Military Review

Why not judge the winners? Once again about the war crimes of the second world

56
We love to judge. Everyone at his level. Just because it is inherent in human nature. Show yourself and others that you also have an opinion, you can reasonably evaluate the facts and so on. But lately I have increasingly come across attempts to judge our past. And these attempts, but rather attempts, cause disgust with its content. And I will try to give my assessment of some facts.

So, September 2 ended World War II. In it, naturally, there were both winners and losers. And, accordingly, immediately after the end, the first began to judge the second. Three processes were carried out: Nuremberg (20 November 1945 through 1 October 1946 of the year), Tokyo (3 May 1946 through 12 November 1948 of the year) and Khabarovsk (25 through 30 December 1949 of the year).

I brought the Khabarovsk trial only because war criminals were tried there. But we were tried by Stalin’s bloody executioners, so apparently no one was sentenced to death.

Next, let's look at the main points of accusations against war criminals.

1. Murder and ill-treatment of civilians in the occupied territories and on the high seas.
2. The removal of the civilian population of the occupied territories into slavery and for other purposes.
3. The killings and cruel treatment of prisoners of war and soldiers of countries with which Germany was in a state of war, as well as persons who were sailing on the high seas.
4. The aimless destruction of large and small cities and villages, devastation, not justified by military necessity.
5. Germanization / Japonization of the occupied territories.

The points are absolutely fair, the punishments suffered by the defendants, too. It is indisputable and I do not intend to discuss it. However, I really want to give a list of events that, under a certain scenario, could not be discussed by opponents of the Axis countries, but on the contrary, by their participants.

For what? But for what. There are a lot of resources on the Internet where the atrocities of the Soviet army are discussed avidly. I will give examples of war crimes taken from the Internet using an elementary search. He entered the search for "Soviet war crimes" and looked at what they imputed.



1. Katyn. Mass killings of captured officers of the Polish army and citizens, carried out in the spring of 1940. According to published archival documents, all were shot 21 857 Polish prisoners.

2. The massacre in Naliboki is a massacre perpetrated by Soviet partisans on the civilian population of the Belarusian village of Naliboki (in Nalibokskaya Pushcha, now the territory of Belarus) 8 in May 1943 of the year. As a result of the massacre, a 128 man died, including three women, several teenagers and a 10-year-old boy. The cause of the attack was the collaboration of the local population with the Polish Home Army.

Why not judge the winners? Once again about the war crimes of the second world


3. "Mefkura" - Turkish two-masted sailing-motor schooner, capacity 53 brt, displacement 120 tons, was built in 1929 year. During the transportation of Jewish refugees from Romania, 5 August 1944, was sunk in the Black Sea by a Soviet submarine, 315 Jews were killed from 320.

4. The massacre in Przyszowice is an event in the village of Przyszowice, in the Geraltowice commune, when from January to January, November and February, soldiers of the Red Army killed dozens of villagers.

According to a number of modern Polish researchers and publications based on the findings of the investigation launched by the Polish Institute of National Memory in 2005, this event is a war crime. Various information on the number of victims is reported, which varies from 52 to 60 or possibly 69. On the memorial plaque installed in 2005 - the name 44.

5. The massacre in Kanyukai - the massacre of Soviet partisans over the Polish population of the village Kanyukai (Polish. Koniuchy: Grooms) 29 January 1944. On that day, a group of Soviet partisans, led by G. Zimanas, entered the village and persecuted the local population, killing 46 people of Polish nationality, including 22 under-aged. All those killed were local residents, which the guerrillas incriminated collaborationism.

How do you? Me too. You can continue the list, but I do not see the point, because for some reason there are no thousands of figures.

I already wrote about the “successes” of the Japanese in this field, now I would like to look at our allies. Moreover, I will try to do it fairly impartially. I, for example, do not consider the war criminals of the American infantry who captured Dachau, and, seeing what was going on there, simply peremochki all guards. I will repay, no more. But there are points to which it would be worth paying attention.

Come on.

1. Fight in the sea Bismarck.
Japanese convoy from Rabaul was discovered aviation Allies March 1, 1943, the first air attack, he suffered March 2. As a result, one transport was sunk, and two more were damaged. On March 3, the massive allied air attacks repeated. This time they were more successful, only four Japanese destroyers managed to avoid damage, four more destroyers and all remaining transports were sunk or badly damaged. On the night of the third to the fourth of March, 8 torpedo boats approached the site of the defeat of the Japanese convoy, which discovered and sank burning vehicles. On March 4, aviation finished off two seriously damaged Japanese destroyers.

At first glance - the usual battle, very good for the Allies and ended in disaster for the Japanese. Where are the war crimes here? I will quote the official American historian, Harvard University professor Samuel Eliot Morison. With the support of US President F.D. Roosevelt and having access to any archives, he wrote a fundamental work "History United States Naval Operations in World War II, considered one of the best and most detailed studies of the actions of the US Navy and the forces that support it. In the sixth volume, describing the events that took place 4-5 March in the Bismarck Sea, he writes: “Meanwhile, the planes and torpedo boats engaged in the destruction of the surviving Japanese, who were on rafts, boats and wrecks of ships. The fighters ruthlessly bombarded everything that was on the surface on a low-level flight ... The torpedo boats launched their guns and dropped depth charges in three boats that sank, having more than a hundred people on board. ”The Japanese lost more than three thousand people. Today, it is probably impossible to calculate how many people they lost in battle, and how many died during the brutal and contrary to the norms of international law, the destruction of people fleeing from sunken ships.
If this is not a violation of Section 1 of the Nuremberg List - I apologize.

But this is me ... for starters.



2. Dresden.
A series of bombardments of the German city of Dresden, carried out by the Royal Air Force of Great Britain and the United States Air Force 13 — 15 in February 1945 of the year during the Second World War. As a result of the bombing, about a quarter of the industrial enterprises of the city and about half of the remaining buildings (urban infrastructure and residential buildings) were destroyed or seriously damaged. According to the US Air Force, traffic for several weeks was paralyzed through the city. Estimates of the number of deaths varied from 25 thousands in official German reports from the war to 200 and even 500 thousands. The bombing of Dresden was used by Nazi Germany for propaganda purposes, while the number of dead was inflated by Goebbels to 200 thousand people, and the bombing itself seemed completely unjustified. In the USSR, an estimate of thousands of victims in 135 was adopted. 1946 (Report of the Joint Relief 1941-1946) data from the International Red Cross from 275 thousands of dead.

This is not a crime under p. 4?

3. Hamburg
A series of "carpet bombing" of the city, conducted by the Royal Air Force of Great Britain and the US Air Force on July 25 - August 3 1943, as part of Operation Gomorrah. As a result of the air raids more than 50 thousand people died, about 200 thousand were injured.



4. Tokyo.
Bombing of the Japanese capital by the US Air Force 10 March 1945. The X-NUMX strategic bombers B-334 participated in the air attack, each of which dropped several thousand tons of incendiary bombs and napalm. As a result of the firestorm formed, fires quickly spread to residential areas built up with wooden buildings. At least 29 thousands of people died, more likely death toll - over 80 thousands.



5. Hiroshima.
The death toll from the direct impact of the explosion ranged from 70 to 80 thousand people. By the end of 1945, due to the effects of radioactive contamination and other post-explosion effects, the total number of fatalities ranged from 90 to 166 thousand people. After 5 years, the total number of deaths, taking into account deaths from cancer and other long-term effects of the explosion, could reach or even exceed 200 000 people.



6. Nagasaki.
The death toll at the end of 1945 was from 60 to 80 thousands. After 5 years, the total number of deaths, taking into account deaths from cancer and other long-term effects of the explosion, could reach or even exceed 140 000 people.

So, dear. Is not the Truman Nobel Peace Prize for Hiroshima and Nagasaki worthy? And Lamey for Tokyo? And Harris for Dresden? It is worthy, these respected peacemakers. Honor and praise them, oblivion from Nuremberg and The Hague.

But all this pales in comparison with the last item.



7. Heilbronn, Koblenz and many others.

On this subject, oddly enough, almost complete silence. Well, there was this, though you burst! We are talking about the dead German prisoners of war in the Allied concentration camps for the Wehrmacht.

It is nothing less than a million. Although of course, this figure has been challenged several times. And maybe not quite true. But, having rummaged enough in the stories and facts of the Second World War, I definitely take it for granted. And that's why:

Canadian writer James Buck, in his book Other Loss, stated: in April – September 1945, the Allies starved Million German prisoners of hunger. This accusation caused a flurry of complaints of “negligence and fraud”. At the same time, the most tough critics of Buck admit that the camps were very poorly supplied with food. The ration of the US soldier was 4 thousand kilocalories per day, and the captured German - only 1,2 thousand kilocalories, that is, three times less. Although this rule was not fulfilled: the prisoners did not receive food and water on the 3-4 of the day. At the same time, the warehouses of the US Army in Germany were overstocked with food: corn and canned food were sent back - with the postscript: "We have no place." This fact gives Baku the right to say: the Allies killed the captured Germans intentionally - especially since, according to the new DEF status (“the disarmed forces of the enemy”), they did not fall under the Geneva Convention - they were not allowed the Red Cross and strictly prohibited receiving food parcels. The official biographer of the commander-in-chief of US troops Eisenhower, Stephen Ambrose (died 2002), acknowledged in his interviews that the prisoners were starving, and the food in the warehouses was. “But we were afraid of a stronger famine and cannibalism in Germany, and that was why we took care of food,” he gives an absolutely fantastic excuse. Ambrose said: The US Army confiscated 13,5 million tons of food from the Red Cross warehouses. It’s not clear where they went - the Germans didn’t get ... a single gram.



“We were only guarded,” recalls the former Wehrmacht soldier Michael Pribke in an interview with Gennady Zotov (“AiF”). 65 years ago, he hit the camp at Koblenz. - All the prisoners slept in the rain, in the wind, lying in the mud like pigs. True, even pigs fed! Sometimes they brought food - they gave potatoes a day. Later I met my uncle, and he told me - and you know, in Berlin, the Russians fed Germans porridge from their field kitchens! This really surprised me. ”

All the survivors of the special camps of the US Wehrmacht in Germany, with whom Zotov managed to communicate, claimed: the death rate in captivity was very high, and the official figures of 10 thousand deaths of prisoners were complete nonsense. Even the Weekly PW & DEF Report for September 8, 1945 (it is stored in the archives of Washington) publishes other report figures: in the first week of autumn alone, 13 German prisoners died in the camps.

In addition, there is a letter from the head of the Red Cross, Max Huber, to the Commander-in-Chief of the United States troops, Eisenhower. Huber asks for permission to bring canned food to the camps, to which the refusal follows: "You are forbidden to transfer food to enemies." “Many captives and civilians from West Germany died of starvation in May – December 1945, which was not observed in the USSR’s occupation zone,” writes historian Richard Dominic Wiggers. - I can not say whether it was organized by the US occupation authorities. Perhaps the military chaos is to blame. ” Military experts from Germany said: the figure in MILLION of the dead Germans can be disputed, but the juggling of data by the US Army is a fact that is beyond doubt. Konrad Adenauer (Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany in 1949-1963) raised a question in the US Department of State: what happened to the 1,5 million prisoners? He received no answer. American historian Albert Koudri, criticizing the findings of Buck, calls the number in 56 285 starved German soldiers. But even they are higher than the official five and a half times!

Notice, this is not written by the Germans. Not Russians. This is written mainly by Americans. Who had their own concepts of honor and conscience. Who had a look at the war. If a German had written it, I would have thought. But when the Anglo-Saxons write to themselves in this way ... I spread my arms.

From an interview with M. Pribke (contained in Heilbronn) G. Zotov: “I think everyone in Russia has seen the shooting of SS concentration camps. The Germans treated the Russians inhuman, monstrous. And I can understand your soldiers, if they are not almond with us. But what did we do to the Americans if they simply starved us like rats? ”

According to statistics, 57,5% of prisoners from the USSR died in Nazi captivity. 35,8% Germans have not returned from our camps. These have often reproached in newspaper articles. There, of course, it is not mentioned that the majority of the Nazis were captured in 1941-1944, at the most hungry time, and the majority of Germans remained in the USSR until 1953 by the Nazis didn’t die of hunger - the ration of prisoners in the USSR was 2533 kilocalories : twice as many as in US camps. And if you believe the evidence the author of "Other losses" in US custody in just six months buried in the same number of Germans, as we have for eight years!

Strange, right?

Propaganda is a great thing. We only do what we are justified for the victory. In the war that surpassed all the previous cruelty, anything happened. But when not even opened, but just looking at the facts, you see -, there are many who still catch those who teach you morality condemns behaved prisoners and civilians even worse ... This is not only against the British and Americans as possible ( and I will definitely do it). And then immediately it is distributed: “It was a long time ago, it is not confirmed by documents, why stir up the past at all?” Indeed, absolutely nothing. For them, rewriting the story, brazenly and unprincipled. But there are still those who ruffled, ted, and will continue to stir up the past, for the edification of the future.

And it is not always necessary to judge only the vanquished.

Yes, it is written somewhat messy, but that's how it happened.

Sources:
www.wars20century.ru
www.poteryww2.narod.ru
www.aif.ru www.2stats.com
www.liewar.ru
www.wintersonnenwende.com
"AIF" №№ 36,37,38 for 2010
Author:
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  1. Sakhalininsk
    Sakhalininsk 27 November 2012 08: 22
    +12
    Interesting article.
    Many thanks to the author for indicating the impudent Saxons incriminated by the shitty community and their faithful -opaliz "crimes" ... to put it mildly, to look at the background of the acts of the WWII of the most "humane" and "correct" insolent Saxon military, like minor leprosy of a preschool child next to deeds of Chekotilo.
    The West intentionally inflates the hysteria about the Eastern barbarians, hiding behind its heart-rending screeching squeal, caught on the fraud of the bazaar merchant, its true snout, which is not even in fluff but in boar bristles.
    1. Blackscorp
      Blackscorp 27 November 2012 10: 53
      +14
      “We were only guarded,” recalls the former Wehrmacht soldier Michael Pribke in an interview with Gennady Zotov (“AiF”). 65 years ago, he hit the camp at Koblenz. - All the prisoners slept in the rain, in the wind, lying in the mud like pigs. True, even pigs fed! Sometimes they brought food - they gave potatoes a day. Later I met my uncle, and he told me - and you know, in Berlin, the Russians fed Germans porridge from their field kitchens! This really surprised me. ”

      This is the whole Russian soldier and the Russian people! We are merciless to our enemies, but until he raised his hands up the hill .... This is how we differ from the Western "barbarians" .... For them, at this moment, the most "relish" begins .... because for it is very pleasant for them to mock and humiliate defeated enemies ...
      1. baron.nn
        baron.nn 27 November 2012 16: 31
        +2
        BlackScorp:
        Leo Tolstoy describes the case when Denisov captured a noble Frenchman in 1812, then first hit him in the face, then ordered him to be given vodka for warming and taken to a warm convoy ... The Russian soul is wide!
      2. nnz226
        nnz226 27 November 2012 18: 39
        +3
        it is not clear why the word "barbarians" is put in quotation marks? They are all in the West without quotes - BARBARS !!!
      3. Chaplain
        Chaplain 28 November 2012 00: 21
        +2
        That is precisely for this reason: Russians do not give up! And my opinion does not make sense to give up if you die worse than cattle in captivity.
    2. baron.nn
      baron.nn 27 November 2012 16: 29
      +6
      Sakhalinets:
      Those who shout to us loudest about our alleged problems, they themselves experience them the most !!! They charge for the murder of Polish officers, but at the same time forget how the same officers tortured many Russians in their camps in 21! They impute the signing of the Molotov-Libentrop Pact, but forget about the partition of Czechoslovakia! This list goes on! You have to be smarter and just give up on these fucking Western queers and liberals and just calmly develop in your own way, arranging a normal life for your population !!!
      1. Ghenxnumx
        Ghenxnumx 28 November 2012 12: 39
        +2
        Quote: baron.nn
        This list goes on! You have to be smarter and just give up on these fucking Western queers and liberals and just calmly develop in your own way, arranging a normal life for your population !!!

        Forget ... I do not agree, because "human rights activists" and other ... rastas are beginning to shout about the atrocities of the Soviet Union at all corners. It is better to introduce a law on distortion of memory that is legally competently verified in order to shut up all the filthy mouths that obscure history and distorting facts.
  2. homeland
    homeland 27 November 2012 08: 22
    +12
    I don’t understand one thing, why our Foreign Ministry doesn’t poke the USA with these dirty crimes ...
    1. Papakiko
      Papakiko 27 November 2012 10: 07
      -7
      And how can you poke someone into something if you yourself are trampled on the most ...?
      Let the Delaware-Mohicans, Japanese, Germans, Iraqis, Afghans, etc. etc. try to "poke". "Business is business, nothing personal" wink
  3. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 27 November 2012 09: 02
    +2
    Well, one of the conditions has always been - winners are not judged!
    For this reason, I have always been doubtful of different tribunals - use the right of the winner, punish as you see fit, but don’t have to make any snot with supposedly justice ...
    1. Roman Skomorokhov
      27 November 2012 21: 40
      0
      Peculiar.
      This incident from my youth reminded me. We walked together with a colleague since the birthday of another one. Well, it was evening time, they bumped into a gopa whoops, there were eight of them. Well, this and that began ... Lech could not resist and said: "You will decide quickly, we either beat the muzzle, or fuck the brains, and that time later."
  4. omsbon
    omsbon 27 November 2012 09: 14
    +1
    Fucking double standards.
    No, and never was, the conscience of the overseas allies. Amer’s mongrel doesn’t have it either.
    Therefore, poke your face in the shit they need to be crowded and every time they spoil.
  5. understudy
    understudy 27 November 2012 09: 44
    +7
    The question with Katyn is very controversial, as is the statement about "Stalin's executioners".
    1. hommer
      hommer 27 November 2012 13: 55
      +3
      Quote: Understudy
      The question with Katyn is very controversial, as is the statement about "Stalin's executioners".


      The question with Katyn after April 16, 2012 is now indisputable
      On that day, the judgment in the case “Janowiec and Others v. Russia” (applications no. 55508/07 and no. 29520/09) was announced at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. The decision was adopted by the Fifth Section of the ECHR, composed of: Dean Spielman (Luxembourg, Chairman of the Section), Karel Jungvert (Czech Republic), Boštyan Zupancic (Slovenia), Anatoly Kovler (RF), Mark Villiger (Liechtenstein), Anna Yudkivskaya (Ukraine), Angelika Nussberger (Germany) with Secretary Stephen Phillips at a closed meeting on 20 March 2012
      The general point of the decision is to refuse the claim!.

      After that, Polish government officials will not wake up this issue.
      1. Roman Skomorokhov
        27 November 2012 15: 46
        +5
        Quote: Understudy
        statement about "Stalin's executioners".


        Oh god ... nothing that was sarcasm? there it was written in Russian that the Stalinist executioners could not endure a single death sentence !!! Unlike Nuremberg and Tokyo.
      2. bootlegger
        bootlegger 27 November 2012 16: 04
        +1
        It seems to me that it was just the ECHR that was guided by the elementary instinct of self-preservation. There is no need to deceive. There can be no solidarity in this position with Russia.
        These gentlemen, from the ECHR, would love to do, if the opportunity arises, Russia any nasty things and admit any demand. But here the situation is different.
        Recognizing the demand of the Poles, they would automatically castrate themselves. From Russia, the activities of the ECHR have long been looked askance for a long time. And the decision to recognize this lawsuit by the ECHR would simply go too far and lose the opportunity to spoil further, albeit little things.
        After such a decision, Russia would spit on all the legal institutions of Europe and stop responding to them. And they would completely lose their influence on us.
        Naturally, the ECHR did not like this scenario.
      3. Alexander 1958
        Alexander 1958 27 November 2012 18: 43
        +2
        Good afternoon!
        Have you read this regulation yourself or simply retold publications on other sites? As far as I understand, there is no question of any denial of the execution of the Poles! The lawsuit was completely different, namely, that the relatives of the victims were not provided with documents on that. that they (relatives) were shot by the NKVD.
        That is, a completely different issue was considered, and on this and other sites they give out wishful thinking. Personally, I would also like that ours would not be involved in this, but so far the point has not been set. The most important thing that I would not want to - again act as excuses - let the Poles first tell how they treated the captured Red Army during the Soviet-Polish war of 1921.
        And the fact that the topic does not pop up is temporary - it means Russia is now more needed and stronger than before and there is no point in touching this issue
        Alexander 1958.
  6. sq
    sq 27 November 2012 09: 48
    +3
    amers and others like them only pretend to be civilized. In fact, their thinking is practically no different from the cave: to get drunk on their own and not to give another, to use their female and all who can be reached, for a change to beat someone weaker.
    After their screams about "civilization and universal human values" I want to become such a savage with a VERY BIG club and drive them my "savage" notions of decency.
  7. Prometey
    Prometey 27 November 2012 09: 55
    -1
    Hamburg, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki - it may also be enough to whine over these pseudo-crimes. There was a war and the warring parties chose their methods of mutual destruction. 100% sure that if Germany had the same number of bombers, they would have also arranged crematoria for English and Soviet cities, just as the Japs would never have experienced the pain of conscience if they had nuclear weapons in their hands.
    1. Blackscorp
      Blackscorp 27 November 2012 10: 50
      +2
      Maybe so, but for the same thing, the Japs and the Nazis were tried .... especially what is the use, from a military point of view, in the destruction of these cities? but still the main topic of the article is the attitude towards prisoners of war ... Or do you think this is also part of the war?
      1. vyatom
        vyatom 27 November 2012 11: 45
        0
        We did not start this war. Therefore, the winners are not judged.
      2. Prometey
        Prometey 27 November 2012 11: 49
        0
        Blackscorp,
        The Nazis were tried, but Japan was treated much milder, at least the main Japanese war criminal - the emperor came out of the water dry, keeping a crown on his ears. Attitudes toward prisoners of war are naturally part of the war, and as a rule, everything that is signed before the war is violated during the war (the rights of prisoners of war have never been respected and are not respected to this day). Naturally, the destruction of cities by carpet bombing is barbarism, but to expose the Germans and Japanese as victims only is absurd. They committed atrocities to no lesser extent.
        1. Blackscorp
          Blackscorp 27 November 2012 15: 50
          0
          Quote: Prometey
          but exposing Germans and Japanese solely as victims is absurd.


          I did not say this .... God forbid from this .....

          Quote: Prometey
          The Nazis were tried, but Japan was treated much milder


          The Nazis were sentenced to 12 death sentences, 3 to life, 4 to various terms. Total -19
          Japs 7-death penalty, 16 for life, 3 - died in prison, 2 to various terms, 1 - went crazy. Total - 29
          I do not think that Japan was treated much milder .... And they both got what they deserved ....
          About the emperor link:
          http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A5%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE в любых действиях или без действиях всегда нужно искать чью-то выгоду.....
    2. Fox
      Fox 27 November 2012 10: 52
      0
      Quote: Prometey
      if Germany would have as many bombers

      if the grandmother had ... th, she would be a grandfather!
      1. Roman Skomorokhov
        27 November 2012 21: 43
        0
        Quote: Prometey
        may also be enough whining on these pseudo-crimes.


        Actually, there is no whining. And this is not a pseudo-crime, but a crime, whatever one may say. But the matter was not about poor Germans and Japanese, but about those who made them using such methods. About the Americans and the British.

        The essence of the question is whether they have the right to judge someone (including us) for our alleged crimes?
    3. xan
      xan 28 November 2012 01: 23
      +1
      Prometey,
      Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are war crimes. when these cities were destroyed, the outcome of the war was clear. in general, in a week, ours entered Dresden.
      you just wrote a post for seed, or dumb
  8. Helgi
    Helgi 27 November 2012 10: 48
    +2
    Thank you to the author ... We are waiting for new publications from you on the falsification of our history and the Great Victory in particular
  9. Fox
    Fox 27 November 2012 10: 50
    +2
    article + ... for the author’s labors: bold + ... I have all this in books, but to print and upload .... I'm very lazy. author well done.
  10. Vanek
    Vanek 27 November 2012 12: 05
    0
    But this is me ... for starters.

    Already interesting. I read further .................
  11. Igarr
    Igarr 27 November 2012 12: 13
    +1
    Novel, well done.
    I don't know how anyone ... but I just think like Allen Dulles - ".. Somosa, of course, a son of a bitch. But he's our son of a bitch."
    We are right only because we are right. And that’s all.
    On April 26, 1937, Nazi bombers bombed Guernica. A city in Spain, the capital of the Basque is considered. There were only 15 thousand inhabitants. Bombed m n o g about hours. Everyone knows what it means - expeditionary aircraft bombed for many hours?
    There were moaning - ruthless fascists. World condemnation. The picture was painted by Pablo Picasso.
    Then, ruthless Nazis bombed Coventry. And Churchill, knowing about the raid - the civilian population did not withdraw.
    The British recouped - Dresden, Koenigsberg. Cities included in our area of ​​responsibility.
    So ..... the fisherman sees the fisherman from afar. All stand each other.
    ...
    And the fact that we, Russia, is always riveted to all these war crimes - well, fate.
    The Red Army killed 128 collaborators - and then raped the remaining population of Germany.
    It was and will be.
    ...
    It’s just time to start your sites - with the crimes of the West.
    1. LION
      LION 27 November 2012 16: 34
      0
      These are the words of Reagan.
    2. zadotov
      zadotov 29 November 2012 11: 37
      0
      Do you naively think that the Red Army behaved gentlemanly in Berlin, yeah
  12. Vanek
    Vanek 27 November 2012 12: 18
    0
    This is not only addressed to the British and Americans, there are many who can still be hooked (and I will definitely do it). And then right away I heard: “It was a long time ago, this is not confirmed by documents, why bother to rake the past?” Really, completely useless. For them, rewriting history, brazenly and unprincipled. But there are still those who are agitating, agitating, and will continue to agitate the past, as a warning to the future.

    And it is not always necessary to judge only the vanquished.

    Yes, it is written somewhat messy, but that's how it happened.


    (and I will definitely do it).

    I will wait with impatience.

    Really, completely useless


    Yes, spit on them ...........

    Yes, it is written somewhat messy, but that's how it happened.

    Yes, everything turned out fine!

    Thanks for the work (article).

    Regards, Ivan.
  13. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 27 November 2012 12: 54
    0
    It was about the Germans and the Japanese that it was not necessary to expose them as victims - in principle, no one was trying to expose them ...
    Yes. in Soviet captivity, prisoners died like flies, especially the first ones — why not die if our population was massively starving, winter from 1942 to 43 was the most hungry, then it became easier, including thanks to Lend-Lease. The Japanese prisoners were not particularly boozy, because after the war, too, it was hungry, to put it mildly, to its own population ...
    Not to justify the Germans and Japanese, then both of these countries were extremely limited in resources in order to provide their own population in conditions of war, so the prisoners could not live humanly in their camps ...
    But the Americans had the opportunity to maintain human conditions for the Germans and Japanese, just as the Poles had the resources to prevent Soviet prisoners of war of the 20s from starving to death ...
  14. Flooding
    Flooding 27 November 2012 13: 08
    +1
    Thank you for the interesting information.
    I did not read about American camps for German prisoners of war.
    Wound on a mustache.
    Only in one place is a fix required:
    The air raid involved 334 strategic B-29 bombers, each of which dropped several thousand tons of incendiary bombs and napalm
  15. Flooding
    Flooding 27 November 2012 13: 46
    +2
    How they lifted up these anonymous two-keys.
    In addition to "+" and "-" on the keyboard, do not see any other buttons?
    What wretchedness?
  16. a
    a 27 November 2012 14: 54
    0
    Whatever bad they say about us and that they don’t pour dirt, we must definitely speak in response to what they did! The article is very interesting and correct, moreover, the younger generation should know about it!
  17. Bosk
    Bosk 27 November 2012 15: 30
    +1
    Somewhere I read in the old days in England, the archers captured were chopped off with the index and middle fingers (so that I could play with the bow) and released ... by the way, this was the sign of Victoria ... the victorious side showed the folding but we stayed with our own ..... it's me that it seems like times of dense, but people were valued in some way, maybe valued as a commodity, perhaps as someone else's property ... I don’t know, but there was no such cynical purposeful destruction ..
  18. 22rus
    22rus 27 November 2012 16: 54
    -4
    I don’t understand something ...
    The author smears the snot in pity for the poor Gansiks, who were not fed in captivity, and for the unfortunate Japanese, on whose head fair retribution fell. And at the same time he curses how can our war allies.
    Roma, are you from the fascist shortcomings?
    Yes, we are on them, for they first started! From now on, it will be disagreeable.
    1. Roman Skomorokhov
      27 November 2012 21: 49
      +1
      Quote: 22rus
      Roma, are you from the fascist shortcomings?


      I don’t even know what to say ... If that's all that came to you - apparently, yes.
      Buy brains, Lech, while there is an opportunity!
      1. 22rus
        22rus 27 November 2012 23: 35
        -1
        Quote: Banshee
        I don’t even know what to say ..

        Maybe then it's better to shut up?
        Quote: Banshee
        If that's all that came to you - apparently, yes.

        Yeah .. After all, everything in your article is so clear and logical. The Germans are unhappy. Their allies bombed and did not give porridge in captivity. The Japanese - also suffered for nothing ..
        And ours are good! They only scolded the war criminals, and the prisoners - so they were fed in three throats, although they themselves had nothing to eat.
        Question: so who is trying to rewrite history here? Americans or someone Roman Skomorokhov?
        1. zardoz
          zardoz 28 November 2012 02: 44
          +2
          And where does this one rewrite history? And if you do not understand the article, then you better keep silent :)
          1. 22rus
            22rus 28 November 2012 06: 45
            0
            Quote: zardoz
            And if you do not understand the article,

            Why don’t you understand? Afftar chewed everything up, brought all the evidence, put it on the shelves and did right conclusion. And the conclusion is this:
            The war criminals in World War II were precisely the United States, and not the USSR, as it was always considered to be everyone.
            Evidence of this is unhappy Germans and innocent Japanese.
            And those who believe that the main and only war criminals of the Nazis and their hangers-on, according to the author, need to buy brains. Apparently lamb. Like the author. With normal, human author is not understood.
            1. zardoz
              zardoz 28 November 2012 06: 51
              0
              Maybe you think too much about your brains?
              1. 22rus
                22rus 28 November 2012 07: 41
                0
                And you, it seems, bought yours with the author at the same market. On sale. Take a closer look at the expiration date on the product. It looks like it's over. laughing
                1. zardoz
                  zardoz 28 November 2012 07: 54
                  0
                  You would have looked at the expiration date of yours, I think you will be very surprised at their expiration. For judging by your "normal human" brains to be called a man is an insult. And please note which is yours :). If the statement "normal human" applied to you
                  1. 22rus
                    22rus 28 November 2012 08: 05
                    0
                    Okay, sorted out the brains. Everything around is fools. And with the topic? Do you also think that the USA, and not the USSR, were war criminals in the Second World War?
                    1. zardoz
                      zardoz 29 November 2012 05: 03
                      0
                      Quote: 22rus
                      Everything around is fools.

                      Around you?

                      Quote: 22rus
                      Do you also think that the USA, and not the USSR, were war criminals in the Second World War?

                      And who thinks so? I don’t think so and the author of the article doesn’t think so. It turns out that you think so?
                      1. 22rus
                        22rus 29 November 2012 22: 02
                        0
                        Quote: zardoz
                        Around you?

                        Again, unnecessary questions off-topic.
                        Quote: zardoz
                        I don’t think so and the author of the article doesn’t think so.

                        I already understood about you. And the author does not need to answer.
                      2. zardoz
                        zardoz 29 November 2012 23: 04
                        0
                        Quote: 22rus
                        Again, unnecessary questions off-topic.

                        If you consider it necessary to write off-topic, then why do you think that I can not ask unnecessary questions off-topic?
        2. Flooding
          Flooding 29 November 2012 10: 19
          0
          Quote: 22rus
          Yeah .. After all, everything in your article is so clear and logical. The Germans are unhappy. Their allies bombed and did not give porridge in captivity. The Japanese - also suffered for nothing ..

          Do not disgrace, 22rus. This is something completely different.
          On imposing on the USSR the role of a war criminal. And about the bare facts.
          1. 22rus
            22rus 29 November 2012 22: 17
            0
            Quote: Flood
            This is something completely different.
            On imposing on the USSR the role of a war criminal. And about the bare facts.

            I would like to learn more about the bare facts. Who, where, when, at what level and officially condemned / declared / appointed the USSR as a war criminal? The conversations "I heard, but not completely, I did not understand everything, I do not know who spoke, but I thought so"- at least not serious.
            Bring bare facts.
      2. Vanek
        Vanek 28 November 2012 07: 05
        0
        Quote: Banshee
        Buy brains .... while there is an opportunity!


        Roman, but will it help?
        1. Roman Skomorokhov
          28 November 2012 09: 33
          0
          Yes, apparently no request

          Okay, why really there, a year and a half ago I already visited the "Irish dog, receiving salary from the US State Department", now I played in the fascist shortcomings. Also an option ... I will definitely never write about the Arab world, otherwise they will write it down to the Wahhabis.
  19. shicl
    shicl 27 November 2012 17: 05
    +3
    To the facts about the partisans in Belarus. Google what the Craiova Army did in Minsk and Grodno regions. The answer was quite adequate.
  20. shurikchaevnik
    shurikchaevnik 27 November 2012 17: 48
    +1
    “We only do what we justify for the Victory.” Correctly chosen words. Absolutely to the point.
  21. Yazov
    Yazov 27 November 2012 18: 01
    +1
    Our Red Army brought Europe the current happiness! They fed porridge, removed children from the fire, freed them from the brown plague, and even made all women happy, until Stalin imposed a ban on this!
    Well, if without army humor, then my uncle almost even married an Austro-Hungarian. The authorities did not advise. And the girl was very sales. A couple of photos left in the family archive.
    And given the level of hatred towards the Germans and fascists of the Soviet people, Germany and Austria-Hungary still got off easily.
  22. wandlitz
    wandlitz 27 November 2012 19: 16
    +2
    Five years had to stay in the GSVG. I had one familiar German Ewalde. Of his acquaintances, he was the oldest. He talked about how he fought, was drafted into the 42, and in the 43 he was captured. Prior to 46, he worked at a mine in Kopeysk.
    And I told him: “So my father began his career as a miner in Kopeisk from the 1948 year.” He responded to me in Russian: “O-O countryman.” After all the time his countryman called me. I called him "Grandfather." Ewald recalled: “When the prisoners at the mine exceeded the norm, they were given extra ration for this. But to your civilian population, who worked at the mine, no one gave anything. Russians ate worse than prisoners. I respect your people. You are not vindictive. ” Most of the captured Germans worked in the Union, it seems, until the 1949 year, the latter were sent home as early as the 1956 year.
    In 1947, in our region, my mother told me, no less people died from hunger than during the whole war. A crop failure occurred and there was not enough food. The prisoners were fed. Of course we are not vindictive. This is only ovish propaganda represents us like that.
  23. sssrsssr
    sssrsssr 27 November 2012 19: 16
    +1
    Yes. double standards are there
  24. zadotov
    zadotov 29 November 2012 11: 26
    0
    In my humble opinion, in the execution of Polish officers by Stalin, the destruction of the Red Army soldiers in the Polish camps in 1920 (after the campaign against Warsaw) by Pilsudski played a large role. According to conservative estimates, the Red Army soldiers tortured 20000, and the Poles 14500, so that eye for eye
  25. E. Senyavskaya
    E. Senyavskaya 29 November 2012 15: 26
    0
    zadotov,
    Quote:
    In my humble opinion, in the execution of Polish officers by Stalin, the destruction of the Red Army soldiers in the Polish camps in 1920 (after the campaign against Warsaw) by Pilsudski played a large role. According to conservative estimates, the Red Army soldiers tortured 20000, and the Poles 14500, so that eye for eye


    Who told you about 20 thousand Red Army men? Somehow modestly for the Great Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth ... Not that scope, you know ...

    According to Russian historians, in Polish concentration camps in 1919 - early 1920. of the total number of captured 160 thousand people (the Poles reduce this figure by almost half), from 60 thousand to 80 thousand prisoners were tortured (See: The classification was removed: Losses of the USSR Armed Forces in wars, hostilities and military conflicts: Statistical research. M., 1993. P. 34; Mykhutina I.V. So how many Soviet prisoners of war died in Poland in 1919-1921 // New and Contemporary History. 1995. No. 3. P. 64-69; Raisky NS The Polish-Soviet War of 1919-1920 and the fate of prisoners of war, internees, hostages and refugees. - M .: IRI RAN, 1999. S. 79-82.http: //www.hrono.info/libris/ pdf / sudba-plennih-krasnoarm-v-pol.pdf; Kostyushko I. I. On the issue of Polish prisoners of war of 1920 // Slavic studies. 2000. No. 3. P. 42-62; Daines V.O. Russia - Poland. Work on mistakes // Nezavisimaya gazeta, November 3, 2000; Filimoshin M.V. "I shot dozens of people just because ... they looked like Bolsheviks" // Military History Journal. 2001. No. 2. P. 43 -48; Meltyukhov M.I.Soviet-Polishwar. Military-political confrontation 1918-1939 - M .: Veche, 2001.S. 105.http: //militera.lib.ru/research/meltyukhov2/01.html). Polish historians, gritting their teeth, squeeze out the figure of 16-17 thousand dead, "documented" (See: G. F. Matveev. Once again about the number of Red Army soldiers in Polish captivity in 1919-1920 // New and modern history. 2006. No. 3). At the same time, Polish politicians generally do not recognize the facts of mass deaths "from cruel treatment and inhuman conditions of detention" of captured Red Army soldiers, but they demand from us regular repentance for the "Katyn tragedy".
  26. knn54
    knn54 29 November 2012 18: 02
    0
    In 194 [(June), the Poles shied away from Smolensk; ask the old-timers — the Germans came and mailed-wrote them off to Lawrence Palych.
  27. Captain45
    Captain45 29 November 2012 19: 18
    0
    Quote:
    In my humble opinion, in the execution of Polish officers by Stalin

    I recommend those who are interested in Katyn to read the article "The Secret of the Katyn Tragedy-Ilyukhin's Documents" on the site "Motherland-USSR" and many questions of who, whom and for what shot in Katyn will be removed by themselves.
  28. Zomanus
    Zomanus 1 December 2012 14: 43
    0
    Good article. It is a pity that these things are only now being talked about. And how do you remember how the Russians were doused with shit in the 90s ... And when the word "Russian" was practically abusive.
  29. major1976
    major1976 25 December 2012 23: 29
    0
    I support the opinion that the execution of Polish officers by the NKVD troops of the USSR was not a provocation of the Germans !!! After the exhumation, newspapers and letters of 1941 were found on the corpses, and it is not clear how it could happen that the NKVD executioners used Walther, Browning or Mauser cal guns for execution .7,65 mm and Gecko cartridges. And Poland, this hyena of Europe at all times was the enemy of Russia and there is nothing surprising in their slander. The dog barks and wears the wind !!! Kurva !!!