So were they there or not? 40 years since the last expedition to the moon

146
So were they there or not? 40 years since the last expedition to the moon


“We're not going to the moon,” Buzz Aldrin whispered in horror.

- Why do you think so? - Armstrong asked calmly, barely audibly humming “Land in the Illuminator” under his breath. He was a commander, and commander calm was supposed to him according to the instructions, complete with rank, patches and salaries in 30 054 dollars a year (including taxes).

“I have doubts,” Aldrin looked around suspiciously and covered the microphone with his hand. Then he bent down to Armstrong's ear. - I always knew it. Not the moon is. Fake. We think that we are flying, but in fact we are not flying. We stand somewhere in the desert, instead of the windows - television screens. Now we are shown a movie about space, and then we crash.

- Here you give! You still say that you know who killed Kennedy, - Armstrong mockingly looked at Buzz and began once again to verify the flight path.

“I know,” the co-pilot sighed ruefully, “Aliens.” They have a conspiracy with the Communists and the Illuminati.

- Aldrin, admit, you again used drugs from the on-board first-aid kit? - asked the commander of the "Eagle", strictly looking at the subordinate.

“Well, I'm a little bit,” Baz blushed. He picked up a marker and in front of the astonished commander began to draw hippos and a rainbow on the wall of the ship ...



The reason for referring to the topic of flights to the moon was the following event: exactly forty years ago, December 11 1972, the star-striped leg touched the surface of the Moon for the last time. 40 years ... passed an entire era, and so what? Instead of lunar bases and industrial development of the natural satellite of the Earth, we have only the book “We Never Went To The Moon” (We never flew to the Moon), written by the American writer B. Kizing in 1976 year. Actually, it was from this moment that one of the main intrigues of the twentieth century began.

For four decades, experts in the field of astronautics, astronomy, physics, radio engineering, biomedicine, directing, graphics, photography and photomontage, Americans have been trying to prove whether or not the moon was flying. Every day the number of arguments and evidence grows: direct and indirect, substantiated and not so much, refutable or vice versa. Frankly speaking, not a single convincing on 100% of the fact of falsification of the American Lunar program was found. At the same time, there are a number of slippery questions that NASA supporters cannot give a clear answer to.

Things like “a flag flying in a vacuum” or “no stars in photographs” are, of course, designed for simpletons and do not contain any secret: the flag is suspended on an L-shaped flagpole, and the stars are not visible due to the slow shutter speed in brightly lit moon.

Much more solid sounds another doubt: The level of technological development of astronautics in the 60-ies did not allow such an expedition. Here we can focus only on indirect evidence:

- the first vehicle that reached the surface of the moon was launched in 1959 (Soviet station Luna-2);
- In 1966, the Soviet station Luna-9 and the American Surveyor-1 and Surveyor-2 made a soft landing on the surface of the moon. Before launching the man on the moon, NASA conducted another 5 successful landings as part of the Surveyor program + three expeditions to explore the moon under the Ranger program and five under the Lunar Orbitter program;
- in 1967, the first launch of the Saturn-5 launch vehicle took place, capable of putting tons of payload into 140 orbit. Six million parts. Starting weight 3000 tons. Rocket height with 40-storey skyscraper. Even the skilled magician David Copperfield could not falsify the launch of Saturn-5 (a key element of the Moon program) - tens of thousands of people who came to Cape Canaveral from all over the world watched the launches with their own eyes.

The level of development of technology here, on the contrary, sounds more like an argument of supporters of NASA. Indeed, if Mankind could launch an unmanned probe to the Moon back in 1959, what prevented 10 from sending a probe to a man with a man aboard? And this is taking into account those tremendous efforts and costs aimed at the lunar program!

The second argument is deadly radiation! It is often said that when flying to the Moon, to ensure human security, 10-20-100 centimeters of lead biological protection are required. Otherwise, the deadly cosmic rays will kill all life on board. Astronauts would inevitably die on the moon in their thin rubber space suits.

As for the spacesuits, they were, of course, not rubber. The lunar spacesuit consisted of 25 layers: nylon, coolant hoses, thermal insulation, fiberglass, mylar, and finally, the outer protective layers of teflon-coated fiberglass. The weight of the spacesuit in terrestrial conditions - 80 kilogram.

American specialists were aware of the danger of the Earth’s radiation belts, because the Apollo’s flight path when crossing the belts was planned so that the Earth at that moment was turned towards the ship with its North or South Pole, where the magnetic field and radiation levels are less by an order of magnitude. Despite the apparent complexity of such a trajectory, specialists in space mechanics will only shrug their shoulders - for them to carry out such a calculation is just a routine task.

American astronomers, along with their Soviet colleagues, conducted close observation of flares on the Sun: in the event of a threat of increased solar activity, the launch should be canceled and postponed to another date. Fortunately for astronauts, this did not happen.

We have very specific ideas about cosmic radiation fluxes obtained from dozens of various scientific satellites, including those from the lunar surface. There is no “superradiance” there, which, of course, does not exclude a certain danger to human health (the astronauts did receive a good dose of radiation). As for the low near-earth orbit, the Russian cosmonaut Valery Polyakov spent on the board of the Mir station 438 days (world record!) And returned safely to Earth. So, everything that concerns radiation safety in near space does not cause any particular doubts.

Separately, I would like to note the fact that all the landings were planned in places that had just emerged from the earth's shadow, and the ground in this place had not yet had time to become very hot. Otherwise, the astronauts would have to jump like on hot coals. Knowing the exact dates of the expeditions, all this can be easily verified using free astronomical programs, for example, Stellarium.


In addition to space technology and radiation, I would like to mention a few more important points, because of which supporters of the "lunar conspiracy" theory break their spears. Search optical defects in photographs in the era of "Photoshop" - is clearly a thankless task. You can draw or paint over anything. Honestly, on official photos of NASA, I never saw anything suspicious. Some obviously compromising photos with three or even four astronauts on the Moon turned out to be fakes from the NASA / fun art website section. The famous photo with a distinct “C” symbol on a stone accidentally caught in a frame (experts explain it as a defect during development, a hair fell), it looks very suspicious, but much less impressive than the launch of the Saturn-5 rocket. Although, of course, a strange defect suggests some reflections ...

Charges in the absence of images of the Earth on the “lunar” photographs (and where the Earth is, on the contrary, all elements of the lunar landscape strangely disappear) can be explained by the choice of Apollo landing sites — the Earth, for definite reasons, was too high above the lunar horizon (checked by any free astronomical program).

Stronger alarming fact is that the Americans have managed lose the original film Apollo 11 lunar expedition. All the other five expeditions are available, and these are gone. NASA is meagerly justified by referring to the usual human stupidity and inattention - there are millions of films in the archive, somewhere stuck, or even erased and used in a new way. “Everyone knows that the original Beatles records were accidentally thrown by a maid. So, now the Beatles did not exist? ”- American astronauts sneer.

There is one more ridiculous fact: on video recordings in which Yankees cut across the moon in electric cars, You can clearly hear the sound of the engine running! Just like in Star Wars! NASA experts only shrug: “What do you think we skipped physics lessons at school? This is really the sound of a rover engine, but it does not come through a vacuum, but through the vibration of the ground. Believe it or not. By the way, director George Lucas at a press conference on the release of the next Star Wars series, began his speech with the words: “I know that the sound does not spread in a vacuum. Now ask your questions. ”

One can often hear a substantiated accusation regarding the absence of a crater at the site of the "lunar module" and in general traces of the impact of a jet stream. But the working engine of the 15-ton “Eagle” (although its weight on the Moon is 6 times smaller) was supposed to disperse all the dust and stones for many tens of meters around!

NASA, in response, cite numerous photographs of the Harrier vertical take-off aircraft. Where the landing operations are conducted in the field, the Harrier is very dusty, but, alas, no crater is formed under it. It is worth noting that the Eagle’s landing stage engine was two times weaker than the Harrier’s powerful engine with a 10 ton load.

According to NASA, astronauts installed on the moon laser reflectors. It is these reflectors (and one more, on the Soviet “Lunokhod”) that are still used by specialists from all over the world for ultra-precise measurement of the distance to the moon. The fact that reflectors are installed on the surface of the moon no doubt, another thing, could the Americans install them automatically, like on the Lunokhod?

"Apollos" delivered from the moon 382 kg of soil, of which about 40 kilograms were given to scientific organizations around the world. Part of the samples came to our institute them. Vernadsky. After a comprehensive study of the "American soil", Soviet researchers came to the conclusion that these are truly extraterrestrial samples, similar in properties to lunar soil delivered to Earth by Soviet automatic stations Luna-16, Luna-20 and Luna-24.

Lunar soil differs dramatically from terrestrial rocks by its chemical composition, the complete absence of traces of water and, most importantly, radiological age: the regolith formed 3.7 - 4.0 billion years ago, and the oldest minerals found on Earth - 2.6 billion.

In recent years, about 20 kg of lunar soil has strangely disappeared from the NASA collection - according to Americans, "moon stones" are regularly taken for research by various scientific organizations, while scientists are not in a hurry to return it, shamelessly dragging it around for home collections.

Finally, the most fierce storyrelated to liquidation of "objectionable" personswho refused to participate in a grand fraud. Indeed, in the 1966-1967 period, eight people died in a strange way, one way or another connected with space flights. This is not a simple tale from the "yellow press", all the dead are known by name:

Air Force Major Robert Lawrence 8 December 1967 of the year crashed while approaching an F-104 aircraft. You may ask, what did Lawrence have to do with the cosmos and the moon? Shortly before his death, he participated in the program to develop an orbital station. Obviously, I learned something about the "Moon Program", for which he was eliminated.

Russell Rogers died on September 13 1967 of the year - his F-105 fighter exploded in the air. Shortly before his death, he worked for NASA.
All other dead were NASA astronauts, although none of them, except for Grissom and White, had time to go into space.
Elliot C and Charles Bassett were the first candidates for the flight on Gemini-9, crashed on February 28 of the year 1966 when landing on the T-38 training aircraft.

27 January 1967, a tragedy occurred: Virgil Grissom, Edward White and Roger Chaffee from the Apollo-1 crew died. All three of them burned alive in an oxygen atmosphere while training in the spacecraft cabin.
Alas, astronautics experts do not find anything suspicious in the tragic death of the Apollo-1 crew, for example, 23 March 1961, under completely similar conditions, Soviet tester Valentin Bondarenko burned in the pressure chamber. Tragic accident.

Surprisingly, all nine Air Force pilots selected for flights on the Soviet Buran (the same relative of the Shuttle) also died under strange circumstances at the end of the 80s. What is it? Government conspiracy? Is "Buran" never existed in reality?

From my point of view, all the above cases only confirm the high risk and danger of the professions of pilots and astronauts. By the way, four out of the 12 astronauts who have been on the Moon have so far died, and all of them survived to an advanced age (on average, they were behind 70). Some of them after the Lunar Program participated in space flights again, for example, John Young was the commander of the Shuttle twice.

As for the opinions of Soviet cosmonauts and those who were directly involved in the 60 Space Race, their opinion sounds very prosaic: there were Americans on the Moon. According to Alexei Leonov, he personally was at a remote space communications center and watched broadcasts from the moon. Sensitive radio telescopes in the Crimea were able to locate the source of radio signals with an accuracy of 1,5 of angular minutes - there was no doubt that the signal was coming from the lunar surface. Otherwise, the exposure of the American scam would give huge political dividends to the Soviet Union.

In 2009, the Apollo and Lunokhod landing sites photographed the Japanese Kaguya probe and the American Lunar Reconaissance Orbiter (LRO). Of course, shooting from the lunar orbit of such small relief details is not of high quality. NASA experts point out subtle spots and shadows, explaining their origin by traces of earthly visitors.

In general, the situation is as follows: supporters of the "lunar conspiracy" find all the new suspicions that NASA supporters manage to more or less successfully refute. So far, no obvious fact of falsification has been found, and at the same time, no 100% reliable evidence of the presence of American astronauts on the lunar surface (for example, photos of high-resolution landing sites) has been provided.
To the direct question: “Why did you stop flying to the moon?”, The Americans have a peculiar answer: as long as the payload in 1% of the launch mass of the rocket is considered a great result, there can be no question of any industrial development of Cosmos.

Small photo gallery:


Landing site "Apollo 11", visible traces left "on the dusty paths of distant planets." Picture taken by LRO at 2012.



"Lunokhod-2" and its track, photo taken by LRO



The USSR flag, which was aboard the Appolon-11 and a capsule with lunar soil, exposition VDNH, 1971



Interior of the landing module "Eagle"



Rover №1. The vehicle of the last three lunar expeditions



Apollo-12 "limped" in 360 meters from the automatic station "Surveyor 3", arrived on the moon on 2 a year earlier. Astronauts partially dismantled the probe and brought back his camera (exhibited in the National Aerospace Museum)
146 comments
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  1. -10
    17 December 2012 08: 46
    Did the Americans fly to the moon? Of course they flew, but how much money all sorts of deniers earned ...
    1. +10
      17 December 2012 09: 43
      When there are so many mistakes, confusion and misunderstandings - it is difficult to talk about the truth.
      Likely you also once lied and then dodged, adding spaces - the same thing here, a bunch of inconsistencies ...

      Pay attention to the photos with the moon: modern telescopes allow reading newspapers, but here they are trying to look out for traces of the Appaloons from the "flight altitude".

      By the way, some soil samples turned out to be quite terrestrial
      1. snek
        +2
        17 December 2012 09: 53
        Quote: RedDragoN
        When there are so many mistakes, confusion and misunderstandings - it is difficult to talk about the truth.

        And how much confusion and misunderstanding in your comment:
        Quote: RedDragoN
        Pay attention to the photographs with the moon: current telescopes allow reading newspapers, but here they are trying to look out for traces of the Appaloons from the "flight altitude".

        1. there are no satellites who could "read newspapers"
        2. Compare the mass of the best spy satellites and those that launched to the moon.
        Quote: RedDragoN
        By the way, some soil samples turned out to be quite terrestrial

        Give an example from a slightly trustworthy source (books and articles by Mukhin do not belong to such sources).
        1. +3
          17 December 2012 13: 00
          Quote: snek
          1. there are no satellites who could "read newspapers"

          Well, not really. Now from a specialized satellite.
          it is possible to read a document typed in newspaper font, located indoors at a distance of a meter from the window.
          1. snek
            +4
            17 December 2012 13: 13
            Quote: revnagan
            it is possible to read a document typed in newspaper font, located indoors at a distance of a meter from the window.

            Do not invent. It is possible (although unlikely) that optics allow this, but here optical defects of the earth's atmosphere play their role.
            1. Brother Sarych
              0
              17 December 2012 13: 48
              I think that optics just doesn’t allow this!
              1. 0
                April 3 2020 15: 54
                From 100 km of an orbit to make out two-millimeter letters of the newspaper, it’s like to make an object of 384,4 m wide from 7,5 thousand km. Footprints are smaller.
                At any resolution, the tracks from the lunar rover should be more clearly visible than the footprints. But in the photo - the opposite.
                So there is a lot of obscurity here
                Although, the photo does not include a scale, which may be different. So this is not a 100% indicator.
    2. version1969
      0
      22 December 2012 19: 26
      The trouble is that the site http://www.skeptik.net/conspir/moonhoax.htm was created BEFORE the skeptics movement appeared. This site first appeared. Then skeptics appeared. Accordingly, they cannot not be familiar with this site. They made their own texts, knowing by heart the article on "skeptic.net". All skeptics have a link to this site. For example:
      http://version1969.narod.ru
      http://mo---on.narod.ru
      Or take at least the same Popov, whom, apparently, you know.
      Give at least one example, when "deniers" express an "idea" that is refuted by "skeptic.net" ... What, can't find an example? The deniers have never, nowhere and never, expressed those stupid thoughts, logical and correct refutations of which are given on "skeptic.net".
      That's right, because all the "deniers" wrote their texts after the appearance of this site, being familiar with it and with its author. So you will find on the net a bunch of examples of how skeptics ATTRACT those stupid "ideas" that are refuted by "skeptic.net". But you will not find where the skeptics themselves expressed these ideas.
      On the other hand, every refuting site has a link to "skeptic.net".
  2. Alpha-omega
    +12
    17 December 2012 08: 55
    NASA's lack of desire to provide conclusive evidence is the most important argument against them.
    1. snek
      +1
      17 December 2012 09: 17
      Quote: Alpha-Omega
      NASA's lack of desire to provide conclusive evidence is the most important argument against them.

      They (evidence) have long been presented.
      Here is an interesting article: Viktorov S.V. and Chesnokov V.I.
      Chemistry of the lunar soil. M., “Knowledge”, 1978.
      Published in the journal "New in life, technology" Series "Cosmonautics, astronomy" No. 2, 1978
      In it, in particular, there is a comparative analysis of the lunar soil brought by our automatic stations and donated by the Americans. How do you explain this, fellow conspirators?
      here is the electronic version of the article http://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/znan/1978/02/2-him-lun-gr.html
      By the way, until now I have not heard a single intelligible explanation why not a single person is seriously connected with space (a spacecraft engineer or an astronaut) even in our country, at least in some other country, is not a supporter of a lunar conspiracy, but people have publicly claimed that they believe in the flight of Americans among them abound.
    2. +1
      17 December 2012 13: 17
      Quote: Alpha-Omega
      NASA's lack of desire to provide conclusive evidence

      NASA presented everything that could:

      - multiple launches of the 3000-ton Saturn-5 launch vehicle in front of the entire world;

      - a heavy manned spacecraft Apollo, suitable for flights to the Moon. There was even the Soyuz-Apollo program, during which the ships of the two countries were docked in orbit, and the cosmonauts (astronauts) made friendly visits.

      - laser reflectors on the surface of the moon - their existence is impossible to falsify;

      - Thousands of photo materials and tens of hours of video.

      - ground, Surveyor-3 probe chamber and other material evidence.
      1. 0
        17 December 2012 13: 21
        Throw you to prove it because it is useless. With the same success, it can be stated that Gagarin did not fly into space. Type where material evidence? request
        1. +7
          17 December 2012 13: 29
          I personally somehow didn’t, weren’t. As the base was built and mining began, the question of who was or was not on the moon was resolved.

          1. +3
            17 December 2012 21: 38
            The first step is to trample and place all the trash in the coordinates.
            In the history of Egyptian excavations there are many such facts as in other things and in the "mythically found" Troy.
            RAMSTEIN was definitely on the moon. laughing
        2. Alpha-omega
          +3
          17 December 2012 19: 17
          laughing
          With Gagarin, everything is much simpler.))
        3. +2
          22 November 2013 19: 05
          Quote: professor
          With the same success, it can be stated that Gagarin did not fly into space.

          So they prove it. And even material evidence leads - the memorable records of some Italians. So, alas, not an argument ...
      2. Alpha-omega
        +5
        17 December 2012 19: 16
        - 3000.? What engines were there?

        - Soyuz-Apollo? I agree. Are you sure that they brought the Apollo into the flight path to the moon and not some modified Serveyors?

        - There were also corner reflectors on Lunokhod,

        - Thousands of video materials that are "most likely irretrievably lost."

        - The soil that was stolen.

        I am still inclined to believe that it was a swindle. Judge for yourself: they did not have engines, the rocket was raw, there were also a lot of problems with the LM, this is already enough for making such assumptions and drawing certain conclusions. I suppose that instead of full-fledged Apollo, they launched ordinary automatic stations that actually flew to the moon, and, quite naturally, left traces of their stay there, which now, after slightly processing in Photoshop, pass off as traces of Armstrong and Aldrin. This is my personal opinion, which was formed after reading both the critics of the Apollo program and its ardent supporters. And the most convincing proof will be the construction of the Stourn-5 rocket, the construction of the Apollo and LM spacecraft (all exclusively using the technologies of the late 60s) and the launch of this entire economy to the Moon, then we would see who is right and who is not.
        hi
        1. -8
          17 December 2012 19: 35
          Quote: Alpha-Omega
          - 3000.? What engines were there?

          Quote: Alpha-Omega
          they had no engines, the rocket was crude

          The first stage "Saturn-5" - 5 LPRE kerosene + hydrogen
          This is the catch: Soviet engineers failed to create a liquid-propellant rocket engine of such high power, as a result, on the first stage of our "lunar" rocket N-1 there were 30 (!!!) small engines. Marasmic fiery madness.

          Naturally, no one managed to coordinate the work of the 30 LRE, so the N-1 exploded a second after the start and plowed Baikonur

          Quote: Alpha-Omega
          Are you sure that they brought the Apollo into the flight path to the moon and not some modified Serveyors?

          No, not sure. But this is a viable version.
          Although ... given all the effort and expense of the Lunar Program, it was easier to land a couple of astronauts than to bother with all this Hollywood and modified Serviors. Still, the amers allocated $ 25 billion for their program, and the USSR $ 4 billion.

          Quote: Alpha-Omega
          Thousands of videos that are "most likely irretrievably lost"

          No, only Apollo 11 records are lost, the other five missions are fine.

          Quote: Alpha-Omega
          The soil that was stolen.

          Here with the ground is just the most questions.
          1. Alpha-omega
            +8
            17 December 2012 19: 49
            "... The first stage of Saturn-5 - 5 LPRE kerosene + hydrogen ..." - there are also a lot of questions here, especially if you consider that they are now using not their super powerful F-1, but our RD.

            Regarding our N-1 - 2 ready-made launch vehicles with corrected deficiencies were at the starting positions, but the "start" command was not followed.

            "... it was easier to land a couple of astronauts ..." - easier? And if it fails? What then will the entire world community say? In this case, everything had to be accurate, because then it was part of politics, and politics, as you know, is a dirty thing. And by the way, where did you get the idea that launching an automatic station is more expensive than a ship with 3 astronauts on board?

            "... the other five missions are okay ...." - right, bloopers corrected, and forward.))
            1. -2
              17 December 2012 20: 10
              Quote: Alpha-Omega
              here, too, there are a lot of questions, especially when you consider that they are not using their super powerful F-1 now

              Quite the opposite, there are no problems with the PH. The huge Saturn flew regularly in front of the entire world.

              Quote: Alpha-Omega
              Regarding our H-1 - 2 ready-made launch vehicles with eliminated shortcomings, they stood at the starting positions

              And this is already a fantasy. All 4 previous launches ended in crashes. Fire-breathing team from 30 engines - no one has thought of such a thing yet.
              So there weren't any "two ready-made launch vehicles".

              Quote: Alpha-Omega
              "... it was easier to land a couple of astronauts ..." - easier? And if it fails? What then will the entire world community say? In this case, everything had to be accurate, because then it was part of politics, and politics, as you know, is a dirty thing.

              Considering the amount of forces and funds spent on the "Lunar Program", the landing seems to be quite real.
              And hundreds of thousands of employees associated with the Lunar Program make falsification impossible.

              Quote: Alpha-Omega
              And by the way, where did you get that launching an automatic station is more expensive than a ship with 3 astronauts on board?

              Firstly, the finished ship was already there, as was the finished launch vehicle.
              Secondly, than bothering with laser reflectors, repeaters (the signal really came from the moon), fake soil and a Serveor-3 camera, Hollywood and photomontage, security - it's easier to honestly land Armstrong, especially since all the means were already available ( RN, Apollo, lunar module)
              1. Alpha-omega
                +3
                17 December 2012 20: 30
                "... The huge" Saturn "flew regularly in front of the whole world ..." - How is it regularly? How many times did he fly, remind you?

                "... And this is fantasies ...." - fantasies? I see you are not friends with the fact, okay. Especially for you. We take the worn-out Wikipedia, we find an article about the RN N-1 - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CD-1 - the subtitle "Completion of work" - we read: "... After the big work done again to bring the carrier The launch of the N1F carrier (product No. 8L) with the standard unmanned lunar orbital spacecraft 7K-LOK (11F93) and the lunar landing ship T2K-LK (11F94) of the L3 complex was scheduled for August 1974, when the entire flight program was to be carried out in automatic mode. Then, a year later, the launch vehicle (product No. 9L) was to start with an unmanned spacecraft L3, the landing ship-module LK of which would remain on the lunar surface as a reserve for the next next launch of the launch vehicle (product No. 10L) with the first Soviet manned expedition to The moon. ... "
                We take another site - http://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/ziv/1993/5/sov-pp.html
                "... On May 15, 1974, a decision was made to suspend work on the project, and in 1976 the lunar landing program was finally closed. Two missiles" N-1 "prepared for launches and their documentation were destroyed ...." - TWO PREPARED ROCKETS.

                "... And hundreds of thousands of employees associated with the" Lunar Program "..." - hundreds of thousands of workers working on individual tasks, and a small circle of people in charge of all aspects of the operation, is there a difference?

                "... Firstly, the finished ship was already there, like the finished launch vehicle ..." - not a fact.
                "... Secondly, than bothering with laser reflectors, repeaters (the signal really came from the moon), fake soil and a Serveor-3 camera, Hollywood and photomontage, ensuring secrecy - it's easier to honestly land Armstrong, especially since all the means are already were available (RN, Apollo, lunar module) .... "- it’s easier for you.)) Laser reflectors and repeaters were perfectly worked out on their machines, the soil can also be brought using a machine gun, and for Hollywood I just do not say anything. wink
                And do not forget about the prestige factor, for them it was very important.
                1. -4
                  17 December 2012 21: 23
                  Quote: Alpha-Omega
                  "... The huge" Saturn "flew regularly in front of the whole world ..." - How is it regularly? How many times did he fly, remind you?

                  EMNIP 13 times. In front of a hundred thousandth crowd of tourists from all over the world (in the photo - watching the start of Apollo 11)

                  Quote: Alpha-Omega
                  ... Especially for you. We take the worn-out Wikipedia, we find an article about the LV N-1 - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CD-1 - the subtitle "Completion of work" - we read: "... After the big work done again to bring the carrier launch of the carrier N1F

                  They could "bring" the H-1 as much as they wanted, the problem was the lack of full-scale bench tests (of course, where to find such a stand!) And the impossibility of coordinating the simultaneous operation of 30 engines. Too great technical risks were concealed by the H-1 design.

                  Quote: Alpha-Omega
                  "... Firstly, the finished ship was already there, like the finished launch vehicle ..." - not a fact.

                  Fact, fact))) The rocket regularly flew, Apollo was in good condition.

                  Quote: Alpha-Omega
                  "... And hundreds of thousands of employees associated with the" Lunar Program "..." - hundreds of thousands of workers working on individual tasks, and a small circle of people in charge of all aspects of the operation, is there a difference?

                  Operators in Hollywood, Scenery Editors, Stage Workers, Illuminators, Scientists who tampered with the ground, Engineers who created the "improved Surveyor" to deliver reflectors and repeaters, Assembly workers of the "Lunar Complex" - they all would have guessed what was the matter. For 40 years, some truth about falsification has definitely come out.
                  1. Alpha-omega
                    +2
                    18 December 2012 08: 36
                    "... 13 times ...." - subtract 2 failed test launches - 11 times, now I have a question: how many times have Soyuz been launched in various modifications?

                    "... They could" bring "the N-1 as much as they wanted, the problem was in the absence of full-scale bench tests (of course! Where to find such a stand!) ..." - yes, there were problems with the test base, but one should not forget that at that time, 4 launch vehicles were launched, the 4th, by the way, at a hundred and some second, began to junk, so count the bench tests for you.

                    "... Fact, fact))) ...." - I have already spoken about this, you do not see or understand what it is about.

                    "... For 40 years, some truth about falsification has definitely come out ...." - so she climbs out.)) Moreover, since the 70s, and in the United States itself. And why would they, ordinary workers, have guessed that this is falsification? They were shown on TV, advertised, after all, they believe on TV, not facts.)))
                    1. -2
                      18 December 2012 12: 37
                      Quote: Alpha-Omega
                      "... 13 times ...." - subtract 2 failed test launches - 11 times

                      13 successful launches.

                      Quote: Alpha-Omega
                      yes, there were problems with the test base, but we must not forget that at that time the 4 launch vehicle was launched;

                      The conclusions about H-1 are simple and straightforward:
                      1. the design of the H-1 was erroneous and fraught with an excessive amount of technical risks. 30 liquid propellant rocket engine in one stage - no one has yet reached such insanity.
                      2. H-1 had 1,5 times less starting weight and payload than Saturn-5. - This is a pH of different classes.
                      3. In fact, Saturn flew, and the N-1 plowed the spaceport.

                      Quote: Alpha-Omega
                      "... Fact, fact))) ...." - I have already spoken about this, you do not see or understand what it is about.

                      And what is it about?
                      Facts: Saturn 5 was ready, in working order. The heavy manned spacecraft Apollo was ready, in working order.
                      All the components of the lunar program assembly, and this is a solid argument

                      For example, we had nothing of the kind. Only general schemes and plans. And the flightless H-1.

                      Quote: Alpha-Omega
                      "... For 40 years, some truth about falsification has definitely come out ...." - so she gets out.

                      Only speculations and fantasies from cunning whistleblowers far from NASA, Hollywood and the "60s space race" come out.

                      Those who worked at NASA or Hollywood made no announcements. Thousands, tens of thousands of people (operators, illuminators, set makers, scriptwriters, stage workers, movers, scientists and engineers who forged soil and assembled the "improved Surveyor", etc., etc. - NOBODY made any statements, no one did not leave any pre-death notes, diaries, reports). It is impossible to keep this secret for 40 years.
                      1. Alpha-omega
                        +2
                        18 December 2012 16: 36
                        "... 13 successful launches ...." - the first launches were disastrous, 8 months after again a failed test test launch, they launched "A-8" with people on board, which is actually strange for a rocket that did not pass the test. For comparison: there were at least 20 test flights of the Shuttle.

                        "... Conclusions about H-1 are simple and straightforward: ..." - again, for you. The designers proceeded from the fact that they did not have a high-power engine; a logical step was to increase the number of engines. And by the way, if Korolev were alive, he would have brought the N-1 program to the required condition, although our landing on the moon would hardly have taken place.

                        ".. In fact, Saturn flew, and N-1 plowed the cosmodrome ...." - most likely the "Saturn-1b" flew, embedded under the "Saturn-5".

                        "... Facts:" Saturn-5 "was ready, in working order ...." - you repeat the same thing over and over again, I'm a little tired of this, you at least a little familiar with the subject of the dispute, because an unpleasant impression of you folds up.

                        "... whistleblowers far from NASA, Hollywood and the '60s space race" .... "- well, after these words, I can only - to wish you good luck in removing the noodles from your ears. Adieu. hi
                      2. 0
                        15 November 2018 17: 42
                        But do not you all think that the lunar race is a worldwide deception on the part of the USSR and the USA? Question was there a boy? The same respected by me, Alexei Leonov (dear - this is not sarcasm), He will tell you everything that the party and the government will order, as well as US astronauts, and all who are related to space, yes, these are thousands of people because such people give a non-disclosure subscription for life, because and there will be no real pictures until mere mortals fly to the moon as tourists already. Yes, and a mere mortal from the pictures, even on the moon, is unlikely to distinguish the traces of a lunar rover from a lunar crater, for this there should be a specialist, but all is speculation (they scare the plates mean they fly, then your dogs bark, then they say ruins) laughing What are you doing on the sea? Correctly or pick up pebbles or shells laughing Now imagine the savages rushing along the moon in spacesuits behind the stones, fuck that rover if you need to bring a stone laughing . And in about 100-200 years, people will already forget who Gagarin and the first American astronauts are. For the next generations, there will be their pioneers. In Russia, there was a billboard with the confused name of the first astronaut, of course he can look for fake laziness.
                        And yes, actually the question of the age of moonstones is 4000 lard years against 2 earthly ones,
                        the logical question is where was the land 2 lard years? In space around the corner? laughing Or did the moon wander in space and stick, and why is the moon always only on one side to the earth?
                        Again, a lot of technical issues ??? Wouldn't it be easier to collect this pepelats in space and start from there ????, Than to put a bandura on the ground with a 40-storey building. Well, how should she eat kerosene with hydrogen ???? At Cape Canaveral, people could see the window dressing of Apollo starts. They pulled on a canal, and the layout could safely land in Nevada business then.
                        But what about the people? Yasen Stump WAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUU BABAH FLY laughing explode or not? a beautiful sight
                        And where did the engines from Apollo go? Why do not they fly?
                        And yes the most important moment !!!! The Americans never had take-off capsules on take-off rescue capsules on any of the spaceships, and the shuttle fell apart on landing !!!! Does not suggest that the flight of Amer into space is essentially a one-way ticket?
                        Many questions are not convincing answers, we will find out when we will fly to the moon as tourists wassat but we will not live to see it No.
          2. +5
            17 December 2012 21: 46
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Still, amers allotted $ 25 billion to their program, and the USSR $ 4 billion.

            F-15, F-16, F-22 and F-35 are also not priced at MIG-29, MIG-35, SU-27 or SU-35.
            1. 0
              15 November 2018 18: 02
              You do not equal the Soviet Union with a single system of enterprises. Basically, payments were made by means of advance payments, that is, cash was not transferred to the accounts, cooperation may among the ministries was settlement on a contractual basis. This reduces the cost of production. And the United States designs alone, collects the second experimental sample, third electronics, fourth engines, fifth finished products and a bunch of small companies that supply all kinds of junk or tsatsk junk wassat all this is an agreement with each company + it is necessary to roll back to the customer for attracting the order.

              And yes, in the former Union, from Nikita and now in the Post-Soviet space, the norms (prices) for design and construction are too low and hence low salaries follow, only we do not live in the USSR where everyone had everything
  3. ICT
    +6
    17 December 2012 09: 10
    Quote: Alpha-Omega

    NASA's lack of desire to provide conclusive evidence is the most important argument against them.


    here in this I understand them, whatever they provide as evidence will be refuted, as I understand their position is "you are so smart, so prove that we did not land on the moon, we were there, but you are not" the position itself very correct so that we will wait for evidence

    in principle, you can even begin to doubt any space flight (if you so desire)
    1. snek
      +3
      17 December 2012 09: 23
      Quote: TIT
      here in this I understand them, whatever they provide as evidence, it will be refuted

      I completely agree. When you communicate with some conspirators, you get the impression that even if you take them to the moon and take them to the places of landing, you still won’t believe it.
      1. +3
        17 December 2012 14: 09
        Quote: snek
        When you communicate with some conspirators, you get the impression that even if you take them to the moon and take them to the places of landing, you still won’t believe it.

        In the USA there is a funny sect of insane people, proving that the Earth is flat.
        "Flat Earth Society"

        here's an example link - http://posledniichas.narod.ru/2008/z.htm
  4. Brother Sarych
    +3
    17 December 2012 10: 23
    But I also doubt that they flew, recently read another batch of materials that refute their flights, and it looked pretty convincing ...
    Sometimes it really seems that there really is some kind of agreement that everyone recognizes the reality of flights to the moon - you say that you flew, we do not dig into the details ...
    1. +7
      17 December 2012 11: 35
      http://www.skeptik.net/conspir/moonhoax.htm

      Hello, read these materials, there are counterarguments that they still flew.
      1. -4
        17 December 2012 11: 38
        I already posted this link here ... wink
    2. Volkhov
      +7
      17 December 2012 12: 15
      Let's say they flew, but without landing people. According to their version, landing requires 2 dockings with the landing module - the first is automatic with a flight from aft to bow of the Apollo, while the second one still needs to find the Apollo itself in orbit.
      The flight option only with undocking of the eagle is more understandable. Our version of the lunar module (for 1 person) as a telephone booth, how to do ballistics with one small window to the side is completely incomprehensible, because there will be no guidance from the Earth, and any inaccuracy will break both modules.
      A mistake was made at the beginning of the program, abandoning the scheme with the landing of the entire ship, and it was already impossible to start all over again.
      1. +1
        17 December 2012 13: 28
        Quote: Volkhov
        how to do ballistics there with one small window to the side is completely incomprehensible, because there will be no guidance from the Earth, and any inaccuracy will break both modules.

        Helicopters somehow land, often not seeing what is under them.
        Pilots usually pre-select a suitable site and begin to extinguish horizontal speed when the site is hidden from view - it is time to decrease.

        The photo shows a comparison of the dimensions of the "Eagle" and the Soviet lander 11F94. As you can see, Soviet specialists believed that this would be quite enough. By the way, the 11F94 module was planned as a two-seat version.
        1. +6
          17 December 2012 14: 50
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Helicopters somehow land

          And here is a helicopter?
          The man wrote about the complexity of performing docking operations in the lunar orbit, which had to be performed manually without automatic guidance from the Earth, with the minimum possible error (for 10 attempts - no fuel).
          1. -1
            17 December 2012 17: 22
            Quote: Volkhov
            It was not written about the landing - the moon is big, but about the docking of modules with deviations in centimeters - nothing is visible towards the docking station, and the experience of orbital stations has not yet been


            The world's first docking in space was performed on March 16, 1966 by Gemini 8 (crew of Neil Armstrong and David Scott; later Scott was the commander of Apollo 15 and also visited the moon). The photo shows the docking of Gemini 8 and the Agena unmanned unit.

            In total, by the time of the "Arollon-11" flight, the amers performed 8 EMNIP docks.

            Quote: FoMaS
            without automatic guidance from the Earth, with the minimum possible error (on 10 attempts - no fuel).

            Computers, advanced training, ballistic calculations and space mechanics, help from the Earth.
            1. Volkhov
              +3
              18 December 2012 21: 45
              Gemini is an order of magnitude lighter than an eagle, here the masses are like those of heavy trucks, while the eagle is a two-stage rocket with a bunch of fuel. In theory, it is possible to dock, but 7 times (including Ap. 10) without any errors (14 dockings) is doubtful. 6 landings without problems - also interesting.
              Considering a bunch of inconsistencies in the reports, it leads to reflection. By the way, to remove in detail the landing sites on the Moon is not a problem with any camera - there the orbit height can be any - at least 100 m, and the speed of 1,6 km / s, that is, 5 times lower than the Earth.
              Falsifications of the lunar program make many earthly discoveries - they show the political power of America, the systemic unity of the USSR and the USA, the density of the pro-American network in the scientific community - and this is much more interesting than moon sand in America or Aleutian. The real lunar base is still German - they probably hoped that there wouldn’t smell like a common human, but no - they were locked in on heptyl kerogase.
        2. Volkhov
          +3
          17 December 2012 15: 02
          It was not written about the landing - the Moon is large, but about the docking of modules with deviations of centimeters - nothing is visible towards the docking node, and there has not yet been any experience of orbital stations. Places for the second in the owls. there is no module, if only without spacesuits with a slender girlfriend.
  5. +4
    17 December 2012 11: 29
    Well, since the USSR admitted that it lost in the lunar race, then we have nothing to argue about whether the Americans flew to the moon or not.
    1. 0
      17 December 2012 13: 31
      Quote: iCuD
      USSR admitted that it lost in the lunar race

      The USSR did not recognize, the Soviet Union said that our priority is the exploration of the moon by automatic devices.

      Just like in the fable of the great Krylov "Fox and Grapes". Remember, the fox also said that the grapes, which she could not reach, are too green wink
      1. ImpKonstantin
        0
        17 December 2012 16: 29
        You rightly noted this: the USSR declared this priority as a wukraut after the failure of a rocket test, which it was planned to use to deliver a person to the moon.
        And one more thing: if the Union were the first, then there would be much less debate over whether there were people on Earth or not. Quarrels just arise because of resentment that the United States interrupted a series of unconditional victories of the Soviets in space.
        1. mda
          mda
          +3
          17 December 2012 17: 19
          Quote: ImpKonstantin
          And one more thing: if the Union were the first, then there would be much less debate over whether there were people on Earth or not.

          You are wrong. "Democrats" would have found at least a hundred proofs long ago that this was not
          1. snek
            +1
            17 December 2012 18: 18
            Quote: mda-a
            You are wrong. "Democrats" would have found at least a hundred proofs long ago that this was not

            Well, there is no physical evidence of Gagarin’s flight, but the Americans don’t dispute it. I, too, have no doubt at all that this flight was, although in this case it is rather an act of faith.
            1. mda
              mda
              +2
              17 December 2012 19: 31
              Quote: snek
              Well, there is no physical evidence of Gagarin’s flight, but the Americans don’t dispute it.

              Wait after 100000000000000000000–200000000000000000000 quintillion years will surely challenge laughing
        2. +1
          17 December 2012 18: 55
          Quote: ImpKonstantin
          Quarrels just arise because of resentment that the United States interrupted a series of unconditional victories of the Soviets in space.


          If we do not take into account the Lunar program (so as not to be distracted by unnecessary disputes and arguments), then the priority of the USSR in Space was lost on March 2, 1972, when the automatic interplanetary station Pioneer-10 was launched from Cape Canaveral to study the outer planets of the Solar systems.
          1. slas
            0
            18 December 2012 12: 51
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            the USSR's priority in space was lost on March 2, 1972, when the automatic interplanetary station Pioneer-10 was launched from Cape Canaveral

            Once again yes peck the USSR in the ass yes?
      2. slas
        0
        18 December 2012 12: 46
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Remember, the fox also said that grapes that she couldn’t reach were too green.

        With a head .... mi?
  6. snek
    +4
    17 December 2012 12: 10
    In general, it seems to me that now this stupid dispute is not so much a dispute between two countries, but between two generations. Just as NASA’s current situation (which today cannot even deliver people to orbit by its own forces) looks like a pale shadow of past victories, so in Soviet times we sent a huge number of devices to study Venus, Mars and the Moon (including the first self-propelled devices for studies of other celestial bodies - moon rovers), and now more than 20 years have passed since we launched something successfully beyond the orbit of the earth.
    It is extremely unpleasant for the current generation to look at the achievements of their ancestors, so all sorts of things begin: "they did not fly to the moon", "Gagarin did not fly", etc.
    1. +3
      17 December 2012 13: 47
      Quote: snek
      Just like NASA’s current situation (which today it cannot even deliver to orbit with its own forces), it looks like a pale shadow of past victories

      Are you joking?
      In the period from 1996 to 2012, NASA launched 12 missions only for the exploration of Mars (orbital, landing, rovers).

      And here are the rest. Purely from memory:

      1999 - station "Cassini" for the study of Saturn + probe "Huygens" paired with it for landing on Titan;

      1999 - probe "Stardust" to Comet Wild (meeting in 2004) and Comet Temple (meeting in 2011)

      2004 - the MESSENGER probe, the second man-made spacecraft for the exploration of Mercury (the first was Mariner 10);

      2006 - the New Horizons probe - the first probe to explore Pluto;

      2007 - the "Dawn" probe for exploration of the asteroids Vesta and Ceres;

      2011 - "Juno" left Jupiter;

      2012 - landing of the 700-kg Curiosity rover;

      2013 year - A MAVEN mission is planned to explore the atmosphere of Mars.

      By the way, at present, on the surface and in the vicinity of Mars, there are 6 NASA missions.
      1. snek
        +2
        17 December 2012 13: 56
        I know this very well and NASA’s success in the study of the salt system is really impressive. But the fact that they have no success in manned astronautics today does not change this. YES and with financing they have now tough - how many interesting missions have been cut - it’s wildly offensive. I hope that at least the James Webb telescope will not be covered.
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        By the way, at present, on the surface and in the vicinity of Mars, there are 6 NASA missions.

        Not certainly in that way. On Mars, 2 of the American Mars rover (oportunity and curiosity) and 2 of the American artificial satellite: Ricondensity orbiter and Odyssey, and also 1 the European satellite - Mars Express
        1. 0
          17 December 2012 16: 12
          Quote: snek
          Not certainly in that way. On Mars, 2 of the American Mars rover (oportunity and curiosity) and 2 of the American artificial satellite: Ricondensity orbiter and Odyssey, and also 1 the European satellite - Mars Express

          Right I still believe Spirit, although he fell silent 2 years ago

          Quote: snek
          But the fact that they have no success in manned astronautics today does not change this.

          It seems that at this stage of technical development, people in space have basically nothing to do.

          Quote: snek
          how many interesting missions were cut - wildly insulting.

          crying

          Pluto Kuiper Express - should have arrived in the vicinity of Pluto

          Jupiter Acy Muns Orbiter

          MoonRise - was supposed to drag the soil from South. the poles of the moon (thought Shackleton crater has water)

          SAGE - landing on Venus

          DeepSpace 4- partially offset by the launch of Stardust

          Earth Observing 2 and 3, as in principle, the entire Millennium program

          NASA Well, at least you do not mess!
          Otherwise, as they say, as only NASA can ... no one but you
  7. +3
    17 December 2012 12: 34
    Good day!
    I read a lot of interesting information detailing the arguments and counterarguments about the stay of the Americans on the moon.

    Here is the link: http://www.doverchiv.narod.ru/AIPopov-moon/00.htm

    I advise you to read in full (there are 25 pages), and then come to some conclusion yourself
    1. snek
      +2
      17 December 2012 12: 43
      FOR Veterans moonrash of intellectual disputes about the moon, it is enough to see the name of Popov in your link and everything becomes clear.
      In addition to the above SrgSoap site, there is also one (I give a section where Popov’s work is specifically dealt with):
      http://apollofacts.wikidot.com/hoax:people-popov
      1. +3
        17 December 2012 13: 05
        I looked at the information on your (snek) link. I did not like her. It recalled how our scientists scolded M. Zadornov in the program "Gordonkikhot" (forgot how it was written correctly). I prefer the information for analysis: "argument-counterargument". And the information: "the argument, yes you tu.oy!" I don’t really. I’m not running into anything. I just didn’t like it (why I already wrote it).
        It would be interesting to everyone's opinion, after reading that information.
        1. snek
          +2
          17 December 2012 13: 12
          Quote: Eugene
          It would be interesting to everyone's opinion, after reading that information.

          You know, I used to be one of those who doubted, even rather inclined to the theory of conspiracy. About the works of Popov, I can say that of all our whistleblowers, he looks the most plausible (at least they are written in an adequate language, in contrast to the same Mukhin).
          In general, I hope that in the coming years, interest in the Moon will return (and ours had plans, and the Chinese, and the Americans, and the Indians, and the Europeans and the Japanese) and then there will inevitably be visits to those areas and then it will open 100% were or were not.
          1. +5
            17 December 2012 13: 24
            And I'm the opposite. At first in Soviet times (all the more) he considered that they were there! And after analyzing all the information on the link that I provided, I am more inclined to skepticism in this matter. After all, the arguments are clear and reasonable. And about Popov (in your reference I read:

            "At the same time, Popov, firstly, makes a direct juggling: man’s flights to the moon are neither a scientific discovery, nor a graduation project, nor a dissertation; the Apollo program is a scientific and technological achievement, and scientific and technological achievements are considered accomplished without any protection, unless they are recognized by the competent community and if their falsification is not proved. All established practice speaks of this, and Popov cannot but know this. Nobody gathered any commission before which the USSR would defend Gagarin’s flight, Buran’s flight, etc. Neither the USA nor the USSR defended the flights of its automatic interplanetary stations: never in history had there been a single space achievement before who did not defend. Only those who are convinced of falsification can play the role of proponents: it is they who will have to prove that the Soviet “Venus” or the American “Voyagers” were falsification, if only they wanted to doubt the reality of these cosmic achievements.

            Secondly, Popov completely ignores the fact that the reality of the Apollo program, in fact, has long been proven at all levels: this program has long been included in school books, encyclopedias, and reference books. The technique of the Apollo program is studied in specialized universities, and the scientific results of the program formed the basis of a number of sciences - planetology, selenology, etc. Therefore, the requirements to re-prove what formed the basis of generally recognized knowledge look ridiculous enough. Who to prove? Specialists in the field of astronautics, history of technology, selenology? They do not ask them to prove something again and again. Personally, Popov and his supporters? No one is obliged to prove anything to Popov. Popov may doubt anything, even though Antarctica exists - but Popov’s doubts do not impose any obligations on geographers: no one is obligated to answer his questions, Popov’s, and the declaration “the defense (of the existence of Antarctica) failed” will be perceived as reason to doubt its adequacy. Requirements to prove the reality of the Apollo program again and again are akin to the requirements to prove that Antarctica exists or that the Earth is not square
            "

            Not an argument at all (for me).
            1. snek
              0
              17 December 2012 13: 34
              Quote: Eugene
              Not an argument at all (for me).

              Well in that link the subsection is more interesting
              http://apollofacts.wikidot.com/hoax:people-popov-ignorance
              Lyapus Popov there shown quite well. In general, everyone believes in their own, I repeat - sooner or later (when exploring the moon) evidence will come up conclusively proving one of the versions.
              1. Brother Sarych
                +3
                17 December 2012 13: 58
                And it seemed to me that all this is somehow not particularly convincing according to your link - some unscientific intonations slip, quite resembling a kind of hysteria! This often happens when people who do not know the material very much, who imagine themselves to be great scientists, encounter a real rebuff to their seemingly proven theories ...
                I personally do not really care much about the problem, little will change if it is proved that they did not fly, or the fact of flight is confirmed - but somehow it all looks painfully suspicious that there is suddenly no real evidence when someone has something wants to check ...
      2. +3
        17 December 2012 13: 07
        "Lunosrach" This is strong !!! ++++++++++++++++++++++ good wassat drinks
        1. snek
          +3
          17 December 2012 13: 16
          Quote: SrgSoap
          "Lunosrach" This is strong !!!

          Well, the author of the expression is not me - I "picked up" the word from Lurkmorya
          http://lurkmore.to/Луносрач
          1. +1
            17 December 2012 13: 21
            it doesn’t matter, to quote in time ... one must also be able to ... hi
            1. snek
              +1
              17 December 2012 13: 27
              Quote: SrgSoap
              quote on time ... must be able too ...

              Thank you feel drinks
  8. +4
    17 December 2012 12: 37
    I’m sure that they flew, but the most incomprehensible thing for me is the sharp end of the program .... 4 more saturns were ready ... By the office. versions disassembled them ....
    This is really strange.
    1. +3
      17 December 2012 13: 51
      Quote: cucun
      I’m sure that they flew, but the most incomprehensible thing for me is the sharp end of the program .... 4 of Saturn was ready ...

      There was nowhere else to fly. And there is no need.
      Priority has been obtained, and there can be no talk about lunar bases and the industrial exploration of the moon, while the payload is 1% of the starting mass of the space-rocket system.
  9. 0
    17 December 2012 13: 26
    Here http://www.falsehood.me/ not like the moon, it turns out they didn’t fly anywhere :-)
  10. Antistaks
    -3
    17 December 2012 13: 28
    Here a person has already written about this, but not everyone can see the small letters.
    AMERICOSES INSTALLED A MIRROR REFLECTOR ON THE MOON so that the laser accurately measures the distance to the moon. Whoever doesn’t believe, let him take a powerful laser, shine on the moon and get a laser bunny in the eye (and preferably in the brain).
    1. +2
      17 December 2012 19: 00
      Well, why yell so much, as if you were being cut, the corner reflector was on the Lunokhod, and why? (I don’t enter into an argument, I already argued in due time).
      1. Antistaks
        0
        18 December 2012 00: 28
        Oru because patriots got a bang of tank armor flashing anti-personnel cartridges.
  11. thatupac
    +5
    17 December 2012 16: 13
    They were not there. Therefore, since 1972, they do not "fly" there anymore, so as not to get burnt in forgery. In 72, only the USSR and the USA could control the fact of sending a person to the moon. And nowadays there would be much more such countries.
    1. snek
      +1
      17 December 2012 18: 21
      Quote: thatupac
      at present there would be much more such countries.

      To date, only 3 countries have been able to send a person into space on their own, and you are talking about many countries that would fly to the moon.
      1. thatupac
        +3
        17 December 2012 20: 26
        I write about the fact that only the USSR and the USA had the equipment at that time to accurately determine the landing of a man on the moon. And right now, the technique in many countries is such that it is unrealistic to carry out a deception with a landing. Fawn.
  12. USNik
    +4
    17 December 2012 16: 15
    An article, plus, well, I do not believe that in hoary antiquity They were there, but now they cannot. Although they really need, the scenery is transported from Hollywood to the moon. I’m ready to eat this post if I see a fresh photo or video of the moon car / moon module, etc. large things on the satellite (preferably against the background of stars and earth) provided NOT by NASA, but by third-party powers. By the way, did the Japanese seem to have recently flown around the moon at the landing sites of the Apollo? Does anyone have pictures?
    1. 0
      17 December 2012 16: 50

      clickable to gigantic sizes (21px × 467px)
      1. 0
        17 December 2012 17: 14
        for orientation, it's here

        the Apollo 17 spacecraft module landed in the Taurus Mountains on the border of the Sea of ​​Tranquility and the Sea of ​​Clarity in the northern hemisphere of the Moon on its visible side.
        1. +1
          17 December 2012 22: 03
          Marmots too, around here laughing
          1. 0
            17 December 2012 22: 45
            They asked for a large photo - this is IT. Yes
            Where the gopher (Apollo-17) is unclear, but this is the maximum possible resolution of the pictures which is on the network in the public domain.
  13. +2
    17 December 2012 16: 40
    Soon the Chinese will trade in down jackets there.
  14. WW3
    WW3
    +5
    17 December 2012 17: 28
    To the direct question: “Why did they stop flying to the moon?”, The Americans have a peculiar answer:

    More questions than answers ... indeed, so many years have passed = no one has repeated the flight and is not particularly in a hurry to repeat ... there are some scientific versions that involuntarily pop up amers politely asked from there .... not to fly in more ... lol
    1. Cavas
      +4
      17 December 2012 17: 44
      Quote: WW3
      more questions than answers ... indeed, so many years have passed = flights so no one has repeated and is not particularly in a hurry to repeat.

      This is what makes me think. that it was a super disa!
      The question is the question, were they there or not?
      Take a freeze frame for 1. 57 seconds and you will see different shadows (not parallel) from the rock and the astronaut.
      And they covered everything with aliens!
      The version that interrupted the conversation on the air does not stand up to criticism at all - it is simply not possible. How did the operator on earth know in advance what the astronaut on the moon would say or see.
  15. Cavas
    +4
    17 December 2012 17: 59
    The debate has not subsided so far!

  16. WW3
    WW3
    +4
    17 December 2012 17: 59
    Quote: Cavas
    Take a freeze frame for 1. 57 seconds and you will see different shadows (not parallel) from the rock and the astronaut.

    Yes, with the shadow of something wrong ... here's another photo ... is it really Hollywood?
    1. Cavas
      +2
      17 December 2012 18: 07
      Quote: WW3
      Yes, with the shadow of something wrong ... here's another photo ... is it really Hollywood?

      I think the correct name is Bollywood! laughing

    2. 0
      17 December 2012 18: 18
      Quote: WW3
      Yes, with the shadow of something wrong ... here's another photo ... is it really Hollywood?

      There are no problems with shadows. This happens on an uneven surface.

      There is a problem with other things.
      1. WW3
        WW3
        +4
        17 December 2012 19: 47
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        There are no problems with shadows. This happens on an uneven surface.

        There in the video cavasa detailed enough that several. light sources? atmosphere on the moon? Are the details clearly visible even if the picture is against the sun and in the shadow? shorter than many glitches ...
        Houston, we have a problem! Yes
        1. -2
          17 December 2012 20: 35
          Quote: WW3
          in the video cavasa it is stated in sufficient detail that several. light sources? atmosphere on the moon? Are the details clearly visible even if the picture is against the sun and in the shadow? shorter than many glitches ...


          Usually everyone compares the lines and lighting in photographs - quite frivolous, controversial and generally meaningless things, because it is impossible to draw any conclusions about the relief, having only 2's dimensional image in front of him.

          NASA's Lunar Program has some really suspicious things, but ordinary people are not interested in this, it is easier for them to compare lines.
          1. WW3
            WW3
            +4
            17 December 2012 21: 03
            Comment on why the Amer flag flutters like from the wind? and changes direction? ....
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Usually everyone compares the lines and lighting in photographs - quite frivolous, controversial and generally meaningless things

            didn’t really say anything you took pictures against the sun? and how is everything clearly visible? especially on camera from the sweet sixties wink
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            NASA's Lunar Program has some really fishy stuff

            is your awareness intrigued? lol
            1. -4
              17 December 2012 22: 20
              Quote: WW3
              Comment on why the Amer flag flutters like from the wind?

              He does not hesitate. There is a L-shaped flagpole, which did not fully extend the horizontal post (because he is so crumpled). The flag sways from ordinary vibrations when it is touched or when an astronaut passes nearby (soil vibrations + lack of atmosphere are transmitted). The flag flutters for a long time, because there is no atmosphere, the oscillations die out for a long time. It's all nonsense.

              Quote: WW3
              especially on camera from the sweet sixties

              Filmed with the Swedish Hasselblad camera. In the Moscow "Berezka" such a device then cost 5000 rubles. Do you dare? wink

              Quote: WW3
              NASA's Lunar Program has some really fishy stuff
              is your awareness intrigued?

              Soil, the whole problem with the soil. The Soviet side received only 29 grams of regolith. + some more number of small stones (if interested, I can tell you more). This is a very serious charge. Even as many as two: firstly, there is too little, and secondly, the regolith is sand, it could easily be collected and delivered by an automatic probe. The third problem immediately appears - look at the photo of "Surveyor-3" at the end of the article - it has a very strange "bucket". According to the official version - for studying soil properties. But why exactly a ladle? This is usually done with a simple rod.

              29 grams of soil is the only suspicious place in this whole story, but no one pays attention to it. otherwise, the Lunar program does not raise questions. NASA's main counter-argument is that if there was a falsification, it would be impossible to keep a secret among such a number of people for 40 years. In any case, I will forgive NASA for this forgery, out of respect for their Voyagers, Mars rovers and orbiting observatories.
              1. 0
                17 December 2012 23: 42
                At one time, it was Surveyor-3 that made me believe in the reality of flights, but this only happened a year later from the moment I was included in the moon moon, i.e. no one could bring iron arguments in a year. And only thanks to a careful comparison of the ground surface taken by this machine in the report on its mission and photos of astronauts who trod around this machine, I realized that it was impossible to make a fake of this level. And there are a lot of oddities in the whole program ... The flag is not one of them.
    3. buruntuz
      +3
      17 December 2012 19: 51
      they have already painted the photo ... They (that is, the astronafts) "forgot" INITIALLY take at least ONE color camera with them ...
      What’s the camera there and these pictures are painted ... This was a sell of the century! Most importantly: they did not have these engines (capable of TECHNICALLY solving the lift problem) ...
  17. WW3
    WW3
    +4
    17 December 2012 18: 26
    Cavas,
    I accidentally looked at two videos you posted at the same time ... laughing ... so the amers look great with Indian music ... dance jimi ... drinks
  18. +5
    17 December 2012 18: 35
    I even regretted that I ran into this article, I’ll have to get dirty again)
    I will not say anything about the "arguments" in the article, they are not in the article, this is exactly what NTV did at one time in the program about the reality of "Apollo", they wanted the best ... I will not litter with links, I will just say that I have already said: America is an empire of lies and any of their statements must be rechecked, and if a doubt arises, then immediately go to the trash, and with this "program" only doubts, it would seem, are easier, they brought stones and distribute them to countries, and here there are only detective stories. thanks for the links, read
    1. snek
      0
      17 December 2012 18: 54
      Quote: AlexxxNik
      it seemed to be something simpler, brought stones and distribute by country

      Which they did. Repeat: the material, which provides a comparative analysis of the lunar soil brought by our automatic stations and donated by the Americans: "New in life, technology" Series "Cosmonautics, astronomy" No. 2, 1978
      http://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/znan/1978/02/2-him-lun-gr.html
      Mukhin less read with his notions about fake or disappeared soil
      1. +1
        17 December 2012 19: 07
        Well, it began, and a piece of moonstone donated to some prince, too lazy to look for, and claims to the ground from the French and someone else, with a subsequent ban on export. wait and see, while there is no convincing evidence, namely the soil could be like that
        1. snek
          -1
          17 December 2012 19: 15
          Quote: AlexxxNik
          Well, it began, and a piece of moonstone donated to some prince, too lazy to look for, and claims to the ground from the French and someone else, with a subsequent ban on export. wait and see, while there is no convincing evidence, namely the soil could be like that

          Have you even bothered to read? They gave the ground to our (Soviet) scientists. Scientists compared with our samples. They didn’t find any supports. What fakes can we talk about?
        2. snek
          -2
          17 December 2012 19: 46
          Quote: AlexxxNik
          too lazy to look

          Yes, and so I know where it comes from - this is a product of the not very healthy mind of the great geneticist / physicist / specialist in the field of the Spirit, etc. - Mukhina
  19. +3
    17 December 2012 18: 57
    I remember another ..
    "Is there life on Mars, is there life on Mars .... This is unknown to science ..."
    But the fact that we wiped the nose of America in our championship in 57 and 61 is a fact that no one thinks to dispute.
    And then what were-were-not? -
    We didn’t, sooner or later learn about it and we will laugh together at America
    They were good fellows, but practicality is 0,0.
    1. -1
      17 December 2012 19: 13
      Quote: Chen
      And here, the fact that we wiped the nose of America in our superiority in 57 and 61 is a fact that no one thinks to challenge

      It’s not worth it to be very capricious about this topic. wink All that we now know about the Solar System is obtained at 90% from Amer’s probes. The Soviet space program achieved success only where it was possible to simply and cheaply throw a pennant onto the surface of the moon or Mars, declaring its priority. But when it took real expensive and serious research, NASA took the lead.

      On December 2, 1971, the Soviet Mars-3 spacecraft made a soft landing on Mars and worked 14 seconds. The USSR was the first to land on Mars! Priority reached!

      On July 20, 1976, the American Viking-1 spacecraft landed on Mars and worked on the surface 6 years and 116 days, transmitting 10 000 panoramic pictures during this time, conducting soil, atmosphere and traces of life research.

      that is the difference between "Soviet space breakthroughs" and "hopelessly lagging states." By the way, not a single Soviet device was able to explore Mars (they all crashed or failed while in flight), everything we know about the Red Planet was obtained from NASA probes (20 expeditions) and the European Space Agency (1 expedition)
      1. Horde
        +1
        17 December 2012 20: 06
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        On July 0, 1976, the American Viking-1 spacecraft landed on Mars and worked on the surface for 6 years and 116 days, transmitting 10 panoramic images during this time, conducting studies of the soil, atmosphere and searching for traces of life.


        after the American lunar golivut show, the "successes" of the Americans on Mars look both funny and suspicious, choose to your taste.
      2. Cavas
        +4
        17 December 2012 20: 31
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        The Soviet space program achieved success only where it was possible to simply and cheaply throw a pennant onto the surface of the moon or Mars, declaring its priority. But when it took real expensive and serious research, NASA took the lead.

        Yes, you sho? lol
        Numb, but I didn’t know! request
        You have surpassed even the Americans in your worship of the West! laughing
        The Russians "have been working on reviving their hugely successful lunar program for some time now," says James Head, a renowned space explorer in the Department of Geological Sciences at Brown University.
        Head studied the archives of the lunar program, during which the former Soviet Union successfully completed three unmanned missions to the moon with sample delivery (Luna 16, 20 and 24), then landed two lunar rovers perfectly equipped with tools - Lunokhod-1 (Luna 17) and Lunokhod-2 (Moon 21), and launched several orbiting vehicles - all this more than 35 years ago.
        “These major advances, which have proven the amazing capabilities of robots, have not been replicated by anyone, including the United States,” says Head.
        1. -1
          17 December 2012 20: 58
          Quote: Cavas
          Yes, you sho?
          Numb, but I didn’t know! request

          It’s bad that you didn’t know.

          Soviet apparatuses have never been to the outer planets of the solar system, they have never been in the vicinity of Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune. All Soviet expeditions to Mars ended in failure (all devices crashed or failed on the way), because everything that is known about Mars is also obtained exclusively from Amer’s probes. Only in the last 15 years, NASA sent 12 expeditions to the Red Planet.

          Almost everything we know about the structure of the Universe was obtained from 4 NASA orbiting observatories - Hubble, Spitzer (IR spectrum), Chandra (X-ray) and Compton (gamma rays). Nothing similar was created in the USSR / Russia. Building space telescopes like Spitzer (pictured) is not about throwing pennants around.

          NASA is especially proud of 4 probes Pioneer 10,11 and Voyager 1,2 launched in the 70s to explore the outer regions of the solar system. In 2010, Voyagers reached an area in which there is no solar wind - Voyager probes were the first man-made objects to enter interstellar space.
          1. snek
            +3
            17 December 2012 21: 06
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            All Soviet expeditions to Mars ended in failure (all vehicles crashed or failed on the way)

            Not really. The orbital components (as opposed to the landing modules) of the Mars 2 and Mars 3 devices functioned successfully. Although in general, of course, the sovereign research program of Mars failed.
          2. Cavas
            +3
            17 December 2012 21: 09
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            It’s bad that you didn’t know.

            No need to engage in manipulation, do not turn into pimply.
            You wrote:
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            The Soviet space program achieved success only where it was possible to simply and cheaply throw a pennant onto the surface of the moon or Mars, declaring its priority

            The Americans themselves have proven the opposite! wassat
            Write literate and best of all the truth!
            1. 0
              17 December 2012 21: 48
              Quote: Cavas
              No need to manipulate

              Don't you like the facts? wink Voyager, Hubble, Compton, Cassini, Opportunity - yes, NASA also has something to be proud of)))

              Quote: Cavas
              The Soviet space program achieved success only where it was possible to simply and cheaply throw a pennant onto the surface of the moon or Mars, declaring its priority
              The Americans themselves have proven the opposite!

              Just the same, they confirmed my words lol ... Interplanetary stations "Messenger", "Juno", "New Horizons", the Mars rover "Curiosity", space observatories "Spitzer" and KEPLER ... we have nothing like this

              .
              Quote: Cavas
              Head studied the archives of the lunar program, during which the former Soviet Union successfully ... landed two perfectly equipped lunar rovers - Lunokhod-1 (Moon 17) and Lunokhod-2 (Moon 21) ....
              “These major advances, which have proven the amazing capabilities of robots, have not been replicated by anyone, including the United States,” says Head.

              Lunokhod-1 worked on the moon 10 months
              Lunokhod-2 worked on the moon 4 of the month and suddenly broke

              Mars rover Spirit worked on Mars 6 years
              The Opportunity rover has been operating on Mars for 8 years, the mission continues.

              And the illiterate Head is the same "expert" as you
              1. Cavas
                +3
                17 December 2012 21: 58
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Don't you like the facts?

                Are you a Jew (no offense to the Jews)? request

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Just the same, they confirmed my words

                No, you are definitely a Jew! laughing
                You probably at least count on the head amuse! laughing

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Lunokhod-1 worked on the moon 10 months





                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                And the illiterate Head is the same "expert" as you

                I watched you on the site, there is NO such an area where the opponent would not wipe you one place!
                1. Horde
                  +2
                  17 December 2012 22: 10
                  Cavas,
                  No, you are definitely a Jew!
                  You probably at least count on the head amuse!


                  , but you figure out how to insult and belittle the meaning of the country in the language he is promoting here - only a "citizen of the world" can. lives laughing
                  1. Cavas
                    +2
                    17 December 2012 22: 16
                    Quote: Horde
                    , but you figure out how to insult and belittle the meaning of the country in the language he is promoting here - only a "citizen of the world" can. lives

                    No, I’m not talking about that, but the question that answers the question of how Mikoyan is between the streams, between the streams ......, plus also an attempt to manipulate the terms, either resorting to them, or bouncing off them .., and as always you can’t prove anything, etc.! laughing
                2. -3
                  18 December 2012 00: 29
                  Quote: Cavas
                  You probably at least count on the head amuse!

                  Naturally you did not understand anything. Why get into a discussion in which you do not understand anything?

                  Quote: Cavas
                  Lunokhod-1 contacted the Earth after 40 years

                  Duck

                  The record for the duration of continuous communication is held by the Voyager-2 interplanetary station. For 35 years, Voyager has retired from the Sun by 19 trillion. kilometers, the station is already far beyond Pluto's orbit in interstellar space - the radio signal from there takes 19 hours. Voyager's transmitter power is 30 watts, however, NASA's long-range space communications systems (as well as antennas in Spain and Australia) continue to receive telemetry from the probe.

                  Quote: Cavas
                  I watched you on the site, there is NO such an area where the opponent would not wipe you one place!

                  Well, too stupid rudeness. The conversation with you is over.
                  1. Cavas
                    +2
                    18 December 2012 00: 57
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Well, too stupid rudeness.

                    And I really like it less and less - And it hurts the eye, and the ear hurts! feel
              2. Horde
                +1
                17 December 2012 22: 24
                SWEET_SIXTEEN,
                the hubl was launched in 1990, the digital and computer era has already begun, the reliability of electronics has grown dramatically, but in the Soviet Union perestroika was in full swing.
                Compton was launched in 1991 - the rest of the arguments are even later, if the Union would be, we could launch a lot of things ...
          3. Volkhov
            +4
            18 December 2012 22: 11
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Soviet apparatuses have never been to the outer planets of the solar system, they have never been in the vicinity of Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune. All Soviet expeditions to Mars ended in failure.


            As soon as they began to give orders for space on a massive scale, the space industry became "universal" with the addition of retired party apparatchiks, and these are not the Korolevs and Babakins at all - their reference point is America.
            1. Misantrop
              +1
              18 December 2012 22: 21
              Add more. The failures went when the responsibility for them began to be spread with a thin layer throughout the team, removing from the blow the mediocre boss. Do you know which weather forecasts were MOST accurate? Seriously, not for fun. These are those that were drawn up for long-range aviation during the bombing of Berlin at the beginning of the Second World War. What, since then has meteorology degraded or have there been less meteorological observation stations?
              1. -1
                19 December 2012 01: 58
                Quote: Misantrop
                Do you know which weather forecasts were MOST accurate? Seriously, not for fun. These are those that were drawn up for long-range aviation during the bombing of Berlin at the beginning of the Second World War. What, since then has meteorology degraded or have there been less meteorological observation stations?


                Beautiful bike

                Quote: Misantrop
                The failures went when the responsibility for them began to be spread with a thin layer throughout the team

                There were no failures. We did not have expeditions to the outer regions of the Solar System. Reason: Too expensive and complicated.
                The Center for Long-Range Space Communication (Yevpatoria) had a limiting communication range of only 360 million km
  20. Horde
    +1
    17 December 2012 19: 58
    have you tackled the "moon" again? on our site, and over the past year, two times the Hollywood show of the Americans was dismantled, I was there emphasizing the impossibility of flying based on the WEAK engine F1, which by no means pulled out the lunar program of pin dosov. "public" opinion.

    http://free-inform.com/
    http://free-inform.com/pepelaz/pepelaz-13.htm
    Reading the materials "freeinform" came across a study of the so-called "lunar toilet", no matter how it looked frivolous, but this is only at first glance. All these talks about the "wobble-wobble" of the striped flag in the studio, or why the stars suddenly disappeared from the the sky, or even the study of the "natural slope" of the lunar soil by Mukhin, the arguments are good, but as it were already yesterday, but the program of "human life support" or, rather, absolutely weak study of this program is already an interesting argument in favor of Kubrick's Hollywood production.
    How did the Americans arrange a toilet for their astronauts? The story is hidden from the eyes of the world community, it turns out that all 10-12 days of a round-trip flight, the Americans used a urine collection bag with a hose and a 3-liter tube inside the returned module, and on more serious matters "bags that were attached to the butt and adjacent parts. ! It is clear that such a system could not work reliably, I’m about the tightness, so the contents of the intestines of the amers would certainly get into the atmosphere of the ship, so you can imagine what was going on inside the ship. By the way, NASA horns wrote themselves that- "after the bags filled them in thrown into space ", but in the returned module


    in addition to the hatch of the inlet-outlet there were no more holes (it is dangerous to have extra joints when leaving the atmosphere to heat more than 1500 degrees) so imagine the Patsaks took off their spacesuits, which were at least in shit, but in defense they had to make a flight by putting them in bags and then opening them again they opened them again a window, i.e. the hatch was thrown a bag with parts of the motherland into space, then the hatch was closed. I recall for proper orientation in space the pepelats should not have any disturbance-rotation, but what was to be done with the bag or even with the bags (they write that the patsaks did not refuse to eat anything) , i.e. when opening the window into space, it was possible to give the device rotation. In short, the process of life support in space is a torment (and who said it would be easy?), But everything (NASA's answers and the weakness of their argument says that the issue of life support is NOT WORKED at all) For example, Gagarin’s flight was already equipped with a special ACS space toilet.
    1. Cavas
      +1
      17 December 2012 21: 03
      Quote: Horde
      have you tackled the "moon" again? on our site we have already dismantled the Hollywood show of Americans TWO TIMES over the past year, I stressed there the impossibility of flying based on the WEAK F1 engine

      You are on time, otherwise I already wanted to switch to engines. good

      1. Horde
        +1
        17 December 2012 21: 45
        Cavaswelcome!

        for some reason, Mukhin's argumentation among the followers of nasa is not convincing, about the landing of the lunar cabin on the surface at Mukhin is completely convincing, but at Shevchenko's nasarog it is simply ridiculous. there was NO NECESSARY GAP between the landing platform and the module returned (from the moon) for the reactive gases there was NOTHING to expire. This is very imprudent on the part of American filmmakers because ALWAYS and even Americans make a GAP between the jet nozzle and the launch surface for their missiles, otherwise an explosion or gases escaped in one direction, and the device, respectively, in the opposite direction and the device flew towards the horizon.


        1. Cavas
          +1
          17 December 2012 22: 13
          Quote: Horde

          Cavas, welcome!

          Horde, my respect! hi
          Mukhin, in my opinion, correctly explained everything.
          But with your opponent you do not prove anything, in my opinion there is a difficult case! laughing

          1. Horde
            +2
            17 December 2012 22: 50
            Cavas,
            But with your opponent you do not prove anything, in my opinion there’s a difficult case


            yes, I think "sweet ..." fulfills the order in the manner of "everything is bad for us, but for them ...", only the dude lacks professionalism, the sense of perspective is weak, the feeling of harmony and coherence of presentation suffers, they will not say about such "he has a light feather", don’t you?
            1. snek
              0
              17 December 2012 23: 11
              It’s like I didn’t interfere in this thread, but here ...
              Quote: Horde
              I think "sweet ..." fulfills the order in the manner of "everything is bad for us, but for them ..."

              Comrade All the same, the horde is not entirely yours ... I don’t even know how to say whether it’s the right attitude to those around you and the surrounding reality. Nobody ever pays anyone to let this person sit and write something on the forum. Here everyone expresses what they think and nothing more. I was jarred when, in a long-standing dispute on the same topic, they said that Leonov was a traitor, but I did not start to write down what people had come to. You can lead a normal dispute, and for that I respected you as an opponent, but then something bore you.
              1. Cavas
                +1
                17 December 2012 23: 26
                Quote: snek
                You can lead a normal dispute, and for that I respected you as an opponent, but then something bore you.

                It happens that it’s just that a person is angry that an opponent is belittling the achievement of Soviet cosmonautics.
                No one argues that the amers did in space, but it is not worth belittling the achievements of others.
                Despite the accumulated problems, the Russian unmanned space program is still alive. "The situation is much more optimistic now," says Marov.

                Indeed, Russia has an enviable list of achievements in research on Venus, the Moon, and Halley's comet, ”explained Marcia Smith, editor of SpacePolicyOnline.com.

                "Despite the setbacks, Russia today has ambitious plans for the development of the planets, which are quite achievable technically," said Smith, "but are financially constrained, which could lead to delays in their implementation and increased interest in international cooperation."




                So it's too early to bury us! hi
              2. Horde
                +3
                17 December 2012 23: 31
                Quote: snek
                Comrade All the same, the horde is not entirely yours ... I don’t even know how to say whether it’s the right attitude to those around you and the surrounding reality. Nobody ever pays anyone to let this person sit and write something on the forum. Here everyone expresses what they think and nothing more. I was jarred when, in a long-standing dispute on the same topic, they said that Leonov was a traitor, but I did not start to write down what people had come to. You can lead a normal dispute, and for that I respected you as an opponent, but then something bore you.


                here the situation is such a snack MY country is in a state of war, how else to characterize the situation when pieces are falling from it, and the people are dying out, this war has a name - this is INFORMATION WAR, there are much more victims on it than in a hot war and therefore we are me , kawas, others on the one hand, but such as suite sistine, professor, and you, too, along with your Leonov in another trench about you, I have not experienced any delusions for a long time, and therefore "in war, as in war" ...
                1. Cavas
                  +1
                  17 December 2012 23: 41
                  Quote: Horde
                  "in war, as in war"

                  Is it really that serious?
                  Then fight like that.!

                  Here we will see: À la guerre comma à la guerre

                  And we are proud, and our enemy is proud,
                  Hand forget about laziness.
                  Let's see who's over the top
                  Let's see who's over the top
                  In the end, bend his knees.



                  Horde! hi
                2. snek
                  -3
                  18 December 2012 00: 00
                  Quote: Horde
                  suite sistine, professor, and you also had a snack with your leonov in another trench

                  Oh, if you would shoot us (me, professor, Sistine, Leonov’s retinue) and people like us, we would immediately have a mother who would have healed in Russia, but if we don’t live underneath, vile rats feeding the State Department and gnawing ... Horde, you yourself not funny?
        2. Horde
          -1
          17 December 2012 23: 11
          in general, I look at this "descent module" and begin to understand the phrase "through thorns to the stars" the impression is that the module did not hit the "moon" through the vacuum of space, but was wading with varying success through the Amazonian jungle and suffered a lot. looks like a "Flying Dutchman" from "Pirates of the Caribbean" by Francis Drake neither rudder nor sails, but still, how does it move ... laughing
    2. -2
      17 December 2012 22: 15
      What places can you kiss for GOLD words in NASA’s coffin ?! laughing
      1. snek
        -1
        17 December 2012 23: 14
        Quote: Papakiko
        What places can you kiss for GOLD words in NASA’s coffin ?!

        A man asks a man what places he needs to be kissed ...
  21. +3
    17 December 2012 20: 10
    You forget that the USSR had a great successful program for exploring Venus with flyby, radar scanning and landing, and the conditions on its surface are generally exceptional in temperature, pressure and aggressive chemical composition of the atmosphere.
    The American program of her research included only distant overflights.
    It’s just that the Soviet team of engineers preparing the Martian program turned out to be weak, this should be recognized.
    1. Horde
      +2
      17 December 2012 20: 22
      Quote: stolbovsn
      You forget that the USSR had a great successful program for exploring Venus with flyby, radar scanning and landing, and the conditions on its surface are generally exceptional in temperature, pressure and aggressive chemical composition of the atmosphere.


      local nasarogi will lay bones for mother America because green leaves such a pleasant rustling ... laughing
    2. -1
      17 December 2012 20: 41
      Quote: stolbovsn
      You forget that the USSR had a great successful program for exploring Venus with flyby, radar scanning and landing, and the conditions on its surface are generally exceptional in temperature, pressure and aggressive chemical composition of the atmosphere.


      Well, firstly, the map of the relief of Venus was made by the Magellan probe
      Secondly, conditions in space are extremely aggressive everywhere

      Thirdly, in the Solar system of the 8 planets (except Earth). The USSR was able to more or less explore the nearest Venus. And who investigated Mercury (Mariner-10, MESSENGER), Mars (20 expeditions), Jupiter, Saturn?
      Who visited the vicinity of Uranus and Neptune? (Voyager 2)
      Who sent the probe to Pluto? (New Horizons)
      Almost everything that we know about space has been obtained from NASA and arguing here is useless.
      1. Horde
        +1
        17 December 2012 21: 09
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Well, firstly, the map of the relief of Venus was made by the Magellan probe
        Secondly, conditions in space are extremely aggressive everywhere


        your Magellan was launched in 1989, and the Soviet Venus program by that time counted 16 successful and almost successful launches to Venus, besides that, they were landing on the surface. In short, we are not standing with us along Venus. Your statement that amers is more successful in space is soft let's say the VOTE ..
        1. -2
          17 December 2012 21: 36
          Quote: Horde
          your magellan was launched in 1989, and the Soviet Venus program by that time counted 16 successful and almost successful launches to Venus, besides there were landings.In short, on Venus, we are not standing next to us. Your statement is that amers are more successful in space, to put it mildly VOICE..


          laughing
          The first unit to reach Venus of Venus was the American probe Mariner-2 (December, 1962 year). It was he who first discovered the high temperature of the planet’s atmosphere and the absence of a magnetic field
          1. Horde
            -1
            17 December 2012 21: 58
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            The first unit to reach Venus of Venus was the American probe Mariner-2 (December, 1962 year). It was he who first discovered the high temperature of the planet’s atmosphere and the absence of a magnetic field


            Well, what, when he was second in twenty years, but what did he investigate there? and was he at all? pin dos at that time climbed into orbit with difficulty.
          2. WW3
            WW3
            +5
            17 December 2012 22: 26
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            The first unit to reach Venus Venus was the American probe Mariner-2 (December, 1962).

            List of successful launches of spacecraft that transmitted information about Venus [25] [26].
            Country Name Launch Note
            USSR Venus-1 February 12, 1961 The first flight past Venus. Collection of scientific information
            USA Mariner-2 August 27, 1962 Span. Collection of scientific information
            USSR Probe-1 April 2, 1964 Flight. Collection of scientific information
            USSR Venus-2 November 12, 1965 Span. Collection of scientific information
            USSR Venus-November 3, 16 Reaching Venus. Collection of scientific information
            etc.
            .hi
            http://wiki-2.3dn.ru/publ/kosmos/venera/1-1-0-11
            1. -4
              18 December 2012 00: 06
              Quote: WW3
              USSR Venus-1 12 February 1961 The first flight past Venus. Collection of scientific information

              You shouldn't have highlighted "Venus-1" in bold. Venus -1 went out of order long before the meeting with Venus.

              The first device to actually conduct research on the Morning Star was the Mariner-2.
              1. WW3
                WW3
                +4
                18 December 2012 00: 29
                The first research apparatus sent by earthlings to another planet was the Soviet automatic station Venera-1, which was launched on February 12, 1961. Three months later, it passed at a distance of about 100 thousand kilometers from Venus and entered the orbit of the Sun's satellite. The main tasks of the Venera-1 station were to test the methods of launching space objects onto the interplanetary route, to test ultra-long-range radio communications and control of the station, and to conduct physical research in space.

                In December 1962, the American probe "Mariner-2" flew 35 thousand kilometers from Venus

                http://sesii.ucoz.net/index/planeta_venera/0-53
                http://kursovikna5.ru/6285_planeta_venera_prezentatsiya/index.html
                You have everything in the USSR is bad and amers have everything class? ....
                1. -6
                  18 December 2012 00: 49
                  Quote: WW3
                  The first research apparatus sent by earthlings to another planet was the Soviet automatic station Venera-1, which was launched on February 12, 1961. Three months later, it passed at a distance of about 100 thousand kilometers from Venus and entered the orbit of the Sun's satellite. The main tasks of the Venera-1 station were to test the methods of launching space objects into interplanetary

                  Do not boil like this and sprinkle links.
                  Venus-1 failed on the seventh day after launch.
                  According to ballistic calculations, in May 1961 it was supposed to pass in the vicinity of Venus.

                  In 1962, Mariner-2 flew past the Morning Star, transmitting data on the composition of the planet’s atmosphere, rotation parameters and magnetic field (or rather, its absence).
      2. +2
        17 December 2012 22: 19
        The Bible also says a lot, why don't they accept it on faith?
        And what other worlds look like in HOLIDA do not bother. wink
  22. Horde
    +2
    17 December 2012 20: 53
    NASA, in response, cite numerous photographs of the Harrier vertical take-off aircraft. Where the landing operations are conducted in the field, the Harrier is very dusty, but, alas, no crater is formed under it. It is worth noting that the Eagle’s landing stage engine was two times weaker than the Harrier’s powerful engine with a 10 ton load.

    And why didn’t you show in the picture, the place of take-off of the harrier? maybe the device takes off from a concrete slab ?, maybe just there a crater is formed? INCORRECT!

    1. 0
      17 December 2012 21: 05
      Quote: Horde
      And why didn’t you show in the picture, the place of take-off of the harrier? maybe the device takes off from a concrete slab ?, maybe just there a crater is formed? INCORRECT!


      Please

      After all, is it enough for you that the trees in the background are not uprooted? And keep in mind that the thrust of the Pegasus turbojet engine is 10 tons, and the thrust of the LRE of the landing stage "Eagle" is 4,75 tons.
      1. Horde
        +1
        17 December 2012 21: 51
        SWEET_SIXTEEN,

        Che please, you can’t see anything again ...
      2. -4
        17 December 2012 22: 22
        The moon, that a piece of monolithic stone "licked like a Jew's eggs" or a place slightly aligned with various flying space debris? What do craters talk about? belay wink
        1. Alver
          -2
          17 December 2012 23: 19
          huh, compare the landing of an airplane (even more powerful) and the landing of a piece of rock (minus the friction loss about something that is not on the moon) and measure with a tape measure (such as a ruler so long)
        2. Cavas
          0
          17 December 2012 23: 34
          Quote: Papakiko
          The moon, which is a piece of monolithic stone "licked like a Jew's eggs"

          Your "knowledge", the question of which is more, will take you far, "eggs have a Jew" or the Moon - stop!
  23. ICT
    +2
    17 December 2012 21: 20
    Quote: Horde
    why didn’t you show in the picture, the place of take-off of the harrier? maybe the device takes off from a concrete slab ?, maybe just there a crater is formed? INCORRECT!


    there is generally an incorrect comparison, completely different engines are compared, with different jet physics
  24. Sadikoff
    +4
    17 December 2012 21: 28
    There really were some American lunar expeditions, and some were forcedly removed in the pavilions, since they were not on the moon then.
  25. Alver
    +1
    17 December 2012 23: 16
    but for me, there were amers on the moon, otherwise ours would have burned them and the scandal (because I think that in those days the majority of the teams were smart on both sides and didn’t push them, but on the contrary, because the progress was, let's say, more dynamic than that) to real scientists and specialists, my respect
    1. Cavas
      0
      17 December 2012 23: 55
      Quote: alver
      but for me, there were amers on the moon, otherwise ours would have burned them and the scandal (because I think that in those days the majority of the teams were smart on both sides and didn’t push them, but on the contrary, because the progress was, let's say, more dynamic than that) to real scientists and specialists, my respect


      1. snek
        -1
        18 December 2012 00: 13
        Cavas, believe in the conspiracy - believe, your right, but do not disgrace and do not cite the materials of the great Mukhin (and the video is just that). He is also a geneticist.
        Now look: young females in animals, as a rule, have the first mating with the best male, with the leader of the herd. But for subsequent mating, the male can already be removed by young males. As a result, the next offspring of this female will have half of the Spirit and chromosomes from her, half of the Spirit from the first male and half of the chromosome set from regular males. In the mammalian world, only the first children come from two parents, and the subsequent ones from three: one mother and two fathers. This is a new stage of evolution compared to birds.

        here is a link to his article where it came from (in his own newspaper): http://www.duel.ru/200412/?12_8_1
        And the physicist:
        The adequacy of my hypothesis is exceptional! According to this criterion, Einstein’s relativity theory does not fit my theory of life: to agree with his theory, you must admit that you are an idiot, confident that he lives in two worlds at the same time, while the verified Newton’s laws operate in one world and the hypothetical laws in the other Einstein’s laws.

        From the same article (laziness to search for it even more chic pearls from other sources).
        And here is the whole depth of his exposures of the lunar program:
        http://apollofacts.wikidot.com/hoax:people-mukhin-delusions
        1. Cavas
          +2
          18 December 2012 00: 33
          Quote: snek
          http://apollofacts.wikidot.com/hoax:people-mukhin-delusions

          That you do not disgrace! laughing
          The hypothesis is published in the link! Only after testing the hypothesis can we conclude that it is true or false.
          Quote: snek
          And here is the whole depth of his exposures of the lunar program:

          The second link, you know how to read "The purpose of the site is not:

          evidence of the reality of Americans flying to the moon;
          "! laughing
          It remains only to laugh at your sources and knowledge! wassat

          This is not Mukhin !? wassat

          1. snek
            -3
            18 December 2012 01: 07
            Cavas, here you are acting as the defender of the Russian cosmonautics (and, as I understand it, from these positions you are opposed to the reality of the program, like we couldn’t, which means the Americans are all the more so). Here are the opinions of several people who have something to do with the Russian cosmos and, excuse me for being arrogant, would venture to assume that they know more about this topic than both you and I together:
            Alexey Leonov (astronaut):
            Seriously believe that the Americans were not on the moon, can only absolutely ignorant people.

            Source: http://ria.ru/science/20090720/177908258.html#13557774765372&message=resize&relt
            o = register & action = addClass & value = registration
            Konstantin Feoktistov (cosmonaut, designer - deputy general designer of NPO Energia):
            Arranging such a hoax is probably no less difficult than a real expedition. To do this, it would be necessary to land a television repeater on the lunar surface in advance and test its operation (with transmission to Earth) again in advance. And in the days of the expedition simulation, it was necessary to send a radio relay to the moon to simulate the Apollo radio communication with the Earth on the flight path to the moon. And they did not hide the scale of work on the Apollo. And what they showed me in Houston in 1969 (Control Center, stands, laboratories), Los Angeles manufacturing plants for the Apollo ships and descent vehicles that returned to Earth should have been an imitation according to this logic ?! Too complicated and too funny.

            source - book Feoktistova Trajectory of life. Here is the electronic version of the relevant chapter: http://militera.lib.ru/explo/feoktistov_kp/09.html
            Victor Gorbatko (pilot-cosmonaut):
            No need to take this kind of statement seriously. The Americans were on the moon. Otherwise, we would have known about it and immediately exposed all their plans. After all, we have very powerful observatories equipped with special observation devices that allow you to track everything that happens in space.

            Source: http://rus.ruvr.ru/2011/02/09/43671265.html
            The astronauts Wolf and Grechko spoke about the same thing (I hope no need to tell who they are). If you think that smarter than these people and YouTube videos are more valuable to you than the manuscripts of our designers - the flag is in your hands.
            1. Cavas
              +4
              18 December 2012 01: 36
              Quote: snek
              flag in your hands.

              Keep your flag, especially American!
              I’ve seen better fakes!
              Soviet cosmonauts have argued all their lives that there is no UFO and no God! Why should I believe them? Because they were selected as cosmonauts?
              Then they began to say the opposite.
              Can you prove it (that there is no God and no UFO) ?????? request
              So I can not prove either one or the other!
              Did Feoktistov know what he was supposed to know or was he the head of the GRU?
              And frivolously I can reason as much as I like.

              But my opinion remains with me .. Ameres were not on the Moon, I hope in a few years, the NASA archives will open and everything will become clear to you, maybe.
              I repeat once again - no one belittles NASA's merits, but I do not idealize them, unlike you, otherwise you will soon have the first astronaut African American Negro with a sonorous surname Obama!
              Soviet science did much more for less.
              1. +5
                18 December 2012 03: 46
                Quote: Cavas
                Keep your flag, especially American!

                It is useless to argue who has done more to study space, only the Americans who year of summer use kmks on our alliances and this will not come to an end
            2. +2
              18 December 2012 09: 18
              If you ask Leonov who killed Kennedy, do you think he will say that it was a conspiracy? And I think he will illuminate the official point of view that it was Oswald. Here it is the same.
              1. Cavas
                +2
                18 December 2012 09: 38
                Quote: Ruslan67
                It is useless to argue who has done more

                Quote: Alone
                It’s the same here.

                Guys, are you right and is it worth breaking spears !?
  26. +3
    18 December 2012 00: 24
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Filmed with a Swedish camera "Hasselblad"

    Hassel at least once? from the belly, without the ability to focus, without the ability to change the film, and remove a bunch of ABSOLUTELY sharp and CREATIVELY verified masterpieces, without a veil, without exposure, the film did not freeze, there is not even reticulation, ALL FRAMES are super !!!
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Almost everything that we know about space has been obtained from NASA and arguing here is useless.

    But for some reason, the Russians built the Sralnik on the ISS .. laughing
    I generally have two things that they just kill at Amers — HOW CAN I control it manually, it’s incomprehensible what-the fuel has long and hopelessly ended, and it remains in the OTHER module, GET THE LANDING DOOR with an accuracy of + \ - 1 degree ALWAYS AND ABSOLUTELY EXACT ????
    And HOW can you control MANUAL thrust, starting from the moon, get into the NEEDS near-moon orbit the first time, with the desired and ONLY TRUE speed, with different cargo on board and NEVER miss by ??
    1. snek
      0
      18 December 2012 00: 27
      Quote: Locksmith
      Almost everything that we know about space has been obtained from NASA and arguing here is useless.

      And here I agree with Sistine Suite - what is the name of the domestic apparatus flying somewhere except the moon, Mars and Venus? Moreover, we were wildly unlucky with Mars (not a single landing module worked so normally), and the majority of the missions of the Americans were successful. So sralnik is certainly good, and studying the outer limits of the solar system - everything here is not so good for us ...
      1. snek
        -1
        18 December 2012 01: 14
        A note to my comment above - the authorship of the quote does not belong to "Locksmith" but to "SWEET_SIXTEEN" (the former quoted the latter).
      2. 0
        18 December 2012 01: 27
        SNACK, as you said at the beginning ... really turned out to be a big moon moon ...
        1. snek
          -1
          18 December 2012 12: 54
          Quote: SrgSoap
          SNACK, as you said at the beginning ... really turned out to be a big moon moon ...

          Yes, we had a lot of fun)
      3. Kir
        0
        20 December 2012 01: 01
        I won’t say anything about the domestic one, but Hassel is not the standard for optics, then the pros either shoot on PhaseOne or on the basis of what it is Mamiya. Yes, by the way, look at my post a little lower for! 8 02:28, and try to clearly answer.
  27. +1
    18 December 2012 00: 41
    Quote: snek
    Quote: Locksmith
    Almost everything that we know about space has been obtained from NASA and arguing here is useless.
    And here I agree with Sistine Suite - what is the name of the domestic apparatus flying somewhere except the moon, Mars and Venus? Moreover, we were wildly unlucky with Mars (not a single landing module worked so normally), and the majority of the missions of the Americans were successful. So sralnik is certainly good, and studying the outer limits of the solar system - everything here is not so good for us ...

    It’s not necessary to juggle this is not my quote !!
  28. 0
    18 December 2012 00: 55
    I do not know...
    I am very suspicious of such a sudden and complete refusal of the Soviet leadership to the Lunar program .. (to destroy everything, to cut rockets into pig feeders ..). By the way, these small rocket engines accidentally survived and were bought by the same amers around the year at 98 at a fabulous price, so that's not the point.
    If anyone remembers, the 60 and 70 did not count money on defense and space, and a couple of exploding rockets and a hundred charred corpses (even with general stars) would not have stopped the Politburo. The USSR and America were then the only countries capable of tracking trajectories and the version says: amers were not on the moon, the USSR knew about it, and the amers knew what we know, that is, there was a gentleman’s agreement - we don’t spoil your holiday, and you tell us , support Detant (discharge) and buy our oil (for Marlborough cigarettes for Partaktiva) ..
  29. +2
    18 December 2012 01: 03
    Quote: SlavaP
    so it’s not a matter of technology

    Well, yes, only the Kuznetsov plant RESTORES the production of NK33-for amers, although they bought ALL the documentation for it, over the years they could not build ANYTHING !!!
  30. Kir
    +1
    18 December 2012 02: 28
    the situation over the years, were not more and more confused by both sides, firstly, why Hassel was chosen as a standard device for the photo, which is still superb but in terms of optics more "artist", because now they are, at least from photofans have heard they fly with Nikon, with sharper optics, and not with the same Mamiya, although there are 80Mp backs for it, and Nikonov has a maximum of 24.
    Then why now they are happy to use the "Eagles", although we, among other things, have given up their efforts, also for some reason use our food, etc., etc.
    Now with regards to Saturn 5, why now they are proudly announcing the creation of a heavy rocket that does not reach the brainchild of von Braun.
    Anyway, if you look through the prism of the past, taking into account everyday facts, you get the feeling that the flight was a purely advertising and propaganda project, and not as non-scientific.
  31. -1
    18 December 2012 09: 04
    In my opinion, the author is not quite up to date on this topic.
    Why compare the near-earth orbit and the surface of the moon. In near-earth orbit there is a magnetic field and the upper layers of the atmosphere, which fully protect from charged solar particles and gamma radiation from the sun. And how radiation safety was arranged on the surface of the moon is unclear. the same thing. And a very interesting phrase, "lead biological protection", does it mean protection from various biological life forms of the moon?
  32. USNik
    0
    18 December 2012 11: 23
    People will be so fresh photos from the lunar orbit which show lunomobiles and apolons? And then throwing the same content is already tired.
  33. +1
    18 December 2012 16: 45
    Quote: Alone
    In my opinion, the author is not quite up to date on this topic.

    And just like amers, on the LIVE type of broadcast, they said that in their lunar module ON THE FLOOR A Puddle - WATER Poured out of the tank is just a song: f
    ellow: and they scooped it up in VACUUM overboard fool
    1. -2
      18 December 2012 17: 21
      Whose quote is the source?
    2. -1
      19 December 2012 01: 55
      Quote: Locksmith
      And just like amers, on the LIVE type of broadcast, they said that in their lunar module ON THE FLOOR A Puddle - WATER Poured out of the tank is just a song: f
      ellow: and they scooped it up in VACUUM overboard

      Again, they misinterpreted

      20 liters of water spilled out, the cabin was sealed at that moment, the water was collected in empty food bags and thrown overboard during the next exit to the surface.
  34. +2
    18 December 2012 17: 15
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Computers, advanced training, ballistic calculations and space mechanics, help from the Earth.

    The computer then was ... 8 bit calculator smile
    Highest training - on earth, they could not work out the landing technology, broke the training module and ... There were no ballistic calculations of a circumlunar orbit either, it simply did not exist, the amers did not have an automatic docking system, and accordingly there was no telemetry. And how they "are able" to dock, this was shown by the joint flight "Soyuz" - "Apollo", ours were there to the fullest ... smile
    1. -2
      19 December 2012 01: 53
      Quote: Locksmith
      The computer then was ... 8 bit calculator


      If you did not have a computer at home in the sixty-ninth year, this does not mean that they were not at all. Computers were.

      Of course, the computers installed on the Apollo were several orders of magnitude weaker than the computer currently on your desk in all respects (except for the price - here the ratio is probably the opposite). The computer installed on the lunar ship had only about 4 KB of RAM (ferrite RAM for 2 048-bit words), a ferrite ROM for 15 36-bit words, consisted of 864 microcircuits, weighed 15 kg and cost 5000 thousand dollars. Now the data of this computer is not very impressive (again, except for the price), but in the 30s it was, perhaps, the first portable computers assembled with widespread use of integrated circuits.

      But even a low-powered computer is capable of a lot - if not loaded with fancy user interfaces. The computer control panel contained only 19 keys and several signal banners and digital indicators. Therefore, the computer was engaged only in direct responsibilities, not being distracted by drawing "windows" on the screen. And thanks to this, he could control the lunar ship in real time. Several tasks could be performed in parallel on the computer, and the control program took into account their priorities: more important tasks, such as ship control, were performed first of all, and, for example, issuing information to the indicators could wait a dozen or two milliseconds.

      Complex calculations of trajectories, requiring a large amount of computation, were done on powerful computers on Earth in advance, even before the flight, and their results were loaded into the onboard computer, which "used ready-made answers."

      Quote: Locksmith
      And how they "know" to dock, this was shown by the joint flight "Soyuz" - "Apollo", ours were there to the fullest ...

      And what happened there, do not tell?
  35. -4
    18 December 2012 17: 20
    They flew, flew, in any case, no one has proved otherwise. Somehow I came across an article in which literally all the arguments in favor of "fake" were explained.
  36. +1
    18 December 2012 18: 06
    Quote: Su24
    a source?

    On the freeinform website, everything is laid out, chewed, documented. smile
  37. 0
    20 December 2012 00: 50
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Again, they misinterpreted

    20 liters of water spilled out, the cabin was sealed at that moment, the water was collected in empty food bags and thrown overboard during the next exit to the surface.

    Sometimes you have to think, WATER IN VACUUM DOES NOT HAVE SUCH CONCEPT AS "LIQUID", and secondly, the cabin was depressurized - one came from a "walk" wassat
  38. version1969
    0
    22 December 2012 19: 18
    The author of the article is incompetent in the issue that he undertook to write about.

    > the book "We Never Went To The Moon" (We never flew to the moon), written by the American writer B. Kaising in 1976. Actually, it was from this moment that one of the Main intrigues of the twentieth century began.

    The authorship of conspiracy theory is attributed to Keysing in vain. They did not believe in the landing much earlier. 1970 survey shows 30% of skeptics. The earliest newspaper report of doubts about a moon landing dates back to December 17, 1969. In 1971 over the lunar landing are already beginning to quiver in the cinema. The first book on the lunar scam appears in 1970. - a book by mathematician James J. Kraini “Did a man land on the moon?”.

    So the author of the article is completely wrong when writing that the intrigue began with Keysing.

    > Things like "a flag waving in a vacuum" or "no stars in photographs", of course, are designed for simpletons and do not contain any secret: the flag is hung on an L-shaped flagpole, and the stars are not visible due to the short exposure conditions of a brightly lit moon.

    The author undertook to write an article, but was not aware of what he undertook to write about.

    If he was competent, he would describe the argument of the skeptics with the flag like this: skeptics know very well that in a vacuum a flag can not only develop, but should do it even better than in the air. Skeptics know that air impedes their resistance to flag vibrations. There is no air on the moon, so the flag, when it is set and, accordingly, shaken, sways, and continues to flutter after it has been left alone for a long time. In this, I repeat, there are no oddities.

    Another thing is strange: after all, everything has its reverse side. In a vacuum, the flag will flutter for a very long time after being disturbed. But in a vacuum, the flag cannot RESUME already stopped oscillations after it calms down. After all, there is no air, and there is nothing to transfer momentum and energy to a faded flag. But in the frame, after the flag had calmed down, and stood for such a long time - its fluctuations suddenly intensified again, became very strong, while no one touched the flag. In the absence of contact with the flag, only an air wave can transmit impulse to it. In a vacuum, there is nothing to transmit momentum and there is nothing to resume vibrations.

    Another thing is even stranger: in all the media there is false slander against skeptics. They are credited with another argument, also related to the flag, but silly. It is said that skeptics, they say, do not understand why the flag shakes at the moment the flag is installed, when it is shaken with hands, and immediately after. Ostensibly, skeptics argue that "the flag cannot flutter in a vacuum." Which is sheer nonsense. The vacuum does not interfere, but, on the contrary, helps the flag to wobble: there is no air resistance. Only a complete idiot would argue that a flag cannot flutter in a vacuum.

    And these are the idiots who make skeptics of the media. According to media reports, skeptics are such a kind of idiots who do not believe that the flag can fluctuate in the air. Insolent slander is being erected on skeptics. As a result, it turned out, as it were, the VACCINATION from the real argument of the skeptics. Both that, and another - is connected with a flag. Only the skeptics' argument is that in a vacuum there is nothing to transmit momentum to a flag, although, of course, a flag can develop in a vacuum much better than in air. But the fact is that, in the minds of the population, this argument is confused with the sheer delirium attributed to skeptics of the media.
    1. version1969
      0
      22 December 2012 19: 19
      Then everyone would have wondered why the media slander so much together? ... The author clearly doesn’t cut the topic: well, why is his statement about the L-shaped flagpole? Does anyone know the design of the flag? Does the L-shaped flagpole somehow refute that there is nothing to transmit momentum to the flag in a vacuum? Proves that the flag fluctuates remarkably in a vacuum?

      ... Now the stars. The Americans really liked to attribute absolutely stupid, absurd statements to skeptics, as if they were their arguments, and then "smash the enemy to smithereens" with these, if I may say so, "arguments." Well, here's the flag. And also - they invented nonsense "Earth is nowhere to be seen in the photographs of Apollo", attributed this argument to skeptics with the help of the media, and then began to carry an imaginary enemy face down on a plate: here they are, pictures of the Earth ...

      They threw the idea to the masses that "there are no stars in their photos, oh, how strange." It was assumed that some dumb part of the population would believe the media and would use the "no stars" argument as proof of falsification. And the swindlers themselves will carry such skeptics around the table with their noses: here they are the stars, here! It's like with the Earth. With the help of the media, a pseudo-argument was thrown into the masses that, they say, there are no stars in their pictures, and this proves a scam. Some members of the masses were led, they are carried with their muzzles on the table: here it is, the Earth, here!

      It was supposed that with the stars it will be the same: here they are stars, here! But everything went differently ... NASA found voluntary fools-defenders. They were struck by a delusional thought: they say, the stars in the pictures should not come out! The situation turned out to be idiotic. There are stars in NASA's photographs. At the same time, the "defense strategy" is based on the fact that there should be no stars there.

      .. If the author was competent, he would write like this: the argument "the absence of stars in photographs" is refuted by the fact that there are stars in photographs. So no! The situation is idiotic! There are stars in the photographs, and the author refutes the argument “the absence of stars in photographs” by saying that they should not be there ...

      In general, for the formulation of the arguments of skeptics to the author two. He describes the arguments of skeptics as “a flag waving in a vacuum” and “the absence of stars in photographs,” but the first is not an argument of skeptics, it is a slander of the media against skeptics, attributing such nonsense to them instead of an argument. Skeptics have an argument with a flag, but it’s a completely different, not idiotic “flag waving in a vacuum”, and this idiotic is just that skeptics always give as an example of slander against themselves. The second - "the lack of stars in the photographs" - cannot be an argument of skeptics simply because there are stars in the photographs ...

      That is, the author, taking up writing, himself does not know who such skeptics are, and what arguments they use ....
      1. cropman
        0
        25 March 2013 14: 48
        Yura, and with this post you just proved that Bill Casing is a NASA agent ...
        After all, flag and stars are two of his six postulates.
    2. cropman
      0
      25 March 2013 14: 09
      Yura, stop flaunting conspiracy erudition!
      By the way, let me once again express my gratitude to you for the 200 links at the end of your site (this is a true encyclopedia of lunarism) - I still use it. Understand Yura, such as you are "skeptics" - one Athos and no one else. And we, for lovers, have to fight off the Spasins, the Severs and the Not-Passing Ones. There are two orders of magnitude more of them than you and Athos, so do not be surprised that we consider skeptics to be idiots, because they make the weather on most moon-hunters.
      And where does this flag flutter? I found a video where the flag is unrealistically motionless. There is no way to remove this on Earth:
  39. version1969
    0
    22 December 2012 19: 20
    > back in 1959, mankind was able to launch an unmanned probe to the moon, then what prevented a probe from being sent there with a man on board 10 years later?

    The author, probably, does not know about one important, overwhelming feature of the lunar apparatus: there are almost 100% accident rate. Such an apparatus can work without accidents only by chance, and several successful landings have been obtained only due to a large number of attempts ...

    To give information about lunar unmanned vehicles to skeptics is generally rudeness. After all, who are the lunar skeptics, how to define the lunar skeptic? A lunar skeptic, a "denier" is a person who believes that instead of people during the Apollo program, an unmanned automatic vehicle flew to the moon. Accordingly, a skeptic should know everything about unmanned lunar vehicles.

    > The second argument is lethal radiation!

    This is not an argument, but bullshit.

    > There is often an opinion that when flying to the moon, to ensure human safety, 10-20-100 centimeters of lead biological protection are required.

    Biological shielding is not made from lead. The lighter the atoms that make up the material, the better it protects against radiation. The best protection against radiation is organic materials, there is a lot of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen. If you need a metal, then aluminum with light atoms is better. Lead is the worst option, and the fact that the author of the "argument" with radiation advises him as a defense is further evidence of his illiteracy.

    > As for the spacesuits, they were certainly not rubber.

    Oh, and not skeptics who have been piling over the suit of spacesuits for many years to teach us.

    > the trajectory of the Apollo flight when crossing the belts was planned in such a way that the Earth at that moment was turned towards the ship by its North or South Pole, where the magnetic field strength and radiation level are an order of magnitude lower. Despite the seeming complexity of such a trajectory, specialists in space mechanics will only shrug their shoulders - for them to carry out such a calculation is just a common task.

    It is a myth that Apollo flew along such a trajectory. Tell me, did you write it off from the site www.skeptik.net/conspir/moonhoax.htm? This statement is wrong.

    First, this trajectory is VERY fuel-intensive. In fact, a much more powerful rocket is needed than they used to send the ship on a trajectory over the pole. For this reason, the over-the-pole path was not used.

    Secondly, such a trajectory does not reduce the dose of radiation. The dose is not taken in the belts. The ship flies through them for a very short time. The dose is taken near the moon and on the way to it, when the belts are already far behind. It does not matter what trajectory the spacecraft traveled through the belts - the astronauts do not take the dose in the belts. For this reason, the over-the-pole path was not used.
    1. version1969
      0
      22 December 2012 19: 22
      The myth that Apollo flew over the belt is an invention of a certain amateur - a voluntary "protector" of NASA. He believed the stupid "argument" of the would-be skeptics, as if astronauts would pick up some very large dose of radiation in their belts. He came up with a trajectory "above the pole", being completely unaware of what energy costs it requires, and how meaningless from the point of view of dose reduction. But he considered such a trajectory to be an effective means of reducing the dose, and attributed his delusional fantasy to NASA: they say, NASA launched the ship over the pole.

      This myth has been circulating on the Internet for many years, gathering details, and shame also NASA, which allegedly chose such a stupid trajectory, although NASA did not choose anything like it, it also shames the volunteer defenders of NASA, who make themselves unfamiliar with the real trajectories of Apollo. Here is the author of the article: he wrote off the myth and added the words "Despite ... the usual task", and considers himself very smart, but looks stupid: the Apollo did not fly over the pole.

      It is necessary to correctly refute the argument with radiation as follows: "Complete nonsense and an invention of skeptical fools that there is some kind of terrible radiation in the belts. There is no particularly high radiation there."

      > American astronomers, together with their Soviet colleagues, closely watched solar flares: in case of a threat of increased solar activity, the launch should be canceled and postponed to another date.

      Precisely www.skeptik.net/conspir/moonhoax.htm write off. Yatskin and Krasilnikov would be at least grateful, otherwise ...

      This is nonsense and Yatskin’s invention with Krasilnikov. It is impossible to predict a radiation storm, and to cancel a launch in advance: a solar storm is observed after it has already begun.

      Solar storms are not dangerous for Apollo for another reason: the walls on this ship are painfully thick, behind them you can hide from any radiation.

      > astronauts really got a good dose of radiation

      Well, "good" only in the sense of not dangerous: about rem, this is not a dose - ugh.
      1. cropman
        0
        25 March 2013 15: 07
        "Can't predict a radiation storm"?
        Jura, this is not about predictions, but about the time lag between the solar flare in the optical range and the arrival of charged particles caused by the flare to Earth. You will not deny that to overcome the path in 1 AU charged particles (their speed is 400 km / s) takes time? During this time, you can cancel the start. Yes, and there are cycles of solar activity, and interplanetary flight planning takes into account these cycles:
        cropman.ru/idei/im/
  40. version1969
    0
    22 December 2012 19: 23
    > As for low-Earth orbit, Russian cosmonaut Valery Polyakov spent 438 days on board the Mir station (a world record!) And returned safely to Earth. So everything related to radiation safety in near space does not raise any doubts.

    The author, however, confuses "near space" and "far space". The first is what is protected by the Earth's radiation belts. They are like a shield, like armor, protect both the Earth and the "World" from cosmic radiation. Outside the belts, radiation is significantly higher, but also not fatal.

    But the author showed his ignorance in this matter. It was about the dose that astronauts should receive in deep space - outside the radiation belts of the Earth. What is going on inside these belts, which protect the Earth with a concrete wall from radiation - this does not require the Mir station, here you can immediately bring the Earth's surface. We walk on Earth, on its surface, under the protection of belts, and no radiation kills us. And the Mir station is spinning in the same place - within the belts. It was about deep space, outside the protective belts.

    There, yes, there is no protection of radiation belts, radiation is high, but not fatal ...

    The author confuses near and far space.

    > Separately, I would like to note the fact that all the landings were planned in places that had just come out of the earth's shadow

    Not from the earth’s shadow (the Earth eclipses the moon very rarely - several times a year, and when it eclipses - it usually eclipses the entire moon at once). From the shadow of the moon itself, from the night side of the moon.

    Have you ever got up because of your computer, looked at a month? Well, so the part that is dark is not "Earth dwarfs". This is the night side of the Moon, it is fenced off from the Sun by the very body of the Moon.

    Here they are ships and put in the areas that came out of this shadow.

    > Looking for optical defects in photographs in the era of "Photoshop" is clearly a thankless task. You can add or paint over anything.

    We are not talking about "pretty pictures" for the general public, but about the original logs delivered on board the Apollo spacecraft. And you can edit the films with Photoshop.

    > Several clearly compromising photographs with three or even four astronauts on the moon turned out to be fakes from the NASA / fun art section of the website.

    Don't muddy the water. When a skeptic says that he worked with material registered in the NASA achiva as "frame number AS -..., film such and such, expedition such and such, date of shooting from the moment of the launch of the spacecraft, location on the Moon" - this cannot be fanart. Fanart is always registered as a fanart, it is never put in an AHIV as an original cassette with a film shot on the Moon, and even with the date and place of shooting.
    1. version1969
      0
      22 December 2012 19: 25
      The author casts a shadow over the wattle fence: cites what, being fakes, is registered on the NASA website as fakes made to entertain the public. This distracts attention from the work of skeptics who work with "raw", unprocessed photographic films delivered from the moon. Say, these skeptical fools mistook fanart for originals - ha ha ha! - this is the image of a skeptic the author is trying to form among the public.

      > Accusations of the absence of images of the Earth on the "lunar" photographs (and where there is Earth, on the contrary, all elements of the lunar landscape disappear in a strange way) can be explained by the choice of landing sites for the Apollo - the Earth, for quite certain reasons, was at that moment too high above the lunar horizon (checked by any free astronomical program).

      Here is the author! Well I wrote above: the argument "no Earth" is sheer nonsense. The skeptics have an opinion: this delusional, if I may say so, "argument" was thrown into the masses by the swindlers themselves. So that there are people among the people who would believe this "argument". So that later these people could be carried with their muzzles on the table: here is the Earth, here!

      But, I have to take you with these words to the table.
      Here it is Earth, here: http://www.skeptik.net/conspir/moonhoax.htm#earthp.

      After all, you are copying the page www.skeptik.net/conspir/moonhoax.htm, but you didn’t even honor to read what it says about the Earth in the photographs. There is the Earth on the "moon" photos, the words that it allegedly is not there is complete nonsense.

      Or did you plagiarize not the page itself, but one of its many retellings? Admit it, you haven't tested anything with a "free program"? You were told that there was no Earth, you believed ...

      > You can often hear well-founded accusations regarding the absence of any crater at the landing site of the "lunar module" and, in general, traces of the impact of a jet stream.

      These accusations are slander. There is a crater there.

      > According to NASA, the astronauts have installed laser reflectors on the moon.

      I must say, according to skeptics, too.
      Who are the "moon skeptics", can you summarize?
      I'll give a definition. A "lunar skeptic" is a person who adheres to the point of view that the object that flew to the moon and installed laser corner reflectors there was an unmanned automatic station, which also transmitted a signal that was registered by Soviet tracking stations.
    2. cropman
      0
      25 March 2013 15: 30
      Sorry, Jura, but it’s incorrect to compare Van Allen’s belts with a concrete wall!
      They can be compared to a leaky umbrella. Will protect from rain, but hardly from a shower. However, let me help you kick the site author for incompetence. You noticed, he writes: "... the Americans have managed to lose the original film ..." NOT A SINGLE FILM has been lost! They are all digitized, and even now they are available for download on the root tracker.org
      Another thing is that magnetic tape was lost with the recording of a television broadcast of Armstrong's first exit to the lunar surface. So in Australia, where the broadcasting telescope is located, they found a surviving copy and the recording was restored and even partially cleared of interference.
  41. version1969
    0
    22 December 2012 19: 25
    > After a comprehensive study of the "American soil", Soviet researchers came to the conclusion that these are really extraterrestrial samples, similar in properties to the lunar soil delivered to Earth by the Soviet automatic stations "Luna-16", "Luna-20" and "Luna-24" ...

    Read not a rehash, but original research data (see "Lunar soil from the Sea of ​​Abundance", M., "Science", 1975) - there the result is just the opposite of what you gave.

    > In recent years, about 20 kg of lunar soil has strangely disappeared from the NASA collection

    You retell the urban legend.

    > As for the opinion of Soviet cosmonauts and those who took a direct part in the "Space Race of the 60s", their opinion sounds very prosaic: the Americans were on the moon.

    Which coincides with the opinion of the "lunar skeptics" about what our cosmonauts should say.

    "Lunar skeptics" I think: the Americans did their scam in secret. A narrow circle of insiders should have known about the great SECRET - that a man did not land on the moon. Soviet cosmonauts were not initiated into this circle. No one initiated them into the SECRET - the man was not on the moon. They know nothing about the SECRET.

    And the truth is they don’t know.
    1. version1969
      0
      22 December 2012 19: 26
      > In 2009, the landing sites of Apollo and Lunokhod were photographed by the Japanese probe Kaguya and the American Lunar Reconaissance Orbiter (LRO). Of course, shooting from lunar orbit such small relief details are not of high quality. NASA experts point to subtle spots and shadows, explaining their origin by traces of the stay of terrestrial visitors ..

      On the photographs of "Kaguya", "Chandrayana" and "Chang'e" (you forgot to add the Indians and Chinese to the Japanese), there is indeed a barely distinguishable spot - the trail of a spaceship landing.

      A lunar skeptic "is a person who adheres to the point of view that the object that flew to the moon and installed laser corner reflectors there is an unmanned automatic station, which also transmitted a signal that was registered by Soviet tracking stations.

      Accordingly, one can see on the Moon what the "lunar skeptics" have been saying for many years that it should be visible: the trail of a spacecraft landing.

      > To the direct question: "Why did they stop flying to the moon?", The Americans have a peculiar answer: while the payload of 1% of the launch mass of the rocket is considered an excellent result, there can be no question of any industrial exploration of the Space.

      This is actually the correct answer ...

      ... Well, they plagiarized the page of my friend Krasilnikov - http://www.skeptik.net/conspir/moonhoax.htm, well, they’d put at least a link ...
      1. cropman
        0
        25 March 2013 16: 05
        Your hypothesis N + 1 with Athos suffers only one vulnerability.
        If it corresponds to historical truth, then the Americans made a more grandiose achievement than what they are claiming: they delivered robots to the moon that did all the work for people: they placed devices in the right places, stuck a flag, collected stones, threw them into the lunar module and even traces of the astronauts trodden, and then disappeared without a trace! Spielberg and Cameron have a rest ...
    2. cropman
      0
      25 March 2013 15: 53
      Yura! Well, there couldn’t be a circle of people who prepared a scam of such a scale NARROW!
      It included the entire astronaut squad, NASA management, customers and contractors of the drones you invented, space center technicians, flight control center operators and other and other ... See argument number 6 on my website: cropman.ru/letali/ -Lincoln's postulate is a serious thing . Nobody knew about the terrible secret of just two people (Bill and Monica). How long has this mystery remained a mystery?
  42. cropman
    0
    27 March 2013 11: 49
    cropman.ru/letali/
  43. 0
    24 September 2014 16: 10
    No one doubts Gagarin’s flight because there were other flights after him.
    But they don’t fly to the moon.

    Doubts are caused by the improbability of the success of the Americans (if it was). An amazingly short period for which the project was implemented, 8 years. Eight years, but this is the period in which they from scratch created space technology out of nothing.

    There was a great start to Satunrn-5, although there is no doubt about that. But where and with what the rocket flew - that’s the question. If the Americans really had the world's most powerful F-1 engine, why not use it now? Saturn’s power is not confirmed by anything, the Skyleb station was put into orbit with a mass of 77 tons, and part of the station was the last stage of the rocket itself. But Saturn-5, according to the passport TTX, could withdraw 140 tons simply in a fairing, without giving up part of itself.

    The Soviet N-1 was not completed, at the start it was not possible to reliably coordinate the work of 30 NK-33 engines, BUT those Americans who flew to the moon buy their engine in bulk, and they are not afraid of the fact that these engines have to be modified, since they did not have rotary nozzles.

    This is another serious argument that no human has yet set foot on any extraterrestrial body.

    40 years have passed. During this time, just to raise a patriotic mood at home, the Americans, having worked out the techno-technology, would fly to the Moon. 11 manned flights, six successful landings. All 13 flights of Skyleb were successful. So everything was reliable, which now do not fly at least once every couple of years? From flying to the moon, the technology of using Teflon in pans remained, and a super-powerful rocket and a record engine surprisingly quickly turned out to be unnecessary. They have been used for less than five years! Another record for Apollo missions.
  44. 0
    16 May 2018 16: 34
    Quote: Santa Fe
    comparisons

    Quote: Eugene
    I looked at the information on your (snek) link. I did not like her. It recalled how our scientists scolded M. Zadornov in the program "Gordonkikhot" (forgot how it was written correctly). I prefer the information for analysis: "argument-counterargument". And the information: "the argument, yes you tu.oy!" I don’t really. I’m not running into anything. I just didn’t like it (why I already wrote it).
    It would be interesting to everyone's opinion, after reading that information.