American cluster munitions for Ukraine: the debate continues

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American cluster munitions for Ukraine: the debate continues
Mk 20 bombs from the US Navy arsenal. Photo by the US Department of Defense


The Kiev regime regularly turns to its American patrons with requests for the provision of this or that weapon. Not so long ago, several types of cluster munitions for different systems entered the wish list. Official Washington has not yet allowed their delivery, but has not banned it either. Due to the lack of a clear and precise position in the United States, disputes began at various levels, incl. with the involvement of the media.



Desires and reality


Cluster munitions appeared in the requests of the Kyiv regime only a few months ago. As reported by the foreign press, last winter Ukraine demanded to provide it with 155-mm artillery DPICM type projectiles. They were intended to increase the effectiveness of artillery. In addition, news about the arrival of a batch of such shells from Turkey, but they have not received confirmation.

In early March, it became known that the Kiev regime wanted to receive American cassette aviation Mk 20 / CBU-100 Rockeye bombs. They are proposed to be disassembled and the Mk 118 submunitions removed. The use of bombs in its original form is excluded due to excessive risks for carrier aircraft.

The supply of cluster shells and bombs requires permission from the presidential administration. However, by mid-March it became known that the White House was not going to approve the allocation of such assistance in connection with the well-known military and political risks. This position of the country's leadership caused a corresponding reaction.


Projectile series DPICM - Ukraine wants to get such ammunition. Globalsecurity.org graphics

On March 21, a group of Congressmen from the Republican Party sent an official letter to the Joe Biden administration calling for the allocation of cluster munitions to Ukraine. The authors of the letter criticized the president for his unwillingness to help a key partner in the fight against Russia. As it became known later, the White House got acquainted with the letter - and did not comply with the recommendations contained in it.

The lack of a positive decision predictably became an incentive for further disputes and loud statements. Legislators-supporters of the Kyiv regime continue to talk about the need to allocate the requested assistance. Representatives of Kyiv, in turn, urge American congressmen to put pressure on their own president. In addition, public organizations and the media have recently become involved in the controversy.

Strong protest


On April 13, Defense One published an article titled "Biden Must Resist Calls to Send Cluster Munitions to Ukraine". As the title suggests, its author, Nuria Raul of the Friends Committee on National Legislation, opposes supporting the Kyiv regime with the supply of certain types of weapons.

The article begins with a reminder of the risks and threats associated with the use of cluster munitions. Unmanaged weapon this kind scatters individual elements over a large area. It refers to systems of indiscriminate action, and therefore poses a danger to the civilian population, incl. for children. Therefore, J. Biden should reject proposals for the supply of cluster munitions to Ukraine.

As evidence, N. Raul cites some data on the use of cluster munitions on the territory of Ukraine and on the results of such attacks. At the same time, in accordance with the current agenda, the blame is placed on the Russian army and "pro-Russian separatists." Ukrainian actions and crimes in this context are actually hushed up.


Illustration from an article in Defense One. A shot for an automatic grenade launcher was called a cluster munition submunition

In addition to humanistic considerations, a political argument is given. For example, the shipment of cluster munitions and bombs will negatively affect the reputation of the United States and prevent it from promoting new arms control agreements. At the same time, they remind that the United States is one of the few NATO members that still has cluster weapons.

Current legislation allows the US military to have and store cluster munitions. However, the corresponding decision of the Congress prohibits the export of such products, in which more than 1% of the combat elements do not work. The actual failure rate of existing ammunition is at the level of 2-6 percent. Some organizations estimate this parameter at the level of 10-40 percent. Due to the lack of reliability, the supply of cluster weapons outside the United States is actually excluded at the legislative level.

In the current situation, N. Raul proposes to abandon the supply of cluster munitions to Ukraine, as well as to increase activity in the fight against such weapons. The US must join the existing Ban Convention and take the lead in phasing out cluster munitions.

Other opinion


On May 4, Popular Mechanics published an article in response to the publication in Defense One. Its author, the notorious defense expert Kyle Mizokami, does not agree with N. Raul's proposals and considers it necessary to help the Kyiv regime with the desired ammunition.

Article "Most of the World Has Shunned Deadly Cluster Munitions. Should the US Send Them to Ukraine, Anyway?” (“Most of the world has abandoned lethal cluster munitions. Still, should the US send them to Ukraine?”) begins with a general description of cluster munitions, their brief stories and listing advantages and disadvantages. Then K. Mizokami considers the arguments of the opponent in absentia.


One of the variants of the submunition from the DPICM family. Globalsecurity.org graphics

Following the general agenda, the author of Popular Mechanics writes about some constant and numerous crimes of the Russian army that Defense One did not bother to mention. Among them, he recalls the use of cluster munitions.

K. Mizokami believes that Ukraine has the right to any effective weapon that will help it cope with the enemy. He acknowledges the risks to the Ukrainian population, but believes that the Russian army poses a much greater danger. At the same time, it is alleged that Ukraine, being a “defending party”, has the opportunity to use its weapons more responsibly, mark the areas of their use and then neutralize the remaining products.

The article in Popular Mechanics concludes that Ukrainian formations are eligible for cluster weapons. In addition, its author accuses N. Raul of the lack of alternative proposals in the context of helping an ally.

Already in stock


It should be noted that Ukraine already has various types of cluster munitions. With the collapse of the USSR, she got large stocks of such weapons of various types, and some of the products came in the recent past as foreign aid. All these samples are regularly used, and often with their help they attack settlements and civilian objects.

You also need to consider the legal context. Ukraine has not yet acceded to the Convention on Cluster Munitions and has the formal right to keep and use them. However, the use of such indiscriminate weapons in populated areas violates the Geneva Conventions and is a war crime.


Ukrainian PFM-1 mine delivered by cluster munition, July 2022. Photo by Telegram / "Poddubny"

Last year, Ukrainian OTRK Tochka-U were used repeatedly missiles 9N123K with cluster warheads. They carry 50 warheads weighing 1,5 kg each. One of these munitions was used to organize a provocation in Kramatorsk – the Kiev regime attacked its own citizens.

Since Soviet times, a large number of rockets for multiple launch rocket systems with cluster warheads have been present in Ukrainian warehouses. Thus, missiles for Grad or Hurricane can carry fragmentation, cumulative or incendiary submunitions. In addition, 220-mm shells for the "Hurricane" were equipped with cassettes with PFM-1 anti-personnel mines. Such products have been repeatedly used for remote mining in the territories of Donbas settlements.

Last year, Ukraine received the German MLRS MARS 2, a European version of the American M270. Together with them were delivered rockets carrying AT2 / DM1399 anti-tank mines. It is curious that the manufacturer and the main operator do not consider such weapons to be cluster weapons.

Ukraine also had a stockpile of cluster artillery shells. In the 152 mm caliber, there were ammunition with 8 fragmentation or cumulative fragmentation elements. Cluster shells in 203 mm caliber are capable of carrying 24 larger fragmentation submunitions. Last year, France delivered a batch of 155mm BONUS projectiles, each carrying two self-aiming anti-tank elements.


Anti-tank mine AT2 from the cassette for the MARS 2 projectile. Photo Telegram / War Gonzo

Now the Kiev regime wants to get additional 155-mm cluster warheads and aerial bombs. At the same time, the latter are not planned to be used for their intended purpose. They want to dismantle them for parts and get a large number of smaller ammunition for unmanned aircraft. Also, it cannot be ruled out that in the future the desires of Kyiv will grow again, and the list of required products will be replenished.

Position difference


Thus, the current Ukrainian authorities continue to ask and demand new weapons and equipment from foreign partners and patrons, and now they have come to cluster munitions. However, this time the United States is in no hurry to comply with such requests and provide the requested products. The absence of the desired reaction from the White House led to the beginning of disputes - first among politicians, and then in the media.

The reasons for this situation are quite clear. As a result of Russian demilitarization measures, the Kiev regime found itself in a critical situation. Its future directly depends on foreign aid, and therefore it is ready for any measures and no longer constrains itself in demands. The partners were presented with a long list of desired samples and systems, which is also constantly replenished.

In turn, the US is solving its own problems. They intend to continue to weaken Russia at the expense of Ukraine and are ready to provide various means for this. However, such support cannot be unlimited. The White House has to take into account various factors of a political, economic and other nature, as well as take care of its own security.

It is obvious that at the moment the US leadership does not consider it necessary to provide Kyiv with cluster munitions. There is another opinion, and lobbyists have to be involved to promote it. Whether the White House will heed such ideas remains to be seen.
7 comments
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  1. +1
    5 May 2023 08: 30
    The reality is that most likely they will. This is what must come from.
    1. 0
      5 May 2023 09: 22
      Not even likely, but definitely. Each type of transferred weapons went through such stages.
      1. 0
        27 June 2023 13: 47
        T-100 (Sergey). May 5, 2023 09:22. NEW - "...Yes, not even most likely, but definitely. Each type of transferred weapons went through such stages ..."

        Not about how the head HURTS.
        The Ukrainian Armed Forces, with the support of their “partners,” have already used chemical weapons and white phosphorus.

        Sources:
        1 - 01 MARCH 2022 03:05
        "UNITS SURVIVE": EXPERT EXPLAINED WHY UKRAINE WILL BE FORGIVED PHOSPHORUS AMMUNITION
        https://tsargrad.tv/news/vyzhivajut-edinicy-jekspert-objasnil-pochemu-ukraine-prostjat-fosfornye-boepripasy_503688
        On February 27, the Russian Ministry of Defense announced on the facts of the use of phosphorus munitions by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The Armed Forces of Ukraine use shells filled with hazardous substances in D-30 howitzers and BM-21 Grad rocket launchers, produced back in Soviet times. They strike in the area of ​​​​the Gostomel airfield, which is under the control of the Russian army ...Such actions are prohibited by international documents, in particular the protocol of the 1980 UN Convention on Inhumane Weapons. bully The Russian Defense Ministry believes that the Ukrainian army is desperate, and therefore went to such a serious violation.

        2 - 27.06.2023. 08:05
        https://tsargrad.tv/news/vsu-pustili-v-hod-zapreshhjonnye-boepripasy-russkih-travjat-himoruzhiem_813335
        AFU UNLEASHED PROHIBITED AMMUNITION: RUSSIANS HAVE CHEMICAL WEAPONS
        The Ukrainian Armed Forces used prohibited ammunition in the Donetsk direction. This was announced by a military expert, Lieutenant Colonel NM LPR, retired Andrey Marochko...The Armed Forces of Ukraine decided to poison Russian fighters with banned chemical weapons. Chemical munitions hit near Soledar.
        On detonation acrid smoke is released, which causes burning of the skin, and when inhaled, people lose consciousness. At the moment, our RKhBZ protection specialists are establishing the type of poisonous substance,

        IT'S TIME TO RESPOND ADEQUATELY!
        1 - Minimum carpet or tremobaric (i.e. legally and WITHOUT VIOLATIONS crying ) by places of concentration as "themselves dirty tricks and violators of agreements in the WORLD" - have long been OBVIOUS terrorists and Nazis and their consultants "concerned about NATO security" (so far on the territory of O.kraina. am

        [And then I frankly steal RUSSIAN HOLY RUSSIAN shrinest+ then, in order to provoke a dirty bomb from radioactive materials stolen in the Russian Federation, with the help of migrants, they want to blind. To declare war on the Russian Federation.
        Source -
        27.06.2023.04:00
        HTTPS://TSARGRAD.TV/ARTICLES/NACHINKU-DLJA-JADERNOJ-BOMBY-UKRAINE-GOTOVILI-MIGRANTY-NATO-PUGAET-VZRYVOM_813013?UTM_REFERRER=HTTPS%3A%2F%2FYANDEX.RU%2F
        WERE MIGRANTS PREPARING THE PLANT FOR THE NUCLEAR BOMB IN UKRAINE? NATO SCARES BY EXPLOSION
        …..The other day, the FSB informed the public about the detention of a gang of migrants (five ethnic Azerbaijanis), who, under the leadership of a customer from Ukraine, tried to buy and export from Russia a kilogram of the cesium-137 isotope worth $3,5 million. The FSB is sure that this was done to the detriment of Russian interests in the course of the SVO and to conduct an information and propaganda campaign to discredit the country in the international arena ...
  2. +2
    5 May 2023 09: 59
    IMHO, the APU already had a small amount of cluster munitions.
    At Lostarmore, they analyzed the video from the APU, they came to the conclusion that 120 mm cluster mines were used. A very effective thing, even against dug-in infantry.
  3. 0
    5 May 2023 13: 11
    author Nuria Raul of the Friends Committee on National Legislation opposes supporting the Kyiv regime with the supply of certain types of weapons.
    The article begins with a reminder of the risks and threats associated with the use of cluster munitions. Unguided weapons of this kind scatter individual elements over a large area. It refers to systems of indiscriminate action, and therefore poses a danger to the civilian population.

    It's just that this Raul (or this Nuria. I don't know which is the first name and which is the last name) doesn't read VO. If he did, he would know that...
    In early March, it became known that the Kiev regime wanted to receive American Mk 20 / CBU-100 Rockeye cluster bombs. They are proposed to be disassembled and the Mk 118 submunitions removed.
    1. 0
      6 May 2023 00: 24
      Quote from solar
      They are proposed to be disassembled and the Mk 118 submunitions removed.

      And only aircraft-type drones of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were purchased in China through layers from 10 to several tens of thousands. And this is only an aircraft type with a range of hundreds to thousands of kilometers. and a payload of up to several tens of kilograms. And there are also quad / multicopters capable of using such submunitions.
      So they will definitely put it, if they haven’t already, and in sufficient quantities. So the role of electronic warfare and its ability to cover large areas increases dramatically. As well as interceptors for such low-speed and low-altitude targets (aircraft type). These can be both helicopters (light - with arrows on board, combat - Mi-35 \ 28 \ Ka-52), and light propeller-driven aircraft, and light training jet aircraft (L-39, L-29 Yak-130). But the biggest problem will be solving the issue of their detection, due to their low-altitude flight profile and very low RCS. And it is also necessary to urgently reopen the ZPU, moreover, of all types, including double and quad "Maxims" (they have a rifle cartridge), place them at all likely targets of attack, and calculations ... calculations can be prepared from local self-defense personnel, which is also necessary to form, and entrust it to, say, the National Guard (but in indispensable interaction with the Moscow Region and local commands of the air defense forces.
      The threat is serious and it is unacceptable to neglect the precautionary measures. All this should have been done yesterday.
      But today it's still not too late.
  4. 0
    6 May 2023 15: 07
    There is a video on YouTube that supposedly already shows the use of the M483A1 cluster munition by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.