Military Review

Dagestanis want to serve

184
The country is multinational, multi-religious. There are enough problems in any region, and, as the classic said, the unhappy are not happy in their own way ... While some people enthusiastically appeal for the indispensable transition to the contractual basis of the Russian army with the hope that most often involves personal unwillingness to fulfill their constitutional duty in terms of army service; others by all means advocate an increase in draft quotas for those regions in which they themselves live.

Dagestanis want to serve


The appeal of 11 parliamentarians from the Republic of Dagestan, among whom was State Duma deputy Gadzhimet Safaraliev, made a lot of noise to the Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu with a request to increase the draft quotas to increase the ability of Dagestan young people to serve in the army. The fact is that today no more than two hundred representatives of Dagestan are called up to the Russian army for the fall or spring campaign. In particular, the current autumn draft was designed to recruit Dagestanis (young representatives of various nationalities living in this North Caucasian republic) into the ranks of 179 RA. For some, this number seemed to be more than sufficient, based on the disciplinary peculiarities of Dagestan youth, to others it seems that 179 people are completely unacceptable, which does not make up 1% of the number of people willing to serve Dagestanis from 18 to 27 years.

Dagestani deputies offered the Minister of Defense to increase the quota for Dagestan to 4 thousand people during the spring draft of the next year. And, according to some sources, Sergei Shoigu is ready to meet the needs of the Dagestan deputies and, accordingly, Dagestan youth who wish to serve in the Russian army.

This kind of message causes rather contradictory emotions. Why? Because the multiple reduction of the quota for the call of the Dagestanis to the ranks of the Russian army was due to the extremely low level of discipline of representatives of various nationalities who were drafted from Dagestan and other republics of the North Caucasus. For some time, the conflict litter, as is often the case, tried not to endure from the hut, but over time the problem only increased in new and new volumes, and broke through to the outside by itself. For how long Dagestani military personnel serving on conscription, from the norms of statutory relations, have been talking about, have been talked about for many years. And sometimes it came down to very unfavorable cases, when even the smallest group of soldiers called up from the same Dagestan to the military part of Russia's central zone (the Urals, Siberia, the Far East or any other region) could build a system of relations in such a way that all the rest servicemen fell into a certain kind of dependence on the "Dagestan rules of the game." At the same time, the dependence could concern not only conscript soldiers representing other nationalities, but also officers of the military unit. At best, they tried to look at the problem through their fingers, and at worst, there was some kind of fear before the will of the Dagestanis, before their solidarity and the indispensable desire to defend their positions.
In the end, the Ministry of Defense had to sign its helplessness about establishing authorized contact with Dagestan soldiers serving in conscription, and a very ambiguous decision was made to reduce the quota for Dagestan from 10-20 thousands of draftees per year to a couple of hundred ( ten times less than quotas that existed before 2010 year).

Someone saw this as a real panacea: they say, there are no Dagestanis - no problem. But in fact, the problem was simply transferred to a different direction, which, whether they wanted to go to the Ministry of Defense or not, provided food for thought on the topic of unity of the legal field of the Russian Federation. Indeed, the law spelled out in black and white the constitutional obligation of military service under conscription for all males between the ages from 18 to 27 years who have no medical contraindications or have not expressed a desire to do alternative civilian service. The law says nothing about the fact that the military department can conduct a kind of “competitive” selection based on nationality. The quota restriction here does not fit not only with the law, but also with the very state of affairs in the Russian army. After all, today problems with the implementation of draft standards are observed in many regions of Russia, and where young people openly express a desire to go to the conscription service, all of a sudden, restrictions or a total ban are imposed.
Opponents of the recruitment of Caucasians in the Russian army can say: why recruit into the army those who undermine discipline in it, often not only remembering the fighting brotherhood, but also frankly promoting their chosen ones. Words are to some extent reasonable, but there is another opinion on this.

Says lieutenant colonel of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs M.Fyodorov:

The problem with conscripts from the Caucasus existed in Soviet times, not only in the Ministry of Defense, but also in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. At the end of 80, I had to serve as a platoon leader in one of the units in the Far East. The total number of fighters under my command in the first year of my “commanding” 24 man, two of which were Avars, and the rest were Russians and Ukrainians. So, I tell you, it was with these two Dagestanis that at first I had to sip in full.

It began with the fact that one of them stubbornly refused to participate in cleaning the barracks and take a cloth to clean the floor. Initially, I tried to put pressure on him with the provisions of the charter, but it did not bring its fruits. I had to work first in conjunction with the company commander, then the battalion. The reaction close to zero - “I won’t mess around in the dirt, I’m not a pig” - and that's it ... Seeing this, and the second one began to swing. Frankly, after such disobedience on the part of the two, I'm sorry, suckers, everything boiled in me. Now I understand that maybe he was wrong, maybe he got excited, but then he decided to just show who the master is in the platoon. In general, I summoned two to myself and, I will try to express myself decently, broke the faces of both with words that intelligibly explain that everyone has to clean up their own shit, and that the nannies are not here, but the pigs just do not clean anything. In general, some kind of applied psychology came out ... My other fighters heard everything perfectly. After that, the squad commander approached the Avars, handed them rags, they took ... They cleaned the floor, looked frowningly, but there was no more talk "pig - not pig". To be honest, the first time at night, in their corner of the barracks, slept badly - I was afraid to feel the knife in my back ... But then they even somehow got closer, got used to it.

When he took the post of battalion commander (this was after the collapse of the USSR), Dagestanis had to be dealt with more than once, and from the experience of each new call I was convinced that most of them were volitional, uncompromising, wayward, and the language was well understood and assimilated. But you need to be able to talk with them. But cohesion so we ourselves should learn from them ... They will never give their offense ...


It turns out that here it is necessary to exercise the so-called individual approach. To say that it is necessary to completely abandon the call of Chechens and Dagestanis, ostensibly because they all may turn into future fighters of gangs - this is only an excuse that the commanders in the field often do not want to solve the problem with discipline. Naturally, all officers would like to see in front of them only positive, educated, trained and certainly executive disciplined fighters. But so where are these to take ... Army, because it is also an educational system. And tolerance, it must be admitted, is clearly not a winning option. Breeding communities, national groups in a single military unit - this is the main way to reduce efficiency, to netavschine and other negative points.

One can argue for a long time that Caucasians should not be called for at all, as they try to live according to their own laws. But it is almost the same, as if the Ministry of Education and Science suggested that they not take to school those whose older brothers behaved badly in the Marivanna class. But here another question arises: if the teacher does not have the ability to calm the mischievous, then maybe it's not the mischievous, but the Marivanne itself ... After all, “paper pedagogy” is one thing, but real practice is quite another. In the army, such problems are no less acute, and therefore it is obvious complacency and an attempt to disguise one’s own lack of professionalism to write off everything solely on someone’s lack of discipline and the impossibility of correcting such behavior.

If many people admit that the whole thing is in the Caucasian mentality, then it means that it is necessary to prepare the officers accordingly to work with the same Dagestanis. In the end, it would be possible to develop a conscription system, under which the Dagestan guys could well maintain security at the proper level in their own republic. After all, if everyone here is eager to be in law enforcement agencies or units of the Emergencies Ministry after the army service (as the Dagestani deputies who turned to Shoigu say), then why not give the draftees such an opportunity initially. After all, Dagestan itself is far from the safest subject of the Russian Federation, and the additional units of local military conscripts clearly do not interfere with the republic. As they say, both safety will increase and the desire to “go to the forest” will decrease.

In general, the decision to increase the quota for Dagestan in terms of conscripts ultimately rests with the Ministry of Defense, but only with this the main military department should not follow the path “Caucasians are to blame for everything” in the event of problems. The training system for officers should be built today, including through the use of tools in working with different groups of the population. After all, we have no other (better) army by definition, but it is quite possible to make it as such (more effective and efficient) without national differentiations.
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  1. MilaPhone
    MilaPhone 30 November 2012 08: 13
    +7
    Dagestanis want to serve

    Perhaps these are those who need a "real" military man for a career in government agencies.
    1. Blackscorp
      Blackscorp 30 November 2012 08: 30
      +12
      To the author plus ..... the article fully reflects my vision of this problem .... yesterday there was a very stormy discussion of this topic on the forum ....
      1. beech
        beech 30 November 2012 18: 32
        +7
        there are many parts in Russia, a couple in each part and know-how. It would be better if the rulers didn’t discuss this garbage, but planted for life all the thieves who stole the thieves from the defense service along with Serdyukov !!!!
        Ato dangled billions, and she’s got a house arrest, hey, she’ll still pay off and leave for the Canaries to have a rest, spend the money hanging down !!!
        1. baloo3000
          baloo3000 30 November 2012 19: 37
          +1
          In a couple - a lot, better one by one
    2. Rustam
      Rustam 30 November 2012 09: 49
      +16
      I will say a few words
      1-problemma is that it is impossible to collect more than 3 people in one place, immediately get stuck in a pile and begin their dictatorship
      2-a lot depends on the commanders - for any jamb immediately to the dysbat, this is sobering to many
      3-one more fact that the problem since the mid-90s was heavily launched at the time when I served in the Far East Far East there were no dugs in our unit (there were other representatives of the Yakuts and so on) but I know that they were in general waiting, they even called the black battalions there was definitely a mess of the officers themselves undressed and put on shoes, I want to ask a question why they recruited then

      the way out, as I see it, is to type but scatter in parts for any fault of the lip or to the disc’s battalion, that’s what I see the way out of and if we type more than 5 again on the Internet we will see a line of soldiers and inscriptions like Caucasus power, Dagestan, etc.
      although there are guys who are already in the officer ranks and military and military under the contract and to serve better than others, they just call the young, the blood burns and they want to show their superiority (this should be a tough reaction, give the slack and the service seem unbearable) am
      1. baron.nn
        baron.nn 30 November 2012 10: 56
        +7
        Rustam:
        Of course you need to take them into the army, but keep them in tight rein! We don’t have a lot of people to go karting in the army ...
        1. beech
          beech 30 November 2012 15: 27
          +4
          send them to Japan, they will immediately explain to whom the Kuril Islands belong)))
          1. qube4
            qube4 30 November 2012 18: 28
            +4
            Vryatli, will be sold on the 3rd day ...
      2. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 30 November 2012 15: 01
        +9
        I read the opinion of a military psychologist who conducted a psychological study of Soviet times about Caucasians, in particular Georgians.
        Here is its result: if there are 1 Georgians in a platoon or company, then this is usually an excellent warrior; if there are 2 Caucasians in the unit, then these are the most undisciplined and wayward soldiers; if 3 or more, then they form a community of Caucasians who, by virtue of their earlier physical sexual adulthood compared with Slavic men, create an almost criminal group holding all soldiers of the unit, and in some cases, attracting their countrymen from other units, all soldiers of the military parts in fear and fear.
        After reviewing these data from a psychologist, I remembered my young years as a biennial officer, and indeed it is. Our Russian guys are soldiers, like spread fingers, which are several hundred in part, and they cannot stand up for themselves against 5-10 Caucasians.
        Maybe this still comes from the fact that Russian guys are being called up to part from different regions and they cannot find friendly contact, but Caucasians from one region, where they are all countrymen regardless of nationality.
        For any reason, this problem exists, and it must be solved by not allowing these guys to be called up in one group, and even more so in one unit.
        1. bart74
          bart74 2 December 2012 03: 46
          +1
          Yes, it seems to me that the problem is not in the infantility of the Russians, but in the difference in later maturation and a culture of greater tolerance. Well, it also depends on the officers. In our platoon, when we were in training, the platoon Sapanyuk gathered us Russian guys and simply explained how we should respond. We had two Russian departments, a Bashkir department, and a Dag detachment. Nothing, we figured it out. There was not even Mochilov. They just fought back in words.
      3. Alekseev
        Alekseev 2 December 2012 15: 45
        +1
        Quote: Rustam

        2-a lot depends on the commanders - for any jamb immediately to the dysbat, this is sobering to many

        As if the commanders are against!
        Much, of course, depends on the commanders, but such bosses as the stools have reduced the disputes, the bullpen, the guardhouse. And the officer will crush some nits in an unregistered order, so the prosecutor’s office and the case will be sewn to you.
        There is no political will to restore order in the armed forces.
    3. Starksa
      Starksa 30 November 2012 10: 38
      +10
      By the way, this news immediately appeared after it was forbidden to go to public service if you did not serve
      1. MilaPhone
        MilaPhone 30 November 2012 11: 32
        +2
        So I immediately said this.
    4. DmitryDmitry
      DmitryDmitry 30 November 2012 12: 40
      +3
      Just want to serve in the state. structures, even in the army begin to serve normally.
    5. Mairos
      Mairos 30 November 2012 14: 28
      +1
      Yes, they love to control everyone and rule - do not feed them with bread. And so conceit is higher than the mountains, and when the "crusts" in your pocket - in general
      1. saper
        saper 30 November 2012 21: 44
        +2
        reminds us very much of Russian! because we also adore crusts
    6. beech
      beech 30 November 2012 15: 19
      0
      perhaps the way out of this situation lies in the fact that it’s worth recruiting a couple more battalions of the East type?
    7. saper
      saper 30 November 2012 21: 40
      +4
      which government agencies? prosecutors nightmares? most of them are country guys!
      for whom military service is a chance to look at the country!
      and service is a matter of prestige! I say so weightily because I lived in the same village with the Kumyks (these are the Dagestan people)
      PS Russian-Dagestanis do not differ in mentality from the rest of Dagestanis (the same calls in the spirit of "I will not wash the floor")
  2. mar.tira
    mar.tira 30 November 2012 08: 42
    +12
    Well, why do we need to train passive militants before the Caucasus is conquered? Our army is already reduced to impossible!
    1. baron.nn
      baron.nn 30 November 2012 10: 59
      +1
      mar.tira:
      Do you feel like militants right away? Why not recruit them to the Ministry of Internal Affairs or other units at the end of military service? There are many problem areas throughout Russia where they could serve for the good of Russia! Potential offenders at the mere mention of such as "wild brigade" will refrain from provocations and violations! It is important for us to release them from the "turnover", then everything will be fine.
      1. Mairos
        Mairos 30 November 2012 14: 32
        +12
        baron, they have a diaspora-clan thinking, the majority. They will serve (and serve) for the benefit of themselves, their relatives and fellow countrymen. To many of them Russia and all "strangers" to one place.
    2. not good
      not good 30 November 2012 12: 09
      +6
      But there are no Russians and Ukrainians among the militants? There is a question of upbringing, and this is ideology already lame. There is no faith in the state, and this is worse.
    3. baton140105
      baton140105 30 November 2012 16: 43
      +2
      What are you going to conquer? The Caucasus has long been part of Russia ...
    4. Farik
      Farik 2 December 2012 12: 31
      +1
      Well, you are bent !!!
  3. akjn4
    akjn4 30 November 2012 08: 59
    +12
    They want to serve, let them serve. One dag per military unit. Not more.
    1. FAXI
      FAXI 30 November 2012 17: 20
      +7
      I had about a third of the Dagistanis in the unit and there were no problems. It all depends on the fathers of the commanders and on yourself.
  4. webdog
    webdog 30 November 2012 09: 10
    +21
    I agree with the author that the forces of the Dagestanis themselves should strengthen the southern borders. Let them fight with the Wahhabis and other evil spirits.
    If someone goes to the mountains, then his friends will hunt him ...
    there is a war there and it needs trained personnel. not thought up even better training than real hostilities.
    there will be a combat-ready group that can be sent to any hot spot, where the refusal to perform the operation is execution ...
    in war, the more dangerous, the less any tolerance and democracy.
    Let there and demonstrate their character and earn status for the state ..
    and here, the command of these units should be for the Russian ambitors to get used to and respect them.
    only for this purpose it is necessary to send not officers-slobbers, but real, patriots, with character and training. Dagestanis will obey and respect only those who are stronger than them morally ...
    who does not obey - the howbahn. I didn't understand - to go home to my parents with a "wolf" ticket.
    there is nothing complicated. everything has long been invented in the USSR.
    I think so.
    1. baron.nn
      baron.nn 30 November 2012 11: 01
      +2
      webdog:
      And the problem with a shortage of contractors can be partially solved at the expense of them!
      1. Hon
        Hon 30 November 2012 11: 31
        +10
        It was they who started having problems with the contract soldiers, in parts where the Caucasians began to grab a significant number of contract workers by zvizdyule and organized by the entire diaspora with the departure to rest in the medical unit.
  5. Igor
    Igor 30 November 2012 09: 21
    -5
    Let them serve.
    1. Klibanophoros
      Klibanophoros 30 November 2012 11: 16
      +9
      Only on condition that the supporters (both in general uniforms and civilians) of their draft in the army will themselves build and educate, train and live with them in the same barracks.
      1. saper
        saper 30 November 2012 21: 53
        +1
        I served in the same company where 90% of the Russians, so, socks (!), a soap dish and shaving foam were stolen from me (I forgot them in the bath)
        then they moved to a company where 90% were Avars (guess who the commander was)) there several times forgot their soap and soap in the bathhouse and NOTHING!
        1. antiaircrafter
          antiaircrafter 2 December 2012 15: 42
          -1
          Quote: saper
          I served in the same company

          this is where for each company a separate bathhouse?
          1. saper
            saper 2 December 2012 19: 19
            0
            in Dagestan, in the LDPE.
    2. Farik
      Farik 2 December 2012 12: 30
      +1
      Quote: Igorek
      Let them serve.

      Did you serve yourself?
  6. erix-xnumx
    erix-xnumx 30 November 2012 09: 30
    +11
    As long as the commander has no real levers of influence on violators of discipline, there can be no talk of any order. For, as they say in the army, you cannot bring a soft member of a firm statutory order. Well, a separate topic is slobbery and cowardice of the bulk of Russian conscripts.
    1. mar.tira
      mar.tira 30 November 2012 09: 39
      +9
      Ever since tsarist times, when we annexed the Caucasus, we had problems with soldiers from these places. Rebellions, theft, desertion flourished even then. Separate so-called "Wild divisions" and mountain units were created to defend the borders. There is little sense, they slaughtered the Russians and went into the mountains. How many wolves do not feed them all the same looks into the forest! Do not take this for nationalism! There is historical literature!
      1. General_Nogay
        General_Nogay 30 November 2012 10: 42
        -3
        There was nothing then to join the Caucasus! You look and there would be no problems with Caucasians))))
        1. erix-xnumx
          erix-xnumx 30 November 2012 13: 30
          +1
          Problems would still be. Not just that Russia undertook to annex the Caucasus.
          1. General_Nogay
            General_Nogay 30 November 2012 17: 23
            -6
            Of course not just like that! For Chechen with Dagestan oil! For the control of the silk road! For the purpose of economic benefit! And don’t be like we carried civilization and stuff !!! And then do not differ from America !!!
      2. Lakkuchu
        Lakkuchu 30 November 2012 19: 29
        +3
        Quote: mar.tira
        Ever since tsarist times, when we annexed the Caucasus, we had problems with soldiers from these places. Rebellions, theft, desertion flourished even then. Separate so-called "Wild divisions" and mountain units were created to defend the borders. There is little sense, they slaughtered the Russians and went into the mountains. How many wolves do not feed them all the same looks into the forest! Do not take this for nationalism! There is historical literature!

        Don't make a noise. The indigenous inhabitants of the Caucasus and Central Asia, according to the legislation of the Russian Empire, were not subject to conscription. Served exclusively by volunteers. One of the most famous units is the Caucasian Native Cavalry Division (the famous "Wild Division"). About 3500 riders of this division were awarded the St. George Crosses and St. George medals "For Bravery". “They were called“ wild ”because they were wearing terrible shaggy hats, because they tie their hoods on their heads like turbans, and because many of them are abreks, fellow countrymen of the famous Zelimkhan,” writes Ilya Tolstoy, the son of a writer, a war journalist in World War I. “I lived for a month in a hut in the center of the“ wild regiments ”, they showed me people in the Caucasus who were famous for having killed several people out of revenge, and what did I see? I saw these murderers nursing and feeding the remnants of the kebab of other people's children, I saw how the shelves were removed from their parking lots and how the residents regretted their departure, thanked them for not only paying, but also helping with their alms, I saw them carrying out the most difficult and complex military missions, I saw them in battles, disciplined, insanely brave and unshakable. ” Former officer of the Kabarda Horse Regiment, a lawyer by training, Alexey Arsenyev in the essay "Caucasian Native Equestrian Division" he wrote:
        "... And - a strange thing! Put by fate in the need to submit to Russia and get to know Her, the people and peoples who had hitherto been its enemies - ceased to be them! Most of the natives of the glorious" Wild Division "were either grandchildren, or even sons of former enemies of Russia. They went to war after Her, of their own free will, being compelled by no one and nothing; in the history of the "Wild Division" - there is not a single case even of sole desertion!"

        “It was always possible to rely more faithfully on Muslims than on the Christian peoples who joined the Russian Kingdom. It is they, the Muslims, who would be a reliable pillar of power and the throne. The revolutionary hard times gave a lot of vivid evidence that the Caucasian highlanders were faithful to the oath, a sense of duty and military honor and valor ... ", - echoes him Breshko-Breshkovsky. Here it is true, described by contemporaries of those events.
        1. bart74
          bart74 2 December 2012 03: 50
          0
          I agree with you. And where does only youth have so much garbage in their heads that they don’t know their history.
          1. Farik
            Farik 2 December 2012 12: 29
            +2
            Quote: bart74
            And where does only youth have so much garbage in their heads that they don’t know their history.

            And you read school history books.
    2. Hon
      Hon 30 November 2012 10: 25
      +9
      The only method of discipline that our commanders know is an old man with his hands on the face, the problem with the Caucasians is that they don’t give their offense, the old Caucasian man will never start digging a young Caucasian, and our people will be drenched. Before Caucasians officers often show slobbery and cowardice.
      Quote: erix-06
      the bulk of Russian conscripts.

      Why only Russians serve Tatars, Kalmyks, Chuvash, Yakuts and all have problems with Caucasians.
      1. Dr. Pilyulkin
        Dr. Pilyulkin 30 November 2012 10: 45
        +10
        The cause of the mess is impunity. Here is my son when he is rude and you do not punish him, he begins to be rude even more. Do you think it’s somehow different here? Therefore, I punish him for all wrongdoing. Differently. But I do not leave any fault without attention. As a result, we have a great relationship and he obeys me implicitly. smile
        1. Hon
          Hon 30 November 2012 11: 36
          +2
          The problem is that you will punish these hell if your relatives are to smear the unit commander, and they write carts to especially important officers to the prosecutor’s office for allegedly irregular relations. The prosecutor's office is pleased to try to plant such officers. But the problems now begin in the Caucasians themselves, because of the contractors, who have found a simple way to deal with their outrageous boot in the face.
          1. Dr. Pilyulkin
            Dr. Pilyulkin 30 November 2012 13: 32
            +7
            How can you not punish? You understand, these are 18-year-old boys. Clueless. They still have to educate and educate. I assure you, the antics that an 18-year-old Dagestani (or a Kabardian, or a Russian, or a Belarusian - it does not matter) can afford to himself is unlikely to be performed by a 40-year-old Dagestan. And not because he was "born in the USSR", but because he is 40 years old. He's smarter and has gone mad. I don't know a single 18-year-old Dagestani, but I do know many 40-year-olds. All are calm and very decent people. The family speaks almost in whispers. They will never raise their voices against each other. That's it.
            But the glove box in parts where I can’t find the governing body on them worthless and cowardly commanders. The commander has authority and power — there will always be order.
            1. Hon
              Hon 30 November 2012 14: 00
              +3
              They are drafted at 18 and not at forty, and the officers are simply not able to cope with the dugs if there are a lot of them, especially since they begin to write statements about the officers who are trying to fight, there have already been precedents for the landing of such officers.
              1. Dr. Pilyulkin
                Dr. Pilyulkin 30 November 2012 16: 14
                0
                Quote: Hon
                officers are simply not able to cope with the dugs if there are a lot of them

                1. How much is a lot?
                2. For failure to comply with the Charter plant. For disobedience - to plant. For systematic violations of discipline - plant. Failure to comply with the Charter + disobedience in the army + systematic violations of discipline = undermining combat effectiveness. Undermining combat capability is a serious crime. In Soviet times, they shot for it. And it’s better not just to plant, but to cut down the forest in Siberia. Maybe the extra arrogance will come out.
                3. If adult men cannot cope with a bunch of uncontrollable punks (regardless of nationality), drive such officers out of the army. How are they going to defend their homeland?
                1. stranik72
                  stranik72 30 November 2012 19: 07
                  +4
                  You are a dreamer, in a country where there is a problem with law and rights, these mountain ones get bundled in jackals, the money for which Russia belongs to the pack, to bribe, to intimidate kill, here are their methods and most importantly the methods work, so the right decision was not to take them to Army. Look at the census statistics in Dagestan at the end of the 80s and now (if you find) in one of the programs the figure sounded that the number of Russians there has decreased by 90% !!, this is how you need to love the hospital and the rest of your people and your country, to allow such an outrage that Chechnya has not taught anyone anything. I personally would be opposed if in the part where my relative is serving, or these son will come, and I will do everything so that they would not serve. Since the state is not able to bring them back to normal, I’m not going to risk my own. Your right to do otherwise.
                  1. Dr. Pilyulkin
                    Dr. Pilyulkin 30 November 2012 19: 51
                    +2
                    I am not a dreamer. I just think that it’s enough to whine about the fact that Dagestanis offend someone there. It's time to learn how to give back, if so. Enough talk. There is a problem, it is necessary to solve, and not hide your head in the sand. What do you suggest, I did not understand.
                    1. stranik72
                      stranik72 30 November 2012 22: 17
                      +2
                      I said that I would do it personally and expressed my attitude to the situation, everything you say about everything looks like moralizing, which can hardly be considered an offer, but about whining, well, if you are a person of business and actions, offer some creative idea behind which a decision, and so everyone is happy to think of themselves as strategists.
                      1. ramzes1776
                        ramzes1776 30 November 2012 22: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: stranik72
                        and so everyone is imagining himself a strategist

                        Computer "hamsters" are all brave sitting at home at the "keyboard" laughingWe saw the army only from pictures, but we saw it on the Zvezda channel !!!
                    2. ramzes1776
                      ramzes1776 30 November 2012 22: 46
                      +1
                      Quote: Dr. Pillkin
                      It's time to learn how to fight back

                      Change is not a question. Without problems. Only when the crowd goes to you, and none of yours subscribes for you. That's the problem !!!
                2. ramzes1776
                  ramzes1776 30 November 2012 20: 03
                  +2
                  Quote: Dr. Pillkin
                  2. For failure to comply with the Charter plant. For disobedience - to plant. For systematic violations of discipline - plant. Failure to comply with the Charter + disobedience in the army + systematic violations of discipline = undermining combat effectiveness. Undermining combat capability is a serious crime. In Soviet times, they shot for it. And it’s better not just to plant, but to cut down the forest in Siberia. Maybe the extra arrogance will come out.
                  3. If adult men cannot cope with a bunch of uncontrollable punks (regardless of nationality), drive such officers out of the army. How are they going to defend their homeland?

                  The fact of the matter is that we have justice on their side. If it were, as you say, order would have come a long time ago. .If gave the prosecutor's command "Fas" everything would be smooth.
                  A tricky question: "Why don't the Daghs behave like that in the" disbaths ", although there used to be a lot of them there mainly for" extortion "of convicts, and not for" non-statutory "?
                  1. Dr. Pilyulkin
                    Dr. Pilyulkin 30 November 2012 20: 28
                    +2
                    I agree with you. Remove restrictions on the conscription of Dagestanis into the army and tell who needs to "face".
                3. Mairos
                  Mairos 30 November 2012 23: 00
                  +4
                  Try to plant it)) Many big bosses will send "Roly-platoon", who will insist on this. He was like that in his own skin - they said "Bring up, Comrade Senior Lieutenant"
                4. bart74
                  bart74 2 December 2012 03: 55
                  0
                  Well, in such linear positions, too, are not bearded. How old are lieutenants and captains? Here it is necessary to take higher. Who is the commander of the unit. If it’s haunted, then there will be chaos. And do not say that the commander is far away, at headquarters. And now there are no ensigns left. As far as I know, the foremen served mainly harsh Ukrainian men under forty. I still remember Shavarsky. Didn’t let anyone down!
                5. Alekseev
                  Alekseev 2 December 2012 15: 54
                  +1
                  How to cope, you are our theorist?
                  There are no legal powers. And the little gangsters know this very well.
                  Both literacy and knowledge of Russian are shown when it is necessary to concoct a statement to the prosecutor's office.
                  You yourself, an adult music? Or who?
                  How are you with
                  Quote: Dr. Pillkin
                  a bunch of uncontrollable punks (regardless of nationality)

                  would you cope?
                  Probably on the street you run around the "bunch of uncontrollable punks" by the third road, you are our dear advisor.
            2. ramzes1776
              ramzes1776 30 November 2012 19: 55
              +2
              Quote: Dr. Pillkin
              The commander has authority and power — there will always be order.

              If he alone has authority and power, then he alone will not do anything. Yes, they will reckon with him and personally obey him, but what about the platoon officers, 23-year-old lieutenants, who themselves are still "green"?
              1. Dr. Pilyulkin
                Dr. Pilyulkin 30 November 2012 20: 31
                0
                So I ask: who and the fig in the army needs a commander who can’t put things in order?
                1. Alekseev
                  Alekseev 2 December 2012 16: 03
                  +1
                  DOES NOT REACH ...
                  There is no political will to restore order, according to x ... order and military discipline. And it’s not a van-platoon, which even very fuligans can at the time send ... or even pi .... th, yes, unfortunately, it happens request , and not to the commander of the unit, which is legally responsible for everything. Take the young man above ..
            3. Farik
              Farik 2 December 2012 12: 27
              +2
              He talked once with a 45-year-old Dagestan, He came to us in part for his son because of a criminal case instituted against him for extortion. A normal, healthy man, but when the conversation turned to the topic of mopping in the barracks, etc. categorically said that a man should not do this.
          2. ramzes1776
            ramzes1776 30 November 2012 19: 50
            +3
            Quote: Hon
            But the problems now begin in the Caucasians themselves, because of the contractors, who have found a simple way to deal with their outrageous boot in the face.

            All of the contract servicemen in combat units survived back in 2009-2010. And I agree about greasing by relatives and not only. We even have a Dagestan diaspora in Transbaikalia. I have seen many times how a Dagestan foreman on "Kruzaks" drove up to the commander. VSOshniki "for happiness" to plant an officer, they are not interested in the soldier.
          3. Maximars
            Maximars 1 December 2012 11: 29
            +2
            An example of punishing a dag after a time limit (a story from life). The company commander, a Dagestani Kap.Ah ... bekov came to Makhachkala on vacation. We met friends and a new acquaintance (dag), who served as a conscript in Tula and said like: “Everyone walked under me, both soldiers and officers.” It just so happened that a friend of the graduation cap.Ah ... Bekov is the commander of patr. companies in the Tula military unit. A call to a friend on the speakerphone in front of everyone and a wonderful story about an ohh ... of this soldier. It turned out that his head was shoved in the ass for merits.
            My company company also practiced over a negligent dag. A head in a point and a snapshot as a keepsake at home. Explicit blackmail, but valid. soldier
        2. YuDDP
          YuDDP 30 November 2012 23: 14
          -2
          I wouldn’t kill later, God forbid, or would not break internally ...
      2. Maks111
        Maks111 30 November 2012 17: 14
        +3
        As for the Yakuts, my friend (Yakut) always brags about how they kept 20 Yakuts all the (Russian) part. part of a small person 100. But fact is fact. While the Russians are weak-minded they will be spoiled by the head of all and sundry. Russians in the army have problems, as we see, not only with Caucasians.
        1. ramzes1776
          ramzes1776 30 November 2012 20: 05
          +2
          I can also say about Tatars and Buryats and Tuvans, when more than 10 of them gather in one company !!!
    3. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 30 November 2012 19: 42
      +2
      I agree one hundred percent. How can the commander affect them, even if there is a problem on the lip, and the lip is not about anything now. And send an officer to the zone, if he even touches a finger. We gave one major 3 years. And our fighters are physically inferior to their peers from Dagestan. There are individuals from the Russian, but they again keep apart, like “my house is on the edge.” What is interesting only pressed Russians. They beat Tuvinians by the side. Therefore, they get the trendyuli and put them on the grandmother polls, because everyone is for himself. I would not want my son to serve with these comrades. My dad served as a conscript in the early 60s in Kazakhstan. He says that they were lucky they got 20 fellow countrymen in one part, where there were many Caucasians .So and held on to each other throughout the service and for that all respected !!!
  7. Konstantm
    Konstantm 30 November 2012 09: 32
    +1
    Create a "Wild Division" as under the tsar-father. And everyone will be happy.
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 30 November 2012 14: 06
      +2
      yeah and give them Mosin rifles sad
      what if a Wahhabist conducts a masterclass in this division and she leaves the submission
      [center] [/ center]
      I think in our realities this is unrealistic
  8. Enjoy
    Enjoy 30 November 2012 09: 39
    +8
    Just let them serve with their own kind and sort out relationships with themselves. We have different cultures of communication with others. And one should not experiment with Russian guys for the benefit of tolerance.

    When they brought a native mountaineer to us, they cut their hair for the first time and told us to remove their hair after themselves, he kicked them under the pier glass with his feet, saying that "our man does not clean up." What we have in the end - you can't beat him - humanism, he does not obey anyone, including officers. Relatives arrived, began to put pressure on the sergeants, who could not force him to get out with everyone, threatened with reprisals after demobilization. At the same time, the commanders were oiled. In the end, the individual was planted for several months at the checkpoint, day after day in an outfit. I slept 4 hours a day. This is one for two companies, but what if there were a dozen of them? And what did he do with the young guys from the next draft after our demobilization?
    1. Dr. Pilyulkin
      Dr. Pilyulkin 30 November 2012 13: 45
      +6
      Could not cope with one Dagestan. What can I say, a disgrace to the commander. Relatives arrived - nightmare the whole part. Weapons weren’t taken away? Shame on such an army. Do not agree?
      1. ramzes1776
        ramzes1776 30 November 2012 20: 13
        0
        Quote: Dr. Pillkin
        Could not cope with one Dagestan. What can I say, a disgrace to the commander. Relatives arrived - nightmare the whole part. Weapons weren’t taken away? Shame on such an army. Do not agree?

        I agree. And you read here how Dagi broke the intelligence service and what court verdict later http://www.newsru.com/crime/30jan2009/dag20sturmspecnaz.html
        1. Dr. Pilyulkin
          Dr. Pilyulkin 30 November 2012 20: 35
          -1
          I will not watch. The nation that defeated fascism in the 45th complains that they are being mutated by the Dagestanis. It is just ridiculous and does not fit in the head.
  9. aksai61
    aksai61 30 November 2012 09: 47
    0
    Yes, they specially go to the army, even give a lot of money, so that later they can either get a civil service or simply dump them from Dagestan ... They told me that themselves ... We had 6 people in the division ... Yes, at first they were and showdowns and other misunderstandings ... BUT they knew where they were going and why, unlike many of us ... Let them serve ...
  10. andrey-tse
    andrey-tse 30 November 2012 09: 48
    +2
    You have to work with people, and there, of course, everyone around is gouging and stupid people. There is a percentage of the non-teaching, but it mainly depends on the leader. It’s very difficult to work with people, these are not robots that can be reprogrammed, you need to deal with them a lot so that the result is visible.
  11. evgenii67
    evgenii67 30 November 2012 09: 52
    0
    Create a "Wild Division" as under the Tsar-Father. And everyone will be happy. The main thing is that this "Wild Division" does not become independent and does not start acting against the Fed. troops
  12. NKVD
    NKVD 30 November 2012 10: 01
    +5
    But don’t call them at all. They make good bandits, but they’ve never been warriors. Something will run away, why keep cowards in pieces and even pigs that they cannot take away for themselves motivating with unclear religious dogmas. Let the sheep graze on the slopes Caucasian ridge. In Grozny, they constantly observed a picture of how brave highlanders hung with arms walk calmly and how the mess, they don’t have diarrhea and jaundice
    1. General_Nogay
      General_Nogay 30 November 2012 10: 50
      +2
      What are you talking about! Ask any Russian kid who served in the 393rd Motorized Rifle Regiment when they entered Tskhinvali who scared all the Georgians there. Correctly battalion "Vostok" Yamadaev (Hero of Russia by the way). And not only frightened them, but also exterminated them by the hundreds. Those who surrendered were not taken prisoner, they were shot after interrogations with the words: know, if any of you decides to surrender, they will do the same with you. I was told this by ordinary Russian soldiers when I was transferred to the 4th base, at the disposal of the same 393rd regiment! By the way, according to rumors before the war, the regiment was controlled by the Dag, and the most interesting thing is that during the war no one put a bullet in the back of their head, why?
      1. YuDDP
        YuDDP 30 November 2012 23: 27
        +1
        A little later planted:
        Suleiman (Sulim) Bekmirzaevich Yamadaev
        Date of birth - June 21, 1973
        Date of death - March 28, 2009 (35 years old)
  13. understudy
    understudy 30 November 2012 10: 04
    +6
    Quote: webdog
    should be strengthened by the forces of Dagestanis the southern borders

    Uh-huh. "Wonderful" thought. But where can you find the required number of officers of Dagestan origin?

    Quote: andrey-tse
    We need to work with people

    I would not be at all surprised if these words belong to an employee of the "ideological front" or to someone who has seen the personnel only in programs on military topics.
    For those who say "let them serve," I would like to wish the presence of at least a dozen such "willing" in the company. Well, Schaub to fully experience modern internationalism with elements of religious intoxication and the consequences of the liberalization of criminal legislation.
    1. Dr. Pilyulkin
      Dr. Pilyulkin 30 November 2012 16: 35
      -1
      Quote: Understudy
      But where to find the required number of officers of Dagestan origin?


      Remember the movie "Officers". Do you think that such Commanders as squadron commander Georgy Petrovich, Alexei Trofimov or Ivan Varavva would allow people from a distant mountain village to wipe their feet? I understand that these characters are fictional, but I am sure that such people were and are. Only before there were many more.
  14. IPMEN
    IPMEN 30 November 2012 10: 05
    +14
    ...... I served in ZABVO at one time ..... So, these Dagestanis, in principle, are very impudent, ambitious, but also responsible guys by nature ..... If there are only one in the unit either (or) two, you can still control and convince them, and if it’s more, it’s much harder ..... I had one Dagestan (Nogai) in my intelligence. So, this guy was engaged before the call martial arts and of course he was even afraid of a demobilization, or rather grandfathers ...... He understood this and give his rights to swing while still being a spirit ...... Then they appoint me to the position of a company ... Frankly, it’s difficult was with him ....... Up to the point that in the presence of all the personnel it was necessary to put him in the ring and prove it as part of a lesson in physical. preparing your superiority ...... Of course this is not an option ....... but at that moment and the dashing 90s there was no other option ...... Either I am in the position or he .....
    ...... But the main thing is not this, but the fact that over time we found a common language ........ After a year of service, I appointed him deputy commander of the platoon ....... Discipline was, if not ideal, then at least relatively normal ....... Maybe they won’t believe me on the forum, but there weren’t people like SOCH ..... in the company ...... Something like this ....
    1. bask
      bask 30 November 2012 10: 28
      +6
      Dagestanis This is a plurality of nations and nationalities. In our unit, they said so. If he is a Dagestan to you and ,, friend and brother ,,, Two yes ..... and so and so ,,, Three already ,, BAND ,,, It is necessary to create a “wild” division from representatives of the peoples of the S. Caucasus .. And sergeants to set Chechens. Then there will be ....
      1. ramzes1776
        ramzes1776 30 November 2012 20: 21
        +1
        Quote: bask
        It is necessary to create a “wild” division from the representatives of the peoples of the S. Caucasus.

        And who will rule this division? And to whom will it obey? And when the colonels will come to the unit and the generals will fraternize with them and turn to you. Somehow you tried to make the Chechen sportrotu and what comes of it, I don’t remember? that they generally ceased to obey anyone.
      2. roninas
        roninas 30 November 2012 22: 15
        0
        Ha ha, for sure! smile
    2. General_Nogay
      General_Nogay 30 November 2012 11: 09
      +3
      At first it seemed strange that Nogayts had been taken into reconnaissance, then he realized that it was during the USSR, or the dashing 90s. When I was called up for service, I ended up in the North Caucasian Military District (too bloody military district), and so the starling from the reconnaissance comes up and those who wish and the athletes fail. I go out, with me 4 more dag and only 1 Russian, the rest prayed that they would not be taken. Does he fit and immediately nationality? I speak Russian) He came from, I come from Russia. And he’s right in color, guys, let's be more serious, if non-Russians, then to you in the infantry! That's it. But I nevertheless initially got to the place where I had dreamed since childhood, to follow in the footsteps of my father - to the ARTILLERY-GOD OF WAR !!! And I knew in advance that they wouldn’t take it in advance, but I wanted to check the truth, or there isn’t that they take only the Slavs !!!! And by the way, for the entire service of a real officer, ready to give his life to the matter, I saw only one professional with a capital letter! He was my division commander Lt. Col. Tudin! A real Russian hero, more than 2 meters tall, strong, strong-willed, intelligent man! By the way, when the war began in 888, the unit commander temporarily transferred his duties to our division commander, then !!!!
      1. Hon
        Hon 30 November 2012 11: 39
        0
        sometimes it gets into reconnaissance when called upon not from the Caucasian regions
        1. General_Nogay
          General_Nogay 30 November 2012 16: 55
          +5
          Although I didn’t, it wasn’t haughty, but I was not called from the Caucasus republics, but they still didn’t take me into intelligence !!! And they sent to serve in the Caucasus at will, because at the word Caucasus, the Russian desire to serve fell away, they had to recruit volunteers !!! Because when you said here you are 60 people. you’ll go to the Caucasus, calls have come to the rescue, dad let my mom send me the wrong current anywhere !!!
          Too uncle, the Tolerasts were carried away by the war in Chechnya, or rather money laundering during the war in Chechnya, that with the word Caucasus everyone thinks that there are all bearded uncles with machine guns and martyr’s belts !!!
          A boy comes up to me on the train and says, but the truth is that in the Caucasus there is now a civil war in its entirety (2008). I already oh .... from this! And do not be surprised at all stupid comments !!! Who served in the army - he does not laugh at the circus!
          1. Hon
            Hon 2 December 2012 19: 25
            0
            This was a typo, I wanted to write THEY.
    3. viktor_ui
      viktor_ui 30 November 2012 14: 28
      -1
      IPMEN - HELLO! I think training ZABVO Borya-3 drinks
  15. erased
    erased 30 November 2012 10: 12
    0
    On the one hand, the law must be observed. on the other hand, obviously openly preparing future fighters is also stupid. except to take people from the Caucasus to non-combat units. Do not teach weapons skills, engineering training, tactics. Then nothing else.
  16. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 30 November 2012 10: 28
    0
    And what, a very convenient way to restrict certain personnel to the road to law enforcement agencies.
  17. omsbon
    omsbon 30 November 2012 10: 41
    +4
    Unfortunately, with respect to the Dagestanis, a kind word does not have such an effect as a fist.
    The main army is based on gangster and nationalist concepts - you don't need a fuck!
  18. Penek
    Penek 30 November 2012 10: 43
    +9
    It seems that now Dagestan is preparing for a war with the infidels .. Soon trained "warriors of Islam" will be needed.
    Between the first and second Chechens, Russia was already training "experts in the clearance of unexploded ordnance" for Ichkeria on its own.
    Unfortunately, for the most part, the Dagis are stronger and more physically and mentally prepared than the average conscript from Russia. This is only Russian Vanya for himself, these mountain children immediately fall into packs and begin to strangle the rest, often officers. More 2- 3x cannot be launched into the company, but sergeants and officers must immediately break them, only then can this wild energy be directed in the right direction.
    Definitely, no "wild divisions", in the long term it can become the basis of the armed forces of "Independent from anyone - Dagestan."
  19. SSR
    SSR 30 November 2012 10: 51
    +7
    Opponents of conscription into the Russian army of Caucasians may declare: why to call into the army those who undermine discipline in it,

    og it is all about discipline ... it turns out ...
    To me the gentlemen from the Mines of Oboronalkin .... hunting to say .. go down gentlemen to the ground and do not hide your head like ostriches in the sand ...
    1. Do Dagestan guys have a desire to serve? THERE IS.
    2. Once he expresses a desire, he must read the document at the military registration and enlistment office and sign in it that yes he AGREES,
    and the document says that he carries out all the orders of the senior in rank unquestioningly
    Three comments and he flies out of the Army without a warrior with a note in his passport that is not suitable for work in government agencies. as a default.
    For he gave his word .. do it. the guys in the Caucasus are smart too .. just the rules of the "Game" must be prescribed right away.
    And in general ... purely my personal opinion .. in the army .. do not keep those who do not want to serve ..
    do not want.. ? let's goodbye ... and there is no entry in the state structure in the passport
    It seems that now they are moving in the right direction, they are giving privileges to education ..
    but it is necessary to expand the reward system ... not to be greedy .. (served without comment the year at the exit get lifting 200000 thousand rubles for the whole period once minus 30000 thousand rubles twice 60000 thousand rubles and three times a wolf in the teeth and a kick in the ass)

    then smart guys will be drawn into the army and the MO will have one "headache" out of three excellent guys to choose one.
    1. TRex
      TRex 30 November 2012 12: 50
      +8
      SSR! Did you serve yourself? ... "The Dagestani guys have a desire to serve ..." Come on, work with them as a platoon or company commander ... Fuck they are needed in the army. It's just a gang.
      The Dagestan (Caucasian) lobby in the government is actively pushing this idea. what then to have in Moscow more henchmen ... These are those who are dancing lezginka at the Eternal Flame, scorching from trunks at weddings, etc.
      Few problems today? Get out of tomorrow ...
      1. SSR
        SSR 30 November 2012 13: 16
        +2
        The Spring Call of 1996 served. and then you read?
        the document says that he carries out all the orders of the senior rank unquestioningly
        Three comments and he flies out of the Army without a warrior with abouta mark in the passport that is not suitable for work in government agencies. as a default.

        and what .. if it is already written down and it’s scary to turn out of the unit ..?
        If the military is scared to turn away from the unit, then I repent that such a thing could have been suggested ...
        yes done a business stool.
        PS,
        if the guys poke bribes at the military registration and enlistment offices in order to go to serve .. then why not take bribes without agreement, but it is on the agreement to obey all orders .. three outstanding ... and go for a walk.
        and in general .. it’s a shame to read when the company is commanded not by a company, but by one or two dagas. even if a company cannot reason two dagas ...
        1. ramzes1776
          ramzes1776 30 November 2012 20: 31
          0
          It only dag will concern the above 3 comments? But what about the laws?
      2. bask
        bask 30 November 2012 13: 25
        +5
        TRex I served. I already wrote. Caucasians love and understand only power. At 80, when I licked. Inter-ethnic problems were only with Chechens. Dagestanchev had 10 people in the company, I didn’t notice them. 90% of recruits from Dagestan had a minimum of CCM for fighting. And our boys are 90% dead. Before you carry out the joint service of the Russians and Dagestanis. Our guys have to cook for a year, according to the GRU special forces program. Then, oh, at least half the company from S.Kavkaz. Everything will be quiet and peaceful. The officers would not stand up THE PARTY OF THE CAUCASIANS ...
        1. TRex
          TRex 30 November 2012 14: 01
          +4
          Well, you see - you both confirm that there are problems with them ... But why create these problems in our already troubled army? To please some Dagestan uncle sitting in the State Duma and pushing this idea through his corrupt deputies?
          For the army, a couple of thousand dags does not matter. Some comrades understand correctly - serving in the army for them is a loophole in government structures, a "ticket to life" for guys from the mountains ...
          1. bask
            bask 30 November 2012 14: 45
            +4
            TRex Yes, because the Dagestan uncles give up to 90% of the vote in the elections of the current government. How not to listen to them ???. And the guys will die Russia ..
          2. ramzes1776
            ramzes1776 30 November 2012 20: 35
            +2
            Quote: TRex
            For the army, a couple of thousand dugs does not matter.

            Do you know how many brigades we have now? Divide this two or three thousand by the number of brigades and lawlessness in all the armed forces is guaranteed with our "tolerance".
      3. Mairos
        Mairos 30 November 2012 20: 22
        +3
        Very true! I suffered with them both for platoon and company commanders. And to plant one of them is a problem! The command is afraid of getting a "stain" on the part's reputation. All nerves frayed with them. Difficult people. And it is dangerous to hit in the face - the daghs themselves will "snitch" the relatives right there, and they will go to the prosecutor's office. And all this was back in the USSR.
  20. IRBIS
    IRBIS 30 November 2012 10: 58
    +8
    In the army, as in the whole of society, the laws of the Russian Federation should work. And there is no need to make "amendments" for national peculiarities. If you didn't follow the order - get a couple of years of disbat on your "shoulders". He let his hands go and whether he showed a "national" trait of character - the real term under the Criminal Code. It still works, it has been tested by practice. True, I had to go over the head of the commander to the prosecutor's office, which then led to troubles in the service. The law will work - you can call on anyone.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 30 November 2012 11: 23
      +6
      Correctly. In our country there should be 1 dictate of the LAW.
      1. bask
        bask 30 November 2012 13: 31
        +2
        leon Where in our country we saw the dictatorship of the law. Get down to earth. In today's system built by the Tolera-shit-democrats. In Russia, the law doesn’t smell like it. Everyone lives on the principle. ..A SIMPLE PEOPLE CAN BE PRESSED AND FOR THIS NOT ..... I WILL NOT HAVE ANYTHING. I, WE ARE SIMPLE PEOPLE AND SOLDIERS ARE WRONG UNDER THIS AUTHORITY !!!!!!!
    2. tambourine 2012
      tambourine 2012 30 November 2012 14: 09
      +2
      IRBIS, all right, Frederick the great, in general, was gaining criminals and vagrants in the army, and after all, the army was one of the best in Europe, if there were only one law for all, then the mentality would be put further.
    3. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 30 November 2012 20: 37
      +2
      Quote: IRBIS
      If you didn't follow the order, get a couple of years of disbat on your "shoulders".

      Now the disbat has to be "earned" and tried very hard!
  21. Klibanophoros
    Klibanophoros 30 November 2012 11: 27
    +5
    There are a great many reasons for the uncontrollable behavior of Caucasians, from the collapse of the USSR to the debauchery of Russian women ("Natasha"), but summing up, without going into them, we can say that we have lost these people for the country.
    Neither honest work (and work ethics throughout Russia has been destroyed), they are not accustomed to any discipline, but we are talking about post-Soviet generations, they are not accustomed, and together with the mountaineers' natural tendency to anarchy and selfishness we get extremely dangerous individuals incapable of living in a civilized society (in the case of the Russian Federation, outwardly civilized, but essentially barbaric and neo-feudal) based on public consent.
    So think about whether militant, egocentric anarchists are capable of following orders, when the situation requires death, I will leave this question open.
    PS But I have not yet spoken about the destructive nature of the Islamization of the Caucasus of the 90s ...
    1. Mairos
      Mairos 30 November 2012 20: 27
      0
      "There are a great many reasons for the uncontrollable behavior of Caucasians, from the collapse of the USSR to the debauchery of Russian women" - and this has to do with it? What nonsense ...
      1. Klibanophoros
        Klibanophoros 1 December 2012 00: 18
        +4
        The answer is simple: people's attitude begins with a personal acquaintance. In the East, there is a stereotype that has emerged from somewhere that all Russian women are free prostitutes. Did you vacation in Turkey or Egypt with a Russian group? If not, you're in luck.
        In the end, stereotypes are not taken from scratch. And can these people be respected from the point of view of their Islamic morality, where a woman is wrapped up like a head of cabbage? This is where the contempt for Russian men begins, all the more so as most of them do not know how to stand up for themselves: everywhere you read the news: on the street, Caucasians killed, Caucasians killed in a tavern, Caucasians, Caucasians, Caucasians ... A CAUCASUS WHO? Nobody. Almost always Russians go to the hospital or morgue, while Caucasians go to their "Natasha".


        But the collapse of the USSR with its ideology, the collapse of the ideals of a secular lifestyle, the collapse of the educational system brought completely wild, archaic patterns of behavior out of darkness to the surface. Well, I say, there are dozens of reasons. I just two, very different, outlined.
        We can talk now about the lack of normal male education and how thanks to two lost the Kremlin merged with the Chechen wars, the authority of Russians in the Caucasus is lower than the plinth.
        Those who want to challenge the point of view that Puten leaked the Second Chechen War, I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the photo.
        It’s not even Grozny - it’s Gudermes.





        Like, they didn’t give it, but typed.
        About the taxes that Chechnya pays, I better keep silent. And about the Chechen debts for housing and communal services, too.
  22. Nazrug
    Nazrug 30 November 2012 11: 40
    +2
    In the brigade I served, the problems with the Caucasians were mainly due to mopping, well, everything related to cleaning, but they took up men's work without problems, for example, removing snow or dragging bags of potatoes. When the contractors will clean the parts, there shouldn’t be such a problem with them, but there should be a limit on the part, and as they wrote above, they will create groups, this is in their blood.
  23. rennim
    rennim 30 November 2012 11: 46
    +1
    I think that quotas for them should not be increased ... And if it is better to call them up for service, it’s better to build and pipeline parts .. Airfield support will not hurt either. Let them inject. Moreover, the composition of such parts should be completely without Slavs ... And weapons do not give.
    1. Klibanophoros
      Klibanophoros 1 December 2012 12: 57
      +1
      My friend served at the airport near Saratov. In part, the Dargins ruled the ball. Bottom line: a jaw broken by a stool, they fought almost honestly - 3 by 5.
      Allowing Caucasians to be called up for service only means the continuation of barracks wars. And given that weapons, battle tactics are becoming more and more difficult from decade to decade, it’s not only distracting from the training process, these showdowns hinder all soldier’s time.
      The officers (by the way, those are still mattresses in their bulk - the negative selection of the last 20 years has affected and only those who cannot find themselves in civilian life have remained) ask them: for whom will you fight? They answer: "" for Dagestan ".
      And it is not a fact that these "barracks lions", having got to the front line, do not desert with weapons in their hands to the side of the enemy.
      Definitely, the current conscription generation of Caucasians will bring more chaos and confusion to the army units, to the army, which is already tortured by one big continuous 25-year "reform", the main success of which is the collapse of everything and everyone.
  24. cucun
    cucun 30 November 2012 11: 50
    0
    I am still for the "Islamic battalions". No "wild divisions". There is a lot of experience in tsarist times. The service was delayed quite normally. The officers are also Muslim ...
    At one time, the personal protection of the Russian Tsar was from the Chechens ....
    1. virm
      virm 30 November 2012 13: 31
      +1
      There was no such thing. Never.
    2. tambourine 2012
      tambourine 2012 30 November 2012 14: 13
      +1
      personal protection of the Russian Tsar consisted of a life ataman regiment
      1. Dr. Pilyulkin
        Dr. Pilyulkin 30 November 2012 16: 58
        +4
        Quote: Tambourine 2012
        personal protection of the Russian Tsar consisted of a life ataman regiment

        Well, not only that. We will be fair.
        The third son of Shamil, Mohamed Shafi, served in the convoy of Alexander II for sixteen years, and resigned as a major general and a veteran of the guard.
        In 1828, the Caucasian Mountain High Half-Squadron was formed. The first commander of the convoy was Sultan Azamat Giray, a descendant of the Crimean khans. The semi-squadron, assembled from the most generous mountaineers, was multinational. The largest was the representation of Kabardians - 12 people.
        Later, the composition of the imperial convoy more than once increased, the ratio of representatives of different peoples in it changed: representatives of the Transcaucasus were added. So, the first platoon of the Life Guards of the Caucasian Squadron was formed from noble Georgians; accepted into the escort troops and noble Armenians. In one, the tradition was unchanged: the royal convoy consisted of Russian Cossacks and Caucasian horsemen. But the Cossacks, yes, were the basis of the personal protection of the Russian tsars.
    3. qube4
      qube4 30 November 2012 18: 54
      0
      And this is vryatli
  25. Rustam009
    Rustam009 30 November 2012 11: 57
    +7
    The problem is the inability of the commanders to maintain discipline. The psychology of Caucasians is different than Russian. (I’m Caucasian myself). This triggers a sense of minority, the need to protect oneself, when this line passes, a feeling of domination arises. Correctly noted in the article, it is just necessary for the commander and colleagues to demonstrate strength in time when it is needed, and only then to give the opportunity to feel that he is his own, and nothing else. If this does not happen. the law of physics will work. any action gives rise to opposition.
  26. not good
    not good 30 November 2012 12: 00
    +9
    In our unit, which was formed at the end of the 80s l / s, what was called was assembled, one by one and naturally far from the very best, who would give the best, but for that the officers and midshipmen were selected demanding, and any creeps non-statutory independence was suppressed very harshly, and despite the fact that 70% l / s were grandfathers (including Caucasians) even without a guardhouse, they managed to put things in order quite quickly. The truth was always not only in the barracks the duty midshipman, but also the providing officer, including at night, and the senior officers had constant support in the performance of their duties, and for the frequent senior service officers, the foremen performed independently, something that can not always be trusted with a young midshipman. As a result, certain traditions have developed that make it possible to bring order to the new arrivals and numerous seconded ones. If there is a will and desire for command, and most importantly constant interaction between commanders, including younger ones, the nationality of the subordinate does not matter. The truth is all this costs sleepless nights and a lot of personal loss of time. And as an example: one proud Arel took out everyone, complained with a letter to his homeland, his father arrived, kicked his son across the barracks, and he turned out to be a model sailor soldier
  27. Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 30 November 2012 12: 37
    +5
    The question is not simple. They make decisions alone, but others have to disentangle themselves. I know one thing for sure. Very hard people. But at first there are more ponts and sketches than there really is. They understand physical strength very well. Without real leverage, do not break, even crack. The fact that parents come out - the last century, after the Caucasian wars does not roll. Nevertheless, they need to be called upon. You will find a common language - the golden guys. But everyone can find this language ...
  28. tverskoi77
    tverskoi77 30 November 2012 12: 45
    +7
    The reason is simple: each commander of the unit hides riots from the commander’s platoon to the commander of the unit (and at the same time reluctance to sign his powerlessness). And also the second important factor: the shortage of soldiers. With the average discipline in parts of our army, subject to a tough fight against it, units may turn out to be half empty.
    The current situation with the desire of the Dagestanis to serve is completely solvable.
  29. DAGESTAN333
    DAGESTAN333 30 November 2012 17: 16
    +5
    It seems to me that those who want to serve Dagestanis must pass a special psychological test for compliance with army discipline. The army should be joined not by those Dagestanis for whom the army is to exercise in their Ponte on the Uruses (Russians) and to defend their personal desires everywhere, but those for whom the army is АRussia and dream (as I for example at one time (dreams did not come true)) to see military equipment, and simply pay back the debt to the homeland.
    1. bask
      bask 30 November 2012 17: 44
      +5
      Dagestan. I wrote above in koment In the 80s. What we had in our company were 10 Dagestanis. Kumyks. Avarets, Dargins., Lezgins, I had no problems with them for 2 years of service. Now the youth are from Dagestan, , poisoned ,,, by foodamentolism and Wahhabism. In 1999, the Russians fought alongside you. What happened literally in 5 years. Where did such fierce hatred of the Russians ?????
      1. DAGESTAN333
        DAGESTAN333 30 November 2012 19: 07
        +11
        Quote: bask
        Why such a fierce hatred of the Russians?

        -baskYou know, there is no particular hatred of the Russians, there is (as the comrade put it above) the aggressive energy of youth, there is frank lack of culture and the absence of a common ideology on a national scale (and Dagestan will certainly beat everyone here).
        (now about high) If there is no common ideology and goals, then, of course, a person will understand only by the age of forty ... - The combat banner of the unit, officer, your commander (no matter how mean he is) ... all these concepts, directly relate to the honor of the state, and the honor of the state directly relates to your personal honor!

        All nations in Russia are equal to Russians. Russia is bad when it is the Russians who do not know where to go.
        1. SSR
          SSR 30 November 2012 19: 43
          +4
          Quote: DAGESTANETS333
          frank lack of culture and the absence of a common ideology of a state scale

          By this, unfortunately, the whole country is sinful now ... yes, half of the planet. but there is movement .. the main thing is to consolidate the movement.
        2. Mairos
          Mairos 30 November 2012 23: 13
          +5
          Yes, the Russians are now in complete disarray. I agree. Because for centuries where to go, the Russian people were determined by the leadership of the country, which led the country, and did not do business in the country, as it is now. But the Russians do not know how to live the interests of fellow countrymen and relatives, like the same Dagestanis and other small but united peoples. There are two possible options: Russia will survive and the established order of Russian relations with the state will return, or Russia will not become as such, and the Russians will turn into a diaspora, numbering 25-30 million and will behave the same way as the same Dagestanis now.
      2. General_Nogay
        General_Nogay 3 December 2012 10: 23
        -2
        And you come to us and see: where there were factories - now there are IPs, where there were factories - everyone was pulled apart, where there were powerful state factories - they collapsed! Where were the best health resorts of the Caucasus - private hotels! You’ll come to the hospital, the doctor will help me poorly, and then pay to the cashier first (there’s such a song! And like managers in Moscow, don’t know this ??? Anzhi OUR shit, and take a look at your abromovich, instead of our football sponsors the sport of the true enemies of Russia! Where were holy Russians when in the late 90s we stood (all of Dagestan) dug up and with weapons against thousands of Chechen fighters ??? Where were people when they were starving to death? Could not get pensions for several years! And now Suddenly DIRECTLY AND CATEGORICALLY REQUIRES you respected and loved !!! For what ???
        PS Answer me, so that it was how to explain to the zemiks why you should be loved and respected !!!
        1. Hon
          Hon 3 December 2012 11: 05
          +3
          And then we ourselves were swollen from hunger, and we also did not pay pensions. Are there many factories in Russia now? Everyone knows about corruption in your regions, but they can’t do it. The tax officer was delivered from Moscow, so he was nearly overwhelmed ...
          1. General_Nogay
            General_Nogay 3 December 2012 12: 43
            +2
            And who is this tax specialist and what was he supposed to do there ??? it’s necessary not to be a tax specialist, but the Special Federal Security Service and handcuffed the entire composition of the government of Dagestan in the taiga! Then you look and will not bring anyone down !!!
            1. Hon
              Hon 3 December 2012 14: 31
              +1
              Vladimir Radchenko. The problem is that without blood the leadership of Dagestan will not go away, they are closely intertwined with crime and have essentially turned into princes. You can remove them with the help of law enforcement agencies, but then a wave like Russia will go and want to enslave us. What should we send troops to Chechnya? So for now, your leadership is doing well ...
        2. ramzes1776
          ramzes1776 3 December 2012 12: 41
          +3
          And you think in other regions it’s smeared with honey. The same devastation as yours, if not worse. You’ll drop into any Russian village and you’ll see for yourself. Only you still get a little less money from the federal budget than Chechnya gives, which your bureaucrats successfully they’re putting their pockets in their pocket, and their sons in Moscow are lawless. And at the end of 90, if it weren’t for the army of horseradish you would have liberated the captured mountain villages and would have gone under the Wahhabis for a long time !!!!
          PS And now you answer for what to love and respect you.
          1. General_Nogay
            General_Nogay 3 December 2012 12: 51
            +1
            If it were not for the resistance of the peoples of Dagestan against this plague, then not only we but the entire Caucasus would have stood under the banner of Islam! The army says, well then ask any Russian soldier who liberated these villages, as the people met them! They gave the last bread home to soldiers, if only they would not fight on empty stomachs! And who showed the army mountain trails that FIG who knows other than local?
            PS And we do not ask to love ourselves. We will do without your respect too! The only thing we need is JUSTICE!
            1. ramzes1776
              ramzes1776 3 December 2012 13: 08
              +2
              Demand justice from your leaders. And about the fact that the soldiers fought on an empty stomach, this is another topic. That fact helped the local population !!! But the main work was done by the army, and then Chechnya between things. So here then another topic is being discussed.
              1. General_Nogay
                General_Nogay 3 December 2012 16: 48
                +1
                We demanded justice from the Ministry of Defense and in the process we got our way!
                Of course, 4 thousand draftees are not 10 or 15 000, but still better than 200!
                Only here many are against it. It seems that many of those sitting here were humiliated by the Dagi or very much offended that they were silent until this article was born!
                1. ramzes1776
                  ramzes1776 3 December 2012 17: 29
                  +3
                  Quote: General_Nogay
                  Only here many are against it.

                  If they follow the orders of the commanders, they will not engage in extortion from colleagues of other nationalities, teach materiel and engage in combat training, and that, in the event of a violation of hazing, they will be punished according to the law, and not as now, so that they do not feel their impunity. you will not have a price and I will be “FOR” with all my hands. I’m not talking for all the guys in Dagestan. There are a lot of worthy boys, but there are enough scumbags. That's right. the ability to obey senior commanders. If there is no one-man command, then there is no army.
                2. Hon
                  Hon 3 December 2012 19: 41
                  +1
                  And what was the injustice? You are so arch-fucked that you don’t even want to call up the army. Why are Tatars or Kalmyks being called up and there are no Dagas? You remind me of gays who are constantly fighting for their rights, prohibiting calling dad dad and mom mom
                  1. DAGESTAN333
                    DAGESTAN333 4 December 2012 09: 51
                    +1
                    At the expense of gays you are in vain ... You can not scatter these words, if you are a worthy person.

                    Quote: Hon
                    forbidding to call dad dad and mom mom

                    - you think it is very difficult? - look - our conscripts are 70% ill-mannered, arrogant savages ... and commanders in the army are 70% snotty wimps who cannot restore order in their units. ... just business ...
                  2. General_Nogay
                    General_Nogay 4 December 2012 10: 57
                    +2
                    You remind me of gays! Squeal like half-bodies that now 4 thousand. Dag you bent! And who is gay here ... well
                    1. SAVA555.IVANOV
                      SAVA555.IVANOV 4 December 2012 12: 22
                      +1
                      And really why are you dancing on the street in front of people and in front of each other, twist your asses, squeal !? This is decent behavior for you !? And when you get to the "musarnya", how do you get out of there! ?? For money ?? "Garbage" feed, you are friends with them, right !? You probably show off on purpose to get to them for what purpose! ?? I served in the 80s with the fathers of these "disco dancers", normal men, like us, did not like sergeants, they were "afraid" of the sergeant, they ignored the political officers, obeyed the company commander, the battalion commander was respected, and the service went on as usual, no one was there was some kind of "non-statutory" so he did not threaten the security of the country. Think about who and why in you spins the feeling of superiority, and permissiveness, hanging "noodles".
                      1. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 4 December 2012 12: 30
                        0
                        Democracy yo mine after all! They wanted democracy and got it with all its consequences! They want to dance on the street, they want at home, they want to go on the subway! Or is there a law prohibiting dancing on the street ??? Perhaps it is better to throng the crowds near the fountain than to dance ???
                      2. SAVA555.IVANOV
                        SAVA555.IVANOV 4 December 2012 12: 53
                        0
                        Yes, dance to your health, every year more and more sophisticated, maybe you can take something from the "break", borrow something from Emo, and you can also pick up a couple of "lotions" from punks, well, or at least like Indians in feathers by a fire with a tambourine, will look gorgeous. I do not approve of Bukharikov either.
                      3. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 4 December 2012 12: 58
                        0
                        We do not need your advice; we do not need advisers!
                      4. SAVA555.IVANOV
                        SAVA555.IVANOV 4 December 2012 14: 29
                        0
                        Without my "advice" you will "wind" everything on yourself, if someone told you that you can bang your head against the wall, then do not be "ahead of the planet" of the whole, do not beat. And think more modestly about yourself. You have created nothing as a nation but disorder. That's when you, as Russians, will create the Russian Empire, and then, as Russians, will become an "important link" in the creation of such a state as the USSR, or at least you have enough brain power not to follow the lead of radical Islamists, Wahhabis and other obscurantists, then for sure you will not need my advice. In the meantime, dance like a lion Alex-Keks from the cartoon "Madagascar" and at the end of the performance growl loudly, we are "very afraid" of you.
                      5. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 4 December 2012 14: 44
                        0
                        If you are trying to offend me or hurt me, you are trying in vain! And by the way, we don’t dance like a lion Alex, we dance like Dagestanis! Maybe it’s after you, after a couple of three glasses of moonshine, they dance the Kalinka like Alex’s lion and growl loudly at the end, but definitely not with us! If you are such an intelligent adviser then stick around here, and not in the Kremlin in advisers or in parliament!
                        By the way, your phrase about: And think more modestly about yourself. Refers to you! Take off megalomania as a super mega adviser!
                      6. SAVA555.IVANOV
                        SAVA555.IVANOV 4 December 2012 15: 08
                        +1
                        Democracy is mine after all! They wanted democracy and got it with all its consequences! So if you yourself do not see and cannot understand your behavior, you have to read fairy tales to you like children. Otherwise, radical Islamists generously sponsored by the West will come and give you "mirrors, beads, pieces of colored fabric" and you will forget how our ancestors together against the Nazis fought, as they created together during the Cold War, such a weapon that still pierces enemies in a cold sweat. I did not try to offend because the word “you, you” was written with a little meaning not for you personally. Please, finally, one piece of advice !?. Do not go to the "musarnya" to work, because recently a lot of you want to "work" there, then the people will not wash off the shame at all.
                      7. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 4 December 2012 15: 18
                        +1
                        Who wants to come from my zemiks. Personally, I didn’t go there (although I was invited to the police and OMON, there are UBDeshniki there) because I don’t want people to say bribe-taker in the back, take care of them, etc. etc. Not only our ancestors, but I myself (and a lot of my Zemiks by the way) personally fought side by side with the Ivanes against timid Georgians. So do not la la.
                      8. SAVA555.IVANOV
                        SAVA555.IVANOV 4 December 2012 17: 05
                        0
                        Well, that’s the result. "I don't advise you - you don't dance."
                      9. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 4 December 2012 17: 12
                        0
                        The result each remained in its own opinion.
                        Maybe it's time to hold a referendum on the separation of Dagestan from Russia?
                        And then we will see how great you are without us!
                      10. SAVA555.IVANOV
                        SAVA555.IVANOV 4 December 2012 17: 22
                        0
                        Again 25 !!!!! ))) Separation from Russia? Well, how will you continue to live? What will you live on? With whom will you be friends? Who will your enemies be? Although I am not authorized to resolve such an issue.
                      11. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 4 December 2012 17: 33
                        -1
                        To begin with, we outweigh all the bribe takers! We will form our government! And quietly become a tourist paradise! In the Caspian Sea, Mama Do Not Cry! We will live, and even get drunk, we’ll start the current 20 years after separation! We won’t go around the world! But we will have our own country, otherwise you do not want to see us in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Center.Russia. And about separation, the first conversations went from the Slavs. We just thought about it. It seems to be living in one country, and the attitude towards us is worse even than towards amers!
                      12. SAVA555.IVANOV
                        SAVA555.IVANOV 4 December 2012 18: 03
                        +1
                        For example, when the film "White Sun of the Desert" was filmed, during the day they built the scenery and in the evening the locals took it away to the farms, some director "stole" the clock. Offend one tourist - they will tick in droves, one shot and no one will come for a year, besides the Islamists have their own views on you, they have already powdered your head, it's not so simple, change your character so that the tourists are comfortable.
                      13. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 09: 42
                        +1
                        One FSB officer in Dagestan said: If they give us a command to destroy all terrorists and all like them, then in a day there will not be a single Wahhabi! It was enough for me to understand these words that not only the Saudis and the British are involved and interested here! No wah, so there is no money to fight wahs. Unfortunately, money is higher than people! So that.
                        And about tourists, real men with families will come to us! Gays, lesbians and tolerasts will be closed)))
                      14. Hon
                        Hon 5 December 2012 13: 42
                        0
                        Wahhabis are not your biggest problem because you can simply kill them, the problem is in your leadership, which, in essence, is unattainable for Moscow and can steal money with impunity. Funds are allocated to Dagestan; if these funds were used for development, factories and factories would appear and sanatoria would work. If people had a job and a decent salary, how many people were willing to go to the forest?
                      15. Hon
                        Hon 5 December 2012 13: 31
                        +1
                        It will be different. Corruption officials (in your case, even bandits) will not want to hang themselves, so they will seek support on the side, and the guys with green banners will come up to you, and they will begin to repair lawlessness, as it was already in Chechnya, gained independence and that they healed richly, turned into tourist paradise? And this whole story will end with the civil war in Dagestan, which, in principle, is already underway.
                    2. Hon
                      Hon 5 December 2012 09: 19
                      +1
                      Only for some reason, when they take you by the ass, immediately run to write applications to the prosecutor's office that you are being pressed and insulted. And then the diaspora, mothers, folders and other defenders come running. If you cannot clean up after yourself because "men" then mummies, then let them clean up after you.
                      1. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 09: 46
                        0
                        Another word about moms and respect for you as an interlocutor will be 0!
                      2. SAVA555.IVANOV
                        SAVA555.IVANOV 5 December 2012 10: 15
                        0
                        General_Nogay Everything is correct Hon wrote, if this is not a man's work, then who should do this work! ?? Everyone should solve their own problems himself. And the Russians, for example, did not have to clean up after themselves and for their comrades who came from the guard and were tired. And when the Russians are your dream It turns out that a Dagestani soldier should be followed by a whole camp in which everything will be for a "real man" !!! ???))))) I must tell someone to give the Dagestanis "Pepsi-Cola" and that there would be dry closets. So it turns out that the idea is not bad !? But no one insulted mom.
                      3. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 10: 34
                        0
                        The civilians told you that they will clean the floors and tear glasses for a penny!
                        A man must do men's work! Engage in sports, shooting, combat training, learning new weapons, and not wash floors and clean outhouses. That's because the boys wash the floors, most of them are rags, not warriors! 1 dag down there was built and an opozir of 8 polomoechniks, but if they were engaged in male affairs, then the answer to the dag would be male!
                      4. SAVA555.IVANOV
                        SAVA555.IVANOV 5 December 2012 11: 34
                        0
                        Quote: General_Nogay
                        1 dag there below built and the opozir of 8 floor cleaners

                        I wonder with whom you collaborate so massively humiliating Russians with the world union of piradoras !?
                        Quote: General_Nogay
                        but if they were engaged in male affairs, then the answer to the dag would be male!

                        Or maybe with masochists!? Ask yourself for an answer, but in the normal way it is impossible !? When each soldier serves for himself.
                      5. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 11: 39
                        0
                        Most importantly, our boys will serve and EVERYTHING! So you can burp bile further!
                        So let's goodbye!
                      6. SAVA555.IVANOV
                        SAVA555.IVANOV 5 December 2012 12: 53
                        +1
                        What do you want!? Serve all the same !? What word is "SERVE" !!!!))))))) Well SERVE just do not "vyёbyvaetsya like flies on glass."
                        All the best!!))))
                      7. Hon
                        Hon 5 December 2012 13: 56
                        0
                        It is written with a pitchfork on the water
                      8. webdog
                        webdog 5 December 2012 14: 08
                        +2
                        General_Nogay, how proud and sharp you are ...
                        Have you been to combat anywhere? well, except for the computer? counter strike, I guessed right ?? !!! otherwise your nickname is registered there ...
                        otherwise you can see a professional photo ... it’s directly attached to the computer ...
                        where is the stern look? when did he manage to reach the general? you scumbag? You only saw weapons in the picture)))
                        I present to everyone on the forum of the super-general)))))) cool specialist on counter strike))
                        a photo:
                      9. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 15: 35
                        -1
                        Well, you haven’t posted more pictures from the contact, there are much better ones! Yes, I fought in Tskhinvali so that such degenerates like you would sit quietly and pour mud on us! Yes, and the comp.toys disease since childhood, well, I really wanted to be a soldier who does not pass! Yes, I'm not a General by rank, but the soldier who does not dream of becoming a general is bad! And you are just a dog, or rather a web-dog, which sits here to bark! You can bark further! Well, bark something!
                      10. webdog
                        webdog 12 December 2012 02: 27
                        +3
                        pancake!!!!!!!!!!!! so late I noticed that Your Highness was crowing something)))
                        young man keep yourself in control))) stop lying to elders ...
                        in which Tskhinval? 2008 ... included almost 100% of the unit consisting of Russian boys. Well, the Chechen battalion, very famous and cool professionals serve in it ... so are you from it? oh my God, how could I not see in this young guy a real professional of military operations !?
                        you're lying and at the same time I’m writing some garbage to my mailbox ...
                        do not write me anymore. because learn to write in Russian)))
                        Thank you for the attention)))
                      11. Hon
                        Hon 5 December 2012 13: 53
                        +2
                        And imagine the part where only Dagestanis serve and there are no civilians. What will you do then, overgrown with dirt?
                      12. General_Nogay
                        General_Nogay 5 December 2012 15: 36
                        -1
                        When there will be such a part then we’ll think about what to do!
                      13. Hon
                        Hon 5 December 2012 13: 07
                        +4
                        with mummies, I really went over the shelf, I apologize, but the essence is the same if traditions forbid you to take a rag in your hands then why are you tearing into the army? there are no women who can be entrusted with this work. But it’s not a matter of rags, the fact is that Caucasian youth behaves in relation to other nationalities, arrogant, aggressive, and constantly provokes conflicts. Look at the Caucasian youth from the side, how much do they differ from skinheads in their behavior? Now imagine what it would be like for you to serve with skinheads, and they are also involved in sports and are united. And do not be surprised that after serving other ethnic groups, there is a sharply negative attitude towards the Caucasians.
            2. Region65
              Region65 30 December 2012 07: 11
              0
              Well, you see, dear, all the same, Russian soldiers fought off your lands) and you ask where they say the Russians were) and by the way, the Russians were also in the militia.
  30. david210512
    david210512 30 November 2012 17: 21
    0
    purely my opinion let them serve but it is necessary in each part not more than 2-3 people
  31. pinachet
    pinachet 30 November 2012 17: 34
    +6
    personal example.
    in our communications battalion, Russians and other glorious were serving.
    there was no lawlessness; hazing was purely ritual (young people went to day service, old ones to guard).
    on the contrary there was a motorized rifle regiment (there were 30 percent of Dagestanis and other faithful). there was just an ass. about the fact that the Russian guy there had been scamming for himself for two years and that ... I don’t even say the guy, and so there was the dawn of crime , the junior officers and warrant officers there were also not considered people and sometimes beaten. And in my memory there are two corpses. After the demobilization they don’t go home, but live somewhere nearby and outrage.
    if to summarize, they have nothing to do in the army, except for the lack of discipline, we are preparing future bandit underground.
    1. gribnik777
      gribnik777 30 November 2012 18: 19
      +3
      ??????????????
      1. MG42
        MG42 30 November 2012 19: 17
        +4
        Quote: gribnik777
        ??????????????

        On the net, unfortunately there is a lot of such good. Indeed, so that no more than 2 people per company are crowded and bullied.
      2. SSR
        SSR 1 December 2012 10: 10
        0
        Quote: gribnik777
        ??????????????

        to purely "demagoguery" I can answer the same. and before starting the type I did not read, but I condemn ... follow the link and read it again ...
        http://topwar.ru/19587-smi-dagestanskiy-student-vzorval-internet-prizvav-zemlyak

        ov-ne-vesti-sebya-v-moskve-kak-byki.html


        The issue of education and culture, the maturity of a person as a person has not been canceled by anyone.
  32. homosum20
    homosum20 30 November 2012 17: 41
    +1
    Why is it a bad idea to send dagos to hot spots? And without a tutorial. If there are no points, arrange. The appeal of the Daghs to increase in connection with the wishes of the workers?
    1. General_Nogay
      General_Nogay 3 December 2012 12: 55
      -2
      The fact that your idea is for the brainless as you are!
  33. I. Brovkin
    I. Brovkin 30 November 2012 18: 19
    +2
    .
    And also as an example: one proud Arel took out all, complained with a letter to his homeland, his father arrived, kicked his son across the barracks, he turned out to be a model sailor

    For me, it’s somehow humiliating for an officer to write a letter and complain to parents about their bad son. This does not come out of the army, but a KINDERGARTEN of some kind. the desbats were canceled. They re-educate better than the prison) is sent as a draft evader.
    1. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 30 November 2012 20: 47
      +2
      Quote: I. Brovkin
      For me, it’s somehow humiliating for an officer to write a letter and complain to their parents about their bad son.

      The letter was signed by the commander of the unit, and by the way, it had a very effective effect on many, even one reminder that they would send. By the way, the debates did not cancel. We have two of them: Mulino and Chita.
    2. Dikremnij
      Dikremnij 30 November 2012 21: 49
      +1
      How canceled, it seems that there are two left, or has something changed during this time?
  34. datur
    datur 30 November 2012 19: 08
    +4
    WERE in the Dagi regiment - there were problems! to us ! talked - hard, with both old and new - and the problems immediately disappeared !!! but I won’t lie, they are frost-bitten bastards except for strength they don’t understand anything !! even their most goners !! - mentality, you know! but as they understand the power - it's just pipets !!! but in the face immediately understand !! power for them is power !!!
    1. DAGESTAN333
      DAGESTAN333 30 November 2012 19: 13
      +3
      datur, I suspected that you were a powerful guy ... - but not to the same extent ...
      1. roninas
        roninas 30 November 2012 22: 41
        +6
        DAGESTAN333, unfortunately, there are not very many people like you. I like your discretion, it is noticeable that you are an educated and thoughtful person, and your reasoning about the mentality of the mountain peoples is very true. One thing I believed for sure is the cult of power in the Caucasus above all. We had three Chechens, the guys are very strong and athletic. And perhaps, in other conditions, they would have brought problems. But ... the service was held in the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (1987-1989) where the same sports were serving. And no less harsh Russian guys, and therefore the Chechens understood what could happen if they suddenly cho. By the way, I became friends with them, what I liked about them. that they were people of the word. If the word gave, that's all. In general, the problem is acute, despite the fact that it was previously THE IDEOLOGY OF A COUNTRY, GREAT, POWERFUL. And now ... without an idea that unites ALL living in the vastness of Russia, nothing will work
        1. ramzes1776
          ramzes1776 30 November 2012 22: 52
          0
          Quote: roninas
          We had three Chechens, the guys are very strong and athletic. And perhaps, in other conditions, they would have brought problems. But ... the service was held in the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (1987-1989) where the same sports served.

          What do you think on whose side these guys were on the night of December 31 to January 1, 1995?
          1. Mairos
            Mairos 30 November 2012 23: 21
            +5
            Yes, that’s not the question. The guys from the Caucasus are really, for the most part, with character and physically well developed - well, there it’s just a bit of a zapadlok. The Russian boys, in the majority, again, are just suffocates who love sports with beer and on TV. And this is also one of the reasons that 3-5 Dagestanis can terrorize a whole company. Well, mutual assistance and willpower .. naturally
          2. roninas
            roninas 1 December 2012 00: 07
            0
            What do you think on whose side these guys were on the night of December 31 to January 1, 1995 ...... Honestly, I don’t know .. But I think that they were not even in Chechnya at that time. I don’t think that they all rushed into gangs, although, of course, I do not rule out that. There are many people who defended against crime in the army after the army joined their ranks. Such were the times, and people have different reasons for their actions.
          3. roninas
            roninas 1 December 2012 00: 19
            +2
            ramzes1776,
            I don’t even know, to be honest ... I’d like to think that they weren’t in Chechnya at all, you never know how fate happened ...
      2. General_Nogay
        General_Nogay 3 December 2012 12: 58
        0
        Brother, yes, he finally BATMEN!
  35. rapid1934
    rapid1934 30 November 2012 19: 19
    +1
    Today, no more than 1 dag per piece.
    In the future, this problem may be resolved with good commanders who cannot be beaten by the upper command.
  36. sprut
    sprut 30 November 2012 19: 42
    0
    We need a comprehensive state policy to assimilate the Caucasian and other peoples into the common Russian space. Russians are a state-forming core, not a single nation in Russia has even an approximate property. There are no Russians — there are no other peoples of Russia, for all will be destroyed by the conquerors ... It is very important to understand!
    1. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 30 November 2012 21: 02
      +2
      Quote: sprut
      We need a comprehensive state policy to assimilate the Caucasian and other peoples into the common Russian space.

      Yes, there will be no such thing. They will start to move all over the village and crush the local population unambiguously. However, the mentality is different. Soon, Russian refugees will go with such a policy from the Krasnodar Territory and from Stavropol.
      1. Dikremnij
        Dikremnij 30 November 2012 21: 52
        +1
        I completely agree with you
      2. sprut
        sprut 30 November 2012 23: 26
        +1
        And I think it will be. Only this question is not 10-20 years old. This is a matter of several generations. And what we are observing now is precisely the lack of complete upbringing over the past 20–25 years ... We must work, not destroy and divide.
    2. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 30 November 2012 22: 11
      +1
      Quote: sprut
      Russians are a state-forming core, not a single nation in Russia has even an approximate property

      Yeah, only everyone has their own diasporas, communities that do not give their own in offense, but about our people they only wipe their feet and all and sundry. Like there in Jewish Christianity: "God endured and told us", "They gave in the face with one hand, substitute the other, so that they will give you on your feet !!! "Be merciful and tolerant (tolerant) Slavs and there in heaven (when everyone is cut out in figs) we all will be rewarded laughing
      1. sprut
        sprut 30 November 2012 23: 28
        +1
        Why be tolerant. I’m saying this is a comprehensive work that includes many aspects.
  37. EropMyxoMop
    EropMyxoMop 30 November 2012 19: 44
    +3
    http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2012/543/irxg329.jpg
    1. sprut
      sprut 14 December 2012 23: 44
      0
      In fact, there are more than 150000000 Russians, all the rest ... Must integrate into the all-Russian space.
  38. bashir141
    bashir141 30 November 2012 21: 06
    +1
    Why is there a need for an approach to every soldier? If he wants to serve in the army, then let him fulfill all the requirements. Doesn’t want, welcome to the zone.
    If you approach the conscripts from the Caucasus, then half of them will sit down.
    1. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 30 November 2012 21: 44
      +1
      Quote: bashir141
      If you approach the conscripts from the Caucasus, then half of them will sit down.

      And all sorts of committees of Dagestan mothers and numerous deputies and human rights activists will immediately conquer that they, as national minorities, are spread rot and oppressed and are not allowed to serve.
      http://cripo.com.ua/print.php?sect_id=10&aid=75557
  39. Zlyden.Zlo
    Zlyden.Zlo 30 November 2012 21: 45
    +1
    If officers are negligent in their duties, the personnel do not have authority ... Then we get such a mess. I served in the part where 50% were Dagestanis, of whom only two were shitty guys. The rest are quite adykat
    1. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 30 November 2012 22: 03
      +2
      Quote: Zlyden.Zlo
      He served in the part where 50% were Dagestanis, of whom only two were shitty guys. The rest are quite adykvatnye

      And all these 50% washed the floors in the barracks, scrubbed "glasses", really cleaned the area with a broom and a shovel, peeled potatoes at night in the dining room? Most likely the other 50% were doing this, and if they did, it was only to look.
    2. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 30 November 2012 22: 29
      +1
      Quote: Zlyden.Zlo
      If officers are negligent in their duties, there is no authority on the personnel ...

      And all the officers (for you "jackals") in the whole unit were not adequate, right? fool
      And adykvatnye, as I understand it, this is so that they "beat" you from morning until lights out in full and at night the teas are not allowed to "drive" and that everything is according to the charter. So, don't make people laugh.
      1. Zlyden.Zlo
        Zlyden.Zlo 1 December 2012 23: 17
        0
        Here you are mistaken. I was lucky with the officers and warrant officers. Because of their attitude to the service and everything was fine with us. (There was no wooden charter and there was normal service)
  40. 125rus
    125rus 1 December 2012 03: 46
    +4
    I have long served. He finished the service as a sergeant, commander of the department. Dagestanis also served in our unit. But never had any problems. Rather, a turn. There were problems with those who were called from Moscow.
    1. Zlyden.Zlo
      Zlyden.Zlo 1 December 2012 23: 19
      0
      in training there were 10 Muscovites. only one normally pulled the service. the rest of the wooden waist-high with ponte
    2. rexby63
      rexby63 2 December 2012 10: 03
      0
      Exactly. Who is really rotten, it's "maskvach"
  41. andrey903
    andrey903 1 December 2012 08: 37
    -1
    Too much time must be spent on their upbringing and training. And even if an unofficial ban on working in government agencies is necessary, nothing good will come of it
  42. SAVA555.IVANOV
    SAVA555.IVANOV 1 December 2012 13: 14
    -2
    Indeed, if everyone here is eager to be in the law enforcement agencies or units of the Ministry of Emergencies after army service
    "Garbage" - there were still not enough Dagestanis !!!!!! Here, their Slavs sell their people to be torn apart by any trash, and these generally go crazy from such power over the Russians. They cannot get used to society because of their stupidity, not understanding how normal people live. There were not enough disc dancers in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. They have stained themselves and now howl.
  43. skeptic
    skeptic 1 December 2012 16: 04
    +3
    Quote: SSR
    To me the gentlemen from the Mines of Oboronalkin .... hunting to say .. go down gentlemen to the ground and do not hide your head like ostriches in the sand ...
    1. Do Dagestan guys have a desire to serve? THERE IS.
    2. Once he expresses a desire, he must read the document at the military registration and enlistment office and sign in it that yes he AGREES,
    and the document says that he carries out all the orders of the senior in rank unquestioningly
    Three comments and he flies out of the Army without a warrior with a note in his passport that is not suitable for work in government agencies. as a default.
    For he gave his word .. do it. the guys in the Caucasus are smart too .. just the rules of the "Game" must be prescribed right away.
    And in general ... purely my personal opinion .. in the army .. do not keep those who do not want to serve ..

    I’ll add on my own - Russia needs to create Arctic brigades to protect the northern borders. Warriors with high physical and moral potential are needed there. This service is for real men, if the conscripts of the Caucasus really want to serve in the Russian Army, they will be able to bring concrete benefits, having proved their high spiritual level. Bilateral communication with the diasporas + cited above may show that the peoples of the Caucasus are able to become the new engine of the revival of Russia ... or its shame? .
  44. SAVA555.IVANOV
    SAVA555.IVANOV 1 December 2012 23: 04
    -1
    Quote: skeptic
    I’ll add on my own - Russia needs to create Arctic brigades to protect the northern borders

    Aha, the Arctic brigades consisting of Muslims !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????? And the enemies, too, "not bastardly" will put up Muslims too, but they are all brothers, at least so many say from Muslims. Outcome Russia will play the Arctic, they will hand over how to drink it !!!!!
    1. Zlyden.Zlo
      Zlyden.Zlo 1 December 2012 23: 21
      -1
      et you in vain. ...............................................
    2. Region65
      Region65 30 December 2012 09: 36
      0
      however, in the countries of the Middle East, Muslims cut each other only squeals are worth it :) they are also all sorts of shit - Sunites, Salafis, Wahhabis ... we still have Muslims are correct, normal, so the option))))))
  45. rexby63
    rexby63 2 December 2012 10: 05
    +4
    When can I finally read the article titled "Russians Want to Serve"?

    By the way, in my opinion, it is then that the problem with the Dagestanis will disappear by itself
  46. DuraLexSedLex.
    DuraLexSedLex. 2 December 2012 16: 49
    -2
    The way out is seen in one, let them serve at home and let their commanders be the same as Dagestanis, Avars, Ingush, etc. they are commanded ... they have there that day and night there is shooting and explosions. Let them sit there.
  47. kostello2004
    kostello2004 3 December 2012 10: 14
    -4
    Let the Dagestan boys serve, they know how to serve, not to be afraid of anything, not difficulties, not hardships, but to learn how to clean our floors and clean glasses, that's right. Strong serve. Weak-creepy
    1. SSR
      SSR 3 December 2012 15: 56
      +1
      Quote: kostello2004
      Strong serve. Weak-creepy

      in secret))) the more in the Army and Navy there will be high-tech weapons and fire control systems, etc. .. the more competent people will be needed .. Educated people
      in our company .. there were several guys from the outback, let's say so with the formation of straining ... and not only school but also parental ...
      So the two listened with their eyes open ... they asked on a broken line asking again ..... literally trying to absorb information ...
      and there were a few morons ... from entertainment:
      to whom the thread from the younger call to stick a needle ...
      or come up at night .. let a sleeping stream of gas from a lighter on inhale into the nose and then strike out with flint ...
      Everything .. his mosk is not capable of anything more .. and what for are they even in the army?)) I saw such moral freaks ... and these were the people whose parents were brought up with Soviet hardening.
      1. kostello2004
        kostello2004 3 December 2012 16: 12
        -2
        Soviet hardening is, of course, tin, but in the war the one who is not afraid to die wins, and ours cannot look Dagestanis in the face, darling
  48. kostello2004
    kostello2004 3 December 2012 15: 57
    -1
    what are the cons? Am I wrong? Where service is held in high esteem, even our vani run away from subpoenas, and the fact that 50 people keep a part means there is temperament and willpower for more than 1000 people who somehow want to protect their homeland, but cannot
  49. Megatron
    Megatron 4 December 2012 05: 04
    +1
    The problem is not in the Caucasians, but in the authorities, the absence of normal laws and the failure to enforce existing ones.
  50. Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 6 December 2012 04: 46
    +1
    Kazakhstan is often criticized for allegedly being pressed in the 90s. So - in Kazakhstan, everyone who vomits out is pressed. Who in 1991 smelled that the Kazakhs would die out without the Russians, they made it clear that it would be better for them to dump Podobor Pozdarov from the KZ.
    The Caucasians were also strained, but the Kazakhs made several physical remarks on several occasions (the events on the Mangyshlak Peninsula in 1989) and the large Caucasian diaspora bit their tongue there. In the Tselinograd region, the scale was smaller, there simply the Kazakh youth numbed the Chechen children who began to dig in (in the area of ​​several large Chechen villages), after which Chechen elders came and asked for forgiveness for the behavior of their youths.
    When the Politburo signed a resolution in 1979 in Moscow on the creation of German autonomy on the territory of the Kazakh SSR, the Kazakhs staged such a storm in Tselinograd that the Secretary General of the USSR had to backtrack and abandon this idea.
    In independent Kazakhstan, too, several times noisily put everyone in their place - (Kazakh-Uyghur disassembly, 2006, Almaty region), (Kazakh-Chechen disassembly, 2007, Almaty region), (Kazakh-Turkish disassembly, 2005, 2006, Atyrau region .).
    If we take the events in miniature, then the Kazakhs stupidly beat the faces of everyone who will show off in Kazakhstan, and they do not allow themselves concessions - the Kazakhs are really planted for such a scuffle, BUT! Nobody grumbles, because, in principle, everyone considers this more or less fair - the Kazakhs are happy that the rest of the ethnic groups in the country no longer allow themselves to be excreted, and the non-Kazakhs are happy that the Kazakh bothers are pressed to the fullest. Everyone should be on an equal footing.
    The Kazakh authorities did not allow Russian organizations at one time to create a Russian party in the country, but at the same time banned the creation of a Kazakh party after a short time. The meaning of the verdict of the authorities was as simple as 5 kopecks - there is no way to create ethnic "groupings". Not in crime, not in politics.
    As a result, in Kazakhstan, local Armenians get along with Azeris, Russians with Chechens, Jews with Muslims, Turks with Kurds. And sincerely. And even the newcomer guest workers, who are always whining in Russia, behave very obediently and disciplined in Kazakhstan (there is enough crime, but, like a gritsa, is within normal limits). And if suddenly someone is forgotten, then the Kazakhs will again knock on the head. A rough scheme, but it works.
    By the way, Kazakhstan is paying attention to Russian news, which mentions a showdown involving Russian Kazakhs. Apparently, in all cases, the Kazakhs clash with the Caucasians (usually Chechens) in Russia according to the same scenario - the Caucasians begin to show off and hurt the Kazakhs, and then the steppes will heartily mobilize the highlanders. And every time they prevail, judging by the reports of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation.
    When the Türks show off, they try not to offend the rest, and the Caucasian thinks that if the Kazakh does not go to him, then he is afraid.
    Well, the Russians really do not know how to fight back in a timely manner. Be it a street fight or a full-blown war. And they do not know how to understand other mentalities. The same Caucasians need a special approach. And this does not mean that we must bend under them. It is necessary to explain, it is necessary to talk. When verbally convincing a Caucasian that he is wrong (and you won’t show off yourself), he will sincerely respect you. For Caucasians, the logic is simple - either you are a friend / brother for life or a sworn enemy for life. Caucasians know how to value friendship, and this both the Kazakhs and the Russians need to learn from them. Well, if you look at him from the bottom, and at the same time you are afraid to repulse him, then of course the Caucasian will consider you a rag on which you can ride. Or look at him humanly or in the face give. And then neither fish nor meat.
    Z.Y. Well, the fact that Caucasians are dancing lezginka on the streets - let them dance. In our country, the stuffed animals are burned publicly at Shrovetide - and this does not offend anyone.
    1. SAVA555.IVANOV
      SAVA555.IVANOV 7 December 2012 23: 59
      0
      [media = http: //youtu.be/b9GB9S1h0FY]
      I remember Kazakhs approximately so, they are very good people !!!