Five versions of what happened in the Bryansk region

342
Five versions of what happened in the Bryansk region

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is expectedly silent, and I am absolutely sure that we will be waiting for the official version for a long time. Something tells me it will.

In terms of confirmation, it’s no longer funny, tears are already welling up. President of Belarus Lukashenko confirmed that 2 planes and 2 helicopters of the Russian Aerospace Forces were shot down in the Bryansk region. And they refer to it. No one else...



And here everything is as usual: if there are no explanations from those who could do this, then we ourselves will come up with and voice it. Well-fertilized black soil for "experts" of various kinds and properties. Moreover, this time so many versions have been put forward that the head is spinning.

What we have?


The first Mi-8 was shot down by a missile and crashed in the Klintsovsky district of the Bryansk region. The second shot down was a Su-34 fighter-bomber, which fell near the Ukrainian border in the village of Istrovka near the regional center of Starodub. The third loss was a Su-35 fighter shot down near the village of Suretsky Muravey, Klintsovsky District. The fourth was another Mi-8, which fell near the village of Volkustichi, Unechsky district, Bryansk region, 70 km from the border.

All nine pilots were killed.

And there is an important point here: if the six members of the Mi-8 crew did not have much chance, then the death of the Su-34 and Su-35 pilots, equipped with the latest in our technology in terms of rescue, says a lot. But let's go in order.

There were so many versions in three days that the mind went beyond the mind. But from the stream it turned out to choose a certain amount for discussion, because many (both smart and not at all) thought converged. And therefore, we will begin, as far as it is logical, to look at who saw what.

1. The version is the craziest. DRG



Yes, there are two contenders for the title of the craziest version, but this one is the most outstanding. It started at Strelkov / Girkin, then there was someone to pick it up and smash it.

The version is not something that does not stand up to criticism, it is even somehow not easy to criticize it. It turns out a non-science fiction action movie: four groups of Ukrainian specialists enter the territory of Russia, are located on the route of planes and helicopters flying from their bases, and the bases are in different places, I hope this is understandable.

Then, almost simultaneously, they fire off a certain number of missiles, shoot down all four aircraft and calmly leave for the territory of Ukraine.

And nobody saw anything. Heaps of people film the defeat of the plane and helicopter, but no one saw the launch, which was not without a trace. For MANPADS, with a missile range of an average of 5 km - fantastic.

But all these are really trifles, just those who rushed to talk about MANPADS in the hands of Ukrainian saboteurs did not see a photo of the helicopter blades shot through, which completely buries the MANPADS version.

MANPADS have a very small warhead, on average around the world up to 3 kg. That is why such a rocket is aimed at the most vulnerable spot - the engine. And it’s easier to hover over the temperature, and disable the aircraft.

And the blades pierced close to the center of rotation indicate that it was a large rocket, which was also guided by the heat of the engine, but fired a charge either from balls or from arrows into the helicopter from TOP.


So, if anything, the Buk works, which makes it a very unpleasant opponent.

2. Almost the craziest version, but the most disgusting one. Collaborators and traitors



There will be some quotes here. We will not advertise to people, replicating their stupidity and mediocrity, but there is no other way.

“This is a carefully planned operation.”

Agree. Unplanned operations usually end up wrong. We will not go for examples, but in this case we must agree - the operation was planned and carried out very efficiently. Four out of four - you know, it's strong.

The most obvious conclusion is that we are dealing with a betrayal on our part, someone leaked these groups and routes to the enemy "

Here is the clearest example of discrediting the Russian Aerospace Forces, for which the author will get nothing. With a light tap of the keyboard, Mr. "voenkor" accused of betrayal ... whom? And who knew about flight routes? Regiment commander? Regimental navigator? Chief of staff? And what, FSB officers should already be rushing to all of them? In all three divisions? And the officers of the regiments should already be lying “face to the floor” or with broken lips vying to testify about who they told about where the planes and helicopters will fly tomorrow?

Well, in the mythical modern Stirlitz, who, with the help of some tricks, received data on the composition and routes, I personally do not believe. So - the commanders of the dead pilots were written down as traitors.

Another statement on the topic from another "military correspondent":
“On the question of how the enemy learns about what and where we are flying, everything is very simple - they have a lot of eyes around airfields, and any program sees flights through satellites. In Mariupol, our military, through the radios squeezed from the Ukrainians, quickly learned that ours was flying. aviationthan from the headquarters "

Eyes around the airfields ... The gentlemen say it is completely tactless, it cannot be called a hint, that in Russia a traitor sits on a traitor and partisan detachments are at every step. They sit, you know, around airfields and watch where and who will fly.

Well, well, for more than 25 years I lived one and a half kilometers from such an airfield. And I watched flights until I got tired of this business to death. The plane takes off. And turns into a dot. And then disappears from view. And all that I, as a spy, could pass somewhere - yes, the couple took off. All.

Programs and satellites - yes. Especially programs on satellites, along with good optics. But what about those who are not lucky enough to live near the airfield? No, it’s so clear that our paladins in white armor just let someone hunt them down, but why is the entire population so dunked in the mud? Besides, it's unproven.

But we have such military correspondents and there will be no others. And those that are, see in every citizen of Russia a potential traitor. On special suspicion are residents of settlements near military airfields.

Apparently, for such reasons, “Interception” was launched in the Bryansk region, apparently with the aim of intercepting Ukrainian saboteurs coming out to traffic police posts. As far as I understand, no one was intercepted.

3. The version is not crazy, but incredible. Air defense of the RF Armed Forces



Some "experts" voiced the version that the planes and helicopters were shot down by their own air defense.

In general, of course, this happens quite often in war, and aviation receives from its own. cases story knows a lot. But all cases of "friendly fire" have reasons that are easy to classify:
- unpreparedness of the air defense calculation;
- non-working "friend or foe" transponders near aircraft;
- malfunction of the technical part;
- direct order.

The first option is how the Syrians shot down our Il-20. A difficult situation that leaves much to be desired in the preparation of the calculation, the old rocket and the old software - and here's the result. The missile captures the target it likes best, regardless of the responder. And that's it.

An example of the second option happened last year. The air defense of one country, which is not at war with anyone, spotted the plane. A Ukrainian-made transporter, in my opinion, An-26, which was slowly crawling somewhere about its business. And the defendant "friend or foe" did not work for him. Started calling on the radio - no answer. They sent a fighter from the nearest airfield, which was actually not very close. But the plane did not fly, there was not enough fuel, they did not have time to refuel it after the on-duty overflight of the territories. The pilot also yelled into the radio, he almost caught up with the transporter, but literally there was not enough fuel for 10 minutes.

Meanwhile, the 26th began to approach the capital. Not a country, but a region. And here's a picture for you: an airplane is flying. Does not respond to any inquiries. But the plane is yours. It seems to be. And what to do? What if they are already sitting there, and in the end, how will they arrange it in the USA?

In the end, the decision was made. A bonfire on the ground, an eternal memory to the crew (they turned out to be their own), all aviation was shaken up for compliance with flight rules and radio communications.

In principle, this case can also illustrate the third and fourth options.

But in our case, even the Ukrainian side, the Ukrainian media, express doubts that everything is so bad here. Yes, there was and always will be a chance of hitting friendly people, but it’s one thing to shoot down one target with an erroneous launch, and it’s quite another to arrange such an execution.

In addition, it personally doesn’t fit in my head how Russian air defense crews can shoot down FOUR of their targets with working “friend or foe” defendants. And in the same way, the option that all of our aircraft flew with transponders turned off does not fit into my head.

This, you know, is beyond even non-science fiction. Missiles flying at aircraft, despite the identification system or aircraft that do not include it.

Indeed, the most incredible version.

4. The version is less crazy and less incredible. Ukrainian Air Force fighters



There are still fighter jets in Ukraine. Both MiG-29 and Su-27. It is a fact. And they also have modern rockets. The UK and US have donated a number of AIM-120 AMRAAMs.

AIM-120, depending on the modification, fly at a distance of 70 to 105 and even 180 km. That is, enough to take off, gain altitude, see targets, aim and shoot. But the unpleasant moment is that the AIM-120 needs to “show” the target using the radar. That is, to find yourself in addition to the fact that any aircraft will certainly “light up” on enemy radars.

That is, aircraft to launch the AIM-120 will have to take off, gain a certain altitude, approach the launch site, climb even higher in order to capture the target with their radars and launch.

And here again questions to the air defense of Russia. Where it was and why it did not find Ukrainian planes is a question. That is, if there were planes. If not, then it’s not worth asking questions on this topic yet, although it is questions to our air defense that run like an orange thread through the entire article.

But in general, the version is viable, if only our air defense worked in the style of the three monkeys "I see nothing, I hear nothing, I will not tell anyone anything." If not, the situation is doubtful. Well, the Su and MiGs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine could not at one moment become invisible and not appear on the screens of the Russian army radar. Moreover, there are more than one observation posts.

So the version with fighters sneaking up on our planes and helicopters at ultra-low altitude does not look justified.

5. The most probable version. Ukrainian air defense



Novgorod-Seversky district of the Chernihiv region of Ukraine is separated from Klintsy, under which everything happened, by fifty kilometers. From 50 to 60 km to several settlements of the region, where there are all conditions in order to calmly locate anti-aircraft missile systems and a communications and guidance center.

That is, we are talking not only about the S-300V, which can easily hit all targets within a radius of 30 km around the city of Klintsy, but also systems of a shorter range.

Some analysts noted that the PAC-2 / GEM + missiles of the Patriot complex are able to hit at a distance of up to 100 km.

“But it is unlikely that the Armed Forces of Ukraine would have taken such a risk, putting one of the most advanced air defense systems at their disposal under attack”

Vice versa. Compared to how the Armed Forces of Ukraine hurriedly hit Luhansk with the newly arrived Shadow of the Storm cruise missiles, then the use of the Patriot is fully justified here. Demonstrating your success is, to a certain extent, a guarantee that in the future they will give something else that the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not have, but would very much like to receive.

And then, to some extent, Western arms manufacturers consider Ukraine as a kind of testing ground for testing their equipment and ammunition. This is quite a normal practice, given that the last time such an opportunity was provided 20 years ago. I mean Iraq. Everything else, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, you understand, are not the countries where you can use anti-aircraft missiles worth over a million dollars (a Patriot air defense missile is $3 million). They just don't have goals.

As for the NASAMS complex, it could also be used easily and naturally. It all depends on the range of missiles. If AIM-120C-5 with a range of 105 km, then why not? And the S-7 is already flying for 120 km. So it all depends on what the allies brought for the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

But the Soviet S-300V and Buk are quite suitable in terms of their performance characteristics for such a task. That is, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had something to carry out this operation, but why it became such a revelation and surprise for us is a question.


The fact that the complexes were covertly advanced to the border, but our intelligence did not find out, is a fact. Therefore, the planes and helicopters that were on their territory were, frankly, taken by surprise. Is it a joke to shoot down two EW helicopters, whose specialization was precisely the stunning and suppression of air defense systems?

In general, with regard to helicopters, the moment that they were 50 kilometers from the line of contact deserves a separate investigation. These machines are completely unarmed and are excellent targets for any air defense systems. But, being 100-150 km from the LBS, they can very well perform the task of counteracting the work of the enemy's air defense systems.

As a conclusion, only questions


1. Who actually sent the "axes" to the front line and what this person was guided by - this is a question to which I would like to know the answer. This man, who planned the operation in such a way and approved it, is responsible for the death of nine people and four cars.

2. What did our RTR and air defense do that day? Russian Spring reported on a "massive launch". Our air defense, according to "RV", "some of the missiles were able to shoot down our air defense systems, but four missiles broke through." That is, exactly as much as needed. So sorry, but there are a lot of doubts here. And not a single confirmation of the work of our air defense. Alas.

3. How many times has Ukrainian air defense been destroyed in reports and reports? And, if it is really destroyed, then what happens?

4. Why is the enemy still calmly delivering any ammunition and equipment to the LBS, and does it with impunity?

5. Where is our air, space, radio engineering, army intelligence? Do we have any of the above that can detect such surprises in the future?

Of course, I would like to wait for at least some kind of reaction in the form of an official version from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

However, the Ministry of Defense, Peskov, federal TV channels are still silent. Three days after the crash. Governor Bogomaz also did not speak again. The fact that the press attaché of the whole president of the allied Belarus works for them is nonsense, although Alexander Grigoryevich needs to be specially thanked. Otherwise, I would have walked in the rank of a fake news.

Eternal memory to the fallen soldiers. Deepest condolences to family and friends. And the expectation of at least some information from our leadership is not in the style of "the boat sank." But it is precisely this approach that leads to the emergence of the most insane and delusional versions on the independent Internet.

And the inhabitants of the town of Klintsy have so far begun to equip an impromptu memorial in memory of the dead pilots.
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342 comments
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  1. +53
    17 May 2023
    Good questions. Very unpleasant conclusions arise.
    1. +58
      17 May 2023
      Quote: billybones
      Good questions. Very unpleasant conclusions arise.

      The author missed the obvious. Command incompetence. Because even without betrayal, organizing an air defense ambush, and even with long-range missiles, flying along the same route, at the same height, for planes and helicopters, this is AZ!
      And according to various reports, such as FB, idiocy in terms of heights and routes not only exists, but flourishes!
      1. +42
        17 May 2023
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        The author missed the obvious. Command incompetence


        Not only incompetent commanders. The entire army turned out to be completely incompetent and unprepared for modern conflicts.
        All the same rake that the Russian army stepped on in the First World War, in the Finnish War, and then the Second World War. I am already silent about the first Chechen war.

        For a long time now, I have no hope that it will be possible to turn the army in Russia into a modern, combat-ready army, ready to challenge modern realities. It's not ours. We have only beautiful parades, military bands with songs and dances, and of course thousands of films about how our partisans or soldiers smash the enemy to smithereens with their cunning and professional operations.
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            1. -21
              17 May 2023
              Quote from iran
              That is why I no longer have any hopes that we will have a NATO-level army (well, or something close).

              Is this the army that scrambled from Afghanistan?
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                2. +2
                  17 May 2023
                  compared to what is not in our favor? can be more?
                3. +1
                  17 May 2023
                  Quote from iran
                  For me, the number of losses is more important, it is clearly not in our favor.

                  Quote from iran
                  that I write about Afghanistan, not Ukraine.

                  Well, who are ours?
              2. +13
                17 May 2023
                Quote: Dart2027
                the army that draped

                Made difficult decisions and took more advantageous positions for defense, you mean?

                Regarding Afghanistan, questions are for the State Department, and not for the army.
                1. 0
                  17 May 2023
                  Quote: Negro
                  Regarding Afghanistan, questions are for the State Department, and not for the army.

                  That is, did not drape?
              3. +30
                17 May 2023
                Quote: Dart2027
                Quote from iran
                That is why I no longer have any hopes that we will have a NATO-level army (well, or something close).

                Is this the army that scrambled from Afghanistan?


                In fairness, the American drape from Afghanistan was a purely political decision. The American military held Afghan firmly, they even had almost no losses in recent years.
                1. +14
                  17 May 2023
                  From Afghanistan, they jumped off so hastily because they clearly knew about the imminent start of their.
                  1. +4
                    17 May 2023
                    Quote: Ksyusha Oleneva
                    From Afghanistan, they jumped off so hastily because they clearly knew about the imminent start of their.

                    It is possible, but they performed it utterly clumsily.
                    1. 0
                      17 May 2023
                      Well, but very quickly and practically without loss.
                  2. +10
                    17 May 2023
                    So the Americans were making noise all December, January, that Russia was going to attack, that the news had already been forgotten?))) And in February, the NWO began. Apparently Intelligence at our very top has a paw ...
                  3. +1
                    17 May 2023
                    I also think so. The Americans knew what was expected. And they decided that hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers were killed without an answer, it’s better than sitting in Afghanistan
                2. +2
                  17 May 2023
                  Quote: Alexander Emrys
                  The American military held Afghan firmly, they even had almost no losses in recent years.

                  Firmly they held only their bases from which they almost did not climb out. History is silent about how many losses the Afghan puppet army had. But how much it cost to maintain all this infrastructure with incomprehensible prospects is approximately known - the sums are huge. Therefore, they made a political decision - to get out.
                3. +1
                  18 May 2023
                  In fairness, it must be said that the occupation of Afghanistan cost the United States $ 20 trillion over 2,3 years, this is not counting how much money other NATO countries spent in the coalition in Afghanistan, which they do not firmly hold on to such money. Not a single Superpower helped the Taliban with weapons and money, unlike when there was a contingent of Soviet troops in the 70-80s. After Ghani fled the country in a plane full of cash, the Afghan army, which had been trained and armed for 20 years by the most "powerful" military-political bloc in the world and which was supposed to keep the country under control for 3-4 months after NATO left, surrendered Afghanistan Taliban within 48 hours. And then the whole world saw long jumps without a parachute from the landing gear of transport aircraft, the equipment and weapons left by the Americans worth $ 90 billion to the Taliban in exchange for the unimpeded operation of the Kabul airport. This, of course, can be called the planned withdrawal of the contingent of NATO countries from Afghanistan, but for the parties it looked like a complete Collapse and Flight.
              4. +17
                17 May 2023
                Is this the army that scrambled from Afghanistan?
                And there are no other hypotheses about the reasons for leaving Afghanistan? The goal of US policy is to create chaos to prevent the emergence of economic competitors. This they have successfully done. Creation of a new world order with a radical regime and better technologically backward. Therefore, they sat in Kabul to the last, until the Taliban came there. Post submitted, post accepted. We left them a lot of weapons to support their pants. Then they still had plans for the outskirts. The states do not seem to disperse their forces and keep everything in a concentrated form. Therefore, having passed the post, we moved on to resolving the issue with the outskirts. The states, as masters of disinformation, have well lulled the opinion of many by showing that the states have become decrepit. A sickly reception will pretend to be weak and strike. What did they safely do on the outskirts! Yes, and expanded the territory of NATO! Robustly disposed of our equipment abroad. On the sly, they are transferring ukrov to NATO standards by supplying new and disposing of old weapons. In fact, the outskirts has technologically become NATO territory by expanding the bloc! We will modestly keep silent about the prospect of loans (essentially financing our military-industrial complex) for the purchase of weapons from the United States (they have already automatically limited the export of weapons to us)! Such a good move of the states!
              5. +17
                17 May 2023
                The Soviet army in 1989 draped from Afghanistan? Or is it still organized?
                1. -6
                  17 May 2023
                  Quote from Sumotori_380
                  Or is it still organized?

                  Will there be footage of how people clung to taking off planes in 1989?
            2. -13
              17 May 2023
              “I have one question for you: are you piloting a combat couch or a combat toilet?”
              Well, finally there was a commentator who writes straight from the trench.
            3. 0
              17 May 2023
              What kind of foreign military, if their combat-ready PMCs are spreading rot, deputies-generals who ran around with a machine gun and a machine gun in a drunken stupor on a fishing trip !?
          2. +4
            17 May 2023
            The planes were most likely shot down by our S-400 missiles 9M96E. Only she and the NOSAMS missile fit in size, but in fact, anyone who understands at least a little how NOSAMS works and how they protect themselves from it will easily understand that it is just an incredible version of the NOSAMS strike.

            To begin with, lamers, like here sofa boots in the comments by 99%, confuse the range of the AIM-120 and the operation of the NOSAMS radar in the target tracking and missile guidance mode. In the guidance mode, where you need to control the missile much more accurately, the range of all radars in the world is much less than the survey one. In the case of NOSAMS, it is more like 50 km. True, it is possible to supply some more advanced radar, but there are very BIG problems to hit the sides at 50 km. More precisely, the pilots must all be drunk as an insole to allow this.

            The fact is that the AIM-120 missile requires constant irradiation of the radar target while flying along its ballistic trajectory at a distance of 50 km. This is an important point that lamers should understand that this is an air-to-air missile and not with the same energy as heavy S-400 missiles, therefore they fly to the maximum range in ballistics and, as you might guess, they will plan from above to board with the engine turned off approximately at an angle of 25-40 degrees. This was not observed here - the rocket flew almost straight ahead like the S-400.

            The question is that at 50 km the AIM-120 will fly for a whole minute and for a whole MINUTE the pilots will howl the radiation warning siren. This is enough to drop to 50 meters and go beyond the horizon, and the helicopter can even land. However, there are not even signs of lowering the sides, because. they considered their exposure to be a FRIENDLY radar.

            There is another problem for the AIM-120 due to its ballistic trajectory, which the lamers here do not understand from their sofas. When launching any missile on an energetically favorable ballistic tractor, you need to know the DISTANCE to the target very accurately. And all 4 sides had electronic warfare. Quite simply, electronic warfare can block ANY radar measuring distance simply by starting to issue copies of its pulses in series. It will not be clear on what impulse to measure the range. Therefore, launching along a ballistic trajectory in fact on board with electronic warfare impossible. Therefore, modern NATO air defense systems, like the Patriot PAC-3, even more likely have a trend to reduce the firing range, since it is almost an unrealistic task to hit somewhere beyond 50 km along a ballistic trajectory with electronic warfare. This is another reason why glide bombs are so effective. The bomber is almost safe here with 50 km.

            However, the pilots did not try to descend, did not turn on exactly the electronic warfare against the ballistic modes of the air defense system, which means only exposure friendly Radar.

            The essential point is the almost rectilinear flight of the rocket. This is just a feature of the S-400 missiles, and that’s why they are so huge so as not to use ballistics, and therefore they can safely fly simply to the EW radiation as to a radio beacon. The angle of approach of the missiles on the target is low, like that of the S-400.

            Now about your stranger. For felt boots, it is not clear how friend or foe can not work, it seems to be a simple scheme. I inform. In fact, pilots enter friend-foe codes MANUALLY before the flight. Hence the "failures" about which the Firebomber writes. It is extremely likely that in our gouging Air Force there was simply a mess with codes for manual entry. S-400 will fill up 4 unknown group targets easily and simply. Like a partridge in a shooting range. Approximately 10 seconds of operator work on confirmation.

            It is most likely that the S-400 sides were shot down due to regular errors in working with code books. We're in the stone age here.

            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +2
              18 May 2023
              All this flow of slurry is interrupted by one fact. AIM-120 has a mode of guidance to the source of radio interference.
            3. 0
              18 May 2023
              If these were Ukrainian radars (or radars), then even if the pilots of the aircraft did not see the exposure and did not trigger the SPO, so the pilots did not take action and did not report what they had enough time for, then RTR simply could not miss this work The radar station would have been fixed and we would have known the attacker the next day. But we see nothing of the kind.
              In addition, it personally doesn’t fit in my head how Russian air defense crews can shoot down FOUR of their targets with working “friend or foe” defendants.

              The only logical explanation is that the air defense systems did not perceive the targets as their own. The version about the error with identification codes just suggests itself.
              But in our case, even the Ukrainian side, the Ukrainian media, express doubts that everything is so bad here.

              On the contrary, the Ukrainians immediately declared that they shot down their own.
            4. 0
              18 May 2023
              It is most likely that the S-400 sides were shot down due to regular errors in working with code books.


              However, a terrible conclusion.
          3. Uno
            +2
            17 May 2023
            In this way, trolls appear and no one discusses the topic of the article, but only what this troll emphasized)
        2. -19
          17 May 2023
          Quote from iran
          The entire army turned out to be completely incompetent and unprepared for modern conflicts.
          All the same rake that the Russian army stepped on in the First World War, in the Finnish War, and then the Second World War. I am already silent about the first Chechen war.

          So shut up, about the whole army. Because the Airborne Forces - from the regimental and lower command showed themselves quite adequately. And the private and junior command personnel, as usual, showed the highest level of individual training.
          And no less level was shown by the calculations of the OTRK. And no less than the crews of the VKS and army aviation.
          This is the minimum that was visible and understandable.
          So keep your mouth shut about the entire army.
          1. +18
            17 May 2023
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Airborne Forces - from the regimental and lower command showed themselves quite adequately. And the private and junior command personnel, as usual, showed the highest level of individual training.
            And no less level was shown by the calculations of the OTRK. And no less than the crews of the VKS and army aviation.

            And what is the result for the last year? Can you present it?
            I see only Wagner fighting. Almost took the whole town!
            1. -1
              17 May 2023
              Quote: Stas157
              And what is the result for the last year? Can you present it?
              I see only Wagner fighting. Almost took the whole town!

              Can you compare the number of belligerents and the total number of armed forces? What can you say about untouched bridges and tunnels? About strange gestures of goodwill? What do you say about leaving the Sumy, Chernihiv and Kyiv regions? Or is it the competence of private and junior officers? A? Answer, whose competence is this?
            2. -8
              17 May 2023
              “I see only Wagner fighting. They've almost taken the whole town."
              Yeees? And why, then, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have not yet cut the land corridor to the Crimea and returned Mariupol? There is no Wagner.
              And who then strikes the bean strikes?
              1. +7
                17 May 2023
                Quote: Coward
                And why, then, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have not yet cut the land corridor to the Crimea and returned Mariupol to themselves? There is no Wagner.


                Take more. Write down why the Vsu haven't captured Moscow yet?
                1. -10
                  17 May 2023
                  Here's the answer. You have destroyed our army. We don't know how to fight.
              2. +12
                17 May 2023
                Bean kicks?))
                Bean strikes your 5 (column?) point on the toilet, from which you write any .... alternative and useless information
            3. -1
              17 May 2023
              And where do you see, if not a military secret, of course?
            4. -2
              18 May 2023
              Quote: Stas157
              I see only Wagner fighting. Almost took the whole town!

              Well, tell me, through what do you see it? Through the window, through the binoculars?
              You know, like most here, and you only see what they let you see and know! Often this does not reflect reality at all. Do you understand this or not, "all-seeing eye"!?
          2. +12
            17 May 2023
            And how did they show themselves? Maybe when retreating from raisins, balakley, from under Kyiv they were shot like sheep??? This??? Or have they been taking bakhmut in the forehead together with the Wagners for a year already ??? This???
            1. +5
              17 May 2023
              Quote from: wervolf1981
              And how did they show themselves? Maybe when retreating from raisins, balakley, from under Kyiv they were shot like sheep??? This??? Or have they been taking bakhmut in the forehead together with the Wagners for a year already ??? This???


              What can you say about untouched bridges and tunnels? About strange gestures of goodwill? What can you say about leaving the Sumy, Chernihiv and Kyiv regions? Or is it the competence of private and junior officers? A? Answer, whose competence is this?
              1. -9
                17 May 2023
                You are all wrong. The army and navy are a system of values ​​and an organization of interaction. What is here: air defense, flight routes, FSB, DRG (counteraction), yenzin porridge, disinformation in their direction (and ours?) And 1001 more fairy tales.
                Any regiment and below is not an army, but a swoop of hussars.
                Take over territory and integrate it... Hehe.
                The entire left-bank outskirts could not .... So far.
                And in 24 g it will turn out? To oaks and cabbages, yours, the whole law enforcement system and sweets + socks, jeans with gold and songs from the radio (Internet) are applied.
                Organization of life.
                How India was held by 100 thousand white Angles with 300 million Hindus.
                And "Beria" kept the "vesssr" in fear.
                Inspection at the checkpoint, passes, the movement of everything and everything, sedimentation tanks and 1002 more tales of the rear support of the army.
                This is without His organization of the whole life for 20 million lions of the cherished outskirts.
                The launch of an anti-tank missile system is not an army, but only for Kononeev "a tank burned out."
                Victory on the outskirts - denazification and demilitarization.
                The goals were, are and will be.
                Are 300 tons of people of the RF Armed Forces ready for the re-education of the Ukhria?
                This will be a victory. She is not.
                And "husarsdacha do not take" - the cadet's foller. After graduating from college, adult life began.
                The army is only part of the state's system for maintaining its own !!!! values ​​on the territory of their state.
                Etc.
                When the former USSR becomes our part, then Victory.
                Amtsy in Afghanistan and Iraq have not achieved this
              2. +18
                17 May 2023
                The question is in the wrong place. With this question, contact V. V. Putin. True, he can say that bridges and tunnels work only at night, and hide during the day.
                1. +1
                  17 May 2023
                  What a subtle irony hi "" ""
          3. +12
            17 May 2023
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Because the Airborne Forces - from the regimental and lower command showed themselves quite adequately.

            Are these not the same Airborne Forces, about which military commander Mikhail Zvinchuk (Rybar) told Vladlen Tatarsky on Solovyov Live that the Airborne Forces are not visible at the front because there are few paratroopers left? According to them, by the end of September, the Airborne Forces had lost 40-50% of their staff.
            We all remember how incompetently the command threw the elite of the Russian army, the Airborne Forces, into assaults, breakthroughs, frontal attacks - on "aluminum" BMDs, and how they burned to the ground.
            1. -6
              17 May 2023
              Quote: Hyperion
              Are these not the same Airborne Forces, about which military commander Mikhail Zvinchuk (Rybar) told Vladlen Tatarsky on Solovyov Live that the Airborne Forces are not visible at the front because there are few paratroopers left? According to them, by the end of September, the Airborne Forces had lost 40-50% of their staff.

              No, not those. Those Airborne Forces that I know (11 Airborne Brigade) have returned to their places of permanent deployment for half a year or a little more.
          4. +8
            17 May 2023
            Yeah. Vasya Pupkin was the best on the field, he scored five goals, but the team still lost, conceding ten. What is the practical result of the actions of the Airborne Forces?
            1. -13
              17 May 2023
              Quote: Ksyusha Oleneva
              Yeah. Vasya Pupkin was the best on the field, he scored five goals, but the team still lost, conceding ten. What is the practical result of the actions of the Airborne Forces?

              Of course, you are a girl, and you are allowed to be dumber than the rest, but not understanding the difference between actions at the level of regiments and at the level of fronts or the state is even too much for a girl.
              1. +2
                18 May 2023
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                Of course you are a girl

                Did you determine this from a photo and a nickname?!))
          5. +4
            18 May 2023
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Because the Airborne Forces - from the regimental and lower command showed themselves quite adequately.


            Rather from a platoon. The burnt-out columns of BMD-4s and Shells at the beginning of the war are not Shoigu and Gerasimov, they are just "regimental and lower command."
        3. +23
          17 May 2023
          Once again, the enemy showed how to fight and staged a "beating of babies."
          And again a difficult, insoluble question arises: will anyone answer for this?
          And why... how could this happen?
          1. -34
            17 May 2023
            “Once again, the enemy showed how to fight and staged a “beating of babies.”
            Yes. Crimea has already been liberated and they are approaching Moscow. And we ran out of missiles, this time especially strongly.
            1. +39
              17 May 2023
              Quote: Coward
              And we ran out of missiles, this time especially strongly.

              What you definitely won't run out of is the amount of awkward security guard comments.
              1. -3
                17 May 2023
                what you definitely won't run out of is the number of awkward guardian comments.

                They don't scream mad people, don't sow, but give birth themselves.

                "The Prayer of Daniel the Sharpener"
            2. +24
              17 May 2023
              "Uh-huh. Crimea has already been liberated and they are approaching Moscow."
              it will be necessary - and they will release, and they will come. but they have something to learn, for example, how to defend their positions, using the example of bakhmut. and not run away at the slightest threat, losing equipment and weapons, as in a red estuary. or without any threat at all, as in Kherson
              1. -8
                17 May 2023
                Quote: aglet
                it will be necessary - and they will release, and they will come.

                Wow, what has the arrestovich been talking about for a long time and has it already happened? So the forelock Crimea has been needed since the age of 14, if anyone has not yet understood.
                1. +13
                  17 May 2023
                  You don't have enough facts about how they beat us? What Konashenkov broadcasts, words and only words. And here is a video confirmation of the drowned flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the explosion of the Crimean bridge, the abandoned newest tank, and now four downed sides over their territory. If our skilled, in your words, fighters and commanders continue to fight Bandera like the shock core of an attacking NATO, they will reach the walls of the Kremlin with their hands. Not that Crimea will be occupied again. And then "Get Up the Huge Country" may be too late. Our resources are not needed by the forelocks, they are needed by the impudent Saxons. They will feel that this time "the business will burn out" the whole pack will be kicked at us. Poles, Germans, Romanians...
              2. -7
                17 May 2023
                Quote: aglet
                it will be necessary - and they will release, and they will come

                So why haven't they come up yet?
                1. +2
                  18 May 2023
                  "So why haven't they come yet?"
                  so not yet needed. as long as they fly laughing
                  1. -5
                    18 May 2023
                    Quote: aglet
                    means not yet

                    That is, they cannot.
            3. +6
              17 May 2023
              Let's say that our rockets are endless!!! This is good! But even in defense, denazification can be carried out endlessly ... For how long? Until the last xx'la? Or until the last Russian? Xh'lov then the Poles and mercenaries will replace ....
          2. +7
            17 May 2023
            And again a difficult, insoluble question arises: will anyone answer for this?
            And why... how could this happen?

            Well, they find the culprit, so what?
            These are not your main questions.
            Main - Is the reason found? Has the bug been fixed and does it prevent a recurrence in the future?
        4. +26
          17 May 2023
          absolutely true .... unfortunately, a complete failure in everything ... the army turned out to be identical to the life of ordinary Russians ... also one fraud and propaganda ... parades and biathlons, it's like a mat. capital and ten thousand each with covid ... one PR, but a real failure
        5. -11
          17 May 2023
          Quote from iran
          For a long time I have no hope that it will be possible to turn the army in Russia into a modern, combat-ready army on my own.

          And this is in vain! Russia has come to life more than once, coming out of extreme and sometimes seemingly hopeless situations.
          Monk Abel: “Where are the Tatars, Your Imperial Majesty? Where are the Poles?
          1. +1
            17 May 2023
            And this is in vain! Russia has come to life more than once, coming out of extreme and sometimes seemingly hopeless situations.
            Monk Abel: “Where are the Tatars, Your Imperial Majesty? Where are the Poles?

            (+) Surprised by so many downvotes to your comment.
        6. -6
          17 May 2023
          The leaders of Wagner were able to create an effective structure. There would be political will, it’s another matter that it doesn’t exist
          1. +3
            18 May 2023
            "Were the leaders of Wagner able to create an effective structure"
            and what is its effectiveness? in the fact that 10 months are beating their foreheads in a small town, and they began to count successes in meters? my advice to Prigozhin is to count in millimeters, and you yourself will scratch yourself from your successes laughing . of course, after taking strategic ridges laughing
            1. -4
              18 May 2023
              Quote: aglet
              in the fact that 10 months are beating their foreheads in a small town, and they began to count successes in meters?

              Disposing of the enemy on an industrial scale.
              Quote: aglet
              my advice is good

              And you will go and personally tell him, or rather show him.
        7. +2
          17 May 2023
          Quote from iran
          For a long time now, I have no hope that it will be possible to turn the army in Russia into a modern, combat-ready army, ready to challenge modern realities.

          And whose forces will it be possible to transform? Whom to call "reign"? We ourselves can’t do anything, neither make a car like in Europe, nor a modern combat-ready army, nor manage our resources ... Whom will we call to fix everything for us. Germans? French? Or is it the Americans? Moreover, we are familiar with their dollar ...
        8. -6
          17 May 2023
          That's where they are sitting, everything is here in the VO, everything is gone, everything is bad, and I suppose they themselves wore officer's shoulder straps, or didn't they have to? And who pulled the Great Patriotic War on his shoulders? Zelensky and Biden? Not "this is yours" if you have a yellow-Blakytny passport
          1. +1
            17 May 2023
            In order to mobilize those who will stretch on their shoulders, there must be a mobilized, intelligent, far-sighted and unbending tough leader. Supreme Commander. Delving into all the details and remembering who and where he commands what and how. And the greens and the can are an empty place, puppets, what did you cite them for?
            1. +5
              18 May 2023
              "A zelya and a can is an empty place"
              while this "empty place" is more successful in combat operations than our commander-in-chief with his generals and advisers
        9. 0
          17 May 2023
          It is not so much the comment itself that is striking, but the number of pluses.
          With this one:
          "The whole army turned out to be completely incompetent...",
          I disagree.
        10. -3
          17 May 2023
          For a long time I have no hope that it will be possible to turn the army in Russia into a modern, combat-ready army, ready to challenge modern realities. It's not ours.

          am Who would you like to invite or hire? sad This is the first time I see such a comment. On the contrary, many peoples of the world consider Russians to be born warriors (Chinese, Germans...). Yes, the Russian authorities often made mistakes, but they also learned from them through blood and broken faces, and then the enemy no longer knew mercy.
          1. 0
            18 May 2023
            You don't need to hire strangers. You can find talents among your own, only our military-political leadership is not interested in such talents; Therefore, the way out of the impasse is to replace this very guide.
        11. -7
          17 May 2023
          this is written by a traitor and probably not a very smart person, and the whole army is here and why publish this nonsense at all. Well, if you don’t like our Russian army, find another one that, as this figure writes, can challenge modern realities. can write like that.
        12. -2
          17 May 2023
          It's not ours.
          Definitely not yours.
          Give up and whine yours.
          And ours is to gather courage and think with your head.
          1. 0
            18 May 2023
            You can gather a lot and think, and all in vain, since orders are given by the bosses, so it’s not for us to think, but for the military-political leadership of the country.
        13. +1
          23 May 2023
          Quote from iran
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          The author missed the obvious. Command incompetence


          Not only incompetent commanders. The entire army turned out to be completely incompetent and unprepared for modern conflicts.
          All the same rake that the Russian army stepped on in the First World War, in the Finnish War, and then the Second World War. I am already silent about the first Chechen war.

          For a long time now, I have no hope that it will be possible to turn the army in Russia into a modern, combat-ready army, ready to challenge modern realities. It's not ours. We have only beautiful parades, military bands with songs and dances, and of course thousands of films about how our partisans or soldiers smash the enemy to smithereens with their cunning and professional operations.


          The article did not draw such deep conclusions, but maybe it’s for the better, it will hang longer. But here you explain to me: why is this obvious thing that our army is not combat-ready understandable to everyone: Putin, Shoigu, Gerasimov, and all our government. But why do a lot of people on the Internet believe that now Putin will give an order and our army, trampling the Nazi reptile, will reach Kyiv and Lvov and are surprised that Putin does not give this order. And how will Putin give this order if the army is small. Mobilization is needed or sent to the front from law enforcement agencies. Your hope and support. Or conscripts, at least they don’t need equipment. And the mobilized to put on shoes and send into battle not only with Kalash, but with artillery and tanks, they still need to be taught. And you need them, to win, at least a million. In the meantime, we will reach Lviv, there will be such losses! The people will curse. And they will have losses. The whole world will curse both him and the Russian people, and it is not a fact that this victory will be final and irrevocable. So he sits and pretends that nothing is happening.
      2. +19
        17 May 2023
        I agree about incompetence. War does not forgive mistakes. And one cannot be relaxed when the enemy is close, cunning and equipped with the most modern weapons.

        I believe in the version that our pilots were shot down by an air defense system from an ambush. But this operation is on the verge of a foul, the enemy just got lucky. Pull the complexes as close as possible, guard ...

        But the attack of the enemy was a success with full connivance on our part. Unfortunately.
        Eternal memory to pilots-heroes!
        1. +52
          17 May 2023
          I agree about incompetence. War does not forgive mistakes...

          The modern Russian Army is a replica of our society. Management in the Army is a copy of management in the State: incompetence - impunity - irresponsibility - permissiveness.
          It all started with - "she drowned." It continued - "the retirement age will not increase", "the constitution will not change." It was fixed - "we do not abandon our own."
          1. +23
            17 May 2023
            Quote: AA17
            The modern Russian Army is a replica of our society. Management in the Army is a copy of management in the State: incompetence - impunity - irresponsibility - permissiveness.


            I completely agree. You can paint over rotten paint and hang decorations only up to a certain point - until the war starts. Then the paint peels off, the decorations fall and all the rot comes out. Imagine a rotten abscess, which instead of being treated is painted over. From the outside, everything is fine, but inside everything rots. And when you need to mobilize the body for some super-heavy task, the body barely moves because it is rotten from the inside.
          2. RGB
            +12
            17 May 2023
            How right you are in your words! One bitterness in the soul, not only for our army, but for the whole country. Wherever you look, and wherever there is a state budget, everywhere cut and corruption.
            1. +3
              18 May 2023
              And I can name the reason for this mess - this is the irremovability of power.
          3. +3
            17 May 2023
            It was fixed - "we do not abandon our own."
            It remains only to decide who is theirs. Is Abramovich yours or someone else's? How much money did he throw in to help the outskirts? And how much did he transfer to Russia? How about the other faces on the Forbes list? Although Akhidzhakova is not on the list, she also helped the outskirts. Have we decided on strangers by depriving them of Russian citizenship, and therefore deprived of all rights in Russia? It seems that they imposed a ban on leaving for the period of NWO. Or maybe let the accomplices leave on their own, and do not conduct partisan work here? Such people can be deprived of citizenship for ten years, and then look at how they behaved abroad. Did they work against Russia?
            1. +14
              17 May 2023
              Chubais, now, has issued Israeli citizenship - now his surname is Sagal. For whom did he work here for so many years, leading, among other things, the presidential administration? And what did the competent authorities do?
              1. +8
                17 May 2023
                The competent authorities were created, just the same, under the leadership of Chubais, who was watching from the Freemasons. They were and are engaged in the protection of the existing system, created by him, including. And no where did he run, from whom and why? Quietly left, having completed the task. As labeled, in due time.
          4. +6
            17 May 2023
            I fully support it, until the critical moment has come, it's still "closed" like. But at the beginning of the "war" of the NWO, everything appears on the surface and all the window dressing comes out sideways. The leadership apparently reassures itself that the people do not see and do not understand anything, but in vain. People see everything, except for those who are under the influence of TV.
            1. +3
              17 May 2023
              See? And it will give any result? All steam will go into the keyboard.
        2. +12
          17 May 2023
          "But this operation is on the verge of a foul, the enemy just got lucky"
          once luck, twice luck, but you also need skill, as Generalissimo Suvorov said, and he knew a lot about this business. Kursk and Belgorod, Engels and Moscow, didn’t convince you of anything?
          1. RGB
            +13
            17 May 2023
            To be honest, I won’t be surprised if they again carry out the same operation (on the verge of a foul) and they will succeed again.
        3. +5
          17 May 2023
          Entry into the Bryansk region. chiki with weapons, who imagine themselves to be liberators, who shot civilians with impunity, says that pulling up the border, which is easy to cross, is not on the verge of a foul.
        4. -2
          17 May 2023
          You all forget that all the best intelligence services in the world work for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, all the most technically equipped intelligence services, all information about our movements is known to the enemy before the commander of our regiment or brigade.
      3. +26
        17 May 2023
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        organize an air defense ambush without betrayal

        It is possible without betrayal. We have so much incompetence and gouging that the traitors never dreamed of. It was also necessary to guess to fly along the same route, and even with electronic warfare helicopters, which are connected to space reconnaissance equipment like light bulbs. Therefore, it is not surprising that EW helicopters unmasked a permanent route, and there is no difficulty in secretly pushing a mobile air defense system. Then a signal is given from an agent who observes the takeoff and landing of our planes in the area of ​​​​the airfield and the aircraft goes straight into the trap. And for sure, the REBs over the territory of Bryansk did not even turn on their complex. Like flying over our own.
        1. -7
          17 May 2023
          Quote: Vita VKO
          We have so much incompetence and gouging that the traitors never dreamed of. It should have been guessed to fly along the same route,

          Nothing special here, it happens to everyone. The famous Yugoslav F-117 was also caught.
          1. RGB
            +12
            17 May 2023
            The death of 9 pilots and the loss of 4 cars is nothing special ?!
            1. +2
              17 May 2023
              Quote from RVA
              The death of 9 pilots and the loss of 4 cars is nothing special ?!

              Naturally.

              Frankly, I'm annoyed by this feature of the pilots. Look, everyone's favorite Prigozhin tells on his TV that he loses 100 people a day on a narrow and secondary sector of the front. It is very convenient that Prigogine is not the Russian Federation, which does not bear losses.

              Are pilots better than infantry in some way? The losses of the American 8VA in 43-45 are about the same as the American losses on land from Normandy and beyond.
              1. +8
                17 May 2023
                Quote: Negro
                Frankly, I'm annoyed by this feature of the pilots. Look, everyone's favorite Prigozhin tells on his TV that he loses 100 people a day on a narrow and secondary sector of the front. It is very convenient that Prigogine is not the Russian Federation, which does not bear losses.

                In general, learning to operate the SU-35 and the loss of a car worth 2 billion, and the loss of a prisoner with a Kalash are two different things.
                1. -5
                  17 May 2023
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Different things

                  1. All lives matter.
                  2. Currently, there is a shortage of assault infantry and no shortage of pilots. Most likely they will not be useful at all in such quantities. So, in principle, it is reasonable to transfer them to the infantry and send them to Artyomovsk.
                  1. +7
                    17 May 2023
                    Quote: Negro
                    and no shortage of pilots.

                    Pretty strange statement. If there is no shortage of pilots, then there is a shortage of aircraft.
                    1. 0
                      18 May 2023
                      Pretty strange statement. If there is no shortage of pilots, then there is a shortage of aircraft.


                      Your opponent has a lack of intelligence, but with an excess of envy. request
                  2. 0
                    18 May 2023
                    The Negro writer wrote:
                    It is very convenient that Prigogine is not the Russian Federation, which does not bear losses.

                    That is, the RF has no losses? More than a year of fighting without loss? Only Wagner's losses? I'll just say - I've never seen such stupid statements.
        2. +4
          17 May 2023
          Quote: Vita VKO
          and even with electronic warfare helicopters, which are connected to space reconnaissance equipment like light bulbs.

          What kind of funds?

          Quote: Vita VKO
          And for sure, the REBs over the territory of Bryansk did not even turn on their complex. Like flying over our own.

          The flight task sets the boundary for the beginning and end of jamming.
          1. 0
            17 May 2023
            But such a question, as to the specialist.
            Could this be?
            In addition, it personally doesn’t fit in my head how Russian air defense crews can shoot down FOUR of their targets with working “friend or foe” defendants. And in the same way, the option that all of our aircraft flew with transponders turned off does not fit into my head.


            The defendants also emit radiation, which can be used to detect the aircraft. Or is it a fraction of a second?
            1. +2
              17 May 2023
              Quote: Arzt
              But such a question, as to the specialist.
              Could this be?

              In the "strange war" everything is possible. And blocking the capture of "friends" is easily turned off.

              Quote: Arzt
              The defendants also emit radiation, which can be used to detect the aircraft. Or is it a fraction of a second?

              The interrogator emits a coded signal in a strictly defined direction, for this it is associated with a radar station. Thus, if the code is requested, then the radar has already determined the coordinates of the aircraft. The responder also directs the response in a certain direction.
              And so, they try to make the radiation of the interrogator / responder as less noticeable as possible.
        3. +1
          18 May 2023
          Then a signal is given from an agent who observes the takeoff and landing of our planes in the area of ​​​​the airfield and the aircraft goes straight into the trap.

          This is not necessary from the word "in general" - the author explained in the article that with constant monitoring of the airfields of the Russian Federation from orbit by satellites of NATO countries, no spies and intelligence officers near our airfields are simply needed!
          This is an extra spoke in the chariot, a relic of pre-satellite times.
      4. +23
        17 May 2023
        The author missed the obvious - those who need it already know what it was. In the wreckage of aircraft and helicopters, there are striking elements of the rocket. I think they have already been identified.
      5. AAK
        +2
        17 May 2023
        Still, I am inclined to the version of Bandera's air defense and the incompetence of our aviation command. This section of the NWO is not a "combat" type of Artyomovsk, Maryinka, etc., flights are mostly scheduled, routes are mostly standard, all this is easily "read" according to optical, radar and radio intelligence. Therefore, having tracked, for example, for a week, the flight schedule and having approximately determined the types of air targets, Bandera decided to ambush the air defense in the so-called. duck hunting style. Air defense - most likely "beeches", moved out at night to points along the border, were in the "standby" mode of the radar only with the ACS turned on, detected sorties - were put on alert and the installations fired at the nearest targets. The only question is about the Su-34, in which the pilots are in a titanium capsule that can withstand a direct hit by a 20mm projectile, and the capsule, EMNIP, shoots back in the event of a missile hit ... in general, somehow all this is strange
        Yes, a small remark about the photo in the article. In the Russian complexes S-300, EMNIP, PU ZUR, not on KrAZ vehicles, as in the picture, so the photo is most likely of the dill complex.
        1. +2
          17 May 2023
          Quote: AAK
          Su-34, in which the pilots are in a titanium capsule that can withstand a direct hit by a 20mm projectile, and the capsule, EMNIP, fires back in the event of a missile hit

          -ready-made striking elements are sewn and the capsule, and the cockpit even more so.
          There speed gre 1200 m/s-1700 m/s
          Ek=m*V^2/ 2
          - if the crew is seriously injured or killed, then no one will pull the loop / button will not press, and there is no automatic shooting
          1. +1
            17 May 2023
            The capsule does not shoot back. It seems that of the serial aircraft, only the F-111 was equipped with an ejection cockpit. And then it quickly became clear that the idea was so-so
            1. +1
              17 May 2023
              B-1 B_""""""
        2. +3
          17 May 2023
          Quote: AAK
          The only question is about the Su-34, in which the pilots are in a titanium capsule that can withstand a direct hit by a 20mm projectile, and the capsule, EMNIP, shoots back in the event of a missile hit ... in general, somehow all this is strange

          It is strange if you do not know that the armored capsule is not a capsule, but an armored trough with a simple glazing of the lantern.
      6. +12
        17 May 2023
        What kind of competence can we talk about when the Air Force is "ruled" by an infantryman, they are smashed as an unnecessary air defense structure of the SV, when the same infantryman, in fact, "ground" the Airborne Forces, if the Ministry of Defense is an "effective manager, civil engineer", practically, not a single minister does not have a specialized education and any significant merits and achievements. When random people are in power, and personnel policy is built on the basis of nepotism, personal loyalty and crime, completely without regard to professional and business qualities and at least some practical achievements, with complete irresponsibility and inviolability for the results of their activities, with complete permissiveness. People who, throughout their conscious working life, betrayed and destroyed their once great power for the sake of their petty-bourgeois, greedy and other ambitions, who were only engaged in extracting profit from these territories, selling off the heritage, achievements and results of the work of the entire Soviet people, who built an inherited estate society with diametrically different ideological and cultural-moral principles, living in different habitats and according to different laws. So they won’t and they simply can’t change in their declining years, suddenly kindle with love and patriotism for the territory and the people on it, who have been robbed and despised all their lives, who have been cynically lied to and who have been feared. And more often as a result, banal incompetence, lack of professionalism, plus irresponsibility.
      7. +1
        17 May 2023
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        The author missed the obvious. Command incompetence. Because even without betrayal, organizing an air defense ambush, and even with long-range missiles, flying along the same route, at the same height, for planes and helicopters, this is AZ!
        And according to various reports, such as FB, idiocy in terms of heights and routes not only exists, but flourishes!

        I already wrote, but I repeat: The main problem is that we were caught on the pattern of actions! We have always won wars and battles before in analysis! And we caught the enemy in the actions expected from him! At the same time, all the main actions of our troops in battles were a surprise for the enemy.
        Even taking into account all of the above in the article and from me, 100% of the tests of our strength, this is the human factor at various levels.
      8. +1
        18 May 2023
        We urgently need to take up the purge of the ranks in the Moscow Region, because there has recently been a dominance of "ceremonial" generals who are not able to think either tactically or strategically, most of them are also not capable of effectively managing units, but on the other hand, the struggle for occupied seats is thriving there and corruption in the higher echelons of power of the Ministry of Defense, it would be time to restore order in our army and you need to start from the head, from the Ministry of Defense.
    2. +8
      17 May 2023
      Conclusions are normal. The black cloak made a mess, which means he must put the "red pencils" in the box and begin to understand the adult. Nothing is partial.
      1. +22
        17 May 2023
        Quote: bandabas
        Black cloak brewed porridge

        And lost interest in her.

        The old scourge of not finishing a big job that has been started is haunting one. And after him and all the others. I just want to suggest: if you start, win. But a bad dancer always gets in the way. A psychologist would immediately throw a lot of possible options.
        Burnt out. Lack of motivation. Weak self-organization skills Unrealistic plan. Or what else
        worse - there is no clear goal and what will the end result be?
        Does not feel emotional uplift when performing a task ...

        Sigmund Freud has a beautiful metaphor for this. The horse (subconscious, unconscious problems) does everything he needs, completely ignoring the rider, and the rider (consciousness) is busy diligently explaining to himself and others how he leads the horse.
    3. +5
      17 May 2023
      There are already a lot of questions for MO already in the second code, but there are no answers ...
      And not only answers, but also some significant and qualitative changes in the MO ...
    4. 0
      20 May 2023
      According to the statement in the cart of the blogger "Fighterbomber" in the NWO zone, the identification system does not work for us from the word at all.
  2. +34
    17 May 2023
    To the dead pilots - Eternal memory.
    It is also a pity for the lost equipment, we don’t have so many of them.
    And the saddest thing is the remaining questions and lack of prospects.

    PS: when it all started more than a year ago, on the very first day, I thought: either ours all really calculated well, or a full polar fluffy animal is waiting for us. No one will forgive us for losing. But... It's been almost a year and a half and... And the further, the sadder.
    1. AUL
      +9
      17 May 2023
      Quote: Anton Temnukhin
      No one will forgive us for losing.

      That is why I am increasingly afraid of the use of tactical nuclear weapons, because then the process will go haywire, it will become uncontrollable.
      1. -17
        17 May 2023
        TNW will decide everything, it's high time! The process will end in victory.
        1. +3
          17 May 2023
          What is victory under radioactive ash? Outskirts is a historical territory of Russia! Do you propose to abandon your territory with nuclear weapons?
          1. -6
            17 May 2023
            Quote: North Caucasus
            What is victory under radioactive ash? Outskirts is a historical territory of Russia! Do you propose to abandon your territory with nuclear weapons?

            No. We offer our clean historical territory to give to Nate. How else?
        2. +4
          17 May 2023
          TNW won't solve anything. These are just "big bombs" in terms of effectiveness, not much different from powerful ODABs. Given the sparse formations of the enemy troops, this is a waste of valuable ammunition.
          If we are to use nuclear weapons, then immediately strategic and not by troops, but by cities.
          But, unfortunately, we "can't go"
          1. +11
            17 May 2023
            Are you impatient to start a global nuclear conflict?
            1. -5
              17 May 2023
              Are you impatient to start a global nuclear conflict?

              And it is possible that this is the only way to complete this "SBO". The boiler is constantly heated. In half a year, missiles and aircraft will be given, and the affected area will expand to 500 km deep into our territory. What can we expect when everything in our country turns into Bakhmut-Marinka? And then, where does such an idea come from "global"? Do you think someone wants to intervene with the nucleus and get their portion?
              1. +4
                17 May 2023
                A global nuclear conflict is when most of the existing strategic nuclear forces are involved. For this, the conflict between the Russian Federation and the United States as countries that have 95 percent of the world's nuclear arsenal is enough. Therefore, launching a couple of missiles at the USA - in order to strike at NY and LA, for example, besiege p @ ndos - this is utter nonsense. Because in return you can get an answer with the whole arsenal. To do the same for London... In principle, I think the result will be the same - only not as a response to an attack, but for preventive purposes. You never know what comes into the head of these crazy Russians after the strike on London) And in the global exchange, the Russian Federation loses more - simply due to the greater concentration of the population and urbanization
                1. -4
                  17 May 2023
                  Why in the USA, when there is Kyiv, Kharkov, Dnepioaeetrovsk, Poltava and others?
                2. man
                  +1
                  17 May 2023
                  To do the same for London... In principle, I think the result will be the same - only not as a response to an attack, but for preventive purposes. You never know what comes into the head of these crazy Russians after the strike on London)
                  let's say our chief has such an impeccable reputation as a patient that it wouldn't hurt to add a little crazy to him! And then what do you propose?
                  Where is the exit? What to do? Waiting for the end of the Ukrainians is stupid, they will be replaced by regular NATO troops armed with the most modern weapons, including aircraft.
          2. -4
            17 May 2023
            Why use tactical nuclear weapons against the troops? It is necessary to destroy all checkpoints near the border, all roads, there must be a continuous radioactive field so that nothing else is brought for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. We still don’t need the western territories - it’s not our people who live there. Let there be an exclusion zone between the worlds for a couple of decades.
            You can even not destroy everything, but the main ones with the proviso that if something is trampled through other roads, it will be the same there. And yes, the wind must blow from the East.
          3. -3
            17 May 2023
            The idea is correct, but only partly.
            TNW - it is for finishing off pockets of resistance, and not for the strategic defeat of the enemy. But to apply it in Europe is a trigger for launching a limited nuclear war in Europe, in which the United States is seeking to exchange the foreground (NATO's European theater of operations) for our strategic potential, weakening it by 90% or more.
            Therefore, the use of nuclear weapons should be preceded by two measures:
            1) Deployment of strategic nuclear forces to reduce the ability to prevent and intercept them.
            2) Carrying out covert mobilization to form occupation units (landwehr) to carry out denazification and maintain order in the newly acquired territories.
            Both of these activities are extremely difficult to carry out covertly. However, there are opportunities for their partial implementation with subsequent completion in the course of operations.
            This is done most simply by deploying two ocean-going SSBN constellations. A full salvo of two Boreas is enough:
            1) To immobilize enemy strike groups
            2) Destruction of the critical infrastructure of a hostile state
            3) Introducing panic into the political leadership and serious restraints in NATO military plans for a limited nuclear war in Europe
            This will be followed by the capture of key enemy targets, the finishing off of combat-ready but immobilized enemy groups (including with the use of tactical nuclear weapons) and the introduction of the occupation regime of sanitation and denazification.
            1. +2
              18 May 2023
              We are already talking about nuclear war. Quite "the roof went" for people. Has the propaganda confused your brains so much? Don't you understand that it is our country that will suffer the heaviest losses in this case?
          4. +1
            17 May 2023
            If we are to use nuclear weapons, then immediately strategic and not by troops, but by cities.
            But to that Unfortunately we can't go
            Unfortunately??? belay
            1. -6
              18 May 2023
              It's simple.
              An ultimatum is being put forward to Ukraine - complete disarmament (Soviet weapons are returned to us, let Western ones be returned to their owners), the abolition of the armed forces (only the National Guard remains with equipment no heavier than armored personnel carriers and without artillery and aviation), fixing the non-bloc status and military neutrality in the constitution, cleansing of its presence of parts new regions of Russia. The procedures are carried out under the control of Russia. Domestic policy, economic policy - as they want, at their own discretion. We don't need them.

              After they reject the ultimatum. War is officially declared on Ukraine. A statement is made inviting foreign diplomats and civilians to leave the cities. Given 2 days.
              After that, Kiev, Kharkov, Chernigov, Sumy, Poltava, Cherkassy, ​​Dnepropetrovsk, Nikolaev, Odessa, Vinnitsa, Zhitomir, Khmelnitsky are destroyed by nuclear weapons.
              Troops near the LBS are fighting with conventional weapons (this is our territory), the cities of Western Ukraine are fighting with conventional weapons (in order to avoid claims from Western countries about environmental damage).
              Next, an occupational police operation is carried out to fulfill the conditions of the ultimatum. Then the troops are withdrawn.
              Control over further execution is carried out from the air. Attempts to import weapons or restore industry (everything except agricultural and pipes) are bombed out.
              Citizens and other residents of Ukraine, their entrepreneurs, are subject to a complete ban on entry into the Russian Federation and conducting economic activities / business here.
              All
              1. +1
                18 May 2023
                After that, Kiev, Kharkov, Chernigov, Sumy, Poltava, Cherkassy, ​​Dnepropetrovsk, Nikolaev, Odessa, Vinnitsa, Zhitomir, Khmelnitsky are destroyed by nuclear weapons.

                How old are you?
                1. 0
                  18 May 2023
                  Why are you interested in?

                  The comment carries a semantic load
                  1. +1
                    19 May 2023
                    Why are you interested in?

                    I don't believe a grown man can write this.
                    1. -2
                      19 May 2023
                      And the fact that the operation to seize a vast territory with an embittered hostile population, a large and well-armed army (at that time one air defense at that time was quantitatively and qualitatively superior to the air defense of Germany and France combined), with the help of a 100th contingent, they could plan and begin to implement adults who are mentally healthy and have an IQ above 50, do you believe?
                      In fact, the fact that our troops in such conditions managed to occupy and hold the territories that we now occupy is a miracle. The miracle of heroism and military art of our troops. And for this honor and glory to them.

                      Secondly, as everything goes, everything will still end in nuclear strikes, only not in a controlled version, as I wrote, but in an emergency-chaotic, in much worse military-political conditions. Well, or a snarky drain and "eternal peace" for a couple of years + pay and repent.
                      Thirdly, since the end of the 80s, it was extremely clear to me that a collision with Hohland was inevitable. And personally, I would not give them even 2 days to evacuate, but would strike right away - it would be nice to cut the hohlyatsky trash by 20-30 million. But, okay, politics, all sorts of politeness, let them live there. Bye
                      1. +1
                        19 May 2023
                        could have been planned and started by adults, mentally healthy and with an IQ above 50, do you believe?

                        Their IQ has nothing to do with your age or your posts.
                        Yes, and a year ago you had no complaints against them. Remind?
                        Quote: El Barto
                        There is an old joke on this subject:
                        Two Soviet tank officers are sitting in the Pas de Calais, drinking beer. One asks:
                        - Have you heard who won the information war?
                        - The second (pulling cotton wool out of his ears): - What?

                        Or
                        Quote: El Barto
                        There is no "Ukrainian wall". There is a large Ukrainian heap of manure. Through which you have to pass, crushing thousands of dung beetles from the APU and other national bahts.
                        Let's pass.

                        Or
                        Quote: El Barto
                        Actually, they have nothing more to supply there - Abrams 61 tons, the second Leoperd 70 tons. Not for this theater at all. There is nothing to say about British trash.

                        or here
                        Quote: El Barto
                        Citizens, stop with alarmism already. Just be aware of the situation. It's not 1942 and the Hohls didn't start Operation Blau. The correct analogy is 1945, where there were German offensives (quite successful) in Pomerania, near Bautzen and at Balaton.
                        It's just convulsions on the part of hohls. When (not if, but when) the forces gathered for these offensives run out, they will have nothing left. With predictable results.

                        And there is no need to accuse our generals of "parsegovism". This is not so, and the situation is not the same. No one will seriously say that the situation at Balaton or Bautzen was a disaster for the Red Army? Same here.

                        So what is it? Now all the arrogance has gone, and out of fear of possible consequences that may be personal for you (for example, that you will have to go to war yourself, and this is not the same as fighting on the Internet), did you start screaming about nuclear weapons? At the same time, not realizing that this would not improve the situation, but worsen it, just as they did not understand the realities of what was happening before, publishing such messages.
                        PS
                        it would be nice to cut the hohlyatsky trash by 20-30 million. But, okay, politics, all sorts of politeness, let them live there. Bye

                        People like you are the main reason for Russia's failures in all areas.
                        anyway, everything will end with nuclear strikes

                        The Vietnam War did not end with nuclear strikes. And this one won't end.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. 0
                        19 May 2023
                        then you can see what I wrote to all sorts of hat throwers about the hohlyatsky air defense, that you will have to fight, in fact, without aviation.

                        How this fact confused you can be seen from the messages that I cited.
                        I will not comment on the rest of the dirt. You only reinforced my opinion that it is desirable to isolate you. People like you are the main reason for Russia's failures in all areas.
                        You don't have to bother answering. Totally expensive.
                      4. -4
                        21 May 2023
                        You and I have different views on Russia and its successes and failures.
                        Less masturbate to all sorts of Anglo-Saxon bastards.
                        And we here in Russia will create our own Juche-Songun only Russian
                      5. -1
                        19 May 2023
                        The term "hohls" naturally does not mean ethnic Ukrainians, of whom we have many, and most of whom are good citizens of Russia and brave soldiers in the RF Armed Forces.
                        No, "hohls" are citizens and other residents of an enemy country called "Ukraine" regardless of their ethnicity
      2. man
        -10
        17 May 2023
        That is why I am increasingly afraid of the use of tactical nuclear weapons, because then the process will go haywire, it will become uncontrollable.
        Therefore, it is necessary to use not tactical, but strategic nuclear weapons, and not against the unfortunate Ukrainians, but against England. A little, 1-2, and almost everything else, should be directed to the United States. We simply have no other choice! Our resources are simply incomparable with Western ones, but we have no right to lose!!! I will not explain what a slave "life" we will have, and the rest of the world (including Ukraine) in the event of our defeat, can you imagine, if not fools! Only at least a trial use of the Strategic Missile Forces can stop the states!
        Well, I don’t believe that these fat cattle are capable of risking an answer !!!
        1. +10
          17 May 2023
          Quote: mann
          We just have no other choice! Our resources are simply incomparable with Western ones, but we have no right to lose!!! I will not explain what a slave "life" we will have, and the rest of the world (including Ukraine) in the event of our defeat, can you imagine, if not fools!

          1. If life is not sweet for you, then you can solve this issue on your own, without affecting the others who do not want to turn into nuclear ashes ..
          2. And what will life be like? let's explain, do not be shy, what kind of life the whole world will have - point by point .. 1,2,3?
          1. man
            -7
            17 May 2023
            If life is not sweet for you, then you can solve this issue on your own, without affecting the others who do not want to turn into nuclear ashes ..
            My proposal is precisely to stop the war, but at the same time to sacrifice not the Ukrainians, but the British.
            I am sure that the states will not dare to retaliate because of England, leeches do not have eggs. They will draw the right conclusions, stop supplying weapons to Ukraine, and the Ukrainians and I will stop killing each other, finally.
            Why exactly England, I hope you understand?
            1. +3
              18 May 2023
              The British have their own nuclear weapons and 100% they will answer. And with a high probability, NATO will also respond.
          2. man
            -5
            17 May 2023
            And what will life be like? let's explain, do not be shy, what kind of life the whole world will have - point by point .. 1,2,3?
            I looked at your last comments, you are not stupid at all, it's just "Katz offers to surrender." Therefore, let's not demagogy, you see how the United States treats even its closest allies, especially Germany, it's easy to guess what awaits the rest, including Ukraine.
            1. +4
              17 May 2023
              Quote: mann
              just "Katz offers to surrender." Therefore, let's not demagogy, you see how the United States treats even its closest allies, especially Germany, it's easy to guess what awaits the rest, including Ukraine.

              yes, I see how they treat it like a hechemon ... but I don’t see how it can really be changed today in case of victory and not victory .. the size of the situation - "Ukraine" is too small to solve this issue - for the whole world. taking into account the fact that the general concept of the world in any scenario remains - capitalist, where global capitalists rule.
              do I propose to surrender .. no, I don’t offer .. just take it and give up, there’s no way .. I don’t see a normal way out of the current situation .. even the occupation of the entire territory of Ukraine, a very conditional victory, if you think about how much strength for this is necessary and what to do with it later ... if you hit England, in 1x England also has nuclear weapons, and in 2x it is an incredible risk of a nuclear war, in which our country most likely will not either .. I don’t think that Ukraine is worth in order to go all-in like that .. The USSR didn’t even go for it for the sake of dominating the world, but here Ukraine ... By the way, our nuclear weapons are fulfilling their role, otherwise NATO tanks or at least the UN "...
              1. man
                +4
                18 May 2023
                I don't see a normal way out of the current situation.
                I also... request But that's no reason not to look for it...
                1. +1
                  18 May 2023
                  There are currently two exits.
                  First: drag the current situation indefinitely until one of the parties runs out of steam and goes to the world. And it is desirable that it be Ukraine.
                  Second: shameful, i.e. to stop the NWO ourselves, but the country's reputational and economic losses will be huge.
                  And such an option as our victory is not real at all now. Honestly, this option was not real from the very beginning. I think my grandfather himself already understood this. It got to him.
            2. +3
              17 May 2023
              Well, if you saw my posts, where did you see signs of the behavior of the notorious Katz?
              Unfortunately, the situation is making its own adjustments and restraint, a sober view of things is beginning to transform society into ... Katz and let him stigmatize everyone
              As for the forecast of that very “slavery and extermination”, which you and many others argue here. Well, stop it already, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and other countries through which the armored skating rink of American democracy swept. Cities have not been wiped off the face of the earth, the population has not been exterminated (not to be confused with partial destruction during hostilities and their bandits-kami in the struggle for power), countries have not broken up into smaller principalities, are not under official protectorate, do not pay reparations and other official tribute, well, and many other things so terrible: full, stoves, and other cannibalism.
              And the last thing, so as not to get into further controversy.
              While the Russian Federation has nuclear weapons. But it exists and is not going anywhere. While it is no one (well, except for VO commentators laughing ) in their right mind will not send their troops to seize our territory.
              The country's leadership of the main democrat and his "satellites" are well aware of this and therefore chose another way - to strangle the economy. Moreover, there is a more recent example of success.
              By the way. The tendency of leaders of countries to use the same successful technique in achieving their geopolitical goals is very well traced.
              Our muddied Crimea 2 ... and OPZHA
              They are the collapse of the USSR 2 .... and there is also no result so far))
              1. man
                -1
                17 May 2023
                As for the forecast of that very “slavery and extermination”, which you and many others argue here. Well, stop it already, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and other countries through which the armored skating rink of American democracy swept. Cities have not been wiped off the face of the earth, the population has not been exterminated (not to be confused with partial destruction during hostilities and their bandits-kami in the struggle for power), countries have not broken up into smaller principalities, are not under official protectorate, do not pay reparations and other official tribute, well, and many other things so terrible: full, stoves, and other cannibalism.
                the more time passes, the more likely the use of these "charms" increases, the states become impudent by leaps and bounds. We'll wait for the liberals to come to power, these nuclear weapons will generally be scrapped. Time works for them, we are gradually losing our youth
          3. -6
            17 May 2023
            let's explain, do not be shy, what kind of life the whole world will have - point by point .. 1,2,3?

            Well, you are one of those who "drank Bavarian" if fascism had not been defeated. It is useless for you to explain even point by point.
            1. +2
              17 May 2023
              and what is the problem with telling how the world will live, or rather, how its life will change if the Russian Federation does not win the NWO? And what about Bavarian? by the way, it is still on sale now and sometimes I drink it, in the presence of a victory over fascism .. maybe the problem is that it is impossible to formulate what exactly will change in the world? because, in my opinion, nothing good will happen for the Russian Federation, but for the whole world, NOTHING will change.
              1. man
                -7
                17 May 2023
                for the whole world - NOTHING will change.
                Still, we decided to continue playing the idiot. Your right.
                EVERYTHING will gradually change for the world! He will turn into a sultan's harem, where there will be beloved wives in the face of individual Western countries and unloved ones in the face of the rest. The unloved ones will supply the sultan with goods and resources at prices determined by the sultan.
                1. +4
                  17 May 2023
                  Quote: mann
                  Still, we decided to continue playing the idiot. Your right.
                  EVERYTHING will gradually change for the world! He will turn into a sultan's harem, where there will be beloved wives in the face of individual Western countries and unloved ones in the face of the rest. The unloved ones will supply the sultan with goods and resources at prices determined by the sultan.

                  and now isn't it? in short..
                  1. man
                    +2
                    17 May 2023
                    and now isn't it? in short..
                    You again ... I remember the second half of the 80s. The liberals told us: "In the USSR, like everywhere else, there are drug addicts, bureaucrats, bandits, fallen women, etc."
                    Yes, all this really happened in the USSR, but liberals slyly "forgot" to talk about the prevalence of these phenomena! In the USSR, they were minuscule in comparison!
                    1. +1
                      18 May 2023
                      yes, it was in the USSR .. but this situation is not analogous, since the Anglo-Saxons and their money are real, today they control the world and Ukraine will not control it less .. or you can name the countries that "sent" them and did not provide resources that did they really need it? Or are there many countries in the world that are absolutely independent of them? or many countries do not use the same dollar, at least? they already control the whole world. It was the USSR that fought them for its influence in the world .. not the Russian Federation .. but the USSR has long been gone ... so they "took" the world as the USSR was gone, and for a long time .. and you are all about the world concept in which - already 30 years there is no second pole, you say..and from Ukraine-why will it appear? because - figuratively, "Laos", what will understand after Ukraine that the second pole will appear? what by the way-communist? or what will be offered to associates? You see, between wanting and being able, there is usually a big difference .. I understand that we were born to make a fairy tale come true, but let's talk about reality ..
              2. +2
                17 May 2023
                Quote: 2 level advisor
                and what is the problem with telling how the world will live, or rather, how its life will change if the Russian Federation does not win the NWO? And what about Bavarian? by the way, it is still on sale now and sometimes I drink it, in the presence of a victory over fascism .. maybe the problem is that it is impossible to formulate what exactly will change in the world? because, in my opinion, nothing good will happen for the Russian Federation, but for the whole world, NOTHING will change.
                Well, "they" cannot do it without turbo-patriotic demagogy on the verge of hysteria!
          4. +1
            17 May 2023
            1. If life is not sweet for you, then you can solve this issue on your own, without affecting the others who do not want to turn into nuclear ashes ..
            2. And what will life be like? let's explain, do not be shy, what kind of life the whole world will have - point by point .. 1,2,3?
            good
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. +4
          17 May 2023
          Looks like spring is coming to an end. And sick psychopaths, eager to see the world in nuclear fire, are not getting smaller, strange request
          Does that mean we can't lose?
          Well, you are now a winner in life, it turns out))
          Come on, winner, at least describe your yard, how everything is clean and well-organized there, especially the elevators in the house and the walls in the entrances. After all, they are all probably without a single inscription left by primitive cubs, simply because their parents do not engage in their elementary education. Probably because they teach them patriotism, in which they want to see the world on fire
          1. +8
            17 May 2023
            Elderberry in the garden, and uncle in Kiev. All utilities are planted with "ours and ours", regularly jacking up prices. It is only in Turkey that Gazprom allowed consumers not to pay this year. In Russia, he did not even offer penny discounts.
          2. 0
            17 May 2023
            Come on, winner, describe at least your yard

            Another slave of the Ukrainian TV who firmly believes in fairy tales about toilet bowls and so on.
          3. +3
            17 May 2023
            I have six months since the entrance was overhauled. So everything is modest, but neat. Double-glazed windows were inserted into the entrance windows. And the glazing of the entrance group was restored. The elevators were not changed, although I would be glad if they replaced them with otis. And the elevators and walls in the entrance were without inscriptions even before the repair. And in the yard I have greenery and a playground
        4. +3
          17 May 2023
          The trial use of ICBMs is a technically difficult way to commit suicide. The launch of five ICBMs for edifying purposes will serve as a trigger for a full-scale retaliatory strike
          1. -1
            17 May 2023
            Suicide is the use of tactical nuclear weapons in Europe, the rest is very variable.
          2. man
            -2
            17 May 2023
            The trial use of ICBMs is a technically difficult way to commit suicide. The launch of five ICBMs for edifying purposes will serve as a trigger for a full-scale retaliatory strike
            Do you think I'm delighted with my own proposal to kill people, and even in this way? I'm writing thisbecause I see no other way! You'll have to take a chance! If you have another way out, then speak out
        5. -3
          17 May 2023
          Right, but that's what a limited nuclear war in Europe is all about.
          At the same time, there is an almost complete destruction of the Armed Forces of the European countries of NATO and their infrastructure in exchange for knocking out 90% of our strategic nuclear forces with the US strategic nuclear forces practically untouched.
          Therefore:
          1) Covert deployment of strategic nuclear forces (as far as possible).
          2) A strike from two oceans on bridges, dams, turbine halls, etc. with a full salvo of two Boreas (the United States does not decide on a nuclear war if they see that they missed our deployment of strategic nuclear forces and that we are determined to pave our way to paradise with them).
          Further, perhaps, some pause will follow, allowing us to occupy, sanitize and integrate Ukraine into the Russian world.
          1. man
            0
            18 May 2023
            At the same time, there is an almost complete destruction of the Armed Forces of the European countries of NATO and their infrastructure in exchange for knocking out 90% of our strategic nuclear forces with the US strategic nuclear forces practically untouched.
            The arrow points to my comment, but I actually
            offered to confine himself to a strike exclusively against England and with relatively modest forces (leaving most of the strategic nuclear forces for the United States), which, in my opinion, should demonstrate to the states the Kremlin’s determination to go to the end and cool their zeal. After all, the states did not dare to attack North Korea.
            However, I am very grateful to you, you are the only one in this thread who provided an option to get out of this shit that we found ourselves in.
            1. -2
              18 May 2023
              Thank you!
              This is not exactly my idea, but just some strategic developments (in their unclassified part). It's just that high leadership likes to impose economic, diplomatic and political restrictions on these conclusions. And here the supporters of draining Russia have huge opportunities.
              I was surprised to find that on the site, supposedly patriotic, there are a lot of supporters of capitulation. Some believe that obedience can buy a lousy, but life.
              Globalists have long decided to radically reduce the population of the earth and are implementing the decisions made. So the preservation of the population of the natural pantry of mankind, which they consider Russia to be, is not included in their plans.
  3. +7
    17 May 2023
    There were two explosions one after another. One rocket hit the helicopter over the city. The second is Ant? And Shkryabino was mentioned in some messages. Error or? And yes, it has already happened that when falling, they take out the brain in search of a black box, which is not observed.
  4. +11
    17 May 2023

    Eyes around the airfields ... The gentlemen say it is completely tactless, it cannot be called a hint, that in Russia a traitor sits on a traitor and partisan detachments are at every step. They sit, you know, around airfields and watch where and who will fly

    This needs to be taken very seriously...
    In my city, three fools organized an arson attack on a mothballed SU-24... they entered the airfield, doused it with flammable liquid and set it on fire... it didn't... the damage was minor.
    There is a video ... all three are arrested ... they face a sentence of 12 to 20 years.
    And this is 3000 km from the DB line. request
    So forum users be careful, even your neighbor can turn out to be such a homegrown saboteur.
    1. +1
      17 May 2023
      Should not threaten, but get the maximum. What would be disrespectful to others. And without much hassle.
    2. +3
      17 May 2023
      They were promised that they would be paid millions, the money would be transferred over the hill, only they had to go abroad after this terrorist attack. It was reported that some girls promised 5000 hryvnias for arson, and she agreed. they went to fight. So that the number of saboteurs will grow, it will be easy to recruit them on the Internet. For example, Navalny believed and left the children for going to the demonstrations for 1 bucks. Like make a mess and run west there's a bank account waiting for you.
  5. +12
    17 May 2023
    Roman, and version number 6, that it was the aviation of one of the NATO countries was not considered? I personally would not discount it, no matter how fantastically unreal it may seem!
  6. +16
    17 May 2023
    It has been so many years since the Air Force was renamed the Aerospace Forces, and in space there is either practically nothing, or somehow it doesn’t work very well. VKS Surovikin is in command, during which strategic aviation airfields in Engels and near Ryazan, as well as near Kaluga were attacked with victims. And now - shooting at the shooting range. According to American generals, about 100 aircraft have already been lost. Isn't it too much?
    1. -5
      17 May 2023
      According to American generals, about 100 aircraft have already been lost. Isn't it too much?

      You ask your American friends questions and then, since they say such things.
      1. +2
        17 May 2023
        Do you ask your Ukrainian friends questions when Shoigu talks about the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine? It’s hard to believe that he will announce the losses of the Russian Air Force so that it can be compared with American estimates. So "the richer, the more happy."
  7. +2
    17 May 2023
    Something the third version suggests itself - and the tseshki do not take upon themselves, and the RF Ministry of Defense is silent like a fish. sad
  8. +18
    17 May 2023
    The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is expectedly silent, and I am absolutely sure that we will be waiting for the official version for a long time.
    Here, the situation with the RRC "Moscow" seems to be repeated .. Alas
    The author, having carefully analyzed all the possibilities, missed one, namely, that the strike could have been delivered "combined" and if the Ukrainians shot down two sides near the border, then the other two, already at a distance, could completely bring down our air defense, "reflecting a massive missile strike ". Something similar to how she shot down our MiG-19, after the destruction of Pauls U-2, near Sverdlovsk.
    How Ukrainians could "calculate" the routes of our aircraft. I think that for this they did not need to have their own "Shtyrlitz" in our headquarters of the air group, it seems to me that ordinary laziness could play a role here, when the flight routes of our combat aircraft and helicopters of the support group did not change from some long period. With such a development of events, the Ukrainians simply had to put forward several air defense systems into the "ambush" and wait ...
    1. -1
      17 May 2023
      Quote: svp67
      destruction of U-2 Pauls, near Sverdlovsk.

      American aviator Francis Gary Powers. The fight bomber gave birth to the post that the planes lost the other day may be friendlyfire.
      1. +5
        17 May 2023
        There is nothing surprising in this. I remember very well how in August 08 in the news on TV they proudly told how many Georgian attack aircraft our military air defense had beaten. And right there in the next story, without hesitation, they talked about the losses of our Su-25s from Georgian air defense
        1. 0
          17 May 2023
          Quote: El Barto
          There is nothing surprising in this. I remember very well how in August 08 in the news on TV they proudly told how many Georgian attack aircraft our military air defense had beaten. And right there in the next story, without hesitation, they talked about the losses of our Su-25s from Georgian air defense

          EMNIP, on 08.08.08, the friendlyfire was due to the military air defense of the lower level: the advancing troops traditionally lost contact, and the MANPADS crews fired at everything they see.
          In the Bryansk region, there is still no such mess of an offensive.
          1. +3
            17 May 2023
            Quote: Alexey RA
            friendlyfire

            How about ours?
            Quote: El Barto
            And right there in the next story, without hesitation, they talked about the losses of our Su-25s from Georgian air defense

            There were just Ukrainian calculations. Apartments earned. Yes, and the tanks were from the Ukrainian capital with Israeli optics.
      2. +4
        17 May 2023
        Quote: ZhEK-Vodogrey
        maybe friendfire.

        Any air defense is the best at shooting down ITS aircraft, alas, but these are "statistics" that are quite understandable. Pilots, just calm down and get...
    2. +7
      17 May 2023
      The Su-35 was told that there was a powerful anti-missile defense, a means of warning about a missile attack, why didn’t it work? And the SU-35 shot down near Danetsk a few months ago. They immediately stated that they shot down their own, repelling a missile attack, so not only the Syrians are shooting at their own, again where is the SU-35 missile defense, which should deflect the missile. They also wrote that the SU-35 and SU-34 radars can work on the ground at a distance 100 km to detect a tank, a thermal imager to detect a missile launch at a distance of 30 km, in Syria they wrote that heaped Su-25s and helicopters with the help of anti-missile equipment move away from missiles, but did it not work here or is it not?
      1. +4
        17 May 2023
        It doesn’t occur to me what it means that the pilots didn’t even begin to descend when their SAM radars were irradiated, and not just turn on the electronic warfare? This is only possible if the pilot sees that he is being irradiated by an accurately friendly radar like the S-400
  9. +19
    17 May 2023
    And why not consider the most important version: What yesterday’s villagers already have the Russian army created for parades, and over which they have been laughed at for all 8 years on all TV channels?

    Oh, yes, our most holy radiant king-father was deceived again. But only not his "dear partners", but his closest advisers who advised to make a professional showman from the Ministry of Emergency Situations with a great obedient list of beautiful demonstration performances for the amusement of the drunken Borka's predecessor tsar ...
  10. +22
    17 May 2023
    Gen. Konashenkov and the information service of the Moscow Region headed by him ̶k̶o̶n̶t̶o̶r̶a̶ amaze with their stupidity and professional unsuitability.
    Daily "counting" at which even the lazy ones laugh and the concealment of well-known failures cause great irritation.
    Let's remember how it was necessary to listen to "enemy radio voices" in order to find out the news about Chernobyl.
    There is a war going on. In war, there are victories and failures.
    And Gen. Konashenkov should remember the brilliant phrase of Yu. Semyonov / Schellenberg
    1. +21
      17 May 2023
      the information service of the Ministry of Defense is striking in its stupidity and professional unsuitability.

      All the way around

      When silence is golden

      Everyone thinks that they will be loudly told about the exploits and report on the situation in this holy patriotic war. But there the whole story is tied to the fact that you are less drunk, since last February the chief got involved in such a thing.

      For a year and a half of hostilities, when there really are no arguments, excuses and good explanations, they manage to reduce the degree of popular discontent. With such silence and brief peppy reports “everything is according to plan” - everyone forgets about failures the next day. I exaggerate - in a week no one will remember what happened there near Bryansk. Without provoking undue attention. Without further ado, let's move on.

      Moscow drowned - everyone got drunk and forgot. Sometimes they remember, of course, but already without a twinkle

      For this, the press service of the Ministry of Defense takes fire upon itself, accusations of unprofessionalism, but such a reaction is a reward for real professionals. In the end, it's their job, for which they pay good money. Ridicule of Konashenkov is an absolutely negligible price for victory in the information war. Everything is covered, and you can continue the unpopular and useless war. without much objection and panic from the public
      1. +16
        17 May 2023
        The Ukrainian activist Zoryan Shkiryak summed up this tactic of hushing up in dealing with bad news briefly and succinctly: "They stink and they forget." What can you, little people, against us, even the crap, can? However, the Kursk submarine, retirement age, and the Moscow cruiser have not been forgotten. That is why Putin quieted down, knowing full well that all his recent speeches had no effect. And the fact that many times more fled from mobilization than was mobilized is the answer of little people, including to official lies.
        1. +6
          17 May 2023
          Therefore, shut up

          He was bored and tired of this topic of war for a long time.
          1. +11
            17 May 2023
            Hit first, and then pretend that the fight is boring. But the "partners" are not bored and they get a taste. A criminal warrant has already been issued.
          2. +5
            17 May 2023
            He is tired, and our and your relatives continue to shed blood, right? You can't grow a severed arm, you can't grow a leg again, and you can't resurrect the dead. And their cash handouts on this occasion are so-so compensation.
          3. 0
            17 May 2023
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Therefore, shut up

            He was bored and tired of this topic of war for a long time.

            Rather, he just doesn't know what to do. Everything did not go as it seemed and as the advisers convinced.
        2. RGB
          +7
          17 May 2023
          I'm more interested in where his daughters and grandchildren are now? For some reason, I'm sure that in NATO countries! If this is true, then all these agreements and failures of the army become clear.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +4
      17 May 2023
      You're right! Just a lot of distrust! To blow into our ears everything, the servants eat, and the gentlemen, as usual, have nothing to do with it.
  11. +9
    17 May 2023
    Well, as it were, this is what they write in our press, in the Urals. And this is only in the URAL.
    And what is happening then in the border areas and what probably not everyone writes about?


    FSB officers have suppressed activities since the beginning of the year eight sabotage and reconnaissance groups in the Sverdlovsk and Tyumen regions. This was announced by a representative of the Sverdlovsk FSB during an official meeting on countering terrorism.

    - Members of these DRGs planned to commit a series of terrorist attacks and sabotage. In total, 20 people were detained, 13 criminal cases are being investigated, - said the official representative of the FSB in the Sverdlovsk region Alina Kazantseva.

    Earlier it became known that in Yekaterinburg the FSB held a meeting on countering terrorism, which discussed the main issues of ensuring security in the region.

    - Based on the results of the meeting, measures were developed aimed at improving the organization of informing residents about the work of authorities and law enforcement agencies in the field of terrorism prevention, the department added.

    https://www.ural.kp.ru/online/news/5272133/
  12. -18
    17 May 2023
    If the Ministry of Defense is silent, then nothing happened. There is no need to inflate the fakes of the enemy CIPSO!
  13. Eug
    +9
    17 May 2023
    By the type of damaging elements, it is easy to determine the type of means of destruction (as for me, it should be voiced) and in the future to develop counter tactics. Let's hope they do it...
  14. -18
    17 May 2023
    Quote from iran

    For a long time now, I have no hope that it will be possible to turn the army in Russia into a modern, combat-ready army, ready to challenge modern realities. It's not ours. We have only beautiful parades, military bands with songs and dances, and of course thousands of films about how our partisans or soldiers smash the enemy to smithereens with their cunning and professional operations.

    So the tsipsota pulled herself up. Attempts to mimic the sufferer were again unsuccessful.
    Of course it's not yours.
    1. +10
      17 May 2023
      Quote: Tagan
      So the tsipsota pulled herself up. Attempts to mimic fear


      And here is a paper general with a toy machine gun pulled himself up from his sofa. He's doing just fine, just in the last minute he shot thousands of enemies with his machine gun. And he will come from school and destroy thousands more
      1. -4
        17 May 2023
        Quote from iran
        And here is a paper general with a toy machine gun pulled himself up from his sofa. He's doing just fine, just in the last minute he shot thousands of enemies with his machine gun. And he will come from school and destroy thousands more

        Did you offer anything? How to get out of this, to put it mildly, not an easy situation?
        All that can be seen from your reasoning is: And Katz offers to surrender!!!
        You're just saying that there is no way out!
        As I understand it, you yourself are already ready to give up!

        Therefore, the definition of you as a disguised cissist is quite acceptable!
        1. +4
          17 May 2023
          Quote: Dali
          Did you offer anything? How to get out of this, to put it mildly, not an easy situation?


          I only see three real options:

          1) the maximum prolongation of the conflict until the EU surrenders and orders Zelensky to start peace negotiations. That is why Russia is now on its way. How long it will take - no one knows. Maybe 6 months, maybe a year, maybe two. Everything depends on the success of the counteroffensive. If it specifically fails, then the likelihood of peace negotiations increases dramatically.

          2) Russia returns to the moment of 24.02.23/XNUMX/XNUMX. which is essentially a capitulation and Russia will have to answer for everything that it has done. And most likely the sanctions will not begin to be lifted until Crimea is returned. And of course, he will demand that everyone who was responsible for this war be brought to justice - there is no other way.

          3) Russia begins in full mobilization and stupidly crushes the enemy in numbers. But there is a risk of drawing NATO into the conflict. Not to mention that in Russia, to put it mildly, this can reach the point of outright disobedience. Among the people who can be called to this war, there are too few who want to.
          1. man
            +5
            17 May 2023
            1) the maximum prolongation of the conflict until the EU surrenders and orders Zelensky to start peace negotiations.
            The EU will not give up, the states will not allow it, they do not care about the rest
          2. -1
            17 May 2023
            Quote from iran
            Quote: Dali
            Did you offer anything? How to get out of this, to put it mildly, not an easy situation?


            I only see three real options:

            1) the maximum prolongation of the conflict until the EU surrenders and orders Zelensky to start peace negotiations. That is why Russia is now on its way. How long it will take - no one knows. Maybe 6 months, maybe a year, maybe two. Everything depends on the success of the counteroffensive. If it specifically fails, then the likelihood of peace negotiations increases dramatically.

            2) Russia returns to the moment of 24.02.23/XNUMX/XNUMX. which is essentially a capitulation and Russia will have to answer for everything that it has done. And most likely the sanctions will not begin to be lifted until Crimea is returned. And of course, he will demand that everyone who was responsible for this war be brought to justice - there is no other way.

            3) Russia begins in full mobilization and stupidly crushes the enemy in numbers. But there is a risk of drawing NATO into the conflict. Not to mention that in Russia, to put it mildly, this can reach the point of outright disobedience. Among the people who can be called to this war, there are too few who want to.

            Do we need peace talks on this front line, when the enemy has Kherson, part of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, part of the DPR?
            This will be our defeat.
        2. 0
          17 May 2023
          Quote: Dali
          Did you offer anything?
          Should he? And if he does, what will change?
          Quote: Dali
          How to get out of this, to put it mildly, not an easy situation?
          Change the entire leadership from major generals and above and put them on trial, will this way out suit? Is he real? To embed in the arsenals, factories and palaces of England, explaining to NATO that they have point 5 - not their protection, but their problem. There will be an exit, right?
          In general, your approach amazes me: "I crap, how are you going to get me out of this, to put it mildly, not an easy situation." "I cut off the wrong leg for you, how to get out of this, to put it mildly, not an easy situation?" etc.
          1. +3
            17 May 2023
            Quote: bk0010
            Quote: Dali
            Did you offer anything?
            Should he? And if he does, what will change?
            Quote: Dali
            How to get out of this, to put it mildly, not an easy situation?
            Change the entire leadership from major generals and above and put them on trial, will this way out suit? Is he real? To embed in the arsenals, factories and palaces of England, explaining to NATO that they have point 5 - not their protection, but their problem. There will be an exit, right?
            In general, your approach amazes me: "I crap, how are you going to get me out of this, to put it mildly, not an easy situation." "I cut off the wrong leg for you, how to get out of this, to put it mildly, not an easy situation?" etc.

            England in response will strike at the Winter Palace, at the Kremlin and other places, then what? Let's send humanity to the dinosaurs, because people in Russia do not know how to lose. Isn't there too much selfishness?
            1. 0
              18 May 2023
              Here I was simply showing the inadequacy of Dali's approach to the discussion, so the proposal was purely rhetorical.
          2. 0
            31 May 2023
            How many Stalin shot lampisnikov from 1937 to 1941 but did not learn how to fight. And there were titans who, with their teeth knocked out, told Stalin the truth. An example of Rokosovsky, his teeth were knocked out in the Gulag, but he still cut the truth of the uterus or take Zhukov, he did not study in London, the former companion went through the 1st world, civil. But still the Soviet school where they taught well. He didn’t go to Germany like Tukhachevsky, he didn’t study BLITZKRIG like Tukhachevsky, who failed this BLITZKRIG near Warsaw, when the Poles gave the snot of the Red Army. Tukhachevsky forgot that he had no reserves left as the Germans near Moscow left reserves. Plus cleanliness, we will smash everyone with a small number. It just turned out like a parable, like a jerk caught a bear, his mother tells him once he caught it, bring it here. But he can’t answer, the bear won’t let me. So Zhukov did not suffer from this and well stung the enemy and acted on defense. In general, Stalin knew how to find and convince people. I drove all the designers behind the grid into sharashkas, you will invent something useful for the camp and let it go to your wife. For example, one plant director who had problems with tanks, who produced his plant. Sent to the front and planted at the levers of the tank, which produced his factory and sent into battle. The dude survived, he was even returned to the factory and the problems with the production of tanks were immediately resolved. That's why our engineers who produce military equipment were sent to Syria. So that they would eliminate the sins, and in Ukraine there was only one Rogozin and then he had a booze in a restaurant, where he was covered with a rocket that was aimed at the satellite, so the Ukrainians asked him why Russia has only one reconnaissance satellite with a good radar. So the war will put everything in its place. True, Stalin from 1924 to 1942 was looking for the keys to victory, the main thing he wanted it and his sons were at the fronts, and not in London. Let's hope that Vova will also find the keys to victory. There are glimpses left Chubaisiki and they realized that they are not expected in the United States. And the Russians in the USA understand that they are Indians there, and the Indian in the USA is dead, they can reach home and the country does not want to return to 90, when we surrendered to the mercy of the USA and ate their chewing gum and jeans. As they say, hope is our earthly compass, and luck is hope for courage
  15. +4
    17 May 2023
    How many times has Ukrainian air defense been destroyed in reports and reports? And, if it is really destroyed, then what happens?

    At the same time, the author himself is talking about a patriot ... This system was apparently on dill all the time, or is this replenishment connected with air defense problems?
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. -9
    17 May 2023
    Quote from iran

    I have one question for you: do you pilot a combat couch or a combat toilet?
    As for the "fascists", yesterday's Selyuks, whom everyone laughed at, suddenly turned out to be very combat-ready, against which the huge Russian army cannot do anything, even in 1 year and 3 months they could not liberate Donbass and completely bogged down in a swamp. I do not even want to mention what is happening inside Russia, where Ukrainian intelligence, under the nose of our special services, works like at home.

    That is why I no longer have any hopes that we will have a NATO-level army (well, or something close).
    But you can do it like Peter 1, who did not hesitate to invite foreign military to work to create a modern, combat-ready army.

    Itit-knock, so the professionals hatched.)))
    Well, firstly, for quite a long time it was not a "huge army" that fought against the Sumerians, but a contingent that was much inferior in numbers to them. Secondly, the Selyuks have the support of the entire NATO bloc. So there is no need to tell that like this, with bare hands, the Bandera bastard entered the battle with the Russian army armed to the teeth. We have been preparing for eight years, pulling weapons from all over the world. Forgot, al did not know?
    And who said that the Russian army can't do anything? And who can?
    "NATO-level army"... And where did it prove itself? Isn't it disgusting to piss with boiling water, licking the owner and thus demonstrating one's inferiority?
    Your centuries-old colonial thinking betrays a lot. Constantly being under someone, not having self-esteem. Ugh!
    1. +3
      17 May 2023
      And what kind of weapons from all over the world have been dragged off for eight years?
    2. +3
      17 May 2023
      And who is to blame that our grouping was much inferior, and is still inferior to the enemy?
      Who has not calculated the situation BEFORE the start of the operation?
      As Lieutenant General Gurulev said, war is mathematics.
      That is, first, the forces and means of the enemy are calculated, then the forces and means necessary for us to complete the task, and so on.
      So who did not calculate and who is to blame that our army found itself in such a situation?
      Say A say B.
      Instead of throwing accusations at the participants in the discussion.
  18. +11
    17 May 2023
    We have to admit that the Armed Forces are fighting with an enterprising and skillful enemy, and even well-armed! Repeatedly, during the course of the NMD, we learned (and are learning!) About the initiative (!) Military-technical and military-tactical "techniques" of the enemy, which turned out to be and turn out to be unexpected for the command of the Armed Forces! This speaks not only of a skillful and intelligent enemy; but also of the inertia of thinking of the military command of the Russian army ... of the inability of the generals to quickly respond to the enemy's initiatives ... to "foresee" them! This happens ! This happens when they are nominated (appointed) to the highest command positions not according to their intelligence and military talents (abilities); and according to the degree of ostentatious devotion (sycophancy) to the ruling regime in the country!
  19. +11
    17 May 2023
    Quote from iran
    And why not consider the most important version: What yesterday’s villagers already have the Russian army created for parades, and over which they have been laughed at for all 8 years on all TV channels?

    Oh, yes, our most holy radiant king-father was deceived again. But only not his "dear partners", but his closest advisers who advised to make a professional showman from the Ministry of Emergency Situations with a great obedient list of beautiful demonstration performances for the amusement of the drunken Borka's predecessor tsar ...

    So if saboteurs are caught in batches already beyond the Urals, in Tyumen, etc., then how many of them are in the border with the outskirts of the Bryansk region, it’s even scary to think about it! And the terrorists from Belarus who fled from Lukashenka to Poland, what are they, in Poland they eat pancakes for free? Here, under Bryansk, he directs them, to work out. And how many of their own who hate Russia, and how many have been introduced from this outskirts in the form of refugees? And also, the FSB has its hands tied with liberal laws and the FSB does not allow, in my opinion, to introduce its agents into gangs in order to identify terrorists through provocation.
    As for the heirs of the professional showman from the Ministry of Emergency Situations, who became the Minister of Defense, the current Minister of the Ministry of Emergency Situations recently spoke on the ashes after the fires in the Kurgan region. So he probably put on a larger-sized vest under a jacket, so that at least part of a massive gold chain like Ramses Nr3 would be visible on the neck. Well, like a peacock arrived on the ashes.
  20. +4
    17 May 2023
    It looks more like a rocket of some kind of complex, and it probably flew from the other side from where it was filmed. A missile that could not get into the frame could fly high, and from the other side. Immediately the question is that the rocket that hit the helicopter or fired at the helicopter from afar.
  21. 0
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Nexcom
    Well, as it were, this is what they write in our press, in the Urals. And this is only in the URAL.
    And what is happening then in the border areas and what probably not everyone writes about?

    FSB officers have suppressed activities since the beginning of the year eight sabotage and reconnaissance groups in the Sverdlovsk and Tyumen regions. This was announced by a representative of the Sverdlovsk FSB during an official meeting on countering terrorism.

    - Members of these DRGs planned to commit a series of terrorist attacks and sabotage. In total, 20 people were detained, 13 criminal cases are being investigated, - said the official representative of the FSB in the Sverdlovsk region Alina Kazantseva.

    Well, for example, everything is fine with us (about 150 km to the front line), thank God. Already idly staggering DRGs with grenade launchers at the ready are definitely not to be seen. In Donetsk and Luhansk, of course, it is more disturbing.
    PS except from the last, a raid on the Novoshakhtinsky refinery.
    1. +10
      17 May 2023
      Judging by the news, these groups have now started setting fires, setting a lot of things on fire. According to the map of fires, set fire to the site from Novosibirsk to Kurgan, where military plants are located there and burn
      1. +2
        17 May 2023
        Quote from Alexwar
        Judging by the news, these groups have now started setting fires, setting a lot of things on fire. According to the map of fires, set fire to the site from Novosibirsk to Kurgan, where military plants are located there and burn

        in the previous decades - did they also set fires? how can a munitions factory be damaged by a forest fire?
  22. +2
    17 May 2023
    Everything happens exactly in the centuries-old traditions of our society.

    But not at all from the fact that the state has a Ministry of Defense. It would have been even worse without him.

    Privatization will not save. Nationalization will not save. Everything is good for the smart, everything is bad for the fools.
  23. -11
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Coward
    “I have one question for you: are you piloting a combat couch or a combat toilet?”
    Well, finally there was a commentator who writes straight from the trench.

    For him, a cisso comp is a trench. Probably sits and scribbles in armor and helmet)))
    1. +14
      17 May 2023
      Andrey, in your comments, through one, CIPSO is mentioned .. You really are everyone - who disagrees with you, do you think CIPSO?
      1. -6
        17 May 2023
        All power to the Soviets!

        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
        You are really everyone - who disagrees with you, do you think CIPSO?

        In addition to the CIPSO (Center for Information and Psychological Operations) of Ukraine, there are also internal enemies working for the interests of the West, massively replicating fakes distributed by the same CIPSO.

        There is also an "initiative from below" i.e. local, from article to article writing only one negative and thus negatively affecting the morale of society, leading to the emergence of defeatist sentiments and ultimately to the loss of the war, the results of which will be the dismemberment of Russia into specific principalities, internecine wars to determine the boundaries of possessions (only to date, the borders of almost 200 regions and districts have not been finally determined, but what will happen when everything starts ...).

        At all times, always and everywhere, opposition parties have used external aggression to their advantage. The Medvedev clan-corporate group, which is negotiating with the West on signing a surrender, is no exception, in the hope that the indignant people will throw off, there are no non-Medvedev ones who led the country to a disaster, and not involved in this - Putin (all the media are controlled by them) ...

        Gerasimov, and there are plenty of people like him in the General Staff, which is why we are fighting according to the scenario of the West and storming the fortified areas built by the West in eight years and are not trying to take Kiev (the control center), as it was in the early days of the NWO.
        1. +8
          17 May 2023
          Which Kyiv to take? How many settlements are we recapturing? Bakhut-Artemovsk the size of Stalingrad or Kyiv?
        2. 0
          17 May 2023
          Quote: Boris55
          the results of which will be the dismemberment of Russia into specific principalities, internecine wars to determine the boundaries of possessions (only today the borders of almost 200 regions and regions have not been finally determined, but what will happen when everything starts ...)

          this will not happen because of the NWO, due to the fact that it is UNFAVORABLE and UNNEEDED for anyone, including the "west".
          Quote: Boris55
          who led the country to disaster, and not involved in this - Putin

          I mean, what then is the President responsible for and what is he involved in? it is he who is directly subordinate to the "siloviki" - who can do almost anything to implement his will, and he - announced the NVO, and the State Duma, at the same time (according to you, like "Medvedev's") approved everything (although why did it approve if it's not in its interests and she is against him?) ... You somehow belittle the possibilities of the GDP, saying that nothing in the country depends on it, but "Medvedevshchina" rules here ...
          1. -6
            17 May 2023
            All power to the Soviets!

            Quote: North Caucasus
            Which Kyiv to take?

            Remember the Gostomel airport, captured by us in the first hours of the North Military District and ready to receive the main forces. Remember how all the embassies fled from Kyiv - he was already ready to surrender.
            Remember why it didn't happen. Remember these people, thanks to whom the war is proceeding according to the Western scenario, according to which we attack the fortifications that the West has been building for eight years...


            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            it won't be because of SVO

            The goals of the West are not base - the destruction of Russia. The opposition is trying to use the West for their own purposes, not realizing that the West is using them.

            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            You somehow belittle the possibilities of GDP, saying that nothing in the country depends on it, but "Medvedevshchina" steers us ...

            Reading the Constitution of the Russian Federation:

            Article 105
            1. Federal laws are adopted by the State Duma.

            Article 90
            3. Decrees and orders of the President of the Russian Federation must not contradict the Constitution of the Russian Federation and federal laws.

            So who is more important - the boyars or the king?

            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            he announced the NWO, and the State Duma, at the same time (in your opinion, like "Medvedev's") approved everything

            After the SVO approved the Russian Security Council. So the responsibility for the NWO lies not only with Putin, but with all of them. But they have different goals...



            The State Duma approved, in the hope that Russia would start a war according to the plans of the West (to storm the fortifications that the West had been building for eight years in the forehead, which is happening) and they would sign a surrender ...

            For the sake of their own "candle factory", they are ready to sell, sell the country wholesale and retail, even to the Americans, even to the Chinese, even to the devil bald.

            The President has repeatedly voiced his goals.
            1. +8
              17 May 2023
              Quote: Boris55
              So who is more important - the boyars or the king?

              the answer lies in the question - where do the boyars come from and where is the appointment of the boyars agreed? who appoints governors? What federal law forces the President to appoint them, after consideration by the Presidential Administration? against your will? and from which party they are in the majority and why? But don't the governors appointed by the President by chance somehow influence the elections of "boyars" and how do they turn out to be, in your opinion, "Medvedevites" all the time? and who appoints judges in the Russian Federation, also boyars? To whom are the security forces directly subordinated, according to the Laws? also boyars? having "in the hands" of the courts, security forces and governors, having - as you say "full support of the population" - do you need to reckon with some "boyars" to carry out your will? Or do you think they are all so crystal clear that the security forces have nothing to present according to the law, and the courts to consider? complete anti-logic in your theses Boris .. I already wrote, it looks like a denial syndrome, when you can’t accept the existence of something, you just deny it, such protection of the psyche ..
              1. -2
                17 May 2023
                All power to the Soviets!

                Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                the answer lies in the question - where do the boyars come from and where is the appointment of the boyars agreed?

                Our legislation is arranged in such a way that a person of an oligarch appointed in the 90s as holders of the State Department's wallet can become a boyar.

                As for the rest of the questions.
                The election decides which clan will get how much and which seats. This agreement is reviewed after the next elections. A person appointed from one clan to a chair cannot be removed by another clan.

                What happens when treaties are broken (Trump) - look at the USA (she kirdyk).

                What can they do.
                Close production, raise prices, raise the key rate of the Central Bank to 20% or more (during perestroika, the rate reached 300%) ... As an example of how the security forces were destroyed, they simply stopped paying salaries and there is no army, police, and other structures, but those who remained - who did what they had to do.

                I am for dispersing the bourgeois Duma and transferring power to the Soviets Folk deputies.

                ps
                "State policy and management in a crowd-" elite "society is an agreement reached on the capabilities of various clan-corporate groupings in using the state structure and system to achieve their narrowly corporate goals."

                pps
                Are you ready to oppose Putin (see my first comment above)?
                Judging by the number of questions (claims) - yes ...
                1. man
                  +2
                  17 May 2023
                  I am in favor of dispersing the bourgeois Duma and transferring power to the Soviets of People's Deputies.
                  In principle, I do too, but I'm afraid that the people are no longer the same. The youth have been corrupted, and without youth there is no future ...
                2. +2
                  17 May 2023
                  Quote: Boris55
                  Are you ready to oppose Putin (see my first comment above)?
                  Judging by the number of questions (claims) - yes ...

                  no, I’m not ready .. why?) I’m not a supporter of revolutions .. I’m just against smearing responsibility on indefinite groups of people, such as “boyars”, “west”, “liberals” - this is all a evasion of responsibility, tk. if a group of people is responsible for something, then no one is responsible for it .. and my questions, as you correctly understood, in order to show that Medvedev and Putin are "of the same field", even both Presidents of the Russian Federation and your artificial the opposition as "enemies" is just speculation, since all the so-called "Medvedevites" if necessary, in a month everyone will "disappear" and no one will make a sound, in general - now why continue to keep this "two clan system" if we are already "west" "sent"?
                  Quote: Boris55
                  I am in favor of dispersing the bourgeois Duma and transferring power to the Soviets of People's Deputies.

                  Well, in a capitalist society and with the current structure of the state, this is impossible, but the Council of People's Deputies is possible under communism - are you calling for a revolution, my friend? it turns out that you are against Putin, Boris is the Guarantor of the Constitution, where there are no Soviets of People's Deputies ..
                  1. -2
                    18 May 2023
                    All power to the Soviets!

                    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                    that Medvedev and Putin are "of the same field", even both Presidents of the Russian Federation

                    They are both representatives of their clans. This is where their similarities end.
                    Different clans have different interests.

                    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                    now why continue to keep this "2 clan system"

                    You have probably heard about the inner-party struggle in the USSR (Trotskyists, Bolsheviks, Social Revolutionaries, Bundists, Zinovievites, etc.).

                    Power always and everywhere consists of clans. In the US, the Clintons, Bushes, Kennedys, etc.

                    Our power is not limited to Putin's and Medvedev's. There are also Zyuganovtsy, Mironovtsy, Volodintsy, Matvienkovtsy, etc., on which little depends in our life, but they have an impact on us to one degree or another.

                    "State policy and governance in a crowd- "elite" society is an agreement reached on the capabilities of various clan-corporate groupings to use the state structure and system to achieve their narrowly corporate goals".

                    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                    Council of People's Deputies is possible under communism - you call for a revolution,

                    No - to evolution. As soon as the idea takes hold of the masses, it will become a reality.

                    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                    it turns out that you are against Putin, Boris is the Guarantor of the Constitution

                    Putin is a Bolshevik (I am the same). He works in the conditions that are. Its activity is limited by the Constitution and Laws. Its task is to take our civilization out of the control of the West and achieve independence from external pressure.

                    The task of the next president will be the revival of the USSR in full and the Soviets of People's Deputies. The former independent republics (and not only them) will themselves be asked to return under the wing of Russian civilization. Only with us they are provided with their identity.
                    1. +1
                      18 May 2023
                      Boris, in your theory, everything seems to be fine and smooth, but there is an extremely weak spot .. and if Putin is not a Bolshevik, what then? just answer - what then?
                      1. 0
                        19 May 2023
                        All power to the Soviets!

                        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                        and if Putin is not a Bolshevik, then what?

                        Judge them by their deeds. Putin is a Bolshevik. What is Bolshevism:

                        "Bolshevism - this is not a Russian variety of Marxism and not a party affiliation. And the phrase “Jewish Bolshevism” used by Hitler in Mein Kampf is completely meaningless, since Bolshevism is a manifestation of the spirit of Russian civilization, and not the spirit of the bearers of the doctrine of biblical global slavery on a racial basis.

                        Bolshevism existed before Marxism, existed in Russian Marxism, somehow exists today. It will continue to exist.
                        As the Bolsheviks themselves, members of the Marxist party RSDLP * (b), it was they who expressed in politics the strategic interests of the working majority of the population of multinational Russia, as a result of which only they had the right to be called Bolsheviks. Regardless of how infallible the Bolsheviks are in expressing the strategic interests of the working majority, how much this majority itself is aware of its strategic interests and is true to them in life, essence of Bolshevism not in the numerical superiority of the adherents of certain ideas over the adherents of other ideas and the thoughtless crowd, but precisely in this:
                        in a sincere desire to express and implement the long-term strategic interests of the labor majority, who wants no one to parasitize on his work and life. In other words, the essence of Bolshevism is historically realistic in every era in the active support of the transition process from the historically established crowd-“elitism” to the multinational humanity of the Earth of a future era.

                        Putin, with all the negative impacts of the environment, both from outside and in Russia itself, improves the life of the majority. Unlike Medvedev: "There is no money, but you hold on." But under Putin, money was found for the construction of their aircraft, and for free lunches for schoolchildren, and much more.

                        ps
                        Bolshevism:
                        https://vp-sssr.ru/download/works/4/voina-gosudarstvo-bolsevizm-tom-3-bolsevizm.pdf

                        "Russian Bolshevism is a unique phenomenon in world history, which still raises many questions. What is Bolshevism? How are Bolsheviks different from communists? How did the Bolsheviks build the Soviet state in the conditions of the World War of the XNUMXth century? World War, and under the leadership of the Bolsheviks, the USSR-Russia triumphantly won the second one - World War II? Why did the white generals join the Red Army? How did the Russian Bolsheviks manage not only to win the civil war, but also to repel foreign aggression, creating problems within the intervention countries?
            2. +4
              18 May 2023
              I would like to object purely on the military side. Here is the passage:
              Remember the Gostomel airport, captured by us in the first hours of the NVO and ready to receive the main forces.

              Reception of what "main forces"?

              Ours? Do you know that almost from the moment of the capture, the Gostomel airport was under heavy first mortar and then artillery fire? That the number of those who died there during the assault on ours was much less than the number of those who died later under fire? That in principle it is impossible to land transport aircraft and even helicopters with l / s at the airfield in such a situation?
        3. +1
          17 May 2023
          Boris55! Everything is so, only Gerasimov is a dependent person, goes under Shoigu. And whose instructions Shoigu is pushing through - we will not know.
  24. +3
    17 May 2023
    The Su-35 was told that there was a powerful anti-missile defense, a means of warning about a missile attack, why didn’t it work? And the SU-35 shot down near Danetsk a few months ago. They immediately stated that they shot down their own, repelling a missile attack, so not only the Syrians are shooting at their own, again where is the SU-35 missile defense, which should deflect the missile. They also wrote that the SU-35 and SU-34 radars can work on the ground at a distance 100 km to detect a tank, a thermal imager to detect a missile launch at a distance of 30 km, in Syria they wrote that heaped Su-25s and helicopters with the help of anti-missile equipment move away from missiles, but did it not work here or is it not?
    1. +7
      17 May 2023
      They said, they wrote, they also showed it on the Zvezda channel, after a year of SVO you still didn’t understand that all this was a PR to sell over the hill T-90S, SM, and your own T-72B3 will do.
  25. -2
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Tagan
    So the tsipsota pulled herself up. Attempts to mimic the sufferer were again unsuccessful.

    Our forum is attended not only by employees from the CISO, but also from other similar NATO structures...
    In Tallinn there is a similar structure from other places too.
    I'm trying to somehow analyze and classify their activities smile... but my resources are insignificant ... and there is also little time for this mudoten ... this business must be professionally dealt with in order to get complete clarity on the face of our information enemy.
  26. +5
    17 May 2023
    I'll put forward my own version.
    It is quite possible to drag the same BUKs to the LBS and even hide them well too. But when they begin to shine the sky in search of a target, they immediately become noticeable and unmask themselves almost completely. Therefore, the search for targets and the target designation itself could well be carried out using other means, such as AWACS aircraft. Hence, I agree with the author that this special operation was well thought out and provided with the necessary funds. With kondachka such to carry out, you need a lot of luck. It is quite possible that the means of destruction were on the front end for a long time and did not give themselves away until the right moment.
  27. The author's style is corporate. After a couple of articles, it will be recognized instantly.
    Detail work as always fire! Especially delivered about rab helicopters 150 km from LBS. How the author compares such distances with the range of enemy air defense is not clear to me. Probably a patriot fired directly from the trenches?
    Further, according to some information, the first Su35 was shot down, then the Mi-8, then after 30 minutes the Su-34 (about 40 km from the 35th) and the second Mi-8
  28. +2
    17 May 2023
    5. Where is our air, space, radio engineering, army intelligence? Do we have any of the above that can detect such surprises in the future?

    Well, this is a bit of the Internet to poyandexit and find out what is the size of our satellite constellation and RTR aircraft, compare, according to the classics, with the United States and you can understand everything and burst into tears on this.
    1. +6
      17 May 2023
      But, I say, we make rockets. And they blocked the Yenisei, And also in the field of ballet, We are ahead, I say, of the entire planet, We are ahead of the entire planet!
      1. +7
        17 May 2023
        It's about another country.""""
  29. +5
    17 May 2023
    Topical questions! The worst thing is that these questions are the essence! "The fish is rotten from the head"!
  30. -4
    17 May 2023
    Another "miracle" threw on the fan))))
    From MANPADS to the engine DO NOT AIM !!! Aim at the OBJECT!!! And the principle of operation of the guidance system, it works on the thermal sector !!! MANPADS operate on a catch-up course, as a rule, that is, the rocket hits the engine nozzle, therefore, to protect against MANPADS, shooting of thermal traps is used. Actually, after that it was possible to go further and not read the unfortunate specialist.
    It feels like a guy-writer from TsIPSA.
    The fact that 4 objects were shot down in one day during active databases is nothing more than natural. MO RF never!!! did not say that the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was DESTROYED, it was always that it was SUPPRESSED in a certain period of time. And the suppression of fire means provides for the restoration of combat capability.
    The objects carried out planned combat flights, there are not hundreds of airfields used in the NWO, space reconnaissance fixes them freely in our time, even periodic changes in sites do not lead to complete unnoticed. Therefore, it is not so difficult to determine the approach corridor, moreover, aviation equipment, especially aircraft, are very dependent on the wind rose in the airfield area, conditionally, takeoff is usually against the wind, landing downwind. In order to enter the glide path, a high-speed aircraft needs a certain circle, with a certain turning or turning radius.
    Our great WWII pilots Kozhedub and Pokryshkin in their memoirs describe in detail how the Germans and ours constantly set up air ambushes near each other's airfields, since it is easiest to shoot down during landing and takeoff. Military intelligence has been hunting each other for the rest of their lives, "catching" in ambushes when returning, as a rule, the most convenient way is when crossing the front line (LBS). Oddly enough, but there are the same officers, generals, many still studied with us together, one school, everyone knows everything and can do it. Why is there a common opinion that they should not know and be able to do something???
    The MO will not give any explanations on such facts, if it starts, it will be the biggest idiots. And if the results of the investigation and the measures taken are brought to the attention of all "wishers" - this will be the crown of comedy)))
    1. -6
      17 May 2023
      Good comment, detailed and reasoned ... smile it's hard to argue with you. hi
    2. +8
      17 May 2023
      Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation never !!! did not say that the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was DESTROYED, it was always that it was SUPPRESSED in a certain period of time. And the suppression of fire means provides for the restoration of combat capability.

      Well, why act as the devil's advocate and publicly deceive readers and commentators? Moreover, there is already a specially hired person for this:
      Igor Konashenkov, official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry. March 9, 2022, TASS:
      “During the operation, the Russian Armed Forces destroyed 137 S-300, Buk M-1 and S-125 anti-aircraft missile systems. It's over 90 percent from long-range and medium-range anti-aircraft missile systems in service.

      81 air defense radar stations of Ukraine were also destroyed. The result was the loss of combat control of aviation and air defense of the country..

      At present, the air defense system is only focal in nature and is not capable of providing significant counteraction Russian Aviation"


      Link: https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13987955

      And if the results of the investigation and the measures taken are brought to the attention of all "wishers" - this will be the crown of comedy

      Those. Is the death of our pilots a comedy for you? Or does it seem ridiculous for you to want to thoroughly understand what happened in order to prevent such a situation in the future? Please explain.
      1. -2
        17 May 2023
        Igor Konashenkov, official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry. March 9, 2022, TASS:
        “During the operation, the Russian Armed Forces destroyed 137 S-300, Buk M-1 and S-125 anti-aircraft missile systems. This is more than 90 percent of the long-range and medium-range anti-aircraft missile systems in service.

        90% of destroyed objects is not 100%, the most important thing is, "Stirlitz would have guessed, but not you, sorry" that since March 9, 2022 "a lot of water has flowed", I translate it to you available: since April 2022, the Armed Forces of Ukraine receive all kinds of possible weapons and equipment from abroad (mainly NATO countries).
        81 air defense radar stations of Ukraine were also destroyed. The result was the loss of combat control of aviation and air defense of the country.

        The loss of combat control, nothing else, as I wrote above, is called in the military language "SUPPRESSION", that is, it has the ability to restore combat capability after a certain time.

        At present, the air defense system is only focal in nature and is not capable of providing significant counteraction to Russian aviation.

        At that time (the moment of the report). this really was the case, but, in addition to the purely physical supply of weapons and equipment (the name Patriot tells you something - a thread? For example), there is a creation of a single air defense system integrated into the common NATO system.

        Those. Is the death of our pilots a comedy for you? Or does it seem ridiculous for you to want to thoroughly understand what happened in order to prevent such a situation in the future?

        For me, a comedy is the constant desire of such ... people, in general, who, without understanding anything, are trying to puff their cheeks, talk about something, build smart out of themselves, and most importantly, constantly in the desire that someone would be in front of them I reported on something, personally reported to them)))) that's funny.
    3. +3
      17 May 2023
      Quote from Cap
      From MANPADS to the engine DO NOT AIM !!! Aim at the OBJECT!!! And the principle of operation of the guidance system, it works on the thermal sector !!! MANPADS operate on a catch-up course, as a rule,

      in defense of Skomorokhov (yes, weakly, versed in technology) I’ll write: he didn’t give out such
      Quote: author
      That is why and such a missile is induced on the most vulnerable spot - the engine. And it's easier to hover over the temperature,

      aiming and aiming a rocket: different things.
      The search and detection of an air target is carried out visually according to the target designation of the platoon (squad) commander or independently in the designated sector.
      When the “foreign” target crosses the zone of displaying the air situation, a pulsed light signal “ZONE” appears (with a blinking frequency of 3,5 Hz) and an intermittent sound signal synchronously with it. Simultaneously with the "ZONE" indicator
      the indicator LED of the target display starts flashing.
      Aiming and capturing an air target of the TGS begins immediately after selecting the operating mode of the PM when firing on a head-on course after entering the ground power unit mode, and when firing on a catch-up course, when an air target approaches the heading parameter. The capture of Delhi TGS rocket occurs at the moment of its passage of the course parameter.
      ... there are sound and light information signals indicating the capture of an air target by a TGS missile, the ARP issues a request for an NRZ, and so on
      Provided in flight autonomous missile guidance to the target according to TGS signals (to the hottest spot of the target), which issues an amendment to the "brains", and they to the actuator.
      / and where is CIPSO?
      they shoot, that in pursuit, that on the opposite side, that "shooting at a fixed target and in special conditions"
      and head-on shooting MORE and is essential for training

      And this is logical.
      Wait for the aviation to process you and then hope that you will survive and be able to shoot them in the tail .... naive

      Quote from Cap
      therefore, for protection against MANPADS, shooting of thermal traps is used.

      where is the logic?
      They are used both when they run and when they maneuver and when they attack. (and they do it right)
      An aircraft cannot shoot at a speed of 900 km / h in the direction of the MANPADS calculation at a speed of 1500 km / h in order to get ahead of the aircraft itself.
      Quote from Cap
      MO RF never!!! did not say that the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was DESTROYED, it was always that it was SUPPRESSED in a certain period of time.

      belay
      answered below
      https://topwar.ru/217164-pjat-versij-proisshedshego-v-brjanskoj-oblasti.html#comment-id-13554317
      Quote from Cap
      Our great WWII pilots Kozhedub and Pokryshkin in their memoirs describe in detail how the Germans and ours constantly set up air ambushes

      then there were other times (radar and air defense systems, and even more so MANPADS), consider it was not.
      it was possible to ambush "sitting in the clouds"
      Seyas "ambush" LA is difficult to issue. Especially on this TVD.
      Quote from Cap
      The MO will not give any explanations on such facts, if it starts, it will be the biggest idiots.

      that is, if, God forbid, another 4,5,10 combat aircraft, helicopters are shot down tomorrow, the crews die, the Moscow Region, don’t be “idiots”, will be silent and even the VP won’t start a death case?
      That is, like this:
      Tu-154B-2 aircraft RA-85572: there is no information on the completion of the investigation on the official website of the RF Ministry of Defense, no official press release was published and no press conference was held following the results of the investigation.
      In December 2019, it became known that the criminal case of the disaster was terminated "due to the lack of corpus delicti", and the decision to dismiss the case is a state secret

      belay
      really
      Quote from Cap
      will be the crown of comedy)
      1. -4
        17 May 2023
        A detailed description of the sequence of actions of the anti-aircraft gunner and the principle of operation of MANPADS has been "not interesting" to me since the 3rd year of the command school, when the teacher of the TSP department explained these general points and advised, in general, to score, since there will be an air defense system in the battalion, there will be a platoon commander and he will fuck with this topic, and this shaitan is a pipe, like a MANPADS in the hands of a platoon commander, a line company, it is unlikely that it will hit.
        What is the point? Does it go warm? For warmth. At the estimated ranges, altitudes, speeds, the engine, the pilot's face are distinguishable? No ... why be smart anymore?))) Heat traps will shoot during takeoff, during a maneuver? They shoot .... For what? What would take MANPADS of various types? Yes, what else to vyzhivatsya here?
        when there were other times (radar and air defense systems, and even more so MANPADS), consider it was not.
        it was possible to ambush "sitting in the clouds"
        Seyas "ambush" LA is difficult to issue. Especially on this TVD.

        The times are always the same, the tactics of action. one way or another, it does not fundamentally change (they will not attack backwards for a long time), and the organization of any kind of ambush actions, especially with a clear lack of their own forces and means of destruction, is the most obvious and simple.
        that is, if, God forbid, another 4,5,10 combat aircraft, helicopters are shot down tomorrow, the crews die, the Moscow Region, don’t be “idiots”, will be silent and even the VP won’t start a death case?
        That is, like this:

        Even if tomorrow, God forbid, 100 or 200 combat and not very planes and helicopters are shot down, you need to be complete idiots to tell the whole world about the results of the investigation and the measures taken in secret)))). What the VP or PV report is reported to him, this does not concern us and should not concern us. If a decision is made to punish the perpetrators, this should also be done and will be closed by orders and decrees. Information containing the number of casualties in wartime is considered a military and state secret and is carefully hidden.
        Tu-154B-2 aircraft RA-85572: there is no information on the completion of the investigation on the official website of the RF Ministry of Defense, no official press release was published and no press conference was held following the results of the investigation.
        In December 2019, it became known that the criminal case of the disaster was terminated "due to the lack of corpus delicti", and the decision to dismiss the case is a state secret

        Cherry on the cake))))) How can an investigation about an AK or an accident with an essentially civilian side, which took place absolutely in peacetime, affect the defense capability of the Armed Forces? As they say, do not confuse soft with warm.
        If it’s really hard to realize this, read the reports of the Soviet Information Bureau during the Second World War at your leisure, will you find information about our losses there? Conclusions of GKO commissions on certain facts? The execution of Pavlov in 1941 was announced by the guilty on the radio?.....
        1. +1
          17 May 2023
          What is the point? Is it warm? For warmth.

          No need to cast a shadow on the wattle fence.
          Where Skomorokhov wrote
          Quote from Cap
          From MANPADS to the engine DO NOT AIM !!! Aim at the OBJECT!!!
          ??
          "not interested" from the 3rd year of the command school

          I doubt it, especially after pearls
          “Shooting is always in pursuit and therefore “backwards” they shoot back”
          action tactics. anyway,

          Brad.
          "Sit" in ambush at enemy airfields belay
          Now?
          Well, at least one example from the time of the mass distribution of radar / radar?
          You are such a de "specialist" in MANPADS, air defense systems, air combat tactics, like this one:
          Quote from Santa Fee
          Radar Irbis sees only in a narrow field of view, straight ahead. Optical station also….
          Fighter for a rocket - a static object, the difference in speed is too great

          Cherry on the cake))))) How is the investigation about AK or AP with an essentially civilian side, which took place absolutely in peacetime

          I'm not a cook, I don't like cherries. The board was the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, military, flew to war
          Russian military operation in Syria (officially - special tasks on the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic
          This is your eternal distortion and lies are already annoying.
          read at your leisure the reports of the Soviet Information Bureau during the Second World War

          Yes, you only heard about them in feature films with the edge of one ear, and of course you didn’t read them.
          Use:
          http://docs.historyrussia.org/ru/nodes/219497-dokumenty
          1. +1
            19 May 2023
            Under each of my phrases, I’ll just sign again. As for ambushes: today there is no need to "sit" in an ambush near the airfield, it is enough to organize it in the direction / in the zone of a possible flight of our aviation. It doesn't change the essence of the question.
    4. +3
      17 May 2023
      Quote from Cap
      Another "miracle" threw on the fan))))
      From MANPADS to the engine DO NOT AIM !!! Aim at the OBJECT!!! And the principle of operation of the guidance system, it works on the thermal sector !!! MANPADS operate on a catch-up course, as a rule, that is, the rocket hits the engine nozzle, therefore, to protect against MANPADS, shooting of thermal traps is used. Actually, after that it was possible to go further and not read the unfortunate specialist.
      It feels like a guy-writer from TsIPSA.
      The fact that 4 objects were shot down in one day during active databases is nothing more than natural. MO RF never!!! did not say that the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was DESTROYED, it was always that it was SUPPRESSED in a certain period of time. And the suppression of fire means provides for the restoration of combat capability.
      The objects carried out planned combat flights, there are not hundreds of airfields used in the NWO, space reconnaissance fixes them freely in our time, even periodic changes in sites do not lead to complete unnoticed. Therefore, it is not so difficult to determine the approach corridor, moreover, aviation equipment, especially aircraft, are very dependent on the wind rose in the airfield area, conditionally, takeoff is usually against the wind, landing downwind. In order to enter the glide path, a high-speed aircraft needs a certain circle, with a certain turning or turning radius.
      Our great WWII pilots Kozhedub and Pokryshkin in their memoirs describe in detail how the Germans and ours constantly set up air ambushes near each other's airfields, since it is easiest to shoot down during landing and takeoff. Military intelligence has been hunting each other for the rest of their lives, "catching" in ambushes when returning, as a rule, the most convenient way is when crossing the front line (LBS). Oddly enough, but there are the same officers, generals, many still studied with us together, one school, everyone knows everything and can do it. Why is there a common opinion that they should not know and be able to do something???
      The MO will not give any explanations on such facts, if it starts, it will be the biggest idiots. And if the results of the investigation and the measures taken are brought to the attention of all "wishers" - this will be the crown of comedy)))

      Comedy you are ours, nine pilots died in a few hours, and for him "nothing unusual."
      It's funny to him. Well, certainly not your son or brother.
      Another confuses salty with square.
      Once again, no one demands to announce the results of the investigation, which is probably still ongoing.
      We are talking about the stubborn silence of the MO of the fact itself.
      1. -1
        19 May 2023
        You are our stupid, once again, for those who "burned in the tank": ANY information about losses during the database is a state and military secret. MO itself decides what information, to what extent and how to give! From the fact that yesterday or tomorrow Konashenkov will announce the loss of those 4 objects, and 2-3 more x any, where and when, will it become easier for you personally, or will your digestion improve? Personally, what will change in your life? What do you personally need this official for?
  31. -4
    17 May 2023
    One thing is confusing - there is not one, not only a video, but even a description of the moment of hitting. Like "that a helicopter was flying from there, a rocket was catching up with it from there and an explosion." There are none, which means that either the carriers or interviews were instantly "withdrawn and classified" or ... That there were no these air defense missiles or MANPADS, but something else:
    1) Sabotage right at the airfield - fragmentation ammunition mounted on the hull or something? Or blatant negligence
    2) Shooting from something 20-30 mm from the ground, such as ZU-23. The flight altitude is low, this is quite enough for turntables with just such a nature of damage
    3) Your versions?
    1. +6
      17 May 2023
      Like "that a helicopter was flying from there, a rocket was chasing him hence the explosion.

      Air-to-air missiles are not like missiles from Baikonur

      The operating time of a solid rocket engine is seconds. At long range, this is an arrow flying by inertia.

      From a distance of several kilometers, only a warhead explosion is visible
      ----
      The data given in the article of 120+ km of the AIM-120 launch range are valid for launch from an aircraft, when launched from a ground installation (NASAMS) the range is several times less (50 km)

      And the conclusion is one

      The Russian Aerospace Forces got acquainted in an air battle with the main long-range air-to-air missile of Western production AIM-120 AMRAAM. As a result, the downed Sushki did not even have time to notice their opponent
      1. +1
        17 May 2023
        Let us suppose. But where is the smoke trail? okay, helicopters, but fighters are maneuverable targets, they cannot be shot down just like that with a blank flying more than 5 kilometers by inertia. That is, for at least 40 kilometers, something (either a rocket or a rocket carrier) flew over the populated territory of the Russian Federation, leaving a trail in the form of smoke and noise from the operation of the turbojet engine. And all this is completely invisible? I do not believe
        1. +3
          17 May 2023
          But where is the smoke trail?

          Left far behind

          The solid propellant engine burned out in 5 seconds, the rocket gained Mach 4+ and flew 100 km by inertia, in the stratosphere along a ballistic trajectory, then dived on its target (aircraft)

          but fighters are maneuverable targets, they cannot be shot down

          Fighter for a rocket - a static object, the difference in speed is too great

          For aviation and anti-aircraft missiles
          there is a problem of intercepting high-speed targets at high altitudes (example SR-71), where they may not have enough energy. This does not apply to conventional aircraft at medium and low altitudes, they are too slow for a rocket
          1. 0
            17 May 2023
            3) Your versions?

            Klimov suggested that it could be the RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile. Allegedly, the Psheks had projects for the modernization of the Soviet complexes Kub and Buk for it. According to him, things didn’t seem to come to a real prototype, but conceptually and documentarily the project was completely ready. And believe it or not - see for yourself
            1. +1
              17 May 2023
              Quote: Dante
              Klimov suggested that it could be the RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile. Allegedly, the psheks had

              he is in torpedoes and the Navy, yes ... understands
              not in air defense.

              SAM in the WZU-2 variant, on SURN 1С91: RIM-7M "Sea sparrow".
              It didn't work, back in the 2010s
              Then it is possible to attract the Czech version of the 2K12 "Cube" modernization by RETIA in cooperation with MBDA, which allows the use of AIM-7E or Aspide 2000 missiles ...
              with ZUR 162, 1 copy was made
              Kit 2K12 Cube with RIM-162 ESSM missiles, upgraded by Wojskowe Zakłady Ubezpieczenia No. 2 in Grudziadz.
        2. +1
          17 May 2023
          Quote: Santa Fe
          The solid propellant engine burned out in 5 seconds, the rocket gained Mach 4+ and flew 100 km by inertia, in the stratosphere along a ballistic trajectory, then dived on its target (aircraft)

          Stop stop stop.
          1) If something flies in the stratosphere at Mach 4,5 (somewhere, by no means less than 5tkm / h), then it should glow like a Christmas tree on all radars in all ranges (including IR). On airborne fighters, that's for sure
          2) So, let's say the launch was carried out 50 km from the target. Flight time (we will throw out acceleration, although every second is fundamentally important here) at least 50 km / 5000 km / h = 0,01 hours or 40 seconds. It's crazy how long. Yes, even if the launch range is 25 km, 20 seconds to go nuts how long to detect. Let it take 10 seconds to detect and process the target, there is at least 10 more to make a decision. For 10 seconds, the pilots did not give an attack signal, did not press the catapult, did not perform a maneuver?

          Such a hypothesis does not grow together
      2. 0
        17 May 2023
        Quote: Santa Fe
        The Russian Aerospace Forces met in an air battle with the main long-range air-to-air missile of Western production AIM-120 AMRAAM.

        belay
        On March 23, 2014, a Turkish Air Force F-16 from 182 Squadron shot down a Syrian Air Force MiG-23BN from an AIM-120C-7 aircraft.

        On 24 November 2015, a Turkish Air Force F-16 shot down a Russian Su-24M attack aircraft with an AIM-120 missile over northern Syria after it allegedly crossed Turkish airspace.

        On March 1, 2020, Turkish Air Force F-16s shot down two Su-24s belonging to the Syrian Air Force with the help of two AIM-120C-7 aircraft.
        On March 3, 2020, a Syrian Air Force L-39 was shot down over Idlib by Turkish Air Force F-16s from Turkish airspace using an AIM-120C-7 at a distance of about 45 km.
        As of 2020, this was the longest engagement range of an AIM-120.
        Quote: Santa Fe
        The 120+ km AIM-120 launch range data given in the article is valid for

        brochures and not very knowledgeable bloggers
        Quote: Santa Fe
        And the conclusion is one

        it remains only to find carriers of AN / APG-65 or AN / APG-63 or AN / APG-66 or AN / APG-68 (do not tape it, instead of regular radars for Ukrainian MiG-29s, do not offer SU-27)
        The AIM-120xx has a launch mode: autonomous-inertial with guidance to the jammer, but (!) To find a target in the sky and determine the parameters of its movement without radar - no way (if you do not use the latest technique:3 sandals to the right of the moon)
        Quote: Santa Fe
        Fighter for a rocket - a static object, the difference in speed is too great

        fool

        Those. smart guys eat up people's money in vain?


        It will be necessary to unsubscribe to the Academy of Sciences of the Russian Federation in order to rebut the works
        V. L. Kan and A. S. Kel’zon, On exact solutions of proportional navigation equations, Izvestiya vuzov. Mathematics, 1962.
        and On stable and unstable trajectories of proportional navigation, Doklady AN SSSR. 1960.
        issued, and at the same time to the Americans, so that the Pentagon's leaky budget would not be sawed
        Zarchan P. Tactical and Strategic Missile Guidance. Published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, 2012
        Mahapatra PR, Shukla US Accurate solution of proportional navigation for maneuvering targets.
        IEEE Transactions on Aerospace and Electronic Systems, AES-25, 1 (Jan. 1989).
  32. +6
    17 May 2023
    Yeah...
    Russia has lost the status of a great space power - the troops do not receive at all, or do not have the opportunity to receive space intelligence data in a timely manner.
    Serviceable A-50 aircraft and their modifications, judging by the publications, are few units throughout the country. And there wasn't one in the area.
    The conclusion is clear - our top leadership (the guarantor and the Minister of Defense) does not care about the current situation at all, and perhaps they do not even suspect that intelligence and communications are very important.
    And there is another minor question: does the SU-35 have no way to see missiles flying at it?
    1. +4
      17 May 2023
      SU-35 - what, there is no way to see missiles flying at it?

      Radar Irbis sees only in a narrow field of view, straight ahead. Optical station also.

      There are no other means capable of detecting a small-sized object from a distance of tens of kilometers on a fighter

      Radar exposure warning systems, radar detectors have been used since the 50s. The AIM-120 missile has an active radar head. But apparently our radiation cannot be caught, because the AIM-120 was made by Raytheon, and there they only know how to cut money, along with the “failed” F-35
      1. +1
        17 May 2023
        Here is what the "experts" so despised by the author write:
        "... There are two main versions.
        The first version is the usual work of the air defense of Laos in the panic mode "kill everyone - God in the next world will sort into friends and foes."
        Due to the fact that a year later, the system of state recognition, or as it is also called the "Friend or Foe" system, does not work rather than works, and nothing has been done about it so far, I do not exclude that its creators, manufacturers and controllers are already without exception Heroes of Ukraine at least in the rank of colonel with sickly numbers on the accounts.
        It's good that there is no war, otherwise they would all have to be shot, otherwise everything is fine. All according to plan. Eliminate shortcomings, distribute state awards.
        ...
         Well, the second version is that it was the enemy’s air defense that worked. There are rumors in her favor, but no facts have been provided yet. The range and height of the defeat of one of the targets crosses out almost all the air defense systems that the enemy and NATO have, except for the Patriot and S-300, taking into account the assumption that the battery operated from the line of contact.
        ...
         100% the reason and the culprit will be clear when they find the striking elements of warhead missiles. They will make everything clear. But there is a nuance. If the air defense of Laos was shot down, then it will be necessary to transfer someone to another higher position, or even fire them, so the striking elements may not be found, or they may be found and shown what they need.
        Approximately all the same must be done if the air defense of Laos is innocent.
        About .... such a battery of air defense systems on the LBS, you need to try very hard."

        If anything, I do not intend to discredit anyone in any way, and do not support any version. All questions to the "expert" who expressed them.
        On the other hand, one cannot deny the professional corporatism and mutual responsibility adopted in professional circles (not only here, but all over the world) - so not a single medical expert will ever confirm in any court the accusation of another doctor of improper treatment that led to harm health or death of the patient
      2. +4
        17 May 2023
        Quote: Santa Fe
        There are no other means capable of detecting a small-sized object from a distance of tens of kilometers on a fighter

        The Su-35S has an onboard defense system, it includes 6 attack missile detector units. The SAR has no restrictions on the view in azimuth and elevation.


        1. +1
          18 May 2023
          Well, our Su-24M shot down in Syria also allegedly had a similar system:
          airborne defense complex BKO-2 "Karpaty". It consists of a warning station SPO-15M "Bereza", heat direction finder for missile launch warning L082 "Mak-UL". active jamming station SPS-161/162 "Geran" and automatic jamming machine APP-50 with twelve 50-mm false thermal targets (LTTs). BKO is controlled by a separate digital computer "Neon" (on the "clean" Su-24 there was only one on-board computer).


          (information from here: http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bomber/su24m.html)

          Somehow it didn’t help that Su-24M at all ... Here on the site I asked questions about it, they answered me that this system is generally excellent, but only supposedly it doesn’t “see” missiles flying “behind-top” !!!

          This is what kind of stupid person piled such a system that it does not see missiles from the most trump direction for an attack ???
          1. +2
            18 May 2023
            Quote: PavelT
            Well, our Su-24M shot down in Syria also allegedly had a similar system

            L082 and its older L083 are heat direction finders of the generation before last, they see only the torch of a working rocket engine. Today they are hopelessly outdated.

            Quote: PavelT
            Somehow it didn’t help that Su-24M at all ...

            At what stage of the flight was he shot down? What weapon? What was the direction of the attack?

            Quote: PavelT
            Here on the site I asked questions about this, they answered me that this system is generally excellent, but only supposedly it does not "see" missiles flying "behind-top" !!!

            This is what kind of stupid person piled such a system that it does not see missiles from the most trump direction for an attack ???

            The direction finder is symmetrical, it sees equally in all directions. Unless, of course, no elements of the fuselage interfere.
            1. -1
              25 May 2023
              Here: https://ak-12.livejournal.com/35650.html
              it is alleged that a Turkish fighter fired a missile from behind-from below.
              If so, then it is clear what the problem is.
              Maybe I was wrong about "behind-top", maybe the one who argued with me then.
      3. 0
        17 May 2023
        Well, that means everyone just hit the planes from the side, the radars simply did not see the missiles. It's just such a place. This means a defect in the military-industrial complex
        I also think it was NASAM rockets
        Nothing is visible on the video, because the rockets flew from the other side of where the helicopter was filmed. and apparently the rocket did not fly at all at low altitudes, but already on the course of a helicopter.
  33. -4
    17 May 2023
    Quote from iran

    And here is a paper general with a toy machine gun pulled himself up from his sofa. He's doing just fine, just in the last minute he shot thousands of enemies with his machine gun. And he will come from school and destroy thousands more

    Well, let's say, you're more likely to be my sons, judging by your still inferior horizons and general idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXblife. In addition, the fighting is taking place relatively close to us. Something I probably know better than you apparently.
    It's not that I'm fine. I don't raise a yelp like you. But you have a job. Apparently, there is not enough ability for a more worthy one.
    Well, what are you all pushing for "sofaness" here? What are you yourself?))
  34. +2
    17 May 2023
    Air defense right now, you can not ask questions. They are reforming hi
  35. 0
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Alexander Emrys
    In fairness, the American drape from Afghanistan was a purely political decision. The American military held Afghan firmly, they even had almost no losses in recent years.


    No, just purely military.
    They did not hold Afghanistan in any way. They sat out in the barracks, where losses are unlikely. Almost the entire territory was controlled by the Taliban and ISIS. And the local army, trained by the Yankees, is generally incomprehensible where did it go, throwing weapons worth billions of dollars.
  36. +1
    17 May 2023
    Quote: kamakama
    1) Sabotage right at the airfield - fragmentation ammunition mounted on the hull or what?


    No, not necessarily. It is enough to place something extraneous in the air intake.
    There is another version: third-party interference in the work of the avionics. Hacking, in short. If you hack the on-board electronics, then you can do anything with the on-board systems (possibly with on-board weapons).
  37. +5
    17 May 2023
    The photograph of the keel or part of the wing clearly shows torn cuts and holes and they are very characteristic of rod
    fragments of the warhead of the missiles of the S-300 PT complex, which have two types of rods of square and round cross-section, and when a missile of the S300 PS and PT complex is blown up, even tens of meters from the aircraft, the crew has no chance of surviving, since the warhead damage radius of 146 kg is very large.
  38. +1
    17 May 2023
    Quote from Alexwar
    Judging by the news, these groups have now started setting fires, setting a lot of things on fire. According to the map of fires, set fire to the site from Novosibirsk to Kurgan, where military plants are located there and burn


    There were no fires before.
    By the way, there are a lot of fires in the United States, even the elite cities in California have found themselves in the danger zone more than once. Our "pronin" tried?
    We simply "optimized" some of our structures by adopting a new Forest Code (they reduced the number of foresters, in other words), so the forests began to burn more often. Simply because fires are not detected in a timely manner when they are easier to extinguish. In the West, by the way, the problems are similar.
    And arson can be caused by purely commercial interests.
  39. +3
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    About strange gestures of goodwill?

    Well, it's obvious that it was a retreat. There would be no retreat, then the parts left without supplies would simply be killed. And they were left without supplies as a result of poor planning. Planning is not done by privates and sergeants.
  40. 0
    17 May 2023
    With all versions, the leadership of the Aerospace Forces is to blame, who failed in advance, before the start of the NMD, to develop tactics for the use of aviation in modern conditions, when the enemy also has an air defense system. For example, the Israeli Air Force is successfully operating against the Syrian air defense, armed with our modern air defense systems.
    Dmitry Konanykhin, writer, host of the Russian Radio University scientific and educational program on Radio Russia: “I wonder why we, the homeland of Nesterov and Chkalov, give birth to gray-haired grandfathers over and over again, who either order the pilots to fly “pancake”, then fly high and safe so as not to spoil the picture in PowerPoint? And how long will grandfathers act to laugh at NATO? <…> When did Soviet aviation suffer the biggest losses in the first jet war? losses in the first jet war? In Korea in 1950, when it acted in a stereotyped way. When did Soviet jet aviation inflict the largest one-time losses on the American Air Force in Korea in 1950? When it was not the PowerPoint rangers that led it into battle, but Kozhedub's falcons, who acted proactively, with fiction, aggressively and prudently.When did Soviet aviation suffer the largest one-time losses from the Americans in Korea in 1950?When instructors went into battle, acting strictly according to the instructions of the land and the Charter. Was Kozhedub distracted by compiling PowerPoint reports to Stalin? Would Iosif Vissarionovich Kozhedub understand if he received a beautifully designed report from Korea, lovingly licked by PowerPoint rangers? I would like to listen to the gray-haired strategic experts who yesterday strategically broadcast from the screens, they say, everything is garbage. Although, it is better not to give them a word. We will be more whole. Yes, and, nevertheless, maybe those who already have the experience of hundreds of sorties over the glowing radars, like a New Year tree, fascist Ukraine, will be in command of the air war? Or will we bombard the enemy with PowerPoint presentations in the old fashioned way, a miracle of American office thought?"
  41. +4
    17 May 2023
    Who is to blame and what to do ? Eternal questions in Russia. They ruined people, equipment and no one, as always, is to blame, especially in our time, the generals are important as glued to their places and none of them are nightmares, impunity strikes lawlessness and irresponsibility, for which, in such situations, they are so happy, we have it up there, someone is responsible for something or only theft, nepotism, kickbacks rule????
  42. +5
    17 May 2023
    -Vladimir Vladimirovich, what happened to the planes?
    -They fell...
  43. 0
    17 May 2023
    No, you still need to write a script for the browser that puts the Author field at the beginning of the article
  44. +4
    17 May 2023
    The options are interesting.
    they are approximately voiced by unpaid experts on other sites.

    As long as there are no remnants of missiles, nothing is clear. It is not clear why there was no trace of the missiles. etc.

    As with the UAV attack on the Kremlin, the delay is not in our favor. When there are remnants of THEIR missiles / UAVs in the LDNR, they often show right away.
    And even if they show the remnants of the downed Bayraktar near the Kremlin, they will find fault, they say they brought the remnants from the LDNR, 14 days have passed ...
  45. +9
    17 May 2023
    The silence of MO for so many days is simply shameful.
    They don't seem to know how to justify themselves.
    And what can they say? Will they beat themselves up?
    After all, we have to admit that after the entire list of jambs made over a year by the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff, and now after the last egregious case, after numerous scandals, that changes in the Ministry of Defense are overdue and overripe.
    Well, a country with a population of 150 million (with new territories) cannot compete with Ukraine for more than a year with their remaining population of 20 million.
    Therefore, many states do not support us, wondering how the second army of the world cannot cope with the twentieth.
    The weak are not respected. And you don’t need about Western weapons, do we have no weapons?
    There is no need to look for excuses, the fact is the fact - the army turned out to be unprepared for modern warfare.
    And the angry, strong bear turned out to be a harmless hamster. It's time for the bear to recover and accept the brutality.
    And the fault in this is not ordinary soldiers and officers who are fighting at the front, they are heroes, and those who are guilty, in this situation, they are at the top.
    Everything depends on one person with the powers of the emperor. But he is in no hurry to intervene and change something.
    As they say, do not rearrange the furniture, but change the "girls".
    Meanwhile, the dissatisfaction of ordinary citizens with the situation at the front is growing.
    And not only at the front, but also the incomprehensible position of our Foreign Ministry, which swallows all insults, escaping with yet another concern.
    Probably someone will say that they say, well, you quickly sorted everything out. To this I will answer - I am a citizen of Russia and I am not indifferent to what is happening with my Motherland. I think like most here at VO. And everyone should be responsible for the work entrusted to him. For almost forty years I worked in real production and in various positions and managed. Questions arose and solutions were found.
    You sit in a high chair, you can’t cope, go away, be a man.
    Or will we wait for another slap in the face from the ukrofascists?
    We have no other choice but to win, and we have discord, everyone pulls in their own direction, often personal interests prevail over state ones. Maybe that's why sometimes incomprehensible decisions are made.
    I wrote a lot, but it just hurt.
    I have no other country, no other Motherland. Born here, die here. My parents, grandfathers, great-grandfathers are buried here.
    And the dead pilots will be eternally remembered.
    .
    1. 0
      17 May 2023
      The silence of MO for so many days is simply shameful.

      There is much hidden in this silence.

      As in this phrase of the deputy.
      1. 0
        17 May 2023
        Quote: Konnick
        The silence of MO for so many days is simply shameful.

        There is much hidden in this silence.

        As in this phrase of the deputy.

        Of course, the investigation will take time. But they were obliged to voice the fact and offer condolences to the families of the victims.
        Otherwise it's just rudeness.
        However, I don’t expect anything from this MO.
        The results of their activities are well known.
        It's time for the Supreme to intervene.
  46. +4
    17 May 2023
    Map for clarity

    Aircraft crash sites are placed in a circle with a diameter of 30 km.
    For more or less real versions of the necessary information, the official bodies will naturally not announce.
    So far, it can be assumed that the SU-34 was bombing planned targets, for example, the bridge over the Strativa River not far from the border (there were strikes on such bridges by our VKS), and the SU-35 covered it.
    Accordingly, the Armed Forces of Ukraine could expect the next sortie to “finish off” the target and set up an air defense ambush near the border on the returning aircraft.
    It is not known whether the helicopters acted in conjunction with these aircraft or carried out a separate task to cover Klintsy (the second largest city in the Bryansk region) or the Druzhba oil pipeline. Drone attacks in this direction and in other places along the border are carried out regularly.
    Another unknown in history is the order in which the sides were shot down.
    Well, the most "intricate" version that I heard was that supposedly the operation of the EW helicopter was not agreed with the anti-aircraft gunners and the drones of the Armed Forces of Ukraine flying towards Klintsy also worked out air defense. As a result, the electronic warfare of the helicopter "landed" enemy drones, but also rejected anti-aircraft missiles and they were redirected to the returning aircraft and the PPS helicopter. And in the EW helicopter itself at the airfield, an explosive device was planted by saboteurs.
    So you can build a lot of versions against the background of unknown ones. But the fact of the tragedy on the face. Pilots died on their territory, modern units were destroyed.
    1. +1
      17 May 2023
      Thank you for the information on the topic, for me it is interesting.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        18 May 2023
        But no one thought about it. They said to withdraw troops abroad, they were taken abroad. Although there is a place for defense is not convenient.

        It could be so. Almost a hundred kilometers of difficult-to-control terrain were removed, battle formations were compacted and secured from shelling and DRGs
  47. +5
    17 May 2023
    And why is the DRG version the craziest? There are enough forest areas in the Bryansk region and in the adjacent territories of Ukraine adjacent to it. Add here the fact that thanks to the "wise" economic policy of the Russian leadership, there are enough empty villages there.
    So for the DRG there is expanse. Moreover, who is there to catch them. Our army is, as it were, two million, but there is a little more than one military personnel, the remaining nine hundred are almost a thousand, no one knows who.
    And then a quote:
    The version is not something that does not stand up to criticism, it is even somehow not easy to criticize it. It turns out a non-science fiction action movie: four groups of Ukrainian specialists enter the territory of Russia, are located on the route of planes and helicopters flying from their bases, and the bases are in different places, I hope this is understandable.

    The only thing that is clear here is that the author, not only does not own the topic, has not even made an attempt to figure it out. At least in this way, see what remains of the current Soviet heritage there.
    Blue civilians, red military, gray abandoned:
    https://maps.aopa.ru/#lon/34.844877/lat/53.603515/z/8/ll/a/bl/gm/p/791
    And further, even military helicopters do not fly over the Russian Federation just as they please. In the airfield area, these are established routes and flight zones, in other cases everything is strictly according to the MVL.
    So if you get a DRG task to hit several air targets, then this is quite doable. Moreover, there was clearly more than one DRG operating there (in relation to the events mentioned).
    Plus, the radius of destruction of modern MANPADS reaches 5000 m on average, which greatly expands the possibility of hitting targets at low altitudes.
    And last but not least, video.
    https://vk.com/video-157328825_456243632
    This is nothing but the defeat of MANPADS.
  48. +2
    17 May 2023
    Most likely they used the SAMP-T air defense system, a direct hit + warhead detonation at the time of the hit could well destroy the aircraft completely.
  49. +4
    17 May 2023
    The author in vain rolls a barrel at the "warriors". If not for them, then only local residents would have known about the plane crashes. MO is still silent, like a fish on ice. I wonder if condolences were brought to the families of the victims, at least in private? At least the same regimental commander and chief of staff?
  50. +3
    17 May 2023
    The author needs to tighten up the materiel. The NSAMS has a range of up to 40 km in the SAM version. What was indicated 120 km is the launch range of the aviation version from the aircraft. The S-300 and BUK-M1 versions with a non-standard missile (there is a version with RIM-162 ESSM), possibly Petriot, are suitable for the version with air defense systems.
    1. +1
      17 May 2023
      Ukraine could launch rockets that NASAM uses from a heavy drone. Also an option they are difficult to detect
      1. 0
        18 May 2023
        Interesting idea!
        If I'm not mistaken, it turns out that this is generally the first drone in history, the carrier of an air defense missile.
  51. 0
    17 May 2023
    The author asks the following questions regarding the investigation of such an emergency. It’s just that the stationary targets were not destroyed: the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, bridges in western Ukraine, the intelligence building, the SBU, the Cabinet of Ministers, the Ministry of Finance.
    They work quietly in Kyiv
  52. +2
    17 May 2023
    @Roman Skomorokhov
    only for courage and integrity to put + hi
    /I hope he doesn’t get punished for “discrimination.”
    In the dry residue:
    1. There is only one video of a helicopter, it is almost 100% correlated with helicopters being damaged by MANPADS in Syria, Ukraine, etc.
    Moreover, the missile overtook the helicopter after running out of its fuel, and the helicopter seemed to have already begun an evasive maneuver.
    That's where it flies, and that's where it crashes.
    “Holes” in the blades: the propeller rotates, in addition to the striking elements in the rocket there is entrails (gyros, parts of the body, batteries, and pieces of the tail boom fly. Adding the speed vectors of the blade and everything extraneous will give this.
    The warhead of the missile defense system would have destroyed the helicopter in a completely different way.
    2. It is enough for collaborators to record the fact of takeoff and type, and you can’t make a mistake about where they are flying. Next is an innocent message in the cart/whatsapp, but also on this site
    3. “The Silence of the Lambs” and the press secretary (whose wives and children live in NATO countries (or have citizenship of NATO countries), this version looks very plausible, especially considering the Su-34 and even more so the Su-35.
    They are not so easy, and the failure of the crews to eject indicates that they were seriously injured or had already died.
    MANPADS warheads cannot do this.
    Remembering the nuclear submarine Kursk, Su-24 in Syria, Dr. Lisa, Il-20 in Syria... silence is a jamb syndrome.
    4. To use the AIM-120 you need AN/APG-65 or AN/APG-63 or AN/APG-66 or AN/APG-68
    Ranges of 100+ are advertising and have no relation to reality.
    The carrier must be at a maximum altitude (10-14) km, have a speed vector exactly at the target and its modulus of at least 800 km/h, the target should not maneuver and move away, but fly towards the meeting.
    The AIM-120X has a launch mode: autonomous-inertial with guidance to the jammer, but (!) it’s impossible to find a target in the sky and determine the parameters of its movement without radar.

    5. The most unlikely version.
    The author simply does not imagine the scale and complexity of an operation of this kind and its danger.
    Even taking into account that Ukrainians are very creative, this is from the realm of science fiction.
    If it has been realized, then there is nothing to comment on: and this is no longer a bungling, this is “different”
  53. +2
    17 May 2023
    Questions, questions... The silence of the Moscow Region and the authorities in general is a sign of weakness and narcissism at the same time. But there is the Internet, social networks, military correspondents, telegrams, thank God this is not amenable to such control.
  54. +1
    17 May 2023
    And yes. I was surprised to learn about a new word in the Russian language - “happened”.
    It was always "happened"


    For the gerundial participle "happened" the test word is the verb "happened", and not the noun "incident"
    1. +1
      17 May 2023
      What happened is the prepositional masculine and neuter singular form of the participle “happened.” You will find it in dictionaries, there are many of them on the Internet, and the word is commonly used by native speakers.
      1. 0
        17 May 2023
        I admit it. According to dictionaries, this option is also allowed. So I apologize.
        Although, just like a native speaker of the language hurts the eyes and ears - it’s the same as if someone said or wrote something like bun or sausage
  55. +5
    17 May 2023
    I read and remembered the YouTube channel “Native Council of Workers”. And a good analysis of the war in August 2008. How we lost planes. The simultaneous loss of 4 aircraft in one day is the work of Ukrainian air defense. And sloppiness on the part of the pilots and their command.
    We haven’t been beaten for a long time, I don’t even remember when our guys were shot down like that. There were losses from MANPADS, but we haven’t heard anything from an air defense system for a long time. Apparently they flew along the same route, violating all the instructions, and relaxed.
    I remember how we participated in the liquidation of explosions at military warehouses in 2001. At first it’s scary, increased caution, everything is according to the instructions. Then dullness, “loss of vigilance.” Then bang and wounded. And again, for a day or two or three, everyone was careful, then again there was “sloppiness.” “And so it will do” until new bang, bang.
  56. +1
    17 May 2023
    It’s very unpleasant to realize this, but we are losing this war and against the backdrop of this there could be very unpleasant consequences for the Russian Federation as a whole!
  57. +2
    17 May 2023
    Many thanks to the author! At least something became clear. All the same, it looks like a fusion of American satellites and fascist air defense (an amateur’s view). And I’m incredibly sorry for our aces.
  58. 0
    17 May 2023
    To the version "collaborators and traitors"
    There was a Soviet film about the Great Patriotic War, where Soviet underground fighters, in the role of maintenance personnel at a German airfield, installed mines on German planes. The mines were activated as we climbed.
    Why, theoretically, is not an option in this case?
  59. 0
    17 May 2023
    I'll add two more versions.
    1, A drone with an air-to-air missile or delivers an anti-aircraft mine on the ground along the route of the aircraft.
    2. An old missile defense system or MLRS missile on which an air combat missile with passive or active homing is equipped in place of the warhead.
  60. +5
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Stas157
    the unanswerable question: will anyone answer for this?

    Indeed the question is unsolvable. After all, all the documents were signed very illegibly. All jokes aside, this is the system. A system in which there is no feedback, there are no punishments not even for mistakes but for incompetence. Because specialists are not needed for positions, loyal people are needed. In simple words, those who know how to lick their superiors well, write beautiful reports (without blots and with many pages), “bring a small share to the top” and... well, in fact, nothing else is needed for a career. So yes, the question is unsolvable. There is no one to allow it
  61. +4
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Ilya-spb
    And you can’t be relaxed when the enemy is close, cunning and equipped with the most modern weapons

    The funny thing is that there was no enemy initially (until 2014). The strategists of the Russian Federation themselves created it. Well, the citizens also helped and supported.
  62. +2
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Negro
    The famous Yugoslav F-117 was also caught

    There was at least a justification for such behavior, complete air supremacy and truly suppressed air defense
  63. +2
    17 May 2023
    Quote: huntsman650
    TNW will solve everything, it’s high time! The process will end in victory

    Or a retaliatory strike. Or are you, like the Kremlin, only considering one option for the future?
  64. +5
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    So forum users be careful, even your neighbor can turn out to be such a homegrown saboteur.

    I support it, it’s high time to bring everyone to clean water. Who should be imprisoned, who should be shot. Then shoot those who did the shooting. More paranoia to the god of paranoia
  65. 0
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Vasya Vasiliev_3
    where is the SU-35 missile defense

    What do you mean? How exactly should the Su-35 defend against missiles? Pull the Shell on a string or something?
    1. -2
      17 May 2023
      The Su-35 had an attack missile detector. Six modules with full spherical visibility were planned. It was called soer.
  66. +1
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Boris Sergeev
    That’s why Putin became quiet, knowing full well that all his recent speeches had no effect.

    No, he knows perfectly well that nothing will happen to his mind. At the next elections everything will be business as usual again. What will you (the people) do to him? He doesn't read comments.
  67. +7
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Tagan
    We spent eight years preparing, pulling weapons from all over the world. Forgot or didn’t know?

    Specifically, what weapons and how many?
    I remember that it was difficult to “prescribe” bulletproof vests and helmets for them. Stingers didn’t even think of delivering, not like Patriots, Sumpt-T, Nasams or Iris.
    Remind me, please, what was supplied there over 8 years?
  68. +1
    17 May 2023
    Quote: north 2
    So if he catches saboteurs in batches already beyond the Urals

    Or they don’t catch it, but just pretend. Local alcoholics decided to steal a copper cable - the sabotage group was exposed, a star on my shoulder straps! I would rather believe that than the fact that someone is being caught there.
  69. +1
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Maluck
    Therefore, the search for targets and target designation itself could well be carried out using other means, for example, AWACS aircraft

    And the AWACS aircraft doesn’t “glow”; it’s just “stealth”. And what is its range, and where did it “work” from?
  70. +1
    17 May 2023
    I think that there is nothing strange and there are no deaths of airplane pilots. The defeat was carried out on a collision course. Most likely they died in the cabins. The Kingdom of heaven.
  71. +5
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Tikhonov_Alexander
    Russia has lost its status as a great space power

    She never had such status. The USSR had such a status. The Russian Federation is not the USSR, it is another country.
    Quote: Tikhonov_Alexander
    And there is another minor question: does the SU-35 have no way to see missiles flying at it?

    No, but how will he “see” her? Suggest options for how to detect an attacking missile (not radar exposure, but a missile).
    1. +1
      17 May 2023
      Quote from: Alex_mech
      Suggest options for detecting an attacking missile

      The onboard defense complex includes:
      - radio intelligence station;
      - missile launch heat direction finder;
      - automatic passive jammer APP-50
      - active electronic jamming station "Sorption" (in two containers on the wingtips);
      - control device based on on-board computer.
      + OLS-35
      Viewing and automatic tracking area - 90 degrees in azimuth and from -15 to + 60 degrees in elevation
      Detection range of non-afterburning air targets (front / rear hemispheres) q <15 °:
      - 50 / 90 km
      + H035 "Irbis"
      Target detection range on catch-up courses against the ground with an EPR of 0,01 sq.m - up to 90 km
      - on people they meet and in the skies they do not reveal,
      But with Doppler selection at these speeds, it's easy.
      no radar exposure

      AIM-120 has ARGS, it emits not sour.
      Before launch, the radar or air defense missile system will always work
      Based on the nature of the radiation incident on the laser, the automation itself determines:
      -I'm looking for you
      -they found you
      -you were taken as an escort
      -the target is actively illuminated
      Naturally shows the direction “from”

      The infrared missile warning system consists of six sensors located in the forward fuselage to provide all-aspect coverage. The system can detect the launch of a MANPADS missile at a range of 10 km, an air-to-air missile - 30 km, and a large surface-to-air missile - from 50 km. Two laser irradiation detection sensors are located on the sides in the forward part of the fuselage. They can detect laser rangefinders at a range of 30 km.

      The radar detection system for the Su-35 consists of the L150-35 “Pastel” system developed by the Omsk TsKBA company, which stands on modern Russian combat aircraft. L150 also provides target coordinates for anti-radar missiles.
  72. -2
    17 May 2023
    Quote: 2 level advisor
    Andrey, in your comments, through one, CIPSO is mentioned .. You really are everyone - who disagrees with you, do you think CIPSO?

    Well, why simplify it so much? After all, you don’t agree with me, but I haven’t spoken in the same vein about this yet, have I?
    Let's put it this way: there are TsIPSO on the payroll, and there are idiots who, in fact, perform the same functions as the first ones. For example, there is also a liberota who, while fighting the current government, did not find anything smarter than to act like the tsipsota, using exactly the same methods, in fact taking them as allies. Those. There is no difference between them in terms of the expected effect.
    Since you have compiled statistics on my comments, I think it will not be difficult to analyze the comments of the character to whom I replied. Looking at what points he tries to hit from comment to comment, and systematically, a quite clear picture emerges. All this diarrhea that he squeezes out is, of course, accompanied by plaintive whining and hopelessness. All these psychological techniques and templates are as old as the mammoth, and such figures lack the ability to improvise. Exactly what he gives out can be found among his brothers, sometimes under the same article, perhaps with the words rearranged in a different sequence. Take a closer look.
  73. +2
    17 May 2023
    Let's give another version - it was a stealth NATO fighter.
  74. +4
    17 May 2023
    The Russian Defense Ministry has already “answered” the question of how our aircraft were shot down. The response arrived from the patriot’s battery, whose location near Kiev was more or less known, but the second most likely carried out a combat mission near the border of the Russian Federation. The Ukrainian Armed Forces know how to act riskily and daringly. This disaster showed that the Russian Armed Forces simply do not have intelligence as a continuously operating system.
  75. +4
    17 May 2023
    Well, if out of the blue 9 people died, whose deaths could have been avoided. What are the real losses?
    1. -1
      17 May 2023
      And these are real losses. Is not it so?
  76. 0
    17 May 2023
    Another “truthful” article from Skomorokhov. Lately, by the way, long before the North Military District, Skomorokhov has developed a “patriotic” manner, not so noticeably, of extolling the successes (imaginary or real) of the enemy and throwing shit at Russia (articles about the “victory” of May 9, the “shame” of Russian artillery and the like). It seems that Roman is on salary at TsIPSO.
    1. 0
      18 May 2023
      Quote: fyvaprold
      It seems that Roman is on salary at TsIPSO.
      He is for the USSR, and then everything is according to Machiavelli:
      ...for I doubt that schisms ever end well. Moreover, if the enemy approaches, defeat is inevitable, since the weaker party will join the attackers, and the stronger party will not be able to defend the city.

      A funny fact: at every opportunity, the communists remember that some whites collaborated with the Germans, but they themselves are ready to do the same.
  77. 0
    17 May 2023
    My thoughts are that if the radars of the planes and helicopters did not detect the missiles, then the speed of these missiles was clearly high.
  78. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        31 May 2023
        The aircraft is equipped with an L-150-35 radiation warning system (version L-150 (SPO)). It is equipped with an optical data transmission system for communication between aircraft of the group when flying in radio silence mode. The receivers/transmitters of this system in the form of short stripes on the sides of the cabin, on the keels and wingtips are one of the most noticeable external differences from previous modifications. SPO L-150 “Pastel”. Determines the fact of irradiation by an enemy radar station, determines the direction and type of radar . Controls the electronic warfare complex, gives target designation to the passive radar homing heads (PRHS) of anti-radar missiles (ARM). Received frequency range: from 1.2 to 18 GHz (bands D, E, F, G, H, I, J according to NATO classification).TTX
        Viewing sector: 360° in azimuth, ±30° in elevation
        Simultaneously guided missile launchers: up to 2 pcs.
        Maximum number of controlled PRRs: 6 pcs.
        Data bank on various types of radars: 128 cells.
        Mean square bearing error: from 3° to 15° depending on range and direction.
        Communication lines used for interfacing: GOST R 52070-2003, GOST 18977-79 (analogous to ARINC 429) and RTM 1495-77 (ARINCFF).
        Weight: 47,2 kg (35 kg - main module; 12,2 kg - expandable device module). With antennas and microwave units - 52,44 kg.
  79. +1
    17 May 2023
    Quote: Negro
    no shortage of pilots. Most likely they will not be useful in such quantities at all.

    Exactly. To their infantry, to their infantry. Why are these pilots? Why submariners? What about the astronauts? All to the infantry.
  80. 0
    17 May 2023
    Quote: AAK
    Su-34, in which the pilots are in a titanium capsule that can withstand a direct hit by a 20mm projectile, and the capsule, EMNIP, fires back in the event of a missile hit

    It’s unlikely that anything will be shot back. Dying in a capsule or on an airplane is the same thing
  81. +2
    17 May 2023
    Fine. They shot down a helicopter with electronic warfare and there was no protection, and they immediately attacked the remaining targets. Plus they hit the sides of planes and helicopters; apparently there are no normal radars there. The helicopter flew and did not shoot missile decoys, which was also a minus.
    Well, on the topic, Algeria refused to buy the Su-35 because of the radars.
    https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/321022/
    As you can see, there was a radar in front and obviously there were no radars on the sides.
    https://dzen.ru/a/YDybpnMvPH9i9RYU
    Irbis-E was developed as a multi-purpose radar with a passive phased array antenna mounted on a two-stage hydraulic drive. It mechanically rotates the antenna by 60 in azimuth and 120 in roll, and the antenna device scans using an electronically controlled beam in azimuth and elevation in sectors exceeding 60. When using electronic control and mechanical additional rotation of the antenna, the maximum beam deflection angle reaches 120 - a capability that few fighter jets can boast.


    On lateral courses, the radar does not see anything, the pilots looked at the radars.
    And then we talk about why our planes are shot down in Ukraine, most of the videos that filmed the attacks were carried out on a lateral course
    1. +1
      18 May 2023
      Well, what arguments!

      The Su-35 turns out (who would have thought?!) no radars on the side of the plane!
      I would timidly like to ask you: and which fighters HAVE RADAR ON THE SIDE??? Please name the types of such fighters and these mysterious radars on their sides! And at the same time: why do they need such radars?

      By the way, your second picture seems to hint that the three foreign fighters also have radar looking forward!
      What a surprise, however... Who would have thought wassat
      1. 0
        31 May 2023
        The aircraft is equipped with an L-150-35 radiation warning system (version L-150 (SPO)). It is equipped with an optical data transmission system for communication between aircraft of the group when flying in radio silence mode. The receivers/transmitters of this system in the form of short stripes on the sides of the cabin, on the keels and wingtips are one of the most noticeable external differences from previous modifications. SPO L-150 “Pastel”. Determines the fact of irradiation by an enemy radar station, determines the direction and type of radar . Controls the electronic warfare complex, gives target designation to the passive radar homing heads (PRHS) of anti-radar missiles (ARM). Received frequency range: from 1.2 to 18 GHz (ranges D, E, F, G, H, I, J according to NATO classification). The answer is why the Russian radars did not work; the radars have their own transponders, but the missiles probably don’t. The downing of our SU-35s occurred while repelling a Ukrainian missile attack, perhaps the air defense missile was reoriented instead of missiles to the SU-35? The first case was near Donetsk when Russian air defense, while repelling a missile attack, shot down an SU-35. The Russians have officially confirmed this. And everyone knows the case in Syria, when the Syrians also shot down a Russian plane with an S-200 missile
  82. 0
    17 May 2023

    This is the habit of VKS to fly 2 planes at a time. Plus we need to set the task of protecting the sides of the aircraft, there are no radars there
    Or such aircraft should be accompanied by a fighter with 360-degree radar.
    They shot it down because they couldn’t see the radar, or the air defense in the area wasn’t working. It did NOT cover the air group, possibly due to helicopters with electronic warfare. It is doubtful that there is even our air defense somewhere in that area. Type shell C, or new beeches or tori, they should also move to the border or be on duty
    Conclusion: there was no air defense on the border, there were no side radars on the planes, and from the helicopters it’s not clear at all if there were any radars there
    The enemy, knowing the shortcomings of our systems, dragged the air defense to the borders and struck.
    Total minus 4 crews.



    1. 0
      18 May 2023
      This is the habit of VKS to fly 2 planes at a time.


      This is not a habit, this is a phenomenon of new times, when all the experience of the Soviet Air Force and AA was flushed down the toilet.
      And they approach combat missions using the habits of a gamer and adjusted for capitalist economy.
  83. 0
    18 May 2023
    The even more amazing thing about "losing 4 aircraft in one day within Russia's own borders" is that not a single pilot ejected. This likely indicates that the missiles struck within a very short period of time, or the aircraft/air defenses were unable to see them.
  84. The comment was deleted.
  85. -1
    18 May 2023
    Well, if you consider that after they deigned to destroy or damage two Patriot caliber installations, then I think the answer that the planes were destroyed is obvious
  86. 0
    18 May 2023
    Version number 3 is not so incredible. In the history of the USSR Air Force there were cases of treacherous flights of our aircraft on the territory of NATO countries. It could be that one of these four pilots (Su-35?) turned out to be a hidden patriot of Ukraine, and there are many of them in our country. And he flew out with the group with the aim of flying to the army of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The command was given to shoot down. Our air defense worked. Everyone was targeted. Anything can happen in this World.
  87. The comment was deleted.
  88. 0
    18 May 2023
    The helicopter over Klintsy was most likely shot down from an S-350. At least people saw an air defense system with one missile fired.
  89. 0
    18 May 2023
    What surprises you? Ukrainians fight from the heart, with passion and passion, they have a people’s war, a war for the survival of their rather vile but their country.
    But our staff rats, together with thieves in high ranks, cannot fart without regulations. Bureaucracy, lack of initiative, widespread theft and simply indifference of the senior command to this war.
    The result is obvious
  90. 0
    18 May 2023
    Quote: Lozovik
    it includes 6 attack missile detector units

    And what is the physical principle of their detection?
  91. 0
    18 May 2023
    Quote: Lozovik
    heat direction finders of the generation before last, they see only the torch of a working rocket engine

    Well, if the rocket engine no longer works, then the new generation is unlikely to notice.
  92. 0
    18 May 2023
    I think they were shot down by NASAM, aka a type of Iristov. Installations from Nasams are mounted on humvees once, the second is silent missiles, fired and forgotten, and it was written that this type of missile on approach only drops the cap from the guidance head. This means that the corrective blood is transmitted to her by conditioned signals. Before approach, no systems should have worked. These missiles have a range finder, they calculate the speed of the object, there is apparently a passive locator that tracks the distance of the target, and in short moments sends coordinates for the missile, it simply flies and flies on a side course. And already upon approach, infrared guidance is triggered and that’s it.
    The description says that the cap from the guidance head is reset when the target approaches, the missile can only be controlled remotely. And the fact that the missiles hit in the side speaks about the blindness of the missile
  93. +1
    18 May 2023
    Ours were dropped.
    Air defense is trying to bring down someone, but the “friend or foe” system is more in words.
    Anyone who has taken to the air will understand.
  94. 0
    21 May 2023
    Eternal memory to the fallen soldiers.
    Everlasting memory? This, I understand, is a figure of speech. Which means EXACTLY NOTHING.
    Eternal memory can only be AFTER the perpetrators, both on our side and on “their” side, are found and punished accordingly. Otherwise this memory - ugh! Spit and grind. Like "red lines".
  95. 0
    23 May 2023
    As our leader and teacher said - I.V. Stalin:".... Every victory and defeat has a position, military rank and full name..... "The truth is, in the current reality, we will never recognize our “heroes” - this is how the current “vertical” of unprofessionalism, irresponsibility, “not caring” is structured ", nepotism, outright sabotage and betrayal....

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"