Military Review

New technologies of Chinese espionage

In the past few months, China has demonstrated a large number of new defense developments. Most of the news related to combat aviation. Of course, you can be happy for the Chinese designers, but a number of things make it possible to doubt their talent and success. For example, the latest Shenyang J-15 carrier-based fighter is in fact a modernization of the Soviet T-10K, which later became the Su-33, and in the guise of a fifth-generation fighter J-31, moments clearly borrowed from American aircraft manufacturers can be clearly traced. Of course, any more or less noticeable similarity raises understandable suspicions that cast a shadow over the entire Chinese aircraft industry.


It is worth noting that in the case of the Su-33 and J-15 we are talking about copying the airframe, engines and “filling” the aircraft with our own equipment, possibly created on the basis of Soviet / Russian electronics. In other words, the excessive similarity of the aircraft is due to the fact that one of them was in fact the prototype of the other. In addition, the prototype of the Russian carrier-based fighter fell into the hands of the Chinese and they had the opportunity to study it carefully. If we consider the J-31 fighter, which simultaneously resembles the American F-35 and F-22, then there can be no question of studying an imported aircraft. However, the similarity is quite large and because of this, there are a variety of versions. Last winter, in some American media, there were unofficial reports that the delays in the implementation of the F-35 program were caused by some Chinese cyber attacks, during which some of the information on the latest aircraft fell into the hands of computer spies, and other data was damaged.


As a matter of fact, China’s accusations of carrying out certain attacks on American defense computer resources did not appear today or yesterday. According to American data, in the past two years alone, Chinese cyber spies managed to carry out several tens of thousands of attacks, during which they were able to gain access to the computing services of several dozen major American companies, including defense ones. Fortunately for the USA, all these attempts to introduce malicious software were either detected on time or the attacker did not take any serious destructive actions. In connection with these events, a special commission of the US Congress is currently engaged in a more detailed investigation of attacks in order to prevent fatal consequences.

Of particular concern to the Americans is the so-called "863 Program", whose goal is to ensure the complete technological independence of China. Quite a few Western experts do not exclude the possibility that cyber espionage can be among the tools for implementing this program. In the light of data on regular cyber attacks, such suspicions seem to be sufficiently substantiated. Beijing officials, in turn, disagree with the accusations and continue to insist on the purely scientific and technical nature of the “863 Program”. So, commenting on the recent American report on cyber attacks of recent years, Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei once again reminded that China is resolutely against any hacker methods, and also cooperates with the United States in the area of ​​eliminating this threat. In general, such comments can be considered a “standard” excuse. At the same time, China’s accusations of regular cyber attacks have long been a familiar and expected thing. So the report and the statements of representatives of the Foreign Ministry of China that followed it can be considered the usual “exchange of courtesies” that in no way reveal the situation.

As evidence of China’s use of hacking methods for extracting information, sometimes technical details of its latest developments are given. So, the newest fighter J-15 has a number of means of providing radar stealth, characteristic of the American aircraft industry. First of all, it is recognizable hull lines. It is possible that the Chinese designers themselves could have come to this kind of glider, but the specific forms of the nose of the aircraft too closely resemble the same parts of the American F-35. There are sufficient grounds for suspicion and recognition of such similarities as plagiarism or even the result of espionage. In addition, in the Western press, China’s successes in the manufacture of radio-absorbing materials, as well as developments in the direction of modern avionics, were repeatedly mentioned. It has to be admitted that there are no exact data with serious evidence regarding the theft of technology.

In the context of cyber espionage as the main way of developing its science and technology, the current state of affairs in the Chinese engine-building looks very interesting. China has already achieved some success in this direction, but so far it can not be called a world leader. For example, the widely advertised WS-10 turbojet engines, made on the basis of the Russian AL-31, have an incomparably small resource with a larger load. First of all, this suggests that the Chinese motor builders do not yet have the necessary technologies, with the help of which proper performance could be ensured. A simple question follows from this fact: why can't Chinese cyberspies get the necessary technological information? If you believe the American counterintelligence, the Chinese intelligence hackers have a very large potential and are quite capable of “taking away” not only the drawings of the finished aircraft, but also any technological documents relating to the production of certain parts. Perhaps they just can not do it or even do not deal with such issues.

The most realistic version of the Chinese success is the simultaneous use of their own developments and foreign experience - acquired in the course of joint work, purchased in the form of documentation or obtained through cyber espionage. In this case, most likely, depending on the industry, the share of their own and others' know-how varies. In certain areas, China has its own good work, while in others it has to deal with copying finished equipment. Anyway, all the talk and scandals around possible Chinese cyber espionage only confirm Beijing’s intentions to develop its industry, economy and defense, even if not entirely honest methods.

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  1. gregor6549
    gregor6549 12 December 2012 08: 35
    In my opinion, China did not even need to bother with espionage. They themselves dragged everything that dragged there. If only they paid money. And it's good if China limits itself to copying. And then in fact it can all this and wrap up against the previous owners of secrets. And wrap it up, don't go to the fortuneteller. So with the choice of "foreign" friends you need to be more careful. How many there were. Egypt alone cost a pretty penny. And where is this friend now, and with whom is Egypt now friends?
    Some of the clever ones correctly remarked "In the politics of any country there are no permanent friends, there are only permanent interests."
    That would be their watch, and not trade them left and right in the name of momentary political or business benefits. Moreover, the benefit from such trade is usually felt not by the country, but by its very individual representatives.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 12 December 2012 20: 26
      Some of the clever ones correctly remarked "In the politics of any country there are no permanent friends, there are only permanent interests."

      Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill
    2. I-16M
      I-16M 12 December 2012 22: 34
      Right! They themselves sold everything.
      It's easier to blame everything on enemy intelligence than treason to the motherland investigate
  2. Trailer
    Trailer 12 December 2012 09: 03
    The most realistic version of Chinese success is the simultaneous use of their own experience and foreign experience - acquired through joint work, bought in the form of documentation or obtained through cyber espionage.

    Remind me how the USSR created its atomic bomb? Information was also obtained by espionage from the United States. So what? Did this moment somehow lower the authority of the USSR? No, they began to fear him and respect him even more. Why is China worse? The same path of development, and I'm afraid the same results will be.
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 12 December 2012 11: 03
      yeah, but recall how the Americans got the atomic bomb ??? almost all the information came to them in place with German scientists. so it’s also worth a reservation here, but in general your idea is correct.
      it is true that when the USSR created the atomic bomb, he did not shout to the whole world that his bomb was better than the Amer bomb. blew themselves up slowly on the New Earth and did not touch anyone!
      1. datur
        datur 12 December 2012 13: 11
        silver_roman, Duc, after all, the most important Amer’s power is PR advertising !!! it doesn’t matter that this product is threshing, the main thing is to advertise it !!! here we need to learn from the adversary. not only in economics, but also in politics !!!
        1. silver_roman
          silver_roman 12 December 2012 14: 19
          I agree with you. then the export of arms will not be $ 12 billion, but like that of amers, under 60.
      2. vitya29111973
        vitya29111973 5 March 2013 20: 36
        do you know how to count to twelve?
  3. wave
    wave 12 December 2012 09: 12
    Instead of brains, the Chinese have rice porridge in their head. Therefore, they alone, without the help of other people's technology, they could not come up with anything. We ourselves are to blame for the fact that we gave so much technology to this rice valley, in which a lot of narrow-eyed monkeys live. Now do not complain, but watch how rice fields are built up by airfields, factories and enterprises for the production of defense plagiarism ..
    1. Middle-brother
      Middle-brother 12 December 2012 10: 58
      Quote: vague

      Instead of brains, the Chinese have rice porridge in their head.

      It's you for nothing ... Once they were underestimated.
  4. Zerstorer
    Zerstorer 12 December 2012 09: 53
    Of course, I understand that stealing someone else’s technology ... is not good. BUT! state interests above all. And if we steal the technologies we need, these will be the problems of those from whom we stole them. And if you look through this prism to the question of Chinese copying, then these are OUR problems that we allowed the copying of individual samples.
    And if you recall the history of aviation in the USSR, you can draw many parallel lines with modern China. Remember how they treated our planes ... Take, for example, the Yak-1/3. The general layout is taken from the MS-406. The M-105 engine is a slightly improved version of the Spanish-Suiz-12Y. Well, who will say that the Yak-1/3 is copied from the MS-406 ???
    What about the MiG-15 VK-1 engine? Isn't that a Rolls-Royce Ning ???
    What avionics do we install today? Although it goes under the brand name "Russian Avionics" there are not so many of ours, although there is.

    So there is nothing surprising in the behavior of China. And to say that they themselves can’t do anything - underestimate the potential of a serious competitor (and even this means to sign their own non-professionalism).
  5. gregor6549
    gregor6549 12 December 2012 10: 15
    About the Chinese and their brains. I live and work with the Chinese for 15 years. They are in Australia more than .... They have not yet noticed any signs of dementia. But an unprecedented zeal and ability to quickly learn and adapt to any environment I observe all the time. And it’s unlikely that they would be able to achieve the successes we have been seeing in China over the last 10 20 years with blunt brains. And not only in the field of armaments. For example, over the past ten years they have managed to create such a road network that more than one European country will envy, including Germany with its autobahns. And they managed to fill up the world market with their goods, and not only cheap, but also quite high-quality goods. And they managed to create the auto industry very quickly, and not only it. So underestimating the Chinese is much more dangerous than overestimating it. Moreover, they have no place to move acroma as towards Russia. And next to, and there is something to tidy up.
    So I won’t be surprised if they first put the States away from their shores, then take control of oil routes such as Hormuz’s, and then they’ll try Russia on the tooth.
    This tooth does not grow by leaps and bounds like appetites
    1. datur
      datur 12 December 2012 13: 17
      gregor6549, Well, the fact that the Chinese are not stupid, I agree with you! when our freaks, young reformers, led by ebn, ruined RUSSIA, the CHINA gradually did everything to raise their country !!!! but try on the tooth, let them try !!! maybe then we will reduce their number to a normal figure !!! belay feel laughing
      1. to water
        to water 12 December 2012 14: 27
        The Chinese should not be underestimated, and we will not be able to cover them with hats, because there are ten times more of them. While we position ourselves as a superpower, they are quietly engaged in business. "In 10 days in China they build the same number of roads as were built in Russia in the whole of 2008." I give a link to the material from what I saw and read is breathtaking.!
  6. afire
    afire 12 December 2012 10: 30
    hate china and chinese
    1. edge
      edge 12 December 2012 14: 48
      until the guys from the Badaber club see threats in the Chinas, they will develop, they will be allowed to grow for the time being, for the time being
  7. sashka
    sashka 12 December 2012 10: 56
    Everything is not so simple .. They pull and steal something that is "bad". Or counterintelligence is not up to the mark, because they "cut", "dispersed" or. "Personnel" are completely impoverished .. but I understand very well .. They also want to eat and drive a car and pay for the education of their children .. When VGK does not "know" what is going on under their noses, what results are "expected" ???
  8. Kavtorang
    Kavtorang 12 December 2012 11: 00
    Quote: afire
    hate china and chinese

    Why so? Psychological complexes or ... Do not neglect the state, which, at a minimum, has a nuclear triad in its entirety and active space exploration.
    Is it a shame that they are tyrat, creatively reworked and put into series? Well, excuse me: "We let them do it" (c.)
    Su-27 / Su-30, Project 956E / EM destroyers, Varshavyanka diesel-electric submarines, and a slap in the face - the Liaoning training aircraft carrier and its onboard J-15.
    1. sashka
      sashka 12 December 2012 11: 21
      Quote: Kavtorang
      Why so? Psychological complexes or ... Do not neglect the state, which, at a minimum, has a nuclear triad in its entirety and active space exploration.

      Who's stopping us from doing the same thing ... A flag in our hands and forward ... That's just the accountants and lawyers THIS will never do .. And the Chinese .. Well, they do what they can. If they so desire, they will do a lot more.
    2. datur
      datur 12 December 2012 13: 23
      Kavtorang, and a slap in the face - the training aircraft carrier Liaoning and its onboard J-15. - Well, here you are wrong - it’s our brothers Ukrainians who gave them such a gift !!! but otherwise I have to unfortunately agree with you! our proverb is right - what we have we do not keep, having lost - we cry !!! only no time to cry - no time !!! business must be done! I'm glad that we in RUSSIA have finally started doing business !!! so to speak, according to the proverb- RUSSIAN LONG CHARGES, BUT FAST GO !!!!! yes drinks laughing yes
  9. Kavtorang
    Kavtorang 12 December 2012 11: 38
    Quote: Sasha
    Well, they do what they can. If they so desire, they will do many more things.

    Yes, they will do much more. On the site, roughly speaking, a couple of times a week there are a couple of articles about Chinese developments / developments and what has already been adopted. And here we are somehow, show all the exhibitions. From the exhibition model to the production car - it is very far. And as a result, the PRC is selling its UTS / UBS K-8, and we Yak-130 are somehow not very good.
    1. datur
      datur 12 December 2012 13: 30
      Kavtorang, Yes, the Chinas are more than all the green pieces of paper, but it is known that - the loot defeats evil, and not only here, but also in the well-fed west !!! and even more so in the freest country of the world, America belay wink and the Chinese do not regret green papers !! believe me !!! belay they get in return many times more !!!! we need to learn from our quick-eyed comrades !!!! and then our deffective managers only for the purchase of 1500 jewelry at the state expense are strong and no more !!!! laughing here is the question there
      no less corrupt, or even more corrupt than ours, but they hack and loot and do business !!! and we have ?? maybe public execution certainly has some effect on the minds of embezzlers? Like - I take bribes, but I do my job well - in case of capture, I will be counted? laughing who thinks !! ???? yes
  10. toguns
    toguns 12 December 2012 11: 54
    feel what else can be said about the Chinese - they are stealing.
    and it’s significant and a lot. request
  11. Kavtorang
    Kavtorang 12 December 2012 12: 08
    Quote: toguns
    what else can be said about the Chinese - they are stealing.

    What more can be said? The bolt is laid down - with a left-hand thread and a small notch. But let's give it credit - there are practically no clean "copies", there are our own, very recognizable samples - modernization of the original .. Well, the classics: SU-27 and J-11B
  12. datur
    datur 12 December 2012 13: 45
    Kavtorang, 2 examples of Chinese products are true at the household level 1- Philips Music Center -m730-bought 8 years ago-the bastard works without problems !! only the remote control - but here it’s my own fault, sometimes the bastard falls (especially on holidays) !!! good 2 - a friend also bought a filipka, but already a telly -Farsh full -Led usb and so on !!! - -Dyk glitches after glitches- changed - the same picture- a thoughtful (probably about Buddhism) program sometimes changes itself (the Chinese have their own vision of the world) and then on the list !!!! laughing But remember how we had it, either it works and to hell with it what you do, or you get tired of repairing !!! wink
  13. Kavtorang
    Kavtorang 12 December 2012 14: 19
    Quote: datur
    examples of Chinese products at the household level1

    Yes, it is possible not at the household level. Well done, the Chinese, what can you say. And today, Motherland said about my need. The head of the organizational and planning department (combat and special training \ and) was not needed by the motherland. Apparently, there is nothing more to plan.
  14. zemlyak
    zemlyak 12 December 2012 16: 34
    Quote: Kavtorang
    And today, Motherland said about my need. The head of the organizational and planning department (combat and special training \ and) was not needed by the motherland. Apparently, there is nothing more to plan.
    Reduction or length of service?
  15. Wolkin
    Wolkin 12 December 2012 16: 55
    Money is expensive, human life is even more expensive, and time is most valuable.
    (Suvorov Alexander Vasilievich - Prince of Italy, Count of Rymnik and the Holy Roman Empire, Generalissimo of the Russian Army and Field Marshal of Austria, the greatest Russian commander (1730-1800)).

    And our leadership is busy with reforms and perestroika. And no one will wait for us,
    while we raise, build, rebuild, etc. ... ..

    These are the most important words in the article. Think about it! -
    One way or another, all the talk and scandals surrounding a possible Chinese cyber espionage only confirms Beijing’s intentions to develop its industry, economy and defense, even if not by completely honest methods.

    And further…

    Foreign media, especially Russian, believe that the J-15 is a copy of the Russian carrier-based Su-33 fighter. In this regard, November 29, spokesman for the Ministry of National Defense of China, Geng Yansheng, said: “Military affairs in the world have an objective development law. Many weapons have the same design principles, control and defense methods are also similar. Thus, to conclude that China copied the technology of aircraft carriers from other countries, only by simple comparison, is at least unprofessional.
    Firstly, the J-15 has more advanced avionics than the Su-33. The Su-33 is equipped with an outdated disconnected avionics system of the ARINC429 standard with a low-speed one-way data bus, while the J-15 is equipped with an integrated avionics system with a bi-directional data bus ..
    The on-board digital computer Ts-100 of the Su-33 fighter has a speed of only 170 thousand operations per second, while the J-15 computer has an estimated speed of calculation of several million operations per second.
    J-15 has a more advanced radar than the Su-33. Due to the outdated avionics system, the Su-33 can only act as an interceptor and is not able to use high-precision air-to-surface weapons.
    The J-15 introduced advanced materials and production methods, and therefore has greater strength and lower weight.
    Finally, the J-15 is powered by its own production of Taihang (WS-10) engines — more powerful than the Su-33 engines. Overall, the J-15 is superior to the Su-33 and is comparable to world-class deck aircraft such as the American F-18 and the French Rafale.

    This post was on PCAvia.

    The commander who wages war on the newspapers is a pity. There are other things that he needs to know.
    Suvorov Alexander Vasilyevich
  16. vagabo
    vagabo 12 December 2012 17: 12
    In fact, China is now a friendly country and a major international partner for us, including in the framework of the UN Security Council, BRICS, SCO, etc. Why are there so many phobias in relation to China ?! A country with a predictable foreign policy, with similar approaches to most international issues. You need to be friends with them! Mb then it will still be possible to straighten the brains of those whose hands itch to populate the Tomahawks right and left.
    Of course, one must be friends in keeping with one's interests, not create temptations to profit at our expense. But these are our problems, not Chinese! Invest in Siberia and the Far East, build up economic and military potential, stimulate the birth rate, and everything will be a bundle! And the Chinese will only respect us for this.
  17. vikruss
    vikruss 12 December 2012 18: 06
    The Chinese are generally smart people and are friends with their heads much more than we think. Such chaos and boundlessness as it was in Russia was not allowed, the movement retained its goal, communism was transformed and created a superpower from a backward country in the last 50 years. So guys, it’s not necessary. Let's be honest. And we'd better do ourselves the self-education and transformation of Russia and our future, for our children. And there is a lot to learn from them. And when the States "croak" at the nickname, they do not justify themselves as Russia did, until recently. They keep the bourgeoisie in complete ignorance and continue to "roll their wheels", which is why Russia needs to approach China very wisely. After all, it may happen that this country one fine, or rather not very, day may "ask" the whole of Siberia "back". If you look further than a "mutual agreement", a "strategic partner", then with a deeper, analytical and logical approach and reality, it will definitely emerge that in the future a military conflict with Russia is inevitable in China and it is very likely that it will be nuclear.
  18. Pancho
    Pancho 12 December 2012 20: 44
    Could our Chekists really be worthless to prevent Ukraine from selling the T-10K prototype to the Chinese in Ukraine? And I don’t understand how cyber attacks can get secrets from design bureaus, is it possible that computers in these institutions are connected to the Internet?
  19. arthur_hammer
    arthur_hammer 12 December 2012 23: 11
    We have enough traitors everywhere, ..... it’s necessary to shoot for treason, and they release us ahead of schedule am
  20. rlanry
    rlanry 14 December 2012 08: 56
    The Chinese are good copiers, performers, but no developers. School and traditions may work. 50 years later. And another 10-20 years will be beaten out in the forefront. And then, if the mentality is rebuilt.