The Ministry of Defense is interested in the speedy equipping of Russian tanks KAZ "Arena-M"

Work continues on the modernization of various modifications of Russian tanks. Moreover, this is happening against the backdrop of complaints from Ukrainian officials about the fact that Russia "has not lost its production potential, despite numerous sanctions, and today it produces several dozen tanks a day."

According to the press service of "Rostec", the Ministry of Defense expresses interest in the speedy equipping of Russian tanks KAZ "Arena-M" from the holding "High Precision Systems". These are active protection systems with which it is planned to equip, first of all, the T-80BVM and T-90M Proryv tanks.

The Arena-M APS is capable of protecting a tank from both shells and anti-tank grenades, as well as from guided missiles. missiles.

It was noted that the discussion on arming the KAZ "Arena-M" tanks T-72B3 and T-72B3M is at the final stage.

The special directional ammunition of the Arena-M active protection system is placed along the perimeter of the turret and has the ability to provide all-round protection of the tank from weapons fired at it. The active protection system also includes a multifunctional radar with a high degree of interference immunity. It is capable of operating even if the enemy attempts to use the systems EWThe station detects flying targets and transmits a signal for the narrow-focus action of special ammunition.

Comments

[Proton]

Modern classic. Quote from the article:
"It was noted that the discussion on arming the KAZ Arena-M of the T-72B3 and T-72B3M tanks is at the final stage."
Then there will be the final stage, then the final stage of CHATTER, and only then the first stage of decision-making will begin.
At least 30% of officials should be reduced, including officials of the Ministry of Defense.

[certero]

Quote: Proton

At least 30% of officials should be reduced, including officials of the Ministry of Defense.

No, they need to be put into T-62 tanks and into battle.

[Alekseev]

"No, they need to be planted in the T-62 ..."
Naive righteous anger....
By the way, it’s much safer to “sit down” in the new modernized T-62M “wrapped from head to toe” in DZ than in a 72-deuce or T-80BVM, stripped “like sticky” in battles, where half of the DZ containers, screens, etc. will be missing.
As for the APS. It needs to be equipped. Of course. But the main question is: is there a "boy"? That is, is there a reliable APS that remains operational after being shot at with small arms, hit by shrapnel, or hit by small-caliber artillery shells.
Or an expensive display system?
I would like to believe that Arenv M is such a KAZ. God bless. But any system in itself is not a panacea. Only a combination of main armor, remote sensing, grilles, camouflage systems, maneuverability, good visibility and KAZ, among other things, gives a real increase in security.

[Cympak]

about the main question: is there a "boy"? Those. is there a reliable KAZ that remains operational after shelling from small arms, hit by fragments, small-caliber artillery shells.

The practice of the SVO shows that tanks are destroyed by ATGMs from ambushes. No one fires at a tank with small arms or small-caliber artillery until it is destroyed. In general, it is a far-fetched argument.

[malyvalv]

So far, there is no KAZ on tanks. As soon as they put it, they will.

[Bad_gr]

KAZ "Arena-M" are able to protect the tank as from shells and anti-tank grenades, and from guided missiles .....

The maximum speed of the ammunition from which KAZ "Arena" can protect - 70-700 m / s
The initial speed of the sub-caliber projectile -------- 1715 m/s,
The initial speed of the cumulative projectile ZBK-14 - 905 m / s.
ATGM "Attack" has a speed of --------------------------------550 m / s.
RPG-29 "Vampire" rocket speed ----------------------------------255 m/s
9M113 "Competition" - rocket speed ------------------------ 208 m / s
ATGM "Fagot" (Rocket 9M111) medium -------------------- 183 m/s
----------------------------------Maximum --------------- -- 240 m/s
ATGM "Metis" ---------------------medium ----------------180-200 m/s
----------------------------------Maximum --------------- -- 223 m/s

************************************************** ***************************************

"Arena-E" - .... The reaction time of the system was 0,07 seconds.
.... the danger zone of the complex for infantry consisted of 20-30 m and was relatively small; when protective shells were fired, no side lethal fragments were formed. In addition, KAZ provided for an external light alarm that warned the infantrymen behind the combat vehicle about the inclusion of the complex.
... the cost of KAZ for 2006 is $300. ...
.... The mass of the "Arena" reaches --------------- 1300 kilograms.....

[Cympak]

The maximum speed of the ammunition from which KAZ "Arena" can protect is 70-700 m / s

It turns out that it will not protect against FPV drones, light kamikaze drones (like the Lancet or Switchblade 600), since the minimum response speed is 252 km/h.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Cympak

It turns out that it will not protect against FPV drones, light kamikaze drones (such as the Lancet or Switchblade 600), because. minimum actuation speed 252 km/h

If you set it to low speed, then it will start to work on every bird, or on debris from an explosion, somewhere nearby (or on every thrown stone)
PS
And drones should be engaged in electronic warfare and air defense.

[Klaus8691]

They just won't fit in! On their armor instead of protection, you’ll break through them!

[Victor_B]

Quote: Proton

"Noted thatfinal stage is the discussion on the armament of KAZ "Arena-M" tanks T-72B3 and T-72B3M".

And in the morning they woke up ...

[opposite28]

And there will be funds for the purchase and equipping of domestic tank units with Arena-M complexes and other useful equipment.

[Argon]

The main thing in the article is "MO is interested"!

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Argon

The main thing in the article is "MO is interested"!

Exactly, WHO and WHY became interested in this issue only after a year of CBO?!

[vadimtt]

Not after a year of SVO, but since the creation of KAZ

[kapitan92]

Quote: Proton

At least 30% of officials should be reduced, including officials of the Ministry of Defense.

Now try to "scrape" these "commanders" from their places!
Who will be responsible for the reduction list?
As long-term practice shows, those who know their business and have their own opinion will be laid off.

[kapitan92]

Quote: kapitan92

they will cut workers who know their business and have their own opinion.

These will not be cut!
Soon there will be nowhere to hang medals.

[Yorgven]

Make Prigozhin the People's Commissar of Internal Affairs and give the authorities like L.P. Beria, he will quickly make this swamp work.

[Georgy Sviridov_2]

Yep, they shortened it. Not a single full-time employee who is engaged in the construction of shipyards and shipyards, and we are already two freelancers ... I think the same is true in other industry departments. 1 people for the entire shipbuilding industry. I don’t leave work before 2 pm, and there is almost no time to do work, we only have time to write certificates and replies ... And then people ask why factories are built so badly and no one controls the waste of money ...
But because they were downsizing ... There is no one to work ... And there should only be at least 2 officials for each shipyard or a plant / research institute there, we have about 100 subs, so only 200 employees are needed in my department, well, okay , some related, some half-dead, but for normal work you need at least 15-20 people ... To cover at least the main enterprises of the industry ...
And ideally, yes, 2 employees for each subdivision (well, some can be combined), that is, there should be 100 people in the department, so that there is, firstly, succession, and secondly, people not only sat in the office, but could go to objects, get acquainted with them ... That is, for good, only in the Ministry of Industry and Trade it is necessary to add 1000 people precisely to lower positions.
The country needs rockets, but there is no one and no time to work with enterprises, they have been reduced.
PS I only visit enterprises on vacation on my own initiative, only management goes on business trips. We are building factories that have only been seen in the picture...

[Rom8681]

In total, the second year of the NWO.
Having studied and analyzed the enemy's use of anti-tank weapons, our Ministry of Defense made the right decision. Probably in a week all tanks will have APS, and in another week BMPs and APCs.

[Timur_kz]

It suddenly turned out that the anti-tank systems did break through the defense of tanks! Who would have thought before the start of the NWO? They provided for additional, reliable protection - a visor from the corners ... But for some reason these stupid javelins and other NLOs destroy tanks.

[Georgy Sviridov_2]

ATGMs pierce any tanks and tanks that do not pierce will not appear. On the contrary, every year the anti-tank systems will more and more reliably hit.

[figwam]

Finally, what was needed yesterday, but as always, we harness for a long time.

[dmi.pris1]

We haven’t reached harnessing yet. We are looking for a harness. And we are still laughing at the Estonians .. Still a Soviet development, yours ... Many thanks to the "galosh builders", otherwise they drove with bar visors ..

[rocket757]

Work continues on the modernization of various modifications of Russian tanks. Moreover, this is happening against the backdrop of complaints from Ukrainian officials about the fact that Russia "has not lost its production potential, despite numerous sanctions, and today it produces several dozen tanks a day."

. The question is ... why, because of whom, is Russia losing its potential the most, here and there ???
Will someone guess or is the answer already clear / known?

[certero]

I wonder what I just read? Is this news from 2020 or what?
Further commenting on this without specific vocabulary is impossible.

[Konnick]

What is interesting is understandable, but the "Arena" was not accepted into service, it was not even really tested ... There is nothing news or an article about

[FoBoss_VM]

It is necessary to slap one "discussor". As a warning to the rest, according to the laws of wartime ... The rest will discuss everything in a couple of hours, and in a month the kaz will stand on each tank in its own. They don't seem to understand any other way.

[AdAstra]

What are you, what are you, how can we, we are not the 37th.

[rotmistr60]

The Ministry of Defense expresses interest in the soonest equipping of Russian tanks KAZ "Arena-M" ... at the final stage there is a discussion on the armament of KAZ "Arena-M"

In two excerpts from the article, it is clearly seen that the bureaucratic machine continues to flourish in various departments. Is this the usual bureaucracy or the deliberate inhibition of the necessary actions - the question? Sometimes, not being a conspiracy theorist, after certain actions at the top, you begin to think, but is it stupid or intentional?

[Klaus8691]

Yes, apparently all this SVO is deliberate stupidity.

[bairat]

KAZ "Arena-M" are able to protect the tank from shells

They are not capable. Firstly, the sub-caliber projectile flies too fast, and secondly, even if Arena manages to react against the tungsten (uranium) scrap, the shot will not do anything.

[Pankrat25]

Most often, tanks suffer from infantry shelling from various grenade launchers, and they do not have scrap uranium. Helicopters, not tanks, should fight enemy tanks.

[bairat]

Yes, I do not mind, helicopters are helicopters. Just an inaccuracy in the article.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: bairat

KAZ "Arena-M" are able to protect the tank from shells

Not capable.

Let's have some fun with the KAZ "Standart"?
The installation of a promising KAZ ("Standart") provided protection against all types of anti-tank weapons - BPS, armor-piercing cumulative projectiles, ATGMs, including those attacking from above, RPGs and submunitions. Probability of protection against ATGMs; RPG, KS and BPS were 0,8, 0,7 and 0,5, respectively. The action of KAZ within the frontal projection is double, in other areas it is single.

[Konnick]

The installation of a promising KAZ ("Standart") provided protection against all types of anti-tank weapons - BPS, armor-piercing cumulative projectiles, ATGMs, including those attacking from above, RPGs and submunitions. Probability of protection against ATGMs; RPG, KS and BPS were 0,8, 0,7 and 0,5, respectively. The action of KAZ within the frontal projection is double, in other areas it is single.

It was also written on the fence.
These numbers are especially impressive.

Probability of protection against ATGMs; RPG, KS and BPS were 0,8, 0,7 and 0,5, respectively.

Someone considered something that cannot be verified. But for his own account he received money ... theorists ...
It is not specifically indicated from which ATGMs or RPGs, the main thing is to write smartly ...
Science is tricky this theory of probability, it was taught to me back in Soviet times by a corresponding member of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, he received his title for the theory of elasticity of the wheel .... only the wheels still do not know that they should work according to theory.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Konnick

Corresponding Member of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, he received his title for the theory of the elasticity of the wheel .... only the wheels still do not know that they should work according to theory.

Well, maybe he created a theory for special wheels... well, there... for square (!) or in a triangle profile!

[Xenofont]

There are also HEAT shells with a relatively low muzzle velocity. So it's quite a workflow.

[Cympak]

. Firstly, the sub-caliber projectile flies too fast, and secondly, even if the Arena has time to react against tungsten (uranium) scrap, shelling with buckshot will not work.

There is a small chance of BOPS destabilization, which will lead to a significant reduction in armor penetration.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: bairat

The arena will have time to react against tungsten (uranium) scrap, shelling with buckshot will not work.

I'll hint a little ... "buckshot shelling" due to what happens? as a result of the detonation of fired ammunition with buckshot, right? detonation produces a shock wave, right? do you doubt that the shock wave will change the position of the crowbar in space? or do you assume that the penetrating power of the crowbar is the same regardless of whether it hit the target in a normal, stabilized state, or flew sideways destabilized by a shock wave?

[bairat]

yes, I doubt it. the energy of the rotating crowbar is huge, the impact of the shock wave will not be so significant as to speak of some kind of protective effect.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

There are no words, we lost tanks and crews in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Georgia, our armored vehicles were on fire in Syria, in Ukraine we have already lost more than 1000 tanks alone, and someone in Rostec is still discussing the KAZ Arena, whether to install it or not, created 30 years ago.

This is sabotage and betrayal!!!

KAZ must be immediately put on tanks and immediately work on its improvement !!!

[aars]

KAZ is a radar, a calculator, a bunch of keys, etc.
Most likely there are problems with production
Yes - she's as old as mammoth feces
But there are also problems with the Soviet kit, for example, many ALS (indicator) stupidly ended

[Oleg Ogorod]

In the scoop, I remember they were made in Moscow on Sapphire. But this is Moscow, the land is expensive there, so Sapphire seems to have left horns and legs ...
Moreover, the Yeltsin government diligently destroyed the electronics industry, like the aircraft industry, as the defense industry.
And now there are serious problems with the electronic kit for the defense industry.
And the output of the defense industry (capacity) is now designed to work in peacetime, for exhibitions, parades and the media.
Now we are reaping the benefits of this.
Of course, it cannot be said that nothing has been done all these years. But if you wanted to, you could do more and better.
Well, we shouldn't forget that we live in the conditions of capitalism, private and state, therefore the price tags on military products are very high, and if we buy according to the need, then we will soon repeat the fate of the USSR, where the decisive role was played by an empty refrigerator at home and cockroaches instead of goods on store shelves.
Well, and the conservative, hardened old men from the Politburo...

[aars]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

Yes, even the Yeltsin government

Even so, decades have passed since then ...
And "Sibselmash" was destroyed and plundered in 2013 ...
And now there are not enough shells
Many such examples
Under Yeltsin, the legacy of the USSR was still oooooo!

[biznaw]

Well, conservative hardened elders from the Politburo ...

So after all, even now the elders have been sitting in the Kremlin for 70 years. And they had to make room and retire to carve pinocchio wood or breed bees. Then there would be no this disgrace created by the state officials. Look at Putin, how much he has passed over the past year and there is no one to lend a shoulder to him, just the same incapacitated grandfathers falling into insanity.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: biznaw

So after all, even now the elders have been sitting in the Kremlin for 70 years. And they had to make room and retire to carve pinocchio wood or breed bees.

But they had already made room for the young: Gaidar, Chubais.... Many fresh ideas were introduced in the country.

[Cympak]

KAZ is a radar, a calculator, a bunch of keys, etc.
Most likely there are problems with production

Most likely there are problems with the electric generator installed on the tank to power the new equipment.

[Konnick]

someone in Rostec is still discussing the KAZ Arena, whether to install it or not, created 30 years ago.

So it was not completed, but only promoted for foreign buyers, and therefore it does not exist. If it were this system, then it would have been on tanks for a long time, since tankers are more interested in the Ministry of Defense

[anclevalico]

Is there anything left to equip? T-54? Maybe it's time to think about how to hang KAZ on the T-34?

[tank64rus]

The T-54 was equipped with the world's first serial KAZ "Drozd" small series. Then everything slowed down, as always, and then buried.

[AdAstra]

And what, could not be interested?

[Egor Adashev]

Commentators are such commentators, they shouted "where is KAZ, why don't they put it", then they decided to put it, it immediately began "We needed it yesterday, but today we don't need it for nothing", it seems that some people are always unhappy

[vadimtt]

It was necessary not yesterday, but the day before yesterday, the operation of serial Arenas would have revealed shortcomings (and there are some), successful modifications would have already gone into the series. And now we have that we have nothing. And the infantry must be weaned from huddling up to tanks, and this is safer and easier not under bullets on the front end, but at training grounds in peacetime.

[Mikhail Kononov]

"Arena-M" is not a panacea for all ills. But it is better to have it standing than nothing at all.

[Zaurbek]

There is no panacea for "all ills". The tank should calmly shoot at its range and ATGMs should not fly back. And stray shots from RPGs should be repelled. Everything else is correct or incorrect tactics

[Zaurbek]

Moreover, this is happening against the backdrop of complaints from Ukrainian officials about the fact that Russia "has not lost its production potential, despite numerous sanctions, and today it produces several dozen tanks a day."


Analysts from 404 couldn't understand this at the very beginning of 2014? To do this, it is necessary to strike at UVZ with the destruction of production and at metallurgy enterprises. It was not for nothing that Comrade Stalin moved it further away from the western borders.

[Hey]

I read it, everyone is discussing protection against fast-flying weapons. And from the UAV will this system work?

[Cympak]

If the minimum speed of the intercepted target is 70 m/s (252 km/h), then Arena will not be able to intercept kamikaze drones, whose speed is usually less than 200 km/h.

[Vashek]

Arena-M differs from the Arena in that the BP that has flown out of the mine can turn with a squib and even bring down the Javelin at the same time. The thing is not bad, but Ch. died. the designer and Afghanit, the grandson of Drozd, flooded Armata.

[Kirill Prozorovski]

If the protection system is not more expensive than the tank. Although the crew is more important.

[biznaw]

And where were you all dressed up before? Were you at biathlon festivals and parades with self-propelled models of Armata? Were you wildly busy sawing up the budget? Are the wives of Shoigu's deputies and sons-in-law wandering around enemy Courchevel, why?
Why haven't the thieves of the military budget Chemezov and Shoigu been shot at the Kremlin Wall yet?

[Qas]

Do you remember the name of their (and our, general) boss?

[IVZ]

The Ministry of Defense expresses interest in the speedy equipping of Russian tanks KAZ "Arena-M" from the holding "High-precision complexes"

Strange wording. Lack of specifics - either a PR move covering tender places in case of disruption of work, or calming down the so-called. public opinion due to the unavailability (underdevelopment) of the system and the delay in the timing of its implementation.

[yanus]

I have no doubt that in the comments everyone kicked MO for its slowness. All the great managers / commanders ...
However, the technical aspect is completely incomprehensible. Did the Arena confirm the declared characteristics during tests, how much time is needed for improvements, how much time is needed to start production, what are the problems in integration into the tank (for example, the APU is needed), etc.

If KAZ is issued to at least one tank battalion, the effect will be like the appearance of HIMARS at the front. Ukrainians will need to rebuild tactics. In general, the very fact that tanks are coming at you, and you can’t do anything with them, will greatly affect the infantry of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

[tank64rus]

The first KAZ was created in the USSR. A small series of KAZ "Drozd" in the USSR is installed on the T-55. Then the Gobi came to power. EBN etc. The developments and the KAZ series were buried for a long time with everything else. About "Arena-M", look at the advertising booklets of arms exhibitions over the past 10-15 years and you will see this KAZ. And why it is not in the series, like other new designs, is a question for the Moscow Region and the military-industrial complex. And finally, we have already heard about the KAZ series more than once, but so far the serial production of KAZ is only in Israel.

[alexxxxz]

It seems that the author took the news out of a dark corner of a dusty closet and threw it on the fan. This Arena is XNUMX years old at lunchtime and there is talk of equipping tanks with it for the same amount of time.

[woodcutter]

Kaz was developed a long time ago. It is strange that it is still not on the tanks of the Russian Federation