Military Review

The Ministry of Defense issued new requirements for weapons and something else "on the little things"

67
In the previous article about the completion of the first AK-12 tests, I questioned that the refusal of tenders before adopting a new model is a very positive phenomenon. What was good before was unexpectedly a relic of the past, and even the specific requirements for individual firearms weapons The Department of Defense has been pushing lately. But not so long ago slipped news, that new requirements still give birth. And besides this “secret” Valery Gerasimov shared information about what to expect even in a military environment. Information, of course, scarce, but there is something to ponder.

The Ministry of Defense issued new requirements for weapons and something else "on the little things"


First of all, the Chief of the General Staff noted that the removal from office of Serdyukov does not mean that his reforms were completely bad and worthless. Naturally, something will be adjusted, but in general, everything will remain as planned. However, it is not yet known what will be changed and what will not. So it was noted that at the moment the main task will be the analysis of the education system and the military-scientific complex, and according to the results they will decide whether to change something or leave everything as it is. The results of this entire action can, of course, be predicted, but “wait and see.”

Regarding the requirements for new types of weapons, nothing concrete was said either. It is known that they are, that they are quite feasible and do not slow down the previously set task of rearming the army by 30% by 2015 and increasing these percentages by 2020 to 70-100. And the conversation is not only about machine guns or pistols, which also can not but rejoice. However, it remains a big question whether those weapon models for 2020 that are available now will be relevant. So, for example, in the West they have long been talking in whispers about cartridges of 6,5 or 6,8 caliber instead of 5,56 for machine guns, but we can not expect similar ammunition everywhere with a guarantee before 2020. Well, even if by some miracle they appear in the 2020 year, when, under good circumstances, the re-equipment of the same new machine will be completed, then it will take another 10-20 years for them to be applied everywhere. In general, the current situation is not encouraging. On the other hand, these are only plans, and they tend to change, so little hope remains.

Since the creation of new products of the military industry requires a lot of effort, since it is more and more difficult to come up with something fundamentally new, many are trying to improve the performance in terms of reliability or durability, and then push the resulting “product” into the army. In order to prevent such phenomena, a separate structure will be created to control the conclusion of contracts, as well as to control the quality of products supplied to the army. In general, khe-khe, you know ...

A few words were said about the training of soldiers and sergeants. So, according to the chief of the General Staff, one year of service turned out to be quite enough to make a person a specialist in his field during this time. Posts that require more thorough training will be assigned to contract soldiers, the number of whom are planning to increase by 50 thousands annually. The only question is who will hold these positions, while the number of contractors is not enough ...

In general, it seems that the information about anything, so told, is tops, but on the other hand, there is something to think about. Although, perhaps, this is just an “empty ring”, to which I was too pessimistic.
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  1. volcano
    volcano 7 December 2012 08: 19
    +11
    Well, if the NHS declares that nothing needs to be changed in general, then it will lose confidence as quickly as its predecessor.
    The fact of the matter is that the Army hopes for CHANGE
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 7 December 2012 08: 43
      +20
      Quote:.
      the removal of Serdyukov from his post does not mean that his reforms were completely bad and worthless.


      I would like to elaborate on useful reforms of Serdyukov, a man from the cosmically distant army, when soldiers' mothers say that this is a reduction in the duration of conscription, the release of soldiers from military tasks unusual for the military (cooking, cleaning the territory, etc.). I understand them mother is mother. But in general, a disaster,

      Of the three commanders of the Armed Forces, all three have been replaced.

      Of the three commanders of individual branches of the armed forces, three have been replaced.

      Of the four heads of services and logistics departments, three have been replaced.

      Of the six commanding districts, all six are replaced.

      Of the five fleet and flotilla commanders, four were replaced, and only Rear Admiral Viktor Kravchuk, the commander of the Caspian Flotilla, has been fulfilling his duties since 2005

      In fact, all headquarters, from the level of the General Staff to the headquarters of the divisions, which are rapidly being converted into brigades, are now in a semi-paralyzed state.
      The main operational directorate of the General Staff was reduced from five hundred and fifty people in just a year, first to two hundred and sixty, and now to one hundred and fifty people in general. Almost four times! At the same time, the number of tasks remained the same and even increased in connection with the same reform. To get rid of the officers who had become unnecessary, a rotation order was born in the depths of the Serdyukov Ministry of Defense, which limits the officer's service in the central cities to three years, after which he must give up his place to the next one, and he himself must go where the Ministry of Defense will send the decision to liquidate the institution of warrant officers. and midshipmen. This is no less than one hundred and forty thousand professionals of one of the main technical "castes" of the Russian Armed Forces, on which the maintenance and servicing of the most complex equipment traditionally lay. The reform was launched without even adopting a military doctrine - a document that, in fact, defines, how the reform should be carried out, what threats await us in the future, against whom we form our army and what it should be. As a result, ill-considered hasty decisions led to ugly results. Instead of mobile, combat-ready units, some kind of monsters turned out, more reminiscent of boxers with the arms of dwarfs, when the rear, combat support and means of support actually migrated from the divisional level to the brigade level, but the combat units were cut to a minimum.

      You can write a lot here, but one thing is clear
      more and more military experts come to the conclusion that the real goal of the reform was not an increase in the combat capabilities of the Russian army, but its next large-scale reduction. The final elimination of the "matrix" of the Soviet Army, dismantling of its strategic orientation, mobilization base and its final transfer to the regional level.
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 8 December 2012 10: 36
        -1
        +100/500 !!! laughing
        Quote: Vadivak
        Final elimination of the "matrix" of the Soviet Army
        - these are the key words about this whole "reform"!
    2. green
      green 7 December 2012 10: 02
      +3
      And what should he say? He is only a performer, and the general direction will remain the same, I think, since it is determined by the highest political leadership, and if there are any changes, then only in details.
      1. Pit
        Pit 7 December 2012 12: 13
        -1
        Naturally, something will be adjusted, but on the whole everything will remain as it was planned. However, it is not yet known what will be changed and what will not.


        Any action can be adapted to these words. Those. you can put all the reforms that have been carried out before the cat's tail and start new ones and leave a couple of points old. In my opinion they will do so. Tipo Serdyukov began, and we continued. And all remained good.
      2. to water
        to water 7 December 2012 16: 44
        +5
        I can add the following. I retired in 2003. Refused to renew the contract, because I had to feed my family and live somewhere in more or less decent conditions. With the monetary allowance that was, you can only exist, but I can’t steal, and it was disgusting to observe all this. Many remained to serve until they received an apartment. I communicate with the servants. The financial situation has, of course, improved over the past year, but the reduction in officer posts has led to the fact that now officers serve as sergeants. There is a question of career growth, some kind of prospects for these officers. If he has potential, he is ambitious and wants to be realized 100%, i.e. to apply in practice everything that he was taught for five years, today there is no such opportunity. Roughly speaking, "wiped your feet on you." But they will be patient, get apartments and quit. What's next? There will be a break in acceptance. In five years, the newly minted sergeants will take their legal posts, so what? From whom will battalion and brigade commanders, chiefs of staff grow? This is a big question.
        1. Jin
          Jin 7 December 2012 21: 26
          0
          Quote: regar
          What's next? There will be a gap in succession. Five years later, newly made sergeants will take their rightful posts, and so what? From whom will the commanders of battalions and brigades, chiefs of staff, grow? This is a big question.


          + To you. Farther? Unfortunately in modern Russia this is a purely hypothetical question, my opinion is nothing good, unfortunately. (I have the honor!
      3. ramzes1776
        ramzes1776 8 December 2012 15: 14
        +2
        Divisions must be returned. Brigades, as independent combat units, have not justified themselves. Fact !!! Technicians and rear officers must be returned and the rank of ensign is restored.
    3. Krilion
      Krilion 7 December 2012 13: 45
      +6
      Quote: volkan
      Well, if the NGS declares that nothing needs to be changed in general, then it will lose confidence as quickly as its predecessor. The fact of the matter is that the Army hopes for CHANGE


      it's time to take off your rose-colored glasses ... Serdyukov was not engaged in amateur performances - he just fulfilled the will of VVP ... now gerasimov, who would be happy to return everything back, is again obliged to fulfill the will of VVP, i.e. continue the already running collapse ... hence the corresponding statements ... all the theft and corruption in the country are grown by the hands of the GDP ... and as long as the GDP and its team are in power, there will be in Russia theft, corruption and the collapse of the army and the fleet ... all of Putin's "genius" so far has been embodied in the intensified laying of gas and oil pipelines to Europe and Asia ... he has done NOTHING else ...
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 8 December 2012 10: 42
        +1
        Quote: Krilion
        it's time to take off the pink glasses ...

        It already seems to me that for some here it is a feature of vision, not glasseslaughing
        You are a big plus !!!
    4. s1н7т
      s1н7т 8 December 2012 10: 30
      0
      What are you like children? NGSH and MO - stupidly conductors of the High Command policy, what changes ?!
  2. donchepano
    donchepano 7 December 2012 08: 37
    -2
    they both haven’t settled there yet ... what will happen next?
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 7 December 2012 19: 18
      +2
      Quote: donchepano
      they both haven’t settled there yet ... what will happen next?

      I agree, and if they begin to say that the whole reform was erroneous, then the consequences can be serious either for them or for their predecessors!
      1. Jin
        Jin 7 December 2012 21: 30
        +1
        Yarbay,
        Hi Alibek! Something I do not understand, what about your epaulets, dear !? As I understand it, after the marshal, they again assign the privates?) And so on. increasingly? what
  3. YARY
    YARY 7 December 2012 08: 39
    +23
    After all the hype, after all the victorious reports, bright festive exhibitions, what remains "in the sludge"?
    The question remains, "What will happen in the event of an attack on us by NATO?"
    During the Great Patriotic War, we were virtually attacked by the whole of Europe, since all the captured and unoccupied countries gave Hitler everything they could, from manpower to nails.
    Looking from this angle, the current NATO is an enlarged copy of the agglomerate that attacked us in 1941 ..
    But there is a very significant difference! As a result of diplomatic tricks, it was possible to "deduce" Turkey from the equation, and this is the CAUCASUS. And what would happen if the Turks attacked from the South? A certain part of Hitler's army would not have been in the South, but in the Moscow theater of operations.
    It was also possible to "isolate" Japan. This made it possible to transfer forces from the Far East.
    At the moment, we do not have the USSR, this time.
    Our population (and this is all from small to large) is two times less — that's two.
    Turkey is now obliged to attack and no one can trick three.
    Japan will attack without a team of four.
    China chop off whatever it wants and most likely even without a fight - five.
    Why am I suddenly so pessimistic?
    All that I read about updating the army reminded me of the state of the Armed Forces before the Second World War. Only in a more deteriorated form.
    We take a hypothetical opponent and try to "defeat" him. Nonsense!
    You can’t prepare the army to fight against some mythical zombies! The enemy must be with a face, a name and a flag!
    It is impossible to "reform" the army without having the goal of anticipating a specific enemy! Otherwise, it is just an attempt to update the mate part, as we see, and it fails.
    The mediocrity and stupidity of such "body movements" is obvious.
    In order to stop one Hitler, it was necessary to retreat to Moscow, how much would be enough for an attack from all sides?
    Optimists say-Strategic Missile Forces in our hands!
    Cool down your ardor. Maybe this is what our enemies want? What would you say about "nuclear terrorism" and use your entire arsenal? After all, unlike us, they did not destroy the PCP, but stored it. They are developing missile defense. It is not just that we are being offered a nuclear disarmament program! The fewer "birds" fly out - the easier it will be to "catch" them! And it may not be enough for all purposes! So the "card" of mutual destruction falls out.
    I ask YOU - Does our "leadership" already give a damn about us?
    Doesn’t it see that EVERYTHING is already EDGE ?!
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 7 December 2012 08: 58
      0
      Quote: Ardent
      Optimists will say, Strategic Missile Forces are in our hands! Cool down your ardor. Maybe this is what our enemies want? What would you say about "nuclear terrorism" and use your entire arsenal? After all, unlike us, they did not destroy the PCP but stored it. They are developing missile defense. It is not just that we are being offered a nuclear disarmament program! The fewer "birds" fly out - the easier it will be to "catch" them! And it may not be enough for all purposes! So the "card" of mutual destruction falls out.

      - Greetings, Yary. Everything is correct, but I do not agree with this. Turkey is obliged to attack? A clear prediction that with just a couple of "charges" their Istanbul and Anakara will be erased from the map of the Earth - and Turkey will deeply spit on its NATO commitments. Let us recall how they "strained" when the USSR, in response to the deployment of missiles in Turkey, announced that strikes would also be delivered at the missile launch sites in the direction of the USSR. "I was howling - what have we to do with it? The missiles are not ours!" After the Cuban missile crisis, the missiles were removed, and a frightened Turkey declared itself a nuclear-free zone, pioneering the movement. Yapiy does not need to be warned about this - you yourself know why. And therefore they will not attack. After all, you pump a little.
      1. YARY
        YARY 7 December 2012 09: 08
        +5
        Dear elder!
        Aegis in Batumi and Sevastopol doesn’t tell you anything?
        The same parsley on the Bosphorus.
        Now put this in the schema of my "post" - what happens?

        Turkey member of NATA-read the charter of this organization.
        And who said about nuclear weapons? I'm talking about an invasion.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 7 December 2012 09: 36
      +5
      Quote: Ardent
      Does it not see

      What it sees only God knows, but where it looks clear, but not everything is so dark IMHO of course
      Turkey will not attack without a team fas. An obese Europe will die from a broken heart only at one launch of missiles with a nuclear warhead. China will attack if it is confident that the dams are invulnerable, and a couple of missiles are enough there. Japan? I agree, samurai will not even be intimidated by nuclear weapons, but without the United States they will not jerk, and it is unprofitable for America to fight with its raw materials appendage, which can push cut paper in unlimited quantities in exchange for real resources
      1. Jin
        Jin 7 December 2012 10: 53
        +4
        Vadivak,
        Well, the arguments, on all sides, are more than sound ... But I was stumped by the lack of a resume what What do we have at the output? Right and ardent, with his arguments, right and Vadivak, with his. Personally, I think there is definitely a threat. How the cards will be laid out in this "solitaire", I do not presume to judge who will attack whom and when, and who will not. IMHO It is obvious that the dregs of the "Arab Spring" are rolling towards the North Caucasus. With Syria, everything is complicated and just like that, no one will leave it alone, the next Iran, and there it is, the Caucasus ... I don’t undertake to predict how everything will go, but in this situation, Russia definitely cannot expect anything good! The same "rebels" will begin as now in Syria, only in the Caucasus and the south of the CIS. No one can declare war on us, but they will be dragged into such a meat grinder that our mother is dear. It will already be "Superchechnya"! And again, it will gradually begin to weaken us and our resources. And there ... and there it is scary to think about something (IMHO Everything will start when they attack Iran. Destabilization, then "accidentally" shelling, then "accidentally" the border will be violated and off we go! Only under the guise of refugees, a whole army you can send (((
        1. His
          His 7 December 2012 12: 00
          0
          Che make noise? Where is the money zin
        2. SIT
          SIT 7 December 2012 22: 47
          +5
          Quote: Jin
          The same "rebels" will begin as now in Syria, only in the Caucasus and the south of the CIS. No one can declare war on us, but they will be dragged into such a meat grinder that our mother is dear. It will already be "Superchechnya"!

          That's it!! And then where to shoot the ICBMs with nuclear weapons? In Grozny, Ufa and Kazan? Or maybe according to Prospekt Mira, when there tens of thousands of guests from the south will gather at Navruz Bayram? Or is it a problem for them to get enough weapons to put all of Russia on their ears? And the United States will wait both in the 1st World War and in the 2nd, and they will come here as liberators and saviors, when we begin to drown in the bloodstream with our own Muslim brothers and imported from the Middle East. We will be throwing bouquets of flowers with tears of joy under the tracks of Abramsov and Leopard, and not grenades and bottles with Molotov’s cauldron. Because NATO will be better than the massacre that the Mujahideen will arrange. Who and what will stop them? We were busy with Chechnya and still are busy, and if blaze from Kazakhstan to Adygea and the + 5th convoy in any city of Russia, then the army that can’t cope and NATO will be deliverance. And as soon as NATO comes, the spirits will immediately cease because funding will stop - the Saudis will not go against the United States. Finally, the dream of all Western geopolitics will come true - Russia's resources will become their property.
          1. Jin
            Jin 7 December 2012 23: 06
            -1
            Quote: SIT
            Chechnya and I have been messing around and are still messing with it, and if it blazes from Kazakhstan to Adygea and the + 5th convoy in any city in Russia, then the army that can’t cope and NATO will be deliverance. And as soon as NATO comes, the spirits will immediately cease because funding will stop - the Saudis will not go against the United States. Finally, the dream of all Western geopolitics will come true - Russia's resources will become their property.


            + It’s quite simple and at the same time ingeniously you can take us for the gills, yes colleague? Anyway, I still can’t believe that the GDP is not in the know about the possibility of such a gambit! This cannot be, simply by the fact that this cannot be! Here it remains to hope, otherwise not see good luck sad I hope that behind this offensive inaction and silence lies a ready-made, worked-out and viable plan! Otherwise, the word Russian will remain only in the chronicles (((
            1. SIT
              SIT 7 December 2012 23: 57
              0
              Quote: Jin
              Anyway, I still can’t believe that the GDP is not in the know about the possibility of such a gambit! This cannot be, simply by the fact that this cannot be!

              Judging by the reaction of the GDP to the events in Syria and the allocation of considerable funds for the rearmament of the army, it seems that he understood what number Russia is in the line for democratization. But at the expense of a thoughtful and consistent plan, I doubt it. If he were, there would be a clear military doctrine, with a clear probable enemy, a description of his forces and means, and hence the plan for his own military development. This is something that is not visible. Well, at least they understood that just sitting and nodding as in the case of Libya would not end well for us. Already good. what
      2. Ascetic
        Ascetic 7 December 2012 12: 07
        +10
        Quote: Vadivak
        China will attack if it is confident that the dams are invulnerable, and a couple of missiles are enough there.


        I will add that for China this is an obvious disaster, In the beam of striking at some points in the Yellow River valley
        according to some estimates, up to 800 million will die. Chinese. They know about this and therefore they do not rock on to anyone, they only gnash their teeth. This is evident from their policy, just back down in the hope that two tigers will fight and the wise monkey will be on the "mountain" I am silent about the Japs , there is only Fukushima panic, where they should attack someone, especially since China is not breathing evenly and in this case will not remain on the sidelines. By the way, there are similar vulnerable points in the states, in particular in California, which are not covered by any missile defense system in the event of a pinpoint strike on which the entire West Coast of America will disappear under water.
        Former Chief of the Strategic Missile Forces General Staff Colonel-General Yesin Viktor Ivanovich told me such a case. After his dismissal, he continued to work in the apparatus of the Security Council and once came to the Americans as part of a delegation. So he says: “I’m traveling in San Francisco with the Americans on the bus. Everyone is talking, laughing. And here we drive past the lighthouse. I looked at him and said: "I know this lighthouse." Americans - to him: “How can you know him if this is your first time in San Francisco?” And he replies: “You forgot that I was engaged in nuclear planning. And the lighthouse - it was the aiming point. I will tell you more: next to this lighthouse is the collapse of the earth's crust. So, if a multi-megaton block gets here, then a landslide will happen. And half of California will be in the ocean. After all, they silently drove to their destination "... So we know our" beacons ".

        Commander of the Strategic Missile Forces, Lieutenant General Sergey Karakaev: “Vladimir Vladimirovich was right - we can destroy the United States in less than half an hour”

        My webpage
        I’ll add from myself that, of course, Yesin knew about the lighthouse and about California, and of course this is most likely wrong lighthouse and don’t feed a true rocketeer with bread, let’s go over the self-confident Yankees .. I know what I'm talking about. laughing
    3. Krilion
      Krilion 7 December 2012 13: 49
      +6
      Quote: Ardent
      I ask YOU- Does our "management" already give a damn about us? Doesn't it see that EVERYTHING is already BORDER ?!


      the leadership has long been at the service of the Washington regional committee .. if you understand this simple thing - all questions immediately disappear ...
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 7 December 2012 14: 12
        +4
        Quote: Krilion
        the leadership has long been at the service of the Washington regional committee .. if you understand this simple thing - all questions immediately disappear ...


        Rather, the leadership has a strong and influential lobby of the Washington Regional Committee. I recently wrote about this, in particular about the vice-chairman of Medvedev. In confirmation of the latest news.
        Medvedev still believes that Serdyukov was an effective minister

        "I think that Serdyukov as Minister of Defense worked very efficiently. This consisted in the fact that under Serdyukov, of course, after decisions were made by the supreme commanders, and Serdyukov worked with the two supreme commanders, reforms began in the army "

        My webpage
        1. Jin
          Jin 7 December 2012 23: 09
          +3
          Quote: Ascetic
          Medvedev still believes that Serdyukov was an effective minister


          Um ... Medvedev is smeared with Serdyukov on the Mistrals, so he's tearing his ass, there's nowhere to go (IMHO
    4. Piligrim
      Piligrim 8 December 2012 15: 14
      0
      Maybe dear you to the ministers ???
      on the site you I looked points are not badly raked! And clever on all topics ...!
      So you have your opinion convinced of your innocence (and not whose other), so why should not the participants in this forum appoint their own minister ???
      There’s nowhere to get balls! lol
      I suggest you, Yary, to the ministers of the site "Military Review" love
  4. Mr. Truth
    Mr. Truth 7 December 2012 08: 46
    +2
    The cartridge is new!
  5. erased
    erased 7 December 2012 09: 32
    +1
    A new cartridge of caliber 6,8 has already been created; a Barrett rifle - REC7 - has been made for it. But how justified is the appearance of such a cartridge? And is it necessary to repeat such a move?
    With regards to the reform as a whole ... how much can the current army hold out in a big war? resources, mobility reserve, striking power, tasks? analyze, then speak.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 7 December 2012 10: 41
      0
      But how justified is the appearance of such a cartridge? And is it necessary to repeat such a move?



      6.5 Grendel (6.5x39)
      6.5 Grendel (6.5x39) providing better ballistics (longer firing range) and more reliable target destruction compared to the standard 5.56x45 cartridge, while providing a moderate recoil impulse. At the heart of this cartridge is a slightly modified sleeve of the Soviet 7.62x39 cartridge, re-pressed for a 6.5mm bullet. In recent years, the 6.5 Grendel cartridge has been actively promoted in the United States as an optimal compromise in the combination of ballistic qualities, striking action, recoil momentum and ammunition dimensions and mass, occupying a niche between NATO 7.62x51 and NATO 5.56x45 cartridges. Currently, only "commercial" models of small arms are offered in this caliber, however, if a decision is made in its favor, the conversion of army weapons from cartridge 5.56x45 to cartridge 6.5 Grendel will not be so difficult (it will be necessary to replace barrels, bolt action larvae and magazines ).
      6.8 Remington SPC (6.8x43)
      The 6.8mm Remington SPC cartridge (Special Purpose Cartridge) is another attempt to create an optimal intermediate cartridge that combines good performance with live targets, adequate ballistics (especially when shooting from carbines with a relatively short barrel) and moderate recoil and dimensions. The cartridge is developed by the American company Remington in close cooperation with fighters and experts of the US Special Operations Forces, and is actively promoting in the United States as a promising army cartridge, although so far without much success. Alogical to its main competitor, the 6.5 Grendel cartridge, reworking existing 5.56mm assault rifles with a 6.8mm cartridge will be quite uncomplicated (replacement of trunks, shutter combat larvae and magazines will be required).

      Moreover, there are rumors about AK 12, which will have a caliber of not only 5,45x39, 5,56x45, 7,62x39; 7,62x51, but also 6,5x39 (aka grendel).
  6. Svarog
    Svarog 7 December 2012 09: 40
    +8
    YARY,
    Quote: Ardent
    And the question remains, “What will happen in the event of an attack on us by NATO?” During the Great Patriotic War, we were practically attacked by the whole of Europe, since all the captured and non-occupied countries gave Hitler everything they could, from manpower to nails. today's NATO is an enlarged copy of the agglomerate that attacked us in 1941.

    The Germans began to scare the population of their country with a Russian soldier only when we began to drive them back, when they no longer had a choice. But in NATO everyone is already afraid of us ... which of these warriors will be the first to climb?
    There are good thoughts, but on the whole I do not agree with YARYM, For example, the same Japanese will never climb, knowing that at least 1 atomic bomb will reach them, they have this fear sewn up in the cerebellum. America cannot guarantee that all countries around us will not be incinerated in the first half hour of the fighting. For her, it is clear that these will be "acceptable" losses, but NATO is not full of idiots (remember Yugoslavia, when the NATO general refused to shoot at ours, although the stakes were completely different there).
    China licks its lips at our resources, but it will observe the maximum from the sidelines (the parable of the wise dragon), because in any case, it will be in the black - if Russia loses, it will quietly clean up the entire Far East and no one can tell him anything about it, In the event of a "victory" of Russia (it is difficult to say what kind of victory it will be), it will remain the only trading partner, despite the fact that the population of our country will need literally everything for decades at a low price (or rather, there will be a simple barter of goods for resources, our factories will all be destroyed), although the price will be "low" relatively, China will become a monopoly.
    The prosperous NATO countries will find any excuse not to climb - the tanks will break, the uniform will break apart, etc. About the combat readiness of sprats and their ilk, article by article goes, including on this forum. The Americans need time, and quite a lot, to transfer troops (for simplicity we will consider nuclear weapons no one will use at first)
    It seems to me that at the moment there can be no such invasion. By the mythical 2020, most likely, too, it is not for nothing that our authorities are beginning to itch by this date. It is necessary to prepare for a serious war for 25-30 years, including "As a result of diplomatic tricks it was possible ..."
  7. na76
    na76 7 December 2012 09: 57
    +3
    NATU are afraid not to go into the woods .... Our army barely managed even "minor" conflicts like Chechnya and Ossetia, and now there is talk of confrontation with almost the whole world ...
    And how can you tell me you can build one of the strongest armies in the world, when our elite is mainly engaged in pushing oil and gas to the west and storing the money received in the same foreign banks?
    The general of the NHS must understand a lot, maybe he wants the Russian army to be the same as the USSR in the 70-80s, but this is not realistic to achieve due to objective reasons
    A conflict with the whole of Europe, for example, as we will not allow now in 1941, we then almost broke the navel, and now we simply won’t pull it, and in order to prevent it from developing like this, we need to use all possible options, political, economic, look for any points contact with all the less or less adequate neighbors, to prevent the creation of a single anti-Russian bloc, even if compromising some of your political and ideological interests, putting imperial ambitions in the ass, the only thing that is not permissible is squandering territory and human resources, especially the latter, otherwise we Tryndets will surely come, we just have very few left, another civil war and the Russians as a single people will simply cease to exist ...
    And focus, focus, focus
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 7 December 2012 10: 43
      +8
      And how can you tell me you can build one of the strongest armies in the world, when our elite is mainly engaged in pushing oil and gas to the west and storing the money received in the same foreign banks?

      As Brzezinski said - "I don’t understand whose it is, this is your political elite, ours or yours"...
    2. Jin
      Jin 7 December 2012 12: 09
      +1
      Quote: nae76
      Our army could hardly manage even "minor" conflicts like Chechnya and Ossetia


      Strongly for! And this is a very big problem (((I was here yesterday on another thread, they tried to explain that our army is super prepared and archy mighty! That I don’t understand Nichrome and I don’t own the situation ... That's what I’m interested in But this is one of us, from the Russians !!! sad And such calls, they say with a tambourine with a dance, we are moving Syria to help out troops! I understand that Syria needs help and I really wish it, but we will not take out what will begin after direct military assistance! And it starts * oops!

      Quote: nae76
      Conflict with the whole of Europe, for example, as we will not allow in 1941, we then almost broke our navel, and now we simply won’t pull it


      I agree +! For too long everyone was falling apart, plundered, so that it would be so easy to wave a saber now! You need to look soberly at things and calculate strength, otherwise you can easily get a hat!
  8. AK-47
    AK-47 7 December 2012 10: 21
    -1
    Positions that require more thorough training will be assigned to contractors, whose number they plan to increase annually by 50 thousand.

    Reasonable.
  9. Farvil
    Farvil 7 December 2012 10: 27
    +8
    How patriots are tired of these cheers, here we are, how can we give Claudia and everyone a country with this leadership and officials steeped in corruption is one step away from complete collapse and they stupidly continue to go there. Until the system changes urgently in the country management and then the restoration of industry, etc., without looking back to the West, we will be in a coma pack state, they will not devour us.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 7 December 2012 10: 47
      +5
      Until the management system is urgently changed in the country ...

      Actually being determines consciousness, so it is not the system that needs to be changed, but the sanctions (to say the punishment) for violations, and the higher the person in the system, the more severe the punishment.
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 8 December 2012 10: 57
        0
        Quote: PSih2097
        sanctions should not be changed

        Naive! Just the system will not let you change anything - you have to start with yourself after all! laughing
        1. Farik
          Farik 8 December 2012 19: 07
          +2
          Gshniki should control everyone, if at once they report to the president.
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 8 December 2012 22: 56
        0
        Punishments do not need to be changed, they are now quite serious. It is only necessary to decide to apply them. And it is not the severity of punishment that scares, but its inevitability. In the meantime, instead of inevitability, we see impunity ...
    2. Jin
      Jin 7 December 2012 12: 15
      +1
      Quote: Farvil
      Without looking back to the west, we will be in a coma pack state, they will not devour us.


      Damn, and most importantly, a colleague, almost everyone understands this, but for us nothing damn it, and most importantly it doesn’t even smell like changes !!! sad The conclusion is being drawn that this is simply deliberately done, and at the highest level!
  10. green
    green 7 December 2012 10: 40
    +5
    ardentAfter all the hype, after all the victorious reports, bright festive exhibitions, what remains "in the sludge"?
    The question remains, "What will happen in the event of an attack on us by NATO?"

    It will be worse than in 41, then even though there were people, but now, after 20 years of moral and physical decay, who will defend the country? Utyrka with Jaguar banks, or majors on Jaguars.
    Another thing is that no one will attack. And not even because we are afraid and we can (yet) inflict unacceptable damage on them. And because they understand that as soon as they do this, tomorrow they will be left alone with China, which will not stand in to the side and to the noise will occupy all territories to the Urals.
    And they can destroy us not by military methods, enough to lower the prices for hydrocarbons (they have already done this with the Soviet Union) and keep them - we have practically no reserves.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 7 December 2012 10: 51
      +1
      The question remains, "What will happen in the event of an attack on us by NATO?"

      If there is the will of leadership, then only cockroaches and rats will remain on the ground, and if not, nothing will change (as the traitors in power sat, they will continue to sit there) ...
    2. Jin
      Jin 7 December 2012 23: 17
      +1
      Quote: vert
      who will defend the country? Utyrka with Jaguar banks, or majors on Jaguars.


      No, of course, these are just suitable only for the positions of policemen (((
  11. Kosmodrom
    Kosmodrom 7 December 2012 11: 16
    +1
    I do not understand what the article is about?
    1. scrabler
      7 December 2012 12: 30
      +1
      Yes, nothing in principle. Just some small conclusions based on the last words of the Chief of General Staff. I am personally most concerned about the issue of replacing weapons by 2020 year. At the moment, we are lagging behind the same US years on 20 in a manual firearm. It turns out that at such a pace the gap will remain the same, that is, instead of reducing it, they simply try not to do more. This is certainly not bad on the one hand, but on the other is far from ideal.
      1. 11Goor11
        11Goor11 7 December 2012 13: 55
        0
        20 years behind the same United States by handgun

        by quantity, quality?
        The fact that because of the reform in command and control is a big problem is a fact, but simple firearms and "20 years lag" is how?
        1. scrabler
          7 December 2012 16: 06
          +1
          It's elementary. Just look and compare. Separate niches in our country are practically empty, in the USA it is only empty in the niche of the "light machine gun" and then they are twitching in this direction very actively. AK, of course, it is reliable, simple and ideal for mass armament, but this does not mean that you just need to give up and score on everything. And it would be enough to switch to a new cartridge, before re-equipping to a new model, and we would be sharply ahead in at least one parameter and at least temporarily, and there the main thing is not to slow down - to develop and improve. The main thing with the patron is not to miss in this matter.
  12. Nechai
    Nechai 7 December 2012 11: 35
    +4
    Quote: Vadivak
    and Ait is unprofitable for Merica to fight with its raw materials appendage to which you can push cut paper in unlimited quantities in exchange for real resources

    A key condition for maintaining the current situation. Diplomatically speaking - a public entity with limited sovereignty. Its results are in front of everyone's eyes. The ongoing "reforming" of everything and everyone is precisely aimed at preventing Russia from Gaining complete sovereignty. The power of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation plays, naturally, one of the key roles in this matter. Reckless reliance on strategic nuclear forces is destructive, because it ONLY depends on the political leadership of the Russian Federation whether it will be applied at all. / for personal real estate, for their kids, banks with accounts dear to their hearts - for everything acquired by overwork suitcase "all these are SLAPPIES and nothing more. Passage NGSH - "but in general everything will remain as planned"- indicative. Is not it?...
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 7 December 2012 11: 46
      +1
      Quote: Nechai
      Speaking diplomatically - a public entity with limited sovereignty.


      Valera - this is how half a moron in life on agricultural work can be used and pay with food
  13. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 7 December 2012 11: 54
    0
    with us, by 2020, it’s possible not to wait for such ammunition everywhere already with a guarantee.

    Such ammunition was developed back in the USSR 6.5x39 and 6.5x54mm
    Information about them is somewhere on the site.
    the number of which they plan to increase annually by 50 thousand. The only question is who will occupy these posts, while the number of contractors is not enough ...

    who, who ... those who couldn’t find work in a civilian, that's who. In general, in an interview on Star TV, a guy of some kind (included a telly for the background, so he didn’t remember who it was) was crucified that they had a contest: 7 people per place.
    1. scrabler
      7 December 2012 12: 43
      0
      6х49 Yes, domestic development, which was killed along with two sniper rifles for these ammunition. And then it is not about whether there is ammunition or not (I am sure that there is a lot about what is simply not widely known, something worthwhile, something slag), but about the fact that these cartridges will not replace 2020х5,45 until at least 39. 6,5х54, as I recall, was a biathlon ammunition for a very long time. 6,5x39 - Grendel.
      1. Mr. Truth
        Mr. Truth 7 December 2012 13: 35
        0
        scrabler,
        6x49 is a very powerful cartridge, do not pull under it a weapon to do.
        6,5x39 Gr is a good cartridge, but it is a civilian one, unlike military options, unlike 6,8, unfortunately.
        On the basis of 6x49 you can make for example 6,5x45.
        1. SIT
          SIT 7 December 2012 20: 58
          +1
          Quote: Mr. Truth
          6x49 is a very powerful cartridge, we won’t pull the weapon under it. 6,5x39 Gr is a good cartridge, but it is civilian, unfortunately there are no military options, unlike 6,8. On the basis of 6x49 you can make for example 6,5x45.

          In 1916, the Petrograd cartridge plant produced 300 thousand. cartridges of caliber 6.5X50 per month. And a weapon was fired under him - Fedorov’s assault rifle. Then they abandoned it, but again they remembered him in Finnish. They were armed with fire support groups of engineering equipment to shut up the Finns from their Suomi, which was successfully done. In 2016, no longer overpower?
          1. Mr. Truth
            Mr. Truth 8 December 2012 01: 07
            0
            SIT,
            Quote: SIT
            . In 2016, no longer overpower?

            No, we will not go for a massive rearmament with such a cartridge, it is a magnum class in such a caliber. 6.5x45 if at its base, if it can spit an 8-gram bullet from an automatic machine on 800 capes, it will be the very thing, in 6,5 caliber you can realize bullets with very impressive external ballistics.
  14. Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 7 December 2012 13: 54
    +1
    quote]the removal of Serdyukov from his post does not mean that his reforms were completely bad and worthless.[/ Quote]
    Yeah! A good mine with a bad game. I would still like to know what reforms Serdyukov recognized as good and suitable.
  15. bereg
    bereg 7 December 2012 14: 50
    0
    totally and nothing
  16. Lissyara
    Lissyara 7 December 2012 16: 00
    +8
    I watched the news today ...
    Explain, to me, a stupid one, why the "iPhone ipadovich" is so diligently covering the Feldmeble's ass with the "armor plate"?
    Well, you can’t keep 140 million people of the Russian Federation (minus deputies and the government) for idiots!
    Even a hedgehog understands that Stool sawed the loot with the connivance and consent of "Twix". Yes, no one would have given him all of this for nothing.
    But the conclusion, I think that it will be very sad - Serdyukov is not to blame, he is a lame, no investigation, and all his women are to blame (the "hamster" was instructed on the wrong path), who will receive five years each (this is for hype, but on parole and let go of the "ransom" from comfortable cameras in a year and a half).
    This is our Russian democracy and the fight against corruption!
    Enrages everything!
    Why doesn't the GDP say "ALEXANDER VASILIEVICH (I'm talking about Bortnikov, because the Ministry of Internal Affairs is already powerless here), you figure it out in all this shit, and nothing."
    1. Lissyara
      Lissyara 7 December 2012 16: 17
      +1
      Rather NOT ANYWHERE! (bruised, sorry, the post above).
    2. to water
      to water 7 December 2012 17: 24
      +2
      This is called mutual responsibility. If you hook one thread and pull it, you will have to unravel the whole tangle. And so zis-chairmen were found well. Formally, the issue was worked out, they raised their anti-corruption rating themselves, drew a stick at their own expense. You can continue to work, only more subtly, turning off the barzometer. Everyone wants to eat something.
      1. Lissyara
        Lissyara 7 December 2012 20: 31
        +3
        I have a son, senior lieutenant!
        He still does not understand how much his salary is. Each month is different.
        Absolutely different amounts are credited to the card when once a month, when 4 times a month.
        And this is in his service system, where everything is computerized ABSOLUTELY!
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 7 December 2012 20: 38
          +2
          Hi Seryeg, in 90 years we sat at a glass with a nachfin, he asked me: Do you know your salary to the penny? I say no, every time they play a penny, and he: Now imagine on the scale of the army, and you’re scared that you blurted out!
          1. Lissyara
            Lissyara 7 December 2012 21: 20
            +2
            I had a NIIshny salary, but polygon and flying - this secret was covered in darkness!
  17. Tektor
    Tektor 7 December 2012 16: 41
    -3
    What have you come to? 08.08.08 showed that the old Soviet army is not able to withstand in a modern fleeting war: one division is deployed in 1,5 months. Today, a war lasts a week for strength, and minutes with a nuclear weapon. Why then all this huge army from the USSR, if only SNF, TNW and anti-aircraft / missile defense will be fought for a maximum of 1,5 hours? Modern tactics of warfare are based on the use of high-precision weapons, which require intelligence and targeting. In fact, scouts are needed from the entire army, including UAVs and all other aircraft and spacecraft, RTVs, operational command (+ Mat. Tech. Snab. + Medical units) and airborne forces, which are used in the decisive sector. The whole war is waged in a non-contact manner using the total destruction of enemy forces ...
    1. to water
      to water 7 December 2012 17: 46
      +1
      A huge army is not needed. But with a serious mess, and not in a local war, competent reservists are needed, who do not need to explain how and under what circumstances to use automatic firearms, how to throw grenades, what needs to be done in the case of one or another command of the commander. And in such conditions, the losses among the personnel are precisely due to competent commanders from the same reserve, skill and coherence of the units to which he leads. At the same time, we are reducing the training schools for junior command personnel (lieutenants), and which we are not reducing, we are stopping recruitment in them. And in ten years, with a serious mobilization at assembly points for the formation of personnel battalions and brigades, a herd of sheep will crowd, who will not know which side to remove the fuse from the AK. However, the States, waging their local wars around the world, are already attracting their reservists, as there is a shortage of l / s regular army. So draw conclusions. And as for waging a war at a distance with the use of military weapons, it’s all for the time being until expensive toys run out, and then bayonets will go into use. When the kishlak was slaughtered under the name of Libya, NATO (Europeans) quite seriously raised the question that cruise missiles had run out and that there were not enough planes and pilots for sorties.
    2. Lissyara
      Lissyara 7 December 2012 21: 55
      +5
      I will not put cons.
      Tektor, did you graduate from a military university?
      There is a concept of tactics and strategy.
      There is a concept - military doctrine.
      There is a division into wars and conflicts. Simply put, from LAN to global pipets.
      With your approach, we will turn the Airborne Forces into a "set of saboteurs", or we will use all the nuclear weapons.
      In Soviet times, a manned motorized rifle or tank division could destroy the enemy for 1-20 hours.
      With the transition to the brigades (through the efforts of DEBIL Makarchik Pinocchio), the Russian army received a bunch of holes in vast territories.
      So oh!
      1. Tektor
        Tektor 7 December 2012 23: 02
        -3
        I had a military department at the institute - a lieutenant of the reserve of the Navy of the USSR. Simply, finally, we will be forced to fight not by numbers ... There should be a new tactic of warfare - the maximum saving of the lives of soldiers. That means you need to correctly allocate resources, and do everything carefully thinking and calculating a few moves ahead. And no one will do this for us ... The main task of the commanders is to survive on their own and not let the soldier die. This means that you need high-precision ammunition, the same centimeter, and you need not to go into trouble ... Be wiser ...
        1. SIT
          SIT 7 December 2012 23: 49
          +2
          Quote: Tektor
          Just, finally, then we will be forced to fight not by number ...

          Just keep in mind that this "not a number" should be enough for the vastness from the Baltic to the Pacific Ocean. And along the entire length of the borders, if not open enemies, then sworn friends.
          1. Lissyara
            Lissyara 7 December 2012 23: 55
            +2
            But it’s wisely ... to distribute the division with its regiments - here you have to be a specialist in military art.
            But with the brigade it’s somehow not so.
            By the way, it’s also a vicious tactic in anti-aircraft defense. Divisions - it was a more manageable and mobile structure (I do not take C200, 125, 75), unlike regiments.
        2. VAF
          VAF 8 December 2012 00: 09
          +1
          Quote: Tektor
          I had a military department at the institute - a lieutenant of the reserve of the Navy of the USSR.


          Tector, dear, you (on you I hope no offense drinks ), but what you are writing about now is called DEMOGOGY, and not even a theory, but exactly as I wrote! So I'm sorry, but you are very wrong! soldier
        3. to water
          to water 8 December 2012 01: 15
          0
          With all due respect, but what are you talking about? The main task of the commander in combat conditions is to fulfill his combat mission with the maximum efficiency of using the resources at his disposal, be it personnel, equipment, ammunition, etc. But combat and other losses among personnel and pieces of equipment depend on the professionalism of the commander himself. What new tactics are you talking about, after the collapse of the union, our state does not even have a clear military doctrine, not to mention the strategy and tactics of warfare. Hence the shy, and what kind of equipment we need, and what kind of personnel is needed by our regular army. And what do you teach conscripts in one year. The first six months he gets used to the hostel in a new team torn from his mother’s boobs, and the second six months he is waiting for a demobilization. In general, what have you been taught at your military department?
          1. Tektor
            Tektor 8 December 2012 23: 14
            +1
            The devil, as you know, is in the details. Everything that has been written here is precisely the essence of the changes. Soviet attitude: "to carry out the order at any cost." But ... New time - new introductory. Let's say an order: to take possession of the height by the appointed time. The commander knows that if he fulfills the order on time, he will lose 10% more soldiers than if he does it some conditional time later. Your choice...
  18. crambol
    crambol 7 December 2012 18: 17
    0
    ... in the West, they have long been talking in a whisper about cartridges of caliber 6,5 or 6,8 instead of 5,56 for machine guns, but here until 2020 you can not wait for such ammunition everywhere with a guarantee.


    Cyril, but doesn’t it happen that our weapons masters suddenly decide to switch to 5,6, and by that time the West will think up something much better? And where are the domestic theoretical calculations that are said in our rifle tops? Or are we so overstocking 5,45 that we can’t think of anything?
    1. Lissyara
      Lissyara 7 December 2012 22: 21
      +2
      Actually, 5,45 bullshit.
      Just when you shoot a branch with AKM (we ignore PC and SVD-7), a branch flies, or half a tree. But when with 5,45 - the main thing is that it doesn’t hit the ear with a bang.
      No, I'm all for it! so that we have done "something" shooting for a unified cartridge. But as you know - versatility is 50% efficiency.
      1. SIT
        SIT 7 December 2012 23: 45
        +1
        Quote: LiSSyara
        No, I'm all for it! so that we have done "something" shooting for a unified cartridge. But as you know - versatility is 50% efficiency.

        Not universal, but optimal. Theoretically, the optimality of the 6.5mm caliber for the purposes of army (not police) manual automatic weapons was substantiated by V.G. Fedorov. The 7.62mm caliber for intermediate cartridges appeared both here and in the USA because a huge production was established for this caliber with us 7.62X54, and with them under 30-06. The creation of a 5.56X45 cartridge and then an M16 rifle under it was the first attempt to get away from 1 redundancy for automatic weapons. We, as usual, immediately catch up and overtake. They made their 7.62. There are no prophets in their homeland. It was better to return to the works of V.G. Fedorov and immediately make a cartridge 5.45, and then a weapon under it. But no. We will wait for the west to move to its Grendel and again begin to catch up and overtake the pancake.
  19. Magadan
    Magadan 8 December 2012 01: 46
    +1
    Quote: Ardent
    You can’t prepare the army to fight against some mythical zombies! The enemy must be with a face, a name and a flag!

    Ardent, your post is certainly interesting, but it is unlikely that the enemy will have a name and a flag. Of course, it will be NATO, but not officially. Like in Syria now. There is nuclear weapons and there is no way you can get around it. And missile defense cannot be covered by 100%. So it's easier to set someone stupidly. And this "someone" will just be without a face, name and flag. Most likely mercenaries from countries with permanent war (Afghan, Syria, Libya, etc.) led by officers from PMCs, financed from everywhere, without specific names and persons.
    Bridgeheads - hell knows him. But they have already come up with something about this. Most likely, our territory will be a springboard. Think fiction? And for me it's so fantastic - this is an attack by a country with a name and a flag. Again, because of nuclear weapons
  20. Zomanus
    Zomanus 8 December 2012 01: 49
    0
    Well, I'll make my sketch. So, the scenario of stripping Primorye. Churkabeses arrive, Russians leave. This is the real current situation. They are trying to make up for the loss of leaving Russians by visiting Asians. In this case, the total number of inhabitants is reduced. So. With a certain percentage of substitution, the Chinese are in danger. Asians sharply remember where their homeland is and get out of here. And Primorye is empty.
  21. neznayka
    neznayka 8 December 2012 09: 49
    +1
    Quote: vert
    and if there are any changes, then only in the details.

    Almost the first indication from the updated MO is to camouflage shoulder straps from the chest and sleeves. Well, all the main problem of the sun has been solved, and the rest of the little things will be solved in a planned manner until 20 ?? of the year. laughing
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 8 December 2012 22: 59
      0
      Well, even though the aiming point was removed from the chest, it is already pleasing winked
  22. homosum20
    homosum20 8 December 2012 19: 25
    0
    And what is bad, in this case, 7,62? Apply more resistant materials, lighten the mechanism - and here is the future.
    1. tracer
      tracer 8 December 2012 23: 59
      0
      Hmm ... I wrote to you almost an hour why it is better .. the message went somewhere ..
  23. tracer
    tracer 8 December 2012 23: 08
    0
    It’s sad to read .. It’s sadly sad that the years of reform will be so ridiculous again ... where? You know my friends .., more and more I’m thinking about ... That the future for Russia is our past .... UNION .... I see no other way for my homeland ... Wherever you look everywhere .. asshole .. Let them not live richly then, but we had a HOMELAND AND A FLAG .. And honor and conscience ... Cowards were called Cowards, traitors, traitors, thieves, thieves .... There were no hungry people ... Eh .... there were times. ..
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 8 December 2012 23: 29
      0
      My father, as a young man, found Khrushchev’s military reform. About the same mess and stupidity. But then at least they caught on quickly ...
  24. family tree
    family tree 8 December 2012 23: 17
    +1
    7,62-5.45 2,17 =
    2,17: 2 1,08 =
    5,45 + 1,08 = 6,53, in short, another intermediate cartridge, between two intermediate.
    The next intermediate cartridge will be in increments of 0.5 mm in one direction or another.
    Then 0,25 and each time the developers will, grabbing by the throat, prove that their cartridge is much more powerful than the previous one. IMHO, if they planted potatoes in the Arctic, there would be more sense. But no. They will thrust a bribe to a "respected person" and will again adopt "the most, most patron". I will not tell you how the reference product differs from the serial one.
  25. Locksmith
    Locksmith 8 December 2012 23: 33
    0
    Quote: PSih2097
    6,5x39 (aka grendel)

    Smash me with thunder, how is it especially different from our 7.62? What can't you stick into our cartridge without changing the caliber? Tank guns specifically strive for a larger caliber, it is easier to disperse the projectile to a higher speed. For a bullet, this is also characteristic - with a larger caliber = less lateral load on the bullet, less barrel wear, at the same pressure, much more energy, and a difference of 1 mm of diameter can be compensated for by a lighter bullet, - the linear size is the same, the diameter of the sleeve is also = hell do you need ?? Let the cartridge be improved by changing the size and geometry of the bullet, as well as the property of gunpowder, the accuracy of the manufacture of the cartridge and the weighed amount of gunpowder, no pancake, you have to fucking destroy everything to the ground and create a bad version out of the blue, so that after a while you understand this and start "bast wet" am
    1. tracer
      tracer 9 December 2012 00: 12
      0
      Yes ... my friend ... I agree in many respects. But .... I will try for a simple ... The thing is, you need to combine the best of 7,62 / 39 and the best of 5,45 / 54. Well, or in NATO variations ... whoever you like .. The persistence of a high-speed bullet 5 ,,, is known with horseradish .... as well as its speed (in combat economical use) .. Since the cartridge is designed to defeat enemy personnel ( in its pure form) then at the slightest protection of the fighter with bulletproof vests, the bullets of light bullets approach zero .. Kinematics 6,5 (the same pretzel) is completely different ... these are the best qualities of 7,62 / 39 and 5,45 / 39 combined. besides, nastilnost improves .... at times ... I was expecting from AK 12 just rebirth in the new caliber .. That is what gives him new life and success in the markets.
      1. family tree
        family tree 9 December 2012 00: 30
        +1
        How many dots. And why not 6,0, or not 7,0, and where did it come from at times? Then begins the pairing of ballistics with kinematics along a flat path?