Dutch klewang of the American fleet in the jungles of the Solomon Islands

66
Dutch klewang of the American fleet in the jungles of the Solomon Islands
American sailor with a cutlass in his hands at the cabinet with weapons boarding team of the US Navy cruiser Olympia, 1899.


Any fleet is strong in its traditions. True, it is sometimes very difficult to feel the fine line where tradition turns into inertia.



The American Navy, like, in fact, probably, any fleet in the 1860th century, was armed with a cutlass cutlass. In 1917, the rough cutlass was replaced by a more elegant cutlass of the classic "French" design, and with this weapon the US Navy entered the 1917th century with confidence. In 1860, when it became clear that the fleet would now grow rapidly in numbers, with the country's entry into the Great War, a cutlass of the XNUMX model appeared, which differed little from the XNUMX model, and the old model remained in service.

The First World War ended, the 1920s passed, the 1930s are in the yard, and the fleet still has boarding sabers as weapons in service and is not going to abandon them. In 1938 comes out naval manual on the actions of boarding teams, and it still describes the actions of sailors with cutlasses.

At the same time, the US Navy in the interwar period had the opportunity to understand that long-bladed edged weapons were disappearing into oblivion. There was a place where in the 1920s and 1930s the sailors of the US Navy had to take up arms, and then the last thing they thought about was cutlasses.

We are talking about US Navy patrols on the Yangtze River in China. On special patrol ships built in shipyards in China itself, American sailors provided navigation on the river, protected European traders and missionaries, and indicated the presence of American military forces in China. China at that time was a turbulent place, and American sailors in China had combat experience. Well, when it came to the “fight”, pistols, rifles, automatic rifles, submachine guns, machine guns were used ... Even wooden clubs and bayonets in places, but not sabers.

By the way, an interesting point, the Navy and Marine Corps were pioneers in the use of Thompson submachine guns in the US armed forces, ahead of the US Army in this matter, but more on that another time.


Photo from a private collection, boarding crew of the Guam patrol vessel, China, 1930s. The photo shows a Thompson submachine gun, a BAR automatic rifle and, below, a Mk. VI (US Navy designation for a Lewis machine gun).

And then December 1941 comes, the United States is already entering the Second World War and, as in 1917, naval commanders, realizing that the fleet will grow, are puzzled by the order of cutlasses. And then they run into problems. The search for a contractor turns into a disaster. The US Navy and Army are missing a lot, a lot, all manufacturers are simply drowning in army orders, missing deadlines, not having time to develop resources, etc.

Finding new contractors who have not previously dealt with long-bladed weapons is also not helpful, since they need time to reconfigure production and reconfigure capacities.

This is where the American manufacturer Milsco Manufacturing pops up, which has been making cutting sabers for almost two years now. True, not cutlasses, but Dutch klevangs, and not for the US armed forces, but for the Royal Dutch East Indies Army. But the weapons are similar in dimensions and characteristics, the manufacturer already has the capacity, and most importantly, the stock of finished products that were not shipped to the customer due to the start of the war. Well, the problem seems to be solved...

But then one of the naval chiefs suddenly says - it's 1942 in the yard, what cutlasses, klevangs, give up this business, firearms, and that's it. And although officially the cutlasses were removed from the supply of the American fleet only in 1949, in fact it was only a decision written on paper, made back in 1942 - the cutlasses were removed from the US Navy.

And this is where it ends story cutlasses of the US Navy ... and the history of the cutlasses of the US Army begins.

1942 was a year of growth problems for all structures of the US armed forces. Someone lacked a lot, someone just, some services were created in fact from scratch. What for one became old rubbish, for another it could be urgently needed. And now the US Army, which was soon to face Japanese soldiers in the jungles of the Solomon Islands, lacked such a simple thing as a machete. It seems to be an easy-to-manufacture tool, almost a garden one, but the units should sail overseas almost tomorrow, respectively, the machete is needed today.

Here, under the arm of army supplies, the Dutch klevangs decommissioned by sailors turned up. Yes, this was a forced, temporary measure, and American soldiers did not go en masse into the jungle with boarding sabers, but still, the first units of the 23rd Infantry Division of the US Army, sent to the Pacific theater of operations, received Dutch klevangs instead of machetes, rejected by the US Navy .


Private Taylor of the 182nd Regiment, 23rd Infantry Division dozes while waiting to be loaded onto a transport, November 1942. Dutch klevangs are visible on his backpack and next to him.

Later, during the liberation of the territories occupied by the Japanese, the Americans again encountered the Dutch klevangs. True, this time they were former klevangs of the Royal Dutch East Indies Army, which the Japanese got in 1941-1942 as trophies. The Japanese used these sabers both in their original form and in the “modernized” one, with the protection for the hand removed (“basket”, and in this case “half-basket”).


Photo from Life magazine February 1943, in which American infantrymen display trophies captured during the battles for the village of Buna in January 1943. One soldier holds a Dutch klevang freed from Japanese captivity.

The Dutch klevangs themselves quickly disappeared from the American infantry units. But the soldier's rumor about them remained. But since no one dedicated the infantrymen to the ups and downs of searching for an ersatz machete by army supplies, the soldiers themselves figured out the story of the appearance of their sabers.

As a result, the story circulated in the US Army for a long time that the first army units that went to fight in the Pacific Islands were equipped with shortened former cavalry sabers. Such an unexpected addition to the intricate story of the Dutch-American cutlass klewang, which ended up in the infantry.
66 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +6
    17 May 2023 04: 31
    Interesting story, thanks!
    At a minimum, we must remember that cavalry was massively used in World War II, and bladed weapons have not yet lost their functionality.
    However, the military "society" is a "meeting" of conservatives in the good sense of the word. Tradition is the backbone of the army. You will not check, but one of my acquaintances in the 00s “received” underpants (cavalry) with stripes for a bottle of vodka in a warehouse and even went to drill parades in them!
    Good morning comrades and have a nice day!
    1. +10
      17 May 2023 04: 50
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      in the warehouse "received" underpants (cavalry) sample with stripes

      Just pants? Maybe some riding breeches?
      1. +5
        17 May 2023 20: 46
        Of course, riding breeches! Described!!!
        The fact that I'm not smart, I know this even without the administration! laughing
        1. +1
          18 May 2023 03: 18
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Of course, riding breeches! Described!!!

          T9 is tricky! And in combination with an insidious solution, insidious in a cube! (joke!)
    2. +4
      17 May 2023 08: 17
      You won’t check, but one of my acquaintances in the warehouse “received” underpants (cavalry) with stripes and even went to drill parades in them!

      Why don't we believe? Easily. My dad in the 50s also had pants with "ears" for boots, and also with stripes, and also went to drill parades in them! He was then a cadet of the Tver Suvorov Military School.

      1. ANB
        +1
        18 May 2023 10: 15
        . He was then a cadet of the Tver Suvorov Military School.

        He was a Suvorov student of the Kalinin Suvorov School.
      2. 0
        18 May 2023 19: 57
        Quote: Richard

        . My dad in the 50s also had pants with "ears" for boots, and also with stripes, and also went to drill parades in them! He was then a cadet of the Tver Suvorov Military School.
        My father said that in 1970, when he served in the army, they were given trousers-breeches - then they had to cut and sew up the "ears" to half.
        In the next issuance of uniforms, we were given a "new sample" uniform with our usual trousers.
        soldier
    3. +4
      17 May 2023 08: 24
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      in the 00s, for a bottle of vodka in a warehouse, I "received" underpants (cavalry) of the sample with stripes and even went to drill parades in them!

      Underpants? Well, it seems to be still considered .... underwear? laughing Now I believe in nightgowns from the 45th! bully
      1. Fat
        +6
        17 May 2023 14: 30
        hi Hello, Sergey. Dimitri can persist as long as he pleases. But striped pants with stripes are not underpants, but (you won't believe it) - leggings!
        Leggings (German Reithose "pants for riding")
        1. +5
          17 May 2023 15: 17
          Greetings Borisych!
          Until the 69th, the police wore breeches under boots. Blue in color. With red narrow inserts on the sides.
          1. Fat
            +6
            17 May 2023 15: 34
            hi Greetings, Sergey! we called this riding breeches ... When I came from an emergency with my father in the pantry, I found a set of army PSh from the end of 1950 - my cousin brought it to him, they are great for my father, but just for me ...
            In winter, under boots - the song is simple! So my friend and I went to the winter session, I was in the army, he was in the police. Girls were pissed with boiling water... It's nice to remember...
            And then, jeans - "pyramids", God forgive me. The main thing with which muzzle of the face is to wear it! laughing
            1. +6
              17 May 2023 16: 05
              Quote: Thick
              we called this riding breeches ...

              Just a game of terms, nothing more. The main thing is to call the subject of the form underpants ... lol Not quite right. request I wildly apologize to the respected Vlad, but? lol These were not * pants with stripes of a cavalry type *.
              1. Fat
                +3
                17 May 2023 17: 12
                We will assume that this is a "jump" of Vlad's tablet and a morning oversight in a hurry, his device and software, apparently, can give out such miracles smile What is the first time as if "surprised"?
                1. +2
                  17 May 2023 18: 21
                  Quote: Thick
                  We will assume that this is a "jump" of Vlad's tablet and a morning oversight in a hurry, his device and software, apparently, can give out such miracles

                  Probably, Borisych, in the complex. By the way, I now remembered that at one time in the unit among the demobilized it was a special chic to flaunt after the order and before the demobilization in the form of the sample of the 43rd year. I don’t know how she remained in the warehouses, but it was. Command “I looked at this process through my fingers, like, what the child didn’t amuse, if only he didn’t swear. bully
                  1. Fat
                    +2
                    17 May 2023 19: 17
                    I can't support you Just for fun! Before boarding the plane, my friend and I brought ALL FORM and regulations into full compliance with the drill charter.
                    Patrols were detained at the exit from the airfield
                    This was my last experiment.
                  2. Fat
                    +1
                    17 May 2023 21: 20
                    Oh, I forgot the moments. HB of the old, post-war model, in warehouses in 1985-87 - I saw it, but not PSh ... Duc and what to say when the guys in 1985 were given "pike in a tomato" on a distant guard! 1964... a year older than me... Oh...
          2. +4
            17 May 2023 17: 35
            Sergey, welcome. I remember those riding breeches. By the way, I prefer the Cop uniform to "Zaitsevskaya" .. Something solid
            1. +2
              17 May 2023 18: 31
              Quote: vladcub
              to "Zaitsevskaya" .. Something solid

              Hello, Glory!
              Gray? In my opinion, they did not guess a little with the color. hi
              1. Fat
                +1
                17 May 2023 23: 38
                I saw gray riding breeches and even repaired it - sewn it in for a girlfriend, but I don’t know anything about the gray uniform of policemen ... Write in a personal please, if there is information. Thanks for reminding me... what
          3. +3
            18 May 2023 00: 43
            wore trousers-breeches under boots. Blue color. With red narrow inserts on the sides.
            ... What you called "red narrow inserts" is called RED PIPE.
            1. Fat
              0
              18 May 2023 10: 06
              hi
              Quote: militarist63
              is called RED EDGE.

              It is called galloon and it doesn’t matter how it is mounted
              1. +1
                23 May 2023 10: 45
                Galloon - a narrow ribbon, or braid ... these are only sewn on general pants. Here for sure - edging! smile
                1. 0
                  25 May 2023 01: 14
                  Galloon - a narrow ribbon, or braid ... these are only sewn on generals' trousers.
                  The fact that galloon - tape or braid is yes. But stripes, not galloons, are sewn on the pants of the generals ... Galloons are sewn on the cuffs of the sleeves of generals' uniforms ...., and even on the sleeves of the jackets of admirals and officers of the Navy, as insignia
              2. 0
                25 May 2023 00: 46
                It is called galloon and it doesn’t matter how it is mounted
                Dear, do not carry nonsense! fool Galun is completely different!!!
                I don’t know what kind of specialist you are ... but for 2 decades I have worn out more than one set of Soviet everyday, field and full dress uniforms of officers, with trousers in boots and loose fitting (with red piping, and then with blue) ... Therefore , you know, you shouldn’t tell me stories ...., I, after all, am better aware than yours of how the elements of that form should be called! wink
        2. +2
          17 May 2023 16: 56
          Why build on me in vain and ascribe to me what I did not say?
          Dimitri can persist as long as he pleases

          Give an example where I object to someone in the comments, or I persist in something
          But striped pants with thongs are not underpants.

          Give an example where I state the opposite.
          Not pretty. You need to be careful choosing expressions and sweeping accusations,
          Good luck hi
          1. Fat
            +3
            17 May 2023 17: 31
            hi I sincerely apologize.
            I did not expect this, Dmitry ...
            You need to be careful choosing expressions and sweeping accusations,
            Grievances. It did not mean something bad and indecent - insulting.
            Sincerely. With hope for mutual understanding and further cooperation.
            Sincerely yours, Tolstoy Borisych recourse
            How about a peace pipe? Well ... or cups ... drinks
    4. +4
      17 May 2023 17: 25
      Namesake, good health. I'm confused about the pants. Something fake. I talked a lot with WWII veterans, my grandfathers fought, calm mother and aunt, participants in the Second World War, were nurses in the medical battalion, but no one talked about such underpants
      1. Fat
        +3
        17 May 2023 20: 02
        My Father, was miraculously taken out wounded on November 17, 1942 to our shore. A funeral came to my relatives ... I believe him, I believe his selection, I don’t believe his shorthand interrogations of "heroes" after ...
    5. Alf
      +2
      17 May 2023 19: 21
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      At a minimum, we must remember that cavalry was massively used in World War II,

      Of course, I don’t know much, but I remember that in WW2 cavalry was rarely used as cavalry, mainly as mounted infantry. In our country, it seems, the cavalry was not particularly used after the death of Dovator.
      1. +2
        17 May 2023 20: 59
        Quote: Alf
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        At a minimum, we must remember that cavalry was massively used in World War II,

        Of course, I don’t know much, but I remember that in WW2 cavalry was rarely used as cavalry, mainly as mounted infantry. In our country, it seems, the cavalry was not particularly used after the death of Dovator.

        In the equestrian formation, they went on the attack sporadically until the 43rd.
        As mobile infantry, cavalry units participated in almost all offensive operations in 44 and 45, along with tank armies.
  2. +7
    17 May 2023 06: 26
    "In the Acehnese war, the klewang, the weapon of the Malay natives, established itself as an effective melee weapon against enemy infantry. And instead of rifles with bayonets, the Dutch rearmed their East Indian troops with a carbine paired with a boarding saber, the shape of which repeated the outlines of the klewang. So the colonialists succeeded more successfully to resist the natives, because before the adoption of the new weapon, the Dutch suffered heavy losses.Later, this boarding saber was called the Dutch klewang.

    The first example of a klewang-type saber was used in 1898 by the Royal Netherlands Army during the suppression of the rebel movement in Sumatra in 1873-1904. Then the klewang was adopted in other parts of the Dutch colonial empire and became authorized weapons in the Dutch police and navy (models 1911 and 1913), was used in World War II in battles with the Japanese and in the suppression of the revolutionary movement in Indonesia in 1947-48.

    Its production was discontinued by 1949. More than 50 thousand units of such weapons were made, which were used until 1948. In the van Heutsz infantry regiment in the Royal Dutch National Police, the klewang is still traditionally in service with soldiers.
    https://warriors.fandom.com/ru/wiki/Голландский_клеванг
    1. +8
      17 May 2023 07: 36
      Quote: hohol95
      used in World War II in battles with the Japanese

      It came across somewhere that already in the Battle of Gettysburg, tens of thousands of dead and wounded, only six people were injured by sabers.
      So the question of "application" is mysterious, probably they also chopped weeds and posed for a photo.
    2. +7
      17 May 2023 08: 56
      Later, during the liberation of the territories occupied by the Japanese, the Americans again encountered the Dutch klevangs. True, this time they were former klevangs of the Royal Dutch East Indies Army, which the Japanese got in 1941-1942 as trophies. The Japanese used these sabers both in their original form and in the “modernized” one, with the protection for the hand removed (“basket”, and in this case “half-basket”).


      This, as I understand it, is what is called "Heiho-klewang", a Dutch shortened cutlass by the Japanese.
      1. +7
        17 May 2023 09: 39
        This, as I understand it, is what is called "Heiho-klewang", a Dutch shortened cutlass by the Japanese.

        Yes, this is the Dutch cutsaber Klewang 1911 "creatively redesigned" by the Japanese. And Heiho - because it was intended to arm formations recruited from the local population. Heiho - "auxiliary forces".
  3. +6
    17 May 2023 06: 50
    This is where the American manufacturer Milsco Manufacturing pops up, which has been making cutting sabers for almost two years now. True, not cutlasses, but Dutch klevangs, and not for the US armed forces, but for the Royal Dutch East Indies Army.

    In the East Indies and among the Dutch, the klewang is now the ceremonial equivalent of a dagger. Although it is strange that they did not begin to produce ordinary household machetes, because klevangs were intended to be used in the jungle. Perhaps because the Japanese still had military swords of industrial production from WWII in wide use.
    1. +5
      17 May 2023 07: 23
      https://dzen.ru/a/ZGQric3p4i5dkYf7
      "Japanese saber type 32 (model 1899)."
  4. +6
    17 May 2023 06: 59
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    "Received" underpants (cavalry) sample with stripes and even went to drill parades in them!
    In underpants, and even with stripes and for a drill review. After that, he was not sent to the hospital for examination of his mental state?
    About the article. Interesting, for which thanks to the author.
  5. +10
    17 May 2023 08: 34

    Well, summing up all of the above..
    1. +11
      17 May 2023 10: 24
      Quote: Tlauicol
      Well, summing up all of the above..

      This is your third problem. You always come with knives to a gunfight. © smile

      If Harrison Ford didn't get sick before the shoot, it would be a "whip against sword" fight.
  6. +5
    17 May 2023 08: 44
    smile Interesting case, thank you, well stated.
  7. -1
    17 May 2023 08: 51
    Few informative illustrations. On other resources, this topic is disclosed much better.
  8. +5
    17 May 2023 09: 06
    The American Navy, like, in fact, probably, any fleet in the 1860th century, was armed with a cutlass cutlass. In XNUMX, the rough cutlass was replaced by a more elegant cutlass of the classic "French" design, and with this weapon the US Navy entered the XNUMXth century with confidence.




    Cutlass saber model 1841. M1841. The design was really unsuccessful and did not enjoy the love of the sailors, so it was replaced with the cutter M1860.



    And a bit of terminology. Cutlass - translated into Russian from English - cutlass.
    That is, using the term katlass in a text written in Russian is the same as writing a sword instead of the word sword.
    1. +7
      17 May 2023 10: 53
      Concerning the term "klewang". The real klewang, the weapon of the natives of Indonesia and Malaysia, looks like this.



      The saber of the Royal Netherlands Army in the East Indies was officially called sabre marechaussee. And klewang is the name of a specific sample of such a saber - Klewang Model 1898, like the North American P-51 Mustang fighter. Subsequently, the term became a household name for all subsequent models.
  9. +7
    17 May 2023 09: 27
    Here, under the arm of army supplies, the Dutch klevangs decommissioned by sailors turned up.

    Between the American cutting saber M1917 and the Dutch cutting saber Klewang M1911, which "turned up to the suppliers", there are at least differences, since the first was created on the basis of the second.




    The top photo shows an American cutting saber M1917, the bottom photo shows a Dutch M1911.
  10. +4
    17 May 2023 11: 28
    In the context of the article, two stories came to mind.
    The first is about Chinese dadao and the battle at the Peak of Happiness.

    In the jungles of the Solomon Islands, such a unit would be useful ...
    The second is a slave uprising in Haiti. Slaves with machetes massacring white colonizers on an industrial scale.
    Even in the era of the dominance of firearms on the battlefields, there was sometimes a place for primitive pieces of iron.
    1. +3
      17 May 2023 14: 36
      The first is about Chinese dadao

      This is the case when they say - there would be no happiness, but misfortune helped. The Chinese simply had nothing to equip the soldiers with, so the assault squads were armed with the S-96 Mauser, grenades and the dadao sword. The effectiveness of this sword against the Japanese is greatly exaggerated by all sorts of YouTube sofa experts, and it was not used anywhere at all against a katana during World War II.
      1. +2
        17 May 2023 17: 48
        Quote from Frettaskyrandi
        The effectiveness of this sword against the Japanese is greatly exaggerated by all sorts of YouTube sofa experts

        I have not met helluva lot of rave reviews about dadao. You are right, this weapon is from poverty.
        Quote from Frettaskyrandi
        against katana during World War II, it was not used anywhere at all.

        It must have been applied. These two types of edged weapons existed at the same time within a fairly compact space, so the chance that they never met is negligible. It is clear that the katana was not (or was not smile ) the main weapon, but in hand-to-hand combat, it could still be used, and therefore resist dadao.
        Surely there is evidence of how this happened, you just need to look for them in Chinese sources.
        1. +3
          17 May 2023 18: 50
          Surely used

          To do this, it was necessary that some Japanese officer in high ranks from an old samurai family decided to take the family sword with him to China and there meet with a Chinese from the Tao-Dui detachment, whom Ma Fengtu, known in China, taught the Piguaquan system. This system was used to train storm troopers armed with dadao. Moreover, the emphasis was on fighting against an enemy armed with a rifle with a bayonet. In theory, this, of course, could happen, maybe it even happened somewhere, since the family swords were really present at the war. The Americans even later returned to the Japanese swords captured as trophies. But it is unlikely that there were many such cases.
          And all those swords that all Japanese officers were required to wear after 1870 and with which the Chinese could cross with dadao - this is not a katana, this is a gunto. Depending on the time of manufacture, they were called kyu - gunto (old sword), shin-gunto (new sword), type 94, type 95 (for non-commissioned officers), type 98. The sword of naval officers was called kaigunto (sea sword).
          Unknowingly, these swords are often mistaken for katana, although the difference is visible to the naked eye.



          Officer's sword - Kyū guntō.
          1. Fat
            +2
            17 May 2023 19: 05
            hi Thank you, Everyone understood everything ... Now it’s the same slower ... VikNik, It’s even impossible to swell so that the “ribs” are on ... Nevertheless, Thank you. We honor history as a scientific discipline
          2. +4
            17 May 2023 20: 37
            Yes, by the word "katana" I meant exactly the officer's swords, which were manufactured on an industrial scale.
            However, I think that even a real katana, executed by a recognized master according to all the canons of blacksmithing, in a collision with a two-kilogram piece of iron, a centimeter thick, would hardly have been able to prove worthy. smile
            A master of kenjutsu would probably easily take down a Chinese stormtrooper with a dadao in a duel, but mass hand-to-hand combat in the trenches is somewhat different.
            1. Fat
              +2
              17 May 2023 20: 57
              Michael, discard ken-jutshu and separate from ken-do... Katana is literally a long Japanese knife.... ken-do also means a double-edged sword... here you can’t dig about the connection between Chinese manners and Japanese ones...
              1. +4
                17 May 2023 21: 08
                Katana is a long Japanese knife literally...

                Literally - Kata - one-sided, on - blade. Sword with one-sided sharpening. Double-edged sword - tsurugi.
                1. Fat
                  +2
                  17 May 2023 21: 50
                  Yes, It looks like it's a pity I don't know much about Japanese...
                  So, "Japanese policeman", avatar, our unforgettable ... You know better smile
                2. Fat
                  +2
                  17 May 2023 23: 53
                  That's right, even there is no point in objecting. Ken is generalizing, and no matter how and when, where and when the tradition of wearing swords (knives) behind the belt was established ...
                  Many years of almost complete isolation
            2. +2
              17 May 2023 21: 25
              a two-kilogram piece of iron, a centimeter thick

              The largest dadao weighed 1,5 kg with a maximum blade thickness of 5 mm. Usually less.
          3. Fat
            +1
            17 May 2023 23: 25
            hi Here, oh! I wanted to object, but that's right, do not find fault ...
            Frettaskyrandi, now tell me that you don't smoke, and that now hide all the baseball... and the duralumin paddle - the current bendswassat
            Thank you!
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Fat
      +3
      17 May 2023 15: 14
      Greetings, Michael. Thank you for the video. I still have hope that there will be someone advanced who will be able to write a worthy article about the methods of combat with the bladed "tool" of the East ...
      It is possible that this publication will be the "first sign" what
      PS. Now we will have to track and watch this "Berest". Explanatory smile
      1. +3
        17 May 2023 17: 35
        Greetings, Andrey Borisovich.
        Good channel. I have never caught the author on errors or distortions. He does not plunge into some complex matters, but he presents simple and not obvious things to everyone at a quite decent level.
  11. +2
    17 May 2023 17: 49
    Comrades, in my opinion, "boarding" sabers could be written off with the advent of a submachine gun.
    By the way, who is in the "topic" in the RIF, when were the cutoff sabers written off? At least they didn't exist in WWII.
    1. Fat
      +3
      17 May 2023 18: 20
      hi
      Quote: vladcub
      in my opinion, "boarding" sabers could be written off with the advent of a submachine gun.

      Sorry Slav. Saber, as it were .... no need to reload request
    2. +4
      17 May 2023 19: 55
      The RIF and the fleets of the USSR simply did not have enough water area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXboperations to systematically encounter the real practice of boarding and naval saber combat, which is why they wrote off cleavers and daggers early. Well, except for the Far East - it was not unusual for a Soviet ship to get on board someone else's boarding team, although it was much better than ... a torpedo from an ally.
      So in WWII they boarded with might and main, and even submariners went on boarding. Therefore, there were sabers on the ships of many countries.
      https://topwar.ru/171871-taran-i-abordazh-v-vodah-vtoroj-mirovoj-vojny.html
      https://life.ru/p/1506084
      1. Fat
        0
        17 May 2023 23: 01
        Not this way.
        The history of Russian marines, including, is not limited to specialists sent to the enemy shore .... What "these wild people" used to tell either no one, or "you still won't believe"
    3. +3
      17 May 2023 19: 58
      in the RIF, boarding sabers, when were they written off?

      As a weapon - at the end of the XIX century. As an element of form - written off in 1917.
      1. Fat
        +2
        17 May 2023 21: 02
        Well, yes ... The ritually reduced dagger only remained, although you can skillfully beat the enemy with such a thing ...
  12. 0
    18 May 2023 10: 15
    Thank you for the article. Unknown but interesting topic. laughing
  13. 0
    26 May 2023 20: 11
    Quote: ArchiPhil
    Until the 69th, the police wore breeches under boots. Blue.

    And after the 69th they successfully wore gray riding breeches with piping. I have personally worn...