Military Review

Ukrainian-Russian Union - what is America afraid of?

372
Ukrainian-Russian Union - what is America afraid of?The American government once again makes every effort to push foreheads Russia and Ukraine. The Americans explain their actions very simply: rapprochement with Russia can bring great harm to Ukraine. Therefore, European integration in this case looks much more attractive. But what really happens? And what are the true intentions of the official American government?

About two decades ago, the world got the idea that all the most important issues and problems of world politics are solved only with the permission and with the direct participation of the United States of America. It is clear that there is no smoke without fire, and such confidence did not arise by chance, because after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the United States remained the only superpower in the world community.

When the European continent was just beginning its path to development, and China was not yet as powerful a state as it is at the moment, the US currency was the only reserve currency in the world. And if the US government decided that any state “behaves” itself incorrectly, then it was doomed, despite the positions of the rest of the world community, and even more so without taking into account the opinions of the population of the victim state.

The strength and power of America was particularly pronounced in Eastern Europe, as well as throughout the post-Soviet space. And in most cases, the most important in these countries was not at all the official government headed by the president and the head of the cabinet of ministers, but the American ambassador. Otherwise it could not be, because it was not a simple politician, but a representative of the interests of the American government, the undoubted global leader.

What is happening now? According to the former US ambassador to Ukraine, Stephen Peifer, the rapprochement between Ukraine and Russia, instead of European integration, will harm first of all Ukraine itself. This was reported in one of the interviews given immediately after the statement by the Ambassador of Ukraine to the Russian Federation, Vladimir Yelchenko, appeared in the press about the possibility of Ukraine joining the Customs Union, under certain circumstances.

Pifer is sure that most of the Ukrainian population does not want to become part of Russia. He also noted that in some aspects such a union may be unprofitable and not very favorable for Europe, but not critical. Apparently, in the words of the ex-ambassador there is a hint that the main strategic task of the States is to prevent the formation of an independent state strategic education in the post-Soviet space that would be able to pursue an independent policy independent of America. Paul Wolfowitz, who at the time was an advisor to the US president on security issues, spoke about this 20 years ago.

On the one hand, such statements can only be considered the subjective opinion of a single adviser, of which there were many. But on the other hand, all this time, American presidents have listened to the opinions of completely different advisers and assistants. As a result, the foreign policy of the United States of America was aimed at "promoting" the establishment of democracy and economic development in various parts of the world.

At the same time, United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also makes assumptions similar to Wolfowitz. According to her, a certain Sovietization of the region has recently been observed. But it will be no longer the USSR, but the Customs Union, or the union of the states of Eurasia. Clinton is confident that such a union is unprofitable for America, so Washington will do everything possible to slow down the process or prevent its implementation altogether. It is noteworthy that the US Secretary of State made a similar statement shortly before the meeting with S. Lavrov. Moreover, it was made on the same day when the “Magnitsky Act” was ratified.

In addition, Hillary Clinton noted that violations of the principles of democracy and human rights are increasingly occurring in Russia, and exactly the same thing happens in most countries of the former Soviet Union. According to her, the progress that America was counting on after the collapse of the Union is not, and it is not easy to resist.

Clinton has commented on all statements by the Russian political leadership, in particular, the press secretary of the head of state, D. Peskov. According to him, all the judgments of the American politician regarding integration are erroneous. According to him, the situation that is currently observed on the territory of the former USSR is a new type of integration based on economic convergence and interaction, and nothing more.

In addition, V.Putin also repeatedly stated that the development of relations in the Eurasian space does not imply the restoration of the Soviet Union.

There is no doubt that the restoration of even a semblance of the USSR is possible. However, judging by Clinton’s statement, America opposes any attempts at integration in the post-Soviet space. From this we can make a definite conclusion that in Russia such statements will be perceived extremely negatively. According to the chairman of the State Duma Committee A.Pushkov, with such statements the Americans can only achieve even greater tension in the relationship. In addition, he stated that neither the creation of the Customs Union, nor the Eurasian Union, is in the competence of the American foreign policy department. It is about creating an economic union that will not threaten anyone. Similar formations exist in Africa, and in Europe, and in Asia. Therefore, the isolation of the Eurasian Union as a potential adversary with which America intends to fight can be viewed as hostile towards Russia. Thus, we no longer have to talk about the reset policy, and the confrontational tone of the American government can be viewed as some kind of ultimatum to Russia.

Therefore, according to Pushkov, the Russian government will be forced to reconsider the prospects for cooperation with the United States of America in precisely those areas that are of particular importance to Washington.

Undoubtedly, in this situation, much depends on the subjectivity of perception. So, for example, the American ex-ambassador is not sure that Ukraine wants to become part of Russia. But this is not about this. The Customs Union is, first of all, closer cooperation in the economic sphere.

At the same time, according to a survey conducted jointly by the Russian research organization Levada Center and KIIS (Kiev International Institute of Sociology), the percentage of Ukrainians who are good to Russia has slightly decreased. And if at the beginning of the year these were 86 percent, now their 83 percent. It is not surprising that the majority of Ukrainians who are positive towards the neighboring state live in the southern and eastern regions (91 and 90 percent, respectively). Least of all maintain relations with Russia in the western region (about 63 percent of residents). In the central regions, this figure is about 87 percent.

At the same time, as far as the Russian population is concerned, over the course of the year, its attitude towards Ukrainians has significantly improved. So, at present, the percentage of Russians positively disposed towards Ukraine and Ukrainians is 74 percent (versus 64 percent at the beginning of the year). But after all, a bad or good attitude is far from important, there are much more important categories.

So, in particular, both the Ukrainian and the Russian population for the most part want both states to be independent, but at the same time maintain friendly relations and open borders, without customs barriers and visas. In Ukraine, about 72 percent of the population supports this view, in Russia - about 60 percent. At the same time, in Ukraine this number has increased by three percent lately, in Russia it has remained almost unchanged. At the same time, in Russia the number of those who would like the relations between the two states to be more isolated decreased by about 6 percent (from 20 to 14 percent); in Ukraine, this figure is less significant (it decreased from 13 to 11 percent) .

Thus, it is obvious that the population of both states wants closer relations between the two countries, and the political leadership should not ignore such a desire.

But in this case, the question arises: who then is not profitable rapprochement between Ukraine and Russia? The answer can be only one. The US Department, in particular, its foreign office, "is in error" regarding the fact that the will of the majority of residents of the Ukrainian and Russian states does not coincide with the long-term interests of Washington ...

The Customs Union is one of the stages of economic integration, which allows to minimize the barriers that hinder the growth of trade between states. And in a crisis of world economic model, only regional economic integration is the only way out for many states. But does this suit America?

It is obvious that the US government has seen a real strong competitor in the Customs Union, so it will make many attempts to hinder its activities.

Materials used:
http://www.pravda.ru/world/formerussr/ukraine/27-11-2012/1136252-usa-0/
Author:
372 comments
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  1. predator.3
    predator.3 13 December 2012 08: 16
    +23
    “Russia can be either an empire or a democracy, but not both at the same time ... Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be an empire, with Ukraine, bribed and then subordinate, Russia automatically turns into an empire”

    Zbignev Brzezinski. Premature partnership
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 13 December 2012 08: 34
      +32
      Quote: predator.3
      Zbigniew Brzezinski

      This clown, together with the entire US administration, can go to hell. Whatever the last years of the United States planned in the republics of the former USSR, almost all efforts went to waste. They will try to prevent Ukraine, but the more they interfere in the process, the more America will worse.What are the United States and what its interference in Ukraine’s affairs leads to, people remember from the time of Mr. Yushchenko. hi
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 13 December 2012 10: 13
        +15
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Zbigniew Brzezinski
        This clown along with the entire US administration

        Brzezinski is by no means a clown, but a very influential person. An adversary cannot be underestimated. If he says something, it means the direction of the world elite, the US and their satellites are the expressors of interests at this stage. And they are used to pursuing their It’s just that they don’t become presidents in America and do not occupy a place in the administration, each has its own role.
        1. ZKBM-BUT
          ZKBM-BUT 13 December 2012 14: 48
          +8
          I will reunite your conflicting opinions to receive the truth. and I will say this - Brzezinski influential clown in the theater of the absurd. wink
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 13 December 2012 14: 50
            +14
            Quote: ZKBM-BUT
            Brzezinski influential clown.

            Remember the story - the most influential people under the kings were jesters
            1. Homer
              Homer 13 December 2012 15: 43
              +11
              Quote: Ruslan67
              Remember the story - the most influential people under the kings were jesters

              From this we can conclude from whom the queens were born !!! drinks
              1. Quiet
                Quiet 14 December 2012 17: 36
                0
                From this we can conclude from whom the queens were born !!!


                Set off 1000% !!!!!
          2. alexng
            alexng 14 December 2012 06: 29
            +5
            Columbus, your mother!
            Why does the whole world have to
            suffer because of your curiosity ?!
        2. vyatom
          vyatom 14 December 2012 12: 16
          +2
          Bzhesinski was swept aside by Soviet soldiers during the liberation of Poland. Here he is mad about Russia. But as one author says after the complete destruction of the Polish Anders corps in Italy by the Vlasovites: the Russian God is stronger than the Polish. "And the Psheks have always been the most rotten people.
      2. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 13 December 2012 14: 00
        +2
        I WOULD LIKE TO!
      3. Ruslan
        Ruslan 13 December 2012 16: 21
        +1
        How long can an alliance exist - which lies only in economic gain? Especially since the West has more economic opportunities. Alas, for the time being, Russia in its ideological and financial system is no different from the West and until you create your own system based on socially just community, then no economic unions will help Russia or Russia, and if they do, it will certainly not for long.
        1. Lavr75
          Lavr75 14 December 2012 10: 28
          -2
          The best marriage is marriage of convenience ....
          1. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 14 December 2012 12: 04
            +3
            Quote: Lavr75
            The best marriage is marriage of convenience ....

            Love and prostitution are two different things.
            1. vyatom
              vyatom 14 December 2012 12: 17
              0
              Do you like to be smart in Ukraine instead of doing business.
            2. Lavr75
              Lavr75 25 December 2012 10: 42
              -1
              According to the psychology of marriages, prisoners of convenience are one of the long-lasting and strong, and by love, well, you get used to your partner, immunity will be developed for hormones injected into the blood when it appears and then damn it ..
    2. YARY
      YARY 13 December 2012 10: 13
      +3
      Old Russophobe! Ancient enemy.
      Listening to him is like reading Volkicher Beobacher.
      But it’s for sure either an empire or crap-although you can take the best from both to and from there.
    3. Nikaviz
      Nikaviz 13 December 2012 11: 01
      +32
      Russia !!! As it was from Kievan Russi ... it remained .. the story cannot be turned ... (although this is not the first or not the last time they are trying to do it ...) I have a father from the western Ukraine Uzhgorod, my mother from Voronezh .. and relatives that there is here ... MUCH. And most importantly, we think the same way ... And politics is a MANURE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bully
      1. ser86
        ser86 13 December 2012 11: 50
        -7
        The variety of haplotypes in Ukraine is the same as in Russia or Poland, and they all fit on a haplotype tree with a common ancestor who lived 4850 ± 500 years

        From your point of view, the story appeared before the Slavs))
        1. 755962
          755962 13 December 2012 12: 34
          +8
          Quote: ser86
          From your point of view, the story appeared before the Slavs))

          Mikhail Zadornov: Rurik. Lost past
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P68ONoLGswE
          1. Nose
            Nose 13 December 2012 14: 23
            +13
            Quote: 755962
            Mikhail Zadornov: Rurik. Was lost

            Zadornov yesterday, one might say, rushed to the amrazura. I can imagine what slops the adherents of the so-called "official" version of history will flood with! yes
            1. Quiet
              Quiet 14 December 2012 17: 41
              +4
              The PEOPLE helped him raise money for the film - the PEOPLE will help and repel the attacks !!!!
          2. ser86
            ser86 13 December 2012 15: 53
            0
            Already looked
            I relied on the results of excavations, etymology, toponymy of words, on annals, myths, legends.
          3. ser86
            ser86 13 December 2012 17: 48
            -2
            In the Zadornov film, Anatoly Klesov also says what I described above))
          4. Quit
            Quit 16 December 2012 01: 33
            -1
            Zadornov is certainly a good satirist, but it is better for specialists to deal with history. We already have too many myths, why produce new ones.
      2. ser86
        ser86 13 December 2012 15: 57
        0
        About 115 thousand years ago, the last Quaternary glaciation began on planet Earth. This ice age is called differently everywhere. For Siberia, it is customary to call it “Zyryansk”, in the Alps - “Wurm”, in North America - “Wisconsin”. It lasted a little over 100 thousand years and ended by historical standards recently - only 10 thousand years ago.
        smile
      3. dirty trick
        dirty trick 13 December 2012 17: 40
        +24
        Quote: NIKAVIZ
        I have a father from the western Ukraine Uzhhorod, a mother from Voronezh .. and relatives that there is something here ... MUCH. And most importantly, we think the same way ... And politics is a MANURE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        + dear. politicians can say anything, the main thing is that we, ordinary people, remember:
        1. Dikremnij
          Dikremnij 13 December 2012 20: 32
          +11
          Ukrainian-Russian Union - what is America afraid of?
          The fact that noting this union, the next morning at least a flood laughing
        2. Van
          Van 13 December 2012 21: 21
          +5
          Quote: dirty trick
          + dear. politicians can say anything, the main thing is that we, ordinary people, remember:

          I’ll try to paraphrase Malech: Politicians can say anything, the main thing is that they remember with whose help they occupied such a position, and that the people who elected them, they would know and could, keep the politicians in black gloves. lol
      4. bart74
        bart74 13 December 2012 18: 06
        0
        Here I agree with you ABSOLUTELY!
      5. pakukr
        pakukr 13 December 2012 20: 49
        +9
        My friend, Uzhhorod - this is not Western Ukraine, this is Transcarpathia, there always lived Russians, or Ruthenians, who were recognized by the UN, but Ukrainian authorities do not recognize. And Western Ukraine is Eastern Poland, mistakenly joined by Stalin to Ukraine, the center of Russophobia, Galicia. There they beat the veterans of the Great Patriotic War, destroy the graves of fallen heroes even of the First World War, put restaurants in place of the memorials. So not everything is so pink. An outspoken fascist, a participant in the beating of veterans on May 9, 2011 in Lviv, was elected deputy chairman of the Supreme Council of Ukraine.
        1. Dikremnij
          Dikremnij 13 December 2012 21: 05
          +4
          As for Galychyna, you are right, but not in everything, there are also a lot of normal and decent people, and as for the nationalists, there are enough of them everywhere. It just so happened that Lviv became the center of Russophobia. As for Transcarpathia, there are a lot of nationalities living there, mainly Madars (Hungarians), novels (Gypsies), but most of them are of course Ukrainians. And yes, indeed in Transcarpathia the Russian-speaking population is treated better than in Lviv.
          1. Pablo
            Pablo 14 December 2012 16: 48
            0
            There cannot be many Ukrainians on the "western Ukraine", since Stalin called the "western Ukraine", the ancient territory of Poland, to justify the annexation of these territories to the USSR, IT'S NOT EVEN SLAVS, LOOK AT Tyagnibok AND OTHER EVIL PEDIKS ..
    4. Dnepropetrovsk
      Dnepropetrovsk 14 December 2012 00: 56
      +1
      He put the article a minus, because Military Review writes better about military topics than about politics.
    5. alexdol
      alexdol 14 December 2012 19: 30
      +2
      predator.3 (1) RU "" Russia can be either an empire or a democracy, ... "
      -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
      --
      First, I will say about "democracy" - it never was and never will be! So there's nothing to talk about! All these are "f-kie" bikes! And now about the "empire". I, and many others, are in favor of restoring the Russian Empire within the borders before 1917! And in that EMPIRE there was no "Ukraine"! I have met here arguments that Russia does not need it in the form that Ukraine has today ?! It's just nonsense! I strongly disagree with that! Here's an example of changing mentality! They refuse not from "Ukraine", but from part of RUSSIA! After all, Ukraine was created by the "Jews" after the revolution of 17, and together with it, they created a hotbed of tension in the future, for example, today! Imagine, Russia was smashed to pieces, and our enemies are hatching such plans! And of course there will be those who will say that, for example, the Far East is "obscene" to them, etc.? Maybe the question should be posed differently - to return the primordially Russian lands HOME? And this just has to do with the current "Ukraine" ...
      And on the opinion of the Americans - do not care! And to please them to anything! Stop looking at them.
    6. pakukr
      pakukr 14 December 2012 22: 36
      +3
      What other union with scum who mock even at the graves of fallen soldiers !!! Near the village of Mshan, Zborovsky district, Ternopil region, July 6-7, 1917, the last battle of the Petrov brigade took place as part of the Preobrazhensky and Semenovsky guards regiments, the first regiments of the regular Russian army. More than one thousand guardsmen died. The Petrovsky brigade held the defense against superior enemy forces for 48 hours, while weapons depots were taken out or destroyed in the rear.
      The Germans buried the brave guardsmen and placed Orthodox crosses on their graves, and the Ukrainian nationalists destroyed all the signs of the burial of heroes. The Russians can neither investigate the history of burials, nor establish at least a symbolic monument to the guards (cenotaph). But among the guards who were buried here, there are also Ukrainians, like Captain Andrei Kondratenko, the son of General Kondratenko Roman Isidorovich, the hero of defense of Port Arthur. Galicians are simply not human.
  2. donchepano
    donchepano 13 December 2012 08: 23
    +18
    the people of Russia and Ukraine are fraternal and will only be more powerful from the union and will undoubtedly benefit
    Naturally, the enemies of the unification will continue their dirty work of driving a wedge and also pull out all sorts of contradictions by inflating the elephant from the front sight. Enemies - Anglo-Saxons, world government and internal enemies.
    Gotta be wiser
    1. nikoli25
      nikoli25 13 December 2012 09: 42
      +10
      I agree, we have common roots. The artificially divided BROTHER people cannot develop in different ways.
    2. 11Goor11
      11Goor11 13 December 2012 12: 53
      +14
      Now, if right now to hold a referendum on joining the Customs Union, what would be the result?
      It is not surprising that the majority of Ukrainians positively inclined towards the neighboring state live in the southern and eastern regions (91 and 90 percent, respectively). Least of all do they maintain relations with Russia in the western region (about 63 percent of the inhabitants). In central regions, the figure is approximately 87 percent.

      Take even the western region - 63%, is this nothing more than enough?
      1. Nose
        Nose 13 December 2012 14: 25
        +7
        Quote: 11Goor11
        Take even the western region - 63%, is this nothing more than enough?

        But this, admittedly, surprised! hi
        1. mda
          mda 13 December 2012 15: 19
          +2
          Quote: Nose
          But this, admittedly, surprised!

          And I probably wanted a freebie. There is no LAZ industry and I stayed
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 01
            -8
            mda,
            Study the structure of export-import of Ukraine and the Russian Federation. And calm down ... :)
            1. mda
              mda 13 December 2012 16: 47
              +4
              Quote: Hunter
              Study the structure of export-import of Ukraine and the Russian Federation. And calm down ... :)

              Again you ?! Well, finally, otherwise I miss Russophobia
            2. Rink
              Rink 13 December 2012 23: 32
              +6
              HunterAre you a Ukrainian nationalist?
              But why didn’t they take a zipper for themselves? not patriotic somehow for the ideological ...

              Or in the language the owner deflection counts better? So already they would write in the original - Hunter ...
              Well, to make it clearer.
            3. Don
              Don 14 December 2012 15: 09
              +3
              Quote: Hunter
              Study the structure of export-import of Ukraine and the Russian Federation. And calm down ... :)

              You would have studied it yourself.
          2. nnz226
            nnz226 13 December 2012 19: 09
            +13
            LAZ also breathes in incense. he does not make buses, and trolleybuses are almost on the knee by the piece. Was 2 years ago in Lviv, immediately could not understand what was wrong on the streets? The architecture is in place, so is the transport. Began to look closely - so what? young (under 25) and old (over 55) are walking. And where is the working age? I drew the attention of a companion to this fact, and he resolved the issue with one phrase: "So these (ages from 25 to 55 years old) are all on work!" That's all. Therefore, the Westerners also want an economic union with Russia. Unlike Tajiks and other Asians, they have specialties and education, and in gayrops they can only be taken out from under old people, and in Russia they can offer qualified work.
            1. mda
              mda 13 December 2012 19: 24
              +3
              Quote: nnz226
              LAZ also breathes in incense. he does not make buses, and trolleybuses are almost on the knee by the piece. Was 2 years ago in Lviv, immediately could not understand what was wrong on the streets? The architecture is in place, so is the transport. Began to look closely - so what? young (under 25) and old (over 55) are walking. And where is the working age? I drew the attention of a companion to this fact, and he resolved the issue with one phrase: "So these (ages from 25 to 55 years old) are all on work!" That's all. Therefore, the Westerners also want an economic union with Russia. Unlike Tajiks and other Asians, they have specialties and education, and in gayrops they can only be taken out from under old people, and in Russia they can offer qualified work.


              Thanks for the information.
              1. mda
                mda 13 December 2012 21: 01
                0
                Quote: mda-a
                Thanks for the information.

                Most likely the hunter "-" put
            2. Vladimir 70
              Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 19: 40
              +10
              LAZ also breathes in incense. he does not make buses, and trolleybuses are almost on the knee by the piece. Was 2 years ago in Lviv, immediately could not understand what was wrong on the streets? The architecture is in place, so is the transport. Began to look closely - so what? young (under 25) and old (over 55) are walking. And where is the working age? I drew the attention of a companion to this fact, and he resolved the issue with one phrase: "So these (ages from 25 to 55 years old) are all on work!" That's all.
              This is very bad! Since people under 25 are prone to "rebellion" and are easily controllable, there is no normal job, there is no normal earnings - all you need to do is to shout: Moscow is to blame for everything, and those living in the East of Ukraine are Moscow, let's cut the Moscow * and there will be happiness !. Here is "chechnya" in Ukraine ....
            3. vitya29111973
              vitya29111973 5 March 2013 12: 27
              0
              Where is interestno ??? The industry of Russia as well as of Ukraine is breathing on fire. Both countries survive for the export of raw materials and "semi-finished products" where highly skilled forces are not often met. The only difference is that in Russia the export list will be larger and the number is not commensurate.
          3. Dikremnij
            Dikremnij 13 December 2012 20: 34
            +2
            And they don’t need industry, they are mostly on wages in Poland.
        2. bart74
          bart74 13 December 2012 18: 10
          +3
          But I don’t see anything surprising. In western Ukraine, not everyone was a slave to the Poles and Austrians.
      2. Quit
        Quit 13 December 2012 15: 39
        -4
        In Ukraine, the most authoritative organization in terms of polls is the Razumkov Institute. They asked a direct question in November: are you for association with the European Union or for the Customs Union? So, with an advantage of 7%, citizens spoke out for the European Union. Although similar questions do not split society, you need to put on the agenda, not time. And the fact that our people have a positive attitude towards our neighbors is excellent, that means they understand the difference between an ordinary Russian and an official who is chirping on behalf of the country.
        1. Homer
          Homer 13 December 2012 15: 46
          +10
          Quote: Quit
          for association with the European Union or for the Customs Union? So, with a margin of 7%, citizens spoke in favor of the European Union

          The EU is already in a half-dead state, but if Ukraine also joins there! .. then that's it! .. goodbye to Europe! wassat
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 03
            -23
            Quote: Homer
            The EU is already in a half-dead state, but if Ukraine also joins there! .. then that's it! .. goodbye to Europe!

            Well, yes, for that, the Russian Federation is more alive than all living ones, as in the Mausoleum.
          2. Quit
            Quit 13 December 2012 16: 04
            -5
            By your logic, it is necessary to join Russia in order to destroy it? You rejoice that you have not joined yet: Germany still cannot chew on the GDR.
          3. Sirozha
            Sirozha 13 December 2012 16: 21
            +15
            That's the goal! :)
            Who needs this EU? !! Perhaps the citizens of the country had some desire to enter there when he was not on clay feet, and now hardly. And our thieves' government will leave all integration only with words - after all, Europe will not allow to steal. And the introduction shines for us with the same prospects as Poland - it’s a complete ass of its production, because Europe needs to sell its products somewhere (and they will have good quality for themselves) and the competitors will simply be strangled ...
            1. Pablo
              Pablo 14 December 2012 16: 59
              0
              because Europe will not steal.
              AND WHERE FOR YOUR UKRAINTS, MONEY OFFICIALS ARE STORED, WHY IN THE EU? where is the money there and the heart
          4. vyatom
            vyatom 14 December 2012 12: 22
            +1
            The EU does not need Ukraine. But Ukraine does not need the European Union.
        2. vladek64
          vladek64 13 December 2012 15: 56
          +15
          Quote: Quit
          In Ukraine, the most authoritative organization in terms of surveys is the Razumkov Institute

          It is in America that you are the most authoritative.
          And in Ukraine, no one conducts surveys. All these numbers are sucked from the finger.
          After our orange revolutionaries, your "Western Happiness" turns people around so much that they were ready to vote for a criminal president, if only not just another Western doll. And after that, how can they be for the European Union, and even with an advantage of 7%?
          1. Quit
            Quit 13 December 2012 16: 12
            -19
            It doesn’t matter to me what IP gives. I don’t know what deaf people you live in, but any student in Kiev knows what the Razumkov Institute is and how authoritative it is to study. And in Kiev, people will easily come to the Maidan: the last election is easy proved. In contrast to the hammered east, power is a lesson here and bureaucrats will not work.
            1. in reserve
              in reserve 13 December 2012 16: 23
              +5
              Quit
              I don’t know what deaf people you live in, but any student in Kiev knows what the Razumkov Institute is and how authoritative its research is.


              And you have it in Kiev for sure, maybe this is America’s voice broadcasting enforcing the statement of Hillary Clinton
            2. vladek64
              vladek64 13 December 2012 16: 59
              +19
              Quote: Quit
              I don’t know what deaf people you live in,


              My wilderness is called Dnepropetrovsk.

              Quote: Quit
              And in Kiev, people will easily come to the Maidan


              It seems that for the people of Kiev, the Maidan is an erogenous zone. They scratch her on business and without business. And then all of Ukraine coughs up "Western choice" and "orange ideals."
              In the old days on the site of the Maidan there was a goat swamp, and now a goat party.
              1. Hunter
                Hunter 13 December 2012 17: 07
                -27
                Quote: vladek64
                It seems that for the people of Kiev, the Maidan is an erogenous zone. They scratch her on business and without business. And then all of Ukraine coughs up "Western choice" and "orange ideals." In the old days, there was a Goat Swamp on the site of the Maidan, and now there is a goat party.

                Oh "handsome". Pisi-pisi, they will even put Russian plus signs for you, there will be more of them, since the site is Russian. And from the Ukrainians - "-".
                1. Rink
                  Rink 13 December 2012 23: 56
                  +7
                  Quote: Hunter
                  Oh "handsome". Pisi-pisi, they will even put Russian plus signs for you, there will be more of them, since the site is Russian. And from the Ukrainians - "-".

                  I’m from Kiev, and I put you minus, Hunter.
                  We are one people, the difference between us is less than between the inhabitants of Texas and Alaska. And the "svidomi Ukrainians" - all of whom I know are a Polish cross between the occupation and colonization of the right-bank Ukraine. The Poles, at the direction of the Pope, forcibly Catholicized and Polonized the real, Orthodox Ukrainians and massacred Ukrainians in villages who did not agree to betray the faith of their fathers.
                  The Russians are more humane and kinder: having driven out the Poles and returning their ancestral lands, they did not act with the same methods, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." We did not slaughter, but left the Poles to live on our territory, and even allowed them to preserve their Catholic faith.
                  But you see in vain ... Kukushkina children can not calm down in any way. Myself on the mountain, I think.
                2. Quiet
                  Quiet 14 December 2012 18: 03
                  +2
                  And what on the Russian site climbed ??? With propaganda ????
              2. Vladimir 70
                Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 17: 16
                +8
                My wilderness is called Dnepropetrovsk.
                Hello Dnepropetrovsk!
                1. vladek64
                  vladek64 13 December 2012 17: 18
                  +8
                  Hello fellow countryman!
              3. Quit
                Quit 13 December 2012 22: 45
                -13
                All Ukraine is throwing out regional mankurts, which all the vladyka have taken away. The notorious rabcrin leader resettled eastern Ukraine after 29 years of all shloeben and convicts, and now we have a devastation in our heads.
                1. Rink
                  Rink 14 December 2012 00: 16
                  +19
                  Quote: Quit
                  All Ukraine is throwing out regional mankurts, which all the vladyka have taken away. The notorious rabcrin leader resettled eastern Ukraine after 29 years of all shloeben and convicts, and now we have a devastation in our heads.

                  That you must be the story of the Yushchenko books, corrected in your State Department taught? (I judge the flag).

                  What you call Eastern Ukraine has always been called Novorossiya and had nothing to do with "Ukraine", like Crimea. Ukraine to say "thank you" to Russia and bow down to her feet for what she not only saved from assimilation by the Poles, but also planted the land.

                  Print out the correct card for yourself, hang it on the wall and look at it every morning:



                  I repeat, because not everyone can see it; they still remember it.
                  It was the Russian soldier who returned our ancestral lands - the lands of Kievan Rus, taking them away from the occupiers: Poles and Turks. And then Russia ("empire") donated these lands to Ukraine. Just. Where is the gratitude for the restoration of the Ukrainian statehood, the salvation of the Ukrainian nation as such?

                  And enough to invent any nonsense about convicts and fugitive criminals.

                  I know only two countries that are really populated by descendants of pirates and robbers, killers and robbers, criminals of the highest standard: these are the North American United States and Australia. Here, the concentration of any criminal rabble from around the world was really much higher.
                  1. Odessa16
                    Odessa16 14 December 2012 18: 24
                    +3
                    According to the textbook - somewhere it seems. The South (Odessa, where I live) is not historically Ukrainian land at all, the Turks always lived here until Katya gouged them. And the Crimea is just the same - the Tatars still live there. Western Ukraine - there are no Ukrainians as such - a cross between Poles and Hungarians and Romanians - Galicia was chopped and eaten long ago. From Ukrainians alone fagnationalist sentiments, the purpose of which is to seize more lands, subjugate them and corrode everything that does not correspond to this awakened and trampled part of Russia.
                    Left bank (Poltava, Chernihiv) and Kiev region - yes, this is a native Ukrainian land. Well, highlighted in yellow too.
                    Donbass - no matter how much I read history - no, it still came from Russia. The Sea of ​​Azov, most of the Donetsk region - came from Russia.
                    All the good, as they say - had to go to court. Donetsk feeds the grumbling zapadentsev who beat the old grandfathers for not having prepared Hitler for breakfast in the crematorium, and they boast that they dug a trench for two parapets For Ukraine - Nenko. If everything was fair, Ukraine would be Somalia in the center of Russia, robbing Belarusian and Russian steamers on the Dnieper, and not the transport hub of Europe with the Donetsk region feeding the whole country.
                    1. gladiatorakz
                      gladiatorakz 14 December 2012 19: 00
                      -5
                      Odessa16 It seems to me very far that this is not a person from Ukraine who writes so about his country. If this is true, then my regrets to your Parents.
                    2. vitya29111973
                      vitya29111973 5 March 2013 13: 44
                      0
                      For especially "smart", historical information. In historical times, Greeks and nomads lived on the territory of the Odessa region. Then these lands were inhabited by the Slavs - the Tivertsy, the Buzhans uchiha. After the invasion of the Tatars, these lands were seized by the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. At the beginning of the 15th century, with the support of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Khadzhi Girey (the founder of the dynasties of the Crimean and later Kazan khans) seized power in the Crimea and declared himself a khan. During the reign of the Crimean Khan Mengli Girey (1468-1515), who became a vassal of the Turkish Sultan, relations between the Lithuanians and Tatars deteriorate, and the Tatars displace the Slavs into the northern regions with their raids, the north of the Odessa region was in the Bratslav voivodeship, and the liberated Zamlis were occupied by the Tatars, a little later Vlachs (Moldovans) - subjects of the Turkish Sultan. After the conquest of these lands by the Russian Empire, these lands were settled by colonists from Germany, Serbia, Bulgaria, but the bulk of the settlers are forced migrants from the Maloros provinces, much less from the Great Russian provinces (the resettlement of peasants with their bars who received land for their service from Empress Kateryna 2. On Due to the Turks, they practically did not live on the territory of the Odessa region, with the exception of a scanty stratum of Turkish merchants - (I don’t consider the garrisons of fortresses since it is difficult to call the military residents.) Odessa itself, before the First World War, was populated by Jews for more than half, then Russians - mostly officials and military. Then Moldovans, Ukrainians, Greeks, etc. Proceeding from this, it is assumed that the share of Turks in the total population of the Odessa region was negligible. was inhabited by Turks. And if you do not like the state of Ukraine, then you can calmly Do not go to their historical homeland in Israel. But I'm afraid that a person like you is unlikely to go to Israel, they shoot there. And in Russia, you will not go, they also shoot there, and so they shit on the Russian statehood with foam in their mouths, and you yourself dream of dumping in the states or Western Europe until you shiver.
                  2. Quit
                    Quit 16 December 2012 01: 24
                    -5
                    I taught history from Soviet textbooks — there was no access to others at that time. And you dragged all this greasy agitation from site to site, you could come up with something fresher. Regarding the east of Ukraine, you will be very surprised, but before Stalin's industrialization more than 70 % of the population there spoke Ukrainian, there and now old people in villages say so and this land has been a wild Cossack field all my life. What you believe is not yet an axiom. Study different sources of information, better archives or works of internationally recognized scholars, Russian including.
                2. Don
                  Don 14 December 2012 16: 28
                  0
                  Quote: Quit
                  All Ukraine picks up regional mankurts

                  No need to balabolit for the whole of Ukraine. How do you love wide patrioti havalnik open for the whole of Ukraine. It would be revered history who populated the Donbass, and not carried its nonsense.
                  Quote: Quit
                  to eastern Ukraine after 29 years of all shloebeni and convicts, now we have devastation in our heads.

                  Your head is in ruin. Do you know the population of eastern Ukraine? Probably not. Where in Soviet times could one take so many million convicts? Does your head even think a little? I don’t know where the Gulag was. You should have thrown off a link, and not stupidly lied.
                  1. Quit
                    Quit 16 December 2012 00: 30
                    -3
                    So I see that every downbass mouth has opened up. Learn to communicate first, and then comment. elections are absolutely opposite to the southeast. It was, is and will be. And about the "exclusive role" of Donbass:
                    1. imrek_ua
                      imrek_ua 17 December 2012 00: 07
                      0
                      Please, source, where did you get this information from, indicate.
                      1. Quit
                        Quit 17 December 2012 15: 00
                        -1
                        imrek_ua
                        TVi site, it is clearly visible in the picture.
                      2. imrek_ua
                        imrek_ua 27 December 2012 18: 20
                        0
                        I didn’t find the information on the site you indicated. Please provide an exact link. And, if possible, a link to the source of crime statistics - you gave these statistics below on the branch.
                3. Pablo
                  Pablo 14 December 2012 17: 10
                  +2
                  SOUTH EAST RUSSIAN LAND AND PEOPLE CONTAIN 60-80% ALL Ukraine.
            3. bart74
              bart74 13 December 2012 18: 15
              +2
              Do you work in the presidential administration of Ukraine? Then it is clear! You have something to fear for your people!

              In your opinion it turns out that the closer to the West the more civilized?
            4. Dikremnij
              Dikremnij 13 December 2012 20: 42
              +3
              Quit,
              1 Studios know, because they probably earned more than once there, spending social services. polls.
              2 The people will come out because they will be paid money.
              3 And who now dominates in Kiev, and not one of those lesson and bureaucrats?
              PS I'm from Kremenchug, Poltava region.
            5. revnagan
              revnagan 13 December 2012 23: 37
              +2
              Quote: Quit
              we have in Kiev

              One can say about Kiev and the people of Kiev in the words of a classic: “they are too far from the people.” Another state, or rather, a state within a state.
              Quote: Quit
              .In contrast to the hammered east, power is a lesson here and bureaucrats will not work.

              Fuh, well, thank God, they even say that the current president of Ukraine, sitting in Kiev, was twice before !! judged. Well, they are shouting, that means.
              1. Quit
                Quit 16 December 2012 01: 02
                -6
                He sits not in Kiev, but in his fortified area near Vyshgorod. Well, you don’t know: what is happening in Kiev and who is elected here and why. Apparently, apart from the Ukrainian flag, nothing binds you to Ukraine if you think that the people of Kiev " they are too far from the people. "
            6. Don
              Don 14 December 2012 16: 19
              +1
              Quote: Quit
              It doesn’t matter to me what IP gives. I don’t know what deaf people you live in, but any student in Kiev knows what the Razumkov Institute is and how authoritative it is to study. And in Kiev, people will easily come to the Maidan: the last election is easy proved. In contrast to the hammered east, power is a lesson here and bureaucrats will not work.

              Well, the people of Kiev, as usual, think that they are smarter than everyone and know everything better than everyone. You would not feed bread on bydlomaydan let go. We find ourselves here clogged in the east. Have you noticed who is in power in the country now? If you don’t know, then our people are from the east. Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk governing the country, not you. You were still terpils. Only I know how to talk in tongues and make rallies, but to no avail.
              1. Quit
                Quit 16 December 2012 00: 43
                -4
                You can see the worker is still the one, calluses do not rub on the keyboard, hard worker. How to steal without a break for lunch, your eastern people know well, here you are right if you think this is work. There is a handicap in front of the whole of Ukraine in the south and east, you understand that there is such a chance will no longer be (crime map by regions). Yes, and arguing with mankurts is useless, they will piss on your head, you will still say that this is God's dew.
                1. revnagan
                  revnagan 19 December 2012 13: 56
                  -1
                  Is it possible to map the population? By oblast? Then, as a percentage, the poorstates will not yield to the southeast of Ukraine.
                  Quote: Quit
                  Yes, and arguing with mankurts is useless, they will piss on your head, you will still say that this is God's dew.

                  Well, it’s so far that people from Catholic Benderstates are changing diapers from European old people and consider it a great honor.
                  1. Quit
                    Quit 19 December 2012 17: 11
                    0
                    You can easily find a map in Google, by the way, you’re surprised that against the backdrop of a catastrophically dying population in the east, in the west it’s only an increase. Westerners plow at construction sites and in agriculture, feed their families and send billions of bucks to the country, while some hut them for this, rubbing corns on the keyboard for days and hours, they are self-fulfilling, distributing stars to each other on shoulder straps.
                  2. Quit
                    Quit 11 January 2013 12: 46
                    0
                    revnagan,

                    The map is given for people who know how to think at least minimally: naturally, the number of the population has been taken into account. These figures are for every 100 thousand people. These are official data from the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
            7. Pablo
              Pablo 14 December 2012 17: 04
              +3
              in the east, the most freedom-loving people, because they do not want to obey the gay people, fagots from the usa, and benderasts.
            8. Quiet
              Quiet 14 December 2012 18: 01
              +2
              Sir, judging by the flag you are from America .... I’m ashamed of the independent flag ????
              1. Quit
                Quit 16 December 2012 01: 50
                -4
                What kind of flag does the provider give, this is it, I would take it with pleasure the flag of Ukraine. And why should I be ashamed? This is the land of freedom-loving ancestors, Kiev is a beautiful and ancient city, not everyone was lucky in life to be born and live in the midst of ancient monuments.
        3. Rink
          Rink 13 December 2012 23: 41
          0
          Quote: Quit
          In Ukraine, the most authoritative organization in terms of polls is the Razumkov Institute. They asked a direct question in November: are you for association with the European Union or for the Customs Union? So, with an advantage of 7%, citizens spoke out for the European Union. Although similar questions do not split society, you need to put on the agenda, not time. And the fact that our people have a positive attitude towards our neighbors is excellent, that means they understand the difference between an ordinary Russian and an official who is chirping on behalf of the country.

          This is precisely what the Ukrainian organizations have no faith in, no at all.
          They are so controllable that they will publish any "poll" result ordered by the authorities or the American ambassador.

          Ukrainian media, Ukrainian politics - everything stank of dirty linen from Uncle Sam. To the nausea.
          1. Quit
            Quit 16 December 2012 00: 54
            -3
            It is clear from your comments that you read the most “unbiased press.” What complaints about the Razumkov Center can you have? Excellent analytics and professional approach. By the way, among their clients are very serious Russian and European companies.
        4. Quiet
          Quiet 14 December 2012 17: 56
          -1
          In Ukraine ?????

          By the way Komchatka also add "B" ????
    3. Ascetic
      Ascetic 13 December 2012 16: 50
      +14
      Quote: donchepano



      If a catastrophe of the gap between Russia and Ukraine occurs, both our peoples betray and lose the most important thing, inexpressible in rubles, hryvnias and dollars, inheritance of a single historical fate, which our grandfathers and great-grandfathers entrusted to us and which we are obliged to transfer to grandchildren and great-grandchildren. This should always be remembered because it passes through our lives, unlike the policy of the authorities, gas conflicts, cheese wars, etc. I have for example a brother-in-law a Ukrainian, an officer of the Russian army, matchmakers live in the Chernihiv region in a small village when we come to all guests should visit him as it should be smoked and salted fat, home-made sausage, baked capon, pickles, home-brew, moonshine, vodka and pepper sauce to choose from drinks So everything is fine with us and there is no disagreement. Grandchildren went, who should they be? Russians or Ukrainians? All this is our common inheritance. Our common home, all of our land at the genetic level, despite the fact that we artificially divided
      So will we save the inheritance? All the same, to be successful alone, and simply to survive politically and economically in the current global world immersed in madness, is extremely problematic. Other (outside the CIS, CU, EurAsEC)) proposals for unification are neither visible in Russia nor Ukraine.
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 13 December 2012 17: 11
        -8
        Quote: Ascetic
        inheritance of a single historical fate,


      2. slvevg
        slvevg 13 December 2012 23: 20
        +16
        Good health to all. I am Ukrainian, my mother is Ukrainian, my father is Russian from the Urals. I graduated from school in Siberia, Nadym. In the 91st, everyone returned to Ukraine, except for her older sister, she lives in Russia. Fate happened like that. that we: brother and sister live in different countries and citizens of different countries, but at the same time blood relatives. I hope it's clear what I'm getting at. Further, I am a retired officer and declare, no matter how the government tries to transfer all the teams, etc. in Ukrainian, the language of officers is still Russian, especially in the sky ... Don’t quarrel men, there is a future ahead, it is even intuitive and I’ll be immeasurably drunk when everything falls into place !!!
    4. Lavr75
      Lavr75 14 December 2012 10: 32
      +9
      The peoples of Russia and Ukraine are not fraternal peoples, they are just one people.!
  3. Kars
    Kars 13 December 2012 08: 57
    -4
    Well, of course, the trail of the US state depot is visible in the utilization fees and cheese wars. And probably we are being thrown with loans from the US-controlled IMF. And one hundred percent of the bikers in Crimea were decoys.))))))))
    1. Vladimir 70
      Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 10: 42
      +12
      Well, of course, the trail of the US state depot is visible in the utilization fees and cheese wars. And, probably, they are throwing us loans from the US-controlled IMF.
      What prevents Ukraine from selling cheeses, cars, ..... to Europe. If Ukraine goes to Europe, then the main export should be to Europe.
      1. Kars
        Kars 13 December 2012 10: 54
        -2
        Quote: Vladimir 70
        What prevents Ukraine from selling cheeses, cars, ..... to Europe. If Ukraine goes to Europe, then the main export should be to Europe.

        We sell cheese to Europe anyway, but cars mean that what we have is not a competitive category in the European market. But as we are aware of the Russian Federation, it has entered the WTO, so this should be easier.

        And export should not be mainly to Europe, but ANYWHERE wherever possible, we sell milk powder to China instead of the Russian Federation. Maybe it will burn out from Yanyka’s black-east trip.
        But the Russian Federation is clearly waging trade wars, so it is not dragged into unions))))))) And no state depot is needed.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 13 December 2012 10: 58
          +15
          Quote: Kars
          But the Russian Federation is clearly trade wars, so do not drag into unions)))))

          And we don’t drag you in. There is a proposal, you can refuse. Although you have already explained on the fingers all the benefits of joining. Any country, any economic union protects its economic interests. What are the claims?
          1. Kars
            Kars 13 December 2012 11: 02
            -6
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            And we don’t drag you

            Truth))))))))))))
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Although you have already explained on the fingers all the benefits of joining

            I see how they explain it - show it.
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            protects its economic interests. What are the claims?

            had to think before joining the WTO.
            But for example, the recycling fee is a real crap from the discharge - and what would come up with this ---))))))
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 13 December 2012 11: 08
              +7
              Quote: Kars
              Truth))))

              But isn’t it, or what are we wrong in?
              Quote: Kars
              I see how they explain it - show it.

              And if specifically in numbers?
              Quote: Kars
              had to think before joining the WTO.

              And what is wrong with the WTO, I’m not happy that we got into it, but nevertheless on rather mild conditions, unlike you. You are now trying to increase duties by 370 goods, and by the way, all WTO members have condemned you for this Russia and India. With regard to the collection, protection of the economic interests of the CU, nothing else.
              1. Kars
                Kars 13 December 2012 11: 13
                -7
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                But isn’t it, or what are we wrong in?

                Who are we? And on the topic, are you exerting pressure to force it more conveniently?
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                And if specifically in numbers?

                So you said that you’ve clarified it on your fingers, and you’ll give the figure of Ukraine’s gain, I can say for my holding (where I work) that we will have about a 16% decrease in sales.
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                but nevertheless on fairly mild conditions, unlike you

                You have more to say here.
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                You are now trying to increase duties by 370 products, and by the way, all WTO members have condemned you for this

                Attempt not torture.
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                . With regard to the collection, protection of the economic interests of the CU, nothing else.

                Simple lies and nothing else. Which is likely to be canceled soon.
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 13 December 2012 11: 23
                  +8
                  Quote: Kars
                  Who are "we?

                  We are Russia.
                  Quote: Kars
                  And on the topic, are you exerting pressure for the compulsion so convenient?

                  Damn, what’s the pressure if we don’t lower the price of gas, well, there are signed contracts. There were proposals to reduce, there were creation of a bilateral consortium. They refused, they spoke about the loss of independence.
                  Quote: Kars
                  So you said that you’ve clarified it on your fingers, and you’ll give the figure of Ukraine’s gain,

                  Well, as far as I remember, Putin cited figures of $ 9 billion additionally to the budget of Ukraine, and this is only at the first stage.
                  Quote: Kars
                  , I can say for my holding (where I work) that we will have an approximately 16% decrease in sales.

                  This is what you trade?
                  Quote: Kars
                  Simple lies and nothing else. Which is likely to be canceled soon.

                  More likely no than yes. Introduce your measures, it will be honest.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 13 December 2012 11: 43
                    -5
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    if we do not reduce the price of gas

                    It’s not about gas, without it there’s enough. And the price will go down, not even talking about the fact that these are problems of industry, it was necessary to invest money not in estates but in modernization.
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Putin quoted an additional $ 9 billion

                    And why not 20? Believe Putin, do not respect yourself. Sorry. It would be true, Yanyk and Azarov would have signed the papers.
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    This is what you trade?

                    Milk processing holding, the fourth largest in Ukraine.
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    More likely no than yes. Introduce your measures, it will be honest

                    http://rian.com.ua/economy/20121128/336429715.html
                    Maybe this is not true, but there is also the notorious WTO. So let's see.
                    1. in reserve
                      in reserve 13 December 2012 14: 16
                      +6
                      Kars
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      if we do not reduce the price of gas

                      It’s not about gas, without it there’s enough. And the price will go down, not even talking about the fact that these are problems of industry, it was necessary to invest money not in estates but in modernization.


                      Yes, in general, everything is simple here, if Russia will use itself as a cash cow, you will not give a damn about it and you will not even realize that we are "of one kind of tribe." You want to live separately like Europe, then buy gas at European prices and this applies to everything else.
                      You seceded and now you consider yourself Europeans, as if you have fled from the "Russian savages", but history cannot be changed, we are all one people.
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 14: 38
                        -6
                        Quote: in stock
                        if Russia will blow itself to you to use as a cash cow

                        God bless you,
                        Quote: in stock
                        Europe, then buy gas at European prices

                        Well, sell to us at EUROPEAN prices, not more expensive.
                        Quote: in stock
                        but you won’t redo history, we are all one people.

                        Well, I don’t know that under the tsar they were and, I’m a Nazi snout, s, that under the USSR. And here we need one people. I am not one people with Chechens and Dagestanis))))
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 14: 56
                        -6
                        Quote: Kars
                        when the king were s and I am the Nazi face, s, that under the USSR

                        What a glitch.

                        When the king was K --- Atsapi and Ho-x-ly, that under the USSR. Remember how Bandarchuk was called in the 9th company)))))))))))
                      3. in reserve
                        in reserve 13 December 2012 15: 48
                        +16
                        For kars

                        Especially for you, I found the answer on the Internet.

                        Why does Russia sell gas to Ukraine at a price more expensive than Germany?

                        Germany is a more stable, honest, understandable and friendly power.
                        For 60 years in Germany they have not erected monuments to the Nazis and punishers, and the Germans do not flaunt in Russophobic T-shirts with the words "Thank God I am not Ivan."
                        On May 9, no one held a Nazi show against anti-fascist veterans, and Munich did not hold a march in honor of the local SS division, approved by the authorities.
                        The Germans do not fight with veterans! They prefer to issue Maybachs rather than concocting Holodomor holidays, or engage in francophobia, Russophobia in French or Russian forums and Answers.
                        They do not come up with fairy tales about the Tatar-Finnish country of Moksel and the fact that the Russians are not Slavs who stole their ethnic name, and like the Papuans joyfully do not duplicate this village-ragul stupidity on Russian portals to show their cave aggression, incompleteness and squalor .
                        The differences between civilized, partnering Germany and the unpredictable country of aggressive, frightened banderlogs are obvious.
                        Any leader of any country is simply obliged to make price differences for such different countries.
                      4. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 08
                        -9
                        Quote: in stock
                        Germany is a more stable, honest, understandable and friendly power.


                        Putin told Merkel that the EU is a “cartel conspiracy”
                        Russian President Vladimir Putin called the “cartel conspiracy” a decision-making mechanism in the European Union.

                        http://iport.info/regiony/putin-skazal-merkel-chto-es-eto-kartelnyj-sgovor/
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 16: 30
                        -1
                        Quote: in stock
                        Germany is a more stable, honest, understandable and friendly power

                        Simply put, you admit that in the price of gas you do not operate on market relations, but use them as a lever of pressure.

                        Which was required to prove.
                      6. bart74
                        bart74 13 December 2012 18: 28
                        +3
                        Of course! I imagine if the gas was in Ukraine, and not in Russia. And how much would it cost for the Russians?

                        Your government fought against the Russians in Chechnya and Georgia.
                        weapons do not sell to friendly countries of the Russian Federation.
                        aircraft carrier leaked to the Chinese.
                        you want to join NATO, but you won’t be taken.
                        with balts usi-pusi.
                        I can go on here forever!
                        ONLY DO NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OUR BROTHERS OF LITTLE RUSSIANS!
                      7. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 18: 52
                        -8
                        Quote: bart74
                        Of course! I imagine if gas was in Ukraine

                        We have it and will be even more.
                      8. OSTAP BENDER
                        OSTAP BENDER 13 December 2012 19: 46
                        +10
                        Quote: Hunter
                        We have it and will be even more.

                        Please tell me, who does this with us? It seems that you are from the moon! All gas that is produced in Ukraine is sold to the west! All the gas that is bought in Russia is sold to you and sold to you, the remainder of the loose, but good quality, is sold to the west! Even electricity is sold to the west, cheaper than the citizens of Ukraine, and the whole thing is done by oligarchs and those in power! You are some kind of nonsense !!!!!
                      9. Pablo
                        Pablo 14 December 2012 17: 25
                        +1
                        AND PEAS WILL AND GAS WILL BE IN BENDEROSTAN
                      10. Goldkonstantin
                        Goldkonstantin 15 December 2012 02: 13
                        +1
                        Well, well, I wonder where you get it? From under what or what?
                      11. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 20: 09
                        -5
                        Quote: bart74
                        Of course! I represent

                        Vryatli is enough.
                        Quote: bart74
                        Your government fought against the Russians in Chechnya and Georgia.

                        You couldn’t prove this - this is the time. On the contrary, your heroes of Russia fought there, they are two, just like the Russians.
                        Quote: bart74
                        weapons do not sell to friendly countries of the Russian Federation.

                        You yourself sell weapons to the United States, and even to oppress Afghanistan))))))
                        Quote: bart74
                        aircraft carrier leaked to the Chinese.

                        And you two or three, from some even you didn’t take the secret equipment, you also trade with them the latest models.
                        Quote: bart74
                        with balts usi-pusi.

                        And did we quarrel with them? And I don’t see an active Russian position in the Baltic states,)))))) they didn’t even ban the import of sprats and gas them with gas)))
                        Quote: bart74
                        I can go on here forever!

                        no doubt .. with the mind .. you are not rich)
                        Quote: bart74
                        ONLY DO NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OUR BROTHERS OF LITTLE RUSSIANS!

                        I will report for myself, UKRAINIAN, Great Russia)))))
                      12. Pablo
                        Pablo 14 December 2012 17: 21
                        0
                        YOU DO NOT MEAN RUSSIAN, AND BENDERRAST, FROM POLISH LANDS.
            2. Vladimir 70
              Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 11: 12
              +8
              had to think before joining the WTO.
              But for example, the recycling fee is a real crap from the discharge - and what would come up with this ---))))))
              Well, why the crap? Ukraine also tried to introduce a recycling fee, so Europe immediately opened its mouth. True, the mouth does not open to Russia due to recycling
              1. Kars
                Kars 13 December 2012 11: 25
                -6
                Quote: Vladimir 70
                Well, why the crap? Ukraine also tried to introduce a recycling fee

                Lazha because recycling is a profitable business that is now in the shadows. Ukraine tried to enter in the ANSWER to Russian.

                In normal countries, when a person rents an old car, they still pay him money.
                Quote: Vladimir 70
                True, the mouth does not open to Russia due to recycling

                You do not know, read here the same article about lawsuits against the Russian Federation through the WTO.
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 13 December 2012 11: 29
                  +8
                  Quote: Kars

                  In normal countries, when a person rents an old car, they still pay him money

                  In Japan, you still have to pay so that the car would be scrapped hi
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 13 December 2012 11: 37
                    -4
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    In Japan, you still have to pay so that the car would be scrapped

                    But at the same time, is there a recycling fee when importing?
                    And so they drive their used cars in Russia (even though you’re closer there, you’re more familiar)
                    And in Ukraine, you can earn money by passing the car for disassembly.
                    1. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov 14 December 2012 05: 35
                      0
                      Quote: Kars
                      But at the same time, is there a recycling fee when importing?

                      And what an eccentric is lucky in Japan.
                      Quote: Kars
                      And so they drive their used cars in Russia

                      No, the Japanese do not drive anything; now auctions are working, before cars, in fact, you could just buy on the street. Japanese used is better than our new one. We buy it ourselves.
                      Quote: Kars
                      And in Ukraine, you can earn money by passing the car for disassembly.

                      You will be paid for it in Russia, in Europe you can also sell a used car. This is a business.
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 14 December 2012 14: 17
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        And what an eccentric is lucky in Japan.

                        Rich eccentric - Bentley, Ferari, etc. I don’t understand cars.
                2. Pablo
                  Pablo 14 December 2012 17: 31
                  0
                  Vssha several hundred dollars. you have to pay for the disposal of the car, so some yossali cars in other states,
          2. Kaa
            Kaa 13 December 2012 22: 31
            +7
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            And we don’t drag you in. There is a proposal - you can refuse.

            Oh, I beg you, while here h..lo..rach was walking, it turns out that no one is giving up anything, but on the contrary, is striving. Well, flirting feel broke for decency, but somehow it is necessary to live ... what
            "President Viktor Yanukovych said in a video message to the Verkhovna Rada that Ukraine will gradually join the rules of the Customs Union.
            The President's address was broadcast at the parliament meeting. At the same time, the opposition left BP. "We will gradually join the rules of the Customs Union, because a huge market for Ukrainian goods is concentrated there. We will do everything to ensure that Ukraine has harmonious relations with the countries of the Customs Union not only in the economic, but also in the humanitarian, scientific and social spheres," he said. Yanukovych. Let's remind, earlier it was reported that Yanukovych will go to Moscow on December 17-18, where he will discuss the possibility of Ukraine's participation in the eastern integration process, in particular, joining the Customs Union. " good http://lb.ua/news/2012/12/13/182434_yanukovich_rasskazal_deputatam.html
            http://www.segodnya.ua/economics/enews/YAnukovich-zayavil-o-chastichnom-prisoedi

            nenii-Ukrainy-k-Tamozhennomu-soyuzu.html
            1. Arkan
              Arkan 14 December 2012 13: 15
              +2
              Quote: Kaa
              Oh, I beg you, while here h..lo..rach was walking, it turns out that no one is refusing anything, but on the contrary,

              laughing Yeah, and in Europe they started talking about the speedy signing of the EU Association Agreement with Ukraine. Especially the Poles. laughing
              1. Kars
                Kars 14 December 2012 14: 18
                +1
                And most likely, both conditions will change, for the better for Ukraine.
        2. bootlegger
          bootlegger 13 December 2012 11: 05
          +6
          But how is it being dragged in? Are they creating the most favored nation treatment in trade and in prices? And why then an alliance, if everything is already so?
          It was like this with the WTO (we won’t yet consider the feasibility of joining). Until we met all their conditions, we were in no hurry to accept us there.
          In your opinion, it turns out that then, in alliance with Russia, Ukraine can have only one goal, obtaining money, loans, and subsidies. What do you want.
          Why is the Russian Federation such an alliance that only milks it? What will it give in terms of Russia's strategic advantages?
          In addition to cheap gas, Russia also has a solvent market. And this is a great value. And if Ukraine needs gas all the time, then the market is needed for future development. But we can easily develop our own market. And Ukraine is not Germany and it has nothing that Russia is not able to produce now. And I see no reason why Russia should give it unconditionally, just out of a good location ...
          1. Kars
            Kars 13 December 2012 11: 18
            +2
            Quote: bootlegger
            that then, in alliance with Russia, Ukraine can have only one goal, obtaining money, loans, subsidies. What do you want.

            Actually, you want an alliance, you have never read that Ukraine without Russia will not become an empire, because we are not going to be an empire.

            And so in principle I see no reason why we need some kind of union, we are already in the CIS. Do you have enough cannon fodder for the war with NATO? Or what?
            Under the USSR, we were united by IDEALOGY, but now it’s not there, unless we take out the means of production from private hands, dispossess everyone with an income of more than $ 30 a year, and return the Communist Party as the only party.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 13 December 2012 11: 25
              +6
              It is possible to gather or not to gather, this is a personal matter. The trouble is that the "big guys at the world table" suddenly found the bottom in the saucepan, the spoons were already tapping on it ... So at the upcoming dinner there are only two options: to become either an eater or food. You won't be able to sit aside, alas ...
            2. bootlegger
              bootlegger 13 December 2012 11: 38
              +8
              It turns out that we still have to persuade you.
              The fact of the matter is that even now you don’t want anything. Although you are in a difficult (to put it mildly) economic situation. Your GDP is 7% of the Russian Federation, and the population is one third of it. You are all on the verge of collapse hope.
              You do not need to think about the empire, but about preserving the state. Here is your goal in alliance with Russia.
              And about the empire, Brzezinski got excited. How do we bring this empire closer by attracting to it a country with BBB 1 / 12-1 / 15 from the Russian Federation? Our own GDP, naturally, and so in 2 years has been growing by the Ukrainian economy alone.
              Only the human potential of Ukraine, its attraction, and the strategic gain from this can somehow justify this venture. And we have enough resources and territories ...
              As for cannon fodder, I wouldn’t rush to conclusions. We have enough nuclear weapons and there is no one who wants to attack us. And you and Romania have a ripening conflict, and your army is in very poor condition ..
              1. Kars
                Kars 13 December 2012 11: 49
                -8
                Quote: bootlegger
                It turns out that we still have to persuade you.

                If we mean so little and so on and so forth --- order to believe in your noble, gratuitous goals, reaching out a hand for humanitarian assistance?
                As Stanislavsky said --- DO NOT Believe.
                Quote: bootlegger
                Although you are in a difficult (to put it mildly) economic situation

                in the 90s it was much worse.
                1. bootlegger
                  bootlegger 13 December 2012 12: 59
                  +4
                  Nobody is trying to convince you of his disinterestedness. We need you. But you need us no less, and maybe more. Will we have an empire, without Ukraine, another question. But without us, you will definitely get stuck at the level of the economies of the third countries of the world. You do not have the opportunity to compete with developed European countries. At least in the next 50 years.
                  In 90 you still had relatively modern means of production. And now what remains of them?
                  The fear that Russia will buy from you everything that is still valuable is ridiculous. Is it the fact that now the Ukrainian oligarchs own it, that guarantees something for ordinary citizens? Moreover, as soon as the affairs of any oligarch in Ukraine are established, it immediately becomes Ukrainian oligarch. And on the back.
                  Capital has no homeland; it is where it is more profitable for it.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 13 December 2012 13: 15
                    -6
                    Quote: bootlegger
                    But without us, you are definitely stuck at the level of the economies of third world countries. You have no opportunity to compete with developed European countries


                    I see Ukraine as an agrarian country with modern agriculture exporting food products all over the world. To close environmentally hazardous production and develop green energy. At the same time, preserve and increase atomic energy but increase security.
                    Quote: bootlegger
                    . Is it that the Ukrainian oligarchs now own it, what does it guarantee for ordinary citizens?

                    Ordinary citizens are afraid that a new redistribution will begin, in which the protégés of Moscow will have more power. And their welfare will be improved. and even the budget of the Russian Federation will suffer))))
                    Quote: bootlegger
                    Capital has no homeland; where it is more profitable for it

                    Especially, then why all these worries. And by the way, I am a little familiar with mergers and ..unions of assets ..
            3. Manager
              Manager 13 December 2012 11: 54
              +8
              Quote: Kars
              Kars


              Here I read and smile naivety. You are all about some kind of benefits, auto utilities say, etc.

              That's when you will be pushed to the tail (And this will happen sooner or later. And not only to you but also to all the countries that were in the USSR) and then you will understand that we need to stick together not for the sake of profit, profit, but simply in order to survive. Then perhaps we will unite in spite of all politics, oligarchs, etc. The Slavic mentality is like that. Until the fried cock in the ass bites.
              1. Kars
                Kars 13 December 2012 11: 56
                -4
                Quote: Manager
                That's when your tail is pressed

                And I personally do not believe, and I do not see where and how the tail can be pressed against us.
                1. Manager
                  Manager 13 December 2012 12: 08
                  +4
                  Quote: Kars
                  And I personally do not believe, and I do not see where and how the tail can be pressed against us.


                  in 41, too, no one believed. Yes, and before that. Yes 5 centuries ago. And before that.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 13 December 2012 12: 11
                    -8
                    Quote: Manager
                    at 41, too, no one believed.

                    As I understand it, do you not believe in progress in world politics? Or maybe Angela Merkel has already been written by Mine Kampf?

                    This is what you need for the Chinese boyats, and not for us Europe. We are still printing on European maps, as soon as we stop and start watching.
                    1. Manager
                      Manager 13 December 2012 12: 14
                      +7
                      Quote: Kars
                      As I understand it, do you not believe in progress in world politics? Or maybe Angela Merkel has already been written by Mine Kampf?

                      This is what you need for the Chinese boyats, and not for us Europe. We are still printing on European maps, as soon as we stop and start watching.



                      Why go far? There is news on Yandex.
                      4. Syrian fighters threaten to attack the embassies of the Russian Federation and Ukraine in Damascus

                      So we will continue to share GAZ and LNG, or can we unite and who we need to give in the teeth?
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 12: 19
                        -8
                        Quote: Manager
                        4. Syrian fighters threaten to attack the embassies of the Russian Federation and Ukraine in Damascus

                        I’ll cry. There’s only one embassy to be with us - something will change when the militants attack it. You support the Assad.
                        Quote: Manager
                        will unite and who will we give in the teeth?

                        Oh, yes, I’m just intolerant of fighting in Syria, it’s inevitable for what would then be sent in three cheerful letters like in Egypt.
                      2. Manager
                        Manager 13 December 2012 12: 22
                        +9
                        Quote: Kars
                        I’ll cry. There’s only one embassy to be with us - something will change when the militants attack it. You support the Assad.


                        The meaning is different. The fact that Russia and Ukraine. And not Russia and Uzbekistan, for example. They are terrorists who consider us as one whole by and large. And you are all about yours. Well, oh well. This is your personal opinion and I am glad that it is not uniform in Ukraine and Russia. There are people who think differently. And I will rely on them.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 12: 34
                        -9
                        Quote: Manager
                        And I’ll bet on them

                        fifth columns are everywhere. Regarding what is poorly distinguished - well, what to take from the Arabs, my uncle was a military adviser in Egypt, he spoke very poorly about them.
                        It’s a pity that you didn’t have enough to respond to a replica
                        Quote: Kars
                        Oh, yes, I’m just intolerant of fighting in Syria, it’s inevitable for what would then be sent in three cheerful letters like in Egypt.
                      4. Manager
                        Manager 13 December 2012 12: 40
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        It’s a pity that you didn’t have enough to respond to a replica

                        Quote: Kars
                        Oh, yes, I’m just intolerant of fighting in Syria, it’s inevitable for what would then be sent in three cheerful letters like in Egypt.


                        I didn’t mean it, therefore I didn’t answer.
                        But if you are interested in my opinion, then this is your own business. Although I also think that this is not our war and we have nothing to do there. And the phrases "GIVE IN THE TEETH" I meant figuratively. The fact that if we were together we would be respected more. (Feared)
                        What was with you in Egypt is of course interesting to me, but as they say to a curious Barbara, they pushed me around the neck. There will be a desire to tell yourself.
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 12: 45
                        -6
                        Quote: Manager
                        The fact that if we together would respect us more

                        And that nuclear weapons and ICBMs are no longer quoted?
                        Quote: Manager
                        What was with you in Egypt

                        Everything is fine with me, I didn’t even leave the hotel, those pyramids were given to me)
                        and what about the USSR, well, it’s not a secret, and it’s easy to find Google.
                      6. Manager
                        Manager 13 December 2012 12: 57
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        And that nuclear weapons and ICBMs are no longer quoted?


                        Nuclear weapons are deterrence weapons. That is why the Banana Republics are not afraid of this. No one will use it, especially against banana republics.
                        It is another matter to have thousands of tanks and planes. And a strong fleet. And also a tough policy.
                      7. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 19: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: Manager
                        It is another matter to have thousands of tanks and planes. And a strong fleet. And also a tough policy.

                        So go ahead and make fun of it. Build Ukraine. And what? You have enemies. And we will be friends with everyone. We do not pretend to be a pole. But what I miss you do not understand. Cannon meat?
                      8. mazdie
                        mazdie 13 December 2012 21: 38
                        +1
                        Those who are trying to be friends with everyone are usually all to the fullest; if a person has no enemies, then he does not have his own opinion and sense of dignity.
                      9. Kars
                        Kars 14 December 2012 01: 55
                        -5
                        Quote: mazdie
                        if a person has no enemies, then he does not have his own opinion, and dignity

                        if I honestly haven’t read it yet.
                        Quote: mazdie
                        Those who try to be friends with everyone usually have everything to the fullest

                        if it brings pleasure to both partners, then why not. I understand that when you have your woman she becomes ill and offended by this?
                      10. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 14 December 2012 05: 38
                        +4
                        Quote: Kars

                        So go ahead and make room. Build. Ukraine then what? You have enemies. And we will be friends with everyone.

                        Yes, Kars, you annealed today, didn’t notice such nationalism before. Did you get five drops of chtol?
                      11. Kars
                        Kars 14 December 2012 14: 21
                        -3
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Yes, Kars, you annealed today, before this nationalism did not notice

                        It’s strange, at least with what you follow me. Not such articles with Ukrainian subjects, I would become a marshal six months ago))))))
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Accumulated five drops chtol?

                        Never abused, and the last 5 years except beer, and even in limited quantities.
                      12. Roman A
                        Roman A 14 December 2012 14: 56
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        You have enemies, and we will be friends with everyone.

                        The question is, who are you?
                      13. Kars
                        Kars 14 December 2012 22: 14
                        -1
                        Quote: Roman A
                        The question is, who are you?

                        Well then, to the doctor --- sexual preoccupation, against the backdrop of dissatisfaction with the cure. And then it has become normal to translate friendship into sex right away, I am afraid for your friends men become, although these are yours and their problems.
                      14. Roman A
                        Roman A 15 December 2012 11: 52
                        0
                        Well then, to the doctor --- sexual preoccupation, amid dissatisfaction with the cure
                        With concern, I don’t worry.
                        Quote: Kars
                        And then stanno, friendship immediately transfer to sex

                        Actually, men are not supposed to be friends with everyone like nature by the nature of their war, but tolerance is for the flag of the rainbow. If my memory serves me, Ukrainians have always been wars, so the question suggests itself
                      15. Kars
                        Kars 15 December 2012 12: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Roman A
                        With concern, I don’t worry.

                        Why do I need it, but to those around you.)))))) According to your comments, it is clear that you are unable to adequately evaluate yourself.
                        Quote: Roman A
                        If my memory serves me, Ukrainians have always been wars

                        They had to, because there are different strange things around, well, you are in the know.
                        Though probably all the same you have a weak logic to translate international relations into sex and interpersonal at the level of reflexes. So my first tip remains valid. Maybe it's not too late.
                      16. Roman A
                        Roman A 15 December 2012 12: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Though probably all the same you have a weak logic to translate international relations into sex and interpersonal reflexes

                        As I see you are just a guru of logic. Then you are surrounded by different
                        Quote: Kars
                        They had to, because there are different strange things around, well, you know

                        then you want to be friends with them
                        Quote: Kars
                        You have enemies, and we will be friends with everyone

                        And then it brings you pleasure
                        Quote: Kars
                        if it brings pleasure to both partners then why not

                        Well done respect
                      17. Kars
                        Kars 15 December 2012 12: 44
                        -2
                        Quote: Roman A
                        As I see you are just a guru of logic. Then you are surrounded by different

                        Me? Do you also read poorly on the background of sperm toxicosis?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Them had to
                        I emphasized that you would understand.

                        Quote: Roman A
                        then you want to be friends with them
                        As I understand it, you don’t believe in the evolutionary development of the world community, and what are the times, the rules of the game changing?
                        Quote: Roman A
                        And then it brings you pleasure
                        Here again, a bias towards sex, hurry about something the doctor may not help you.

                        Quote: Roman A
                        Well done respect

                        As I understand it, you are still in bed and an egoist? Just thinking about yourself? And you want to transfer the same thing to foreign policy? Do you want to have everyone?)))) A clinical case.
                      18. Roman A
                        Roman A 15 December 2012 12: 54
                        +1
                        Girl why are these jumping women decorated with modesty "12 chairs
                        do not hysterical where your cold logic is better "contact the league of sexual services there will help" 12 chairs So write letters Friendship you are our
                      19. Kars
                        Kars 15 December 2012 13: 01
                        0
                        Quote: Roman A
                        don't hysteria where is your cold logic

                        Quote: Roman A
                        So write letters

                        No, you are not interested as an opponent - so quickly deflated. You probably realized that I was of a traditional sexual orientation and couldn’t help you in your problems. Dare to do anything, it’s possible that it’s a bummer and will let you go.
                      20. gladiatorakz
                        gladiatorakz 13 December 2012 12: 58
                        +15
                        Quote: Kars
                        Oh yeah, I’m just intolerant of fighting in Syria for what

                        The Union fought in Afghanistan, so as not to fight in Tajikistan. Russia is now fighting in Tajikistan, so as not to fight in Russia.
                        I think it’s better to fight, or even just help (weapons, ammunition, intelligence data, intelligence) than to fight on our land later.
                      21. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 13: 18
                        -3
                        Quote: gladiatorakz
                        The Union fought in Afghanistan, so as not to fight in Tajikistan

                        Far-fetched, while investing the money that went to the roads and factories of Afghanistan in the economy of Tajikistan + strengthening border outposts would be better.

                        And this is only Afghanistan, but how many more places are there but far from the borders of the USSR, where they fought, where they gave weapons and loans and then the USSR either stupidly sent, or politely. Only Vietnam was grateful.
                      22. skullcap
                        skullcap 13 December 2012 15: 07
                        +6
                        Kars (1) Today, 13: 18
                        .... invest the money that went to the roads and factories of Afghanistan in the economy of Tatzhikistan + strengthening of border posts would be better.
                        ------------------------------------------
                        Kars, your conclusions are far from the realities of life, because you were not in Central Asia.
                        In addition to ensuring the growth of welfare, it is necessary that he was valued and not considered themselves offended.
                        I lived in Uzbekistan before and during the entry of Soviet troops in Afghanistan.
                        Personal observations: if before it was often possible to meet domestic hostility (“Drive your Russia”), then after the local “partisans” returned from behind the river, the relationship changed very abruptly for the better.
                        Local guys saw how people live according to Sharia law, compared and understood that they live in the Union, it turns out - in chocolate.
                        I personally watched more than once while local 40-50-year-old police sergeants saluted army officers who were far from 30. Themselves. Without any hint of some kind of coercion. What previously no one would have dreamed of.
                        So the decision to bring into Afghanistan really pushed the mutual perestroika massacre of the Soviet people and its division into national apartments.
                      23. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 15: 11
                        -3
                        Quote: kosopuz
                        because you were not in Central Asia

                        Really wasn’t.

                        But still I think my opinion is wealthy. So why did we introduce troops in the 80s, not the 60s.

                        But I will not argue that it was. Afghanistan, as we see, is still fighting.
                      24. bart74
                        bart74 13 December 2012 18: 36
                        0
                        You shouldn't argue with the troll. Kars works in the "government". And rarely leaves the hotel. He is "MARSHAL"
                      25. mazdie
                        mazdie 13 December 2012 21: 40
                        0
                        They fought for the idea, here you are almost right, BUT not in Avgan. I’m wondering if you were the Secretary General at that time, what decision would you make?
                      26. Arkan
                        Arkan 14 December 2012 14: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        my uncle was a military adviser in Egypt, he spoke very ill of them.

                        Nevertheless, this was and is a strategic necessity, for this there were a lot of reasons. The collapse of the USSR (and, consequently, the refusal of the former Soviet Republics from its policy) led, well, for example, Ukraine to the following: 1) Romania and Hungary actually began the humanitarian annexation of several regions of Ukraine (issuing passports, etc.) which in the future may lead to armed confrontation (unless of course Ukraine wants to lose these territories in some European Court); 2) Turkey, one of the closest neighbors of Ukraine, in fact is a country exporter of terrorism. Problems can arise with this, too; 3) Countries with which Ukraine may have military problems are in the NATO bloc, and therefore can count on (at least ) economic, military-technical, political, and informational support of the entire alliance.
                      27. Kars
                        Kars 14 December 2012 15: 00
                        -4
                        Quote: Arkan
                        Nevertheless, this was and is a strategic necessity; there were a lot of reasons for this.

                        First, support Israel against the Arabs. Then the Arabs against Israel. Spend billions in foreign currency - and then a kick in the ass and Egypt goes to the United States, as well as some other countries in the region.
                        Quote: Arkan
                        humanitarian annexation of several regions of Ukraine (distribution of passports, etc.)

                        20 years old, and things aren’t there, and with passports everything will get nothing racally.
                        Quote: Arkan
                        ) Turkey, one of the closest neighbors of Ukraine, in fact - a country exporter of terrorism

                        Like Chechnya in Russia.
                        Quote: Arkan
                        of a military nature are in the NATO bloc, and therefore they can count on (at least) economic, military-technical, political, and informational support of the entire alliance.

                        How does this aid for Turkey go about Cyprus and the war with the Kurds?
                        Help is possible if Ukraine decides to conquer Romania. And somewhere in the NATO charter there is something about territorial disputes and NATO membership.
                        Also, special assistance to the Romanian armed forces is not visible.
                        Quote: Arkan
                        Unless, of course, Ukraine wants to lose these territories in some European Court

                        Here the main point is that Ukraine’s agreement is not required to be brought to court by Romania or Vienna --- but as we see these claims are not, even though we know that Romania did not hesitate to file it on the shelf.
                      28. Arkan
                        Arkan 14 December 2012 19: 01
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        First, support Israel against the Arabs. Then the Arabs against Israel. Spend billions in foreign currency - and then a kick in the ass and Egypt goes to the United States, as well as some other countries in the region.

                        They tried to maintain a balance, since both of them wanted to live in Palestine, and surrounded themselves with territory in which it would be impossible to deploy bases of American bombers (and subsequently tactical missiles), with which the Union would be problematic to fight. And, whenever possible, they tried to make the "security zone" as wide as possible. The Americans did the same, and for both of them - something worked out somewhere, and something did not.
                        Quote: Kars
                        20 years old, and things aren’t there, and with passports everything will get nothing racally.

                        Such intrigues are launched with the expectation of a much longer period.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Like Chechnya in Russia.

                        The second war in Chechnya is a war with radicals who came from outside, whose "import" is now occupied by Turkey. What does Chechnya have to do with it?
                        Quote: Kars
                        How does this aid for Turkey go about Cyprus and the war with the Kurds?

                        And here is Ukraine?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Also, special assistance to the Romanian armed forces is not visible.

                        And what will happen tomorrow?
                      29. Kars
                        Kars 14 December 2012 22: 03
                        -1
                        Quote: Arkan
                        surrounded themselves with the territory on which it would be impossible to deploy bases of American bombers (and later tactical missiles),

                        In Egypt and Israel? You don’t confuse anything? Okay, Afghanistan is still close by, and these are quite far away, and there is Turkey where these missiles and bombers are located. No, it's not that.
                        Quote: Arkan
                        Such intrigues are launched with the expectation of a much longer period.

                        Right Machiaveli Romanian spill, no it could be in 1991 --- 1994 more than a suitable situation I do not foresee.
                        Quote: Arkan
                        And what about Chechnya?

                        Quote: Arkan
                        Second war in Chechnya

                        It goes without saying, like territories where there is very good support for the radicals, but I personally think that Muslim radicalism does not threaten Ukraine. Crimean Tatars are easier to hold in their hands --- how many minutes did their last speech last?
                        Quote: Arkan
                        And here is Ukraine?

                        Turkey is a NATO member with territorial disputes. Romania is a NATO member --- in theory, on the basis of Turkish NATO events, one can draw analogies with the Romanians. Although their army has been steadily shrinking for the last decade, as well as the content is being cut.
                        Quote: Arkan
                        And what will happen tomorrow?

                        This is not a matter of one day, or even not one year.
                2. bart74
                  bart74 13 December 2012 18: 31
                  +1
                  And you generally judging by the comments, a short-sighted person. What class of marshal are you studying in?
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 13 December 2012 19: 44
                    -4
                    Well, in what class do I need to ask you this - a clown that took a nickname from the Yankesian cartoon)))))) karamba, bite me for my shorts.
              2. in reserve
                in reserve 13 December 2012 14: 25
                +4
                Manager
                Quote: Kars


                Here I read and smile naivety. You are all about some kind of benefits, auto utilities say, etc.

                That's when you will be pushed to the tail (And this will happen sooner or later. And not only to you but also to all the countries that were in the USSR) and then you will understand that we need to stick together not for the sake of profit, profit, but simply in order to survive. Then perhaps we will unite in spite of all politics, oligarchs, etc. The Slavic mentality is like that. Until the fried cock in the ass bites.


                And he only thinks about money, how he will smell fried in his gay Europe.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 13 December 2012 14: 35
                  -3
                  Quote: in stock
                  he will dump in his gay Europe

                  It is not worth others to measure on their own. This is free advice.
                  1. in reserve
                    in reserve 13 December 2012 16: 01
                    +1
                    Kars
                    It is not worth others to measure on their own. This is free advice.


                    Well, you want to say that you PATRIOT of your country and you know the history of education.
                    And here is my free tip He who does not know the past has no future ... do not forget. hi
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 13 December 2012 16: 27
                      -5
                      Quote: in stock
                      you want to say that you are a patriot of your country

                      Yes
                      Quote: in stock
                      and you know the history of education

                      I am happy with and since 1991 for that matter.
                      Quote: in stock
                      He who does not know the past has no future

                      most likely I generally (and Ukraine in the above privacy) know better than you.
                      1. in reserve
                        in reserve 13 December 2012 18: 01
                        +1
                        Kars
                        most likely I generally (and Ukraine in the above privacy) know better than you.


                        Since 1991 year?
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 19: 49
                        -4
                        Quote: in stock
                        Kars
                        most likely I generally (and Ukraine in the above privacy) know better than you.


                        Since 1991 year?



                        I think you should learn to read - it’s clearly written.
                        Quote: Kars
                        and you know the history of education

                        I am happy with and since 1991 for that matter.


                        And I know the general in the volume of school and university courses. The history of military operations is a little wider.
                        As for Ukraine, I’m quite happy with it since 1991 - I don’t particularly like kopats, famines, koliivschiny in junk, to seek out the homeland of elephants.
                    2. Setrac
                      Setrac 14 December 2012 16: 38
                      0
                      History as a science studying the past does not exist, there is history as an instrument of propaganda, and there is not a drop of truth in the history that you know. Based on the lies that you have been sucking in since childhood, you cannot correctly predict the future.
            4. Gecko
              Gecko 13 December 2012 12: 03
              +1
              It is necessary to see who whose colony was.

              At the head of the USSR:
              Lenin is a Jew
              Stalin - Georgian
              Khrushchev - Ukrainian
              Brezhnev - Ukrainian
              Andropov is a Jew
              Chernenko - Ukrainian
              Gorbachev - half Ukrainian

              Here read about the number of Ukrainians in senior posts in the USSR:
              http://mikle1.livejournal.com/716428.html
              1. Kars
                Kars 13 December 2012 12: 13
                -4
                Quote: gecko
                Here read about the number of Ukrainians in senior posts in the USSR:

                The Russian Federation is not the USSR, and the expected unification with the USSR will not even be close. I have a sickle and a hammer on my avatar, but the USSR is gone and it won’t be. And I don’t want a new Russian empire with Putin, it would be beaten off from Yanyk 1) )))))
                1. Gecko
                  Gecko 13 December 2012 12: 25
                  +5
                  I'm not talking about a union like the USSR.
                  I mean that enough to start an old song, that the Russians are to blame for everything and that Ukraine was oppressed and it lived under a centuries-old yoke.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 13 December 2012 12: 32
                    -1
                    Quote: gecko
                    start an old song that the Russians are to blame

                    and I’m looking for her? And not Russians, but specific personalities both in politics and here. Anxators and empathy. Here and the state depot is not necessary. It is enough that such articles appear on this site - even though when I started here it was almost not-- It was a military review.
                    1. skullcap
                      skullcap 13 December 2012 15: 17
                      +4
                      Kars (1) Today, 12: 32
                      Axiators and empatheals
                      -------------------------------------------
                      Kars, I do not recognize you today. You, incidentally, are not unwell?
                      What annexations are you talking about?
                      About the Crimea, New Russia or the Urals and Siberia?
                      The only thing that can somehow attract to annexation is the reunification of Galicia with Russia (then it was called the USSR).
                      But be unfair, because initially it was though Chervonaia, but Russia, and otherwise, it would be impossible to call it returning to its native state, if to be objective.
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 15: 27
                        -5
                        Quote: kosopuz
                        You, by chance, are not sick?

                        Some anxators, empathists, mentors and storytellers annoy me.

                        and as for annexations - there are such, there are four people.
                        Quote: kosopuz
                        But be unfair, because initially it was though Chervonaia, but Russia, and otherwise, it would be impossible to call it returning to its native state, if to be objective.


                        Here the main thing was, and to be fair, what is the relationship of the current Russian Federation, which left the USSR to such ancient times? The map of Eurasia has been redrawn more than once, and everyone can choose the borders that suit him.
                2. mazdie
                  mazdie 13 December 2012 21: 44
                  +2
                  Is Yushchenko closer to you?
              2. Hunter
                Hunter 13 December 2012 12: 39
                -14
                Quote: gecko
                At the head of the USSR: Lenin - Jew Stalin - Georgian Khrushchev - Ukrainian Brezhnev - Ukrainian Andropov - Jewish Chernenko - Ukrainian Gorbachev - half Ukrainian

                Hitler said that the Russians are a working people, but if they are ruled by the best.
                1. Gecko
                  Gecko 13 December 2012 13: 06
                  0
                  And where is your hitler?
                2. Gecko
                  Gecko 13 December 2012 13: 08
                  +7
                  And where is your hitler now?
                  1. Hunter
                    Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 22
                    -14
                    Quote: gecko
                    And where is your hitler now?

                    In the Kremlin, yesterday I read a message to the council about the "coming upheavals"
                    1. OSTAP BENDER
                      OSTAP BENDER 13 December 2012 19: 49
                      +3
                      Quote: Hunter
                      In the Kremlin, yesterday I read a message to the council about the "coming upheavals"

                      I don’t even put a minus to you! Something like that !!!!!
                    2. mazdie
                      mazdie 13 December 2012 21: 48
                      +1
                      I really want to go down to insults at you, but I hope that you will grow up and understand.
                3. Nose
                  Nose 13 December 2012 14: 29
                  +8
                  Quote: Hunter
                  Khrushchev - Ukrainian

                  Khrushchev, by the way, was from Yuzovka, that is, from Donetsk, and Donetsk was not Ukraine before the Soviet regime.
                  And Ukraine before the revolution did not exist!
                  1. Hunter
                    Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 43
                    -14
                    Nose,
                    Well, well, this Russia did not exist before Peter, like Muscovy before the Horde.

                    1. klimpopov
                      klimpopov 13 December 2012 15: 21
                      +8
                      Are you tired of this video (or not you, but very often it is shoved here in all places). I rarely answer such attacks, but I couldn’t pass by.
                      Well, well, this Russia did not exist before Peter, like Muscovy before the Horde.

                      Then there was no horde, but there was a "roof" from the Mongols, which with the Moscow brothers skipped (and they were not Mongols and Tatars, as it turns out), and Lenin, in general, flew from the future, to Vladimir Krasnosolnyshko and transferred the works of Marx, actually to this he became Red and so it is possible ad infinitum ...
                      In general, on Piri Reis maps (which, incidentally, were redrawn from earlier maps), Ukraine was located where Antarctica is now located and the so-called Atlantes are actually ancient Ukry, it was not profitable for the damned Moscow litter and they rewrote the glorious history of ukrov and specially kept silent about the kinship of ukrov with the Atlanteans ...
                      1. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 09
                        -5
                        Quote: klimpopov
                        and there was a "roof" from the Mongols which skented with the Moscow lads

                        Ah, it's called right now ... Interesting.
                      2. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 13 December 2012 16: 28
                        +5
                        And what Kalita was not a brother? In my opinion, it was notorious, they were roofing him from the horde and he was engaged in making a profit and collecting tribute, he put some in his pocket ... Well, I’m exaggerating it, of course, and the Kalita example is just very bright in my opinion, but the problems are the same, the spheres of influence , making a profit and so on, people then have not changed basically for 1000 years ...
                    2. mazdie
                      mazdie 13 December 2012 21: 50
                      0
                      Ukraine in itself is Russia, just over time, from the center of Russia, it has turned into the outskirts.
                  2. Gecko
                    Gecko 13 December 2012 15: 26
                    +2
                    It means that he was sympathetic, it was not in vain that he wore a shirt embroidered in the Ukrainian fashion and occasionally went on a mov. And the Crimea was clearly given by the meager ...
                    1. Hunter
                      Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 11
                      -10
                      Quote: gecko
                      It means that he was sympathetic, it was not in vain that he wore a shirt embroidered in the Ukrainian fashion and occasionally went on a mov. And the Crimea was clearly given by the meager ...

                      Russia in the whole history - the Russians did not rule except Putin, and even that one ended up with a crackling state and 79 billion on its accounts. Like this.
                      1. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 13 December 2012 16: 17
                        +2
                        Oh, how hto are these Russians? In your? Well, then, Ukrainians ... Is Putin Russian? belay Well, the Russian-speaking is understandable. And here's another question, who were the Great Princes of Russia? Incidentally, and the Great Princes of Ukraine? In general, everything is clear with you ...
                      2. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 17: 23
                        -3
                        Quote: klimpopov
                        Is Putin Russian?

                        Who? Interesting ... - It seemed from the Mordovians was, like Gundya.
                      3. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 13 December 2012 20: 02
                        +1
                        I mean that mixed with blood. And you won’t understand the digs, I just didn’t have anyone, but I call myself Russian ...
                      4. mazdie
                        mazdie 13 December 2012 21: 52
                        0
                        But Yushchenko has a wife and the State Department, as well as Mishiko.
              3. Arkan
                Arkan 13 December 2012 15: 48
                +3
                + + + laughing
                Quote: gecko
                It is necessary to see who whose colony was.

                At the head of the USSR:
                Lenin is a Jew
                Stalin - Georgian
                Khrushchev - Ukrainian
                Brezhnev - Ukrainian
                Andropov is a Jew
                Chernenko - Ukrainian
                Gorbachev - half Ukrainian

                Here read about the number of Ukrainians in senior posts in the USSR:

                Well, it was okay, so far not this one ...-- half Ukrainian .... laughing
            5. Pablo
              Pablo 14 December 2012 17: 37
              -1
              it’s cool when the underpolics call themselves Ukrainians,
        3. Rink
          Rink 14 December 2012 00: 27
          +3
          Quote: Kars
          Cheese, we already sell to Europe ....

          Do not make me laugh! How many kilograms do not remember?
          Look at the structure of Ukrainian exports first ...
          1. Kars
            Kars 14 December 2012 00: 36
            -1
            Quote: Skating rink
            How many kilograms do not remember?

            Do I need it in kg? Then I need to raise the report for November. Will it not work in tons? About 140 tons. We import it as a semi-finished product and put it in a factory in Hungary.
            1. Kars
              Kars 14 December 2012 22: 19
              0
              Okay, there are higher cons, but here for what? Just interesting? Is the toad crushing?
              During the ..cheese..crisis, we bought from the colleagues the semi-finished product that your ces wrapped up. It’s excellent on the European market, and there wasn’t any palm tree there.
              1. gladiatorakz
                gladiatorakz 15 December 2012 12: 37
                -1
                Quote: Kars
                Okay, there are higher cons, but here for what? Just interesting? Is the toad crushing?

                Most put the pros and cons guided by emotions, not logic.
                And according to the flags, of course ... smile
                Therefore, constructive conversation is often intertwined with hysterical screeches. An indicator of a certain level of thinking, probably.
                1. gladiatorakz
                  gladiatorakz 15 December 2012 20: 30
                  0
                  Oh, I immediately received greetings from some kind of thinker! laughing
                  1. gladiatorakz
                    gladiatorakz 15 December 2012 21: 15
                    0
                    Can you introduce yourself? Justify try. Or is it PMS to blame?
      2. Captain Vrungel
        Captain Vrungel 13 December 2012 11: 59
        +18
        Considering that 90% of Ukraine's exports are iron ore concentrate, metal and grain, and 10% are finished products, mainly food, we can say for sure that Ukraine is a raw material appendage and a potential "waste" landfill for consumer goods and illiquid goods.
        As soon as a rapprochement with Russia is outlined, the EU is activated to prevent this rapprochement. If disagreements arise in relations between Ukraine and Russia, the EU's interest immediately disappears and enslaving conditions begin to be put forward, especially in this the gathering of world bankers to guarantee the growth of their capital under the guise of the IMF succeeds. (an increase in tariffs for the population, an increase in the retirement age, in short, their own selfish oligarchic interests). In the European Union, Ukraine will be allocated a place like Somalia in Africa. We have one way. Towards each other. Maybe the authorities will understand that the union is needed not for thieves and oligarchs, but in spite of them. To create a union of fraternal peoples, viable in all respects, independent of the whims of "Uncle Sam" and the senile marasmus of Aunt Europe.
      3. Oleg Rosskiyy
        Oleg Rosskiyy 15 December 2012 19: 48
        0
        Vladimir 70,
        There are few molds and holes in Ukrainian cheese, the EU will not eat this, they are lovers with a sweet smell.
    2. Gecko
      Gecko 13 December 2012 11: 02
      -5
      You don’t throw all the gingerbread cookies, the whip is also attached, otherwise you will bury yourself.
    3. Arkan
      Arkan 13 December 2012 11: 57
      +1
      Kars,
      Yes, you are right, since 91 Russia's policy towards the former Soviet republics resembled an "elephant in a china shop", but nevertheless integration is necessary. The question is, are we "ripe" for such integration? " This is the most difficult answer.
      1. Kars
        Kars 13 December 2012 12: 02
        -3
        Quote: Arkan
        integration is needed

        So I don’t mind, but the main thing is the conditions. It’s impossible to become a world player, it becomes completely indebted to him. Yes, it won’t.
        1. mazdie
          mazdie 13 December 2012 21: 54
          0
          Unification should be equal, but not like the EU,
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 14 December 2012 16: 43
            -1
            What is it like? Ukraine wants to be among equals the most equal?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 14 December 2012 21: 59
              0
              Interestingly, is this a minus for the question? You yourself do not know how equal Ukraine wants to be, but put the cons properly.
      2. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 15 December 2012 13: 23
        0
        Quote: Arkan
        integration is needed

        http://telegrafist.org/2012/12/15/30228/
        Joining the vehicle in some areas. Yanukovych immediately offered 3 + 1. The huge probability that 3 + 1 over time (changes in laws, trade rules, customs, mutual trading) will grow into 4 (full).
        So I think we will all win. Yanukovych and Putin are bargaining and rightly so. Everyone defends national interests.
    4. Hunter
      Hunter 13 December 2012 12: 37
      -8
      Kars,
      That yes, it is. No other examples needed
    5. Oleg Rosskiyy
      Oleg Rosskiyy 15 December 2012 19: 45
      0
      Kars,
      Forgot to add South Ossetia.
  4. askort154
    askort154 13 December 2012 09: 06
    +15
    Ukraine - scales, on one bowl the southeastern part, on the other western.
    There can be no lasting equilibrium, since an artificially created state in the recent past, with a different faith and culture. Ukraine is not destined to be independent. The West and Russia put their weights on the bowls they need. Sooner or later, the scales will break and Ukraine will split. Western will go to his native Poland,
    East and South, in native Russia. The sooner the better for everyone.
    1. chisya
      chisya 13 December 2012 10: 32
      -3
      Yes, not so bad. There is a big difference between the old people from the west and the east, and the new generation has already grown up in an independent country, the more time passes, the more friendly the people will be, it just updates so to speak. All this enmity between the west and the east is more political pranks. Like all of these polls and ratings.

      The only difference is that if in the near future Ukraine integrates with Russia, then yes, the western regions will hold rallies again, but no one wants to secede, because they consider themselves "correct" Ukrainians.

      If there is integration with the EU, then believe me, few will be opposed, maybe only some pensioners fixated on the past.

      And so far, while we do not support integration with Russia, 1 out of 5 parties in parliament. Since 2015, Russia has entered the country according to his passport.

      Ukraine had already gone through the Orange Revolution, and there was a "Moscow candidate" and a "State Department beekeeper" there, and no split happened. Roughly speaking, the south and east have swallowed the western candidate. So it is in those days. And now even more so ...

      I repeat once again that the new generation as a whole loves their united country and does not want a split, a split in the minds of politicians and zhurnalyug. And friendly relations are somehow not particularly visible, here even people from the east and south will not particularly argue.

      And so, all of these imperial manners of Russia are nothing more than chatter at the moment, they turned the valve and they are inclined to obedience. About that, to enter into the composition of Russia, even in our eastern regions, there are no special ones. And 45 million people themselves are able to decide what they need.

      A part of the population still feels themselves to be citizens of the USSR, but the nation is renewing itself and people more and more consider themselves to be other people, no matter how offensive it would be to admit it.
      1. Gecko
        Gecko 13 December 2012 10: 55
        +6
        With Russia, you will not be partners first so second, and in the European Union you will be one of many and vassals of the United States.
        1. chisya
          chisya 13 December 2012 11: 15
          -1
          The trouble is that now there is not 1 leader in 1 country of the post-Soviet space, capable of uniting peoples. I do not believe in a bright future with Russia, because you have the same agents of the State Department in power, so that there would not be screaming fools. Russia simply has almost unlimited possibilities for cutting the budget thanks to its vast territory and resources.

          With such wealth and such an ass to be, this is an achievement. And the problem of the people is the same everywhere, it is a corrupt power that has huge assets in those very hated countries that are supposedly enemies.
          1. Gecko
            Gecko 13 December 2012 11: 35
            +2
            And not a single leader will be allowed to unite Russia and Ukraine by Western circles disinterested in this process, which, in my opinion, should be done by a revolutionary, irreversible process.

            About corruption in the same Europe where Italian and French tops are involved. You do not know?

            By your statements you confirm the consumer attitude of Ukraine and once again confirm the well-known saying about Jews and Ukrainians.

            Yes, and again Russia should not be blamed for everything.
            1. chisya
              chisya 13 December 2012 13: 34
              +1
              And no one blames Russia. Corruption is everywhere, but the scale is different. And what attitude in the modern world still remains besides the consumer, everyone wants to live better, or maybe Russia lives by some idea? Ukraine is not a country to conduct its own policy; there will not be enough forces. Will have to accept one of the parties.

              The weak are drawn to the strong, and who is strong now is understandable. Ukraine is weak, Russia uses this and tightens the screws as it wants. Something with Europe and America, so Russia does not manage to behave. But Ukraine is full of heroism here. And then they also talk about some kind of partnership. Business is business, that's how it works now. Only this does not add to the positiveness in the relationship.
              1. Gecko
                Gecko 13 December 2012 13: 45
                -1
                About gas, etc. then don’t howl ...
                Business is business, now everything is arranged. - In your words I parry.
                1. chisya
                  chisya 13 December 2012 13: 51
                  +1
                  So it is. And who is howling? They talk about good-neighborliness and fraternal people, they receive in return a type of expensive gas, how could it be so fraternal. The eternal story.
                  1. Gecko
                    Gecko 13 December 2012 14: 02
                    0
                    You were offered a solution to reduce the price by 2 times.
                    No, you want to eat a fish and sit on xxx.
                    1. chisya
                      chisya 13 December 2012 14: 19
                      +1
                      Raise the price, and then talk to join us and we will make a discount ... I personally do not think this is normal. Why such an alliance is needed, this is some kind of racket.
                      1. Gecko
                        Gecko 13 December 2012 14: 33
                        0
                        Yushchenko himself tore up a contract that was beneficial for you, when Tymoshenko signed another, no one kept a gun at her temple.

                        Another example, they broke an agreement with Rosatom for the supply of fuel to nuclear power plants in favor of an American company ...
                        Problems began with the reactors, ran to us again to fix everything again and urgently delivered fuel for the nuclear power plant ...

                        Necha blame the mirror ...
                      2. Manager
                        Manager 13 December 2012 14: 52
                        0
                        Quote: chisya

                        To raise the price

                        And this despite the fact that the price for you is lower than usual for all others. Interesting girls are dancing!
                      3. chisya
                        chisya 13 December 2012 15: 14
                        +1
                        For CIS countries gas at $ 330-350
                        For Germany, gas in November was $ 419
                        For Ukraine, gas in November was $ 432, taking into account a discount of $ 100 for the deployment of the Black Sea fleet.
                        That is, the price without a discount is $ 532.
                      4. Gecko
                        Gecko 13 December 2012 15: 29
                        +3
                        I repeat. Yushchenko himself tore up a contract favorable to you.
                      5. chisya
                        chisya 13 December 2012 15: 43
                        0
                        Yes, everything there is generally obscure with contracts of that period, but there’s nothing to be taken away - Yushchenko is still a nit, he did everything he could to worsen relations, there was not only gas, but also arms supplies on 08.08.08, a famine, a revision of history.

                        Only now people got rid of it, and the price of gas under Yanukovych has become even greater and continues to grow gradually.
                      6. Gecko
                        Gecko 13 December 2012 16: 35
                        +2
                        Gas, unfortunately, is becoming more expensive inside Russia ...
                      7. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 45
                        -8
                        Quote: gecko
                        Gas, unfortunately, is becoming more expensive inside Russia ...

                        Oh, super - well done!

                        Expert: cheap gas from Ukraine to Mitny Soyuzu - ce mіf
                        At the time of Ukraine’s recognition to the Mitny Union, a low gas price doesn’t mean “fair price”; Taku Dumka in the commentary of Tyzhden.ua hanging economist Maxim Bugriy.

                        http://tyzhden.ua/News/67494
                      8. Manager
                        Manager 13 December 2012 15: 49
                        +3
                        Quote: chisya

                        For CIS countries gas at $ 330-350
                        For Germany, gas in November was $ 419
                        For Ukraine, gas in November was $ 432, taking into account a discount of $ 100 for the deployment of the Black Sea fleet.
                        That is, the price without a discount is $ 532.



                        Uhahaha .... Komersant damn. And you did not take into account how much Ukraine takes for gas transit from Russia? Or did you think the price was invested? if you take into account the price for transit through the country, then the cost of gas for you is 150-200 bucks
                      9. chisya
                        chisya 13 December 2012 16: 17
                        -5
                        What is transit in general? This is a completely separate topic. In addition to Ukraine, the CIS and EU countries also transit at similar rates.

                        If you write in your style, then: uhuhuhu, but you did not take into account how much Russia cuts dough thanks to this transit? So for Ukraine, in general, everything should be free. 180+ billion cubic meters of gas is pumped.
                      10. Manager
                        Manager 13 December 2012 17: 19
                        +2
                        Quote: chisya
                        So for Ukraine in general, everything should be free


                        That is the whole point. What do you think that everyone owes you everything. What are your favorites.
                        You don’t even want to take into account what you take for transit more than others. In general, good luck with such a vision of situevina.
                      11. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 17: 24
                        -10
                        Quote: Manager
                        What are your favorites.

                        No, we believe that you are not elected.
                      12. mazdie
                        mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 01
                        +1
                        And I believe that the Slavs are all elected !!! drinks
                      13. chisya
                        chisya 13 December 2012 17: 38
                        -2
                        Manager,

                        What kind of nonsense? Which favorites, or did you take seriously for free about wink ? The price for transit is not the highest, but the amount of gas being distilled is yes. As if Ukraine only wins on gas transit, while Russia is pumping itself at a loss?

                        In general, this is a bad topic, as long as Ukraine has independence, there is just as much dependence on Russian gas with constant claims.

                        Do not take everything so critical.
                      14. mazdie
                        mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 00
                        0
                        Not long left, just a little bit more and transit through Ukraine will not be
                      15. Quit
                        Quit 13 December 2012 23: 00
                        0
                        Well, you want to say that it’s from a great mind? We will lose 2,4 billion from transit, and you will lose 11 billion of gas revenues from Ukraine.
                      16. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 16: 34
                        -4
                        Quote: Manager
                        Ukraine for gas transit from Russia?

                        I’m you, too, that same kommersant --- but what difference does it cost? For us, the price is at the border. And if my memory serves me, Slovenia has the highest tariff.
                        Quote: Manager
                        if you take into account the price for transit through the country, then the cost of gas for you is 150-200 bucks

                        can I give you the numbers, so that everyone would laugh at you? But even so, the gas price in Germany cannot be higher than for Ukraine if only economic factors are used.
                      17. Manager
                        Manager 13 December 2012 17: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        I’m you, too, that same komersant --- but what difference does it take?


                        Yes, the main difference is that you also take more than others. In general, you are a strange nation. You think everyone owes you. In a stranger’s eye you see a baby in your shmatka, you don’t notice fat.
                        Bye! I thought you were smarter. And you are the usual stubborn cunning Crest.
                      18. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 18: 32
                        -3
                        Quote: Manager
                        Yes, the main difference is that you also take more than others

                        Than who? Just count as right units
                        Quote: Manager
                        I thought you were smarter

                        what horror did not justify the high confidence, by the way I didn’t think so of you.
                      19. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 12
                        -3
                        Quote: chisya
                        about there is a price without a discount of $ 532.

                        Our price excluding transit is 254.
                      20. Manager
                        Manager 13 December 2012 16: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Hunter
                        Our price excluding transit is 254.

                        That is what this is about. And then some especially wise businessmen here calculated otherwise =)
                      21. chisya
                        chisya 13 December 2012 16: 29
                        -4
                        Well, let's calculate on such schemes for other countries, too, which is only for Ukraine.

                        Well, for example, Bulgaria received gas at $ 83 in exchange for a low transit rate.

                        For Germany, a special discount in connection with a strategic partnership and gas at $ 286
                      22. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 17: 13
                        -7
                        Manager,
                        Still ahead, like the Gazdep prospect ...
                    2. Nose
                      Nose 13 December 2012 14: 31
                      +6
                      Quote: gecko

                      You were offered a solution to reduce the price by 2 times.
                      No, you want to eat a fish and sit on xxx.

                      Yes, they have nothing to do with it! Who asked them?!. request
      2. Skavron
        Skavron 13 December 2012 11: 09
        -4
        chisya plus !!!!
  5. Oleg14774
    Oleg14774 13 December 2012 09: 24
    +18
    No need to graduate from institutes in order to understand that together hell who will overcome us, but separately!
    Even my grandmother told me about the "broom", which cannot be broken, when I went to school (this is about friendship, cooperation and unification). In those days, I could not even imagine that the USSR would collapse.
    The people are not stupid and understands all this, there is pressure on the government. They say unite with Russia, Moscow will not allow stealing as much as it wants, you will be "independent" steal as much as you want, just do not restore education, medicine, defense, destroy culture, instill a sense of inferiority in the nation that the USSR has unleashed a war. This is an appeal to the corrupt leaders of the country.
    The people cannot be fooled. Over there, in Kharkov, I have not heard that they talked in Ukrainian mov! For some reason they speak Russian. And all because it is essentially one language, with peculiarities in pronunciation and writing, because we are one nation, and we are "divided" artificially and "dominated".
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 13 December 2012 12: 28
      +7
      Quote: Oleg147741
      No need to graduate from institutes in order to understand that together hell who will overcome us, but separately!

      I agree with you completely!
      Quote: Oleg147741
      Moscow will not let you steal as much as you want

      But this already raises doubts. The fact is that the only real reason why the Russian Black Sea Fleet was kicked out of Odessa in the mid-90s is banal theft (the "last straw" was the dismantling of the existing navigation equipment by the Russians), and this theft was not covered up just by the command of the fleet, but in general by the leadership of Russia. And what was happening at that time in Crimea? Perhaps, in those years, it did not come to a real war only for two reasons: 1) the counterintelligence of the Black Sea Fleet took the oath of oath to Ukraine (and thanks to their agents it was possible to "strangle" an attempt to tear away Crimea from Ukraine in the bud, 2) Russia got bogged down in Chechnya. Russia removed Admiral Baltin, it became calmer, but no one wants a repetition of those events in Ukraine. And the phrase "Moscow will not allow stealing ..." theft in Russia, by God, is ironic. Rather, this phrase should sound like this "Moscow will not allow Ukrainian officials to steal, but will give Russian officials. And whoever is against is a nationalist."
      With respect.
      1. Kars
        Kars 13 December 2012 12: 36
        -2
        Quote: Arkan
        "Moscow will not allow Ukrainian officials to steal, but will give Russian officials. And whoever is against is a nationalist."

        Exactly,
      2. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 13 December 2012 13: 17
        +2
        Quote: Arkan
        The fact is that the only real reason why the Russian Black Sea Fleet was thrown out of Odessa in the mid-90s is banal theft (the "last straw" was the dismantling of the existing navigation equipment by the Russians), and this theft was covered not just by the command of the fleet, but in general by the leadership Of Russia

        That's for sure. Then it came to the capture (Glory to the Gods without shots and blood) of the naval brigade landing. The BDK Black Sea Fleet with the MP entered the raid of Odessa. I heard later that our "Alpha" was working on them.
        In Crimea, the capture of the Ukrainian MP Russian tank regiment. The situation worsened seriously. Repeatedly, the Airborne Forces were alerted to a flight to the Crimea, etc. They stood on the brink.
        If you compare the current situation and then - the rapprochement is huge. I am for politicians, not for nations.
        1. Arkan
          Arkan 13 December 2012 13: 53
          0
          Quote: gladiatorakz
          I heard later that our "Alpha" was working on them

          If you are about the events in Odessa - the usual parachute landing company.
        2. Arkan
          Arkan 13 December 2012 14: 19
          +3
          The end of that story was the first disconnection of the gas from Russia to Ukraine. As a result, the guarantor of "territorial integrity and independence .." trying to get Crimea lost all of Ukraine. The Ukrainian press did not particularly cover these events so as not to escalate the situation, but in the Russian press hysterics began, which continues to this day. Yes, and all this gave Ukrainian nationalists an excellent basis for propaganda.
  6. Apollo
    Apollo 13 December 2012 09: 41
    +9
    quote-The American government is once again making every effort to push Russia and Ukraine against its foreheads.

    1.a why only Russia and Ukraine, all countries of the world are trying to push their heads together.
    2. It is not for nothing that Anglo-Saxon blood flows in the veins of Americans, the principle of "divide and conquer" inherited from their great-grandfathers.
    3. Until there will be a multipolar world on the planet. The USA will do its mess.
    4.by 2030 year, China will bypass the United States in economic power, and there it is close at hand to the military.
    5. Neither the US nor the EU absolutely need to strengthen the economic power of the two above states.
    6.Force Russia in unity with two other states, Ukraine and Belarus.
    1. Ruslan
      Ruslan 13 December 2012 09: 58
      +6
      Quote: Apollon
      It is not for nothing that Anglo-Saxon blood flows in the veins of the Americans, the principle of "divide and rule" inherited from their great-grandfathers.

      The peak of the mafia-financial pyramid is headed not by the Anglo-Saxons, but by the Jews of Baruch, the Rodsheldy Leiba Schiffa, and their family’s Kuns, who became related to each other - such as the Rockefellers only their stewards. Here is a good article read
      http://www.personal-plus.net/ru/197/105.html
  7. Akim
    Akim 13 December 2012 09: 43
    +9
    Sorry until I read the text. Today, militants can execute Ankhar Kochnevu and outlaw embassies and citizens of Russia and Ukraine. Outrage of my patient nature, there is no limit !!!
    1. Che
      Che 13 December 2012 10: 00
      +5
      Akim,
      In no law it is necessary to declare this rat tribe along with the amers. And pursue them according to the law.
    2. Arkan
      Arkan 13 December 2012 12: 39
      +5
      Probably you need to take bats and hammers, take to the streets and rivet all the British, Americans, French, Jews who came to hand ... all whose countries stuck their snout in Syria. After the Americans destroyed the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia and the death of three Chinese - In such a tricky way, China forced itself to be respected.
  8. domokl
    domokl 13 December 2012 09: 47
    +4
    It seems to me that the West has missed the time when it was possible to make another country from Ukraine, a supplier of resources and slaves ... In the years when Yanek ruled and a lady with a kalacha on her head could accept the country into the EU almost painlessly ... But also rapprochement with Russia under a huge question .. I understand that now many Ukrainians will be indignant that this is not so .. But, look at the composition of the new Rada and understand everything ..
    1. Che
      Che 13 December 2012 09: 58
      +5
      According to the former American ambassador to Ukraine Stephen Pifer, rapprochement between Ukraine and Russia, instead of European integration, will harm Ukraine first of all.

      First of all, Ukraine will be harmed by the interference of Fashington in our all-Russian affairs. Since there are no Ukrainians, we are one people of RUSA.
      1. domokl
        domokl 13 December 2012 10: 17
        +3
        The Americans really want to destroy the second largest European country ... As long as Ukraine is united, it is invincible ... But three small Ukrainian states are turning into some kind of useless Romania and the Baltic states ...
        1. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 14 December 2012 10: 41
          0
          Quote: domokl
          The Americans really want to destroy the second largest European country ... As long as Ukraine is united, it is invincible ... But three small Ukrainian states are turning into some kind of useless Romania and the Baltic states ...

          Divide and rule.
          Perhaps it is time for Ukraine and Russia to recognize the Lokot Indians as the only legitimate US government. As an adequate response.
      2. Hunter
        Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 20
        -8
        Quote: Che
        First of all, Ukraine will be harmed by the interference of Fashington in our all-Russian affairs. Since there are no Ukrainians, we are one people of RUSA.

        So maybe as the first step, let's move on to talking to Ukrainians?
        1. skullcap
          skullcap 13 December 2012 15: 53
          0
          Hunter Today, 13: 20
          So maybe as the first step, let's move on to talking to Ukrainians?
          ---------------------------------
          I once wrote on this, in fact, a very serious issue.
          Our common language, due to the fact that different parts of the people have lived for centuries in different conditions, with time it became somewhat different.
          This discrepancy can not even close to put with the difference in the Germanic languages, which existed before the unification of Germany.
          However, the Germans had the wisdom to adopt a single common language, which served as the main foundation for the subsequent Germanic power in all spheres of human activity: in science, in economics, in military affairs, and in art, etc. The Germans pride themselves primarily on the fact that they are Deutsche, and only then that the Saxons, the Bavarians, and so on.
          Until now, the Germans are definitely positive about this step.
          We should also take from them an example of popular wisdom.
          And the language, since every gopher is an agronomist, and believes that it is in his village or farm that the dialect is the most correct, so that no one is hurt, we must work out on the basis of our common language in which we spoke at a common time.
          Create a trilateral commission from philologists and let them clear all borrowed non-native from the current dialects, and create an all-Russian modern language. (Fmnny, for example, even found the native word for the printer).
          By the way, then some ukrov will not be offended that the Russians allegedly stole their nationality name.
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 18
            -8
            Quote: kosopuz
            Our common language, due to the fact that different parts of the people have lived for centuries in different conditions, with time it became somewhat different.

            From the Ukrainian language it will turn out in the roots Old Slavonic, from Russian - the language of the Buranov grandmothers. The traditional “okanie” of the hinterland of Russia is nothing more than an incomplete process of Russification of the Ugra-Finns.
            I will understand any Slav of Europe, like me. You are not.
            1. mazdie
              mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 12
              0
              This is what it is, but 140 million is still more difficult to retrain.
        2. Homer
          Homer 13 December 2012 15: 57
          +3
          There was Little Russia in Russia, and Ukraine, that is, the Outskirts, it became under the Poles!
          And under the European Union, it will be only the outskirts, and nothing more. So no one expects the ancient Okra in Europe.
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 13 December 2012 17: 13
            +1
            Quote: Homer
            There was Little Russia in Russia, and Ukraine, that is, the Outskirts, it became under the Poles

            Yes, actually there was neither Ukraine nor Russia but there were principalities: Kiev, Turov, Pskov, Novgorod and so on. Then, due to various reasons, they united in two camps: the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Grand Duchy of Moscow. The ON was allied with the Poles and the Navy with the Tatars and at times fought among themselves with varying success. That's where it is. And who is more Russian than Russian is hard to say.
            1. Hunter
              Hunter 13 December 2012 17: 25
              -9
              saturn.mmm,
              Can you say what the Russian republic is not in the Russian Federation?
              1. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 13 December 2012 17: 48
                +1
                Quote: Hunter
                Can you say what the Russian republic is not in the Russian Federation?

                Sure, not a problem. Russia-introduced Peter the Great with respect to the entire territory that subsequently became the Russian Federation.
                1. Hunter
                  Hunter 13 December 2012 17: 59
                  -2
                  saturn.mmm,
                  Well, so the federation or Russia?
        3. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 14 December 2012 10: 48
          +1
          Quote: Hunter
          So maybe as the first step, let's move on to talking to Ukrainians?

          I would suggest returning to the language before the Lunocharsky reform. Then Our Alphabet changed to the alphabet. Changed the whole picture of the world to entire generations.
          A small example: Everyone has heard an expression like I am the last letter in the alphabet. Means - do not stick your nickel, sit on the ass level and your turn is the last. In AzBuk - Az Esm (I am !!!) the first letter. With the realization of their existence and significance, the formation of a Free Man begins.
    2. mazdie
      mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 10
      0
      Not Yanek, but Yushchenko
  9. nnnnnn
    nnnnnn 13 December 2012 10: 10
    +5
    let there be no union, while the agents of the State Department are in power in Russia, in Ukraine
  10. Aeneas
    Aeneas 13 December 2012 10: 40
    -6
    I have long suspected that Gazprom is actually the State Department!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 13 December 2012 10: 48
      +2
      Quote: Aeneas
      I have long suspected that Gazprom is actually the State Department!

      How did you guess?
    2. Gecko
      Gecko 13 December 2012 11: 00
      -3
      Gazprom at least sells gas to you for heating.
      And the State Department will only tell you tales about a better life.
      1. dimon-media
        dimon-media 13 December 2012 11: 14
        0
        That's right, colleague. GazProm sells them gas at DEMOCRATIC prices making discounts, unlike geyropi. But what Ukraine has given geyrop and syshya, I still can not understand. In my opinion they were given only pseudo-democracy, mixed with promises of a better life. Wow, so brainwash ... to what people are blind. They believe empty words, not the realities of our lives.
        1. revnagan
          revnagan 13 December 2012 13: 11
          +3
          Quote: dimon-media
          GazProm sells them gas at DEMOCRATIC prices making discounts, unlike geyropa.

          Then please explain to me why Russian gas from Germany without discounts is cheaper by as much as 80 cu of Russian gas from Russia at a discount? I, as an ordinary Ukrainian citizen, Russian by nationality and an ardent supporter of the unification of Russia and Ukraine, are very interested in this.
          And to unite - at least for now, but on equal terms and without oligarchs. Then their oligarchs behave like occupiers, so what if the oligarchs come from the outside?
          1. Vladimir 70
            Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 13: 34
            +7
            Then please explain to me why Russian gas from Germany without discounts is cheaper by as much as 80 cu of Russian gas from Russia at a discount? I, as an ordinary Ukrainian citizen, Russian by nationality and an ardent supporter of the unification of Russia and Ukraine, are very interested in this.
            Explain: Russia sells gas to Ukraine according to the signed agreement! Now on. Putin is a bastard who broke such a price for gas for the fraternal people of Ukraine? .... Of course a bastard! But, before condemning Putin, Ukraine at the state level must explicitly state that the old treaties were broken off by US State Department President Yushchenko, while signing a new treaty, Tymoshenko was pressured by a freezing Europe as the future President of Ukraine. Accordingly, Ukraine must first condemn its own - Yushchenko-Judah and Yulia-hydrocarbon, and frankly say by whose orders these clowns acted, and only then claims to Russia.
            And to unite - at least for now, but on equal terms and without oligarchs. Then their oligarchs behave like occupiers, so what if the oligarchs come from the outside?
            I think that if the "Ukrainian" Firtash is replaced by the "Russian" Abramovich, the people of Ukraine will not notice much.
            1. Kars
              Kars 13 December 2012 13: 52
              -3
              Quote: Vladimir 70
              when signing a new agreement, Tymoshenko was pressured

              Rather, a criminal case against the EUU was initiated in the Russian Federation and debts. And the GDP, as a true gebist, recalled the skills of recruitment
              Quote: Vladimir 70
              I think that when uniting, if the "Ukrainian" Firtash is replaced by the "Russian" Abramovich, the people of Ukraine will not notice much

              they will notice - the poets will notice --- and if they don’t notice, then it means there will be no improvement ---- then WHY?
              1. Vladimir 70
                Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 14: 05
                +1
                Rather, a criminal case against the EUU was initiated in the Russian Federation and debts. And the GDP, as a true gebist, recalled the skills of recruitment
                It is all clear that Putin, as a true KGB agent, "caught" Yulia, but the ears of freezing Europe are also sticking out there. Europe could not allow it. so that its population would freeze while there is a showdown. This is what they are silent about. Everyone is afraid to say so.
                they will notice - the poets will notice --- and if they don’t notice, then it means there will be no improvement ---- then WHY?
                I also believe that the Customs Union will not give anything to the population of Ukraine (there will be an ordinary squabble) until the financial world system based on $ is destroyed. But you have to start with something.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 13 December 2012 14: 41
                  -2
                  Quote: Vladimir 70
                  freezing Europe

                  Europe doesn’t care how much Ukraine pays for gas. Like Yulke and Yushch then to Europe.
                  Quote: Vladimir 70
                  But you have to start with something.

                  but obviously not from that.
                  1. Vladimir 70
                    Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 15: 00
                    +4
                    Europe doesn’t care how much Ukraine pays for gas. Like Yulke and Yushch then to Europe.
                    It is clear that Geyrope POFIG how much Ukraine pays for gas, the main thing is that it does not freeze. The fact that Yushch did not care about Geyrop at that time is also understandable, he was already a "dead politician" and he had a good roof from the US State Department. That's why he "turned off" the phone and went skiing. But Yulia could not send Geyropa, as she was going to be the President of Ukraine, well, and had to make concessions to Putin. Then we must say frankly that Ukraine received such a price for gas not only at the request of Putin, but also because of its clowns who complied with the instructions of the United States and Europe.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 13 December 2012 15: 20
                      0
                      Quote: Vladimir 70
                      but also because of their clowns who complied with the instructions of the USA and Europe

                      The United States was especially worried that Slovenia would freeze.
                      Here it is not necessary to attract by the ears that which is not.
                      It’s a clean side of Yulia’s, and let her .. lie down on every talk show otmazyvatsa, it won’t help them. Even that kind of like a discount for the first year from GDP is a clear showdown so that the braid for president would pass, then the circus would start .And Europe didn’t care if GAZ licked the tax for which they ALREADY paid. Yushchenko was simply not a man, he had everything after Orange to change the country, but he leaked everything. Burn him for it))))))
                      1. Eraser
                        Eraser 13 December 2012 16: 01
                        +4
                        Well, yes, I honestly don’t understand how Yusch could have done that, it’s really beyond my imagination. With 65% support, go down to 5%. wassat and the State Department did not help. wink
                      2. Arkan
                        Arkan 13 December 2012 20: 02
                        +2
                        Quote: Eraser
                        With support at 65%, go down to 5%. wassat and the State Department did not help

                        Yes, people did not understand his jokes with Ukraine’s entry into NATO, it cost him dearly. Someone screwed up somewhere. laughing
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 20: 45
                        0
                        Quote: Arkan
                        Yes, people didn’t understand his jokes with Ukraine’s entry into NATO,

                        Rather, I did not understand the deterioration in economic welfare. I remember with Yulka an example before the elections, we paid taxes for six months in advance, and try to refuse.
                      4. Arkan
                        Arkan 14 December 2012 12: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Rather, I did not understand the deterioration in economic welfare. I remember with Yulka an example before the elections, we paid taxes for six months in advance, and try to refuse.

                        Of course, there were several reasons for such a drop in the rating (these are unfulfilled promises, and the very fact of "bickering" between the orange who seized power ...), but he comes from the Sumy region, and many in the east voted for him as a "fellow countryman and not a bandit ", in the next elections he lost these votes.
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 14 December 2012 14: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Arkan
                        in the east they voted for him as a "fellow countryman and not a bandit"

                        I did not go to those elections.
                        On the next, he voted for Yanyka, because from one glance at the scythe with a crucible it began to telepath.
                      6. revnagan
                        revnagan 13 December 2012 23: 55
                        +2
                        Quote: Eraser
                        With support at 65%, go down to 5%. and the State Department did not help.

                        5% you are bent. 0,5% is his true rating.
                      7. Pablo
                        Pablo 14 December 2012 19: 38
                        0
                        32% support is the largest that all orange had together, separately for the crocodile 11% ;, now their freedom has gained, the same evil fagots
                      8. Vladimir 70
                        Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 16: 06
                        +6
                        The United States was especially worried that Slovenia would freeze.
                        The United States, on the contrary, was interested in making Europe freeze, then blaming all the troubles on the "evil Muscovites"
                        It’s a clean side of Yulia’s, and let her .. lie down on every talk show otmazyvatsa, it won’t help them. Even that kind of like a discount for the first year from GDP is a clear showdown so that the braid for president would pass, then the circus would start .And Europe didn’t care if GAZ licked the tax for which they ALREADY paid
                        It is clear that this is Julia's side! But she had nowhere to go. After that, Russia stopped supplying gas to Ukraine (no agreement was signed between Russia and Ukraine), and gas was supplied to Europe (plus Russia made an advance payment for pumping gas) - Ukraine was forced to take part of the gas for its own needs. Russia immediately began to reduce the volume of supplies taken by Ukraine. Europe began to whine, where is the gas? She was told that the entire volume was released at the border, so Ukraine stole it. "Then Ukraine for its needs (eastern regions) began to raise gas from its western storages and drive it to the East of the country in reverse mode. But Europe again became not up to receiving gas , Russia and this time accused Ukraine of theft, although Ukraine did not take gas for its needs! Then the so-called "technical" gas "surfaced". To push a certain amount of gas through the pipe, you need additional gas that will push it. did not supply, so at that time there was no contract for gas supplies to Ukraine and Ukraine did not pay. Ukraine always paid for the so-called technical gas, it settled in our storage facilities and Ukraine used it. Remember that at that time representatives of Ukraine, Russia, Europe organized a "circus" near the meters on the border with Russia, scratched their turnips and were surprised at the volume of gas released, but not all of it reached Europe. And Geyropa all this time was freezing, began to put pressure on Tymoshenko and e And there was no choice but to make concessions to Putin (and Yusch at that time, at the behest of the United States, with his phone turned off, was skiing.) ........
                        Yushchenko is simply not a man, he had everything after Orange to change the country, and he leaked everything. Burn him for it
                        Damn, yes Yusch was not going to change anything !!!!!! He did everything that was required of him by the owners to finely spoil the eastern neighbor! What is small? in the fact that even the mind was not enough to spoil the big ....
                      9. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 16: 38
                        -4
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        this time at the behest of the USA

                        continue to make laugh? Why didn’t they take us to NATO at the direction of the USA? Why, at the direction of the USA, in Ukraine there are no US military bases.

                        No need to look for someone to blame.
                      10. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 47
                        -10
                        Quote: Kars
                        Why weren’t they taking us to NATO at the behest of the USA?

                        We could already be in NATO, but Yanyk wants to run short. But we will be there.
                      11. mazdie
                        mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 21
                        +1
                        You will never, you fuck there are not needed. You were used in full.
                      12. Vladimir 70
                        Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 17: 09
                        +3
                        continue to make laugh? Why didn’t they take us to NATO at the direction of the USA? Why, at the direction of the USA, in Ukraine there are no US military bases.
                        We just didn’t have time ..... one can recall the letter signed "on the sly" by the cheerful trinity of Yushchenko, Yatsenyuk, Tymoshenko to the NATO Secretary General, which indicated that Ukraine expects to join the Action Plan for NATO membership
                      13. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 17: 27
                        -8
                        Vladimir 70,
                        Calm down, all strategic plans are written for years to come. Ukraine is already registered in NATO and the EU.
                      14. Vladimir 70
                        Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 17: 33
                        +2
                        Calm down, all strategic plans are written for years to come. Ukraine in NATO and the EU are already registered
                        Oh well.....
                      15. mazdie
                        mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 22
                        0
                        And they try to continue to use, but with caution.
                      16. revnagan
                        revnagan 14 December 2012 00: 01
                        0
                        Quote: Hunter
                        Calm down, all strategic plans are written for years to come. Ukraine is already registered in NATO and the EU.

                        Well, I made fun of it. With such incomes as Ukrainians (average salary of UAH 3075, is that a skoka in EUREKA?), Strategic plans can be seen not for years in advance, but for centuries. So, in 500-600 years and will grow to the level income of Europeans. Or do you expect to enter the EU with such incomes during your lifetime? Straight, as in the joke: "Such a balchel, but you are in skats."
                      17. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 18: 26
                        -6
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Just do not have time .....

                        For four years, and failed? For how many took Poland and the Baltic states?

                        And another stupid question, if Yusch was a Yankees hirelings, then why did they merge him so quickly? And he basically lost the election because of gas.
                        So nekleitsa, write off everything in the United States is not available --- our personal struggle for power.

                        But personally, I don’t want NATO. There is no sense.
                      18. Vladimir 70
                        Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 18: 48
                        +2
                        For four years, and failed? For how many took Poland and the Baltic states?
                        Just the population of Ukraine, different from the population of Poland and the Baltic states.
                        And another stupid question, if Yusch was a Yankees hirelings, then why did they merge him so quickly? And he basically lost the election because of gas.
                        Let me answer the question with a question. Why then did the US "merge" Mishka Saakashvili? Just don't say, there is democracy in Georgia. Second, Yusch did everything he had to do, and then there was zero benefit from him, only irritation among the population of Ukraine.
                        So nekleitsa, write off everything in the United States is not available --- our personal struggle for power.
                        Here I completely agree with you. There is a struggle between groups for the opportunity to raid the country. What is the cost of signing a contract with a "skier"
                      19. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 19: 55
                        -1
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Just the population of Ukraine

                        What is the population? In its majority, it will not even decipher the abbreviation, such as someone asked when they entered the WTO.
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        ... Why then did the USA "merge" Mishka Saakashvili? Just don't say it, there is democracy in Georgia

                        And who said that the United States merged it, and not he merged? And why should Georgia compare with us?
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        The second Yusch did everything that he had to accomplish, and then he was doing nothing good, only irritation among the population of Ukraine.

                        And what did he specifically do? Especially what is beneficial to the US?
                      20. Vladimir 70
                        Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 20: 32
                        +2
                        What is the population? In its majority, it will not even decipher the abbreviation, such as someone asked when they entered the WTO.
                        With the entry of Ukraine, not everything is so simple. At least recall a letter to the Secretary General of NATO. For some reason, it was necessary to hide the presence of the letter. And it is not known how Russia would behave.
                        And who said that the United States merged it, and not he merged? And why should Georgia compare with us?
                        You really think that Bear himself merged. I did not compare Georgia with Ukraine, but Sakashvili and Yushchenko. Both came to power with the money of the Anglo-Saxons through color revolutions.
                        And what did he specifically do? Especially what is beneficial to the US?
                        Disgraced the West and East of Ukraine, the gap in economic ties with Russia
                      21. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 20: 43
                        -5
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        For some reason, it was necessary to hide the presence of the letter

                        Do you know all the letters?
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        And it is not known how Russia would behave

                        Like Yusche if he has everything from the USA to ointments for FSUs? What can she do if we decide to join? They are friends with NATO themselves, let Aegis the cruiser to their submarine bases.
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Do you really think that Bear himself merged

                        Yes, I think, in addition, Ivanishvili is not going to change something radically in relation to the United States or the Russian Federation. So what happened to you was draining sewed on soap?
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Both came to power with the money of the Anglo-Saxons through color revolutions.

                        I did not count that money, and I know quite normal people who were for Yushchenko.

                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Disgraced the West and East of Ukraine

                        Personally, I did not notice any changes, despite the fact that I communicate regularly. As the banderlogs were in 2000, they remained so. I don’t like that they consider themselves .. real Ukrainians ..
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        severance of economic ties with Russia

                        Is there such a rupture? What about Yushch AN-70 started talking, that after. Although it doesn't seem to you that Yushch would help the Russian Federation to weld more dough on us on gas, and save up for an aircraft carrier.
                        And for example, the Russian Federation did not withdraw the base from Sevastopol --- how can we say that Yusch did everything?
                      22. Vladimir 70
                        Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 21: 10
                        +1
                        Do you know all the letters? Like Yusche if he has everything from the USA to ointments for FSUs? What can she do if we decide to join? They are friends with NATO themselves, let Aegis the cruiser to their submarine bases.
                        Of course I don’t know for all the letters. It seems to me that the population of Eastern Ukraine would not accept NATO, and most likely Russia would begin to act more aggressively towards the United States. It could be Iran and Afghanistan ....
                        Yes, I think, in addition, Ivanishvili is not going to change something radically in relation to the United States or the Russian Federation. So what happened to you was draining sewed on soap?
                        I agree that the course of Ivanishvili is not very different from Sakashvili. Just Bear already tired and it was easier to change.
                        I did not count that money, and I know quite normal people who were for Yushchenko.
                        Any revolution with the money of the Anglo-Saxons will not benefit Ukraine.
                        Personally, I did not notice any changes, despite the fact that I communicate regularly. As the banderlogs were in 2000, they remained so. I don’t like that they consider themselves .. real Ukrainians ..
                        The changes seemed to me ... Banderlogs became more aggressive.
                        Is there such a rupture? What about Yushch AN-70 started talking, that after. Although it doesn't seem to you that Yushch would help the Russian Federation to weld more dough on us on gas, and save up for an aircraft carrier.
                        And for example, the Russian Federation did not withdraw the base from Sevastopol --- how can we say that Yusch did everything?
                        Well, with the An-70, Ukraine was going to build this plane with Europe under Kravchuk for NATO. True, the Europeans then refused. Yusch could not drive out the base in Sevastopol, the contract was until 2017. But the production of aircraft engines Russia has already begun to produce for its own needs. Ukrainian uses only for export. Refused orders in shipbuilding and repair of Black Sea Fleet ships, rocket science ...
                      23. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 21: 24
                        -3
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        It seems to me that the population of Eastern Ukraine would not accept NATO

                        I am against the WTO and what's next? Maybe a hundred pensioners gathered in the square.
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        most likely Russia began to act more aggressively in relation to the United States.

                        and now she’s not aggressive with them because Ukraine is not in NATO, but Poland, the Baltic states, Turkey is okay — it’s not Ukraine.
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        It could be Iran and Afghanistan ....

                        Libya banged? and? Syria will be finished soon.
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Well, with the An-70, Ukraine was going to build this plane with Europe under Kravchuk for NATO
                        and then with the Russian Federation

                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Yushch could not drive out the base in Sevastopol, the agreement was until 2017.

                        But he would certainly not extend the lease during the second term.
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Refused orders in shipbuilding and repair of Black Sea Fleet ships, rocket science ...

                        It’s strange it seems like there was a Sea Launch and Satan’s service remained. And the rest --- elementary savings --- for the Russian Federation then there was also a crisis, although not very big.

                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Just Bear already tired and it was easier to change.

                        Yes, but the network was changed to the same one and not with the opposite sign - and even if I’m not mistaken, Mishiko is still the president.
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        But the production of aircraft engines

                        The motor both worked and works --- the representation in the Persian Gulf is expanding.

                        I just didn’t understand what was the benefit of the USA, besides the loss of the manual President, for which the type of runoff was paid.
                      24. Vladimir 70
                        Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 21: 44
                        +2
                        I just didn’t understand what was the benefit of the USA, besides the loss of the manual President, for which the type of runoff was paid.
                        Yusch fulfilled his task, the process of Ukraine's collapse into the West and the East was launched. Now, at the right time, you can start a civil war. Just don't say that this is not possible in Ukraine. Plus, the rupture of economic ties with Russia in aircraft manufacturing, rocketry and shipbuilding, and this is all in front of the "grandiose nix" in the world. Russia will now need time to organize production on its territory
                      25. Kars
                        Kars 13 December 2012 21: 55
                        -2
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Yusch completed his task

                        Task, task --- what nafig task? What did he accomplish? By his actions he only discounted the western path of integration - they didn’t take it to the EU. They didn’t take it to NATO, the majority of the population became sick from the famine.
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        the process of the collapse of Ukraine to the West and East has been launched.

                        What process? I'm belittling you--
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Now, at the right time, you can launch a civil war.

                        And in 2004-5 it was impossible to start it? Like then west and east were inextricably water)))) 0
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Plus, the rupture of economic ties with Russia in aircraft construction, rocketry and shipbuilding, and this is all in front of the "grandiose nix" in the world

                        YES there was nothing, why there are only talking rooms.
                        Quote: Vladimir 70
                        Russia will now need time to organize production on its territory

                        When did Bulava and Sineva begin to do? What did Yuzhny do for the Russian Federation on military matters? How does he continue to carry out routine maintenance at the Silan silo of Satan, then he did. What did Ukraine build from ships for the Russian Federation under Kuchma? What plane did Kuchma do for the Russian Federation? Is it Ukraine had to make efforts for a full tank production cycle when Russia tried to disrupt the Pakistan contract.
                        So I'm sorry, but Yushchenko didn’t do anything useful for the USA.
                      26. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 13 December 2012 23: 51
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        YES and there was nothing, why only talking rooms

                        When needed, Rosatom bought one plant in Ukraine and two in the Czech Republic and nevermind the European Union.
                      27. Pablo
                        Pablo 14 December 2012 19: 54
                        0
                        RUSSIA OFFERED THE PRICE OF $ 260, EUROPE FINALLY REFUSED, THEN, FROM NABUCCO, the US orders Yushchenko-starts a gas war, demanding $ 190. maximum. Europe is frozen, the United States is shouting in the controlled press about "nasty Russians" who are strangling the young democracy, and demanding from occupied Europe to continue building Nabucco to avoid "blackmail", Europe agrees Fine commedia
                      28. Pablo
                        Pablo 14 December 2012 19: 32
                        -1
                        RUSSIA OFFERED THE PRICE OF $ 260, EUROPE FINALLY REFUSED, THEN, FROM NABUCCO, the US orders Yushchenko-starts a gas war, demanding $ 190. maximum. Europe is frozen, the United States is shouting in the controlled press about "nasty Russians" who are strangling the young democracy, and demanding from occupied Europe to continue building Nabucco to avoid "blackmail", Europe agrees Fine commedia
            2. wax
              wax 13 December 2012 14: 02
              +4
              Yusch and Julia thought that oil and gas prices would fall, they wanted to win long-term, but they flew by with prices. Now such discomfort with your own contract. And if you got to the point, now you would be praised about how profitably concluded a contract. Typical junk psychology, does not smell of statehood. Standing with an outstretched hand in two halls at once and blackmailing Russia: we’ll either expel the fleet, then we won’t give the pipe, then we cut off the radar, then navigation, then taxes pay for fuel and stuff for the Black Sea Fleet, then for the famine, then for the occupation ... guys? Do not be offended by us for your behavior.
              1. Arkan
                Arkan 13 December 2012 14: 26
                +3
                Quote: Wax
                Yusch and Julia thought that oil and gas prices would fall, they wanted to win long-term

                Nonsense. In principle, they could not think about anything long-term, the contract was signed in the last days of the orange government, and everyone understood this. Together, they could not think about anything either - by that time they had long been enemies.
                1. mazdie
                  mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 25
                  0
                  Conclusion, they wanted to get a kick. They did it. Hawa
            3. revnagan
              revnagan 13 December 2012 14: 08
              0
              Quote: Vladimir 70
              I think that if the "Ukrainian" Firtash is replaced by the "Russian" Abramovich, the people of Ukraine will not notice much.

              In principle, I agree. Then there’s another question - what about the problems of Russia that already have big blood there, the Caucasus? While this is an internal problem of Russia, will it not become a problem for Ukrainians after unification? For example, I don’t want the houses to be blown up in Kiev or Kharkov (let them blow up in Lviv smile ). And I do not want my son to be called to serve in Chechnya. Whoever brewed the porridge should let it dissipate, in my opinion.
              1. Vladimir 70
                Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 14: 23
                0




                [quote] Then there’s another question - what about the problems of Russia that already have big blood there, the Caucasus? While this is an internal problem of Russia, will it not become a problem for Ukrainians after unification? For example, I don’t want the houses to be blown up in Kiev or in Kharkov [quote] I agree with this.
              2. Nose
                Nose 13 December 2012 14: 40
                +3
                Quote: revnagan
                And I don’t want my son to be called to serve in Chechnya

                A customs union is something else! And you, without noticing it, united everything! And the army, and politics, and even the oligarchs! .. By the way, even now, nothing prevents the oligarchs from setting up their business in Ukraine.
                1. revnagan
                  revnagan 13 December 2012 16: 19
                  0
                  Quote: Nose
                  A customs union is something else! And you, without noticing it, united everything!

                  Firstly, the situation in which "Ukrainian Firtash will be replaced by Russian Abramovich" is possible not under the Customs Union, but only under the hypothetical unification of the two states into one. And hence the unification (hypothetical, again) of the army, politics, etc.
                  Quote: Nose
                  oligarchs and now nothing prevents to establish their own business in Ukraine.

                  That's right, nothing prevents our oligarchs from chopping up their affairs in Ukraine. But they simply won’t let outsiders into their patrimony.
              3. Vladimir 70
                Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 14: 40
                +4
                In principle, I agree. Then there’s another question - what about the problems of Russia that already have big blood there, the Caucasus? While this is an internal problem of Russia, will it not become a problem for Ukrainians after unification? For example, I don’t want the houses to be blown up in Kiev or in Kharkov
                I agree with this. No one in Russia wants (or cannot) solve the national question in a coordinated manner. But we also have "time mines" This is Crimea and the same Lvov. It is not a problem to arrange "Chechnya". This applies to any state with a multi-ethnic population.
                And I don’t want my son to be called to serve in Chechnya. Whoever brewed the porridge should let it dissipate, in my opinion.
                Whoever brewed this porridge has long been living in London.
              4. to water
                to water 13 December 2012 19: 06
                +1
                My personal opinion is that if unification into one state comes, the question should not be - "your problem, my problem" common problems, common obligations that need to be addressed, as well as common benefits for the development of the state, its strengthening and improvement of the welfare of a single people. And only so!!!
              5. mazdie
                mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 27
                0
                Those who brewed shear money, but we disentangle!
              6. Pablo
                Pablo 14 December 2012 20: 02
                0
                in Dnepropetrovsk did not blow up?
          2. mazdie
            mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 14
            0
            they don’t think about the people, they want to tilt your power.
      2. Hunter
        Hunter 13 December 2012 12: 44
        -10
        Quote: gecko
        Azprom even sells gas to you for heating. And the State Department only tells you tales about a better life.

        Well yes...

    3. Hunter
      Hunter 13 December 2012 12: 42
      -7
      Quote: Aeneas
      I have long suspected that Gazprom is actually the State Department!

      - Gazdep, but:
      US intends to support NATO allies in Europe in overcoming their dependence on Russian gas

      http://world.comments.ua/2012/12/13/377199/ssha-hotyat-davat-bolshe-gaza-es.html
      1. mazdie
        mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 29
        0
        Out of spiritual kindness and of course not demanding anything in return
  11. dimon-media
    dimon-media 13 December 2012 10: 49
    +4
    Everything in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus will be fine. The entire West, the whole of Europe and the United States are mired in mortal sins - murder, violence, pederasty, prostitution, etc. The hour of reckoning is approaching. We will have a Golden Age. Russia and all Russia is the land protected by God. Everything will be fine with us. (Or hasn't history proved this to us? It is useless to "measure pussies" with us.
  12. orkibotu
    orkibotu 13 December 2012 11: 09
    +7
    I SLEEP AND SEE! HOW ASAP WILL RELEASE FROM THE WEST! AS THEY ARE TIRED, THE FORCES ALREADY DO NOT HATE!
    1. dimon-media
      dimon-media 13 December 2012 11: 20
      +5
      Be patient, bro. Everything goes to this .. I also have a dream, to reunite with some republics in the post-Soviet space, to elect a common government (without the dominance of any government.) And create a powerful empire.
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 17
        -11
        Quote: dimon-media
        Everything goes to this .. I also have a dream, to reunite with some republics in the post-Soviet space, to elect a common government and create a powerful empire.

        In Tatarstan, announced their intention to join the UN
        The World Tatars Congress intends to join the UN and promote its ideas. Such a proposal was recorded in the resolution of the V Congress of the public organization, held in Kazan. Corresponding amendments were made in the Constitution of the Congress.

        Details: http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1602396.html#ixzz2Euydp8ge
        Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM news agency.

        http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1602396.html
        1. Nose
          Nose 13 December 2012 14: 43
          +4
          Quote: Hunter
          The World Tatars Congress intends to join the UN and promote its ideas. Such a proposal was recorded in the resolution of the V Congress of a public organization.

          Since when public organizations began to join the UN !!!
          The guys just had a smoke! .. fool
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 13 December 2012 15: 00
            -7
            Quote: Nose
            Since when public organizations began to join the UN !!!

            And what do you not know that Tatarstan has been independent since 1991 with all distributions - the president, flag, coat of arms ???
            1. in reserve
              in reserve 13 December 2012 19: 55
              +1
              Hunter
              And what do you not know that Tatarstan has been independent since 1991 with all distributions - the president, flag, coat of arms ???


              Let it be known to you that in Russia each region, region has its own attributes: a coat of arms, a flag.
            2. mazdie
              mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 31
              +1
              And complete submission to the Federal Center.
              1. Rink
                Rink 14 December 2012 12: 39
                +1
                Quote: mazdie
                And complete submission to the Federal Center.


                Do not tell .... And then Ukraine has become independent ?!
                Especially with Yushchenko, huh? Independence is just from all the holes of the pearl ... So the State Department pumped it up, which was already visible from the side.

                Ukraine simply changed its submission, only stupid: Russia developed Ukraine, built factories, and industry. And the States are rotting Ukraine, freeing up territory.
            3. dimon-media
              dimon-media 14 December 2012 17: 39
              +1
              You are raving. In Russia, there are coats of arms at each regional center. That is, CITIES. Now about a little more. Take the Chechen Republic, they have their own coat of arms, their flag, their Head of State. The same is Tatarstan, Dagestan, and so on, but all together, these republics form our beloved (not without pride) beloved, powerful and nepodyemy state- RUSSIAN FEDERATION !!!
              1. Gecko
                Gecko 14 December 2012 21: 22
                +1
                Not the head of state, but the head of the republic.
      2. marder
        marder 13 December 2012 14: 43
        -7
        And who will be the emperor? Really Vladimir I to the kingdom and to the throne Monomash? Or which of the Romanovs suggest? Or to form a new dynasty from Abramovich and Deripasok with the Akhmetovs?

        Historically, in the same Ukraine there were never any kings, and the same getmans until the moment when the fraternal Russian Empress Catherine # 2 destroyed the Cossacks, they were elected quite democratically.

        So what are imperial aspirations ... Better past us :-) We will go to your empire for holidays, for money or for grandparents
        1. mazdie
          mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 33
          +2
          Go to Poland for permanent residence as an oppressed tormented by famine, but proud Ukrainian
    2. marder
      marder 13 December 2012 14: 37
      -3
      So disconnect! Who is bothering you ??? There is an immigration program from Ukraine to Russia. Over the 6 years since its adoption, as many as 6000 (six thousand) people have left under this program. By the way, a total of 6,000,000 (six million) people immigrated from Ukraine. This is for those posts that say that the number of people wishing to join the Russian Federation and the Customs Union is growing. Statistics is a stubborn thing. For the most part, immigration is for some reason not in Russia, but in the Czech Republic, Canada, the USA, Poland, Lithuania, Britain, Latvia. Although there are no programs on immigrants from Ukraine. And I dare to assure you, not the worst of the worst are immigrating.
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 48
        -8
        Quote: marder
        There is an immigration program from Ukraine to Russia.

        Especially since:
        Deputy: Russia lacks 50-70 million visiting workers
        http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/1073262/

        Quote: marder
        For the most part, immigration is for some reason not in Russia, but in the Czech Republic, Canada, the USA, Poland, Lithuania, Britain, Latvia.

        Truth, many Russians leave, travel - the USA, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, Holland basically. I met only one in the Russian Federation, and he only thinks in the spirit of Putin’s law on repatriation.
        1. Rink
          Rink 14 December 2012 01: 18
          +4
          Quote: Hunter
          Truth, many Russians leave, travel - the USA, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, Holland basically. ....

          And how many Ukrainians emigrated migrant workers to Geyropa?
          In the Western villages depopulated! The region lives only due to guest workers. And the rest of the country is no better. Near Kiev, villages disappear. It is full of villages where one or two old women live .... In the villages there is no cattle - there is no one to go after him. Young people flee en masse, leave for cities, and whoever can - brings down the country for good.

          The collapse of the state, large-scale theft and corruption - these are all the achievements of Ukraine.

          "There are 54 million of us!" (it was) - do you remember the advertisement during the first presidency of Kuchma? How much is the population of Ukraine now - don't you admit it? Without war, during the years of independence the population has disappeared, decreased more than during the Great Patriotic War !!!

          Therefore, first you need to look in the mirror, and then the neighbors poke something ....
          1. Kars
            Kars 14 December 2012 01: 29
            -2
            Quote: Skating rink
            Therefore, first you need to look in the mirror, and then the neighbors poke something ....

            That's the exact recipe for what our neighbors need to do, and this is with their hydrocarbon reserves.
            Quote: Skating rink
            big theft and corruption

            So he wrote as if on the same site almost every day about theft and corruption in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation with such numbers that we never dreamed of.
            Quote: Skating rink
            Full of villages where one or two old women live ....

            A similar situation.
            Quote: Skating rink
            Young people flee en masse, go to cities,

            Quote: Skating rink
            Without war, during the years of independence, the population disappeared, decreased

            And in which European countries and Russia (if the Muslim population is special to remove, aren't we brothers?) Does the population grow dynamically without taking into account migration?

            But I don’t see anything special from the whole given speech. Ordinary problems, and no alliances or unions will solve this either for us or for Russia. For Ukraine, the situation will only worsen.
      2. Arkan
        Arkan 13 December 2012 15: 13
        +4
        Quote: marder
        Statistics is a stubborn thing. For the most part, immigration is for some reason not in Russia, but in the Czech Republic, Canada, the USA, Poland, Lithuania, Britain, Latvia. Although there are no programs on immigrants from Ukraine.

        This is already in the past. Some of my friends from Spain have already returned, the rest (of those in Europe) have either already bought housing in Ukraine (just in case) or are going to do it. Everything is changing.
        1. Hunter
          Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 20
          -4
          Quote: Arkan
          This is already in the past. Some of my friends from Spain have already returned, the rest (of those in Europe) have either already bought housing in Ukraine (just in case) or are going to do it. Everything is changing.

          There is another tendency.
          - A lot of Russian intelligentsia is moving to Kiev from a hitherto rotten and spiritless Moscow ... yes
          1. Rink
            Rink 14 December 2012 01: 06
            +2
            Quote: Hunter
            - A lot of Russian intelligentsia is moving to Kiev from a hitherto rotten and spiritless Moscow ...

            Patriots do not abandon their country.
            Spiritless rot is running, afraid of being imprisoned for the fact that they sold their homeland, boggy bogies, Judas. "Intelligentsia" only in the sense that they are not used to working - it is easier to live on grants.

            This crap will dump - Russia will be cleansed of lack of spirituality.
            But for Ukraine it is to digest, not to digest. We somehow need to shoot our corrupt politicians, and then there are the "rotten" smelly piles ... No, they would have poured down on our smelly liberal West! They seem to strive there? why don't they go to live ?! "Suitcase-station-Europe !!!" To the land of your dreams, nafig!
      3. dimon-media
        dimon-media 14 December 2012 17: 45
        +1
        Has the oak collapsed? Who emigrated to Lithuania? There, the mouse was hung in the refrigerator, and then burying it there does not make enough money.
    3. Rink
      Rink 14 December 2012 12: 29
      +5
      Quote: orkibotu
      I SLEEP AND SEE! HOW ASAP WILL RELEASE FROM THE WEST! AS THEY ARE TIRED, THE FORCES ALREADY DO NOT HATE!

      They already got me too, corrupt creatures ....
      Only about disconnecting - something is not sure. Why should we give them our lands ?!
      Yes, Western Ukraine has long been under the Poles - a fact. They cut a lot of ours there at that time ... But this not their land, - we lived there before the Polish occupation. And then if you recall, the Poles for some time reached the Dnieper, near Kiev there are still whole villages with people of Polish descent (I have a mother-in-law from this, so I know) - what should they give the whole right bank to them now?

      So it seems to me that it is historically fairer not to leave us, but to evict the Polish last ones from there. As they came, so let them go.
      To paraphrase the fascist Farion - "suitcase-station-Geyrop!" The most correct direction for them. Let them bring down a pick-up, hello ... And then we will also give out a pendel on the track.

      And then look - they warmed up here, they rejoiced ...
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 14 December 2012 16: 48
        0
        Che are you squandering the tsar’s royal lands? Not for that our grandfathers defended her! Let the zapadentsy go to Poland, England, America.
      2. Quit
        Quit 16 December 2012 02: 30
        -3
        And who gave you the right to command anyone where to live? And if you are asked: by what right do you live here? Any questions that divide Ukraine should be removed from the agenda. Before you wave your saber, you first need to learn how to own it.
  13. itr
    itr 13 December 2012 11: 16
    -2
    most of the Ukrainian population does not want to become part of Russia I belong to that part of the Russian population that does not see the point of joining Ukraine, but support the annexation of the original Russian territories.
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 13 December 2012 11: 19
      +5
      Unfortunately, I will support you; otherwise, do not cut this Gordian knot.
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 13 December 2012 12: 31
        -1
        It would be nice .. of course, annex all that was lost, brothers.
        Just look ... well, the whole territory of the USSR - right? Poland, Finland - as parts of the Russian Empire - right?
        They shed blood for the Mongol - right? We annex, all the more so to them.
        Where else did we shed blood - wow ... half the world. We annex it.
        According to historians, the Varangians conquered England, brought Chornobog there, etc. St. George is the coat of arms of Russia, and the patron saint of good old England, so ....
        America, as a colony of England (former) - .. well, a clear annexation.
        What do we get? THE WHOLE WORLD is ours. They should be annexed by right.
        I wouldn’t just Afghan - annex, let them suffocate in Kumar there. It will be easier for everyone.
        ...
        These are jokes.
        Now let's think about it.
        Some rightly said - there (in Ukraine) already young people who do not know the USSR are advancing into the main population. Not counting the Christ-sellers who were born free, but who, for the stew of the United States, became independent Ukraine.
        The current 18- 28 year old in Ukraine .. Russia is already semi-alien. What benefits do they see from the pool? Yes, no.
        They speak the same language .. well, half of Africa speaks the same language.
        Another ten years ... we won’t be able to prove that we are ONE people ... Brains are so clogged up ... with all kinds of halogen groups.
        And what are we observing?
        In addition to the pointless bazaar - no progress.
        There are Putin, Yanukovych and Tokhtamurdy Bugly Gurdy .... in Ashgabat .. laugh merrily. Make fun .. over the people.
        Because the people are trying to believe in something. Waiting for something.
        ..
        Will not wait.
        We are already losing .. solidarity.
        A little more ... well, here 2015 .. a passport to Ukraine - and in general .. lose.
        1. marder
          marder 13 December 2012 16: 45
          -6
          Igarrbravo!

          By the way, if Georgia 8.8 had not trampled upon Ossetia, then in 10-20 years Ossetians would have returned to Georgia themselves. And so half of Ossetia went to work in Tbilisi. It is the same with any association - the decision should not be so much at the level of those who have temporarily reached the trough, but at the level of the people. And now out of 6,000,000 emigrants from Ukraine to Russia, only 6,000 emigrated. Significantly enough.
          1. dimon-media
            dimon-media 14 December 2012 18: 30
            -1
            Good fill. Rather, the opposite. 6 million in Russia, and the remaining 6 thousand in geyrop.
    2. Hunter
      Hunter 13 December 2012 12: 52
      -6
      Quote: itr
      most of the Ukrainian population does not want to become part of Russia

      It is, and this percentage is only growing. A sober statement
      1. mazdie
        mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 36
        0
        Naturally, the propaganda and change of history textbooks, as well as the absence of parents who left for work in Moscow
    3. vladek64
      vladek64 13 December 2012 13: 14
      -2
      Quote: itr
      most of the Ukrainian population does not want to become part of Russia; I belong to that part of the Russian population that does not see the point of connecting with Ukraine, but I support the annexation of the original Russian territories

      And you can in more detail how you imagine "annexation of the primordially Russian territories." A missile and bomb attack on Ukrainian cities? Then the landing and tank columns? Destruction of all dissent?

      Probably, this is how the Slavic empire collapsed, when instead of "brothers-Slavs" it began to sound more often "hoh ... s" and "kats ... py".

      I was personally born in the USSR. And for me, the word Motherland gives rise to the image of a huge country from Kaliningrad to the Pacific Ocean, and from the Black Sea to the White. And throughout this territory live Soviet people of different nationalities. And many have. And many would like this great country to be reborn. But to do it now, we all can not afford. Yes, and each country had many of its problems, which no one wants to share. For example, in Ukraine no one wants to have the same problem with Caucasians as in Russia.

      So, it will be better for our common future if we maintain respect for each other (and even better fraternal relations between the Slavs) and at the same time we will put things in order in each country. And after some time we will again be able to unite.
      1. itr
        itr 13 December 2012 13: 38
        -1
        Missile bombing in Ukrainian cities?Lviv and other cities I think Russia is not interested, but gentlemen with the Crimea you need to part
        1. vladek64
          vladek64 13 December 2012 13: 49
          0
          Quote: itr
          but gentlemen with the Crimea you need to part


          And how are you going to "separate" us from Crimea?
          1. itr
            itr 13 December 2012 13: 52
            -2
            And here time will tell
            The fact that he is not yours is 100% true on our side.
            Well, of course, preferably peacefully
            1. vladek64
              vladek64 13 December 2012 14: 04
              +4
              Quote: itr
              The fact that he is not yours is 100% true on our side.

              That's what I talked about. Yours is not yours ... And this is a conversation between the Slavs.
              Hillary Clinton is just thrilled.
            2. Arkan
              Arkan 13 December 2012 14: 37
              0
              Quote: itr
              The fact that he is not yours is 100% true on our side.
              Well, of course, preferably peacefully

              And this was said by a citizen of the country that gave Ukraine "guarantees." ? wassat laughing Is it really so hard to understand - Ukraine does not trust Russia precisely because of such "guarantors" as you.
              1. itr
                itr 13 December 2012 14: 39
                -1
                What kind of guarantees do you write about ???? I didn’t catch something
                1. Arkan
                  Arkan 13 December 2012 15: 00
                  +2
                  Quote: itr
                  What kind of guarantees do you write about ???? I didn’t catch something

                  If Ukraine refused nuclear weapons, Russia and the United States acted as guarantors of the integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine .... It just so happened that Russia was the first to forget about it, moreover, right away. This actually caused the current problems.
                  1. gladiatorakz
                    gladiatorakz 14 December 2012 13: 05
                    0
                    Quote: Arkan
                    If Ukraine refused nuclear weapons, Russia and the United States acted as guarantors of the integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine .... It just so happened that Russia was the first to forget about it, moreover, right away. This actually caused the current problems.

                    I think over time, 5-10 years, a return to nuclear weapons will be necessary. There are carriers and new ones are being developed. There is no need for a third arsenal in the world, but with fifty charges let them gather dust.
              2. Hunter
                Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 50
                -8
                Quote: Arkan
                And this was said by a citizen of the country that gave Ukraine "guarantees."

                Well, you can see the true face and goals of Russia.

                Quote: Arkan
                Ukraine does not trust Russia precisely because of such "guarantors" as you.

                Contracts with Russia are not worth the paper on which they are written.
                1. Arkan
                  Arkan 13 December 2012 15: 07
                  +3
                  Quote: Hunter
                  Well, you can see the true face and goals of Russia

                  Despite this, I am for the Customs Union, it is objectively necessary. Another thing is subjective factors (in other words, someone’s greed) that can turn it into God knows what (as happened with the CIS).
                  Quote: Hunter
                  Contracts with Russia are not worth the paper on which they are written.

                  The person who said this for the first time was also not a standard of decency.
                2. Vladimir 70
                  Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 16: 41
                  +1
                  Contracts with Russia are not worth the paper on which they are written.
                  If you’re already quoting, bring it completely, otherwise it’s not shitty
                  1. Hunter
                    Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 48
                    -5
                    Vladimir 70,
                    But the essence remains.
                    1. Vladimir 70
                      Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 17: 13
                      0
                      But the essence remains.
                      What is the essence of this? The point is that you should not deceive Russia
                      1. Hunter
                        Hunter 13 December 2012 17: 29
                        -7
                        Vladimir 70,
                        You should try to deal with Russia as little as possible, on gas in a couple of years - you will soon begin to prove everything with examples, and for you as an example.
                      2. Vladimir 70
                        Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 17: 37
                        +4
                        You should try to deal with Russia as little as possible, on gas in a couple of years - you will soon begin to prove everything with examples, and for you as an example.
                        Well, how much can you do with this gas? They themselves broke the old (beneficial for Ukraine) agreement, and they themselves signed a new one. What now whine? And why it happened, is the second question.
                3. itr
                  itr 13 December 2012 17: 39
                  0
                  Yes, what kind of missiles did your government have to sell the axis of an aircraft carrier and yes, in my opinion, you sold 160 if the missiles remained with you then they were now on duty somewhere in Afghanistan
            3. Orey
              Orey 13 December 2012 14: 52
              +2
              Quote: itr
              The fact that he is not yours is 100% true on our side.

              laughing
              Maybe the truth is on the side of the Tatars they live there for more than centuries than the Russians?
              Or on the side of Kiev? Kievan princes took Khersones (Sevastopol) even when Moscow was a remote village.
            4. marder
              marder 13 December 2012 14: 54
              -1
              It’s not Russian :-) For that matter, it’s necessary to give Crimea to the Turks. Everything in Turkey is more pleasant to go on vacation than in Sochi.

              In general, another utopia. How will you select? On the one hand, tank armadas are grouped in the Belgorod region and, without declaring war, begin to crush Ukrainian border guards, peacefully collecting bribes from peasants, smuggling canisters with cheap gasoline. On the other hand, the Black Sea Fleet begins shelling Odessa and destroys the monument to Duke, and in Kiev 76 guards land. airborne In Lviv launched RS-24 "Yars" 54 guards. rd?

              How is that so? Glamorous ... will you parachute into Kiev or jump into a tank in Kharkov? In what place to wait for you with flowers? Sory, I don’t do sniping, more and more IPSC with a carbine and a pistol, but I really doubt that I will like Russian tanks in Kharkov
              1. mazdie
                mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 47
                +1
                Regarding IPSC, welcome! But about the Russian tanks, God forbid, you will also pray about it soldier
    4. to water
      to water 13 December 2012 19: 48
      +1
      And you brother "itr" is a provocateur. Who gives you the right to annex lands not developed or conquered by you. Your politics is short-sighted, to put it mildly, due to the narrowness of your thinking, or you are a Western saboteur IMHO.
      1. itr
        itr 13 December 2012 20: 06
        -3
        What are you saying? I don’t like Russian priests, I’m a saboteur.?
  14. Nikor
    Nikor 13 December 2012 11: 31
    +5
    So I just don’t understand what will be bad if Russia and Ukraine unite into a single state? in Ukraine there will be gas with which there are constantly problems. Losing independence? and from whom will it depend on the Russian people? I think they’re not bad in Tatarstan.
    If anyone can explain what's wrong with joining?
    1. revnagan
      revnagan 13 December 2012 13: 26
      -1
      Quote: Nicor
      If anyone can explain what's wrong with joining?

      I am also for unification. But now this is not realistic. And here's why. How do you propose to unite the economies of two states (or rather different clans of oligarchs) from Ukraine and Russia? After all, less than 10% of enterprises remain in state property in Ukraine, the rest are in private hands. Well, try to unite Akhmetov with Abramovich. More likely, two spiders in one bank will agree. But Russian capitalists have much more resources, therefore, sooner or later they will "devour" our capitalists. Well, what will we, ordinary Ukrainians, win? to squeeze out the juices of the newcomers, that's all ... to a penny. If you unite, then the peoples, without oligarchs. Well, this is (for now) from the realm of fantasy.
      Quote: Nicor
      in Ukraine there will be gas with which there are constantly problems.

      Owners of large enterprises who need this same gas for production purposes have problems with gas, and naturally, they want to get it cheaper, and when they break off, they shift part of the price (large) to ordinary household gas consumers (well, it’s kind of like we are being taken hostage , they say, yeah, it's Russia's fault that gas prices are high).
    2. Eraser
      Eraser 13 December 2012 16: 21
      -1
      And if Russia and China unite in one state? Some advantages. China will not have problems with gas, Russia will have problems with electronics and consumer goods. What will Russia lose independence? And on whom will it depend, on the Chinese people? Explain what is wrong with such a union? Some pluses, the Chinese will inhabit Siberia and the East, such an alliance will become the most powerful on the planet, finally everyone will be afraid of you, forward. smile
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 13 December 2012 17: 17
        -6
        Quote: Eraser
        Some pluses, the Chinese will inhabit Siberia and the East, such an alliance will become the most powerful on the planet, finally everyone will be afraid of you, forward.

        Especially when you consider how many runaway Chinese fought in the Red Army at the beginning of the 20th century, and there were the most cruel soldiers - because the Janissaries, there was nowhere to retreat.
      2. Arkan
        Arkan 13 December 2012 17: 39
        0
        + + + laughing
        Quote: Eraser
        And if Russia and China unite in one state? Some advantages. China will not have problems with gas, Russia will have problems with electronics and consumer goods. What will Russia lose independence? And on whom will it depend, on the Chinese people? Explain what is wrong with such a union? Some pluses, the Chinese will populate Siberia and the east, such an alliance will become the most powerful on the planet, finally
        laughing
      3. in reserve
        in reserve 13 December 2012 20: 05
        0
        Eraser
        And if Russia and China unite in one state? Some advantages. China will not have problems with gas, Russia will have problems with electronics and consumer goods. What will Russia lose independence? And on whom will it depend, on the Chinese people? Explain what is wrong with such a union? Some pluses, the Chinese will inhabit Siberia and the East, such an alliance will become the most powerful on the planet, finally everyone will be afraid of you, forward. smile


        Compare x ......... with a finger you want to combine different cultures. If we unite, someone’s culture will die.
        1. Kars
          Kars 13 December 2012 20: 47
          0
          Quote: in stock
          . If we unite whose culture dies

          In the USSR, there were dozens of cultures and 15 republics conquered)))))) think of something else. And there were different nationalities, and races, and languages, and religions)) Do not want your younger brother to be the capital in Beijing))))))) )
      4. mazdie
        mazdie 13 December 2012 22: 50
        0
        The peoples are different, the mentality is different, and with the Ukrainians (not with Bandera) we are one nation!
  15. ADEQUATE
    ADEQUATE 13 December 2012 11: 38
    +3
    It is necessary to create a new super power by impoverishing all the countries of the CIS and Georgia, too, and call it the USSR, I think it will happen soon !!!!
    1. Hunter
      Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 15
      -5
      Quote: ADEQUATE
      CIS and Georgia, too, and call it the USSR

      Today Russia and Georgia will begin negotiations in Geneva
      The new Georgian authorities are not going to abandon the "Law on the Occupied Territories".

      http://delo.ua/world/segodnja-rossija-i-gruzija-nachnut-peregovory-v-zheneve-192
      335 /
      1. wax
        wax 13 December 2012 14: 09
        +2
        Georgia needs time to live on a draft to realize the impracticability of imperial thinking on the Caucasian ridge.
        1. Hunter
          Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 21
          -6
          Quote: Wax
          Georgia needs time to live on a draft to realize the impracticability of imperial thinking on the Caucasian ridge.

          Russia needs a few Gabala radars in a draft - to realize the impracticability of imperial thinking on the Caucasian ridge.
  16. Bashkaus
    Bashkaus 13 December 2012 11: 49
    +3
    I have a Ukrainian citizen girl, I am Russian. Amur tuzhur, you understand, it would be possible to create a family, give birth to children, and then crap. a visit to the problem, at least show a passport at the border. And if someone comes to a loved one, problems with registration, the right to reside, etc. Although they would be born in the same country, we speak the same language.
    There would be an opportunity, the Clinton would not have allowed the integrity of our individual families, it would be better for her to let all the hungry birds rattle over each other. It just doesn’t work out, rather, she will lose the integrity of her mind with all the ensuing consequences
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 13 December 2012 12: 44
      +3
      The problem, Sergey, the problem ...
      Even two problems - I see.
      (in the way Yoda spoke).
      One - where to meet? Only neutral territories remain.
      The second - why with a girl? Klintosh has long pointed out - girls meet girls, boys meet boys. It is civilized.
      ...
      Jokes, jokes ... but this is a DIRECT violation of human rights. Restriction of freedom of movement and personal life.
      Who should I sue?
      ..
      Under the Soviet Union, this was not. I could go to Kaunas from Cape Dezhnev ... and have mercy, say, with Lithuania. Or a Polish girl. No problem.
      And how they became - universal people - problems and flooded. Val.
  17. marder
    marder 13 December 2012 12: 22
    -2
    Oleg147741,
    Look, in Kharkov, I didn’t hear anyone talking in the Ukrainian language! For some reason they speak Russian.

    So from history :-) Kharkov arose as a fortress on the territory of the Moscow kingdom, on the territory of the Belgorod Voivodeship, and until 1917 was the center of Slobozhanshchina and Sloboda province. Slobodanshchina was inhabited by both Ukrainians and Russians. There are still villages in the region with the same names as Russian Lozovaya and nearby Cherkasskaya Lozovaya. In Russian Lozova they speak Russian surzhik with Ukrainian impregnations, in Cherkasskaya they speak Ukrainian surzhik with Russian impregnations. And Kharkov was appointed the capital of Soviet Ukraine from Moscow, since Kiev was not the Soviet capital. And by the way, no one Russian-speaking does not infringe not only in Kharkov, but also in Lviv ... Read less Bolshevik newspapers.

    itr,
    most of the Ukrainian population does not want to become part of Russia; I belong to that part of the Russian population that does not see the point of connecting with Ukraine, but I support the annexation of the original Russian territories.

    In addition to annexing the original Russian territories back to the Germans, Prussia should be annexed and recognized as invalid the deal for the sale of Alaska.
    Don't you think this is a somewhat utopian situation? I personally don’t care who comes to Kharkov to annex me - Russians or Americans, I will get a civil carbine from the safe and I will shoot both of them.
    Yes, and somehow talk about most of the Ukrainian population ... Where did such exact numbers come from? In the same Kharkov, about which it was mentioned above, both Russian-speaking and Ukrainian-speaking consider themselves not to be Russians and not Russians, but Ukrainians. And no matter how asshole the Yanukovychs are, along with the Yushchenko, no one wants to go under either Putin or Medvedev.

    And by the way, just as historically Kharkov is much more a Russian city, so Kuban is a much more Ukrainian region. Only something that no one defends the Ukrainian language in the Kuban and only the ancient grandfathers and grandmothers speak Ukrainian in the Krasnodar Territory. In general, not everything is so simple and simple.
    1. xan
      xan 13 December 2012 15: 38
      +3
      Marder, you are a Ukrainian nationalist.
      Do you know where Ukrainians came from in the Kharkov region?
      Russian tsars were allowed to settle fled from Polish oppression and did not give out to the Poles. How did the Ukrainians appear in the Kuban? The Russian government gave the Ukrainians land for free. How did Russians and Ukrainians get to the Black Sea coast and the Crimea? Russia conquered these lands, Ukrainians at that time did not even take soldiers. And how did Crimea get to Ukraine? Aren't you ashamed to consider the Crimean land Ukrainian as yourself? You are such a liberal, for freedom and self-determination, etc. Well, and hold a referendum in Crimea, or weak? And how Prussia came to Russia, just like the Crimea. As Alaska left Russia, Russia sold it voluntarily. If you don’t see the difference in how the lands got to Russia and how to Ukraine, then you are stupid. But your stupidity doesn’t change anything. But these lands will return to Russia, and will return themselves, without war. And this process is already underway. But you’re a defender, they saw a fly at your civilian carbine, because they simply mousled, they won’t invent anything new.
      1. marder
        marder 13 December 2012 17: 34
        -1
        xan wrote,
        Russian tsars were allowed to settle fled from Polish oppression and did not give out to the Poles.

        Well, actually I talked about this. As well as the fact that Kharkov became Ukraine only for the simple reason that Moscow needed Soviet Ukraine.
        Your position is interesting, dear, if Russia gave something back, then it must be taken back, and if Russia took something back, then it is original Russian. You already decide and in at least one post do not use radically multidirectional vectors :-)
        xan wrote,
        How did Russians and Ukrainians get to the Black Sea coast and the Crimea? Russia conquered these lands, Ukrainians at that time did not even take soldiers

        Of course they didn’t. It was the Zaporizhzhya army, which was an allied Russian army. And very well, the Russian Empire acted with its allies. That Baturin cut so that "betrayed the tip of the sword of all the inhabitants there, not excluding babies", Then"We were delighted to declare, through our entire Empire, to the common knowledge of Our whole faith that Sѣch Zaporizhzhya has already been destroyed, with the destruction of the future and the name Zaporizhzhya Kozakov"... By the way, the last hetman Zaporizhzhya (bitch), to the Wallachian and Hungarian troops, under the leadership of Pyotr Abramovich Tekeli, surrendered, arguing this by reluctance to shed Orthodox blood, although the lower Zaporizhzhya army for the most part was against such amazing behavior of the allies.

        Not all Cossacks from Sich went into emigration, and those who did not get knocked down, it was decided to “reward” for land service in the Kuban ... Kuban, by the way, was not settled then. And the task before the former Cossacks was set in creating a defensive line along the entire region and developing the economy on new lands.

        Especially remarkable was the introduction of serfdom in the territory where serfs never existed. For which, thank you personally for Empress Catherine # 2.

        Strange gifts for Ukrainians, do not you think?

        It is not necessary to say that Russia pipets gave as much to Ukraine. Something gave, something took away ... The first university in Kharkov was built thanks to the same Russia in 1805.

        In the history of relations between our peoples there is neither clearly white, nor clearly black.

        xan wrote,
        Marder, you are a Ukrainian nationalist


        Yes :-) I am a Ukrainian nationalist and, moreover, I am proud of it. By the way, I dare to assure you that there is nothing wrong with nationalism. Neither in Ukrainian nor in Russian. I don’t like tolerance and my hand reaches for the gun ...

        xan wrote,
        But you’re a defender, they saw a fly at your civilian carbine, because they simply mousled, they won’t invent anything new.


        In vain you are so about the Russian. Moreover, unfortunately there is not enough mock-up among them now :-( More and more katsapa.

        And again about nationalism - I am for Ukrainian, Russian and Belarusian nationalism. The greater the variability among the Eastern Slavs, the higher the likelihood that we will remain on this planet.
        1. xan
          xan 14 December 2012 00: 58
          -3
          Marder, I would ask you to clarify that Russia "kicks how much" gave Ukraine understandably (and what a lot then), and what did Russia take from Ukraine?
          where did the Russians introduce serfdom? in the Sich - and the Cossacks were resettled in the Kuban, there was also no serfdom.
          Cossacks allies - this is a military force close to zero, victories were both before their elimination, and after. To eliminate the Sich it took one Russian regiment. Do not write fairy tales about the military significance of the Zaporizhzhya Cossacks, this value was nullified already under the predecessor of Mazepa. About Baturin is generally funny. Do you know how the Poles dealt with ukrami? I want to remind you that on the left-bank “Russian” Ukraine there was no uprising against Moscow, not counting the cretin Mazepa, and the right-bank Polish was constantly shaking until it became Russian.
          About strange gifts for Ukrainians. As I understand it, do you think that Russia paid the south-east of Ukraine and the Crimea for the liquidation of the Zaporizhzhya Sech and the introduction of serfdom invented by you, or are there any other claims of Ukraine to Russia?
          Russia has not given you any land, the land has been given to you by those who starved you, and even presented Lviv.
          But you nationalist can calm down, nobody will take back the land. They are interesting to Russia only when for the most part our people will live on them. And the process is going slowly, but calmly, your government is doing everything right, or rather that it does not, everything will be as it should. As in the bible - God's millstones are ground slowly but thoroughly.
          And you understand Putin that you don’t like it, if you would — he freed you from such a freebie.
          I did not understand about the variability of the Slavs, and who is encroaching on your freedom? Russia behaves with Ukraine as an independent state, and you yell about pressure. Independent - act like an adult.
          And forget about equal alliances, Ukraine cannot be equal to Russia. I agree to consider the Ukrainian as an equal Russian, but there is no country, I hope no need to explain why.
          Marder, if you answer the post, then answer all the questions raised there, and not selective ones, otherwise it looks like a child cheating.
    2. skullcap
      skullcap 13 December 2012 16: 10
      +3
      marder today
      neither Putin nor Medvedev, no one wants to go.
      -----------------------------------------------------------------------
      And do not go under anybody. We must unite on equal terms in the common interests of ourselves and our children.
      But Putin and Medvedev, like Yushchenko and Yanukovych, come and go.
      AND PEOPLES - REMAIN.
      (So, by the way, Stalin spoke)
    3. Rink
      Rink 14 December 2012 00: 54
      +1
  18. gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz 13 December 2012 12: 27
    +4
    Without Russia there will be no Ukraine, but without Ukraine there will be no Russia!
    There are two real ways: unification or disappearance.
    Unification: equitable (fraternal) or absorption.
    Here is such a choice now ...
    1. marder
      marder 13 December 2012 12: 37
      -3
      Let there be Russia without Ukraine and Ukraine without Russia. For 400 years, Ukraine was with Poland, and after Ukraine became with Russia, Poland did not disappear. So it is with Russia.

      Neighbors, as well as relatives, are not chosen. The only question is what kind of neighbors we will be - good or how Palestinians are with the Israelis. I would like to be kind :-) And then only 30 kilometers to the border and there are many relatives living on that side of this very border.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 13 December 2012 21: 32
        0
        Quote: marder
        Let there be Russia without Ukraine and Ukraine without Russia. For 400 years, Ukraine was with Poland, and after Ukraine became with Russia, Poland did not disappear. So it is with Russia.

        Times change. Yes, there may remain a territory called Ukraine or Russia, but self-identification may change. Wars now win in the information space. Anyone who writes a history textbook and makes him study for 20-30 years already changes the picture of the world of students. And who writes them with us?
        One must be prepared for war. The only important thing is not getting ready for the last war.
    2. Hunter
      Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 01
      -6
      Quote: gladiatorakz
      There will be no Ukraine without Russia

      Ukraine was, is and will be. You are not a prophet to say what will happen to Ukraine and where to go.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 14 December 2012 13: 16
        0
        Quote: Hunter
        Ukraine was, is and will be. You are not a prophet to say what will happen to Ukraine and where to go.

        I do not pretend to be a prophet. I express my vision. And what is probably the most important, I do not force to accept MY point of view.
        I hope no one disputes that any state. 200 years ago was inhabited by ABSOLUTELY other people than today's citizens? That was the point of my remark.
        If in 200 years our descendants will proudly say "we are Ukrainians", but in Chinese. The territory will be called U-Kra-I-Na. Question: Is Ukraine left?
        This applies to Russia to the same extent.
    3. itr
      itr 13 December 2012 14: 17
      -1
      On the basis of what should we have an equal association ??
      Is your country economically equal to ours ??? , Army, population ????
      For anyone, one must cave in under the other
      Here is an example of the GDR and the FRG that everything went smoothly there ???
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 30
        -3
        Quote: itr
        On the basis of what should we have an equal association ?? Is your country economically equal to ours ??? , Army, population ????

        But you see, you yourself answered the question.
        - You do not want, we have long said that we do not want - consensus has been reached!
        1. itr
          itr 13 December 2012 14: 33
          +1
          Give one solution that is not yours and happiness to everyone.
          1. Kars
            Kars 13 December 2012 14: 44
            +2
            Quote: itr
            give one solution that is not yours and happiness to everyone

            All that is ours is ours. The USSR section happened peacefully, so calm down. Otherwise, Sorry Ukraine was not the last to pay taxes to the common cauldron.
            Borders are recognized, everything is legally framed. Alaska knock down from the Yankees)))))))
          2. Hunter
            Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 51
            -6
            Quote: itr
            Give one solution that is not yours and happiness to everyone.

            The problem is different, just that everyone knows what is ours and what is not yours.
          3. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 14 December 2012 13: 18
            -1
            Quote: itr
            Give one solution that is not yours and happiness to everyone.

            Take Australia. Okay. Not ours.
  19. itr
    itr 13 December 2012 12: 28
    0
    Oleg147741, Russians or Americans, I will remove a civil carbine from the safe and I will shoot both of them.in principle, I wanted to hear that! I hope your phrase is sobering to many on this site about his younger brother and all that. And friendship forever
    1. marder
      marder 13 December 2012 12: 44
      0
      By the way, why exactly is the “younger” brother? I could never understand that. Belarusians are also "younger" brothers? It is not entirely clear how it happened that the younger brother was born before the older. Well, yes, in history this does not happen.
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 49
        -5
        Quote: marder
        It is not entirely clear how it happened that the younger brother was born before the older.

        There are many questions everywhere that will be left unanswered. The logic is most likely in the absence of logic and arguments - "Russia cannot be understood with the mind." TS from the same irrational opera.
        1. xan
          xan 13 December 2012 15: 50
          -5
          Ukrainians and Belarusians, chop yourself on the nose - you are very lucky in history that the Russians considered you brothers. Do I need to explain why, or literate?
          Without Russians, the whole Slavic world, I repeat - the whole, would be a world of ever-oppressed historical losers. No matter how loud it sounds, but it is so - in Russians all the power and grandeur of the Slavic world. And the older or younger brother, this is lyrics, a conversation in favor of the poor
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 25
            -4
            Quote: xan
            you are very lucky in history that the Russians considered you brothers.

            Deputy MP video response:

            1. xan
              xan 14 December 2012 22: 58
              0
              what link did you bring
              would you refer to the comment of any football match
  20. morpex
    morpex 13 December 2012 12: 42
    +5
    The Kremlin’s policy towards Ukraine is a policy of coercive pressure, intimidation, and attempts to always and ever put Ukraine into cancer. I don’t see any differences between the attitude to Ukraine in the policies of the European Union and the Kremlin. Both of them constantly put some kind of conditions, barriers, etc. e. Unification will become possible only when the Kremlin perceives Ukraine as an equal partner.
    What is only yesterday's statement by Comrade Putin on the visa regime with the CIS countries! What a strange union it turns out ... Really?
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 13 December 2012 13: 01
      +1
      And what, Azarov says - we want to go to Russia?
      And the evil Putin-does not let?
      ..
      Cancer, what .. puts-lays down .. well, they got into "rags to riches" - and begin to bend fingers like a fan.
      What is in Russia, what is in Ukraine.
      All the same ... PLAY in politicians .... PLAY in independence ... in the great economists PLAY.
      And the loose change in the game is people.
      We look at this GAME ... and we can’t understand anything.
      And who - understands - is not capable of doing anything.
      Well, so be it. Amen.
      1. marder
        marder 13 December 2012 13: 24
        +1
        Yes, if they at least played the listed games ... And then the impression is created that they play a game with someone who has a toilet bowl more golden and who has a bigger cottage. Someone Winston Churchill once said that "politicians think about the next election, and statesmen about the next generations." IMHO neither in Russia nor in Ukraine there is not that of statesmen, but even politicians.
        1. xan
          xan 13 December 2012 16: 01
          +1
          marder,
          about statesmen and politicians
          you really do not see the difference between our and your rulers? or fool included?
    2. Gecko
      Gecko 13 December 2012 13: 04
      +2
      For many years you have been supplied hydrocarbons at bargain prices and subsidized the economy for more than ten years.
      After you did not give a damn in the palm of the giver, they began to sell you at world prices.
      And are you still talking about injustice?
      1. Kars
        Kars 13 December 2012 13: 21
        -3
        Quote: gecko
        For many years you have been supplied hydrocarbons at bargain prices and subsidized the economy for more than ten years


        For many years, we have provided you with transit at bargain prices, although according to the laws of the wild market it was easier to close the valve and buy gas from you at the border and resell it at Polish.
        1. Hunter
          Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 26
          -6
          Quote: Kars
          For many years, we have provided you with transit at bargain prices, although according to the laws of the wild market it was easier to close the valve and buy gas from you at the border and resell it at Polish.

          Everything is still ahead, and the name is the European Energy Charter. By the way, this is another reason to review contracts.
          1. Gecko
            Gecko 13 December 2012 13: 33
            +1
            And China at the same time also wants gas ...
            1. Hunter
              Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 37
              -6
              Quote: gecko
              There are consumers in China too ...

              Only the pipes are not there, and oil shale is already being developed and LNG is being built.
              1. Gecko
                Gecko 13 December 2012 13: 41
                +1
                Gas is not beef - it does not dry out. (c)
                We can wait ...
                1. Hunter
                  Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 50
                  -3
                  Quote: gecko
                  Gas is not beef - it does not dry out. (c) We can wait ...

                  Can I just have something then?
                  1. Gecko
                    Gecko 13 December 2012 14: 05
                    +2
                    Do not worry enough for food ...
                    Well, the oligarchs will not go on to fatten on ...
                    1. Hunter
                      Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 31
                      -3
                      Quote: gecko
                      Don’t worry enough for food ... Well, the oligarchs willn’t continue to fatten only ..

                      I would rather believe in a new revolution.
                2. revnagan
                  revnagan 13 December 2012 13: 53
                  0
                  Quote: gecko
                  Gas is not beef - it does not dry out. (c) We can wait ...

                  NO, it won’t work out. It’s not a ceiling in the apartment. You need to either preserve the well (expensive pleasure) or release gas into the atmosphere ... So the choice is not great ..
                  1. Gecko
                    Gecko 13 December 2012 13: 56
                    +1
                    Well, they blocked it in severe Ukrainian winters ...
                  2. itr
                    itr 13 December 2012 14: 21
                    0
                    Oh guys! how wrong are you about gas !! There is where to put it; you just need to agree on the price. But your decision to switch to LNG specifically will bring the economy of your country to its knees. Remember my words !!!! So I think at this moment the Crimea of ​​Russia will depart
                    1. Hunter
                      Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 36
                      -4
                      Quote: itr
                      So I think at this moment the Crimea of ​​Russia will depart

                      Rather, I believe in the de facto independence of Tatarstan, de jure since 1991.

                      Most residents of Crimea against the accession of the peninsula to Russia
                      For the first time in 21 years of independence, the number of Crimean residents who see the peninsula as part of Ukraine reached 40%, and exceeded the number of adherents of its separation as a Russian autonomous unit.

                      http://www.news24ua.com/bolshinstvo-zhiteley-kryma-protiv-prisoedineniya-poluost
                      rova-k-rossii
        2. wax
          wax 13 December 2012 14: 15
          +2
          That's it with the damper you stay. Hugging. Just like with aviation, navy, nuclear industry ...
          1. itr
            itr 13 December 2012 14: 34
            +2
            each item has its own customer. everything will be fine
      2. marder
        marder 13 December 2012 13: 31
        -5
        And thanks to Planck and Einstein for starting to sell prices above world. States, they are just like people - while they are in the comfort zone, then figs will change. It would be good for Ukraine if hydrocarbons from Russia were not 15-20% higher than the world’s, as now, but 300-400! I think that the regime in such conditions and a couple of months would not have lasted. So, in my humble opinion, the fact that the owners of Russian hydrocarbons put the owners of Ukrainian metal-working enterprises in cancer is the best that can now be for the formation of Ukraine as a state. The country will be forced to engage in energy-saving technologies, will be forced to introduce a competitive economic model, will be forced to forget about the myth of East Slavic unity. So - bravo, Gazprom and its owners!
        1. xan
          xan 13 December 2012 16: 07
          +2
          marder,
          Yes, you are not just a nationalist, you are a stupid nationalist.
          where do you get loot to enter a competitive economic model? do you know anything about the economy and finance, about the profitability of production and the market, including the labor market? you better not write anything about the economy, you will marry a smart
          in one I agree with you - bravo, Gazprom and its owners!
          1. marder
            marder 13 December 2012 20: 11
            -4
            xan, count, I know :-) Moreover, I successfully work in this model. And about the economy, and about finances and profitability of production :-) But congratulations, you are not a dumb nationalist :-)
        2. morpex
          morpex 13 December 2012 19: 34
          0
          marder,
          You’re wrong .. Owners of metal plants, Ahmetka and others buy gas by barter or directly from Turkmens, Azeris, etc. And it costs them three times cheaper. Didn't you know?
          1. Vladimir 70
            Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 19: 43
            -1
            You’re wrong .. Owners of metal plants, Ahmetka and others buy gas by barter or directly from Turkmens, Azeris, etc. And it costs them three times cheaper. Didn't you know?
            A small question, how does Ahmetka deliver gas to its enterprises from Turkmenistan?
            1. morpex
              morpex 13 December 2012 20: 04
              0
              Vladimir 70,
              Let me remind you that Akhmetov was one of the first to obtain a NERC license for SCM, which gives the exclusive right to supply 2 billion gas to Ukrainian companies at unregulated tariffs for three years. Those. he was given the right to buy gas at Gazprom cheaper than $ 130
              “We supply our products to Central Asia, and there, during the crisis, buyers experience a lack of liquidity. They are ready to pay for our products with gas. And we ask the government for assistance in resolving the issue of its transportation to Ukraine ”,
          2. Kars
            Kars 13 December 2012 19: 56
            0
            Quote: morpex
            marder,
            You’re wrong .. Owners of metal plants, Ahmetka and others buy gas by barter or directly from Turkmens, Azeris, etc.

            And how do they transport it? In diplomats? The Russian Federation does not allow to receive gas in transit for a long time. You did not know?
      3. xan
        xan 13 December 2012 15: 58
        -1
        Gecko,
        I go nuts with freeloaders
    3. xan
      xan 13 December 2012 15: 56
      +1
      morpex,
      when there was no policy of intimidation, and was at home, I heard about what kind of Russians are poor, etc., read in officially published guides to the Crimea about Russian atrocities and oppression of Ukrainians on Crimean land. Such a policy regarding Ukrainian does not work. like the ancients, a dog biting its giving hand usually licks its kicking boot.
    4. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 13 December 2012 21: 36
      -1
      Quote: morpex
      The Kremlin’s policy towards Ukraine is a policy of coercive pressure, intimidation, and attempts to always and ever put Ukraine into cancer. I don’t see any differences between the attitude to Ukraine in the policies of the European Union and the Kremlin. Both of them constantly put some kind of conditions, barriers, etc. e. Unification will become possible only when the Kremlin perceives Ukraine as an equal partner.
      What is only yesterday's statement by Comrade Putin on the visa regime with the CIS countries! What a strange union it turns out ... Really?

      Under Putin, unification is unlikely to happen. He is not ready to share his power. And not all Ukrainians are ready to become Putiners ..
  21. Max
    Max 13 December 2012 12: 52
    +6
    The degradation of the EU, as well as the conclusion of Tymoshenko - these are two main catalysts for the restoration of the former Great Union State between the three countries. In Ukraine, literally in the last two months they began to actively talk about joining the CU, and at the highest level. I am sure that within two years the peoples will finally reunite, from which everyone will certainly benefit. And the new form of union will be different from the shovel, time is different and thinking. Yes, and Donetsk will not agree to any other conditions, except for equal rights.
    1. marder
      marder 13 December 2012 13: 39
      -2
      Yes, Putin will not offer Yanukovych any equality. What kind of nonsense? With whom is equal? Former special officer with a former convict? And Yanik, in spite of all his own, understands this perfectly. Moreover, he also understands that the TS is an even greater dependence on the Russian Federation, and he, as an expert with experience, is well aware that as soon as it becomes clear which of the “equal partners” is the six, and who is plowed, the six at once determine the place at the bucket, where he will have to be. So what aboutffYessor just takes time in the hope that somehow he will settle down, somehow something will calm down and he will be able to go on a gold toilet in Mezhigorye for several more years. And about what high levels in Ukraine do you speak ??? High in terms of whom? With 190 cm tall Janika? Well, he's not tall, he's just long
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 43
        -5
        Quote: marder
        Yes, Putin will not offer Yanukovych any equality. What kind of nonsense?

        Only Russia will receive income from the Customs Union - expert
        The customs union is, first of all, a political, not an economic association. This opinion was expressed by political expert Vladimir Tsybulko during a press conference in the Observer.
        "This is evidenced by the distribution of expected profits, as well as the distribution of roles in the management of this association. If this association were not of a political nature, the participants would have defended the rule: one country - one vote," he said and recalled that "now Belarus and Kazakhstan have 16% each, the rest is Russia. "
        According to Tsybulko, if Ukraine decides to join the Customs Union, Russia will not lose its controlling stake in decision-making. “Even from the calculation of the country's economic potential, we will not get our proportions - Russia will offer our participation due to the narrowing of the participation of Kazakhstan and Belarus, which immediately foresees a conflict situation,” the political scientist is convinced.
        He also said that the planned revenues of Russia from the Customs Union for 2015 are estimated at $ 400 billion, Belarus and Kazakhstan - 15 billion each. That is, "Russia is the actual beneficiary of the Customs Union," the expert stated.

        http://polemika.com.ua/news-105571.html#title

        The customs union can be very expensive for Ukraine - economist
        The benefits of Ukraine joining the Customs Union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan are impossible to calculate, since the country may lose more.
        This opinion was expressed by economist Viktor Lisitsky during a press conference in Kiev, the correspondent of GolosUA was informed.
        According to him, the charter of the TS provides for an “absolutely incorrect” decision-making mechanism.
        As V. Lisitsky explained, in fact, Russia independently decides on issues common to the countries participating in the union.
        So, today in this association Belarus and Kazakhstan have only 16% of the vote.
        At the same time, the economist recalled that Russia is trying to continue the hegemonic attempts in the post-Soviet expanses by the Customs Union, which began back in 1992, when the CIS was formed.
        Therefore, according to the expert, it is necessary to clearly understand the conditions under which the Russian Federation is trying to “drag” Ukraine into this structure.

        Source: http://ru.golos.ua/ekonomika/12_12_12_tamojennyiy_soyuz_mojet_ochen_dorogo_oboyt
        is_ukraine__ekonomist
  22. Hunter
    Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 00
    -5
    Again, an absurd article is not about anything, again an occasion to look at this very scribble - as a different dimension.
    We open the website of the Ministry of Defense and Social Protection for yesterday:
    Brussels vіdbulosі rіchne Pіdsumkove zidіdannya Spіlno robocho group Ukraine-NATO with the power of the military reform

    http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang=ua&part=news&sub=read&id=26786

    Turn down the pages, the first official publication of the MO:
    The central organ of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine is the magazine "VISKO UKRAINE"

    http://www.vu.mil.gov.ua/

    The third print edition of MO:
    Drukovany organ of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine - Atlantichna Panorama magazine

    http://www.atp.mil.gov.ua/
    NATO, not the CSTO note.

    The day before yesterday news:
    Ukraine satisfied with observer status in the Council of Defense Ministers of the CIS

    Ukraine is completely satisfied with the observer status in the Council of CIS Ministers of Defense - this does not prevent it from developing cooperation with the countries of the Commonwealth, the acting representative told reporters on Tuesday. Head of the Ukrainian military department Dmitry Salamatin.
    "Ukraine really has observer status in the Council of CIS Defense Ministers. We are comprehensively developing bilateral cooperation with the countries that are members of the CIS Council of Defense Ministers. This, of course, is manifested in the fact that we are conducting joint exercises," Salamatin said following the results of 63- XNUMXst meeting of the CMO CIS.


    - The question is, can someone explain to me what is meant in this empty article?
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 13 December 2012 13: 18
      +1
      The time will come when an enlarged Europe decides that it is unfair that a population 10 times smaller occupies most of the continent and disposes of almost all the natural resources on the mainland.
      Then NATO will be the first to kick you against Russia.
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 25
        -7
        Quote: gecko
        The time will come when an enlarged Europe decides that it is unfair that a population 10 times smaller occupies most of the continent and disposes of almost all the natural resources on the mainland.

        Let's see who will be laughing the last one with a change in the structure of the energy market of Europe and the World from a year since 2016 ...
        This is also objective.
        1. Gecko
          Gecko 13 December 2012 13: 29
          +1
          Well, a tyk in Europe did not meet the wedge, we ourselves need it, but there is also an eastern direction ...
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 40
            -4
            Quote: gecko
            Well, a tyk in Europe did not meet the wedge, we ourselves need it, but there is also an eastern direction ...

            Looking at the Russian Federation it is clear that in the Russian Federation the wedge did not agree with Tatarstan, Bashkiria, Dagestan, Chechnya, Nogays, Tuva, etc.
            - I am ready to believe, let's - finally give a convincing example of an effective Russian economy and politics??
            1. Gecko
              Gecko 13 December 2012 13: 51
              +1
              Tatarstan do not touch, I live here myself and I know a better situation.
              The Tatars are even closer than other Slavs.
              1. Hunter
                Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 01
                -6
                Quote: gecko
                Tatarstan do not touch, I live here myself and I know a better situation.

                Yeah, one wrote here just yesterday. Not even one - three, only one was the brightest.


                Meanwhile:

                Russian families of Stavropol are preparing to run away at any moment
                Russians in Stavropol are killed, survive and humiliate. And if they talk about it through central channels, then the situation is catastrophic.
                Gentlemen, you are constantly talking about the collapse of Ukraine, when this is already happening in the Russian Federation.
                The question is not hijab, and not the Muslim faith. The question is that the Russians are fleeing from the Stavropol Territory not from a good life, and not into a better place. But because according to the newcomers they are strangers here.

                http://uainfo.censor.net.ua/heading/world/80595-russkie-semi-stavropolya-gotovya
                tsya-ubegat-v-lyuboy-moment.html

  23. Sergg
    Sergg 13 December 2012 13: 02
    +1
    I myself live in Russia, traveled to Ukraine for two years in the summer. There are relatives there.
    I do not understand why these are two different states.
    We should be together. And we will if politicians stop dividing us.
    Surely the time will come and our two states will be one.
  24. ikar2006
    ikar2006 13 December 2012 13: 22
    +9
    Quote: marder
    In the same Kharkov, about which it was mentioned above, both Russian-speaking and Ukrainian-speaking consider themselves not to be Russians and not Russians, but Ukrainians.

    I wanted not to get involved, but apparently I have to. Well, here you are wrong, there is no need to speak for all Kharkiv citizens. I also live in Kharkov and do not consider myself a Ukrainian. I am Russian and my father and mother and grandmother were Russian. And living in today's Ukraine, I say "How I love my MOTHERLAND and I hate POWER." And I certainly won't fight the Russians.
    1. Hunter
      Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 32
      -8
      Quote: ikar2006
      And living in today's Ukraine, I say "How I love my MOTHERLAND and I hate DERZHAVA." And I certainly won't fight the Russians. He fought in his time.

      Well, people like you are only 10% in Ukraine. Yes, there are such, but you are not a beacon of truth.
      1. ikar2006
        ikar2006 13 December 2012 13: 44
        +3
        Well, as people like to indicate interest. Well, where did you get such data, such as me, 10%. Or maybe 50%? Statistics in the studio.
        1. Hunter
          Hunter 13 December 2012 13: 52
          -4
          Ok, find it, wait. It will be over the summer.
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 08
            -6
            In two years, the number of people who consider themselves patriots of Ukraine has grown from 77% to 82%.
            This is evidenced by the results of the latest survey of the Sociological Group "Rating", which was conducted in August.
            So, compared with the indicators of two years ago, the number of respondents who consider themselves patriots of their country increased from 77 to 82%, and compared with the data of six months ago, the growth is even greater - from 73 to 82%.
            In particular, 40% of respondents clearly describe themselves as patriots of their country, another 42% - more likely than not.
            Only 10% of respondents consider themselves patriots. Another 8% could not decide.
            The most tangible increase in the feeling of patriotism is recorded in the east countries, west and north. In the south - on the contrary, reverse trends are recorded.
            First of all, Ukrainians consider it a matter of pride for their country, their people, the place where they were born and grew up (34%), the land, the territory on which they live (29%), national songs, holidays, customs (27%), native nature (26%), the country's past and its history (25%), Ukrainian industriousness, the ability to manage (25%), great people of their nationality (24%).
            Citizens of Ukraine themselves, in the first place, would be called the residents of the West and the Center, mainly they are supporters of Freedom, and the united opposition of the Fatherland.
            They just said "Man" - residents of the East and West, more supporters of the Royal party "Ukraine - Forward!" AND BLOW.
            They would call their nationality, primarily in the West and the North, in particular, supporters of Freedom and the Motherland.
            A third of KPU supporters consider themselves a Soviet man and almost every sixth - Party of regions. Such views are prevalent mainly among older people, pensionersmost popular in the south and east.
            Young people consider themselves Europeans, first of all,. The affirmation of everything is widespread among the supporters of Freedom and BLOW.
            The Citizen of the World Association is most widespread among the supporters of the Ukraine - Forward! AND BLOW.
            The study was conducted from August 8 to August 18, 2012. The audience of the study: the population of Ukraine aged 18 years and older. Sample population: 2000 respondents
            Error of representativeness of the study (with a probability of 0,95): for values ​​close to 50%, the error is not more than 2,2%, for values ​​close to 30% - not more than 2%, for values ​​close to 10% - not more than 1,3 %, for values ​​close to 5% - no more than 1%.

            http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2012/08/20/6971100/

            This was before the election, so that one out of every six for the PR (with all the falsification and unanimous vote in the madhouse) with evenly strained 30,00% is no more than 5%. Commies - 12%, every third - 4%. The correlation is clear.
            Let me remind you that mostly poorly educated women from rural areas voted for PR. For KP - the old people. Freedom is educated. Blow - young.
            - The conclusions are clear to everyone.
            1. knn54
              knn54 13 December 2012 15: 13
              +1
              First of all, young people consider themselves Europeans.
              Especially in the western regions. There are no Ukrainians there. Read the story. Short excursion: Carps lived in Volyn (related to Dacians, Romanian ancestors)
              Hungarians (great relocation) walked around the Carpathians, where (as the Hungarian history books say) they GOT a historical homeland. So west of the Zhytomyr region only Slavs (Transcarpathia) are from the Slavs. And the above interpretation, apparently, has a purely geographical meaning.
              1. Hunter
                Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 27
                -5
                knn54,
                History and statistics speaks unambiguously - for the 20th century, Russians were resettled after the Holodomor to increase the population by 430 times.
                1. knn54
                  knn54 13 December 2012 20: 30
                  -1
                  The same statistics indicate a slight increase in the Jewish population after the famine. And some historians argue that Jews let all the grain go for moonshine (indeed, in 20-30-XNUMX, Jews monopolized the moonshine in Ukraine). So who to believe?
      2. wax
        wax 13 December 2012 14: 22
        0
        Hunter, make a passport for traveling to Russia, if you want to look at the light. Design your statehood in full and forward in any direction.
        1. Hunter
          Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 38
          -7
          wax,
          This is personal, I interpret Putin's demash since 2015 differently - this is the de jure end and a divorce from the countries of Putin's plans as a "land gatherer." I AM FOR not 2015, but 2013.
        2. Kars
          Kars 13 December 2012 14: 45
          -2
          Quote: Wax
          make a passport for traveling to Russia

          What a horror, right there are such big problems
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 13 December 2012 15: 03
            -5
            Quote: Kars
            what a horror, right there are such big problems

            - Or turn ...
    2. marder
      marder 13 December 2012 15: 03
      -2
      I subscribe to each letter of your post. Except the last sentence. I will fight with anyone who comes to me with the war. And as in a joke I don’t care which side the skullcap looks at him.

      But it became interesting if (hypothetical scenario) Russian tanks will enter Kharkov and before your eyes they will kill cadets from the HPS, then will you show the tankers where they are hiding ???
      1. Gecko
        Gecko 13 December 2012 15: 19
        +4
        Another horror story about Russian tanks ...
        Recently, only NATO everywhere introduced its tanks around the world ...
        1. Hunter
          Hunter 13 December 2012 16: 27
          -8
          Quote: gecko
          Recently, only NATO everywhere introduced its tanks around the world ...

          - Roksky tunnel?
          1. Vladimir 70
            Vladimir 70 13 December 2012 16: 37
            0

            Quit
            After the Russian PEACEKEEPER was killed, a city like Tbilisi should not have existed! The United States would have done so.
  25. knn54
    knn54 13 December 2012 14: 08
    +7
    It should be a union of equals. There is an economic need - the narrowness of the market for modern technologies, without which we are uncompetitively capable. There is no free place for us in the world, therefore economies should be oriented towards each other. In order to reduce the cost of production, in addition to introducing modern technologies, it is necessary to make energy carriers cheap, for which again it is necessary to expand the market and then the technologies will quickly pay off. There will be free money for investment. And the European Union ... In Eastern Europe, everything is bought up by Western corporations, the rest is eliminated. You should not go to "priymy" to a rich neighbor. A community of culture, science. Therefore, the West’s fear of a global competitor is understandable. As for Western Ukraine. Go there and see that the entire able-bodied population is hunchbacked in the West. And the region has been subsidized since Soviet times, any economist will confirm. Give them "independence" and see what happens. And what prevents the unification. As long as the elite keeps money in the West, this is not our elite, but the western one. Aptly said (back in 1990.) one friend from Uzbekistan is trouble when every buy wants to become a khan!
    1. Hunter
      Hunter 13 December 2012 14: 14
      -7
      Quote: knn54
      It should be a union of equals.

      Can't be viable economic (do not forget that he is) a union where the rules are written for everyone in different ways. More precisely, only for the Russian Federation.
      The Union of Equals is the EU.
      And there is nothing new and no discussion. The Russians want to discuss this for themselves somehow - their right, but that discussion has nothing to do with Ukraine.
      - Again, a dry statement.
      1. ADEQUATE
        ADEQUATE 13 December 2012 14: 25
        +3
        Sho would not say the EU is an equal union !!!
      2. Gecko
        Gecko 13 December 2012 14: 40
        +3
        It is equal only to England, France and Germany and the United States as the owner of this booth. And the rest are slaves for them.
      3. knn54
        knn54 13 December 2012 14: 56
        0
        It’s worth at least to see how West and East (formerly GDR) Germany live ... And more than 20 years have passed.
      4. to water