Military Review

Iran and the United States: who frightens whom and why

14


I. New package of sanctions

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak 29 November spoke with the head of the Pentagon, Leon Panetta, and then spoke at a press conference in Washington. He is there saidthat Iran is not going to give up its nuclear ambitions. This country may come close to creating a nuclear weapons in 2013 year. Barak believes that in the nuclear field, Iran is moving along the path that Pakistan and the DPRK have previously traveled.

However, Mr. Barak is sure: other countries (the name of which he didn’t specify) will be able to “in one way or another” force Iran to abandon its harmful intentions. The Israeli Defense Minister expressed hope that Iran’s refusal to follow the disastrous path would occur before the Islamic Republic reaches the “immunity zone”, which means the accumulation of enriched uranium or weapons-grade plutonium in an amount sufficient to create at least one nuclear warhead. Probably, Barak, having previously conferred with Netanyahu, decided to refuse the unsuccessful terminology of the latter (“red lines”).

Journalists asked Barak: when, they say, will Iran reach this very “zone”? Starting to answer, the Israeli Defense Minister got lost in the words:

"I think that this will happen during 2013 of the year, although I used to think that this would happen in 2012, but it did not happen, and it did not happen in 2011 either."


Here is such a terrible Iran. Nothing happens and has never happened before, but we will “force” and raise the topic of the “zone”.

Pentagon chief L. Panetta spoke in the tone of Barak:

"The US president declared that we would not allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons, and this remains our policy."


True, he added that "there is still time and opportunity to try to solve this problem by diplomatic means."

“I think that this would be the most preferable option for both the United States and Israel,” the US Secretary of Defense emphasized.


Meanwhile, Iran’s strangulation of sanctions continues.

On the eve of the adoption of the latest package of sanctions against Iran, the United States said it would raise consideration of the issue of the Iranian nuclear program at the UN Security Council - if Tehran does not begin to seriously cooperate with the IAEA before March 2013. Last week, American diplomat Robert Wood announced this at the agency’s quarterly meeting in Vienna. His words leads Rosbalt:

“If Iran does not start meaningful cooperation with the IAEA by March, the United States will insist that the Board of Governors (IAEA) report on the lack of progress in the UN Security Council. We must not allow Iran to ignore its obligations indefinitely. ”


The next round of talks between the IAEA and Iran is scheduled for December 13. He must pass in Tehran.

After Iran frightened UN complaints, the US Senate unanimously voted to impose additional sanctions on Iran. A bill that became part of the US defense budget, November 30 supported the 94 senator.

This does not mean that the document has become law. The project has yet to be approved by the House of Representatives. If the act becomes law, then American companies will be prohibited from having business relations with Iranian energy enterprises, seaports, and commercial fleet and shipyards. Earlier, Washington introduced several presidential decrees sanctions against the financial and oil sectors of the Iranian economy.

Now, analysts believe, we are talking about attempts to stop paying Turkey gold for Iranian gas and oil. New sanctions are likely to limit the export and import of precious metals in Iran. The basis of the sanctions, most likely, is the strengthening of the long-term embargo against Iran, which will continue and, if possible, toughen until the Iranian economy collapses. At the same time, the White House is counting on the influence of international EU sanctions on Iran.

As for the Turkish-Iranian deals, Turkey, as it turned out recently, has neglected the common interests of the United States and Israel. Why not neglect? Ankara’s tense relations with Tel Aviv are tense, and Washington, as well as Brussels, doesn’t really help Ankara in the fight against Assad. In addition, Turkey needs energy.

Ii. Iranian energy and Turkish gold

In late November, Turkey had to admit that it pays for the supply of energy from Iran with gold. The fact of "barter" was recognized by the Deputy Prime Minister of Turkey Ali Babacan, giving an answer to the official request of the budget committee of the Turkish parliament. The fact is that the deputies are interested in the reasons for the sharp increase in gold exports from the country in 2012 year. That's what answered Mr. Babacan:

“In fact, the export of gold (to Iran) is a form of payment for our import of natural gas (from this country). Turkey places payments for gas supplies on Iran’s bank account in our country. Nevertheless, I do not have information on how the Iranians further transfer these payments to their country. ”


The scheme was designed like this. Payment goes through the National Bank "Halk Bankasi". Turkey pays for Iranian gas with its lira. Thus, the dollar (at first glance) is not infringed, since Iran immediately spends lira for the purchase of Turkish gold. In fact, there is an exchange of gold for energy, the lira only plays the role of a formal equivalent. According to official data, in the first nine months of this year, Turkey “sold” yellow metal to Iran in the amount of 6,4 billion dollars.

That is why parliamentarians became interested in the outflow of gold reserves from the country. Indeed, in the first nine months of 2011, sales amounted to only 54 million. And this year, Iran accounted for 60% of total gold exports from Turkey. And another 30% fell on the UAE.

The Turkish government is not going to stop the deal with Iran, which successfully compensates for the damage from US and European sanctions.

Energy imports from Iran continue. Iranian supplies account for 18% of Turkey’s total natural gas needs and 51% of oil.

Judging by the official Turkish foreign trade statistics, write Deutsche Welle analysts Thomas Seibert and Andrei Gurkov, part of the gold purchased enters Iran through the United Arab Emirates. Apparently, the ingots are shipped by couriers using regular flights: the law allows you to carry 50 kilograms of gold with you to 1 people.

This is the confirmation of this version: only in September, Turkish exports to the UAE increased by 2011% compared to the same period of the 452,3 year. 80% of supply is gold. Experts have no doubt that part of this gold from Dubai is then sent to Tehran.

And further. The export of Turkish gold reached such a scale that it allowed to reduce the foreign trade deficit of Turkey. According to analysts, according to the results of 2012, the deficit is likely to decrease by 20%. The ruling party in the country (AKP) has achieved its goal - to turn gold mining into one of the strategic sectors of the national economy. So Erdogan is gaining points.

Iranians are increasing trade with the Turks. Last year, the Iranians founded 590 firms in Turkey (an increase of 41% compared to the 2010 year). The total number of firms with Iranian owners in the Turkish territory has already reached 2.140. Iranians have managed in a short time to become the largest foreign investors in Turkey.

In talks with Iranian Vice President Ali Saydlu in November, Turkish Development Minister Cevdet Yılmaz said that bilateral trade volumes, expressed this year in the amount of about 20 billion, should be brought to 30 billion as soon as possible.

Thus, both Turkey and Iran are not only not going to look back on the United States, but plan to rapidly expand cooperation.

It turns out that the Iranian president, Comrade Ahmadinejad, did not brave when he declared that Iran would find a way out of a difficult situation. In addition, thanks to the actions of both Iran and Turkey, the United States is now threatened, which can be described as "the beginning of the end of the petrodollar." The scheme works, and will work on. The dollar in it was not needed. Why does the dollar, when there is something more reliable - gold, which can be "fastened" to any national currency? And Germany is already trading with China for yuan, and Finland, in the face of the Stockmann trading network, has begun accepting Russian rubles ... It is also possible that trading in its own currency and the BRICS countries is possible. By the way, both Russia and China are increasing their gold reserves for a reason.

Meanwhile, by sending gold to Iran, Turkey risks incurring the wrath of its strategic partner, the United States. True, with “barter” transactions that are not related to the SWIFT international settlement system, Turkey does not seem to violate any sanctions obligations.

However, above we talked about the new package of US sanctions, which must be coordinated in the House of Representatives. There they are unlikely to meet many opponents. These sanctions are likely to limit the export and import to Iran of precious metals, primarily gold.

But Ankara is hardly intimidated.

Turkish Economy Minister Zafer Chaglayan already reacted on information about the latest sanctions by the statement that such measures are mandatory for the Americans themselves. Say what you like, but Turkey needs oil and gas. And the cooperation that Turkey and Iran have lined up over the past few years, both sides are not going to cross out. The authority of Americans on the world stage is becoming lower and lower every week. And, no matter how sometimes we criticize Mr. Erdogan, now it does not seem that he would be led by Washington.

Iii. What does Brzezinski think

According to him, America cannot follow Israel like a silly mule. You can not "beat the drums of war", submitting to Israeli pressure in the formation of American national security policy, says strategist. Washington should not blindly follow Tel Aviv if Israel decides to attack Iran unilaterally.

Brzezinski does not advise President Obama to plan any military actions against Iran - if Israel does start a war. The political analyst expressed his opinion openly, at a conference held by the National American Council on Iran and the Arms Control Association.

Even if Israel attacks Iran - in accordance with its ideas about the “red lines”, then in this case Zbigniew Brzezinski does not reveal any “implicit obligations” for the United States, which for some reason have to watch, “like a stupid mule”, what the Israelites are doing there.

According to the political analyst, if the Israelis start a war, assuming simply that the United States will automatically be drawn into it, America, as a friend of Israel, and friendship implies obligations, will have to tell him that it’s not good for a friend to decide for her ally.

“I think that the United States has the right to have its own national security policy,” said Z. Brzezinski. “I think most Americans would agree with that.” Therefore, clarity on this issue is extremely important for the security of Israel ... ”


The invasion of Iran by a strategist is an act of collective suicide. He does not believe that Iran is making an atomic bomb: after all, there is absolutely no evidence on this score.

* * *


And - a few words in conclusion.

In the evening of November 30, it became known that the representative of Iran to the IAEA, Ali Soltanieh, made a statement. is he сказалthat any attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities will lead to the movement of uranium enrichment centrifuges “to safer places”, and Iran will withdraw from the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. Moreover, military interventions will not stop uranium enrichment.

At the present time, the IRI will make every effort to achieve progress in the negotiations on the nuclear program. Iran, according to Comrade Soltanieh, is ready to "find a balanced solution to the problem."

Observed and translated by Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
14 comments
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  1. d1m1drol
    d1m1drol 3 December 2012 08: 25
    +7
    Well what can I say ... and I want Israel .. and pricks. As there is in a joke: the mice cried, pricked, but continued to eat a cactus ...
    1. PISTOL
      PISTOL 3 December 2012 08: 57
      +4
      The Israelis are not fools either, they understand that if they independently start a war against Iran without warning the United States, then Israel will break like a Tuzik heating pad (new arms deliveries to Palestine from Iran have already begun)
      In general, I have heard a lot lately that Israel will not be in 10-15 years ...
      1. afire
        afire 3 December 2012 09: 13
        +2
        someone would have already given birth, how much can I rub it then))
        diplomats!))
      2. Green
        Green 3 December 2012 09: 25
        -4
        Yeah, there will be no Israel in 10 years. The Israelis will load 85 F-15, 250 f-16, 400 nuclear charges and two and a half thousand merkas on barges and leave with all this belongings in Birobidzhan. And what will greatly strengthen the Far Eastern military district. Because if not this scenario, then the alternative is a nuclear apocalypse. Do you really hate the Jews so much that you are ready to turn your children into atomic mutants in order to see another Holocaust? By the way, who will tear Israel like a heating pad? Hamas does not have rockets; Hezbollah didn’t even sniff during a cloud pillar. Sunite uprisings erupted in northern Lebanon and, in general, another citizen shines in Lebanon. But with Wahhabi fanatics it’s not with the Jews to fight, which they drop leaflets before the bombing. the Wahhabis will slaughter all the Shiites to the devil there and playing football will be cut off by the heads of the babies. This is because only the Jews of the world community of Arab savages are not allowed to kill, and when Arabs slaughter Arabs in millions, it is a struggle for democracy. Hezbollah is afraid to breathe and threw almost all the weapons to the north, he does not rock the boat. They promised to help Assad, but in the end they themselves are guarding themselves from co-religionists, they are afraid to sneeze. By the thugs from the free army, by the way, things would be getting better. There Damascus is being stormed. Looks like dough and weapons tossed, quickly. Hezbollah now only war with Israel was not enough. Israel will knock out arsenals in a filigree with a disarming strike, but the Wahhabis will come running after it to the cleared field, and without any leaflets they will arrange such a dismemberment of Hezbollah that mother does not grieve. You have little idea of ​​the situation in the Middle East. If everything was as simple as the confrontation between bad Jews and good Islamists, but I assure you, if you had to choose with whom to be in the same boat, then the Israelis would be the cutest of the whole company.
        1. BRATISHKA
          BRATISHKA 3 December 2012 10: 31
          +5
          Green,
          Iran never said that it was going to expel or physically destroy the Israelis, it was talked about watered. the system that is based there, which does not sickly deliver hemorrhoids to others.
          Nobody will bomb Iran. The fact of the matter is that the Iranians are not at all Arabs, a completely different culture, a completely different mentality. The Arabs ebbed several billion to create a national aviation industry, but did not even make corn. But the Iranians, while the Jews are noisy and are * amerikosoov, to fight, created for themselves the same siliceous valley. By the way, Russia doesn’t have one, but there is a nano-sterkh and a nano-bear. Israel with amers, of course, can be decided, but the Saudis in this case, pi * dec and the Iranians soak them without blinking an eye. Islam, not Islam ... The Iranians of the Arabs were knocked out after several centuries - the states do not live so much. Amers do not like, like the Arabs, that the Iranians even edited Islam for themselves? Nothing, wipe away the snot and calm down. On twitter and facebook, they * go and that’s where it ends.
          It’s foolish to think that nuclear weapons play a decisive role in the 21st century
          A nuclear bomb is not such a priority for Iran. First of all, the Iranians need a modern military infrastructure that will allow them to move towards the creation of nuclear weapons in two directions - uranium and plutonium. In both directions, the Iranians are already well ahead. They also have an extensive terrorist network of the Al-Quds Brigades in Europe, North America, the same Hezbollah, which, if the opportunity arises, can create decent hemorrhoids around the world.
          Do not compare the Arabs and the Persians, they are different people, Arabs have been talking about the destruction of Israel for 60 years, but if the opportunity arises, they’re ready and will agree to buy American tanks somewhere, somewhere to sell air defense, somewhere to trade, but they haven’t reached the point, Persians, if they say, they mean what they say
          1. Green
            Green 3 December 2012 11: 08
            +2
            Do you want to tell me about the Persians? We have more than an international family, the first wife of my Russian father is Jewish (my mother), the second is Iranian, and my half-brother is quite a half-Persian (although he himself is not happy with this). It is a pity that for more than ten years I could not communicate with him due to the fact that I speak Russian Hebrew and English, and he speaks German (his native language), Spanish and Catalan. but now his English has improved a lot. By the way, my relationship with my father's second wife is much better than with my father. :) Pesras are not Arabs at all, but Hezbollah is Arabs. I myself do not believe in the war between Iran and Israel. And the leadership of Israel, like the political system, I don't like at all. Believe it or not, I have such a personal dislike for all this Israeli bureaucracy that I simply cannot eat. But comparing this system to Iran's degenerate theocracy is ridiculous. Israel, nevertheless, with all the "buts", an advanced country in the field of scientific and technological progress, moving the world in front. Making an unthinkable amount of research and breakthrough discoveries for such a small country. The Persians are a very talented people striving for education, but the most educated layers of the Persians flee from Iran in Europe. By the way, have you been to Iran? I was. (Although I risked, because I am an Israeli citizen, I traveled naturally with a clean Russian passport. And I can say what the regime of mad ayatols turned Iran into, compared to the times of the Shah, this is just horror. HORROR! How could the country be brought to such a decline. Forgive me by the press, but I was there. And not as part of an excursion group, but lived there for three weeks, with his brother's family, communicated with people, in everyday life, as they say. As for the Silicon Valley in Iran, take off your rose-colored glasses, then what is it FRAGMENTS of HUGE scientific potential and reserve and scientific institutions that were created during the Shah. As for the transformation of Israel, God forbid that its terrible political system transforms into something sensible and progressive. But tell me, are you really so naive that you believe that the Palestinians really want to live and sow side by side in peace and harmony with the Jews? And can you really agree with them? More than one generation of Palestinian Arabs has grown up on the ideology of hatred, envy and terror. And they need neither the state, nor prosperity, nor labor, in the name of progress. we Jews should never agree with them, they don’t want to agree on anything. They can only wear electronic muzzles, and wait until a new generation of Arabs grows, not burdened with hatred. but this needs to be dealt with, like Putin in Chechnya. Alas, Israel does not have such leaders and such money to do this, therefore half measures are continuous and regular. We chop the cat's tail in parts, waiting for it to grow again. The fight against terror in Israel is a run up the escalator, which goes down. Continuous and exhausting. We certainly do not need such liberators and enlighteners as the theocracy of underdeveloped ayatollahs. It’s better to be a corrupt, near-minded Bibi, since all the other worthy men of the house of Israel are engaged in science and are not close to politics in a cannon shot. But in general, the chance that such a bureaucracy ends Israel without any Islamists exists and I admit it scares me a little. But in any case, any solution to the Palestinian terror is possible only through tough sweeps and trapping of the terror, much tougher than what the Israeli government is doing now, each time leaving this hydra a couple of goals for growth.
            1. BRATISHKA
              BRATISHKA 3 December 2012 14: 31
              0
              Green,
              There are no revolutions out of the blue :) I haven’t been in Iran, but I talked with guys, young from Iran, visitors, and I have so many friends, no one complains .. You can’t say that they are some kind of super frostbitten fanatics or Islamists .. if the people chose this form of government, then what is the difference what kind of technology or economy they had during the check? In my opinion, being under international pressure under international sanctions, they are still developing, producing something, according to research in the field of nano-technology, Iran is in 12th place in the world, who is talking about this? a lot of money goes into science, medicine, engineering, there would be a check, the situation in Iran would be like in Saudi Arabia, parasitically stupid for oil, yes they have cool planes, yes they have cool tanks, yes they have modern air defense, but it all for the money, they have nothing of their own ..

              The Shah wanted to take away the religion of the people, when in your country most of the population is poor, and you take the last from them - Faith, there will be a revolution.
              1. Green
                Green 3 December 2012 14: 51
                0
                Damn, what is the 12th place in the field of nanotechnology! Patent numbers in the studio, the name of the materials, technologies and the names of scientists. This is no longer an argument in the dispute. 12th place, from the end. About the Saudis, there’s even nothing to say, obscurantists, Iran is certainly a civilization in comparison with them, but on that basis, which was a huge pullback. No need to sing about the poor population under the Shah. Look at the figures of GDP, and most importantly, the rate of economic growth. Just Pahlavi turned and pressed the tail of American-watched corporations, setting the course for active cooperation, but not robbery by lawlessness, and the CIA supported Toly Khomyakov. (It is generally common for Americans to support scumbag radicals, and then slurp g * apparently with large spoons) And what do you want to show with this photograph? Free and happy people. So it’s certainly better:


                1. Green
                  Green 3 December 2012 15: 03
                  +1
                  By the way, under Pahlavi, engineering was developing very actively and there was no parasitism in oil. Khomeini ruined the great Persian civilization. Cut off on take-off. Radical theocracy and science are mutually exclusive things. By the way, if Mossad is involved in the killing of physicists, then I would be extremely depressed by this. Killing scientists is a crime against science and progress. And the more scientists, the faster this regime collapses. Such theocracy can rely precisely on the most ignorant sections of the population. And these nuclear scientists would ultimately grind the regime from the inside out, simply because of the specifics of scientific thinking. And religion doesn’t have to wave in front of my nose. For me, this is not just not value, but social poison, the antithesis of science and a relic of primitive thinking.
                  1. BRATISHKA
                    BRATISHKA 3 December 2012 15: 54
                    +1
                    Green,
                    I totally agree with you, because I am an atheist and I don’t recognize any religions, But what’s the matter! Iran with its Islam does not fit into us, it is a religion of internal use, and there are no problems from it (except to Americans or Jews :) It's just parallel to me personally, if people want to live like that, let them live - they do not bother me, and the rest the world, too, if the whole world does not take the United States and Israel. )
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 3 December 2012 18: 08
                      0
                      Quote: BRATISHKA
                      I totally agree with you, because I am an atheist and I don’t recognize any religions, But what’s the matter! Iran with its Islam does not creep into us, it is a religion of internal use, and there are no problems from it (except perhaps to Americans or Jews :)

                      You are deeply mistaken, because far from it!
                      We live in the neighborhood, constantly trying not only with us but wherever they can, to promote our lifestyle, by hook or by crook !!
                      Please read the keynote address of Khomeini, it was the export of the Islamic revolution in the world, he considered the most important !!
                  2. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 3 December 2012 18: 00
                    +4
                    Quote: Verde

                    By the way, under Pahlavi, engineering was developing very actively and there was no parasitism in oil. Khomeini ruined the great Persian civilization.

                    I do not agree a bit!
                    I have relatives and very wealthy in Iran!
                    I remember they talked about how great it was during the Shah for them (the rich)!
                    What at night in nightclubs we missed, slept during the day!
                    What in restaurants, hotels, in clubs worked exclusively Filipinos!
                    I think when the shah the society began to degrade, in principle, those relatives also agreed with me!
                    The question is not Khomeini, if he had not been, would have been different !!
                    In Iran, the clergy was originally a force! The city of Qom is considered the cradle of learned theologians! And the system of mustehids adopted by the Shiites allowed and allows them to have a huge army of supporters, especially among the poor!
                    Ayatollahs having huge profits do not spend anything on themselves, live in Spartan conditions, lead an ascetic lifestyle!
                    So that no one speaks, they do not give cause for discontent, corruption, wealth!
                    Almost all of their incomes, many millions they give out to the poor !!
                    1. Green
                      Green 3 December 2012 23: 42
                      0
                      Hitler also led a completely ascetic lifestyle, was a vegetarian and loved animals.
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 3 December 2012 23: 53
                        +3
                        Quote: Verde
                        Hitler also led a completely ascetic lifestyle, was a vegetarian and loved animals.

                        These are different things, in his environment were lovers of luxury and pederasts and all that!
                        And almost all of the Iranian clergy lead an ascetic lifestyle and give away all their wealth !!
                        Another thing is that their policy has nothing to do with Islamic values, it is a fact!
                        They have a policy of Persian chauvinism!
                        They are still more nationalists than Islamists!
                      2. Green
                        Green 4 December 2012 00: 17
                        +1
                        I do not compare the ideology of the NSDAP with the rhetoric of Khomeini, these are different forms of chauvinism. And I just say that not everything in the world is unequivocal and cannibals can be ascetics. Moreover, Iranian Shiism per se is not chauvinistic towards national minorities and even towards Jews inside Iran, as well as towards Azerbaijanis, who by the way, like Jews, also occupy high masters. (I noted this in the post above) But the policy of intimidation of neighbors and repressions against their own population is simply monstrous. Alibek, this is a criminal regime. And the number of death sentences for women for misconduct that is not even an administrative violation in all developed countries is simply terrible.
                      3. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 4 December 2012 00: 33
                        0
                        Quote: Verde
                        Moreover, Iranian Shiism per se is not chauvinistic towards national minorities and even towards Jews inside Iran, as well as towards Azerbaijanis, who by the way, like Jews, also occupy high masters. (I noted this post above)

                        I assure you, you are mistaken !!
                        Very chauvinistic !!

                        Azerbaijanis there are politically very active!
                        This is a rally against the deliberate drainage of Lake Urmia!
                        There, only those Azerbaijanis come forward who assimilated, who consider themselves to be a big Persian!
                        and Khamenei never said that he was Azerbaijani, he said that one of his grandfathers was Turkish!
                        He considers himself an Arab!
                      4. Green
                        Green 4 December 2012 00: 38
                        0
                        Thanks for the video, Alibek. So I misunderstood this moment. If Iran also suppresses the population in southern Azerbaijan, then centrifugal forces will even more quickly tear up this country, which has been repressed by repression, with the slightest weakness. ay, with external influence (like the influence of the Tomahawks), many areas will also separate from Iran.
                      5. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 4 December 2012 08: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Verde
                        If Iran also suppresses the population in southern Azerbaijan, then centrifugal forces will even more quickly tear up this country, which has been repressed by repression, with the slightest weakness. ay, with external influence (like the influence of the Tomahawks), many areas will also separate from Iran.

                        The population of South Azerbaijan as I wrote above is much more politically active than the population in the north!
                        Just look at the history of the 20th century, the rebellion of Satarkhan and Pishevari!
                        Since the time of the Islamic Revolution, Azerbaijanis are probably the only ethnic group that constantly and actively fight for their rights !!
                        As for the Tomahawks, I agree with you, but there not only Azerbaijanis are ready to take up arms, but also the Kurds, who are already engaged in armed struggle and, of course, organizations such as * Mujahideen-e-halgh * !!
                      6. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 4 December 2012 00: 41
                        0
                        Here is another video, fans of the Tabriz football club, despite all the persecutions, support their club!
                        And associate it with their nationality!
                    2. Green
                      Green 4 December 2012 00: 30
                      0
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      I think when the shah the society began to degrade, in principle, those relatives also agreed with me!


                      not everything is so simple, greater freedom of thought and freedom of creativity, and implies more responsibility. Some parts of Israel march in gay pride parades, while others are developing new anti-cancer drugs, inventing new processors and discovering new genetic engineering techniques. Under Pihlevi, Iran made a huge breakthrough in education. Yes, like everywhere else, some part of the golden youth rushed into the abyss of fun and a whirlpool of ongoing parties. But it cannot be said that the country has degraded. At the same time, there were centers of theology and science, and yes, their revelers. everyone was free to rise in spiritual development or fall. This regime will collapse, with the growth of education and science for internal reasons, and if they suppress the freedom of scientific thought (which can go against religious dogmas) they will destroy and bloodless scientific progress. Nobody has managed to sit on these two chairs. The USSR in 84, too, seemed indestructible and eternal, but fell apart at an appalling speed.
                      1. BRATISHKA
                        BRATISHKA 4 December 2012 13: 59
                        0
                        http://www.defence.pk/forums/iranian-defence/156164-made-iran.html кстати кому интересно, по этой ссылке, можно посмотреть перечень производимого в Иране, список довольно внушителен, начиная от Бытовой техники, и Автомобилей, заканчивая БПЛА и Смарфонами и Операционными системами собственного пр-ва
                2. BRATISHKA
                  BRATISHKA 3 December 2012 15: 51
                  +5
                  Quote: Verde
                  Damn, what is the 12th place in the field of nanotechnology!

                  The most important indicators of the development of science, technology and nanotechnology in Iran:

                  The number of research and university centers in the field of nanoscience - 65
                  The number of publications published in Iran on nanotechnology is 4812 articles (from the beginning of 2000 to the end of December 2010), including 1713 articles in 2010.
                  Iran ranks 14th in the world in the number of publications on nanotechnology (as of December 2010)
                  The number of inventions registered in international organizations in the field of nanotechnology is 48 (as of the end of November 2010)
                  The number of patents granted is 16 (for 2010).
                  The number of manufacturing enterprises working in the field of nanotechnology - 95
                  The number of companies providing services in the field of nanotechnology - 24
                  The number of commercial companies working in the field of nanotechnology - 10 companies
                  The number of types of nanoproducts - 46


                  If you are not banned in Google, you can see, not only in the Russian segment but also in the American one :) For 2011, Iran was already in 12th place, as far as I know)

                  Iran has become the fastest growing scientific power. This conclusion was made in a report by Science-Metrix, the compilers of which analyzed the development of science in the world over the past 30 years. A frantic desire to conquer the scientific Olympus was noted not only in Iran, but in the countries of the Middle East in general - according to the findings of the report, science in them develops four times faster than the average level.
                  The document notes that since 1980 the number of articles in various fields of science written by experts from the Middle East has grown markedly. Iran turned out to be the most prolific among Middle Eastern states - over 30 years, the number of articles published by scholars from the Islamic Republic has increased 11 times compared to the world average. Turkey took second place with a 5,5-fold increase in the number of publications.

                  Sources are also in full view, Tape, RMG, Rambler, you can dig into the English-language resources in the chat on Science-Metrix. :)

                  Look at the figures of GDP, and most importantly, the rate of economic growth.

                  And where is the GDP?) I'm talking about the standard of living, well, it doesn’t happen out of the blue of revolution, Khomeini was in Paris in general during the revolution, how could he coordinate or incite the people against Shah? Don't you think that people are still tired of living in poverty and looking at the shah’s palaces?

                  And what do you want to show with this photo? Free and happy people. So it’s certainly better:

                  No, not that you .. That's so much better! Pride Parade in Tel Aviv :) Also free, HAPPY people)


                  And about your photos, undoubtedly, Iranians, savages! the killers! scumbags!
                  Death Penalty - USA

                  Death Penalty - China
                  1. Green
                    Green 3 December 2012 16: 52
                    +2
                    In the eighty millionth Iran in 2011, about 75 international patents were filed. In five millionth Israel there are more than 60. These peaceful dudes in pink shorts bother me less than the gallows for people who just want to love each other wink (in any case, everyone chooses who to love if he does not impose his love on those who are not happy with such love) Islam in Iran is really very tolerant of both Jews living in Iran and Armenians and many other ethno-confessional groups of which countless. And I am completely not a supporter of the extermination of the Iranians. What do you want to prove to me? What are the majority of Iranians nice people? I know this no worse than you. Would I like a bombing strike on Iran that will plunge the country into the Stone Age? My answer is categorical and unequivocal - no, by no means. I conveyed to you the feeling that people in turn shared with me. The feeling is a slight longing of the late collapsing USSR of the early Gorbi era. Rallies, protests, according to the order, population fatigue, longing for the shah. You still have to consider the factor of psychology. here in Russia, I react very sharply when Israel is being poured with mud, and here in Russia I often criticize a lot of what is happening in this country. And in Israel, when I encounter (say among Moroccan Jews) neglect or an attempt to humiliate Russia, I am ready to cleanse these comrades' faces to a samovar shine, explaining to them in parallel about Gagarin and ballet. Iranians in Russia are still a little homesick for Iran, and criticizing the regime they don’t particularly like in a foreign country, it’s kind of throwing a stone towards their homeland. The number of patents 16, 50, and even 1500 (although there are not 1500) for a country like Iran is negligible. Israel annually registers dozens of thousand patents for a five millionth country. And you correctly mentioned that the CA or Qatar could undoubtedly be proud of fifty patents a year, but for Iran this is negligible, despite the fact that in Germany, a huge number of Persians are employed in science. Persians are people with an initially very strong desire for education, akin to Jews. Among European immigrants from Iran, a huge number of doctors of sciences, doctors, researchers. I do not idealize the Shah’s regime, I didn’t live there in the end at that time. But what I felt had a very strong effect on me. And I think that my opinion is close to the truth, although of course it cannot be objective, and it is such that the ayatol regime relies on the most ignorant sections of society and young people, with brainwashed. I do not presume to judge whether the majority will take a sigh of vestment when this regime collapses, but the fact that most of the Iranian intelligentsia will exhale is relieved. And any mode, especially having time to raise a large number of fanatics and relying on a repressive apparatus, has a high degree of resistance. And an objective look at education, scientific progress and the economy shows that the ayatol regime harmed Persian civilization. Moreover, in solving its internal tasks, the leadership of the Islamic Republic of Iran chose the path of extremely aggressive rhetoric towards completely not ideal, but quite friendly Israel as a whole, and dangerous games with terrorists (terry terryugs) shooting not even soldiers, but peaceful people, schoolchildren (like this It was during the last incident, when the militants hit a school bus near the border with Gaza with a cornette. There were no dead people by miracle. And I can’t justify this approach, and in this light, I’m ready to support the sanctions and the most active actions against the regime, but not in any case, not a total war against the Iranian people, and as I understand it, My and Your positions are not antogonistic, but only differ in details.
                    1. Green
                      Green 3 December 2012 16: 53
                      0
                      I hope you still do not justify (by any motive) the targeted firing of PRTK on school buses, even if Jewish children not too beloved by you are transported in it? Or missile bombardment of exclusively non-military targets? The regime is agonizing, and rallying the most dark and ignorant forces on the basis of anti-Israeli sentiments is a long-standing trick in the Islamic world. Alas, the crazy leadership of Israel, instead of showing flexibility and rationality, only exacerbates the situation, also pursuing, in general, not too noble goals. And yet even the aggressive Bibi does not give orders to blow up Iranian schoolchildren in buses. But RAKHBAR crossed the line of good and evil, unleashing terror against innocent Israelis, many of whom did not even vote and did not support this government.
                      1. Green
                        Green 3 December 2012 16: 59
                        +1
                        Anyway, thanks for the discussion.
                      2. BRATISHKA
                        BRATISHKA 4 December 2012 06: 59
                        0
                        Green,
                        Understand me correctly, I do not justify terrorist attacks, I do not justify the killing of Israelis, just in my opinion, it is better for Israel to sit at the negotiating table with the Iranians, without the participation of Americans or anyone else from the outside, and discuss all the problems, more than sure that they can agree if those will not get into this mess - those who are interested in the tension on the BV understand a terrorist attack, they’re not firing a shot just like that, they’re profitable to someone — who, I think, shouldn’t explain, the SA, Qatar, UAE, civilians are not respected in any way right, there is no parliament, the authorities essentially say Wahhabis sponsoring world terrorism, why don't Americans say a word against them? because they are their strategic allies, they have a fleet base of 5 there and the Saudis have no problems. In Iran, women have the right to vote, have the right to drive a car, there is a parliament, is there a president who is elected in normal fair elections, is this a violation of rights? The Americans are afraid that the people around Iran will want the same form of government, confirm this in Bahrain, can you imagine if there will be a revolution in Saudi Arabia or the UAE and theocracy will be established there? The world will look different then, and my respect for Iranians, Iran is Persia, and this is the first superpower even before Rome, why the hell do you surprise them. They didn’t hear of any America when there was already an ancient civilization in the place of Iran, not like Israel, with its parades of pride
                      3. Green
                        Green 4 December 2012 08: 45
                        0
                        our views on the world are obviously very close. The only problem is that Israel really has nothing to agree on with the Iranians. Between them 1500 km and no territorial disputes. As for the Palestinian Arabs, there is nothing to negotiate with them for a completely different reason. But I do not whitewash Israel. The whole history of Israel is a series of mistakes when one entails the other. Even at one time, faced with rejection of the Arab world, young Israel should have shown both toughness and wisdom by decapitating the top of the Palestinian militants, and not rejecting the Palestinians themselves, turning them into outcasts, a terrorist people and not giving up the Palestinian people to their own cannibals to terrorists, but adopt a large integration program, taking a course towards their full equality and the full and unlimited integration of Palestinian Arabs into the common economy, education and society. Alas, the Israeli leadership has made a number of mistakes, showing cruelty where it is not necessary and not showing decisiveness when such decisiveness was required. The result is a series of mistakes, where one gives birth to the other, spinning a spiral of stupidity and madness on both sides. As for Iran, the leadership of Israel is certainly not doing enough to find an approach to the Iranians. Yes, now the Iranian regime is not too friendly, and yet restraint should have been shown, and not foolishly wave their fists. You can hit - hit, you can’t, don’t wave your fists, but get out of your skin to settle the differences of peace. Arabian monarchies are real cannibals, Wahhabi fascists. and the US commits a crime against humanity by embarking on the unrighteous side of history by supporting these regimes. They act on the principle of (paraphrasing) That which is permitted to the manual rats of Jupiter is not allowed to the bull. and here I fully and unconditionally agree with you. and as for Persia, I will say more, it’s not only the people who built the great civilization in the past, but also now who have not lost their great potential. In Iran, a lot is being done in terms of science and engineering. It’s just that I undertake to assert that this is not done thanks to, but contrary to the regime, because the intellectual potential of the Persian people is colossal. And when the regime undergoes changes for the better, more progressive side (preferably without external violence), this liberated potential will lead Iran to proper prosperity. You should no longer return to the CA and Qatar. You will not find an opponent in me. These are deeply criminal regimes. Their place in the dock, in Nuremberg, and not under the wing of a superpower, preaching in words the principles of freedom, equality and enlightenment, but in fact supporting monstrous obscurantist regimes.
                      4. BRATISHKA
                        BRATISHKA 4 December 2012 09: 45
                        0
                        Green,
                        Well, since the Israelis are happy with everything, let them join the NPT and hold pride parades, and Iran is a fast-growing developing country, they do not have enough electricity, and therefore they develop nuclear energy, let them build further nuclear power plants, conduct research, doesn’t it suit Israel? Or do Americans not like it? Saudis and Qatari can also come to an agreement with Iran if, again, the Americans don’t climb, it seems to me that things are moving towards the fact that in the near future the main strike force in the Middle East will be China, and the Muslim world will be satellite both America - Europe and in the future there will be China - the Middle East, the Saudis will be shoved sooner or later, and all the other emirates, Qatar and Kuwait will fall behind them, these are formations held up by the strike force - the United States, the same Israel, then it will really have to come to an agreement, physically Israel no longer destroy how they say it.
                      5. Green
                        Green 4 December 2012 10: 44
                        0
                        God grant that it would be somehow so. I’m afraid that the Americans, losing power, leaving and leaving chaos behind them, will by all means turn the region into a blazing hell, in order to prevent the inevitable strengthening of China in it. Humanity is on the verge of revolutionary technological and scientific breakthroughs. We do not need much time yet, and I hope that humanity has it, and we will not burn each other in the atomic flame in the heat of senseless fanatical hatred. And all that ordinary Israelis would like to be left alone on a tiny piece of land and not tried to destroy the fanatics obsessed with the darkest religious ideology. Well, what do bureaucrats who have come to power want?
                    2. BRATISHKA
                      BRATISHKA 3 December 2012 17: 46
                      +3
                      In the eighty millionth Iran in 2011, about 75 international patents were filed. In five millionth Israel, more than 60.

                      where are these numbers from? :)
                      And I want to prove to you that it is possible to live quite successfully and not pounding in f * ck, unlike the whole "civil" world, Iranians hang lovers of pounding in certain places, and this is buzzing! and they also hang pedophiles, and the like good uncles, and we give 2-4 years probation for pedophilia, God forbid, if they go to prison, this is worth learning, the Iranians present new thinking to the world, Ahmadinejad is a techie engineer, his faith does not prevent him from remaining the same just like the rest of the scientists in Iran
                    3. Tourist Breakfast
                      Tourist Breakfast 3 December 2012 17: 56
                      0
                      (as it was during the last incident, when the militants hit the school bus near the border with Gaza with a cornet. There were no dead people by miracle.


                      Of the two on the bus, one died (boy), one was injured (driver).
                    4. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 3 December 2012 18: 28
                      -1
                      Quote: Verde
                      And I think that my opinion is close to the truth, although of course it cannot be objective, and it is such that the ayatol regime relies on the most ignorant sections of society and young people, with brainwashed. Not

                      I read your comment with interest!
                      The question is the love of Islam, the Prophet and HIS family !!
                      The clergy simply privatized the exclusive right to lead the process and knowledge!
                      Quote: Verde
                      I do not presume to judge whether the majority will take a sigh of vestment when this regime collapses, but the fact that most of the Iranian intelligentsia will exhale is relieved.

                      I agree with you in this, but the regime will not collapse, the clergy will not go anywhere!
                      The clergy has further strengthened in society over these 30 years !! No regime can manage the population without them!
                      There is one hope that a truly reasonable and fair person will come to the leadership!
                      Quote: Verde
                      . Moreover, in solving its internal problems, the leadership of Iran chose the path of extremely aggressive rhetoric

                      I assure you they do not solve any internal problem !!
                      That attitude and aggressive rhetoric, which is in relation to Israel, is in relation to all neighbors!
                      It’s just Israel’s number one target (see Thu Khomeini’s speech on Jerusalem (Goods))
                      1. Green
                        Green 4 December 2012 00: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        That attitude and aggressive rhetoric, which is in relation to Israel, is in relation to all neighbors!


                        Yeah, Iran does not have a single ally and friend among its immediate neighbors having a common border with it.
                3. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 3 December 2012 18: 05
                  +2
                  Quote: Verde
                  So it’s certainly better:

                  I am not a supporter of the regime’s policy in Iran, but I consider these photos unethical!
                  You do not know why she was executed ??
                  Maybe for the murder of their children, husband or drug trafficking ??
                  I remember on the Internet the Wahhabis distributed shots of executions of the leader of the organization * Dzhunshulah * with comments like - ** Shiites execute Sunni, Sunni smiles in the face of Shiites before execution !! ***
                  And people who were a little familiar with the case knew that this guy was organizing the bombing of generals in one of the border regions of Iran!
                  He was a terrorist!
                  1. Green
                    Green 3 December 2012 23: 40
                    0
                    The second in the photo is Atekesh Rajabi, a sixteen-year-old girl sentenced by a court to be hanged "for actions incompatible with chastity." She herself claimed to have been raped, but the court found her words unconvincing. In addition, in court, she took off her handkerchief and appealed to the court with her back to the judge. which is an act of contempt of court. If this is a reason for an Iranian judge to hang a 16 year old girl, then I would personally strangle these judges, without the slightest trembling in my knees. Alibek, this is unthinkable in any case, even if she spat in the face of this judge and rubbed it with a wet rag over his fascist face. I am shaken by this and hundreds of other similar stories. At such moments, the rage of powerlessness boils in me, this is EXTREME sadism and injustice. The regime must be demolished, and Ali Khamenei must be executed without the slightest doubt.
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 3 December 2012 23: 51
                      +2
                      Quote: Verde
                      The second in the photo is Atekesh Rajabi, a sixteen-year-old girl sentenced by a court to be hanged "for actions incompatible with chastity." She herself claimed to have been raped, but the court found her words unconvincing. In addition, in court, she took off her handkerchief and appealed to the court with her back to the judge. which is an act of contempt of court.

                      Dear Ilya!
                      I don’t know where you get this information from, to put it mildly false!
                      Atakesh Rajabi sentenced to death for prostitution!
                      There’s not just someone to catch in such a thing !!
                      Do not get me wrong, I am against this, but there the citizens of the country know what they are facing severe punishment for!
                      According to my data from Iranian sources, she was not 16 years old, but 22 years old !!
                      and talking about a judge seems like a lie, since such sentences have long been handed down live, that is, shown on TV!
                      1. Green
                        Green 4 December 2012 00: 05
                        0
                        Yes, forgive Alibek, you are right, Atekesh was 22, and a sixteen-year-old girl sentenced to trial for "unchastity" was also called Hadji Rozae. I got it wrong. I am not claiming that she did not violate ethics. And that's why I am pushing that even if she was justly caught in "actions that do not correspond to the morality of the Republic of Iran", this is not a reason for the execution of the unfortunate girl. Even if she really showed contempt of the court. (This is indicated in the materials of the court) But the point is that such cases are not isolated.
                      2. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 4 December 2012 00: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Verde
                        Even if she really showed disrespect for the court.

                        Sorry Ilya, but she was not executed for contempt of court!
                        I repeat against this, I do not think this is right!
                        But are there really few children who kill beer for a bottle because they did not let them play a computer!
                        I don’t know, I don’t know, I cannot but blame, disapprove!
                        I hope you understood me correctly!
                      3. Green
                        Green 4 December 2012 00: 43
                        0
                        I understood your position this way: you agree that guilt does not correspond to punishment, but you consider that the law is the law, even if it is cannibalistic. Reprimanding for such behavior is perhaps appropriate, but Alibek! The girls were HANGED.
                      4. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 4 December 2012 08: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Verde
                        Reprimanding for such behavior is perhaps appropriate, but Alibek! The girls were HANGED.

                        Ilya, here I agree with you !!
                      5. Green
                        Green 4 December 2012 09: 02
                        0
                        Alibek, forgive me, I showed liberty (perhaps not permissible) and switched to "you", We seem to be meeting for the first time on this forum, so either I should apologize, or you should contact me on "you".
        2. mizantropi
          mizantropi 3 December 2012 19: 47
          0
          You are comrade-UDOFIL! Shame on any decent person ...
        3. enkor
          enkor 3 December 2012 21: 06
          0
          Oh how! It can’t be!
    2. Dnepropetrovsk
      Dnepropetrovsk 6 December 2012 23: 15
      0
      I liked the economic section more.
  2. Sars
    Sars 3 December 2012 08: 39
    +3
    Israel has a much weaker opponent - the Gaza Strip, problems have been identified, and here such a colossus like Iran.
    1. Green
      Green 3 December 2012 09: 06
      -2
      And what are the actual problems? The dome works, the arsenals were effectively destroyed with precision weapons, the reservists were shaken, so that they would not be sour, the aircraft worked filigree. Not even human shields, the pasture of women and children on the roofs of buildings and the placement of installations in kindergartens and childbirths did not help. Only one and a half hundred Palestinians died and the so-called peaceful Islamists are less than half of those killed, the rest are not peaceful Islamists. And do not be confused, it was not a war. Strip is not an adversary, it is hemorrhoids. The volley rocket artillery of Israel could have leveled the gas off the face of the earth in a few minutes (not hours, namely minutes), but the Jews performed another virtuoso tango for the world community. There are many other difficulties with Iran, and the task for the Israeli Air Force is really difficult. But it would be even more interesting to see how the Israelis once again turn out to be smarter than all their neighbors. However, I can’t believe that Israel will take such a step, and not for military, but for political reasons. Big brother apparently has his own plans for atomic Iran. Weapons are bought little in the region (although much more, there are already two grenades for each Arabian monkey), and there will be an atomic scarecrow in the person of Iran, oh how the THAADs and Patriots rush to buy, just have time to ship.
  3. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 3 December 2012 09: 02
    0
    Israel, of course, is afraid of being hit by a nuclear strike, and not without reason, but I think the reason is the desire of the United States to seize also Iranian oil. The war for resources.
    1. Kaa
      Kaa 3 December 2012 09: 56
      +4
      Quote: There was a mammoth
      Israel, of course, is afraid of being hit by a nuclear strike, and not without reason,

      And what are the reasons! Apparently, Iran already has nuclear weapons, only to declare it not with the hands of an aggressor will be denounced to the whole world, And the United States and Israel - make "a good face with a bad game" it is creation. Similarly, the US slapped in the DPRK earlier. Judge for yourself:
      "The" immoral behavior "of the world powers that seek the economic isolation of Iran has made the Islamic Republic space and nuclear powerIranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Friday.
      On February 2, Iran successfully launched the first national satellite, Omid (Nadezhda), into low-Earth orbit using its Safir-2 (Messenger) launch vehicle. Iran's first satellite has been launched into low-Earth orbit with a perigee of 250 kilometers and an apogee of about 450 kilometers. The satellite weighs almost 27 kilograms. March 13, Friday, 2009
      «Iran is now a nuclear power, - Ahmadinejad announced at a rally in Tehran yesterday. “I want to announce in a loud voice that the first batch of 20 percent fuel was produced and handed over to scientists.” According to him, Iran “can enrich uranium even up to 80 percent level, but it won’t do it, because there is no need for it,” Nezavisimaya Gazeta, 12.02.2010. http://i-r-p.ru/page/stream-event/index-25532.html
      "Some media in Iran suggest anthropogenic nature of the earthquake
      Earthquake in Iran triggered by underground nuclear tests. This is stated in a message spread by the Iranian web resource Balatarin. In discussions on this topic, site visitors suggest that the Iranian government is refusing foreign humanitarian aid for this very reason, deliberately underestimating the scale of the tragedy and keeping silent about its details. All this causes indignation, discontent among citizens, and also serves as a breeding ground for all sorts of rumors. "13-08-2012 http://haqqin.az/ictimai/1826-zemletryasenie-ili-yadernoe-ispytanie.html
      It was the same in the DPRK - at first the Americans bashfully shouted:
      “American intelligence agencies, based on some indications, believe that the explosion in North Korea was not a nuclear bomb. October 11 2006http://ru.nationsim.wikia.com/
      And only then there was nowhere to go:
      Today, the DPRK officially announced the successful conduct of the second nuclear test (the first was in 2006). (May 25, 2009, 15:20) http://www.kp.ru/daily/24298.5/492908/
      So, it is likely that "it's too late to drink Borzhom, when the lungs have fallen off" - the question of bombing or not bombing is removed, like ... weird ...
      1. Green
        Green 3 December 2012 10: 08
        -2
        It is possible, but devoid of logic. The meaning of nuclear weapons, to keep silent about this? NF gives immunity to attack and dramatically raises status. And to do it quietly, so that in the event of a strike, attack Israel on the unexpected, so it must be completely insane. Jews of course will be fried, but not all in small quantities, but a massive response will be terrifying, and then the Iranians will be full of fuss. This simply does not make sense. The DPRK did not remain silent a day about its nuclear weapons. On the contrary, nuclear weapons of the DPRK are a great way of blackmailing, or you give us bread and fuels and lubricants, or we give you nuclear weapons. Very effective by the way. I do not refute your assumption, it may well be true. But there is absolutely no logic in such behavior.
        1. Kaa
          Kaa 3 December 2012 10: 23
          +1
          Quote: Verde
          The meaning of nuclear weapons, to keep silent about this?

          So did in due time Israel, South Africa.
          Quote: Verde
          And to do it quietly, so that in the event of a strike, attack Israel on the unexpected, so you have to be completely insane

          On this I agree, but nuclear weapons - a deterrent weapon, like a chemical one in World War II, everyone had - and no one used it, so as not to be shocked in response. Israel was creating for something, not to smash its neighbors "by surprise", but so that it would not be touched ...
          1. Green
            Green 3 December 2012 11: 22
            -1
            South Africa was given away, but for Israel it is a different situation. Israel's nuclear weapons is a guarantee of "no betrayal" of the elder brother. USA more 10 once imposed sanctions and embargoes on the supply of arms to Israel, leaving their younger brother to the mercy of fate and their cannibal neighbors. And so there is always an argument. "We will not fight back with conventional weapons, we will shy away with nuclear weapons," and this argument immediately and always since the appearance of nuclear weapons has sobered Big Brother. Israel's nuclear weapons are no secret for the United States, big brother knows exactly what Israel has and what doesn't. South Africa did secretly (by the way, Israel did something, and the tests of South African nuclear devices were actually a joint test of the Israeli design) out of fear of sanctions. And in the end, when they nevertheless pressed their eggs, he surrendered his nuclear program, again turning into a nuclear-free country. And Iran is already under the most severe sanctions. They are no longer afraid of any threats, the nuts are already tightened so that either the thread will rip off, or the wrench will break. So the comparisons are not correct. But again, I am not refuting in any way your words. Realizing that the Ayatollahs may have some kind of logic inaccessible to me. If you see any other reasons for doing this by Iran, then with great interest I would have listened to your arguments and arguments in order to sort it out for myself, because similar doubts crept into my soul too. but so far I cannot find a single logical reason for such behavior. With respect.
  4. valokordin
    valokordin 3 December 2012 09: 22
    +3
    Iran is not a friend to us, but at present it is an ally who needs to be helped, like Syria, by supplying air defense systems, and Assad should also deliver combat helicopters with ammunition. And do not be shy.
    1. Green
      Green 3 December 2012 09: 33
      -3
      You just need to understand that these helicopters will be for Assad instead of new schools and kindergartens, which are so lacking, because Assad will never pay for them, however, as always.
      1. sergo0000
        sergo0000 3 December 2012 11: 43
        +3
        Green,
        Just do not scratch here about the school!
        There will be peace and schools! But about paying this is the prerogative of Gazprom and the government, but not yours.
        1. Green
          Green 3 December 2012 11: 56
          -4
          What are you, what are you! Yes, of course, please send me a calculation only with the deduction of my taxes, otherwise I also work and pay taxes in this country. And I would very much like that the money would be spent on education (one of the best in the world that I was lucky to get) And at your expense, please, at least the whole Su-47 air division, and the whole S-500 division. By the way, what does Gazprom have to do with it? Does he seem to sell gas, not helicopters? lol
          1. sergo0000
            sergo0000 3 December 2012 13: 22
            +1
            Green,
            Let's just say that for me personally, the confrontation in Syria has a purely human and moral significance, which cannot be said about state interests, where morality is the last thing!
            The state, unlike the citizen, is guided by purely pragmatic interests. The benefit of Russia and Gazprom, in particular, lies in the strengthening of the Assad regime, because. gas from Qatar to Europe. Russia doesn't need nafig directly!
            Why do we need a competitor?
            1. Green
              Green 3 December 2012 14: 10
              +1
              I also read stupidity about the pipeline through Syria. Only a very naive person could come up with this. There, in Syria, it’s not just a gas pipeline; there grass will not grow for another 50 years. Well, what a gas pipeline! There is a citizen who will rage for sooo long. And no gas from Qatar will go anywhere for a long time. And if the Egyptian teraryugs at Sinai strengthen, then this could also undermine shipping along the Suez Canal. So do not worry about gas. As for morality, remove the pink glasses. Arabian cannibals decided to gobble Alawite cannibals in Syria. The simple people are terribly sorry, but everything that happens has its own logic. There would be unity and there would be no support for Wahhabi people * they would have no one to rely on. Yes, and the Assad regime (Hafez, Papa Bashar) shed a lot of blood, and Bashar is just a hostage. Honor and will not allow him to escape and catapult from this burning cauldron, so he has to reap the storm that the tyrant popped. He was a real cannibal. It is not guns that need to be driven there, but refugees, truly civilians, must be saved and evacuated. And cannibals and everyone sympathizing with them (on both sides) let them find out who has fangs more. Objectively, Russia, leaving all emotions there is no interest. Despite the fact that I personally sympathize with Assad, believing that if the Israelis can still come to at least some kind of agreement, then, of course, there will be no conversation with the Wahhabis except war and continuous terror.
  5. vlad tanks
    vlad tanks 3 December 2012 10: 15
    0
    Move centrifuges to Birobidzhan
    1. Green
      Green 3 December 2012 11: 26
      0
      Why in Birobidzhan? In Birobidzhan, it seems like Stalin for the Jews staked out a place. By the way, with all the laughter, they say that the places in the Jewish Autonomous Region are beautiful, and the severity of winters is compensated by the adequacy of the neighbors. :)
  6. wax
    wax 3 December 2012 18: 54
    +1
    Obtaining nuclear weapons by Iran is a necessary element for restoring equilibrium in the Middle East and its borderland. I don’t remember that the world progressive public screeched hysterically about the nuclear weapons of Pakistan and Israel.
    1. Beck
      Beck 3 December 2012 19: 53
      +1
      Quote: Wax
      Obtaining nuclear weapons by Iran is a necessary element for restoring equilibrium in the Middle East and its borderland. I don’t remember that the world progressive public screeched hysterically about the nuclear weapons of Pakistan and Israel.


      Equilibrium in the Middle East is important to you. But the equilibrium in the Russian Caucasus and the equilibrium in Central Asia, where these or other allies of Russia, do not you care ??? Inspired by the Islamic nuclear bomb, extremism will definitely raise its head. You will not be important possible victims of extremism among Russians ???

      You that welcome the statement of the Ayatollah on the establishment of a NEW ISLAMIC ORDER in the world. At which, logically, it will be necessary to do the general circumcision of the whole of Russia. So with the nuclear weapons, the ayatols may not establish a new order, but they will put people in darkness. That is why the West does not want the unbalanced, blind from religious postulates ayatollahs to have nuclear weapons. In addition, the ayatols declared the United States the great Satan, and Russia the small Satan and threatened to kill the big one first, and then the small one.

      Nuclear weapons of Pakistan and Israel, as well as India. Never, nowhere has any official leader of these countries officially declared that it is imperative to erase any state and necessarily destroy any nation. Although relations between Pakistan and India are strained. But Ahmadi Nejad said this more than once from various stands. That is why the world community is more or less calm about the possession of nuclear weapons by India, Pakistan, Israel and is alarmed by the desire of Iran.

      Well, here are some indicators that Iran is an ally of your worldview, besides the fact that both of you should have America in your pocket for any reason and for no reason. Are you related by a group of peoples? Are you one in faith? Do you have one development story? Do you have similar national rites and traditions? Do you have the same values ​​of life? Do you have the same views on good and evil? Do you have the same lines of current economic development? Do you have the same views on the future international arrangement of the world community?

      Well, what do you have in common in order to support the low-lying, closed by blinkers of orthodox Islam, the creeps of unbalanced ayatollahs ???????
  7. Octavian avgust
    Octavian avgust 3 December 2012 21: 10
    0
    Yes, Iran’s nuclear weapons, like the Holocaust, are bloated.
  8. Magadan
    Magadan 4 December 2012 01: 30
    +1
    Quote: Verde
    These peaceful dudes in pink underpants bother me less than the gallows for people who just want to love each other in f * c

    Well, I prefer the gallows for these "peaceful lovers of w * n" to see.
    All countries that have chosen a course on tolerance towards homosexuals are doomed. Although you are an atheist along the way, I’ll say that twice God destroyed people physically massively - this is the Flood and this is Sodom and Gomorrah. And both times for homosexuality.
    Israel ought to remember this