When Lviv will be given to Warsaw

39
When Lviv will be given to Warsaw
Source: train-photo.ru


Help is never free


In capitalist countries, it is not customary to help just like that - Europe has long known this axiom. The notorious post-war "Marshall Plan" forever put the Old World at the service of the American establishment. They tried to do something similar with the Soviet Union, but the Kremlin leadership refused such a “gift” in time. Later, it was independence from the financial assistance of the United States that allowed the USSR to become a superpower. The reverse process, carried out under the sauce of "Bush's legs", brought Russia to the brink of collapse in the 90s.



Ukraine now receives billions, both in kind and in the form of technical assistance. The total debt already exceeds $150 billion. At the same time, the Kyiv regime is completely missing something valuable - the country is not able to pay its debts either in the present or in the future. Alternatively, the territory can be used to host NATO bases, but Russia's position on this issue is unequivocal. No one in the West would take risks so frankly. Supply Tanks and missiles are one thing, but stationing regular troops is quite another.

Ukraine does not have unique competencies in the production of critical equipment, like, for example, Taiwan. Zelensky’s team didn’t even try to make semiconductors, hence the notorious war between the West and Russia “until the last Ukrainian.” No one will feel sorry for human capital - in the eyes of Western leaders, this capital is of low quality. And it's not even about scarce chips, but about the purely agrarian profile of the state. In the XNUMXst century, cheap agricultural products are of interest only to third world countries - the "golden billion" is able to either feed itself or buy from anyone at exorbitant prices.

Therefore, the only thing Ukraine is capable of paying to Western creditors is cheap labor and territories. With guest workers made in Ukraine, everything is clear - even before the special operation they flooded Eastern Europe, and a year ago the flow of refugees provided the West with practically free labor. Germany, Italy, Spain, France and others provided unexpected guests with the lowest paid jobs, which were refused even by migrants from the east.

As a result, even in an optimistic scenario for Kyiv, Ukraine will inevitably lose the remnants of its “golden fund”. Some have perished and will perish in the east, some have left and will never return to their homeland. The rest of the territory will turn into a "gray zone", reminiscent of fragmented Yugoslavia.


Source: novorosinform.org

But there is another way out - to give part of the territory of western Ukraine to the thirsty Poles. This will allow you to pay off your debts in kind and get loans for the future. It so happened that it was Warsaw that began to play the most important role in the fate of the Kyiv regime. Starting from wild anti-Russian rhetoric and pumping work as a key military hub. And Poland begins to demand reciprocal moves from Ukraine. The role of a buffer against the imaginary Russian threat no longer suits anyone - tangible dividends are needed. In consonance with this, on April 5, Zelensky came to visit Duda in Warsaw. As always, everything was warm and oily, but some theses were voiced, especially interesting in this situation. The President of Ukraine, in particular, said:

“A meeting of neighbors, a meeting of allies, a meeting of partners, a meeting of friends. In the future, there will be no borders between our peoples - political, economic and - which is very important - historical».

The only thing missing was the mention of administrative boundaries.

It is still unknown what documents were signed in Warsaw, which gives rise to a lot of rumors. In the Polish segment of the information field, the idea of ​​the existence of protocols for the transfer of part of Ukraine to its western neighbor is being promoted. There is such a journalist, Mark Galas, who recently published his thoughts on the prospects for transferring the Eastern Outskirts back to Warsaw.

The logic is quite simple - Zelensky perfectly understands the impossibility of returning territories in the west of the country and is trying to sell part of his east to Poland. For debt, of course. In the first line - Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk and Ternopil as the most tasty parts of the old Eastern outskirts for Warsaw. At the same time, formally, the Poles have long been deeply integrated into Ukrainian reality. The President of Ukraine equalized the rights of citizens of his own country and Poland in May last year.

It is noteworthy that a similar step was not followed by Duda. Polish business, in turn, received significant preferences in the acquisition of Ukrainian enterprises.

Zelensky resists - Duda presses


Mark Galas in his articles speaks openly about the fantasies of every Polish government regarding "Poland from sea to sea". Immediately after February 24 last year, Warsaw took the first step and offered Kyiv unprecedented assistance in exchange for the return of Volyn, Rivne and Lvov. It was obviously about the entry of the Polish army into the territory of Ukraine as payment for services.

Zelensky then either relied on his own strength, or was afraid of Moscow's reaction, but did not accept the offer. He limited himself only to the launch of Poles in state and military structures. Again, this is the version of the events of the Pole Mark Galas, which, however, has many followers in Russia.

And now Zelensky tried to avoid a direct answer to the President of Poland about the status of Western Ukraine. It was when he announced the future blurring of the border between countries - by the way, he already declared this in the spring of last year. The future has already arrived, but the administrative boundaries are in place. Duda's patience is not unlimited, and we are seeing the first signs of pressure on the Kiev regime.

First, Poland expressed its desire to become a financial hub to pay for the restoration of Ukraine. The special operation is not over yet, and Warsaw is already dreaming of the reconstruction of the country, but that's not even the point. If Poland's Deputy Finance Minister Artur Sobon succeeds in accumulating a future fund, then this will be a powerful instrument of pressure on Kyiv. Sobon says:

“Just as Poland has fulfilled the role of a military hub, if we talk about military assistance to Ukraine, we would like it to serve as a financial hub through which funding for the restoration of Ukraine will flow.”

Great idea, I must say. Erdogan is doing something similar now, buying Russian oil and reselling it to third countries with a considerable margin. Only on banking services Warsaw will be able to make several hundred million dollars. At the same time, slowing down individual tranches for too intractable Ukrainians.


Secondly, recently Poland introduced a temporary ban on the import of Ukrainian grain, milk, eggs, meat and other food products. It happened almost immediately after Zelensky's visit to Warsaw. Friendly visit, according to the press release. Nothing personal, Mr. President, just business. The embargo will be in effect until June 30 and should protect local farmers from the dominance of cheap Ukrainian products.

No matter how the chairman of the Polish ruling party, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, justifies himself, this is a completely political action. According to the main statistical office of the country, in Poland now the monthly inflation is almost twenty percent. And there is no downward trend at all. First of all, food products are getting more expensive (by 24 percent), and continued supplies of cheap bread with meat from Ukraine could bring down the wave a little. But the cabinet of ministers there suddenly thought about the fate of their own farmers. The Hungarians also joined the ban.

Before us, right now, the Polish-Ukrainian fuss is unfolding around the fate of the western provinces. The Poles, after behind-the-scenes negotiations and blackmail, moved to action. The answer lies with Zelensky, but his room for maneuver is very limited.
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39 comments
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  1. +4
    April 20 2023 06: 19
    The Poles want EVERYTHING, not only eastern kresy. And this must be taken into account when planning our further actions.
    1. +10
      April 20 2023 06: 31
      When the Poles want everything, they often lose their statehood.

      Let them take Lvov along with Bandera.
      1. +2
        April 20 2023 06: 58
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        Let them take Lvov along with Bandera

        And together with Lviv, they will get hemorrhoids, toothache and much more ... wink
        1. +13
          April 20 2023 09: 26
          Calm, citizens, keep calm!
          In general, my advice to everyone (and above all to the author) is to stop thinking in stereotypes of "the times of Ochakov and the conquest of Crimea." In the 21st century, no one will pay off creditors with the territory of their own country (right, Dmitry Anatolyevich?), because. it's just not economically viable. And above all, for the creditors themselves.

          Understand that the land itself is an "asset" rather "problematic" and not always directly beneficial to the acquirer, because, no matter how strange it may sound, the land requires investment. And significant. That is why feudalism, as an economic formation and a mode of production relations, ultimately lost out to capitalism with its bourgeois logic of creating a product with high added value, capital accumulation, which is essentially extraterritorial in nature, and its expansion unlimited by anything other than the size of the land.

          Secondly, in the case of a forced or voluntary alienation of a territory, the issue always arises with the population living in this very territory, which, despite the place of residence, continues to remain citizens of their country, with all the rights arising from this status, incl. political. Yes, it is clear that the inhabitants of the Western regions of Ukraine are mainly the electorate of the main opponent of Vladimir Zelensky - Petro Poroshenko, but in the current conditions it is also a guaranteed reserve of the most ideological and motivated personnel, sharpened in direct opposition to "Russian expansion", and therefore making up most of the state Ukrainian foreign detachments. And this part of itself does not think of Poles at all. As a result, it is rather problematic to predict the behavior of these elements in the event that Banderstan passes under the direct jurisdiction of Poland, and without them it is highly likely that even if not the entire front, but some of its sections may crumble.

          Plus, let's see what really gives the acquisition of Lviv, Lutsk, Ivan-Frankivsk and Ternopil Warsaw? For example, does it get any significant geopolitical trump cards, such as access to the Black Sea coast? No, he doesn't. Does it get at its disposal lands rich in natural resources or developed industry? Again, no, it does not, because the West of Ukraine, unlike the industrial East and Center, is predominantly agrarian regions. Yes, in Soviet times there were a number of enterprises that carried out the final assembly of products, there was even a whole automobile plant that produced buses that were not bad at that time, but all this remained in the distant past. So why should Poland, which already has a good agricultural sector, which also periodically experiences problems with the sale of its products, tie additional ballast to itself? No, of course, maybe this is done intentionally in order to kill the main competitor of Polish farmers, but again, we recall the population of these regions, who are mainly employed in this very agricultural sector, which will hardly be happy with the fact that tomorrow they will simply be deprived of their livelihood. And the vector of Ukrainian farmers, unlike their Polish counterparts, has recently shifted south towards Turkey, which, due to cheap raw materials, solves the internal problem of curbing food inflation.

          Weigh these arguments and you will understand that Warsaw has no real economic reasons, except for the subjective desire to annoy Moscow. Of course, such a reason has the right to exist, but without being tied to specific economic calculations, it is not very productive and rather unprofitable. And yes, public politicians tend to take such a number of economically unreasonable steps, but only if they receive some image acquisitions in return, i.e. nevertheless, there is a certain degree, if not efficiency, then expediency in their actions. But what image gains, besides even more aggravation of relations with Moscow, does the annexation of the western regions of Ukraine bring to Warsaw? An additional growth of militaristic and revanchist sentiments inside the country? Completeness. We ourselves have provided them with more than enough fuel for this. Doesn't this mean that here the benefit is more than doubtful? What can not be said, for example, about the establishment of a Polish protectorate over the territories of Western Ukraine, including, as was correctly noted in the article itself, financial control. This step looks already much more thoughtful, balanced, and therefore - real, rather than the territorial losses so frightening for the domestic man in the street.
          1. +5
            April 20 2023 09: 35
            Weigh these arguments and you will understand

            Alas, the Poles have always acted extremely illogically and irrationally. Phantom popboles, due to their lost greatness, have always overpowered common sense. Therefore - from these you can expect any stupidity. And at any moment.
            1. +3
              April 20 2023 11: 12
              Therefore - from these you can expect any stupidity. And at any moment.

              I think, however, until the Ukrainian state is more or less stable, the annexation of Volyn will not happen. But if suddenly another buffer of state power suddenly forms in Ukraine - then it will be quite possible to expect the development of such a scenario, but for now there are no prerequisites for this - the fight against an external aggressor cements any society well, regardless of nationality.
            2. +7
              April 20 2023 12: 46
              Quote: paul3390
              Therefore - from these you can expect any stupidity. And at any moment.


              It is debatable ... from our point of view, the Poles are acting short-sighted / stupid - "illogical and irrational." They say where they climb, they forgot the history and how Poland was divided, etc. (everything like that).

              But if you take a serious look at the big picture, where did they go wrong? I don’t see this yet... on the contrary, they took advantage of our mistakes and are now trying to remake Ukraine and neighboring states for themselves). All the expenses that they now bear will pay off in the near future, because. according to their idea, neighboring states (Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltic states, etc.) should become a market for Polish goods, and these states should unite around Poland .... religion (Catholicism), Russophobia, education, etc. should give their fruit).

              Therefore, they do everything right, from the point of view of a predator who wants to catch a prey. And in Ukraine, they will not openly annex territories .... they will seize assets, buy up land, and even if they are lucky, they will get to the port infrastructure of Odessa and get access to the sea, and then they will supply their goods to the Middle East / Africa ... Moreover, Africa is a rather promising direction + a new sales market (Ukraine). Profit.
              1. +1
                April 20 2023 13: 40
                where did they go wrong?

                In the main. In order to. For the possession of Zapadenschina has not yet brought anyone to good. Although - by Poland itself too ..

                And what kind of goods does Poland have to sell them somewhere?
          2. +7
            April 20 2023 11: 43
            Quote: Dante
            Warsaw has no real economic grounds, except for the subjective desire to annoy Moscow

            Do you seriously think that Poles are driven by emotions? Do you seriously believe that the motives of an eccentric woman are characteristic of the statesmen of Poland? Have you heard of restitution? Take an interest in this question. As for the local Bandera people, the Poles have bent them so much with the help of digital technologies that no Orwell ever dreamed of. The rest of the residents will get what they wanted - visa-free and lacy panties. Set one against the other - everyone will be happy. Will the Poles' claims to Belarus disappear after this? Of course not. But this can only speed up the integration of Belarus into Russia, where it will be more secure.
          3. +1
            April 23 2023 15: 34
            Quote: Dante
            Calm, citizens, keep calm!

            good
            Quote: Dante
            Understand that the land itself is an "asset" rather "problematic" and not always directly beneficial to the acquirer, because, no matter how strange it may sound, the land requires investment.

            A true statement, but it is still more profitable to invest in your own land than in someone else's. At least calmer, Abramovich with his Guinean bauxites will not let you lie.
            Quote: Dante
            Secondly, in the case of a forced or voluntary alienation of a territory, the issue always arises with the population living in this very territory, which, despite the place of residence, continues to remain citizens of their country, with all the rights arising from this status, incl. political.

            If the Russians in the Baltics have come to terms with the status of non-citizens, despite the common border in the Russian state of Russia, then the Westerners have no one to count on at all. They will let you breathe for free, it's already good. This is an exaggeration, of course, but, it seems to me, not a very big one.
            Quote: Dante
            Plus, let's see what really gives the acquisition of Lviv, Lutsk, Ivan-Frankivsk and Ternopil Warsaw? For example, does it get any significant geopolitical trump cards, such as access to the Black Sea coast? No, he doesn't.

            Plus, it really doesn't. And that means it will not stop there, because the Polish minimum is from sea to sea.
            Quote: Dante
            Does it get at its disposal lands rich in natural resources or developed industry? Again, no

            And yes, it does. Even from our point of view, the bonuses are not bad, and even from the Polish one!
            1. The western oil and gas region of Ukraine, despite the decent depletion of reserves, produces almost as much gas as in the whole of Poland. By the way, the Poles are already conducting geological exploration there.
            2. Lviv-Volyn coal basin. Here everything is more modest, production, not to lie, 10-20% of the Polish, but nonetheless.
            3. Precarpathian potassium-bearing basin. These are potash fertilizers, for independence from Russia in the matter of fertilizers, salt should be enough.
            in addition, there are reserves of sulfur, cinnabar, exploration and production of polymetallic and many other deposits is possible. The Carpathians are the last forest in Europe. Well, the agricultural component should not be belittled.
            So, Warsaw has real economic reasons to annoy Moscow.
            However, the annexation of part of Ukraine by Poland is possible only with the recognition of the territorial acquisitions of Russia ...
        2. +3
          April 20 2023 13: 17
          The logic is pretty straightforward.

          It doesn't matter what the Poles want, but let's see if the division of Ukraine is beneficial for the Americans? The answer is NO.
      2. +1
        April 20 2023 10: 53
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        When the Poles want everything, they often lose their statehood.

        Let them take Lvov along with Bandera.

        But the military bases there should not be NATO, but the Russian Federation at the expense of taxes from the local population. And with the economy - let the badges invest themselves.
    2. +1
      April 20 2023 10: 50
      Quote from: dmi.pris1
      The Poles want EVERYTHING, not just oriental kresy.

      No. They only want to Zbruch. And from may to may.
    3. +1
      April 23 2023 15: 23
      And this must be taken into account when planning our further actions.


      In their official documents, it is indicated that the DPR is the successor of the DKR, remember that in 1918 the republic was like that. This is so about our further actions. . . . .
  2. +2
    April 20 2023 06: 22
    The total debt already exceeds $150 billion.
    And if you carefully calculate, then probably all the same it will be more. What remains of the former Ukraine will still have to pay off its debts to creditors. And here, of course, as the main option - the territory of Western Ukraine. But this is for Poland, Hungary and Romania, who openly claim someone (Poland), and someone is not so persistent, for part of the territories that they consider their own. And the question arises, what will the Anglo-Saxons get? Is it possible to place your bases in the new Polish territories or is there something else in stock? Poland squeezes out of the conflict all possible preferences for itself. There is not enough weapons hub, I also want to distribute the financial flows planned for the "restoration" of Ukraine. Where will the money go? Not for the restoration of the Donbass and new Russian territories. The infrastructure of Western Ukraine was practically not affected by the conflict, so what are they going to "restore?"
    1. +4
      April 20 2023 06: 26
      Quote: rotmistr60
      What remains of the former Ukraine will still have to pay off its debts to creditors.

      Yeah. But they believe that Russia will pay.
      1. +1
        April 20 2023 14: 54
        They don't think otherwise. If the remnants of Ukraine become part of the Russian Federation, then creditors will quite reasonably demand debts from Russia: if it is now yours, then the debts are now yours as well. Well, if a new "Minsk" takes place (on conditions favorable to the West), then the debts will be collected from the Russian Federation. In order, taxi, indemnities. In reality, now there is nothing to pay Ukraine with, except to sell the black soil for export, and the remaining territories - for the disposal of nuclear waste?
        1. +1
          April 20 2023 21: 22
          Quote: Frank Muller
          They don't think otherwise. If the remnants of Ukraine become part of the Russian Federation, then creditors will quite reasonably demand debts from Russia: if it is now yours, then the debts are now yours as well. Well, if a new "Minsk" takes place (on conditions favorable to the West), then the debts will be collected from the Russian Federation. In order, taxi, indemnities. In reality, now there is nothing to pay Ukraine with, except to sell the black soil for export, and the remaining territories - for the disposal of nuclear waste?

          If the Foreign Ministry is completely idiotic, then maybe it will turn out that way. But I hope not
    2. +4
      April 20 2023 11: 47
      Quote: rotmistr60
      What remains of the former Ukraine will still have to pay off its debts to creditors.

      It will not be necessary if there is nothing left of Ukraine. Even words like that. Only memories. This is the only correct way out in this situation. Only separate areas with their historically established geographical names.
  3. 0
    April 20 2023 06: 32
    Some decadent moods, what kind of Poland, what debts - what are you talking about ?!
    "Only one must remain!" - Ukraine will not be on the political map of the world, and, accordingly, no one will pay its debts!
    1. +4
      April 20 2023 06: 38
      Quote: 75Sergey
      Ukraine will not be on the political map of the world,

      Sure? But I'm not at all sure. Ukraine resists. Hard.
      1. +3
        April 20 2023 07: 25
        Ukraine resists. Hard.

        Resists the Russian army

        Let them try to put up the same resistance to NATO armies. Dill will be broken in a couple of days
  4. +2
    April 20 2023 07: 18
    They were probably discussing a backup plan. If the military forces of Russia take Kiev and go further, then it is possible to officially transfer the west of Ukraine to Poland, and if not, then the creeping occupation will be enough, slowly the Poles will penetrate into all branches of government and municipalities and will calmly submit to Warsaw, although the jure will be part of Ukraine. IMHO.
  5. +4
    April 20 2023 07: 29
    It will be like in a fairy tale. The old woman will remain in front of a broken trough. And the old man, with a dugout, a quarrelsome old woman and a broken trough.
  6. -2
    April 20 2023 09: 14
    The Poles do not need banderized Volhynia and Galicia. But Odessa, Krivoy Rog, 3 nuclear power plants, this is already a valuable dowry, and the Russian establishment has already hinted that it does not mind. From mod to mod, that's what psheks need. Here, one snag without the Romanians will not work, and in Bucaresti they are also greedy. The key role will be played by the position of the city behind the puddle, whether they will give a label to the Commonwealth is a question.
    Centerum censo Washingtonium delendam esse
  7. +3
    April 20 2023 09: 46
    This is possible if Ukraine begins to fall apart and its army is defeated and the front crumbles, then the Poles can go to take some areas for themselves. But so far this has not been seen in any way. And I see no point in discussing.
    1. +2
      April 20 2023 12: 48
      Voooot! And no more comments are needed. hi
  8. +2
    April 20 2023 11: 26
    Well, let Lvov go to Poland. The Poles will quickly explain to them who Bandera is. Yes, and the Russian Federation will be calmer without this Western hemorrhoids ...
  9. +4
    April 20 2023 15: 21
    When will Lviv come under Polish jurisdiction? Probably, only when the "Westerners" decide that for them the "Poles" are still better than the "Muscovites". This is possible only if the RF Armed Forces come close to their borders. But such a thing, in the current circumstances, is unlikely (if at all possible in the future), if we leave the cheers - patriotic urges. Economically and financially, Warsaw is already beginning to worship in Lvov. Moreover, without any tanks, airplanes and machine guns. It is easier to seize a beggarly and bankrupt state than to subdue it with the power of one's army.
  10. +3
    April 20 2023 16: 59
    Zelensky is well aware of the impossibility of returning territories in the west of the country and is trying to sell part of his east to Poland

    The author has problems with geography.
  11. +2
    April 20 2023 21: 16
    The author has problems with understanding where the west is and where the east is, he even stopped reading. And it's so clear
  12. +1
    April 21 2023 06: 08
    Dante (Kirill) explained in detail why there would be no annexation of the territory of Ukraine by Poland. In this regard, I ask Yevgeny Fedorov either here in the comments or in another article to write at least an approximate date "When Lviv will be given to Warsaw", so that after this date one can call him a dreamer, and stop taking his expert assessments seriously
  13. +1
    April 21 2023 16: 23
    Let me remind you that this is another time when Poland annexes Lviv. Last year we conquered this city probably 5 times...
  14. +2
    April 22 2023 12: 41
    This will never happen, since this territory is included in the historical geopolitical interests of Russia, and if some kind of MRA descends into these territories, then it will remain there to replenish with black soil! First, we will plow up all these border lands with bombs along the border, so that it would be repulsive to the enemies and we will grab others, after all, Warsaw was also Russian.
  15. +1
    April 25 2023 00: 00
    Evgeny Fedorov!
    From your text...

    The logic is quite unpretentious - Zelensky perfectly understands the impossibility of returning territories in the west of the country and is trying to sell part of his east to Poland. For debt, of course. In the first line - Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk and Ternopil as the most tasty parts of the old Eastern outskirts for Warsaw.

    First of all, food prices rise (by 24 percent)

    Is it necessary to read what I managed to write? We cannot give up territories in the West, then we will give up the eastern ones: Lvov, Chernopil, Ivanov Frankovsk... Are they eastern? Yes? Why check how the compass turned, why check 24 percent.
    We publish. And there will be VO praise and monetary allowance to the author.
  16. +1
    April 25 2023 15: 51
    What is the significance of the gentlemen's wet dreams? /sincerely perplexed/

    The Poles, in principle, by nature, cannot own the Empire. All their attempts to create the Polish Empire can only end with another division of the Commonwealth. Nothing has happened in the last 80 years that could change the end result of such attempts.
  17. 0
    April 26 2023 19: 49
    Duck news - on the anniversary of the "Volyn Massacre" all Lviv schoolchildren will be forced to learn the Polish anthem
  18. 0
    4 May 2023 12: 17
    Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, Ternopil regions should be part of Russia. Poland, in the event of its next "show off", subject to Section IV with the annexation of its territory, as districts, to the Kaliningrad region, and give the Germans that part of it that I.V. presented to Poland. Stalin ..... True, serious political will and Stalinist determination are needed without any "red lines" and regular "concerns" .... Something like that.
  19. 0
    4 May 2023 22: 34
    It really reminds me of Munich in 1938 and the surrender of the Sudetenland. France and England pushed us to this. Volyn (Lviv). I think it will be the turn of Romania and Hungary, and they will try to get their territory within the pre-1918 borders. It will be a tragedy among the peoples of Central Europe. am

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