023 21: 36
        "Tanks in a crowd" laughing never made sense.
        They had and now make sense when operating in battle formation with all types of combat, technical and logistic support. Yes
        "For a long time, options have been invented to overcome this state of affairs (the defense of a strong enemy)."
        That's right!
  9. +3
    3 August 2023 05: 55
    after the shame with the "Leopards" in Ukraine, it's time for the Germans to get used to the fact that the tanks in the armies of European countries will be American

    The shame as a whole is not yet complete ... because so far the tanks have not participated either in areas with fewer mines ... or in battles with rural and urban buildings ... or from ambushes ... or in tank skirmishes rarely encountered in the NWO
    That is, it’s too early to talk about shame
    Well, the Americans do not stop trying to send their own, albeit outdated, A1A1 ... so that they are unlikely to face another fate
    Yes, and the Germans are also already trying to send in the more ancient Leopard-1A5, which, according to official data, practically did not participate in wars
    In any case ... the flow of donated armored vehicles has not yet weakened
  10. +8
    3 August 2023 06: 13
    Even before the CBO, our members of the forum suggested making the UAV the standard equipment of the tank smile... they also offered different options for transmitting information from it to the tank crew.
    In general, we are now discussing what our General Staff should have taken care of yesterday ... it is not too late for our generals to jump into the outgoing train of progress.
    Interesting things are happening at the Pentagon...
    local analysts are carefully studying our and land experience of warfare and are going to change the strategy for the use of conventional weapons (artillery, riflemen, ammunition, etc.)
    making a bet on the range of weapons.
    That is, as usual, the Americans want to fight at long distances, beyond the reach of Russian weapons ... something like the Hymars.
    Our weapon designers should keep this in mind.
    1. +2
      3 August 2023 11: 15
      Someone is downvoting you.

      A video is circulating on the Internet of how the crew of a Russian tank was given target designation by radio from a picture of a drone. I can't find the video.
      In principle, at least a photo stream (not talking about video) can be integrated into the available information display terminals in the tank. Of course with a display switching function of choice.
    2. +4
      3 August 2023 17: 55
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      local analysts are carefully studying our and land experience of warfare and are going to change the strategy for the use of conventional weapons (artillery, riflemen, ammunition, etc.)
      making a bet on the range of weapons.

      This "long-range" weapon needs "high-precision" projectiles, preferably with a homing unit. Excalibur is expensive, at a price it is more expensive than a passenger car! And the technology is not simple - it requires heavy-duty electronics that can withstand accelerations of up to several hundred "G" ... Again, "shells" are increasingly giving way to "rockets" (MLRS!). That's why we make Hermes. And other "flying pillars". It is expensive. These are "logs" in the furnace of war. And everyone wants to drown with "brushwood" - a lot, easily and simply: cast iron in one word!
      That's the problem, not the "stupidity" of the generals. Believe me, they (especially those who graduated from the Civil Aviation School) have enough brains and education for our entire "forum" and still have more. AHA.
      1. -1
        7 August 2023 09: 54
        If they have enough brains, then why are we not moving forward?
      2. -2
        10 August 2023 10: 57
        Maybe the infantry and tank generals are academicians of the war, but I personally know who Sokolov’s KChF is, and I didn’t notice anything in him (in terms of the brain), more and more insanity and sand and 5th points. I talked a lot personally - an eccentric eccentric (M)
  11. +1
    3 August 2023 06: 38
    It seems to me that something interesting and useful will appear in this area when all this is over. So far, these are isolated cases and will not be massively implemented. When all the accumulated experience is comprehended, endless approvals, tests (already tested in battle), approvals and our other bureaucracy pass, only then will we see real actions.
  12. +10
    3 August 2023 06: 59
    For the T-72, that tank rolled back too briskly, except that it was its latest modification, where the shameful 4 km / h seemed to have finally been fixed. So I'm more inclined towards the T-80.
    1. 0
      4 August 2023 15: 12
      Quote: Puz Big
      For the T-72, that tank rolled back too briskly, except that it was its latest modification, where the shameful 4 km / h seemed to have finally been fixed. So I'm more inclined towards the T-80.

      Well, there are 11 km, which is certainly better than four, but not so completely straight.
      1. 0
        4 August 2023 20: 28
        Well, how would it almost almost three times better.
  13. +3
    3 August 2023 07: 00
    Our weapon designers should keep this in mind.

    It all comes down to technology and production capabilities.
  14. +6
    3 August 2023 07: 02
    Presumably, the T-72B3 main battle tank (MBT) was operating from the Russian side, although some resources mention the T-80 MBT.
    Yes, it was clear that a bluish cloud was rising from his port side, which means this is a tank of the T-72 family.
    Just like his opponents was the T-64 tank, a distinct bluish thick smoke behind the stern and a tank of the T-72 family, again a bluish smoke to the left along the side, he was also with a KMT-6 gauge knife trawl
  15. +4
    3 August 2023 07: 54
    Look on the Internet for patents and articles "Reconnaissance and fire weapon system of a tank" and everything will fall into place. And the crew is heroes.
  16. +4
    3 August 2023 08: 14
    This is Murmansk, the "5 corners" square, one of the Victory parades on May 9th.
    1. -1
      10 August 2023 10: 59
      did you cover all the asphalt? Kolsky and Lenin's losses will be covered? It would be better if they built an embankment - a port city and there is no embankment.
  17. +1
    3 August 2023 08: 50
    To control drones and evacuate crews of damaged vehicles, a BMPT (Tank Support Fighting Vehicle) should be added to a tank platoon. BMPT "Terminator" even in the five-seat version is not very suitable, there are not enough places, it is better if it is a heavy BMP T-15.
  18. +2
    3 August 2023 10: 08
    So the interview with the crew was probably not shown on the Moon?! 72ka it was. Yes, and our point seems to be called NovoaIdarovka ...
  19. +1
    3 August 2023 10: 09
    When the tank commander or another crew member is there, it is permissible to look at this UAV fired from the vehicle. Did you see a lot of time on the reaction of the crew? There, seconds decide everything, turn your head and the tower back and forth. And plus, at the moment of loading the gun, the barrel does not shoot for several seconds, and targets are also sought out. It is in the overall picture that video information about the battlefield should be displayed on the commander's screen, online. If he has time to even look at this card. Even from games of tanks on the PC, it is clear that at the moments of the collision, in the game on the battlefield, there is no time to look at the map.
    1. +6
      3 August 2023 15: 49
      When you don’t see the enemy, but he is there, there will even be time to look at the image from the drone, there will certainly be time.
  20. +2
    3 August 2023 11: 17
    Fighting on the line of contact is fleeting, as this battle has shown. A regular drone with a stalking function, or whatever it is called, with a charge for 30 minutes, is enough. Displaying information from surveillance cameras on the screens of the driver and commander will already raise awareness at times. And I would also put circular cameras like on a car already, so that they can display a 360 panorama.
  21. -1
    3 August 2023 15: 30
    These shots again make us think about the need and ways to increase the situational awareness of armored vehicle crews, primarily MBT crews.


    I watched this record several times, except for swearing at the commanders (who only expressed themselves in swear words) - there were no other emotions ...
    1. the name "Alyosha" - yes, he is not a deer, but you - the commanders: I immediately remembered a film about self-propelled guns and Lieutenant Malezhkin!
    2. It is the swearing on the part of the commanders that shows their inability to promptly help in such a situation - that's what network centricism is for, I really understand that some "charters" have not been rewritten for the last 80 years, and no one wants to change something here ... we only know how swearing and giving impossible orders
    but to show how enemy tanks are equipped today - in our Defense Ministry, 33 years were busy with other things ...
    By the way, at the dawn of my career, I had a retired coppersmith, when he drinks - so tell me what is the difference between a Sherman and a tiger from a T-34 and what amenities are there ...
    1. +5
      3 August 2023 18: 11
      Quote: Dedok
      except for swearing at the commanders (who only expressed themselves in obscene language) - there were no other emotions ...

      Let's start with the fact that the commanders were sitting behind the levers of our T-72 ... (commander! However).
      Cursing - operators of the reconnaissance UAV, observers of the battlefield. Maybe there were "commanders" among them, but, I believe, not higher than a platoon commander. And even then, probably, from partisan volunteers ... In the heat of battle, you can’t “voice” something like that. So, there is no need to strictly judge the men on the LBS, sitting at home on the couch. And it follows, as the hero of Misha Galustyan said - UNDERSTAND, FORGIVE! Yes
  22. +3
    3 August 2023 15: 54
    The author, the presence of an UAV in a tank, has one subjective and significant drawback, and it’s definitely not in the wire break that you wrote here, “As a counterargument, it is usually said that the wires can break, especially in urban areas, however, firstly, the need to have a head on your shoulders The UAV does not cancel - it can work mainly when the tank is not moving, and secondly, in the event of a wire break, a small-sized battery will ensure that the UAV will land in the "nest" with control over a backup radio channel. The cable can generally have a magnetic fastening, with a sharp jerk, it will simply open the contact with the UAV and be drawn into the “nest”, where the UAV will then land, the cable will “magnetize”, and you can continue combat work.
    The main problem with the presence of an UAV in the tank is the workload of the tank crew, three members have the task of driving the tank, shooting and observing in a narrow view through the scope and triplex, and you still want to give them an UAV, the question is which of the crew members will be responsible for monitoring battlefield with a drone?
    even if an additional crew member is added to the tank, which involves a complete redesign of the tank or the manufacture of a completely new tank, the crew will not have time to observe the battlefield using a UAV. The easiest and cheapest option is to equip the tanks with normal communications and give one of the members of the tank, most likely the tank commander, a computer with a display where data is transmitted in real time from all reconnaissance equipment, including from UAV operators who are currently flying over the battlefield where they are this tank, on all tanks, at the very least, normal sights and surveillance systems mean triplex, the main problem in the tank is the relationship with external sources of information on what is happening on the battlefield where communication can be disrupted by the enemy’s electronic warfare and electronic warfare systems
  23. 0
    3 August 2023 17: 09
    Well, it hasn't even been two years since everyone started to get it.
    .
    Who will operate the UAV? As we can see, the author is within the framework of anthropomorphic ideas about UAV control and does not see the possibilities of automating UAV control.
    .
    In the conditions of SVO and the shortage of everything, tanks should be equipped with cameras from a smartphone on a rising bar, like the horns of a trolleybus mounted on a tower. The exorbitant requirements of the Moscow Region for this analogue of the periscope should be abandoned, the bar should be made flexible, like a whip. If it breaks, put in a new one. Even though the expensive rigid bandura MO, even the flexible rod, you can’t watch in motion - everything is shaking.
    Electronic image stabilization. During the movement, the commander should not present a continuous video sequence, but separate clear frames. In general, there are many ideas on the interface.
    .
    In general, it infuriates that they cannot make an ordinary selfie stick for a tank! Soon the fighters will buy them themselves, connect two smartphones with a wire and put them out of the hatch ...
  24. 0
    3 August 2023 18: 32
    You can invent a lot, but now you just need a good connection with armor and art and intelligence, including airborne, and infantry
  25. 0
    3 August 2023 20: 38
    Author! Correct: Carmel is not a tank, but an AFV, which is closer to the BMPT.
  26. +1
    3 August 2023 22: 51
    It is a pity that the other crew of the tank, who accomplished exactly the same feat in the fall of last year in the Kherson region, was not only not awarded, but also ignored. Then a similar story also hit the drone lens.
    1. +1
      3 August 2023 23: 29
      I wrote about it below. There is one opinion in MO, the rest are wrong ...
  27. +1
    3 August 2023 22: 52
    All crew members are great! Acted on adrenaline and won! But, better guys do not climb on the rampage. Good luck in battle.
  28. -1
    3 August 2023 23: 27
    The confusion began at the Ukrainian when Lesha decided to play football with them. The result is known - 8:0. The guy is just a hero! Such warriors should not only be awarded, but also shown on TV, so that the whole country would know him by sight, be proud, so that the rest would look up to him. But our MO sees everything through the eyes and mouth of Konashenkov ...
    On the topic of the article, I will say this, some kind of retractable masts and the like, this is already the past. Now any fighter on the front line knows. that the most dangerous weapon is a drone. He can kill, poison, direct artillery. Therefore, the future belongs to drones. I think that very soon all advanced tanks and infantry fighting vehicles will have a set of small drones with different functionality.
    And here's another moment, we have developed a network-centric battle system "Constellation", which calmly solves the tasks described in the article. Only now the problem turned out to be that the officials successfully failed the 12 wooden yards allocated for its fine-tuning and putting it on combat duty, stealing the allocated money. After that, Borisov from the vice-premiers went to steer space, and one general takes the rap for the whole company ...
  29. 0
    4 August 2023 00: 38
    Tanks are by definition blind. Drones won't fix this. The maximum that can be done is to hang video surveillance on the tank so that tankers do not have heads sticking out from under the armor. The issue price is 50k rubles. They don’t need ultrawhiston2000megabox cameras with 4k for a billion bucks, the most affordable ones are enough.
    1. 0
      5 August 2023 09: 24
      absolutely right. And if we also connect aircraft designers, then it will be possible to make the tanker see an adapted picture on the screens, as if from a window through the armor. Pilots have this technology.
  30. 0
    4 August 2023 00: 40
    Interesting article good And I completely agree that a new tank should be done. And by the way, about the fourth crew member. Yes, I agree. The tank needs to be serviced! ..... A lot more is needed. It is even possible instead of the possibility of firing at a direct ATGM. Make according to the example of barrage ammunition.
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. +4
    4 August 2023 03: 29
    What are you arguing? A few days of interviews with tankmen walks. They went on one mission, they had to repel the attack. They hit 2 targets, Artha did the rest of the work.
    Everyone is talking about tankers. They happened to be in fact on that battlefield. There are more questions about communications and command and control. The drone operators have no connection with the tankers. ATGMs ran out of missiles. The SPG-9 crew does not understand what is happening, where to shoot and who. In the negotiations, one can feel the fear that the "local fighters" might overwhelm their own tank. In general, some confusion and vacillation. In fact, the attack was repelled by a fluke. Perhaps the artillery crew acted more smoothly and was directed by another drone operator.
    Installing a UAV on a tank will not help until there is reliable and good communication and control between them. In fact, the battle showed that everyone is fighting alone. Art separately, tankers separately, infantry separately. At least in this sector of defense.
    1. 0
      4 August 2023 10: 10
      Technique was blown up by mines, art has nothing to do with it
      1. +2
        4 August 2023 12: 28
        I am surprised "the tank could not shoot because of the bushes, trees and smoke." It could and fired on the video, the smoke is clearly blown to the right by the wind and vice versa closes the view for enemy artillery, besides the tank maneuvers. About trees and bushes, but what do you know such a clearing? From the top it is a solid green massif, and on the ground just under the crowns of trees there is a passageway. It was precisely in this clearing that the Alyosha tank fired and evaded enemy observation, and this allowed the crew to be unnoticed by enemies. Who I carefully watched the video and heard the command "put aside the artillery strike." The tank and mines worked, which led to success. The crew of the good fellows used the situation to 100 and was able to emerge victorious and a hero.
        1. 0
          12 August 2023 13: 06
          The author wanted, without knowing the details, to fantasize on a free topic. Yes, and he was not interested in the details of that situation, it was to attract readers to the material.
  33. +1
    4 August 2023 07: 46
    There is not even the most elementary, closed connection, what other bells and whistles to write about? The crew could simply report what was happening ahead. And given the closure of the supply of copters by China, soon there won’t be what is.
  34. -1
    4 August 2023 09: 06
    It is curious which UAV helped the domestic crew make the right decisions and emerge victorious in a fight with the enemy. It is especially curious how the UAV prompted the crew of the tank without being afraid to go out alone on a column of enemy armored vehicles. And one warrior in the field winked good drinks
  35. +2
    4 August 2023 12: 02
    Again fantasy. Yes, ask that crew what they need! And in general - young people!
  36. The comment was deleted.
  37. -1
    4 August 2023 21: 09
    The fight was at a distance of a pistol shot. Everything in it is like "according to the textbook" - the tank tanked, the gunners and saushniks finished off, and, of course, mines. And situational awareness is the main problem of the tank for another hundred years ahead. All these external cameras, sensors and sensors are a body kit that can be easily removed by the rifleman. Personally, I believe that the Cold War concept tank has outlived its usefulness as a weapon category. What can be a replacement for a classic tank? A hybrid of a tank and an infantry fighting vehicle like a Merkava? A super armored drone carrier? There are more questions than answers here.
  38. 0
    5 August 2023 00: 42
    In this publication, the author considered several options for improving the situational awareness of armored vehicle crews. Unfortunately, now most likely it will not be possible to massively implement any of the options considered by the author.
    In my opinion, given the current economic conditions in our country, the most affordable option is the DJI Mavic 3T quadcopter with conventional and thermal imaging cameras. And an operator who will monitor the situation and inform the tank crew about what is happening around.
    And of course, we must strive to ensure that all our tanks are equipped with modern gunner's sights and commander's panoramic sights. As well as day and night (thermal imaging) cameras. Giving the tank crew the opportunity to observe the situation around the tank at close range at 360 °.
  39. -1
    5 August 2023 00: 48
    We need developed UAV units attached to tank ones. Not to every tank, but to a tank battalion. And the communication of operators with the crews and the battalion commander. Protected. All.
  40. 0
    6 August 2023 22: 43
    These shots again make us think about the need and ways to increase the situational awareness of armored vehicle crews, primarily MBT crews.

    If you listen to all 10 minutes of the recording, you can’t listen to it without tears ...
    One mate is worth something... :)
    In short, it becomes clear that there is no single connection - a continuous "spoiled phone": "tell him", "tell them to support", etc.
    News from the fields said that the tank’s comm only got in touch when it climbed out on some kind of walkie-talkie, as soon as it climbed into the armor, the connection was “blocked” ...
    Therefore, I did not hear any hints - warnings ...
    Then, in an interview, he himself said that everyone was fighting so recklessly ...
  41. -1
    7 August 2023 20: 55
    What sofa warriors don’t come up with, if only they don’t establish normal interaction between the branches of the military. Infantry normally trained to interact with tankers is both the eyes and ears of the tank, and also external target designation. You put at least 10 drones on the tank, while the tankers have analog walkie-talkies, this halabuda will not take off ...
    1. 0
      11 August 2023 23: 11
      Quote: Mobik
      What sofa warriors don’t come up with, if only they don’t establish normal interaction between the branches of the military. Infantry normally trained to interact with tankers is both the eyes and ears of the tank, and also external target designation. You put at least 10 drones on the tank, while the tankers have analog walkie-talkies, this halabuda will not take off ...


      Well, how to teach the infantry to move around the battlefield at a speed of at least 25-30 km / h, then immediately inform the non-couch warriors, they will be grateful to you. Watch the video of the fight. Estimate the speed with which the tank was rushing back and forth. Will you be able to follow the tank at that speed, being his ears and eyes? I suppose you will be only a burden for him, limiting his mobility to a speed of 5-7 km / h.
      The tank must be able to operate independently. Fully realizing the possibilities inherent in it.
  42. +1
    9 August 2023 19: 43
    There was a project to deploy a UAV on Aroma. Very smart. You don't need to manage it. It is necessary to put a beacon on the tank and set the following algorithm. The commander only controls the camera and sets the altitude. Higher - lower - return to base. Power and communication by wire. Such an UAV will be simply indispensable and will greatly increase the survivability and effectiveness of the tank on the battlefield.
  43. 0
    11 August 2023 08: 27
    Here, in the smoke and bushes, radar would have helped. But so far we have not heard that they are being implemented in our country.
  44. 0
    12 August 2023 12: 56
    /// it is not at all clear how the crew of a Russian tank was able to conduct aimed fire ///
    I have not read the book, but I have an opinion about the content.
  45. 0
    25 November 2023 11: 03
    There is no need to control the UAV, you need autonomous mode. Essentially, it should be a high-resolution flying camera with good software solutions.
    In essence, a gaming approach to presenting information should be implemented: a panoramic view from a third person, with the ability
    search and identification of targets.
  46. 0
    26 November 2023 18: 45
    Through the thermal imager you can clearly see through the smoke.