Military Review

Project "Organ": a strategic complex for delivering massive strikes with long-range precision weapons

68
Project "Organ": a strategic complex for delivering massive strikes with long-range precision weapons

“The organ of the Boardwalk Concert Hall (Atlantic City, USA) is the largest and loudest musical instrument ever made. It has 7 manuals, 455 registers and 33 pipes...”


One of the characteristic criteria of military conflicts of our time is the use of high-precision weapons (WTO) long range. For example, during the American operation "Desert Storm", according to the "Summary Report on the Air Force in the Gulf War", 297 Tomahawk cruise missiles (CR) were fired, of which 282 successfully hit their targets, 6 missiles were denied immediately after launch, and the launch of 9 missiles did not take place due to failures on board the carrier ship.


The launch of the Tomahawk cruise missile from the Virginia-class nuclear-powered missile cruiser Mississippi during Operation Desert Storm (left), the cruiser Mississippi (right)

The next blow in 1995 was delivered during Operation Resolute Force, only 13 Tomahawk missiles were fired, of which 5 were shot down by Serbian air defense. However, it was not a war, but rather a "warm-up".

During Operation Desert Fox, which can be considered a logical continuation of Operation Desert Storm, 370 Tomahawk CDs were used.

This was followed by the "Allied Force" - the barbaric bombing of Yugoslavia, during which 218 Tomahawk missile launchers were fired by NATO countries.

Invasion of Libya - about 200 Tomahawk missiles were fired.

The invasion of Iraq in 2003 - the bloody denouement of the long-term war of the Western countries against Iraq - in addition to the Tomahawk missile launcher, AGM-86D CALCM air-launched missiles were used, the latest Storm Shadow missile launcher at that time, which are British accomplices, more precisely - rather ideologists of Nazism, now supplied to the armed forces of Ukraine, operational-tactical missiles MGM-140 ATACMS and many other WTO samples were used. The exact number is unknown, most likely something in the region of a thousand strokes.


History the use of the Storm Shadow CD began back in Iraq, in 2003

And finally, already during the presence of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (RF Armed Forces) in Syria, the United States used 165 Tomahawk missiles against Syrian facilities.

All these figures pale in comparison to the number of long-range precision weapons used by the Russian Armed Forces in the course of a special military operation (SVO) in Ukraine.

WTO in NWO


The Russian special military operation began with a massive strike with long-range precision weapons. The exact number of Kh-101 air-launched cruise missiles and sea-launched Caliber cruise missiles used in the first strike is unknown, presumably hundreds of units. Subsequently, the intensity of strikes decreased, although from time to time information appeared in the media about the next use of Russian missiles.


Sea-based cruise missile of the Kalibr complex

In addition to cruise missiles, the RF Armed Forces actively used Iskander operational-tactical missile systems, as well as for the first time in the world hypersonic missile system "Dagger".

Periodically, during the course of the NWO, many "experts", including high-ranking Ukrainian officials and the military, made the assertion that Russia's long-range WTO was over. Each regular launch of the KR or OTRK missiles refuted these words, although, of course, the reserves of long-range high-precision weapons in the RF Armed Forces are not endless.

Suddenly, the armed forces of Ukraine (AFU) have a new misfortune - the characteristic crackle of "air mopeds" has become a nightmare for the Ukrainian military - simple and cheap unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) - kamikaze "Geran-2" with Iranian roots.


UAV-kamikaze "Geran-2"

How many UAV-kamikaze "Geran-2" was released is also unknown - presumably several thousand units.

Lately, on the eve of the widely announced "counteroffensive" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the RF Armed Forces again began to deliver massive strikes with long-range precision weapons against targets in enemy territory, while the effectiveness of strikes, apparently, has increased significantly.

It can be assumed that during the course of the NMD, the RF Armed Forces used several thousand units of long-range high-precision weapons.

From what carriers is the WTO applied during the NWO in Ukraine?

The missiles of the Kalibr complex are launched from surface ships, the U.S. and NATO intelligence structures kindly inform the Armed Forces of Ukraine and all other interested parties about their entry into the sea. The Kh-101 cruise missiles are launched by strategic bombers of the Aerospace Forces (VKS) of the Russian Federation, information about the take-off of which is also not long in coming. Only modest "Geraniums", launched from ground launchers (PU), do without fanfare. Iskander OTRK missiles are launched from ground-based mobile launchers (PU), and Iskander-K cruise missiles can also be launched from them. A hypersonic missile of the Kinzhal complex is launched from a modernized MiG-31K interceptor or from a Tu-22M3M long-range missile-carrying bomber.


MiG-31K with a hypersonic missile of the Kinzhal complex

Long-range precision weapons are expensive. This cost is superimposed on the costs of operating the carriers that launch it, and the risks of losing these carriers as a result of enemy attacks or emergencies are added to them.

Considering the high cost of high-precision long-range weapons, there is an objective need to minimize the cost of creating and operating their carriers, while simultaneously increasing the efficiency of using the HTO DB.

Cost of delivery


According to open information, one hour of Tu-160 / Tu-160M ​​flight (without combat use), according to 2008, costs 580 thousand rubles or about 23,3 thousand US dollars, taking into account inflation at the moment, the cost of one hour of Tu-160 / Tu-160M ​​flight -1,5 / Tu-1M ​​should be over 60 million rubles (for comparison, an hour of flight of an American B-31B bomber of a similar type costs about 22 thousand US dollars). The launch of the Kinzhal hypersonic missile from MiG-3K or Tu-XNUMXMXNUMXM carriers will not be cheap either.


Modern combat aircraft are not the most economical means of delivering weapons.

The missiles of the Kalibr complex are used from combat surface ships and submarines. The cost of their operation, of course, is lower than that of combat aircraft, if we compare the hour of going to sea and the hour of flight, but in general, combat ships are a very expensive resource to build and operate. Placing high-precision long-range weapons on small ships made sense at the time of the INF Treaty, however, in connection with the withdrawal of the United States and Russia from this treaty, it makes sense to place the WTO database only on large ships of the first and second rank, capable of operating far from their own shores.

Missiles of the Iskander complex are launched from a special automobile chassis. Of course, the cost of acquiring and operating such a chassis is much lower than that of aircraft and ships, but the Iskander OTRK carries only two missiles. And this means that for a massive launch of such chassis there should be a lot. A lot of chassis - the cost of their operation begins to grow, the requirements for their camouflage and combat protection are becoming tougher.

In fact, long-range precision weapons are just cargo. The cargo that needs to be delivered to a specific point.

To some extent, any ammunition is cargo, but the difference between the WTO DB is that its delivery vehicle is most often “unloaded” outside the enemy’s impact zone, that is, it does not require armor or any other active or passive protection systems. Often, even a particularly high delivery speed is not required. You just need to get to the launch line.

What vehicles provide the minimum delivery speed?

The answer to this question is known to anyone who was engaged in freight transportation, logistics, or even simply the acquisition of something heavy or large with delivery from afar - this is rail and sea transport. For the time being, we will put maritime transport out of the brackets, but we will dwell on railway transport in more detail.

"Organ" on the railway platform


The issue of creating missile trains carrying high-precision long-range weapons with a conventional warhead was previously raised by the author in the material Strategic conventional forces: carriers and weapons in August 2019. Since then, the RF Armed Forces have not received rocket trains, although the need for them has increased significantly.

The proposed missile train format includes railway cargo platforms carrying containers with long-range high-precision cruise missiles. Such containers were developed by the Morinformsystem-Agat concern, but for some unknown reason this direction did not receive support and further development. The motivation for this is unclear, because the container version of the Caliber complex could be extremely useful for our country, for example, by providing the possibility of a quick transfer of offensive weapons, the problem of the geographical disunity of the Russian fleets could be partially solved.


Caliber-K complex (export version CLUB-K)

The length of a rail freight train can reach and even exceed 110 wagons, but freight trains of approximately 60–70 wagons are most common. For example, from a missile train, which includes 60 wagons, 10 wagons will be assigned to the command post, means of entering target coordinates and support services. One container per platform, four missiles per container - then the total ammunition load of the missile train will be 200 cruise missiles. Once again - two hundred (!) cruise missiles. This is twice as much as on any of the existing missile cruisers. This is more than on all Tu-160 strategic bombers available in the Russian Aerospace Forces.


Characteristics of railway freight wagons

Yes, a missile train with a WTO database will not be able to strike at our opponents located on other continents, but this is not required of him. The range of the long-range WTO is about 1–000 kilometers, that is, most of Europe will be within reach from St. Petersburg, missiles will reach the countries of North Africa from Sevastopol, shoot through Turkey, most of the Persian Gulf, Afghanistan will be shot from Makhachkala . Missile trains can have no less potential in the east of the country - all existing and potential opponents of Russia will fall within their reach.


The conditional range of the use of the HTO database for targets in the south-west of the Eurasian continent - in fact, the reach area can be much larger

In addition to the missiles of the Kalibr-K complex, other systems of long-range high-precision weapons, for example, Geran-2-type UAV kamikaze launchers, can also be deployed as part of missile trains. Presumably, 2 launch containers can fit on one railway platform, with 5 kamikaze UAVs in each. That is, the total ammunition load of a missile train of 60 wagons, of which 10 support wagons, will amount to 500 (!) Kamikaze UAVs - the most inexpensive high-precision long-range weapon on the most economical carrier of all that you can imagine.


Launch container UAV-kamikaze type "Geran-2"

Probably, now it is clear why the project is called "Organ" - few weapons can be compared with it in terms of the number of "pipes".

Missile trains carrying kamikaze UAVs can be an ideal means of delivering massive strikes within the framework of the previously considered concept. UAV storm. According to this concept, missile trains should run along the route of the kamikaze UAV manufacturer - firing position, shoot ammunition, return to the factory, and so on until the war is over.

Rocket trains carrying cruise missiles and kamikaze UAVs could become basic weapons Strategic Conventional Forces on the continent.

Stealth and security


Russia has a unique experience in the use of combat railway missile systems (BZHRK), which in the recent past were used to supply the Russian Strategic Missile Forces (RVSN). It was believed that these BZHRKs were practically invulnerable to the enemy as a weapon of retaliation, since it was simply impossible to track them in the vast country.


BZHRK

However, nowadays this is no longer the case. Numerous Earth remote sensing satellites may well detect a rocket train in the parking lot, at least the zone of its last location. And here lies the key difference between the BZHRK, which is a retaliatory strike weapon, and a missile train carrying a WTO database as an attack weapon.

In the event that the BZHRK is tracked and the enemy decides to inflict sudden disarming strike, the alleged location of the BZHRK will be attacked using nuclear warheads (YABCh). No one will launch a nuclear attack on the alleged parking lot of the missile train carrying the WTO database, since it is clear what will follow.

And if you destroy the rocket train with high-precision weapons?

It is enough to look at any large junction station to understand that it is almost impossible to do this - not a single high-precision weapon, even equipped with optical guidance in the final section, will be able to isolate a missile train from dozens of other railway freight trains, especially since the "Organ" periodically it is possible to move a shunting diesel locomotive from one track to another - the main prey of the enemy in the event of a strike may well become wagons with rubble.


An example of what railway junctions look like

Thus, the security of the trains of the Organ project from enemy attacks by any non-nuclear weapons will be much higher than that of strategic aviation aircraft at airfields or ships and submarines of the Russian Navy in their bases.

As for the secrecy of advancing to positions, it will in any case be higher than that of strategic aircraft aviation The VKS of the Russian Federation or ships and submarines of the Russian Navy, the take-off of which from airfields or the exit from their bases almost always becomes known to the enemy.

Conclusions


Project "Organ" - missile trains carrying high-precision long-range weapons, is a logical development of the UAV-storm concept - the manufacture and use of long-range kamikaze UAVs in quantities of hundreds of thousands - a million units per year. Missile trains are the most economical and reliable means of delivering them from manufacturers to firing positions for the daily delivery of massive strikes against the enemy as part of the activities of the Strategic Conventional Forces.

Now we have neither hundreds of thousands of long-range kamikaze UAVs, nor missile trains of the Organ project, nor the Strategic Conventional Forces, but who knows how the situation in the NMD zone will develop in the future and what decisions it will require.
Author:
68 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Bingo
    Bingo 24 May 2023 04: 45
    -26
    The question is - why the hell are high-precision weapons mass launches?
    The answer is - but to cut it like mattresses on the Chimera! So that not MLRS and not OTRK
    1. Jose
      Jose 24 May 2023 05: 01
      +30
      and why the hell did the amers convert some of their Ohio SSBNs from carriers of 24 Tridents to carriers of 154 Tomahawks?
      1. Bingo
        Bingo 24 May 2023 06: 06
        -1
        Quote: Jose
        and why the hell amers converted part of their Ohio SSBNs

        Then that this is not a launcher, but transport, moreover, oceanic. Recharging is expensive. Here it is justified.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 24 May 2023 11: 20
        +11
        Quote: Jose
        and why the hell did the amers convert some of their Ohio SSBNs from carriers of 24 Tridents to carriers of 154 Tomahawks?

        But because otherwise they would have to be written off and cut - these submarines did not fit into the START treaties.

        Our fleet, for example, after signing the previous "reduction agreement" OSV-1, had to remake SSBN Project 658 into torpedo and special submarines.
    2. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 24 May 2023 07: 36
      +19
      Quote from Bingo
      The question is - why the hell are high-precision weapons mass launches?
      The answer is - but to cut it like mattresses on the Chimera! So that not MLRS and not OTRK

      To pass the air defense, overloading it with the number of targets. And also to create a shock in the military and administrative system of the enemy at the beginning of the conflict, when a large number of leaders and communication centers are immediately knocked out in the first strike
    3. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 24 May 2023 09: 56
      +3
      Quote from Bingo
      The question is - why the hell are high-precision weapons mass launches?

      It seems to me that if we used more massive launches of cruise missiles in Ukraine, the effect would be different, and it’s more difficult to intercept when 1 missiles fly at 10 target, and not 2. The United States in Syria seems to have 40-50 tomahawks and JASSM-ER launched (50 rockets = 22.5 tons of explosives) it seemed to be an airfield.
    4. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 24 May 2023 15: 09
      -2
      There are clear standards for how much CR is needed to hit a particular target. There are goals on the map and you can (need to count) how many pieces you need. Considering that there are no major carriers of this case in the Russian Federation and the length of our border and the presence of a ready-made CD ... this approach is correct.
    5. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 24 May 2023 22: 19
      +2
      If each rocket is given its own task, it will work out all the targets at once in one gulp and who the hell will bring down this whole cloud.
    6. Oleg Ogorod
      Oleg Ogorod 28 May 2023 16: 11
      0
      It can be seen here they pay for diarrhea from letters. The stronger it carries, the better. And the author came up with the Organ project?
      Mass launches of accurate ones are of course necessary, but in the article there is chaotic throwing from bullshit to well done, mixed with barguzins who left the club.
      Barguzin, yes, I saw your Barguzin, the car is like a car, it doesn’t look like a refrigerator. Close.
      However, the description of the concept is also delusional.
      However, the more nonsense, the more the brain of a potential combat partner will boil.
  2. Gnefredov
    Gnefredov 24 May 2023 04: 48
    0
    Those. As far as I understand, we will eventually have to send the Wagnerites to learn how to play the Organ. I like how "pianists" with the name of the project "Organ" are combined wink
    1. Saburov_Alexander53
      Saburov_Alexander53 24 May 2023 06: 34
      -1
      I like how "pianists" with the name of the project "Organ" are combined
      Agree! Not like masturbators with orgasms. We need classical music, not dyts-dyts. laughing
  3. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 24 May 2023 04: 51
    +20
    All these figures pale in comparison to the number of long-range precision weapons used by the Russian Armed Forces in the course of a special military operation (SVO) in Ukraine.
    Iraq, Libya, Yugoslavia - defeated .... But Ukraine - not very much! feel
    1. Jose
      Jose 24 May 2023 05: 03
      +19
      Iraq, Libya, Yugoslavia did not receive any external support from anyone. Those wars were beatings of the obviously weak and obviously strong.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 24 May 2023 05: 33
        +3
        Very interesting idea "rocket trains".
        It is much cheaper to move weapons along the hard roads ... struck a blow and quickly disappeared ... you can even launch rockets on the move. what
        A long war is primarily an economy ... logistics.
        And we seem to have a long butt with NATO, the EU, the USA.
        Therefore, willy-nilly, it will be necessary to reduce the cost of launching missiles, UAVs and other weapons.
        1. Saburov_Alexander53
          Saburov_Alexander53 24 May 2023 06: 45
          +2
          Very interesting idea "rocket trains".
          But with the Barguzin, we are in no hurry to revive this type of weapon. Probably, in addition to cost, there are objective reasons when, over time, this idea is no longer so rational. I remember when the idea of ​​placing missile systems disguised as ordinary cargo containers appeared about twenty years ago. Like, during a period of military aggravation, we put hundreds of such containers with a team of operators on civilian ships and go to the shores of the adversary ... The enemy will not guess where he will come from. But you should always remember about the mirror answer, which the enemy can do in the same way, and then someone will ... request
          1. Bodipancher
            Bodipancher 24 May 2023 07: 21
            +9
            Barguzin had a weak point. A large weight required reinforced railway tracks and towing by a bunch of diesel locomotives, which unmasked the positions. There are no such problems for placing tactical missiles on railway platforms.
            1. michell
              michell 24 May 2023 15: 25
              +8
              Barguzin had a weak spot. Heavy weight required reinforced railway tracks and towing by a bunch of diesel locomotives, which unmasked the positions.

              Let me correct you. The specified drawback was in the "Molodets" complex, since the UR-100N UTTKh missile, which had a launch weight of over 100 tons, was used there. Information flashed across the Barguzin that it was planned to use the Yars missile, the launch weight of which was about 50 tons, which is quite within the railway regulations.
              1. Saburov_Alexander53
                Saburov_Alexander53 25 May 2023 08: 36
                0
                Perhaps it was this progress with the presence of solid-propellant and relatively light rockets on automobile carriers that leveled the past advantages of the Barguzin. It is even easier to hide a car and bring it to the starting positions than a train with a rigid connection to the tracks and storage depot.
              2. bayard
                bayard 25 May 2023 19: 03
                +2
                Quote: michell
                Well done, because the UR-100N UTTKh missile, which has a launch weight of over 100 tons, was used there.

                "Well done", this is a solid-propellant rocket of the 15P961 complex, developed by the academicians of the Utkin brothers. UR-100UTTH - silo-based liquid-propellant ICBM developed by Academician Chelomey. It was precisely for the sake of the possibility of starting from any section of the railway in the USSR that almost the entire railway track was re-layed, replacing wooden sleepers with reinforced concrete.
                Quote: michell
                "Barguzin" flashed information that the Yars missile was planned to be used there

                In the Russian Federation, there is simply no other TT ICBM, "Molodtsev" was assembled in Ukraine in Pavlograd.
                There are really fewer problems with the launch of the Yars, it is lighter, one BZHRK can carry about six such missiles, it does not require a second pair of wheeled carts for the launch car, which will not unmask the BZHRK. So if this is exactly what the article is about, then there are no particular difficulties for this, but this is a lot of money and time + a full test cycle.
                But as I understand it, we are talking about something more massive - a CD in a "sea container" on railway platforms. This is certainly a good idea and not a new one. Moreover, these containers can be carried not only by trains, but also by cars, stored anywhere like ordinary containers, masked among ordinary containers, dispersed at any sites - these containers are now everywhere. And such containers can turn out to be everywhere. Including close to the USA.
                So it is better to talk about such containers (TPK) and options for their combat use.
          2. meandr51
            meandr51 25 May 2023 13: 43
            0
            The Russian Federation has a small maritime border where container ships operate. Therefore, the advantage is on our side.
        2. -Paul-
          -Paul- 24 May 2023 08: 00
          -1
          Yes, a very interesting idea.
          In addition, the take-off of a large number of air carriers is detected by modern reconnaissance equipment, and the train can be driven to the launch point relatively imperceptibly.
        3. Hagen
          Hagen 26 May 2023 18: 42
          0
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          Very interesting idea "rocket trains".

          I think the train is not at the center of the idea. Any type of transport can be used as a chassis. This is railway, and automobile, and river, and sea ... The essence of the idea is in a universal container launcher. Type "Caliber-K".

          1. ailcat
            ailcat 28 May 2023 17: 29
            0
            ONLY a train or a ship can be used as a carrier.
            In the advertising booklets for Club-K, they show only 1 container with missiles, modestly hiding from view another 3 launch support containers (one set for 8 missiles). That is, to launch 8 missiles, we need "only" 5 containers (to launch 16 missiles - 10 containers, 24 missiles - 15 containers, etc., etc.). I would like to believe that one day the auxiliary equipment will be stuck in one container, but when this will happen and whether it will happen at all - history is silent.
            And this is not counting the containers with reconnaissance equipment (determining the location of the launch complex, its position in space, weather conditions, etc.), the command and control complex and equipment for operator positions, and so on, so on, so on. But here it is already easier: if the train is standing in a straight line (or it is a ship) - these containers can be had in one copy, regardless of the number of launchers.
      2. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 24 May 2023 05: 46
        +4
        Quote: Jose
        beatings of obviously weak ones by obviously strong ones.

        And now the second army is hitting the twenty-second on the list ... And it has used orders of magnitude more missiles! Doesn't fit somehow...
        1. Bingo
          Bingo 24 May 2023 07: 38
          -3
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          And now the second army is beating the twenty-second on the list ...

          If from the same key, then now a "gang of criminals with a cook" has pulled on the "Best Army in Europe", which used to supply 50 armies of the world, on the 6th it seems the arms dealer in the world, and so on for decades. And the gang, they say, didn’t even have shells ...
          So, for example, the Americans are already whining that 140 billion were given to Ukraine in a year, this is more than Russia's defense budget, maybe it's time to reduce the sturgeon, about the fact that Russia is at war with only Ukraine, huh?
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 24 May 2023 10: 42
            +3
            Quote from Bingo
            Russia is at war with only Ukraine, huh?

            That the whole West is arming Ukraine is understandable .... I am talking about the use of missiles by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It turns out that the war is not won by missiles alone.
      3. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 24 May 2023 08: 06
        +8
        Quote: Jose
        Iraq, Libya, Yugoslavia did not receive any external support from anyone. Those wars were beatings of the obviously weak and obviously strong.

        If the Armed Forces of Ukraine were defeated at the same speed as these countries, then the Armed Forces of Ukraine would also have no external replenishment. Lend-Lease swayed very slowly there and even now it has not reached a serious scale. No one, like during WWII, sends tens of thousands of tanks and aircraft
  4. Bodipancher
    Bodipancher 24 May 2023 05: 53
    +6
    Russia is a land power, all covered with a dense network of railways. Cheapness, high stability of the railway network and the possibility of covert transfer (camouflage) over long distances are obvious. It is very strange that the project proposed by the author has not yet been implemented. There are no obstacles other than stupid international agreements imposed in the 80-90s. A
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 24 May 2023 07: 38
      +2
      Quote: Bodypuncher
      Russia is a land power, all covered with a dense network of railways. Cheapness, high stability of the railway network and the possibility of covert transfer (camouflage) over long distances are obvious. It is very strange that the project proposed by the author has not yet been implemented. There are no obstacles other than stupid international agreements imposed in the 80-90s. A

      One mine on the route and the train with all its missiles turns into a huge firework. The same Armed Forces of Ukraine are actively operating in our rear, and satellites and intelligence will direct such trains. A very cheap sabotage with huge damage from which there is no protection. After all, you can’t block all railway tracks with guards
      1. Bodipancher
        Bodipancher 24 May 2023 08: 17
        +3
        Caliber has a range of more than 2 kilometers, so the launches will go from the deep rear, the cars look like ordinary container ships that can alternate with civilian cars and stand in any dead end constantly moving between launches. A very difficult target for reconnaissance and laying mines. I think that's why the West pushed through sea and air basing for short and medium-range cruise and ballistic missiles where they have an advantage. In general, rockets, bombs and shells for loading onto ships and planes are also transported in echelons, huge torches are not visible.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 24 May 2023 11: 25
          +6
          Quote: Bodypuncher
          Caliber has a range of more than 2 kilometers, so the launches will go from the deep rear, the cars look like ordinary container ships that can alternate with civilian cars and stand in any dead end constantly moving between launches.

          All movement of trains along the railway is controlled by a civilian automated control system. Enough access to it at road level - and the rocket train will be in full view.
          The "invisibility" of rocket trains on our railway will be the same as that of the B-2 "Spirit", if it is directed to fly only along civilian corridors with a permanently switched on transponder. smile
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 24 May 2023 15: 12
            -5
            AUG is also visible and calculated, and even launch areas in the Russian Federation are known. And what?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 24 May 2023 16: 14
              +4
              Quote: Zaurbek
              AUG is also visible and calculated

              Uh-huh ... recently they wrote - how AUGs are visible. Even from space, they are detected only from time to time.
              Our fleet had the sad experience of Flitex-82, when, knowing full well about the ongoing USN exercises, our fleet blundered the Midway approach, finding it only 300 miles from the SSBN base. And then they lost it again - as a result of which the conditional strike of the MRA that flew out the next day fell into an empty place.

              If we take AUG as an analogue, then in order to achieve "stealth" comparable to rocket trains, AUS ships need to go with transponders turned on - so that they can be seen on marinetraffic. smile
          2. Puzoter
            Puzoter 24 May 2023 20: 47
            0
            What is a rocket train? The same firewood is being transported from Mukhosparsk to Saratov. How will this ACS know about the "rocket train"? A narrow circle of people will know, as it should be, but the train ... Yes, the train is like a train.
            1. Suhoy
              Suhoy 24 May 2023 23: 46
              +3
              All the same, individuals from Russian Railways will have to be kept informed. Without this monopolist, it is impossible to drive a train packed to capacity with rockets across the expanses of the Motherland. And when effective managers organize the sale of information about the current location of such trains, it is only a matter of time.
              1. Puzoter
                Puzoter 25 May 2023 17: 20
                0
                Effective managers love life much more than money, no doubt about it. All you have to do is put things on.
      2. ailcat
        ailcat 28 May 2023 17: 33
        0
        That is why strategic complexes have exclusively wheeled chassis.
        It is easier to protect it, and mines can be trawled directly on the march
    2. alexoff
      alexoff 24 May 2023 22: 28
      -1
      Obstacles are the railroad workers who earn money in these ways, they have schedules there, high workloads and big money, they wind unaccountable military back and forth a bone in their throat. The main reason is high-precision weapons, these are not sausages to be produced in thousands a year, they are not riveted with conveyors, they cost money.
    3. Sumotori_380
      Sumotori_380 25 May 2023 19: 49
      0
      The connection between the European part and the Far East is maintained on one Trans-Siberian
    4. Victorovich
      Victorovich 30 May 2023 15: 26
      +1
      stop
      Lord .. who blurted out such a thing - a large country with a dense railway network ...
      What would such a statement ... well, you first look at the map of the railway of RUSSIA and then look at the map of the railway of the USA .. and try to compare them.
      Our country is big. There is no density, there is none at all.
      Well, at least Wikipedia was opened for a start ... fool
  5. oldmetal
    oldmetal 24 May 2023 06: 34
    -1
    "however, in connection with the withdrawal of the United States and Russia from this treaty, it makes sense to place the WTO database only on large ships of the first and second ranks, capable of operating far from their own shores."

    Large ships do not fit well in small seas, such as the Black Sea or the Caspian Sea, otherwise yes, it’s more profitable to have a smaller ship, and carry more on them ...
    1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 24 May 2023 16: 28
      0
      There were many large ships in the Black Sea before Yeltsin, including the Admiral Kuznetsov, and there were no special problems due to their size.
  6. Taimen
    Taimen 24 May 2023 06: 39
    -3
    The author wrote well and correctly. Yes, but who needs it here? Now, if he wrote how to get to Courchevel now for a fool to "dear partners" or to raise more loot while the mess is going on, then it would be the same.
  7. Konnick
    Konnick 24 May 2023 07: 49
    +6
    Russia has a unique application experience combat railway missile systems (BZHRK), which in the recent past were used to supply the Russian Strategic Missile Forces (RVSN). It was believed that these BZHRKs were practically invulnerable to the enemy as a weapon of retaliation, since it was simply impossible to track them in the vast country.

    It was considered ... What a delusion ... This is from the "no analogues" series. Firstly, these trains were tied to certain routes, specially built tracks with increased carrying capacity and a large turning radius, since the cars had two 4-axle bogies, which, by the way, were produced in Zhdanov (Mariupol). Secondly, they were easily traced as the cars had an increased length and a top view like a covered refrigerated car. In the third, the train had a small number of cars and two locomotives, which immediately gave it a special status and many, many more special features. Do you think all the generals do not understand, no, many are at a good level of understanding and predicting situations, which is why they abandoned the railway base.
    А application experience it wasn’t, and that’s good, there was experience in building and putting into service. I do not remember that these trains were on combat duty. Just wasted money with the current level of satellite monitoring.
    1. Couchexpert
      Couchexpert 24 May 2023 10: 21
      0
      The remark is appropriate, for strategic missiles it is really necessary to "fence the garden" for many reasons. But the "Caliber" seems to fit in a standard sea container in length (it's just not clear whether it will be possible to launch from a standard platform on a regular railway track). And if we are talking about drones, then there are no problems at all.
      It is possible to further develop the idea of ​​"the cheapest possible delivery": to rearrange it on simple "civilian" wheels - from the outside it will look like an ordinary tilt semi-trailer, the hydraulics of the supports are hidden behind the walls, there are no other unmasking elements. It will also be easier for the car, if necessary, to change its appearance: the color of the awning, numbers, model of the tractor ... The main thing is not to "sleep" on a monotonous route. One way or another, somehow the same missiles / drones are delivered to warehouses / military units, don’t they go to factories behind them in tanks? Now just the production of ground-based launchers is no longer limited to anything, so why not?
  8. Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 24 May 2023 09: 00
    +7
    Regarding stealth - where to place guards and crews? In containers? And not let out for a breath of fresh air? And as soon as such a breakthrough of armed people comes out at the same time, all the invisibility of the “commodity” train will go into oblivion.
    Everyone heard about “all eggs in one basket”, but for some reason they forgot about it.
    In the Russian Federation, almost all roads are electrified, will we launch rockets through wires? Yes, the problem was previously solved, but for a small number of launchers, a train of fifty wagons is proposed here. Of course it is solvable, but the snowball is growing.
    It is proposed to ride these trains in the most densely populated areas of the country, with all possible consequences for this country itself. And the number of railway tracks is not infinite and not optimal, railways were built for other purposes.
    Continuous shaking of cars on rails will definitely have a negative impact on the resource of missiles. And if in peacetime you put trains in a sump on sidings, then this sump still needs to be built and guarded like the apple of an eye, because it won’t be possible to hide it anyway, and it will be an excellent goal.
    Riding drugs along the railway is not a service in the garrison, which means you will have to maintain at least three shifts of crews.
    No one has canceled routine maintenance, they won’t be able to be carried out at the database, which means that we will have to solve the problem of transporting containers from their places of unloading to the depots. Additional containers with ammunition will automatically be required.
    And this is only offhand. In reality, there will be many more problems.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 May 2023 11: 33
      +3
      Quote: Sergey Valov
      In the Russian Federation, almost all roads are electrified, will we launch rockets through wires? Yes, the problem was previously solved, but for a small number of PUs, a composition of fifty wagons is proposed here.

      There is a way out - ZOKS.

      It’s just that my father told me that during tests and with a pair of ZOKSs there was an eternal problem of failures in the preparation for firing cycle due to constant failures of the limit switches (the ZOKS is in fact standing, but the limit switch didn’t work - that’s it, the system believes that the contact network above the car not retracted and under current, the rise of the TPK is canceled). And here on ZOKS for each container ... belay
    2. Avarron
      Avarron 24 May 2023 23: 43
      -3
      Lord, I sucked problems out of my finger. As if someone ordered the guards to wear military uniforms without fail. The shape of the conductors will not roll in any way? And concealed carrying weapons have not yet been invented, like body armor?
      Don't let it breathe, you say? Well, it became a shame for the submariners. They, you know, sniff the ocean floor for half a year in a tin can.
      The wires are quietly removed to the side, the railways in Russia are dark and dark. I was generally pleased about the shaking in the cars. Have you seen potholes on the rails somewhere in Russia? Confused with the US?
      What else is the problem of transporting containers to the warehouses? Did you even understand what you wrote? Is there a problem with container transportation in Russia? Even in Zimbabwe, there is no such problem. And you can poke rembases in any sheds across the country, one CNC machining center will replace a dozen conventional machines. Based on this, the rembaza can be transported on the same train in containers.
      Do not write more, please.
      1. Sumotori_380
        Sumotori_380 25 May 2023 19: 54
        +2
        Yes. Station of the city. There is a train on neighboring tracks, a bunch of conductors crowd around it - young men without a single woman - and no one is imprisoned. In 10 minutes he is in all social networks of the country
  9. Victor V.
    Victor V. 24 May 2023 10: 53
    +1
    There is a saying "you can't hide an awl in a bag". so here too - an "invisible" garrison to guard this trailer.))))) because the risk that they will commit sabotage / steal is simply huge.
  10. the same doctor
    the same doctor 24 May 2023 12: 58
    +3
    Conclusion: high-precision weapons are useless in the absence of reconnaissance and target designation. Especially if the authorities suffer from humanism in the extreme stage and rejoice at the defeat of all the rubbish that the Ukrainians specially pulled out for display.
    The second conclusion: we need to focus on high-precision battlefield weapons, controlled from the trench. Satellite reconnaissance is optional there. The same geranium, but with a charge of 200 kg and a range of 5 km will be more useful.
    1. Mikhail Maslov
      Mikhail Maslov 24 May 2023 13: 59
      0
      The war showed that different high-precision weapons are needed and the more the better. As for the KR in containers, it’s a very good idea, a train, a car, a ship, plus any platform for unloading a container, all this should work remotely and covertly.
  11. Adrey
    Adrey 24 May 2023 13: 45
    +4
    Like it or not, the network of highways (and dirt roads) is wider than the railway. No problems with wires hanging from above. Disguise is much simpler, there are countless trucks on the roads, their movement is not fixed in any system, they do not glow on the network. Security, a couple of UAZs and shift workers, will also not stand out from the general stream. For high-precision weapons, the concentration of launchers at one point is completely uncritical and even harmful from the point of view of vulnerability.
  12. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 24 May 2023 15: 17
    -1
    You need to understand that such a train from the Kyrgyz Republic is not a weapon against the United States, but a weapon against + 1t km along our borders. And the train itself does not need to be built separately. Why not?
  13. TOR2
    TOR2 24 May 2023 20: 36
    0
    Here it is worth starting from simple logic. We put on the rails, something that other media will not pull. If you create such trains, then first of all, automatic reloading should be provided. After the volley, the train set into motion, and we reload on the go. In addition, it is necessary to provide for the possibility of combining such systems into a single network. This is where the Russian Railways Intranet (not to be confused with the Internet) can come in handy. As for camouflage, I would like to note that not only reconnaissance equipment has stepped forward. Mounting on the roof can show different differences, for example: a refrigerated wagon from space will look like a coal wagon.
  14. acetophenone
    acetophenone 24 May 2023 21: 00
    -1
    The idea is more than sound. Moreover, Russian Railways is a very specific organization. The effective managers did not have time to optimize it.
  15. Mikhail Ivanov
    Mikhail Ivanov 24 May 2023 22: 25
    +2
    The article was written by Kir Bulychev, from the category of non-science fiction. What idiot will drive 200 high-precision missiles into one train, and most importantly, for what ???
  16. Avarron
    Avarron 24 May 2023 23: 35
    -2
    Interestingly, where did the information come from that such trains did not appear? Why then disguise them as ordinary trains, if their appearance must be trumpeted throughout Deribasovskaya?
    If the club-K container complexes are produced in sufficient quantities, then it is a matter of a couple of days maximum to form such a train.
    Perhaps I won’t be much mistaken if I assume that at any given time several container ships with a couple of containers with surprises on board are hanging off the coast of the United States and sub-Britain. Nothing prevented us from delivering them to China for a start, repainting them in the colors of some COSCO, for example, and from there carrying them around the world, periodically reloading them from side to side.
    1. Sumotori_380
      Sumotori_380 25 May 2023 19: 58
      0
      Dear, we do not have enough container ships to carry goods! What is there to hang out near the USA
    2. Sumotori_380
      Sumotori_380 25 May 2023 20: 47
      0
      Two questions. First: what weapons will be in surprises? Conventional? And what's the point in that? America is like a pellet to an elephant. Nuclear? What for? To get better, when some kind of red jihad or tigers of liberation of something cut through this chip and, having attacked a container carrier, will acquire nuclear weapons? Second: how will you import it to China? Secretly? Is this possible? Obviously? Does China need it?
  17. SiberianGun
    SiberianGun 25 May 2023 12: 45
    +1
    The author writes correctly! Features of Russia, as a continental state-civilization - in large territories and therefore large volumes. It must be understood that there is a difference between an attack on Iraq and poor Yugoslavia and an attack on Europe. As it was during the Second World War, a large wide front was moving there.
    The idea in this strategic sense is absolutely correct. Another thing, where did so many Calibers come from? Maybe you need something simpler, so that massively? About Gerani - absolutely right: a train arrived, received data, target designations (already on the way!), Released "flowers" and immediately left. To factory. The West is freaking out...
  18. Alexander X
    Alexander X 25 May 2023 12: 58
    +1
    No one interferes, except for trains with missiles in containers, to let fakes imitators. And then, in general, the adversary of FIG understand where to shoot ...
    And if the Geranium train arrives... The end of the enemies...
  19. meandr51
    meandr51 25 May 2023 13: 50
    +1

    One mine on the route and the train with all its missiles turns into a huge firework. The same Armed Forces of Ukraine are actively operating in our rear, and satellites and intelligence will direct such trains. A very cheap sabotage with huge damage from which there is no protection. After all, you can’t block all railway tracks with guards [/ quote]
    To do this, you need to know the route of the train. It is enough that the route is chosen randomly before departure. The probability is low. In addition, only a few wagons can be damaged by one mine.
  20. meandr51
    meandr51 25 May 2023 13: 52
    +1
    Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
    The article was written by Kir Bulychev, from the category of non-science fiction. What idiot will drive 200 high-precision missiles into one train, and most importantly, for what ???

    It is possible and 2 to 100. Why swear?
  21. Bormanxnumx
    Bormanxnumx 25 May 2023 14: 07
    0
    The author writes
    The invasion of Iraq in 2003 - the bloody denouement of the long-term war of the Western countries against Iraq - in addition to the Tomahawk missile launcher, AGM-86D CALCM air-launched missiles were used, the latest Storm Shadow missile launcher at that time, which are British accomplices, more precisely - rather ideologists of Nazism, now supplied to the armed forces of Ukraine, operational-tactical missiles MGM-140 ATACMS and many other WTO samples were used. The exact number is unknown, most likely something in the region of a thousand strokes.

    No one hid this data from the author)

    Slightly more than a thousand strokes is obtained.
  22. Alexander Timchenko
    Alexander Timchenko 26 May 2023 23: 13
    0
    Judging by the increased sabotage (according to official data voiced in the media) on our railways, the enemy is well aware of this danger and, apparently, is working ahead of the curve. For, by damaging the railway equipment, it is possible to block the extension of such a train to the right place
  23. ailcat
    ailcat 28 May 2023 17: 36
    0
    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
    There were many large ships in the Black Sea before Yeltsin, including the Admiral Kuznetsov, and there were no special problems due to their size.

    Solely due to the fact that it was the Mediterranean fleet.
    Easily multiplied by zero in a conflict in the waters of the Black Sea itself - through aviation and missile weapons.
    1. 9lvariag
      9lvariag 4 June 2023 00: 11
      0
      Quote: ailcat
      Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
      There were many large ships in the Black Sea before Yeltsin, including the Admiral Kuznetsov, and there were no special problems due to their size.

      Solely due to the fact that it was the Mediterranean fleet.
      Easily multiplied by zero in a conflict in the waters of the Black Sea itself - through aviation and missile weapons.

      Well, yes, in this case, we would have been beaten, and we would have been silent. One MCI for one AUG or a naval base - fairy tales may be enough for the night. Otherwise, this is no longer funny. No matter how you read all the time, you want to send VO to the ban aftermath and send 50-60% of the miserable propagandists from Haifa and Ashkelon to work with their hands.