Military Review

BMP-2M: three projects with one name

64
For over thirty years, the infantry fighting vehicle BMP-2 has been in the ranks of the domestic armed forces. If we take into account the fact that it is a slightly modified BMP-1, the age of this car is smoothly approaching fifty years. It is quite obvious that such old cars need to be replaced with new ones. In the late eighties, a completely new machine, the BMP-3, was created, but it did not go into as large-scale production as the “Unit” and “Two”. Because of this, the BMP-2, despite its solid age, is still the main vehicle of its class in the Russian armed forces, and will keep this “rank” over the coming years. However, as time goes by, the views on the fighting change, and after them the requirements for the new equipment are adjusted. Designed for large-scale combined-arms battles, the BMP-2 was not very adapted for conducting combat operations in urban conditions, etc. Thus, approximate requirements for its modernization, designed to increase combat potential, have long been formed.

According to the existing rules for the designation of weapons and military equipment, the seriously upgraded BMP-2 received an additional letter "M". Interestingly, under this designation, with a small time difference, three options for modernizing the combat vehicle were created: two are simply the BMP-2М and the BMP-2М Berehok. From each other, they differ, first of all, in armament and equipment.



Joint BMP-2M

In the late nineties, the Kurgan Special Design Bureau of Mechanical Engineering, together with the Tula Instrument Engineering Design Bureau, prepared a draft of the first modernization of the BMP-2 with the letter “M”. When creating this project, the aim was to increase the firepower of the “Two” to the level of the BMP-3. To achieve higher rates of armament, the easiest way was chosen. On the chassis of the BMP-2 installed combat module "Bakhcha-U", originally designed for the infantry fighting vehicle of the third model. This combat module is equipped with a 100-2 70-mm gun launcher with 34 shot ammunition, an 2 mm 72 30 automatic pistol (500 rounds) and a 7,62-mm PKT machine gun (2000 cartridges). In addition, the Bakhcha-U combat module can fire guided missiles of the 9М113 and 9М117 families by launching them through the 2-X70 gun barrel.

The new combat module was significantly larger and heavier than the original BMP-2 armament system. Because of this, firstly, we had to slightly re-arrange the internal volume of the vehicle and remove two seats for paratroopers, and secondly, the combat mass of the BMP-2M increased to fifteen tons. In addition, due to some additional minor improvements, the upgraded infantry fighting vehicle lost the ability to cross water obstacles by swimming. Also slightly reduced the maximum speed when driving on the highway and cross-country traffic.

Such a BMP-2M in a single copy was collected at the very end of the nineties and then passed the tests. According to reports, the military was not interested in such a modernization. First of all, they were not satisfied with the landing of only five people and the loss of buoyancy. Another indirect cause of failure can be considered the comparative high cost of the Bakhcha-U combat module and alteration of the original BMP-2 into the BMP-2М. There is information about the conversion of only one experimental machine. Further, the BMP-2М with the Tula combat module were not manufactured.

The upgraded infantry fighting vehicle BMP-2M with the Berezhok armament complex developed by the Instrument Engineering Design Bureau, Tula. Rostov-on-Don. 03.09.2012 (c) S.V. Gurov / rbase.new-factoria.ru


Tula "Berezhok"

The next improvement option for the “Two” was the project of the Tula Instrument Design Bureau, which received the same designation as the previous version with the “Bakhchoy-U” - BMP-2М. For convenience, the name “Berezhok” was added to the name of the updated combat vehicle. The basis of this modernization was the combat module B05Я01, developed on the basis of the native weapons complex BMP-2. As before, the “main caliber” is the 30-mm 2-42 automatic cannon with ammunition in 500 shells. 7,62-mm PKT machine gun (2000 ammunition) is paired with a gun. On the roof of the gun turret, on the mobile unit there is an AGNS-30M 30-mm automatic grenade launcher with band feed and ammunition in 300 shots. The barrel armament of the combat module B05Я01 makes it possible to effectively attack lightly armored vehicles and the enemy's manpower at a distance of up to one and a half to two kilometers.

To attack serious targets, for example tanks, at a greater distance, the B05Y01 module includes the equipment of the 9K135 Kornet anti-tank missile system. On the sides of the tower there are two launchers designed for two transport and launch containers of missiles each. Containers with missiles are covered from bullets and fragments by light armor screens. Depending on the specific modification of the missile, the B05Y01 module is capable of hitting targets at ranges of up to 5,5 kilometers (9M133-1), 7,5-8 km (9M133M-2) or 10 km (9M113FM-3). For detecting targets and guiding missiles, the B05Y01 module is equipped with the appropriate equipment: a two-channel gunner’s sight (with a television and thermal imaging channel), a laser rangefinder, an automatic target tracking and command generation equipment for the missile. The BMP-2M Berezhok anti-tank weapons ammunition consists of only four missiles. Due to the placement of anti-tank missile launchers, their reloading is done manually, outside the combat situation. Additional weapons "Berezhka" consists of two three-barrel smoke grenade launchers. According to the calculations of Tula designers, the firepower of the BMP-2M Berezhok increased 3,2 times compared to the original Two, and losses during a typical combat mission (attack on a strong point) due to the longer firing range can be reduced by two seconds half times.

When creating the Tula version of the modernization of the BMP-2, special attention was paid to increasing the firepower, for which the new combat module B05YA01 was created. The level of protection and driving performance remained the same. In addition, in contrast to the previous BMP-2M, “Berehok” retained the ability to swim across water bodies. The requirements of the military for buoyancy of the machine seriously affected the level of protection: all available weight and size reserves without damage to buoyancy were used to change the composition of weapons. The design of the armored hull has not undergone any changes, in addition, no additional mounted protective modules were provided. All this makes the BMP-2M "Berezhok" an interesting machine, but leaves some grounds for criticism. Due to the lack of advantages over the existing infantry fighting vehicles in the level of protection "Berehok" has not very high commercial prospects. It is worth noting that at the beginning of the autumn there were reports of the Berezhka procurement by the Russian Ministry of the Interior. In addition, as early as in 2005, a contract was signed with Algeria, according to which the three hundred BMP-2 BMPs in its possession will be converted into BMP-2М.

BMP-2M: three projects with one name


Kurgan option

A little later, the BMP-2M from Tula by Kurgan specialists proposed another version of the modernization of the “Two” with the same name. At this time, at the cost of buoyancy, it was proposed to seriously increase the level of protection of the armored hull. After several options, on which different ways of reducing the likelihood of injury were tested, the BMP-2M was manufactured with a number of significant innovations.

Enhance firepower was achieved by installing on the tower dual launcher anti-tank complex "Attack". According to its characteristics, this ATGM is close to Cornet, but it has a number of differences. For example, the targeting of the Attack missiles is carried out via a radio command line, and not with a laser beam. The installation of the Attack complex entailed corresponding changes in the electronic equipment of the infantry fighting vehicle. Gun-gun armament of the Kurgan version of the BMP-2M is no different from the complex weaponsapplied to the original "Two". These are all the same 2А42 gun and PKT machine gun.

In the course of work to increase the level of protection, the Kurgan version of the BMP-2M has undergone several changes. The first option of additional protection included armored panels that could withstand the hit of 12,7 caliber millimeters from all angles, as well as anti-cumulative grilles. In addition, part of the hull was closed by dynamic protection units developed at the Steel Research Institute. For a number of reasons, primarily due to the risk of damaging the body of the machine when dynamic protection is triggered, this option of an additional set of measures was not offered to the customer and as a result became the basis for a new development. The second option meant the addition of additional armor plates and gratings, as well as a new dynamic protection system. The updated development of the Scientific Research Institute of Steel did not hit the BMP case so much, however, in this case the system of additional protection did not go into the series. The current third variant of additional modules is to some extent similar to the previous ones - panels, grilles and dynamic protection “boxes”. However, during the development of the third protection option, a number of technological measures were taken, which at the cost of losing buoyancy made it possible to achieve acceptable levels of protection. According to reports, the Kurgan version of the BMP-2M from all angles can withstand large-caliber bullets.




***

All three variants of the BMP-2M, despite the same name, have different characteristics regarding firepower and the level of protection. At the same time, the features of all three modernization projects of the “Deuce” clearly demonstrate the problems typical for this class of equipment. First of all, it is the difficulty or even the impossibility of combining in a single combat vehicle a high combat potential, counter-and anti-cumulative protection, buoyancy, as well as the ability to transport a large number of troops. It is because of this problem that the joint Tula-Kurgan BMP-2M carries a solid armament complex with good ammunition, but does not float, is protected only from small arms and carries only five fighters; and the Kurgan modernization option is well protected, but has not received serious innovations in the composition of weapons.

Prerequisites for the existing problems of all three variants of the BMP-2M appeared even at the stage of the formation of requirements for the very first domestic infantry fighting vehicle. As a result, the improvement of one parameter leads to the deterioration of another or even others. It is quite obvious that without rejecting this or that requirement, for example, buoyancy, the BMP-2 simply cannot improve several of its characteristics at once. However, in this case, the installation of more advanced and / or heavy weapons may entail the replacement of the engine and transmission, as well as other components and assemblies. It is unlikely that such a modernization will be profitable for the re-equipment of all army combat vehicles. Therefore, at present it is important to pay special attention to the requirements for a promising infantry fighting vehicle based on the Kurganets armored platform, to evaluate all the opportunities and risks and, if necessary, to abandon this or that requirement, or make it softer. Only with such an approach in the future will it be possible to avoid current problems with the modernization of a promising combat vehicle.


On the materials of the sites:
http://skbm.ru/
http://kbptula.ru/
http://army-guide.com/
http://otvaga2004.ru/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/
http://arms-expo.ru/
http://bratishka.ru/
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64 comments
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  1. Baron Wrangell
    Baron Wrangell 11 December 2012 08: 47
    +1
    mass grave of infantry, it is such! The main purpose of the BMP is to protect the soldier, but there is none! All modern armies change light armored vehicles to heavy, protected ones! and here the old model with new bells and whistles, to me as an infantryman, doesn’t matter how many bells and whistles are there, the main thing is that she takes me where I should and protect me!
    1. Mikhado
      Mikhado 11 December 2012 09: 01
      +2
      Connect, Baron, to the discussion, yesterday the whole day the spears were broken
      http://topwar.ru/21843-pochemu-soldaty-ne-doveryayut-otechestvennym-btr-chast-2.
      html
      Well, maybe right now lovers of Namers will run over, throw up lol ...
    2. Leisure
      Leisure 11 December 2012 09: 58
      +11
      Are you gathered on the BMP in the thick of the battle?
      1. vagabo
        vagabo 11 December 2012 17: 43
        +4
        Only for some reason they are always in this very thick of the battle and find themselves. request
        In my relatively unenlightened view, we need two different cars on the same platform. The light version should have buoyancy, which in our open spaces can often be important. The heavy version is the same light one, but with the possibility of quick installation in the field of standard armor sets, the maximum allowable for the characteristics of the chassis.
        Personally, I like the BMPT weapons unit.
      2. orfo
        orfo 11 December 2012 23: 21
        0
        you still have to get to the battle
    3. Mr. Truth
      Mr. Truth 11 December 2012 12: 10
      +7
      Quote: Baron Wrangel
      All modern armies change light armored vehicles to heavy, protected ones!

      Nobody changes, on the contrary, your "modern armies" en masse put soldiers on trucks with mine protection, leaving heavy equipment in miserable proportions. This is reality.
      1. Town Guard
        Town Guard 12 December 2012 21: 40
        +2
        Quote: Mr. Truth
        No one changes

        I will support you in your objection. But as for nobody, it’s hard to say, but the fact that I forgot about light infantry fighting vehicles is an objection.
        Quote: Baron Wrangel
        All modern armies change light armored vehicles to heavy, protected

        http://www.army-guide.com/rus/article/article_2204.html
        It says about developing a new bmp - despite the fact that it will initially be easier than Bradley!
        "Pre-sounding at the recent defense exhibition in Malaysia was done to confirm that the company is on the right track," he said.

        BAE believes there is a large gap for light tracked vehicles between the good protection they offer and lack of mobility in areas where road and bridge infrastructure is not designed for 36-40 tonne platforms such as BAE's CV90 Scout and General Dynamics UK's Scout. . "
        I read this news about the development of BMPs by the British for the country of Southeast Asia. Heavy vehicles will be very expensive. Although some of them will probably go over to them.
    4. ZKBM-BUT
      ZKBM-BUT 12 December 2012 16: 00
      +4
      as a gunner bmp-1 bmp-2 dare to disagree. First of all, the survivability of the machine depends on how quickly the gunner identifies the target, issues an order to drop the infantry, and then hits the target. in this, all sorts of bells and whistles can help him. and the armor is already secondary. Potam as it always will be insufficient. let's say no armor will save you from a landmine, laying a landmine will take care of this and protect how many kg you need to spend. and even if the tanks are set on fire, how many armor need to be delivered safely? in general, it’s naive to expect safety from technology in war. except cold-blooded reason and the will of chance, nothing will save and protect you.
  2. Samovar
    Samovar 11 December 2012 08: 52
    +5
    Given that Kurganets will not appear in the army soon, the modernization of existing infantry fighting vehicles is a well-grounded step. The Kurgan option looks somehow more advantageous (due to the increased protection).
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 11 December 2012 12: 08
      +1
      I agree. and, it seems to me, the loss of buoyancy is not such a terrible thing. all the same, in the coming decades, the collisions of our army are unlikely to take place during a raid or assault on a particular country. so much more important is armor protection.
      There is logic in modern or promising infantry fighting vehicles weighing 60-80 tons. too high is the price of losing an infantry fighting vehicle in battle conditions when the vehicle is clogged with troops.
      1. Samovar
        Samovar 11 December 2012 15: 12
        +3
        Quote: silver_roman
        there is logic in modern or promising infantry fighting vehicles weighing 60-80 tons

        In my opinion, there is no logic in such prodigies. In any armored vehicles, weapons, maneuverability and security must be balanced. If you go too far with one of them, then the other two will certainly suffer. If you constantly just do what to increase security, you can come to a logical historical finale (a booked but not moving knight). Simply put, everything should be in moderation.
        Quote: silver_roman
        battle conditions, when the car is clogged with troops.

        Well, usually in combat, the landing is outside.
  3. Mikhado
    Mikhado 11 December 2012 08: 55
    +7
    It’s a pity that such a dead end. Too specific platform for a narrow range of tasks, limit parameters - this is not an owl climbing the globe. And about mine protection in general - is silent.
    My opinion is, IF you spend money on modernization, then just add modern electronics, maybe a little more powerful engine, a lining on the sides and floor of Kevlar mats, mine seats, improved fire fighting- and do not stick cars in the heat, just MORE passable than the wheeled version, the BTR.
    Or to make auxiliary unarmed machines - something like that.
  4. cdrt
    cdrt 11 December 2012 09: 59
    +6
    Indeed, it must be admitted that however much the BMP-2 would be liked (a beautiful machine), it’s a tricky expensive armored personnel carrier, it can only accompany tanks in a single formation under conditions of massive nuclear weapons use (for which it was actually conceived).
    In other cases, they will still ride on it, and not on it.
    At the same time, waiting for Kurganets-25 is not an option, because they will be quite expensive and, as a result, will be purchased to provide the necessary number, 1-2 decades. Accordingly, BMP-1/2 will be used for a long time (as long as the resource allows).
    In my opinion, the best modernization would be a combination of Kurgan updated protection (it is probably better to use NERA instead of the usual dynamic protection) + padding + there may be bottom pads (to increase protection against mines) - due to the modularity of protection you need to provide 2 options (floating for reconnaissance .units (or for 1 small and medium combat unit in the brigade) and non-floating for the bulk of the infantry) + a berezhka-type module (i.e. an old tower with 2A42 + TPV-TV gunner’s channel (no matter how sad, but without normal TPV, the combat value of vehicles decreases sharply) with a challenge for the commander + AGS / Kord with the possibility of removal from the car + new ATGMs only with the possibility of removing the ATGM and use without it. And of course, the most modern means of communication, ASUV TK terminals (which is / will be) are mandatory.
    It is possible to modify the same Arena into a modular quickly installed version and purchase 1-3 brigade sets + in each brigade no more than 1 company for training in the combat use of vehicles with KAZ. Installation - only in conditions of increasing tension on the machine connections, which will potentially participate in the database.
    Additionally - to develop fairly simple use cases (understandably overhaul) of the available BMP-1 stocks - more PRP, BRM, KShM, BTR (by removing the tower and placing the module with KKP / AGS, the number of troops can be sharply increased (applicable for sapper, for example) units, OP platoons, etc., it is possible to develop the simplest self-propelled mortars on its base (see, for example, Iranian versions of the SM on the basis of BMP-2. Given the available reserves, BMP-1 requiring major repairs, it is quite possible to provide a fairly large number units of equipment on the same basis.
    1. mkpda
      mkpda 19 December 2012 11: 13
      0
      Nuclear weapons are by no means necessary, quite competent and massive fire impact on the enemy (artillery, aviation). Another thing is that these funds are often not available in police operations, which leads to the demand for heavy infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers.
  5. BARKAS
    BARKAS 11 December 2012 10: 03
    0
    The most urgent thing now is to modernize the BMP precisely in the field of protection and I just consider putting on a new weapon system on the BMP-2 armor complete nonsense.
  6. Footmansur86
    Footmansur86 11 December 2012 10: 11
    +1
    BMP-1,2 have already worked out their moral and technical resource, there is no point in modernizing them, since the fleet is huge and huge modernization will be required, which is better spent on the development and purchase of new types of equipment.
  7. Avenich
    Avenich 11 December 2012 10: 21
    +13
    BMP haunts. Mikhado is right on the next branch all the spears broke off, "but things are still there." But as far as I understand, the one who sees himself in the role of the infantry requires impenetrable armor to the detriment of everything else, who of a higher rank requires speed, maneuverability, maneuverability, firepower. Personally, I served on the BMP-1 for a year, based on my experience: a reliable means of delivering infantry to the combat area, on the defensive, buried in the tower, a serious firing point. Cross-country ability and comfort for the landing force (quite seriously, I had the opportunity to drive along the same roads on wheeled vehicles and on BMPs), ease of control. It is not suitable for escorting convoys of "peaceful" cargo; it is not suitable for conducting "peacekeeping" (ie, patrolling streets, clearing settlements) operations. Weak mine protection (I send it to the commentator Mikhado), poor visibility of the driver (a panoramic triplex would be like on a tank), too much exhaust enters the landing party (it should change the shape of the injector a little), dangerous aft doors (it is necessary to change the locks and latches) ... The BMP-2 is essentially the same, only the gun is different, but the versatility is higher, it can also work against air targets, in conjunction with the ATGM "vosche rushing". And to escort the goods, a different, fundamentally different vehicle is needed; there is something for the designers of military equipment to work on.
    1. lab29
      lab29 11 December 2012 22: 06
      +1
      In principle, I agree in everything, myself for 2 years. As for visibility, 2 is like the T-80, if demanding commanders do not let them relax "on the march", then in a month you get used to the sky, earth, sky, earth and the picture in your head folds up. I consider floating to be an unnecessary twist, you can't overcome anything right away if the car on the off-road used bulwarks are demolished, the pumps are sold to summer residents))) the triplex is not replaced, the road is only to the bottom))) and the shore needs a prepared one, the narrow goose will immediately sit on its belly. you need armor and a stabilizer like on a tank, otherwise shooting only from the spot if you want to get to, the torsion bars are more powerful, they burst, although how to drive ...))) Hello Leningrad Infantry 93-95
      1. Avenich
        Avenich 12 December 2012 07: 07
        0
        The torsion bars broke, as without it, exactly after the crossing, it was blown away by the current, so we had to over the stones and through the steep. Nothing, three hours, and the car is back in action. By the way, about maintainability. BMP-1,2 replacing the engine with the help of one mother and a pair of hoists is half a shift, but what about the "Merkava"? Well, about swimming, you have to cook what to do. However, it is easier than directing the pontoon. And a suitable coast to look for is a matter of intelligence. In general, in discussions about military operations, little is said about intelligence, the interaction of various types of troops, Hollywood (forgive me, Lord) has already influenced our brains.
        1. lab29
          lab29 12 December 2012 12: 36
          0
          Yes. I also wanted to say about the engines, we had contractors from Afghanistan, they said that the engine was changed within two hours, it took us up to two days, though in peacetime. By the way, the main problem with locking the engine was the failure of the oil pump nozzle, the engine worked without oil for 10-15 minutes, then the knee was torn to pieces. I think that this is a bottleneck, a little refine at the factory and everything is fine. Also, the inability to pull out the transmission if the engine stalled on it, the situation is certainly for unprepared mech-water, but there can be anything in the heat of battle, but in general it’s nice to talk about it))) I remembered my youth))) Now at the training camp we’ve retrained the starting calculation number for S-300
  8. Rezun
    Rezun 11 December 2012 10: 35
    +1
    In my opinion, you need to take!
    Let the "green" learn on this "cabbage". And in 3-4 years they will be driven by "the very thing" !!!
  9. karimbaev
    karimbaev 11 December 2012 10: 41
    -4
    another coffin
  10. AK-47
    AK-47 11 December 2012 10: 48
    +1
    ... this is the difficulty or even the impossibility of combining high combat potential, anti-projectile and anti-cumulative defense, buoyancy, as well as the possibility of transporting a large number of troops in one combat vehicle.

    Is that a dead end?
    No, developers need to turn their brains on and without combining the incompatible to find the right solution. And military strategists to improve the interaction of the combat arms in relation to the combat mission. BMPshka cannot be both a tank and a boat and a truck at the same time and at the same time provide reliable protection for personnel.
  11. Akim
    Akim 11 December 2012 10: 54
    +4
    Syriytsi also modernize the Soviet BMP
    1. uhjpysq
      uhjpysq 11 December 2012 12: 00
      +1
      )))))) If you want to live, you still don’t get so hot))) by the way, the armor of the BMP is generally weak for ramming. during service in ptv all bmp changed. the front bottom sheet of 3 cars went with cracks. definitely change !!!!! with smoked where did the tanks divide, even remake them.
      1. Akim
        Akim 11 December 2012 12: 05
        +2
        Quote: uhjpysq
        if you want to live, you’re still not getting so hot)


      2. lelikas
        lelikas 11 December 2012 14: 00
        +12
        On the other hand -

        everything seemed to come, the pipes came, but it turned out -
        1. PLO
          PLO 11 December 2012 14: 52
          0
          MDE .. where the driver T-90 looked)
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 11 December 2012 15: 24
            +3
            Quote: olp
            MDE .. where the driver T-90 looked)

            It is worth noting that the tank, weighing more than 4 dozen tons, after hitting a BMP, did not crush it, but did not even bend the armored plates.
          2. Akim
            Akim 11 December 2012 15: 33
            0
            PLO,

            And who said that this is T - 90 :?
            1. vorobey
              vorobey 11 December 2012 16: 19
              +4
              Quote: Akim
              olp, And who said that it is T - 90 :?


              right, 72 is immediately visible. NSVT with handbrake and lumps are handed over immediately.
              1. PLO
                PLO 11 December 2012 16: 22
                +2
                I didn’t recognize the fault, I looked at the DZ and decided that the T-90, and this is apparently the T-72BA
                1. Samovar
                  Samovar 11 December 2012 19: 09
                  +1
                  Quote: olp
                  this is apparently the T-72BA

                  Most likely the B-cabinet is 89 years old. There is no wind sensor like on a BA.
              2. Lieutenant colonel
                Lieutenant colonel 12 December 2012 07: 09
                0
                And hodovka and MTO.
          3. Lieutenant colonel
            Lieutenant colonel 12 December 2012 07: 08
            0
            Normal military people say fur or mechannik - and this is 72 "from above".
            1. Akim
              Akim 12 December 2012 07: 53
              0
              Reserve lieutenant colonel,

              They were just used as BMP DSh units. I recently watched an American educational film of the mid-80s on YouTube (I don’t remember the link. I found it by accident). How afraid they were of just such a tactic! When several units of the Mi-24 "extinguish" airfields, headquarters and long-range air defense systems. and then the infantry parachuted from them suppresses everything else. The D-SH units in the USSR are not an Airborne Forces structure, but jumping infantry among motorized riflemen and marines. They are assigned targets within the corps mission and only perform tactical maneuvers. And the regiments of the Airborne Forces are an independent structure and they performed operational tasks. In Ukraine, DShBrigades are called airmobile, although they have heavy transport helicopters for equipment. And they were attributed to the structure of the Airborne Forces. In Ukraine, there is only one parachute brigade and three airborne brigades.
  12. itr
    itr 11 December 2012 11: 25
    +1
    I propose the option to transfer infantry from infantry fighting vehicles to helicopters
    Expensive, but I think everyone will be happy with those who are for speed and those who are for armor
    That's just the country's economy will sweat laughing
    1. Akim
      Akim 11 December 2012 11: 30
      +4
      Quote: itr
      That's just the country's economy will sweat

      And there will be a great demand for Stingers
      1. itr
        itr 11 December 2012 11: 40
        0
        Akim stinger is clearly more expensive than RPG and DShK
        1. Akim
          Akim 11 December 2012 11: 51
          +1
          But if, God forbid, the BMP perishes, this is 10 people. If the Mi-8 is 25! In addition, a downed helicopter is an irretrievable loss, which is 30 times more expensive than Stinger.
          1. itr
            itr 12 December 2012 05: 48
            0
            Akim. Well, why mi- 8
            why not on mi-24
  13. 8 company
    8 company 11 December 2012 12: 02
    +10
    I think that the BMP -2 is an excellent balanced car, it can be taken for the basic concept and improved. In Afghanistan, she showed herself perfectly. It’s a joke, at 4 km it can hammer, and shoot up even at large angles. The BMP-1 gun was slop, and the 2A42 was a beauty. I would add side screens and strengthen the bottom. But even without this, he personally saw how the BMP-2 caught the Fri. mine, which exploded under the left goose and the driver did not die, was only easily shell-shocked. Fast, maneuverable, necessary - and vertically climbs on low. good
    1. uhjpysq
      uhjpysq 11 December 2012 15: 08
      0
      but in Chechnya she didn’t show herself very well. why did you get that mine was Fri. I’ve seen how a mechanic, with a blast from a hatch, flew out without legs. and vertically does not always climb slippery stones.
      1. 8 company
        8 company 11 December 2012 15: 22
        +3
        Quote: uhjpysq
        the mechanic, when blown out of the hatch, flew out without legs


        Without legs - it is necessary to catch something abruptly than one Fri mines. My changer blew up in the Urals, under his wheel Fri - a mine exploded and nothing came off - a shell shock, a couple of fractures and a bunch of impressions.
        1. Pon69
          Pon69 11 December 2012 18: 05
          +1
          I saw a video for official use, back in Soviet times. They tested the Urals to undermine an anti-tank mine. I ran into a mine with the front left wheel, the Wheel was torn off cleanly, the cabin is more or less intact. So the Urals taxis !!!
          1. marshes
            marshes 11 December 2012 18: 11
            0
            Quote: Pon69

            I saw a video for official use, back in Soviet times. They tested the Urals to undermine an anti-tank mine. I ran into a mine with the front left wheel, the Wheel was torn off cleanly, the cabin is more or less intact. So the Urals taxis !!!

            And if a bookmark with a bag of ammonium nitrate and "silver"? Will the Urals steer the same?
            1. Pon69
              Pon69 11 December 2012 19: 59
              +1
              then even no ice rinks will remain from behi
              1. marshes
                marshes 11 December 2012 20: 22
                0
                But if it’s serious, the car is good, there’s not much to be upgraded elsewhere, to put thermal imagers and other crap out of it, so that I could smell for a mile or a half.
                While there is no heavy BMP, it’s the very thing, damn the skin saved during the squat. smile
          2. Akim
            Akim 11 December 2012 18: 13
            +3
            Quote: Pon69
            So the Urals taxis !!!

            They say after the Afghan military decided to completely abandon the cab engine - only the bonnet. They even wanted to do KAMAZ with their faces. Although it is URAL, but with a KAMAZ cab
            1. marshes
              marshes 11 December 2012 18: 21
              0
              Yes, at least do something, one figs will be undermined. As my friend said, everything explodes, only you can adjust the charge power.
        2. lab29
          lab29 11 December 2012 22: 11
          +1
          There is such garbage)), 6 meters flew on the door, the Urals are now their favorite car, it’s a pity they sold Kamaz for the army, the Urals saved lives !!!
          1. marshes
            marshes 11 December 2012 22: 27
            0
            Quote: lab29
            sorry Kamaz for army sold

            There was a "Loaf" then Delica, it's not pleasant when the wheel is under the heel, especially when the shock absorber is killed. smile
    2. arcturus
      arcturus 8 October 2014 23: 59
      0
      But even without this, I personally saw how the BMP-2 caught a Fri mine, ..................... this is a lie ... when it is blown up on the right caterpillar, the mv dies, under the left one all the more .... the senior shooter has cracked legs and the entire crew has spinal injuries .... this is so for general erudition ... but generally it’s not good to lie.
  14. sergey69
    sergey69 11 December 2012 12: 11
    +1
    My opinion is that all remaining in the ranks of the BMP 1,2 need to be upgraded to the third option. And let buoyancy remain in the BMP-3. Still, in the third version, the defense looks more solid, giving a chance to survive the crew, who were ambushed.
    1. Akim
      Akim 11 December 2012 12: 20
      0
      Screens can be replaced with passive (non-reactive) armor. .NERA is a promising area for the protection of light armored vehicles.
    2. PLO
      PLO 11 December 2012 15: 35
      -1
      they don’t need to be upgraded at all, it’s futile
  15. black_eagle
    black_eagle 11 December 2012 12: 34
    +2
    Here is the Ukrainian development of the BMP-1U "Shkval"
    The BMP-1U infantry fighting vehicle with the Shkval unified combat module, which was developed during the performance of the Blindazh development, surpasses the corresponding analogues (BMP-2, BMD-2) by 30% in terms of firepower and its main indicators. BMP-1 at 50%. The upgraded BMP-1U with the Shkval module entered service with Ukraine and was also delivered abroad
    1. Dikremnij
      Dikremnij 11 December 2012 14: 55
      +1
      If they were adopted, then a small batch (:, but basically all the cars went to Georgia.
      1. black_eagle
        black_eagle 11 December 2012 15: 11
        0
        Yes, they’ve accepted, I personally saw it, but most yes, they drove away for export, since who pays money to cars
    2. Akim
      Akim 11 December 2012 15: 19
      0
      All its advantages over the deuce are more advanced SLAs (also not automated) and AGS (AG) -17. But the module eats places on three foot soldiers.
      1. black_eagle
        black_eagle 11 December 2012 16: 49
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        But the module eats places on three foot soldiers

        And the infantry still prefers to sit on the armor in battle, but in general, newer modules, such as "Sail" and "Shturm", are already completely outside the box, although to be honest I do not understand such a machine as BMP-1-2 at all, nor no super-cross-country armor, no super weapons, what for is it needed ??? For what theater of military operations and what is its niche in modern combat ??? Keep in service because there is no other?
  16. arthur_hammer
    arthur_hammer 11 December 2012 13: 41
    +1
    all this could be done back in the 90s (((((( recourse
    1. Dikremnij
      Dikremnij 11 December 2012 14: 56
      0
      Not even possible, but it was necessary to do in the nineties.
      1. vorobey
        vorobey 11 December 2012 16: 22
        +2
        arthur_hammer,
        Dikremnij,

        In 90, we all had no time. we together reveled in democracy and shared the remnants of the union.

        BMP 3, which was supposed to replace them back in 1990 in distant Tashkent, was tested on the basis of TVTKU. If, as a rule, they tried to mow down technical servants, then they themselves were asked only to see and climb.
  17. kov
    kov 11 December 2012 14: 00
    +1
    about Berezhok
    1. PLO
      PLO 11 December 2012 14: 56
      +3
      eh .. military secret
      the most amateurish program of the kind
      he allows you to see the enemy in 360 degree radius

      military secrets as usual gives out pearls what fool negative

      don't look "this"
    2. Akim
      Akim 11 December 2012 15: 29
      +2
      BMP "Mongoose-2" for Malaysia

      1. iSpoiler
        iSpoiler 12 December 2012 11: 12
        -1
        Duc etzh MT-Lb .. !!!)))))
        2 years for such a trumpet, the current was altered greatly ..
        1. Akim
          Akim 12 December 2012 12: 11
          +1
          iSpoiler,
          Ott MTLB only the concept and form remained there. Everything inside is different. Transmission, engine, control. The tracks have lower ground pressure. The armor has the same composition as the BTR-4 holds 14,5 mm in the forehead and 12,7 in the side. Mine protection has been strengthened. The speed of movement on water has been improved, due to the new shape of the floats - up to 8 km / h. Well, the "SHKVAL" module. In any case, the BMP turned out better than the BMP-2, even better than the "Berezhka" (forgive me Prokopenko from Ren-TV). ... And what else floats like all MTLBs - that is, domestic samples so did not catch up with the PT-76 and BTR-50, so there is another plus to tropical Malaysia. On "Perspective 2012" showed next to the BMP-1U and BMP-3U
  18. david210512
    david210512 11 December 2012 14: 54
    +2
    we will wash the "berezhok" better they just need to be sewn up as on the BMP-2D
  19. BARKAS
    BARKAS 11 December 2012 15: 11
    0
    Oh, you should have seen the village of Kushchevskaya, which is famous not only for Tsapki but also for the repair armored factory, where workers opened the infantry fighting vehicles with mummified corpses of soldiers.
  20. marshes
    marshes 11 December 2012 15: 55
    +1
    BMP-2 is a good machine, that it was modernized well, although it showed the direction of modernization. smile
  21. The comment was deleted.
    1. PLO
      PLO 11 December 2012 16: 23
      +2
      there is no talk of modernization of the BMP-1/2 at all, they are only being modernized by explosives, and they are waiting for the Kurganets
      Well, little by little we bought BMP-3, as I don’t know now
      1. bask
        bask 11 December 2012 16: 36
        +2
        But how can BMP 1 be upgraded in general? 2. They were upgraded to V.S. back in the 80s. In connection with the creation of BMP-3. But BMP 1 can be modernized and their quantity must be taken into account. 1 Increased load capacity, with the change of MTO and transmission . (if you manage to increase the carrying capacity to 15 tons. 2. For all 15 tons of booking. 3 combat module uninhabited 23mm cannon and AGS ,, Flame ,,, the car will be super. Is it possible to increase the carrying capacity?
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 11 December 2012 16: 49
          +2
          bask,

          Basque bmp 1 is now only exported and then used after capital. And they are willing to pay and pay for them. Personally encountered this.
          And one more nuance to yesterday's topic. sure to swim so. With me, immediately from the workshop 4, the behi went to the waterfield in direct motion, and they made the swim to the site.
          1. bask
            bask 11 December 2012 17: 35
            +1
            Vorobey For, export to Indonesia or somewhere else, Berezhek, etc. Let them do it, live like that. I'm talking about modernization, such as the Afghan version, not floating. If you leave BMP 1, "2 leave floating. Then the whole the meaning of modernization will be propodet. There is also GSh GM 123, MT-S, GSh-352m. All with a carrying capacity of not less than 12 tons. Units and assemblies can also be used when upgrading the BMP 1 2. On the hull on the BMP, you can hang a stand-up DZ. SV-90 are resting. Double anti-mine bottom and so on .. And then not who will not talk that this is a tin can.
            1. vorobey
              vorobey 11 December 2012 17: 55
              +2
              Basque I do not mind, if there is a task then why not. Today, I myself, as a civilian man in the street, when I talk with guys from BTRZ ask similar questions, naturally sometimes they answer me that I want a lot of things, and they are limited in their actions.

              In addition, all deuces do not make sense to redraw. 382 OBMP all on deuces (all that remains of our division), and they must swim. At the Pacific Fleet, mine will also partially wash on marines.
              1. erix-xnumx
                erix-xnumx 12 December 2012 10: 08
                +2
                In the Pacific Fleet in the Marine Corps, BMPs were only in the 390th PMP of the 55th Marine Division, in which I began my service. First there were BMP-1, then in 94 we received BMP-2 from the 40th coastal defense division being disbanded. At one time in the regiment, the 9th company of the marines was equipped with BMP-3s, which were undergoing military tests with us. Then our division was hacked into a semi-unconscious 155 Marine Brigade, the 390th regiment became the 59th separate battalion of the Marine Corps on the BMP-2. "Troikas" after the first Chechen campaign were transferred to the formations of the ground forces and the DVOKU
            2. bask
              bask 11 December 2012 18: 06
              0
              It should be trimeric, like that.
            3. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 11 December 2012 18: 10
              +1
              While there are no new ones (Kurgan, etc.) instead of modernization, they would buy what was modified according to previous requirements.
              For example, BMP-3M.
              "..... The BMP-3M is an improved modification of the BMP-3. It surpasses the base version in mobility and firepower thanks to the installation of a new 32 horsepower UTD-660T turbocharged engine and an improved fire control system that allows target recognition and aimed fire at Long ranges and speeds of movement. Differs in increased security due to the installation of additional armor screens and the complex of active protection "Arena-E", which protects the machine from guided and unguided anti-tank missiles and grenades of the enemy. nine]...."

              By the way, the price of a new car when it is on the conveyor is not much higher (or even lower) than a good upgrade.
              1. bask
                bask 11 December 2012 20: 17
                +1
                Bad_gr I completely agree with you BMP-3M, until the age of 20, at least, there is no alternative, and will not be. Although after the Soviet Union there was a lot of GM left over. Which, after minor modernization, could be good BMPs. Including BMP-3. Modernization, now it , there is no alternative. Here is one of the options.
          2. bask
            bask 11 December 2012 18: 11
            0
            Carapace on tracked chassis
    2. vorobey
      vorobey 11 December 2012 16: 24
      +3
      Quote: rudolff
      Neither Armata nor Kurganets will appear in the troops in the near future.


      Where did you get such reliable information?
  22. The comment was deleted.
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 11 December 2012 17: 40
      +1
      Rudolph, I'm a little fake. I'm sorry. I just read another post in your topic yesterday.
      I wrote to the guys above about BMP 3. Aloud, the townsfolk heard about it in 20000 horseradish what year when it took place in the parade, but in fact it is a development of another 80 years. And at 93 when I came as a young flyer in 810 OBRMP 1, the entire reconnaissance company on BMP 3 was.

      And they would replace both twos and singles, but they all lose sight of the year 92 when nobody fucked needed to read this. But now when they have eaten and understood what the Western democracy smells have come to their senses.

      Sorry if offended.
  23. The comment was deleted.
    1. bask
      bask 11 December 2012 20: 20
      0
      Rudolph, and he could not sing a three-letter song ??????
  24. Garik1971
    Garik1971 11 December 2012 22: 06
    +2
    BMP-2 is an undeniably successful car! Oh, what a Mka would be! It is a pity that the crap did not allow a lot to improve And with this search for impenetrable BMPs, etc., etc. This does not happen. The Germans have already tried with them "Mouse" turned out. There is a weapon, and there is a SOLDIER. Well, the "armor" should be removed - after all, a bullet piercing it is terribly deformed, and kills guaranteed! If you want to remove the critics of the "armor" gospad - shoot sooo logical. If you don't want to ride in an infantry fighting vehicle, it's inappropriate. But only when they come to cut you, I ask you not to be surprised.
  25. Town Guard
    Town Guard 11 December 2012 23: 49
    +2
    Thank you very much to the author - I collected all 3 samples in 1 place. And it is not clear - all three samples with the letter M are generally a mess.
  26. Larus
    Larus 12 December 2012 05: 42
    +1
    Yes, it’s time to abandon the BMP as it was in the direction of a heavily-protected machine that will correspond to modern realities. But if the BMPT were redrawn (in the manner of the Jews) and the solder in addition to the landing compartment, it would be nice
  27. Tan4ik
    Tan4ik 12 December 2012 07: 43
    0
    Akim,
    That's right, this is the Urals with the index 43223. There were the same with the index 43224 and 43225. But production stopped, because. there was no money and Kamaz refused to supply stamped parts.
  28. Temnik
    Temnik 12 December 2012 13: 41
    +1
    Interestingly, but for what kind of war do they now want to do BMP / armored personnel carriers? If large-scale, that is, full-fledged, existing ones are quite suitable, since their role is to deliver the fighter to the front line and that's it! If for anti-terrorism, then hang up do not hang up the armor, all the same, they will just put more explosives on the road, and the RPG will still break through!
  29. uhjpysq
    uhjpysq 12 December 2012 18: 34
    -1
    You can drive to the front and on the bike. and the explosives still have to be dragged and buried. the refrigerator on the sidelines is somehow suspiciously looking)))))))))))) RPG will break through))) from what time?
  30. vikruss
    vikruss 12 December 2012 19: 00
    0
    ... Loss of buoyancy ... loss of buoyancy .... who on..ren needs this buoyancy, if this machine is useless to anyone at all. What is more important machine or this buoyancy? Make a car for sushi so that your people can be protected, and this is first, and if you need buoyancy, there are other types of machines for this, the VMP-3 parryman, put them in the right amount in the troops, so let them complement each other. Why here is incomprehensible ..
  31. Akim
    Akim 13 December 2012 10: 08
    0
    ekgeovnvglv
  32. Volos
    Volos 27 September 2018 06: 22
    0
    If we consider all the proposed BMP-2 modernization options, then I consider the third BMP-2M modernization option from the Kurganmashzavod the most acceptable for mass modernization, in which armor plates, DZ and anti-cumulative gratings are installed, and the BMP-2M withstands 12,7 mm caliber bullets from all angles .
    "Berezhok", despite its very powerful weapons, remained a "tin can" and a "mass grave of an infantryman".

    1. I believe that BMP-2M loss of buoyancy can be restored by installing between the BMP hull and the anti-cumulative gratings of the FLOAT blocks filled with non-combustible polystyrene.
    If this volume is not enough, then such only "quick-detachable" floats can be fixed on the outside of the anti-cumulative gratings. along the perimeter of the BMP-2M.
    After overcoming the water barrier, external FLOATS can be quickly dismantled and fixed between the BMP-2M tower and the anti-cumulative tower lattices, as well as from the outside of the lattices.
    In addition to restoring the BMP-2M buoyancy, the floats will work as additional protection against RPGs.

    2. As a fallback, to overcome water obstacles along the bottom, along with tanks, an air intake pipe 2-4 m high can be installed on the BMP-5M. The hull of the BMP is sealed, so problems should not arise. Now the industry produces dozens of types of reinforced "non-combustible" plastic pipes suitable for these purposes.
    In case of damage, the plastic is much easier to repair.