Russian troops captured the territories of the Molchanovo station and approached the eastern bank of the Oskol River north of Kupyansk

Russian troops with fighting continue to occupy the territory of the forest and settlements north of Kupyansk. Information about the withdrawal of Russian troops to the Molchanovo railway station and the village of Liman Pervy is being confirmed. These areas are surrounded by forest. The cleansing was completed there, the fortified positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were occupied, several groups of Ukrainian military personnel, including junior officers, were taken prisoner.

In the area of ​​the Molchanovo station, Russian troops reached the Oskol River, which today is turning into a dividing line in the east of the Kharkov region. It makes no sense to create positions directly on the left bank of the Oskol north of Kupyansk, since it is lower than the right bank. However, the advance through the forest in the direction directly to Kupyansk continues and is supported by artillery, which is located on the heights east of the Oskol floodplain.

The Ukrainian command, realizing the prospect of a possible hit of its Kupyansk garrison in pincers (and Russian troops are moving towards the city from the southeast), is transferring units of two reserve brigades. These brigades include subdivisions of the Kharkov Troops (Territorial Defense), which are tasked with preventing the RF Armed Forces from gaining a foothold on the left bank of the Oskol and reaching the northern quarters of Kupyansk.

In turn, the Russian troops stepped up the actions of the front aviation in this direction, causing damage, among other things, to Ukrainian reserves approaching Kupyansk.

As one of the Ukrainian mobilized prisoners stated, he started the battles just south of Gryanikovka, and when now he had to fire from the "fortification" under the First Liman, he realized that "the counterattack was going in the opposite direction." For reference: Gryanikovka is located north of Liman Pervy and earlier came under the control of the RF Armed Forces.

Comments

[Thrifty]

That's what infuriates, So the fact that the vushniks simply build fortified areas without thinking about which coast is higher ..

[Terenin]

Quote: Thrifty

That's what infuriates, So the fact that the vushniks simply build fortified areas without thinking about which coast is higher ..

So it's the same as in a dash. There the river is no more than 50-100 meters wide. And what equipment will you bring there?
And, the trenches were definitely dug according to the Charter (self-digging with the help of a trench tool)

[nik-mazur]

It makes no sense to create positions directly on the left bank of the Oskol north of Kupyansk, since it is lower than the right bank

Can anyone explain clearly what is the significance of a higher bank if artillery strikes for forty kilometers?

[1976AG]

Quote from: nik-mazur

It makes no sense to create positions directly on the left bank of the Oskol north of Kupyansk, since it is lower than the right bank

Can anyone explain clearly what is the significance of a higher bank if artillery strikes for forty kilometers?

So it’s necessary not only to hit, but to identify and hit targets, and this is much easier when they are in direct line of sight.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: 1976AG

identify and hit targets, and it is much easier when they are in line of sight

And who is now hitting targets with direct fire? Now targets are identified by drones, and they hit from a distance of 10 kilometers or more.

[1976AG]

"And who is now hitting targets with direct fire?"

The most important thing is to find the target. This is easier to do when the target is in line of sight. At the same time, the observer is in a camouflaged position and it is very difficult to detect him, while he himself has a good view. The drone, from the moment it takes off, immediately runs the risk of being detected and soon destroyed, and whether it will have time to complete its task is not at all a fact.

"Now targets are identified by drones, and they hit from a distance of 10 kilometers or more."

Not always and not all targets are further than 10 km. Enemy forward positions are usually much closer. So why unmask yourself with drones if the enemy can be detected absolutely covertly?

[Serg koma]

Quote from: nik-mazur

And who is now hitting targets with direct fire? Now targets are identified by drones, and they hit from a distance of 10 kilometers or more.

It’s easier and cheaper to aim and hit from the sofa

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

And who is now hitting targets with direct fire?

Tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.

[bk316]

And who is now hitting targets with direct fire?

Who the hell is.
ATGMs, snipers, tankers, AGSmen ....
But that's not the point . The fact is that the spotter sees better and sits in safety. Drones are not an option, every glance from a drone is expensive if the enemy has electronic warfare.

[Horon]

Can anyone explain clearly what is the significance of a higher bank if artillery strikes for forty kilometers?

When you look from above, visibility is better and enemy positions are better seen, or rather the work of artillery. Even without the use of drones, it is possible to adjust the firing. Positions are not visible from below, it is more difficult to determine the positions of the enemy. The fact that the height began to matter, relative to the enemy, indicates the virtual absence of the factor of aviation and aerial reconnaissance.

[t-12]

When you look from above

From above now look drones. Instantly calculate the coordinates and hit with artillery. Well, or they throw grenades from the same drones.

[Horon]

Quote: t-12

When you look from above

From above now look drones. Instantly calculate the coordinates and hit with artillery. Well, or they throw grenades from the same drones.

Exactly until the moment when the enemy begins to use the reb.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Horon

When you look from above, visibility is better and enemy positions are better visible

Already, as much as five kilometers from a height against four from a lowland. And artillery fires from ten kilometers or more.

Quote: Horon

The fact that the height began to matter, relative to the enemy, indicates the virtual absence of the factor of aviation and aerial reconnaissance

And a huge number of UAVs on both sides is no longer aerial reconnaissance? Or do you need reconnaissance aircraft, like in World War II?

[1976AG]

"Quote: Horon
When you look from above, visibility is better and enemy positions are better visible
Already, as much as five kilometers from a height against four from a lowland. And artillery fires from ten kilometers or more."

Of course, it also depends on the height difference. I live on a high bank of the river and from me the opposite side is visible no less than 20 km away.

[bk316]

I live on a high bank of the river and from me the opposite side is visible no less than 20 km away.

So this is normal if the low coast is flat, and this usually happens.

[Horon]

Already, as much as five kilometers from a height against four from a lowland. And artillery fires from ten kilometers or more.

There is such a thing as "folds in the terrain", and so if you look at the ravine below, you can even see its bottom, but if you look from below, then only its edge will be visible, respectively, maneuvers inside these folds will be carried out with different results for the parties. Artillery needs to know where to hit, if the spotter cannot see all the maneuvers of the enemy, then artillery will have to hit areas, "somewhere in the wrong direction", and this will reduce the effectiveness of strikes and increase the consumption of scarce ammunition.

And the huge number of UAVs on both sides is no longer aerial reconnaissance?

In addition to reb, drones are affected by such things as line of sight. The higher the control station, the further the drone can fly and the less the influence of the enemy's reb.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Horon

The higher the control station, the farther the drone can fly

The only reasonable argument.

[bk316]

The only reasonable argument.

You Nikolai evaluate everything by toys.
Try to think. Two options.
1. A spotter sits in a trench on a mountain and looks with disguised optics at a line-of-sight distance of 10 kilometers.
2. The spotter sits in the dugout and looks at what the drone camera transmits there.

It would seem that the second option is better.
However, in the real world in the second option
1. The spotter runs the risk of being detected by radio emission and destroyed by something long-range.
2. The drone has a high probability of being hit by the enemy.
3. Drones are always in short supply.
4. The drone hangs in the air for minutes, maximum tens of minutes (but this is already something serious and expensive)
5. The drone needs to be charged constantly.

[Romario_Argo]

in short everything takes time
on a high bank only on foot without the cover of an infantry fighting vehicle - and these are losses
and protect it only with small arms PKM, AGS, RPO, RPG
neither an infantry fighting vehicle with a 30-mm machine gun for direct fire, nor a T-72B3 tank or even a T-80BVM with a 125-mm gun will drive there, IMR barrier vehicles are needed to create passages
and the flanks have not yet been cleared
and the fact that art works from closed positions is a long time

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Romario_Argo

on a high bank only on foot without the cover of an infantry fighting vehicle - and these are losses
and protect it only with small arms PKM, AGS, RPO, RPG
neither an infantry fighting vehicle with a 30-mm machine gun for direct fire, nor a T-72B3 tank or even a T-80BVM with a 125-mm gun will drive there, IMR barrier vehicles are needed to create passages
and the flanks have not yet been cleared
and the fact that art works from closed positions is a long time

but 80-90% of the losses in this conflict, while - from artillery .. therefore the rest is secondary ..

[Romario_Argo]

I agree, without covering the infantry with armor, fire from infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers and tanks, nowhere

[Leshak]

... on a high bank only on foot without the cover of an infantry fighting vehicle - and these are losses and protect it only with PKM, AGS, RPO, RPG small arms ...

This is where the experience and skill of PMC Wagner would come in handy. But they, now, are resting in Belarus.

[Romario_Argo]

here the FSB Voin-KM armored suits of 30 kg would come in handy for motorized riflemen. protection area 2 sq.m. from Forth Technology

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Romario_Argo

on a high bank only on foot without the cover of an infantry fighting vehicle - and these are losses

I didn’t understand anything: why is it necessary to go high without infantry fighting vehicles and only with small arms? Again, on the contrary, from a high bank, how?

[bk316]

as an option, our airborne forces are stationed there, they have floating BREM-L with a 3-meter blade, they can make passes in the high bank for tanks,

Let the BMP not climb because on such a hill ....

[Doctor]

in short everything takes time
on a high bank only on foot without the cover of an infantry fighting vehicle - and these are losses
and protect it only with small arms PKM, AGS, RPO, RPG
neither an infantry fighting vehicle with a 30-mm machine gun for direct fire, nor a T-72B3 tank or even a T-80BVM with a 125-mm gun will drive there, IMR barrier vehicles are needed to create passages
and the flanks have not yet been cleared
and the fact that art works from closed positions is a long time

Here is a photo of the area right in this area, this is Oskol in the Dvuruchnoye area.

You need to approach the river, force it, overcome the minefields, which probably studded the space from the river to the foot of the chalk mountain, and then climb the mountain itself. All this under heavy fire from inaccessible to our artillery, reverse slopes.
IMRs will die on the approaches, and they are not needed.

[Romario_Argo]

as an option, our airborne forces are stationed there, they have floating BREM-L with a 3-meter blade, they can make passes in the high bank for tanks, just from the water's edge in the photo
under the cover of a company of 9 BMD-4 and 3-4 tanks from our shore

[bk316]

as an option, our airborne forces are stationed there, they have floating BREM-L with a 3-meter blade, they can make passes in the high bank for tanks,

How will they get up the hill?

[Romario_Argo]

I understand what you are getting at
but you don’t need to go up the hill, his TOSs will work out and then the DRG
and the infantry along the bottom of the hill to clear the flanks under the cover of armor and tanks from both banks

[bk316]

but you don’t need to go up the hill, his TOSs will work out and then the DRG

If everything is so simple, then why didn’t they do it a little further south in the Serebryansky forestry, where there are no hills? And in general, why are both sides fighting so much for the dominant hills?
Speaking of TOC and hills. You probably served in the SA. We must remember that the folds of the terrain protect well even from the effects of nuclear weapons.

[Doctor]

as an option, our airborne forces are stationed there, they have floating BREM-L with a 3-meter blade, they can make passes in the high bank for tanks, just from the water's edge in the photo
under the cover of a company of 9 BMD-4 and 3-4 tanks from our shore

There is no high bank there, Oskol is a small flat river, but it flows at the foot of the chalk mountains. From these mountains, everything is shot through for 5-10 km, and you still need to get to the river.

Checked by the Germans in WWII. They walked along the river and mountains, periodically trying to climb, from Kupyansk to Valuyki. Unsuccessfully.

And before the Germans - the Tatars. Approximately there was the Belgorod serif line.

[bk316]

but it flows at the foot of the chalk mountains.

Don't give a damn....
Also, the soil doesn't hold well.
Here, if you attack in the forehead, you can put a division.

[Doctor]

Don't give a damn.... sad
Also, the soil doesn't hold well.
Here, if you attack in the forehead, you can put a division.

Certainly. It's chalk. And on top of a little alluvial soil.
Of course, there are roads to the top, but they are not for the simultaneous mass movement of equipment. There you have to be careful otherwise everything creeps.

[zero fact]

Better overview, identification of targets. In addition to artillery, there are much less long-range weapons and much more common.

[nik-mazur]

Quote from zero fact

In addition to artillery, there are much less long-range weapons

Like, the machine is driving, the artillery is resting?

[Petr_Koldunov]

Quote from: nik-mazur

Can anyone explain clearly what is the significance of a higher bank if artillery strikes for forty kilometers?

To put it quite primitively, something like this: on a higher bank you crawled back two steps - and you are no longer visible from the other side.
On the low bank - at least crawl down to the holes in the shatankh ...
Well, occupying a high bank is a much more complicated operation than landing on a low one.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Peter_Koldunov

on a higher bank, you crawled back two steps - and you are no longer visible from the other side

Drones do not see, artillery does not reach? Seriously? Because if you can't see, then you can't see anything.

Quote: Peter_Koldunov

occupying a high bank is a much more complicated operation than landing on a low one.

The attackers from the high bank went down and found themselves in exactly the same difficult position as the defenders, didn't they?

[saigon]

Or maybe remember the instructions about creating a defense along the reverse slopes, everything is painted there by smart people. Yes, and in the Soviet mountain units they directly taught that the one who is higher is in the best tactical position. In a word, a part of, say, a company should always be at heights.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote from: nik-mazur

Can anyone explain clearly what is the significance of a higher bank if artillery strikes for forty kilometers?

And you throw a stone from the 5th floor and with the same force from the ground level and compare the difference in distance.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

throw a stone from the 5th floor and with the same force from ground level and compare the difference in distance

Do you seriously believe that a height difference of one hundred meters has any significance for an artillery shell?

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote from: nik-mazur

Do you seriously think

I'm pretty sure it's just physics.
You understand. Even 500 meters matter if you can't get it and you're in the coverage area.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Even 500 meters matter

With a firing range of even 20 kilometers, 500 meters is 2,5%. At the level of statistical error.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote from: nik-mazur

500 meters is 2,5%. At the level of statistical error.

In this war, this is the standard of life and death.
This is not a financial calculation.
This is life or death.

[Rage66]

You don't understand... This is the trend now... Whichever bank is lower - that one loses...
It's strange that Holland, as a country, still exists.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Rage66

Which shore is lower - that one loses

If these are the rules of the game, then you can’t beat it against it ...

[Doctor]

Can anyone explain clearly what is the significance of a higher bank if artillery strikes for forty kilometers?

There are chalk mountains. The oskol flows under the mountain. This picture is about.

From their side:

With ours like this:

In the Second World War, the southern front of the Kursk Bulge passed here, the Kempf group advanced. They say that in some places in Oskol there are still tanks in the river silt. And on the dominant heights - monuments.

PS I grew up on this Oskol, if anything. And by the way, Kupyansk, not Kupyansk.

[Mikhail Ivanov]

One hundred people explained on their fingers, one explained visually and closed the discussion. Bravo!

[Kaufman]

And what about Kleshcheevka? What is near Artemovsk (Bakhmut)?

[Cartalon]

That is, we are preparing a months-long battle for Kupriyansk, with stories about the inconvenience of our positions and so on, but religion does not allow us to strike at the flank and rear of the positions of the Armed Forces on the Oskol in the interfluve of the Sev Donets and Oskol.

[Doctor]

That is, we are preparing a months-long battle for Kupriyansk, with stories about the inconvenience of our positions and so on, but religion does not allow us to strike at the flank and rear of the positions of the Armed Forces on the Oskol in the interfluve of the Sev Donets and Oskol.

Think right. In the Second World War, Kharkov was taken. Only not in the interfluve, but even further north, so as not to force S. Donets later. From the Shebekino area to Chuguev, then to Merefa. That's why Shebekino gets it, any concentration of troops - immediately arrivals.

But this is already a successful attempt, but at first they also tried head-on in two lowlands, directly from Belgorod. Then, as now, they also received lyuli from the heights.
History teaches that teaches nothing.

[Rumata]

Russian troops stepped up operations of front-line aviation in this direction,

No need to "activate". The Air Force should be working 100% 24/7 anyway. One regiment = at least a minimum of 100 combat units per day. It's only about 3 departures per car.

[Mikhail Ivanov]

Let's first take Molchanovo, Sinkovka, Liman First and, most importantly, Petropavlovka, and then we will rejoice and write victorious reports. And then these settlements on this resource have already been taken ...

[Terenin]

Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov

Petropavlovka, and then we will rejoice and write victorious reports. And then these settlements on this resource have already been taken ...

On the resources and you need to enjoy the positive moments. If the Russian forces have traveled several kilometers, then one cannot rejoice, and if the Vushniks have advanced 100 meters, then the media has won over the entire west, which helps to inspire their forces. Ah, that's a lot.
So I rejoice and will rejoice at any of our progress!

[Rinat_Lutfullin]

No one knows, in Kupyansk they turned off the power, gas stations, bridges were destroyed? All the same, the APU will blow everything up during the retreat.

[guest]

What now? I read this news about a week ago.

[Denissdaf]

Judging by the map https://map-svo.rf, our waxers entered the Molchanovo station on May 28, 2023.

[tolmachiev51]

Everything is not like people's, even the "counter offensive" in the opposite direction - strategists !!!

[crocodile25]

A counterattack in the other direction, as I understand it, is it already the Kharkov region?

[TwilightElf]

Such a feeling in the direction of movement, the goal is to repair the pipe of the exploded ammonia pipeline, not otherwise. Or I'm wrong?

[sw79]

You are not mistaken, even in the conditions of the grain deal it is mentioned about the "holy pipe", and it's easy to single out people in order to "repair and protect" the "holy" thing. People are not money, they are not sorry.