We will break through: Russian supercomputers

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We will break through: Russian supercomputers
According to open data, the most powerful supercomputer in Russia is Yandex's Chervonenkis. Source: wikiwand.com


Strategic technologies


States claiming technological sovereignty must be able to build supercomputers on their own. Or for the first time at least buy from others. Efficient and extremely expensive computers are the engines of progress in the country and in the world. Literally. Among the most important destinations of "super" is a complex three-dimensional modeling of various processes. For example, in the aircraft industry, computer systems can significantly speed up the aerodynamic calculations of the fuselage and other critical systems.



Supercomputers even got into a number of government programs. For example, in 2017, the government issued an instruction “On the development of high-tech and promising military equipment products only using modern computer design technologies, electronic mathematical modeling.” The Logos software package was written directly for supercomputers. As the developers write, one of the modules of the Logos-TMP software allows "calculating the flow of viscous compressible and incompressible gas, taking into account turbulence using all modern approaches."

The second module - Logos-Strength "models the processes of static and dynamic elastic-plastic deformation, gas dynamics, destruction, contact interaction, thermal conductivity, kinematics, analysis of frequencies and vibration modes." The software package, in particular, was widely used for calculations on the topic of the fifth generation Su-57 fighter.

From open sources it is known that they worked on solving the problems of a safe separation aviation means of destruction from the aircraft, analyzed the resource of new structural materials, evaluated the gas-dynamic effect of the cannon installation and calculated the spread of the fire-extinguishing mixture in the power plant compartment. Virtual simulation makes it possible to significantly simplify further full-scale tests, without which, of course, not a single design work can do.


An example of providing high-precision three-dimensional models with initial and boundary conditions from functional models. Source: A. V. Kornev "Application of domestic supercomputer technologies for the creation of advanced aircraft models"

To understand what data arrays a supercomputer has to calculate, let's give an example for a machine with a capacity of 1 Pflop / s.

For reference, 1 petaflops means that a computer can perform one quadrillion floating point operations per second. Approximately 50 thousand ordinary personal computers are capable of this.

The petaflops supercomputer is trusted to calculate the aerodynamic characteristics of aircraft in various flight modes. For example, fighter models at speeds before and after overcoming the Mach number. A supercomputer with a performance of 1 Pflop / s creates a model in each mode for at least 12 months! At the same time, a tenfold increase in supercomputer performance does not give a corresponding acceleration - the duration of the calculation is reduced to 2–3 months.

The use of high-precision models of combustion and fire extinguishing processes on board an aircraft is even more resource-intensive, by one or two orders of magnitude. From the foregoing, it is clear how critical it is for modern Russia to have advanced supercomputers. Especially taking into account the literally revolutionary breakthrough that the civil aircraft industry should make in the next seven to eight years. By 2030, almost all the needs of domestic transportation should be covered by domestic aircraft, and these are several hundred aircraft, some of which have not even taken to the skies.


The results of the calculation of the spread of the fire extinguishing mixture in the compartment of the power plant. Source: A. V. Kornev "Application of domestic supercomputer technologies for the creation of advanced aircraft models"

No less powerful "super" is needed in the automotive industry. Especially given the large-scale import substitution program that has yet to be launched. High-performance computers, among other things, are trusted to calculate aerodynamics and simulate virtual crash tests.

In pharmacology, molecular modeling methods are widely used, for example, docking - a description of the interaction of target proteins and low molecular weight molecules of future drugs that block the work of these proteins. The supercomputer sorts through thousands of ready-made molecules and selects the most promising of them.

Further, the experimenters in the laboratories only have to check the solution of the superbrain in full-scale experiments. Giant time and tens of millions of rubles are saved. Similar work is being done at the Research Computing Center of Moscow State University at the 1,7-petaflop Lomonosov. By the way, he was once one of the five hundred most powerful supercomputers in the world.

"Chervonenkis" and others


The last time the top 500 most powerful computers in the world was updated in November last year, and it was marked by the appearance of the first ektaflops device. This is the Frontier machine from the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in the United States. Its exact maximum power is 1 Pflop/s or 102 Eflop/s. This is a thousand times more powerful than the supercomputer mentioned above for calculating the aerodynamic characteristics of an aircraft.

Most likely, Frontier will build similar models for the Su fighters in a matter of days. The peak power of the American product can reach 1,685 Eflop / s. At the same time, it consumes energy like several high-rise buildings on a frosty winter evening - up to 21 kW. Until November 100, the Japanese Fugaku supercomputer with a performance of 2022 Pflop / s was in first place, while it consumed noticeably more energy - almost 442 thousand kW.

There are two trends - an increase in the power of supercomputers with a simultaneous decrease in energy consumption.

Where are Russian cars in the top 500? In 25th place is the "super" from "Yandex" - "Chervonenkis" with a performance of 21,53 Pflop / s, used by the company mainly for the needs of neural networks. The device is named after Alexei Chervonenkis, one of the greatest theorists of machine learning.

Of course, all the filling is imported - NVIDIA A100 GPUs paired with AMD EPYC 7702. At the time of its appearance in 2021, the supercomputer ranked 19th in the world ranking.

Also in the world ranking are two more machines from Yandex - the 16-petaflop Galushkin (44th place) and the 12,8-petaflop Lyapunov (47th in the ranking). The first one is named after Alexander Galushkin, one of the main researchers of neural networks, the second - in honor of Alexei Lyapunov, the author of the works underlying computer science. All machines appeared relatively recently and therefore did not have time to critically become outdated.

Sber also has supercomputers, such as Christofari and Christofari Neo, built in 2019 and 2021, respectively. Neo is 50th in the world rankings, while his older brother is 87th.

How much the construction of such units costs can be judged by the costs of the Lomonosov-2 supercomputer, for which almost 2009 billion rubles were spent by 2. Fugaku mentioned above cost billions of dollars. Supercomputers are expensive but highly sought-after toys.

At the moment, the world leaders, both in terms of power and the number of cars, are China (about 170 cars) and the USA (almost 150), followed by Japan, Germany, France and the Netherlands. Until November last year, the top 500 included the Lomonosov-2 mentioned above with 1,3 Pflop / s, but now it is outside the elite club. But Thunder from MTS with a capacity of 2,26 Pflop / s in November last year stopped the fall at 352nd place.

The rating of the most productive computers in the world is based on a voluntary principle - if the applicant has a desire to stand out, then the parameters of the supercomputer are included in the top 500. A large part of powerful computers passes by, as it is used in the interests of national security.

In Russia, of course, the most famous and most powerful of these is the “super” of the National Defense Control Center. There is not much open information about this machine, but it is claimed that the performance is about 16 Pflop / s. If this is true, then the computer is among the fifty most powerful in the world. The computing potential of the machine on Frunzenskaya Embankment is more than three times higher than the capabilities of a similar supercomputer in the Pentagon.

One of the purposes of the supercomputer of the Russian Ministry of Defense is modeling and forecasting the development of military conflicts. The machine's algorithms are said to have reported a government crisis in Venezuela weeks in advance. One can only guess what predictions the 16-petaflops computer makes about the outcome of the special operation in Ukraine. And what models did she generate before February 24, 2022.

Despite all the seeming positive picture, in the near future Russia will have certain difficulties with the creation of new supercomputers. As can be seen from the material, dependence on foreign components is approaching absolute - in Russia there is no production base for graphics processors, on the basis of which "super" ones are built. That is why last fall the Americans banned the import of Nvidia chips to Russia, and at the same time to China. First of all, products of the A100 and H100 series, on which the entire supercomputer industry is based.

If everything is left as it is, then in five or six years Russia's backlog in computing power from Western countries may become critical. This, of course, will not cause a momentary and total collapse, but it will slow down many design and technological processes. In enemy countries, on the contrary, the development and adoption processes in the series will accelerate.


The NVIDIA A100 graphics accelerator is the basis of most Russian commercial supers. Expectedly fell under Western restrictions. Source: i2hard.ru

Work on import substitution of supercomputer stuffing is certainly underway. Money is allocated for the development of a domestic photolithograph, the main component in the microelectronics production chain. This will theoretically allow the production of graphics chips by 2030.

Of course, not world-class, but quite their own. The fact is that the key parameter of the modern development of "super" is energy efficiency. Recall that the world's most powerful Frontier consumes about 21 kW, and the less powerful Fugaku almost 100 kW. For Russia, honestly, this parameter is not so critical. Moreover, our country is the best in the world for organizing supercomputing.

Firstly, we have very inexpensive electricity, and secondly, a cold climate, which greatly simplifies the cooling of hot supercomputers. Therefore, for some time, it is possible to increase the power of existing machines and build new ones on frankly outdated graphic processors. Such giants will simply take up space and generate more heat.

If we exaggerate completely, then a small power plant will have to be assigned to each computer center. What to do, technological sovereignty has never been cheap.
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  1. -2
    22 March 2023 04: 47
    use a supercomputer to calculate the aerodynamics of the aircraft, and ended up buying boenga. and where is the logic?
    1. +10
      22 March 2023 05: 00
      Quote from Constantin N.
      and in the end they bought boenga. and where is the logic?
      Su-57 is a Boeng Tokoy?

      No less powerful "super" is needed in the automotive industry.
      I strongly doubt that they are directly needed - not that complexity, maximum for designing engines.
      1. +1
        22 March 2023 06: 48
        This is where a supercomputer is needed, otherwise we will never have a well-thought-out car.
        1. +22
          22 March 2023 07: 03
          Quote: Herman 4223
          This is where a supercomputer is needed, otherwise thoughtful we will never have a car.

          If there is nothing to think about, then no supercomputer will help.
          1. +8
            22 March 2023 08: 08
            Supercomputers are expensive but highly sought-after toys.

            1. it not toys, is the basis for building the present and modeling the future!
            2. Having missed the moment, lagging behind - you can get into the same tragic story as with the development and production of UAVs.
            1. 0
              26 May 2023 12: 34
              "missing the moment" - it was already when, at the suggestion of Andropov, in the sixties, funding for computers was reduced.
        2. +1
          22 March 2023 07: 20
          Our car comes out only after file processing wassatthe supercomputer will apparently also require a file
          1. +2
            22 March 2023 17: 57
            Well, you need a file for a supercomputer!
            1. +2
              23 March 2023 04: 05
              Quote: vadim dok
              Well, you need a file for a supercomputer!

              A file for a quantum one, but for a simple file, it’s a file! laughing
        3. +7
          22 March 2023 11: 51
          "This is where a supercomputer is needed, otherwise we will never have a well-thought-out car"
          But how were "thought out" cars built when there were no supercomputers even close? And what is thoughtful?
          1. +2
            23 March 2023 22: 39
            and they drew planes on drawing boards, and rockets ... I don’t call for a return to the Stone Age, but I advise all smart people from "supercomputers" to develop their heads, and not poke into the "clave" with three errors in the word that they write on the fence. And why then these computers do not help in solving the Navier-Stokes Equation or any other unsolved equations. here they prove it with their head. Example: Fermat's theorem. And the like. As long as there is an exam and there is no head, no supercomputers will help.


            I knew these "tadpoles" until the last days they counted only with the help of Legendre polynomials and ... ARITHMOMETERS.
            1. +1
              April 27 2023 00: 48
              and they drew planes on drawing boards, and rockets ...
              Complete technical documentation on paper for the Tu-154 took a small train. Because the plane is not only a top, bottom, side view and several longitudinal and transverse sections. This is a bunch of all kinds of kinematic, hydraulic, pneumatic, electrical and some other schemes with descriptions in the form of explanatory notes, lists of elements and a bunch of necessary documentation. These are drawings of each part, assembly unit, assembly, unit. These are route maps for production and inspection. These are hundreds of thousands of sheets of paper. Now tell us how you will look for the necessary document in this mountain of paper, agree on changes, and make changes. Just as slowly and sadly? It is also worth remembering that with each generation the planes become more complicated and each time you have to redraw this railway train of paper.

              And why then these computers do not help in solving the Navier-Stokes Equation or any other unsolved equations.
              In mathematics, there is such a section "Computational Mathematics", where they just deal with computational problems and there is also numerical modeling, where approximate calculations are performed for your Navier-Stokes, Maxwell equations, attacks on their encryption algorithms are simulated and other people's ciphers are broken, pharmacists develop drugs, physicists, chemists and engineers are experimenting. And the higher the performance of the computing system, the more accurate the result. Or an example, the behavior of a thermonuclear explosion is described by DE in a self-oscillatory form. The question is - which is easier, cheaper and safer: to explode a bomb at home, or to calculate on a computer? Detonating a hundred bombs is not a problem, how about a thousand or a million explosions, is there enough space on Novaya Zemlya? Los Alamo Laboratory is one of the main customers of supercomputers, they obviously do not order mining. How will you predict the weather? In the old fashioned way, with body aches or with the help of tambourines? There is a lot of mathematics and calculations in weather forecasting. Well, there is a lot of data for accuracy.

              Example: Fermat's theorem.
              So far it has no practical application and has been proven for some set of integers. Not an equation. Much more important is the question of the equality of complexity classes P and NP (enumeration problem).

              I knew these "tadpoles" until the last days they counted only with the help of Legendre polynomials and ... ARITHMOMETERS.
              Well, how many thousands or millions of integrals per second did they calculate? But what about systems of linear equations for billions of values ​​(hello model YO)? A modern orbiting telescope produces a raw image of several terabytes in size, how many man-years will it take for "tadpoles" to translate into a human-readable form? For example: there are more than 800 parameters in the equation for the optimal calculation of the installation location of a base cell station. Now it might even be more. How long will it take?
              Now overseas they are analyzing intelligence and modeling the possible behavior of our troops. It used to be that the commander from the hillock watched the action of the troops and gave orders. How many data channels are there now? Some satellites hang about 400 pieces.
              I understand that a more suitable example is needed to show the real need for supercomputers, where your tadpoles with the ability to click integrals on Lissajous figures will sit in a puddle. The number of transistors in modern processors has long exceeded a billion. Fuck it with a billion, how about a million transistors. I have no doubt about their intellectual capabilities, but how many years will it take to calculate even on calculators for a processor with a million transistors?
              In general, this is reminiscent of the grumbling of a grandfather hunter in felt boots with a quiver of arrows and a bow, who was overtaken on a quad bike by hunters armed with carbines with optical sights.
          2. 0
            April 26 2023 23: 45
            But how were "thought out" cars built when there were no supercomputers even close?
            With a lot of work and high overhead. For example, in the nineties, automakers built special chambers to test electromagnetic compatibility. Because unlike our car industry, where all the electronics are represented by a generator, a battery and a distributor, foreign cars have electronic ignition, a bunch of sensors, and a bunch of electronics for comfort and convenience. All this good in one way or another radiates and receives radiation. In addition, there are many emitters in the city (radio, cellular communications, television) that can affect on-board electronics. Only such a camera is quite expensive and the process of debugging a future model is rather slow. With the growth of computing power and the advent of appropriate software, this can be done much faster and a little cheaper.
            By thoughtfulness, it most likely meant that in addition to ease of control and comfort in the cabin, the design of the car included minimization of damage to passengers in accidents and even pedestrians. These are all sorts of specially easily deformed body elements or, on the contrary, reinforced sections. Many auto magazines write about these bells and whistles, and there are even beautiful videos. There are painstaking calculations behind this. Yes, you can make a hundred different variations of a beam and test it on a stand to see how it behaves. Or you can run millions or billions of possible options in your calculations. And at the same time, it is not known where you will spend more electricity: on the production and testing of beams, or on the run of huge computer models. Optimal aerodynamic shape - the designer can weaken any beauty that falls into his head, only the aerodynamic performance will be such that after 30 km / h the car will look like a compact glider. There are numerous calculations of the optimal shape, taking into account the minimization of resistance to the oncoming flow, the increase in downforce and aesthetics. For comparison, look at foreign cars of the 60-80s, when they didn’t really use such things and modern slick ones.
            A thoughtful car is when all the possible and impossible things that can happen to a car, passengers and even pedestrians are thought out. By the way, which of the domestic modern cars have protective equipment when hitting a pedestrian? It may seem like an overkill to someone, only some of my friends' children died under the wheels. One was crushed by a car that skidded in the snow (snow suddenly fell in the city in winter, the public utilities were completely unprepared for such a development, so he rushed through traffic jams), the other was hit by a car when she was walking with her mother along the road along the sidewalk.
    2. -3
      22 March 2023 05: 29
      But "rollback" twice ... feel
    3. +9
      22 March 2023 06: 38
      Maybe we have enough breakthroughs? Is it just to start doing it slowly?
      1. 0
        22 March 2023 15: 11
        Processors - Elbrus \ Baikal seem to "even move."
        With vidyuhi proho deal (either in any way, or gags).
        SSDs do, but silicon is taking western.

        If 20 years ago the entire public sector was obliged to use only domestic computers, the ice would have broken much faster (there would simply have been an influx of funds).
        1. +13
          22 March 2023 16: 22
          Yes, how can they move when there is simply nothing to physically release them. There are simply NO lithographs. We destroyed our developments, and we actually forbade ourselves to buy imported ones when it was still possible. Many thanks for this must be said to the Chubais with Grefs and other freaks, many of them, by the way, are still sitting in the government and feel very well. What for them supercomputers, they can count their profits on the accounts.
        2. +2
          22 March 2023 18: 01
          Elbrus processors are only the name of the Russian Federation, and the rest are all Taiwanese chips!
        3. 0
          27 March 2023 21: 30
          silicon take western

          Silicon? It's sand! Domestic than did not please? ))
      2. -4
        22 March 2023 18: 59
        We do.
        Instead of entering into a hopeless "race to the nanometers", we are creating processors with advanced performance through a XNUMXD architecture based on gallium arsenide.
        The production of promising processors has already been launched at JSC "EOS" in Novosibirsk. This is the only enterprise producing GaAs wafers for electronic component base devices. Now there are not enough of them - there is not enough capacity. But it won't last forever.
        In addition, Russia makes sapphire substrates for the production of microchips - you can't do without them. 80% of the substrates in the world are from Russia. We will not give a substrate - no one will have chips. Not a single country provides a substrate of the required purity - it is not so easy to replace us.
        1. +6
          22 March 2023 20: 05
          tatyana, don't talk nonsense - it hurts her.
          1. -2
            22 March 2023 21: 08
            Justify your sob. It's embarrassing, right?
        2. +1
          27 March 2023 19: 13
          Where did this nonsense with sapphire substrates come from? The chips have a SILICON substrate, and the main use of sapphire substrates is LED technology, protective glasses for smartphones and other electronics.
          1. 0
            30 March 2023 17: 53
            Well, at least one answer to the case. Yes, not for chips, but for processors, and at present it is no longer critical for production. A little misspoken.
            1. 0
              April 27 2023 01: 03
              Yes, not for chips, but for processors, and at present it is no longer critical for production. A little misspoken.
              Here you just made a big reservation. Because chips are called any microelectronic products. There are processors, memory, video processors, sound processors, flash drives, camera matrices, etc.
          2. 0
            April 27 2023 01: 01
            The chips have a SILICON substrate
            I just remember the periodic table and there silicon (Si) and arsenide (aka arsenic As) with gallium (some people use Ga as thermal paste) are completely different elements. I don't even have a make-believe lithograph at home, but it seems to me that GaAs-based chips will not be made on a silicon substrate.
            As far as I remember, "silicon-on-sapphire" chips have been and are being made for space technology so that they work normally in conditions of high radiation.
    4. +2
      22 March 2023 15: 09
      Because passenger transportation was given to private traders, and they turned out to be bastards (who would have thought!), And they bought used planes there.
    5. +4
      22 March 2023 19: 12
      Aerodynamics is more than just an airplane. Yes, and hydrodynamics, electrodynamics is. The areas are different, and the models have a lot of similarities.
      1. +1
        23 March 2023 22: 49
        That's for sure. and not jurisprudence, and not economics = that is, accounting. we have banks out of the blue cut money without sapphire substrates. they receive OUR money (taxes) from the Central Bank and they lend it to us, but with high interest rates. But it is possible through the Treasury without additional interest at the rates of the Central Bank. As for sapphire substrates: It turned out that Russia produces 80% of sapphire substrates for silicon wafers. What Taiwanese TSMC hopes for. In addition: Global chip production saved. Russia will sharply increase the production of scarce neon
        In 2023, Russia intends to start producing up to 25% of the required world volume of high-purity neon. This gas is used, among other things, in the production of microcircuits. It is in great deficit in the world due to the shutdown of Ukrainian factories, which provided up to 50% of the world's needs for it.
        1. 0
          April 27 2023 01: 59
          In 2023, Russia intends to start producing up to 25% of the required world volume of high-purity neon.
          Inflate microchips?
  2. 0
    22 March 2023 05: 08
    I have two questions:
    1. Why hasn't there been an accident at the ASML plant in the Netherlands yet? (Alternatively, drones with Ukrainian flags fly into the air purification system or it is captured and destroyed by refugees from Syria).
    2. Where did the officials of the state of Russia put their money? Why are there no own lithographic machines and radio equipment? Why the Russian Federation cannot provide itself with CNC machines? And where is the state program for training design engineers and equipment maintenance specialists entirely on equipment manufactured in the Russian Federation? At the same Kalashnikov, CNC machines operate on the basis of CNC Heidenhain, Siemens and Fanuc. And logically, CNC machines made in the Russian Federation should be 100%.
    1. 0
      April 27 2023 01: 19
      1. Why hasn't there been an accident at the ASML plant in the Netherlands yet?
      Well, at least one bright head. Even I didn't think of that. It's so wonderful. It would be much more ingenious to introduce a small constructive defect, which will take a lot of time, money and damaged chips to find and fix. But something definitely needs to be done about this plant. Petrov and Bashirov don't want to see tulips blooming in Holland?

      Where did the officials of the state of Russia put their money?
      They indulged in hedonism, built options for how to integrate into Western life, taught children at their universities and attached them where possible, planned their old age on the Cote d'Azur or on a yacht in California. All this needs money.

      And where is the state program for training design engineers and equipment maintenance specialists
      In past. I think this is the most accurate answer. I cannot answer your other important and valuable questions.
  3. +16
    22 March 2023 05: 28
    We will break through: Russian supercomputers

    I thought there would be an article about RUSSIAN supercomputers, but this article is about FOREIGN computers located in Russia. recourse
    1. 0
      April 27 2023 01: 20
      Akin to a report on foreign cars on our roads. Look what good fellows we are, how much we buy, and how much we want to buy.
  4. -2
    22 March 2023 05: 57
    In the USSR, we had such an anecdote. We have the largest and most powerful excavators, aircraft, ships, microchips and nuclear power plants. Hall applause. So there are no machines for the production of processors, so our desire to create 73n processors. in the USA and Japan 2n. We'll be catching up for a long time. Machine tools are currently produced in Sweden, and sanctions are imposed on obtaining such equipment. Fortunately, today the direction is not to increase the power of these processors, but to reduce them in size and reduce the power supply. But I think we will catch up, though not soon. Create machine tools, find something extra for export, and then develop the circuits themselves by burning silicon.
    1. +14
      22 March 2023 11: 56
      "that's why our desire to create 73n processors"
      such process technology is 73nm. or 93 or 65.
      "Today the machines are produced in Sweden"
      actually in Holland. don't judge what you don't know
    2. -2
      23 March 2023 22: 55
      Comrade Beria will be found, in a month they will set up their production. Aircraft factories were built out of the blue and the latest aircraft were created. Even with today's computer technology, we are fighting with what we created on drawing boards and slide rules. Turn off the Internet now and all this horde of IT people will not even be suitable for digging the earth - the gut is thin. This is how our grandfathers and fathers worked: on July 31, 1931, a mining equipment plant was founded on the outskirts of Novosibirsk, and in 1936, by a decree of the Council of Labor and Defense, the plant was assigned a new profile - aircraft construction. On November 4, 1937, the first built I-16 aircraft took off at the plant. Then such well-known types of aircraft as the Yak-3, Yak-7, Yak-9 were created. Year!!!!!! and the plane on the wing.
      1. +1
        27 March 2023 10: 50
        Aircraft are not created by the plant, but by the design bureau. The factory makes them.
      2. 0
        April 27 2023 01: 26
        Haven't you been swinging a pick at the permafrost for a long time under the supervision of guards? How about shaking the old days and counting now on a slide rule a simple circuit of a low-noise wide-range receiver for a VHF radio station, and then a low-power transmitter for broadcasting in the VHF band with single-sideband frequency modulation? The gut is thin or there are no such rulers?
  5. +4
    22 March 2023 06: 22
    The prospects are not bright, but there are. The main thing is not to turn off the path (God forbid from the Yeltsins)
    1. +5
      22 March 2023 11: 58
      "Prospects are not bright, but there are. The main thing"
      production - none
  6. +1
    22 March 2023 06: 34
    We love informatics
    Happy to try there
    We will draw a computer
    Let's do
    (chastushka from my school time smile )
  7. +1
    22 March 2023 06: 41
    Apparently, the supercomputer issued the most gloomy forecasts of the NWO, since our generals are silent like fish in water.
    1. +1
      22 March 2023 07: 36
      The military is forbidden to sit in social networks. They are not media personalities, they cannot crack their tongues.
      1. 0
        April 27 2023 01: 29
        The experience of communicating with them says quite the opposite, and when they get tipsy, you won’t shut up at all. Some really stop up is dangerous to health.
  8. +3
    22 March 2023 06: 47
    Moreover, our country is the best in the world for organizing supercomputing.
    Firstly, we have very inexpensive electricity, and secondly, a cold climate, which greatly simplifies the cooling of hot supercomputers. So for a while...

    ...Russia will continue to drive oil, raw materials, grain and other goods without high added value. Empty talk about supercomputers will also continue in the intervals between trips to the well for water (cistern car), “outdoor meetings over a hole in the wooden floor” and melting the stove with firewood and what God sent coal ...
    stop
    Yes, communication between units, commander and personnel can still be organized using signal flags ...
    1. +2
      22 March 2023 18: 05
      By the way, in the USA there is also Alaska, where it is not very hot!
  9. +9
    22 March 2023 08: 03
    Your photolithograph is a fairy tale. We don’t have any personnel to create a serial model, or enough money. It took ASML ten years and several billion dollars to build a hard ultraviolet apparatus. But there was a market there, there was a place to sell devices, but what about us? China itself is developing, the rest do not need our lithograph - chips can be produced at contract factories. So things will not go further than the pre-alpha version somewhere in the research institute, but billions of rubles will be mastered.
    1. -4
      22 March 2023 09: 44
      ASML took ten years and several billion dollars to create a device with a hard ultraviolet

      Yep, a few.
      Do you want $300 billion?
      ASML market capitalization $300 billion
      1. +13
        22 March 2023 10: 27
        ASML market capitalization $300 billion

        Market capitalization and development cost are completely unrelated things.
        1. -1
          22 March 2023 16: 39
          Market capitalization and development cost are completely unrelated things.

          Yes. Unrelated. BUT...
          The thesis above about several billion dollars looks ridiculous.
          To create a lithograph, you need to build>=+-10 factories.
          ASML is lucky.
          Some parts he just buys.
          For example, ASML buys optics in Germany. That is, for ASML, creating a lithograph is at least an easier task. Than alone.
    2. -8
      22 March 2023 16: 38
      Just search for "Russia lithographer" and you will see many articles like this one: https://www.ixbt.com/news/2022/10/21/rossija-sama-smozhet-proizvoditel-7nanometrovye-cpu-institut-prikladnoj-fiziki -ran-sozdaet-pervyj-otechestvennyj.html
      Prototypes have been around for a long time. And I see no reason why the plans will not be implemented.
      Here is another article: https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1196492&full
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. -5
          22 March 2023 21: 29
          That is, you claim that in the given links there is one deception? Well, give other links or explain with reason why. And statements are easy to distribute, especially if they are not supported by anything.
          1. -4
            22 March 2023 22: 45
            I’ll also add to those who are interested - a video of a scientific seminar on lithography in Russia dated March 10 this year: https://vk.com/video-215983798_456239047
            1. -2
              23 March 2023 23: 10
              It is necessary for the participants of the seminar to "sharashka" for a year. Everything will spin. And lithographs and khrenographs ... In parts they will be brought from unfriendly countries, when the genitals are clamped in a vise. Dutch ladies of easy virtue will be taken out for spare parts in shorts for a "normal" bribe.
      2. 0
        April 27 2023 01: 39
        It actually sounds ridiculous: type something in the search and believe what it will give out. Akin to folk recipes for breast augmentation or something else. Moreover, the production of chips revolves not only around some lithographers. How about the production of pure single crystals and seeds for their production, process gases, photoresist? What will the chips count on? The topology of a crystal for a billion transistors is extremely difficult to keep in mind. How and on what will you test the finished chips? What to pack then? A suitcase with two carrying handles is not an option at all. And the most important resource - where can you find so many competent and experienced specialists? We do not produce such specialists in vocational schools, but they are unique and in demand all over the world.
    3. +2
      22 March 2023 20: 03
      not a fairy tale, but it takes a lot of time. we have great specialists in hard ultraviolet. would have started 10 years ago - everything would have been already.

      ours, even parts of the equipment for asml did.
  10. +3
    22 March 2023 09: 01
    Ha, their graphics chips by 2030 wassat
    Fall down don't get up. And what, someone knows the office, which is seriously engaged in this?
    Will we immediately beat the H100 or will we first try to compete with the G80 from 2006? wassat
    Lots of plans. But there will be no new supers.
    And the enemy new supers (which are already under construction) will soon be well, so the TOP-500 swamp will be moved.
    And for some tasks of hydrodynamics, more power is needed than that of the TOP-5 modern supers, by several orders of magnitude. And there a lot of interesting and really breakthrough things will be drawn, as a result (this is in addition to the diplern, which also suffocates in the absence of adequate computing power).
    And it’s also interesting who will be all the scientific software on Elbrus (which will also not be, and 4C, which may be launched, is absolutely not relevant for supers) and mythical domestic graphic chips to translate? All 30-40 thousand man-years (according to the most conservative estimates)? wassat
  11. 0
    22 March 2023 09: 22
    Competitive Nvidia chips began to be made in China. And I think that there are not so many supercomputers that it would be impossible to import the required number of video cards.
    1. +3
      22 March 2023 09: 42
      The Chinese are great, they perfectly understand where it is hard and you have to strain. But only we can’t see these chips - a strategic product, the Chinese themselves need it like air, and if they completely cut off the supply of photoresist for standards from 22nm, then hello to the Chinese supers under construction. So this is a very limited resource, it was not designed for everyone (as with the same Kungpengs).

      PS: 2-3 thousand 4-chip H100 modules are not only difficult to import, but rather absolutely impossible, and this is the minimum for something that wants to be called super. Moreover, with some degree of probability, these chips can turn into a pumpkin, but there is more likely to be more conspiracy theories. But in technological equipment, unfortunately, conspiracy theories have become a reality.
      1. 0
        27 March 2023 19: 30
        Specifically, they have no problems with photoresist, as well as with a fairly large range of other equipment - chemicals and wafer cleaning equipment, clean silicon wafers themselves, EDA software, equipment for plasma and "liquid" etching, etc. The main problem is lithography, but this year the production of DUV lithographs for chips >= 28 nm will start. But with EUV lithography, they will have to wait, by 2024-2025 they only plan to release a prototype, i.e. this whole thing will most likely go into mass production closer to 2030. So far, we have set our sights on a 130 nm lithograph, which is actually also very good, no kidding - if everything is successful, then countries capable of producing their own equipment even for such an "ancient" there is very little technical process, and from 130 nm it is possible to iteratively come to 90 nm. The range of applications for 90-130 nm semiconductors is huge - cars, agricultural machinery, power electronics, etc. Here the question is more whether they will be able to complete the project (i.e., to mass commercial production) or will it be abandoned again somewhere in the middle after they release a prototype and triumphantly blow the trumpet in the media, and then they will either start importing Western equipment with gray schemes, or buy from the Chinese.

        With GPUs, there is a problem in the form of software - i.e. in terms of TFlops, they look pretty decent, but due to the lack of optimization, they drain even old NVIDIA GPUs like the GTX 1060. By the way, we had the same problem with Elbrus ("was", because the last Elbrus is simply nowhere produce) - specifically in terms of characteristics, they are quite good, but due to poor optimization they were leaked to rather old processors from Intel and AMD. So, in addition to the hardware, you also need to catch up with the software, this is quite problematic due to the fact that almost all modern software has been purposefully optimized for Intel \ AMD \ NVIDIA, and now the same layer of work will need to be done again for new CPU / GPU.
  12. +1
    22 March 2023 10: 01
    If the great masters who are ideally suited for each other to arrange their affairs and the masters of everything fantastically pro-poo nafig converge at the Summit in Moscow, the result will definitely be!
    This is our reality and the logical outcome of our being. Well, our consciousness is secondary and has not yet caught up. But still catch up and overtake. Matter of habit..
  13. +4
    22 March 2023 10: 39
    The NVIDIA A100 graphics accelerator is the basis of most Russian commercial supers.

    Is there anything of ours, Russian in the supercomputer? Except for the assembly.
  14. 0
    22 March 2023 10: 48
    Without real testing, no product can be developed. The computer can only slightly reduce the consumption and time for testing, but this is not critical.
  15. -1
    22 March 2023 11: 02
    and if they completely cut off the supply of photoresist for standards from 22nm, then hello to the Chinese supers under construction.

    It is very funny to read such precious (like stones) reasoning. The Western Ubermensch is doing something inaccessible to the Eastern Untermensch and may cut off their supplies.
    If someone cuts something to the Chinese and they need it, then they will do it themselves. It can hit a little worse, or it can hit better, but they will do it. But the one that will cut off the supplies will be able to shove their export photoresistors wherever he wants.
    1. +3
      22 March 2023 12: 01
      Yes, yes, we'll see how they do it. There is such a thing as know-how. Here it is the goods, and do it yourself - FIG. And there are hundreds of such technologies. As A. Clark said - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." And you can continue to give out your very competent judgments.
  16. +12
    22 March 2023 11: 33
    Quote: 47 Reader
    The prospects are not bright, but there are. The main thing is not to turn off the path (God forbid from the Yeltsins)

    Well, with Putin, we will definitely go into a breakthrough! For more than 20 years there have been continuous breakthroughs and there is no time for buildup. Oh well...
  17. +5
    22 March 2023 15: 23
    One of the purposes of the supercomputer of the Russian Ministry of Defense is modeling and forecasting the development of military conflicts. The machine's algorithms are said to have reported a government crisis in Venezuela weeks in advance.

    This is where the legs of Russia's successful policy in the far abroad turn out to grow ... But it is clear that even a supercomputer cannot predict the development of the closest neighbors - the Slavs. The unpredictability and lack of logic of both one and the other side affects. And trying to predict the real outcome of the CBO is likely to be tantamount to trying to divide by 0.
    1. -1
      23 March 2023 01: 47
      Perhaps the problem is elsewhere.
      There was such a bearded anecdote.
      The Italians built the VAZ, and at the exit they put a robot for sorting defective parts.
      It works with them, evaluates the quality and sometimes puts aside defective parts. They left, he began to put everything aside. We fought - ours fought with quality - he still rejects everything in a row. But they did solve the problem. After some time, the Italians come and see - the robot's manipulator is tied with a strong rope - he sees the marriage, the lights flash from the effort, twitches - but he cannot remove the marriage to the side.
      So it is with a computer.
  18. +2
    22 March 2023 15: 29
    Quote: vadimtt
    Yes, yes, we'll see how they do it. There is such a thing as know-how. Here it is the goods, and do it yourself - FIG. And there are hundreds of such technologies. As A. Clark said - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." And you can continue to give out your very competent judgments.

    There is a reasonable doubt that we will see how the delivery will be cut. "Magisniki" from technology are well aware of how this will end.
    1. +1
      24 March 2023 10: 44
      Considering the emergency start of "Reindustrialization of America 2.0", then yes, someone guessed something and everything has already been decided. Technologically, China will be drowned in the same way as the "Japanese miracle" of the late 80s was drowned. Jumped too high, according to "white people".
  19. +7
    22 March 2023 15: 33
    "We can only guess what predictions the 16 petaflops computer makes about the outcome of the special operation in Ukraine. And what models it generated before February 24, 2022" (c)
    The answer is none.
    She did not generate any models. And could not generate.
    Because working versions of the model require correct input data.
    And in our country, the original data is lost, distorted and distorted already at the first links of the chain of reports from the original source, and to the very top.
    It is not possible to build an operating forecast model on such initial ones.
    More precisely, something can be built, of course, but what it will be - we see now with our own eyes.
    1. 0
      8 May 2023 19: 30
      Furiously plus .... There is an iron rule. Shit at the entrance = shit at the exit. Not only we, but almost all of us have three main problems - sufficiency, reliability and timeliness of data. If they are solved, then high-quality decisions can be made with less powerful hardware.
  20. +1
    22 March 2023 15: 37
    At one time, the Sayano Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station was built in Khakassia to power centrifuges and an aluminum plant. If it is always very critical for the needs of a supercomputer, it is possible to allocate the power of one of the turbines or the reactor of any nuclear power plant, this will more than cover all the needs of the computer for electricity. If you dream up, then the Kola NPP is an ideal option - electricity is in abundance and the climate is extremely cold. The question is which of the scientists will go to Murmansk.
    1. 0
      23 March 2023 23: 28
      along the tundra, along a wide road ... they will distribute and go winked
    2. +1
      25 March 2023 14: 56
      On the supercomputer, the students work only remotely. Nobody goes to him. And there will be guards. At least on watch.
  21. +4
    22 March 2023 15: 40
    The article, in principle, is normal, the author did not lie anywhere on a large scale, but a person who was terribly far from the industry wrote.
    Remarks.

    First of all, products of the A100 and H100 series, on which the entire supercomputer industry is based.

    This is wrong. It is easy to see that there are no computers built on A100 in the top five. And there are only 2 of them in the top ten.

    Among the most important destinations of "super" is a complex three-dimensional modeling of various processes.

    This is wrong. 10 years ago it was like that. Now it's almost gone. Look at our top three supers, they belong to Yandex, Sberbank and presumably MO. None of them solves any difurs for solving problems of aero or hydrodynamics. These are all neural networks. For Yandex, these are search relevance tasks for the Sberbank, you won’t believe the scoring tasks. That is, the classic tasks of prediction, I suspect the MO has the same thing.


    At the same time, a tenfold increase in supercomputer performance does not give a corresponding acceleration - the duration of the calculation is reduced to 2–3 months.

    It's not just that it's not correct at all. This would be more or less true if the calculation program were the same. And if it is different, and even more so, there are different computational algorithms and, moreover, different physical models, it is pointless to compare them. Any second-year student of VMIK knows this, because he has just such a task for a computational practicum (comparison of the power of various methods for the numerical solution of systems of equations).

    One more note. Didn't it seem strange to you that there are no modern Chinese supers in the top?
    The fact is that the PRC has stopped sending data on its supercomputers. We are from last year too. Draw your own conclusions.

    In general, it’s better to think about not computing processors like v100 or A100, but ordinary server or desktop ones. PRC made 3D5000. But until this year, it was forbidden to deliver it anywhere outside the PRC. I understand that this issue was resolved during the visit. Goodbye Intel laughing
    1. +2
      22 March 2023 18: 00
      China has classified data on its supercomputers amid blocking US sanctions on the supply of components. These products are no longer a mass citizen and their origin is quite easily controlled. With all its capabilities in semiconductors, purely Chinese supercomputers 1) exist and 2) are inferior to Western ones. China is taking at the moment by their quantity.

      In general, there is a chic series of articles about breakthroughs and problems of Soviet microelectronics and supercomputers in particular here on VO: "The Birth of Soviet Missile Defense" https://topwar.ru/user/Sperry/
      1. +3
        22 March 2023 19: 21
        Why write such nonsense? Do not smack nonsense, it hurts her. Balabolstvo does not paint.
        With all its capabilities in semiconductors, purely Chinese supercomputers 1) there are also 2)
        inferior to the Western ones.

        At the moment when the PRC stopped publishing data on its supercomputers, their TIANHE-2 WAS IN FIRST PLACE IN THE TOP-500, and as far as I remember, in the top-10 there were either 4 or 6 Chinese ones. That is, COMPLETE dominance over the West.

        These products are no longer mass-produced and their origin is quite easily controlled.

        What products? No one takes supercomputers anywhere, they are made on the spot. Are you talking about computing processors? About V100? So they are MADE in CHINA, and they also make vidyuhi on them, and also in CHINA.
      2. 0
        25 March 2023 14: 58
        There is nothing about PRO. But what anti-Sovietism, mother! laughing
  22. +2
    22 March 2023 18: 23
    The end of the article is strange. Cheap energy is not an advantage of the computer that consumes it. And the cold climate is generally funny - do you think these cars are standing on the street? Siberian cooling system?
    1. +1
      23 March 2023 08: 42
      I think that if they start making super on the original Elbrus 4C, then it may well get to a couple of gigawatts per complex (this is to at least enter the end of the TOP-500), so there will be cold to the place laughing
  23. +4
    22 March 2023 18: 57
    Money is allocated for the development of a domestic photolithograph, the main component in the microelectronics production chain. This will theoretically allow the production of graphics chips by 2030.
    Author, come on, no offense! Do you yourself believe in what you write? If not, then you are a scoundrel. And if so, then it's a fool.
  24. +6
    22 March 2023 19: 58
    Firstly, we have very inexpensive electricity,
    --------------

    It would be funny if it were not so sad.

    the author of Fedorov, do you even fool what you write? or just living in your fantasy virtual world?
  25. 0
    22 March 2023 21: 43
    In Russia, of course, the most famous and most powerful of these is the “super” of the National Defense Control Center. There is not much open information about this machine, but it is claimed that the performance is about 16 Pflop / s. If this is true, then the computer is among the fifty most powerful in the world. The computing potential of the machine on Frunzenskaya Embankment is more than three times higher than the capabilities of a similar supercomputer in the Pentagon.
    One of the purposes of the supercomputer of the Russian Ministry of Defense is modeling and forecasting the development of military conflicts. The machine's algorithms are said to have reported a government crisis in Venezuela weeks in advance. One can only guess what predictions the 16-petaflops computer makes about the outcome of the special operation in Ukraine. And what models did she generate before February 24, 2022
    Yeah, you know ... winked
  26. -2
    23 March 2023 10: 06
    While funds are being allocated for the photolithograph, new technical processes are being introduced there and monstrous supers are being built that allow simulations and calculations that can only be dreamed of in Russia. request
    1. 0
      23 March 2023 11: 55
      While funds are being allocated for the photolithograph, new technical processes are being introduced there and monstrous supers are being built that allow simulations and calculations that can only be dreamed of in Russia.

      Bot? Chat zhpt?
      1. 0
        23 March 2023 15: 00
        At the very least, this pretty good development of AI annoys me.
        1. 0
          23 March 2023 18: 37
          At the very least, this pretty good development of AI annoys me.

          Yes, this is a comment.
          While funds are being allocated for the photolithograph, new technical processes are being introduced there and monstrous supers are being built that allow simulations and calculations that can only be dreamed of in Russia.

          he writes at once. laughing So you have to be tight. True and previous, much more primitive bots can write like this: not a glimpse of thought, just piecewise copy-paste, not even from the trash heap, but from the training manual.
  27. 0
    27 March 2023 17: 57
    Well, the MORE the state is interested in the development of knowledge-intensive processes of its diverse economy, the more this country will have supercomputers. In terms of the number of them, the smartest and most interested settled in China, followed by a lame hegemon ... and at the end of the list of types, according to 2022, we are in the "honorary" 8th place in terms of the number of as many as 7 pieces with capacities in 40 and 43 places. In short, go ahead, conquer exaflops. We have a bit pale and sickly and Hirovato (a purely Japanese surname).
  28. 0
    April 26 2023 12: 22
    For some things, it is not at all necessary to load the machine - you can carry out a chain of full-scale tests. Yes, it will be expensive - but it will free up the power of machines for more breakthrough things that just cannot be carried out "in nature".
    Without our own "stones" we will lose the advantage in this area, and indeed, in machine learning, neural networks and other critical technologies. I doubt that "above" understand the depth of this problem. All this cannot even be compared with Industrialization - we will not have time to make up for such things from g and sticks, neither collective farms nor sharashki will help here. Either systematic work with schedules for decades ahead - or technical, then technological, then civilizational and military lag.