Military Review

The military-industrial commission is discussing the formation of the 2013 State Defense Order: Did Minister Shoigu accept the ultimatum?

5 December 2012, Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Government Dmitry Rogozin, holds a meeting of the Military Industrial Commission, at which it is planned to discuss pressing issues on the formation of the state defense order. This is perhaps the first serious discussion of the GOZ at such a high level with the involvement of a large number of experts after the post of Russian defense minister was taken by Sergei Shoigu. The outcome of the meeting of the military industrial complex, which is headed by Rogozin, largely depends on what laws the defense order will be formed in our country in the near future. Obviously, the old schemes have completely discredited themselves, and in order not to be unfounded, one can cite talking numbers:

in 2009, the state defense order was fulfilled by about half of the planned volumes, in 2010, the implementation corresponded approximately 70% negotiated rateIn this case, 2011 can be called more or less positive, because the implementation of the SDM was able to reach almost 96,3% (according to the reports of the Ministry of Defense, of course).

Of course, there is growth, but if we take into account the ambitions that the state has in terms of modernizing the army, re-equipping it and changing the very principle of picking to increase efficiency, even 3-4%, let's say, an incomplete state defense order can significantly slow down the modernization program itself. In principle, it is possible to move the dates for the end of modernization from 2020 to a later period, but this can hardly be expected. Why? Yes, because any delay in updating the army as the basis of the country's defense will cause negative emotions and questions of the following nature: “What prevented you from modernizing 10-12 for years when allocating such substantial funds?”

It is about what prevents properly mastering the funds allocated from the state budget, and why the military department of the country can’t really agree with the manufacturers and the discussions are held at the meeting of the military industrial complex. It should be noted that the meeting was preceded by a discussion of the problem of importing weapons for the Russian army during a meeting of the Public Council under the MIC. This meeting took place on Monday and discussed issues related to the analysis of the feasibility and effectiveness of both those purchases that have already been made from foreign manufacturers and plans for new deals on military equipment with foreign partners.

The assembled military experts and specialists in the design of military equipment subjected the Defense Ministry’s plans to purchase certain foreign-made military-technical samples to harsh enough. In particular, Italian Iveco (“Lynx”) armored cars were once again criticized, the Russian military department plans to purchase 1700 units. This time, the criticism boiled down to the fact that Lynxes did not complete a full course of testing in Russian conditions and, accordingly, military experts simply did not have the opportunity to study in detail the advantages of these machines over domestic Tigers, if this advantage exists at all. Yes, and the price of Italian armored military vehicles is not in the example above the price of the Russian "Tigers": "Tiger" costs about 5 million rubles, but the Italians sell their products already on 18-20 million ...

With a new portion of the critics, those gathered spoke about the Mistral helicopter carriers, about which Russia was buying from France and broken without a lot of copies. It turned out that the Ministry of Defense does not yet have a clear plan for the use of these, to put it mildly, not cheap ships. And if it is planned to deliver the Mistrals to the Pacific Fleet, then what tasks will helicopter carriers in this region perform? - sowed rhetorical questions gathered at a meeting of the Public Council under the MIC.
The Israeli drones, which are also planned to be procured for the needs of the Russian army in considerable quantities, were also delivered.

As a result, everyone agreed that import is not even bad at all, but it would be better to use foreign knowledge, technology and experience instead of bulk purchases of technical units. It is one thing when it comes to purchasing individual pieces of military equipment to make a thorough analysis of it and use the knowledge gained to create its own counterparts that can outperform a purchased prototype in terms of efficiency, and it’s quite another to be totally dependent on a foreign manufacturer. After all, if we conduct purchases of military equipment from foreign manufacturers in large volumes, such a dependence will be formed by itself: maintenance, repair, delivery of spare parts, etc.

However, such results of the meeting of the Public Council under the MIC run counter to the opinion expressed not so long ago by Sergei Shoigu. The Minister of Defense, having received information that Russian manufacturers of military equipment often cannot explain why the prices of their products sometimes take off several times in just a couple of years, stated in a rather sharp form that this cannot continue. According to Shoigu, if further pricing in the production of units of military equipment will be opaque, the Ministry of Defense will continue to actively buy equipment from foreign manufacturers. To some extent this can be called the Shoigu ultimatum, which is now being discussed by the manufacturers of equipment. They say that this is Shoigu seriously, or the minister is bluffing - he takes it "weakly".

And in any case, be that as it may, manufacturers will still have to disclose their cards, because otherwise many of the “unrevealed” risk losing state financial support. The reason is that not every manufacturer prefers to provide comprehensive reports on the financial costs of the production of a military product. Indeed, complete transparency in this matter may deprive interested parties of additional income. That is why it so often turns out that they signed a contract last year, for example, for a billion rubles, and this year they need to enter a line on unforeseen expenses for another couple of billions. Here you have an increase of 200% with the declared inflation of 7% in 2012 ... And with the question: where did this disproportion come from, can they safely answer: this is a military secret, and therefore do not ask.

As a result, two practically irreconcilable parties (buyers from the Ministry of Defense and sellers from the defense industry) have to sit down at the same table again and begin intimate conversations about the formation of the state defense order for the next year. For obvious reasons, many people have a keen interest in such conversations: from an ordinary Russian citizen concerned about the effectiveness of the Russian army to the president. The whole intrigue is how much each of the parties is ready for concessions, how much space is allocated for maneuver. If common sense prevails, it will be possible to talk about a new era in the formation of the state defense order, but if we are again shown that the agreements were not fully reached and we need to wait a little longer, then there is a risk of a feeling of deja vu.

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  1. smel
    smel 6 December 2012 08: 27
    Oh-oh-oh. Let's hope that in the end both reason and patriotism triumph. But still we would like the order to correspond to the organizational structure of our armed forces, and those, respectively, to the existing threats. And with the latter, it’s just a problem, and a big problem.
    1. Lucky
      Lucky 6 December 2012 11: 23
      I think they’ll agree. that Rogozin, that Shoigu so at first sight inspire confidence! I think they will be at least better than the previous ministers!
      1. Cosmonaut
        Cosmonaut 6 December 2012 15: 38
        It’s insolent in the military-industrial complex, and not the ministers can’t negotiate. You need to keep them in black gloves.
        For export, they do everything on time, and as for their own, problems suddenly arise.
  2. Gregazov
    Gregazov 6 December 2012 08: 42
    There is a lack of a club capable of reconciling sellers and buyers
    1. YARY
      YARY 6 December 2012 09: 23
      manufacturers will still have to disclose their cards, because otherwise many of the “unopened” run the risk of losing state financial support.

      ... and also be placed against the wall!
      1. yustas
        yustas 6 December 2012 10: 53
        I consider it necessary to introduce the institution of civil servants in the country, and make the average salary in the country, prohibit travel abroad, as well as the acquisition of real estate or any other property abroad! and not only by public servants themselves but also to all his relatives. A person goes to serve the motherland, to the people who inhabit it, and now there is rabble, because they know that they can get enough, and when there is no such prestige, only those who really want to help the country will go there.
        AND YARY I agree with you that the cleanings are necessary and total, but why spend the material, it’s better to work for the good, where is the thread in the Arctic in the mines without the right to return, and if they do not understand and begin to harm there, then yes the execution .
      2. Ross
        Ross 6 December 2012 18: 53
        manufacturers will still have to disclose their cards, because otherwise many of the “unopened” run the risk of losing state financial support.

        This is the most important problem, to make the cost price transparent, to remove kickbacks from it.
  3. afire
    afire 6 December 2012 09: 11
    you need to steal less at these enterprises and no one will have a problem with opacity
  4. merkel1961
    merkel1961 6 December 2012 10: 11
    Let the economists of the Higher School of Economics and Rosstat give explanations about the declared inflation, they will succeed very liberally. But we see an increase in prices for food, housing and communal services, medicine, and these are completely different figures. a flat scale of profit tax, abolish, take the process of pricing under state control, and not only demand "transparency", as opposed to the bear-oligarchic privatization and further sale of the remnants of state property. All such discussions, without breaking the existing economic lawlessness, are fiction!
  5. strannik595
    strannik595 6 December 2012 10: 15
    loot always defeats evil laughing
  6. donchepano
    donchepano 6 December 2012 10: 23
    Funny and sad ... a space power and wants to buy almost 2000 ancient Israeli drones? Yes, and Italian armored vehicles Iveco which is many times more expensive.
    there’s nowhere to put money
  7. kpox
    kpox 6 December 2012 11: 07
    Oh, this whole market model of the military-industrial complex <-> BC I gave rotation, the axis of which was my genital organ. So you can bargain for the "second coming" ....
  8. terp 50
    terp 50 6 December 2012 11: 09
    ... ,, new Russians ,, The habit of robbing, stealing, looting, living widely at one’s expense (otherwise they will consider it a sucker. Even, in the circle, their own, do not boast). On the salary of workers, it is best to remain silent!
    Apparently one Serdyukov LITTLE. And how many are not yet open?
  9. Lucky
    Lucky 6 December 2012 11: 26
    Moshte steal, but all of Russia steals !!!!!! The governor came and complains, the money is getting everything ok, but they steal everything from my deputy to the janitors !!!! what should I do?? now what should he do?
    it is necessary to carry out hypnosis from theft on the TV set from theft in the mentality of people, or of a person like Stalin, then every second person will sit!
    1. Y34Gagarin
      Y34Gagarin 6 December 2012 13: 43
      To abolish the moratorium on the death penalty, introduce a new law, according to which the theft of the amount of more than 1 million is a betrayal of the homeland and put everyone on the wall. For smaller amounts - to collective farms and to the construction of cars and railway roads. Then the people will begin to understand.
  10. tan0472
    tan0472 6 December 2012 14: 51
    According to Shoigu, if further Pricing in the production of units of military equipment will be opaque, the Ministry of Defense will continue to actively buy equipment from foreign manufacturers.
    Military equipment should be produced at state-owned enterprises. Then the weapon will be purchased at cost, the necessary quality (and not what "is") and in the required volume.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 6 December 2012 19: 16
      Quote: tan0472
      Military equipment should be produced at state-owned enterprises. Then the weapon will be purchased at cost, of the required quality (and not what "is") and in the required volume.

      Well, the defense industry has always sinned by overstating prices, I myself had to work there for a long time. So, the former "red directors", and now their descendants "effective managers" have always raised prices, only if the former to hide their mismanagement, then the latter - for profit.
      1. not good
        not good 7 December 2012 16: 20
        It is necessary on the part of the state, for enterprises participating in the state defense order, to freeze (guarantee compensation for the increase) the prices of basic energy resources, and then demand a constant price for all products specified in the supply agreement.
  11. datur
    datur 6 December 2012 15: 04
    tan0472, Military equipment should be produced at state-owned enterprises. Then the weapon will be purchased at the cost price, the required quality (and not what "is") and in the required amount .--- yes !!! The most important thing is that the efficient managers don't have a hand !!! yes
  12. Andrew
    Andrew 6 December 2012 18: 57
    It is very interesting how the figure of 20 trillion turned out. for rearmament. What calculations? Why did you first decide on the amount of financing, and now they know the prices. It was normal to first find out the need of the army, then multiply the price and get the amount of finance. If a lot then cut needs or argue about the price.
  13. Victor
    Victor 6 December 2012 21: 00
    I think that for cleaning in Min. Defense will begin the same, or even stronger, purge in state corporations, and throughout the defense industry. Thieves were sitting there and there, and they are still sitting in the defense industry complex.
    I just don’t understand one thing, those in the defense industry, what are they hoping that they will be carried by the investigating committee? No, it will not carry. Putin has nowhere to retreat, otherwise the fate of Colonel Gaddafi awaits, as the shabby American senator-aviator promised in the Vietnamese pit promised. In general, the near future will show what will bring the second part of the Marleson ballet.
  14. kpox
    kpox 6 December 2012 21: 14
    Russian Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu instructed to prepare legal claims to invalidate a number of transactions with respect to military property sold in violation of the law.
    1. VadimSt
      VadimSt 7 December 2012 01: 47
      Quote: Kpox
      Russian Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu instructed to prepare legal claims to invalidate a number of transactions with respect to military property sold in violation of the law.

      Oh, how I would like to see one more order - about the direction of Serdyukov, on an unofficial inspection trip to the troops. I think he would have been received with "joy and friendliness" in the troops, especially in the Airborne Forces.
      1. Papakiko
        Papakiko 7 December 2012 21: 30
        I think this team will "be able to fix everything"
        An example here:
        watch from 1.25
  15. Magadan
    Magadan 7 December 2012 05: 31
    They made the frill private by a quiet glanders, and now they’re dissolving ??? !!!
    Did you want an "effective owner"? Here, get it. You can fuck up, it means that the privatizers are blackmailing them, but there is nothing to cover, it remains only to frighten with foreign purchases! Shut up ....
    Gather - guys, ordinary workers of these defense plants, explain to them what the pipe business is, you gave our defense to the bourgeoisie, therefore the prices for equipment are higher than beyond the hill, and the hard worker’s salary does not reach 15 thousand. Because someone’s salary of one million Baku per month falls into the cost of the tank! And whose salary do not want to talk to the bourgeois. But the dough they want and beat prices.
    You private business lovers screwed up! Nationalize the plants back! Everything, 100%. Want a "private initiative"? So interest directly the hard workers, and not the bourgeois privatizers.
    1. stranik72
      stranik72 7 December 2012 07: 52
      Slogans, the system which itself created all this, cannot eat itself. I’m afraid that the decision will be made in the direction of worsening the situation, they’ll rather let Russia go around the world with the people than make reasonable decisions. For example, remove management companies such as UAC, Russian Helicopters, Oboronprom, Oboronservis, Aircraft Repair, Engines of Russia, etc. It would be definitely better to create corresponding ministries with functions similar to the USSR, asking them, well, the commission on the military-industrial complex, an assault on the USSR with the same powers. How to keep a bunch of relatives, incompetent greedy for money and attributes of power such as a car, a yacht and a mansion in Monaco, which Russia perceives as a temporary place of work is nothing more. That's somewhere like that, only who will do it, until WE want this, they will not move.
  16. homosum20
    homosum20 7 December 2012 21: 18
    The military-industrial complex, like any commercial structure, if it is not squeezed, will gobble up all the money and not choke.
    1. Papakiko
      Papakiko 7 December 2012 21: 28
      MIC is in the USA!
      In the Russian Federation - the Defense Industrial Complex !!!