Military Review

If tomorrow is war?

154
Military experts continue to discuss the results of the reforms undertaken by the former Minister of Defense

If tomorrow is war?

“The scale of corruption and theft in the Ministry of Defense under the Minister of Anatolia Serdyukov is amazing,” said Anatoly Lokot, member of the State Duma commission on legal support for the development of organizations of the defense industry complex of the Russian Federation, on Friday 7 December According to him, “we have always criticized the team of the former Minister of Defense, but could not imagine the scope of corruption”. To defend Serdyukov with his “Marktan wagon train” after opening the facts of “squandering and selling off the assets of the defense ministry, there is no point,” the deputy said.

I think about the protection of the former Minister of Defense today and there can be no question. Although some high-ranking officials made statements like that, for example, “under Serdyukov” the social status of military personnel was raised, military pensions increased, “army transformations began” and, in general, “Serdyukov was an effective minister of defense”. Of course, “under Serdyukov” does not mean at all that positive transformations occurred as a result of his activity as Minister of Defense, but the question is different: why did he get fired if he was such an “effective reformer”?

According to the official version, Anatoly Serdyukov was dismissed, as noted by Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, “at least so that there is no doubt about the objectivity of the investigation being conducted.” The statement is clearly of a ritual nature, which is used in world practice precisely in the case when, for the time being, they want to hide the true reasons for the resignation of a high official. So let me assume that the motives for dismissing Serdyukov, to put it mildly, are somewhat different than they are voiced. It is to such a conclusion that the materials of the round table meeting on the topic “Reforms of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation: Where to Go Next?”, Held on November 14 in the Committee on Defense of the State Duma, sum up. Take, say, such an excerpt from a speech by Lt. Gen. Viktor Sobolev, the former commander of the 58 Army (2004 – 2006):

"NATO military analysts point out that as a result of the reforms carried out, the Russian Armed Forces are not able to more successfully solve problems even in local conflicts."


And further: “The Russian army does not have enough vehicles to transport troops over long distances, does not have enough aircraft and pilots who can fly in any weather, there is no single information system. The army lacks soldiers ... "

By and large, this quotation alone sounds like a verdict on the entire “tumultuous” activity of the Ministry of Defense headed by Anatoly Serdyukov. And at the meeting of the "round table" none of those present gave a positive assessment to the military department. So, Valentin Selivanov, the Chief of the General Staff - First Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Navy (1992 – 1996), the admiral, said: “... when the first steps of the military reform began, we then said that it was not a reform, but“ a defeat operation Soviet Armed Forces ". I believe that the main task now is to prevent the development of the success of the “operation” that was carried out ... For 21, not a single ship, not a single submarine was built a year. This I declare to you as a sailor. Over 315 years stories Naval fleet it wasn’t like that. ”

“Stop copying the construction of the Armed Forces on the model of the United States. Our army solves completely different tasks. Our Armed Forces are the protection of the state on its territory. They have a tool to ensure aggression and world domination. One cannot even approach this, ”said Colonel-General Boris Cheltsov, Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Air Force in 2000 – 2007.

“The failure of the tasks of military reform is largely due to the fact that their implementation is entrusted to completely unprepared“ professionals ”who do not understand the essence of the reforms, completely alien objects and goals of reform and are not responsible for the failures in the state of the Armed Forces and the defense of the state”, the general said - Colonel Alexander Rukshin, Head of the Main Operations Directorate of the General Staff - Deputy Chief of the General Staff (2001-2008).

And there are a lot of similar statements. Meanwhile, the results of the survey, reflecting the attitude of citizens of the country to the change of leadership in the Ministry of Defense, published VTsIOM.

55% of Russians believe that the decision on the resignation of Anatoly Serdyukov should have been taken much earlier, as with him the situation in the army deteriorated markedly.


At the same time, citizens believe that it is necessary to continue some of the reforms initiated by the former leadership in the Armed Forces and substantially correct the reforms in those areas where success has not been achieved. 74% of Russians support the continuation of the rearmament program of the army and navy. But undertakings that it is better to give up, recognized the transfer to civilians non-core for military functions (48%) and the reform of the military education system (48%). 66% of respondents want to stop reducing the size of the Armed Forces.

As we see, the opinion of the people and military leaders coincides. And - thank God that there are no indifferent ones. This is especially important in the condition of the Armed Forces, in which they were thrown back due to the “Serdyukov reforms”. General Viktor Sobolev, in particular, believes: “In fact, the army was destroyed in a way similar to how it was destroyed in 1917 after two revolutions. Requires a plan to build an army. We actually have none today. ” He, unfortunately, is right.

The disbanding of divisions and the creation of permanent readiness brigades on their basis was justified by the leadership of the Ministry of Defense with the need to increase the mobility of troops, the level of their operational and combat training. The goals are certainly good and it makes no sense to challenge them, but there are no scientifically based judgments about the unconditional benefits of the introduced brigade principle of recruitment.

In total, there are ten armies in the Ground Forces, and in each of them there should be 3-4 brigades of 5-6,5 with thousands of people. But in our "millionth" army there is currently a huge shortage - more than 20%, which is about 200 thousand people. So, at best, brigades are limited to combat readiness already by their manning. And considering that on each theater of operations (theater of operations) the enemy will be different, it must be opposed by troops (forces) with an appropriate organizational and staff structure. In the opinion of many military experts, for example, in the Eastern theater of war, not mobile brigades are needed, but strong divisions with high strike power and high firing capabilities. The statement of General of the Army Nikolai Makarov that the brigade is not inferior to the divisions in fire capabilities is far from the truth. In addition, a qualitative analysis shows that the share of modern weapons and military equipment is 20 - 30%, while in the armies of other countries this figure is more than 70%.

In the air force, the number of fighters of all types is approximately 650 units, the age of 55% of them exceeds 15 years, and the age of 40% ranges from 5 to 10 years. In the air defense forces, the arrival of new technology ceased in the 1994 year and was not resumed until the 2007 year.

There are huge “holes” in the air defense of the country, the largest of which is between Khabarovsk and Irkutsk - 3400 km. Not covered the most important economic centers of the country: Perm, Izhevsk, Vladimir, Nizhny Novgorod, Omsk, Chelyabinsk, Tula, Ulyanovsk.


Even some divisions of the Strategic Missile Forces are not protected from air strikes. The Russian Navy is also in an extremely deplorable state. By 2015, approximately 60 submarines and ships of the first and second rank will remain in its structure. All these models are outdated samples.

Similar figures and facts can be listed further, but it is almost impossible to do it here and now. Therefore, it is quite enough to mark only some tendencies, to name individual results with which the Defense Ministry in its, I hope, already “irrevocable” composition came up to the sad - for the country! - final-2012. Although, according to the former Chief of the General Staff Nikolai Makarov, the main large-scale measures to form the perspective image of the new Russian army were held in 2009-2010. As a result, allegedly, the Armed Forces of the new look were created with the share of junior officers in the total number of officer personnel 68 percent. The number of officers was reduced from 350 000 to 220 000 people. And the ensigns and midshipmen were worn out altogether.

Yesterday’s statement by Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu about the return of "those officers who were the color of science, the color of military education" is also understandable. This decision sees the desire to at least to some extent correct those blunders that were made by the previous leadership of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

But although it will be necessary to carefully calculate how many such mistakes were made in the recent past, it is already extremely clear that, in conducting military reform, the leadership of the Defense Ministry largely copied the American experience (forms and methods of military operations, regulations and manuals, the percentage of officers in numbers Armed forces, etc.). The experience of military campaigns of multinational forces led by the United States in Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and finally in Libya is often cited. It is argued that the Russian Armed Forces should fight in the same way, conduct maneuvering actions in broad bands, avoid direct clashes with the enemy, bypass and block his pockets of resistance. But is it possible to compare the military potentials of the United States, the coalitions of NATO countries and countries that have undergone their aggression in the late 20th and early 21st century?

Russian military science, analyzing the experience of these wars, considered such methods of action promising and made conclusions and suggestions on the direction in which the means of warfare and troop control systems should be developed in the Russian Armed Forces. The only question is how much it costs for the state and whether our military-industrial complex will provide for the development and creation of modern and advanced weapons. It should be noted that the tasks of the US armed forces and our army do not radically coincide. For decades, the United States and its NATO allies have led offensive military operations outside their territory, always have the initiative to start a war, and are at war with a weak adversary. Therefore, their experience is atypical for us. First of all, we need to ensure the protection of our territory and therefore at the beginning of the war we will have to conduct defensive actions against a stronger, fundamentally different enemy in each theater of military operations.

If you carefully analyze the military threats to Russia, it is clear that the most difficult situation is in the West and the Far East.


In the West, for example, innovative armies with non-contact forms and methods of using the latest forces and means. Due to the pacifism that struck Europe, the likelihood of a collision with NATO is small. But the threat is not the statements of politicians, but the power of the groups deployed in Europe, which, if necessary, can be strengthened. So, in the CFE zone (on the European continent), the North Atlantic Alliance has 24 divisions and 254 brigades. As of January 1, 2011, there were 22 troops in the forces of 11 NATO states in Europe tank, 22 armored fighting vehicles, 788 artillery systems, 13 aircraft and 264 helicopters. This group can be strengthened by US forces. In the means of ensuring combat operations (control, communications, reconnaissance, navigation, electronic warfare), the advantage of the NATO armed forces over the Russian armed forces is much higher than in people and equipment. Their overall superiority is such that we should not even talk about times, but about orders of magnitude.

Russia on 1 January 2011 had 3660 tanks, 7690 BBM, 4634 artillery systems, 1542 aircraft and 365 helicopters here. Given this, there is no need for special evidence that the Western Military District in its current composition is not able to repel the blow of the opposing grouping. But in the West, greater danger than groupings of troops and forces, are constantly growing opportunities to conduct information war. Developing high-speed information technologies already allow the US armed forces to master the techniques and methods of such a war.

Let's add the following detail: in the United States, a special unit has been created for force neutralization around the world news The media by disrupting their technical infrastructure.


However, “Conceptual views on the activities of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation in the information space” published on the website of the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation do not give an answer to the question of how to counteract the information war, what means and methods to use to conduct information confrontation. Unfortunately, today there are no tasks or corresponding scientific structures for the study of this important area.

In the East, two military districts (Shenyansky and Beijing) of the seven existing in the PRC are stronger than all the Land Forces of the Russian Federation combined. And considering that there are no more than one-third of the combined-arms units in the Eastern Military District, this superiority is even higher. China over the past 20 of years has bought fighter jets Su-27, Su-30, ZRKT Thor, ZRS-300 and other types of weapons and equipment in Russia, copied everything without a license and produced in large batches without selling anything abroad. And, apparently, it is far from coincidental that in Soviet times the largest grouping of troops (Far Eastern Military District, Pacific Fleet, ZabVO, etc.) was located in this theater with many parts of constant readiness in it, and it was supervised by the Headquarters of the Far East. It is surprising that even this historical example is clearly ignored by modern reformers.

“In the 29 Army, which now occupies the building of the former headquarters of the Siberian Military District in Chita, there is only one brigade in the territory from Ulan-Ude to Belogorsk - which is about three thousand kilometers of the state border,” says Lieutenant-General V. Sobolev. “In the event of an armed conflict with China, the Chinese will find it very difficult to find it in order to capture or destroy ... It’s not funny.”

By the way, given today's realities with military transport aviation and the presence of rolling stock (railway platforms) at Russian Railways, regrouping of troops is a very big problem. According to the experience of the exercises "West-2009", the redeployment of one team to the territory of Belarus at a distance of up to 1000 kilometers took five days. Calculations show that in the Far East (from Moscow to Vladivostok 9228 km) the transportation of one brigade along the Trans-Siberian Railway can take up to 2,5 months, and taking into account possible sabotage actions of a likely enemy, the normal functioning of this railway will be disrupted even before the outbreak of hostilities. What kind of troop mobility can we talk about today?

Vladimir Putin’s concern was quite understandable when, in an article published in Rossiyskaya Gazeta at the end of February, he noted that the main task of military reform, which has been carried out in Russia since the middle of 2000, is to create a “modern type army - mobile in a state of constant combat readiness. ”However, speaking about the specific goals and objectives of the reform, as well as discussing the priorities in creating weapons and military equipment, Putin stressed that until the main guidelines are developed, the only weapon, the development of which will be more or less calculated, will remain nuclear. “Our specialists will have to define a promising ideology for the development of types and types of troops, clearly identify their goals and objectives in the relevant conceptual documents. But it is already clear that the role and significance of the nuclear deterrent forces will remain in the structure of the Armed Forces. ”

It is the nuclear deterrence forces that are currently our main “answer to Chamberlain”.


So, in the current state, the share of strategic nuclear forces in government defense orders is 25%. On the basis of the 2009 year, Russia had 3909 warheads on 814 strategic carriers, and the US had 5576 warheads on 1198 carriers. And how many they need to have to maintain parity? Who counted?

Or here's another question: Does Russia need atomic aircraft carriers, Mistral helicopter carriers, and for what tasks? If for conducting military operations in areas remote from Russia, to combat piracy, then this is understandable. And what should these means do when defending their territory? Yes, and they can not be used independently, but only as a part of the shock group. They need an escort, security ships and support vessels.

The creation of the Aerospace Defense Forces was in fact the arithmetical composition of the Space Forces and the USC ESC (the former Moscow Military District Air Defense) and the prospects for their further construction and development are unclear. There is no clear decision on the forces of the fleets, the preparation of the infrastructure for their deployment. The question is: does the Ministry of Defense have at least one scientifically based decision, a scientifically based figure?

Judge for yourself whether or not this: speaking at the Academy of Military Sciences, Chief of the General Staff Nikolai Makarov said bluntly that “we got involved in military reform without having any scientific justification. Everything was done hastily, often - by people who do not really understand the problem, with an eye on momentary problem solving. ” This is how a former member of the Russian Defense Ministry board and head of the Main Directorate of International Military Cooperation of the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation, Colonel-General Leonid Ivashov (the Free Press publication), later commented on the situation with the Armed Forces:

“Today there is no atlas of threats, and the troops are supposedly ready to repel them. Threats are not indicated in military doctrine or in other documents. But if so, then the question arises: “What are the forces and forces of the fleet ready for?”

... if you look at the composition of the Armed Forces, then our current brigade-type troops are not able to withstand the likely adversary neither in the West, nor in the South, nor in the East. And they are absolutely not ready to defend our interests in the Arctic, where today a new theater of military operations is being formed in the struggle for resources.

... when the military prosecutor says that as a result of these reforms, every fifth budget ruble entering the defense ministry is being stolen, it becomes scary.

... the concept of a rapid global strike (a promising development of the US armed forces, which should allow them to strike with non-nuclear weapons on any part of the planet within an hour - approx. "SP"), which fit on us? Is it not a threat? It was introduced by Bush Jr. in 2003 year.

In addition, we have no serious military allies today. From a military-strategic point of view, we do not know who is closer to us: China, India or the NATO bloc?

Therefore, there is a constant flirting with the West, absurd statements and decisions. As a result, we have no serious allies left. That is, we did not build the necessary balance of power. Because of all this, I definitely assess the results of the reform negatively. ”

From myself I will add: as regards military science, at the present time it actually does not exist. Military reform was carried out contrary to the recommendations of military scientists, these recommendations were simply discarded as useless.

Not so long ago, Lieutenant-General Vladimir Slipchenko, Doctor of Military Sciences, Professor, full member of the Academy of Military Sciences of the Russian Federation, said: “One can only say that the Armed Forces for each state will cost as much as this state evaluates its sovereignty.”


It seems to me that it is from these positions that, first of all, it is necessary to approach the assessment of everything that is connected today with the activities of the Ministry of Defense and its former leader. Yes, of course, it is important and even more interesting to what extent the result is assessed by the damage that was inflicted on the state by some officials of the Ministry of Defense. And more importantly, will the funds obtained by dishonest means be returned to the state budget? But, I am sure, the disclosure of possible crimes in the military sphere is not a matter of the first degree of importance. The main thing is to bring the combat capability and combat readiness of the Armed Forces as quickly as possible to the desired level.

Many probably saw in the old films, as on the eve of the Great Patriotic War in the USSR, the song “If tomorrow is war, if tomorrow is a campaign ...” sounded. Most of the Soviet people were sure then that they could throw a hat on any enemy, and then finish it off. territory. And in 1941, a tragedy happened to our country. Now the situation with the state of national defense is very similar. And what will we do if war really happens tomorrow? Who will we blame? "Marrying traffic"?
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154 comments
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  1. bask
    bask 14 December 2012 07: 42
    +7
    If tomorrow is war ???? Khryunovo. Modern armored vehicles in all branches of the armed forces 000000000000000000. New models of aviation and naval forces, in units at best in dozens of units. But the most crappy thing is that this tolera Serdyuk..Dispersed ALL THE COLOR OF THE OFFICE CASE ..... All hope, as always, on nuclear weapons ....
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim 14 December 2012 08: 04
      0
      Quote: bask
      All hope, as always, on nuclear weapons ....

      And also weapons on new physical principles! soldier
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 14 December 2012 09: 16
        +4
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        And also weapons on new physical principles!

        Yeah, and also laser rifles and plasma pistols. Well in the picture, it’s only a pity that life is different request
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 14 December 2012 12: 13
          +2
          And why then are they planning to build new arsenals? Blasters and lightsabers are apparently nowhere to be stored ...
          1. crazyrom
            crazyrom 15 December 2012 01: 54
            0
            How much can you already discuss the cursed Serdyuk? It has long been necessary to work on fresh air in Siberia, and everyone is discussing whether it was effective ...
      2. Botanologist
        Botanologist 14 December 2012 22: 06
        0
        The physical principle is not at all new - a gun in the hands and to the front. What else remains? Anyway, you need to protect your homeland.
    2. sergey32
      sergey32 14 December 2012 08: 23
      +6
      If war is tomorrow, you have to get the saiga and go to the partisans. And what else did our two sovereigns (M. and P.) leave with us along with the Stool?
      1. Blackscorp
        Blackscorp 14 December 2012 08: 53
        +12
        Article "+"

        And in 1941, tragedy happened with our country. Now the situation with the state of national defense is very similar.
        I think the current state of national defense is much worse than in 1941 ...
        We need a decision to reorient the military-industrial complex to our own needs ..... export will wait!
        1. Pharao7766
          Pharao7766 14 December 2012 10: 02
          +6
          Hmm ... how bitter the truth is ...
          And what a pity that we are not 1937 anyway !!!
          1. Beck
            Beck 14 December 2012 13: 14
            -2
            Quote: Pharao7766
            Hmm ... how bitter the truth is ... And what a pity that we have all the same not 1937 !!!


            What do you want to apply the methods of 1937? What do you want to repress 40 thousand from today's Russian officers? Well, in this case, no enemy of Russia is terrible. Since this enemy has no one to fight with. You can start the campaign.
            1. beech
              beech 14 December 2012 15: 29
              +5
              officers without us have already been dispersed, but cleaning in the Kremlin is worth making !!!
              In our country, it’s always like this: for a stolen loaf of bread they will be sent to prison, and for the fact that the state’s minister from the Ministry of Defense, the Slavs and God knows how many organizations the heap of dough whistled — they will be given maximum symbolic terms !!!!
              If there were Stalin ... there would be no problems !!! What a pity that the USSR collapsed !!
              1. Beck
                Beck 14 December 2012 19: 26
                -2
                Quote: beech
                If there were Stalin ... there would be no problems !!! What a pity that the USSR collapsed !!


                Yes. Miss you Give Stalin.

                Theoretically, it is always so. The people demanding order in any way, and first of all, the order induced by a firm hand, always receive this order. In the form of Hitler, Stalin, Franco, Mussolini, Pol-Pot, etc.

                Only then, according to the law of tyranny, those who called first and suffer. In concentration camps, in repression, in prisons. And they are the first to be destroyed in mass executions, in crematoria.

                Here are some sympathies for Stalin? Which, with its policies, almost put Russia in a state of non-existence. And only the Russian people with their blood and the lives of millions gave Russia the future.

                This is how a sweet little cuckoo of a communist nest can be, throwing other comrade chicks out of the nest (that’s where they belong) and establishing the tyranny of their ideological parents in Russia. That ideology, the first adherent of which was Stalin himself, which led Russia to defeat in WW1. That ideology that stopped the primacy of Russia in world economic development. That ideology that almost brought to the root of the most industrious farmers (kulaks). That ideology that pervaded the Russian land with a stream of innocent blood. That ideology that tried to make a voiceless herd of the Russian people. The ideology that established the non-viable economic system, which led to stagnation and collapse (USSR).

                Yeah. Short memory. Again there is a desire with a lowing ox to yoke, to bondage, to tyranny. Then to look with crazy eyes at a knife cutting the throat.

                As they say. There would be a desire, but there will always be a dictator. As soon as the percentage of those wishing to overcome some kind of figure - Damn and show up.
                1. beech
                  beech 14 December 2012 21: 13
                  +5
                  Here are some sympathies for Stalin?
                  - This great man in 5 years raised the country after the war from the wreckage to the pre-war level !!! And our rulers have been trying to raise them for 20 years, but it turns out just to steal !!!!
                  And as for the repression ... they were forced ... then not all whites were finished off !!
                  Our country has never been and will not be strong as in the days of the USSR !!! Take a look around, almost everything that you see was built in the USSR ... they’ve been sawing the army for 20 years ... they can’t cut it to the end !!!
                  And do not compare Stalin with Hitler and others ... you scold communism, would you like to live with the king ??? Under communism, there was free education, free medicine ... yes, we lived a little worse, but we were confident in the future and knew that our army would fight back anyone !!!!
                  And people like you back, how were you .. ungrateful and remained them !!!
                  1. Beck
                    Beck 14 December 2012 22: 09
                    -5
                    Quote: beech
                    This great man in 5 years raised the country after the war from the wreckage to the pre-war level !!!


                    And who brought with his shortsighted policies, the Ribbetrop-Molotov Pact, the training of German pilots, the supply of raw materials to German industry, before the war, He brought it to this very war.

                    Quote: beech
                    And as for the repression ... they were forced ... then not all whites were finished off !!


                    Which whites? Are the housekeepers (fists) white? Is the color of the Russian intelligentsia white? Is Izhevsk's workers white? Are the peasants of Tambov white? Is science led by Vavilov white? The famine of 30 years is white? All together, all the Russian people are white.

                    Quote: beech
                    Under communism, there was free education, free medicine ... yes, we lived a little worse, but we were confident in the future


                    Why was it free? Because the workers were not paid the money so that he himself could pay for everything. Therefore, they were forced to do free medicine. Did you live then? You know what is overalls - a mixture of animal fat with technical oils 50x50. You know what is wallpaper bread it is sex bread, it cost 14 kopecks. Do you know the long lines for one kilogram of rice? And people were sure that tomorrow will also be and there will be nothing better.

                    Quote: beech
                    And do not compare Stalin with Hitler and others ... you scold communism, would you like to live with the king ???


                    What was the difference between Stalin and Hitler. Both were maniacs of unlimited power. Both preached a system of views of absolutism and dictatorship. Both killed in unlimited numbers of people. Under the king, I would not want to live. But if not for the Bolsheviks, Russia would become a constitutional monarchy and would not fall into the abyss of civil war.

                    Quote: beech
                    And people like you back, how were you .. ungrateful and remained them !!!


                    Now you called me. What is this talking about. It only says that you have no arguments, erudition, education to lead any kind of debate. Rudeness, insults and rudeness is the only argument of narrow-minded people. In addition, you are short-sighted and considering your insults by nationality, you are still a chauvinist of the last test. And the street chauvinist, at a level below the Pitencanthropus. You will not even be able to talk about Russian history with me, not to mention the other university. Go to your den to gnaw at the bone of millennial primitivism.
                    1. beech
                      beech 15 December 2012 20: 14
                      +3
                      there are no arguments.
                      - I’m ready to argue even before losing my pulse; sorry, I could not resist for insulting me.
                      Russia and Germany were pushed against each other by the arrogant Saxons. They didn’t pay, they didn’t pay, they paid everyone, maybe a little, but enough. It’s better than now, someone is raking millions, and someone is a penny. You don’t have to listen to everything on TV what the doctors say and the teachers get 20 mowers .... 5 pieces !!! Believe me, my mother is a doctor, and my grandmother is a teacher.
                      As for repressions ... I repeat, they were forced ... there were remnants of white ... undead Makhnovists, etc. ... dispossessed their fists .. and rightly so ... what they took and sold from them went to purchase industrial machines ... industrial development. . Why didn’t the USSR please you that you hate it like a fat? Like to live in our today's, so to speak, new Russia ?? In which salaries are not better than they were in the USSR, in which paid medicine and education, the prevalence of arbitrariness, a sawn army, industry .... !!
                      1. Beck
                        Beck 15 December 2012 21: 21
                        -1
                        Quote: beech
                        Russia and Germany pushed against each other


                        Well, I don’t think so. The main reason, in my opinion, is Hitler's insidiousness. Hitler and Stalin signed the Ribentrop and Molotov pact. They divided the spheres of influence in Eastern Europe. This secured itself - Germany from the East, the USSR from the West. Thanks to this treaty, Hitler defeated France and England without turning east. He wanted to finish off England by landing, but before that he wanted to defeat the infrastructure of England with aviation. But England survived in an air battle in 1940. And here Hitler made a strategic mistake by attacking the USSR. That is, he acted treacherously.

                        I am not against the USSR as a territorial entity. If there had been no revolution, then this entity would be called Russia within the empire. I am against the power of the Communists in the USSR. For me, the power of the constitutional monarchy of Russia would be better. Where the king would have been at the level of the Queen of England, and would have parliament in all affairs, the Duma.

                        Russia and Kazakhstan rise from the collapse where the Communists took them. And 20 years of building a new one is not a deadline. But even if you compare it, it will not be good for the USSR. Shelves of shops and bazaars are something. If such regiments suddenly appeared in 1980, someone could have been enough. People are now going abroad to rest and not only the rich. They can buy though supported Audi. And they are not a couple of Lada 09.
                      2. beech
                        beech 16 December 2012 11: 57
                        +2
                        if there is time and desire I advise you to watch the whole movie, called a big game. As for who dragged Russia into the World War — there are behind-the-scenes games of countries, but I will remain of my opinion, since Hitler was far from a fool and understood that fighting on 2 fronts is suicide, the Molotov-rebentropp pact is confirmation of this, England was waiting for the priest, therefore she pushed us with the Germans.
                        from that collapse where did the communists lead them .- From what collapse ?? They built everything from scratch, learned everything ... the USSR did not behave like America with the Indians — your culture is preserved, you are all alive !! And that chaos began during the agony of the USSR and continued in the 90s, you know, that chaos was happening all over the country !!!!
            2. Botanologist
              Botanologist 14 December 2012 22: 19
              +3
              What do you want to repress thousands of today's Russian 40 officers from?
              Yes, actually, under liberals, they repressed more. Well, they didn’t shoot, of course, but they reduced it to the baseboard. And threw out of service in the private security companies. So don't be scared, scared already.
              1. Beck
                Beck 14 December 2012 22: 35
                -1
                I spoke not about past, but about current officers. Which are now in the service.
          2. Bekzat
            Bekzat 14 December 2012 16: 55
            +4
            For Maxim, sometimes I also regret this, that we have not 37 year, in continuation to you.
        2. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 14 December 2012 11: 23
          0
          Is there economists? Is it possible to reorient the economy to meet the needs of the Russian army?
          1. vadimN
            vadimN 14 December 2012 13: 10
            +10
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            ? Is it possible to reorient the economy to meet the needs of the Russian army?


            Of course, it is possible! And the point is not so much in the financial capabilities of the country as in the political will of the leadership. There is official evidence of capital outflows from Russia to the West. Speaking directly, this is money stolen by the oligarchy from the country in the form of unpaid taxes (hidden in offshore), dividends paid to foreign owners of Russian companies, etc. Even if half of this amount can be left in the country, then within two to four years it will solve most of the problems that have accumulated in the armed forces.
            To do this, you need to change the law so that it works for the country, not for the oligarchs. For example, to:
            - a controlling stake in enterprises necessarily belonged to the Russian side,
            - tax transactions through offshore companies additional separate tax (which will destroy the interest of the business to hide profits in offshore).
            ...etc.
            But all this requires the political will of the country's leadership, but it does not ..., or it exists only in words.
            1. Bronis
              Bronis 14 December 2012 14: 07
              +4
              Namely, I fully and fully support it.
              It sounds hackneyed, but still, Abramovich's largest yacht is worth over a billion dollars. These are about 25-30 Su-34s or more than 200 domestic MBTs, or 1 Borey with a quay wall, or several frigates (2-3 units). And Roma has 3 more yachts. and a couple of planes for 250 million dollars. They are cheaper, but also quite ... For the complete rearmament of the Baltic Fleet the money spent on its toys is not enough. But if you add one more oligarch of the same kind - yes. Now let's estimate how many of them we have ... and no additional financial burden on the economy. On the contrary, money will remain inside the country.
              Only now it is impossible to do so, even if there is a desire. And the legislation will not be changed. Too many interests will be hurt - this will lead to direct confrontation and war in the elite. It could even get worse ...
              So it’s easier due to the rest of the population. And I, unfortunately, do not see a simple way out. At least in the current political realities.
            2. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt 14 December 2012 15: 04
              +1
              Quote: vadimN
              Of course, it is possible! And the point is not so much in the financial capabilities of the country as in the political will of the leadership.

              good Here, Vadim! And now you quote me word for word. In previous articles I talked about this more than once. What topic would not be discussed, but everything will go off track. There and then we’ll get stuck. Only who will accept such good laws for us? the owners of offshore companies, factories, newspapers, ships? .... It remains to hope for a miracle. hi
            3. Botanologist
              Botanologist 14 December 2012 22: 16
              0
              Even if half of this amount can be left in the country

              Not there, dear, look. What do you want to feed officials more than stolen billions? I don’t. Or do you think that little money was invested in American stocks through a reserve fund?
              Fantastic money allocated for rearmament. If they simply are not allowed to be stolen, but put into action, everything will be in order with the army.
              If you do not let the money of road funds be stolen, our road network will grow very rapidly, and not crumble every spring.
              Well, if we set aside a reserve fund for infrastructure and industry - in general, everything will be fine with us.
              Unless, of course, as always, do not drink ... ... children.
          2. robinson
            robinson 14 December 2012 14: 07
            +1
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            Is there economists? Is it possible to reorient the economy to meet the needs of the Russian army?

            Liberal capitalism, which we have today, in principle, is not intended for "reorientation", like it regulates itself. The bottom line is that both Roosevelt and Churchill during difficult and war times did about the same thing as Stalin, labor armies, deferred demand, and so on. In principle, everything is known and understandable, will hamsters simply live without new iPhones? That's the question.
        3. mamba
          mamba 14 December 2012 14: 18
          +3
          Quote: BlackScorp
          I think the current state of national defense is much worse than in 1941 ...

          Yes, then we were not inferior to the Germans in either quantity or quality of military equipment. And the catastrophe occurred due to the incompetent leadership of the army at all levels and the low professionalism of both ordinary and officer personnel.
          And now, the overwhelming advantage of potential opponents in all types of weapons, the strength of the troops, and the quantity and quality of communications equipment has been added to all this. Russia is weak as never before. It’s even scary ... am
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 14 December 2012 15: 29
            0
            Then in 41 we were inferior to the Third Reich and quantitatively and qualitatively, mediocre leadership was enough in the Reich. No need to believe American propaganda.
        4. Bekzat
          Bekzat 14 December 2012 16: 53
          +3
          I greet everyone, for Konstantin, you are right, in some ways, there are similarities, but at that time Stalin raised the Army and Navy, and the reform was aimed at strengthening the Army and Navy, and now, it’s stupidly for collapse.
      2. Ross
        Ross 14 December 2012 11: 36
        +9
        sergey32,
        Blaming Taburetkin, I don’t understand one thing: why is Makarov aloof? It seems to be rumored to have secretly received the Hero of Russia star for the reform? Okay Taburetkin, civilian. And why the head of the General Staff aside? Or is it nothing to do with it?
        1. the polar
          the polar 14 December 2012 15: 44
          +6
          The State Department has applied for an award. Therefore, secretly
      3. Paratov
        Paratov 14 December 2012 12: 47
        +5
        Quote: sergey32
        If war is tomorrow, you have to get the saiga and go to the partisans

        These figures hardly have a guerrilla war plan ....
        So you have to rely only on your own strength!
        1. the polar
          the polar 14 December 2012 15: 47
          +4
          We must study the Afghan experience of the Taliban, taking into account Russian specifics. After the current army reforms, in the impending war only partisan resistance will remain hope for Russia
      4. bask
        bask 14 December 2012 13: 33
        +3
        Quote: sergey32
        If war is tomorrow, you have to get the saiga and go to the partisans

        But who’s to blame is understandable. But question number 2 What to do in the Moscow Region and personally Shoigu. Now until 15-20 years. Years of rearmament (((we hope (((I must start, the program in the military-industrial complex. On the modernization of obsolete armored vehicles. Not just painting and repair. And 1 ... replacing all MTOs with modern ones. 2 ... enhancing the reservation with strengthening the transmission and increasing payload. 3 ... the armament and electronic filling of A. Corps will still serve ...
        1. Churchill
          Churchill 14 December 2012 20: 23
          +4
          Quote: bask
          Now until 15-20 years. Years of rearmament (((hope (((

          If they give us so much time for rearmament! And if not?..
      5. brutal true
        brutal true 14 December 2012 16: 38
        0
        Well, everything in the article is clear: all that is bad in the army, of course, is Serdyukov, and what is good is, of course, our generals. And corruption before Serdyukov was not in the army, but how Serdyukov came like this: “The scale of corruption and theft in the Ministry of Defense under the Minister Anatoly Serdyukov is amazing.” Well funny to read. I even guess who piled this article. Here I am in Arimia, near Nizhny Tagil, for a year and a half I dug up copper cables, and whoever was with a construction specialty did not appear for weeks in part. In the army was - power! I wanted to cry. And at least henna, no one yelled about the collapse. angry And Che, everyone did know about it and not a single jackal submitted a report and did not write a statement to the prosecutor's office. Everything is sewn indoor. And then they were all offended by the stool. They began to disperse the rage with pissed rags, and a howl rose. Yes, he was ruining the army, but such an army, which was in the 90-2000s, is not needed. Now, if Serdyukov is clothed in a military uniform, since once you get a caricature image of a thieving thick-footed general, everything converges. So the military stool got you the stool lol Sorry for the directness. I'm not saying that our fighters learn about their combat readiness from the reports of NATO analysts, this is ridiculous.
    3. robinson
      robinson 14 December 2012 10: 17
      +10
      Quote: bask
      THE WHOLE COLOR OF THE OFFICER HOUSING ..... All hope as always

      If war is tomorrow, the color will return, and even forty-year-old men who know what to do from both ends of the barrel, who themselves will come to the military registration and enlistment office for cartridges, I think I’ll get it all with lam. There is no reason to hope for anything else. But nuclear weapons, well, no one will get on us without receiving guarantees of non-use, but if they get ... The point then is about the Defense Ministry and generally about the government? The guys themselves, all by themselves.
      1. Paratov
        Paratov 14 December 2012 12: 49
        +6
        Quote: robinson
        The guys themselves, all by themselves.

        Eh, let’s pause for the last time! .. drinks
      2. ole
        ole 14 December 2012 13: 25
        -2
        Quote: robinson
        If war is tomorrow, the color will return, and even forty-year-old men who know what to do from both ends of the barrel, who themselves will come to the military registration and enlistment office for cartridges,

        And for whom to fight, for the oligarchs, local regional princes and merchants, who now treat you like the last cattle, only for their family if they touch, but untouched Russia, and so it turns into a farce of regional conglomerates that destroy the titular Russian nation.
        1. Diesel
          Diesel 14 December 2012 13: 48
          +5
          Quote: ole
          for oligarchs, local regional princes and merchants


          At that time, they will all disappear from the country, if they do not disappear, we will take all the money for tanks, and let’s throw some ordinary people in the trench
          1. Churchill
            Churchill 14 December 2012 20: 27
            +4
            Quote: Diesel
            At that moment they all disappear from the country,

            They will not disappear! They will organizedly leave for evacuation ... to Mauritius.
            And when the threat subsides, they will dignifiedly return to restore the destroyed "national" economy! yes
        2. Ahmar
          Ahmar 14 December 2012 14: 01
          +6
          ole,
          you must fight for the country and the Fatherland - this = family because there will be no country, your children will have nowhere to live! If they conquer, they will either destroy them or, if they survive, they will be slaves in brothels in Albania, the EU and others like them
          1. slas
            slas 14 December 2012 14: 32
            +1
            Quote: Ahmar
            you must fight for the country and the Fatherland - this = family because there will be no country, your children will have nowhere to live

            + I agree And when we recapture, we’ll come to the oligarchs to get some fun angry
          2. ole
            ole 15 December 2012 01: 28
            +1
            We are already in slavery housing loan for 30 years, pay education, pay medicine, while we breathe for free, but this is temporary.
        3. robinson
          robinson 14 December 2012 14: 24
          0
          Quote: ole
          And for whom to fight, for the oligarchs, local regional princes and merchants, who now treat you like the last cattle, only for their family if they touch, but untouched Russia, and so it turns into a farce of regional conglomerates that destroy the titular Russian nation.

          Well Duc, damn it if we start, what will prevent us from "missing" several times? This is in the sense of getting, well, there are some. AND?
          Rosebaym has a word - "if he knew, if he was leading those who had already passed us, I would never give my AKM to anyone".
          PS: agreeing with Rosenbaum, I emphasize my non-titular face which is here on an equal footing with everyone.
          1. ole
            ole 15 December 2012 13: 56
            +1
            Quote: robinson
            I emphasize my not titular face which is here on an equal footing with everyone.

            I am not opposed to your national ethnic group, the relatives of the Tatars, Bashkirs, friends of the Dagestanis and Circassians, I am against the bestial attitude towards the Russians (look now only the lazy one does not talk about Russian jacks, dumbasses, idlers).

            Quote: robinson
            I emphasize my not titular face which is here on an equal footing with everyone.

            I am not opposed to your ethnic group or some other, relatives of the Tatars, Bashkirs, friends of the Dagestanis and Circassians, I am against the bestial attitude towards the Russians.

            Quote: robinson
            I emphasize my not titular face which is here on an equal footing with everyone.

            I am not opposed to your ethnic group or some other, relatives of the Tatars, Bashkirs, friends of the Dagestanis and Circassians, I am against the bestial attitude towards the Russians.
        4. Botanologist
          Botanologist 14 December 2012 22: 22
          +3
          And for whom to fight

          For the country. For his children. For the truth.
    4. His
      His 14 December 2012 16: 39
      0
      Alarmist article. Why did we then win Georgia in 5 days? Two Chechen companies are worth what. We will always win. And there will never be a contactless war with Russia. Soak both the hobits and all the Islamic scum and then score a stake over the phishington
      1. Mihaylo Tishayshiy
        Mihaylo Tishayshiy 14 December 2012 23: 52
        +1
        The other day we discussed the article "The Russian National Guard and the" Syrian Variant of Invasion ": Our Army Tomorrow" by Alexander Gorbenko. It states, I quote:
        And a long-term forecast of the foreign policy situation, and an assessment of the nature of external threats, and a miscalculation of scenarios of probable conflicts, and even the identification of a potential adversary - have been made and are used as the basis for military organizational development. And this work was carried out not by "effective managers" at all, but by domestic military science, which has colossal experience and its own school and has proven its superiority over foreign ones not only on the pages of theoretical works, but also on the battlefields. For example, a significant contribution to the idea of ​​the new look of the Armed Forces was made by the work of ... the Military Academy of the General Staff.
        In the same article by Valery Panov, the exact opposite is stated - there is no clear concept, no understanding, no scientific justification for ongoing reforms, etc.
        Obviously, one of them is lying !!! But I have been wondering for a long time - the army of the "old construction", even drained of blood by the post-perestroika period, managed to cope with the war in Chechnya and the conflict with Georgia (ie, with the new realities). And here is how the reformed (in my opinion - scanty) army will cope with the realities that will arise in ten years. Indeed, in the late 80s, no military science could imagine that in ten years NATO would bomb Belgrade. No wonder they say that generals are always preparing for the last war. I agree with many of the provisions in the article, because in the matter of the country's defense capability, it is better to "overdo it than not do it!"
  2. Vanek
    Vanek 14 December 2012 07: 52
    +3
    all "Stormy" activities Ministry of Defense led by Anatoly Serdyukov.

    IDB !!!

    Simulation of Stormy Activity.

    Hello to everyone. hi
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 14 December 2012 09: 20
      +2
      Quote: Vanek
      led by Anatoly Serdyukov.

      Ivan, it’s so easy to get rid of this surname, here’s the news belay .........................................
      ofizer.ru - In the near future, Colonel General Vladimir Shamanov, commander of the Airborne Forces of Russia, is expected to be replaced by Major General Andrei Serdyukov, a source in the military department said on Wednesday ....
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 14 December 2012 11: 29
        0
        Yesterday, a little kondrat didn’t have enough when I read it. Then, more closely: Andrey ..
    2. Kaa
      Kaa 14 December 2012 11: 45
      +2
      Quote: Vanek
      IDB !!!
      Simulation of Stormy Activity.

      EPRST! If you Cancer ..m Serdyukov-Taburetkina am
  3. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 14 December 2012 08: 02
    +14
    gross errors that were made by the previous leadership of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

    These are not mistakes, this is- BETRAYAL!
    1. Orik
      Orik 14 December 2012 08: 31
      0
      True, only a stool statistician. wink
    2. alexng
      alexng 14 December 2012 08: 36
      +4
      Serduchka should not be judged, but given up to be torn apart by the military, let him feel the "love" of the people for him on his own skin. These geeks do not understand otherwise that they are traitors to their homeland.
      1. vadimN
        vadimN 14 December 2012 13: 14
        +2
        Quote: alexneg
        Serduchka should not be judged, but given to the military


        And it would be nice to get explanations from those who put him in this important post and for so many years protected him from criticism, and even after his resignation defended (and defends) and called him an "effective minister" ...
    3. Kaa
      Kaa 14 December 2012 11: 49
      +6
      Quote: lewerlin53rus
      This is a betrayal!

      There is a good and necessary article in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation "Article 275. High treason
      [Criminal Code of the Russian Federation] [Chapter 29] [Article 275]
      High treason, i.e. espionage, the issuance of state secrets or other assistance to a foreign state, a foreign organization or their representatives in carrying out hostile activities to the detriment of the external security of the Russian Federation, committed by a citizen of the Russian Federation, - shall be punishable by imprisonment for a term of twelve to twenty years, with a fine in the amount of up to five hundred thousand rubles, or in the amount of the wage or salary, or any other income of the convicted person for a period of up to three years, or without such imprisonment, and with restraint of liberty for a term of up to two years. "
  4. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 14 December 2012 08: 02
    +17
    Sober comment. And what kind of army reform could girls and dogs do? The worst thing is that the problems of the Ministry of Defense concern ultimately every resident of the country.
    1. Beck
      Beck 14 December 2012 13: 33
      0
      I’ve been talking for a long time. Everything flows, everything changes. Spoke and speak. Today and especially in the future, the main adversary is not Europe, this is China.

      Europe did not want and does not want to fight. All of its weapons and Russia's opposing weapons are the consequences of the Cold War and the communist threat. Moreover, one can always come to an agreement with an adequate Europe, find a common language. It is more difficult with China, especially in ten years, when China will become the world economic leader. Then China will have global claims, some of which will spread to the Far East. In addition, the Kremlin, in pursuit of momentary profits, has created a modern aviation industry for China.

      Therefore, it’s enough to spit on the West, it is necessary to transfer politics and the core of military efforts to the Far East. Dislocate the main troops and equipment (except nuclear weapons, it will reach any point from any point) to the Far East. There, the center of the future development of the world. And there will be the main inconsistencies of the contradictions of different interests, different countries.
      1. Mihaylo Tishayshiy
        Mihaylo Tishayshiy 14 December 2012 15: 59
        +6
        Quote: Beck
        In addition, an adequate Europe can always be agreed to find a common language.

        Milosevic, Hussein and Gaddafi have already agreed, now Assad will find a common language, followed by Ahmadinejad, and then Putin’s (our) turn. As for China, I agree, but it’s too early to write off Europe.
        1. Beck
          Beck 14 December 2012 18: 12
          -11
          Quote: Mihaylo Tishayshiy
          Milosevic, Hussein and Gaddafi have already agreed, now Assad will find a common language, followed by Ahmadinejad


          All of you listed, they that wanted peace?

          Milosevic He wanted to preserve Yugoslavia by military force. That is, he did not want to give the Croats, Bosnians, Macedonians the freedom and sovereignty of their states. Well, they didn’t want them, they are under the power of Belgrade. It is the same that Russia in 1480 did not want to remain under the rule of the Golden Horde. What now blaspheme Ivan 3 and exalt Khan Akhmat. Milosevic was repeatedly invited by Europe to stop the bloodshed and give freedom to other Slavic peoples, but he continued the bloodshed. Therefore, NATO forced Milosevic to do this by force. What is so bad now that apart from Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia and Bosnia exist.
          Hussein and Gaddafi were illegal at its core. They seized power by military coups, became bloody dictators shooting at their own people, bombing, poisoning OM (Hussein). The West helped the people of Iraq and Libya get rid of tyrants. What is this bad. Just as the USSR helped Europe get rid of Hitler's tyrant. Or Hitler just had to be driven out of the country and calm down. Assad the same dictator as Hussein and Gaddafi and ends up the same. How it was possible to agree with them when by nature they recognized only force. You can negotiate with secular, civilized countries, but not with dictatorships. You do not confuse civilized Europe with medieval dictatorships. Ahmaninejad a reactionary, religious Orthodox striving to take possession of nuclear weapons in order to impose Islamic order around the world and destroy neighboring states. Iran has been offered many times to agree, but the ayatollahs want to circumcise the whole world. The world community is already running out of patience with them.

          If troops are not brought into Europe, it itself will never attack.
          1. Mihaylo Tishayshiy
            Mihaylo Tishayshiy 14 December 2012 21: 52
            +5
            You forgot to mention Putin, because in the opinion of "civilized" Europe he is not much different from the above "dictators", except that behind him is a fairly powerful country with nuclear weapons.
            Quote: Beck
            If troops are not brought into Europe, it itself will never attack.

            But according to your logic, Europe has a lot of work in Russia. One could take a hundred militants killed by the federal forces, change their clothes and bury them, and then "accidentally" find and present these "unfortunate, innocent civilians" to the public as a fact of Putin's genocide of his own people, etc. etc. (we saw variations on this theme in Yugoslavia and Syria). And how many beautiful "free" and "sovereign" states could be created from undemocratic, totalitarian Russia - what's wrong with that? But Russia is not Yugoslavia and Syria, the weight category is not the same. And today we will discuss here how we do not slide down to their weight category, so as not to become another Iraq, where for several years of NATO occupation and the "freedom" of civilians at the hands of "peacekeepers" and terrorists more died than in all the decades of Hussein's dictatorship , in which there were no terrorists in the country and the spirit. We see the same in "free" Libya, plunged into a civil war by "benevolent" Europe. And in Syria in general - "put out the lights" - by the hands of Islamist terrorists, secular Europe has already killed tens of thousands of civilians, blaming it on Assad's "bloody regime". And what will happen next? But for these "humanitarians" ephemeral freedom is dearer than the deaths and tears of millions of people. Isn't that bad either?
            1. Beck
              Beck 14 December 2012 22: 32
              -5
              The worse Libya and Iraq live now? What is Islamic sharia power? Dictators were thrown off and live choosing their leaders in the elections.

              Putin fought separatism in the Caucasus. He did not bomb Tambov, Ryazan, Novgorod. Have you compared Putin with Gaddafi? Well, you have a comparison. You can compare a fucking watermelon with a fig. And leave your conjectures like, "but you can take it" on April 1.

              Quote: Mihaylo Tishayshiy
              And how many wonderful "free" and "sovereign" states could be created out of undemocratic, totalitarian Russia - what's wrong with that?


              Are you provoking Russia to the Yugoslav version? It’s better not to touch the federal structure of Russia; you won’t turn your back on troubles. According to your words, only mercenaries howl in Syria, and Assad’s army kills them. Syria recently submitted 143 dead foreigners to the UN. We will say mercenaries. Let's take that there are ten times more 1430 mercenaries killed without documents. Multiplying by 3 we get 4290. We round up 5 thousand killed mercenaries. At the moment, 30 thousand people have died in Syria. 5 thousand hired. 25 thousand who? Is it really all Assad soldiers. Well, the army. Or are these aliens, because in your opinion the population of Syria does not fight Assad. Oh well.
              1. Mihaylo Tishayshiy
                Mihaylo Tishayshiy 15 December 2012 01: 21
                +3
                Leave your thoughts on a better life in Iraq and Libya on April 1, too. In general, you absolutely did not understand what I wrote about. Show me in the text where I compare Putin with Gaddafi? This is done by the "free" Western media.
                Show me in the text where I provoke Russia to the Yugoslav version and touch its federal structure? This is exactly what the "peace-loving" West wants, and in my commentary I argue that this will not work. You have taken the phrase out of context.
                Show me the text, where I say that only mercenaries fight in Syria? I said - Islamic terrorists. If they make explosions, kill civilians, destroy Christian churches, if not from government troops, but thousands of ordinary people flee from them, then they - terrorists and I do not care what citizenship they have and in what percentage. And they are being prepared and financed by Western "humanitarians" who do not hide it.
                My dear, I read your other comments and thought that I was arguing with a serious opponent, you either do not understand me, or you begin to distort phrases. The impression that I'm talking to the deaf. Good night, it's already five in the morning.
                1. Beck
                  Beck 15 December 2012 10: 38
                  -2
                  Quote: Mihaylo Tishayshiy
                  Show on the text where I compare Putin with Gaddafi?


                  I missed Putin, read inattentively, tired. It happens. The main thing is not to persist in error.

                  For the rest, the context is correct. You claim that Assad is lawful, kind and fluffy, I refute this. You have your own arguments, I have mine. I’ll try to demonstrate Assad’s policies and policies around him using a common example. I have already given this. But he is very visual, so I repeat.

                  Three men are smoking on the staircase. After the fourth entrance door, cries and cries for help are heard. The fourth neighbor beats his wife and children. 1 on the court says, let's go stop the beating. 2 - this is not our business, they will sort it out themselves. A woman's cry is heard - kill, help. 1 says let's call the police. 3 says - it’s not necessary, the neighbor owes me 100 rubles if he is taken away by someone who will repay my debt. Blood is already flowing from under the doors. 1 rushes to the door. 2,3 they do not let him in, they say - do not go into it yourself will figure it out.

                  This is approximately the situation in Syria. For half a year, the Syrians in peaceful demonstrations demanded only free, fair elections. Assad began to shoot at the people. And what would be the election. Assad would have won the flag in his hands. Lose would leave. How to leave, after the defeat in the election, the presidents of democratic countries. But Assad began to shoot. The people were tired of dying irresponsibly, he also took up arms. Of course, every trash came. But the basis of the people. And why not sympathize with the people? And why sympathize with the dictator?
          2. Botanologist
            Botanologist 14 December 2012 22: 39
            +6
            Milosevic wanted to preserve Yugoslavia by military force.
            Well nifigase argument! What about England, who ironed Ireland as she could?

            Hussein and Gaddafi were basically illegal.
            Well, are we waiting for an attack on Africa, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and then on the list? Or is illegality determined in some special, unknown way? So share it.

            Ahmaninejad is a reactionary, religious Orthodox striving to seize nuclear weapons,

            Well, of course, only the Orthodox of Israel and the United States can have nuclear weapons, others can’t.

            You can negotiate with secular, civilized countries, but not with dictatorships.
            Of course, of course, especially if someone is sitting on an aircraft carrier and decides with whom to negotiate, and with whom not. Democracy, civilization and peacefulness are guaranteed.

            If troops are not brought into Europe, it itself will never attack.

            Well, tell us about the troops sent by Saddam Hussein to Europe. And enlighten about Gaddafi’s attack on Europe. And at the same time about the troops brought into Europe by Milosevic, Basar Assad.

            In short, man, they’re not good at preparing you in the State Department. The argument is intended for children who do not know history and watch the FOX channel.
            1. Beck
              Beck 14 December 2012 22: 58
              -7
              Your manner of disputation is not productive. I'm talking about Yugoslavia, and you - And what about England. Now I can say - England? But how then is Japan in China. So let's get away from the topic.

              Quote: Botanologist
              Or is illegality determined in some special, unknown way? So share it.


              Illegality is what Hussein and Gaddafi received power not as a result of free elections, but as a result of the seizure of power by force, a military coup. As it is inconvenient to repeat the basics. If you get involved in a dispute, you should know the story.

              Neither the United States. nor did Israel threaten the destruction of other states. These are ayatollahs, teachers of Ahmadinejad declared that the USA is a big Satan, Russia is a small Satan. First, slaughter the big Satan, then the small one.

              Hussein attacked Iran and Kuwait. Gaddafi blew Passenger planes over England.

              That's what you have. If the interlocutor is of a different opinion, then he is a stooge of the State Department, Israel. Now, if I don’t agree with you, I’m not saying that you are poorly trained at skinhead organizations. And as for the argument, I’ll have a bit more. Well, you didn’t know that Hussein attacked Kuwait and you don’t know how many passengers died in an airplane blown up by Gaddafi.
      2. Botanologist
        Botanologist 14 December 2012 22: 26
        +4
        Therefore, it’s enough to spit on the West, it is necessary to transfer politics and the core of military efforts to the Far East.

        Well, as soon as the missile defense is removed closer to Iran and away from us, it will be possible to think about your arguments. In the meantime, I do not see pacifism in either NATO or the United States.
        1. Beck
          Beck 14 December 2012 22: 39
          -3
          Quote: Botanologist
          Well, as soon as the missile defense is removed closer to Iran and away from us, it will be possible to think about your arguments. In the meantime, I do not see pacifism in either NATO or the United States.


          If not even removed. There is more potential danger in the East than in the West. The army’s ability to confront on two fronts at once is not enough. Therefore, of the two evils, one must choose the lesser and concentrate on the greater evil.
  5. Bykov.
    Bykov. 14 December 2012 08: 08
    +8
    No one heard Taburetkin, to the highest awards for services to NATO, did not represent?
    In my opinion, he deserved from them, but from us, I hope, he will also receive: hemp and soap.
    1. Normal
      Normal 14 December 2012 08: 12
      +3
      Quote: Bulls.
      No one heard Taburetkin, to the highest awards for services to NATO, did not represent?

      We must wait for Serdyukov to be awarded the Order of Merit to the Fatherland or the Medal for Service in Battle.
    2. sergo0000
      sergo0000 14 December 2012 09: 39
      +7
      Bykov.,
      For one GRU alone, you can safely shoot him!
      1. military
        military 14 December 2012 10: 34
        +6
        Quote: sergo0000
        For one GRU alone, you can safely shoot him!

        hi well, here again ... feel the main one said: "no complaints!" ... wink we believe him ... he is good ... and we even love ... in the soul ... somewhere very, very deep ... winked
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 14 December 2012 11: 41
          +2
          LIKE Taburetkin went to the hospital, where is the thread in a Swiss clinic. And then there are precedents. Such an "effective manager" will work, and then we find him where the thread is in the Austrian Alps in a five-star kumis hospital
          1. military
            military 14 December 2012 12: 05
            +5
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            As if Taburetkin didn’t lie down in a hospital, where is the thread in a Swiss clinic.

            what for?... request now they will wash away Mrs. Medvedkina's cousin, and that's all - a little personally, it seems, and "out of business" ... the shit has settled ... you can again appoint to a bread place ... winked
            1. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt 14 December 2012 15: 13
              +3
              Well, the military! Well, the head .... !!!
              1. Churchill
                Churchill 14 December 2012 20: 31
                +6
                It’s just that Anatoly Eduardovich sincerely believed that the end of the world would write everything off!
                They didn’t give a gossip on the road ... No.
    3. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 14 December 2012 11: 45
      +1
      First, soap, then hemp. am
      1. military
        military 14 December 2012 13: 09
        0
        Quote: Black Colonel
        First, soap, then hemp.

        Why so immediately? ...
        first - petroleum jelly, then - pumpkin ... feel then the rest ... drinks
  6. Sergg
    Sergg 14 December 2012 08: 14
    +6
    I would have handed the order to Serdyukov with a shot from Makarov’s pistol, as to a well-deserved full-fledged traitor to the Motherland.
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 14 December 2012 09: 16
      +3
      A pistol shot is an honorable death. Such should be hung on a frontal place, and it is better to hang up for a causal place.
      Yes, and a question arises, such "services" to the Fatherland and still at large? Not according to merit.
      1. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 14 December 2012 11: 49
        0
        If for the causal, it will die quickly from pain. Better for one leg, hanging for a long time and uncomfortable.
    2. vadimN
      vadimN 14 December 2012 13: 17
      +1
      Quote: Sergg
      I would hand the order to Serdyukov with a shot from Makarov’s pistol


      I will allow myself to joke: "... from a pistol taken from General Makarov"
  7. smel
    smel 14 December 2012 08: 18
    +8
    The disbanding of divisions and the creation of permanent readiness brigades on their basis was justified by the leadership of the Ministry of Defense with the need to increase the mobility of troops, the level of their operational and combat training. The goals are certainly good and it makes no sense to challenge them, but there are no scientifically based judgments about the unconditional benefits of the introduced brigade principle of recruitment.
    Why ... There was an experience, a sad truth, of carrying out TU with 74 omsbr from Yurga. But this did not affect the decision. And what kind of combat training can we talk about if there is no one from the controlling bodies. far from professionals. This is evidenced by the cruel rubbing of glasses during the latest "strategic exercises" in the Caucasus.
    Well, if our law enforcement agencies do not see Serdyukov's criminal activities, then they are looking for the blind or deaf. His actions easily fall under the article "Treason to the Motherland." Did our guarantor say anything about this in the message?
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 14 December 2012 09: 57
      +2
      Quote: smel
      . And if our Prime Minister is satisfied with the work of MO Serdyukov, then I want him to share his fate
  8. tomket
    tomket 14 December 2012 08: 38
    +2
    I absolutely agree with the article! There is no army! When we were serving under a contract near Murmansk, we heard rumors that there, beyond Murmansk, there really are normal combat-ready units, we all right, we are forgotten about the outskirts, but someone also has metals and machine guns that shoot in bursts rather than single shots, and MiG-29 commanders can be distinguished from Su-24.
  9. xorgi
    xorgi 14 December 2012 08: 38
    0
    In fairness, it should be noted that the collapse of the sun began long before Serdyukov. The author of the article himself confirms this:
    "In the Air Defense Forces, the arrival of new equipment stopped in 1994 and did not resume until 2007."
    The article very famously circumvented the main direction of the current problem situation: the Caucasus and Central Asia. NATO and China are held back by strategic forces, but the reality of war in the Caucasus exists every day.
    My sentence is an article minus.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 14 December 2012 09: 03
      +5
      NATO and China are held back by strategic forces, but the reality of war in the Caucasus exists every day.

      And will anyone give them (Strategic Rocket Forces) a start command? and if in China there is still some kind of confidence, then according to Nato, I’m personally not sure (remember accounts in Western banks, real estate in the same place, educating our children, etc., etc.) ...
      1. Middle-brother
        Middle-brother 14 December 2012 09: 52
        +3
        Quote: PSih2097
        remember the accounts in Western banks, real estate there, the education of their children, etc. etc.

        +1
        How many yells there were about the "Magnitsky list", which most Russians do not care about, and some do not even know what it is.
        1. military
          military 14 December 2012 10: 40
          +5
          Quote: Middle Brother
          How many yells there were about the "Magnitsky list", which most Russians do not care about, and some do not even know what it is.

          and, which is characteristic, all 4 Duma factions were whining in unison, having forgotten about the differences ... recourse what a unity! ... feel
    2. vorobey
      vorobey 14 December 2012 09: 13
      +10
      xorgi,

      I agree with you. The problem that the author touched exists and it is critical, but to such an extent to exaggerate. Yes, there is no army so that it can wage a large-scale war, but we still have the country.

      They talked a lot about the last message of the president. Water idle talk and stuff. And whoever cleared that the topic of defense was not raised - touched casually summing up. Do you understand what they screwed up? Or they are silent about that which is inevitable and close.

      Recently read one article. A brief excerpt from it.

      The British Foreign Minister, Lord Palmerston, during the Eastern War (the Crimean War of England and France against Russia 1853-1856) stated his strategic dreams to the British ambassador in Washington: “For me, the ideal goal of the war is to: return the Aland Islands and Finland to return Sweden restore the core of the Polish kingdom as a barrier between Germany and Russia; Wallachia and Moldova to give to Austria; Crimea, Circassia and Georgia break away from Russia; Crimea and Georgia to transfer to Turkey. Circassia becomes independent, or obeys the sovereignty of the Sultan. "

      As historical experience shows, this scenario was almost literally reproduced first by Napoleon Bonaparte, then twice by Germany, and today it is realized by the West and, above all, the United States.

      The means of implementing these strategies were surprisingly uniform: the initiation of anti-Russian movements and actions: in the west and south-west - in Poland, the Baltic states, in Ukraine; Turks - in the Balkans and from the south; the incitement and organization of "national liberation (from Russia) of the Caucasian wars." All this was accompanied by the formation of their own fifth column within Russia (starting from “those times”, that is, from the “Troubles”, Pugachev, the Decembrists, People’s Volunteers and Social Democrats, to modern “young reformers”, fighters for “universal human values” and bribed state officials).


      http://www.kadet.ru/lichno/vlad_v/Strat_fars.htm
  10. Cavas
    Cavas 14 December 2012 08: 56
    0
    An alarmist article, the author has to turn us into Papuans and offer a choice of banana or beads!
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 14 December 2012 09: 04
      +4
      Alarm article

      But there is no smoke without fire?
      1. Cavas
        Cavas 14 December 2012 13: 26
        +1
        Quote: PSih2097
        But there is no smoke without fire?

        It happens! laughing

        If two colorless gases — ammonia and hydrogen chloride — are mixed in a flask at room temperature, then thick white smoke will immediately appear. It represents the smallest crystals of ammonium chloride:

        NH3 + HCl = NH4Cl.

        Smoke will soon settle on the wall of the vessel in the form of a white coating.



        what
    2. military
      military 14 December 2012 10: 57
      +5
      Quote: Cavas
      the author has to turn us into Papuans and offer a choice of banana or beads!

      but it seems to me that our population has been around for twenty years, as it has been planted with power on these very beads with bananas ... recourse
      1. Cavas
        Cavas 14 December 2012 13: 28
        +1
        Quote: military
        but it seems to me that our population has been around for twenty years, as it has been planted with power on these very beads with bananas ...

        No need to live by the principle:

        Everything can express so wonderful!
        Ah, tricking me is not difficult! ...
        I'm happy to deceive myself!


        A.S. Pushkin
        1. military
          military 14 December 2012 13: 49
          +2
          Quote: Cavas
          Everything can express so wonderful!

          still expresses ... and like this "wonderful" ... and like this ...
          Quote: Cavas
          Ah, tricking me is not difficult! ...

          ... was ... once
          Quote: Cavas
          I'm happy to deceive myself!

          hell to him in the village! tongue
          1. Cavas
            Cavas 14 December 2012 14: 07
            +1
            Quote: military
            hell to him in the village!

            Agree, Pushkin is more than a poet-diviner!

            A poet in Russia is more than a poet.
            It is destined to be born poets
            only those in whom the proud spirit of citizenship wanders,
            who has no comfort, no peace.

            Evgeny Evtushenko.
            1. military
              military 14 December 2012 15: 00
              +1
              Quote: Cavas
              Agree, Pushkin is more than a poet-diviner!

              maybe ... yes
              Quote: Cavas
              only those in whom wanders proud spirit of citizenshipwho do not have comfort no peace.

              today, causation is a little trivial ...
              "the spirit of citizenship" awakened in some, completely depriving others of their peace by their awakening ... wink
  11. Strashila
    Strashila 14 December 2012 08: 56
    +5
    You go to the website of the Ministry of Ministry of Defense and see what is for sale ... mobile infrastructure ... everything related to railway transport is up for sale ... and why are we going to transfer 8000 km on wheels now. We forgot that the state sold Russian Railways, and the private trader will not scratch without 100% prepayment and break the price by 300%. For the bureaucrats of Moscow Region, the country ends with the Moscow Ring Road ... and here almost asphalt is everywhere.
  12. jagdpanzer
    jagdpanzer 14 December 2012 09: 04
    +1
    if tomorrow is war, then we should have a khan, if of course we don’t break away with vigorous bonbs, and there’s nowhere to go to the partisans anymore, the benefit of the USSR again left the NVP left
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 14 December 2012 09: 07
      +1
      and there’s nowhere else to go to the partisans,

      Well, with new means of detection, it will be problematic, not 41 years on the nose, so Terminator 4 as a survival guide ...
  13. Roomata
    Roomata 14 December 2012 09: 19
    +1
    Do not entertain yourself with joy tomorrow
    you already missed it
    the day before yesterday began
  14. Owl
    Owl 14 December 2012 09: 26
    +9
    The PRESIDENT is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens in the country and in the army, he appointed Serdyuk to the post, he made a decision to equip the army with "goyushniki", he still covers up thieves and traitors.
    1. military
      military 14 December 2012 10: 51
      +2
      Quote: Eagle Owl
      The President is responsible for everything that happens in the country and in the army

      drinks and which, by the way? ... is it temporary, with the label of a liberalist? ... or this, multi-start? ... feel
      by the way, both show absolutely no desire to answer for anything ... recourse
      1. Owl
        Owl 14 December 2012 11: 29
        +4
        He appointed the GDP, and he really ruled with the "teddy bear".
        1. military
          military 14 December 2012 12: 17
          +2
          Quote: Eagle Owl
          He appointed the GDP, and he really ruled with the "teddy bear".

          no, this one won't answer ... No. he put on the aegis of the "statist" in time ... wink it’s fashionable today ... recourse
  15. karimbaev
    karimbaev 14 December 2012 09: 39
    +5
    Kick-ass to the army of Russia according to intelligence estimates is 50 billion dollars! And there are no new tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, aircraft, air defense and so on. where does all the money go? Moreover, Russia itself produces all the necessary equipment for its army.
    lack of patriotism among the ranks and senior commanding staff is tantamount to a betrayal of the homeland. again, the poor infantry will drag the whole war, and again, like in the Second World War, some ordinary Sidorov or some other conscript will sacrifice his life. oh Empire was once
    1. tomket
      tomket 14 December 2012 12: 55
      +2
      HOW DOES 50BILL go? And cutlets to the soldiers? Put the sausages on a plate, well, probably foie gras with elite wines of France, here they’re eating up the budget of glutton! And Serdyukov is probably poor every day on the subway, he didn’t buy bread, he saved another MISTRAL to buy, I thought everything in my head, but what if !!! 1 How are we going to fight? What are we going to fight off? Probably they will have to buy spears in Africa and in Australia there are boomerangs!
    2. Bekzat
      Bekzat 14 December 2012 16: 56
      +2
      Plus to you, dear comrade Karimbaev
  16. sefirs
    sefirs 14 December 2012 09: 41
    +11
    The 29th Army, which is now occupied by the building of the former headquarters of the Siberian Military District in Chita, has only one brigade in the territory from Ulan-Ude to Belogorsk - and this is about three thousand kilometers of the state border, says Lieutenant General V. Sobolev. “In the event of an armed conflict with China, it will be very difficult for the Chinese to find it in order to capture or destroy it ... Not funny.”
    This, damn it, full pipets !!!!
    Already only for this, the former minister should be suspended for certain, purely male organs
    angry
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 14 December 2012 10: 15
      +2
      Quote: sefirs
      Already only for this, the former minister should be suspended for certain, purely male organs

      Let the new one change the situation, or they will hang or shoot him anyway. He knows a lot.
    2. bddrus
      bddrus 14 December 2012 10: 17
      +1
      what's the point of talking about China - put up at least a million instead of a brigade - there only powerful weapons will help, not the number of people
    3. military
      military 14 December 2012 13: 21
      +1
      Quote: sefirs
      Already only for this, the former minister should be suspended for certain, purely male organs

      hi if only he could find those ... request
  17. peter-tank
    peter-tank 14 December 2012 09: 44
    +7
    Quote: "The assertion of General of the Army Nikolai Makarov that brigades are not inferior to divisions in terms of firepower is far from the truth."
    Makar must also be placed against the wall next to Serdyukov. For NGSH, such "statements" are a statement of their own mediocrity. I know that N.E. Makarov is not a stupid person - that means he deliberately carried this nonsense, therefore, he is a deliberate pest, traitor, criminal. Even our cadets can count that there were 10 howitzer self-propelled artillery divisions in the division, and only TWO in the brigade; the division had 6 tank battalions, the brigade had ONE. After all, any combined-arms officer understands that a brigade is (at its core) a reinforced regiment. So, it seems to me that the time of interrogation of Nikolai Yegorych is not far off.
    1. military
      military 14 December 2012 11: 06
      +3
      Quote: piter-tank
      So, it seems to me that the time of interrogations of Nikolai Yegorych is not far off.

      what a you, my friend, bloodthirsty! ... laughing "chuk and gek" they gave him a Star for this, and give you interrogations ... feel will be realistic ... request drinks
  18. COBOK
    COBOK 14 December 2012 09: 48
    +4
    I talked to a man: he got three years for fraud, confessed everything, only he did not commit the crime, they ask him: why? the answer is simple, beautiful and clear - they gave me an apartment for this, wrote to a relative, for this I confessed, a special order, a first conviction and a bunch of mitigating ones - hence the relatively short term and the proviso: "where in freedom in three years you can earn without straining an apartment? " plus more "heating" for the entire period.

    None of the harem is convicted, the characteristics from the Ministry of Defense will be only positive, "repent" and will receive three or four years for exceeding their powers (if not conditionally). Upon release - no restrictions on movement - hello money and nafig them these apartments and positions.

    The only punishment is after a "serious conversation" on the topic "where is the money, Zin?" and voluntary return of everything to the treasury, nafig from the country without a penny (well, or they will die by accident from separation from their beloved maid am ) - this is the punishment for them of the terrible hypothetical shootings and hangings, just the meaning of theft disappears
    1. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 14 December 2012 12: 03
      +5
      There was a good tradition in the OGPU (NKVD, KGB) - a bad guy was found behind a hillock anywhere in the world, brought to the Union and executed the sentence (if it was impossible, they ended up at the place of discovery). It is time to revive the tradition. For edification. am
  19. Volkhov
    Volkhov 14 December 2012 09: 50
    -2
    An article in the style of all modern ideology is to blindfold so that they themselves do not see anything, and scream loud slogans in the ears.
    The sale is just logical - you can’t use it, China and the USA with Russia in the same supranational system and the empty border in the east are a guarantee against rebellion against the USA - if there is Minin and Pozharsky, then the Chinese infantry will restore order (in their sense).
    The real threats are not shown at all - a geophysical catastrophe and the danger of a collision with the Reich - if the cities are destroyed, then what difference does it make, how many bits have been demagnetized on the accounts of mayors ...
  20. LaGlobal
    LaGlobal 14 December 2012 09: 59
    +5
    I WILL RESPOND VERY Rough!
    - PZDTS, IN ONE WORD! THESE FOUND IT!
    - AND IF TOMORROW WAR? - WE WILL GET LULY FOR SEVERAL YEARS AS IN OLD GOOD TIMES! AND THERE ARE LOOKING FOR WHAT CAN BE DISPOSED IF IT CAN SOMETHING OR SOMETHING TO DISPOSE ...

    I do not deny that I and WE are all people - patriots, that we won’t give our country an insult! But again, at what cost ???

    And will there be a future after this price OUR COUNTRY WITH YOU? (!)
    Everyone, they only steal - they steal, they still cannot steal anything!?!

    Maybe enough already, but gentlemen, officials (of any rank) ???
    Maybe you will think not only about your pockets ?? !!! But about his homeland! About Her Future (Homeland) and the Future of OURS WITH YOUR CHILDREN ?!
    1. Vanek
      Vanek 14 December 2012 10: 02
      +2
      Quote: LaGlobal
      I WILL RESPOND VERY Rough!


      Normally answered!

      Quote: LaGlobal
      But about his homeland!


      NO AT THEIR HOMELAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    2. military
      military 14 December 2012 11: 11
      +1
      Quote: LaGlobal
      And will there be a future after this price OUR COUNTRY WITH YOU?

      surrenders, this country has long ceased to be OUR WITH YOU ... recourse
      the occupier rules the ball ... request
    3. mamba
      mamba 14 December 2012 14: 46
      +1
      Quote: LaGlobal
      COUNTRY will not give offense! But again, at what cost ???
      And will there be a future after this price OUR COUNTRY WITH YOU? (!)
      Everyone, they only steal - they steal, they still cannot steal anything!?!

      The price will be, as in the first Chechen one, and the scale, as in 1941, but it can be worse ... am
      After that, there will be no one to ask about the future. crying
  21. Lech e-mine
    Lech e-mine 14 December 2012 09: 59
    +2
    What can I say, REFORMS of the protégé of MEDVEDEV SERDYUKOV were carried out mediocre and criminally. For this they both bear personal responsibility.
    I also have questions for PUTIN-where did he look (he was waiting for something when it would become completely CRUNIOUS)
    Now, in a serious conflict with the WEST, we can only rely on the SYS. All these SERDYUKOV brigades will detain the enemy only for a short time.
    Next, you will have to go in the old fashioned Partisan fashion following the example of our ancestors.
    Modern equipment supplied to the troops without competent specialists is just a bunch of iron - there are very few of these specialists.
    I'm afraid this situation will drag on for an UNCERTAIN TIME for a long time.
    1. LaGlobal
      LaGlobal 14 December 2012 11: 05
      0
      Quote: Leha e-mine
      What can I say, REFORMS of the protégé of MEDVEDEV SERDYUKOV were carried out mediocre and criminally. For this they both bear personal responsibility.


      It seems to me that in addition to Igor Rurikovich and Peter the Great, it’s normal, so to speak, to have a good time, that then, that today, NO ONE COULD!
    2. military
      military 14 December 2012 11: 13
      +1
      Quote: Leha e-mine
      REFORMS protege Medvedeva Serdyukov carried out mediocre and criminally

      ... under the patronage of PUTIN, however ... recourse
    3. tomket
      tomket 14 December 2012 13: 49
      +2
      I'm a friend on Bear
      I will go out without fear
      If I am with a friend
      A bear without a friend
  22. VadimSt
    VadimSt 14 December 2012 10: 17
    -1
    If you carefully analyze the military threats to Russia, it is clear that the most difficult situation is in the West and the Far East.

    Woke up? These threats are hundreds of years old.

    Quote: Strashila
    and the private trader will not be scratched without 100% prepayment and the price will break 300%.

    Cool it down. To say so, you need to at least read the basic law in the field of mobilization - the Federal Law "On mobilization preparation and mobilization in the Russian Federation", not to mention others. Neither the private owner, nor the local "princelings - presidents", no one will ask anything!
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 14 December 2012 11: 43
      +1
      Well, and who of the current tolerant leadership would risk such a law to really implement? And it’s not enough to command, moreover, performers are required
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 14 December 2012 11: 53
      0
      Quote: VadimSt
      read the basic law

      Oh, holy simplicity!
      Yes, for laws to be implemented, enormous preparatory work is required!
      And we have to pee, vote, read later ... This is too little for at least something to really work.
  23. ADEQUATE
    ADEQUATE 14 December 2012 10: 21
    +2
    C'mon, everyone in the government knew that Mr. Serdyokov and his Mondays were stealing, only they were silent because they had a share in this, for something like this !!!!
  24. Kostyanich
    Kostyanich 14 December 2012 10: 29
    +9
    I propose to remove the S-400 from duty near Moscow and place
    them near the cities of the military-industrial complex (Ekat Izhevsk Tula, etc.)
    In Moscow, one horseradish sit alone parasites like Serdyukov and company wink
    1. military
      military 14 December 2012 11: 18
      +2
      Quote: kostyanich
      I propose to remove the S-400 from duty near Moscow and place them next to the cities of the military-industrial complex (Ekat Izhevsk Tula, etc.). In Moscow, only one parasite such as Serdyukov and a company are sitting

      Yes, and parasites can be dispersed ... the president with the administration - in E-burg, the government - in Izhevsk, the parliament - in Tula, the central bank - in Arzamas-16 ... winked and there will be a formal reason ... so as not to cover everyone at once with a "mighty blow" ... feel
      1. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 14 December 2012 12: 18
        +2
        Better along the perimeter of the country - there will be more air defense facilities, but at the same time the border will be better hidden from the adversary.
  25. Magadan
    Magadan 14 December 2012 11: 00
    +5
    Quote: sergey32
    If war is tomorrow, you have to get the saiga and go to the partisans

    By the way, this moment should be considered at the highest level. There is nothing dumb in partisan actions. The enemy will always have an Achilles' heel on our land - extended communications. This must be used. Schools need to be taught the art of survival in nature. Sabotage troops are needed for fighting in the rear. It is clear that now drones with thermal imagers have appeared, but there must also be something against them. In short, the preparation of the population for war is needed. We need the potential of reservists. People win anyway. The main thing is to exhaust, stretch the enemy. Use the tactics of the Mongols, i.e. be able to crumble and attack from all sides.
    And the West is not supposed to experience illusions: then, after our victory, the population will answer for the jambs of their leaders. We are not as kind as our ancestors. Enough of the Crusaders, Napoleon, Hitler and all those under whom they hide their guts.
    1. Andof odessa
      Andof odessa 14 December 2012 17: 30
      +1
      Well, to deal with thermal imagers, first you need to tear off such silvery insulating fabrics from heating plants and make a lining of them in maskhalats, and will partially screen them. but the question is a little different, people like you (and I’m almost sure) that everyone here, well, 70 percent of one generation will go to the partisans and almost all modern “propagandized” in the spirit of the advantages of “freedom” of “democracy” will go to the police and will it be there are more of them. isn't it time to start the RIGHT brainwashing. where the assessment of a person in society is not in his "STARNESS" but in labor and intellectual capabilities. after all, the problem of the Army is only an element of the whole complex of problems. Isn't it a couple to take a closer look at the immune system of the state (KGB, Ministry of Internal Affairs), otherwise it does not cope with its business at all.
  26. IlyaKuv
    IlyaKuv 14 December 2012 11: 00
    0
    The stories tend to repeat themselves, in the 40s there was the same idiocy, the best military personnel were repressed, the old weapons were taken away, but they weren’t given new ones, read with your bare hands they fought at the beginning of the war ...
  27. valokordin
    valokordin 14 December 2012 11: 05
    +1
    After the article, there remains one hatred of the destroyers of the country and the Army
    1. LaGlobal
      LaGlobal 14 December 2012 11: 07
      +1
      Quote: valokordin
      After the article, there remains one hatred of the destroyers of the country and the Army


      You know, but it is! No matter how sad it sounds = ((
  28. подводник
    подводник 14 December 2012 11: 29
    +6
    Guys this is not my work ... I found it and wanted to share with you ... author's spelling

    Alexander Timokhin writes:

    From time to time, both hamsters in zhezhe and people quite experienced in real life, express the same thought.
    Like, "if this country is attacked, then it will shit, no one will fight for it, the army is in disarray, there is no one to fight, the people will go and wait."
    This is so bad that I decided to speak up.
    My dear friend.
    Let me outline a similar layout for you.
    For example, NATO struck the first blow. Part of the nuclear, but mostly - no.
    Well, ours there sluggishly in response, it turned out badly, the tanks cross the border, the forward units were overturned, crushed, partly destroyed, fleeing to the east. The resistance is minimal, the "Abrams" stick to Moscow.
    Here begins some discrepancy between the views of hamsters and reality.
    In fact, when such a topic is recognized where necessary, the following will happen.
    At your door will call.
    Opening it, you will see the hangover cop, even more hangover flying and a couple of sodlat.
    You will be handed a subpoena, and they will say that by order of the Supreme Commander you are called up for military service. And I have to pack up and leave the hut right now, otherwise they will arrest you.
    Understanding that there are more of them, and they are stronger together, you obey, and dressed in anything, with a pair of changes of linen and socks will go out into the yard.
    There will be a bus. Old and worn. Or two.
    Your neighbors will be sitting in it - the same ones that you saw every day in the parking lot when you went there for your Corolla in the morning.
    You will be taken to the nearest school. They are not considered to be studies now, but they will not be restored for long.
    True, there will be a shortage of windows in the barracks, and you will have to hide at night with a mattress, but this is not fatal.
    You will be trained quickly. You'll dig heel-and-another trenches "in growth." You shoot three or four hundred rounds of ammunition from the AK, several dozen times you prick with a bayonet a withered effigy.
    Kinesh model grenades. Ten times.
    One time you will have to run across the field under the explosions of firecrackers, firing idle as you go.
    Then you will do the same at night, under the lighting shells hanging in the sky - not fully understanding what you are doing.
    There, however, there will be guys who will make two dozen shots from the frontier. But you are not.
    And then, you chase the war.
    People like you will meet others at the appointed place - who fired from cannons pulled from storage warehouses - on one of them you will see the "1956" stamp.
    Then others will catch up - they will have KamAZs and ZILs confiscated on a “citizen”, which hastily repainted in olive color.
    Senior commanders will walk among you - personnel officers who have been sent to command you, and when you manage to see with what eyes they are looking at you, you will see fear and pity.
    Nearby will be those mobilized who have already pulled the urgent, and you will eagerly ask them about everything, instinctively realizing that you do not know what you need to survive.
    You will have a shabby steel helmet - not the kind that you saw on TV before the war.
    You will not have an armor - it just won't be enough for you. You will have kirzachi instead of shoes. But at least you will not get the Soviet form - among you will be those who were given a coat, and maybe a breeches.
    On the last day a gloomy gray-haired general with a fat belly will arrive. He will present your banner to your commander, say that now all of you are the 105-I motorized rifle brigade, and you must proudly carry this name. He hopes you will do your duty.
    The regular army, where there were real tanks and real soldiers, who had normal Kevlar helmets and boots, had already died, there was no one to feed you.
    1. подводник
      подводник 14 December 2012 11: 36
      +5
      Alexander Timokhin writes:
      In the morning you will be given anti-tank weapons - lucky ones, disposable RPGs, old and heavy anti-tank grenades, two pieces.
      The system administrator, who will be next on the list after you, will generally have a SKS carbine instead of a machine gun. And he will not be so alone.
      Then you are in your requisitioned trucks, towing the old cannons in tow to the deployment area.
      Neighboring kolnami pobombyat, you will see burnt cars and corpses, but you will have time to turn around on the ground and dig.
      You will be given vodka, and you will be in turn attached to the fusel bottle, because you have forgotten to give out cups.
      And then, finally, with peace on earth, the assembled army will stop the hordes of high-tech tanks, robots, helicopters, and airplanes. There will be a fiery hell around, at the last second before the first explosion in your positions you will finally realize how much the enemy is.
      And then they will go on the attack, and you will stop them with your machine gun and a couple of grenades. A sysadmin - a carbine and one grenade. And it will seem that all.
      And you know what a guy is?
      You stop them. Yes, yes, it is you who will do it, and then you will stop them again in another place, and then you will chase them back, and remember my word, you will stick the flag in the ruins of their capital.
      And if you are killed, then the system administrator will do it. And if he is also killed, then the one who looks like a n ** ora tipok, who sold phones in the store opposite. And if they kill him, then the pi.arok whom you piz.il because he pisses in the entrance. If not you, then one of them will do it without fail.
      Just because they MUST be stopped, because on the day when they are not stopped, darkness will cover the Universe, because this will be the end of humanity. Because it will be the end of everything.
      Remember, they were always stopped. With that, they have always been stronger. And this time this honor will fall to you, hamster.
      Because no one else.
      Good luck.
      I somehow understand that this also awaits me, but unlike you, I know about it, and regard it as a kind of irresistible reality. Why I appeal to you, because you don’t know. In the end, you can trick and squirm as you like, but death is impossible to avoid. When you are imbued with this, it will also become easy and simple for you.
      1. 123dv
        123dv 14 December 2012 12: 13
        +3
        Yes super !!!
        Sometimes I get angry at others, not like me, not like I’m dressed, behaving differently from me, drunk, arrogant, reckless, dumb and lazy, at all ....
        But the thought that it is with them that I will have to share the slush of trench mud and the warmth of the fire there, in the future, when the war will overwhelm us all, this thought brings me together with them, and I hope that they will be more courageous, desperate and decisive than I am....
      2. Igarr
        Igarr 14 December 2012 12: 20
        +6
        Good text, Alexander Timokhin.
        But..
        They won’t come for me .. I’ll go myself .. to the draft board.
        And he - the draft board - and no !!!
        It’s empty .. and even computers .. squealed. The sysadmin had just taken them somewhere on his Prius.
        ..
        It will be so. If we don’t start to change anything. SAMI.
      3. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 14 December 2012 12: 39
        -4
        I don’t know how anyone, but there’s nothing like that - don’t need to amuse yourself with these illusions ...
        1. Igarr
          Igarr 14 December 2012 13: 34
          +1
          Brother Sarych, what will not happen?
          The fact that NATO will trample on us, and we will stand near Vyazma to death - certainly will not.
          The creeping ..civil aggression will begin ... the Wahhabis, the bewildered, puppeteers, anyone else who has gone mad.
          China will not stand aside. From the side of Afghanistan - they will help. But how not to help? At one time, we helped them. Now they will begin to us.
          And where will our mobile teams rush?
          And how it all comes to the point - here they will come .. bros ... from abroad.
          And you won't need to capture anyone. A couple of "Akhzarits" - and they will bring everything on a silver platter ..
          ...
          So you have to defend yourself - one by one. Or partisan.
          1. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 14 December 2012 13: 37
            -3
            It was necessary to stand to death a little earlier - and now you can only relax and, as far as possible, have fun ...
            You would think that the majority are no longer in the position of partisans and do not survive alone as they can ...
            1. zevs379
              zevs379 15 December 2012 17: 44
              -1
              Quote: Brother Sarich
              It was necessary to stand to death a little earlier - and now you can only relax and, as far as possible, have fun ... You would think that most are now not in the position of partisans and do not survive alone as they can ...


              You are therefore non-Russian, therefore, you will relax and we will die and we will all win equally !!!!!
      4. Volkhov
        Volkhov 14 December 2012 12: 52
        +1
        Such a classic war with NATO is possible only after the Russian Federation leaves the control of America, that is, at first the revolution ...
        A war for America is possible right now, like a penal battalion, but the enemy will be the Reich, which cannot be jumped to in the breeches, some actions are possible for submariners, rocket men, scouts, and the rest will be able to dismantle the ruins, patrol cities from marauders, fight at maximum Persians and blacks, but the main enemy will be inside, as now Caucasians. Nazi and Zionist networks within the Russian Federation will go into a direct conflict, and the Russian population will be their infantry, which is not desirable, therefore peace and preparation are better.
      5. tan0472
        tan0472 14 December 2012 13: 01
        +2
        Quote: submariner
        You will stop them ... If not you, then one of them will do it without fail.

        And for this to happen faster and with less loss, we need regular fees for all normal men. So that everyone knows how to shoot from machine guns, RPGs and MANPADS, if not by 5 points, then at least by 4.
      6. Per se.
        Per se. 14 December 2012 17: 03
        +2
        Quote: submariner
        Because no one else.
        It was similar to Arkady Gaidar. Will there only be a new Malchish-Kibalchish, will he have friends, or Bad Boys alone, with cans of bourgeois jam and packs of cookies that don’t need anything else. Will such a Kibalchish wait for the mighty Red Army, and where is it now ... Can anything else be changed, that is the question.
      7. Garrin
        Garrin 14 December 2012 17: 48
        +2
        The article is good, there is no doubt, but I read it a long time ago, at least a year ago. Mentally written and there is nothing to argue with. But in connection with the above, I would propose such a proposal. And let’s conduct an audit, among men who did not serve, at the age of at least 40 years and all the majors discharged from the service, we’ll check how sick, how sick? Who bought what information? I am sure that now we will not find those diagnoses. And at the service of all, let them nevertheless return their duty to their homeland, but at the same time they will improve their health and get rid of bad habits and change their outlook on life.
  29. 123dv
    123dv 14 December 2012 11: 50
    0
    We are still on the Kulikovo field.
    We are not the first to start first.
    Movement, hand familiar for a long time,
    To take out a heavy sword from the scabbard.

    Meet the whole world to go to the adversary
    My country is not the first time.
    In her hand is not a peaceful atom,
    And a strong shield, as before.

    And this time we can’t escape the battle,
    Again about the son, the mother sobs.
    And there will be pop whispering his prayers
    On the abusive field of the fallen funeral.
  30. 123dv
    123dv 14 December 2012 11: 54
    0
    We are still on the Kulikovo field.
    We are not the first to start first.
    Movement, hand familiar for a long time,
    To take out a heavy sword from the scabbard.

    Meet the whole world to go to the adversary
    My country is not the first time.
    In her hand is not a peaceful atom,
    And a strong shield, as before.

    And this time we can’t escape the battle,
    Again about the son, the mother sobs.
    And there will be pop whispering his prayers
    On the abusive field of the fallen funeral.
  31. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 14 December 2012 12: 14
    0
    Yes .... He’ll sit down, in a difficult hour for his homeland, a fighter for the levers of the tank, but he won’t start because the tank was made during the Soviet era. Here is such an OLYMPIAD.
    1. 123dv
      123dv 14 December 2012 12: 19
      +3
      Not stsy, start!
      There was a joke a couple of years ago when there were rallies and protests in the Czech Republic, or in Slovakia, and the police chased demonstrators. And just Victory Day and the Soviet tank stood in the square for beauty. So some pepper got into the tank, started it, and ran into the police on the tank. The boys fled in shock.
      Sorry for the solarium is over. T-34 however!
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 14 December 2012 15: 18
        0
        I feel that our man was sitting at the leverage! soldier
  32. Clueless
    Clueless 14 December 2012 12: 15
    -1
    "Or here's another question: does Russia need nuclear aircraft carriers, Mistral helicopter carriers and for what tasks? If for conducting military operations in areas remote from Russia, to fight piracy, then this is understandable. And what should these weapons do in their defense And they cannot be used independently, but only as part of a strike force. They need an escort, escort ships and support ships. "

    Reading articles with such content, for some reason I come to an interesting opinion - that the authors of these articles are interested in Russia having only an army for defense, and not for an offensive. And we need both this and that. Enough to poison the Mistral, it’s better than nothing at all
    1. tomket
      tomket 14 December 2012 13: 07
      0
      Here we can recall the experience of the Germans with Bismarck and Tirpitz, they ate a lot of money during the construction almost like two tank groups, and there was no sense from them for the war, well, except that they played an interesting game - hide Tirpitz, well, the idiot was Ustinov when he built submarines and refused to Tbilisi with Varyag. Well, we can’t confront openly at sea. But the danger of the Leopards near Moscow is real, there is all the money of the defense budget.
  33. Trevis
    Trevis 14 December 2012 13: 05
    +1
    Whoever comes to us with a sword will perish by the sword! soldier
    1. robinson
      robinson 14 December 2012 14: 31
      +1
      Quote: Trevis
      Whoever comes to us with a sword will perish by the sword!

      He who comes to us with a sword
      With him in the pope and leave,
      Kohl walk, of course, be able
      This complete idiot
    2. Igarr
      Igarr 14 December 2012 15: 04
      +1
      Continuation begs.
      Optimistic ..
      Whoever comes to us with a glass and a snack will be fed and drunk, and his nose in tobacco.
      ..
      "Guys, let's live together", - Leopold the Cat.
  34. tomket
    tomket 14 December 2012 13: 16
    0
    By the way, and the answer to the Serdyukov reform, the warranty period of "Satan" expired as far as I remember in 2010-2012. There was also a moment of truth about this broadcast on TVC, about whether it will fly somewhere after it is unknown, including to the developers, the enterprise that remained in the country for the enrichment of uranium was also kind of closed, well, and then the Serdyukov reform fell on us. they will take us with their bare hands until 2015.

    So do not count on the nuclear shield.
  35. Clueless
    Clueless 14 December 2012 13: 22
    +1
    Quote: tomket
    Here we can recall the experience of the Germans with Bismarck and Tirpitz, they ate a lot of money during the construction almost like two tank groups, and there was no sense from them for the war


    it was a good thing, because only a developed power could build such ships, thereby Germany showed the whole world that it was worth reckoning with it

    plus got a big engineering school, etc.
  36. tomket
    tomket 14 December 2012 13: 31
    0
    I remembered another story, how the Germans tested the cannons from the "Ricillier" or from the "Jean Bar", in general they fired them from them, regularly recorded the readings, then they prepared a report on the suitability of the guns there and there, but since the resource of the trunks was tests worked out, then the guns are UNSUITABLE !!!! here is your engineering school! Two tank groups instead of Bismarck and two tank groups instead of Tirpitz, would have helped in the battle of Moscow, but no matter how strong Bismarck and Tirpitz were, in the same battle under Mosvkoy and the swamps of Belarus there is no sense from them) as well as from the engineering school of karable building)))))
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 14 December 2012 15: 09
      -1
      You also need to add the aircraft carrier Count Zeppelin - this is how many divisions
      The battleship of the Soviet Union had 70% readiness for the corps, and two more of the same type of warp to a lesser degree of readiness for the corps — how many divisions would it take?
  37. подводник
    подводник 14 December 2012 13: 33
    0
    Here is another author ...

    Mikhail Shelepov writes:

    In the evening you drive home from work in a minibus. At the carrier plays some kind of "Russian Radio". Suddenly, the song of Stas Mikhailov breaks off and after a short jingle, the news announcer broadcasts with hesitation the unread text of the urgent message. He says that at 17 p.m. Moscow time a missile and bomb strike was launched on the cities of Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kaliningrad, Kursk, as well as a nuclear strike on the cities of Novosibirsk, Chelyabinsk, Magnitogorsk, Vladivostok

    Destroyed by tactical nuclear missiles Sayano-Shushenskaya, Krasnoyarsk, Bratsk, Ust-Ilim, Volgograd hydroelectric power stations, sabotage groups damaged the reactors of the Balakovo, Beloyarsk, Bilibino, Kalinin, Leningrad, Smolensk, Kursk, Novovoronezh nuclear plants. The Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod gas pipeline was blown up at the sections of the Ukhta-Punga dock, and 15 kilometers from the Ilet River in the Volga region. According to preliminary data, the attack was carried out by the combined forces of NATO from the territory of Poland, Norway, Turkey and South Korea. At 17 hours 22 minutes Moscow time, Russia launched a retaliatory nuclear missile strike on the cities of Oslo, Warsaw, Gdansk, Ankara, Istanbul, and Seoul. Also, according to incomplete preliminary data, losses among the civilian population amounted to about 12 million people killed and wounded. All the armed forces of Russia are put on alert, a general military mobilization is being carried out ...

    Arriving home, you run to the TV, turn it on - through all the central channels of the GPC - the Ostankino TV tower and the entire television center no longer exist, the local television station broadcasts the possibility of a nuclear attack on your village and the uncle in uniform tells everyone to go down to basements and bomb shelters. A wife and a 5-year-old son come out of the next room with green on their faces (chickenpox). The wife looks in surprise at the television screen, and the son comes up to you and asks in his arms. After a moment of numbness, you climb into the closet for a passport and military ID, take all the money, a mobile phone, charge, run to the refrigerator and throw out everything that comes to hand, even frozen chicken and dumplings from the freezer.

    Then in two sittings you find yourself on the balcony - there are potatoes, cabbage, preservation. In the bread box - bread, in a pencil case - matches, salt, groats, sugar, first aid kit. A 10-liter cylinder of water - not full - is added from the tap. The wife dresses the child, takes linen from the dresser, for some reason hand cream and perfume. You dump all your belongings into a large plaid bag and a plastic bag. Two tin mugs, an aluminum pan, a frying pan, a table knife, a folding knife, several tablespoons and forks, a can opener. Then you take a bunch of underpants, socks and a couple of T-shirts, a knitted hat. The wife is already dressed, pulls out the birth certificate of the child, gold jewelry, a hairbrush, hairpins from the dressing table, takes a couple of photos, a purse, a bottle of deodorant from the coffee table. You went into the bathroom - a razor, soap, shampoo, towels, in the toilet you scooped out all the toilet paper. Two packed bags are already standing in the hallway.

    On the watch 17.51. My wife went into the kitchen, blocked the gas, closed the window. You turned the traffic jams out of the meter and, going out into the staircase, closed the apartment with all the locks. At the entrance steps of the neighbors are already audible. From above, someone is dragging a huge bag with belongings; below, a tinkle of breaking glass is heard - someone dropped a three-liter with cucumbers.
    1. tomket
      tomket 14 December 2012 13: 39
      -1
      amers had a film - the madness of dawn about how they burned our cities with stratofortres, everyone interested
    2. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 14 December 2012 13: 40
      -2
      Maybe enough?
    3. подводник
      подводник 14 December 2012 13: 46
      +1
      Mikhail Shelepov writes:

      You go down to the street, but at the exit from the entrance you come across a district police officer and three in military uniform - the commandant’s office. They stopped you and five other men from your porch. They demanded to present a passport and military ID. You enthusiastically follow their instructions. The wife looks at what is going on, her son looks at the assault rifles on the shoulders of the soldiers. You ask the officer to escort his wife to a nearby bomb shelter (although you yourself don’t know his whereabouts at all) and you promise to come to the assembly point in half an hour. What is he categorically against. He demands that you take with you a “mug, spoon, two-day linen-grub change” and follow him. All your neighbors are already rummaging in their trunks and reluctantly carry out the order. You follow him. The soul is a complete bummer. For some reason, you recall that you did not inform your boss that you won’t go to work tomorrow and instinctively reach for your mobile phone - there’s no connection. Having collected a simple belongings you kiss your wife, son, guilty again, then you apologize to her for not being able to drag heavy bags to the bomb shelter and promise to call or write when you arrive at the unit. Then, with the whole crowd, you go to the buses in the neighboring yard. About 40-50 people have already gathered there. Everyone is silent and smoking.

      Let's go to the collection point. Driving through the city center, you see the crowds of the first looters smashing shops and stalls. Police patrol cars pass them without paying any attention. They have more important things to do - they are going to save themselves. There are already thousands mobilized, standing, sitting, lying on the lawn in front of the entrance. Commissar runs like mad on the corridor, roll calls are heard. Everyone who has passed the mob account is already leaving the side entrance and getting into the trucks. They sit down quickly, cars take them away just as quickly. An hour later your turn came up. Two windows, checking documents, stamp in the registration certificate. At that moment, electricity is cut off throughout the building. A discontented hum rises. A minute later, the emergency generator started working. Everyone is waiting for the computers to start. After a couple of minutes, the entire conveyor started working again.

      So, you go to the old airborne ZIL-130, without an awning, without benches. Everyone in the back is sitting on a rampage. You are 30 people. Among them, almost everyone who is over 30 years old. Where they are taking you do not know. After an hour and a half you are brought to some provincial barracks of a former tank training. It is somewhere in the forest. Some stunted captain commands the construction on the overgrown weeds. The captain makes a stamped speech in a squeaky voice about which enemy is treacherous and sudden and that we have to go through a short course of fire and tactical training. For everything - about everything for 3 days. In the kapterka you are given a smelling mold. The size seems to be yours, but the sleeves are short, you go to the ensign, he finds you a bigger gymnast. Pants are spotty, a khaki gymnast, boots are size 42, although you have 40,5. You put on two pairs of socks. A belt with a five-pointed star and the inscription "DMB 1985 V / H 36654". Everyone who is already in uniform is going to be built. The last time you rummaged through all the pockets of the "citizen", grabbed a trifle and gave your belongings to the locker. You wish you had time to change at home into something simpler. It's a pity the Nike windbreaker and Ekkovo shoes. You look at the clock: 20.24. After a short build, everyone goes to the former canteen. Dry rations were just brought there. You get everything on the list. Boiled water has not yet been delivered. But you don’t want to eat at all. Poke everything in the bag.
      1. подводник
        подводник 14 December 2012 13: 55
        +1
        Mikhail Shelepov writes:

        I spent the night in the gym, as there is no place in the barracks. They gave out mattresses and blankets. No linen, no pillows. It was cold at night - still still mid-April. Almost no one was sleeping. In the morning everyone goes to the canteen. A long queue. You are in the third run. Balance of sauerkraut, millet porridge in combi-fat. On the second - stewed cabbage and millet, tea (even sweet). There is almost no bread. After the "breakfast" building. A lieutenant came - like a company commander. The platoon commander is a young warrant officer. The captain came and proclaimed that you are now a fighter of the Russian army and are subordinate to this lieutenant of a separate motorized rifle regiment, such and such a company. Then it’s “free” and you go to get weapons. You got the AK-74. Pokotsany butt with erased inscriptions. Only "1976" is visible. The machine gun of 1974. The trunk has been replaced. You get three rounds of cartridges in a faded soldier's bag (no gas mask), a bayonet-knife, a flaky flask without a cover.

        After receiving the weapons again, a short formation, roll call and all the formation go to the shooting range. There, on rusty tables, under the supervision of an instructor, incomplete disassembly of the machine for a while. You have one and a half minutes (for how many years it’s already possible to forget how to assemble a striker and spring). Then, having shot growth targets, we also go in the formation to the location of the unit. And there replenishment arrived again.

        Suddenly a siren sounds. A colonel runs out of headquarters and with him two more majors. The colonel yells in a heart-rending voice "1-5th companies - by car!" You remember that you are from the third company, you run to the gym, try to find your thing-bag, you find it and run to the street. There everyone is already climbing onto the onboard Ural, a carriage hitched with an awning is attached to it. You are trying to guess what is underneath, but you can’t. When everyone got in and the cars started off, you see the views of your comrades-in-arms: they, just like you, are perplexed about the destination and the device covered with an awning. A column of 11 Urals, led by an armored personnel carrier, rushes along a dirt road to the south. Dust and shaking are not the worst thing that pests you. Anxiety and obscurity stuck somewhere in the stomach.

        Twenty minutes of a dashing race, and now the convoy is approaching a bridge over some small river. First, a short stop, everyone watches what's behind the bridge. Black smoke is visible and the smell of burned rubber. Your "Ural" slowly goes around the burned BMP, then another one. Puddles of blackened blood, placers of bullets of a heavy machine gun, helmets, shreds of bloodied body armor are visible on the side of the road. Obviously, the dead and wounded have already been collected. The column goes on. But, having driven about a kilometer again, a stop. Arrived. Everyone jumps from cars and without a construction go in a column along the road. There are two burnt T-90s ahead. At one of them a tower was torn off by an explosion, and it lies about twenty meters from it. In the distance, explosions of shells and the popping of gunshots are heard. Two SU-27s rumbled low above their heads. They fly to where explosions are heard. Above the horizon is a huge smoke screen. Your company goes on the run. The uneven thumping of boots and boots is heard, someone coughs and snarls snot. Having run like three hundred meters, the pace of running drops sharply. The company commander drives, but no one listens to him. Soon, everyone took a step. Dyspnea, cough, matyuki.

        Suddenly, a hundred meters ahead of the gap shell. All stone fall to the ground. The lieutenant commands: "all into the forest, clear the road." The whole company, like a herd of hops in three jumps, hides behind the trees. At that moment, two mortar mines explode in the place where your unit was. One can hear the needles boiling - these are hot fragments and the shrapnel filling scatters among the trees. A scream is heard. Still, someone hooked.

        After a minute, everyone goes out to the road, carrying out a wounded soldier with a bloodied leg and face. This is the first loss. The lieutenant orders to stop the bleeding and bandage. Four soldiers carry the wounded to the rear. You thought why you were not given the order to drag him to the rear, because you were there.
        1. подводник
          подводник 14 December 2012 14: 00
          +1
          Meanwhile, from the side where you came from, dust rose over the road - tanks went. Your company has moved off the road to let the column pass. Judging by the huge column of dust, you thought there were a lot of them. But only two combat vehicles passed. And you followed them. Five hundred to six hundred meters away, the forest ended. Ahead of the field and road fork. Having spread out on both sides of the road, the lieutenant ordered to dig in. The radio operator with a long antenna behind him was transmitting something to the "headquarters". You don’t have a sapper shovel and you wait until your comrade opens a “full profile” for himself. It took about forty minutes. The earth is damp, but digging is hard. Having dug a trench approximately knee-deep, you notice that you have plucked corns almost to the point of blood. Then you take dirty socks from the bag’s thing, put them on your hands like mittens and continue to dig.

          Suddenly, somewhere to the right, where the road goes, there was a roar. The enemy began art training. The shells flew in a canopy - the howitzer was beating. Density of fire is not high, and shells lie about fifty meters behind the line of trenches. After a minute, everything stopped. But then explosions rang out again, now ahead. It lasted about two minutes. Everyone sat at the bottom of the trenches, afraid to stick their nose out. The earth trembles, the soil dried in the spring sun crumbles to the bottom of the trench. Finally, everything was quiet. The lieutenant shouted: “Fork!” "Everyone should retreat a hundred meters from the trenches and try to dig in, lively perform!" The whole company, including you, climbed out of the trenches and ran back from the fork, closer to the forest. But not everyone was in time. Just at that moment, art shelling began again. The last three soldiers failed to run away from the trenches and were covered by an explosion. You lay behind a tree and do not raise your head. The explosions are about a hundred meters ahead, but the stupid jingle of fragments on the tree trunks is very strong. This time you’re worse than then on the road. After a minute, everything was quiet again. The lieutenant commands the return to the trenches.

          You cautiously get up, look around and go to your trench. On the way you see a red mess, dug into the ground, pieces of uniforms, a cracked butt of a machine gun. You see, this is one of those three who did not manage to move to the forest. And two more lie ahead. They were not torn, but their bodies were riddled with fragments. One cervical vertebra was killed, and the head is unnaturally thrown back. You try to recognize someone you know in it, but you fail - the whole face is a solid beetroot-colored blister. You don’t remember how you ended up in a trench. Crouched to the bottom. In order not to think about what you just saw, you want to occupy yourself with something. He examined the machine, put it aside. He climbed into a thing-bag, digged, found a mobile phone. Included. The battery is almost empty, there is no connection, but you launch Porn Tetris. After some time, music is already heard from other trenches. Someone turned on mp3. On the left comes the “White Dragonfly of Love”, and on the right is “Lady Gaga”.

          Lieutenant: “Set aside the music, what the hell did you * eat!” A neighing in the trenches is heard, but the music is turned off. The lieutenant again: “Volunteers are needed, it is necessary to conduct reconnaissance deep into the front to a kilometer. Warrant Officer Savelyev, recruit a group of five people. And piss along the road. Do not join the battle. Sergeant Karpenko binoculars. The task takes 20 minutes to complete. ” Aren't you what you need most? Saveliev - young, about 25 years old, "ensign" walked along the trenches and quickly recruited "volunteers." You are lucky, he did not choose you. All six went forward along the road, lining up behind the ensign in a convoy. They quickly disappeared over the hill. About three minutes after that, machine gun bursts and several explosions were heard from behind the hill. It lasted about twenty seconds, and then it calmed down. Everyone who was next to you stuck their heads out of the trenches and began to gaze like gophers in the direction from which the peals of a short battle were heard.
          1. подводник
            подводник 14 December 2012 14: 03
            0
            Twenty minutes passed, but no one returned. Another hour passed. Nobody. The lieutenant on the radio tried to contact the headquarters, but no one answered. From somewhere ahead, there was the chatter of a helicopter. He was approaching. All instinctively hid in the trenches. A moment later, an AH-1G helicopter in NATO coloring flashed from behind a hill on a low-level flight. About 20 meters above the trenches, raising swirls of dust. And just as suddenly disappeared behind the forest. You really couldn’t consider it. The lieutenant with square eyes jumped out of the trench and shouted: "To all, fuck you, into the woods, right now we will be fucking!" And again you ran into the forest. Behind you already hear the rumble of a helicopter returning in a circle. As soon as you ran into the forest you heard a loud crack of machine guns and a squeal of bullets. With a whistle, the helicopter swept over empty trenches, uplifting earthen fountains from bullets. After one run, the helicopter flew away just as quickly.

            You slowly went out to your trench. It was evening. Somewhere high in the sky flew the NATO "drone." At 22.00 the air temperature dropped to zero. The lieutenant forbade to kindle fire and everyone froze like dogs. You, to forget about the cold, with your numbed hands, broke bread and stuffed it into your mouth, washed down with ice water from a flask. And by midnight the very same AH-1G flew in. And you finally understood what a complete pi * dec. With a temperature sensor on board, he flipped you like saigas on a safari. Out of the company, only you, the lieutenant and two more guys, of those younger ones managed to run away, and even then you were pinched for a long time between the trees. And when everything was already shaking and buggy from fear, you found the courage in yourself to get out of the tree and just aim. Three short bursts of two or three shots ... A helicopter with a long howl and whistle fell a hundred meters from the forest, directly onto the road. The pilot was not able to land a helicopter with a damaged course rotor.

            Explosion, as shown in Hollywood films, you did not see. Just sparks, pillars of smoke, barely visible in the darkness of the night. A minute later, you plucked up courage and carefully crawled to the fallen car. One could hear the hiss of an overheated engine and the groan of the pilot, the smell of burnt electrical insulation. You stood up to your full height and with all your might, backhand hit the pilot in the face with the butt. He instantly fell silent. Then you grabbed the pistol from his bloody hand and dragged the pilot out of the cockpit. Pulling your cell phone out of your pocket, you illuminated his broken face. This is how you first saw the enemy. It was a young girl in a dark flight suit. Her blonde hair came out from under her helmet and smelled of perfume! You're shocked. But soon the shock was replaced by fervent, merciless hatred. You threw her near the helicopter and started kicking her in the stomach. The lieutenant came running and with difficulty pulled you away from this damned bitch, but still you managed to hook her on the face for the last time with your boot. "This is from my Dimka! The kid asked you to say hello, bitch!" You gradually calmed down. “At least I’ve warmed up,” you thought, and your soul became somehow calmer.

            This was your first fight, from which you emerged alive, from which you emerged victorious. And you will have ahead ... maybe a few more days.
            1. tomket
              tomket 14 December 2012 14: 25
              0
              In general, there was never a shortage of volunteers in the exercises, well, although if the author has a lady gaga in the trenches and a dragonfly of love, it is surprising why they didn’t hold a gay parade right away, in emergency situations a person starts to think with his head and not with a fifth point, if the cobra it’s most likely that the Marine Corps flies, from where it could land in Belarus and fly so far, it’s not like amers to fly over the battlefield as if they were on the Mi-24, he himself wrote that the su-27 pair went very well, did they disappear? or they didn’t see the cobra7so there are radars, two tanks much can not raise dust, he saw the bread they can not be issued because the biscuits for drones we MANPADS arrow issued motorized infantry, and of the author of a recent beating nit if wounded.
            2. His
              His 14 December 2012 16: 43
              +2
              Fees are always fun. Now no one will refuse to fight for their homeland, I go to the rocking chair and I see normal guys and girls. We will beat with a shovel, but between the eyes.
  38. tomket
    tomket 14 December 2012 13: 58
    +1
    In general, it is described quite incorrectly, because at the working out of the mobilization we were given a needle-like shape, and if you yourself start to blunt with the sizes, they will prompt you promptly, the belt with the inscription dmb could not get there, in principle, the conscripts tried to steal the mobile form and donate their own, but they were quickly calculated, minus one for the boot — they were not divided, well, in general, everything was tied to the ears, when there was nothing left of Moscow, few captains were capable of learned tediousness, not all of us have robots, and some kind of pity Nike and Ecco Aftor shows his petty skin, although it may be honest.
  39. thatupac
    thatupac 14 December 2012 14: 03
    -5
    In the event of war, we are fired. Just like there were krants to Russian lands and princes during the fragmented Kievan Rus, when Batu Khan came to rustle them. Right now, it’s for itself. And I'm not very sure that the inhabitants of Siberia and the Far East will go to die for the same Moscow and St. Petersburg, who live mostly for the money of other regions. There is no unifying force. Kill one by one. It will be like the Tatar-Mongol yoke. Fact.
  40. Anthrax
    Anthrax 14 December 2012 14: 06
    -2
    Apparently only we are preparing for war
    the size of the German army for financial reasons will be gradually reduced from the current 250 thousand to 185 thousand; 10 thousand of them will undergo special training to perform tasks outside the Federal Republic of Germany and will be able to be involved in foreign missions. At present, the number of the military contingent participating in missions abroad is approximately 7 thousand people. Presenting the concept of reforms for the Bundeswehr, Thomas de Mezieres substantiated its necessity by the fact that the armed forces of the FRG "became too immobile over the decades", and much in the army is being done in the old-fashioned way.

    The largest reductions will affect ground forces, which will be reduced by almost half. It is assumed that 54 infantrymen, one artillery battalion, one airborne regiment of 500 men and three tank battalions will remain in the Bundeswehr, each of which will be armed with 2 Leopard-44 heavy tanks.
    .
    http://gubkin.info/politics/89370-bundesver-preobrazuetsya-v-professionalnuyu-ar
    miyu.html
    US Air Force write off 286 aircraft


    The US Air Force plans to get rid of 286 units of aircraft as part of a reduction in military spending, including 123 combat and 133 military transport aircraft. It is reported by Aviation Week with reference to the Minister of the US Air Force Michael Donley (Michael Donley).

    According to Donley, the Air Force intends to write off seven to six tactical and one training out of 60 fighter squadrons. Previously reported the cancellation of five squadrons of attack aircraft A-10 Thunderbolt II. As Donley clarified, out of 123 aircraft to be decommissioned, 102 will be on the A-10C and 21 on the obsolete modification of the F-16 Fighting Falcon. After reducing the total number of A-10 Thunderbolt II, 246 vehicles will remain in service
    .
    http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2012/02/03/229138.html
    The mistress of the seas "becomes the" queen of the sandbox "

    The British army is waiting for the most severe reduction since 1957. 16 thousand military men will be dismissed, hundreds of tanks and thousands of armored vehicles, dozens of aircraft, several submarines and surface ships will be reduced.

    The greatest reductions await the Royal Air Force. They will lose 7 thousand people and 295 combat fighters. About 200 combat vehicles will remain in them, which is comparable to the level of 1914.

    The entire fleet of Tornado fighter-bombers will be decommissioned to save 7,5 billion euros over the next five years. Although earlier these planes were planned to be left in service until 2025. Also, supplies of Typhoons will be reduced - in total there will be 107 instead of 160, and also due to the third series. For the sake of economy, they will be placed at only one air base. The entire fleet of 36 S-130 transport aircraft will be replaced by 22 A400M aircraft. But this is not an option - there are big problems with the production of this machine. So aviation can be left without reliable transport in Afghanistan and other explosive places.

    In the fleet, the former "mistress of the seas", there are more admirals than warships. But the Royal Navy will lose two more submarines, three landing ships, a significant part of the frigates and destroyers, 2100 sailors and marines. The financing of the construction of the second aircraft carrier of the new project is questionable, and the clouds have thickened over the first. But exactly two of the three available light aircraft carriers of the Invincible type will be written off. The cancellation of one strategic Vengard-class missile carrier and a reduction in the construction program for the Dering air defense destroyers are likely.

    http://poslezavtra.com.ua/dengi-konchilisevropa-razoruzhaetsya/
    1. Beck
      Beck 14 December 2012 14: 19
      -5
      Quote: ANTHRAX
      Apparently only we are preparing for war


      What you brought, do not want to admit only the patriots. I did not want and do not want to fight Europe. She armed herself only with the threats of the Cold War. The main threat to this and future China. There and the main focus.
      1. Anthrax
        Anthrax 14 December 2012 14: 28
        -4
        Two-thirds of China’s tank fleet clones and modernized clones of the Soviet T-54 arr. 1946
        The most massive aircraft in China is a clone of the Soviet MiG-21 of the early 50s and modifications.
        China's nuclear potential is 4-5% of Russia's.
        The tower on the ground of militarism is demolished at our top.
  41. tomket
    tomket 14 December 2012 14: 08
    -1
    again, it seems that the action takes place where the thread is in Belarus, because on the border, I agree with the food, everything will be like that, only there will be stew, and most likely the shares in green briquettes are dry, the machines will most likely be new, since the first wave of mobilization what’s missing and there are enough weapons in the warehouses and new flags too, again it’s not clear where they are rushing and who will send them at all since usually the regular units are fighting while the mobilized are being dumped, t-90 in our army there’s nothing to burn like packs on the sidelines, and such a layman is unlikely whether t-90 is distinguished from t-72, for example, oh well, okay, nah, su-27 fly no su-25 or su-24 it’s unclear, apparently like flies to honey. Yes, and in general it’s clear that another minute and the author will turn around and run eat pies home, apparently show an example HOW TO PROTECT THE HOMELAND
  42. Ratibor12
    Ratibor12 14 December 2012 14: 52
    +1
    Article - vyser on the topic "Mustache is gone!" and "Grab your bags - the station is leaving!" Few facts, only emotions. A set of repeated slogans. Whoever likes to tremble, be afraid - read and reread. Print and hang over your bed.
  43. Stiletto
    Stiletto 14 December 2012 14: 56
    0
    If you knew that the money would definitely be protected and not stolen, you could create something like a national support fund for the Russian Army with the mandatory transfer there of a portion of the funds of EACH individual or legal entity, or introduce a special tax - 5 percent of the salary. Even for 100 rubles from 100 millions of inhabitants (given that there will always be deviators) per month, it would be possible to significantly rearm the aircraft and increase their potential.
  44. Setrac
    Setrac 14 December 2012 15: 41
    +2
    I want to add that from that side there will be no superheroes, in NATO, and in China there are special forces and other professionals, but there aren’t enough for you, a simple burgher will run out for you and release the entire clip from you m-16 and never will not fall, and you will fall into it in the second turn, because you are in the trench, and he will not, because the NATO army is not taught to dig trenches, then there will be a second attack, which will be choked because half of the soldiers will jam the M-16.
  45. Bekzat
    Bekzat 14 December 2012 16: 59
    -2
    And yet I have a question: where then did all these generals and admirals look? Really it was impossible to reach out, even to Putin? All this is proof of a BIG CUT, sacrificing the defense, but they got green and are slowly washed away to the west. But nothing, someday, when a simple private takes captive all these corrupt skins !!!
    1. karimbaev
      karimbaev 14 December 2012 17: 23
      +2
      Bekzat,

      I think without permission from above it could not have done. Why is the Accounts Chamber, auditors, the military prosecutor's office and the tribunal for what?
  46. Alf
    Alf 14 December 2012 20: 20
    +1
    But NATO will not fight with us. What for ? Now, a radically different military doctrine has been adopted in Bucksland. According to it, there is no need to fight the enemy country with the armed forces, enough internal methods to change the government and everything, do what you want with this country. As at the moment with Russia. Now they will conduct the 2nd wave of privatization, transfer the enterprises into the hands of the Yusovites and ... everything, and there is no need to fight. And Putin-Medvedev and other freaks will carry out their orders. And for the population, an illusion of Russia's independence will be created.
    Quote: Bekzat
    And yet I have a question: where then did all these generals and admirals look? Really it was impossible to reach out, even to Putin?

    It is enough to recall who put the stool on this post, who directly stated to the question on TV about the punishment of Serdyuk that it’s impossible to take their own and the question will disappear by itself.
  47. Bars90
    Bars90 15 December 2012 14: 52
    0
    The slavish seller of sofas actually destroyed the country's armed forces. Punishment-shot! And I will not give up my words ...
  48. Anthrax
    Anthrax 15 December 2012 20: 52
    0
    Last year, military service in the Bundeswehr was canceled.
    That's what it was, for 9 months with 21 days off
    I had the pleasure of spending 9 months in kindergarten with payment, with allowance and uniform. This kindergarten is proudly called the Bundeswehr and is a holiday home combined with a playground for young and not very, and even old children. German army, gee. .................................
    Service is heavy and difficult. Many new recruits suffer and miss their mother very much and go to the barracks priest, who also plays the role of a psychologist and accepts all soldiers regardless of religion. He has a voice and may demand this or that, for example, to let the next slobber go home for a week due to mental illness (and this despite the fact that every weekend the “soldiers” are released home - on Friday at twelve “end of service” and start on Monday at six in the morning, the fare is paid by the state)
    Business day looked like this: from five in the morning breakfast, whoever wants to go, who doesn't want to sleep. The main thing is that the construction, which at six o'clock everyone stood up.

    After the roll call, the order followed: in the rooms and wait for further orders, which sometimes had to wait for weeks. Everyone dispersed and engaged in all kinds of nonsense. Who was asleep, who watched the telly, who played the prefix (everything could be brought to the barracks), who read, who just ... And one valiant equivalent to the ensign (spy) crept along the corridor, burst into the room like a hurricane and wreaked terror, punishing everyone, who did not behave appropriately - sitting at a table in a chair waiting for an order. Forced to sweep and wash a staircase or corridor, collect candy wrappers on the parade ground, etc. But he had little imagination, so the corridor and stairs shone, and wrappers were worth its weight in gold.

    Then at 17:00 an order followed: the end of the service! And cameramas merrily rushed where. Some at the disco, some at the cinema, some bought with booze. The only thing that really oppressed the fact that you can’t smoke and thump in the room. For this it was necessary to go either to a special room on our floor - with a pool table and tennis table, or to a bar located on the territory of the barracks.

    On Friday after breakfast, jogging three kilometers in sports uniform. The eldest from our call is Momzen, he is 25 years old, and he seems to be a little crazy. On a run, he amazes and scares people, but I and the Pole are delighted. An order was issued to run, time was detected - a circle of 400 meters. Momsen runs through the first lap, equals the non-runners at the stopwatch and shouts on the run: “I ...! Not....! I can...! Run away ...! More!!!" Unter in three words advises him to remain silent and to run on, and Momsen runs, and suddenly begins to sob. Right on the run, and it looks rather strange, like running, a long sob, then a long y-s-s-s-s-s, then again a sob and s-s-s-s-s. So the whole circle runs, sobbing into the voice, and equals again with the non-commissioner. While the non-starter, not believing his eyes and ears, stares at him, he runs on.

    Unter awakens from lethargy and yells: "Momzen, don’t run if you can’t!" But Momsen stubbornly runs on. And sobs. Unther rushes in pursuit, catches up with him, runs beside him and shouts: “Momzen, stop!”, And so they peacefully run side by side in a semicircle, until the non-commissioner finally realizes that this can go on for a long time and with a soft gesture takes Momzen under the elbow and carries away him away from the treadmill and carefully takes him into the room. The rest of the day, Momzen lies in his bunk in his room and does not talk to anyone. Compassionate Germans offer him a drink or a talk, but he only shakes his head.

    http://voprosik.net/sluzhba-v-bundesver ... a-soldata/
  49. COBOK
    COBOK 16 December 2012 15: 27
    0
    To shoot, to hang ... Friends, this is not an option. This is a half measure, their destruction (physical or as an official) has already paid off. The main weapon against this fraternity is a soldering iron and an iron, and only then, if it is repented to be hung or whatever ...
    The people need not moral satisfaction, but the return of what was stolen, taken out and destroyed. After half an hour of "communication", multibillion "investments" will flow like a river into Russia, enough for re-equipment and for social programs and for the restoration of production, yes, and enough to wash it wink

    And the punishment is stupid (I wrote why above)
  50. Begemot
    Begemot 18 December 2012 10: 53
    0
    It is frightening that every time Russia was not ready for war because the army was plundered, destroyed and humiliated by officials. Now is just such a time, God forbid !!!