Because we were “not up to Ukraine” for a long time...

What is happening today in Ukraine, of course, is a topic for all kinds of research - from military and political to philosophical. Since gaining the so-called independence (it is difficult to say from whom and from what) Ukraine has followed only one path. The essence of this movement is the same - to retreat as far as possible, move away, run away from Russia, even if there - where you wander off, move away, run away or crawl away - a quagmire that can drag you up to your ears, up to the top of your head.

And here you can talk as much as you like about the destructive essence of the Ukrainian regime, about the fact that one government is worse than another. But does this remove responsibility from our foreign policy system, which worked according to a program (if there was one at all) concerning our immediate neighbors after the collapse of the USSR? The question is rhetorical.

You can object by saying that in the 1990s Russia had enough of its own problems, and there was “no time for Ukraine”. So that's the point. Believing that in the West we are entirely friends and comrades, our state concentrated, as it is now fashionable to say, on the inner contour so much that we did not want to look at anything further than our own nose. Marching under the banner of Waffen-SS divisions? OK. This is an isolated case… The police will intervene, the perpetrators will be punished. But the perpetrators were not punished, and after that these perpetrators ended up at the helm of the state, which was already openly spraying poison on Russia.

This hostile state appeared at our side. We believed that brothers lived there, who were just like us, and therefore they would always support us in everything. “Well, they won’t support the Banderaites, in fact ...” They did. And how. "America is with us" and stuff like that.

Nikita Mikhalkov discusses the topic in his author's program Besogon TV.

Comments

[Iran]

Yes, yes, the tsar-father had more important things to do - making Russia Great. Therefore, it was not up to Ukraine.

[Alexander]

Yes, there was never any Ukraine! This is the fruit conceived in the darkness of the Austro-Hungarian intelligence! In order to be mean to RI!

[Pavel57]

Politics is a continuation of the economy. And the economy was built oligarchic.

[dmi.pris1]

By the way, today the GDP announced a five-year plan of shock capitalist labor .. In the sense of the work of entrepreneurs .. I don’t even know what it is?

[UAZ 452]

He seems to be on his own wave, and he is good there. In principle, he is already as old as Brezhnev was in the late 70s.

[zenion]

Entrepreneurs will receive a meager 99,9% of income, and employees will receive a huge 0,1%. If they survive, after all, in addition to shock work, it will be necessary to protect the poor 99% of the "poor" who live from yacht to yacht and from castle to castle, several times every year.

[Someone_Kakoevich]

It's like with friends - if you do not pay attention to them, then soon they will find new friends for themselves.

[Andrey Dibrov]

So it's okay. Divorced and Nehru to each other to climb with their lives.

[Iran]

We believed that brothers live there, who are the same as us, and therefore they will always support us in everything.

And this is generally funny. Well, okay, even the USSR, with its state propaganda "fraternal peoples" (those who served in the SA remember well the "brotherhood of peoples"). But talking about fraternal peoples now, except for laughter, causes nothing.

I lived in Ukraine from 81 to 90, in different cities, for all the time I never heard from the locals about the fraternal Russian people. Even in Donetsk it was not so simple, but they were saved by their dislike for Westerners.

[ivan2022]

Quote from iran

And this is generally funny. Well, okay, even the USSR, with its state propaganda "fraternal peoples" (those who served in the SA remember well the "brotherhood of peoples"). But talking about fraternal peoples now, except for laughter, causes nothing.

In ... in ..... It's the Bolsheviks' fault. It was also necessary in the USSR to directly tell hohlam in the face who they are ....... That's why Yeltsin was the people's favorite ... He said and did.

The Soviet government tried to turn cattle into people, but remained to blame.... ..Ridiculous! So after all, Christ spoke about the same thing, but they crucified it .. And now commentators seriously write that God was "to blame" then that He was crucified ..... Yes .. since ..... 2 thousand years have passed, but the cattle remained as they were.

But grandfather Pushkin said honestly:
".. Why do the herds need the gifts of freedom?
They need to be cut or sheared" /1823/
Yesterday they cut, today they cut and it's right......

[victor50]

Quote: ivan2022

state propaganda "fraternal peoples" (who served in the SA, he remembers well the "brotherhood of peoples"

And what was wrong with this in SA?

[ivan2022]

Quote: victor50

Quote: ivan2022

state propaganda "fraternal peoples" (who served in the SA, he remembers well the "brotherhood of peoples"

And what was wrong with this in SA?

The nickname was not written that way. You instead of the nickname "iran" inserted "ivan ..." For such tricks in a decent society they beat candelabra in the mug.

[Million]

But does this remove responsibility from our foreign policy system?

Does not remove. Whole and completely fault on Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Putin, Medvedev and Co.

[zenion]

Comrades Lenin and Stalin are to blame. If they hadn’t pulled Russia and the vassals out of the swamp and hadn’t crawled out of there themselves, then this would have been a country of pokabalism for some countries. As a feeding trough of developed imperialism.

[storm]

For foreign policy to the "moon-faced" fat couple with reins ..

[AAK]

And what, for domestic politics, did he deserve a triple with a minus, or what? And there and there count!

[2 Level Advisor]

but I’m just not interested in his opinion .. a man, a millionaire (billionaire), who considers himself a "new nobility", before that an "adept of communism" - let him have his own opinion and broadcast it, his right .. but to me it is not interesting .. I'm not from his "cohort" .. and now I didn’t listen .. I don’t want to spend a minute of my life on him ..

[Andrey Dibrov]

"Well, do you think they were fools" (c)

[Ascetic]

Ukraine is secondary here. Let's remember 2012 and Bolotnaya, and then the elections of Putin and the "Grudinets", who appeared here in the VO like mushrooms after the rain. And to bring final clarity, 2012
ten years agowhen we had rallies on Bolotnaya.
These are the words of US presidential candidate Mitt Romney.
And here is his speech in full
:

“Ladies and gentlemen,” the US presidential candidate began his speech. - Our goal is Russia. The processes taking place today in this country allow us to assume that Russia, literally by touch, is trying to find ways out of the crisis for itself. This wild country, under the leadership of its permanent president Putin, poses a threat not only to the United States. Russia is a threat to all mankind.
The soft actions of Mr. Obama, who set as his goal to destroy Russia by escalating interethnic and interreligious conflicts, only led to the fact that the authorities in this country tightened the screws. Today, President Putin sent to jail the messengers of freedom, musical goddesses from the group Pussy Riot. Today he began to persecute our friend, Mr. Navalny, who topped the list of global thinkers of our time according to Foreign Policy magazine. Persecute because President Putin is afraid of smart people. He is afraid of America and afraid of America's friends. He is afraid that Mr. Navalny could compete with him and win the presidential election. Therefore, his goal was to arrest our friend. We cannot allow this. Only Mr. Navalny is able to give Russia freedom and democracy.

Our primary task, as a nation, is to strengthen the campaign being pursued by the weak-willed Obama administration against Russia. Our task is to make Russia devour itself from within, bringing confusion and discord into the society of this country. What Mr. Navalny couldn’t do today - tomorrow we will be able to do it on many thousands like him.
We will force the Russians to take up arms. We will turn the Chechens, Tatars, Bashkirs, Dagestanis against the Russians. We have to make them fight each other. We must multiply actions aimed at discrediting the Orthodox Church in Russia. Patriarch Kirill can no longer cope with the hopes placed on him. He failed to deprive people of faith in God. He only managed to deprive people of faith in the Church.
And, if none of the above works, we will have no choice but to declare a quick and victorious war on this country. Fast because three months after we stop buying gas and oil from this country, the government of President Putin will have nothing to pay wages to their military. And when we bring our troops into this country, there will be no one to protect it. Because we have long exterminated the spirit of patriotism in Russians, turning them into a nation of vicious, petty and envious subhumans. We made them hate their country, hate each other, hate their own nation. There are no more Russians, we have destroyed them.
We destroyed the USSR, we will destroy Russia too”, [/b

] - so ended his speech 11 years ago, US presidential candidate Mitt Romney.
As you can see, this is a concentrated and very purposeful evil. Presidents change like show hosts, and the [b]machine of Evil is slowly and surely getting to our throats.
We need to become those who are able to resist this. It's time for us to be ourselves again

[Iran]

Maybe stop quoting this fake allegedly said by Mitt Romney?

[Beregovic_1]

In general, realistically written .... Approximately to the middle. More overkill. Fawn. The donkey knows it's fake.

[2 Level Advisor]

in 1x it's fake .. in 2x

Quote: Ascetic

Presidents change like show hosts

he was not the president, we have a lot of people and things said with the "new people" ...

[UAZ 452]

If you pick up quotes from Zhirinovsky, for example, any resident of the United States or the EU will have hair on end: the Russians want to kill us all!

[Donna_Rosa_dAlvadores]

Funny. Especially Westerners have always been hospitable. Bandera did not appear in 1991.

[Stas157]

. for a long time we were “not up to Ukraine”.

And now?
What are the plans now?
I dont know!

[hohol95]

They ALL screamed that they were feeding the RSFSR!
And what happened after 30 years?
Some dumped to clean the European closets ...
Others "drive" drugs into the Russian Federation ...
Still others trading on our markets CURSE the Russian Federation ...
AND WHERE WE SHOULD GO...

[Konnick]

They ALL yelled that they were feeding the RSFSR

I was "lucky" to visit Kiev in 92, there was a spontaneous market on the square in front of the Moscow railway station, elderly women sold food to those leaving. Coupons, it was such a national currency, it has already depreciated one and a half times in a little over a year, i.e. I paid for a return ticket to Moscow with coupons exchanged for rubles from hucksters. The ticket cost one and a half times cheaper. The official price was the same, both in rubles and in coupons. The standard of living in the early 90s went down in our country, but in Ukraine it went down much more than we do. And this infuriated them, they also had "Mriya" to live better than Russians after secession from Russia.
After buying a ticket, I decided to take sausages to "hungry" Moscow at a very favorable price. . I began to buy Kyiv smoked sausage from a pensioner in this spontaneous market, how another woman ran into this pensioner with her fists, shouting - are you selling Ukraine ??!!
They already then began to go crazy from their permanent envy. How so? We were supposed to live better than Russians, but here in a year they began to live one and a half times worse.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

"And here you can talk as much as you like about the destructive nature of the Ukrainian regime, about the fact that one government there is worse than another. But does this remove responsibility from our foreign policy system, which worked according to a program (if there was one at all) concerning our immediate neighbors, after collapse of the USSR?
He is looking in the wrong direction... Does this remove responsibility from the so-called "Ukrainian people"? You know...I used to think that the Ukrainians and we are, in principle, one and the same. But since I woke up from this "friendship of peoples", I learned a lot about the Ukrainians and now I understand the folk sayings about the fact that "three crests are a partisan detachment and a traitor." Who among those present here has not seen a photo of how they met Adolf in Ukraine? You horror from this does not take? Or, as I said, is it just their king like that? And are they good? No ... this is the mentality of the people, which is very difficult to change, and Ukrainians confirm this with enviable frequency.

"He was more than a relative to me,
He ate from the palm of my hand,
And then he looks into the eyes and cold on the back.

[wladimirjankov]

Ukrainians, who would not say the same Russian. only we ourselves abandoned them and abandoned them in the 90s. And our enemies took advantage of this, inspired them that they were not Russians and that they were better than us, smarter, more civilized and worthy of a better life. With Europe, they will be better and more satisfying than with us, because we always have a mess, but there is order. Partly it is. And we ourselves are to blame for the fact that we first divided Russia into national republics, cut them with artificial borders, gave them fictitious names, gave them the right to leave the country, and then allowed all sorts of crooks and traitors to destroy our common homeland. That's all we are now disentangling. We pay for our stupidity, laziness and indifference with internationalism ..

[mixail sherbakov]

Come on, play the fool! It was very much so. They played schemes with gas and everything else, stuffing their pockets.

[Mikhail Maslov]

I wonder why now, and right now, when the war is going on, they suddenly began to look for the roots of evil. The good and smart guys suddenly started writing theories, substantiating, taking up history. And where were you smart and patriotic before the war? Or did they start demolishing the monuments yesterday? And did any nationalist infection get out not noticeably? All the events took place before our eyes and under our very noses. I don’t understand everyone is so smart, but they didn’t see the vector of Ukraine’s policy. an epiphany? Or changing shoes against the backdrop of patriotism? And did this insight come. According to reports from the front, no, it didn’t come.

[Andrey Dibrov]

And who is to blame for those "republics".
They had a chance to calmly land a yanyk somewhere in Luhansk without any problems and declare themselves the "correct" Ukraine, with all the consequences.
Instead, they declared themselves separatists in all sorts of ways. That is, outside the law under any international laws.

[yuriy1863]

This hostile state appeared at our side. We believed that brothers lived there, who were just like us, and therefore they would always support us in everything.

I was born in Dnepropetrovsk and lived there from 1963 to 2016. With the exception of 12 years, when he served in the Navy of the USSR and the Russian Federation. Then, in 2016, he left for Sevastopol with his family. Therefore, I know a lot and have seen a lot, especially in terms of the active transformation of Ukraine into Anti-Russia. Russian diplomats also had a hand in this, either intentionally or through thoughtlessness, and at the lowest level.
I will give examples, perhaps insignificant, but vital, demonstrating the indifference of the Russian diplomatic officials on the ground. And I got the impression that they don’t care so much about everything ... It’s hard to imagine what kind of information such diplomats transmitted to the Russian Foreign Ministry until recently.
So, after being transferred to the reserve, I decided at the Russian Consulate General in Kharkov to document my Russian citizenship. The Consulate General in Kharkiv extended its responsibility to the Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Donetsk and Lugansk regions, and people from these regions, when applying for a Russian passport, had to make an appointment in advance and come to Kharkov at least twice at the time and date set by the Consulate General. Maybe me and those people who came at the same time with me just happened to be unlucky, but on the day we received the passport, we, who arrived by appointment from Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye and Donetsk for 220-300 km, were not served before the end of the working day and, after long hours of waiting, first on the street, and then inside the Consulate General, they were asked to leave the premises, threatening to call the local (Ukrainian) police with a disgruntled call. We achieved an extension of the working day by diplomats and received our passports. It was joyful, although not without sediment.
After. For some reason, my personal file was in the Ukrainian military registration and enlistment office at the place of residence. I officially sent a letter to the Russian Embassy in Ukraine (Kyiv) with a proposal to provide for military registration of Russian citizens permanently residing on the territory of Ukraine at consular offices. When I traveled to the Consulate General, I met many reserve officers like me. That's why I came up with this initiative. But to me, purely bureaucratically, they answered "dummy." And here, in the Ukrainian military registration and enlistment office, upon reaching the age of 50, I was not only removed from the military register, but also assigned the next military rank by order of the "commander of the Navy"! Although, as noted above, I had a Russian passport, I didn’t ask anyone for anything and, of course, I didn’t swear allegiance to Ukraine.
Now I am registered with the military in Sevastopol, and my personal file is in the basement of the archives of the district military registration and enlistment office in Dnepropetrovsk.
Now imagine how many of these reserve officers could be stupidly drafted into the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for the war?
The Russian bureaucracy, especially in the upper echelons, snickered, as once in its time, the Soviet one. Indifference is corroding the country. We need "fresh blood", caring professionals, not ostentatious patriots.
Therefore, both then and today, but with great tension, we need a systematic and well-thought-out policy for the revival of United Russia, primarily on its historical lands, today divided into three states: the Russian Federation, Ukraine and the Republic of Belarus.

[Konnick]

Therefore, I know a lot and have seen a lot, especially in terms of actively remaking Ukraine into Anti-Russia

I am your age, so I am also a witness to the transformation of Russia into anti-communist Russia. I saw and still remember Yeltsin's drunken face on November 6, 91, when he told Gorbachev in the face that he was banning the Communist Party. Russia and Ukraine in the early 90s were engaged in a common cause on the basis of anti-communism, therefore, the demolition of the monument to the communist N.I. Kuznetsov in Lvov was not condemned, nor was the renaming of the streets of the same Lvov in honor of the anti-communists Bandera and Shukhevych. Even the Petlyura and Vlasov flags have a common background. And Nazism in Ukraine is based primarily on anti-communism, and not on nationalism, which was shown by the policy of decommunization in Ukraine, which they were afraid to do in Russia, galoshes interfered, so at first our government did not notice all this. And communism is first and foremost internationalism. We sold ourselves on credit and a mortgage for beads...

[Andrey Dibrov]

There is no need for any potriots. There are laws, regulations, etc.
And the students in practice behind their backs, so that all this is simply formally performed.
A "state" - it's just laws.
No laws - no state

[Katya_Ivanova]

Nonsense! We live like this all our lives. At first we had no time for France, then no time for Turkey and England, then twice no time for Germany. And all because we have nothing to offer the leaders of these natives. Well, we do not produce glass beads or green papers. And that's all they need. And we only have three-liter jars, and they need foreign ones to store their glass beads and green papers somewhere. And then they will shake so that their beads with pieces of paper are not frozen, for their pro-Russian position. And, of course, the Foreign Ministry is to blame for all this.

[Amateur]

"Whose cow would moo, and whose would be silent"
Mikhalkov's films, in which he pissed off the Soviet Union and the Soviet people, occupy not the last place in the formation of that part of Russian society, which can be conditionally called "kolyasurengoy".
And all his current statements are the usual "show off"

[Andrey Dibrov]

Nonsense. The author has sclerosis.
Russia with tribalts ahead of the locomotive from all those Ukrainians, etc. in the 90s.

[Andrey Dibrov]

+
do minusers have bad memory?
___________________________________

[Tikhonov_Alexander]

Author: "We believed that brothers live there." The author, apparently, could, but our people could not think so, knowing that dill has been killing people in the Donbass for 8 years! Our so-called guarantor - GDP - really believes that dill is our brothers. He swelled, according to him, to the outskirts of 200 billion dollars. The outlying rabble is more important to him than his own people. And then wonder - how did it happen! This character and those with whom he leads the country have a very peculiar mental apparatus.

[seacap]

People who have betrayed, lied to, sold the legacy of the once great Motherland that they themselves destroyed, profited by any means from these territories and people, not shunning anything, religiously believing in the omnipotence of the bubble, created an inherited estate society, divided by the abyss of moral, ideological principles, habitat, various laws, ensuring their inviolability and written by themselves for their loved ones. So why do they suddenly wake up in their old age, suddenly wake up and immediately fall in love with their people and without putting their hands on they will immediately begin highly professionally, creatively, and most importantly, proactively and intellectually restore and develop the country and take care of the people who have been despised and feared all their lives, seeing in them only a source of personal enrichment and a threat.
Without the nationalization of the so-called elites, fundamental changes in socio-economic policy, restoration of the education and upbringing system, without an adequate personnel policy based on professionalism, basic education and personal moral, business, personal achievements of intellectual qualities, and not as in
modern "vertical" based on nepotism, personal loyalty and crime, we "will not see good luck", the prospects, to put it mildly, are sad.
It is very likely that if we want at least some kind of future for our descendants, times will come when the guarantor, in order not to repeat the fate of Milosevic, Saddam, Gaddafi, etc., at least Yanukovych, will have to turn to the experience of the person who created the great a state that has been so recklessly poured with mud and slop since the 90s, i.e. to the experience of state building in the 30s and 50s.

[tolmachiev51]

Until we get rid of the plebeian - "we must be loved" !!! this will continue indefinitely. Russia is a self-sufficient country and everything needs to be developed, and for starters, according to the Chinese version, to introduce the death penalty for embezzlers of all stripes.

[Oleg133]

The Russian Federation and inside the Russian Federation are against the Russians, why would it also support the Russians outside the Russian Federation. Even 10 years ago, the word Russian in Russia was used only with the words drunk and fascist.
And today, for example, there is a Russian from Kazakhstan who fought from the age of 14, lost his leg, but could not obtain Russian citizenship (unlike hundreds of thousands of Tajiks) and went to prison in Kazakhstan as a mercenary

Ps
And where are these hundreds of thousands of new Russians at the front?

[Oleg133]

Quote: yuriy1863

in terms of the active remaking of Ukraine into Anti-Russia. Russian diplomats also had a hand in this, either intentionally or through thoughtlessness.

There is no nonsense there...
Standard Model
Those who govern the Russian Federation hate Russians to the point of pain in their eyes
Any of their pain is pleasant to them

[ivan2022]

Quote: Oleg133

Those who govern the Russian Federation hate Russians to the point of pain in their eyes
Any of their pain is pleasant to them

Brilliant! Now explain why those who govern Israel treat the Jews well, and the Japanese Emperor and the Japanese Prime Minister treat the Japanese?
And even the ruler of Belarus, Lukashenka, treats the Belarusians well? Until you find a convincing answer, all patriotic blah ..... blah ..... are not worth a penny.

[Vashek]

Lost UA in thirty years. Nobody thought about the future. Rowing grandmas, drove gas. What could be the use of the ambassadors: Chernomyrdin (interest only in gas) or Zurabov (Poroshenko's business sidekick).
That's all and pros..li.

[Illanatol]

Quote: Konnick

Russia and Ukraine in the early 90s were engaged in a common cause on the basis of anti-communism, therefore, the demolition of the monument to the communist N.I. Kuznetsov in Lvov was not condemned, nor was the renaming of the streets of the same Lvov in honor of the anti-communists Bandera and Shukhevych. Even the Petlyura and Vlasov flags have a common background. And Nazism in Ukraine is based primarily on anti-communism, and not on nationalism, which was shown by the policy of decommunization in Ukraine, which they were afraid to do in Russia, galoshes interfered, so at first our government did not notice all this.

Partly true. And, characteristically, anti-communist Ukraine and the anti-communist Russian Federation then got along well, on the whole. But then (under Putin) our paths began to diverge more and more, anti-communism in Ukraine began to overlap with Russophobia. Ukry began to believe that the level of "sovietness" began to grow in the Russian Federation ... perhaps there are real reasons for this?

[Illanatol]

Quote: ivan2022

Brilliant! Now explain why those who govern Israel treat the Jews well, and the Japanese Emperor and the Japanese Prime Minister treat the Japanese?

And how do you know this? Are you sure that all the actions of the local elite are aimed at the benefit of ordinary people?
Any elite in any class society is guided solely by its own interests. If in these interests it is necessary to take care of the "biomass" - they will show care. And if, in the interests of the elite, it is necessary to send part of the "biomass" for slaughter or worsen the financial situation of the latter, he will do this without hesitation. In short, everything is determined by the interests and motivation of the elites, nothing else. And all sorts of "national interests" there are just a propaganda stamp, nothing more. Since the shepherds and the flock of sheep they graze are not a single nation, in essence.

[zenion]

Not only was it before Ukraine, but it wasn’t, they didn’t want to know that there is a poor Russian people. How many will die out, so many will die out, which means they were not suitable for the new Russia. The rest will be rich. This is a slogan that will not be rejected today. These in the rich, the rest for soap, or smoke.

[wladimirjankov]

We ourselves, the Russians of our generation, are to blame for allowing rogues and traitors to ruin our great country and give our blood lands into the hands of their enemies, not only in Ukraine, but also in Belarus, Kazakhstan, the Baltic states, for which our ancestors gave millions of their lives, blood , sweat and deprivation. This is what we are paying for now. This will be a lesson for us and future generations that in our world it is impossible to be stupid and naive and never give anything of yours to anyone.