Military Review

From a hybrid engine to KAZ: some requirements for the European "tank of the future" are revealed

63
From a hybrid engine to KAZ: some requirements for the European "tank of the future" are revealed

After the creation of the European Defense Fund (EDF), all of its funds were spent on the purchase of materiel for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which caused growing criticism from European manufacturers. weapons. Against this background, it was decided to allocate 1,2 billion euros to finance military research within the EU.


In particular, 20 million euros will be allocated for the development of the so-called "European tank future” (MGCS program). At the same time, some requirements for a promising combat vehicle were revealed.

As stated in the RID publication, the developers should submit a design for a tank with the following characteristics: hybrid propulsion [apparently to maintain the vehicle's environmental friendliness], long-range kill capability, reduced signature, thermal wake control capability, equipment integration, superior situational awareness, active protection against drones [KAZ], reduced crew (preferably up to two members).

According to the author, the small amount allocated by EDF for the development of the tank should not be embarrassing, since the main funding comes from the countries participating in the program.

All in all, no matter what anyone says, the MGCS horizon is not that far off and the EU is accelerating on that front.

- the author concludes.
63 comments
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  1. Orange Bigg
    Orange Bigg 29 July 2023 20: 48
    +9
    Powerful video. The Armored Group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine tried to break through to Rabotino: the Orekhov Spartans defeated everyone. Just some kind of Prokhorovka 2.0.
    https://dzen.ru/video/watch/64c5198884efff1b5ae88555
    1. dmi.pris1
      dmi.pris1 29 July 2023 21: 24
      -1
      They trophied the Swedish bempeh. The commander hooted, the rest fled. They crashed into the tower from the organized crime group
      1. Orange Bigg
        Orange Bigg 29 July 2023 21: 54
        +1
        Here is another video where two tanks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were mined. The tank was torn off the tower. A hot attack on Belogorovka. Everything is in the smoke. The 7th brigade destroys the enemy.
        https://dzen.ru/video/watch/64c50bbe717d9d3ccf83aa95
    2. RVAPatriot
      RVAPatriot 29 July 2023 21: 28
      0
      They themselves climb under the shot places. The roof has already leaked...
    3. Andrey “andrewTSO” D
      Andrey “andrewTSO” D 29 July 2023 23: 31
      +3
      Some kind of Prokhorovka 2.0

      Cooler than this will be this: https://dzen.ru/video/watch/64c4d5171516817251e729da
      Just be aware - a LOT of swearing
      1. stankow
        stankow 29 July 2023 23: 59
        +3
        What a decisive rapprochement!! At full speed!! Sina called at the TV, let him see. You can see this once in a lifetime!
        Has the tank outlived its usefulness? Does a tank fight tanks? Well done!
      2. The comment was deleted.
  2. Michael
    Michael 29 July 2023 20: 51
    +1
    MGCS - Main Ground Combat System (Main Ground Combat System).
    1. Serg koma
      Serg koma 30 July 2023 07: 29
      +1
      Quote: Michael
      MGCS- Main Ground Combat System


      What does VO become? Empty chatter, fantasy and other rubbish pluses belay
      The exact transcript (in the post on the topic of the article) of the abbreviation MGCS gets a minus ...
      Probably it's time for the admins to start "cleansing the ranks" among the participants to identify inadequate ones.
  3. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 July 2023 20: 58
    0
    "hybrid power plant [apparently to maintain the environmental friendliness of the machine]," ///
    ----
    In order to silently get close to the front edge.
    1. Vitaly161
      Vitaly161 29 July 2023 21: 03
      +2
      and then burn with fireworks because it was burned from the copter, wrap 2 please)))
    2. Grim Reaper
      Grim Reaper 29 July 2023 21: 06
      0
      No. It's like African Americans. Because it is necessary. :)
    3. Repellent
      Repellent 29 July 2023 21: 08
      +4
      Quote: voyaka uh
      In order to silently get close to the leading edge

      He needs more red eyes. Like an elephant. To hide in tomatoes.

      I imagined a tank silently creeping towards the front line. Chetarzhu. laughing
      1. Simple
        Simple 30 July 2023 11: 54
        +1
        Quote: Repellent
        I imagined a tank silently creeping towards the front line. Chetarzhu.



        There is an anecdote roaming the expanses of the Bundeswehr:

        The panzergrenadier must look for an area with tall grass for his tank: there is where to hide, at the same time the horse is provided with fodder.
    4. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 29 July 2023 21: 17
      +5
      Quote: voyaka uh
      In order to silently get close to the front edge.

      This is the first. And the second is a decrease in the IR signature of the product. By analogy with the UAV. Then ATGMs with IR GOS would not "notice" him. AHA!!! It’s the Javelins that fly like that ... And ours are more and more running along the laser path, and working according to the TLV portrait ... Yes
      But yes, let them make fun of themselves: either their war is hybrid, or the dviguns are now going to "hybridize". One word - gardeners-Michurintsy some! bully
      1. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 30 July 2023 04: 51
        -2
        Quote: BoA KAA
        Quote: voyaka uh
        In order to silently get close to the front edge.

        This is the first. And the second is a decrease in the IR signature of the product.
        ...
        One word - gardeners-Michurintsy some! bully

        There is a wonderful way out for the sake of ecology and I-signature - to switch to horse-drawn traction. And shod horses in felt slippers. For the sake of silence. lol
    5. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 29 July 2023 21: 28
      +5
      Dear Warrior. And what will this hybrid tank do when overcoming minefields, go on tiptoe, taking off the goose, so as not to make noise. Why do you have such an army in Israel? With specialists like you, you will never cope with the Palestinians. Your comment on the account of getting silently to the front line suffers from idiocy. Are there good psychiatrists in Israel? The war is not at all what everyone was preparing for, a mine worth $ 1000 turns an armored object worth $ 3-6 million into firewood, I’m not talking about drones at all. "Barbecues" - These are flowers, but what will happen next?
      1. Simple
        Simple 30 July 2023 11: 50
        0
        Quote: tralflot1832
        "Barbecues" are flowers, but what will happen next?


        A tank on the battlefield with an equal enemy turns into an expensive consumable, so the MGCS program welcomes the crew reduction to two people.
    6. bk0010
      bk0010 29 July 2023 21: 32
      +5
      Quote: voyaka uh
      In order to silently get close to the front edge.
      The tank is not a submarine, it rumbles by itself. Apparently there is a problem with the gearbox. Or they decided to provide more peak power. Or install several electric motors (replace sloths with sprockets (drive wheel) and put 4 electric motors, one for each sprocket).
    7. astepanov
      astepanov 29 July 2023 21: 39
      +4
      Quote: voyaka uh
      In order to silently get close to the front edge.
      And let's count. For wheeled transport on a highway, the specific energy consumption is 0,12 kWh/ton-kilometer. It is clear that the tank will drive to the front line not along the highway, but along the ground, often muddy or plowed, or on virgin snow. That is why engines with a power of 1000 kW are put on tanks. And caterpillars with a complex transmission themselves eat energy oh-she-she. Therefore, we will take the energy consumption at least four times higher than for a passenger car - 0,5 kWh / ton-kilometer. Then for a tank weighing 55 tons, the onboard battery charge should be 27,5 kWh per kilometer of travel. If the front line is only three km away, then you need a battery of 82,5 kWh. Modern lithium-ion batteries have an energy capacity of up to 0,12 kWh/kg, but those that do not explode upon breakdown (and these are lithium iron phosphate and lithium titanate batteries) have a specific energy intensity of no more than 0,12 kWh/kg. From here, a battery weighing at least 687 kg is needed to drive to the front line. You need to add peripherals to it: a converter, electric motors. In total, it will pull a ton. And under a cubic meter of space. And there is not much space in the tank anyway.
      I suppose that a hybrid is needed to increase the engine life by removing peak loads, to reduce fuel consumption (and fuel is primarily logistics), to reduce luminosity in the infrared range. Noise reduction is a bonus.
      A hybrid armored personnel carrier (wheeled) was tested in Russia about ten years ago. It matched TT. Work has been stopped.
      1. astepanov
        astepanov 29 July 2023 22: 02
        +2
        Quote: astepanov
        have an energy intensity of up to 0,12 kWh/kg,

        call, citizens, the ochepyatka came out. Up to 0,2 kWh/kg
        1. good
          good 30 July 2023 10: 31
          0
          We need a hybrid because it is necessary, and not because it is effective, well, or they are not going to fight, but only to train. On the other hand, there is a long-established scheme on large mining dump trucks, where, in fact, like in a diesel locomotive, the internal combustion engine works as a generator rotator and the battery is generally not needed, you can even use a gas turbine engine if you want richly expensive :)) batteries in heavy equipment, well such a thing, even a tank would have been made on a solar battery ...
    8. Alekseev
      Alekseev 29 July 2023 22: 05
      +6
      In order to silently get close ...
      So that no one guesses. wink
      The author saw the tank only in the picture.
      Let me explain, the fact is that the tank hardly travels along the highway, but on the terrain or broken primer m / v it presses the gas "to the floor", i.e. the power plant operates in a mode close to the maximum constantly. How will the battery be charged here if all the power goes to the leading "asterisks"? How much should the battery, generator and el weigh. engine? What about complexity and cost? Too complex and whimsical weapons do not justify themselves in conditions that are very different from the range ones, especially when the enemy can conduct active fire damage not only to troops, but also to repair and maintenance units.
    9. poquello
      poquello 29 July 2023 22: 30
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      "hybrid power plant [apparently to maintain the environmental friendliness of the machine]," ///
      ----
      In order to silently get close to the front edge.

      oh, spring foresters still need to be added and dutik wheels
  4. Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 29 July 2023 21: 04
    +3
    hybrid power plant [apparently to maintain the environmental friendliness of the machine],
    ..........
    Bravo!
    1. Orange Bigg
      Orange Bigg 29 July 2023 21: 08
      +6
      The wind generator will be introduced into the tank. The tank will work from the wind generator. Green energy. A green lawn and a couple of bushes will be planted on top of the tank, and it will be environmentally friendly and camouflage at a height. Crew waste can be used as fertilizer. You can even
      plant a couple of bushes of something edible on top of the tank. There are raspberries, gooseberries. What else is there? The crew of the tank is one family. In the truest sense of the word. Parent number 1, parent number 2, parent number 3 with African roots, and the dog is also an equal member of the family, as parent number 4.
      1. Grim Reaper
        Grim Reaper 29 July 2023 21: 24
        +1
        I don’t know about gooseberries, but raspberries grow very well in the cemetery.
    2. Poplar
      Poplar 30 July 2023 16: 21
      +1
      Yeah, to maintain environmental friendliness, the tank must be made of biodegradable material, or at least so that pure oxygen or water is released when the tank burns. :-)
  5. antivirus
    antivirus 29 July 2023 21: 06
    +1
    Fight in Antarctica? Or sugar? I will help to optimize costs: T50-60 will be leased. 500-1000 pcs.
  6. Rumata
    Rumata 29 July 2023 21: 08
    +1
    hybrid power plant [apparently to maintain the environmental friendliness of the machine]

    The author thinks he was joking, but in fact he was arguing absolute nonsense.
    A hybrid power plant can significantly reduce power, which means the weight and dimensions of the internal combustion engine component.
    The electric motor will increase the power of the power plant during periods of operation at maximum power.
    1. Vitaly161
      Vitaly161 29 July 2023 21: 19
      +2
      but the electric motor doesn’t weigh anything? and doesn’t it need a battery assembly to operate and propel the tank? don’t write nonsense, there’s nothing more reliable than an omnivorous diesel engine
      1. Rumata
        Rumata 29 July 2023 21: 27
        -1
        Quote: Vitaliy161
        but the electric motor doesn’t weigh anything? and doesn’t it need a battery assembly to operate and propel the tank?

        The gain from reducing the weight of the internal combustion engine is greater than the weight of the electrical component.
        By the way, an omnivorous turbocharger is more reliable than a diesel engine. Problems with fuel consumption.
        Z.Y. Not anything/nothing, but nothing.)))
        1. Vitaly161
          Vitaly161 29 July 2023 21: 59
          +3
          yes, only Akum for a ton and a half will be needed + some kind of internal combustion engine for 600-700 mares, where will you place all this? besides, the Akum themselves are quite dangerous and extremely whimsical in service, and besides, they are expensive, and then any modern tank is designed and under the maintenance of a database in the conditions of the use of nuclear weapons, and one of the damaging factors of nuclear weapons is EMP
          1. astepanov
            astepanov 29 July 2023 22: 09
            -5
            Quote: Vitaliy161
            Yes, there are only Akum per ton and a half will be needed
            Where is the number from? From the ceiling? Justify.
            Quote: Vitaliy161
            any modern tank is designed and under the maintenance of a database in the conditions of the use of nuclear weapons, and one of the damaging factors of nuclear weapons is EMP
            And how will EMP affect the battery? It won't affect the electronics, it won't affect the crew either, but the battery will immediately explode?
        2. bayard
          bayard 29 July 2023 22: 47
          +2
          Quote: Rumata
          The gain from reducing the weight of the internal combustion engine is greater than the weight of the electrical component.

          And what will be the source of energy in this wonderful installation? Or fight with batteries on tanks? How about solar powered?
          I understand that electric transmission is now in vogue, and they tried to implement it back in Hitler's Germany on one of the prototypes of the "Tiger" ... but fantasies need to know the measure. Diesel or turbine on such a tank will still be. But this whole combination will be much more expensive than the classics.
          We definitely don't need this.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 29 July 2023 21: 23
      +3
      Quote: Rumata
      The electric motor will increase the power of the power plant during periods of operation at maximum power.

      Oh how! What about the law of conservation of energy.
      Or did you still invent perpetual motion machines with multiplication of the power of the power unit .. straight from the "ether" !? fellow
      1. Repellent
        Repellent 29 July 2023 21: 38
        +4
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Or did you invent perpetual motion machines

        No. He will put an outlet in the tank. And it will feed the electric motors from it. Yes laughing
      2. astepanov
        astepanov 29 July 2023 21: 59
        -3
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Oh how! What about the law of conservation of energy.

        What is the law of conservation of energy? And what does it have to do with power? And by the way, have you heard that the efficiency of an electric motor is under 100%, the battery in the charge-discharge cycle has an efficiency of 90% and an internal combustion engine efficiency of only 30-40%? You just have to crow, but you don’t want to look into the holy calendar.
        1. bayard
          bayard 30 July 2023 01: 05
          +1
          Quote: astepanov
          By the way, have you heard that the efficiency of an electric motor is under 100%, the battery in the charge-discharge cycle has an efficiency of 90% and an internal combustion engine efficiency of only 30-40%?

          And what ? WHERE are you for this battery and an electric motor with such wonderful efficiency ... Will you take ELECTRICITY?
          From an outlet?
          Or will you install a diesel engine or a turbine as a generator?
          And a dynamo. bully
          And what will you get?
          And then it will turn out - a HYBRID installation (as it is fashionable to call it now) in which there is an internal combustion engine or a turbine, a dynamo, running electric motors and lithium-ion batteries. bully
          And now calculate the cost of all this splendor and compare with the classic diesel power plant and travel gears on each side. wink
          No, you will most likely be able to achieve fuel economy ... but will it help in combat? smile
          And how ... no - HOW lithium-ion batteries burn along with fuel and all this electrical engineering ... fellow Yes they burn wonderfully.
      3. bayard
        bayard 29 July 2023 22: 49
        +1
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Or did you still invent perpetual motion machines with multiplication of the power of the power unit .. straight from the "ether" !?

        To do this, you need a bucket of "red mercury" ... and it (according to liberals) does not exist in nature.
    3. alexoff
      alexoff 29 July 2023 21: 25
      +1
      Only instead of a compact internal combustion engine, you will have to screw in a very non-compact battery. In general, the battery in order to move the tank must be of considerable size, and it will burn if something is a feast for the eyes
      1. Vitaly161
        Vitaly161 29 July 2023 21: 30
        +1
        Dak Akum will be the most vulnerable and dangerous node, it will also have to be armored from 30-60mm autocannons, and this is already from 100mm armor of the side feed .... yes, it will be some kind of tin, not a tank)
        1. Repellent
          Repellent 29 July 2023 21: 36
          +1
          Quote: Vitaliy161
          it tin-plate what it will be, not a tank)

          ... hundred millimeter belay laughing
      2. Rumata
        Rumata 29 July 2023 21: 36
        0
        Quote from alexoff
        Only instead of a compact internal combustion engine, you will have to screw in a very non-compact battery. In general, the battery in order to move the tank must be of considerable size, and it will burn if something is a feast for the eyes

        Your statement requires confirmation by serious calculations. Hybrid cars weigh no more than conventional ICEs.
        The battery should not move the tank on its own - only help the internal combustion engine if necessary.
        1. Repellent
          Repellent 29 July 2023 21: 46
          0
          Quote: Rumata
          The battery should not move the tank on its own - only help the internal combustion engine if necessary

          ... at the same time, it, the battery, must be constantly carried on a hump. And recharge from time to time. At the same time, no one canceled the efficiency of less than 100%.

          So-so idea, IMHO. Yes

          - Gene, Gene! Let me carry my things, will you carry me?
          - You thought it up well, Cheburashka ...
          1. astepanov
            astepanov 29 July 2023 22: 13
            0
            Quote: Repellent
            And recharge from time to time.
            And what, the battery of a hybrid car needs to be recharged? belay This is a new word in the automotive industry.
            1. Repellent
              Repellent 29 July 2023 22: 46
              +2
              Quote: astepanov
              Quote: Repellent
              And recharge from time to time.
              And what, the battery of a hybrid car needs to be recharged? belay This is a new word in the automotive industry.

              This is called "bad mail". So you look at the letter, and you understand - it didn’t reach ...

              And than to ask again - climb to teach ... carelessly on your part. wink

              I am talking about the fact that for a tank in the conditions of the database, you are unlikely to find a comfortable electric refueling anywhere. Accordingly, you will charge the acc ... ta-da-a-amm ... from the tank engine. Further, in my opinion, even a hedgehog understands ... see above, in short.
        2. Vitaly161
          Vitaly161 29 July 2023 22: 03
          0
          you are comparing the incomparable, both in terms of mass and operating conditions
        3. velikoros-xnumx
          velikoros-xnumx 30 July 2023 00: 24
          +1
          Quote: Rumata
          Quote from alexoff
          Only instead of a compact internal combustion engine, you will have to screw in a very non-compact battery. In general, the battery in order to move the tank must be of considerable size, and it will burn if something is a feast for the eyes

          Your statement requires confirmation by serious calculations.. Hybrid cars weigh no more than conventional ICEs.
          The battery should not move the tank on its own - only help the internal combustion engine if necessary.

          Actually, like yours up the branch, it also requires calculations - "The gain from reducing the weight of the internal combustion engine is greater than the weight of the electrical component."
          And it's like farting into a puddle, there seems to be no sound, but the smell is the same.
        4. Alex777
          Alex777 30 July 2023 12: 55
          0
          Quote: Rumata
          Hybrid cars weigh no more than conventional ICEs.

          You are wrong. All hybrids are heavier and noticeable.
          Power is higher, but acceleration to 100 km / h is longer.
          There will be some fuel savings, but at the same time
          the cost of ownership will be much higher. hi
        5. alexoff
          alexoff 30 July 2023 21: 27
          0
          And you google the mass of the battery in Tesla, but multiply by ten so that it could somehow move the tank.
    4. ism_ek
      ism_ek 29 July 2023 21: 33
      +2
      I doubt that in terms of dimensions and power, the hybrid will outdo the GTU. But in terms of efficiency and, accordingly, the power reserve, the hybrid has no equal.
      But in my opinion, the defining characteristic of military equipment, among other things, should be its price. We don't need a hybrid, it's too complicated and expensive.
      1. A2AD
        A2AD 30 July 2023 05: 38
        +1
        But in terms of efficiency and, accordingly, the power reserve, the hybrid has no equal.
        This is valid only for a passenger car in a conditional urban cycle. Even when driving on the highway, after 15 minutes, the car drains the entire battery and then travels only due to the internal combustion engine, while losing energy on energy conversion and dragging a bunch of useless junk with it.
    5. A2AD
      A2AD 30 July 2023 05: 21
      0
      A hybrid power plant can significantly reduce power, which means the weight and dimensions of the internal combustion engine component.
      Yeah. And the generator, electric motor and battery will go in the back of the cart?
    6. Alekseev
      Alekseev 30 July 2023 09: 01
      +1
      See above.
      The tank, unlike a light car, works at maximum power almost all the time.
      Something before bulldozers - no one thought of hybrids,
      but verbiage triumphs about tanks.
  7. Observer2014
    Observer2014 29 July 2023 21: 44
    +1
    What armor and from what do not make a tank. All the same, modern weapons will knock out any car. Otherwise, it will not budge under its own weight. The only thing that will leave the tank relevant as a combat unit. This is the creation of reliable and modern KAZ! It is the active protection systems that will allow the tank to remain a tank in the future. I've been talking and I won't stop talking. We need KAZ for our tanks. And on the BMP. Without them. They are just targets on the battlefield.
  8. Enceladus
    Enceladus 29 July 2023 22: 20
    -1
    reduced crew (preferably up to two members).

    And of course from the LGBT community... members... of the crew! laughing good So that it was not boring in the tank, turned on the autopilot and forward with the song
  9. alystan
    alystan 29 July 2023 22: 24
    +1
    The European Defense Fund (EDF) - all of its funds have gone and are going to purchase materiel for the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    The European Peace Fund (EPF) - all of its funds have been and are being spent on the purchase of weapons for the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

    The European Social Fund (ESF), the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF), the European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development (ELFLA) and all the others have clearly switched, if not to support the Armed Forces, then Ukraine itself.
  10. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 29 July 2023 22: 48
    +1
    Reducing the crew to 2 people is generally a progressive approach, a driver + commander or something like that. Reducing the volume for the crew to increase the booking and improve the lineup. The idea of ​​​​a tank on an electric motor seems to me to be potential nonsense, although in general this can be put into the concept of a tank for defense with a creak. For sales, it will definitely not be an ice idea ..
    The approach, in general, is rather abstract and not revolutionary. Meanwhile, in the design of the tank, the need for quite radical changes has ripened ..
    1. Enceladus
      Enceladus 29 July 2023 22: 54
      0
      Increasing the load on the tank commander. To do this, you need an AI-based system that evaluates the situation on the battlefield and issues suggestions - the commander makes a decision - then yes. And this is still far away. Or transfer the functions of the gunner, for example, to a remote operator, but then the question of electronic warfare combat becomes acute. It's one thing to lose a drone - another thing is an MBT worth a lot. Although in this case, of course, the commander can take over the functions of the gunner temporarily.
      1. cold wind
        cold wind 29 July 2023 22: 59
        +2
        The EMBT has a 4 crew member "operator", instead of a loader. This is the most effective version of the commander overload problem.
        1. Knell wardenheart
          Knell wardenheart 29 July 2023 23: 32
          +1
          European contractors are not our scripts, there must be different conditions for them in the tank, this tradition did not appear yesterday and is not going to go anywhere. The more bloated the crew, the bigger the car becomes, because everyone needs to provide such conditions. The mass grows, the security falls, the projection grows, etc. Of course, the maintenance of archaisms can last quite a long time, but by analogy with other types of equipment, a reduction in the crew due to automation is inevitable.
      2. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 29 July 2023 23: 28
        +1
        This is not a question of my taste preferences - it is a question of the need to further increase the tank's security without further increasing the mass. Human functions are transferred to electronics - the same charger not only takes up space (in which it is necessary to maintain the proper conditions for the functioning of a person), receives money, he needs to be trained, insured, fed, etc. From the point of view of the military economy over the course of decades, this adds up to substantial amounts, not to mention the fact that a healthy boar needs to be diverted from a niche where it makes a profit - to a niche where it consumes it.
        There is also an economic aspect of further reduction, in addition to the development of technical stuffing and the need to increase performance characteristics without overcoming price or weight and size limits.
        To the question of "the possibility of assessing the situation on the battlefield" - in fairness, even a very trained person, due to the speed limitations of the brain or eyes, will not be able to assess the ALL situation on the battlefield exactly what is "excellent". Some separate, thoroughbred specimens - of course, but, as we understand it, they are probably a minority. Have you read the story of John Henry? Which competed with a steam machine for hammering sleepers. Well, he won. And what ? There was only one conditional John Henry, and conditional steam hammers could be stirred up 100500, and they do not age, do not get sick, do not disperse, and so on. The introduction of technological solutions follows the same logic - they do not have to be IN PRINCIPLE better than a person, it is enough for them to be better than a certain average person in terms of a set of parameters. For example, you are sure that the "pebble" based on the topology of some 7 nm. so badly cope with this very assessment and bringing important information to the display to the captain? I note that in aviation this approach has long ruled the ball in one form or another - and nothing, they fly, the end of the world has not come.
        A similar approach will inevitably come to the armored forces - and as for the loss of MBT, any losses are inevitable. However, losses are different - the tank may be damaged but recoverable, the crew may be alive or dead. Under better security conditions, a crew of 2 is more likely to survive than a crew of three under worse conditions. Yes, it may not save the car - but here the question is, will it not save in what paradigm of actions? The Europeans clearly proceed in this paradigm that tanks will be used for predominantly defensive operations in the EU. Otherwise, there would not have been this hybrid nonsense, with which any "blitz" is immediately forget it. Yes, and a crew of 2 people in terms of "blitz" is clearly a losing solution.
        Here, in the context of this paradigm of thinking, the retirement of equipment with its subsequent repair is a normal phenomenon. The main thing is that the crew survive. They have a lot of rembases there and the logistics are well established. If it can be fixed, it will be fixed.
        I specifically emphasize the idea - modern technology is, in principle, not some kind of KV-1, it has a lot of body kits and bells and whistles, its repair is a normal phenomenon. And conceptually, what they do is not an invulnerable super fortress, it's a different idea.
  11. Vadim Topal Pasha
    Vadim Topal Pasha 30 July 2023 13: 56
    0
    Quote: d0bry
    We need a hybrid because it is necessary, and not because it is effective, well, or they are not going to fight, but only to train. On the other hand, there is a long-established scheme on large mining dump trucks, where, in fact, like in a diesel locomotive, the internal combustion engine works as a generator rotator and the battery is generally not needed, you can even use a gas turbine engine if you want richly expensive :)) batteries in heavy equipment, well such a thing, even a tank would have been made on a solar battery ...


    You are so backward ... I'm talking about the history of technology.

    Two prototypes participated in the competition for the future "Tiger" in the IIIm Reich. From Anders (he won) and from Porsche (lost). But the loser managed to build a hundred buildings. He hoped that the land (Hitler) would help him win the competition. Land tried and failed. But he helped to attach the produced buildings. 5 pre-production tanks were used as training tanks. And another 97 buildings were converted into SU "Ferdinand" (aka "Elephant"). So, these Porsche brainchildren had generators bolted to the engine, and electric motors were in the wheels! And it was FSE STE in 1941-42. In 1943 "Ferdinands" were used on the Kursk Bulge.

    But that is not all! Even at the end of WWI for the Czech Republic (part of Austria-Hungary), the same Porsche for 12D (305mm) TOWED guns created conveyors with the same transmission scheme.

    That is, the scheme did not work on mining dump trucks, but on real military equipment participating in real hostilities MORE THAN A HUNDRED years ago!

    ZY, at least you read the Classics ... / blushes modestly / :)
    1. “From Hitler to Shoigu. Heavy military equipment in Russia. Part I Between I and II MB. http://trymava.rf/?p=29187
    2. "Whose heavy military equipment will crawl across the expanses of Russia?" https://trymava.rf/?p=29313
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