Military Review

American ekranoplan. Big bummer

114
American ekranoplan. Big bummer

Some time ago, an article was published on the Military Review website about obvious problems and technical difficulties that arise when creating devices that use a screen effect. In the hot discussion that broke out, the name “Pelican”, an unfulfilled project of the Boeing corporation to create a super-heavy military-transport airplane, was resumed. It should be noted that, taking into account the paradoxical love of the inhabitants of the former USSR for these strange half-ships and half airplanes, any mention of foreign developments in the field of creating an ekranoplane causes a lively interest and desire to force their own development in this direction, even to the detriment of all other programs of the military-industrial complex. Russians definitely like WIGs, and nothing can be done about it.


Pioneers

In 1965, the popular British edition of the Janes Intelligence Review published sensational shots of an unusually large-sized aircraft floating above the sea. The attached article reported on the "Caspian Sea Monster." For such an emotional nickname lurked hidden admiration for the Soviet machine.

Alas, Soviet experts who watched the tests of the “monster” with their own eyes, and not with the help of spy satellite cameras, were disappointed with the capabilities of the giant KM (“model ship”) ekranoplan. The “Caspian Monster” devoured fuel like a devil (only 30 tons of kerosene were required for dispersal), and its speed, flight range and efficiency were several times lower than that of a conventional aircraft. In such conditions, the carrying capacity of the “monster” (200 tons - not so much) did not matter - it was easier, cheaper and faster to make 2-3 transport flights aviation. And the very crazy look of the "Caspian Monster", with engines sticking out from everywhere, made us think about the meaning of this design. It was not possible to reduce the number of engines by increasing their power - the chief designer Rostislav Alekseev already used the most powerful engines: ten turbojet RD-7s from the supersonic Tu-22 bomber! It is easy to imagine what kind of technical risks such a design was fraught with.

However, this has already been mentioned many times, a critical flaw is inherent in the principle of an ekranoplan: to create an “air cushion”, the flight height is less than the aerodynamic chord of the wing of the aircraft (in other words, less than the wing width). just a few meters away. Normal atmospheric pressure at sea level 760 mmHg. column, at a height of 10 000 meters, it is reduced to 200 mm. Hg the pillar is the whole answer: a fast-moving airplane flies in discharged layers of the atmosphere, and an ekranoplan hung with a dozen engines, howling and crashing through the densest air near the Earth's surface, while constantly lacking traction.

But in general, the idea seemed interesting - in the 90-ies of the TsKB im. R.E. Alekseeva was visited by an American delegation led by aircraft designer Burt Rutan, a renowned expert in the field of non-traditional aircraft circuits. The result was not long in coming: in 2002, Boeing experts announced a project for the Pelican-ULTRA super heavyweight military transport airplane.

Seventeen "Abrams" for one flight

The super heavy transport vehicle with a maximum take-off weight of 2700 tons would have to dramatically increase the mobility of the American army on a global scale.


When discussing the Pelican project, the most common opinion is the unique capabilities of such machines during landing operations. WIG can take on board up to 17 main combat tanks M1 "Abrams" and deliver armored vehicles to anywhere in the world at a speed of 250 knots (460 km / h) - tell me, which of the modern ships can provide such incredible performance? The flight range of 16 - 18 thousand kilometers, coupled with the lack of need for airfields (under the wing of an ekranoplane there is always an endless runway of sea water, right?) And the ability to quickly unload on an unequipped coast - all this gives an advantage in deployment speed and tactical surprise, expanding the sector to the limit possible landing.

... The salty sea without an edge without a bottom! But the shore will glimpse us in the distance, the naval assault ships are coming! - difficult to detect with ekranoplans * whirl around the enemy shore, behind the stern the sea is boiling from shells, but late - the riddled cars, raising clouds of wet sand and pebbles, crash down onto the coast with a crash, a steel avalanche of armored vehicles and black jackets lash out from their depths.
A tank is not only the best remedy for traffic jams, armored vehicles are the main force in land battles. Unfortunately, tanks are becoming formidable. weaponsIt is only when they feel solid ground under the caterpillars - in the open sea they are only a pile of iron with negative buoyancy, which should be unloaded as soon as possible to the shore.
And so, on the beach, the remains of ekranoplans are burning down, but now it no longer matters - the tanks were successfully delivered to the bridgehead.
* Suppose that we are dealing with Papuans who do not have DRLO aircraft

I will disappoint the reader. History About dashing landing on the enemy coast - just a figment of imagination. The Pelican was never planned to be used as an amphibious vehicle and could not be in principle. This is a pure transport vehicle. You may be surprised, but the American “super-ekranoplan” could not even land on the water surface! The landing system of 38 pairs of wheels finally convinces us that a well-equipped aerodrome with a long runway was needed to base the Pelican, because Such a chassis design makes it impossible to quickly break off and climb - the Pelican had to smoothly take off and land on a very gentle glide path, like some B-52 bomber.

Passion on the project "Pelican"

Americans knew about the main contradiction in creating an airplane: all the benefits achieved by increasing the lift force are spent on overcoming the monstrous air resistance at low altitude. However, the engineers of Boeing hoped that by correcting some, in their opinion, errors in the design of Soviet ekranoplans, and using the most modern technologies, they would be able to create an efficient vehicle - the additional lift from the air screen would exceed all negative factors.

Of course, the Americans didn’t have any special illusions - it was already clear from the outset that, given that minimal benefit, the ground effect vehicle would have an advantage over the plane only on ultra-long routes (more than 11 thousand kilometers). Running a little ahead, I will say that even this was not achieved.

First of all, the engineers of the Boeing completely abandoned the sea-based - given the size of the Pelican, an attempt to take off from the surface of the water turned into insanity. Try to accelerate a real ship with a draft of several meters up to the speed of 150 knots (the Pelican’s full displacement exceeded the “Watching Corvette" displacement!) - what should be the required power of the power plant to overcome the enormous resistance of water, waves and the force of water "sticking" to the hull ?!
The best project was recognized as the "ground" ground-wing vehicle, taking off only from airfields. In addition to reducing the required power of the engines, this allowed engineers to bypass many of the design difficulties associated with the maintenance of marine operations. The construction of the machine was facilitated, in order to save weight, the cargo compartment was made unsealed.

And then began a major problem. First of all - what power plant is able to move from the place of this monster? Max. the Pelican's take-off weight is 4,5 times as large as that of the largest aircraft in the history of the An-225 Mriya (2700 versus 640 tons). Antonov needed a 6 jet engine ... would it really need an 24?
Boeing engineers planned to install eight incredible turboprop engines based on the LM6000 gas turbine unit with an 30-40 thousand hp capacity on the Pelikan. each! Placed in pairs in four fairing nacelles, they rotated 4 pairs of cyclopean propellers with a diameter of 15 meters. Any investor would probably be wary of hearing such numbers - it’s enough to estimate the cost and laboriousness of servicing a propeller, the size of a five-story house.

As the project worked out, other shortcomings surfaced - it turned out that there were no airfields suitable for home “miracle” with a wingspan of 190 meters. We had to install a wing folding mechanism - the dimensions were reduced to 120 m. For comparison: the wing span of the huge B-52 bomber is 53 m, well, the world record holder in aviation is the An-225 "Antonova" as much as 88 m!

Those. it was clear to any more or less literate person that the Pelican project is a dead number. After the publication of the first characteristics of the miracle ship, the management of Boeing in 2003 dispersed the “initiative group” of WIG fans, and the research division of Boeing Phantom Works switched to developing the concept of the sixth generation fighter. It should be noted that Phantom Works engineers were always entrusted with the most “inadequate” projects, since this department was not engaged in the construction of real aircraft; This is just a scientific unit focused on finding promising technical solutions for the aerospace industry.
Well, the American creators of WIG, like their Soviet counterparts, came to a logical final. Mother Nature can not be deceived.

Sea cruises

How now the poor American marines will fight without WIG? Yes, as usual - for the delivery of expeditionary forces to foreign shores are used transport command shipping.

Here, for example, a series of high-speed military vehicles such as "Algol": 55 000 tons of total displacement, max. node 33 speed (60 km / h). Hooray! - WIG supporters will be delighted, - the ship is 8 times slower than that of an WIG! True, but at the same time, the Algol load capacity is more than 25 times. The cost of the operating costs of a ship and a ground-wing vehicle is not at all comparable - sea transport has at all times been the cheapest means of delivery.

High-speed transport "Regul". All 8 ships of the Algol type are named after the brightest stars (Capella, Altair, Antares ...)

During the transfer of troops to the Persian Gulf, huge transports could take on the Abrams 183 tank, 46 trailers with 20-foot containers, 1 million liters of drinking water and several million liters of fuel and lubricants. It is simply insulting to compare an ekranoplan with “Algol”.

By the way, Algol military transports are by no means ultramodern ships - their age has long exceeded 40 years. Just an old Dutch container ship that underwent a deep modernization in the 80s. The shipping team often uses this technique - for example, in the early 2000s the high-speed transport Lance Corporal Roy Vit, the former gas turbine ship of the Black Sea, came into operation fleet type "Captain Smirnov."

But lovers of WIG hardly convince these simple truths ...

When there are no other excuses, the last argument is used: an ekranoplan can be useful in extreme situations - the cruising speed of an ekranoplan is 8 times higher than that of the fastest military vehicles. So what? In a transport plane, the speed is higher by 15 times, while the cost of the flight is lower. The conclusion is obvious.

Very often the opinion sounds: “Ekranoplan is not a ship or a plane, therefore they cannot be compared.” You can compare and even need. The ekranoplan tries to duplicate the tasks of naval and aviation equipment and, it must be admitted, it turns out badly for him.
Critics of the construction of "half-ships and half-planes" are often accused of negative rhetoric and the absence of any constructive proposals. This is not true: every time I call on WIG fans to name at least one distinct advantage of this type of technology and the possible scope of its application.

Ekranoplans can not be used as vehicles: where speed is required, aviation is working, and for the delivery of large consignments, sea transport is better managed. However, you should not discount aviation's carrying capacity - heavy transport aircraft An-124 Ruslan, C-5 Galaxy and C-17 Glomaster easily lift the 1-2 main battle tanks and, if necessary, are able to deliver the grouping in a short time from 50-100 tanks to any corner of the world.

An-124 "Ruslan". In 1985, he set a record by lifting 171 a ton of cargo to 11 kilometers in height. In 1998, he set another incredible record - he transported a steam turbine of 132 mass from Düsseldorf (Germany) to Santiago (Chile). Used in the Persian Gulf War, delivering Patriot to the combat zone and other emergency equipment.

The combat use of WIG raises more questions than answers. The ekranoplan is bad in the role of a rocket carrier - it is several times inferior to a combat aircraft in speed and maneuverability, and, unlike a ship, it does not have any defensive means (it’s impossible to install them - the ekranoplan will simply not be able to take off). In such conditions, the speed of 400-500 km / h does not really matter anymore - enemy aircraft will quickly detect and sink a slow-moving unarmed target.

The amphibious capabilities of an airplane are clearly visible on the example of the Pelikan and Orlyonok projects. The first carried a lot of tanks, but could not land on an unequipped coast. The second was unpretentious when choosing seats, but could not even lift one tank.

The most meaningless proposal - the sea wig "Rescuer". Flying at a height of several meters at high speed, he sees nothing further than his nose. "Rescuer" simply will not find those in distress.

By the way, an interesting fact: the Eaglet "Orlyonok" and the old An-12 transport aircraft had an equal payload (20 tons). The transport aircraft surpassed the Orlyonka in cruising speed (350 versus 650 km / h) and flight range (1500 km versus 4500 km). At the same time, 12 thousand liters of kerosene splashed in An-18 fuel tanks, and 28 thousand liters were poured into EK tanks!
Well, who needs such an unprofitable vehicle?
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  1. Avenich
    Avenich 28 November 2012 08: 06 New
    +23
    Dear! I'm here, excuse me, a beginner, but as far as I could understand there is a steady tendency to prove that the ekranoplan is a dead end branch of the development of technology. Moreover, you’ll excuse me, in the same way, i.e. according to the principle “why the hell do we need it”, as Sikorsky’s helicopter, transistors, computers, flights into space (including to other planets) used to be “rotten”. Of course, “The Cosmic Monster” sounds intimidating, but this is only the NATO name for the WIG KM. The abbreviation "ship mock-up." It existed in one instance, initially distanced itself as an experimental one. According to him alone to judge the impasse, sorry a little strange. As you know, the stealth dead-end technology has gone into series and there are probably a huge number of supporters who will not agree with me motivating "that the Americans are building."
    As far as I know, ekranoplanes are being built around the world to a fair extent in Australia, and in China, and in Canada. Hyper, and super, and mega among them, of course, are not, but ekranoplanostroenie develops quite in such an evolutionary way. And most importantly, unlike, for example, a traditional ICE, ekranoplanes and ekranoleta have prospects. As for computer modeling, there is such a bike: When simulating a round-the-world flight with supersonic sound, it turned out that in real flight, flying over a certain meridian, the plane would inevitably turn upside down.
    1. Ilyukha
      Ilyukha 28 November 2012 08: 40 New
      -2
      Great, competent article.
      The economic inexpediency of large ekranoplanes has been proven for a long time, many experimental machines have been built.
      The combat stability of the "Caspian monsters" is extremely small, since they essentially cannot maneuver, neither in the horizontal, nor even in the vertical plane. Any jet subsonic aircraft, up to the TCB, can catch and shoot.
      The Soviet military-industrial complex did not need funds, so it could afford such "show cars"
      And small ekranoplanes are produced, and they occupy the same transport niche as boats on an air cushion, or boats with an air propeller, i.e. a rare technique, for lovers))
      1. Avenich
        Avenich 28 November 2012 09: 16 New
        +2
        Then let's go from the other end. But what about the Spruce Goose? An aircraft that did not fly like an airplane, but flew like an ekranoplan?
        1. Ilyukha
          Ilyukha 28 November 2012 13: 12 New
          0
          Pelican is "Spruce Goose-2"! The first one flew to the museum, the second - does not fly further than the Internet.
          1. Avenich
            Avenich 28 November 2012 13: 59 New
            +1
            No matter where he flew away. He just flew there on the screen, and not at an altitude of ten kilometers. So the screen provided the flight "goose". Here you have the whole theory. We make a lighter aircraft, load it beyond measure, i.e. we return it to a goose situation and ... the carrying capacity is higher.
      2. Zabvo
        Zabvo 9 December 2012 18: 11 New
        +1
        Do you understand the original concept of ekranoplan? request . They were developed as carriers of anti-ship missiles. And only then, as a quick delivery of troops to Alaska and the western coast of the Americans. Well, and about its low maneuverability, doubts are big, since the weight after launching the RCC will decrease by a lot, therefore, at the same speeds maneuverability will improve. If not right, challenge. smile
    2. Volkhov
      Volkhov 28 November 2012 08: 46 New
      +9
      Just because of the military, with their ambitions, the ekranoplanes oversized and imposed too high a speed - a promising plywood model for smugglers and collective farmers with a speed of 120 - 150 and the ability to overcome the coastal cliff.
      When the border guards begin to bite their elbows, the point of view will change. The rural workers of South America have learned to build small submarines and base them in rivers. At the time of Alekseev, the plywood model was banned due to the "advantages" of the collective farm system, and now the collapse of the army and the care of business officials can make direct cross-border operations attractive for the development of small business and local government.
      The best weather for flying is cloudy to 50 or fog, when the boat does not catch up and the helicopter does not see, the best place is where the locators went to the colorimeter.
      1. Santa Fe
        28 November 2012 20: 16 New
        -3
        Quote: Volkhov
        The best weather for flying is cloudy to 50 or fog, when the boat does not catch up and the helicopter does not see, the best place is where the locators went to the colorimeter.


        So you crash in the fog at a speed of 120 km / h
        1. Volkhov
          Volkhov 28 November 2012 23: 05 New
          +1
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          So you crash in the fog at a speed of 120 km / h


          Rather, the neighbors will lay, and the weather and driving mode can be chosen.
          The problems of do-it-yourselfers are mainly with the authorities and complaints, then the accident.
    3. Vadivak
      Vadivak 28 November 2012 09: 02 New
      +13
      Quote: Avenich
      There is a steady tendency to prove that the ekranoplan is a dead end branch of technological development.


      Well, he doesn’t like ekranoplanes, but meanwhile the fuel consumption of such ekranoplanes is almost like that of minibuses

      Maximum speed: 250 km / h (screen)
      Engines: Rotax 912, 100 hp, 2pcs.
      Fuel consumption: 20-30 l / h (screen)
      Take-off wave height: up to 0,5 m
      1. Santa Fe
        28 November 2012 12: 52 New
        -5
        Quote: Vadivak
        Maximum speed: 250 km / h (screen)
        Engines: Rotax 912, 100 hp, 2pcs.
        Fuel consumption: 20-30 l / h (screen)
        Take-off wave height: up to 0,5 m


        In flight, on the screen 20-30 l .. And on takeoff, he will burn half a tank.
        1. sniper
          sniper 28 November 2012 13: 21 New
          +8
          SWEET_SIXTEEN, They have a take-off speed of 50 km / h, so it takes off in a couple of minutes, then even pouring fuel, half the tank doesn’t work out well ...
        2. Dikremnij
          Dikremnij 28 November 2012 21: 01 New
          0
          Let's not forget yet that the fuel consumption in those characteristics is always less than what we have in reality, all designers have always sinned. Who has his car will agree with me.
    4. urzul
      urzul 28 November 2012 10: 03 New
      +1
      The ekranoplans are not limited to the Caspian monster; in our city, ekranoplans for 2-10 people are still being produced for private traders. But even they are not in special demand.
      Who cares about the link to the manufacturer’s website http://www.attk.ru/Rus/glavn/index.htm
      1. Santa Fe
        28 November 2012 12: 54 New
        -5
        Quote: urzul
        in our city still produce ekranoplanes for 2-10 people for private traders. But even they are not in special demand.


        Naturally, who dares to ride at speeds under 200 km / h at an altitude of 1 meter? The first snag sticking out of the water will be the last
        1. sniper
          sniper 28 November 2012 13: 24 New
          +19
          And on the planing motor boat? And hydrofoil? My God, there are only suicides around ....
          1. Santa Fe
            28 November 2012 14: 56 New
            0
            Quote: sniper
            And on the planing motor boat? And hydrofoil?

            It is important not to forget:
            1. glider and hydrofoil rarely move at speeds above 100 km / h and only on wide fairways
            2. Didn't you just suggest flying over the tundra and the Far North?
            1. sniper
              sniper 28 November 2012 19: 19 New
              +2
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Didn't you just suggest flying over the tundra and the Far North?

              Of course I am, but what is wrong with my proposal ??? Just what I said that the SEC flying into the fuel can suffer? Or if the front wheel of the car bursts at 250 km / h on the highway, then there will be nothing to bury ???
              Oleg, well, I did not know that you would be so offended by the fact that I consider the ekranoplanes quite relevant ... Purely out of respect for you, I would not post ...
              1. Santa Fe
                28 November 2012 23: 57 New
                0
                Quote: sniper
                Oleg, well, I did not know that you would be so offended by the fact that I consider the ekranoplanes quite relevant ... Purely out of respect for you, I would not post ...

                What insults can be? request
                Regular discussion
                1. sniper
                  sniper 29 November 2012 00: 03 New
                  +1
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  Regular discussion

                  Then drinks ?? laughing
              2. sso-xnumx
                sso-xnumx 1 August 2017 23: 47 New
                0
                Have you personally seen at least one of the bogeyman with your own eyes?
            2. yehat
              yehat 10 August 2018 11: 39 New
              0
              there probably some mix between the air cushion and the ekranoplan would be effective
        2. postman
          postman 28 November 2012 15: 09 New
          0
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          You will probably be surprised, but the American "super-ekranoplan" could not even land on the water surface!

          Oleg, most likely he could, for this he has such contours.
          But he could not take off (accelerate) in this design, i.e. it was necessary to "prepare" the airfield, as in the war on Timkh, with Japan. Bulldozers and experience are .....
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Try to disperse a real ship with a draft of several meters to a speed of 150 knots

          Didn’t you really work out the option of gliding (hydrofoils "Comet", "Rocket", retractable?
          In my opinion, this would solve the problem! No?

          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          And then major problems began.
          For him, the biggest problem is maneuver (turn), I wonder how much the radius will be needed at a speed of 500 km / h, so that such a flywheel would turn 90 or 180 degrees.

          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          created on the basis of the LM6000 gas turbine unit, with a capacity of 30-40 thousand hp each!

          Really did not consider nuclear power and electric motors: relatively cheap, there is a place, the range is limited only by the number of products for the crew.
          Did not consider?
          1. Santa Fe
            28 November 2012 16: 10 New
            0
            Quote: Postman
            Oleg, most likely he could, for this he has such contours.

            Which ones?
            Quote: Postman
            Bulldozers and experience are .....

            Bulldozers can not do. The heavy Pelican needed a quality long concrete
            Quote: Postman
            Did not really work out the option of gliding (hydrofoil applets "Comet", "Rocket"

            "Comet". In / and 23 tons. Max. speed 60-70 km / h (30-35 knots)
            "Pelican". In / and 1200 tons. Takeoff speed 150 knots (270 km / h)
            Quote: Postman
            Really did not consider nuclear power plants and electric motors: relatively cheap, there is a place

            Carry batteries and lead protection with you ???
            1. postman
              postman 28 November 2012 18: 50 New
              0
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Which ones?

              The fuselage (body) is the lower part. Sketchyk is rather weak, but it was implied I suppose (there are rudiments)

              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Bulldozers can not do

              it is possible without asphalt, enough for takeoff:
              bulldozer
              Perma-Zyme 11X Enzyme sprayer (37 lt of the preparation for the treatment of one kilometer of the roadway of the 8th width of 15 cm thick). -40C to + 40C.
              rink

              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              "Comet". In / and 23 tons. Max. speed 60-70 km / h (30-35 knots)

              They no longer needed: passenger, economy, handling.
              Here's the task: to pull the carcass out of the water (reduce resistance to movement), which will help your own wings, and up to 260 km / h on hydrofoils, the speed is technically feasible.

              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Carry batteries and lead protection with you ???

              He already has batteries, and AIE - you can use a gas generator or a diesel engine.
              8 x 30-40 thousand hp not so much

              and something similar to the NK-14A.
              All in a modern design.

              They will carry the reactor and protection, but they will not carry fuel with them.
            2. yehat
              yehat 10 August 2018 11: 41 New
              0
              why batteries?
              electric motors are now just a way to transfer power not by the shaft, but by wire from the generator to the electric motor in the right place.
        3. 11Goor11
          11Goor11 29 November 2012 04: 16 New
          0
          SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Naturally, who dares to ride at speeds under 200 km / h at an altitude of 1 meter? The first snag sticking out of the water will be the last


          What did you say about the width of the wing?
        4. sso-xnumx
          sso-xnumx 1 August 2017 23: 45 New
          0
          I apologize for the modest question, but where and on which river did you meet driftwood sticking out of the water to a height of 1 meter?
          1. yehat
            yehat 10 August 2018 11: 43 New
            0
            there are enough obstacles on the rivers - from the lost barge to the shallows and the turn of the river bed.
            I'm not even sure that the Yenisei and Volga are suitable for a large ekranoplan.
    5. YARY
      YARY 28 November 2012 14: 02 New
      +6
      AUTHOR ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!
      HOW AND DESTROYERS -
      MARINE
      Fleet
      and much more in the time of Khrushchev!
      When are they already beginning to really plant for such wrecking ?????
      1. Santa Fe
        28 November 2012 14: 19 New
        +4
        Sister, bobbler in the 6-th chamber
        1. Kars
          Kars 28 November 2012 14: 28 New
          +3
          )))))))))))) I told you to write about tanks, and give me proofreading. And then vet and shoot)))))))))
          1. Santa Fe
            28 November 2012 14: 51 New
            0
            Did I ruin the chapel too? No, it's up to you in the fourteenth century laughing
          2. sso-xnumx
            sso-xnumx 1 August 2017 23: 48 New
            0
            Do not "come on", come on, from the word GIVE !!!
      2. postman
        postman 28 November 2012 16: 26 New
        +1
        YARYAUTHOR ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!

        I hope it was a joke ...
        PS. I’m not an author, otherwise they’ll shoot me ... hotly
        1. YARY
          YARY 28 November 2012 22: 26 New
          +6
          Uv Vasily
          All that is said in the article is leveling designed for profane people who do not get involved and who do not want to go into the depths of the issue!

          The beginning of work is 60 years !!! Half a century ago !!!!
          You can’t even compare the level of tools and the development of computer technology! Heaven and earth!
          But an ax can be compared and a steel ax is better than a stone ax, isn’t it? and if you look at the stone as a tool today? You can also say why you need it!
          In fact, I somehow somehow even recklessly explain all this. Since such thoughts should naturally appear in people with more or less developed intelligence.

          And the intrigues of the enemies who stole (yes yes yes yes !!!) but couldn’t create the Alekseevsky miracle are understandable!
          Are they afraid that the ekranoplan will revive the Russian genius !?
          What should they do then ?!
          So they try to tighten the undertakers, dullness and mediocrity are able only to ruin the thing !!!
          1. YARY
            YARY 28 November 2012 22: 45 New
            +2
            And I was "pleased" with reasoning about the high cost.
            Salag finished wrote not otherwise!
            This is military equipment and not a fishing layba or a clunker to the cottage !!!
            1. postman
              postman 28 November 2012 23: 24 New
              -1
              Quote: Ardent
              This is military equipment and not a fishing layba or a clunker to the cottage !!!

              This is clear. But now the budget is not rubber, but the people on average (100 rubles) a month do not want to live.
              tried chips, and "beautiful life."
              Like North Korea, it won’t work out.
              Therefore, either a debit with a loan, or as in the 90s, give Uncle Sam money so that we could cut our missiles (otherwise they cut it so much that we can’t protect it)
              The same buran: 400 (or 480) 000 000 000,00 rubles (those more or less full-bodied) - if I'm not mistaken.
              The commissar said NECESSARDS THEM, and for any money.
              Damn did not even really use the development
          2. postman
            postman 28 November 2012 23: 20 New
            0
            Quote: Ardent
            All that is said in the article is leveling designed for profane people who do not get involved and who do not want to go into the depths of the issue!

            Andrei, I do not think that the author set himself such a task.
            Just expressed his opinion, in an interesting simple way.
            Well, he pinched ekranoplan.
            But this does not mean that he
            Quote: Ardent
            AUTHOR ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!

            There we have in the Moscow Region, the agricultural industry, and so on (there are no numbers for them) - ALL FRIENDS OF THE PEOPLE (Fathers can be said): Orni do not write such articles, they all correctly say: army, apartments, S-500 industry, and .....?
            There (in my opinion) and "enemies of the people" settled.
            1. YARY
              YARY 29 November 2012 07: 54 New
              +3
              Uv Vasily!
              An ekranoplan, like Buran, like Sotka, like a laser, like the lunar program, and much more, were covered with a copper basin for a reason. This is a systemic sabotage of the enemy. And she demands a systemic answer.
              Chips? Whiskey? Consoles and Merc? Do you even see the difference between greatness and what the natives give that would not interfere?
              Even if some part of the population is stupefied by these neoconcistador beads, the task of the ruler is to heal her and lead the healthy part along with him in the struggle.
              Well, when the shroud "zapadenskaya"! it will disappear and everything else will work out.
              What about
              Just expressed his opinion, in an interesting simple way.
              Well, he pinched ekranoplan.

              You are mistaken, this is a malicious article, and most likely under the order. At another time, the author would have to "talk" for a long time and meticulously give testimonies.
              1. postman
                postman 29 November 2012 10: 00 New
                0
                Quote: Ardent
                This is the enemy’s systemic diversion

                If this is about the collapse of the USSR (hardly about anything else) - then the Empires fall apart only from the inside (except for military defeat). We wouldn’t want (all of us) what diversion didn’t work out. "**** (various parts of our body) require change. CHANGE, mf ... we are waiting for change" - Remember, probably, like "sausages" ..
                The commitee- wanted communism all over the world and the export of revolution came out?
                Quote: Ardent
                Do you even see the difference between greatness and
                : of course., I don’t have a photo with "chips", but I have a photo on a 100m PBO tower and a fairing of Energia, elements of the Buran tk on the balcony. Whiskey is really tin
                Quote: Ardent
                , the task of the ruler to heal her

                nothing will work out forcibly
                Quote: Ardent
                This is a malicious article, and most likely on order.
                I don’t think so. And the author’s articles (fluent viewing) say the opposite. Too differentiated customers are obtained ..

                Quote: Ardent
                At other times, the author would have to weigh “meticulously” for a long time and meticulously giving evidence.

                I am glad that now is not the “other” time.
                Let me remind you of the majority of the 2 friends of the “people who wrote good articles, gutted about the people and the country-“ got rid of ”when everything went wrong and now the“ political elite ”and“ the color of the nation ”(as they consider themselves).
                One American citizenship of the son of N. Khrushchev, what is it worth, Kalygin, Lebedev, etc.
                1. YARY
                  YARY 29 November 2012 17: 26 New
                  +2
                  ] forcibly nothing happens
                  Well yes? The fathers of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagosaki with YOU I think will not agree.
                  All the greatest achievements are created either by force or by effort!
                  ] One American citizenship of the son of N. Khrushchev, what is it worth, Kalygin, Lebedev, etc. [/
                  Mmmmm and Zhukov or Stalin or POT, or KUZNETSOV not there? So it happens, traitors are among us and for this there is a political investigation!
                  **** (various parts of our body require change)
                  "If your right hand is not faithful to you, cut it off!"
    6. postman
      postman 28 November 2012 15: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Avenich
      Moreover, you’ll excuse me, in the same way, i.e. on the principle of "why the hell do we need it," as when the "spread rot"

      This is a somewhat incorrect comparison.
      the principle here is different, like the "spread rot" and "rotted" projects:
      1.Flying submarine:



      2.VVA-14


      3 Underwater Aircraft Carrier

      4.Underwater landing ship

      well, etc.
      1. Santa Fe
        28 November 2012 15: 24 New
        -4
        Quote: Postman
        the principle here is different, like the "spread rot" and "rotted" projects:
        1.Flying submarine:

        Hellish wunderwafle

        Quote: Postman
        BBA-14

        Vertically soaring amphibian. So it remained unclear why the seaplane would take off vertically if there were tens of kilometers of water.

        On the basis of VVA-14 in the Beriev Design Bureau, they tried to build an ekranoplan 14MP1. The work was canceled after the very first tests because the WIG 14MP1 could be deployed only with the help of a tugboat.

        Quote: Postman
        3 Underwater Aircraft Carrier

        Another prodigy. With the help of this thing, the Japanese once symbolically “bombed” forests in Oregon, dropping three phosphoric tiles. This career "submarine aircraft carrier" ingloriously ended
        1. postman
          postman 28 November 2012 16: 09 New
          -1
          I’m writing about this. and ekranoplan is an attempt to make a flying ship
          1. Santa Fe
            29 November 2012 00: 00 New
            -1
            Quote: Postman
            I’m writing about this.

            Well, I just wrote interesting details about these prodigies
        2. postman
          postman 29 November 2012 00: 41 New
          0
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          So it remains unclear why the seaplane has a vertical take-off

          Probably for take-off from extremely small bodies of water: pond in the village for example belay
          Just don’t go into sophistry, I won’t be able to answer the fig to use extremely small reservoirs for explosives, when the circle around the fig is “normal”.

          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          With this thing, the Japanese once symbolically “bombed” forests in Oregon

          But the idea is not dead, adapts:
          project 717 (1969) landing of marines and armored personnel carriers on the coast of Egypt

          Military cargo - 1200 tons;
          Airborne capacity:
          The first option: personnel - 800 people, armored vehicles such as BTR-60 - 4;
          The second option: personnel - 300 people, armored vehicles - 20 units
          ;
          submarine gas tanker project 941

          Container and oil tankers on the way:
          1. 11Goor11
            11Goor11 29 November 2012 04: 10 New
            +2

            The project of the aviation-marine search and rescue complex (AMPSK) "Mriya-Orlyonok". This complex, consisting of an An-225 aircraft and an ekranoplan "Orlyonok", should be based on civilian or military airfields. Upon receipt of a signal about an accident at sea, a carrier aircraft with an ekranoplan placed on it flies to the accident area and carries out an ekranoplan reset with the engines turned on near the emergency object. The developed wing of the ekranoplan allows you to make a planning descent and landing on water. Ekranoplan has special means to provide first aid. In the salons of ekranoplan can be accommodated up to 70 people.

            Here you can only fantasize, but you could make a planetary system for saving ships. And our state could be the first in this, but ... did not happen ...
            http://smi2.ru/aleh-golder/c537077/#
            1. postman
              postman 29 November 2012 10: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: 11Goor11
              The project of the aviation-marine search and rescue complex (AMPSK) "Mriya-Orlyonok".

              The “top” launch of an aircraft with SN is a practically unresolved technical problem for large objects.
              Gravity works against, bias from aerodynamic effects, change in gravity, well, etc.
              It is unlikely that a dump without landing would have turned out.
              Again, beria is easier, cheaper, safer
          2. kotuk_ha_oxote
            kotuk_ha_oxote 1 August 2017 20: 02 New
            0
            And why are underwater container ships and gas carriers needed? Incredible operating costs and high cost of ownership.
        3. yehat
          yehat 10 August 2018 11: 48 New
          0
          Why seaplane vertical take-off, if around tens of kilometers of water

          when the sea is rough, there is no smooth and easy to disperse water.
          in addition, this device was conceived as anti-submarine and vertical take-off and landing for working with buoys are useful
    7. Dnepropetrovsk
      Dnepropetrovsk 5 December 2012 00: 26 New
      0
      Well, if it was not a dead end, then the ekranoplanes would be.
  2. Dart weyder
    Dart weyder 28 November 2012 09: 03 New
    +9
    everything’s clear with these .... single, plus savages have built, physicists don’t know the laws, and I’ll use it — but if I knew, b would use ten engines ... or by 12



    stupid too built ....!?
    With a maximum take-off weight of 3700 kg and a fuel reserve of 250 kg, the EK-12 ekranoplan has a range of more than 1000 km. Cruising speed - 180 km / h
    The ekranoplan is equipped with two BMW M-70 engines with 326 horsepower,
    Crew - 2 person, can take up to 12 passengers



    AN-12 - Capacity: 7-9 passengers, or 600 kg of cargo, Maximum take-off weight: 3 kg, Engines: Ivchenko AI-630RF, 14x2 hp.


    time will certainly judge - but for each product - there is a buyer
    1. Avenich
      Avenich 28 November 2012 09: 19 New
      +2
      Excuse me, dear, a mistake came out on the plane photo AN-14. By the way, a promising model, hacked at the time.
      1. Dart weyder
        Dart weyder 28 November 2012 09: 34 New
        +2
        yes, thanks for correcting, there is an inscription on board - I printed it in a fit of feelings drinks they didn’t ruin, it was simply not up to him - pockets were stuffed,
        Cessna bought - because it sounds imported!
      2. bddrus
        bddrus 28 November 2012 09: 39 New
        0
        why hacked? released more than 300 pieces. Yes, and it was produced back in the 60-70s - that's why it is unclear who stuffed pockets (as described below by Darth Vader). he certainly looks more modern than the old man An-2
        1. Dart weyder
          Dart weyder 28 November 2012 09: 47 New
          0
          maybe he went a little over, but on its basis it was possible to create further developments, or here the An-28, then the An-38, and now everything is imported from us ....
        2. Avenich
          Avenich 28 November 2012 10: 06 New
          0
          Hacked up in the sense that Antonov represented him as a short take-off and landing airplane, but for this it was necessary to take off from the “brakes”. The state commission tested it in the old fashioned way. The result was a very mediocre truck. Accordingly, the series was nothing at all.
      3. Vadivak
        Vadivak 28 November 2012 10: 24 New
        +2
        Quote: Avenich
        . By the way, a promising model, hacked at the time.


        Had the opportunity to appreciate. "Bee" seems
        1. Gamdlislyam
          Gamdlislyam 28 November 2012 12: 08 New
          +1
          .An-14 was designed and built initially on the instructions of the USSR Ministry of Defense, and not Aeroflot. In the USSR Air Force these planes also left. An-28 was designed for Aeroflot, but then politics prevailed. They decided to make a bet on the Czech L-410 to support the CMEA (Council for Mutual Economic Assistance).
    2. Santa Fe
      28 November 2012 13: 03 New
      -4
      Quote: Dart Weyder
      everything’s clear with these .... single, plus savages have built, physicists don’t know the laws, and I’ll use it — but if I knew, b would use ten engines ... or by 12


      The first photo shows the Iranian ekranoplanes Bavar-2. Crew - 1 people, weapons - one machine gun!
      Iran’s next attempt to show its power, which is not there. If savages had the means and technology, they would not have built a paperboard ekranoplan, but a new fighter - Iranians still fly on rusty F-14 and Phantoms released in 70.


      By the way, the Iranians are building their "ekranoplanes" according to the project of the German engineer Alexander Lippish - he was the first to offer a deltoid wing for flying on the screen.
    3. sniper
      sniper 28 November 2012 13: 08 New
      +6
      As the author rightly pointed out, the height of the screen flight depends on the wing chord, i.e. the wider the wing, the higher the screen effect, what am I doing? And to the fact that with a sufficiently large chord and over hummocks, you can fly both over waves and over trees ... Based on the author’s logic, all land vehicles should be banned, since they will never develop airspeed, and helicopters, so those in general dead-end branch ... The speed is nonsense, they cannot get into the 10000’s favorite by the author, well, they’re eating fuel, so Mama don’t cry ... Moreover, you cannot destroy an aircraft carrier from a helicopter, which, according to the author, is a necessary quality of a vehicle ... Let us take a sober look at things, if we don’t impose on the ekranoplan an unusual function for it, then it is not very bad. In the range of helicopter speeds, the ekranoplane impresses with its economy and load-carrying capacity, in addition, flight safety is much higher, when the engine is turned off, it just lands ... It is closest to the tasks to be solved by SVP, but they are much more complicated, voracious, and have worse passability .. So the author is somehow too biased towards ekranoplanes ...
      1. Santa Fe
        28 November 2012 13: 22 New
        -5
        Quote: sniper
        the height of the screen flight depends on the wing chord, i.e. the wider the wing, the higher the screen effect, what am I doing? And to the fact that with a sufficiently large chord and over hummocks, you can fly both over waves and over trees

        To be more precise, the flight height for the 1 / 3 screen of the aerodynamic chord. to fly over the trees you need a wing width of 50 meters
        Quote: sniper
        In the range of helicopter speeds, the ekranoplan amazes with its efficiency and carrying capacity.

        Usually worse than corn
        Quote: sniper
        in addition, flight safety is much higher

        At an altitude of 1 meter, the first snag sticking out of the water will be the last
        1. sniper
          sniper 28 November 2012 13: 38 New
          +3
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          To be more precise, the flight height for the 1 / 3 screen of the aerodynamic chord. to fly over the trees you need a wing width of 50 meters

          Well, if you take the taiga, then you’re right ... Just do an ekranoplane over the taiga? In addition, it is not necessary to discount the possibility of separation from the surface and transition to free flight ...
          Tundra, north, floodplains, steppes, sands, swamps ... but are there few places where the ekranoplan is needed?
    4. Santa Fe
      28 November 2012 13: 34 New
      -4
      Quote: Dart Weyder
      stupid too built ....!?
      With a maximum take-off weight of 3700 kg and a fuel reserve of 250 kg, the EK-12 ekranoplan has a range of more than 1000 km. Cruising speed - 180 km / h
      The ekranoplan is equipped with two BMW M-70 engines with 326 horsepower,
      Crew - 2 person, can take up to 12 passengers

      Maize An-2 (first flight of 1947)
      Engine of the ASH-62IR 700 horsepower engine (developed by 1938)
      Payload - 1,5 tons or 12 people
      Cruising speed - 180 km / h, maximum - 250 km / h.

      In contrast to the ekranoplan, the maize do not care about the relief under the wing: the river, the city, the forest, the lake, the hills - where it is needed, it flies there.
      1. Santa Fe
        28 November 2012 13: 49 New
        -3
        Quote: Dart Weyder
        stupid too built ....!?
        With a maximum take-off weight of 3700 kg and a fuel reserve of 250 kg, the EK-12 ekranoplan has a range of more than 1000 km. Cruising speed - 180 km / h
        The ekranoplan is equipped with two BMW M-70 engines with 326 horsepower,
        Crew - 2 person, can take up to 12 passengers


        Cessna 172 light-engine aircraft (commercially available from 1956)

        Crew 1 people + 3 passengers (I hope you can correlate + take into account the age of the car and progress in the aircraft industry over the last 50 years)
        160 hp engine
        Fuel supply 56 gallons (212 l.)
        Flight range 1300 km
        Cruising speed 220 km / h, maximum - 300 km / h

        + aircraft versatility. For "Cessna" does not matter reef under the wing: the sea, forest, cities. If necessary - will land even on Red Square
      2. sniper
        sniper 28 November 2012 13: 51 New
        +4
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Engine of the cornshop ASh-62IR 700 hp

        And what is the excuse for fuel consumption? And at what speed does he come off the ground?
        1. Santa Fe
          28 November 2012 14: 22 New
          -3
          Quote: sniper
          And what is the excuse for fuel consumption?

          What, excuse me, is the year the engine was created? Have you tried to put an engine from Emka on Zhigul?
    5. 916-th
      916-th 28 November 2012 23: 24 New
      +1
      The last An-14 is somewhat off topic. This is an ordinary light-engine aircraft. Where I met him, I was used in the PDS (paratrooper service) for training jumps. He has rear doors under the tail boom, folding doors, as far as I remember. It takes off and lands literally on a piglet at a ridiculous car speed + almost silent. Good little bee.
      1. Avenich
        Avenich 29 November 2012 07: 03 New
        +2
        And the topic and not the topic. The AN-14 has a very developed wing mechanization, controlled. In fact, Antonov used the very ill-fated screen to reduce the take-off and landing distance. Judging by your feedback, he did it.
  3. engineer74
    engineer74 28 November 2012 09: 23 New
    +2
    The disadvantages of a heavy ekranoplan as a transport and carrier of anti-ship missiles are obvious. Can it be used as an anti-submarine? The speed is higher than that of a ship and the carrying capacity is greater than that of an airplane.
    1. Avenich
      Avenich 28 November 2012 09: 42 New
      +6
      When the Lun was built, the AWACS system was only in the project. Not a single warship was able to detect a small target moving at high speed directly near the surface of the water. Now the aircraft grouping of the aircraft carrier necessarily includes an aircraft with a system similar to AWACS, but no one intends to demolish the aircraft carrier’s deeply echeloned defense alone. Simply, even in a modern war, where by the way all radio will be actively suppressed, the ekranoplan has more chances to cope with the destruction of an aircraft carrier, but when interacting with naval aviation. And as regards anti-submarine use, there are excellent prospects, because Alekseev did not try to scatter depth charges with KM.
      1. engineer74
        engineer74 28 November 2012 10: 15 New
        0
        Aircraft AWACS appeared a little earlier (Grumman E-1 Tracer). I think Alekseev didn’t, on his own initiative, thrust the RCC on an ekranoplan. Probably, the headquarters of the Navy had a reasonable concept for their use, but the apparatus did not reach their requirements.
      2. Santa Fe
        28 November 2012 14: 13 New
        -2
        Quote: Avenich
        And as regards anti-submarine use, there are excellent prospects, because Alekseev did not try to scatter depth charges with KM.

        KM is a terrible wunderwafer compared to anti-submarine IL-38 or Tu-142
        Quote: Avenich
        When the Lun was built, the AWACS system was only in the project

        Deck Aircraft AWACS E-2 Hawkeye. The first flight of 1960 year.
        The first early warning radar aircraft appeared in the 1940's.
        1. engineer74
          engineer74 28 November 2012 15: 01 New
          0
          I didn’t hear that they put on RB-38 or Tu-142 RBU. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the plane carries and EP in the complex, using everything becomes much more interesting. laughing I heard that they put on the IL-38 or Tu-142 RBU. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the plane carries and EP in the complex, using everything becomes much more interesting. laughing I heard that they put on the IL-38 or Tu-142 RBU. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the plane carries and EP in the complex, using everything becomes much more interesting. laughing I heard that they put on the IL-38 or Tu-142 RBU. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the plane carries and EP in the complex, using everything becomes much more interesting. laughing I heard that they put on the IL-38 or Tu-142 RBU. And if the aircraft carries and the EP in the complex, it becomes much more interesting to use everything. I have not heard that they put RBU on the IL-38 or Tu-142. And if the plane carries and EP in the complex to use everything becomes much more interesting.
        2. engineer74
          engineer74 28 November 2012 15: 05 New
          +1
          I didn’t hear that they put on RB-38 or Tu-142 RBU. And if the plane and the EP in the complex use everything becomes much more interesting.
          1. Santa Fe
            28 November 2012 15: 15 New
            -4
            Quote: engineer74
            I have not heard that on IL-38 or Tu-142 RBU put

            fool
            Ever heard of APR-1, APR-2?
            Aircraft anti-submarine missile torpedoes
            1. Kars
              Kars 28 November 2012 15: 26 New
              +2
              Aviation torpedoes carry a small charge of explosives (well, basically there may be heavy aviation, but they can hardly reach the MK48), the parachute method of dropping is also not very accurate.
              1. Santa Fe
                28 November 2012 16: 46 New
                -2
                Quote: Kars
                Aviation torpedoes carry a small charge of explosives (well, basically there may be heavy aviation, but they can hardly reach the MK48), the parachute method of dropping is also not very accurate.

                This is not a torpedo - before launch, the coordinates of the “splashdown” place are entered in APR-1

                Quote: Kars
                Aviation torpedoes carry a small charge of explosives (well, basically, maybe there are heavy aviation

                There will be a need - they will create a difficult one. And even superheavy.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 28 November 2012 16: 56 New
                  +2
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  This is not a torpedo - before launch, the coordinates of the “splashdown” place are entered in APR-1

                  Does it work under water? So a torpedo. And it still does not increase the charge - 80-100 kg.
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  There will be a need - they will create a difficult one. And even superheavy.

                  This is already like a mantra for you, they will create an armor slaughter. RCCs, they will create a heavy aviatorpeda --- they could have been created a long time ago. For nothing that the MK 48 was made weighing 1.5 tons, there is certainly nothing to do
                  1. Santa Fe
                    28 November 2012 18: 10 New
                    -3
                    But where does the ekranoplan?

                    Does it work under water? So a torpedo.
                    This is a guided bomb + torpedo
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 28 November 2012 21: 29 New
                      +2
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      But where does the ekranoplan?

                      yes, it’s not in this context that I brought it. But I can develop the topic - it has the ability to drive and use a normal full-fledged torpedo, etc.
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      This is a guided bomb + torpedo

                      Well, it’s kind of not so classified, it’s in the table of air torpedoes.
                      1. Santa Fe
                        29 November 2012 00: 23 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Kars
                        This is already like a mantra for you, they will create an armor slaughter. RCCs, they will create a heavy aviatorpeda --- they could have been created a long time ago. For nothing that the MK 48 was made weighing 1.5 tons, there is certainly nothing to do

                        Poseidon has 11 weapon suspension points. Obviously there is no point in increasing the size of torpedoes.

                        What can be the difficulties for creating heavy aircraft torpedoes? Aircraft drop bombs and CDs weighing many tons.
                        You can not worry about the strength of torpedoes: APR-1 can be dropped from a height of hundreds of meters, and WWII AMD mines normally pierced 70 cm of ice (but already too much)

                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, it’s kind of not so classified, it’s in the table of air torpedoes.

                        Torpedo. But not quite ordinary.
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 29 November 2012 00: 43 New
                        +1
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Poseidon has 11 weapon suspension points. Obviously there is no point in increasing the size of torpedoes

                        Obscurely unobvious
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        What can be the difficulties for creating heavy aircraft torpedoes? Aircraft drop bombs and CDs weighing many tons.

                        So where are they? When the three Cheters were guaranteed they couldn’t disable the Shark / Typhoon
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        You can not worry about the strength of torpedoes: APR-1 can be dropped from a height of hundreds of meters, and WWII AMD mines normally pierced 70 cm of ice (but already too much)

                        Well, I don’t know what you mean
                        The length of the rocket hull is 5,3 meters, the diameter is 0,35 meters, and the mass is 670 kg. Warhead weight - 80 kg. Range underwater 800–900 meters at a depth of 30-420 meters. Speed ​​in search mode - 37 km / h. Speed ​​in attack mode - up to 110 km / h


                        Information
                        Type anti-submarine
                        Base surface ships, anti-submarine aircraft, helicopters, submarines RUM-139 VL-Asroc
                        US state
                        Manufacturer Raytheon
                        Start of development 1999
                        In service 2004
                        Modern status in service
                        Parameters
                        Weight 276 kg
                        Length 2,72 m
                        Diameter 324 mm
                        Warhead 44 kg
                        Technical data
                        Speed ​​40+ knots
                        2400 m range
                        Active and passive sonar homing
          2. engineer74
            engineer74 28 November 2012 15: 54 New
            0
            Heard, 2 pieces do not guarantee the destruction of nuclear submarines.
  • Dart weyder
    Dart weyder 28 November 2012 09: 39 New
    +6
    do not forget that seaplanes as well as hovercraft did not find widespread use either (especially the latter), because this is a specific type of transport - which under certain conditions is the only one capable of performing a certain task - whether to land on the water or take off from it or go through wetlands or a water surface, go to land, moving a tank, company or cargo to a certain distance .... they are not a mass product .... but they have their own specific niche with which there is nothing to beat them out with. ... kindly - but a universal vehicle has not yet been invented request
  • Avenich
    Avenich 28 November 2012 09: 45 New
    0
    What a pity that you are not our compatriot. No irony.
  • Igarr
    Igarr 28 November 2012 10: 25 New
    +12
    Oleg does not like ekranoplans.
    He does not tolerate them.
    The phrase ".. Ekranoplan - this is not a ship or a plane, because they can not be compared." - and I wrote that.
    “It is possible and even necessary to compare ..” - but only to know what to compare with.
    Let Mriya fly at an altitude of 10 meters - and see what happens to her.
    You might think that the ekranoplane is required to set a supersonic speed record in the "envelope" mode of the surface. Monstrous resistance, monstrous resistance !!
    And at an altitude of 10 km - a monstrous rarefaction. Monstrous rarefaction. And man does not breathe there. Nothing because. Lungs flew out through the mouth.
    And we will begin to consider fantastic projects (Pelican) and compare with a helicopter, say. What will happen?
    Is the application niche indicated?
    But what are the photos in the comments not a niche?
    And anti-submarine vehicles are a good use. In the far coastal zone.
    And the polar application is quite suitable for the EXACT delivery of goods. Fragile. Which can not be thrown. From stunning heights of 10 km.
    ..What still will not stop doing - seaplanes? Duck airplanes?
    .
    Yes, just to have different tools, for different occasions - and that’s good.
    In the dental technology, the sledgehammer somehow did not find application.
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 28 November 2012 11: 10 New
      +4
      Add: There are situations when the economic part is not taken into account when completing a task. For example, a mobile launcher of a heavy ICBM-quickly left the base point and fired, and back, even at the oars, if there is any where. Or subtle long-range anti-ship missiles using the screen effect on the marching section. Sci-fi of course, but it's worth considering.
      1. Santa Fe
        28 November 2012 14: 06 New
        -4
        Quote: engineer74
        Or subtle long-range anti-ship missiles using the screen effect on the marching section. Sci-fi of course, but it's worth considering

        You are some strange engineer. Two things are required to create a screen effect:
        - flight height less than 1 / 3 wing width
        - low speed. The screen effect stops working at speeds above 0,5M - the air wave just does not have time to bounce off the ground and return to the wing to support the aircraft.

        Quote: engineer74
        For example, a mobile launcher of heavy ICBMs quickly left the base point and fired, and back, even at the oars, if there is any

        What do you dislike about 667BDRM?
        1. engineer74
          engineer74 28 November 2012 14: 49 New
          +2
          Namely, a subtle (in IR, too), with a low speed, at an extremely low altitude, with a launch range> 2000 and a megaton warhead quietly creeps up .....
          I wrote Fiction.
          667BDRM? Who knows what's on her tail? BZHRK and GPRK also not just developed. laughing
    2. Ilyukha
      Ilyukha 28 November 2012 11: 57 New
      +1
      Igarr! Something I did not understand your position))
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 28 November 2012 13: 49 New
        +1
        And what exactly is not clear?
        About the sledgehammer?
    3. Santa Fe
      28 November 2012 13: 15 New
      -3
      Quote: Igarr
      Let Mriya fly at an altitude of 10 meters - and see what happens to her.

      She doesn't need to fly so low
      Quote: Igarr
      Is the application niche indicated? But what are the photos in the comments not a niche?

      Do-it-yourself triple rides
      Quote: Igarr
      And anti-submarine vehicles are a good use. In the far coastal zone.

      What are the advantages of the ekranoplane over the P-8 Poseidon anti-submarine aircraft (based on the passenger B-737)?
      1. sniper
        sniper 28 November 2012 13: 27 New
        +2
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Do-it-yourself triple rides

        You would carefully read the post ...
        Quote: Dart Weyder
        Crew - 2 people, can take up to xnumx passengers
      2. Igarr
        Igarr 28 November 2012 13: 56 New
        +5
        Well, for example, the ekranoplan is able to sit on the water. Wait.
        What at least Poseidon, even Neptune, even Boeing 747 - are not capable of doing in principle.
        Well, for example, are you not happy with the idea of ​​developing anti-aircraft missiles used from under water? Not fun.
        But the missiles used from under water by ekranoplans - I have never even heard something before. Why not an idea?
        EP (for brevity) - it will be able to make several jumps (I hope to understand my terminology) - to accurately bring down a torpedo, a bomb, and just a steel network - on the submarine.
        An airplane can do this with much less accuracy. So no?
        Mine production ... Why forget about them. Who would have the idea that the electronic bomb “poured” a mine can at precisely this point? Especially if he was firing heavily with rockets here?
        Not really tensed.
        You can and something else ... think up.
        Only ... why?
        All the same, you will be against it.
        ..
        Yes, about Mriya.
        The ekranoplan also does not need to fly in space for nothing.
        1. Santa Fe
          28 November 2012 15: 01 New
          0
          Quote: Igarr
          EP (for brevity) - it will be able to make several jumps (I hope to understand my terminology) - to accurately bring down a torpedo, a bomb, and just a steel network - on the submarine.

          Some kind of stupidity.
          An anti-submarine aircraft without any “hops” or other perversions can precisely put a homing torpedo.
          Quote: Igarr
          Mine productions ... Why forget about them

          It’s like airplanes don’t know how

          The first mine setting during World War II in the Baltic was performed by the planes of the 1-th mine-torpedo regiment 28 on June 1941, placing on the approaches to the Finnish ports of Turku and Kotka 21 mine MAB-1. Mines were put from the height of 800-1000 m cans of 2-3 pieces. From 3 to 11 on July 1941, mine operations were carried out on the fairways to the ports of Helsinki, Kotka and Turku, where another 57 of MAV-1 and AMG-1 mines were exhibited. The experience of using AMG-1 mines in the winter of 1941-1942 years showed that when dropping from a height of more than 300 mines, the mine broke through ice up to 70 cm thick and at the same time it normally got into a fighting position. Total aviation of the Baltic Fleet in the cities. The war delivered 1612 mines from the DB-ZF, Il-4 and A-20G Boston aircraft.


          In the illustration - the AMD non-contact bottom land mine AMD-1-500 (adopted for service in the 1942 year)
        2. Santa Fe
          28 November 2012 15: 07 New
          -1
          Quote: Igarr
          EP (for brevity) - it will be able to make several jumps (I hope to understand my terminology) - to accurately bring down a torpedo, a bomb, and just a steel network - on the submarine.

          Some kind of stupidity.
          An anti-submarine aircraft without any “hops” or other perversions can precisely put a homing torpedo.
          Quote: Igarr
          Mine productions ... Why forget about them

          It’s like airplanes don’t know how

          The first mine setting during World War II in the Baltic was performed by the planes of the 1-th mine-torpedo regiment 28 on June 1941, placing on the approaches to the Finnish ports of Turku and Kotka 21 mine MAB-1. Mines were put from the height of 800-1000 m cans of 2-3 pieces. From 3 to 11 on July 1941, mine operations were carried out on the fairways to the ports of Helsinki, Kotka and Turku, where another 57 of MAV-1 and AMG-1 mines were exhibited. The experience of using AMG-1 mines in the winter of 1941-1942 years showed that when dropping from a height of more than 300 mines, the mine broke through ice up to 70 cm thick and at the same time it normally got into a fighting position. Total aviation of the Baltic Fleet in the cities. The war delivered 1612 mines from the DB-ZF, Il-4 and A-20G Boston aircraft.


          In the illustration - the AMD non-contact bottom land mine AMD-1-500 (adopted for service in the 1942 year)
          1. Igarr
            Igarr 28 November 2012 15: 40 New
            +8
            Well, we have a discussion ...
            "..Anti-submarine aircraft without any" jumps "and other perversions can definitely put homing torpedo. " - your words.
            "..to accurately bring down a torpedo, a bomb, and just a steel network - on a submarine." - my words.
            ..
            What are we talking about?
            About homing torpedoes? Then the self-guiding ballistic "Satan" is cooler than any of your aircraft.
            And the T-1000 monster from Terminator is cooler than the coolest one.
            .
            You like displacement ships and planes. To use, you, father.
            I, however, believe that Russia needs to develop ekranoplans.
            ..
            \ A matter of faith, as we see.
    4. Santa Fe
      28 November 2012 13: 58 New
      -5
      Quote: Igarr
      Fragile. Which can not be thrown. From stunning heights in 10 km.


      BTA pilots had to perform similar tasks in the 2007 year. Then from Murmansk to the North Pole region they made three flights. This time, according to the head of the Air Force’s information and public relations service, Colonel Alexander Drobyshevsky, the crew of the Il-76 will perform cargo landing (their total weight will exceed 21 tons) and parachutists also in three stages, told Krasnaya Zvezda.

      On March 15 for the wintering of the 1 Venetian Blinds, it is planned to throw six PGS500 (1000) cargo systems; for the wintering of the 2 Venetian Blinds - ten of the same systems and four parachutists.

      The second stage is scheduled for March 16, when they will drop on Barneo five P-7 platforms with fuel and a DT-75 tractor


      Or are you going to dump crystal services to polar explorers?

      Quote: Igarr
      And the polar application is quite suitable for the EXACT delivery of goods. Fragile. Which can not be thrown.

      By the way, there is an An-74 multipurpose aircraft (pictured is landing on Arctic ice)
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 28 November 2012 14: 13 New
        +5
        Yes, of course, yes.
        Polar aviation is power. Most importantly, she was born in Russia (USSR).
        But now, your opinion is that he will see EP, except for his nose, when he saves .. drowning people.
        And what will An-74 see when it wants to land on ice? What if a crack? The ekranoplan is, as it were, a nuisance; to an airplane, it is a kayuk.
        Lundgren, saving the polar explorers, crashed. Our aviators also saved once, once - they, another time - them.
        ..
        And generally speaking. Am I calling for the hassle of aviation?
        I’m leading to the fact that we shouldn’t be fooled afterwards. Such WAS development. So you had Alekseev.
        But you, the marsh Chuvirls, could not do anything.
        They will not say ???
        And how.
  • vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 28 November 2012 12: 07 New
    +5
    Everyone knows who Alekseev is, a talented designer, inventor, scientist, but who are you? Before criticizing, name your works, bring your developments, no, well then, what kind of porite you are here is unknown. Envy strangles, well, get drunk with grief. And do not write nonsense.
  • Kars
    Kars 28 November 2012 12: 08 New
    +7
    in a whirlwind they fly to the enemy shore, the sea boils from shells behind the stern, but late - riddled cars, raising clouds of wet sand and pebbles


    there’s an interesting point - imagine a landing group 200 km from the coast. (I won’t consider the range of Pelekan, it’s not about him but an ekranoplan as an amphibious vehicle), even if he sees it, he has 200 or even 300 km of coastline, and there is no Todd’s army and artillery of half of the Eurasian continent. he will not be able to concentrate troops on every km of the coast. Therefore, with the help of ekranoplanes you can land troops anywhere in the coast, and the enemy will not have time to parry him by accumulating reserves, as it would be using water-based high-altitude equipment for which you need the main group to come closer to the shore and even with this crossing will take several hours.
    1. Ilyukha
      Ilyukha 28 November 2012 13: 08 New
      -3
      Quote: Kars
      there is an interesting point - imagine a landing group 200 km from the coast. (I will not consider the range of Pelekan, it’s not about him but the ekranoplan as a landing craft)

      Now imagine a trivial, well-known helicopter rattling in the sky.
      He will land troops not ashore, but to a depth inside the land, as far as kerosene is enough. Amerovskaya turntables of the MP still have a refueling system in the air, which is why they can land troops very deep inside the country.
      And ashore, if only there is necessary, you can throw the fighters on a boat, with a small wave speed of 100 km / h.
      You can not only throw an ekranoplane, but also a starship))
      The ekranoplan-gizmo is technically interesting, but has no advantages in military affairs.
      1. Kars
        Kars 28 November 2012 13: 45 New
        +6
        Quote: Ilyukha
        , and to a depth inland, how much kerosene is enough

        I will cry from a dozen American soldiers with small arms that will be crushed in an hour.
        Quote: Ilyukha
        And ashore, if only there is necessary, you can throw the fighters on a boat, with a small wave speed of 100 km / h.

        With a tank? And it’s two hours at least, which will be tracked, and two hours for the self-propelled guns to be deployed.
        Quote: Ilyukha
        but in military matters has no advantages

        I don’t know about everything else, but the landing operations and the hunt for aircraft carriers are the most.
        Quote: Ilyukha
        helicopter rattling in the sky




        those days are gone
        1. Santa Fe
          28 November 2012 15: 09 New
          -1
          Quote: Kars
          I will cry from a dozen American soldiers with small arms that will be crushed in an hour.

          Quote: Kars
          With a tank? And it’s two hours at least, which will be tracked, and two hours for the self-propelled guns to be deployed.

          As you can see, the ekranoplane cannot raise the tank.
          1. Kars
            Kars 28 November 2012 15: 18 New
            +4
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            As you can see, the ekranoplane cannot raise the tank.

            Cannot? Could or cannot?

            When discussing the Pelican project, the most common opinion is the unique capabilities of such vehicles during landing operations. The ekranoplan can take on board up to 17 Abrams M1 main battle tanks and deliver armored vehicles to anywhere in the world at a speed of 250 knots (460 km / h) - tell me, which of the modern ships can provide such incredible performance? Flight range 16 - 18 thousand


            I do not insist on a transoceanic flight range, and even 17 abrams - 600-700 tons will be enough.
            1. Santa Fe
              28 November 2012 15: 31 New
              -1
              Quote: Kars
              Cannot? Could or cannot?

              The laws of nature are constants
              Quote: Kars
              and even on 17 abrams --600-700 tons will be enough.

              Take-off mass or payload?
              1. Kars
                Kars 28 November 2012 15: 40 New
                +4
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                The laws of nature are constants

                As long as I see only the law of economics, it’s a miracle for me personally that the devices fly heavier than air. And the Yankees hoped to start something from Pelican.
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Take-off mass or payload?

                useful.
                1. Santa Fe
                  28 November 2012 16: 03 New
                  -3
                  Quote: Kars
                  And the Yankees hoped for something starting Pelican.

                  “Starting” is said loudly. “Phantom Works” managed to draw only a couple of pictures.
                  Quote: Kars
                  While I see only the law of economics

                  And the economy, and tactics, and common sense.
                  Quote: Kars
                  useful.

                  Pelican has a payload of 1200 tons
                  So, what is next?
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 28 November 2012 16: 07 New
                    +5
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    “Starting” is said loudly. “Phantom Works” managed to draw only a couple of pictures.

                    But the vet began. And what is the maximum weight that the winged wing could lift?
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    And the economy, and tactics, and common sense.

                    Apart from the economy, in some cases, nothing else is observed.
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Pelican has a payload of 1200 tons
                    So, what is next

                    And super, remove more fuel (2000-3000 km just right) will be either more, or faster, or cheaper.
                    1. Santa Fe
                      28 November 2012 16: 55 New
                      -3
                      Quote: Kars
                      But the vet began. And what is the maximum weight that the winged wing could lift?
                      remove more fuel (2000-3000 km just right) will be either more, or faster, or cheaper.


                      "Eaglet" - the most advanced ekranoplan, aluminum fuselage, good aerodynamics.
                      Take-off weight / Payload 140 / 20 tons
                      Speed ​​350 km / h
                      1500 range km
                      Fuel 28 tons

                      "Pelican" - the most advanced technologies, maximum relief, an unsealed fuselage, can take off and land only on a long high-quality runway
                      Take-off weight / load 2700 / 1200 tons
                      Speed ​​450 km / h
                      Range 18 000 km (I have every reason not to believe this figure, less even empty)

                      An-225 Mriya
                      Vzl. weight / load capacity 640 / 250 tons
                      Speed ​​850 km / h
                      Range with full load 4000 km
                      Empty range 15000 km
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 28 November 2012 16: 59 New
                        +4
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Take-off weight / load 2700 / 1200 tons

                        Enough and half.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        An-225 Mriya

                        handsome. Only in battle do not apply it.
                      2. Santa Fe
                        28 November 2012 18: 13 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Kars
                        only in battle do not apply it.

                        Like the transport screen
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 28 November 2012 21: 32 New
                        +4
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Like the transport screen

                        Once you can, and if you're lucky, then two. He is more likely to successfully land his cargo.
                      4. Santa Fe
                        29 November 2012 00: 10 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Once you can, and if you're lucky, then two. He is more likely to successfully land his cargo.


                        He will not be able to drop the tank - it will be smashed to pieces with the load

                        And the one that will not break (KM for example) carries too few tanks 1-2 pcs. and at a ridiculous distance of 1500 km. Even taking into account technological progress, you will get the same 1-2 tanks at a range ... even three times further. Hat.

                        Your fictional landing screen will have 600-700 tons payload, and the take-off weight will remain the same, if not more (powerful engines + more robust construction). Can you imagine the wingspan of 190 m? This is a child prodigy - it doesn’t even choose a place to land due to limited maneuverability
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 29 November 2012 00: 21 New
                        +2
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        He will not be able to drop the tank - it will be smashed to pieces with the load

                        Are you talking about the plane? Well, I’m talking about that. It’s unnecessary to even go ashore, tanks can easily wade forwards with a depth of 1 m, although I don’t understand why you are sure that he will not go ashore.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        distance of 1500 km

                        This distance is three times greater than necessary.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Your fictional landing screen will have a carrying capacity of 600-700 tons, and the take-off weight will remain the same

                        What nonsense
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Take-off weight / load 2700 / 1200 tons

                        everything should decrease proportionally, or even to a greater extent - vet is progress in materials, etc.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Can you imagine the wingspan of 190 m?

                        I don’t care.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        she didn’t even choose a place to land due to limited maneuverability
                        vryatli she will have to do a 180-degree maneuver.
                2. saturn.mmm
                  saturn.mmm 28 November 2012 23: 56 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Kars
                  handsome. Only in battle do not use it

                  You can cram 6 full-fledged T-80 tanks, and the place will remain for Kamaz with fuel, everything is relative.
                  And the plane, of course, is the pride of the Soviet aircraft industry. Will they build it in my life?
  • Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 28 November 2012 13: 58 New
    +8
    And the author is persistent, you will not say anything!
    That's how I drove into my head to prove that the ekranoplanes are worthless, here it knocks on the keys with tenacity worthy of a better application!
    Who and when said that ekranoplanes should replace both aircraft and traditional ships? Personally, I have not seen such statements anywhere ...
    An ekranoplan is a fairly narrow-mode type of transport that should work in close cooperation with both aviation and the fleet, and not replace either one or the other! What could be easier?
    And for Russia with its three puddles and poorly accessible oceans it may turn out to be just much more effective than for the same States with their most convenient access to the two oceans ...
  • Retx
    Retx 28 November 2012 14: 18 New
    0
    And also in the USSR there was a project of an ekranoplane led by Badyagin, a very interesting wunderwafer - Triton a. Underwater mother his plane wassat Could complete it, it would be interesting to see this experiment live ...
  • Setrac
    Setrac 28 November 2012 14: 25 New
    +5
    Well, if you do not chase speed, then economy at the car level, I’ll pay attention to another aspect, with other things being equal, the ekranoplan can be made 3-4 times bigger and heavier than an airplane.
    In Russia, there are ready-made transport arteries - rivers - on which ekranoplanes can be used both in summer and winter. It makes sense to develop this type of transport, especially in the north to the east, in regions with poor infrastructure.
  • dmb
    dmb 28 November 2012 15: 34 New
    +6
    What does not like in this article. Utility approach. Indeed, in most visitors to the site lives (and thank God) that time. When we were 12 years old. When we dreamed of becoming astronauts, not exchange clerks. An ekranoplan is a beautiful dream, and many of us are very lucky to see the real embodiment of this dream. Remember which magazine was most valued. Naturally, "Technique-youth", but not some kind of "Young friend of an accountant." I do not dispute, without the economy anywhere. But the site implies primarily a creative approach to business. We do not have a meeting of state. commission. decisive, to adopt an ekranoplan in service, or is it better to buy a gold toilet for Serdyukov. And if humanity did not try and was not mistaken, then to this day we would eat raw lizards raw.
  • engineer74
    engineer74 28 November 2012 17: 09 New
    0
    WIG while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True Dead End Ideas Also Always Caught smile Anoplans are still expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True Dead End Ideas Also Always Caught smile Anoplans are still expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True Dead End Ideas Also Always Caught smile Anoplans are still expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True Dead End Ideas Also Always Caught smile Anoplans are still expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True deadlock ideas, too, have always been enough.
  • engineer74
    engineer74 28 November 2012 17: 23 New
    0
    WIG while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, smile let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, smile let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, smile let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, smile let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True deadlock ideas, too, have always been enough.
    Thanks for the article and separately for the discussion!
  • engineer74
    engineer74 28 November 2012 17: 28 New
    0
    WIG while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True dead-end ideas, too, have always been missed. Screens while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True deadlock ideas, too, have always been enough.
    Thanks for the article and separately for the discussion!
  • Locksmith
    Locksmith 28 November 2012 17: 35 New
    +6
    Quote: Ilyukha
    Any jet subsonic aircraft, up to the TCB, can catch and shoot

    Well, caught up, well, shot, then what? The ekranoplan is not as sensitive to a defeat as an ordinary aircraft, it needs something more substantial, such as a rocket, to cause a defeat incompatible with further flight wink , and from an ekranoplane if a rocket flies into the return line, even a link breaks out, the mass of transported ammunition and means of reflection is simply incomparable. And the rockets from the aircraft are reluctantly aiming at the SPEED according to their concept, the target is water; the GOS interferes with it, this bad water absorbs IR radiation, the radio channel is buggy due to reflections from the same water. Aircraft AWACS with great difficulty seeing him because of this. And if at this stage it is done according to the canons of stealth? Yes, and the top of the fezulage is carbon, hell whoever sees it until it starts shooting. laughing
  • engineer74
    engineer74 28 November 2012 17: 38 New
    +1
    WIG while expensive and beautiful toys. But, let's not forget, the same thing a hundred years ago was with aviation. Throwing hand grenades and firing a revolver from an expensive airplane, to put it mildly, is ineffective, but it has taken root and developed. So everything has its own time and a targeted niche. The case is for those who really work in this direction. True deadlock ideas, too, have always been enough.
    Thanks for the article and separately for the discussion! bully
  • Locksmith
    Locksmith 28 November 2012 18: 22 New
    +4
    Quote: engineer74
    WIG while expensive and beautiful toys

    Since the military once again dealt with this, despite all the reductions and overturbations in the army, it means that they really have strength and huge unrealized potential. In our country, there has been a lot and fruitfully involved in this, it is a sin to bury such an experience. And it’s also very noticeable in the comments that many simply did not read about the history of ekranoplanes, they don’t know the scientific justification, but they are very actively criticizing it from the position of amateurs .. wink Militant amateurism, so to speak. am
    1. Santa Fe
      28 November 2012 19: 09 New
      -2
      Quote: Locksmith
      Since the military once again dealt with this, despite all the reductions and overturbations in the army, it means that they really have strength and huge unrealized potential



      The Navy's General Staff reported that the ekranoplanes, which were excluded from the Caspian flotilla three years ago, will be disposed of in the coming months.
      - Even talk about their revival is not conducted. Now the fleet has many other serious tasks, no longer as bold as before. We prefer not to build illusions anymore, ”said the representative of the Navy Commander.

      Read further: http://izvestia.ru/news/507349#ixzz2DXAWSeNf


      Although it is very strange that the Ministry of Defense did not begin to develop such a nanotechnological project. Let’s see what Shoigu decides - maybe, by applauding the townsfolk, he will “revive” the useless unicorn geese and “master” a couple of billions under this innovative business
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 28 November 2012 19: 48 New
        +4
        Moscow Region and the Voyentorg building were sold as unnecessary - but the matter was just opened on this occasion ...
        Who knows, maybe they will try to ask someone for cut ekranollans ...
        1. engineer74
          engineer74 28 November 2012 21: 31 New
          +1
          If it is CORRECT to ask the right people, then we have enough money for an atomic aircraft carrier ekranoplan. laughing
      2. not good
        not good 29 November 2012 03: 18 New
        +2
        It won’t surprise if decommissioned ekranoplans emerge in China.
  • engineer74
    engineer74 28 November 2012 19: 10 New
    0
    I am now wary of the interest of the military. It is very difficult to distinguish, without working in the "topic", real R&D from the next "drank bpbl." But as they say, we will see.
  • Locksmith
    Locksmith 28 November 2012 20: 10 New
    0
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Although it is very strange that the Ministry of Defense did not begin to develop such a nanotechnological project.

    Apparently they did not find nano girls, or the redhead did not have time wink . In modern times, it has become absurd to discuss GSh decisions for one simple reason: there are too many civilian women and feminine citizens smile
  • Cat
    Cat 28 November 2012 23: 39 New
    +4
    After reading the article, I remembered the Soviet T-35 tank. Unlike Pelican - not only painted, but also made in metal and even accepted for service.
    I propose to analyze the advantages and disadvantages of this tank according to the method proposed by O. Kaptsov (widely known in narrow circles under the pseudonym SWEET_SIXTEEN). Based on the results of the discussion, come to the obvious conclusion: tank troops are a dead end in the development of military equipment. Since expensive, heavy, clumsy, unreliable, insecure, they consume a lot of fuel and can become easy prey for enemy aviation =)
  • Odessit16
    Odessit16 29 November 2012 00: 00 New
    0
    Good article for Emger var emreiss with Rusarmi. Hello from STRATEG.
  • Happyeeed
    Happyeeed 29 November 2012 00: 46 New
    0
    Will the world end, do you believe the media, what do you think :? We read further: http://www.mykhailenko.com/blog/2009-10-14/starejshiny-plemeni-majya-oprovergli-
    konec-sveta-v-2012-godu.html
  • Avenich
    Avenich 29 November 2012 08: 19 New
    +4
    I could not resist, I wanted to add. My ex-classmate (the former because of graduation) of my daughter’s parents live behind Lake Baikal. It is clear that to visit her parents she had to go around the sea-lake, a day on the train. In Soviet times, airplanes flew over Lake Baikal, imagine, it’s several hours. “Parachiders” also walked, slower of course, but they were faster than a detour on a “paravozik”. But now there are neither airplanes, nor steamboats, nor are there ekranoplanchiki there. Everything turned out to be economically unprofitable, and so the poor girl toiled for all five years, personally for her, apparently this situation is economically profitable. In Russia, there are a huge number of places where there are ekranoplans. The author of the article himself unwittingly became a supporter of this vehicle, placing for comparison the LTX AN-2 with the LTX ET-1. The ekranoplan payload, other things being equal, is more than 2 times greater.
    I myself take off my hat in front of the genius Alekseev, a great engineer who created a number of unique machines including ekranoplanes.
  • alex86
    alex86 30 November 2012 08: 16 New
    +3
    “I feel such a strong personal hostility that I can’t eat” - I’m sorry, the motive is not entirely clear - I understand when some kind of technique Like, you can advocate for him, but speak with such passion против anything (not political, not moral, not religious) - at least, you need to try, develop statistics, experience, albeit negative. If I were a “cheers-patriot”, then with Kabbalist severity, with a raised eyebrow, I would ask - on whose mill are you pouring water? And so I repeat - let all the flowers grow.
  • M. Peter
    M. Peter 30 November 2012 11: 34 New
    +1
    WIG has one advantage, it is impossible to bring down, sink, etc.
    The torpedo will not fire, the rocket will not be pointed, it remains only to visually shoot from cannons, given the speed it is also not very effective.
    Although FIG knows him, so the first thing came to mind.
    1. Antistaks
      Antistaks 2 December 2012 22: 59 New
      +1
      I don’t understand why the rocket will not be brought in, as a person who has been doing GOS for ten years on rockets I can’t understand. As for mines ...... Do you know that there are mines against helicopters?
  • Antistaks
    Antistaks 2 December 2012 23: 09 New
    -1
    Here, pocket ekranoplanes were compared with pocket airplanes. This makes no sense, because they fly at almost the same height. An 2 is an ALTITUDE ekranoplan. But we did want to carry tank divisions and wash carrier formations with one blow. What is the difference between mini and maxi? Dragonflies have SPECIFIC characteristics better than any aircraft. But to increase it to the size of the plane is not possible - learn sapromat. But to compare the ekranoplan with a helicopter is stupid - the ekranoplan does not have a VERTICAL TAKE-OFF function.
    And finally, I thought that the article was pooping. And the poop was less than half. The site is not hopeless - there are more adequate !!!!!!!!!!!
    1. abc_alex
      abc_alex 11 December 2012 10: 03 New
      +2
      APU Orlyonka placed on the nose of the apparatus created excessive pressure under the wing. The consequence of this was precisely vertical (at near-zero speed) landing and take-off.
  • abc_alex
    abc_alex 10 December 2012 18: 15 New
    +4
    Again, an article about ekranoplanes and again after reading a strong desire to advise the author: well, read at least something other than the journal of Lamer opus on the topic!

    Leaving behind the really stupid American project, I would like to remind you that in the USSR there was no excess of money and, most importantly, POWER for engaging in garbage, and therefore you do not need to put Alekseev’s design bureau spotlights, and the USSR Ministry of Defense a gang of dumbasses. Just in case, let me remind you that when distributing funds in the USSR, the Military-Industrial Commission operated, where very competent people worked.

    To begin with, the song about transports like “Algol” evokes a grin. Which supposedly make transport ELs useless. But the author, as it were, “forgets” that the USSR designed these amphibious assault assets not for “war with the monkeys”, but for confrontation with a high-tech adversary, which has overwhelming superiority in the number of NKs in general and AUG in the first place! I would like to see how the “Algoli” would be dragging the landing, provided that the “democratized” serious Navy. When the Germans released “wolf packs” in 2 MVs, they very quickly weaned all countries of the world from stupid things with transporting troops differently than in convoys.

    Eaglet is not a Pelican of course. But he pulled 28 tons at more than 500 km / h into the light. And he was not going to do anything else. :) For the transfer of parts of the marine corps in case of an unexpected landing - completely.
    At such transfer speeds, the enemy’s classic fleet simply DOESN'T SUCCESS in opposing something to the transfer of troops. Physically.

    And even comparing EP with aircraft, cars are completely bizarre in full. For starters, he forgets that the EP is much more economical than an airplane. For example, Eaglet carried its 28 tons of cargo per 1 theater of operations and not 2 as its aircraft counterparts.
    Lun carried 6 Mosquitoes on 2 turbojet engines (the rest were included for a short period only at the start!) :)
    And as for the fact that the devices initially operate in different high-altitude echelons, the author speaks exclusively of minus EP. Obviously forgetting that in a war with a high-tech adversary, "spotted" almost always means "shot down." And in this regard, going to a height of 2-3 meters, the electric field is a tenacious VTA aircraft.

    Well, the author’s arguments about the insignificant usefulness of ES as a striking means, and especially the phrase that with means of protection ES “does not fly up” generally demonstrate profound ignorance. According to testimonials of the KM, it could fly with a load of about 500 tons! Of course not in economy mode, but tell me, what kind of defense system does not fit on it? Ship version of the S-300?


    Well, the last. Author, remember or write down: Fawn MAY FLY. Yes, yes, to break away from the hibernation to a height much larger than a third of the width of the wing and fly like an airplane. :) He flew badly, but he was raised to a height of 1 km.


    So "learn the materiel."
    1. ssss157
      ssss157 8 March 2013 11: 39 New
      0
      Eaglet characteristics

      Crew ………………………………… .6-8 people
      Take-off mass …………………… ..140 tons
      Speed ​​……………………………… .400 km / h
      Flight altitude ……………………… 0,5-6000 meters
      Range …………………………… .2500 km
      Landing capacity: 2 armored personnel carriers or 150 marines in full ammunition

      Data from a documentary
      From the cycle "Impact force" Sea dragon "
    2. yehat
      yehat 10 August 2018 11: 58 New
      0
      Eaglet climbed to 1 km ???
      In the video I saw only flights within a height of 50 meters.
      as far as I know, there was even an emergency due to the fact that they climbed too high.
      By the way, my school friend first saw an eaglet from a gunner’s cabin on a transport plane -
      flew right over him.
      the impression was "do I have glitches?"
  • thick
    thick 14 May 2013 02: 35 New
    +1
    Due to its high speed at sea, the ekranoplane can be used as an aircraft carrier - for example, those bulky aircraft carriers - one ekranoplane - one fighter on board - the airfield will replace the speed of the ekranoplan on which the fighter is docked from above.
    there is enough carrying capacity of an ekranoplan with its head - protection from turtles is not needed - but from enemy aircraft there is already "on board".
    By the way, you can use, if necessary, the thrust of the fighter’s engines - fortunately, you won’t have to spare any fuel - suck directly from the ekranoplan tanks.)
  • alexandrastafiev
    alexandrastafiev 5 May 2014 11: 27 New
    +2
    Alekseev was a great engineer who created a number of unique machines including ekranoplanes. I would have lived at least five years, probably now ekranoplanes would have been many "good and different." And the fact that the "ruined" talented person, like many others, gentlemen, officials, and now we need a new person who can pull this topic, this is already happening in Russia more than once.
  • Arikkhab
    Arikkhab 31 December 2016 15: 56 New
    +2
    after the phrase “taking into account the paradoxical love of the inhabitants of the former USSR for these strange half-ships, half-planes” it’s immediately clear who the author is.
    it’s also clear that “heavy transport aircraft An-124 Ruslan, S-5 Galaxy and S-17 Globmaster easily lift 1-2 main battle tanks and, if necessary, can deliver a group of 50-100 tanks in a short time to any corner of the world "... only how much will such a transfer cost (for example, from the United States to the Middle East) and how long will it take ???
  • Wasiliy1985
    Wasiliy1985 1 January 2017 20: 57 New
    +2
    Well, of course - Oleg Kaptsov! After the first paragraph, he simply leafed through to the end of the article with a secret thought: “suddenly not Kaptsov ?!” But no, my friends!
    Passages in the style of:
    "Alas, Soviet experts who watched the tests of the" monster "with their own eyes, and not with the help of spy satellite cameras, were disappointed with the capabilities of the giant KM ekranoplan (" mock-up ship). "The Caspian monster was eating fuel like the devil (only for dispersal) 30 tons of kerosene was required), and its speed, flight range and efficiency were several times lower than that of a conventional aircraft.In such circumstances, the carrying capacity of a “monster" (200 tons - not so much) did not matter - it was easier, cheaper and faster to make 2-3 flights by transport aircraft. And the very insane appearance of the "Caspian monster", with engines sticking out everywhere, made us think about the meaning of this design. It was not possible to reduce the number of engines, increasing their power - the chief designer Rostislav Alekseev without that was used by the most powerful engines: ten turbojet RD-7 from the supersonic Tu-22 bomber! It is easy to imagine what technical risks were fraught with similar I'm design. " - exclusively in the style of Oleg.
    He alone knows EVERYTHING !!! The rest, even graduates in the service of the USSR, suckers and technical amateurs for one simple reason - they are not "Oleg Kaptsov" (c) TM.
  • Wasiliy1985
    Wasiliy1985 1 January 2017 21: 03 New
    +2
    Well, who is Rostislav Alekseev with his projects of serial hydrofoil ships and really flying ekranoplanes (adopted for service) against the opinion of Oleg Kaptsov ?!
    After all, this Alekseev did not even write anything to Oleg in reply !! Because there are no arguments !!
    Oleg, you can say, in the trash I cut some upstart !!
  • Wasiliy1985
    Wasiliy1985 1 January 2017 21: 09 New
    +2
    Oleg, I hope that I have clearly and quite correctly outlined my attitude towards your "professionalism." In matters of fleet history - your articles are interesting. In matters of the technical development of the fleet (both Russian and international) - your articles: the opinion of an amateur stubborn in his topic, with a bias - "the Russian Navy does not understand anything in the development of the fleet."
    1. yehat
      yehat 10 August 2018 11: 54 New
      0
      the funny thing is that if you look at what the fleet is doing, it’s the impression
      in the Russian Navy do not understand anything in the development of the fleet

      only grows stronger - for example, giant cruisers such as Minsk, or leapfrog with the release of piece projects. Or to make out the history of the creation of aviation cruisers - just a joke.
  • efendia
    efendia April 3 2017 09: 59 New
    +1
    I did not even have time to read the paragraph - I realized who the author is! lol I looked further. Well, you don’t like the ekranoplan, so what? Did you create anything yourself? When the finished one comes back from behind the hillock - then we yell about priority, and bring it to our minds during the time - why?
  • yehat
    yehat 10 August 2018 11: 53 New
    0
    I saw an American vidos where they tested a small single winged craft.
    in my opinion, a good car for small rivers, where an ordinary boat will not pass everywhere.
    quite maneuverable machine, comparable in convenience to a snowmobile.
  • ycuce234-san
    ycuce234-san 29 October 2018 21: 14 New
    0
    Quote: kotuk_ha_oxote
    And why are underwater container ships and gas carriers needed? Incredible operating costs and high cost of ownership.

    Most likely, constructively, such vessels of the future are fully automatic thin-walled metal vessels with civilian versions of nuclear fleet reactors that transport a useful product with a pressure equal to the pressure of the external environment in the depths of the northern seas.
    Cons - high technological complexity (for example, the need to discharge and fill the product at a great depth in the sea from an automatic pipeline so as not to break the vessel with pressure drops), pluses - the ability to carry a lot of liquefied and / or compressed gas or methanhydates, oil, and carry them stably , regardless of ice conditions - stability is valued on the global fuel markets.