Military Review

Catalonia: Goodbye, Spain?

This year, separatists are either winning victory after election in various parts of the world, or are actively making plans for the future.

In the US, active citizens are known to collect signatures on petitions for the withdrawal of many states from the United States. It cannot be said that all the states have gained the number of signatures necessary for the White House to consider the petition, but in the near future Barack Obama will have to answer those two southern states that set records in the number of votes collected - Texas and Louisiana. (At the time of writing this article for the separation of Texas spoke out 117,5 thousand people; for the independence of Louisiana - more than 37 thousand.).

Catalonia: Goodbye, Spain?

Separatists from Parti Quebecois won the fall election (September 4) in Quebec. This party stands for the separation of the province from Canada. In the past, the party held a referendum on separation issues twice: in 1980 and 1995. On the first plebiscite, 59,6% voted against the secession of Quebec, and on the second - 50,6%. A little more party work, a little more struggle, a little more crisis, and Quebec could become a separate state. True, according to a recent public opinion poll, now only 28% of Quebec people supports the idea of ​​the independence of the province. Nevertheless, the victory of the separatist party says a lot. At least, it was with this ruling party that the Quebecians rushed into their future.

In Belgium, Flemish nationalists after winning local elections in Flanders put forward ultimatum to the government. They demanded the transformation of the country into a confederation. On October 14, the New Flemish Alliance party leader Bart de Wever, who received the 38% of votes in Antwerp, became his burgomaster and actually took control of the country's second largest economic center. The Flemish politician said that with French-speaking Wallonia as part of Belgium he was not on the way:

"We have two cultures and two democracies ... Our nationalism is not a goal, but a means of moving towards our own democracy in Flanders."

In 2014 year held referendum on the independence of Scotland. Only one question will be put to the vote: “Do you want complete independence?” Moreover, British Prime Minister David Cameron and First Minister of Scotland Alex Salmond signed an agreement that would allow all Scots over sixteen years of age to vote. But the young Scots are considered the main supporters of sovereignty. However, for the independence of Scotland today advocates from 30 to 40% of Scots, so it’s premature to talk about sovereignty.

Basque Nationalist Party a month ago won in the elections in the Basque Country: in her new parliament 27 seats from 75 (previously represented by 30 deputies). Its ideology: Basque nationalism and the creation of an independent or, at least, autonomous Basque state.

It should be noted that the two Spanish regions - the Basque Country and Catalonia - in total produce about 25% of the country's GDP and occupy 10% of the territory of Spain.

Catalonia has recently confirmed her desire for separatism.

Here, in the early parliamentary elections, the nationalist coalition “Convergence and Union of Catalonia” won. True, at the same time she lost her former position.

KSK I could not get an absolute majority in the regional parliament. And if before it was represented by the deputy 62, now their number has decreased to 50 (30,5% of votes). Thus, the coalition did not receive an absolute majority in parliament (68 seats) necessary to implement the idea of ​​separating the region from Spain.

The second place according to the results of the elections was taken by the “Left Republicans of Catalonia” (21 place, 13,6% of local residents). Third place was taken by the Spanish Socialist Workers Party (20 seats; 14,4%).

Arthur Mas, President of Catalonia and leader of the Convergence and Alliance of Catalonia coalition, is not very pleased with the election results: he will now have to unite with other parties to initiate a referendum.

But he has already found with whom to unite. In Catalonia, in addition to his party, there are two more parties that support secession from Spain - the “Left Republicans of Catalonia” (ERC) and the small party “Candidatura de Unidad Popular” (CUP). Together three parties got 55% of seats in the 135 local parliament.

Nevertheless, the idea of ​​separating Catalonia from Spain and turning it into a separate independent state, as well as a new member of the European Union, is very popular here: about half of the population speaks for them.

Opinion of the Catalan majority in an interview with the Voice of Russia recently expressed the mayor of the municipality of San Pedro de Torello Jordi Fabrega:

“According to polls, more than 53% of the population of the province will vote for the independence of Catalonia in the upcoming referendum, that is, this idea enjoys the support of the majority of the population. As soon as the results of the vote become known - and I have no doubt that the Catalans will vote for independence, we will demand independence from the central government. In case Madrid refuses to fulfill the requirements of the Catalans, we intend to seek our independence through international institutions. I want to emphasize that we are going to act exclusively within the framework of democracy, there will be no riots and violence. As for the national currency, we are more inclined to save the euro, as we plan to become a country - a member of the European Union. We intend to create our own ministries of finance and justice, as well as the National Bank and the Tax Administration. By the way, I don’t see any obstacles for Catalonia’s entry into the European Union, considering that we produce, but don’t ask, because 10% of Spain’s GDP is made here. I think the EU needs a prosperous country that will not ask for debt. ”

If Fabrega called the number in 53%, then, according to the October poll "Center d'Estudis d'Opinio", the separation of the region from Spain Support the 44% Catalans, and another 26% sure that Catalonia needs to become a federal state with greater autonomy.

In the autumn in Barcelona, ​​almost a half million people went to a demonstration for Catalan independence. Such high civic activism was not expected not only by the Spanish authorities, but also by the demonstrators.

Meanwhile, the Catalan independence referendum cannot be legally binding for the central government of Spain. According to the Constitution of 1978, only Madrid has the right to appoint such a referendum. Catalonia or another province has the right to hold referendums only on local issues. Prime Minister of Spain Mariano Rajoy saidthat holding a referendum without the consent of Madrid is unconstitutional, this requires permission from the central government. It is not for nothing that Fabrega mentions that, following the local referendum, the demands of the Catalans to the central government will also be put forward. Undoubtedly, this is precisely the demand for the initiation of the referendum by the official Madrid.

As for joining the EU, Brussels (everyone knows that there is a crisis in Europe) is in no hurry to accept new members. Catalonia, even if it is safely freed from the “yoke” of Madrid, will have to go through all those accession procedures that Spain has previously undergone. By the way, Madrid can vote against the membership of Catalonia.

At a press conference during the Ibero-American Summit in Cadiz, journalists asked European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso if any of the territories leaving the EU Member State would have to go through the EU membership procedure again? Correspondent "Voices of Russia" recorded the answer to Barroso:

“The legal situation has not changed since 2004, since no changes have been made to the text of the Lisbon Treaty on this matter. Therefore, I can confirm with absolute certainty that the position of the European Commission on this issue remains the same ”.

As usual, everything will be decided by the economy. Despite the results of the polls, it is unlikely that in the future the Catalans will really be separated from Spain. Rather, it will be about any special rights or privileges, about trying to bargain for a large share of the Spanish budget.

Catalonia contributes to the budget of Spain about 20% of total GDP, and receives in the form of subsidies and payments about 8% of GDP (pays 12-16 billion euros more than it receives). It is this “unfair” alignment that leads to the growth of nationalist sentiment and the popularity of separatism. Meanwhile, almost four fifths of Catalan goods are sold in Spain. The detached Barcelona will be faced with the question: to whom to sell? After all, Madrid will stop letting this product into its territory. So считает José Raga, professor at the Apostle Paul Catholic University of Madrid. A similar conflict occurred in the 2005 year: the Spaniards, angry with the statements of the Catalan nationalists, stopped buying sparkling wines from the local production, and Barcelona lost several million euros.

Arthur Mas does not have answers to such a clear economic question.

Elderly Kiosk Jose Gaya read Sergey Pankratov, a reporter of the Trud newspaper, a lecture on a bright tomorrow:

“Catalonia is bigger than Belgium, and we have more population than in Denmark or Finland. Gross national product more than in the same Denmark. We are a hardworking people, but the Spaniards take everything from us. Tell me why we should feed the same Andalusia, which lives on state subsidies? ”

S. Pankratov writes:

“A characteristic detail: the lower the interlocutor’s social status, the poorer he is, the more vehemently he proves that in the case of separation he will roll like cheese in butter. But representatives of the middle class - well-paid doctors, lawyers, bank employees - speak evasively about independence. Businessmen, however, are overwhelmingly opposed to divorce. The wine merchant Mariann Laporta says bluntly that if Catalonia disconnects from Spain, his business can be closed. “Where am I with my wine? Every entrepreneur knows how easy it is to lose the market and how difficult it is to get a new one. ”

Spain will suffer economically. Since the country is in a crisis situation, the separation of Catalonia will undermine its already deficient budget, the share of Catalonia in which is almost 19%. In this case, the planned budget deficit for the year 2012 - 6,3%. With the separation of Catalonia, Spain will lose the confidence of markets in the EU. At the same time, the “tightening the belts” program developed in Madrid may simply burst.

Catalonia, on the other hand, can win something, but in many ways even lose.

Last year, Catalonia's GDP was 200 billion euros - more than Ireland (159 billion euros) or Portugal (171 billion euros).

GDP per capita in Catalonia in 2011 amounted to 27.430 euro. This is 19% higher than the average in Spain, 9% higher than in the EU, and only 4% lower than the average in the EU.

The share of industry in the Catalan economy is higher - on the order of 17% of GDP against 12% in Spain.

In recent years, Catalonia has been hit hard by the explosion of the housing bubble and mortgage lending. Real estate prices fell 38% compared with the peak in June 2007.

Catalonia's GDP from 1999 to 2008 increased by 32%, but was 2011% lower in 1,7 than in 2007. In general, in Spain, everything is much worse - minus 3,5%.

The level of debt of Catalonia is currently 22% of GDP - the highest figure among all Spanish regions. When secession, the region would most likely have to assume part of the debt of the central government. In this case, it is unlikely to be destined to enter the EU - according to the Maastricht Treaty, the national debt of the newly entering country should not exceed 60% of GDP, and if Catalonia has to take on part of the Spanish debt, this value can be exceeded.

So, the game is not worth the candle. The new country will not enter the EU quickly, and indeed its chances are slim: Spain will simply veto it. The debt of Catalonia will grow significantly, and the well-being of the Catalans will decrease accordingly. Madrid may block Barcelona goods, and instead of profits, Catalan entrepreneurs will have to count losses. Thus, it is possible to talk about the alleged budget bargaining of the separatists with official Madrid, and not about secession. Another thing is that the results of the referendum, which plans to initiate a coalition "Convergence and Union of Catalonia", and will be a reason for bargaining.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
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  1. InkGrey
    InkGrey 28 November 2012 07: 43
    Yes guys, ambition is dark. Particularly "fun" is the permission to take part in the referendum from such a young age for Scotland. On the contrary, they would raise the bar. It is clear how a 17-year-old boy will vote: "Yeah, independence, we are so independent, we will become Great .. the day after tomorrow .."
    But seriously, separatism is an extremely dangerous thing. It is necessary to have guarantees that the separated region can be self-sufficient and can develop at least at a worse pace than at the moment - otherwise the meaning of this hooting.
    1. sv-sakh
      sv-sakh 28 November 2012 07: 52
      Well, separation has never yielded momentary benefits.
      Naturally, this entails a certain level of crisis.
      1. InkGrey
        InkGrey 28 November 2012 08: 27
        I agree with this, but no matter how it turns out that "we have planned, but something has not been working for 10 years already"
        1. sv-sakh
          sv-sakh 28 November 2012 08: 38
          For more than 20 years now, we have not been able to do it for everyone, but we are all the smarter than the Catalans, including the mountain-sheep republics ...
          Although, the general people are pushing us ... So you see, without such pressure, the Catalans will be able to rise faster.
          It is not the first time in history that the states are fragmented, and contrary to the opinion below, it was not the general people who began the process of fragmentation in Europe. This process has been ongoing since the collapse of the Roman Empire and even earlier ...
          1. Yeti
            Yeti 28 November 2012 19: 48
            Starvation is the basis of separatism. As soon as the sucking has begun, the girls have taken off and run. But this is only the beginning: what is impractical today, tomorrow will become inevitable, America will help them!
      2. tronin.maxim
        tronin.maxim 28 November 2012 08: 31
        Quote: sv-sakh
        Well, separation has never yielded momentary benefits.
        Naturally, this entails a certain level of crisis.

        On the example of the separation of the republics from the USSR (collapse), this is perfectly visible! The consequences on the face!
      3. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 28 November 2012 08: 36
        Quote: sv-sakh

        Well, separation has never yielded momentary benefits.

        This is you about the Baltic countries now laughing
        1. sv-sakh
          sv-sakh 28 November 2012 08: 40
          This is about the entire former USSR, including Little and White Russia (I consider the current names of these countries as abusive and do not have a right to exist)
    2. Blackscorp
      Blackscorp 28 November 2012 08: 59
      People in the so-called rich provinces, republics, etc. looking at the numbers of its GDP, prom. industries think that this will always be the case, but they don’t think about what share in their GDP is brought by other provinces, republics, etc. Therefore, after separation, a deep crisis occurs ... And all this talk about separatism is based only on the personal interests of certain political figures who use only beautiful slogans ..... nothing more ....
      1. Konrad
        Konrad 28 November 2012 14: 53
        Quote: BlackScorp
        People in the so-called rich provinces, republics, etc. looking at the numbers of its GDP, prom. productions think that it will always be so,

        I was in Catalonia (June) and believe me, they will not be lost without Spain!
        1. Blackscorp
          Blackscorp 28 November 2012 15: 56
          Quote: Konrad
          I was in Catalonia (June) and believe me, they will not be lost without Spain!

          You’ll visit there if they suddenly disconnect, then we'll talk .... Thank you for the minus ...
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 29 November 2012 21: 01
            I repeat - I was there and talked with people, but the opinion of those who instructed me in the minuses, they give a damn! Catalonia wants independence and for this it has enough prerequisites - historical, economic, etc. Take care of the problems of Russia, and only they will sort it out with their own without prompting.
    3. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 28 November 2012 11: 50
      For that fought for it and ran! And the United States and Britain have always supported the separatists in non-allied countries, the boomerang flies back! Europe (Spain) least of all I wish conflicts, although revolutions were made with their tacit consent, but the USA and Great Britain should fully experience the taste of revolution! It will be their karmic retribution!
    4. rolik
      rolik 29 November 2012 13: 46
      let’s see where the first stitch that sews a democratic Western society will burst.
      And then how will this tolerant-liberal society do with this stitch. It seems to me that all the "rights" of a person will be instantly forgotten, which this society is so proud of, and which it constantly pokes at us. And the operation will begin to return the breakaway pieces of democracy to the stall. Well, in the mattress, judging by the prepared coffin, the purchase of weapons and the built camps, the word democracy and freedom will be recognized as extremist. And Europe, probably, will not lag behind.
  2. Sakhalininsk
    Sakhalininsk 28 November 2012 08: 01
    Let the geyropa devour the problems of separatism in full! Geyropetsi themselves released the genie of separatism during the collapse of Yugoslavia, and now let them start their usual barrel organ, but it’s somehow not right, but it’s not at all this. The fact has happened. After redrawing the map of Europe to please the United States, active cutters are now getting the soup with their own fat.
    1. Konrad
      Konrad 28 November 2012 08: 41
      Quote: Sakhalininets
      Let the geyropa devour the problems of separatism in full!

      And the Geylins still do not think about sovereignty?
    2. Kaa
      Kaa 28 November 2012 12: 01
      Quote: Sakhalininets
      After redrawing the map of Europe to please the United States, active cutters are now getting soup in the same fat.

      And they also looked at the forecasts of the "restructuring" of the continents after the "end of the world" scheduled for 21.12.12/XNUMX/XNUMX and decided to "split up" in advance ... lol
      1. Yeti
        Yeti 28 November 2012 19: 52
        Quote: Kaa
        they also looked at the predictions of the "restructuring" of the continents after the "end of the world"

        Yes, there is no Europe at all! fellow
        1. WW3
          WW3 29 November 2012 14: 29
          Quote: Yeti
          Yes, there is no Europe at all!

          But pay attention Antarctica has grown ... which just does not prophesy request
          Now only the lazy about the end of the world in 2012 has not said anything yet. So the year 2012 version of the end of the world:
          Collision with a huge asteroid.
          Powerful volcanic eruption.
          Earth Climate Change
          A huge fault near Antarctica with the melting of the entire icy shell of the mainland, and as a result of the formation of a dense cloud cover over the entire Earth, as a result of the Earth’s climate change, the Flood.
          Nuclear man-made nuclear disaster by the reactor.
          Formation of a black hole in the hadron collider and its absorption of the Earth and the Solar system.
          Terrorist flood with the possession of nuclear weapons, their use.
          The spread of genetically engineered uncontrolled deadly virus.
  3. I-16M
    I-16M 28 November 2012 08: 48
    The virus returned to the host.
    We look forward to a Disconnected Europe and the Independent States of America.
  4. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 28 November 2012 08: 49
    but I’m violet about their problems, I need to deal with my slops ...
    1. Yeti
      Yeti 28 November 2012 19: 55
      Quote: sasha 19871987

      and I am violet on their problems, I need to deal with my slops.

      The more problems they have, the less we have slops! yes
  5. Wiruz
    Wiruz 28 November 2012 09: 10
    Well, if they want independence, then let them separate. Better yet, let them ask the "good old" Americans to bomb Spain in the name of democracy. Amer then immediately connect and do not care who is right and who is not.
    1. yustas
      yustas 29 November 2012 10: 01
      Quote: Wiruz
      Better yet, let them ask the "good old" Americans to bomb Spain in the name of democracy

      I don’t think it’s not going to drive, there is no oil there, but what for build a shit democracy without oil? unprofitable and expensive =)
  6. El-bog
    El-bog 28 November 2012 09: 35
    Again in the feudal system. And then on a new one - to unite under some new "leader". Swing....
  7. Dimon Lviv
    Dimon Lviv 28 November 2012 09: 40
    It seems that Catalonia is seriously determined to repeat the mistake of the USSR.
  8. volcano
    volcano 28 November 2012 10: 04
    International laws have specifically laid a time bomb.
    Which one? Yes 2 postulates mutually exclusive
    1. Territorial integrity of the state
    2. The right of a nation to self-determination.

    I am sure that this was done on purpose ... To answer the question by whom? there's no point. just remember where the UN Headquarters is located.

    But the question is WHY? It is very interesting .... I think that it is precisely in order to have levers for the development of conflicts around the world .... When necessary, point 1 will lead to conflict, when point 2 is necessary ....
    The whole point of these two norms (and this is the TRUE SENSE) is to be able to easily create instability in almost any country in the world (a set of countries) ..... and thereby weaken (subjugate, destroy) ..

    tired of amers europe, that's all business then, to launch the mechanism of feudal fragmentation. Will this weaken the EU? Of course yes .... Europe will fall apart like nefig singing to the specific principalities .....
    which are so easy to manage from here ...
    1. knn54
      knn54 28 November 2012 22: 07
      I completely agree. After all, the Arab revolutions bring chaos to Europe. No wonder the USA supports the appetites of Islamic Albania. And is it not time for Mexico to return Texas, Florida. ..
    2. Petrospek
      Petrospek 29 November 2012 14: 40
      not quite so, it's just that this charter was adopted back in the days when Africa, Asia were just parts of empires, at the same time fermentation was already beginning there, and that was an incident - it seems that the country is not divisible, and at the same time - " Are you opposed to the little bamboo in Africa becoming independent from France? " we have a struggle for declonization.
      By the way, at that time the USSR was also profitable.
  9. Edya
    Edya 28 November 2012 11: 13
    There is +/- you can talk a lot about it until you try and understand
    1. wasjasibirjac
      wasjasibirjac 28 November 2012 19: 43
      there will be more disadvantages in dividing or, rather, splitting states into smaller and smaller "islands". as a result, this fragmentation can lead to a "war of all against all." even for us, this circumstance is not ice at all, because can lead to a crisis - which of the "super-kids" will be able to buy our oil and gas, it will be better for them to simply get rid of it ....
  10. baltika-18
    baltika-18 28 November 2012 13: 36
    Recently, there has been a lot of news on this topic, the division of old, well-established countries. It seems that everything happens according to a predetermined scenario. The world is plunged into chaos. Does anyone want to redraw the world map? Is it easier to control small ones? Arab spring, Middle East , unstable Europe, the collapse of the United States, muscle play in the Asia-Pacific region, enhanced armament of countries. Who needs this, who directs the course of development of civilization in this direction?
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 30 November 2012 19: 11
      Necessarily those will tell everything, aha shchazz, dreamed.
      But on the whole it looks that way.
  11. kostello2004
    kostello2004 28 November 2012 13: 41
    If a group of individuals, geographically united, do not like the standard of living in the state, then please, why can’t they be made to live as they want? Catalonia okay. Basques, please. The Caucasus, yes, as much as you like. Siberia, I ask to our hut. No, because there are narrow-minded warriors with categories of thinking of Aristotelian logic such as not to themselves not people, and I will oppress, not give life not within the state to the citizens of this society. In any case, before the planet turns into one confederation, it is definitely waiting for crushing and splitting. And the current geopolitical map will not last in this form for 10 years, including our country. But this is a normal thing called the evolution of society. In order to go ashore, you need to lose fins and gills.
    1. wasjasibirjac
      wasjasibirjac 28 November 2012 19: 45
      Thanks, I don't want such a "forecast". as in the Chinese curse - so that you live in an era of change
  12. Greyfox
    Greyfox 28 November 2012 15: 01
    If I were in Catalonia, I would have looked closely at the "experience" of Ukraine. There, in the 90s, they also shouted that they were feeding impoverished Russia, they had an industry, they had lard, etc. Separated ....
    1. knn54
      knn54 28 November 2012 22: 00
      This mastitis-tore a baby from her chest ...
  13. Edouard
    Edouard 28 November 2012 16: 07
    you need to live in harmony under any circumstances. All the more, behind the back is the centuries-old history that they (all residents of Spain) went through together.

    Quote: kostello2004
    In any case, before the planet turns into one confederation, it is definitely waiting for crushing and splitting.

    the same thing is said about the millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ at the end of time. Before it comes, everyone will share. (read the book of Revelations)
  14. mda
    mda 28 November 2012 16: 37
    Nearly one and a half million people marched for Catalan independence in autumn in Barcelona
    our "oppositionists" can only dream about it ...
    1. Kaa
      Kaa 28 November 2012 18: 29
      Quote: mda-a
      almost one and a half million people came out for a demonstration for ... independence
      our "oppositionists" can only dream about it ...

      Let them dream, somewhere in the region of the Independent Republic of Novaya Zemlya. "We were born to make a fairy tale come true"
      1. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 28 November 2012 18: 42
        Then the Republic of Franz Josef Land is better: on singing islands, brains are aired faster
        1. mda
          mda 29 November 2012 19: 20
          Quote: Ruslan67
          Then the Republic of Franz Josef Land is better: on singing islands, brains are aired faster

          Let’s send it to the Arctic, they’ll grow wiser right away
  15. APASUS
    APASUS 28 November 2012 19: 48
    I do not believe in which departments !! Be it Catalonia! Be it Quebec in Canada! Though Ireland!
    All these nonsense for the independence of the oppressed people (for example, Chechnya) were invented for us !!
    I don’t know how they will act, the collapse of Spain is impossible in principle .................... the authorities will not allow it !!
    1. Pripyatchanin
      Pripyatchanin 28 November 2012 22: 55
      Have to. The Catalans will go to cry at the ECHR if they are not given something there.
      Here we must agree
  16. knn54
    knn54 28 November 2012 21: 56
    So it will reach the Grenada Caliphate.
  17. Pripyatchanin
    Pripyatchanin 28 November 2012 22: 54
    The Yugoslav boomerang returned to the one who launched it.
    And Mr. Rakhoy is doing everything to destroy his SAME country, a kind of Gorbach. When I lived in Spain, there was no separatism. Rather, he was, but not so
  18. zadotov
    zadotov 28 November 2012 23: 22
    History will show that when democracy in Europe reaches its peak, that is, moral, territorial, economic and other decay, again there will come a time of wars and dictators. Believe the future is wonderful!
    1. Pripyatchanin
      Pripyatchanin 28 November 2012 23: 28
      By the way, Adik came to power under very similar circumstances.
    2. carbofo
      carbofo 30 November 2012 19: 13
      There Georgians already restore the monuments to Stalin, THEY know something !!!
  19. WW3
    WW3 29 November 2012 14: 39
    In Spain, now the 2nd wave of the economic crisis and the high unemployment rate is a phot on which separatist sentiments are warmed up ... there are always dissatisfied ... There has long been a Basque separatist group ETA ...
    Surely, many have heard about the modern problem of Spain, the solution of which every now and then tries to find every new government. This is a Basque terrorist organization ETA.

    It is worth noting that the problem of Basque terrorism is inextricably linked with the problem of the existence of the Basque state. Let's plunge a little into history to understand the roots of the problem itself.

    In ancient times, the proud Basque people were not completely conquered by either the Romans or the Germans. They were also able to defend their independence during the Arab conquest of the Spanish lands. But despite this, the Basques never had their own state, they were able to maintain only a certain independence.
  20. EW
    EW 30 November 2012 04: 20
    Next in line is Northern Italy, Scotland, Bavaria, Texas.
  21. Kostay15
    Kostay15 6 March 2020 16: 13
    Spain is a country that every travel enthusiast should visit. Spain is bullfighting and passionate flamenco. Come to Madrid and get acquainted with the sights in the company of the best guide - Ivan Kalinin. On his official website you can see all the excursions and order what you like. Leave your heart in this country, as thousands of tourists do every year.