Georgia and Russia: Saakashvili has already faded, but Ivanishvili has not yet begun to shine

38
I. The American view of Georgian democracy and the Russian “dictatorship”

At the end of November in the popular American online edition "The Daily Beast" An article by Eli Lake, who considers Georgia as the main ally of NATO, was published, but with sadness tells of the wrong Georgian democracy, which is about to be destroyed by numerous arrests.

Eli Lake is a correspondent for The Daily Beast and Newsweek, a specialist in national security. He previously wrote analytical articles for The Washington Times. This man lived for a long time in Cairo and visited the wars in Sudan, Iraq and the Gaza Strip. He is one of those journalists who tell the world the truth about Iraq, Iran and North Korea. Now Mr. Lake took up the Georgian question. He beats the alarm because Georgia, as it seems to him, is rapidly moving away from the ideals of American democracy.

The journalist describes the arrest of 7 in November by George Kalandadze, the chief of the joint headquarters of the Georgian armed forces. This senior officer, according to the analyst, was about to meet soldiers returning home from Afghanistan. But instead of a solemn ceremony in front of the cameras, Mr. Kalandadze was taken into custody and charged with physical violence against soldiers. He spent two days in prison. (The preliminary hearing on this case will probably take place on December 25. - O. C).

Mr. Kalandadze was the last link in the long chain of attacks on the party and the associates of Mikhail Saakashvili - the president of Georgia, who came to power in 2003 during the “rose revolution”. The Saakashvili government, the American journalist notes, was a darling of the West and an oasis in the post-Soviet region, where tensions with the United States grew due to the spreading influence of Russia, which is now oriented toward dictatorship.

In contrast to such countries as Armenia, Uzbekistan, Ukraine, the author continues, the Georgian government openly opposed the expansion of Russian influence in the region, seeking to establish a defense and economic partnership with the United States and Europe. Georgia sent its military contingent to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. And Saakashvili called the famous Senator John McCain his personal friend.

But the trouble is: in his own country, says the journalist, the brilliance of Saakashvili began to fade. But ultimately, this tarnishing may undermine Georgia’s relations with the United States. Now, oppositionists accuse the president of using the same Soviet-style tactics against which he fought. Here and listening to the phone of young oppositionists, and arrests of political activists. Against this background, Saakashvili’s party lost its votes in the October elections, and the Georgian Dream coalition, led and financed by billionaire Bidzina Ivanishvili, won.

Undoubtedly, the elections were recognized as free and fair, but after all, as a result, the Georgian government can be broken in half. There was a situation in which Saakashvili, remaining president until the end of 2013, still controls the army and national security agencies. Meanwhile, his main rival and new prime minister, Ivanishvili, controls the Ministry of Justice. This ministry took up the purge of Saakashvili’s supporters: a whole wave of arrests took place, including the detention of Kalandadze. All this, of course, caused criticism from the EU and the US State Department, the author writes.

Senator McCain also worried about the undemocratic situation in Georgia. He said this in a private telephone conversation with the Georgian president.

John McCain conveyed in a recent interview to reporters: "He (Saakashvili) is very concerned about the actions taken by the new Prime Minister and the threats to people who served him earlier." And Saakashvili responded by saying that he was worried about “arrests, threats and other signs of lack of respect for democratic processes.”

As for the new government, Irakli Alasania, the current Minister of Defense of Georgia and a member of the Georgian Dream coalition, declares: “We are striving for transparency in this case and in all cases” (meaning, among other things, the arrest of Kalandadze). “With all due respect to Senator McCain,” added Irakli Alasania, “I think his assessment is wrong ...”

But Vano Merabishvili, the former prime minister and political ally of Saakashvili, continues Eli Lake, claiming that he, too, is under threat of prosecution and that he may face imprisonment. “This is a fundamental intolerance towards the opposition, the media and local governments,” he said.

But Alasania says in response that this is not the case, and says that one of the main reasons for the victory of his party in the elections is that the Georgians no longer trust the justice system formed under Saakashvili. What can I say? Indeed, the author writes, one of the first steps of the new parliamentary majority was the announcement of the re-investigation of a number of high-profile espionage cases in which the citizens of Georgia were accused of spying for Russia.

(It should be noted here that the Georgian parliament at the December 5 meeting approved list of persons who are declared political prisoners or persecuted for political reasons. In total, the list included 190 political prisoners and 25 politically persecuted. The first category included 11 convicts in the Enver spy case. Among the convicts are citizens of Georgia and Russia. The list also included Russian Ruslan Skrylnikov (sentenced to 2011 years in prison in 14; according to Georgian special services, Skrylnikov was a liaison between the GRU General Staff of the Russian army and the GRU residency in Georgia). Political prisoners were also declared 20 people convicted in the case of an attempted insurgency at a military base in Mukhrovani, which occurred in the spring of 2009. The servicemen declared insubordination to the authorities, but then agreed to surrender. According to the official version, a group of officers planned to lead troops to the capital and carry out a coup. The opposition, for its part, argued that the events in Mukhrovani were organized by the authorities, who wanted to divert public attention from the rallies held at that time in Tbilisi. Some other people are on the list. Parliament undertook to “as soon as possible” ensure the release of persons on the list from criminal responsibility or, as a last resort, “provide mechanisms so that they can use a fair court”).

Yet the recent arrests have caused serious concern in Washington. Senator Joe Lieberman said "The Daily Beast"that he is proud of how Saakashvili reacted to his defeat in the elections, but worries about how Ivanishvili behaves after the victory. “These last steps inspire a very big fear, and I hope that the new parliamentary majority will hand it back because this is not what the public wants ...”

Joe Lieberman, of course, is not a great connoisseur of Georgian public opinion, whose opinion should be considered valuable. If he, like Mr. McCain, as well as the analyst Lake, knew what the Georgian public wants, they would cry. The analyst would have sobbed so directly: for the price would be clearly expressed to all his analyzes. By the way, the last poll of Georgians was conducted by an American agency.

Ii. What do Georgians want

Nestan Charkviani ("Voice of America") spoke about the results of a survey conducted by the International Republican Institute (IRI) (American non-profit organization aimed at the development of political parties, civil society, free and fair elections).

It turned out something unpleasant for America - a democratic country, and if you listen to the above opinion of Mr. E. Lake, who does not accept the Russian "dictatorship" in the post-Soviet space, which includes Georgia.

The fact is that 83% of the residents of this very Georgia who participated in the survey fully support the dialogue with Russia. And only some small, insignificant percentages oppose the dialogue with the “dictator”: 11% partially support the resumption of the Russian-Georgian dialogue, 2% partially against it, 2% strongly oppose the dialogue, and 2% could not answer.

That is categorical opponents - only two percent.

The survey was conducted from 9 to 21 in November throughout Georgia, and 1500 adult citizens participated in it.

More than half of the respondents - 52% - expressed confidence that with the new government, Georgia would be able to improve relations with Russia, and another 34% believed in partial improvement of Russian-Georgian relations under the Ivanishvili government.

As for the democrats' favorite question of aggression in Russia, 23% of respondents said they did not expect a repeat of aggression from Russia, and 19% believed that the aggression was over, although they did not rule out its resumption. 47% of respondents are convinced that Russian aggression continues. 11% could not answer this question.

Mikheil Saakashvili declares that the population of Georgia will never want to again be under the influence of Russia. The country has experienced democratic processes, and the Georgian people appreciated the advantages of the democratic development of the state: “Georgia will not return back to the influence of Russia, because the people have already felt the taste of success, democracy, the process of change of power by democratic means, and this is what is called the European beginning. The people will not refuse from this development. Our policy is long-term development, peace and opportunities for all the inhabitants of the region. ”

According to the IRI study, 63% of respondents believe that Georgia is on the right path, 12% disagree. 25% did not decide on the answer.

As for the trust in state institutions, according to the IRI poll, the Georgian Orthodox Church holds the leading position (94% of answers). The Georgian army ranks second in public trust - 91%. The police trust 84% of respondents, then the parliament (82%), the government of Georgia (81%), the media (77%), the prosecutor's office (61%). According to the IRI November survey, the degree of trust in the presidential administration’s 48% dropped significantly, whereas in July, according to a similar study, the President was trusted by 69% of respondents.

At the same time, the majority of the population of Georgia still supports the country's entry into NATO. Integration of Georgia into the North Atlantic Alliance is fully supported by 65% of respondents, partially supported by 17%, partially opposed by 4%, and strongly opposed by 5%. 9% of respondents did not decide on the answer.

The IRI survey also showed that 92% of the population of Georgia is generally optimistic, 6% is neutral, and only 1% of respondents were pessimists.

92% are probably the people who advocate a dialogue with Russia. And those who expressed confidence in the survey that with the new government, Georgia would be able to improve relations with Russia - at least in part.

Iii. Comrade Lavrov's Expectations

The fact that Moscow expects concrete proposals from Tbilisi to normalize relations between Russia and Georgia, сказал on Tuesday last week, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

“The new authorities say they want to normalize relations with Russia,” Lavrov said. - We heard about it, actually, from the media. We want to understand exactly how they are going to do it. ”

As we see, the authorities of Georgia and the authorities of Russia, unlike Mr. Lake and Senator McCain, react correctly to the Georgian public sentiment, which was confirmed by a recent American poll. Only Georgia, as always, is late with specifics.

In addition, there will always be a weak link in the Georgian foreign policy designed in relation to Russia: South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The Georgian government continues to declare these territories as its own, although the overwhelming majority of them do not want to be Georgian citizens on passports.

Therefore, Comrade Lavrov stressed that "the statements of Georgia that South Ossetia and Abkhazia are occupied territories, do not contribute to the beginning of its dialogue with Russia without preliminary conditions." The minister also reminded that Russia was not the initiator of the breakdown of diplomatic relations: “There are no problems for us. The main thing is that we understand the context in which this (the resumption of dialogue) takes place. ”

If something moves in the relations of the two countries, it is due to the economic interests of Georgia. Nobody hides the importance of trade with Russia for Georgia. And as a billionaire Bizin is best known.

More than a month ago, Ivanishvili announced the appointment of a diplomat Zurab Abashidze as an emissary in Russia. “The situation is quite difficult, there was a senseless war, but many Georgians live and work in Russia,” B. Ivanishvili said. “I hope we will soon be able to return our agricultural products to Russia.”

Here is the key to dialogue. The Turks are great trade with the Iranians, changing the gold for oil, and at the same time raising their gold mining industry - and are not afraid of the shouts of Washington. Is Ivanishvili really unable to make the Georgians take oranges to Russia?

Comrade Lavrov, by the way, recently received a response from the Georgian side. Commenting on his statements, the State Minister of Georgia Paata Zakareishvili made a statement. According to him, Georgia did not set Russia no preconditions for the settlement of relations. He said: “Georgia has passed a law on the occupied territories and this is Georgia’s policy. Maybe the law repeal? It is excluded! I do not remember that the Georgian authorities stated in connection with the settlement of relations with Russia that we are talking with Russia with the position that it occupied territories. Russia, represented by Medvedev, said that the Georgians should take into account the reality that arose in recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Zurab Abashidze replied that preconditions are not the best form for restoring relations. I believe that the Georgian side did not set any conditions, and why Lavrov suddenly began to point out rhetoric, I don’t know. ”

Earlier, on November 21, Bidzina Ivanishvili stated that he was not going to visit Russia - precisely because of the position of the Russian Federation on Abkhazia and South Ossetia: "My visit to Russia will not take place for an elementary reason - as long as Russia has embassies in Abkhazia and Ossetia" .

So here the foreign policy line of Saakashvili continues. The position of the current government of Georgia on the “occupied territories” is what connects Ivanishvili and Saakashvili. And this is what pleases Mr. McCain and other Misters from Washington.

December 5 Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defense of Georgia Irakli Alasania gave an interview to 9 TV channel, where he said that Russia's position on Abkhazia and South Ossetia is counterproductive for itself (that is, for Russia). Moreover, in his opinion, Russia lost the struggle for the recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. This is not enough: Georgia has managed to develop a foreign policy in which Russia finds itself or is about to be cornered. Georgian Minister of Defense said: “We want to drive Russia into a corner so that it has to respond positively to our positive steps, and ignoring them would negatively affect its image.” He added that "the world will not agree with the situation created by Russia after the 2008 war of the year, and sooner or later Russia will have to fulfill its obligations to this effect."

As for the normalization of relations and dialogue with Russia, oranges are oranges, wines, wines, and national interests are ahead of everything: “Our task is to normalize relations with Russia, but not at the expense of our national interests. Reality, and the whole world recognizes this, that Russia has occupied a part of the territory of Georgia. ”

In general, and things are there.

Iv. What are some Georgians afraid of?

A) Revival of the USSR.

Yes, other Georgians fear the very “dictatorship” that the educated Americans in the field of democracy sing about. And the Russians will oppress the Georgians together with the Ukrainians. Friendship of peoples, brotherly bonds, can not be helped. Russia will drag Ukraine into the Customs Union, and that’s it, Georgia’s cover.

The international expert Tornike Sharashenidze thinks that way. If the Kremlin succeeds in introducing Ukraine into the Customs Union, there is a danger of the restoration of the Soviet Union. And this will further increase the pressure on Georgia, believes analyst.

“If Russia succeeds in introducing Ukraine into the Customs Union, we can assume that Russia has practically restored the Soviet Union - at least economically. The only ones who are not within the sphere of influence of Russia and do not submit to it are Georgia and Azerbaijan. ”


Panic in Sharashenidze caused recent words of Yanukovych. On December 5, the President of Ukraine, having met with the President of Russia in Ashgabat at the CIS Summit, said that Ukraine should join some of the provisions of the Customs Union. Comrade Yanukovych advocated for the very economy that Georgia should take care of: “We understand well, if we don’t find tools for cooperation with the Customs Union, we will lose a lot. That today it is unacceptable for the economy of Ukraine. ”

Georgia, obviously, considers it unacceptable not to lose. Sharashenidze even spreads his anxiety to Azerbaijan. According to him, if Russia returns Georgia to the sphere of influence, then “Azerbaijan will automatically follow. After all, he goes to the West mainly through Georgian territory. ” “So after that, we will have a stronger blow,” says the expert.

B) Bad will of Moscow.

If Tbilisi shows good will, пишет Sergi Kapanadze, the ex-deputy head of the Foreign Ministry of Georgia, then “only a thirst for more is visible from Moscow”. The analyst adds: "I remember the Russian style described by Western diplomats:" What is mine is mine, that yours can be negotiated. "

Now, according to Kapanadze, Moscow is simply waiting for Georgia to give way. "The Kremlin, in the traditional Russian style, is waiting for what else you can get for just starting a dialogue."

“Russia will certainly want Georgia to change the law“ On occupation ”, recognized that Russia is not an occupier, Abkhazia and South Ossetia were recognized as parties to the conflict, Georgia stopped active non-recognition policy, suspended activity in support of refugees in the UN and international organizations, opened the railway the line with Russia, and in general, took steps indicating that Georgia stops the "war" with Russia in defense of the country's sovereignty in the international arena. And this “war”, imagine, lasts almost four years after the August war. ”


A compromise here, the author says, is impossible.

But this is not enough for Moscow. She wants Georgia to slow down integration into NATO and the European Union. The analyst hopes that "the new government will not do this." However, if she does, then, “presumably, in four years she will have to move to the opposition, since the population of Georgia probably will not support a change in the pro-Western course instead of ephemeral Moscow promises”.

And Russia, the expert continues, wishes to resolve a number of minor issues:

“... the change of the name of the Ministry of Reintegration, the restoration of Russian channels in Georgian television space (which is already taking place step by step), symbolic steps, including the re-branding of the occupation museum and PIK channel, the release of arrested Russian citizens (including those suspected of espionage), the replacement of charter regular flights, and so on. The Georgian authorities, probably, can make concessions in these issues, but they should not be one-sided. It is necessary to determine what can be received in return, and how much the exchange will be worth. ”


What can Georgia bargain for in anticipation of unkind Russia?

First, the abolition of visas for citizens of Georgia. Secondly, the commitment of non-use of force against Georgia. Third, the suspension of recognition policy.

On the cola bast, start over.

B) Comrade Onishchenko.

As for the economy of Georgia, it is, of course, important, Kapanadze said, but he "is not sure that this step in the medium term will be as beneficial for the country's economy as the Georgian authorities consider."

“For small and medium-sized entrepreneurs, it is really important to enter the Russian market, and large exporters now feel pretty good in European and other neighboring markets, or already enter the Russian market through Belarus and Ukraine. Full reorientation of large exporters to the Russian market for the country's economy can be good in a short period, but, presumably, can lead to disastrous results if Onishchenko orders again to ban trade. ”


So, this is another Georgian fear. The appearance of Comrade Onishchenko. Well, reproach is fair - Onishchenko is a separately calculated risk factor in a business with Russia.

“It’s hard to imagine that the Georgian authorities do not understand this danger, especially since if our example is not enough, there is a recent political ban on trade with Moldova, Ukraine and Belarus, not to mention anything about“ prohibiting ”Onishchenko the entry of citizens from Tajikistan.”


What to do? The analyst sees no way out except for the “status-neutral approach.” This “way out” can be called a hopeless situation. Kapanadze writes:

“... This means that Georgia will continue actions related to the legitimization of the occupation, and Russia will seek recognition. Tskhinvali and Sukhumi will continue to strive for their “independence”, and Georgia - to work towards the restoration of territorial integrity.

Preservation of neutrality to status does not mean that we approve of all this and refuse territorial integrity: it only means that we "agreed that we could not agree." And after that, we should agree with Moscow, as well as with Tskhinvali and Sukhumi, that the confrontation linked with status should not affect relations between nations. Only after that we will be able to restore these relations, educational and trade relations. ”


It is clear that the conflict will not resolve such a “hopelessness”.

“No, they will not settle, but if all this is done correctly, they will turn the conflict into irrelevant. And irrelevant conflict is better than unresolved. ”


And the analyst fears that Russia will “hit” again on all that Georgia has achieved after 2008: “... on the Geneva talks, the WTO agreement, the EU observation mission, on the role of the EU mediation, the OSCE and the UN, and in general, our international support. "

In general, Russia, which seems to be an expert in the gloomy image of Comrade Onishchenko, with an unpleasant facial expression looking at a bottle of Saperavi, is far from the image of an ideal Georgian friend.

* * *


Thus, while Washington is looking gloomily at the new Georgian democracy, this very democracy is looking glumly at Russia. While Comrade Lavrov is waiting for answers from the new government of Georgia, some Georgians publicly voice their fears to their neighbor, who is known in the United States as a “dictator”. They are also afraid of the imminent revival of the USSR, for which Putin and Yanukovich, and the chief sanitary doctor of Russia, are about to speak, and that Moscow is only thinking about how to get more by harming non-brotherly Georgia and distancing it from its cherished dream of joining to nato. After all, where Moscow is approaching, NATO immediately moves away. As for wines and oranges, other Georgian experts hint that drinks and fruits can at any moment be a flexible political tool in the hands of an unpredictable Russian man named Onishchenko.

Observed and translated by Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
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    38 comments
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    1. WW3
      WW3
      +18
      10 December 2012 07: 47
      In general, Russia, which seems to be an expert in the gloomy image of Comrade Onishchenko, with an unpleasant facial expression looking at a bottle of Saperavi, is far from the image of an ideal Georgian friend.

      Article + The difference between Saakashvili and Ivanishvili is special - no, their policy was and will be directed against Russia, respectively, for such "friends" there is doctor Onishchenko ...
      1. +5
        10 December 2012 08: 01
        In my opinion, this was clear even before the election.
      2. botur2013
        +9
        10 December 2012 10: 22
        Such friends for ... uy and to the museum!
        1. 0
          10 December 2012 19: 05
          I think so, if Comrade Ivanishvili made himself not a small fortune in Russia (and this, as you know, is not done with white gloves!), Then our law enforcement officers simply have to have a chubby dossier on this citizen ... well, in case Benzina wants to rattle amer.weapon!
      3. +1
        10 December 2012 22: 03
        Quote: WW3
        Article + The differences between Saakashvili and Ivanishvili are special - no, their policy was and will be directed against Russia.

        They have one owner, but Ivanishvili's task will be more difficult than Saakashvili's, he simply stupidly embodied any wishes from Washington and gave his actions an aura of democracy. But Ivanishvili needs to be friends with Russia and push his goods and not quarrel with the owner from -for the arrests of the most "democrats" !! And the people need to like it in order to stay afloat, but the interests of the people and the Americans do not always coincide !!
    2. Gluxar_
      +2
      10 December 2012 07: 52
      The article is neutral, it simply describes the current vision of the situation from overseas. Unfortunately, so far the vassal country will not change anything.
      The only positive thing is that for some time Georgia will engage in internal disassembly, which will inevitably weaken US influence in this region. Everything will depend on the economic situation both within Georgia and in the USA.
      Will wait.
    3. donchepano
      +2
      10 December 2012 07: 59
      Arrogantly, the Saxons will do their utmost to harm Russia in the future and set up the CIS states against and to the detriment
    4. +1
      10 December 2012 09: 17
      US citizen asked for political asylum in Russia

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NEku7oyYUc

      at 1:22 about Ivanishvili
    5. Captain Vrungel
      +6
      10 December 2012 09: 19
      Who came to power? The owner of a large capital.
      Whose interests come first? Own.
      Who will serve? The people of Georgia? Georgia’s interests? No, to my interests.
      Who will be friends with? With a rich, less demanding donor.
      And while the owners of big capital will climb into power, the interests of the people, the interests of the state are secondary. The self-interest and the interest of the "family" come first.
      See Ukraine. True, the "guarantor" has more ambitions and is inversely proportional to the mind. Before that, I got everyone by jumping between the shores of the European Union and the Customs Union in search of where it is more profitable for my beloved, that I will have to stick to the shore where they will be allowed to go and on their terms.
      Capital makes politics. Politics works for capital.
      1. +4
        10 December 2012 11: 20
        In the field I agree with you Captain Vrungel. In addition, if the capital of Ivanoshvili lies with the amers in the bank, then he will soon dance to the tune of Amer, otherwise they will put something on his capital and he will not be able to withdraw. So, horseradish radish is not sweeter. hi
        1. -2
          10 December 2012 11: 23
          Quote: Simon
          In addition, if the capital of Ivanoshvili lies with the amers in the bank, then he will soon dance to the tune of Amer, otherwise they will put something on his capital and he will not be able to withdraw. So, horseradish radish is not sweeter.

          at the bank of Switzerland and Russia)
          always see the Americans :)
          it is necessary real)
        2. Captain Vrungel
          +2
          10 December 2012 11: 59
          In confirmation. NEWS . NEWSPAPER, UA.
          02.30-In Brussels, they will discuss the issue of Ukraine’s readiness to join E.S.
          09.12/XNUMX-Yanukovych goes to Moscow to talk about joining T.S.
          If two chairs bridge, you can fall between them.
          1. MG42
            +5
            11 December 2012 03: 18
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            If two chairs bridge, you can fall between them.

            This is the eternal position of an independent Ukraine, we are going to the EU with our heads turned back to the Customs Union - only in the EU Ukraine is also not expected. 20 years of independence have passed and no choice has been made.
    6. +2
      10 December 2012 10: 12
      83% of the residents of this very Georgia participating in the survey fully support dialogue with Russia

      I am glad that during the time of Saakashvile's "napalm", which was thrown on the heads of the poor Georgians, it was still not possible to erase the long-term fraternal relations of our peoples!
      And the analyst fears that Russia will “hit” again on all that Georgia has achieved after 2008: “... on the Geneva talks, the WTO agreement, the EU observation mission, on the role of the EU mediation, the OSCE and the UN, and in general, our international support. "

      Do Georgians consider all of the above ACHIEVEMENT?
      1. mda
        mda
        0
        10 December 2012 19: 30
        Quote: Wertynskiy
        Do Georgians consider all of the above ACHIEVEMENT?

        Looks like yes. Ask GEOKING95
    7. +8
      10 December 2012 10: 41
      And you, my friends, if you don’t get into musicians, you’re not fit.

      Georgia is very dependent on the United States. The owner of big capital came to power, which means the hostage of the financial soap system of the Fed. The peoples of both Abkhazia and South Ossetia will never agree to enter back into Georgia.
      If there is a command from America about military oppression of Abkhaz or Ossetian Ivanishvili, Saakashvili will follow the instructions of his "elder brother" - the United States, as it is closely dependent on them, both economically and politically.

      Personally, I do not expect very warm relations between Russia and Georgia, although I would very much like that. Until the "elder brother" of Georgian politicians leaves, this friendship will not exist! The United States will spare no money to continue to quarrel among themselves once friendly nations.
    8. +8
      10 December 2012 11: 35
      too much attention and importance is attached to relations with a non-state, the entire population of which is about 4 million people ... we must forget about them for 10 years ...
      1. +1
        10 December 2012 13: 20
        Quote: Krilion
        too much attention and importance is attached to relations with a non-state, the entire population of which is about 4 million people ... we must forget about them for 10 years ...


        The article is unambiguously positive. But is Tbilisi really paid much attention to Moscow ... it seems that no .. at least another year they will cook in their juice ... just the patient will be under observation
      2. yustas
        +1
        11 December 2012 10: 56
        Quote: Krilion
        too much attention and importance is attached to relations with a non-state, the entire population of which is about 4 million people ... we must forget about them for 10 years ...

        I agree, even if they completely take a sip of their freedom, do they have something in Georgia that we don’t have? we will somehow live without them, but Ossetians and Abkhazians will not surrender .... even if they don’t think ..
    9. 0
      10 December 2012 16: 15
      Yes, the same eggs only in profile.
    10. brush
      -1
      10 December 2012 16: 28
      I don’t know how and what is there, but the fact that Abkhazia and South Ossetia are the only territories that were forcibly torn away from one country by another during the entire existence of the CIS (do not consider Nagorno-Karabakh, because it is not a state and negotiations are underway on its status )
      Therefore, the CIS does not recognize these states.
      1. Lech e-mine
        +2
        10 December 2012 16: 33
        And it was correctly done.
        The Georgian government itself fell into a pile of manure.
        There was no need to spoil the neighbors.
        1. Yarbay
          0
          10 December 2012 17: 22
          Quote: Leha e-mine

          And it was correctly done.
          The Georgian government itself fell into a pile of manure.
          There was no need to spoil the neighbors

          Lech, and they, that is, Georgians, believe that this neighbor crap to them!
          1. +4
            10 December 2012 18: 22
            Quote: Yarbay
            Georgians believe that this neighbor crap to them!

            Hi Alibek! I try to restrain myself but sometimes it breaks through me Georgians live in this world thanks to this neighbor and they crap primarily by supporting the collapse of the union, after which the gamsakhurdia said that Georgia for the Georgians when it was slapped by Shevarnadze continued what he had begun, and the current half-wit imagines himself the head of an independent state with strong Allies result is obvious
            1. -4
              10 December 2012 23: 35
              Quote: Ruslan67
              Hi Alibek! I try to restrain myself but sometimes it breaks through me Georgians live in this world thanks to this neighbor and they crap primarily by supporting the collapse of the union, after which the gamsakhurdia said that Georgia for the Georgians when it was slapped by Shevarnadze continued what he had begun, and the current half-wit imagines himself the head of an independent state with strong Allies result is obvious

              wink thanks to this neighbor, the 18 century, the Turks almost destroyed us! when Peter I betrayed Vakhtang VI and spoke to the Turks from the territories!
              thanks to the Georgian of the USSR, it was the most powerful country!
              My grandfather didn’t fight for Russia for that, so that she would steal territories from Georgia and justify the genocide of Georgia in the 90's! Yes, we also had mistakes! and you come to Georgia and talk with immigrants from Abkhazia, more than 100 000 people! of which many Russians
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIHbkHgOdCw
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5crSTjCzHk
              Then talk about nobility! because of your government and nashoev too, a lot of people died and 80% we suffered!
              1. Misantrop
                +2
                10 December 2012 23: 44
                And how did the conflict in Abkhazia begin? Is it because the landing of proud eagles from "Mkhedrioni" staged a massacre in Pitsunda?
                1. 0
                  11 December 2012 13: 18
                  Quote: Misantrop

                  And how did the conflict in Abkhazia begin? Is it because the landing of proud eagles from "Mkhedrioni" staged a massacre in Pitsunda?

                  not a landing but at the railway station! Am I proud of the mkhedrions or something? it is a group All Georgia destroyed! and Russia supported Abkhazia armed them and the Russian landing was in Tamish (it was destroyed)! I’m not talking about ethnic purity against Georgians! (and Russian, too)) but what do you know about this warrior? you say this Chechen heroes of the Abkhaz warrior, but in fact that he did not create)
              2. +3
                11 December 2012 00: 32
                Quote: GEOKING95
                My grandfather didn’t fight for Russia for that, so that she would steal territories from Georgia and justify the genocide of Georgia in the 90s! yes with us

                No offense! I have nothing against Georgians but you wanted independence and independence? so scoop it up and be prepared for the fact that anyone who wants to gobble up you more is This is the law of big geopolitics as they say nothing personal Do you want an alliance with the West? dig bomb shelters because it is far away and Russia is near
                1. 0
                  11 December 2012 13: 13
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  This is the law of big geopolitics as they say nothing personal Do you want an alliance with the West? dig bomb shelters because it is far away and Russia is near

                  Well, believe the Russian government 1920 year, we abandoned the West and were neutral) well then the warrior began)
                  I'm not saying that 90's Sukhumi was lost when they believed your government)
                  Until 2008, we continued the term of Russian peacekeepers in Abkhazia and the Tskhinvali region! I’m not saying that our fault wasn’t, but if Russia wouldn’t fight against us and spread separatists in the 90’s or the 2008 year, then you would have an ally in the Caucasus)
                  everyone wanted even Russian independence) America used us, Russia is losing the Caucasus and America’s influence is growing)
                  1. yustas
                    0
                    11 December 2012 13: 24
                    Geokingxnumx,
                    If you wanted independence, so be independent, or else you sh ..... rush here and there who promises you more, but how hard it is for you to run to us, without your fault we will live without problems, as in without wine, but whether we need a neighbor and an ally ready to stab in the back is a big question. I have a classmate from Abkhazia, how many years have graduated from school, but we meet periodically, and we go to visit each other, so that I personally do not need to say how we won something from you there ...
              3. +1
                11 December 2012 13: 39
                бLagodorya Georgia USSR was the most powerful country!
                My grandfather didn’t fight for Russia for that, so that she would steal territories from Georgia

                Great! That is, thanks to the executioners Stalin and Beria, who destroyed the Russian people, it was the USSR that became the strongest, and during the Second World War, the great-grandfather of "Comrade GEOKING95" fought for RUSSIA. Here's to all of you. A selective approach, however ... Well, about Peter, I honestly did not understand anything at all.
                I think the most correct thing would be to “forget” about Georgia, as a comrade above “10 years” said, and at the same time “ask” all Georgians living in the territory of the Russian Federation to move to their historical homeland. Well, so that it does not turn out that they are also fighting for us, and that is why Russia is still alive.
                1. yustas
                  0
                  11 December 2012 13: 46
                  Quote: Shkodnik65
                  I think the most correct thing would be to “forget” about Georgia, as a comrade above “10 years” said, and at the same time “ask” all Georgians living in the territory of the Russian Federation to move to their historical homeland. Well, so that it does not turn out that they are also fighting for us, and that is why Russia is still alive.

                  +
                  And at the same time stop buying from them, what else we buy, let Europe buy ....
                2. 0
                  11 December 2012 14: 46
                  Quote: Shkodnik65
                  Great! That is, thanks to the executioners Stalin and Beria, who destroyed the Russian people, it was the USSR that became the strongest, and during the Second World War, the great-grandfather of "Comrade GEOKING95" fought for RUSSIA. Here's to all of you. A selective approach, however ... Well, about Peter, I honestly did not understand anything at all.

                  About the grandfather in the Russian empires served and the grandfather of the Second World War fought)
                  Quote: Shkodnik65
                  Well, as for Peter, I frankly did not understand anything at all.

                  Well, yes you are not taught)
                  Quote: Shkodnik65
                  Hello! That is, thanks to the executioners Stalin and Beria, who destroyed the Russian people, it was the USSR that became the most powerful,

                  ) they and Gruzinov killed a lot of them (Shot)! and that I did not tell the truth under the rule of Stalin, the USSR became a powerful country)
                  1. yustas
                    0
                    11 December 2012 17: 15
                    Quote: GEOKING95
                    they killed a lot of Georgians at all (Shot)! and that I did not tell the truth under the rule of Stalin, the USSR became a powerful country)

                    + of course, but why whine then that we are so bad, take a look at yourself!
                    BUT with regards to all, guys, maybe it’s not worth remembering the bad? it’s better to remember well how our grandfathers fought shoulder to shoulder and this is where our relations and confidence are built, we are neighbors, after all, and together it will be easier for us. But freaks ... they are everywhere enough, and the nation has nothing to do with it, we have one land and it makes no sense to share it !!! but from those who let it all down on us, it’s worth building a defense, but only together!
                    1. 0
                      11 December 2012 17: 28
                      Quote: yustas
                      + of course, but why whine then that we are so bad, take a look at yourself!
                      BUT with regards to all, guys, maybe it’s not worth remembering the bad? it’s better to remember well how our grandfathers fought shoulder to shoulder and this is where our relations and confidence are built, we are neighbors, after all, and together it will be easier for us. But freaks ... they are everywhere enough, and the nation has nothing to do with it, we have one land and it makes no sense to share it !!! but from those who let it all down on us, it’s worth building a defense, but only together!

                      I wrote there and we were mistaken, I agree with you too!
    11. +2
      10 December 2012 20: 19
      What do adults, big and strong, when little ones don’t obey, they behave differently ....
      They are not very smart, and then they blow their lips and make an offended look.
      Those who are smarter, first whipped, and then caressed, but sweet gingerbread ...
      It seems that defending their positions, one does not need to turn away from the simple Georgian people, but we still have embargoes, bans, Onishchenko, a closed border, etc.
      Budzina, Misheko, someone else ... - are we waiting for the Georgian politician to say, "yes, the war is our fault, Abkhazia and Ossetia are not our lands, forgive us, for..tsev, beloved Russia!" ???? well, it will never happen. And this is reality. Do we always need an enemy in the ilium? No. And if so, a simple Georgian needs some candy - let him come and work, let him bring his own wine, then he will look less to the west.
      And we are growing a generation that has almost forgotten the Russian language! And this is worse than the congressional American headphones.
      1. IGR
        IGR
        +1
        10 December 2012 22: 04
        It's nothing personal.
        "Don't give us your daughters for nothing, and don't give them money!"
        passed already.
        Nothing personal - just business. Already accustomed to Chilean wine.
        But what exactly is missing is precisely the hospitality, hospitality, and Georgian welcoming that I certainly miss very much.
        AND ABOUT! beggar is not at all involved.
    12. 0
      10 December 2012 20: 58
      The vast majority of Georgians look at Russia, just as a savior!
    13. +3
      10 December 2012 22: 03
      deeply shit .. what is Ivanashvili, Georgia and Georgians thinking there. In fact, the current state of affairs suits Russia
    14. 0
      11 December 2012 15: 39
      Where would Georgia be (without the Russian Empire), consisting of Persia or Turkey (as Adjara was), Thanks to Stalin, the collector of Russian (and not only) lands. Yes, and Ukraine after 1939 looks pretty good. Did the Poles forget about Gdansk and East Prussia?
      And Georgia is unique in that both the ruling elite and the opposition do not criticize the Americans, it can be seen from one feeding trough! But people don’t give a damn, almost Moscow prices in Tbilisi. The country does not produce ANYTHING. And the rest is a beautiful marquise ...
    15. 0
      11 December 2012 19: 13
      But there are no Serdyukovs, neither big nor small.
    16. F-22
      -1
      11 December 2012 21: 59
      You can arrange a provocation. Like a Korean Boeing, if you remember that. We are buying a private American (not applicable, American) passenger aircraft. Create an effective fmrma to which this aircraft is registered. In Russia, of course. We load it with the corpses of deceased homeless people and drug addicts and send it into the airspace of Georgia. Those naturally knock him down. But no one dies, as the plane is on autopilot. But the plane is filled to capacity with fuel (you can even stick it into the cabin in plastic bags) additionally. Explodes like a torch. Act 2. A wild howl will rise. Russia is in shock. The central channels show photographs of the "victims" made on "Photoshop". To enhance the effect, it is necessary to have more children. American experts (from the firm of the aircraft manufacturer) are also invited (in addition to Russian), they confirm, and where to go - that the plane was shot down. This gives the "commission" a semblance of legitimacy. RT and cyber partisans are connected to the game on the foreign front (it's a shame that we will be used in the dark, because we will not know anything, it smells like the power is holding us for the other, but in this case the end justifies the means), a massive information attack on the brain of the Western philistine.
      Act 3. Retribution. Georgia (especially writing with a small one) is struck by kr and MD missiles. Ordinary, of course. All air defense and other aircraft are destroyed. Then the Air Force comes into play. Aircraft from a great height finish off the surviving self-propelled air defense systems and, in general, everything that is possible. This way we can save the lives of our pilots. Missile strikes can be delivered from the territory of not only Russia, but also Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and also from the sea (see the cruiser "Moskva"). You can also connect strategic aviation, the range of their missiles allows bombing Georgia even from near Volgograd (see X-55). No amphibious or ground operations. Among the first to be hit is the studio of the notorious "First Caucasian"
      Act 4. Hell. After that, our plants, plants, power plants, sewage treatment plants, hospitals, schools, kindergartens (children will be young enemies will grow up with impunity, they will cause problems), passenger trains. Chaos and anarchy begin. Civil War. Meanwhile, the entire Georgian menagerie settled in Russia is loaded onto trains (in freight cars) and sent to their historical homeland.
      1. uhjpysq
        0
        15 December 2012 09: 37
        )))))))))))))))))) but why the heck still spend money. themselves will die.

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