"Grand", "Big Baltic", "Russian Knight" - but what's the difference, if brilliant?

73
"Grand", "Big Baltic", "Russian Knight" - but what's the difference, if brilliant?

1913 was a milestone year for stories world aviation. It would seem that the airplane had just taken off the ground, and the height began to gain no worse than the rockets of later times. In 1913, the first international seaplane competition for the Schneider Cup took place in Monaco, the great Russian pilot Pyotr Nikolaevich Nesterov performed his “dead loop” for the first time, the great Frenchman Roland Garros made the first non-stop flight across the Mediterranean Sea, flying over 8 km in 700 hours, American Georgia "Tiny" Broadwick becomes the first woman to parachute out of an airplane, jumping over Los Angeles, and for the first time the multi-engine aircraft of the great Russian aircraft designer Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky, the twin-engine (after four-engine) Russian Knight and the four-engine Ilya Muromets, took to the skies.

But the story began much earlier, on May 25, 1889 in the city of Kiev, when the fifth child was born in the family of a famous psychiatrist, professor of the Department of Mental and Nervous Diseases of Kiev University Ivan Alekseevich Sikorsky and Maria Stefanovna Sikorskaya, nee Temryuk-Cherkasova, who was named Igor.



In history, of course, there were people who did as much or more for aviation than Sikorsky, but still, the multi-engine layout of a heavy aircraft and a helicopter is more than enough for the title of a great designer and a long and grateful memory of the entire aviation community.

Namely, in 1913, not just another new airplane flew, it was just possible to surprise, but difficult, but a huge four-engine aircraft at that time. The world press fell into a black precipitate, because Russia by no means could boast of a developed aircraft industry, which consisted of several semi-handicraft workshops where imported airplanes were repaired. And the Russian plane, and even such ...

Wouldn't you have yelled at that time? Yes, the voice would be broken, I'm sure.

What can I say, if Emperor Nicholas II himself rushed to look at the curiosity, then what can we say about the townsfolk?

And yes, the occasion was… it was really huge!


Probably, it is worth giving a general plan of the Russian aircraft industry of that time. The first plant was the Moscow Dux, which assembled its first airplane in 1909 and proudly bore the name of the First Imperial Aircraft Building Plant. In St. Petersburg, the first was the "First Russian Association of Aeronautics", created in 1910 (since 1915, the Gamayun plant). The third was the "Russian-Baltic Carriage Works", abbreviated as "Russo-Balt", famous for its luxurious cars.

At Russo-Balt there were aviation workshops, which were led by the smartest person of that time, in fact the father of strategic aviation, Mikhail Vladimirovich Shidlovsky. A man who foresaw the role of bomber aviation in wars and believed in the genius of Igor Sikorsky.


In the photo, Shidlovsky stands second to the right of the bomb, with such a beard. And the second from the left is the young Sikorsky.

Unfortunately, the father of the idea of ​​​​strategic and long-range aviation, the commander of the first division of heavy bombers, the author of the strategy for the use of bomber aviation, who put it into practice, the head of the creation of the Russian Knight, Ilya Muromets and the first Russian aircraft engine in April 1917 was accused of incompetence, removed from his post and recalled to Petrograd, and on June 20 he was dismissed from service. The materials of criminal case No. 9964 of the archives of the FSB Directorate for St. Petersburg and the Leningrad Region indicate that Mikhail Shidlovsky was arrested in 1919 by degenerates in leather jackets on charges of espionage and shot on January 14, 1921.

Without Shidlovsky's help, Sikorsky would not have been able to realize his projects, because Shidlovsky not only provided Sikorsky with production facilities, but also found funding for his developments.

And what Sikorsky proposed was very bold. Moreover, not only for Russia, which is backward in terms of aviation, but for the whole world. Twin-engine aircraft were already in development, designers from many countries fought with them. So a twin-engine aircraft was not something surprising, rather, difficult to achieve. Because Sikorsky ventured to swing at a four-engine aircraft. Moreover, Shidlovsky organized the purchase of four Argus engines with a power of as much as 100 hp each.

And in 1910 Sikorsky went to work.

The plane turned out to be very large. Huge. Therefore, he was immediately given the nickname "Grand", that is, big. And it was under this name that the airplane made its first flight in a twin-engine configuration. And when Sikorsky made it four-engine, the name was changed: "Big Russian-Baltic". The final "Russian Knight" appeared even later, let's say it was already a purely marketing ploy.


There were a lot of problems during the construction, but perhaps the main one could be called the information war that broke out around the Grand. Disputes at that time were about as commonplace as Internet battles are today. Moreover, the "experts" were approximately the same degree of awareness.

For example, "aviation experts" a hundred years ago seriously said that a large aircraft would not be able to fly for many reasons. But at that time it was believed that the lift force of the wing is the result of the rejection of air particles by the leading edge, and therefore increasing the chord over some accepted values ​​is meaningless.

It’s just that in 1910 they didn’t know yet that most of the lift is obtained due to rarefaction over the upper part of the wing, created by flowing around a profiled bearing surface. Therefore, there were many arguments of varying degrees of gaiety. More than enough.

For example, very often they cited ... an ostrich as an example! Say, the bird is heavy, and therefore does not fly. And a heavy aircraft is completely from the same opera.

In general, the trolls were already then, thank God, there was no Internet. But even without that, Sikorsky had a hard time, because all these very (and not very) scientific societies demanded respect and answers to questions.

"... the future of aviation belongs to heavy, but high-speed vehicles, which, with their enormous speed and mass, will give the aviator reliable support in the air ...".

“Great mass and speed are the key to the future of aviation. No need to be afraid of big heavy machines! Give them speed and you will launch the wagon into the air. The changeability of the pilot in the air, the independence of the flight from stopping the engines, the maintenance of them in the air - these are the enormous advantages of large vehicles ... "

(From Sikorsky's speech at the Second All-Russian Aeronautical Congress in 1912)

Despite all the confidence of Sikorsky and Shidlovsky, there were more skeptics and in the end they even formulated a number of reasons why a large plane would not be able to fly normally:

1. The results obtained during the operation of conventional airplanes cannot be transferred to large ones.
(It is very difficult to say why the identity rules should not work here, the history of the arguments did not save us)

2. An airplane can be so heavy that it won't be able to get off the ground despite its huge wings. And if it breaks off, due to inertia, it will be impossible to control it in the air, and even more so when landing.
(Not without reason, this has happened in history. However, the fault was not so much the ratio of engine power to the mass of the airplane, but ignorance of aerodynamics)

3. Multi-engine power plant will create many problems. If at least one engine fails, the traction balance will be so disturbed that it will become impossible to control the machine.
(Again, a lack of information. Examples were given of variants of airplanes that had two propellers driven by one motor. If one of the drive chains broke, then the airplane usually crashed)

4. A closed cockpit will deprive the pilot of the ability to feel the force and direction of the air flow and will not allow timely intervention in the control of the machine.
(There was also a rational grain in these doubts, because the instrumentation was in its infancy, and the pilots really oriented along the flow. But here the “trick” is that Sikorsky himself was just a great pilot who perfectly felt the car and the air flow to him as a carrier of information was not very helpful)

At that time, work on multi-engine aircraft was already in full swing. But the idea was somewhat different: try to rotate one propeller with two weak engines. So did the British from Short and the Germans from Linke-Hoffman. But they all worked with two engines for one propeller through a complex transmission, and therefore there was no success.

More rational was the decision of another genius of engineering, the Russian inventor and designer Boris Grigoryevich Lutsky. On the Lutsky-1910 aircraft built by him in 2 at the German company Daimler, there were two engines, which were located one after the other and set two coaxial propellers in rotation. The plane turned out to be successful and was considered at that time one of the largest in the world.


But to install the engines on the wing ... It was too much. This frightened many both in Russia and abroad.

The general assembly of the "Grand" was carried out at the Komendantsky airfield and was completed by the beginning of March 1913. The aircraft caused amazement with its dimensions: the span of the upper wing was 27 m, the lower wing - 20 m, the total area of ​​\u125b\u3bwings - XNUMX square meters. m, the take-off weight of the aircraft is more than XNUMX tons. Really the largest in the world at that time.


Four Argus engines, 100 hp each. With. located in tandem installations on the lower wing near the fuselage. This was done in case of failure of one of the engines in order to minimize the turning moment. In addition, the vertical tail was made with a convex-concave profile, the convex side to the fuselage, and in the event of an engine failure, the profile keel, blown by the flow from the propellers of the operating engines, provided a restoring moment. The existing risk was constructively minimized.

The location of the engines on the wing contributed to an increase in the useful volume of the cabin. The nose of the fuselage was made in the form of an open balcony, behind which there was a fully glazed cockpit 5,75 m long and 1,85 m high. There were two places for pilots in the cockpit, behind them a glass partition with a door to the passenger compartment, behind which there was a wash basin and toilet. There were several wicker chairs and a table in the salon.


The chassis was impressive: carts of eight twin wheels each, equipped with cord shock absorbers, were attached between the skids.

The control of the aircraft was duplicated, but the control of the engines was on the left, at the crew commander. It is still there today, the place of the commander.

By the beginning of March 1913, the front engines were mounted, and the excellent pilot Sikorsky decided to make the first flight on two engines. On March 15, several runs and a small approach were made, but then the tests stalled due to the airfield, which had become muddy in the spring.

In early April, the Grand and the airfield were again ready for testing. During the month, several runs and flights were made within the airfield. The takeoff run of the "Grand" was about 400 meters, the plane took off easily, but the size affected, the control was somewhat sluggish.

A few words about the innovation - a closed cabin. At that time, there was a real ability of pilots to control an airplane, focusing on the oncoming air flow. The pressure testified to the speed, the change in the direction of the flow - to the side slip. And being guided in this way, the pilots reacted with rudders. They talked about the "bird instinct", which is not given to everyone. But in those days, pilots were akin to celestials.

The closed cockpit deprived the pilot of all the sensations associated with the air flow, and required him to navigate by instruments, which, so to speak, were few and the quality was not the best.

Sikorsky in his plane tried to equip to the maximum:
- compass;
- four tachometers from four engines;
- two aneroid altimeters;
- two anemometers to determine the speed;
- slip indicator (tube with a ball inside);
- pitch indicator (the same tube, but in a different plane);
- two indicators of the amount of fuel.

In general, everything is rather primitive, but in 1913 this magnificence was a very breakthrough thing. Aircraft of that time sometimes had much less instruments. But even such a set made it possible to fly an airplane out of sight of the horizon.

On April 27, Sikorsky set the Grand to the start. The first flight was through the airfield in a straight line, the plane took off normally, gained a height of about 10 meters and a speed of 80 km/h. They no longer gave the dimensions of the airfield, after which Sikorsky landed the airplane. The power of the two "Argus" was clearly not enough, but nevertheless, the plane was ready to fly in a circle.


And in the evening of the same day, a very long day for Igor Ivanovich on April 27, at about 22 p.m., the Grand stood up for the start for the second time. Mechanic V.I. Panasyuk was on the "balcony", the co-pilot G.V. Yankovsky was in his place in the cockpit.

Just like in the morning, the Grand accelerated and took off from the ground.


There was a complete calm, and in such conditions the plane began to gain altitude. Yes, two engines gave little power and the climb was slow, but gradually Sikorsky was able to gain a height of 100 meters and make the first turn. The plane was moving along the horizon at a speed of 80 km / h and obeyed the rudders well. Of course, the reaction was slower than that of single-engine vehicles, but this is understandable: an airship is not an airplane weighing 300-400 kg.

Sikorsky flew in a circle, leaving the airfield for about one and a half kilometers. He returned to the airfield and landed, as they say, in the normal mode. After landing, the mechanic examined the landing gear, everything was in order, it was possible to taxi to the hangar, but the engines had to be turned off: a huge crowd of people watching the flight was rushing onto the plane.

Sikorsky turned off the engines. The crew went out to the “balcony”, and a huge number of people rejoiced around, who were so happy about the flight that it seemed that they, and not the crew, were participants in the test. The plane was impossible to budge. Sikorsky tried to pass through the crowd, but he, along with Yankovsky and Panasyuk, was picked up and carried to Shidlovsky. All supporters of big planes were immensely happy - the big plane proved its ability to fly.


Next was the installation of the second pair of engines. After a few days of adjustment, Sikorsky felt it was safe to fly again. The flight was scheduled for May 6th.


On the day of the flight, a very strong (18-20 m/s) wind blew. Flights were canceled altogether, and the planes were in hangars or tied to corkscrews. However, Igor Ivanovich decided that the wind was not a hindrance to a heavy machine and gave the order to start.

Due to the strong headwind, the speed relative to the ground was almost not felt, but the car climbed well compared to the previous flight. In flight, Sikorsky successfully parried rolls that caused gusts of wind, and his theory of inertia was confirmed. On four engines, the Grand calmly gained a height of 200 meters and gave out 90 km / h of speed. The rear engines added inertia, but the airplane became noticeably more powerful.

The flight went well, and after the press gave Sikorsky a uniform ovation.

"The aviator Sikorsky managed to build a huge airplane, which is destined to play an outstanding role in the history of world aviation as the first successful attempt to build an airplane adapted to carry many passengers and equipped with a whole group of independent engines."

Then Sikorsky made a number of flights over the city, moreover, with a "load" of passengers from among fellow pilots. The plane showed that it can fly perfectly on two engines.

On May 13 and 27, Sikorsky performed very long (up to an hour) flights, having 3-4 passengers on board. This tested various options for centering the aircraft, the passengers played the role of a moving ballast, moving around the cockpit and going out to the balcony.

The flights gave a huge amount of information, having processed which, Sikorsky in June 1913 made a landmark decision: to abandon the tandem engine layout, since the rear propeller, being in the air flow from the front, gave less power. The tandem arrangement was beneficial in case of failure of one of the engines, since such a scheme made it possible to compensate for the asymmetry of thrust. But Sikorsky decided to take such a step, especially since no one in the world has yet tried to compare the capabilities of one car with different engine arrangements.

And the rear engines were removed and installed in a row on the lower wing.


The first flight of the "Big Baltic" with in-line engines was made on June 23, 1913. The rearrangement significantly improved take-off performance and gave some increase in speed and rate of climb.

About the plane became known at the very top, and, being in Tsarskoye Selo, Emperor Nicholas II wished to inspect the plane. On June 25, Sikorsky flew to Tsarskoye Selo, to the local airfield, and there Nicholas II saw the Bolshoi.

The tsar walked around the plane, Sikorsky accompanied him, answering questions. Later, Igor Ivanovich recalled that he was extremely surprised that the emperor asked questions on the merits, demonstrating knowledge of the aviation topic, quite decent from an engineering point of view.

Having examined the plane from the outside, Nikolai wished to board. The tsar and the designer climbed onto the balcony by a ladder and there they were photographed by the court photographer.


Nicholas II was very impressed with what he saw and was so pleased with Sikorsky's answers that he sent the designer a gold watch as a gift.


On the same day, Sikorsky tested his offspring in a blind flight. Returning to the Corps airfield, "Bolshoi" got into a rain band, so heavy (Oh, Peter!), That the glass was flooded with water, not giving any visibility. However, using the set of instruments with which he equipped the aircraft, Sikorsky was able to go to the airfield and land without incident.

After these successes, in an interview with Birzhevye Vedomosti, Sikorsky formulated and explained his tasks as a designer:

“Of all that I have managed to do so far, the Grand should be considered the largest. After all, everything that has been so far is nothing more than air kayaks. I have long dreamed of an airship. Starting to build it, I definitely set out to introduce three main principles into the equipment of an aircraft, namely:
1) on a long-distance air journey, the pilot must be able to change on the fly;
2) stopping the engine on the way should not decide the fate of the pilot, aviator and passenger;
3) the possibility of caring for the motor on the road, fixing it on the go.

I have achieved all this, and this may give a new direction in the design of apparatuses. When building the Grand, of course, I also had military purposes in mind. For the time being, we spare this apparatus and keep it for great experiments. After almost every flight, I make some changes and corrections. So, after the last flight, I changed the position of the four motors installed on the device, thanks to which I was able to increase the thrust. He also added two new rudders, built a flying laboratory on the apparatus. In a word, every time you notice something new and rush to immediately make an amendment. Next week I will start flying this aircraft again. Studying it in action, I find that it fully justified the hopes that I had placed in it.


The third point was checked by Sikorsky's crew during the next month. In one of the flights, the rear mount of one of the engines burst, and it could break off the wing. Mechanic Parasyuk, having collected belts from all those on board, went out onto the wing and, with the help of belts, somehow pulled the engine into the frame. The viability of in-line placement of engines on the wing and access to them during the flight were finally proven in practice.

"Big Baltic" made many flights over St. Petersburg. There was a flight to Gatchina and back with four passengers. The length of the route was as much as 100 km. Shortly after this flight, the aircraft was finally renamed the Russian Knight. On August 2, 1913, Sikorsky set a world flight record: 1 hour and 54 minutes.


There were seven people on board the plane. Many people watched these flights of the giant, and soon the Grand received a new name - the Russian Knight. It used to be sometimes called that way, but now this name has finally been established.

The end of the "Russian Knight"

In the same August, the Vityaz was removed from the hangar. August turned out to be rainy, and the new Russo-Balta aircraft, the S-10 biplane and the S-11 monoplane, were delivered to the hangar. There were competitions that were arranged by the Russian military department and on which the package of possible orders and the reputation of the plant depended. The airplanes were designed by Sikorsky, but his participation in the flights was not supposed, the factory pilots were supposed to fly.

On September 11, in the evening, in front of Sikorsky, the engine of the plane piloted by his longtime rival in competition, Gaber-Vlynsky, broke off and fell on the biplane box of the Vityaz.


It is noteworthy that Gaber-Vlynsky fought for his life to the last and fell along with the plane, but not only remained alive, he also escaped with minor injuries.

But the "Vityaz" received heavy damage. The wing was practically destroyed, and Sikorsky decided not to repair it. By that time, the aircraft had made 53 flights with a total duration of more than 11 hours, and these flights provided simply a huge amount of invaluable information. Moreover, Igor Ivanovich himself was working on a more advanced machine by that time.

So the "Russian Knight" should be considered the ancestor of all multi-engine aircraft in the world.

The second to follow the example of Sikorsky was the no less great Italian engineer Giovanni Battista Caproni. Already after the creation of the Grand, Caproni built his Sa-30, but in his plane three engines rotated three propellers, but the first was pusher, and the pullers in the wings were driven through a very complex transmission, from engines located in the gondola with the crew.


And this creation could not be considered successful. Only by placing the engines on the wings, in the Sa-31 and Sa-34 aircraft, did Caproni achieve what he wanted in 1914.


Today, May 25, marks 134 years since the birth of the great aircraft designer Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky, who entered Russia into the history of world aviation and put it on a par with the aviation powers recognized at that time.

LTH "Grand"


Wingspan, m
- top: 27,00
- lower: 20,00

Length, m: 20,00
Wing area, м2: 125,00

Weight, kg
- empty aircraft: 3 400
- normal takeoff: 4 000

Engines: 4 x "Argus" x 100 hp
Maximum speed km / h: 100
Cruising speed, km / h: 77
Practical range, km: 170
Practical ceiling, m: 600
Crew, prs: 3
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

73 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +6
    26 May 2023 03: 54
    Today, May 25, marks 134 years since the birth of the great aircraft designer Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky
    Until his death, he regretted that he had left Russia ....
    1. +4
      26 May 2023 04: 32
      Uh-huh, and after the death of the statesman Sikorsky, an ardent supporter of the one and the indivisible, they paint it yellow-blaky ... Irony, but bitter
      1. -1
        26 May 2023 08: 45
        The Russian Land has always been famous for nugget people.
        But all sorts of revolutions, purges, perestroika forced them to emigrate or simply removed from life.
        After all, Sikorsky was also planned to be arrested after the revolution, and only one of the workers was able to warn him, after which he fled to Finland.
        Why is this not in the article?
        How much benefit he would have brought if he had simply not been interfered with.
        The nugget, unfortunately, embodied his ideas in a foreign country.
        1. +7
          26 May 2023 10: 50
          After all, Sikorsky was also planned to be arrested after the revolution.
          what seriously? Have you heard the phrase "Philosophical steamboat"? Of course no. And where and how did they set off, too, no? Of course no.
          Apparently -

          they drank while Sikorsky and the others sat on the wharfs and railway stations with suitcases. Here, for example, in St. Petersburg -

          And .. who forced them? Here, General Karbyshev did not run away, General Brusilov, the gunsmith Fedorov and many other tsarist generals and not only.
          But all sorts of revolutions, purges, perestroika forced them to emigrate or simply removed from life.
          But they also gave way to many others (I'm not talking about perestroika)
          How much benefit would it bring
          got along without it. And even easily - Mikoyan, Gurevich, Tupolev, Lavochkin, Yakovlev, Petlyakov .... do their names mean anything? Or does the crunch of the bun overshadow everything? fool laughing
          1. +3
            26 May 2023 15: 27
            Polikarpov and Tupolev, the second after Sikorsky.
            It seems that Tupolev was a student of Sikorsky
            1. +3
              26 May 2023 16: 07
              It seems that Tupolev was a student of Sikorsky
              ..yes .. a biplane with the speed of a cart is the same as the Tu-2 and further upward. Moreover, without foreign engines ... (there were no analogues of which were produced in the "advanced" Republic of Ingushetia), all the brainchildren of Sikorsky would never have flown. And they built only about a hundred pieces .. which, against the background of Germany, France and England, is nothing at all. And then .. not everyone flew far .. "read at least some primer on history or something!" all damn emotions think "uncles with shoulder straps"
          2. +4
            26 May 2023 16: 01
            Well .. judging by the minuses and comments (not only here), the remnants of common sense are leaving VO.yu. Approximately the same I saw on the Khokhlyat YouTube channel where they broadcast about the complete destruction of our reconnaissance ship off the coast of Turkey .. and how are YOU different from those who's there? yes nothing..
          3. -1
            27 May 2023 02: 04
            Quote: Region-25.rus
            Mikoyan, Gurevich, Tupolev, Lavochkin, Yakovlev, Petlyakov.... do the names mean anything? Or does the crunch of the bun overshadow everything?

            Tupolev and Petlyakov from your list are inmates of Stalin's Gulag. Surely, after their arrest, they envied the fate of Sikorsky.
          4. 0
            27 May 2023 18: 03
            and the aircraft designer Kalinin that they didn’t remember? does not fit into your picture of the world?
        2. +4
          26 May 2023 17: 00
          The Russian Land has always been famous for nugget people.
          But all sorts of revolutions, purges, perestroika forced them to emigrate or simply removed from life.
          So in modern times, without any revolution, one of the talented and educated people is killed by criminals, or, for example:
          Scientists are not needed, smart ones too
          Ivan Rybin

          https://svpressa.ru/society/article/373993/
          1. +1
            26 May 2023 17: 23
            I called the cause , revolutions , purges , perestroika .
            Talented people should at least not interfere. Although they should receive only support from the state.
            But at all times there were competitors and envious people who tried in every possible (and impossible) way to remove these nuggets from the people from the road.
            Believe me, this happened not only in Russia.
            That's why Omerika is trying to lure all the talented?
            And they create all the conditions for work.
            The Russian authorities, educational institutions and enterprises should do the same.
            1. +4
              26 May 2023 17: 32
              Quote: Blacksmith 55
              That's why Omerika is trying to lure all the talented?

              Because there are very, very few people who are creative, thinking, and even having a fantasy. I studied at three schools, plus a college - and there were one person in each class and two on the course. All! I know that at Mekhmats and Physics and Mathematics, future graduates begin spud already from the fourth or fifth courses. And, as it is not a shame, not our companies, but foreign ones ...
            2. Alf
              +2
              26 May 2023 19: 51
              Quote: Blacksmith 55
              And they create all the conditions for work.

              Igor Sikorsky founded his company four years after his arrival in America. Behind the big name Sikorsky Aero Engineering Corporation was a small group of enthusiasts, former immigrants, who volunteered to help Sikorsky design a new aircraft.

              Details were collected in landfills. In the course were old car bumpers, corners of metal beds. The workshop was organized on Long Island, on a chicken farm that belonged to one of the former Russian pilots. They lived there too.

              Once a Russian composer Sergey Rakhmaninov appeared on the farm.

              “He was very interested in his father's work. Rachmaninoff went around everything, examined the plane, talked with Sikorsky for several minutes, and then said: “I trust you” and wrote out a check for five thousand dollars, ”one of Sikorsky’s sons shares his memories. A few weeks later, Rachmaninov accepted the position of vice president of the company.

              Thanks to this help, enthusiasts managed to rent a more convenient room for work - a real hangar at a nearby airfield. Igor Sikorsky finished building his first aircraft in America in 1924.

              Where did America help him there?
              1. +1
                27 May 2023 02: 09
                Quote: Alf
                Where did America help him there?

                The fact that she did not dispossess Rachmaninov and did not prevent a native of a foreign country from building a private plane. In the USSR, for a long time it was forbidden to build aircraft for fear that their designers would flee abroad.
                1. +2
                  27 May 2023 15: 20
                  In the USSR, for a long time it was forbidden to build aircraft for fear that their designers would flee abroad.
                  you can immediately see .. modern .. admirer of Stefanov-Katz-Varlamov and others ... google .. how many hang-gliders, gliders and other things were built in the Stalinist USSR. How many flying clubs and other things fool
            3. +2
              26 May 2023 20: 36
              Quote: Blacksmith 55
              That's why Omerika is trying to lure all the talented?
              And they create all the conditions for work.

              Maxim: survived from the USA, left, founded production in England.
              Browning - arms magnates survived from the USA, left, founded production in Belgium
              Lewis - see above, also in England.
              ____________
              Therefore, in the USA for over 100 years they have not been able to make a single normal machine gun, the last one from the time of the First World War.
              Is it enough, or should I add more about the conditions for talented people in Omeryg?
      2. +1
        26 May 2023 16: 04
        statesman Sikorsky
        I would have been a statesman .. I wouldn’t have dumped for the "sausage" for okIyan ... but remained like others to help build a state of a new formation. And so .. well, he dumped and dumped. There were others
    2. TIR
      +6
      26 May 2023 05: 06
      From the point of view of creative work, it was in the USSR that he had more opportunities to realize all his ideas. In the West, a result was needed to obtain contracts, in the USSR, nevertheless, the designers fought among themselves with wider variants of machines. Moreover, in the metal design bureau could afford revolutionary models
      1. +10
        26 May 2023 13: 15
        Quote: TIR
        From the point of view of creative work, it was in the USSR that he had more opportunities to realize all his ideas.

        Yeah ... like Grigorovich. Or Polikarpov. Or Bartini. Until the mid-30s - perhaps, but not guaranteed. In the second half - sharaga or worse.
        Sikorsky in the Union would be considered an old specialist. And he could well fall under one of the cases on them - fortunately, the way to resolve scientific and practical disputes by denunciating an opponent in Inquisitio Haereticae Pravitatis Sanctum Officium in the scientific and technical environment has been practiced for centuries.
    3. 0
      27 May 2023 18: 50
      And from what sources is it known about his regret?
  2. +9
    26 May 2023 05: 40
    It’s just that in 1910 they didn’t know yet that most of the lift is obtained due to rarefaction over the upper part of the wing, created by flowing around a profiled bearing surface

    If this were not known, then there would be no aviation until now ...
  3. +8
    26 May 2023 08: 59
    Unfortunately, the father of the idea of ​​​​strategic and long-range aviation, the commander of the first division of heavy bombers, the author of the strategy for the use of bomber aviation, who put it into practice, the head of the creation of the Russian Knight, Ilya Muromets and the first Russian aircraft engine in April 1917 was accused in incompetence, removed from his post and recalled to Petrograd, and on June 20 he was dismissed from service.
    And why did he not please the provisional government? Maybe there was something to shoot for?
  4. +7
    26 May 2023 09: 03
    About the aviation industry of that time. At that time, nothing was known about the stability and controllability of aircraft. The same "Ilya Muromets" was statically unstable, but thanks to intuition, Sikorsky designed it in such a way that the period of its turning over was 14 seconds, the pilot worked out this pitching moment with the control stick all the time.
    1. -1
      26 May 2023 20: 12
      ... - damn! I did not know that without a wind tunnel at THAT TIME, IN THE IMPIRIC WAY, it was possible to create an apparatus with the "stability" and "controllability" of the AN-2 and the "maneuverability" of the Yak-52 - ... good fellow!
      Thank you "ENLIGHTER" aviation!
      Sit down - 2 for "KNOWLEDGE" on the history of the WORLD aircraft industry and design of THAT time ...
      (... Have you glued AT LEAST ONE flying model?! For example: - a model of a glider of category A-2 "AB-1961" ???!) - ...
      Maybe SOMETHING they did with their "hands" besides "replacing light bulbs in the apartment" - ...
  5. +5
    26 May 2023 09: 09
    with 3-4 passengers on board.
    An airfield mongrel named Shkalik visited as a passenger Yes Probably the first ever dog on an airplane.
  6. +1
    26 May 2023 09: 13
    Quote: TIR
    From the point of view of creative work, it was in the USSR that he had more opportunities to realize all his ideas. In the West, a result was needed to obtain contracts, in the USSR, nevertheless, the designers fought among themselves with wider variants of machines. Moreover, in the metal design bureau could afford revolutionary models

    Not everything is so simple with the contract system in the US. Often money could be allocated for the idea of ​​a person with authority in his field. And there is no need to idealize the Soviet system, the same competition, intrigues, etc. Meanwhile, a more developed industry in the United States provided more opportunities. As an example, the Yak-3 and Thunderbolt, the Yak is the most lightweight and licked car because there was no powerful engine, but during the construction of the Thunderbolt, they immediately relied on a powerful motor. If everything were fine in the USSR, they would not copy the B-29 and would not discuss copying the Saber.
    1. +5
      26 May 2023 16: 11
      Everything is fine in the USSR
      who and when said that "everything was fine in the USSR?" fool And yes .. Mig-15 fought practically on equal terms with the Saber. Differences (alas) were in electronics
    2. +4
      26 May 2023 18: 16
      If everything were fine in the USSR, they would not copy the B-29 and would not discuss copying the Saber.
      Well, if the USSR continuously profited from wars on other continents, then everything would definitely be fine with it. By the way, there were no long-range bombers in Nazi Germany either, their blitzkrieg strategy was quite satisfied with Yu-87
      1. Alf
        +1
        26 May 2023 19: 58
        Quote: Aviator_
        By the way, there were no long-range bombers in Nazi Germany either,

        Massively-Yes, but after the 43rd projects were flooded, albeit belatedly.
        1. +1
          26 May 2023 20: 02
          Massively-Yes, but after the 43rd projects were flooded, albeit belatedly.
          More like a publicity stunt. Only a diversion of funds from the production of front-line aviation, which was good for us.
  7. +8
    26 May 2023 09: 36
    Unfortunately, the father of the idea of ​​​​strategic and long-range aviation, the commander of the first division of heavy bombers, the author of the strategy for the use of bomber aviation, who put it into practice, the head of the creation of the Russian Knight, Ilya Muromets ...
    In fact, the idea was erroneous and was not developed.
    Alas, it was only a momentary glory. The four-engined wooden biplane represented a dead end in the development of aviation. The all-metal Junkers monoplanes of 1915-1918 became the main direction. Tupolev, who created the first Soviet all-metal bomber TB-1, also followed this path.
    "Ilya Muromets" of the last issue (1916) had a takeoff weight of 5500 kg, a bomb load of up to 500 kg. Four Bedmore engines with a capacity of 160 hp each. each allowed him to reach a maximum speed of 130 km / h. The flight range was 540 km.
    The German Linke-Hofmann R1 bomber had a take-off weight of 12 kg, a bomb load of 300 tons, four Daimler engines of 8 hp each, and a maximum speed of 260 km/h.
    In 1914-1917, 66 Ilya Muromets aircraft of various modifications were built, of which 61 aircraft were accepted by the military. Alas, only due to technical problems, 20 machines failed and were decommissioned.
    With the beginning of the war, all "Muromets" were brought into the Squadron of airships. For the first time "Murome" took part in the battles in 1915. In total, about 1915 sorties were made in 1917-400, about 10 sorties per month.
    The squadron dropped 65 tons of bombs on the enemy. Is it a lot or a little? Only one German KG3 (Kampfgeschwader - combat squadron), armed with Gotha G.IV twin-engine bombers, made 1918 night raids on London in 22, dropping 85 tons of bombs on the city.

    in the same article it is interesting about helicopters
    However, the No. 1 helicopter pilot in the United States was Frank Nicholas Piasecki. His first PV-2 helicopter took off on April 11, 1943. It was followed by the famous helicopters H-21, CH-46 Sea Knight, CH-47 Chinook and others.
    Why doesn't anyone in Russia know about Piasecki? After all, his family was from Russia. Yes, because his family fled from Russia among the seven millionth emigration, draped from Nicholas II in 1894-1914. And in 1918-1922, less than a million people fled from Russia from Lenin, Denikin, Petliura and Makhno.
    Thousands of outstanding people from the unrecognized seven millionth wave in our country do not even want to know. On the other hand, a few successful figures of the so-called "first wave" of emigration (1918-1922) were put on a pedestal.
    Полностью https://nvo.ng.ru/history/2023-03-02/15_1226_sikorsky.html
    1. +3
      26 May 2023 10: 09
      Why doesn't anyone in Russia know about Piasecki?


      How much do people in Russia know about Cheryomukhin? After all, even at the Olympics in Sochi, reading the alphabet with the letter B, the Sikorsky helicopter was dragged.
      1. +4
        26 May 2023 17: 10
        Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
        Why doesn't anyone in Russia know about Piasecki?


        How much do people in Russia know about Cheryomukhin? After all, even at the Olympics in Sochi, reading the alphabet with the letter B, the Sikorsky helicopter was dragged.

        Yes, and the layman does not know Bratukhin.
    2. 0
      26 May 2023 15: 50
      "his first helicopter" read that Sikorsky also designed helicopters. I can’t confirm, but it seems that all American presidents fly in Sikorsky helicopters
      1. Alf
        +1
        26 May 2023 20: 01
        Quote: Astra wild2
        "his first helicopter" read that Sikorsky designed helicopters

        , and Sikorsky decided to return to the idea of ​​a helicopter; by this time, several working vertical take-off vehicles had already been assembled in Europe. The company's first helicopter, named the VS-300, made its first flight on September 14, 1939. Its success led to a contract from the US Department of Defense to develop a new XR-4 model (Sikorsky R-4). On tests in May 1941, this model was able to stay in the air for an hour and a half, setting a record for vehicles with vertical takeoff, and also became the first single-rotor fully controlled helicopter. During the years of World War II, 131 such helicopters were assembled, they were widely used in rescue missions. An improved R-5 model was produced under license by the British company Westland under the name Dragonfly [4].

        Contrary to Sikorsky's expectations, helicopters were not widely used in civil aviation, the main buyers were the armed forces of the United States and other countries. The S-58 alone sold 1953 from 1996 to 1444 to the US Department of Defense. the time of the helicopter[1962].

        , all American presidents fly in Sikorsky helicopters

        History

        President Ronald Reagan and First Lady Nancy Reagan board Marine One in 1987
        The use of helicopters as presidential transport began in the United States in 1957 with the flight of Dwight Eisenhower on the H-13. In 1958, the position of presidential helicopter was transferred to the H-34, and in 1961 to the VH-3A.

        Prior to 1976, helicopter transport for the president was provided jointly by the Marine Corps and the US Army. Army helicopters used the call sign Army One.
  8. +8
    26 May 2023 10: 16
    Undoubtedly, Sikorsky is an era and a page of world aviation. The designer predetermined and established the ways and ideas of development. But the article glorifies and licks the royal heritage of Russia with hatred for the next stage of development. One phrase about "degenerates in leather jackets" who shot the "most talented" Shidlovich is worth a lot. But the socialist USSR responded to one imperial designer Sikorsky with tens and hundreds of outstanding designers. The fact that in tsarist Russia was rather an exception in the Union became commonplace. When Sikorsky is on one side of the scale and Tupolev, Polikarpov, Ilyushin, Yakovlev, Mil, Gurevich, Myasishchev, Sukhoi, etc. are on the other. this testifies to the backwardness of tsarist Russia and the absolute superiority of the socialist system.
    1. +5
      26 May 2023 15: 19
      "the royal heritage is glorified and poured out" this is not true. Roma does not know how to "lick", he knows how to expose: "how long, traitors" here he is not imitated.
      In this article, the author decided to talk about Igor Sikorsky.
      Unfortunately, he traditionally strained with trifles, and "the devil hides in trifles" (R. Skomorokhov): at least three times a genius, but he needs help. If, I mentioned Shidlovsky, then we need to tell a little more about him. Again, he should have told a little more about the "first crew": the co-pilot and the mechanic. At least that would be fair.
  9. +6
    26 May 2023 12: 39
    "was arrested by degenerates in leather jackets" Actually, the author should have watched the language. A factually good article, that's right, but this Roman judges from his bell tower of the 21st century, forgetting about the situation at the beginning of the 20th. With him, Nikolai, nicknamed the "bloody" people, is no worse than a rural idyllic pastoral. And yes, I in no way justify the executions of those who were really innocent, only the revenge of everyone under the same brush, and even having knowledge of the past - the reception is not very beautiful
  10. +3
    26 May 2023 12: 52
    But at that time it was believed that the lift force of the wing is the result of the rejection of air particles by the leading edge, and therefore increasing the chord over some accepted values ​​is meaningless.

    This stupidity has been roaming the Internet for a long time with someone's very difficult hand.
    First, Zhukovsky's fundamental lift theorem was formulated as early as 1904, that is, seven years before Sikorsky began designing his four-engine aircraft.
    Before Zhukovsky in Russia and Kutta in Germany formulated that the lift force is the result of the asymmetry of the flow around the body, the emergence of the lift force was explained by Newton's shock theory, proposed by him at the end of the XNUMXth century, according to which the lift force is the result of transferring the body normal to its the surface of the momentum component of the particles of the medium in which the body moves.
    For aviation speeds of that time, Newton's theory gave underestimated values ​​of the lift force.
    1. 0
      26 May 2023 17: 17
      Quote from Frettaskyrandi
      the emergence of lift was explained by Newton's shock theory

      Wing lift was explained and is being explained now Bernoulli's law, which explains a bunch of gas/liquid flow velocity and pressure. Simply put, the greater the gas/liquid flow rate, the lower the pressure. Thus, due to the specific profile of the wing, the speed of the air flow around the top of the wing will be less than the speed at its bottom. Therefore, the pressure in the upper part will be less than in the lower part. Hence the lifting force.

      In order not to go into the aerodynamics of the wing, I will give a simpler example. From plumbing.

      Imagine that you have water leaking from the stuffing box on the bottom box of a hot or cold faucet in the kitchen. The hostess turns on the faucet to wash the dishes and this leak immediately stops. Why? Because the speed of the water flow increases, and consequently the pressure on this very stuffing box also drops. It is worth closing this tap - and the leak immediately resumes ... And this is also Bernoulli's Law ...

      Why did I give the example with water and not with air? Because this law is valid for both air and water. And further. Please note that a plumber or gas worker always looks for leaks with the faucet closed, i.e. when the system pressure is at its highest. Well, if this is a competent plumber or gasman, and not some mu ... k
      1. +1
        26 May 2023 18: 19
        The lifting force of the wing was explained and is now explained by Bernoulli's Law, which explains the combination of speed and pressure of the gas/liquid flow. Simply put, the greater the gas/liquid flow rate, the lower the pressure.

        Well, you have to. And Newton, Kutta and Zhukovsky, apparently, never heard of Bernoulli and invented their own laws.
        1. 0
          26 May 2023 18: 51
          Quote from Frettaskyrandi
          And Newton, Kutta and Zhukovsky, apparently, didn’t hear about Bernoulli and invented their own laws

          Start at least with Wikipedia, where the wing lift is described ...
          1. +1
            26 May 2023 19: 42
            Start at least with Wikipedia, where the wing lift is described ...

            I will definitely take your advice. And then the teacher always recommended the textbook of aerodynamics to us. Maybe because there was no Wikipedia back then?
  11. +3
    26 May 2023 13: 29
    Quote from Tim666
    As an example, the Yak-3 and Thunderbolt, the Yak is the most lightweight and licked car because there was no powerful engine, but during the construction of the Thunderbolt, they immediately relied on a powerful motor.


    Well, what about the maneuverability of these aircraft? The Yak-3 is practically the standard of maneuverability, and the Yankees themselves recognized the "thunderbolt" as not very suitable as a fighter (it is fast, but it makes turns poorly), therefore they were used more as an attack aircraft.
    By the way, by the end of the war, the Germans created an extremely lightweight modification of the Messer (with a minimum of weapons and on-board equipment), realizing how important the maneuverability of a fighter (and not just the speed and power of weapons) is.
  12. +6
    26 May 2023 13: 34
    Quote: Blacksmith 55
    The Russian Land has always been famous for nugget people.
    But all sorts of revolutions, purges, perestroika forced them to emigrate or simply removed from life


    Well, how the genius of the same Tsiolkovsky flourished in the bakery pre-revolutionary Russia is also well known.
    And the comparison of the biographies of Popov and Marconi is also very revealing.
    Alas, even without social upheavals, our "nuggets" sometimes could not realize their talents to the fullest. Sometimes it was revolutions that opened up new horizons and launched social elevators.
  13. 0
    26 May 2023 14: 49
    "should be changed on the go" before him, no one thought about the 2nd pilot
    "2 Motor stop en route"
    3 "correction" alas, this is not possible now.
    I can’t imagine that now the Tu 95 mechanic got out of the cockpit, got to the engine and fixed it.
    Perhaps in the future, there will be: androids-mechanics?
    1. +3
      26 May 2023 15: 10
      Quote: vladcub
      3 "correction" alas, this is not possible now.
      I can’t imagine that now the Tu 95 mechanic got out of the cockpit, got to the engine and fixed it.

      By the way, on the early Tupolev cars, access to the engines was possible without access to the wing. smile
      Serial TB-3s with M-34R engines (aircraft No. 22451 was the first) had a number of differences from the experimental machine: the crutch was replaced with a tail wheel filled with foam rubber (gusmatic), the entrance door on the starboard side was eliminated (now the crew used the entrance hatch from below in the bow parts), removed the coca screws, introduced a trimmer on the rudder, after which the compensating mechanism was no longer needed, removed the first upper turret Tur-5, hatches appeared on the center section with steps for climbing onto the wing, leading from a rather spacious tunnel through which mechanics could get close to the engines.

      However, with a wing thickness of one and a half meters - and this can not be ... even retractable underwing machine-gun towers B-2 ("pants") were removed into this wing. smile
      1. 0
        26 May 2023 15: 58
        "Syrian TB-3" did not know such details about the TB aircraft
  14. 0
    26 May 2023 16: 07
    Comrades, it would be nice if Roma ts developed the topic "and talked about the first aircraft that were used in Russia. He casually mentioned:" the S-10 biplane and the S-11 monoplane, "and what kind of aircraft were they?
    I think it was interesting to read
  15. +5
    26 May 2023 16: 28
    Another cry of Skomorokhov's soul about bulkokhrustah. It has long been known that Russia is the birthplace of elephants. Proof of this are the incessant praises addressed to the worst bomber of the First World War, Ilya Muromets (IM). If anyone wants to refute this statement of mine, let them name a World War I bomber without further ado, with worse performance characteristics than the IM. All that the IM could demonstrate in terms of speed, bomb load and range was to compete with some models of single-engine bombers of the initial period of the First World War.
    On June 29, 1915, the first flight of the German twin-engine bomber Gotha GI took place. Gotha was not a long-range bomber, but from the moment it appeared until the end of the war, the GI became an outsider among bombers.
    The breakthrough in IM was 4 engines, otherwise it was a completely mediocre design, which is presented at the departments of aerodynamics and flight dynamics of decent universities as an example of how aircraft cannot be designed. Mathematical theories of aircraft stability were developed long before Sikorsky, and by 1910 the theories of Ferber, G. A. Botezat, and others were published. This is well known. However, Sikorsky was not an aircraft designer, he was a very successful adventurer, so the laws of aerodynamics were unwritten for him.
    I repeat the photo:

    The photo shows a promotional 656 kg (40-pood) bomb. Made in a single copy. They did not dare to lift it into the air on the MI. Those. this bomb has never flown.
    For the sake of advertising, Sikorsky also made a 415 kg (25 pood) bomb in a single copy, which, to the delight of journalists, was lifted into the air and taken around the airfield. Further with such a load, IM could not fly away. But the advertising stink was to heaven! Until the end of the war, this bomb stood at Sikorsky's firm under the promise that he would throw such bombs at the Germans.
    Extremely rarely, when flying at short range, IM used 250 kg of bombs, somewhat more often 82 kg (5 pounds). The most running - 16 kg bombs. On average, the bomb load for the IM flight was 10 pounds (164 kg), the maximum - 12 pounds (197 kg). A bomb load of 500 kg for IM (except for advertising flights around the airfield) was unattainable.
    For comparison. The maximum caliber of actually used English bombs is 907 kg (2000 pounds), the German twin-engine Gotha (Gotha) is 700 kg. There is a known case when the German heavy bomber Riesen dropped a 2000-pound bomb on London, having flown with it from Germany and returned safely. Compared to the 4- and 6-engine German Riesens and the twin-engine English Handley Pages, the IM is a pathetic parody of a bomber.
    During the First World War, the Germans built 542 Gothas and 63 Riesens, England built 554 Handley Pages (bomb load 813 - 908 kg), Russia built only 80 IMs. It's embarrassingly small. But the adventurer and financial businessman Sikorsky made money on military supplies. He is one of those who really brought the end of the Russian Empire closer. Poland, Ukraine and America can be proud of him!
    I repeat once again - Sikorsky did not know how to build airplanes, On the other hand, he knew how to skillfully sell them. I'll give you an example.
    In 1935, almost simultaneously saw the light of two similar aircraft. These are Consolidated Sikorsky S-43 Baby Clipper and PBY Catalina flying boats. These aircraft are very similar in appearance: two engines, a payload of 1800 kg, etc. The difference is that the Baby Clipper was designed to transport wealthy daddies around the tropical islands of the Caribbean, while the Catalina was originally a military aircraft that allowed commercial use. An important point. Competing seaplane patrol aircraft of the competing firms Consolidated XP3Y-1 and Douglas XP3D-1 were put up for the US Navy competition. Both competing machines have successfully passed the tests and fully complied with the technical requirements of the fleet. Their flight characteristics were almost the same and the decisive factor that influenced the choice of military sailors was the price - Consolidated requested $ 90000 for their seaplane, and Douglas $ 110000 and lost the competition. I didn’t find how much the Baby Clipper cost, but it’s probably more expensive than both Douglas and Catalina, like any other piece production.
    The brilliant aircraft designer Sikorsky did not participate in this competition, because he could not offer anything for it. With almost identical engines, his Baby Clipper had a practical range of only 1247 km, and Catalina 4096 km. Here, one to one, the story of the “legendary four-engine bomber Ilya Muromets” was repeated, unable to compete with single-engine bombers of the First World War. As a result, Catalina is a legendary aircraft that is still flying, and only experts know about the Baby Clipper. It is not surprising that only 3305 Catalins were produced and only 53 Baby Clippers were produced.
    The story of the Baby Clipper did not end with non-participation in the US Navy competition. On January 5, 1936, by order of the People's Commissariat of Defense Industry (NKOP USSR), Tupolev was appointed first deputy and chief engineer of the Main Directorate of the NKOP. In the same year, a delegation of workers from the aviation industry was sent to the United States to purchase equipment and licenses. A. N. Tupolev and N. M. Kharlamov were appointed leaders of the delegation.
    For flights in the Far North, Tupolev personally purchased 2 (two) Baby Clippers and documentation for them (!!!) in the USA. I cannot comment on this purchase within the framework of the normative vocabulary. There is only one explanation: either Tupolev was completely incompetent in matters of aviation, or he got something from this deal. It remains to add that the Catalina was not a secret aircraft, with the acquisition of the Baby Clipper, the issue with the purchase of flying boats was not resolved, and the USSR ultimately purchased the Catalinas anyway.
    As a result, Tupolev was imprisoned for this business trip, and he became an innocent victim of political repression.
    ... Mikhail Shidlovsky in 1919 was arrested by degenerates in leather jackets on charges of espionage and shot on January 14, 1921 ...
    - Skomorokhov! I understand that your anti-Sovietism justifies any crimes against Russians? During the civil war, such degenerates as Shidlovsky flogged pregnant women with ramrods until they miscarried, and skinned innocent people alive. Bulkokhrusty with dog fidelity served any invaders. They returned to Russia in 1941 as part of the Gestapo, SD, SS, etc. human rights organizations.
    Sikorsky himself is the son of an ardent Black Hundred, close to Nick 2. This largely explains Sikorsky's aviation successes. Until the end of his days, Sikorsky fiercely hated Soviet power. Therefore, work for foreign intelligence (if only this was the case) was not surprising for his friend Shidlovsky. Skomorokhov! Do you have at least one proof of Shidlovsky's innocence?
    1. +2
      26 May 2023 17: 17
      Skomorokhov! Do you have at least one proof of Shidlovsky's innocence?

      Shiza concentrate ended directly with a standard outrage on common sense. Even on a topvar, not only everyone can do this.
      1. 0
        28 May 2023 03: 58
        Shiza concentrate ended directly with a standard outrage on common sense. Even on a topvar, not only everyone can do this.
        - Alas! Life is a vile thing, full of cruel disappointments! I'm scared to tell you, but Santa Claus does not exist, and the stork does not bring children at all! am
    2. +1
      26 May 2023 17: 23
      Great, much more interesting review.
    3. 0
      26 May 2023 18: 10
      Constructive criticism a priori implies objectivity. You, in polemical fervor, mixed both pearls and manure, which greatly reduced the quality of your comment.
      Some maxims are clearly voiced in the heat of the moment, like this one:
      If anyone wants to refute this statement of mine, let them name a World War I bomber without further ado, with worse performance characteristics than the IM.

      It is not difficult to find one: Caudron G.4. Among other things, if we take 1914, when the Ilya Muromets bomber began to fly, there was nothing comparable to it at all, competitors began to appear from 1915 and later, and in those days the year of time was very important in aviation.
      During the First World War, the Germans built 542 Gothas and 63 Riesens, England built 554 Handley Pages (bomb load 813 - 908 kg), Russia built only 80 IMs. It's embarrassingly small.

      That is, you want to say that all the blame for the fact that the Russian Empire did not essentially have an aviation industry lies with Sikorsky?
      The brilliant aircraft designer Sikorsky did not participate in this competition

      He did not participate for one reason - no one invited him there.
      With almost identical engines, his Baby Clipper had a practical range of only 1247 km, and Catalina 4096 km.

      Well, here you are completely zaraportovalsya.
      The Sikorsky S-43 had two 1690 hp Pratt & Whitney R-52-750 Hornets, the Consolidated (Model 28) PBY Catalina had two 1830 hp Pratt & Whitney R-54-825 Twin Wasps.
      Among other things, the fuel capacity of the Sikorsky S-43 was 380 liters, while the PBY Catalina started from 3312 liters to 6624 liters.
      1. -1
        27 May 2023 16: 58
        It is not difficult to find one: Caudron G.4. Among other things, if we take 1914, when the Ilya Muromets bomber began to fly, there was nothing comparable to it at all, competitors began to appear starting from 1915 and later, and in those days the year of time was very important in aviation.
        - you are absolutely right! Russia is the birthplace of elephants.
        Historical fact. The first bomber in World War I was the single-engine Voisin. Vyuzen began to use bomb weapons literally from the first days of the war. The division of aircraft into classes did not yet exist. Therefore, the first Voisin squadrons did not have the designation "bomber". However, already in September 1914, the French formed the first special bomber squadrons armed with Voisin III. However, they did not have the name "Bomber".
        It was on the Voisin aircraft that the French won the first air victory in the First World War. On October 5, 1914, at 8:45, a Voisin 3LA (No. 89) from the V-24 squadron took off from the Muizon airfield near Reims, which met with the German reconnaissance aircraft Aviatik B.II. At this meeting, the French Hotchkiss machine gun proved to be a more effective argument than the German infantry rifle.
        Historical fact. In November 1914, the Voisins formed France's first bomber unit (Groupe de Bombardement).
        In the middle of 1915, it was launched into the Voisin LAS series - the best Voisin model. In total, not counting other countries, 1150 Voisin bombers of all types were produced in France.
        The bomb load of Voisin Voisin was different for different models and ranged from 150 to 230 kg. Let me remind you that the nominal bomb load of the IM ranged from 164 to 197 kg. If it was necessary to load, for example, a 250 kg bomb, then this was possible only by removing part of the defensive weapons, the total mass of which with arrows was approximately 800 kg. In 1915, fighters as a class did not yet exist, and such a trick rolled. From 1916 flying without defensive weapons became suicidal.
        By the beginning of the war (August 1, 1914) 4 IMs were built. By September 1914 they were transferred to the Imperial Air Force. At that time, no one had anything comparable to IM. The main and only purpose of the MI at that time was not even passenger transportation, but VIP attractions - flights with high-ranking passengers around the airfield. To do this, for the first time in the history of aviation, the IM was equipped with a comfortable cabin separate from the cockpit, sleeping rooms and even a bathroom with a toilet.
        The military department was delighted with such an acquisition, but did not know what to do with this flying bathtub. The first thought was to make a fighter out of them. To do this, it was supposed to poke machine guns at him, and wet, wet, and wet adversaries in all directions. However, even before this idea was put into practice, it became obvious that this was nonsense. Therefore, according to the experience of the French, British and Germans, they nevertheless decided to make a bomber out of IM.
        On December 10 (23), 1914, the emperor approved the decision of the military council on the creation of the Ilya Muromets bomber squadron (Squadron of Airships, EVC). M. V. Shidlovsky became her boss.
        Historical fact. At the time of creation, the squadron consisted of one combat-ready IM. For the first time, he flew on a combat mission on February 14 (27), 1915, i.e. 7 months after the start of the war. How do you write there:
        ... and in those days the year of time was very important in aviation. …
        - 7 months is also not a feeble lag, but the only IM on all fronts is cool!
        As production progressed, the number of IMs increased somewhat, but the number of combat-ready IMs at the front never exceeded a dozen.
        For the whole of 1915, they carried out about 100 combat flights, dropping up to 20 tons of bombs on the enemy.
        For the whole of 1916, the EVK ships made 156 (in 112 of them the task was completed) sorties, dropping up to 19,352 tons of bombs on the enemy. This year was the peak of IM activity.
        For the whole of 1917, the squadron made about 70 combat flights, dropping up to 10.66 bombs on the enemy. During the entire German campaign, out of 51 warships that entered the front, about 40 vehicles fought. They made up to 300 sorties, dropping just over 50 tons of bombs. For comparison. The total bomb salvo of 1150 Voisins with a minimum bomb load of 150 kg is 172,5 tons.
        Let's compare IM with an adversary. In April 1915, the German five-engine heavy bomber Zeppelin-Staaken VGO.I took off. It cannot be considered either a copy or an analogue of the Sikorsky apparatus. With the exception of the biplane scheme generally accepted at that time, there are no common features in them. Typical bomb load VGO.I - 500 kg. In subsequent modifications, it was brought up to 2 tons. The new class of aircraft was given a code designation - the letter "R" from the German word "Riesen" - "huge" (Riesenflugzeuge), since the VGO I was already the largest aircraft in the world. The devices of the "R" series retained this primacy until the end of the war. A total of 63 Rizens were built.
        The baptism of fire "Zeppelins" took place on August 13, 1916 on the eastern front near Riga. Two VGO.I bombers dropped the first bombs on the positions of the Russian infantry. Then they fought on all fronts.
        Historical fact. In October 1917, the "Englandgeschwader" - "English Regiment" - was created - the world's first strategic aviation unit. His targets were English cities and military factories. The main striking force was 5 Zeppelin-Staakens; 2 "R-fourths" and 3 "R-sixths", which were given 38 twin-engine "Gotha" as escort fighters. The "English regiment" made a total of 11 raids on London and Sheerness, dropping more than 30 tons of bombs. Many buildings were destroyed, including the central telegraph and telephone exchange in the center of the British capital. The London air defense service, which had long since learned to deal with airships, was powerless against the new enemy. She did not manage to shoot down a single “Rizen”, although the interceptors tried more than once to engage in battle with them. It later turned out that the British pilots, misled by the huge size of the Zeppelins, opened fire from too great a distance.
        No matter how many times Skomorokhov repeats the word “strategic” in relation to IM, this non-bomber, in terms of its bomb load and flight range, was and remains the only four-engine front-line or tactical bomber in the world.
        As for the Caudron G.4., this reconnaissance aircraft really has a bomb load less than that of the IM. However, the Caudron G.4. and IM are aircraft of different classes. Comparing them is incorrect. To please you, I’ll say that the only bomber of the First World War inferior to IM in terms of performance characteristics is Voisin. You can be proud of it.

        In the photo, a gang of crooks with a fake bomb. Do you think Shidlovsky was just arrested under the Provisional Government? However, a raven will not peck out a crow's eye, and the crook was released.
        The brilliant aircraft designer Sikorsky did not participate in this competition

        He did not participate for one reason - no one invited him there.

        - and that this crooked mediocrity could present something for a serious competition?
    4. 0
      26 May 2023 20: 13
      Thank you very detailed and factual.
  16. +4
    26 May 2023 19: 24
    was arrested by degenerates in leather jackets on charges of espionage

    Well, so far in this article I saw only one degenerate

  17. +2
    26 May 2023 20: 13
    in 1919 he was arrested by degenerates in leather jackets on charges of espionage

    Loud.
    He was arrested because of his son Mikhail, who was involved in counter-revolutionary activities and tried to go over to the Whites. .. was hiding from military service, trying to go with secret information to the whites ”(c). The role of Mikhail Vladimirovich Shidlovsky in the history of this conspiracy is not defined.
    1. 0
      27 May 2023 16: 07
      And it must be admitted that the entire Russian aviation of that period also did not shine with competence. Technological and organizational errors were colossal. The main enemy of Russian aviation was not machine guns and cannons, but spring and autumn rains. It was high humidity and muddy airfields that caused the greatest damage to Russian aviation. Surviving the winter for a Russian aircraft was much more difficult than surviving a sortie.

      An unforgivable mistake was also the hope for foreign aircraft engines. With the outbreak of the war, their supply practically ceased. First, the logistics chains were broken, and then the supplier countries simply refused to sell the motors in the right quantity. As a result, being the absolute leader in 1914, Russian aviation ended the war as an absolute outsider, inferior to the armies of the warring countries both qualitatively and quantitatively.
      Is it Shidlovsky's fault? Probably not. But I also think it’s wrong to expose him as a kind of Genius of Russian aviation.
  18. Lad
    +2
    26 May 2023 20: 35
    Ilya Muromets was not exactly an airplane in the modern sense of the word. It was kind of like Lego. The design changed not only during the initial construction. For example, due to the fact that the main part of the aircraft - the engines were not produced in the country, they were constantly changed, rearranging from one broken aircraft to another. And not just engines. Planes constantly broke down and crashed. Therefore, even to name the exact number of these aircraft is difficult. Cannibalism flourished among them, so to speak. Parts of one aircraft quickly became parts of another. Therefore, their total number is a conditional figure.
  19. -1
    26 May 2023 20: 37
    Quote: Region-25.rus
    Everything is fine in the USSR
    who and when said that "everything was fine in the USSR?" fool And yes .. Mig-15 fought practically on equal terms with the Saber. Differences (alas) were in electronics

    So they were going to copy not because the MiG-15 was bad, but in order to master new technologies, and yes, in the dog dump, the MiG was good, but there is no radar, no radio sight, it is ineffective at night ... In terms of basic characteristics, the saber and the 15th are very close cars.
    1. 0
      26 May 2023 22: 35
      So they were going to copy not because the MiG-15 was bad, but in order to master new technologies, and yes, in the dog dump, the MiG was good, but there is no radar, no radio sight, it is ineffective at night ... In terms of basic characteristics, the saber and the 15th are very close cars.


      The airborne radars of those years did not shine with perfection. The radio sight only suggested the range, which was important only for a beginner, and then in question.
      But what was really important was the armament. Saber machine guns were no match for the MiG-15 guns.
  20. -1
    26 May 2023 21: 48
    Quote: Illanatol
    Quote from Tim666
    As an example, the Yak-3 and Thunderbolt, the Yak is the most lightweight and licked car because there was no powerful engine, but during the construction of the Thunderbolt, they immediately relied on a powerful motor.


    Well, what about the maneuverability of these aircraft? The Yak-3 is practically the standard of maneuverability, and the Yankees themselves recognized the "thunderbolt" as not very suitable as a fighter (it is fast, but it makes turns poorly), therefore they were used more as an attack aircraft.
    By the way, by the end of the war, the Germans created an extremely lightweight modification of the Messer (with a minimum of weapons and on-board equipment), realizing how important the maneuverability of a fighter (and not just the speed and power of weapons) is.

    This is not about maneuverability, but about the fact that Yakovlev VK-107 did not wait, and had to be perverted like the Japanese with Zero, making it maneuverable, this could not be taken away, but in all honesty, a technically backward car. By the way, what kind of lightweight messer-index can you tell me? Messers and fok yaks won either due to numerical superiority or when veteran aces were at the helm, technically, wooden-steel yaks were obsolete machines in 1944-1945, automatic change of propeller pitch appeared, for example, on the Yak-9 by the end of the war, and that truncated, the Germans had it already in 1941.
    1. -1
      26 May 2023 22: 29
      This is not about maneuverability, but about the fact that Yakovlev VK-107 did not wait, and had to be perverted like the Japanese with Zero, making it maneuverable, this could not be taken away, but in all honesty, a technically backward car. By the way, what kind of lightweight messer-index can you tell me? Messers and fok yaks won either due to numerical superiority or when veteran aces were at the helm, technically, wooden-steel yaks were obsolete machines in 1944-1945, automatic change of propeller pitch appeared, for example, on the Yak-9 by the end of the war, and that truncated, the Germans had it already in 1941.


      Sorry, but aviation is clearly not your topic. During the war, not an absolutely perfect, but a mass machine is needed.
  21. +2
    26 May 2023 23: 09
    Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
    So they were going to copy not because the MiG-15 was bad, but in order to master new technologies, and yes, in the dog dump, the MiG was good, but there is no radar, no radio sight, it is ineffective at night ... In terms of basic characteristics, the saber and the 15th are very close cars.


    The airborne radars of those years did not shine with perfection. The radio sight only suggested the range, which was important only for a beginner, and then in question.
    But what was really important was the armament. Saber machine guns were no match for the MiG-15 guns.

    But there were 6 machine guns on the Saber and they made it possible to fire a cloud of bullets, and an ineffective radar ... It was so ineffective that in the Soviet design bureaus the asses burned to give birth to at least a radar detector. Hooray, patriotism is great, but as an argument, Stalin personally insisted on copying the Saber and even though he was dissuaded, but according to the recollections of the employees of the MIG Design Bureau, the equipment that was on the Sabers and what was available to us was like heaven and earth and captured Sabers gave a huge impetus for development.
    1. -2
      27 May 2023 00: 30
      But there were 6 machine guns on the Saber and they allowed to release a cloud of bullets


      And what's the point of this cloud? Pin injections. Here, back to base.


      and an inefficient radar ... It was so inefficient that in the Soviet design bureaus the asses burned to give birth to at least a radar detector.


      What radar, sick? Radio range finder, and this is a slightly different device. laughing

      Hooray patriotism is great


      It’s not for you, the couch strategist, to accuse me of jingoistic patriotism, especially since you are not in the subject of the question.

      but as an argument, Stalin personally insisted on copying the Saber, and even though he was dissuaded, but according to the recollections of the employees of the MIG Design Bureau, the equipment that was on the Sabers and what was available with us was like heaven and earth and captured Sabers gave a huge impetus to development.


      You have read liberal sources. At the same time, being unable to determine what is true and what is fiction. Reality is different from your fantasy.
      A comparison of the aerodynamic characteristics of the F-86A and MiG-15 bis models shows that their drag and lift coefficients in the range of attack angles up to α = 14° practically coincide. The F-86A aircraft has larger dimensions, higher flight weight and lower thrust engine compared to the MiG-15bis aircraft. As a result, according to the calculation data, it follows that the F-86A aircraft is somewhat inferior to the MiG-15bis aircraft in terms of maximum speed at low altitudes and is significantly inferior in vertical speeds and rate of climb at all altitudes. The steady dive speeds of the F-86A and MiG-15bis aircraft with open brake flaps are almost the same, however, in level flight, the F-86A aircraft decelerates more intensively than the MiG-15bis aircraft.

      “As a result of the ... studies ... it has been established that the layout and aerodynamic layout of the aircraft are of no particular interest, with the exception of the use of:

      aileron with a large relative chord and scope;
      b) brake flaps with a large relative area;
      c) effective landing mechanization in the form of a slotted flap;
      g) slat;
      e) booster control of ailerons and elevators. ”


      The Americans also had a lot to learn.

  22. +2
    27 May 2023 09: 12
    Quote from Tim666
    But there were 6 machine guns on the Saber and they made it possible to fire a cloud of bullets, and an ineffective radar ... It was so ineffective that in the Soviet design bureaus the asses burned to give birth to at least a radar detector. Hooray, patriotism is great, but as an argument, Stalin personally insisted on copying the Saber and even though he was dissuaded, but according to the recollections of the employees of the MIG Design Bureau, the equipment that was on the Sabers and what was available to us was like heaven and earth and captured Sabers gave a huge impetus for development.


    The American pilots themselves considered the armament of the sabers clearly insufficient.
    There was no radar then, as such, the sights on the sabers were equipped with rangefinders. But given that the effectiveness of 12.7 mm machine guns was limited to 500-700 m distance, this device just made life a little easier, no more. The MiG-15 guns hit farther away, and experienced pilots could get even at a greater distance without a radio rangefinder.
    Air battles were fought in the line of sight, so it was possible to fight without radars.

    The radiation detector is not a radar, from the word at all. By the way, it was invented by a Soviet engineer, and soon such a device was put on fighter planes. The need for it arose due to the fact that the Yankees often tried to attack MiGs from the rear hemisphere, hiding behind clouds. And the detector made it possible to detect the enemy in time and start timely maneuvering.
  23. 0
    27 May 2023 09: 29
    Quote from Tim666
    This is not about maneuverability, but about the fact that Yakovlev VK-107 did not wait, and had to be perverted like the Japanese with Zero, making it maneuverable, this could not be taken away, but in all honesty, a technically backward car.


    Technological advancement is not an end in itself. And maneuverability is a key parameter for a fighter. If the enemy, superior in maneuverability, has come to your tail, then no technology will help you.
    Old technologies are proven technologies. And the use of more progressive ones is often associated with an increase in the cost and labor intensity of production.

    Quote from Tim666
    Messers and fok yaks won either due to numerical superiority or when veteran aces were at the helm, technically, wooden-steel yaks were obsolete machines in 1944-1945, automatic change of propeller pitch appeared, for example, on the Yak-9 by the end of the war, and that truncated, the Germans had it already in 1941.


    As if the others were not winning by sheer numbers or greater skill!
    Everyone fought like that, by and large.
    And we managed to create numerical superiority due to the fact that the cost and labor intensity of the production of our machines was less than that of the German ones. The Germans, no matter how hard they tried, could not build up their air force on the Eastern Front (later on the Western Front), their industry could not provide sufficient production volumes. As well as their vaunted system of training flight crews - the required mass character.
    Paying for "high technology" is sometimes too expensive.
  24. -1
    27 May 2023 13: 56
    Not a word about Mozhaisky, thanks to which the planes were created on a scientific basis.
  25. 0
    27 May 2023 22: 35
    Quote: Illanatol
    Quote from Tim666
    This is not about maneuverability, but about the fact that Yakovlev VK-107 did not wait, and had to be perverted like the Japanese with Zero, making it maneuverable, this could not be taken away, but in all honesty, a technically backward car.


    Technological advancement is not an end in itself. And maneuverability is a key parameter for a fighter. If the enemy, superior in maneuverability, has come to your tail, then no technology will help you.
    Old technologies are proven technologies. And the use of more progressive ones is often associated with an increase in the cost and labor intensity of production.

    Quote from Tim666
    Messers and fok yaks won either due to numerical superiority or when veteran aces were at the helm, technically, wooden-steel yaks were obsolete machines in 1944-1945, automatic change of propeller pitch appeared, for example, on the Yak-9 by the end of the war, and that truncated, the Germans had it already in 1941.


    As if the others were not winning by sheer numbers or greater skill!
    Everyone fought like that, by and large.
    And we managed to create numerical superiority due to the fact that the cost and labor intensity of the production of our machines was less than that of the German ones. The Germans, no matter how hard they tried, could not build up their air force on the Eastern Front (later on the Western Front), their industry could not provide sufficient production volumes. As well as their vaunted system of training flight crews - the required mass character.
    Paying for "high technology" is sometimes too expensive.

    With the same words, the commissars proved the superiority of the I-16 over the Me-109, according to Pokryshkin's memoirs)
  26. -1
    27 May 2023 23: 30
    Quote: Illanatol
    Quote from Tim666
    But there were 6 machine guns on the Saber and they made it possible to fire a cloud of bullets, and an ineffective radar ... It was so ineffective that in the Soviet design bureaus the asses burned to give birth to at least a radar detector. Hooray, patriotism is great, but as an argument, Stalin personally insisted on copying the Saber and even though he was dissuaded, but according to the recollections of the employees of the MIG Design Bureau, the equipment that was on the Sabers and what was available to us was like heaven and earth and captured Sabers gave a huge impetus for development.


    The American pilots themselves considered the armament of the sabers clearly insufficient.
    There was no radar then, as such, the sights on the sabers were equipped with rangefinders. But given that the effectiveness of 12.7 mm machine guns was limited to 500-700 m distance, this device just made life a little easier, no more. The MiG-15 guns hit farther away, and experienced pilots could get even at a greater distance without a radio rangefinder.
    Air battles were fought in the line of sight, so it was possible to fight without radars.

    The radiation detector is not a radar, from the word at all. By the way, it was invented by a Soviet engineer, and soon such a device was put on fighter planes. The need for it arose due to the fact that the Yankees often tried to attack MiGs from the rear hemisphere, hiding behind clouds. And the detector made it possible to detect the enemy in time and start timely maneuvering.

    I wrote somewhere that a radar detector is a radar?))))
    The Germans used the detectors with might and main, the one used in Korea on MiGs was a super-primitive system, it reacted to any radiation, whether it was a ground-based radar or a bomber radar, but for the Korean theater the solution was quite effective. And read at least in the memoirs of those who fought in Korea from what distance the Migi opened fire, 500-700 m and it doesn’t smell, the BC of the guns is too small to try to hit from such a distance
  27. 0
    12 July 2023 10: 32
    Well, yes! Brilliant! So much so that the next aircraft built according to this scheme appeared only in the seventies, and it was the American F 16 fighter.
    Amazing, huh?
    That's how!
    The placement of engines on the wing is, of course, wonderful, but then, what now, a much more difficult and important task is the LONGITUDINAL balancing of the aircraft.
    So, Sikorsky's planes were longitudinally unstable, and therefore they could not fly faster than 100-140 km / h. The pilot simply could not have time to keep the eroplan in a stable position.
    That's when the EDSU appeared, that's when the Sikorsky scheme began to play laughing!
    My version of why he did it. Just out of illiteracy. Or didn't think. At all. Most likely, he did not imagine the behavior of the aircraft in flight at all.
    That is why the German and British heavy bombers that appeared a little later surpassed Sikorsky's designs in all respects.
  28. -2
    13 August 2023 09: 07
    As the character K. Prutkov said: "The harm or benefit of the case is determined by the totality of circumstances." And in the aggregate, Sikorsky did a lot for both the Imperial Air Force and the US Air Force ...
    And do not blame either Sikorsky or the Soviet authorities for this ......

    Over the past 30 years, hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers have left Russia. Today mechanics from car services are also leaving... ...And not just dissatisfied entertainers.

    And Tajiks and Uzbeks come .....
    Man is not a friend or an enemy to man, but a teacher .... And we learn until we die. Not at the Sikorskys, because they passed IT, and now at the Tajiks ....

    For foolishness is only one in this world is limitless.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"