Cossacks and the annexation of Turkestan

In 1853, the Russian troops under the command of General Perovsky, after passing 900 miles through waterless terrain, stormed the Kokand fortress Ak-Mosque, which covered all the routes to Central Asia. Three hundred Ural and two hundred Orenburg Cossacks participated in the campaign. The fortress was renamed Fort Perovsky and began construction of the Syr-Darya line, which was supposed to cover the territory from the Aral Sea to the Lower Urals from raids. In 1856, construction of fortifications from Fort Perovsky to Fort Verny begins, to cover 900 versts of the steppe and connect the Syr-Darya line and Siberia, to establish a connection between the Siberian, Ural and Orenburg troops, who now had to protect the territory in 3 500 versts. In 1860, the Kokand troops were trying to capture Verny, but the Siberian and Semirechensk Cossacks beat off the attack. In 1864, Russian troops occupy Shymkent and defeat the Kokands. Kokandians collect the rest of their forces and go on a raid on Russian troops in the fortress of Turkestan, but on the way they come across a hundred Ural Cossacks, Esaul Serov. In the three-day battle of Ikan, the Cossacks beat off the attack of the entire Kokand army. From 110, the Cossacks survived 11, were injured - 47, killed - 52.

In 1865, Russian troops along with the Ural Cossacks occupy Tashkent. Established Turkestan region. In 1866, hostilities begin against an emir of Bukhara that pretends to Tashkent. Bukhara raid was repelled. In 1868, the Russian troops of General Kaufman, which include the Ural Cossacks, go to Samarkand, and the emir of Bukhara surrenders, recognizes the protectorate of Russia.

Orenburg Cossacks in the conquest of Turkestan

In 1869, Russian troops from the Transcaucasus land on the eastern shore of the Caspian Sea. In 1873, a campaign is organized on Khiva, the largest center of the slave trade in Central Asia. Through a waterless desert, troops approach Khiva from three sides - from Turkestan, from the Orenburg line and from the Caspian coast. Siberian and Semirechensk Cossacks, 5 of hundreds of Urals, 12 of hundreds of Orenburgs, Kizlyaro-Grebensky and Sunzhensko-Vladikavkaz regiments from Terek and even part of the Yeysk regiment of the Kuban army participate in the campaign. During the campaign, nature itself was defeated. Then, by a two-day assault on 28 and 29 May, Khiva is taken. In 1875, the Orenburg, Ural, Siberian and Semirechensk Cossacks help Russian troops capture Kokand.

Turkestan and the Transcaspian Territory, where Russia's power is becoming stronger, are divided by the Turkmen steppe, whose nomadic population continues to make raids. Before the oasis, where the Turkmen stronghold, Geok-Tepe, stood, there was a desert on the 500 versts. In 1877 and 1879 Russian troops twice unsuccessfully tried to occupy this fortress. In 1880, General Skobelev begins his march on Geok-Tepe from the Caspian coast. Along with him are the 1 th Labinsk, 1 th Poltava and 1 th Taman regiments of the Kuban Cossack army. Towards Skobelev from Turkestan moves detachment of General Kuropatkin, which includes the Orenburg and Ural Cossacks. Under Geok-Tepe squads meet. 23 December 1880 begins the siege of the fortress, 12 January 1881, it is taken by storm. For this battle, the 1 th Tamansky regiment of Kuban was awarded the St. George banner. Thus, the whole of Central Asia was annexed to Russia.

Comments

[GOLUBENKO]

Это надо казаХам почитать дать. Ибо их "правельные историки" доказывают и учат свою молодежь, что Россия "оккупировала Казахстан".
Забыли кто им с юга пинков навешивал, грабил и торговал ими в Коканде и Хиве. Они так "сопротивлялись русским оккупантам", что мчались табунами за Горькую и Сибирскую линию под защиту казаков от джунгар и туркестанских "братьев по вере" которые видели в них убегающий от продажи на рынке скот.

[Kasym]

Sergey, look at the dates. Kazakhstan was already part of the Russian Empire for almost 2 centuries and did not have its own army. By this time, Napoleon was already given ass kicks together - at least 60 Kazakhs took part in World War II. And also on the number of participants in these campaigns (one Kazakh clan, and their 000 + 96, could set no less).
И давайте перестанем друг друга "подкалывать" , это приводит к нехорошим последствиям .

[Brother Sarych]

Did Napoleon get hit together? 60 thousand Kazakhs? And what is not 600?
Not even funny ...

[Brother Sarych]

Where did the figure of 60 thousand Kazakhs come from, not Kazakhs. namely kazakhov? So that your hands are dry, wise guys - read what is written!
There were no Kazakhs in that war and could not be, and all that is braided about this in Kazakhstan is the stupid nonsense of local nationalists!
That's about the Bashkirs - the truth, but about the Kazakhs - blatant lies!

[Kasym]

Срыч , ты и есть националист . Никогда не забуду твою фразу :"НЕНАВИЖУ КАЗАХОВ". Служил бы ты со мной - я бы тебе язык отрезал и в одно место засунул . Не хотел отвечать такому недоумк., как ты . Но ты бы набрал в поиске "участие казахов в отечественной войне 1812г.".

[Brother Sarych]

Никогда такого не писал - "ненавижу казахов"...
Find this quote - then we'll talk about it ...
And I wanted to spit on threats, especially on the site - look ridiculous ...
In general, I NEVER wrote that I hate some people as a whole ...
I typed in a search - I found only fake links to all sorts of crazy Kazakh nationalists ...

[slava.iwasenko]

You do not know if there were Kazakhs in the Macedonian phalanx and in the Roman legions? If so, in what quantity?

[Prometey]

Also, for the first time I hear about the participation of Kazakhs in the Napoleonic wars, and even in such a large number. Bashkirs, yes, together with the Ural Cossacks fought in the Napom war, but the Kazakhs did not meet any links. And most importantly - who could serve as Kazakhs in the Russian army (we immediately dismiss cavalrymen - no country in the world could feed such a herd)?

[FunkschNNX]

In another 20 years, there will be 600 thousand and a million.
There is a story that Napoleon predicted death (collapse) from wild people who eat horses.

[Karlsonn]

Brother Sarych

I don’t know about the Kazakhs, better ask Beck, but the Bashkirs, something like this:

Description of the surrounding area

12 June 1812 year, French troops began a war with Russia. In the first Patriotic War, in addition to Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Tatars, Kalmyks, and, of course, Bashkirs participated. No matter how good or bad the Russian state is to its peoples, many peoples have risen to defend their homeland, so the Bashkirs, having traveled almost all of Europe, grazed their horses on Parisian Champs Elysees, played kurai and kubyz.

When the threat of the French invasion of Russia arose, attempts were made to organize additional regiments from the people. In April 1811, the governor of Orenburg, Grigory Volkonsky, ordered the organization of 2 Bashkir regiment, 2 Cossack Orenburg and 2 Cossack Ural.

When Napoleon invaded Russia, Emperor Alexander I issued a manifesto addressed to the peoples of Russia. This manifesto called on the peoples to defend their homeland and was read in churches, mosques, rural gatherings. At this time, representatives of the Bashkir people also expressed a desire to go to war with the French. In 1818, the Russian composer Sergey Glinka wrote this: “Not only the ancient sons of Russia, but also the nomadic peoples - and those, along with natural Russians, were ready to die for Russian land. Mordovians, fencers, Meshcheryaks, Cheremis zealously and eagerly went to the service: the Bashkirs themselves called out and asked the government if their regiments were needed. ”

In 1812, bread was not born in many counties, but despite hunger and poverty, the Bashkirs and Cossacks went to war in their uniforms and with their weapons. There were no deserters at the same time.

In June-October of the 1812 year, 18 mounted Bashkir regiments were organized, and at the end of 1812 - the beginning of the 1813 year, another 8 regiments were organized. And all was organized by 28 Bashkir horse regiments. Each Bashkir district or panton gave one regiment. At that time, the village of Dautovo belonged to the Yekaterinburg district, and the full address of the village of Dautovo was: Siberian road Yekaterinburg county Iset province, Tersyak volost II military canton. At the beginning of the 1813 year, 20 people left the village of Dautovo to the front as part of the 5 Bashkir cavalry regiment. The whole village of Dautovo gathered these five horsemen, since they had to go to the front in their uniforms, with their weapons, provisions and a spare horse. The people of the village of Dautovo were not rich at that time, and the population was only 75-80 people (male - 20, female - 25, children - 30).
Bashkirs from the village of Dautovo fell into the 20 Bashkir cavalry regiment at the beginning of the 1813 year.
The cavalry regiment consisted of 500 soldiers, and the commanding staff consisted of 30 people (two regimental commanders - one Bashkir, another Russian officer, 1 foreman, 5 Yasaul, 5 centurions, 5 Khorunzhiev, one mullah, clerk, ten Pentecostals).

The Bashkir people sent only 20000 people, more than 4000 horses. And what is interesting, along with their husbands and their wives, went to war with Napoleon, and one Bashkir Absalyam Utyashev arrived with his whole family.

For all this, the Russian military command sent a letter of thanks to the entire Bashkir people. After that, the Bashkirs, including the village of Dautovo, collected 500000 rubles in banknotes.

In memory of this, the Bashkirs composed the song Baik:

Oh, a million Frenchmen
Their king is Napoleon,
Already approached the capital,
On her doorstep he

Oh oh,
Oh,
Oh
Oh, what a French hero.
Oh oh,
Oh,
Oh
He graduated from our country.

Grins in the face
Raised his leg on the porch.
Azamates, like lions:
Be an enemy without a head!
The light in the eyes of the lions shines
Seen a lot of lions.

Hey hey hey hey
Pour sweet honey
Leo - Batyr approving,
Slam on the back harder.

[Karlsonn]

At the same time, 12 thousand Bashkirs guarded the borders of Russia on the border. The French had more than 2 times 180000 people.

The main weapon of the Bashkir horsemen was a brush, a sword, arrows - a bow, and only a few had a gun and a gun. Some had chain mail that they wore before the battle.
After another Bashkir sortie, where our fellow countrymen showed heroism and staunchness, General of the Russian Army Mikhail Illarionovich Kutuzov summoned the commander of the Bashkir regiment Kakhym and without restraining his feelings told him: “My dear Bashkirs, well done you.” When fellow soldiers, upon the return of Kakhym, the colonel asked what Kutuzov said, he, having difficulty in the Russian speech, conveyed Kutuzov’s words “Loving, lyubizar, maladis, maladis”.

Since then, our people have the song "Lyubizar":

Went to war
Left mother, wife.
And how they returned from the battle -
Glory to us all over the country.

Lovers, Lyubizar,
Maladis, Maladis.

The enemy was standing near Moscow
And he came to Moscow.
Then we pressed him -
I ran into a clean field.

Napoleon decided in vain
In Russia, erect a throne,
In vain to Moscow, he declared:
He was smart, now learned.

The enemy could not take Russia,
He got a lesson here:
Russian and Bashkir pressed -
They ran without feeling their legs.

And we were in Moscow,
And we saw Paris
And the French invader
We beat well.

Cobblestone streets
The French - great!
Oh, the Frenchman
On your own head.

Napoleonic General Marbo for the well-aimed shooting of the Bashkirs called them "northern cupids." And so the Northern Cupids entrenched to our people. The 1th Bashkir regiment participated in the capture of Berlin, and the 4th Bashkir, 2th Misharsky took the Glogau fortress, 5th 9th and 11th Bashkir regiments besieged and captured Leipzig.

Now near the city of Leipzig there is a monument to Russian troops, where the numbers of the Bashkir regiments are indicated.

For this battle, many Bashkirs were awarded orders: foreman of the 9th regiment of Kotlogilde Imemgolov, private of the 14th regiment Nasyr Abdulin, Abdulla Suragolov.

During the capture of Dresden, Private Yantura fought with his wife. “When the French attacked us,” Yantura recalled, “we quickly mounted our horses and rushed into battle with brushes. My horse was not afraid of anything and we shouted attacked the French. I planted a brush in one Frenchman and while he was pulling out of it, someone hit in the head behind me. When I woke up, I saw that half of my comrades were chopped up, the rest are connected, including myself. My woman was not with me, well, they killed her, I thought. An hour and a half later we were surrounded by Don Cossacks and wrested from the hands of the French. And among the Don Cossacks, my woman is jumping. It turns out that she immediately galloped for help, since the forces were clearly not equal. And for this my Asylbik was awarded a medal. ”

Bashkirs and Cossacks helped expel the French from Hamburg, Erfurt, Weimar and Frankfurt on the Main.

In the 1814 year in Germany, the scientist, poet Goethe received a bow and arrow from the Bashkir foreman, which are now stored in the Museum of Berlin.
Even Walter Scott, the illustrious English writer who visited Paris in those days, paid tribute to the Bashkirs by describing them with bows and arrows. And the Decembrist and poet Pyotr Kudryashov could not restrain his warm feelings for the Bashkirs and wrote:

"Friends! Be proud:
the whole world
Find out how powerful
Bashkir!"

stole from a pretty site

[Ascetic]

Kazakh soldiers took an active part in the Patriotic War of 1812 from the first battles at the Neman to the “Battle of the Peoples” near Leipzig and the capture of Paris. They fought mainly as part of the Orenburg cavalry regiments, often joined voluntarily in the militia. For example, the Kazakh woman Tanatarova served in the army six sons. Kazakhs, in addition to the traditional bow with arrows, were given Cossack weapons: sabers, peaks and guns. The steppe horses had their own, unpretentious, accustomed to long crossings. Kazakh warriors took them all the way to Europe to the shores of the Seine. History has preserved many names of Kazakh dzhigits who fought with the French. As part of one of the Bashkir regiments, Kazakhs Baybatyrov and Zhanzhigitov participated in foreign campaigns of the Russian army, they reached Paris and were awarded silver medals in memory of the war. Among the glorified heroes of 1812, the names of cavalry officers Major Temirov, Yesaul Yusupov, centurion Yumashev, and others are known. Another interesting fact is that one of the soldiers named Zhantore went to war with his wife. The young woman in numerous battles proved to be a clever rider and a brave warrior. In the second half of the XIX century. Kazakh generals were represented by four sultans from the Younger Zhuz, three of them were major generals, and one was a cavalry general. Earlier than others, the khan of the Inner Bukeev Horde, the great-grandson of Abulkhair, Dzhangir Bukeev, received the general rank. This was the first European-educated Kazakh, he did a lot for the civilization of the people. He was awarded the highest Russian insignia - the imperial gold medal with diamonds on the St. Andrew ribbon, the Order of St. Anna of the 1st degree with the imperial crown and diamond insignia. His eight sons received a military education.

Taken from Kazakhstan military site

How well known at the time of the war of 1812. eight Orenburg equestrians were formed Cossack regiments. How many Kazakhs served there probably must not find such data. There could be at least 60000 people along with the militia and the Bashkir regiments

[Brother Sarych]

I laugh when reading SUCH sources - it is quite possible that the Orenburg regiments included a certain number of Kazakhs, but mostly they were not formed from Kazakhs at all - remember at least for what this and other Cossack troops were formed! But they were formed to protect against the steppes - who will recruit them there? No data, because the basis for them is not and was not!
It is necessary to look for the participation of the Kazakhs in the documents of the Cossack troops, and not on semi-pornographic sites ...

[Kasym]

Srech, maybe you need eyewitnesses? Read the words Davydov said about the Kazakhs in that war! Or is he also not an authority? I’ll kill you !!!

[FunkschNNX]

Davydov did not mention about 60 thousand. To speak - he spoke, spoke positively, but did not specify the number.
The Kazakhs are normal guys, but the historians-conjuncturists are co.

[Brother Sarych]

Are you serious about this? These are fake sites, friends ...

[FunkschNNX]

Well, why couldn't the Kazakhs fight in that war? Certainly there have been cases. At the expense of mass, of course it is extremely doubtful, but piecewise - completely.

[Ascetic]

Казахи принимали православие (крестились) и под новыми именами записывались в реестр казачььих полков под новыми именами данными при крещениии К примеру Иван Петров, Также существовало ополчение и иррегулярные национальные формирования в виде башкирских полков. Тем более в Российских источниках в то время казахов именовали общим словом "киргизы", хотя на многих картинах известных художников ттого времени под видом воина киргиза в основном как раз изображены казахи. Можно погуглить и найти эти источники и картины.

[Brother Sarych]

Bashkirs are not Kazakhs - how much can you repeat!
Про "купидонов" я без вас знаю, но это не казахи...
Nagaybaki are not Kazakhs either ...
What does the Kazakhs have to do with the pictures? What do they have to do with the war of 1812?
Кстати, когда говорят о покорении Средней Азии неоднократно упоминают о так называемых "джигитах" - во многих случаях это и есть казахи, но с казаками их никогда никто не путает!

[Marek Rozny]

Everything is absolutely true!
1) Most of the Kazakhs in the Cossack army are known under Orthodox names, although there were occasionally Muslim names (as I understand it, this only concerned generous Kazakhs), and so Zhakyp became Jacob, Zhuban became Ivan, Meyirbek became Mikhail.
Yes, even my family, when she lived in Russia, used Russian names - my father was called Mikhail, my brother was called Zhenya, my cousin was Tolya. And this even though they did not accept Orthodoxy, but remained Muslims.
2) Kazakhs were then called Kyrgyz (or Kyrgyz-Kaisak), and the real Kyrgyz were called Kara-Kyrgyz.
3) There are many paintings depicting Kazakhs in the Russian army during the war with Napoleon. Both brushes of Russian artists, and German, French, Italian.

[slava.iwasenko]

But I didn’t know that half of the Russians turned out to be baptized Kazakhs, and the second half should be put by the Chinese?

[Nurius]

This link says that there were about 11 thousand of them

“In total, the Muslim peoples gave the Russian army about 25 thousand soldiers during the Patriotic War,” Nikolai Silvestrovich continues his story. - According to my calculations, 10-11 thousand Kazakhs participated in it.

http://altunurda.livejournal.com/286342.html?thread=603270

[Nagaibak]

Аскет"Насколько известно на момент войны 1812г. было сформировано восемь Оренбургских конных казачьих полков" Мне кажется здесь небольшая ошибка. 1. Казахи не могли быть в составе полков Оренбургского казачьего войска, так они не являлись казаками. Могли быть одиночные, натурализованные так сказать товарищи. 60- тысяч много даже для всей легкой конницы России. В книге "Конница на войне" В.Тараторин приводит следующие данные. " Войско Донское выставило 90 полков, в основнм 5-сотенного состава. Уральское войско в начале года 4 полка, позже, видимо, их число увеличилось до 10; Оренбургские- 3 полка; башкиры и мещеряки-22; ставропольцы-1." Автор ссылается на данные В.В. Звягинцев Русская армия 1812-1825гг.- Париж 1973,ч.4, с. 362.
2. Stavropolites are most likely Kalmyks of the Stavropol army not to be confused with the Caucasus. This is Stavropol in Samara.
3. Only Cossacks could be in Cossack regiments. For example Nagaybaki. They are not Russian, but, Cossacks! On the Orenburg regiments. The Ataman 1000th squad participated directly in the war. Besieged Danzig. The 3rd Orenburg Cossack Regiment reached Paris. 500 hundredth composition. In it there were about 78 people - Nagaybaks. The rest are Russian.
The rest of the Orenburg regiments were part of the armies in Ukraine, since before that they fought against the Turks. And they left the army in 1810-11. From non-Russian ethnic groups formed national regiments. I don’t know about the Kazakh national units and have never found anything about them in the archives. By the way, after the war, Cossacks with French surnames appeared in the OKW - no more than 5 people seem to be.

[Marek Rozny]

Based on the publication by P. L. Yudin, “Tsesarevich Alexander Nikolaevich in the Orenburg Territory in 1837”, placed in the 10th book of the “Historical Bulletin” for 1891, the Orenburg historian P.E. Matvievsky wrote in the 1950s:
“We find more accurate, albeit very scarce data in the materials about the stay of the Grand Duke Alexander Nikolaevich, accompanied by the writer V. A. Zhukovsky, in 1837 in Orenburg. On this occasion, a walk was arranged outside Orenburg, outside the Maine Courtyard. The Grand Duke was met here by two Kazakhs, dressed in rich national costumes. They introduced themselves to the prince in pure Russian, one as an orderly, the other as a messenger. The first turned out to be a Cossack officer and had a medal for taking Paris, which he received as a volunteer in one of the Orenburg Cossack regiments that participated in the Patriotic War and the liberation campaign of 1813-1814. The name of this Kazakh who remains unknown until now is first known from a letter to the writer V.I. Dahl in Orenburg, Lieutenant Ivan Vitkevich (adjutant to the ruler of the region V.A. Perovsky), seconded by the government with diplomatic missions to Central Asia through Persia. On August 31, 1837, in the Persian Shah’s summer palace, seven miles from Tehran, Vitkevich read the Russian newspaper Invalid, delivered by the Tauris Courier, on July 17–19, which describes the walk of the Grand Duke in Orenburg. “Then you rejoiced,” writes Vitkevich Dalu, “they had a feast, Vladimir Ivanovich, and he takes me in frustration that he couldn’t see how his fellow Kyrgyz citizens (Kazakhs) seemed to him, especially the prominent ones, from whom I found out from the description in Invalides one - with a medal - this is Narynbay - and I see his wise appearance in front of me. ”
Matvievsky points out that Narynbay received a medal for the capture of Paris, serving as a volunteer in one of the Orenburg Cossack regiments.

[Marek Rozny]

Referring to the materials of the Orenburg State Archive and the Museum of Local Lore, as well as to the work of M. L. Yudin “Orenburgers and Steppes in the Patriotic War of 1812”, Sharapat Kaniev writes:
“... sixteen dzhigits from the Kipchak clan of the Middle Horde turned to the chieftains of the Orenburg Cossack army with a request to send them to the war with the French. The forty-three-year-old Kazakh woman Tanatarova (she was called Tatyana at baptism) already had six sons in the Cossack troops. He joined the service and went to war also Bektemir Kulkin from the Tabyn clan. "

[Marek Rozny]

For heroism in the battle of Borodino Maylybayuly was awarded a silver medal, and foreman Karynbay Zindagululy - a medal on a blue ribbon Under the villages of Malaevo Swamp and Levia Kazakh soldiers distinguished themselves Murat Kulshoranuli и Ruffs of Azamatula, they were awarded the rank of cornet. For heroism near Vyazma Yesaul Sagit Hamitula was awarded the Order of St. Anne. Fought in the Bashkir Regiment Narynbay Zhanzhigituly became the full cavalry of St. George. As part of the Bashkir regiment, the warrior poet fought Amen Baybatyrula. Zhanzhigit-ouly and Baybatyr-ouly, who participated in the assault on the cities of Leipzig and Glogau, then joined the Russian military units sent by General Bennigsen to defeat the French troops that retreated to the city of Erfurt. The soldiers of this regiment were one of the first to enter the French capital on March 18, 1814.
Amen Baybatyrula in his poems sang the heroism of Kazakh zhigits and Russian soldiers, participated in 1853 in the campaign of the Orenburg governor V.A. Perovsky against the Kokand people, in the capture of the Ak-Mosque and the liquidation of the power of Kokand over the Syr Darya Kazakhs.
Among the participants of the Patriotic War of 1812 was a baptized Kazakh Jacob Belyakov (Zhakyp), a participant in the Russian-Turkish war, received an award from the hands of M. Kutuzov. The third Orenburg Cossack regiment under the command of Belyakov was at the forefront of the Bennigsen troops, later acted as part of the Seslavin partisan corps, participated in battles near Leipzig, Weimar, Ganau, Meziere, La Rotier. In a petition to the governor, Yakov Belyakov noted that he was Kazakh by nationality, joined the Russian army of his own free will and for many years served him honestly. In connection with the state of health, he asked to be released from service and returned to his native village.
Kazybay (Nikolay) Chernysh born in 1770. His parents died, and Kazybay brought up the Cossacks. He entered the service as a Cossack, a year later in 1788 he received the rank of Yesaul. He fought with the highlanders in the Caucasus, participated in the war with the Turks in 1807-1811. In 1812 he commanded four Cossack regiments. He distinguished himself in the Battle of Tarutino, for which he was awarded the Order of St. Anna of the I degree. For the successful pursuit of the Napoleonic units retreating from Russia, he received the Order of St. George. In 1814 he fought in France at Saint-Dizier, Briein, La Rotier. He died under the walls of Paris.
Akim Bulatov - also a pupil of the Cossacks. Born in 1773. He was recruited in 1792. In 1794 he was a participant in the assault on Prague. In 1807, he fought with the French near Heilsberg, for which he was awarded the Order of St. George. In 1812, as the head of the brigade of the Third Cavalry Corps, he participated in many rear-guard battles (battles undertaken in order to delay the advancing enemy and thereby ensure retreat to the main forces).
Then he fought in the detachment of Adjutant General Golenishchev-Kutuzov at Velizh, Vitebsk, Zvenigorod, during the liberation of Moscow. He died during the pursuit of the enemy to the Russian borders.
In the battles of Ramonovo warriors heroically fought Boranbai Shuashabay Uly and esaul Yksan Aubakir-uly. For heroism in the battle of Vyazma, Esaul of the first Teppyar regiment Sagit Hamit-uly He was awarded the Order of St. Anne III degree.
Such a historical fact is known - in Weimar, Kazakh volunteers of the Russian army met with the German writer and thinker I.V. Goethe gave him a bow with arrows and a saz syrnai (Kazakh musical instrument).

[Marek Rozny]

The Ural Cossacks were also heterogeneous in ethnic composition. During the Pugachev uprising, one of the rebel Cossack detachments included Kazakhs - residents of the Kyrgyz volost of the Ufa district, among whom was known Yesaul Abdurrazak Alimov son. The document of that era says that 10 Kyrgyz Cossacks (qırğız-qazaq - author) became warriors of the “gracious Sovereign”, i.e. E.I. Pugacheva. C. Valikhanov noted that “In some Cossack villages, almost half of the population consists of baptized Kyrgyz, for example, in Yamyshevskaya, Chistaya and some others”.
In the 60s gt. published monograph P.E. Matvievsky "Orenburg Territory in the Patriotic War of 1812: Historical Essays." Lighting the history of the Orenburg Territory in the XNUMXth century, P.E. Matvievsky paid great attention to the study of the history of the Orenburg army. Information of particular interest on admission to the Orenburg Cossacks of Kazakhs (Kyrgyz-Kaysakov), also about joining the ranks of the local Cossacks of former French prisoners of war who were in a settlement in the Orenburg province.
The Orenburg noble assembly in the 19th century included: Major General Baimukhamedov Mukhamedzhan, Sultan and Major General Baimukhamet Aiguvanov, staff captain Aitov, court counselor (very high civilian rank) Biktashev, college counselor Bikchurin, podsoltunyukoltunkyulnikovich Solunkovniki Solunkovniki Solunkovniki Solunkovnikov Muhammad Gali and many others.
In the second half of the XIX century. there is also a tendency towards an increase in the number of Orenburg Cossacks. For 47 years, that is, from 1850 to 1897, it has increased by more than 200 thousand people (more than 2 times). During this period of time, there is an active process of enlisting representatives of local peoples in the ranks of Cossacks, in connection with the Highest Directive of August 14, 1848, which said about the permission of "enrolling in the army of Bashkirs, Kyrgyz-Kaisaks and other Asians."

And more interesting information:
По сведениям Оренбургской пограничной комиссии в 1790-1815 годах 1226 местных жителей оставили свои кочевья, были записаны башкирами и уравнены с ними в правах. Также можно вспомнить, что в составе башкир есть казахский род аргын. И хотя формально они считаются башкирами, но тем не менее они четко знают, что два века назад их предки вышли из казахов, и родовое имя они сохранили. Так что нет ничего удивительного, что казахских добровольцев зачисляли в "башкирские" полки. Коли уж и в казаки массово брали, то уж к родственным башкирам тем более.

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny Ч. Валиханов отметил, что “в некоторых казачьих станицах почти половина населения состоит из крещенных киргиз, например, в Ямышевской, Чистой и в некоторых других”
1. -About the half of the pages is very doubtful. Some part could be. The Ural Cossacks, unlike the Orenburg Cossacks, were largely Old Believers and reluctantly allowed strangers to themselves. And still where Chokan Valikhanov noted it, where you can read, otherwise I do not trust the words.
Marek Rozny "штабс-капитан Аитов".
2. This is a Nagaybuck. One of the Aitovs was returned by the Kokandans after the unsuccessful campaign of Perovsky from captivity. Maybe we are talking about him.
3. The names you listed are not all Kazakh. 10% of the Orenburg Cossack army were Muslim Tatars. 9% Nagaybaki, there were many Kalmyks of 700 families and Mordovians. The most multinational army. Kazakhs al bo Russified, or there were few of them.
Marek Rozny"Во второй половине XIX в. также отмечается тенденция роста численности оренбургского казачества. За 47 лет, то есть с 1850 г. по 1897 г., оно увеличивается более чем на 200 тысяч человек (больше чем в 2 раза)."
4. The number was increased mainly due to retired soldiers (white arable), Russian peasants, Kalmyks. Kazakhs and Bashkirs if there was a meager amount. Read a lot about this.
Marek Rozny"По сведениям Оренбургской пограничной комиссии в 1790-1815 годах 1226 местных жителей оставили свои кочевья, были записаны башкирами и уравнены с ними в правах."
- I do not argue with that.

[Marek Rozny]

1) Чокан Валиханов "Избранные произведения", Алма-Ата, 1958 год.; "О мусульманстве в степи", стр. 190. Там находится искомая информация. Причем, Чокана Валиханова трудно обвинить в гиперболизации, он как раз-таки как кадровый разведчик Генштаба, пишет обычно основываясь на точности сведений. Потому его этнографические и географические труды были высоко оценены не только в РИ, но и в Западной Европе.
2) Насчет Аитова ничего сказать не могу. Аитов действительно может оказаться и казахом, и татарином, и туА насчет других фамилий - то казахи нередко записывались под "татарской" версией имени, а точнее под джагатайской (Жусiп превращалось в Юсуп, Жусип-улы в Юсупов; думаю, Вы знаете, что казахское наречие отличается дже-каньем, в отличие от прочих тюркских говоров, включая и литературный общетюркский чагатайский язык, где было йе-канье; джигит - йигит). Кроме того, меня всегда смущали казахские джекающие имена и фамилии у лиц, записанных "татарами". Это странновато, как минимум, и может объяснятся только лишь тем, что многих казахов огульно записывали в "татары".
Кстати, есть у меня данные по соц. и этническому происхождению казаков Сибирского войска (1813 год). Среди 6000 сибирских казаков - подавляющая часть, понятно, славяне, но интересно, что киргизов (в смысле казахов) у них больше, чем других тюрков: 98 казахов, 18 башкир, 1 татарин, 1 тептярь. При этом автором труда высказывается предположение о том, что казахами являются еще 4 человек из графы "уволенные от рабства", а также говорится о том, что в число "русских казаков" включены и обрусевшие инородцы. Нам остается лишь гадать об их количестве. http://sibistorik.narod.ru/project/conf2010/016-zuyev.htm Тем не менее, даже уже эти сведения дают нам представление, о том, что во-первых, казахи во время войны с Наполеоном действительно были в казачьих войсках, во-вторых, случаи нахождения казахов в русских вооруженных силах были не единичные, а вполне массовые. Кто-то упомянул цифру в 60тысяч человек - это, конечно, бездоказательная и весьма надутая цифра, но в некоторых источниках приходилось видеть цифры в 5000 человек (хотя не смогу естественно поручиться за эту цифру).
Ж.Артыкбаев в "Истории Казахстана в 19 веке" (1992 год) писал, что среди уральских казаков 3% составляли казахи.
3) Еще интересная деталь. По данным Киргизской миссии Русской православной церкви, действовавшей на территории Казахстана, с 1882 по 1917 было обращено в православие не менее полу-миллиона казахов (Ю.Лысенко, "Православие и ислам: практики этноконфессиональной коммуникации на примере русских и казахов Верхнего Прииртышья"). Напомню, что всех крещенных казахов обычно сразу же причисляли к казакам и реже - записывали мещанами. Так что даже такие косвенные сведения дают некоторое представление о немалом пополнении казачьих войск казахами.

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny "Кто-то упомянул цифру в 60тысяч человек - это, конечно, бездоказательная и весьма надутая цифра, но в некоторых источниках приходилось видеть цифры в 5000 человек (хотя не смогу естественно поручиться за эту цифру"
I, too, for justice. I wrote to you that I did not meet purely national Kazakh formations. On the other hand, the Kazakhs were in the war of 1812. The question is where? Here it is necessary to find an answer to it a little. I think if there were 5 thousand of them, then they would probably be combined into one unit. And so the topic is good to establish the number of Kazakhs. As for the Central Asian campaigns, the picture is generally similar. Everyone knows that there were some details. And if so, then sketchy. I’ve looked at the lists of awards, etc., at the RGVIA, but I didn’t see the record saying that there was a fighter of the 5th Kyrgyz-Kaisatsky hundred. Do you understand? That is, I did not meet any traces of the national Kazakh formations. Let's just say it didn’t come across to me.

[Marek Rozny]

Не было ни одного чисто казахского подразделения во время войны с Наполеоном. Вообще, кстати, русским купцам запрещалось продавать казахам (бывшими уже российскими гражданами) всяческие товары, которые могли использоваться в военных целях. Даже кухонные ножи запрещено было продавать "киргизам". Это говорит о том, что царская власть подозрительно относилась к казахам, и помня, что за царский период в казахской степи было зафиксировано около 300 мелких и крупных восстаний против произвола местной администрации, опасения царя были вполне обоснованными. Первое же национальное казахское воинское формирование создано было в 1918 году http://military-kz.ucoz.org/publ/sovetskij_kazakhstan/kazssr/kak_sozdavalis_kras
nye_kazakhskie_vojska_prikaz_revoljucionnogo_voennogo_soveta_respubliki_1918_god
/ 5-1-0-321 Moreover, in Saratov. And moreover, it was strictly forbidden to create other Kazakh national units outside the framework of the created Kyrgyz Military Commissariat. The Bolsheviks also did not want to arm the Kazakhs, so most of the Kazakh establishment (being supporters of an alliance with Russia) wanted wide autonomous rights for the Kazakh steppe. The Bolsheviks did not like this idea, as well as the whites.
And until the start of World War II, there was only one Kazakh cavalry regiment, and in the 30s it was transferred to neighboring Uzbekistan to be included in the 6th Uzbek cavalry division.
The Soviet government was well aware that the armed detachments of the Kazakhs could create a strong upheaval in the region after the excesses of collectivization, and therefore there were no national parts in Kazakhstan. Only the Second World War forced to create national divisions in the KZ for the speediest dispatch to the Western Front.
So it’s pointless to look for national parts from the Kazakhs, they were not in nature. Kazakhs were sent to serve in other parts, where most of the fighters were more trustworthy from the point of view of the tsarist government.

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny "В прошении губернатору Яков Беляков отметил, что он по национальности казах, в русское войско вступил по собственному желанию и многие годы честно служил ему. В связи с состоянием здоровья просил освободить от службы и вернуться в родной аул."
- А это Вы где взяли если не секрет? Ссылочку на дакмэнт!!! К Вашему сведению 3-й ОКП вернулся домой в 1818 году. Яков Беляков умер в походе в 1816 году и ни у какого губернатора отпрашиваться не мог. Разве,что в письменной форме. Юдин пишет "Весьма трогательная песня сложена казаками про командира 3-го полка майора Белякова, умершего в 1816 г. и который, по видимому пользовался особенной любовью казаков."- Оренбуржцы в войнах 1812-1814г. Типолитогрфия Туркестанского военного округа. Ташкент. 1912. Стр. 41. И еще 3-й ОКП был сформирован осенью 1812 года и в преследовании неприятеля на территории России не участвовал. Воевал только в заграничном походе русской армии 1813-1814.

[Marek Rozny]

In 1830, Yakov Belyakov petitioned the ruler of the Orenburg Territory P.K. Essen. Of course, in writing. Information on this letter is in all materials relating to Belyakov. I can’t say where the original is stored (if it still managed to survive), but I think in the archives of Orenburg most likely.

[Nagaibak]

Marek !!! Pancake ! I’ll swear now! Be careful!
Marek Rozny"В 1830 году Яков Беляков подал прошение правителю Оренбургского края П. К. Эссену."
I wrote to you that he died in 1816 and the Cossacks cried and invented a song about him. In 1816 he died.

[Marek Rozny]

Comrade Belyakov seems to me more and more interesting :))) I will slowly dig on the topic :) And is there still any info about it?

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny"Буду потихоньку копать по теме :) А есть еще какая инфа о нем?" Честно говоря нет кроме того, что он сменил на посту командира полка- Серебрякова- который сформировал полк и вооружал его на свои сбережения. Т.е упоминание о нем есть, что он до командования числился в Нагайбакской крепости. Во время войны стал командиром полка и умер в походе.

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny"Ссылаясь на материалы Оренбургского государственного архива и краеведческого музея, а также на работу М. Л. Юдина «Оренбуржцы и степняки в Отечественной войне 1812 года», Шарапат Каниев пишет"
-А можно ссылочку на материалы Оренбургского гос. архива? Про музей умолчу. Так вот уважаемый Марек в ГАОО-Гос.Архиве Оренбургской Области есть материалы по войне 1812 года. Например "Записки полковника Авдеева по истории Оренбургского казачьего войска- вот моя ссылочка- ГАОО, Фонд 96, Опись -1, Дело № 133. Все остальное более или менее значимое находится в Москве в РГВИА. Насколько я знаю работа М.Л.Юдина называется Оренбуржцы в войнах 1812-1814г. Слово степняки наверное Ваш исследователь Каниев добавил от лихости. Если те казахи, о которых он пишет, после войны вернулись домой, то наверное они воевали в башкирских полках. В казачьих полках могли быть только, так сказать натурализованные ребятки.

[Marek Rozny]

Yes, I agree, with the name of the Yudinskaya work, Kaniev got excited.
но тем не менее свидетельств участия казахов в составе русской армии - выше крыши. К примеру, работа Владимира Кузнецов "Иррегулярные войска Оренбургского края (XVIII-XIX вв.)":
"В середине века обострились отношения России с Кокандом, жители которого, как и хивинцы стали нападать на торговые караваны. С целью положить этому конец, решено было овладеть крепостью Ак-Мечеть. Экспедицию возглавил генерал-губернатор В.А. Перовский. The squad included: an infantry battalion, nearly 10 hundred Ural and Orenburg Cossacks, 5 hundred Bashkirs and Kazakhs each". Это не война с Наполеоном, но тем не менее, возвращает нас в первоначальной теме "Россия в туркестанской войне".
I don’t even argue much with you, whose posts I’m always interested to read and no less interesting to discuss, how much more they are aimed at other members of the forum, who, with little knowledge of the general subject of the conversation, still manage to speak insultingly to neighbors and allies.
The Kazakhs are proud to participate in the conquest of Central Asia as well as the Russians. A year ago, in the Almaty region, the Kazakhs restored a pre-revolutionary monument dedicated to the Battle of Uzunagach, in which, among other Kazakhs, Russia, for example, participated in the father of the famous Soviet-Kazakh akyn of Dzhambul - Dzhabay. Well, and the son of Dzhambul, by the way, died in the battles for Ukraine with the Nazis.
As soon as the Kazakhs again entered the Empire, they began to fight for it with all firmness and sincerity. And this applies to all Turkic-steppe and Mongol-steppe peoples.

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny "К примеру, работа Владимира Кузнецов "Иррегулярные войска Оренбургского края (XVIII-XIX вв.)"
1.- The book is super-I know, I read.
Marek Rozny"Я ведь даже не сколько с Вами спорю, чьи посты мне всегда интересно читать и не менее интересно дискутировать, сколько больше нацелены на других форумчан, которые при слабом знании вообще предмета разговора умудряются еще и обидно высказываться в адрес соседей и союзников."
2. You sometimes react violently. This is not bad since it shows that you are not indifferent. But ... I will advise you, do not spoil your nerves. Prove do not prove. They do not need it. All laugh. By the way, I'm ethnic Russian. Nick Nagaybak took as a sign of respect for this small people. But like any normal Russian person, I have in my relatives not a hypothetical Horde, but my Kazakh grandfather. By mom. They called him the kingdom of heaven. Rod Ormantay. Seem like Jagalbayles, like Junior Zhuz. I wanted to ask you exactly Ormantai is included in the Jagalbayl?

[Marek Rozny]

Thanks for the wish :) I already promised the admins to restrain myself, it will be more correct, of course.
Regarding the subgenus Ormantai: Yes, this is the genus Jagalbayly (part of the Zhetyru the Younger Zhuz association). Zhagalbayly live in the West Kazakhstan regions (Atyrau, Aktyubinsk) and also in the Orenburg region. In addition, some subgenus live in the south of Kazakhstan - in the Kyzylorda region.
By the way, during the Second World War, the 196th Gatchina Red Banner Rifle Division was formed mainly from zhagalbaylintsy. I once cited it on the site as an example on the site, as an example of courage.
http://military-kz.ucoz.org/publ/sovetskij_kazakhstan/ww2/kak_na_zapade_sochinja
jut_mify_o_kazakhakh_v_krasnoj_armii / 6-1-0-320
Here it is written how your relatives fought on the part of grandfather.

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny"Вот тут написано, как воевали ваши родственники со стороны дедушки"
THANKS HUGE for the answer !!! I will restore the pedigree. The grandfather of the orphanage was, it seems, as they say. According to family legend, it seems like from bais. He lived in the eastern part of the Orenburg region. Although I relate to family legends with distrust. Let's say 50 -50. From personal experience. He did not know about the zhagalbaylintsev in the 196 division. I will get acquainted with interest. My grandfather did not fight. He had a reservation. He worked on the railway, they did not let go. Then on the Internet I found a tamga ax from the Ormantai. This is to my liking. Thanks for the help again. I will be glad to meet on the expanses of Military Review! Yes, despite the fact that in my blood 25% of Kazakh blood is glad that I have a relationship with the Younger Zhuz! After all, as they say:
Ulujuzdi kauga beryp malga koy,
Horta-juzdah kalam beryp daug koy,
Kshi juzda nyza beryp jauga koi, i.e.
Give the elder horde a stick in your hands and leave the cattle to graze;
Let the middle horde sue (or decide cases),
Give the younger horde a peak and set against the enemy. That is, the older horde has a large number of cattle, the middle one has good biys, the younger horde has a more belligerent character. Sincerely.

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny"Матвиевский указывает, что Нарынбай получил медаль за взятие Парижа, служа добровольцем в одном из Оренбургских казачьих полков"
- I have no doubt about the participation of Kazakhs in the war with Napoleon. The Cossack regiments could include naturalized Kazakhs. It is easy. But their number was small.

[Brother Sarych]

Мой комментарий был удален за то, что я нелестно отозвался о содержании некого места, выше поименованного "казахстанский военный сайт"...
I can only repeat once again that apart from the blatant lies about the participation of the Kazakhs in the war of 1812, there is nothing there - this is precisely this war, everything else deserves a separate discussion ...

[Marek Rozny]

Санкт-Петербург, 1894, "Нападение киргизов на французский лагерь". С картины профессора Виллевальде. Гр. А. Куршинский.

Description:
"Нападение киргизов на французский лагерь. Профессор Виллевальде написал целую серию картин эпохи отечественной войны. Помещаемая нами картина в копии в настоящем номере нашего журнала картина его представляет одну из тех сцен, которыми всегда так богаты войны. Это – нападение наших киргизов на лагерь неприятеля, полное дикости и страшное сумятицы. По обыкновению, картина почетного профессора отличается тщательностью письма и знанием эпохи".

[Marek Rozny]

Bashkir and Kyrgyz (Kazakh) in the Russian army during the time of Napoleon
http://www.napoleon-online.de/cappi_russen1815.html

[Marek Rozny]

Kyrgyz (Kazakh) in the Russian army. The era of Napoleonic troops.
Information about the artist and this series of paintings:
"Um 1815 veröffentlichte der 1801 von Giovanni ("Johann") Cappi in Wien gegründete Musikverlag eine Uniformserie, die ausschließlich der Russischen Armee gewidmet ist. Auf der Tafel 9 der vorliegenden Kopie, die in der Universität- und Landesbibliothek Darmstadt liegt, findet sich die Signatur "C. Beyer" für Zeichnung und Gravur. Colas gibt die Serie mit nur 18 Tafeln an, das Darmstädter Original umfasst jedoch insgesamt 23 Tafeln".
http://www.napoleon-online.de/cappi_russen1815.html

And I want to note that this European artist so accurately depicted everything that even on the croup of a horse he painted a sign that he hardly understood what it means, but when looking at the picture it becomes clear to the Kazakh even from which region this rider is. The horse’s croup depicts tamga adaev (a West Kazakh clan living on the Caspian coast).

[Marek Rozny]

http://www.napoleon-online.de/html/sauerweid_russland1807.html
Автор написал "Калмык", но явно ошибся. На картине 100% изображены казахи.
And here is what Kalmyks looked like in the Russian army - http://www.napoleon-online.de/Russland_Voltz1805_Tafel7.jpg The difference is obvious.

[Marek Rozny]

На картинке написано "Конный киргиз" (в русской армии). Эта картина, как и предыдущие все были нарисованы в эпоху войны с Наполеоном русскими и европейскими художниками. И это не единственные имеющиеся у меня художественные материалы по участию казахов в войне 1812 года.
It is a pity that here for some reason pictures on my site have attached a small size. Some of them are literally crammed with interesting details. By the way, almost all the Kazakhs of that era were painted with firearms, but Kalmyks and Bashkirs rarely had karamultuki.

[Nagaibak]

[Marek RoznyА вот как выглядели калмыки в русской армии"
- Marek it is obvious to you. The people of the average are the same. The same malachi on their heads, bathrobes, bows and arrows.

[Nagaibak]

[Marek Rozny"
-If seriously, we can say one thing in the war of 1812, the 60000th detachment was not. There were no national Kazakh formations either. Separate batyrs volunteers could well be. But with the then accounting, finding them will not be easy. Go guys to Moscow and you can find something more in the archives than we know now. There is nothing special to do in Orenburg. It’s better not to go to museums, she’ll tell you such a thing! -Joke! I will be happy for you!

[Marek Rozny]

- But I do not like Kirkorov ... He is a kind of sweet one. In a word, Romanian!
- He’s actually a Bulgarian ...
- What's the difference!

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny"- Да какая разница!"
With rare exceptions, somewhere like that.

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny"На крупе лошади изображена тамга адаев (западно-казахский род, проживающий на побережье Каспия)."
- Adaev, as I know, there were several types of them. One of them is just turned in the opposite direction. Although it may not have played a role, where is it turned there? Name Air tamga Sadak, approx. Uranus at Adaev-Becket

[Marek Rozny]

Это "Садак". Там, где на картинке копье закрывает часть тамги, должна быть еще очень маленькая черточка. Возможно, европейский художник просто не увидел ее. Или намеренно "прикрыл" копьем, потому что не понял, надо ли рисовать эту черточку или это просто шкура лошади испорчена :))) Уж прям в аккурат "копье" перекрещивает тамгу :))) А в целом тамга нарисована с правильным расположением.
А вот другую тамгу адайцев - "ок" сейчас чаще по-другому изображают - вверх ногами. Наверное, просто чисто визуально стрела, устремленная вверх выглядит симпатичнее :) Раньше ее рисовали острим вниз. А сейчас, что на сувенирах, что на аватарках - стрелка нацелена вверх. Не знаю, почему так стали изображать. С другой стороны меня это радует - тамги не остались в прошлом и не застыли навечно, а и сегодня существуют, известны среди современных казахов и даже меняются! Значит рано сдавать нацию в музей :))) Еще посверкаем тамгами на иобразительных картинах всяких Джонов Пэйнтеров в 21 веке - "Казахские танкисты из Евразийской армии врываются в Вашингтон" :)))) Шучу :)

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny "Раньше ее рисовали острим вниз."
I have an image where the tip is down. Then S, but turned around suddenly and with it like a comma, maybe it is a wand. Then this = tamga. And it’s kind of like ^ just smooth. The sign is less, more is only up. And it's kind of like tamga adaev, is it like that or not?

[Marek Rozny]

S flipped the other way - the same thing.
triangle - tamga subgenus Karasakal (genus bayuli) - by the way, are also Western Kazakhstan people.
sign = for Naimans (eastern KZ), among western Kazakhs this sign (but vertical) is for several genera - the subgenus Kyzylkurt (genus Bajula), the Kipchaks (Zap.Kz + Northern KZ), the subgenus Tama (genus Zhetyru) and Kereits ( genus zhetyru, they have a tamga with an additional line).
Variations of tamgas arose to distinguish in one subgenus the cattle of their family from the neighbor's. Those. deliberately changed the common sign for some small hoarfishes.

[slava.iwasenko]

Вы наверное в казахи всех татар,башкир и калмыков записали,да в те времена и такого понятия как "казах" не существовало,были отдельные разрозненные кочевые племена,называемые киргиз-кайсаками.

[Marek Rozny]

1) Казахстанские учебники не пишут про "оккупацию". Везде подчеркивается, что казахи добровольно вошли в состав растущей Империи. Причем на определенных условиях (земли не отбирать, в армию не рекрутировать, ханскую власть не трогать). И после того, как С-Пб все эти условия нарушил на все 100% казахи имеют формальное (но необязательное) право назвать период нахождения в составе Российской империи "оккупацией". Российская власть пришла на одних условиях в казахскую степь, а в итоге сама же и переделала "правила игры".
2) "Пинков с юга" нам никто не навешивал. Армии этих ханств чуть более, чем на 100% состояли из казахов и в меньшей степени туркмен. А когда казахские наемники присоединились к сородичам, перешедшим в российское гражданство, то все эти коканды оказались "голыми" и безоружными. Местные власти тупо рекрутировали для войны с пришлыми русскими сартов, которые до этого никогда оружия не держали.
3) Dzungars were defeated on the battlefield by Kazakhs and Manchurians without Russian help. But in Russia they do not like to remember that the Dzhungars received weapons from Russia. And also that formally, the Dzungars were Russian citizens and constantly asked Saint Petersburg for protection from the Kazakhs. The Russian empire indifferently looked at the Kazakh-Dzungarian centuries-old wars, hanging noodles on the ears of both sides, promising their high protection. As a result, the jungars were completely destroyed, and the last large fragment of the Golden Horde in the person of the Kazakhs was exhausted to the limit by an endless war.
Ну, а назвав казаха и сарта 18-19 веков "братьями по вере" Вы совсем доказали, что слабовато разбираетесь в туркестанских реалиях. Рядовые казахи вплоть до 20 века имели смутное представление об исламе, в отличие от набожных сартов. Причем и ныне среднестатистический казах является весьма формальным муслимом, а современный узбек, как правило, примерный мусульманин.
Вы немца-баптиста и православного якута можете легко и непринужденно назвать "братьями по вере"? Думаю, что различий между ними куда больше, чем схожестей.

[Fox]

yes ... Eternal Glory to our Ancestors Cossacks, Great Warriors!

[anchonsha]

Comprehending now all the military operations of tsarist Russia in Central Asia, you come to the conclusion that it could not be otherwise. Central Asia was the gateway to Russia for raids, and therefore Central Asia has always been of interest to Small Britain in this regard. How many bribery by the British of different khans and bais about raids on Russia with the aim of its depletion were. Therefore, Asia was annexed to Russia and not so aggressively as through contracts with the population.

[Dikremnij]

Not everything is as you say: many trade routes passed through Central Asia, and owning them meant having substantial and constant income to the treasury. And as for Great Britain, here you are right, indeed, they tried to drive Russia out of this region and conquer it by themselves. After all, all wars have primarily economic interests.

[Nagaibak]

Dikremnij"Не все так, как Вы говорите: через Центральную Азию проходило много торговых путей и владение ими означало иметь существенные и постоянные доходы в казну". К этому необходимо прибавить -ХЛОПОК! Для русское легкой промышленности самое-то. Не покупать у кого то, а иметь свое.

[FunkschNNX]

Before that, they normally managed flax.

[Poppy]

it’s hard to make gunpowder out of flax

[donchepano]

Nice little guys were. Pride of Russia

[Alekseir162]

The great ones were WARRIORS, the pride of Russia. Eternal glory to them.

[Lucky]

Cossack family, no translation, Cossacks are quietly protesting !!!

[Vladimirets]

If Cossacks are reborn, then joyfully, of course, is not joyful when mummers under the guise of Cossacks are reborn. When in the Moscow or Vladimir region some Cossacks appear, it’s ridiculous, right. And to those Cossacks, condo, thank you very much and bow from the descendants.

[Black]

In the wide steppe under Icahn
We were surrounded by an evil Kokan,
And three days with a basurman
We were in full bloody battle.
We retreated .... he is behind us
In crowds of thousands walked;
He covered our path with bodies
And blood flowed onto a snowy valley.
We lay down .... bullets whistled
And the cores tore to pieces
But we didn’t blink an eye,
We stood .... we are Cossacks!

Article-ANY !!!!!

[The centurion]

Quote: Chen

Article-ANY !!!!!

Thank you!
Where does the verse come from, or is it a song?

[pioneer]

Do not forget the simple Russian peasant who made up the bulk of the troops. And the Cossack is a pro, from a young age he learned to fight. What can I say - the ETERNAL MEMORY of the HEROES of those forgotten wars!

[knn54]

And officers. And how they fought! Losses, for example, during the capture of the Andijan fortress were 2 orders of magnitude lower than that of the soldiers of the Kokand Khan (despite the British advisers). Your feat is in our hearts.
It is a pity that the Kyrgyz, Tajiks forgot ... who liberated their ancestors from centuries of slavery.

[Marek Rozny]

Sorry, but you have some kind of strange picture about that period ...
Вообще-то русская армия встала на сторону "рабовладельца" и убивала, кстати, простых дехкан, которые посмели восстать против своего хана, подчинившегося России (а перед этим восставшие прогнали сами предыдущих сатрапчиков). И это даже не попытки "переписать историю" (как любят в России называть всё то, что звучит некомплиментарно русскому уху), а сведения из БСЭ.


Kokand rebellion 1873 - 1876

The Kokand rebellion of 1873-1876, an uprising on the territory of the Kokand khanate. It began as an anti-feudal movement of Kyrgyz nomads, caused by an increase in taxes and taxes by the Kokand khan Khudoyar. A part of the clergy and feudal lords joined the uprising led by Ishaq Mulla Hasan-oglu (acting under the name of Pulat-bey). However, the participation in it at certain stages of the representatives of secular and spiritual nobility did not generally change the popular character of the uprising, for its main driving force was the broad masses of the people, who opposed both khan oppression and the military expansion of Russian tsarism. Khudoyar Khan sent a punitive detachment led by Abdurakhman Aftobachi against the rebels, but he failed to crush the uprisings; during 1874 and mid-1875 clashes took place between the rebel and khan troops. ... Khudoyar Khan turned to the Turkestan Governor-General for help and in the summer of 1875 fled to Tashkent under the protection of the Russian troops. Khan was proclaimed Nasreddin-bek, who secretly from the rebels on September 22, 1875 concluded an agreement with the Turkestan governor-general K.P. Kaufman and recognized himself as a vassal of Russia. The treacherous policy of Nasruddin-khan led to a new upsurge in C. not only against the khan, but also against Russian tsarism. Instead of Nasruddin, Khan was proclaimed Pulat-bek. The rebels gained a number of successes, however, in January-February 1876, Russian troops under the command of General D. M. Skobelev defeated the rebels at Andijan and Assake. Pulat Khan with 5 thousand rebels strengthened in the fortress Uchkurgan, but Skobelev took control of the fortress. The Pulat Khan managed to escape, but he was soon captured and executed (March 1876).
=========
Касательно потерь русской армии в боях с восставшими... Вы бы еще сравнили потери белорусских жителей в деревнях с потерями СС. Вообще картинка будет шикарной! На одного немца - несколько десятков убитых "противников". Или Вам неприятно сравнение "своих" карателей с пресловутыми нацистскими?
Так Вы ещё предлагаете киргизам и таджикам вспомнить, кто их освободил от рабства "в андижанах"? Ей-богу, дурацкая идейка.

[Kolchak]

OUR! Orenburg !!!

[chaban13]

OUR! Orenburg !!!

yeah, countrymen)))

[Karlsonn]

Excellent article .

on the picture:

Cossacks in Turkestan. Ural Cossack officer Divers.

[Karlsonn]

Under a vague talk, slender din,
Through the measured sparkling of balls
So strange to see on the walls
Tall old generals.

Hello voice, clear look
Eyebrow graying bends
They don't tell us anything
About what they could say.

And it seems like in a whirlwind of days,
Among dignitaries and dandies,
They forgot about their
A fragrant legend.

They forgot the days of longing
Ночные возгласы: "К оружью!",
Sad Salt Flats
And walk the measured camel;

Fields of an unknown land
And the death of an unlucky company,
And Uch-Kuduk and Kinderli,
And the Russian flag over white Khiva.

Forgot? - Not! 'Cause every hour
Somehow diligent
The glow of calm eyes fogs
Reminds them of the former.

"Что с вами?" - "Так, нога болит".
- "Подагра?" - "Нет, сквозная рана". -
And immediately the heart will pinched
Longing for the sun of Turkestan.

And I was told that no one
Of these old veterans,
In the midst of the copies of Dream and Watteau,
Amid soft chairs and sofas,

Won't hide a decrepit bed
He served on campaigns,
To forever excite the heart
Remembering adversity.

Photo from Turkestan Album.

[Marek Rozny]

From Kaufman's album:
Георгиевские кавалеры имеющие знаки отличия военного ордена - "За дело под Иканом 5-7 декабря 1864 года", казах Жанмухамет.

[Marek Rozny]

Turkestan Kaufman album 1871-1872
Георгиевские кавалеры имеющие знаки отличия военного ордена - "За дело под Иканом 5-7 декабря 1864 года", казах Ахмет.

[Marek Rozny]

Dauletpakuly Nogaybay, a major in the tsarist army, served under the command of Chernyaev and Kolpakovsky.
He was born in 1834 in the territory of the modern Kordai district of the Zhambyl region. The grandson of the famous Biy Maldybai from the Kaskarau-Zhanys clan. He fought with Kokand, took part in the battle of Uzunagash.
In 1864, disagreeing with the action of General Chernyaev against the civilian population of the city of Aulie-Ata together with the leaders of the clan Shapyrashty and Sikym decides to leave the ranks of the Russian expeditionary forces.
However, as a result of the mediation of Ch. Valikhanov and Kolpakovsky, an agreement was again reached on the continuation of the military campaign with the participation of Kazakh soldiers. In 1867, by decree of the emperor Nogaybai Dauletpak uly, his first military rank was awarded - captain and a caftan of 3 ranks was granted.
From 1868 to 1907 he was a volost ruler in Vernensky and Pishpek counties. He took an active part in the negotiations with China.
In 1881 he took part in the creation of the Issikkul-Tokmak customs, heading the supervisory board of customs.
============
Когда казаки пишут о своих победах, они напрочь отрицают участие казахов на своей стороне. Ни архивы, ни фотографии, ни мемуары современников не могут заставить их поверить в то, что русская армия в Туркестане не была "чисто русской". Туркестанские победы (над узбеками) делались и руками казахов, которые ко времени туркестанских походов были уже давно российскими гражданами. И несмотря на отсутствие обязательной армейской обязаловки, казахи охотно шли служить в русскую армию. Отдельная тема - помощь казахов русской армии провиантом, фуражом, водой, проводниками в туркестанских экспедициях и материально-финансовый вклад во время войны с Наполеоном.

[Marek Rozny]

And more.
All these Kokandy-Khiva-Bukhara were protected with the help of Kazakh army (точнее казахских наемников, коих сарты называли просто "кипчаки" по имени одного из самых известных казахских родов). Сами "узбеки" к войне никогда не были приучены. У них другая профессиональная деятельность. Сарты - торговцы, ремесленники, дехкане и пр. Но никак не солдаты.
When the bulk of the Kazakh clans received Russian citizenship, soon the Kazakh mercenaries, who made up the army of the Uzbek khanates, simply also joined Russia. Kokand-Khiva remained defenseless. They did not have people capable of commanding armies that were hastily recruited from yesterday's peasants and merchants. / Numerous Sart armies fled from the first shots, and some Sarts even ran home before the battle. Remember the memories of those who were then in the Russian army - everyone emphasizes that the armies of these khanates were not real. They didn’t even have a weapon, picking sticks most often. After the Russian army defeated the Turkmens (here the Turkmens are soldiers), the khanates remained completely naked in the defense sphere. They were doomed.
Казахам было пофиг до мифической сартской агрессии. Сколько раз казахам нужно было, столько раз и брали все эти ташкенты. Но самое смешное, что основные казахские султаны, якобы страдавшие от действий какого-нибудь коканда, незадолго до этого нередко сами были бывшими кокандскими правителями, которых выгнали нафиг из города и теперь они жаждали вернуться туда на плече казахских добровольцев и русской армии. Если внимательнее почитаете биографии некоторых казахских султанов боровшихся с "кровавым режимом" Коканда-Хивы-Бухары, то можете заметить, что они сами когда-то были правителями этих земель :)))

[Marek Rozny]

Another photograph and biography of the Kazakh from the Orenburg Cossacks:

Salyk Babazhanov - Yesaul of the Orenburg Cossack Army, Advisor to the Provisional Council for the Administration of the Astrakhan Province.

Salyk Karauylkozhauly Babazhanov was born in 1831 in the Inner Bukeev Horde (modern Ural region). His father, Karauylkozha Babazhanov, was the father-in-law of the khan of the Bukeev horde - Zhangir Bukeev. He was the foreman of the coastal Kazakhs, Yesaul.

In 1841, S. Babazhanov entered the first Russian-Kazakh school that opened in the khan’s horde and finished it in 1844. After that, his parents sent him to study in Orenburg in the Neplyuyev cadet corps. Babazhanov was admitted to the Asian branch. At this department, translators were trained for Russian administrative bodies and military institutions. Together with S. Babazhanov, seven more Kazakh youths studied - the offspring of khans, sultans, biys, volost and foremen. These are Arsylankerey Bukeikhanov, Zulkarnay Nuralikhanov, Mukhamedzhan Bekmukhamedov, Sultanmahmud Zhanturin, Zhusup Niyazov, Sultan Shalabaev, Myrzagali Sangyrykov and others.
In 1851, having successfully graduated from the Orenburg Cadet Corps, Babazhanov received the military rank of cornet. As a well-graduated cadet corps, a young talented officer S. Babazhanov goes to work in the Orenburg border commission.
In 1860, the Orenburg authorities awarded him the rank of centurion. He becomes an adviser to the Provisional Council for the Management of the Inner Bukeev Horde.
Salyk Babazhanov was a student and friend of the outstanding oriental scientist V. B. Grigoriev. He constantly sent materials that had ethnographic significance to the Russian Geographical Society. For active participation in the work of the ethnographic department, a significant contribution to the work, published valuable articles on the life of the Kazakh people in February 1862, Babazhanov was elected a member of the Russian Geographical Society and was awarded a large silver medal. He became the second Kazakh elected as a member of the Russian Geographical Society after Ch. Valikhanov and the first Kazakh officially awarded a silver medal for scientific work. Ethnographic items and archaeological finds discovered by Babazhanov were exhibited at the Museum of the Russian Geographical Society, and later transferred to the Hermitage.

Along with this, S. Babazhanov was a full member of the Russian Scientific Society of Trade, Industry, and the Free Economy. For the report made at a meeting of the company, he was awarded a special diploma.

In 1862, S. Babazhanov, having left the clerical service, was engaged in private affairs for some time. However, soon due to material difficulties, he returned to public service. In 1868, he was appointed adviser to the Provisional Council for the Administration of the Astrakhan Province.

[Marek Rozny]

Another participant in the Turkestan campaigns is Sultan Gazi Vali Khan. (Photo courtesy of Schubler) http://zerrspiegel.orientphil.uni-halle.de/t870.html

"Последний владетель Киргиз-Кайсаков Большой и Средней орд, султан Гази Булатович Вали-Хан, полковник Л.-гв. Атаманского Е.И.В. Наследника Цесаревича полка.
... The nine-year-old Gazi was sent with his uncle Khan-Khoja and 80 Kyrgyz to Omsk, where he entered the Siberian Cadet Corps. Sultan Gazi Bulatovich, 16 years old, graduated from the corps, was promoted to cornet and appointed to be at the disposal of the Governor-General of Western Siberia.
In the year Ghazi Bulatovich entered the Siberian corps, his relative, Sultan Chokan Valikhanov, descended from one of the younger wives of Vali Khan, later a traveler and author of Essays on the Dzungaria and other works about the East, who died in 1865 ... left the General Duhamel ... transferred the young cornet of Gazi-Vali-Khan to Tobolsk, having seconded him to a regiment located in this city.
...По Высочайшему повелению султан Гази Вали-Хан был прикомандирован к Лейб-гвардии Казачьему Его Величества полку и участвовал с этим полком в походе против польских мятежников. Затем, узнав об отправлении военной экспедиции в Среднюю Азию, он пожелал принести пользу русскому правительству и перевелся на службу к начальнику Алтавского округа и киргизов Большой орды, в укрепление Верное, где формировался отряд М.Г. Черняева. Назначенный начальником всей киргизской милиции, он по пути к городу Аулиэ-Ата, путем своих родственных связей со старшими султанами Большой орды, дядями Тезеком и Али Аблай-Ханом, склонил непокорные племена Дулутов и Кара-Киргизов (Бурутов) перейти в русское подданство. После этой экспедиции, в которой, во время взятия коканской крепости Аулиэ-Ата, он выказал «личную храбрость», султан Гази Вали-Хан вышел в отставку, но вскоре снова был призван на службу в Л.-гв. Атаманский Е.И.В. Наследника Цесаревича полк, в списках которого числится и поныне. С 1879 по 1881 г. султан Гази Булатович находился в учебном кавалерийском эскадроне (в настоящее время офицерская кавалерийская школа), а во время коронации, по Высочайшему повелению, состоял почетным переводчиком при хивинском хане и бухарском наследнике престола (ныне бухарском эмире). Кроме того, он не один раз был командирован пограничными властями на границы Китая для принятия посольств и дунганских депутаций".

[Marek Rozny]

Chokan (Shokan) Chingisovich Valikhanov (Kazakh. Shohan Ukhanikhanly, real name - Muhammed-Khanafiya, November 1835, Amankaragai district, winter Kuntimes, Region of Siberian Kyrgyz, Russian Empire - April 10, 1865, Urochany uchochen-Kochen) ethnographer and folklorist, traveler, enlightener, and also an intelligence officer of the General Staff of the Russian Army.

Valikhanov’s studies were published in the works of the Russian Geographical Society, also published in Berlin (1862), in London (1865) and included in the 6th and 7th volumes (1878-1879) of 19-volume French General Geography (fr. " La Nouvelle géographie universelle ") Elise Reclus.
He made the famous trip to Kashgar, which was a forbidden region for all representatives of European states.

Chokan Valikhanov - Genghisides, great-grandson of the famous Khan Ablai.

Participation in the campaign Chernyaeva.
"...Город Верный был оплотом Российской империи в Семиречье. Но юг современного Казахстана тогда находился под властью Кокандского ханства. Россия продолжила завоевание Туркестана, направив свои войска на эти земли, населенные казахами. Чокан Валиханов принял участие в этом походе. В чине штабс-ротмистра он служил переводчиком при главном командовании, где исполняя служебные обязанности, способствовал установлению дружественных взаимоотношений русских властей с местным населением, а также справедливому решению споров из за пастбищ между казахами и киргизами и т. д.

However, the reprisal of troops over the civilian population during the capture of the fortresses of Pishpek (Bishkek) and Aulie-Ata (Taraz) in 1864 so deeply outraged Valikhanov that after several heated disputes with Colonel Chernyaev, seeing no other way out, he returned to Verny.

The path of Chokan Valikhanov was repeated and expanded by his fellow countryman and blood brother Lavr Kornilov, a well-known tsarist general and one of the founders of the Volunteer White Army. Kornilov’s father is an Irtysh Cossack, and his mother is a baptized Kazakh from the Argyn clan. At the end of the Nikolaev General Staff Academy, Captain Kornilov, using his Asian appearance and knowledge of six languages, carried out reconnaissance expeditions to Persia, Afghanistan, Kashgar, China and India at the end of the 426th and beginning of the 1907th centuries. His book “Kashgaria or East Turkestan” (XNUMX pages with appendices), which became a significant contribution to geography, ethnography, military and geopolitical science and brought the author well-deserved success, was noticed by British experts and, like Valikhanov’s works, was immediately reprinted in England. As the modern researcher M.K. Baskhanov established, the cartographic material for the English edition of the "Military Report on Kashgar" in XNUMX represents the plans of cities and fortifications of East Turkestan, published in the work of L. G. Kornilov.

[Nagaibak]

Marek Rozny"И несмотря на отсутствие обязательной армейской обязаловки, казахи охотно шли служить в русскую армию. Отдельная тема - помощь казахов русской армии провиантом, фуражом, водой, проводниками в туркестанских экспедициях и материально-финансовый вклад во время войны с Наполеоном."
- It’s hard to disagree. With what I disagree, with a dismissive attitude towards the Cossacks. Neglect of them was expensive for their opponents of that time and this is a fact!

[Follow us]

Current Cossacks can do that? To take five hundred fortresses.

[Brother Sarych]

So for this Skobelev is needed at the head!

[Bubo]

And that’s right ...

[Karlsonn]

Follow us

now there are no Cossacks, the Cossacks are a military estate that received certain privileges for certain functions, the sunset of the Cossacks began with the appearance of the Border Guard corps in Russia, but under the Soviet regime and the abolition of the estates this sunset ended.
if interested, here:
[media = http: // http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = 7lMhzTwzU5s & feature = player_embedded
]

concise and capacious enough.

[Karlsonn]

Follow us

now there are no Cossacks, the Cossacks are a military estate that received certain privileges for certain functions, the sunset of the Cossacks began with the appearance of the Border Guard corps in Russia, but under the Soviet regime and the abolition of the estates this sunset ended.
if interested, here:

[Bubo]

Or a hundred from the army to fight back ...

[FunkschNNX]

I met data that about 25 people from all Muslim peoples participated in that war, and 000 thousand Kazakhs are most likely something of modern history tests. In another 60 years, there will be all 20 thousand.

[bart74]

Glorious were the times! Glory to the ancestors!

[GOLUBENKO]

Kasym,

Sergey, look at the dates. Kazakhstan was already part of the Russian Empire for almost 2 centuries and did not have its own army. By this time, Napoleon was already given ass kicks together - at least 60 Kazakhs took part in World War II. And also on the number of participants in these campaigns (one Kazakh clan, and their 000 + 96, could set no less).
И давайте перестанем друг друга "подкалывать" , это приводит к нехорошим последствиям .

But after all, the Kazakh khans themselves asked for the structure of the Russian Empires, and that is, archives with documents. But since 1992, for some reason you have called Russia the occupier. The monument to the ataman Yermak was demolished; the city was renamed in Pavlodar region and Yermak was also recorded as an occupier of the Kazakh people, although he fought the Siberian Tatars in the Tyumen region.
Sense of your quantity, it is better a hundred Cossacks of any army than a regiment of Kazakhs, who were insane and cowardly warriors.

[Kasym]

СЕРГЕЮ (ГОЛУБЕНКО). "ВЫ НАЗЫВАЕТЕ РОССИЮ ОККУПАНТОМ". Я такого не писал .
"Толку от вашего ...." . А ВЫ посмотрите кол-во Героев СССР , являющихся по национальности казахами . Или напомнить про дивизию Панфилова . И т.д. и т.п. .
Conscience must be written. Or are you, like Srych, brown?

[Serge]

They need your answers to arrange another srach, just react with facts and your opponents will have nothing to say))

[romb]

Я не знаю, где Вы это слышали, что мнение об русских братьях как "оккупантах" это мнение большинства казахов.
And about the cowardice of the Kazakhs, you put it mildly - very excited. Meet a Kazakh somewhere, and tell him about it in person. I promise, after you come to your senses, I personally will send you a pack of semolina to the hospital)))))))
Как сказал один из офицеров Капчагайского ДШБ: "Дайте мне эту бригаду, да в средневековье. Я за две недели - ра.х.ярю все империи мира". Вопрос как всегда упирался в обычное технологическое превосходство - холодное оружие, против огнестрельного ... ну явно не прет.....

[Marek Rozny]

Фразу "русские - оккупанты" обычно сами русские же и произносят, пугая друг друга мифическим национализмом в Казахстане. Ни в речи госчиновников, ни в учебниках, да и просто даже на улице, никто не услышит подобные выражения.
BUT!
The monument to Ermak was demolished, because Ermak is a real occupier. For Russians, the Siberian and Kazakh Khanates are two unrelated states, and for Kazakhs, the Siberian Khanate is another Kazakh country inhabited by the same Kazakh clans as in the Kazakh Khanate. For the Kazakhs (and indeed for the Turks), a generic name is more important than an ethno-political one. The Siberian Tatars actually consist of the same clans as the Kazakhs of the Middle Zhuz (Argyns, Naimans, Keres, Kipchaks, etc.) Ermak remained an invader in epics, and in Soviet times, the Kazakhs demanded that this monument be removed, well, after the collapse of the USSR - immediately they demolished everything that was poked around here related to this hated enemy.
Давайте мы в России поставим памятник Батыю в Козельске Калужской области, а потом будем наивно и искренне удивляться, а что это местные жители психуют? Батый - нормальный же чувачок, наш родной ордынец, а значит по умолчанию добрый малый, гуманист и миротворец. Он же просто присоединял мирно русские земли, которые страдали от своих баев и князей. Козельцы должны лелеять памятник Батыю, уважать историю и не сметь называть святого героя казахского народа Бату Саин-хана (так его называли казахи) - "оккупантом". Will such an arrangement be clear to you? Ermak is the enemy of the Kazakhs. And the Kazakhs on this score did not change their views either before the revolution, or in Soviet times, or now.

[GOLUBENKO]

Kasym,

"Толку от вашего ...." . А ВЫ посмотрите кол-во Героев СССР , являющихся по национальности казахами . Или напомнить про дивизию Панфилова . И т.д. и т.п. .

Here is a theme about the events of the XNUMXth century. And I touched on the topic of the entry of (voluntary) khans of your zhuzes into the empire.
At the same time, the imperial authorities, using the Cossacks, had to restore order for almost the entire XNUMXth century. For your buys were very fond of robbing each other (the barant is called) and also attacking the trade caravans that went to Irbit from Turkestan and back.
By the way, my great-grandfather took part in a campaign in Turkestan, where he earned an officer rank.
romb,

Я не знаю, где Вы это слышали, что мнение об русских братьях как "оккупантах" это мнение большинства казахов.

I was born and raised like the four generations of my ancestors of the Siberian Cossack lands of the Siberian Cossack army. And I heard and read this in the press repeatedly.
You from the Mattress Country can’t understand this at all.

And about the cowardice of the Kazakhs, you put it mildly - very excited. Meet a Kazakh somewhere, and tell him about it in person. I promise, after you come to your senses, I personally will send you a pack of semolina to the hospital)))))))

Yes, we have beaten these Rimbos in their youth, and quite a few, the hero in a crowd for one.
Moreover, their international was beaten by Russians, Ukrainians and Germans.
And save your green candy wrappers for yourself.

Как сказал один из офицеров Капчагайского ДШБ:"Дайте мне эту бригаду, да в средневековье. Я за две недели - ра.х.ярю все империи мира". Вопрос как всегда упирался в обычное технологическое превосходство - холодное оружие, против огнестрельного ... ну явно не прет.....

Do not smoke more than this, it is generally not rushing to this topic.

[romb]

Ну если Вы "лупили" так, как это делали в районе малой станицы или верховьях "Большой Алматинки" - тогда все понятно))))))
Это значит, мы зря туда регулярно ходили, и вас "борцунов" с чеченского счетчика снимали)))))

[marshes]

There, on the small page, the Nokhchi were tough.

[Marek Rozny]

А я из Коктема и КИЗов, чаще дрались с ардагером и "снежинкой" в 90-е :))) С малой станицей у нас отношений никаких не было :)

[marshes]

В Алматы группа молодых казахстанских общественных деятелей выступила с призывом не поддаваться на провокации российского “политтехнолога” - оголтелого националиста Александра Белова (настоящая фамилия Александр Поткин), пишет газета "Время".

Alexander Belov
According to media reports, this figure, convicted in the Russian Federation for inciting ethnic hatred, an active member of the ethnopolitical association "Russians", conducted systematic trainings with Kazakh youth.
Kazakh students were allegedly taken to study in Kyrgyzstan, where they mastered the skills of organizing meetings, countering police officers, working with political information, etc. The ideological essence of classes was expressed in the idiom "Kazakhstan - for the Kazakhs."
It turned out to be simple to calculate the main customer of the “courses of the young fighter” - the video portal “STAN”, which belongs to the fugitive oligarch Mukhtar Ablyazov, took over the sponsorship of the training.
- The possible organization of unrest on ethnic grounds is an encroachment on the independence of our country. We urge Kazakhstanis not to succumb to provocations. In Kazakhstan, we will not allow this, ”Kenesary Kaptagaev, co-chair of the Zheltoksan Koterlisi NGO, noted at a press conference.
Recently there was information that Belov’s comrades-in-arms, Peter Miloserdov, a member of the Russian national liberation movement “People”, and Eduard Limonov, press secretary of the National Bolshevik Party, Alexander Averin, visited Almaty.
Speakers at a press conference yesterday expressed concern that these people are directly involved in a project developed by Belov-Potkin with the working title “Angry Kazakh”.
Its essence boils down to discrediting the legitimate authority, depriving it of support by the titular nation and, as a result, to its delegitimization. However, Kazakhstani Russian and Slavic organizations came out with a sharp condemnation of Belov’s actions and in support of interethnic accord in the country.
“It must be understood that Belov is just a tool in the hands of Ablyazov.” His plans, which have become public, perfectly describe his criminal plans, ”summed Dauren Babamuratov.

[ddmm09]

Everyone ... In vain do you make swearing Kazakh-Russian - bad-good, which once I meet it on the forum. We are united by common values ​​- love for the Motherland, humanity, a benevolent attitude towards compatriots and neighbors, kind-heartedness, etc. This is how we differ from the people of the Western world, selfish in essence. The weak-willed of us accept their values, destroying our common culture. We always carried the creation to the world, thanks to this we can resist the enemy being in the minority. By internal quarrels we only weaken ourselves.
Before and now Russia has tried to protect its citizens, it makes no sense to accuse our state of its right to do this, even if it comes to the use of force. In Central Asia, Russia never acted on the American principle - the destruction of the indigenous population. No one will be able to accuse Russia that some people have disappeared from the face of the Earth or at least its number has decreased. Most of our opponents begin to talk about Russia's actions from the perspective of someone’s genocide. This has never happened in our history. Russians, as a people, never put themselves above other nations, just like Russia, as a state, never set itself the goal of enslaving anyone. And the Kazakhs in tsarist Russia and the USSR were not in the position, for example, of the US Indians or the natives of Australia, South Africa, etc. (you can list for a long time). We went to the same kindergarten, studied at the same school, one institute. Household grievances do not need to be transferred to the whole people - this is stupidity, this is egoism.

[FunkschNNX]

Quote: ddmm09

In Central Asia, Russia never acted on the American principle - the destruction of the indigenous population.

It's not the same for everybody. In modern textbooks on the history of Kazakhstan and even on the website of the President of the Republic of Kazakhstan, they clearly explain that Russia staged the genocide of the Kazakh people. It is true that they forget that the Slavs then died many times more, and Kazakhs themselves introduced the surplus appraisal system. But who cares now, now we're all sovereign and proud.

[Marek Rozny]

From 1920 to 1932, Kazakhs lost more than half of their numbers. In percentage terms, Kazakhs suffered the most in the USSR. When a large part of the nation was destroyed in a decade, is this not genocide? Look even at the Soviet data on the number of Kazakhs in the first decades of Soviet power, I no longer offer to read information about the Kazakh losses of Kazakh and foreign authors. Otherwise, blame that the Kazakhs falsified everything :) A lot of Soviet materials are on this topic.
Only Ukrainians constantly reiterate the guilt of today's Russia about the famine, and the Kazakhs are trying once again not to remind them of the tragedy.

[FunkschNNX]

Here fascists staged genocide against Jews. And the famine in the country has slanted everyone, not just the Kazakhs.
And there’s no need to tell what is there in Kakhakhstan and how, I lived in Alma-Ata for 30 years, including the dashing 90s. And I heard the suitcase-station-Russia, not for me personally, but mainly for women. What is the loudest than all the oralmans and Mulbichi aul who screamed loudly in Almaty themselves turned out to be obscure ways.
С развалом союза Казахстан пережил серьезный упадок в обществе. Многие лучшие нац.кадры предпочли перебраться в Москву да Лондон. У меня было много преподавателей с димломами МГУ и др. ведущих вузов, интелигентнийшие и умнейшие люди, но к сожалению в представлениях гостей мой любимый город Алма-Ата ассоциируется именно с маргиналами с "Зеленого", "Тастака" и т.п.

[Marek Rozny]

1) Сколько процентов русских погибло от голода? И сколько процентов казахов погибло от него же? Разница колоссальная. Почти как: один говорит: "У меня дом сгорел", а второй его утешает: "Блин, у меня тоже горе - телевизор сломался"...
2) Действительно... Как это казахи аульные и потомки сбежавших от голода казахов в другие страны посмели в столицу Казахстана приехать? Пусть сидят в своем задрючинске. Такая у Вас логика? Мои родители тоже из аулов. Мать закончила в Ленинграде ветеринарный институт, отец - Ленинградское военное училище. Я родился в военном городке в поселке Оренбургской области... Ничего, что я и мои родители - мамбичи аульные, непонятно как оказавшиеся в "большом городе"? И кстати, формально, я тоже считаюсь оралманом, т.к. переехал из России в КЗ.
Фраз "чемодан-вокзал-Россия" я ни разу в КЗ не слышал. Как и все мои знакомые славяне в КЗ. Обычно о таких вещах говорят, ссылаясь на двоюродного брата соседа жены коллеги по работе. Мол, кто-то где-то слышал такое. Хотя вполне допускаю, что некоторым личностям могли такое сказать, если они заслужили своим поведением. Как некоторые русские не стеснялись выражений в адрес казахов, думаю знаете. И мамбичи мы, и калбиты, и урюки, и "индейцы", и мавры, и просто "неблагодарные". Давайте не будем строить из себя наивных школьниц и признаем, что во времена распада русское большинство Казахстана связывало крах экономики с тем, что теперь казахи стали править страной. Со всеми вытекающими. Газеты наши алматинские тех лет помните? Я даже когда-то вырезки из них делал. Один гиллеровский "Караван" чего стоил. Пока ему пинка под зад не дали, травил национализмом во всю ивановскую. Хорошо, что люд в целом у нас здравомыслящий, и как только горлопаны подобру-поздорову убрались из страны, мгновенно напряжение в обществе спало. Ну, а своих казахских горлопанов казахи еще раньше вывели из общества, кое-кто до сих пор за решеткой находится, считая себя "политическим узником".
Я еще умудрился несколько лет проработать в организации казахстанских немцев, в которой каждую неделю уезжающие отмечали проводы. Я там единственный казах был, типа "свой". Чего только не услышал. Самое мягкое "вот уедем - и загнутся казахи в своей сра_ой стране". И Вы меня очень удивите, если скажете, что не слышали ни разу таких фраз среди Ваших друзей. Даже если они "интеллигентнейшие и умнейшие люди".
Уехали и уехали. С глаз долой, из сердца вон, как говорит русская поговорка. У меня слово "нацики" ассоциируется с этими "вынужденными переселенцами", а вот понятие "русский народ" ассоциируется с русскими людьми, с которыми я общаюсь ежедневно в Казахстане. И я рад, что все русские в моем личном окружении умеют сохранять свою национальную гордость и при этом относиться с уважением к казахской или иной другой культуре. Ну, а для кого казахи - "толпа мамбичей аульных", того я за русского даже не считаю. Это все равно что если бы я заявил: "русские - толпа неумытой деревенщины, понаехавшая в города". Неприятна такая аналогия? И мне неприятно писать такую чушь в адрес русских.
Тем более, что можно подумать после развала СССР Россия пережила подъем культуры и экономики, а Москва так и не столкнулась с понятием "утечка мозгов". Если "многие умнейшие люди" уехали из Казахстана, то из России за эти годы кто уехал? Русских-то кто из России миллионами за 20 лет выгнал? Опять казахские мамбеты?
Я часто соглашаюсь, читая Ваши посты. Вы человек очень даже трезвомыслящий. Но тем не менее, некоторые из них весьма оскорбительны. Напоминает, как алматинский "старшак" снисходительно трепет по щеке щегла, считая себя уже "прохававшим эту жизнь". Думаю, родная алматинская дворовская терминология будет доходчивей.
Z.Y. Greetings from Koktem and Kizov! ;)

[Marek Rozny]

Есть любопытнейшая книга "Туркестан под властью Советов", автор Мустафа Шокай. Его книга основывается исключительно на газетной периодике Советского Туркестана 20-30 годов. Книга помогает снять розовые очки в этом вопросе.
And in 70-80, of course, everything was different. Indeed, they went to kindergartens and schools in Kazakhstan. The truth is exclusively Russian. Paradoxically, there were practically no Kazakh schools in the Kazakh SSR. In the entire one and a half million Alma-Ata, there was one single school with the Kazakh language of instruction. So there were excesses in the national policy. And sometimes very serious.
Ну, а то, что русская царская политика была колониальной - так достаточно просто пролистать подшивки русских дореволюционных газет в библиотеке. Слова "колония", "туземцы", "наша колониальная власть" присутствуют в каждой русской заметке касательно Туркестана. В 1897году по переписи населения Российской Империи казахов насчитывалось 4 million people, 30 years later in 1926 - 3,9 млн man, in 1936 - 3,1 million people (at the same time, all historians, even of the Soviet period, unequivocally consider the last figure to be greatly overstated, since the losses of the Kazakhs were really stunning). Only in the mid-70s of the 20th century, the Kazakhs were able to restore their numbers to the level of 1926. And this despite the fact that Kazakhs are usually large families.
Yes, we were not Indians, but we suffered unimaginable losses during the first decades of Soviet power that no other people of the USSR experienced - neither Russians, nor Uzbeks, nor Belarusians. So, at best, the Kazakh will perceive any phrases that the Kazakhs allegedly have no right to complain about the Soviet regime with a bad grin. For Kazakhs, the events of five hundred years ago are fresh as yesterday, and the disaster of the 20-30s is still remembered by the elders. And the Kazakhs do not perceive the whole period of Soviet power as the oily-stagnant Brezhnev years, but they also remember how it all began.
At the same time, Kazakhs do not put forward any demands for repentance, like Ukrainians, Georgians or Balts, do not spit on the past, and the establishment even organizes gala evenings and concerts on the anniversary of the Komsomol.
Только просто русским не надо рассказывать казахам о "прекрасном" отношении советской или русской власти к казахам. Ни один казах не задевает эту щепетильную тему, пока не услышит всякую фигню о всяких "ништяках", дарованных казахам царской или советской властью. Не хотите слышать обвинения в геноциде? Не начинайте разговор о "русских пряниках". У казахов практически все - потомки репрессированных или пострадавших от голодоморов. Мы же по советской классификации были поголовно в баи записаны оттого, что даже у бедняка было много скота, что было очень непривычно для русских большевиков, приезжавших из своих полуголодных деревень делать "Малый Октябрь" в нашу степь.

[Serge]

It’s a pity of course that it was hushed up at one time, an interesting article, it is necessary to inflame the gaps in the history of the Cossacks

[radio operator]

Good article!
Another ideologically forgotten victory of the Russian Army.

[enot555]

the whole trouble is that the bulk of the Cossacks were exterminated or forced to go abroad. there were only a few left ... A small example in the N-Territory --- now all sorts of obscure people who just drink, engage in useless dances, stand guard parking lots and do other nonsense, suck money (by the way they get some amounts, I don’t know exactly what, but judging by how many people are torn to the posts of attamans, apparently not small) And no one thinks about educating young people, about teaching them military art. Ask the gentlemen the Cossacks, what are you doing here and what are you for? Naturally, no intelligible answer. Many people do not even bother to read the story - where it is written that the Cossacks are primarily WARS !!! Cossacks have a lot of examples of feats, which if you list here, you can write for days and do not describe everything. Why are there only examples of the Caucasian war where battles with the enemy took place almost always exceeding the number of Cossacks, and the Cossacks fought them all !!!! and now some kind of miserable parody is happening, although things are better in the Krasnodar Territory, Tkachev is doing the right thing.