"Grandfathers" and "affinity groups"

124
"Grandfathers" and "affinity groups"On November 28, a military court sentenced three sailors of the military unit of the North fleet on charges of torture and beatings of recruits. “As the investigation found out, from February to April of this year, the defendants repeatedly beat soldiers of a later service life,” said Alexander Kuratov, an official representative of the Military Investigation Department for the Northern Fleet.

Almost at the same time, the military prosecutor's office began to verify information about new facts of non-statutory relations in the Northern Fleet, this time in the military unit in Severodvinsk. According to preliminary data, several dozen sailors - recruits were subjected to systematic harassment and beatings by the old servicemen. A video shot by a mobile phone camera with a record of the “educational process” of recruits was posted on the Internet. Note that this kind of videos appear on the network regularly. “Grandfathers” cannot but know that the video recording is direct evidence, but the desire to “become famous” outweighs even the fear of punishment.

It should be emphasized that the case described above is far from the most difficult. This year there were much more terrible state of emergency. We mention only some of them.

October 2 in the military unit on the island of Kunashir (southern Kuriles), a conscript soldier Denis Ichetkin committed suicide by throwing himself from the roof of a three-story hut. In the suicide note left by the soldier, the names of the old servicemen were listed, whom he called the perpetrators of his death.

21 August in the village Mulino Nizhny Novgorod region was prosecuted in connection with the violent death of a soldier. 19-year-old soldier Dmitry Bochkarev became a victim of non-statutory relations.

18 July in the territory of the military unit 28331 in Verkhnyaya Pyshma of the Sverdlovsk region was found hanging on his trouser belt 19-year private soldier Vladimir Slobodyannikov.

Needless to say, the problem of non-statutory relations, which has remained unresolved for the past five decades, inflicts on the prestige of the army and military service such damage that no enemy propaganda can cause.

Influenced by the horrific stories of torture and harassment in military units, as well as the numerous videos on the Internet with the “exploits” of “grandfathers” that are open to the Internet, young people consider themselves entitled to shy away from military service. The resonance case in the city of Tavda of the Sverdlovsk Region can be considered indicative in this sense. On July XNUM of this year, a certain twenty-year-old boy accused under the article 24 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation appeared before the court. For two years (from 328 to 2010 years), he declined to be drafted into the Armed Forces, and at the court he stated directly that he was ready to go to jail, but did not want to go to the army.

Perhaps for the first time in all its thousand years history The Russian state is experiencing such a catastrophic collapse of all those enduring values ​​that constitute the foundation of Russian civilization. First of all, this is an unprecedented loss of respect for military service. Once the famous phrase from the movie “Officers” “There is such a profession - to defend the Motherland” served as a benchmark for several generations of young people, and the guys went to the army with a sense of pride. Evasion from service was the rarest state of emergency, not so much because of the punishment according to the law, but because of the indelible disgrace with which the deviant covered himself. Today there has been an amazing substitution of values. “Cutting off” from the army by hook or by crook is today the norm of behavior, which will not surprise anyone. Moreover, such behavior is widely supported by society. What explains such a large-scale revolution in the minds of people?

Let us call things by their proper names: for a long time, a purposeful campaign has been under way in the Russian media to discredit the Russian army.

At the same time, the theme of “hazing” is not viewed as a problem to be solved, but as evidence of the complete disintegration of the Armed Forces. Of course, a huge share of responsibility for the current situation in the army lies with the government. Obviously, the problem of non-statutory relations in the army in recent years has been exaggerated in every way, chattered, but is not solved. Recent corruption scandals in the Ministry of Defense only added fuel to the fire. The result is predictable: from year to year public opinion is agitated by an emergency in military units, similar to the infamous “case of Andrey Sychev” or the “case of Yevgeny Koblov”. Even those mass media that are difficult to attribute to “foreign agents” go beyond the limits of common sense in a revealing rage. Probably affects the specificity of modern journalism. A typical example is the article of the columnist "Moskovsky Komsomolets" Yulia Kalinina "Now every guy is obliged to mow the army": "After what the army has done with the soldier Andrei Sychev, every citizen who has reached the age of eighteen has the full moral right to avoid service by all available means and methods.

It is obvious that this kind of rhetoric only annoys the military, erects a wall of alienation between the army and society and does not at all contribute to a real solution to the problem.

However, there are forces in our country that are waging a full-scale information war against the army and navy, extracting quite specific political dividends from their discredit. Each state of emergency in the army seeks to maximize the use of various “human rights” organizations and various “non-systemic” oppositions as an informational occasion.

So, starting from 2007 in Moscow on the eve of the autumn draft, the “Anti-invocation march” has been held. It is organized by the Yabloko Party, the NBP, the United Civil Front by Garry Kasparov and other “swamp” movements.

A couple of years ago, when activists were handing out informational bulletins about the next “Anti-Calling March” in the Moscow metro, the author decided to take one of these leaflets for review. The first page contained a list of requirements - to completely abandon conscription, cancel the Criminal Code article for evading military service, and "immediately stop mass abductions of people with the aim of recruiting them into the army by illegal methods." On other pages, texts of speeches by activists of the march were printed, among which the main thing was the appeal of a certain Valery Panyushkin to the current government with a demand not to introduce initial military training in schools. On the back of the leaflet was posted detailed, consisting of eleven points of instruction entitled "Actions with a raid with a drive in the military registration and enlistment office". We emphasize that on the Internet there is already enough advertised “legal advice” offering a full range of services for cash — exemption from conscription, exemption from liability for evasion, and so on. And all this brings tangible benefits: the interrelation of such information campaigns, “anti-draft marches”, the massive distribution of instructions on the topic “How to evade military service” with a long-term, still unresolved problem of incomplete military personnel does not cause doubt. Thus, it is, no less and no less, a direct undermining of our country's defense capability.

Unfortunately, over the past four years, the situation in the army could be characterized by the term "progressive deterioration." And not only in terms of the problem of non-statutory relations. The main internal enemy of the Russian army today is no longer "hazing", but an extremely dangerous increase in the level of ethnic tension and a sharp jump in the number of conflicts on ethnic grounds. This new threat was officially announced by the Chief Military Prosecutor Sergey Fridinsky. Recall that 25 March 2011 of the year at the Interfax news agency held a press conference of the head of the GWP, during which for the first time at such a high official level it was stated: ethnic gangs are criminalized in military units.

“Changing approaches to recruitment with the connivance of individual commanders leads to the fact that soldiers of different ethnic groups are trying to impose their own rules on military teams,” was the literal text of the Fridinsky statement.

He backed up his statement with concrete examples. So, on October 15, 2010 in the Perm Territory on aviation A base of 120 troops called up from the North Caucasus refused to obey command. The commander of the military unit, Colonel Dmitry Kuznetsov, was forced to seek help in restoring order to the Spiritual Administration of Muslims of Prikamye. According to the commander, the Caucasians, having formed “military micro-collectives” in part, began to engage in extortion and forced co-workers to carry out all kinds of work for them.

In parentheses, we add that this story was continued. The chairman of the Council of parents of military personnel of the Perm Territory, Alexander Vrakina, has denied information about the mass disobedience of Caucasians to the command of the unit. But it made a reservation that Caucasians really tried to impose their own rules: “Since, according to Caucasian customs, a man is considered humiliating to have a floor, Caucasians were forced to do this by colleagues, most often Russians.” Representatives of the Islamic clergy intervening in this matter described the situation as follows. Co-Chair of the Russian Muftis Council Nafigulla Ashirov in an interview with Russian Service News"Stated:" I believe that this situation is greatly swollen and does not have the consequences that are being talked about today. This is again the water to the mill of chauvinists, who today blame primarily the Caucasians and Muslims in general for all the problems of Russia. ” Ashirov further explained that the aggression of Muslims is a response to their humiliation from other nations. “When they try to humiliate a Muslim, he should not allow himself to be humiliated,” the Mufti summed up his interview with such a compelling argument.

We emphasize that the above statement by Sergey Fridinsky about the threatening increase in crimes in the army committed by ethnic gangs, was the first and the last.

A terrible roar followed from above - and from now on the chief military prosecutor could talk about anything - corruption, hazing, drunken debuts of contract servicemen - but not to deal with the problem of ethnic crime. Against the backdrop of “shooting weddings” and the release of Mirzaev, this is not surprising. Everything is clear without words.

However, it cannot be excluded that in a short time the problem of non-statutory relations and ethnic gangs in the army will come out, so to speak, “to a new level”. The fact is that on November 22, Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Defense Vladimir Komoyedov made a proposal to extend the conscription service to one and a half years. The meaning of this proposal is clear: in this way it is possible, firstly, to reduce the level of incomplete troops, and secondly, one year of service with modern technical equipment of the army, and especially the fleet, is completely insufficient for training military personnel in the basics of military specialties. But this decision also has a downside: a number of experts express fears that the implementation of Komoyedov’s proposals will cause a new surge of bullying in the army, drawing direct parallels with a similar decision of the USSR leadership in 1967.

It is necessary to mention another significant point: the heads of the North Caucasian republics constantly talk about the "discrimination" of their peoples in the implementation of the conscription. As is known, the former leadership of the Ministry of Defense, trying to reduce the level of ethnic crime among the troops, decided to completely abandon the call of the Chechens and significantly reduce the number of draftees from Dagestan.

The new minister, Sergei Shoigu, immediately came under the pressure of the heads of national republics and an organized campaign in the Caucasian media.

Thus, on November 23, the electronic publication Caucasian Politics published a large article under the notable title “The Armed Forces, having refused to recruit Caucasians, faced a critical shortage of conscripts.” As a result, 29 November already became aware that Shoigu agreed to significantly increase the number of conscription for Caucasians. Moreover, many Russian newspapers are already writing about the consequences of such a decision. In particular, “Izvestia” in the article “Shoigu agreed to increase the call from Dagestan” reported: “Immediately 11 deputies from Dagestan wrote an appeal to Shoigu with a request to increase the call in 2013 to 35 thousand. The press service of the President of Dagestan“ Izvestia ”confirmed the fact of agreement about increasing the number of recruits. The Ministry of Defense refrained from commenting ... The problem of falling quotas on residents of the republic was outlined several years ago. The military explain this informally by the lack of discipline of the Dagestanis, their unwillingness to carry out orders and conflict. The indiscipline of compatriots did not deny the leadership of the republic. Experts explained the decline in the number of Dagestanis in the army by the fears of the Defense Ministry to end up with not militants defending Russia, but militants who, after service, could join the ranks of terrorist structures. ” In this context, we mention the large state of emergency 28 of August of this year: a Dagestani soldier shot seven border guards from a machine gun. The investigation revealed that the criminal was recruited by one of the terrorist cells of radical Islamists operating in Dagestan ...

However, it is already clear that the commanders in the field will have to clear up the consequences of new experiments in the army. In this sense, the example of the 138 th motorized rifle brigade, which only two years ago was considered one of the most criminal in the Russian army, is indicative. However, after the arrival of a new commander in the unit, Colonel Alexander Ivanovich Novkin, the situation changed radically. Colonel Novkin firmly and decisively crushed "hazing", significantly improved the nutrition of soldiers with high-quality and honest use of outsourcing and managed to lead the brigade to the position of the best military unit in the district. May God grant our army more such commanders!
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  1. +27
    10 December 2012 11: 48
    We need special forces for one full cycle of conscription from contract soldiers who would bludgeon the "grandfathers" themselves for hazing and only in this case it is possible to defeat this abscess on the body of our army. Landings won't help. Fight fire with fire.
    1. Igor
      -16
      10 December 2012 13: 07
      Quote: alexneg
      We need special forces for one full cycle of conscription from contract soldiers who would bludgeon the "grandfathers" themselves for hazing and only in this case it is possible to defeat this abscess on the body of our army. Landings won't help. Fight fire with fire.


      Well, why is it so difficult? It is enough to call once a year, some came, others left, others left new came.
      1. +12
        10 December 2012 13: 47
        It will not work out - this means that for at least six months the army will be incompetent. There should be a rolling shift of personnel. Somewhere like that.
      2. Che
        Che
        +3
        10 December 2012 16: 04
        .Igor,
        Moreover, the theme of “hazing” is not considered as a problem requiring solution, but as evidence of the complete decomposition of the Armed Forces
        It would be a desire, but you can restore order in the units. At the councils - where the commander sensible grandfathers did not command.
        1. thatupac
          +1
          10 December 2012 20: 02
          Hazing is not a decomposition of the armed forces. This is a competent way for senior staff and officers to freebie at work. But the agrarian, after all, is also no one at work does not give all the best initially. And why are officers worse?
    2. Download Do Re Mi
      +12
      10 December 2012 14: 10
      From contracting hazing no less than from conscripts!
      1. +1
        10 December 2012 16: 43
        everything is as always ... We beat on the tails. Let the local commanders suffer ... They are supposed to be sort of like .... And soldiers are the fruit of our society and relations ...
        It’s not so simple. If we don’t fundamentally change our attitude towards those who have served and have not served, nothing will work ... We need to provide benefits to soldiers at the legislative level. And service in law enforcement agencies, and work in government agencies, studying at the tower, owning any weapons, etc. ... I didn’t serve, so I have to work 5-10 for years to take a position ...
        Why doesn’t even the idea of ​​a slope arise in the Israeli army? Yes, because I understand that I didn’t serve and you won’t get anything from the state
        1. Download Do Re Mi
          0
          10 December 2012 17: 19
          I agree that if I didn’t serve, then I should not be able to occupy positions in the leadership! But bullying must be eradicated, otherwise the army will come to an end, what kind of combat partnership can be discussed, when this is happening, for which if it were my will. and it’s all. and all went ON, and the press and civilized Geyropa!
          1. thatupac
            +1
            10 December 2012 20: 06
            The Army has strong people, average and weak. So the strong will always "hammer" the weak. If all Emelianenko were drafted into the Army, then there would be no non-regulation. Different categories of people come with different life developments.
        2. +3
          10 December 2012 19: 27
          In the book by Robert Heinlein "Starship Troopers", in my opinion, a model of society is well described, where patriotism is associated with the ability of a citizen to hold positions in government bodies, the right to vote in elections. He served honestly and resigned with dignity - you have guaranteed demand in civilian life, help in your studies, etc. The military regulations are very clearly spelled out, which is aimed at revealing the insides of a citizen and the commanders are given the authority to "give a start in life", something that the police are now trying to introduce, incl. collective responsibility for the person to whom he gave the recommendation.
          1. thatupac
            -1
            10 December 2012 20: 07
            Everything described by Heinlein is possible only in a state with a totalitarian regime like communism, fascism or Islamic fundamentalism.
            1. Van
              +1
              10 December 2012 21: 24
              Quote: thatupac
              everything described by Heinlein is possible only in a state with a totalitarian regime like communism, fascism or Islamic fundamentalism.


              Sometimes it seems that without all this, it is simply not possible to restore order in the world that has gone too far, but democracy there, freedom without borders, and other benefits of the modern perverted world are likely to lead us to complete decline and oblivion. what
            2. 0
              10 December 2012 21: 41
              The main democrats of the world, the USA, do not strive for this, for the unification of the world under a single command. And something is all through the blood, and there society itself came to such a model. In the book, everyone is happy, including non-serving, engaged in commerce. They only lifted the burden of responsibility for society, the direction of its development, the right to declare war they are also deprived. These are vegetables that live for themselves. They don’t hold them by the thorn, they don’t shut their mouths. Is this fascism?
        3. thatupac
          +3
          10 December 2012 20: 03
          What is it about serving in the Army to do some kind of privilege? They serve the year. There is nothing like that heroic in the service. For 1 year, young people are encouraged to work as security guards at the state level and are directly subordinate to the leadership of the Army. But in Israel, as in the USSR: you will not serve, you will not create a career and a successful life in the country. There it is on a voluntary basis.
          1. 0
            10 December 2012 21: 57
            That's when society will provide young people at a certain stage with the RIGHT to choose their own path, understanding the consequences of their decision, then the army will be different. Military service should be an interesting, profitable, conscious choice of a patriot. The charter only needs to be implemented and the commander should be like Colonel Alexander Ivanovich Novkin.
    3. thatupac
      +1
      10 December 2012 20: 00
      Contractors themselves stand for grandfathers right now. And very well established themselves in this. And in the contract parts of the type of the 46th BB brigade in Chechnya, the grandfather is the one who has previously signed the contract, and who has more than one year of passport.
    4. Starksa
      0
      10 December 2012 22: 33
      the main thing is that they do not bend as officers who do not give a shit (to some)
    5. 0
      10 December 2012 22: 40
      Quote: alexneg

      We need special forces for one full cycle of conscription from contract soldiers who would bludgeon the "grandfathers" themselves for hazing and only in this case it is possible to defeat this abscess on the body of our army

      It seems that something is already being done in this direction. The duties of the military police will also include the function of eradicating hazing among recruits.
    6. +1
      11 December 2012 16: 34
      The cause of bullying is in the general moral decline of our people. I emphasize in the moral. People now do not respect each other and do not like, in everything they seek their own. Here is the root of hazing. I doubt that under the Tsar, when they served for 25 years, there was hazing. It’s just that before people were better and friendlier, but earlier there was no hazing.
  2. +22
    10 December 2012 12: 02
    "Grandfathers" - the same former conscripts, and for a year of service - what kind of grandfather is he? So either the youth went spineless - amoebic, or they did not want to reduce the service life! training - six months and a couple of years in the troops! I have not even heard a hint of hazing from my acquaintances of modern conscripts. Datsad "star" and not the army! Quiet hour and bodily examination daily. Abrasion - immediately a prosecutor's check.
    1. bask
      +10
      10 December 2012 12: 36
      The concept of bullying, remained in the 80s and early 90s. Now in the army, or just criminal gangsterism. Or nationalist, mixed up with extremist literature, Islamic, - Caucasian gangsterism. When taking the oath, points must be entered. In case of refusal and complete disobedience on the part of the military personnel to the commander. A 3-year automatic dispute machine and a life-long ban on occupying state .. duties. And studying at the state .. institute, colleges .. And it’s better not to take Caucasians to the army -, hemorrhoids, less commanders will be ....
      1. +5
        10 December 2012 12: 48
        Quote: bask
        But it’s better to take Caucasians altogether, not to take into the army- ,, hemorrhoids ,, the commanders will have less ....

        That is, Russians (and other nationalities) should serve their homeland, but Caucasians do not? In our country, all nationalities are generally equal then. soldier
        1. qube4
          0
          10 December 2012 16: 07
          But not everyone thinks so ...
        2. Glory
          +2
          10 December 2012 16: 16
          And all Caucasians should be called up for life in Moscow bazaars.
          1. thatupac
            0
            10 December 2012 20: 10
            It used to be that they were pushing tomatoes at the bazaar, and now they are driving networks, in which Russian students earn their rubles after studying.
        3. Denzel13
          +6
          10 December 2012 19: 07
          Yes, residents of the Caucasian republics in the army are not needed. As far as I remember, the last call when several Dagestanis fell into the division (out of 1500 people only 5-7) was in 1989, then only Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians, respectively, after 1991, only Russians. And nothing, the less efficient part did not become without Caucasians.

          And on account of "bullying" I think that this is the responsibility of the officers. As the order is established in the unit, it will be so. And in general, the more the unit is engaged in its direct business (that is, combat training), the less non-statutory inclinations.
          1. thatupac
            -4
            10 December 2012 20: 14
            It is precisely by the fact that the Caucasians are not called into the Airborne Forces, the Airborne Forces itself signed that they are practically unable to reason with the Caucasians in their units. And they refused to sin away from the nationalities. And on August 2 they are trying to prove that they are not afraid of the Caucasians. Why then don't they call? They are afraid that they will make a part of the landing party "black", but it will be a shame for the elite then? laughing .

            Officers are not educators, so that for all sorts of weaklings they should constantly get involved. Constantly engage in business, that is, directly in combat training, a very tedious and difficult occupation, which is vtukhalovym for both officers and personnel. It on paper seems like shooting is cool. But in reality, more hemorrhoids come out with these shooting ranges.
            1. Denzel13
              +3
              10 December 2012 21: 23
              Quote: thatupac
              They are afraid that they will make a part of the landing party "black", and this will be a shame for the elite then?


              Never tell the paratroopers this in person, otherwise your face can be greatly ruined for a long time. Enjoy the benefits of "remote access" on the Internet.

              But in fact, if you have something in your head besides the bones of the skull, you could remember something from the Soviet past - then the Airborne Forces had a multinational composition, which was due to the social environment, upbringing and high level of education. To attract to the service in the present realities citizens who, it is not known for whom, will be on the next "business trip" - what's the point. And after being fired, what will a more or less trained body do with its aul? Again, I will not reveal the secret of how they receive diplomas in the schools of the Caucasian republics. And what will happen if a complex technique is entrusted to a person with purchased grades?
              And you seemed to be serving in some kind of completely Mabut division, where there are no other traditions other than how to dismiss from service and fill your stomach. Perhaps I will open for you something new - not everywhere like that.
              1. thatupac
                -3
                11 December 2012 00: 09
                Oh, do not drive the blizzard because the paratroopers are not afraid of them. Be afraid and how. Yes, so much so that they once shoved the building battles. We know, we know these heroes of the Union in vests ...
                1. +1
                  11 December 2012 07: 04
                  What do you know about building battalion?
                  1. SAVA555.IVANOV
                    +1
                    11 December 2012 12: 22
                    In the construction battalion this "crooked fool" would have been leveled, and not in the toilet and not with fists, but simply convinced with good reasons, and he would have matured a little faster. And now we have a young deer on the site, kicks, butts wants to try young horns (show-off) bully
                2. Denzel13
                  +4
                  11 December 2012 11: 46
                  Quote: thatupac
                  We know, we know these heroes of the Union in vests ...


                  I don’t like to slide into personalities, all the more so since it’s hard to call such a worthless organism with a complete lack of brain activity a personality, but I repeat: thatupac, but faintly repeat the same thing offline? I'd love to see me personally, but you can just anyone who served in the Airborne Forces.
                  Except how to yapping on the Internet are not capable of anything else? So you will die in the awareness of your wretchedness, a quiet fellow, dumping into the net "pearls" born by inferiority complexes.
                3. gladiatorakz
                  +2
                  11 December 2012 12: 31
                  Quote: thatupac
                  We know, we know these heroes of the Union in vests ...

                  It is probably after this meeting that dislike of the airborne forces flared up. Yeah, they beat hard and for sure .... laughing
                  But seriously, I am proud of my attitude to these troops.
            2. +1
              11 December 2012 07: 02
              sick commentary, commentator with a sick imagination
          2. Starksa
            -1
            11 December 2012 17: 17
            Well, usually what happens at night? or at night also need to do military training?
        4. thatupac
          -1
          10 December 2012 20: 09
          It’s just that Caucasians can for the most part stand up for others and strain others, but Russians can’t.
          1. +7
            11 December 2012 07: 11
            What Caucasians can do, Russians, if desired and under certain circumstances, do much better, so much better that Caucasians have a rest, somewhere where it is damp and smells bad. I write about it because I saw it all myself. I saw how Caucasians "grandfathers" of their own countrymen, to put it mildly, were forced to clean up after themselves. They are painted more than they are worth. Caucasians run very fast, it is almost impossible to catch up. From two chases into one they caught up after 8 km. Like this. After all this, they are the sweetest people.
          2. donchepano
            +3
            11 December 2012 08: 16
            Quote: thatupac
            It’s just that Caucasians can for the most part stand up for others and strain others, but Russians can’t.


            So who does not give you? get together and stand.
          3. gladiatorakz
            +6
            11 December 2012 10: 34
            "thatupac" "It's just that Caucasians, for the most part, can stand up for themselves and strain others, but Russians cannot." "Fear has big eyes! belay Where does such admiration for the Caucasians and disregard for the Russians come from?
            1. Denzel13
              +5
              11 December 2012 11: 52
              He (thatupac) somewhere wrote in a post that he served with some Caucasians - that’s what he judged by himself - apparently they bent him more than once or twice.
              1. +5
                11 December 2012 12: 05
                Quote: Denzel13
                He (thatupac) somewhere wrote in a post that he served with some Caucasians - that’s what he judged by himself - apparently they bent him more than once or twice.

                Yes, in the sixes at the dugs I spent the whole time, now I’m knocking on the clave and swaggering. I have looked at such pontorez.
            2. SAVA555.IVANOV
              +2
              11 December 2012 12: 56
              They changed it, subjugated it, now it will give everything to them !!! fool
      2. +16
        10 December 2012 14: 17
        Quote: bask

        The concept of bullying, remained in the 80s and early 90s. Now in the army, or just criminal gangsterism. Or nationalist, mixed up with extremist literature, Islamic, - Caucasian gangsterism. When taking the oath, points must be entered. In case of refusal and complete disobedience on the part of the military personnel to the commander. A 3-year automatic dispute machine and a life-long ban on occupying state .. duties. And studying at the state .. institute, colleges .. And it’s better not to take Caucasians to the army -, hemorrhoids, less commanders will be ....

        Here, Basque, I don’t completely agree with you. National hazing is present of course, but usual too. I have a question of the following plan: Where are the officers, commanders? their departure, the responsible officer on the spot can’t get too much. The lip must be returned and the trespassers must be tough to enter, 5-7 days of darting with crawls that barely reach the bunks on the lip, the brains will swing in the right place. It’s impossible to liberalize, they themselves are to blame. They didn’t understand what they did from the army, they serve for a year, and they’re also grandfather.
        1. Che
          Che
          +7
          10 December 2012 16: 08
          baltika-18,
          I found this myself. Where the commander is not a rag there is order.
        2. thatupac
          -5
          10 December 2012 20: 16
          It's just that publishers will then be more cautious and sophisticated, but they won't go anywhere. Officers are not required to stand up for every sychev. In addition, all your "5-7 dashes" need someone who would control. And in the end, no one is immune from retribution, when the demobilization late in the evening will wait for the officer at his entrance.
          1. +2
            10 December 2012 20: 28
            Quote: thatupac
            Officers are not required to intervene for every owl.

            We attributed all sychevy from the barracks to the headquarters and they lived there. So after a couple of months they will not be recognizable. All the wearers go weaker and dig each other who is weaker.
          2. +5
            10 December 2012 21: 07
            thatupac,
            If I came to the unit and could do what the soldier couldn’t do, then whoever could meet me at the entrance could stay there. The officers themselves must be strong in body and spirit.
      3. +3
        10 December 2012 16: 46
        Quote: bask
        .Now in the army, or just criminal banditry. Either nationalistic, implicated in extremist literature, Islamic, - Caucasian banditry.
        And before that there were no national groupings? There were in the 70, and in the 80, and later .... It’s just that in those days, soldiers really could resist this and the law was respected without the intervention of the presidents of the Caucasian republics
        1. bask
          +5
          10 December 2012 18: 24
          domoki As soon as the Caucasians get a rebuff, in the face .. Immediately run to complain to their, community members, the presidents of their republics .. AND THE RUSSIANS ALWAYS PUNISH. A. Caucasian people almost always avoid any punishment !!!! I AM FOR EQUALITY, IN THE RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS OF ALL SOLDIERS, INDEPENDENTLY ON THEIR NATIONALITY !!! And Russian guys to be more honest with their ,,,,,, brothers ,,, Caucasians. We need to cook at least six months. Under the GRU program ... Then there will be peace and tranquility and they won’t bargain .....
          1. thatupac
            +1
            10 December 2012 20: 20
            There is nothing like that. They run to complain when they understand that the chances that they can resist the lawlessness of the officers are small, and when the reality of mopping and scuffing the floors is very high. Only then. Well, or when the Caucasians of the senior conscription ask to stand up for them in a brotherly way, so that the elders do not end up in the disciplinary battalion or go to prison. So it was in Aleisk. And the Russians are all by themselves, do not stand for each other, they humiliate themselves with bullying, physo initially at an average or low level, psychologically many are ready to hang out. Therefore, the Caucasians rule in the "black" units, since they take power in the barracks not by number and quantity, but by quality and pre-prepared installations, which they were advised even in civilian life or at their assembly point.
            1. Yarbay
              +2
              10 December 2012 22: 44
              Quote: thatupac
              Therefore, the Caucasians rule in the "black" units, since they take power in the barracks not by number and quantity, but by quality and pre-prepared installations, which they were advised even in civilian life or at their assembly point.
              It should be noted that this happens where there is a basis for this, that is, there is no control on the part of the commanders!
      4. thatupac
        -3
        10 December 2012 20: 08
        This will never happen, that for every guilt and non-obedience to 3 years of discord they will send. Tormented by disputes build so much.
    2. +9
      10 December 2012 12: 57
      Quote: Drednout
      and for a year of service - what kind of grandfather is this?

      As far as I know, the concept of "hazing" has deep historical roots. Under the tsar, when there was no general military duty, but those who were "lucky" served for 25 years, there was a practice when a new recruit was assigned to an old soldier. T.N. The "grandfather" (in fact, this to some extent reflected reality) shared some responsibilities with his young experience and the wisdom of military service, for which he performed for "grandfather", due to his age, and often his state of health, some duties or simply helped in everyday life. .. The same thing that is happening now has little to do with the historical roots of this concept.
      1. +12
        10 December 2012 15: 28
        For a long time, of course, I had to deal with this "hazing", and more specifically "Godkovshchina".
        Here you have, Anatoly .. in addition to Nikolai - ready-made solutions. Which are on my ship, commander Belyaev back in 1981-1984. applied ..
        Soldier / Sailor - Must be busy. If earlier it was possible to build there ... good luck to build, remove potatoes ... but now, with this "suction" - only BP ... run, shoot, chase elephants, dig trenches, embark and disembark in BMP, bury trenches, re-dig ... Disguise, pull-ups.
        So that by 21:00 they would fall dead. Sleep.
        Moreover, every young man is obliged to be "fastened" to a middle-aged one - a grandfather, in short. We will not go into subtleties - there is a crucian carp, a ladle, a civilian. And this one - the grandfather - is fully responsible for the young - including the results of a physical examination.
        ..
        So it was with Belyaev, so I did, according to his orders - and with me ... they didn’t knock out their teeth, they didn’t break anything and my warhead was in the first place for three years. Because he himself didn’t sleep ... he didn’t go to the shore, there was no one to whom .. and he was constantly hanging out in the cockpit.
        ...
        I won’t say anything about land ... there is much less experience, and the specifics are different.
        But the system - the root and the affirmative - did not fail.
        ..
        It is necessary to serve, it is necessary to work, REAL BUSINESS must be dealt with ... and not to produce pieces of paper.
        Union of mothers ... - good ... union of fathers ... - even better. Union of girls waiting ... union of girls not waiting .. union of "shoulder" ... how many things you can think of.
        1. Che
          Che
          +2
          10 December 2012 16: 10
          Igarr,
          I agree. So it was. All lost today.
        2. thatupac
          -4
          10 December 2012 20: 24
          If you didn’t know, but building summer cottages, working at home with officers and peeling potatoes in the army is considered to be a fading away. It’s better to build a bathhouse in the general’s dacha than to put in a dayroom, on guard, or make a full-march roll and is on the territory of the unit, as in a prison.
          1. 0
            12 December 2012 20: 42
            thatupac,
            The enemy is not inside, the enemy is behind the hill. Why fight among themselves, we must learn to fight with the enemy. The enemy is famous.
      2. Glory
        0
        10 December 2012 16: 20
        But there is much in common with the "zone".
        1. thatupac
          -2
          10 December 2012 20: 26
          There is much in common with the zone because the prison barracks and huts are closed and isolated territories with a separate male collective.
    3. Glory
      0
      10 December 2012 16: 14
      Everything in your comment is true from the first to the last word. The army should be an ARMY, and not a place for serving an "honorable duty" for spineless mummy youth. The service life is at least TWO years, the abolition of any "MOTHER". And what "grandfathers" did "mothers committees" bring up from childhood?
      1. thatupac
        -2
        10 December 2012 20: 27
        And the 1st year is enough to work out by state guards. It makes sense to train contractors who still don’t go to the Army en masse. But conscripts can also be taught the basics, so that in case of which they wouldn’t lose their mother on the ground later.
  3. IlyaKuv
    +8
    10 December 2012 12: 03
    Older people should be called up, who are smarter than their younger tribesmen, or they play in young hormones either not yet received education, or only from the institute, and they will immediately be in the army. Of course, there is confusion in the army now, discipline is needed, so the initial military training should be introduced for children to be prepared for military service, and only after reaching the age of 23-25 ​​can psychologically and physically formed people be called up.
    1. thatupac
      -1
      10 December 2012 20: 29
      At 23-25 ​​years old people already have family-work-business established. And you them in the Army. That's it, that 18-19 year olds are best encouraged. They are not yet particularly drawn into adulthood with all its problems.
  4. 0
    10 December 2012 12: 09
    from the natives of Chechnya and Dagestan to recruit construction battalions, let them improve their skills, come in handy on a civilian, suffer from idleness and misdirect their energy ............. twenty bricks and to the twenty-fifth floor on foot without an elevator .. ...... and then at night there will be only one right desire
  5. 0
    10 December 2012 12: 13
    from the natives of Chechnya and Dagestan to recruit construction battalions, let them improve their skills, come in handy on a civilian, suffer from idleness and misdirect their energy ............. twenty bricks and to the twenty-fifth floor on foot without an elevator .. ...... and then at night there will be only one right desire
  6. +10
    10 December 2012 12: 16
    Fish goes out of my head. If there was a strong will of the Authority, there wouldn’t be any real about hazing. And so ... How many more boys will die and how many will be mutilated? An army is needed, but strong and disciplined. But while in the country a mess, this simply can not be achieved.
    1. +3
      10 December 2012 12: 53
      The presence of "bullying" in our army is a direct defect of the junior command staff! Or rather, a negligent attitude towards their direct duties to maintain discipline in the entrusted unit. Where there is no, or not enough power, there will always be lawlessness. Already passed in the 90s. am
      In addition, each soldier is a combat unit. And the people incapacitating these "units" are enemies of the army, etc. with all the ensuing consequences.
      1. +5
        10 December 2012 16: 56
        Quote: GSH-18
        The presence of "bullying" in our army is a direct defect of the junior command staff! Or rather, a negligent attitude towards their direct duties to maintain discipline in the entrusted unit.

        The deficiency of the junior command staff directly depends on how the senior command staff is headed, namely Kombat, NSh, and especially the commander of the unit. If the commander keeps all officers in check, if necessary, help with word and deed, do not close your eyes and constantly keep in touch with prosecutors and VSHosnikami, then the order will be in the whole part entrusted to him.
        1. thatupac
          0
          10 December 2012 20: 32
          In the beginning, it will be so that the authorities will maintain discipline. But over time it all bothers.
    2. thatupac
      -1
      10 December 2012 20: 30
      The army is a section of society. What a society, then such an Army. Shifting responsibility to superiors is useless here. It does not depend on the authorities that Sychevs and all kinds of candidates for master of sports in freestyle wrestling come to the Army at the same time.
  7. +23
    10 December 2012 12: 17
    from the natives of Chechnya and Dagestan to recruit construction battalions, let them improve their skills, come in handy on a civilian, suffer from idleness and misdirect their energy ............. twenty bricks and to the twenty-fifth floor on foot without an elevator .. ...... and then at night there will be only one right desire
    1. thatupac
      -1
      10 December 2012 20: 34
      Why is it so? Are the Caucasians the last suckers, and the Russians are such kings that you so divided them according to their duties? It is necessary to send Sychev syvkons to the construction battalions. Anyway, these weaklings in the Army are no good. Let them serve better and provide more trained soldiers for service.
      1. nickname 1 and 2
        +3
        11 December 2012 00: 06
        Quote: thatupac
        Anyway, these weaklings in the Army are no good.

        Well done against the sheep and against the well done and the sheep himself. Military brotherhood!
        Didn't hear that? Broom made of twigs ......! In short: you did not see the commander
        of the present! This is your trouble! Not a military unit (unit) but a gang! On you (God forbid) Fritz and you end! And where will your daring go.

        Author rights:
        Quote: thatupac
        May God give our army more such commanders!

        = where the real commander is - there is a real military combat unit and hazing is deep underground and it is aimed at strengthening military discipline and nothing else (I served 39 months in such an army)
  8. +19
    10 December 2012 12: 21
    It all depends on the commander! FROM THE COMMANDER !!! Example: during the first 3 months, a new military commander sent 3 servicemen (demobilization and grandfathers) to the battalion, the rest were warned when they ran out of service in the ranks of the SA. Six months later, the Disbatans began to return and told WHAT IS DISBAT, and their service life was more than 3 years. Before the collapse of the USSR, military units HAS NO LONGER MORE.
    1. +5
      10 December 2012 12: 42
      My soul, d.gksueyjd! Don't talk about what you don't know. In the 80s, I commanded a company for seven years, saw enough of everything, put one monster of Caucasian nationality in a disciplinary battalion, for which I received a reprimand (with entry) along the party line for hazing in the unit, although before that two years the company was the best in the unit ... So there was a "non-regulation" in the troops both before the "collapse" and after ...
      Burn with a hot iron, put in jail with serious consequences, review the Criminal Code. As for the Dag, Azer, Dargin and others - to form units of them at 100% (with officers, sergeants, contractors, etc.) - let them frolic ...
      1. +8
        10 December 2012 12: 56
        As I don’t know, the valiant VK distributed to our military unit Armenians and Georgians the CALL we had to spend the night in the barracks in turn, not to mention the rest. Having arrived, the new commander explained the charter and laws of the USSR to the contingent. They didn’t understand in the dining room. in part he was forced to shoot up to stop the mass brawl. the case was given arrived by the military. prosecutor's office - figured out who is at the police station, who is in dits, baht, whom they transferred to another part. 6 months after the return of the ditsbatites, serving was a pleasure.
        And you came under the hand, because of the commander of the military unit, he covered up criminal activity for his own good.
        1. +4
          10 December 2012 13: 43
          The Armenians and Georgians I had competent and sensible guys, but those that I mentioned in my post - these freaks sometimes just had to be hit in the face - they don’t understand otherwise. Only power and authority are recognized ... One Azerbaijani sailor once just tore out with a belt in a battalion. Father later said thanks and from the Caspian fish with caviar threw ...
          My soul! Why is your flag some kind of NATO?
      2. +5
        10 December 2012 14: 19
        A friend serves on contract. His company is made up entirely of Dag and other natives. So he told how they beat each other's faces when they decide who will wash the floors! And there is no mention of fraternity !!!
        1. thatupac
          -2
          10 December 2012 20: 38
          Well, there are no Russians. Here Dagi and understand themselves, which of them is weaker. There is nothing like that here.
      3. +3
        10 December 2012 21: 14
        TRex,
        For the fact that they brought the matter to the landing, I respect. Received a reprimand - sucks, but who did not? Survived nothing.
      4. +3
        10 December 2012 21: 45
        Quote: TRex
        as for the Dugs, Azeris, Dargins and others - to form units of them 100% (with officers, sergeants, contractors, etc.) - let them frolic ...

        With your own hands to create a fifth column (and even armed)?
        I will add about the myth that for Caucasians like washing the floors is a national humiliation. He served in the 70s and saw that they know how to wash floors and after two weeks of service they pork pork for both cheeks. Dagov was part third.
        And the rest I agree with you. It is necessary to take a tougher approach to identifying and punishing "hazing" relationships (in fact, often criminal offenses).
  9. +8
    10 December 2012 12: 23
    It all depends on the competent management of this herd. Young people, like bull-calves, try their strength and mind on each other, cooking in the army household. And only a normal sergeant and officer staff can give council to this herd. And it doesn’t matter - the Chechens there, Muscovites or someone else prevails. It's just that honestly in our youth, the fear of excess dofig, and even the army does not always knock him out ... But the coward, who can’t give any change, doesn’t tell the commander, he will be tormented to the end of his life.
    1. thatupac
      -3
      10 December 2012 20: 40
      Yeah, sergeants and officers, straight. And what is worse than Private Tagirbekov, what can organize the work and report on its implementation to the authorities? The fact that he is an ordinary or what? The result is important. And whoever provides it is already secondary.
  10. +1
    10 December 2012 12: 27
    And how can the command affect the soldier if he put everything down. So they give freedom to grandfathers, what would order be. Another thing is that the grandfathers go too far. Well, about the Caucasians, a separate conversation.
    1. +3
      10 December 2012 17: 50
      Quote: yllo
      And how can the command affect the soldier if he put everything down.

      Easy. A march throw with full combat around the parade ground, it is also possible from the OZK. It does not reach through the head, it reaches through the legs. But for drunks, they used to practice this way, each of them had a bucket of water diluted with potassium permanganate and a drill for the whole day. , vomited, walked around again ... And so for the whole day. By the evening they can't even say "Mu", but in the morning, like silk ones. The main thing is that everything is according to the charter and without assault soldier
      1. Denzel13
        +3
        10 December 2012 20: 05
        Here, you conduct night tactical exercises + equipment of a full defense profile for shooting from a white horse. And then afternoon classes according to plan, and then again night and ..... everything goes. Even mild illnesses.
      2. thatupac
        -4
        10 December 2012 20: 42
        You are naive. Among such a contingent that clogs everything up, not to bend under the jackals is a very good opportunity to increase their credibility in the team. Well, evil officers will only be kept more. And mow too in revenge.
        1. Denzel13
          +3
          10 December 2012 20: 58
          I understand you thatupac served urgent. Of course, I may be naive, but I don’t remember that "those who score and want to increase their authority" held out in this way for a long time.
        2. +2
          10 December 2012 23: 10
          Quote: thatupac
          You are naive. Among such a clogging contingent that doesn’t bend under the jackals, there is a very good opportunity to increase your authority in the team.

          Naive you. Sooner or later, those slaughtering, if other methods did not work, the officers bent in full. If you served in some kind of plague unit, then you are lucky.
  11. Nechai
    +17
    10 December 2012 12: 29
    Co-Chairman of the Council of Muftis of Russia Nafigulla Ashirov - is disingenuous and provokes His Holiness. The customs and traditions of the behavior of the men of the HOUSE and the WARRIOR, as well as the TRAVELER, are different things! And he knows this very well, but when he blows into the same tune (to live a hot life) with the rulers of the North Caucasus lands, he sings these songs. Well, yes, well, yes, according to their Wishlist, we are already obligated to comply with the Code for the proper conduct of our behavior and the treatment of GUESTS from the Caucasus.
    Quote: alexneg
    Landing will not help. Fight fire with fire.

    Alexander Ivanovich, that's right. Only "WEDGE" MUST be ubiquitous and uniform. That is, STATE !!! And then, after all, the "humiliated horsemen" immediately upon receiving the lulls, pull up their local diaspora for dismantling. And the rulers of the Russian race, on the ground, head in the sand, including the "right-fucking" - "You are the Army, and at your problems, extricate yourself as you want, but you dare not use weapons!"
    It is necessary to solve not only the "problems of ethnic crime", but to suppress the NAZI education of young people, both in the Caucasus and in other regions of the country! And with all the rigidity, intolerance and irreconcilability! Otherwise, in the future, all of us (including Muslims) will face the most serious trials and tragedies ...
    1. thatupac
      -7
      10 December 2012 20: 43
      In the Army, spirits, wimps and deer wash the floor. What is the reason that Caucasians find a reason not to be among the above?
      1. Starksa
        +3
        12 December 2012 11: 35
        and those who shit and do not clean up after themselves, who are they? deer or pigs?
        1. Denzel13
          +3
          12 December 2012 16: 07
          Quote: StarkSA

          and those who shit and do not clean up after themselves, who are they? deer or pigs?


          These are pigs with deer brains. Or pig deer. In principle, from a change in the places of the terms - the form does not change, and it remains moronic.
  12. +22
    10 December 2012 12: 29
    It all depends on the commanders, from the platoon, to the commander of the unit! If there is no desire to do this, then there is nothing to do in the army! former company
    1. Dimani
      +3
      10 December 2012 12: 43
      I agree with Hansik .... it all depends on the commanders. And in general, I think that in the event of hazing, the officers in whose unit this happened, up to the commander, and preferably with a demotion with all the ensuing consequences, should be removed from office. For "hazing" is the decomposition of discipline.
      1. +3
        10 December 2012 14: 24
        From this there is hazing and, in general, "decomposition", that the commanders who are fighting against such manifestations are removed, removed, demoted, etc. And this has long become the rule, FROM HERE COMMANDS AND HIDE THE STATE OF DISCIPLINE IN A DEPARTMENT OR PART.
        There should be completely different views (which until now have not been, although they have been promised) on the work of commanders, and fully punish those who really scored everything. And those who work and do not hide the state of affairs in the unit should not be afraid of punishment " anyhow and just anyone. "
        1. 0
          10 December 2012 17: 59
          Quote: AlexVas44
          There should be completely different views (which until now are not, although promised) on the work of commanders

          Higher headquarters should take care of this. And in our army, there is a competitive process for the title of the best brigade and mutual responsibility. If the commander, together with the prosecutor’s office, identify and punish violators of the discipline, then all indicators for a part are reduced immediately, accordingly there is no bonus and no increase for the commander brigade, as well as, not least importantly, the commander receives a lyuley. Therefore, it is beneficial for everyone to hush up and not to take dirty linen out of the hut outside the unit.
  13. donchepano
    +3
    10 December 2012 12: 30
    You can’t allow any group to be grouped. Immediately break up by transfer to other units, including changing regions
  14. +9
    10 December 2012 12: 40
    It all depends on the commander. The commanders are preparing the training part. That is, the education of the future commander is already the first step in overcoming hazing.
    In 1989-1991, I served at three PV outposts and you know one time, one generation, and the relations in the team are different. A lot depends on the commander, a lot! And the general relations in the soldier’s collective take shape depending on the cultural and intellectual level, because most of us had plenty of physical strength. But surely the commander monitors the relations in the team and prevents harmful phenomena. And we practically didn’t let out weapons from our hands. Watch on duty is up to 12 hours a day, two days off a month and then incomplete. That is, a dream service, a dream service. Probably it is necessary that in the unit there was a full-fledged combat training, so that the soldier had as little personal time as possible, he did not arrive at the resort, the soldier was defending the country.

    Do not forget about the education of future soldiers from school, no work is done here. WHY?
    Already here from school you need to start educating future soldiers !!! and most of the upbringing needs to be built up from the fact that the boy will become a man, a soldier who, so that others live, perhaps with arms in hand, will defend his Fatherland.
  15. +10
    10 December 2012 12: 40
    We have recently, about 25 years, some fighters on paper, now with corruption, then with hazing! If the commander of the unit had washed up under the order to wash their floors, then 2 people left for the dizbat, and the rest washed, and they didn’t even remember about insulting their feelings !!!
  16. SAVA555.IVANOV
    -19
    10 December 2012 12: 50
    Or maybe "Caucasians" be appointed to command positions !? They still take over the Russian spineless commanders. I have a couple of fair Dagestanis, they will not offend you !! ?? What do the officers say ?? lol
    1. +13
      10 December 2012 12: 55
      SAVA555.IVANOV,
      Litter, I for putting competent commanders in command positions, and not just those who are better off, I had a Dagestan commander, the only one in the unit, an excellent master, no - Master, with a capital letter and an excellent commander. This is an exception. The posts in the army should be prepared and worthy. And not by nationality.
      1. SAVA555.IVANOV
        -6
        10 December 2012 13: 05
        I say "FAIR" and not those "Indians" dancers !!! lol
    2. +6
      10 December 2012 13: 48
      Sava! Your last name is not Schuster, by any chance?
      There are plenty of troubles and problems in Ukraine - get involved ...
      1. SAVA555.IVANOV
        +4
        10 December 2012 14: 21
        I have not heard from anyone about "hazing" in the Ukrainian Army, maybe because they literally serve "behind their own garden" laughing How can they unite with you and defend themselves against common enemies if you serve for apartments, for a "tick", and in general, why on earth are they GIVEN to you? WORK and do not ruin the Army like some. By the way, the commanders "dabbled" with parcels from caring national dads and mothers even when I served. How many years have you been grubbing out of the parcels, eating up !!! ??
    3. SAVA555.IVANOV
      +4
      10 December 2012 14: 29
      Touchy !!! ?? Minus !!! Skins !!!! School of life in the Army, you should teach and not "grandfathers", quitters, how the earth carries you !! ??
    4. Lakkuchu
      -1
      10 December 2012 17: 42
      During my service in the ranks of the SA, most of the foremen and sergeants in our unit were Caucasians. Officers appointed them, knowing that if the foreman was Caucasian, there would be discipline and order.
      1. +2
        10 December 2012 19: 05
        Lakkuchu,
        And we have a junior command staff the Slavs from Ukraine. There was always order, though there were few people from the Caucasus. But Caucasians served well. It was a shame for them to serve poorly. This is now a rampage of some sort of moronism.
      2. -1
        10 December 2012 19: 15
        A good solution, provided: 100% of the personnel of the unit of the same nationality (preferably from the same village), and the sergeant-major or sergeant is something like a tribal leader. Persons of non-"titular" nationality in this unit can either hang themselves, or be chmyrs, or shoot their colleagues if possible.
        Senior sergeant SA DMB88 ZhDV BAM
      3. SAVA555.IVANOV
        +2
        10 December 2012 21: 36
        We Ukrainians were sergeants. Then our call a couple of Georgians for the parcels became sergeants. There was laughter)))))
  17. +15
    10 December 2012 12: 56
    Strange laws in our country. They passed a law on the fight against nationalism and that: if the Caucasians forget the Russian in Moscow, it’s petty hooliganism (and if in the Caucasus no one will notice at all); and if a Russian calls a Caucasian, then this is nationalism and term. Again double standards, but it’s time for the authorities to listen to the mass called the people. Enough from our long-suffering homeland of revolutions.
    1. SAVA555.IVANOV
      +1
      10 December 2012 13: 11
      Quote: Sinbad
      Strange laws in our country.

      And the laws and directors are exactly the same as the HCCA and not only in Russia but also in our country laughing
      Probably "xoxly" sergeants would cope with this problem of the modern Russian army !?
      1. thatupac
        -6
        11 December 2012 01: 08
        You and the Soviet Union nat.meny had, and now would have only been on the road. Anyway.
        1. Denzel13
          +2
          11 December 2012 11: 56
          Quote: thatupac
          You and the Soviet Union nat.meny had, and now would have only been on the road. Anyway.


          Do not judge by yourself.
        2. SAVA555.IVANOV
          +3
          11 December 2012 12: 08
          Under the USSR We were almost brothers We shared all the trials equally, We did not admire the "Caucasians" (like You) and the Russians did not slander (like You). "It looks great. You hit your head." laughing And it seems a fact !!!! lol
        3. gladiatorakz
          +1
          11 December 2012 12: 45
          Quote: thatupac
          You and the Soviet Union nat.meny had, and now would have only been on the road. Anyway.

          It’s somehow not masculine to say something, just to try to hurt the interlocutor.
          Men talk with facts, arguments, etc. The facts are as follows: under the Union, more than 60% of the sergeant staff were Ukrainians, about 40% of officers. During the collapse, when they began to be transferred to Ukraine, the transfer took place with a decrease in rank. (There were too many officers)
          And I’m probably not mistaken in the Airborne Forces if I say 90-95% were Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Baltic states. There were kind of parts from Central Asia for operations in those regions. I haven’t seen it myself.
    2. -2
      10 December 2012 13: 13
      Quote: Sinbad
      Strange laws in our country. They passed a law on the fight against nationalism and that: if the Caucasians forget the Russian in Moscow, it’s petty hooliganism (and if in the Caucasus no one will notice at all); and if a Russian calls a Caucasian, then this is nationalism and term.

      Cite, if not difficult, the source of this amazing information? Is it really written there, do what you want and nothing will happen to you (but this does not concern Russians)? belay
    3. Lakkuchu
      +1
      10 December 2012 17: 48
      Quote: Sinbad

      Strange laws in our country. They passed a law on the fight against nationalism and that: if the Caucasians forget the Russian in Moscow, it’s petty hooliganism (and if in the Caucasus no one will notice at all); and if a Russian calls a Caucasian, then this is nationalism and term.

      Give examples if the request does not bother you.
  18. +10
    10 December 2012 13: 01
    First of all, the commanders are to blame for letting everything go on the brakes, turning a blind eye to hazing, just not to spoil the statistics. Platoon commanders generally have to live in shifts in the barracks! A living example, my comrade, when he was the battalion chief of staff, acted simply for every disobedience, refusal to comply with an order demanded an explanatory one. Azerbaijan is not Russia, there are many 'hot' guys here. However, he put things in order quickly, since some clever soldiers nevertheless deserved to ask why these explanatory ones - to which they received an answer: they still fly in and a personal confession of a misconduct goes to the prosecutor's desk! And for some reason they suddenly wanted to serve. If the commander himself wants to put things in order, no "communality" will do anything for the commander in the order of the LAW, only one should not be afraid to apply it!
    1. TekhnarMAF
      +3
      10 December 2012 15: 15
      I will not comment, basically you are right.
    2. +3
      10 December 2012 18: 08
      Quote: kotdavin4i
      If the commander himself wants to put things in order, no "communality" will do anything for the commander in the order of the LAW, only one should not be afraid to apply it!

      There is still a lot depending on the prosecutor’s office, many just blame the soldiers, as in kindergarten they don’t give any further progress. And in general I look at the young prosecutors and VShoshniks wonder how such brainless and unaware of elementary laws generally fell into such organizations !!!
    3. +2
      10 December 2012 19: 08
      kotdavin4i,
      Our comforces did not spare such, brought to court, put on his lip. Three years later, the best unit in the unit. Of course he raked at first, but the nerves in order were all withstood.
    4. Yarbay
      +1
      10 December 2012 22: 39
      Quote: kotdavin4i
      First of all, the commanders are to blame for letting everything go on the brakes, turning a blind eye to hazing, just not to spoil the statistics. Platoon commanders generally have to live in shifts in the barracks! A living example, my comrade, when he was the battalion chief of staff, acted simply for every disobedience, refusal to comply with an order demanded an explanatory one. Azerbaijan is not Russia, there are many 'hot' guys here. However, he put things in order quickly, since some clever soldiers nevertheless deserved to ask why these explanatory ones - to which they received an answer: they still fly in and a personal confession of a misconduct goes to the prosecutor's desk! And for some reason they suddenly wanted to serve. If the commander himself wants to put things in order, no "communality" will do anything for the commander in the order of the LAW, only one should not be afraid to apply it!

      You are absolutely right, Sanya!
      Wherever I served, if the commander was competent and knew his service and treated her with responsibility there was order !!
  19. Nechai
    +7
    10 December 2012 13: 03
    Quote: FAXI
    If the commander of the unit had washed up under the order to wash their floors, then 2 people left for the dizbat, and the rest washed, and they did not even remember about insulting their feelings !!!

    Quote: SAVA555.IVANOV
    What do you say officers ??

    Only two left:
    28th Separate Disciplinary Battalion (Odisb), Mulino Village, Nizhny Novgorod Region, Western Military District;
    36th Separate Disciplinary Battalion (Odisb), Kashtak Village, Chita Region, Eastern Military District;
    The Testament of June 28, 2011, true, but in the subject, it seems to me:
    "On Tuesday, the Separate Disciplinary Battalion No. 28 will celebrate its 25th anniversary (until 1986 it was a disciplinary company).
    The main contingent in the debate is those convicted under Article 335. This is an irregular relationship - hazing, in all its manifestations. There is also “theft,” “extortion,” “illegal abandonment of units,” a little less often, “desertion.” He refused to wash the barracks ...
    ... Caucasians - almost half.
    There are almost half of the representatives of the North Caucasus in the disbath, 96 out of 162. Most of them are Dagestanis. The statistics are actually alarming. About one million people are now serving in the Russian army. Of these, a little more than 20 thousand Caucasians - this is 2%. In the Mulino disbath, 42% of convicted highland soldiers.
    “We have no ethnic differences,” emphasizes Major Vitaliy Yudakov. - Here everyone is fighting and toilets, and lard is eaten under the same conditions. Friendship of peoples, so to speak, in miniature.
    On the territory of the disbat there is an Orthodox church and a prayer room for Muslims. On Thursdays, the convicts are visited by Father George and Father Vladimir, and on Fridays, Mullah Mansur Hazrat. "
    http://www.rusichi-center.ru/e/2458416-disbat-kavkaztsev-pochti-polovina
    1. +5
      10 December 2012 13: 10
      Quite right, but for this, the decision must be made by the leaders of the RF Armed Forces - DO NOT READ COMBATING VIOLATORS OF DISCIPLINEGUILTY OF COMMANDERS!
      If the violator is sure that the term of the sentence for the violation will increase and no one will "cover" him, the hazing will die by itself!
      1. SAVA555.IVANOV
        +4
        10 December 2012 14: 07
        Quote: d.gksueyjd
        -DO NOT COUNT STRUGGLE AGAINST DISCIPLINES, GUILDS OF COMMANDERS!

        The fight against violators is Pushkin’s direct responsibility, I agree !!!! laughing
    2. SAVA555.IVANOV
      -2
      10 December 2012 14: 05
      And that would go out pale from there)))))
  20. tverskoi77
    +4
    10 December 2012 13: 11
    The Ministry of Defense needs to respond in a similar way: to issue a monthly bulletin, where to keep statistics on the killed, raped, maimed, robbed, etc. people in civil society. Beautifully describe the actions of suicides, pedophiles, pederasts, describe the life of drug addicts, downed pedestrians, the actions of office shooters and all that.
    Then it will become clear who the army itself gives society and what is actually the matter.
    1. SAVA555.IVANOV
      +1
      10 December 2012 14: 33
      Quote: tverskoi77
      Then it will become clear who the army itself gives society and what is actually the matter

      For thirty people, one platoon and three sergeants, is it not enough ?!
      1. tverskoi77
        +1
        10 December 2012 15: 48
        You do not understand me! My idea is that crime and other negative manifestations are in our entire society and only in the NUMBER in the army.
        The fundamental difference lies in the possibility of a civil organization to get rid of or simply not to take a "difficult" person, and the army is obliged to call everyone in a row (except for the physically incapable) to the service.
        1. SAVA555.IVANOV
          +5
          10 December 2012 15: 56
          How can the commander outwit the enemy if he cannot find an approach to his soldiers, when you have to run across the field and shout "Hurray!" passed, but even then it was necessary to think with his head how best to carry out the order.
          1. tverskoi77
            +1
            10 December 2012 21: 14
            It is difficult to talk with you, it seems that you are a deputy of any local Duma) Your comments on a completely different topic!
            But I will answer you: by the way, hazing (or the relationship between calls) is precisely the system in which the commander has a very good approach to the personnel. Naturally not through platoon or sergeants, but through senior prizes. Moreover, in some cases, it is the system of relations between appeals that maintains proper order.
            1. SAVA555.IVANOV
              +1
              10 December 2012 21: 39
              [quote = tverskoi77] Such redundant systems were everywhere, so to speak "shadow". For example, the cops have all sorts of "authorities".
              1. tverskoi77
                -1
                10 December 2012 23: 02
                and whom or what is the relationship between the calls duplicating? in your opinion
                1. SAVA555.IVANOV
                  +1
                  11 December 2012 12: 32
                  tverskoi77 "And who and what" that is, officers (subordinating other soldiers to himself) and performing their (officers) duties. And the relationship between calls is a trifle, if an officer is an officer.
                  1. tverskoi77
                    0
                    11 December 2012 16: 00
                    Without the consent of the officers, there will never be a relationship between a senior and a junior prize. Unless of course the Officer is not an Officer at all.
                    And these unspoken interactions themselves, unfortunately, do not duplicate the statutory order, but replace it. Either the Charter or hazing.
                    You can compare hazing with SRO (self-regulatory organization).
                    PS Of course, I’m only talking about junior and senior prizes, and not about crime that takes place in the army.
                    1. SAVA555.IVANOV
                      +2
                      11 December 2012 16: 26
                      Opinions can be endlessly. But we must strive so that the soldiers coming from the Army and the Navy excitedly talking about the service periodically admiring the Fathers-commanders, the battalion commander was called "Battey", the company commander was respected, the platoon commander was in "fire and water" a respected person soldier Then honor and respect. And from the bottom of my heart, and the spit in the package and the bottle according to tradition, with the understanding that the regime food is regime.
                      1. tverskoi77
                        +1
                        11 December 2012 17: 58
                        Hazing does not diminish the officers' authority over conscripts. Moreover, any spirit eventually becomes a grandfather)
                        Officers should not deserve their authority by fighting hazing, but deserve sober decisions, concern for personnel, combat training, and control of the situation.
                        Although, most likely, one year of service will equalize the difference in calls and will only need to act according to the Charter. And here competent sergeants will already be required.
      2. +1
        10 December 2012 22: 06
        Quote: SAVA555.IVANOV
        For thirty people, one platoon and three sergeants, is it not enough ?!

        I served - for 60 soldiers and sergeants there were 40 officers wink
        1. SAVA555.IVANOV
          +1
          10 December 2012 22: 12
          And most importantly, who was guarded !? wink
  21. +26
    10 December 2012 13: 23
    he served 98-00 in the railway, by the type of troops it is clear that there were enough people from the Caucasus, about 30 percent of the total number of people (there were parts where 90 percent, the so-called black battalions)

    it was a complete mess, until the Caucasians decided not to run into 2 officers, the result was very interesting - the officers of the Russians were sent to the pigsty at night (moreover, there was no work there), and a group of athletes with fittings came to the company and treated everyone who was in the barracks: ) I myself heard this "bell ringing" in person in the barracks on the floor below, when some tried to protect themselves from the bed with arches.

    total in the morning - 3-4x to the hospital, the rest with abrasions, etc. They came running to complain, the unit commander said that I don’t know what, the officer on duty didn’t see anything, it’s you yourself, each other. Moreover, how could civilians beat you if the door was closed in the barracks, or you kept the door open in violation of the charters? (it should be noted - the duty dag on the company, he opened the door himself, without even looking into the peephole who is behind the door)
    --
    About 3 months in a part there was an order, then again the rights to download began again. Again, we ran into my company and one of those 2 officers about which it was mentioned above during the dismissal. Officers come and see that the drunk in death of Dagi at the station square throw bulls and bottles (I just don’t need fairy tales from the category - the Dagestanis don’t drink, they don’t eat fat - and they drank and fat in the copter ate only on the way) .. well, the officers are here and explained to them that it’s worthless for a soldier to do so in a leave of absence. Dzhigits gathered gobies lips by the way. What is funny - then the grandmother came to the unit and made a complaint that tyrants officers offended the soldiers. The case was hushed up (not because the commander of the unit was brave, quite the contrary, the officers were not simple - one athlete, the other with great combat experience (he was transferred to the railway from other military branches)).

    Silence again for a while

    --
    Someone will say cruelly, but I think that's right. They understand the current power, and those who respect the power. It should be noted that in part the order was not in all companies, but where exactly these 3 officers were (in the other 3 companies there was complete horror). Any soldier for these 3 officers would have torn anyone, for they saw that they were not leaving their own.

    Then a new unit commander came, a preventive conversation was held with the Caucasians (after which 2a dzhigits fled from the unit), and more or less order came in all companies. Moreover, he forced the young officers to participate in this conversation so that they knew how to behave with soldiers from the villages.

    Also, through good acquaintances, a Dagestan was sent to the unit with higher education and sports training, who became a senior sergeant in the company, where Dagestanis were most numerous - he kept order strictly, and notice the Russians in the company did not suffer much. Surprisingly, I even became friends with him, maybe simply because my parents were adequately raised and given a good education, unlike most others.

    By the way, I don’t know how it is now, but at 98-00 from the Caucasus, conscripts were 23-25 ​​years old on average, our views on our 18 and summers are completely different outlooks on life, and even stronger, because 5-7 years of difference is a lot.
    1. +6
      10 December 2012 13: 33
      Clueless,
      I also remember the case we had in the army, a soldier from Central Asia sent a captain officer to hell, so he put this soldier in one blow ...
    2. Starksa
      -1
      10 December 2012 22: 36
      excellent, just the way it should
      1. +2
        10 December 2012 22: 56
        Quote: StarkSA
        excellent, just the way it should

        And he went to trample the zone for at least 3 years, regardless of all ranks and titles, and if you break something else or tear off the spleen, for example, you’ll also work on the headstock for him. Trust with our military-judicial system the officers will be planted faster than fighter. For prosecutors this will be a big plus in the work !!!
  22. david210512
    0
    10 December 2012 13: 29
    alexneg,totally agree with you
    good
  23. +2
    10 December 2012 13: 30
    Remember the TV series "Soldiers". The show itself was very interesting, but what I didn't like was the hazing that was included in this film. On the one hand, the truth of life, on the other, it can be said to promote hazing.
  24. 8 company
    +2
    10 December 2012 13: 58
    There are 3 problems that need to be addressed:
    1. From time immemorial, the prosecutor’s office in Russia has acted on the instructions of the authorities, and not strictly according to the law.
    2. The commander for the detection of a war crime in his unit / unit should not be punished, but encouraged.
    3. to create separate "national" units for Caucasians. A "wild" division, as under the tsar, with tough competitive selection for it.
    1. tverskoi77
      0
      10 December 2012 15: 49
      Briefly and accurately!
    2. 0
      10 December 2012 16: 59
      Quote: Company 8
      to create separate "national" units for Caucasians. A "wild" division, as under the tsar, with tough competitive selection for it.

      I agree, but the regions further away at the place of deployment. Kamchatka, Siberia, Far East. At the same time, they will look at the country from the wagons. Only commanders also recruit from fellow countrymen?
      1. thatupac
        -1
        11 December 2012 01: 22
        The Far East has long been famous for its "black" parts. Were already taken out.
  25. qwertynsan
    +4
    10 December 2012 14: 01
    The order in the barracks is 98% dependent on the company and sergeants. And if you do not dissolve from the very beginning of the service, then there will be no mess until the demobilization.
  26. boris.radevitch
    +1
    10 December 2012 14: 07
    Hazing is our grief but this grief can be defeated! hi
    1. +2
      10 December 2012 17: 00
      Quote: boris.radevitch
      Hazing is our grief

      This is not grief. Woe is idiocy and criminality. A normal mentoring relationship of a more competent specialist to the ward is a normal specificity.
  27. +3
    10 December 2012 14: 38
    Quote: Company 8

    There are 3 problems that need to be addressed:
    1. From time immemorial, the prosecutor’s office in Russia has acted on the instructions of the authorities, and not strictly according to the law.
    2. The commander for the detection of a war crime in his unit / unit should not be punished, but encouraged.
    3. to create separate "national" units for Caucasians. A "wild" division, as under the tsar, with tough competitive selection for it.

    To this I want to add a competitive selection for Caucasians - passing an exam at the military enlistment office on the quality of washing floors.
    Who did not surrender, do not take in the army. I think the number of people wishing to join the army in the Caucasus will decrease.
    1. Lakkuchu
      0
      10 December 2012 18: 01
      Quote: rapid1934
      To this I want to add a competitive selection for Caucasians - passing an exam at the military enlistment office on the quality of washing floors.
      Who did not surrender, do not take in the army. I think the number of people wishing to join the army in the Caucasus will decrease.

      That's right. After all, the main thing in the Russian army is what? To the floors and toilets shone, and military training is the tenth thing.
  28. +3
    10 December 2012 15: 20
    I am not catching up with something. Do we have one-man command in the army? And the responsibility of the commander for the actions of subordinates? Or pioneer camp "I'm not guilty, he came himself"?
    Of course, the command staff is responsible for this. And not only the lowest.
    And it turns out interestingly - the Minister of Defense should answer for all subordinates, including clerks, and the regiment commander should not answer for his subordinates.
    They say correctly - theft in a defense mine - let the minister answer. Hazing in the unit - let the unit chief answer. Moreover, theft is not a murder. There is less responsibility for it. But for death in parts of hazing - in all severity of the law. From top to bottom.
    1. thatupac
      -1
      11 December 2012 01: 24
      Well, the bosses were planted, fired. And who in the end will put the rioters of soldiers in place? Other losers from among the officers or what?
  29. SAVA555.IVANOV
    0
    10 December 2012 15: 43
    Quote: homosum20
    They say correctly - theft in a defense mine - let the minister answer. Hazing in the unit - let the unit chief answer. Moreover, theft is not a murder. There is less responsibility for it. But for death in parts of hazing - in all severity of the law. From top to bottom.

    Who is there to answer you know what kind of govnisty there are minus-avenging !!! bully
    1. +1
      10 December 2012 15: 57
      Sava! Why are you so worried: "Minus ... minus ..."? Do you want to go back from generals to colonels?
      ... "how filthy they serve there ..." Where is "there"? What are YOU doing here, then?
      1. SAVA555.IVANOV
        +1
        10 December 2012 16: 07
        TRex And what is a site for corrupt cops and those who want to get officers' apartment "for a gift", yes! ?? An article on a serious topic officers have nothing to snap back, and then ordinary people have to prompt you, you yourself are not in control, so we climb the whole world to advise laughing For example, if it's not a secret now where do you work?
        1. +2
          10 December 2012 16: 41
          The topic is very serious and, I assure you, it was on the agenda 30-40 years ago. Personally, I did something to save the aircraft from this infection, but the point is not that one of the officers should be dismissed, demoted, expelled from service, etc. In my opinion, Frunze said: "The army is a piece of society." If we have bandit laws, "godfathers" and big money stolen from the people, how can there be order in the army? Moreover, we have lost a whole generation of officers - since the 90s we have been fighting on our own territory, modernizing, experimenting, cutting, cutting, betraying, stealing ... Where does the staff come from if the army has already been trampled in ...? Who will serve there, when only yesterday captains and majors were kicked into civilian life without apartments, without pensions? Who will go there - when yesterday the army was led by the former director of the furniture department with his chicks, and the people laughed at these "military parades"?
          I don’t need about fitter-masons who are not given apartments, poor ones .... Go on, serve with mine, live where there are no one except the military, where you will not see a living woman for several months, when you can’t get out of the company for days. ...
          Do you have the moral right to "advise the whole world" to me, a professional in your field? Do not be offended ...
          I work as a boss, in an enterprise ... where - I won’t say ... retired, lieutenant colonel, POR veteran. Sincerely.
          1. SAVA555.IVANOV
            +2
            10 December 2012 17: 10
            A thousand apologies! For harsh statements, the whole point is that I'm kind of preparing the "soil" for my son, that is, when he goes to the Army and most likely to the Navy, so that by that time, remembering that society does not forgive slobs, the commanders were preparing by that time really warriors, and what I know I will teach.
            So shift the hazing situation to the enterprise, it will turn out very funny, so why is there no such thing in civilian life?
            At the expense of women, there are such professions in "civilian life" that are no different from military service in peacetime, isolation, is difficult for all normal people)))
            Personally, I don’t have it, We have been here (on the site) for a long time not to "roll a barrel" against each other. Although my position is "guys fight sometimes", no offense, please. Mutually.
        2. 0
          10 December 2012 20: 41
          Why are you so worried about these apartments? On Independent military with apartments thrown, now the toad strangles? During the Soviet Union, my father served 9 years in Ukraine, many of my schoolmates stayed there, almost all of them became officers, almost all of them have already quit due to low pay, so there is no need to describe here how well you are there. After the shortening of the term of service, the non-regulation did not decrease, in addition, sometimes officers do not have legal means of effective influence on the personnel, a lot depends on the commander, on the prosecutor's office, and where the smart officers come from if they climb up through bribes, if we have a "reform" and comfortable commanders are needed, without their own opinion, doing any nonsense, let down from above? Platoon and company commanders live in barracks, but what they have been tearing apart for so long and persistently cannot be restored one by one "will" from above.
          1. SAVA555.IVANOV
            0
            10 December 2012 21: 46
            Tupolev-95 Themselves described what kind of assholes go to the Army, and what kind of allowance do they need 2000 euros ?? !!)))) Go to the factories, you become socially useful, we have no "bullying" we will not cheat you lol
            1. thatupac
              -3
              11 December 2012 01: 27
              You, deer, didn’t contact closely with the Caucasians at all. You’re scribbling an Internet hero here. Some kind of clown ...
              1. SAVA555.IVANOV
                +2
                11 December 2012 12: 41
                Dimka is a moron laughing So tell me how you "CLOSELY Tied" can I and you should not answer, "zapadlo" will be lol
            2. +1
              11 December 2012 22: 06
              You don't have enough health to cheat us, but there are enough shitters everywhere. In our country, they are mainly in "grain" positions, but there are also normal officers who know their job and do not let anyone get off the hook, including Caucasians. I did not find Ukrainians in the army (I have been serving since 1998), but one acquaintance of the chief of staff of the SME said that he had fighters from Ukraine under the Union, called them "smart-ass", he knows better. By the way, I managed to work at the plant.
              1. SAVA555.IVANOV
                +2
                11 December 2012 23: 17
                Tupolev-95 Probably I know your chief of staff, a shirt-guy, unbuttoned soul and so sincere that you fall into emotion when you listen to him, but don’t "boil" al jokes do not understand hi
                1. +1
                  12 December 2012 15: 14
                  I apologize if it was harsh, but for some reason all the older generations believe that the younger ones are weaklings and loafers (here she is hazing) I entered the military school when they didn’t pay a salary for the army for half a year, after graduation I arrived in the Amur Region for distribution, received 1,5 thousand rubles, while I was told: do not spend everything, next month there will be no salary, 1 thousand I immediately gave to the room (all busy, live wherever you find), it’s good to at least stay at the allowance, or to steal I would have to eat. Many lieutenants then immediately scribbled a report on dismissal, but many remained and those who survived the reform of the stool still serve their own high-level dd since 2012. they deserve it.
  30. cobra
    0
    10 December 2012 16: 10
    Hazing was even in the Bundeswehr until the Germans found a simple solution: three companies of one battalion were placed in different barracks, excluding their contacts, and soldiers of the same conscription served in each company. In this case, one company was considered training, and the other two combat. With such a system, hazing is simply nowhere to come from. But then the Germans ...
    1. 0
      10 December 2012 22: 31
      That's about fighting. Not Suvorov, did he say that the army is at a standstill, behind a fence, it is not an army.
  31. +2
    10 December 2012 16: 13
    The order in the unit begins with sergeants and officers. If they are interested in discipline, it will be, and if the maintenance of order is shifted onto the shoulders of the "old-timers" (however, where does the "old-timers" come from with a service life of 1 year) and withdraws themselves, then it will turn out as in the famous saying: ...
  32. +3
    10 December 2012 16: 29
    He served in 82-84, after graduation. PribVO Air Force headquarters, commandant platoon, squad leader. Service, which is called "every other day, on the belt". Hazing, in the current sense, was not, that is, no washing, no hemming, no filling of beds for old-timers and God forbid - a scuffle. However, in fairness, I will say that within the framework of the charter, you can cheat so that any "hazing" seems like honey. If you wish, I can give specific examples.
    1. 0
      10 December 2012 17: 04
      Quote: Garrin
      If you wish, I can give specific examples.

      Not worth it. Most of those who are here are aware of the difference between statistism and anniversary. Just where do the right amount of normal guys in the army come from with our education, the culture of patriotism in the media?
      1. +1
        10 December 2012 17: 15
        Quote: Drednout
        Not worth it. Most of those who are here are aware of the difference between statistism and anniversary. Just where do the right amount of normal guys in the army come from with our education, the culture of patriotism in the media?

        I agree. On this and did not lead. Now I know many wonderful young people who could make up the army elite, but, unfortunately, all of them are "otmazed" from the army by their parents. It's a shame. Could have made excellent officers.
  33. cobra
    +2
    10 December 2012 17: 18
    Belarus is almost a mono-ethnic and small country. The armed forces are equipped according to the terriotrial principle, with the exception of border guards and special operations forces. The soldier has a strong connection with civilian life. Every weekend there is an opportunity to meet with parents or friends, who can always be told about problems. But problems are easier to solve from the outside, and not from the inside of a military unit. And although they serve 1,5 years, there is practically no problem of hazing. This is also a way out - let them serve near the house.
  34. Volkhov
    +1
    10 December 2012 19: 36
    It is necessary to create 2 armies - one for the normal, another for the bad and in the military enlistment office immediately ask - who do you want and where? In a normal army there will be order in order not to fall into a stupid one, and in a stupid one there will be a convoy of normal ones, which in turn will not want to be a stupid one ...
    So in general, it always was, only a stupid army was called a disbath, a colony, and there were difficulties in translating, but we must call it an army and sort it out as necessary.
  35. thatupac
    +3
    10 December 2012 19: 55
    And what is so bad about community members? We Russians need to learn from Caucasians and Buryats how to serve. They do not humiliate their own through hazing, if they have not been caught on mopping, theft or snitching. For the most part they serve excellently and with dignity. And we have all sorts of sychevs for heroes. Well done Caucasians and Buryats. He himself served with the Caucasians and I know what I'm talking about.
    1. +3
      10 December 2012 20: 34
      Quote: thatupac
      Well done Caucasians and Buryats.

      Caucasians and Buryats never strongly conflicted, because there and there everyone stood for each other, and ours each for himself !!!
      1. 0
        10 December 2012 21: 51

        Well done Caucasians and Buryats.
        Caucasians and Buryats never strongly conflicted, because there and there everyone stood for each other, and ours each for himself !!!

        By no means, everything depends on the percentage of Caucasians and Buryats (if in one unit) and also on (in units where all the nationalities of the Russian Federation are present) how much the Slavs do not want to bend to semi-literate national minorities (the last phrase does not apply to military units).
    2. 0
      10 December 2012 21: 32
      And what is so bad about community members? We, Russians, need to learn from Caucasians and Buryats Well done Caucasians and Buryats. He himself served with the Caucasians and I know what I'm talking about.
      I didn’t say anything for the Buryats, and only (they almost do not differ from the Mongols with whom I communicated for 4 years), about the inhabitants of the Caucasus and the Transcaucasian republics (USSR), as well as representatives of the Central Asian part of the USSR, a personal opinion: good comrades and colleagues (when on equal terms ), the best "friend" I will do everything in a cake, I will be smashed by my mother, I swear (when he depends on you), they will have you at every opportunity - build in any number of ranks, put in any pose just out of the desire to show your own steepness (if you depend on him or you owe him), if you break him (bend) excellent "what will you please, master?"
  36. gladiatorakz
    +5
    10 December 2012 21: 26
    Commit suicide in the army belay because of pretensions - what kind of character do you need to have? Or have nothing at all? Weapons are full around. I took it - I solved the enemy. It's the same with Caucasians (if they become impudent). And why can't the Russians unite and help their own? I was shocked by the video when I fought with Caucasians on the parade ground (1 to 3 according to my estimates), and the Russians stood on their side and were "sick". And how they were "sick" - they were even afraid to shout for their own.
    It is necessary to introduce again the practice of popular fist fighting. "Wall to wall". To revive the Spirit ...
    1. SAVA555.IVANOV
      +3
      10 December 2012 21: 52
      Dimka-thatupac, we will appoint a trainer for young deer, he’s ruffy and able to stand up for himself and others, he’s smart as Lomonosov))))))))))))
      1. thatupac
        -4
        11 December 2012 01: 30
        You’ll need a point in the middle of the toilet for your tongue. But he refused, then he worked in a distant location after lights out. Fact.
        1. SAVA555.IVANOV
          +4
          11 December 2012 10: 53
          Quote: thatupac
          You’ll need a point in the middle of the toilet for your tongue. But he refused, then he worked in a distant location after lights out. Fact.

          About sore! ?? Probably hard for you! ?? And how often did you become an actor ??? laughing
          1. Denzel13
            +3
            11 December 2012 12: 02
            Quote: thatupac
            You’ll need a point in the middle of the toilet for your tongue.


            He recalls himself in the service.
            1. SAVA555.IVANOV
              +1
              11 December 2012 12: 44
              "Chases" !!! "Dust" on the site !!! laughing
    2. +3
      10 December 2012 22: 38
      Quote: gladiatorakz
      To commit suicide in the army belay because of accusations - what kind of character should you have?

      From the book "The Hero's Way" V. Shlakhter
      What is typical for people with an inferiority complex screaming at heart? It is always necessary at the expense of something else to try to exalt oneself. How do ethnic Russians try to exalt themselves? We, they say, are lazy, weak, cowardly, but sometimes we are jammed and then our patience bursts, and the Russian rebellion becomes meaningless and merciless. But, as a rule, a completely opposite picture occurs. As practice shows from the analysis of ethnic hazing and many other parameters, nothing of the kind. No explosion follows. Patience is rubber and unlimited. Patience brought up by religion, education. How many cases when a Russian person, soaked to the extreme, hangs himself or cuts his own veins. But there are almost no cases when a Russian person, driven to despair, imprison a carnation on the wall and gently stick it in the throat or in the eye of the offender. I have never heard of such cases. And about the fact that they are fleeing en masse from part from beatings and oppression, such cases are the sea. The question arises. Perhaps it is better to make their enemies run away? But this is beyond the power. You can commit suicide, but deal with enemies - no. Why? And because from childhood, from birth, the fear of active, aggressive actions has practically been instilled. You can’t act, you can’t fight. You can do harm to yourself, you can’t fight.
      But the comrade is right. We have about 30 percent probably, if not more. I won’t quote further. I don’t completely agree with him.
      1. thatupac
        -3
        11 December 2012 00: 35
        You stick a nail in the eye - and on the bunk with life spoiled to the end. Drop dead ...
        1. gladiatorakz
          +4
          11 December 2012 10: 56
          Quote: thatupac

          You stick a nail in the eye - and on the bunk with life spoiled to the end. Drop dead ...

          Here everyone makes a choice. And humiliation can just spoil life more than bunks.
        2. SAVA555.IVANOV
          +1
          11 December 2012 12: 48
          Quote: thatupac
          You stick a nail in the eye - and on the bunk with life spoiled to the end. Drop dead

          Like that joke "Something guys I don't see one-eyed among you" laughing
  37. 0
    10 December 2012 21: 48
    Different people come to the army, of different social strata, beliefs and upbringing, and only the will of the commander, unit commanders and intelligent sergeants can keep the situation under control (engage in combat training and service the troops, and not search for SOCHints and "persuade hot" Finnish "guys" from the Caucasus ... using all kinds of (legal) methods, including the parents of the soldiers ...
  38. +1
    10 December 2012 22: 00
    However, after the arrival of a new commander, Colonel Alexander Ivanovich Novkin, the situation changed radically

    The article is not unambiguous. There is a lot of truth, a lot of objective, but a lot of non-objective, so it is done to impose their own "truth".
    But this quote about Colonel Novikov caught my eye. Everything in the army depends on the commander, depends on the officers. There were always units in the army, in the presence of all the communities and hazing, where there was lawlessness, but there were where it was not. I served urgently with both Chechens and Dagestanis, the guys are certainly tough, if there are more than 3 of them, if they are allowed it, it is in them nature. But it's not about them, it's about the officers, it's about the fathers of the commanders. The commander of the unit is a question of discipline, a round-the-clock question, a time-consuming question, he completely delegates to his deputies, those to officers of lower rank, and so it comes to the ensign, who also does not have time for this question, and as a result, this question is left to the mercy of the senior officers. And then the question of luck, if the guys there are adequate, then everything goes relatively well. But the army has all the advantages and disadvantages of society. In any team, even in the brigade, there is a person about whom they say: Thank God that you are not the boss. In the same brigade, he is unlikely to advance anywhere, i.e. there is any kind of selection. In the army, this is not possible, this very "copy", sooner or later will become an old-time servant, thus to whom the issue of discipline was given along a chain of a unit commander ... ... ... a foreman, an old-time servant. And here comes lawlessness - bullying, perversion, crippled lives, death.
    To the officer, colonel, commander Novkin, my respect and respect. Only such people can change the situation in the army. And the commanders of units where this chaos exists must be driven out of the army because he either does not want to work (serve) or cannot.
  39. Yarbay
    +4
    10 December 2012 22: 35
    *** “Since, according to Caucasian customs, a man is considered humiliating to have sex, *** - there is no such tradition in the Caucasus !!!
    It's humiliating if you were forced to do it!
    1. thatupac
      -4
      11 December 2012 00: 37
      Everything is simpler: floors in the Army wash suckers, perfumes, wimps. That Caucasians and do not want to subscribe to it. And then you take a mop so, purely in a brotherly way, and then you will hang out with all the service with it. Anyway, the unit has its complaisant comrades. You can try to score for wet cleaning.
    2. nickname 1 and 2
      +1
      11 December 2012 00: 45
      Quote: Yarbay
      It's humiliating if you were forced to do it!
      - sorry!
      And in 64gg why washed? (not of their own free will!)

      or do you mean = it’s your turn to wash, wash - voluntarily, do not run into compulsion to humiliate! So?
      1. Yarbay
        +3
        11 December 2012 01: 33
        Quote: nick 1 and 2
        or do you mean = it’s your turn to wash, wash - voluntarily, do not run into compulsion to humiliate! So?

        You did not understand my thought !!
        In what I wrote it is important that this is a made-up tradition, there is no such tradition !!
        Dmitry is in many respects right !! Many going to service go like a war and set themselves the goal not to break, as in prison !!
        These are criminal traditions that came to the army !!
        It’s humiliating if you fucked up and said that it’s not mine, but several people forced you or came and forced to do something !! This is everywhere I think, and not just in the Caucasus !!
        It’s just that over the years, it has already rushed into the minds of young people that washing a toilet is a mortal insult !! And in their village who clean their toilets ??? There are already a lot of nuances in this issue !!
        To a large extent, these are all criminal concepts that are stuck in the head!
  40. Romanskiba
    +2
    10 December 2012 23: 55
    I think so, there are two concepts of “hazing” - when a more experienced soldier teaches a new recruit, naturally there is a situation in which the young plows and the grandfather rests (the army is not a place for justice). But at the same time conveys the skills and understanding of the soldier's life. But there is a banal lawlessness, which includes all the negative (torture, humiliation and beating). But you need to understand that those who do this and in civilian life were scumbags! The army "bares" the inside of a man! You can pretend to be a good, or strong day, week, but not a year!
    About blacks. Lucky, served in white mouths.
    1. +3
      11 December 2012 00: 55
      I wanted to write about it, but you already said.
      They are thugs in civilian life, they manifest in childhood. The problem is that being a scumbag is cool now. Therefore, I am in favor of discovering and crushing such loafers in childhood as bugs.
      Somehow in the 90s, teenage gangs, frostbitten on their heads, appeared. They just attacked everyone on the street in broad daylight. Do you think the cops coped with them? Not a fig of this - the lads from Komsomolsk flew in from Dzhem (there was such an authority) and told our lads, who are for the "law" to fix the problem with the "wild". In short, very soon these frostbitten teenagers were not visible, it was not heard. Someone was taken to the bay to feed the crabs, and who was fucked ... well, you know, to what places certain lovers of this business from the zones.
      So it worked. Not tolerant, not democratic, and even by the hands of "criminals-reketers". And our cops can only chew snot, but sell drugs. They are cruel and merciless only towards ordinary citizens.
      Hence the problems and are drawn to the Army.
  41. Mr. Truth
    +2
    11 December 2012 01: 15
    This should be done by the military police.
  42. 0
    11 December 2012 18: 42
    Guys! In my opinion, I got into the discussion, but I will express myself. I served urgently in 83-85 in the Far East, but there was hazing (if you cannot stand up for yourself, as well as in civilian life), and if you are a man, then most likely they will be undone and will serve calmly. Well, they say that someone was killed, everything comes from a citizen, they kill more there. But kipesh raise current in the army! And where were you mothers and other helpers when they beat each other in the kindergarten and school (in the pussy you all hm - th)
  43. Misantrop
    +2
    11 December 2012 18: 48
    In our crew, the sailor who shouted the most about Anniversary and complained (and who was then written off to the coastal base) 3 months before the order received 2 years of disband. For beating a young sailor

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