Modern Russian attack helicopters

121
One of the most important points of the current State Armaments Program (LG) is the supply of over 1100 helicopters. By 2020, the domestic defense industry should transfer to the armed forces precisely this amount of rotorcraft. Deliveries have already begun and helicopters of seven types and modifications are being sent to the troops. By the end of the State Program, the number of types may increase by one and a half to two times. Special attention during the procurement of new helicopters is paid to the percussion machines. Until recently, the task of supporting troops and enemy attacks was assigned only to the “old man” Mi-24 and its modifications. Now, the air force receives three types of combat helicopters, differing from each other in characteristics, equipment and strike capabilities. These are Mi-35M (deep upgrading of Mi-24, also known as Mi-24ВМ), Mi-28Н and Ka-52. Just a few years ago, one could hope to continue the construction of the Ka-50 helicopter, but as a result it was discontinued in favor of a newer and more advanced Ka-52. Let's try to carefully consider the available attack helicopters, compare and evaluate their capabilities. Unfortunately, some of the technical information on the latest helicopters has not yet become public knowledge, so you will have to be content with only the official data available, even if they are incomplete.

Flight performance

Considered machines vary considerably in a constructive aspect. The machines of the company “Mil” are made according to the classical scheme with the main and tail screws. They are also equipped with original X-shaped tail rotors, which have increased efficiency in comparison with the screws of the usual scheme. Ka-52, in turn, is made according to the traditional for Kamov scheme and has two coaxial bearing screws. The advantages and disadvantages of the schemes used for several years have been the subject of fierce disputes, but the designers and the military have made their choice: they understand the cons of the classical and pine schemes, but for the sake of the advantages they are ready to endure. In addition, some interest is the fact that the main helicopters of the Russian Air Force to the 2020 year should be the "classic" Mi-28H and coaxial Ka-52. Thus, there is, if one may say so, a balance between the schemes.

Modern Russian attack helicopters
The Ka-52 helicopters of the installation batch are in standard equipment including the defense complex - board No. 52 and board No. XXUMX yellow (http://militaryphotos.net)


Helicopter Mi-28H board No. 50 yellow from a batch of helicopters transferred to the Air Force at 344 air base TSBPiPLLS AA 8 October 2011, Torzhok, Tver region (photo by Sergey Ablogin, http://ablogin.ru/)


All three helicopters significantly differ at the level of weight and size parameters. The Ka-52 has the smallest size among the machines under consideration. With a maximum take-off weight of 10400 kilogram, it has a length of 13,5 meter and diameter of main rotors 14,5 m. Milevsky Mi-28 is slightly larger: length of 17 meters, main rotor diameter 17,2 m and maximum take-off weight of 11,7 tons. The largest of the new helicopters is the Mi-35M, having a maximum take-off weight of 11800 kg and a length in excess of the 18,5 meter. It is noteworthy that both Mil helicopters are equipped with the same rotors and tail rotors, originally developed for the Mi-28H.

Interestingly, the situation with the power plant helicopters. All of them, in accordance with the development trends of combat helicopters, are equipped with two engines. This reduces the risks associated with damage to one of the engines and, as a result, increases the survivability of machines in combat conditions. In addition, all three helicopters are equipped with TV3-117ВМА turboshaft motors of the Klimov family. The Mi-35M has engines of this model with an 2200 takeoff horsepower each, and the Mi-28Н and Ka-52 are equipped with later modifications. Thus, the Mi-28H is equipped with VK-2500-02 motors (2200 hp in takeoff mode), and the Ka-52 is equipped with VK-2500 engines with overclocking capability to 2400 hp. It should be noted that the indicated power indicators are achieved only for a certain short time. In flight, it is recommended to keep the engine power at no more than 1750-1800 horsepower. At the same time, all engines of the TV3-117ВМА family have an emergency mode, on which they are able to reach the horsepower level in 2600-2700. True, such power indicators require subsequent additional maintenance.

Engine TV3-117


VK-2500 (upgraded version of TVZ-117)


It is easy to see that the Ka-52 helicopter looks the most interesting in terms of the combination of weight, size and power parameters. With the maximum allowable weight on take-off engines, it has a specific power up to 460 hp. per ton of weight. For Mi-35M and Mi-28H, this parameter is approximately 370 and 375 hp. per ton, respectively. Thus, the Kamov helicopter, having a large thrust-to-weight ratio, should in theory have better flight characteristics. However, high specific power indices were obtained, first of all, due to the small mass of the structure and, as a consequence, the relatively low combat load. At the same time, a number of features of the concept led to the fact that the lighter Ka-52 is capable of carrying more equipment and weapons than the Mi-35H. The Kamov machine has a payload of about two tons, while in the Mi-35M this figure is only 1780 kg. As for the Mi-28H, it can carry a kilogram of weapons on an external sling up to 2300.

The flight parameters of all three helicopters are quite close, although they differ from each other. The maximum speed of all cars is within 310-320 kilometers per hour. In this case, the Mi-35М and Ka-52, if necessary, can accelerate to 340 km / h, however, in the declared characteristics, this speed is listed as the maximum allowable. The newer Mi-28H and Ka-52 helicopters benefit from the deeply upgraded Mi-24 in the dynamic and static ceiling. The first indicator for these machines is within 5-5,5 thousand meters, the second is equal to 3600 m. The static and dynamic ceiling of the Mi-35М is less than these indicators by 450-500 meters. Mi-35M can not boast range. Its practical range is equal to 420 kilometers, and in the distillation configuration, it can travel up to a thousand kilometers. For Mi-28H these figures are 500 and 1100, and for Ka-52 - 520 and 1200 kilometers, respectively.

Mi-35M (http://www.airforce.ru)


It must be borne in mind that the maximum flight range, as well as speed and ceiling, is not in itself the most important parameter of a helicopter, but may indicate its capabilities regarding the duration of the stay in the air. The experience of the armed conflicts of recent years has shown that a modern combat helicopter should, first of all, be able to perform long patrols of a given area, regardless of the time of day and weather conditions. It was precisely with the help of helicopters that NATO troops hunted regular enemy caravans or even individual militants.

Crew and his protection

The concept of the use of attack helicopters implies a high risk of being attacked by enemy anti-aircraft weapons. Because of this, all the cars in this class have a whole set of crew safety equipment. All three helicopters under consideration, the Mi-35M, the Mi-28H and the Ka-52, have crews of two. According to the results of lengthy disputes, a scheme with two pilots was recognized as the most profitable: a pilot and an arms operator. Previously, it was proposed to assign all duties to one pilot, but the customer, in the person of the Ministry of Defense, declared this option unpromising and inconvenient. As a result, all new domestic attack helicopters are made double.

As in the case of rotors, the Kamov car is different from the Mi helicopters. The latter have a tandem cab: the pilot sits in the back and above the navigator-operator. On the Ka-52, the commander’s workplace is located to the left of the vehicle axis, and the operator’s seat is to the right. On all three vehicles, weapons operators have the ability to control the helicopter, and pilots can use weapon. At the same time, due to the division of duties and the equipment corresponding to them, the pilot cannot fully use the full combat potential of the helicopter. To protect the crew and vital units, all three helicopters have an additional reservation: bulletproof glass and metal panels. The level of protection of various parts varies. For example, the armor panels of the cockpit of the Mi-28H helicopter can withstand a missile with a caliber of up to 20 millimeters.

KA-52 Cab


Instruments in the cockpit (left) and navigator-operator (right) of the Mi-28H helicopter. (photo - Alexey Mikheev, Fomin A. Mi-28H - shipments are growing. // Take-off. No. 1-2 / 2011)


In case of a forced landing with a high vertical speed, the Mi-35М, Mi-28Н and Ka-52 helicopters have a special design chassis that absorbs part of the impact force on the ground. Most of the remaining impact is absorbed by special design seats. In addition, the Ka-52 and Mi-28H helicopters have an ejection system to rescue the pilots in an accident at high altitudes.

Unguided weapons

For several decades, the main armament of domestic attack helicopters was barrel systems and unguided missiles, and the use of "smart" ammunition had a much smaller scope. In the new helicopters, all the possibilities for the use of cannon and missile weapons are fully preserved. The Mi-35M, Mi-28N and Ka-52 helicopters have the ability to carry blocks of unguided missiles of various types and calibers on pylons under the wing, from S-8 (up to four blocks of 20 missiles) to S-13 (four to five). In addition, the Mi-35M and Ka-52, if necessary, are capable of using up to four S-24 missiles of 240 mm caliber. All three helicopters have the ability to use aviation bombs of various types of caliber up to 500 kilograms.

In addition to the pylons for the suspension of weapons, all three machines have built-in cannon systems. The Ka-52 and Mi-28H helicopters are equipped with automatic guns 2А42 (millimeters 30), Mi-35Н - GSH-23 (two-barreled caliber 23 millimeter). Mobile gun mounts mounted on the Mi-28Н and Mi-35М, allow you to direct weapons within large sectors horizontally and vertically. Ka-52, in turn, does not have such an opportunity: its gun installation is not located in the forward fuselage, but on the starboard side, which significantly reduces the sector of horizontal pickup. Both guns used on helicopters are designed to destroy ground and air targets at ranges of up to two (GSH-23) or up to four (2A42) kilometers. The targeting of guns is carried out with the help of electric drives controlled by the weapon operator. It is noteworthy that the process of pointing guns affected the capabilities of the pilots. For example, the pilot of the Mi-28H cannot control the gun if it is not located along the longitudinal axis of the vehicle and is not in a horizontal position. Only with such an arrangement cannon can the pilot aim with the help of his aiming equipment. In all other cases, targeting and shooting is performed by the weapon operator.

Ka-52 board №062 yellow, March 2012 (photo - kabuki, http://russianplanes.net/)


ATGM “Ataka-V” and a NAR B-13 unit under the Mi-28H board No. 38 at the MAKS-2011 air show exposition, August 2011 (photo - VLAS, http://militaryrussia.ru/forum)


The NAR B-13 unit and the Strelets launcher with Igla missiles under the Mi-28H board No. 38 at the MAKS-2011 air show, August 2011 (photo - VLAS, http://militaryrussia.ru/forum)


Guided weapons

The duties of the navigator-operator also include working with guided weapons. Traditionally, all domestic attack helicopters have the ability to carry anti-tank missiles, and the Mi-35M, Mi-28H and Ka-52 are no exception. The Mil machines in question can carry up to 12-16 anti-tank guided missiles “Sturm” or “Attack”. Arsenal Ka-52 consists of missiles "Attack" or "Whirlwind." These missile systems significantly differ from each other in the characteristics of missiles and guidance systems.

The oldest complex "Sturm-V" (70-s development) has a radio command guidance system and provides a maximum firing range of five kilometers. The warhead of the 9М114 rocket provides penetration of homogeneous armor with a thickness up to 650 millimeters. The use of a semi-automatic control system in the Sturm complex led to the fact that the armament operator was forced to hold the aiming mark on the target for some time after the launch. This fact somewhat reduces the combat capabilities of the helicopter, since it is forced to remain motionless before hitting the target and will not be able to effectively use the tactics of the jump.

A further development of Sturm-V was the Ataka-V complex with the 9М120 rocket. During the upgrade, improved rocket performance. So, 9М120 is capable of delivering a warhead up to ten kilometers away and punching up to 800 millimeters of homogeneous armor for dynamic protection. There is information about the development of a laser homing head for the “Attack” missile. The principle of missile guidance on commands from a helicopter is similar to Sturm. This feature of the “Attack-B” complex is a reason for criticism. It should be noted that at a speed of about 500 m / s, the 9М120 rocket reaches the target at maximum range in about 20 seconds. In order to avoid a helicopter hitting during a “jump,” the onboard control equipment of the Ataki provides the ability to maneuver with some limits on roll and pitch.

The Whirlwind anti-tank missile system with the 9А4172 rocket has a laser guidance system and automatic control equipment. The latter independently accompanies target tracking and guides missiles at it. The maximum launch range of the Whirlwind missile complex reaches ten kilometers. At speeds in excess of 600 meters per second, the rocket travels that distance in 15-17 seconds. Thus, the enemy's air defense may simply not have time to detect and attack the helicopter. In addition, the automatic target tracking and missile guidance system can significantly reduce the burden on pilots. This system was one of the reasons for reducing the crew of the Ka-50 helicopter to one person. Tandem warhead breaks up to a meter of homogeneous armor.

Despite its strike mission, the Mi-35М, Mi-28Н and Ka-52 helicopters have the ability to carry air-to-air guided missiles designed for self-defense. These are the Igla-B missiles (range up to 5-6 km) and P-60 (7-8 km). The number of missiles on the suspension depends on the tactical need and the type of helicopter. Thus, the Mi-35М carries only two Igla-V missiles, and the Mi-28Н and Ka-52 carries up to four Eagle or Р-60.

The first prototype of the Ka-52 board No. 061 yellow on the tests of operation of the helicopter from the ships of the Navy, Northern Fleet, 03.09.2011 (http://pressa-zvo.livejournal.com)


Mi-28H board №36 yellow, probably with updated nadvulochnoy radar. 1-2 April 2012 (photo - kabuki, http://russianplanes.net/)


On-board equipment

Being a deep modernization of the old Mi-24, the helicopter Mi-35М received relatively few serious innovations in the composition of the onboard equipment, affecting certain features of the appearance. One of them concerns the installation of the new PNK-24 aiming and navigation complex, created using the developments of the PrNK-28 project for the Mi-28H helicopter. The optoelectronic station, observation instruments and the equipment of the cabin were updated. As a result, the combat potential of the helicopter significantly increased. It is sometimes argued that at the moment the onboard equipment of the Mi-35M provides the helicopter with the maximum possible characteristics that a fairly old design allows to achieve.

The basis of the on-board radio-electronic equipment of the Mi-28H helicopter is the PrNK-28 complex, which provides flight operations and combat work. The armament control systems and navigation equipment are integrated into this complex. In addition, the PrNK-28 is connected to the H-025 radar. Its antenna is placed in a characteristic spherical radome above the screw hub. The use of a radar station greatly expands the capabilities of the helicopter, as it allows it to operate in any weather and at any time of the day. Radar H-025 has two main modes of operation: aerial and ground targets. In the case of tracking the ground, the radar in the mapping mode “inspects” a sector 120 wide in degrees at a distance of up to 32 kilometers. The detection and tracking of targets, depending on their EPR, occurs at distances 12-15 kilometers (tank). Larger objects, such as bridges, the station notices with 23-25 km. In the air mode, the station's antenna performs a circular scan in the 60 sector of degrees in elevation (in the vertical plane). Airplanes and helicopters in this case are “visible” at a distance of about 15 kilometers. Anti-aircraft missiles and air-to-air ammunition - from five to six kilometers. Thus, the pilots have the opportunity to timely learn about the attack and do all the necessary actions.

The onboard equipment of the Ka-52 helicopter is somewhat similar to that used on the Mi-28Н, but it has a number of differences. For example, the РБХNUMX “Crossbow” radar intended for the Ka-52 was originally built using a two-module scheme. The antenna of the first block of this radar was planned to be installed under the radio transparent nose fairing, the second - above the hub of rotors. At the moment, all or almost all new serial helicopters are equipped with a radar nose block, but there is no accurate information about the above-arm. Such an original division of the radar system was proposed to improve the characteristics of the complex: the nasal antenna can only work on ground targets all the time, and the nodo antenna can only work on airborne targets. Thus, the helicopter becomes able to respond in time to various threats, at the same time collecting information about the situation in the air and on the ground. Also, the equipment of the Ka-01 helicopter includes the GOES-52 optical-electronic station, designed for round-the-clock observation of the terrain and target detection. The optoelectronic station is located at the bottom of the fuselage, right behind the nose fairing.

Ka-52 board №94 yellow, summer 2011 (photo - Elvis, http://www.photosight.ru)


Mi-28N onboard №16 blue 2010 release with full staffing onboard defense complex, 17.01.2011 (photo - Sergey Ablogin, http://www.airliners.net)


Results

As you can see, all modern Russian attack helicopters are both similar and different from each other. The similarity is due to the general views of the military on the appearance of a modern rotary-winged machine, and the differences are caused by the differing opinions of designers of different firms. Nevertheless, all new helicopters - first of all, this concerns the Ka-52 and Mi-28Н - have more similarities than differences. So, they are able to carry unguided and guided weapons, as well as carry out attacks from a distance of up to ten kilometers (ATGM “Attack” and “Sturm”). Another feature of these helicopters is the presence of an integrated radar station. If the issue with the crosspiece radar module "Crossbow" is decided in favor of its installation, then another point will be added to the similarity of the Mi-28Н and Ka-52.

As a matter of fact, Ka-52 and Mi-28Н, being modern helicopters, also claim to be the combat vehicles of the near future. Judging by the current development trends of attack helicopters, with timely upgrades they are quite capable of becoming such. But the Mi-35M already causes some doubts. First of all, it affects the great age of the original Mi-24, as well as the poorly proven idea of ​​a flying BMP. In order to remove the cargo and passenger cabin with the Mi-35M, which often becomes the subject of criticism, it is necessary to redo the whole machine, which clearly does not fit into the idea of ​​modernizing the old technology. Therefore, the Mi-35М project now looks like an attempt to provide the armed forces with modern technology, without spending much time on its creation and launch of production. Accordingly, Mi-35М are unlikely to be purchased in large series and will serve as a kind of temporary measure in anticipation of a large number of new Mi-28Н and Ka-52.

To justify the Mi-35M, it is worth saying that this helicopter is not so bad as it seems at first glance. The lack of radar and the presence of an “extra” cockpit does not allow it to compete on equal terms with other modern domestic and foreign attack helicopters, however, and in this configuration, the Mi-35М has more potential than the existing Mi-24 fleet of various modifications. In other words, the Mi-35M is currently rather a “transitional link” between the old and the new technology, than a full-fledged combat tool, being done, as they say, for centuries. This can explain the technical differences of this helicopter from other new machines, and relatively small plans for the purchase.

In the coming years, the domestic Air Force will receive about fifty Mi-35M helicopters. At the same time, so many Mi-28H helicopters are already serving in the air force, and the total number of ordered Ka-52s is approaching a hundred and fifty. Perhaps the views of the military on the required number of helicopters of a particular type perfectly illustrate the prospects of combat vehicles and their compliance with the requirements. It is quite obvious that the Defense Ministry, when planning the future of military aviation, attaches the highest priority to the new Ka-52 and Mi-28Н, and not to the modernization of the “old man” Mi-24. It is these helicopters that will have to become the main strike force of front-line aviation by the beginning of the twenties and remain in the ranks for the next years. So, the lingering work on the Arbalet radar for the Ka-52 or some problems with the development of technologies and weapons for the new equipment costs the time spent: new helicopters are being made for the future and it is better to lose a little time now than not to have good modern equipment.


On the materials of the sites:
http://airwar.ru/
http://militaryrussia.ru/
http://arms-expo.ru/
http://kamov.ru/
http://mi-helicopter.ru/
http://klimov.ru/
http://phazotron.com/
http://twower.livejournal.com/
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  1. ZAVET
    -34
    6 December 2012 08: 19
    Our attack helicopters are the largest, heaviest and attack helicopters in the world !!! And mi 28 turned out harder than mi 24, well done!
    Hurrah!
    Another thing is the American malyavki - just 5 tons (three tons less, with the same combat load). The cobra has a cab width of a pathetic meter in frontal projection. A shame.
    1. +12
      6 December 2012 08: 27
      After listing the advantages of American helicopters, you managed to attribute them to disadvantages - you have to try it !!! If you have such sarcasm, then the quotes would at least put.
      1. ZAVET
        -21
        6 December 2012 08: 31
        Considering what?
        1. +13
          6 December 2012 08: 36
          And what about grammar, syntax? It's like in the famous film "This is the great and mighty Russian language, it contains words that make up sentences. Our Masha is crying loudly. Our Masha is crying - loudly!"
          1. ZAVET
            -17
            6 December 2012 09: 46
            These are all conventions. Framework. Or are you used to being pointed out with your finger where it is "good" and where is "bad"?

            When did mi -28 and ka 50 \ 52 actually appear?
            Correctly! During the years of the Afghan war.
            Why?
            Because the Mi-24 is an unsuccessful helicopter. It was required in a fire order to create not something new but something more acceptable than a crocodile from what is.
            That is, the mi-28 and ka 52 is a remake of an attack helicopter of what was originally not intended for this purpose.
            As a result, a large mass, large dimensions, poor engine power / helicopter mass ratio.
            The myth - "our helicopters are universal, American against armored vehicles", is intended to justify the obvious shortcomings of the Mi-28 and Ka 52.
            Helicopter - a platform for weapons. But the combat load of amers and Russian helicopters is the same. And what kind of weapons to put is decided by the situation.

            Mi-28, ka 50 \ 52 - development of almost 30 years ago. which are equipped with modern equipment.
            Obviously, it is necessary to develop a modern light combat platform to perform the functions of an attack helicopter.
            Mi -28 and ka 50 \ 52 - a temporary compromise.
            1. +17
              6 December 2012 11: 25
              The same payload doesn’t mean anything yet. It’s not known at all about the degree of reservation of the same AH-64. They just seem to have a different concept, a well-armed, maneuverable, but slightly armored helicopter.
              And it is not yet known which is more advantageous. Air defense systems are being improved and there may not be much sense with a large combat load. You will bring it to the battlefield, but will not have time to use it.
              And so I agree, with the Papuans, the AH-64 can even be more optimal. You will bring a lot, with a small helicopter, and drop it on top of them. Just why do you need the AH-64? Papuans have few tanks, and if there are any, then AGM-114 is optional.
              I’m all this to the fact that our and their helicopters were created to fight different opponents. Ours are focused on the fight against a well-defended and armed enemy, and on them to counter the Third World Armies.
            2. to water
              +7
              6 December 2012 12: 16
              MI-24 is the most successful helicopter in its class, this is a machine with heavy offensive weapons designed to transfer troops, evacuate the wounded, transport MTOs and ammunition, as well as to suppress enemy firing points and fortified areas in remote places. On the AH-64, you will not complete all these tasks. But to compare the AN-64 with the MI-28N and KA-52, to put it mildly, is not correct until all of these helicopters were in their combat missions with strong opposition to modern air defense.
              1. +3
                6 December 2012 13: 57
                I recommend you read the article pr MI-24. http://topwar.ru/21468-vertushki-afganistan-mi-24.html. It was used to transfer troops and cargo. extremely seldom.
                Generally VERY good article
                1. 0
                  8 December 2012 17: 09
                  I wonder how for example the crew of the downed mi-8 would have reacted if the Apache were paired with them? Probably they would have clung to the chassis)))
              2. ZAVET
                -5
                6 December 2012 14: 05
                Yours, gentlemen, the answers are a set of flimsy letters.
                In itself, the existence of mi 28 and ka 50 \ 52 became possible due to the insufficient suitability of mi 24 to perform the tasks of an attack helicopter.
                Moreover, the development of mi 28 and ka 50 \ 52, began almost immediately after the start of production \ application of mi 24. That is, the flaws of mi 24 became immediately apparent to the military. If we were a 24 normal attack helicopter, its replacement already in the 80s would not be required.
                Why Mi-24 was not used for transporting assault forces, ammunition, etc. I won’t repeat myself - Turntables, Afghanistan. MI-24 "Military Review. Read.
                Cobra and Apache have a great military history. Therefore, there is something to compare.
                1. Zynaps
                  +34
                  6 December 2012 18: 16
                  Quote: ZAVET
                  Yours, gentlemen, the answers are a set of flimsy letters.


                  look who's Talking...

                  Quote: ZAVET
                  In itself, the existence of mi 28 and ka 50 \ 52 became possible due to the insufficient suitability of mi 24 to perform the tasks of an attack helicopter.


                  oh, really? and then why did they want to replace the "cobra", which has recommended so well in Vietnam, with "Cheyenne"? is it really just because it was
                  good weather helicopter?

                  when the Mi-24 faced known problems in Afghanistan, it was quickly filed to the state of the Mi-24V, which became the main air draft of that war. moreover, he acquired not weak fame for himself that various countries immediately wanted to buy it. because in combat use, the "unsuccessful" helicopter caused an avalanche in the trousers of an adversary, and from its brutal appearance and combat approaches, those who wanted to shoot suddenly had a desire to pretend to be rags and not shine. rarely did any weapon destroy the desire for war by its very appearance.

                  so let the office continue to write.

                  Quote: ZAVET
                  Why Mi-24 was not used for transporting assault forces, ammunition, etc.


                  because it was more profitable to use it as a combat rather than a transport and combat helicopter. Mi-8 shipments were perfectly handled. and in the Mi-24V they preferred to take an equivalent number of bombs and missiles by weight instead of a dozen carcasses. this is how the division of labor occurred.

                  Quote: ZAVET
                  If we were a 24 normal attack helicopter, its replacement already in the 80s would not be required.


                  so only idiots can rest on their laurels forever. and those who don’t want to remove polymers are simply obligated to spin. in WWII, how many legendary weapons were spawned, and all one came to him time to go to a museum or for re-melting.

                  Quote: ZAVET
                  Cobra and Apache have a great military history. Therefore, there is something to compare.


                  with nothing. the epic reliability of the Mi-24 in the hands of all sorts of Papuans and its resistance to DShK are unmatched. and let them also find a helicopter in the world that shot down other helicopters, and also landed the "phantom" pepelats with an "Attack" and "tomcat" missile with a NURS salvo, even if they were heading on a collision course. it is not in kindergarten to be measured with pipis.
                  1. rolik
                    +5
                    6 December 2012 21: 59
                    Zynaps Verb correctly. Give a discount to those who are not looking for Wikipedia further. And then, to prove and show them the real state of affairs still does not work out.
                    1. +2
                      7 December 2012 22: 56
                      Quote: rolik
                      Give a discount to those who are not looking for Wikipedia anymore ....

                      :) it does seem like they don’t even look into Vika, they verb from the bulldozer.
                      And if you look at Vika, the question arises:
                      how the most belligerent helicopter in the world, and purchased for arms by a bunch of countries, suddenly became unsuccessful
                      by helicopter?

                      This is the territory where he stands in service.
                  2. +1
                    6 December 2012 22: 18
                    Quote: Zynaps
                    when the Mi-24 encountered certain problems in Afghanistan, it was quickly processed with a file to the state of Mi-24V

                    Damn, as in the joke about the plane for the Japanese .. Japanese assembled a locomotive. our arrived over night it turned out MIG.Japanese are in shock; they say our instructions must be read: after assembly, process with a FILE. But seriously do not grind rubbish. (At the expense of the file) Mi24v product 242. in Afghanistan, he really ran into difficulties, so he made a lot of improvements.
                    1. Zynaps
                      +4
                      7 December 2012 01: 35
                      Quote: igor67
                      But seriously do not grind nonsense. (At the expense of the file)


                      and you do not be serious spider-not broadcast from the rostrum. To do this, open the textbook and look for what hyperbolas, epithets and other allegories are. because without them even very correct speech is natural UH and nonsense.
                2. 0
                  8 December 2012 17: 11
                  We always look to the west - there is "Apache" and we need the same one !!!! that's the whole secret of the appearance of MI-28 and ka-50.
              3. Beltar
                -5
                30 December 2012 03: 57
                Mi-24 is a feil. Objective Fail. He has one plus, he is simply huge and this allowed us to have decent weapons and even a useless compartment. Even the Mi-28, which does not cause sympathy for me, and that one surpasses it by an order of magnitude just because it is much easier.
                The most successful Ka-50 helicopter, but the very concept of using turntables was flashed.
            3. Anthrax
              +3
              7 December 2012 11: 57
              Quote: ZAVET

              Mi-28, ka 50 \ 52 - development of almost 30 years ago. which are equipped with modern equipment.

              And Apache development in general 70s.
              The receipt of new Apaches ceased in 1994 in the American army.
              That is, the newest is already 18 years old!
              And only this year they began to make up for the Apache’s losses from wars and accidents. Until 2026 they plan to
              put into operation as many as 56 new Apaches. And they will be left at their service until at least 2040.
              50 summer helicopters will fly
            4. beech
              0
              7 December 2012 16: 15
              where did you get that they were designed to be replaced because of the unsuitability of mi24 ???
              I think the multiplicity of mi24 and mi8 around the world will prove to you that the turntables are really good, they are like a Kalashnikov assault rifle, yes, they are not the most, but general combat characteristics + unpretentiousness + simplicity = recognition around the world!
              And about mi-28 and ka-50 \ 52. if there was no competition and the desire to improve so that it would not be, then we would still be single-celled !!!
            5. MG42
              +2
              7 December 2012 16: 53
              Quote: ZAVET
              Because the Mi-24 is an unsuccessful helicopter. It was required in a fire order to create not something new but something more acceptable than a crocodile from what is

              Mi 24 is a flying tank of Russia, even American pilots speak well of it, I can post videos too!
              1. Dikremnij
                0
                7 December 2012 19: 52
                Rather, a flying BMP.
                1. MG42
                  0
                  7 December 2012 23: 30
                  Quote: Dikremnij
                  Rather, a flying BMP.

                  namely the tank http://vkpb.net.ua/2012_html/mi-24.html
                  On the account of the Mi-24 - brilliant victories over the American “Super Cobras” in the sky of Iran, the South African “Pumas” in the sky of Angola ... In April 1999, when NATO, destroying Yugoslavia and widely covering the results of the barbaric bombing, was silent that Serbian Mi-24V shot down the American AN-64D "Longbow Apache", and the "NATO" gave itself out by the radiation of its own radar.
                  Another incident that went unnoticed - in July 2002, the North Korean Mi-35VPM shot down the 64 South Korean AN-1983A, which had less sophisticated equipment and weapons. However, news reports from the DPRK did not become known to the whole world, which would threaten the American company McDonell-Douglas undermining prestige and terminating contracts on the part of buyers.
                  Mi-24 victories over fighters and attack aircraft are no less interesting. On June 8, 1982, the Syrian ace pilot, having destroyed five Israeli tanks, shot down an Israeli F-4 Phantom fighter over Lebanon. October 27, 1982 the helicopter won another interesting victory - over the village of Ein Khosh, the Iranian Mi-24 was shot down by the Iranian phantom Phantom, but maneuverability did not save the “Iranian” from death. In the spring of 1993, the Iraqi Mi-24, destroying the positions of Kurdish separatists in northern Iraq, was shot down by an American A-10 attack aircraft, and the Iraqi missile didn’t just hit the plane — it just exploded inside its left engine ...

            6. +3
              7 December 2012 19: 52
              "Apache" - The first flight was made in September 1975. Oh, how old! )))
              Maximum take-off weight, kg - 10432 (AH-64D Longbow)
              Engines 2 × 1 890
              Rate of climb: 12,27
              -------------------------------
              Mi-28
              First flight: November 10, 1982
              maximum take-off weight: 12100 kg
              2 × 2200 engines
              Rate of climb: m / s 13,6
              ---------------------------------------
              What can you object? Where is the overwhelming advantage of Apache?
              It's even funny to talk about Cobra.
            7. 0
              7 December 2012 20: 43
              Temporary. Already 30 years old.
            8. 0
              7 December 2012 20: 49
              Temporary compromise. Already 30 years temporary.
            9. Don
              0
              12 December 2012 12: 05
              Quote: ZAVET
              When did mi -28 and ka 50 \ 52 actually appear?
              Correctly! During the years of the Afghan war.

              Not properly. The Ka-52 made its first flight in 1997, and the Mi-28N made its first flight in 1996. So what are 30 years old? Apache made the first pallet in 1975. So do not tell tales. The maximum take-off weight of Apache and Ka-52 is almost the same, the maximum allowable speed is also. Read TTX, and not tell tales. And Eurocopter generally relaxes.
              1. vitya29111973
                0
                6 March 2013 09: 28
                TTX mi 28 like his image, I first saw in the magazine "technology of youth" so as not to lie somewhere in 86 - 89 years. So if he was printed in such magazines, then I think he is at least 30 years old !!!!
            10. 0
              10 February 2024 21: 29
              Why is the Mi-24 unsuccessful? On the contrary, people who actually use them now, naturally in the latest modifications (VM, aka Mi-35) say that nothing better has been invented.
              Moreover, new modifications are being developed (Phoenix, but it did not go into production due to the outbreak of hostilities), and they continue to be built. If it had been unsuccessful, they would have stopped building and developing it, and the capacity would have been transferred to the production of the Mi-8/28.
              What are your arguments? Maybe memoirs of pilots from Afghanistan/Chechnya or reviews of those who are using it now?
              There is a TG channel, “My Friend the Helicopter,” which is hosted by pilots participating in it, and they wrote there several times that nothing better than the Mi-24 (in its current modification) has been invented. What are your arguments?
          2. vyatom
            +1
            6 December 2012 10: 54
            And where are the Mi-24 Delhi. in my opinion a beautiful helicopter.
            1. Zynaps
              +3
              6 December 2012 18: 17
              modifies the resource. Mi-35M is the direct heir to the glorious brutal old man.
            2. black_eagle
              0
              6 December 2012 18: 40
              Is the Mi-24VM not the Mi-24?
              1. Zynaps
                0
                6 December 2012 19: 49
                yes I completely forgot that this is one and the same thing, only 24VM for domestic consumption, and the 35th for export.
            3. 0
              10 February 2024 21: 30
              Nowhere, Mi-24VM is the Mi-35.
      2. 0
        7 December 2012 20: 41
        Excuse me, but, in my opinion, you simply did not understand the humor.
      3. 0
        7 December 2012 20: 49
        Sorry, pzhalst, in my opinion you just did not understand the humor
    2. +1
      6 December 2012 08: 55
      American combat helicopters have a strict specialization - the destruction of armored vehicles, respectively, the emphasis is only on homing weapons.
      Our turntables are specialists of a wide profile with a huge range of weapons and different tasks .. By the way, the site recently had an article comparing them and our turntables ...
      1. +2
        6 December 2012 11: 19
        universality is not always created by reducing specialized characteristics however ... this is on the issue of changing weapons on suspensions ..
      2. +1
        7 December 2012 20: 51
        Is a wide specialist a specialist in anything?
    3. +14
      6 December 2012 09: 10
      good article excellent I would say But there are thoughts

      1) one of the mistakes is the destruction of the production line ka-50 for the sake of mi-28n - a unique helicopter has been lost forever - but you just had to change the breo and make it all-weather
      2) Mi-28n requires improvements both on the Breo and on the radar, which is not yet available, but the very fact that the helicopter in the series is still happy, we are waiting for the UB version that was promised at the beginning of 2013
      3) the revival from the ashes of the seaside Progress and still the start of production of the ka-52 but we also need to bring everything to mind
      the ship version of what it will be and what's with the marine radar is also interesting to there
      4) the problem, as I see it, is the storage of our new helicopters — hangars or large canopies are being built all over the world — we have them standing under the open sky and in rain and mud that's what worries, I would also like more D-class simulators, and improved missiles Hermes project is suspended that cannot but disturb

      the result, of course, compared to the 90s, the technique went, but still in many ways, especially to improve the launch range of missiles and airborne systems, it’s necessary to catch up with the standard and competitor I see American Apache block3

      photo max-2011 mi-28n still in the old color
      1. VAF
        VAF
        +4
        6 December 2012 12: 13
        Quote: Rustam
        good article excellent I would say But there are thoughts


        Rustam, +! everywhere and I’m not climbing ... this is your field! drinks
      2. 0
        6 December 2012 13: 42
        Quote: Rustam
        in many ways, especially to improve missile launch range

        No progress on Hermes-A?
    4. +7
      6 December 2012 09: 12
      And what is the plus point? For air defense, it makes no difference, they shoot down UAVs. Some kind of strange irony.
      The cobra is ancient, like the shit of a mammoth and seems to be still with one dragging, Apache is wide due to the compartments with brains.
      Our 28th and 52nd today have exactly one serious shortcoming - THEY ARE DAMNING !!!
      1. +4
        6 December 2012 09: 25
        in defense of Cobra, it’s ancient still fought in Vietnam
        but the latest version, which has been going on since 2010, goes off with a bang in the United States Marine Corps and has manifested itself in Iraq and Afghanistan, sweeping away everything in its path


        wink By the way, the Airborne Forces and Shamans dream of their helicopter aircraft and want to have a Ka-50 and Ka-52 do not give a bastard am

        A good video of using American cobras - after all, there is something beautiful in it (but this is in my opinion) wink
        1. 0
          6 December 2012 13: 44
          Quote: Rustam
          Airborne and Shamans dream of their helicopter aircraft and want to have a ka-50 and ka-52

          Does the Ka-50 have any advantages over the Ka-52?
          1. rolik
            +1
            6 December 2012 22: 02
            Flooding The main difference is that in KA 50 there is one uncle pilot, in KA 52 there are already two of them and they are sitting side by side.
            1. 0
              7 December 2012 10: 08
              Quote: rolik
              The main difference is that in KA 50 there is one uncle pilot, in KA 52 there are already two of them and they are sitting side by side.

              The question is not about the differences, but about the benefits. There is a difference?
          2. 0
            10 February 2024 21: 38
            The advantage is purely theoretical, it is that the crew is smaller, which means that with the same number of pilots graduating from universities, it is possible to have more squadrons.
            There are no more advantages.
            But again, the coin has 2 sides. As practice shows, the helicopter is quite durable, and if it is shot down, 2 pilots, assisting each other, quite often survive, even if injured. If one pilot is seriously injured, it will be seriously more difficult to heal.
      2. +2
        6 December 2012 09: 46
        Cobra as old as mammoth shit
        __________
        Do not offend the little girl winked
        I like her and that's it (at least kill)
        By the way, I was talking with people, this would not hurt us (but this is impossible sad )

        pictured is the newest version of Bell AH-1Z Viper
      3. yustas
        +2
        6 December 2012 13: 04
        Quote: Mikhado
        Our 28th and 52nd today have exactly one serious shortcoming - THEY ARE DAMNING !!!
        +
        Quote: Rustam
        this would not hurt us
        Rustam would agree would not hurt, but why not? we have some achievements.
        But cars obviously need different ones in the Kamovtsy mountains will be better than bears, but in the open there is 50/50. It’s a pity the shark = (KA-50 would still be a promising helicopter.
    5. +6
      6 December 2012 09: 57
      people yes well you immediately minus sad The man under the nickname ZAVET expressed his thoughts, you write him down as an enemy of the people
      VV said that we are not 37 years old smile

      you explain to him correctly without fanaticism that he is wrong wink
      need for world peace and friendship (like cat Leopold)
      1. fern
        +2
        6 December 2012 14: 30
        One acquaintance once said that a cobra is like a flying member laughing
        1. Leonid
          +2
          6 December 2012 22: 08
          It all depends on sexual orientation - some see in the sausage MEMBER! Sorry, that is off topic.
      2. Zynaps
        0
        6 December 2012 18: 26
        so if you sort it out, posyent stupidly drives. If the Mi-24V was finished to mind, if there was any drawback, it was the absence of an airborne radar.

        even look for a helicopter that managed to land not only other helicopters, but also airplanes. and also dive into the Atlantic, and then calmly continue the flight (see the case of the UN Mi-24 under the name Calypso). Well, 20 years ago, a unique flight to Mi-24V Moscow - Miami via Chukotka and Alaska.
      3. +1
        7 December 2012 19: 57
        I for him already in two places TTX brought for comparison))
        He is even too lazy to look into Wikipedia before posting.
    6. Cosmonaut
      +4
      6 December 2012 15: 07
      Umm ... I read an article by an American who flew the Mi-24, he was pleased with it.
      1. rolik
        +2
        6 December 2012 22: 06
        Cosmonaut And mattress toppers have our MI24 9 in quantity, in my opinion, 2-3 pieces). They teach their zoldatik how to react to the "crocodile". when he emerges from behind the trees at low level and goes on the attack. They have clean 24s, not upgraded. And even they admit that the 24th is the most serious machine, and it is not very desirable to meet with it in a real battle.
        1. not good
          +1
          7 December 2012 15: 52
          Precisely, there was a film on TV, there was an interview with the pilot, he is very proud that he flies on the MI-24 more than Russians, and only speaks well of the car. And the KA-50 is really a pity, they could have armed the squadron to gain experience, By the way, in " rook "is also one pilot and no one requires a second to be crammed there.
          1. Simon bolivar
            0
            7 December 2012 17: 41
            ZAVET, I certainly understand that you tried very hard to write your posts burdened with semantic meaning faster, and the orderlies do not doze off, I can unexpectedly enter the room.
            Here is the custody of the mass of helicopters
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kPAVv837seA
    7. 0
      7 December 2012 18: 58
      Tolley case American tanks or BMP huh? Heavy and clumsy.
    8. don.kryyuger
      0
      11 December 2012 10: 18
      Cobra and Shark have different goals and objectives.
    9. 0
      19 December 2012 10: 45
      Very nice article, detailed.
  2. +2
    6 December 2012 08: 24
    The picture is very reminiscent of a situation when the USSR Armed Forces had three MBT T-64B, T-72 and T-80 at once. I believe that it is necessary to decide which attack helicopter should be in service with the armed forces.
    1. Lacoste
      +3
      6 December 2012 08: 33
      As far as I know, the Mi-28N will be the main one, the Ka-52 will be something like a commander’s, in smaller quantities.
      1. 0
        6 December 2012 08: 39
        The maintenance of various models in one unit is thus significantly complicated - this is to have more in terms of nomenclature and number of spare parts and BIDs, and to have qualified technicians as well as pilots. No, it's too complicated.
      2. +1
        6 December 2012 09: 07
        30 years of argument. Aligners are very good in the mountains - vertical and axial maneuvers, a dynamic ceiling is what the doctor prescribed in the conditions of gorges and discharged air. Kashka is now double, and according to a more advanced scheme.
        They did not mention the features of the onboard artillery - with such a powerful cannon, the presence of a mobile mount on the mi-28 is not a very big bonus, the recoil greatly knocks the sight, the installation is far from the CG. The Apache cannon is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker, the short barrel is almost a ballistic grenade launcher.
      3. 0
        6 December 2012 13: 11
        while the Ka-52 is ordered more than Mi28 in my opinion
      4. not good
        0
        7 December 2012 15: 56
        According to tradition, the fleet is oriented toward spacecraft.
    2. 0
      10 February 2024 21: 55
      So the amers also have a lot of turntables, cobras, venoms, vipers, apaches, and all sorts of small-scale, highly specialized machines.
      And if we take NATO as a whole, then there are literally countless turntables there.
      So this is bullshit.
      Moreover, 24 and 28, although 28, of course, has already moved away a little, but all the same - they are made and unified with the Mi-8, and in terms of avionics, engines, and weapons, they are largely unified (and now they are pressing for unification in terms of weapons). A large number of turntables is not such a problem...
      Moreover, it is not surprising that if you refuse something, then it is 28.
      Because the Ka-52 cannot fully replace 24/35.
      But the very large unification between the Mi-35 and Mi-28 makes it possible to produce and operate both.
      The engine is actually a modification of the same thing, the propellers, swashplate mechanisms, avionics are unified.
      About tanks, this is generally funny, given the volume of tank production in the USSR, taking into account that the tanks are in any case largely unified, and each modification was produced in volumes greater than any other country in the world produces tanks (maybe there were more than 64 Abrams, and then it’s not a fact if we take it for 91 years). In this regard, NATO’s unification is worse, especially considering that all these Challengers, Lepards, and Leclercs were made in only 500 units (for themselves).
  3. +2
    6 December 2012 08: 41
    Wow power and what a horror !!! Impressive.
    Especially MI-35, probably seeing this, at the last moment of his life, is very, very scary.
    On the other hand, there was no hell to climb anywhere.
    1. fern
      +2
      6 December 2012 14: 38
      Yes. Mi-35 and Mi-24 are generally fearful. I remember being a teenager, they played football in the countryside. But at that time there was a war in Chechnya. Helicopters flew back and forth. Through Vladikavkaz. Moreover, at extremely low altitudes. That's when I saw him for the first time. Right above your head. Another sound like blades cutting air. Scared unreal laughing .
  4. +6
    6 December 2012 08: 52
    Good article - informative!

    But are the plans for deliveries to the Armed Forces really fulfilled? On paper, everything is always smooth. And what about the training of personnel for maintenance and management? Who will fly on them? Otherwise, Serdyukov "reformed" everything.
  5. Brother Sarych
    +4
    6 December 2012 09: 06
    It is written well, it is easy to read, but ...
    So according to the article - oil painting, but in fact? It would be nice if one of the professionals made it out ...
  6. +2
    6 December 2012 09: 31
    Hello everyone! Article +, if only purchases were carried out according to the plan, and there was no conversation left ...
  7. 0
    6 December 2012 10: 12
    I saw the work of the "Black Shark" at the Center for Combat Use and Retraining of Army Aviation Flight Personnel in Torzhok, impressive!
  8. +1
    6 December 2012 10: 50
    K-52 has its advantages, even reasoning logically, it has no energy loss on the side screw, I’m certainly not special, but it seems to me that a single-seat car has the right to be, the main thing is to do more and people fly more often
  9. cyberandr
    0
    6 December 2012 11: 13
    It’s interesting that the Mi-8 can also be used as a shock. There is also a modification of the Mi8AMTS. It turns out not 3, but 4 types of drummers in aviation.
    1. +3
      6 December 2012 11: 26
      He is not a shock. With the same success, it is possible to suspend NURS units on any aircraft and call it shock.
  10. vladsolo56
    +11
    6 December 2012 11: 44
    The KA-50 was a super helicopter and it was in vain slaughtered, it was developed 10 years earlier than the MI-28, and if it had been put into service at one time, it would have shown itself. Production of MI-28 is just a lobby in the defense industry. In no way is it better than the Ka-50 and especially the Ka-52. It is not in vain that in order to smooth out the competition these two design bureaus were combined into one. But it will be useful. Rather, in such an association, Kamov traditions and developments will be completely ruined.
    By the way, Apache compared to the KA-50 bike.
    1. dixicon
      0
      6 December 2012 13: 54
      So like the Mi-28 is much cheaper than the Ka-52. That's why they take
  11. 0
    6 December 2012 13: 50
    Information about the second module of the FH01 "Crossbow" radar from the site of the developer "Fazotron-NIIR"
    Radar complex "Arbalet-L"
    Purpose: The "Arbalet-L" radar is designed to provide round-the-clock, all-weather use of combat helicopters.
    The main functions:
    Detection of attacking helicopters aircraft, helicopters, missiles and shells
    Recognizing the type of attacking helicopter targets
    Determining the threat level of detected air targets
    Providing all-round group and individual defense

    That is, today the capabilities of the Ka-52 in countering air threats are seriously cut back?
    Or generally reduced to zero?

    In fact, no all-round visibility in the decimeter L-band on vehicles entering the troops, alas, is not yet available.
  12. +1
    6 December 2012 13: 54
    Quote: Bulls.
    Especially MI-35, probably seeing this, at the last moment of my life, is very, very scary

    I read that the amers brought themselves to such a training of their marines, they say that even a training attack makes the fighters flee, not the first time they can withstand it. wink
  13. USNik
    +1
    6 December 2012 14: 19
    Good review. But I would like at least some information from parts that are already flying on new turntables. Which helicopter (we don’t take mi35) is more reliable? Which of them is easier to operate? What do pilots, navigators, technicians say about cars? It seems that there were complaints from technicians and service staff about the confusion of ka52, overload of mi28 ...
  14. 0
    6 December 2012 14: 52
    the beauty!!!!! Yes
  15. 0
    6 December 2012 15: 52
    One another is more beautiful. And by the way, who will enlighten, what are the weaknesses of the coaxial screw circuit?
    1. 0
      6 December 2012 17: 39
      the blades may overlap and, accordingly, collapse, this has already happened on the KA-50, the pilot died, on the KA-52, this has not happened so far.
      1. 0
        7 December 2012 09: 28
        Thanks for the info. Now I will at least know.
      2. +1
        7 December 2012 23: 25
        In my opinion, it would be nice to look at such an arrangement of screws (K-max):
        the same advantages as the coaxial scheme, but simpler and lower in height,
        1. Ged
          Ged
          0
          14 January 2013 03: 49
          Overlapping is much easier.
        2. Ged
          Ged
          0
          14 January 2013 03: 51
          It is much easier to "overwhelm".
  16. zmey
    0
    6 December 2012 16: 08
    Good article. new technology is more and better so that amers tried to "surpass" us and "did not spit"!

    A joke from the history of technology
    amers made "AN-1 Cobra" and "CH-1 Huey" our looking made Mi-24 and M-8 with an eye on the amers, after 15-20 years amers looking and evaluating our helicopters tried to do better - "Apache" and " CH-60 Black Hawk "(they still compare all their equipment with Soviet ones and try to surpass our developments 30 years ago in at least one or two performance characteristics), having looked at amers (at the design stage, they began to design new devices at that time), but we upgraded the Mi-8 and Mi-35! and made two new platforms to which amers still "fly and fly" like crawling to China !?
    1. 0
      6 December 2012 18: 59
      Well, well, flashed their little gyrus.
      Well, it’s necessary to pick up such nonsense, I don’t really want to answer point by point, otherwise your tales are more like trolling.
    2. Leonid
      0
      6 December 2012 22: 12
      Probably you ate something wrong!
  17. airatt
    0
    6 December 2012 17: 39
    sorry ka50 he is the best and mi28n he lost in the 80s! and he has better performance than the others and one pilot. easier to prepare one and cheaper than two and will not distract him!
    1. 0
      6 December 2012 17: 58
      The Mi-24 is better than the first Apaches, and now no one will argue that the Crocodile will lose to the last Longbow Apache. Why remember the 80s? The overload for the pilot (I'm talking about the Ka-50) was still high. I think it is difficult to control the vehicle and the fire control system, as well as to control the situation around one person.
  18. Grits
    +7
    6 December 2012 18: 10
    Recently I was in the shops of "Progress" in Arseniev. Impressed. The Alligator assembly line is in full swing. In addition, they have a serious order on the way - Ka-52K for Mistrals. In Primorye, the air regiment in Chernigovka was the first to replenish the Ka-52. They fly beautifully, bastards ...
    1. 0
      6 December 2012 19: 01
      Explain briefly why the Ka-50 is better than the Mi-28?
  19. Cold
    +1
    6 December 2012 18: 22
    Article plus comments minus our helicopters are much better than Amersky same Apache block 3 changed the stuffing. Those helicopters that enter the troops without a similar filling are played, but this will not create a similar or better one. In terms of security parameters, resilience plays a big role in fulfilling tasks. Helicopters are a low-flying target for those who do not know the advantages of the coaxial scheme. Our pluses are more of a fact. Close middle battle need helicopters covering the columns, etc. .. soldier
    1. +3
      6 December 2012 19: 53
      1) Our helicopters are far from filling and block 2 is well. Well, except for the Ka-52. And in block 3 they set a new bar. When ours is reached, they will already have 4 blocks flying all over.
      2) Their Hellfire-2 ATGMs are much better than what we now have in service. Active GOS, there is no need to illuminate the target, the ability to shoot at the target out of line of sight (using the over-gun radar, which we do not yet have on our aircraft, or external target designation from another vert, or even a UAV, which can be controlled from the Apache itself), defeat in the upper projection. This is in brief.
      3) In terms of security. They have a different concept, according to which their helicopter shoots the enemy’s equipment from a safe distance. And just the latest thermal imagers, guidance systems and other stuffing, according to which they are ahead of us, help them with this.
      Quote: Cold
      The meaning of attack helicopters is not clear to me in the United States for the delivery of homing missiles of long range is ridiculous

      I did not understand this at all, they have the same tasks as ours, but they simply perform them differently.
      1. Cold
        0
        6 December 2012 22: 23
        Hmm, you don’t know along the way what an arms race is during the Cold War, who was catching up again overtook etc. What is the conclusion? "Our helicopters are far from stuffing and to block 2. Well, except for the Ka-52. And block 3 they are set a new bar. When ours reach it, they will already have blocks of 4 flying in full "I answer that our only need will and we will have the same all rests against the elite, etc. Our age of bureaucrats, thieves, etc. In About War, it showed that everything is possible in a short time. About thermal imagers, you are outright nonsense, tell me how one thermal imager differs from another only in that theirs sees more clearly further. There is nothing unique about them, and the United States is not a monopolist of this technology. Their army is better equipped with electronic warfare, satellite communications, etc. The war in South Ossetia has shown no one disputes. I wrote that our helicopters are better only as long as they have superior filling, without them they are inferior to our helicopters. At close medium distances, the survivability is less From afar to shoot armored vehicles out of line of sight why then it was necessary to create a helicopter write to me. Our tasks are the same, no one can argue but that their helicopter is better is not
        1. 0
          6 December 2012 22: 56
          Quote: Cold
          "The answer is that our only need will, and we will have the same, everything rests on the elite, etc. Our age of bureaucrats, thieves, etc. The War has shown that everything is possible in a short time


          What’s this all about?

          Quote: Cold
          .About the thermal imagers, you tell me frank nonsense than one thermal imager differs from the other only in that they see them more clearly further.


          Themselves answered the question, why then ask?

          Quote: Cold
          . I wrote that our helicopters are better only as long as they have superior filling without them they are inferior to our helicopters.


          This is the same as saying that our helicopters will be better if they remove the screws from their helicopters. They have better minced meat, and this is a fact, and we don’t have to come up with it if that, but if it is, we have what we have. You might think that avionics are such crap that you can travel for six months.

          Quote: Cold
          From afar to shoot armored vehicles out of line of sight


          This is just one of its features.


          Quote: Cold
          why then it was necessary to create a helicopter write me

          Maintain your infantry and equipment by destroying enemy infantry and equipment, not?
        2. vitya29111973
          0
          6 March 2013 11: 37
          duck is his and the main task is to see more clearly and further !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wassat
  20. airatt
    +3
    6 December 2012 19: 28
    From December 28, 2000 to February 14, 2001, two Ka-50 helicopters, together with a modified Ka-29 target designation helicopter, as part of a specially formed combat strike group (BUG), participated in hostilities in the territory of the Chechen Republic. The main goal of the BUG formation is the need to develop application algorithms and test the Ka-50 helicopters in battle. The flights took place in adverse weather conditions, in remote mountainous areas with difficult terrain and often in conditions of limited visibility with active enemy air defense. The Ka-50 helicopters completed 49 sorties, during which more than 100 firing using the NAR (929 missiles were spent), 69 cannon firing (about 1600 shells were spent), and three launches of the Vikhr ATGM were carried out. All targets were destroyed in a timely manner.

    Based on the results of the BUG actions, high reliability, efficiency and ease of maintenance of Ka-50 helicopters were announced. Pilots flying Ka-50 noted a significant advantage of the latter over traditional single-rotor helicopters when operating in mountain conditions. High thrust-to-weight ratio, maneuverability, rate of climb and peculiarities of the coaxial arrangement of propellers provided the Ka-50 with easier and safer piloting in the mountains, in conditions of limited visibility and side gusty wind. It was also noted that a powerful cabin reservation and the presence of a rescue system have a beneficial effect on the psyche of crews, which, combined with high automation of the flight, significantly reduces the psychological stress of the pilot, increasing the productivity of the latter. In 2005, the head of the Russian General Staff, Army General Yuri Baluyevsky, stated that the Ka-50 and Ka-52 helicopters were needed for special forces.
    Read more: http://www.arms-expo.ru/049049057050124052048050056.html
    1. rolik
      +2
      6 December 2012 22: 25
      In pursuit of fans of American technology.
      Apache is very similar to Mi-28N. But rather, on the contrary, since the Mi-28N was created on the basis of one of the most successful Soviet Mi-8 helicopters, and with an eye on American competitors. Both have a fixed gear and a tail support. Both carry a pair of engines located in gondolas on the sides of the fuselage. Both have a tandem crew - one slightly behind and taller than the other. The Ka-52, by the way, has two crew members sitting side by side, which is considered a drawback, reducing visibility and increasing the frontal projection of the machine. Compared to the Apache AN-64, the Mi-28N is heavier by almost 3 tons, but its engines are also more powerful, which even gives it a gain in maximum combat load and in flight characteristics. In addition, the view from the cockpit of the Mi-28N is better, but convex glasses are installed in the AN-64 Apache, which do not create glare that can interfere with work with devices. These helicopters are even externally easy to confuse. If we compare the cannon weapons, then here the advantage will be more likely for the Mi-28N, although it is not too significant. Both he and Apache are armed with 30 mm mobile automatic single-barrel guns. The M230 American gun weighing 54 kg provides a rate of fire of 625 rounds per minute, with an effective firing range of 3 km. It is believed that this gun is not very accurate and not powerful enough. The Mi-28N is equipped with a modified 2A42 tank gun, old and tested. It is noticeably heavier than the American and has a serious impact. However, helicopter designers coped with the latter problem, achieving accuracy even higher than that of an American competitor. But, having solved a number of difficulties, they got the most powerful helicopter gun in the world: the weight of the projectile and the initial speed are almost twice that of the M230, the firing range is 4 km, and the rate of fire is up to 900 rounds per minute. The shell fired from the Mi-28N flashes 15 mm armor from a 1,5-kilometer distance. In addition, the 2A42 gun is exceptionally reliable and practically does not overheat: unlike the Apache AN-64, the Mi-28N is capable of completely releasing all of its ammunition without interruptions in cooling. Finally, the shooter himself chooses the type of shell - armor-piercing or high-explosive fragmentation.
      There are differences in missiles. The main “tool” of both helicopters is anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs), each carrying 16 of them, suspended at external nodes. For the Mi-28N, they created the Ataka-V supersonic high-precision missile with radio command guidance, which we already mentioned. Such missiles work both in smokey conditions and in dust that scatters laser beams, interfering with “conventional” laser-guided missiles. And the new version of the Ataka-D rocket has a range of up to 10 km. The most important tool for the Apache AN-64 is the Hellfire AGM-114A laser-guided missiles and the AGM-114B radar-guided missiles. The helicopter can accept both types of missiles, and the crew gets the opportunity to choose the right option during the battle. Their range is 6-7 km, but, unlike Russian missiles, Hellfire is subsonic. Missiles spend 4 seconds on reaching a target of 15 km, while Russian missiles require 1,5 times less. But in general, all this is more reminiscent of the games from the series “Find Ten Differences”: all three cars have approximately the same characteristics and belong to the same generation. So it’s apparently impossible to make an unambiguous conclusion about “who is cooler”, skillful application and, of course, fate decide everything.
      1. rolik
        +2
        6 December 2012 22: 31
        The first thing to consider is the circuit diagram of the rotors. Mi-28N and AN-64 Apache are built on a classic basis, with one main and one tail rotor. In contrast, the Ka-52 is implemented on the basis of an extremely rare and complex technically coaxial scheme, with two screws that simultaneously perform the functions of both flight and taxiing. Such a scheme provides a gain in power by increasing the available flight ceiling by 100-200 m, which in mountainous conditions can be extremely useful. And the lack of a tail rotor has a good effect on the reliability of work among mountain slopes. In addition, the helicopter becomes more compact in length. But his profile increases in height, so that the gain is rather doubtful. Flight control is slightly improved, which makes it possible for the Ka-52 to make the famous “Funnel” figure - rotating around the aiming point, continuously pouring fire on it. However, all this is not so significant as to speak about the serious advantages of the pine scheme over the classical single-screw. The difference is much greater in another. The fact is that the main enemy of helicopters is armored vehicles, but any modern tank has air defense systems that are effective at distances of up to 6 km. A helicopter in this zone has only a few seconds to detect and recognize a target and shoot at it. During such a time, you can only shoot a cannon, a rocket needs more. The Americans solved this problem using bundles of 1 reconnaissance and target designation helicopter along with several strike machines. A light scout literally sneaks close to the enemy, it is much more difficult to detect and hit him than the An-64 Apache drums remaining outside the reach of an air defense tank. It transmits a signal - and only after that the Apaches strike. The direct predecessor of the Ka-52, the Black Shark Ka-50, was also designed for such a scheme of action. This made it easier and more maneuverable, getting rid of one crew member and focusing on the means of exchanging information between helicopters in the group. However, Soviet (and now also Russian) industry still cannot produce a light reconnaissance vehicle suitable for such purposes. The Ka-50 (and with them the descendants of the Ka-52) were quickly transferred to a different battlefield, using the Whirlwind missile system, capable of operating from a distance of 10 km. However, the “Whirlwind” at night, this effective distance is reduced to the same fateful 6 km, and the laser missile guidance system is not too reliable.
        Mi-28N was originally a simpler and cheaper option. The two-cabin scheme made it possible to place both the pilot and the operator-gunner, who takes care of all the shooting. And the Ataka complex installed on this helicopter, operating at distances of up to 6-8 km, using a more reliable radio command guidance method (the Americans also upgraded their AN-114 Apache for missiles with the radio command guidance system Hellfire AGM-64B). An important element of both Russian helicopters is the Arbalet airborne radar, which performs reconnaissance and target designation tasks, which in the American approach stand out as a separate helicopter (Bell OH-58D Kiowa). This seemingly insignificant detail makes the Ka-52 and Mi-28N a weapon of a completely new level - all-weather. The radar provides detection and recognition of targets, mapping the route, target designation of missiles, supports low-altitude flight. On the Mi-28N and Ka-52, the radar is mounted above the propeller hub - like the all-weather version of the AN-64 Apache, the notorious Longbow.
        But the American radar is unable to solve the tasks of aerobatics and navigation, and the "Crossbow" - can. Mi-28N is considered to be the only helicopter in the world capable of such a trick: even at night and in bad weather conditions, having switched to automatic mode, fly around the terrain at an altitude of 5 m at night, while conducting search, identification and destruction of targets, while simultaneously leading target designation for other participants in the battle.
        Somehow like this. And I’ll add in the next comment.
        1. rolik
          +4
          6 December 2012 22: 41
          This is a spoonful of honey for Apache fans. I’m not a villain, and I’m ready to state that, naturally, in some things we lag behind our striped "friends". Although the roots of this lag go back to the forties, when Uncle "Joe" declared cybernetics a pseudo-science. But it's still a shame, so much time has passed, but we cannot catch up with everything. Somewhere already at the level and even further, and somewhere behind. This is the element base that is put on our equipment. Still, the Americans have an advantage in electronics. According to some reports, among the 13 thousand electronic components that are installed on the Mi-28N, more than 70% were developed 15 and more years ago. The modern avionics of the Apache make it possible to work faster and more efficiently with targets, and even rank them in order of importance, which reduces the time that a helicopter needs to spend within the reach of enemy air defense systems. (Such "smart" missile control systems are also used in our country - for example, in the Granit anti-ship missiles). Electronics itself will distinguish a conventional vehicle from an anti-aircraft gun, and will choose the desired target itself.
          It's a shame, however, but there are no cars without flaws. As M.V. Lomonosov said:
          - If it arrived in one place, it will surely leave in another place.
          Therefore, I really hope that now, thanks to the blessing of those in power, things will go much faster.
          1. +2
            6 December 2012 22: 56
            rolik,
            I think that let Afghanistan down a lot. It was urgent to produce and not develop new cars. we stood on the rembase mi28 until the collapse of the USSR. and then, apparently, it was taken back to Rostov
      2. +3
        6 December 2012 22: 36
        Quote: rolik
        Apache

        MI-28 is called - “Russian Apache”. Not quite correct comparison. American PR. Fighting vehicles are very similar in many respects. In appearance, weapons and technical characteristics. MI-28 first flew into the sky on November 10, 1982, "Apache" - September 30, 1983.
        What is the same for them: Both helicopters are designed to combat armored vehicles and manpower. A crew of two people, a pilot and an operator of weapons. Both cars with an armored cab stand the line of a heavy machine gun. They are able to fly at extremely low altitude and, using shelter, to act from ambushes. Aiming and capture of the target is carried out by the helmet-mounted aiming system. (I saw it, I fixed it with a button, and even with any maneuvering, the electronics will not let go of the target) The high maneuverability of combat vehicles allows you to fight both in mountain conditions and in the city. ONLY In total, 53 units of Mi-28 and about 1800 Apaches are produced.
        1. rolik
          +3
          6 December 2012 23: 01
          Quote: igor67
          53 units of mi-28 and about 1800 apaches

          Alas, this is true. Little has been done, bye, turntables. For booking cockpits. The main element of the Mi-28N reservation is a metal “bathtub” made of 10 mm aluminum armor. Ceramic tiles with a thickness of 16 mm are installed on top of the aluminum structure. Between a layer of metal and ceramics, polyurethane sheets are laid. Such composite armor can withstand shelling from 20 mm cannons of NATO countries. The design of the doors to reduce weight is a “sandwich” of two aluminum plates and a polyurethane block. Glazing of the cabin is made of silicate blocks with a thickness of 22 mm (side windows) and 44 mm (frontal). The windshields of the cabs withstand the hit of a 12,7 mm bullet, and the side windows protect against rifle caliber weapons. Reservations also have some vital design components. The AH-64D helicopter’s armor protection is generally similar to the Mi-28N’s armor, with the difference that the American helicopter is lighter and smaller than the Russian one. As a result, the Apache Longbow cockpit protects pilots only from 12,7 mm caliber bullets. In case of more serious damage between the cabs there is an armored partition that protects against fragments of shells of caliber up to 23 mm. Accordingly, if our Mi gets out of his fluff, then the armored partition will turn into a colander.
          In addition, we also have the shooting of the blades and the bailout of pilots at altitudes of more than 100 meters, and the landing gear reinforced (the same landing gear is also available for Apaches, only the blades do not shoot back).
          igor67 MI-28 is called - “Russian Apache”. Not quite correct comparison.. It’s also true, this is +
          1. +3
            6 December 2012 23: 14
            rolik,
            on 24 ke the door was really heavy had to be removed .. from the bottom 24ka it was vulnerable. there were a lot of cars from Afghanistan with breaking through from the bottom. PPU (foam poly urethane sponge. like washcloths) began to be laid in the fuel tanks. Windshields are a special conversation heavy pancake with crowbar the glass itself cracked as a youth, and inside it was a viscous transparent substance. For 28 I don’t know, the car stood stupidly in the parking lot. And still, Apaches still use mainly armored vehicles and from far away. Therefore, they are strong and do not worry about booking
            1. rolik
              +2
              6 December 2012 23: 24
              The Apache was created as a "saboteur" helicopter flew up - jumped - fired - hid. Mil was created as a helicopter for direct fire support on the battlefield. An example of Yugoslavia. When skirmishes began between Serbs and Albanians, or between one of them and the peacekeepers. Peacekeepers (NATO members) called the Apaches. Those flew in only after the end of the firefight and then loomed in the distance. They were simply afraid to fly up, due to the fact that they could be hit from AK 47 and shot down. As soon as the peacekeepers did not call them names after that))))
        2. Windbreak
          0
          6 December 2012 23: 06
          Apache flew in 1979
          1. rolik
            +2
            6 December 2012 23: 16
            Quote: Burel
            Apache flew in 1979

            In the summer of 1981, military tests of the helicopter began. The combat crews were satisfied with the new aircraft, and on December 19 of the same year a decision was made to serial production of the helicopter under the designation AH-64A and the name Apache. The Mi-28 prototype took off for the first time on November 10, 1982. Based on the results of comparative tests conducted in 1984, the Ka-50 won the competition against the still "raw", unfinished Mi-28, which, however, does not mean that this machine has no future.
            Whoever stands on what looks similar, but these are two different cars.
        3. Anthrax
          0
          7 December 2012 12: 44
          Of the 1800 Apaches in the United States, 650 verts, the rest are scattered around the world.
          They have not joined the Amer army since 1994; the newest Apache in the Amer army is already 18 years old
          Small-scale production was resumed only at the end of 2011.
          Until 2026, 56 new Apaches will be made.
    2. 0
      7 December 2012 09: 41
      I watched this program, everything is as it is written above
  21. mazdie
    0
    6 December 2012 22: 22
    CROCODILE!!!! The more they are upgraded to MI-24 VM, the better!
    1. smprofi
      +2
      7 December 2012 00: 07
      Mi-24VP artillery salvo with 213P-A and UPK-23-250 containers is second only to the gunship AC-130U Specter

  22. +2
    6 December 2012 23: 34
    That "Kamov", that "Mil" continues to work so closely and efficiently in the field of attack helicopters that you are happy and not overjoyed !!! The main thing is that the choice is correct !!!
  23. smprofi
    +1
    7 December 2012 00: 05
    here is no need to hang up noodles about the "new helicopter" Mi-35!
    • Mi-35 - export version of the Mi-24V.
    • Mi-35M1 - modernized. It features TV3-117VMA engines, French avionics, and a shortened wing. The composition of the armament is similar to the Mi-24VP.
    • Mi-35M2 - high-altitude. It is distinguished by TV3-117VMA-SBZ engines.
    • Mi-35M3 - export version of the Mi-24VM.
    • Mi-35MO - at night. It differs in the optoelectronic system GOES-342. In 2000, 2 helicopters were converted.
    • Mi-35P - export version of the Mi-24P.

    moreover, from the "classic" Soviet-made Mi-24s, the Mi-35 series, although modernized, is not for the better in some parameters, in particular in terms of armament. and Mi-35s are cheaper than Mi-24s!

    as for To justify the Mi-35M, it is worth saying that this helicopter is not so bad as it seems at first glance., then you need to know that the Mi-24, according to the classification, is not an attack helicopter, but transport and combat helicopter!
    and according to the idea of ​​Mikhail Leontyevich Mil, it should have been like this:
    - Mi-28 (attack helicopters) attack the enemy
    - Mi-24 (] transport-combat helicopters) provide a bridgehead capture
    - Mi-26 (transport helicopters) ensure the delivery of the main forces to the captured bridgehead

    Before you write anything, at least a little need to familiarize yourself with the question!
    1. +2
      7 December 2012 00: 22
      at the beginning my workshop
      1. smprofi
        +2
        7 December 2012 00: 47
        Ukrainian modernization is quite successful. especially in the area of ​​protection against MANPADS



        however, South Africans from Advanced Technologies and Engineering (ATE) also did a good job

  24. 0
    7 December 2012 00: 42
    Engines for F-16 stolen from Israeli Air Force Base
    Photo: IDF press service website. In the photo: illustration

    The MECAH military police launched an investigation into the loss of engines for F-16 fighters from one of the military units in the center of the country, writes The Times of Israel.

    According to investigators, the theft took place with the participation of a number of military personnel working at this base, since otherwise the robbers would have to deal with a complex security system.

    No traces of breaking into the warehouses were found, which only increased the suspicions of the police that one of the employees of the storehouse was involved in the theft.

    There are no arrested or suspects in this case. Investigators do not know why robbers might need engines, but they assume that thieves are going to take them apart and sell them for scrap. This was the reason for the theft of several engines for the F-15 and F-16, which occurred in June 2011 on the basis of Tel Nof.

    Theft in Israeli military depots over the past year has become a serious problem for the IDF. In May 2012, unknown men hijacked two all-terrain vehicles from a military unit in the south of the country, and in January robbers removed XNUMX tank shells from another warehouse, in which there were a large amount of non-ferrous metals.
    1. smprofi
      0
      7 December 2012 01: 16
      Quote: igor67
      stole engines for the F-16
      - what have slippers to do with it? belay
  25. +1
    7 December 2012 11: 46
    The article does not differ in depth of knowledge by the author of the topic and has several mistakes .. (about ejection seats on the Mi-28, for example). The network has more informative materials.
    Now a few thoughts out loud:
    1. Mi-24 and its modifications are transport and combat helicopters, as one of the commentators said, to capture the bridgehead. Those. attack aircraft. Their goals are unarmored infantry in and outside defenses. Weapons - NURSY. Dr. - about a kilometer. In such circumstances, reliable protection is extremely important.
    2. Mi-28 and Ka-50 were created as anti-tank helicopters with complex and expensive avionics. But the military wanted multipurpose vehicles (Mikheev really resisted giving Kashka counterinsurgency, but apparently did not win.) Result - our newest and most expensive expensive helicopters spend a significant part of their time on NUR launches and cannon fire. Attack of heavily armored vehicles with ATGMs is practically not carried out (read the report from Torzhok Denis Mokrushin). And so the anti-tank helicopter, which, like the American Apache must shoot outside the air defense zone, turned into heavily armored attack aircraft.
    Mi-35 - as it seems to me this is an attempt to bring everything in line - a cheap helicopter has cheap targets, expensive ones are expensive.
    3. The lack of self-guided anti-tank systems is our problem and at the moment there is a "great" brake for moving to the foreign market (the Indians understood this)
  26. Miffody
    0
    7 December 2012 14: 05
    And this, as I understand it, is a laser system for combating thermal-guided missiles.
  27. +1
    7 December 2012 15: 25
    The most important thing in these helicopters, in my opinion, is that we have as many as we need. You need 1000, you need to have 1000. You need 3000, you need to be 3000 thousand. This is currently the essence of the problem.
  28. 0
    7 December 2012 18: 36
    The Mi-35M is an excellent modernization, and this was just what was lacking in both Chechen companies.
    1. +1
      7 December 2012 19: 33
      Nah ... he wasn’t needed there with his performance characteristics!
      1. 0
        7 December 2012 20: 20
        You probably don’t know what TTX is, you wouldn’t write that.
      2. 0
        7 December 2012 20: 25
        Excellent performance characteristics, it is better not to come up with a helicopter for such a conflict.
        1. +1
          7 December 2012 20: 58
          Damn it, it's the same as putting a 30mm machine gun on the Abrams. The "Crocodile" (as far as I know it is called that) has a powerful strike weapon with good armor and survivability. They left everything except the reduced load ... I'm not a specialist, I operate with open sources. IMHO the only thing he had was cut. We added REV as much as possible.
          By the way, in one documentary film I saw that a fully loaded Mi-24 can take off only from a takeoff run - "like an airplane." Is this moment a reality?
          1. +1
            7 December 2012 23: 39
            Quote: desava
            by the way, in one documentary film I saw that a fully loaded Mi-24 can take off only from a run - "like an airplane".

            In Afghanistan, helicopters took off mainly from acceleration. In the heat, the air does not hold well + highlands.
  29. 0
    7 December 2012 19: 54
    I beg your pardon! For ZAVET I’ll specially repeat it))

    "Apache" - The first flight was made in September 1975. Oh, how old! )))
    Maximum take-off weight, kg - 10432 (AH-64D Longbow)
    Engines 2 × 1 890
    Rate of climb: 12,27
    -------------------------------
    Mi-28
    First flight: November 10, 1982
    maximum take-off weight: 12100 kg
    2 × 2200 engines
    Rate of climb: m / s 13,6
    ---------------------------------------
    What can you object? Where is the overwhelming advantage of Apache?
    It's even funny to talk about Cobra.
  30. Anthrax
    -3
    7 December 2012 20: 08
    The Cold War ended and the Apache ceased to enter the U.S. Army since 1994.
    Only now a small series of 56 units will be released until 2026 (losses must be compensated)
    Only the old Apaches are modernizing and also plan to complete the modernization only in 2026
    And our country is apparently many times richer than the United States, we are upgrading previously made helicopters and building new helicopters.
    The largest expenditure items in the US budget are spending on medical programs "Medicare" and "Medicaid" (Medicare / Medicaid) - they amount to just over 789 billion. Moreover, not a single government runs the risk of further reducing these costs. In fact, America perceives the problem of its national debt rather philosophically - no one even remembers that there was a time when the States did not owe anyone. But for the current government, this is still a task. And with a capital letter.

    http://www.bigness.ru/articles/2012-09-06/dolg/136806/
  31. Anthrax
    -4
    7 December 2012 20: 33
    There are about 300 military helicopters throughout China with a truly powerful economy.
    And there are no plans to spank 1100 new
  32. 0
    7 December 2012 23: 20
    I read and proudly lifted my head for its former power.
  33. Stasi
    0
    5 July 2014 12: 36
    KA-52 and MI-28 are both impressive. To argue about which helicopter is better is pointless. The only way to resolve this dispute is to send both such helicopters, for example, to Syria, so that they work for the militants. And then compare which of them showed himself as being in combat conditions.