“Left attempts to return satellites”: Russia received the OneWeb equipment left at Baikonur for undivided use

OneWeb has become one of the most ambitious projects of our time related to the development of communication networks on a global scale. This program provides access to broadband Internet through the launch of numerous satellites into earth orbit that cover most parts of the planet.

The mass launch of equipment into space required the active participation of Russia, which offered the best services in commercial terms. So, after the first launch of OneWeb satellites from the Kourou cosmodrome in French Guiana, all subsequent ones were carried out exclusively from sites located in the Russian Federation (Vostochny, Baikonur). However, in 2022, against the backdrop of anti-Russian sanctions associated with the start of the NWO, OneWeb Corporation was forced to curtail its cooperation with Moscow, switching to the services of India and, mainly, the United States.

At the same time, equipment remained at Baikonur, which was previously planned to be launched into space by Russian carriers. The terms of the contract require unambiguous compliance with the terms of the agreement. In this regard, OneWeb can see its satellites either in orbit, or it must be ready to say goodbye to them.

As explained in the management of the corporation, they lost hope of "dispersing amicably":

OneWeb has abandoned attempts to return its equipment [36 satellites worth about $50 million] from the Baikonur Cosmodrome.

Western journalists became concerned about the possible "technological espionage" of Moscow, which received the corporation's equipment for its undivided use. However, her head called it a "minor problem." Apparently, against the backdrop of a sharp increase in costs associated with the use of US launch sites, this is really of little interest.

Comments

[Alien From]

With Musk, apparently, this corporation was losing it.

[donavi49]

Well now there is actually a temporary monopoly. 3 ready-to-deploy/deployable mega-groups (Amazon, Starlink, OneWeb) and 1 type of launch vehicle that is capable of launching them. The rest, of course, can also, but the launch cost + the number of launches per year make any mega-group unrealistic. And it is forbidden to work with the Chinese.

This is a temporary situation, but now, in fact, Musk is saving OneWeb - his main competitor from ready-made ones. And only a later withdrawal period allowed Bezos not to bow to Musk yet. So far, not a single missile contracted by Bezos has flown. The volcano is being intensively prepared for the May launch. And there are very big doubts about the intensity of flights in the first 3-5 years. For the loading is very optimistic and a wagon and three bogies were placed on it (because it immediately changes Delta and Atlas - the military, NASA, all bought launches at 23-25).

Arian 6 left for maybe 23 and it will work out. But really, this is a soft carry on 24 (from the first half of 23 which is also a carry from 22).

New Glenn - he's barely moving in industrial hell there. Probably generally 25-26. Most likely, the Neutron from Beck will fly much earlier than Glenn.

[Blackmokona]

So far, not a single missile contracted by Bezos has flown.

Amazon has contracted all remaining Atlas-5s. Therefore, there is one finished rocket.

[donavi49]

Well, there are tears that really do not solve anything. 10-11 Atlas bought by NASA/military. The rest of 8-9 Atlases will go to Bezos. And that's all, because the Atlas is being assembled from stock. They need about 90 launches.

[Maz]

It was yours, it's ours. Bash on bash, you are our assets, and we are your assets. 1:1 in our favor

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Maz

It was yours, it's ours. Bash on bash, you are our assets, and we are your assets. 1:1 in our favor

OneWeb has given up trying to get its hardware back [36 satellites worth about $50 million]

The shell of a worn egg is not worth it.
And there is nothing to discuss.

[Uprun]

Yes, everything has already been dismantled and assembled by cogs for a year of sanctions .....

[Plastmaster]

Nah, the satellites also cut the budget. Something in met color.

[Amateur]

The CIA once allowed the KGB to "accidentally" steal an IBM-360 along with the OS and documentation. The big guys from the MRP (Ministry of Radio Industry) launched them into a series called the "ES" computer, ruining their own developments and ensuring that the USSR was behind "in hardware" by 20 years, in "software" by 30 years, and in OS - probably forever.
No matter how these Vanvebs turn out to be another similar "gift"

Fear the Danes
The gifts of those who bring
(Almost folk wisdom from Homer)

[ABC-schutze]

For what particular "hardware" and in which specific year (nomenclature, manufacturing technologies for IS, SIS, LSI, VLSI, types of structural and technological performance, etc.), the USSR as a whole and the MEP, in particular, "lagged behind" Uncle Sam for 20 years?..

[minus]

Yes, all over. First of all, for the reason that they undertook to copy the ibm-360. Having rooted the development of their design school and pushed back the projects and development of Minsk or BESM-6 machines. Which at that time greatly outperformed ibm in performance ..... Here is the copying of someone else's and the time and finances spent on this copying caused the lag .....

[Roman_vh]

And who is the IBM-360 clone? There are many PDP clones, the entire SM line.

[minus]

IBM-360 clones? So a series of ES computers. And SM, yes, a vile clone of PDP .... Oh, and I cursed in 96/97, when in my first year at the Department of Cypriot IP on a SM computer I had to study .... Bogomerzny machine))))) But KM capacitors in them a lot)))) When closer to the 2000s they were finally written off, the leadership of the department sent students to solder them during the summer practice))))

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Minus

But there are a lot of KM capacitors in them)))) When closer to the 2000s they were finally written off, the leadership of the department sent students to solder them during the summer practice))))

Did you at least share the proceeds?

[minus]

No, of course) Then they cost kilobucks kg km)

[ABC-schutze]

"All over" is not an answer, but "watering" ...

Take the MEP reference book (MANY volumes on software and IP, for specific years. And take ANY "foreign" DATA BOOKs for the years, say, from 1973 to 1985 ... And show me. "20-year lag" of the USSR in accessories...

[minus]

It was the logic and processors that were mostly copies of Western models! And it was the topic of copying that led to this! Production of analogs, no more! Let not 20 years, let it be 10 in the end. And even at our department they developed their own controller for NGMD based on a foreign sample !!!! In the early 90s, for NGMD 5,5'! Based on a foreign! And even produced in small series! I do not take into account specialized controllers and logic. I met in Krasmash products for the civilian market with very specific products ...

[ABC-schutze]

Uh.. No, that won't do...

For "20 years" is 20 years, and "10 years" is ALREADY 10 years. In addition, these "10 years" did not exist either. And there was, MAXIMUM, according to the extremely general and more emotional form you indicated, the lag was no more than 3-4 years ... And, at the same time, it was CONTINUOUSLY and QUICKLY reduced ...

As for the "blatant curses" in the direction of "copying", excuse me, this is a very popular occupation for post-Soviet armchair "theoreticians-analysts". For EVERYTHING, INCLUDING the States themselves, in the sphere of IET (development and production of components) were engaged in copying both technologies and circuit solutions and designs. And pretty wide...

Depending on the situation and the NEEDS of the COUNTRY, which were dictated by this situation, in the field of IET ALL, along the paths that the WHOLE WORLD walked ...

Those. practiced both direct copying (the so-called "reverse" design), and the so-called. "full", etc. "partial" design...

[minus]

Well, yes, well, yes .... And now there is nothing of our own at all !!! All new processors on licensed cores. Just like the OS...

[minus]

Fine. Let's take the appeared squalor kr580vm80. Just with an interval of three / four years, it appeared after 8080. But, however, even after 15 years it did not become similar in quality! Pathetic similarity ..... As in principle, all subsequent series, for example T34 ....

[the same doctor]

Why don't you like KR580VM80A? The whole line of analogues of the Spectrum on it was and they did not break!

[minus]

Where did it shrink? At least our manufacturers? Foreigners had projects superior to ibm and pentium. Unfortunately gone into oblivion due to the thoughtlessness of the manufacturer. Take for example the Amiga from Commodore, with its processors from the motorola + an excellent OS. When the personal computers of the early 90s were significantly superior to the same Pentium 2. I personally had the opportunity to compare the Pentiums of the second with the old amines at that time .... but what do we have? Where are we? Where is our development, where is our OS?

[Alex Nevs]

But it’s weak to answer yourself? And according to VM80, did we have anything else? So he littered with his smart "squalor".

[Scientist]

Borrowing and copying, indeed, was and is everywhere, only copying is different. Because with the EU they demanded to stupidly copy EVERYTHING. And architecture and element base, and software. So the element base and could not copy one to one. So we got something, trying to make it work and all the forces left.

[KCA]

It’s good to drive here about the development of NGMD 5.25 '' controllers in the 90s, since at least 86 they have already been developed and put on serial EU personal computers and IBM PC clones, which were made in the USSR and the CMEA countries, Pravets in Bulgaria, Robotron and Videoton in Hungary, this is just what I personally touched with my hands, on the copy of MAS Pravets-8 there was generally a 3.5 "flop drive

[minus]

Edit -8 whose element base? Or were our robotrons? I'm talking about microcircuits of the USSR / Russia.

[KCA]

BESM-6, of course, was a straight forward computer, in 90 or 91 I found one at the disposal stage, ferrite coils as memory and thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of radio tubes, it was just a breakthrough, it consumed electricity like a rolling mill

[minus]

In what year they abandoned their development, do you remember? At least 15 years have passed since that moment .... And yes, Robotron is still East German, not Hungarian, as you wrote.

[minus]

And the most important thing is that BESM-6 is semiconductor, not tube! So go by! With your architecture, which was undeservedly ruined for the sake of unification with Western machines.

[Scientist]

Firstly, its production began in 1967, that is, almost 30 years have passed since the development. What is such a term in electronics, you can look at personal computers or cell phones. By the way, as you were told, it was transistor, not tube. But most importantly, there was a powerful potential for modification and development. And they worked perfectly with new peripherals such as magnetic disks, terminals, plotters. I worked with both BESM-6 and ES-1061, and so the first terminals worked much more stable. And about the OS on the ESK, I generally keep quiet. Such squalor had to be invented. By the way, later the developers of the same copied OS themselves said that this was a "second system syndrome" and an example of how not to do it.

[Aviator_]

thousands if not hundreds of thousands of radio tubes

And you don’t confuse this with BESM-2? There were no lamps on the six.

[Alex Nevs]

Would you also like Wooden abacus or .... iron "Felix" to compare Weak?

[Guran33 Sergey]

The question is not lagging behind, walking a little behind ..The question is that when they began to massively use the Latin alphabet in programs and mashup languages, the Cyrillic alphabet became a provincial thing. All neighbors in Cyrillic have already switched to a largely inconvenient one (as the Kazakh explained to me - 27 characters for reproducing 36 sounds of the language create a situation where some will have to write in 4 characters), on the outskirts only the civil (own) war prevented the Tribalts from doing this English second state (they soon they will lose their languages ​​- young people already do not know their own well) and if nothing changes with programming, this fate awaits us, since mass digitalization will require officials with excellent knowledge of American / English.

[Scientist]

Do not confuse soft with warm. Yes, English is a much better language to use in programming than most languages. But what does this have to do with the rest of the population and, especially, officials? Now, on the contrary, all more or less common programs are localized. And the user works with the interface, not with the texts of the programs.
And the widespread use of the Latin alphabet, indeed, leads to the fact that "we write one thing, we pronounce something completely different." Because any alphabet is created taking into account the phonetic features of its particular language.

[The cake is a lie]

Allowed to accidentally "steal." it was in the 1960s.

But how then the first multiprocessor complex "Elbrus-1" was launched in 1979. It included 10 processors and had a speed of about 15 million operations per second. This machine was several years ahead of the leading Western models of computers. different
from western computers symmetrical multiprocessor architecture with shared memory + secure programming implementation with hardware data types, and superscalar processor processing ! This was not there then. Plus, a single operating system and all these features implemented in the Elbrus series appeared much earlier than in the West, the principle of which is used in our PCs.
And also read about Elbrus 3.

And in the 90s they wrote stories in the newspapers about how Stalin was told that the Americans began to count on some kind of computers, where Stalin replied "our people will count faster on the accounts

It was on such nonsense that myths about the backwardness of computers were born.

[user]

The CIA once allowed the KGB to "accidentally" steal an IBM-360 along with the OS and documentation. The big guys from the MRP (Ministry of Radio Industry) launched them into a series called the "ES" computer

Do not write nonsense.
in the 60s we went head to head. But money played its role, if you remember, then at that time we did not have a lot of oil and gas, they only tried to develop it in the lower floodplain of the Ob. At the top, they thought that through the Robotron gasket created for this purpose (if anyone has not forgotten this is the GDR), we will be able to buy everything on this topic in the West. It's just that no one then imagined the role that microelectronics and computer technology would take in the future, and budget revenues did not allow such a project to be carried out in full. Before these, remember there was an atomic bomb, satellite and astronautics, between times they carried out a complete rearmament of the army and navy, and the decision to restore Stalingrad, for example, was made (if memory serves) only in 1967. Yes, for the sake of interest, ask when the restoration took place in Sevastopol or Minsk with Kiev, I'm not talking about Siberia or the Far East. They just created the Energy Complex, and this is a cascade of hydroelectric power stations, which finally made it possible to start developing the Siberian regions, and after all, one Krasnoyarsk or Bratsk hydroelectric power station was worth enormous costs.

If Samotlor or Surgut had been opened earlier, maybe something happened differently.

[Blackmokona]

Not Oniveb broke off cooperation, but Roskosmos broke off for its part.
Also, Oniveb is already successfully launching satellites with the help of Musk and India.
Well, according to the captured satellites, there are biddings with the EU. Since our specialists are urgently evacuating on the orders of Rogozin, who tore cooperation. They threw a bunch of their equipment on the Kura and the EU offers to exchange.

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

Not Oniveb broke off cooperation, but Roskosmos broke off for its part.

Roskosmos terminated cooperation with OneWeb due to a gross violation of the latter's contract - refusal of documents previously signed by them, at the conclusion of the contract, about the non-use of the group for military purposes against Russia. In addition, in violation of the terms of the contract, they introduced representatives of the British government into the leadership.

The legal requirements of Roskosmos, as a party to the contract, to remove the British from the leadership of OneWeb in accordance with the previously adopted agreement were ignored.

Quote: BlackMokona

Also, Oniveb is already successfully launching satellites with the help of Musk and India.

In September, OneWeb reported a loss of $230 million due to the cancellation of launches planned from Baikonur and the inability to return satellites.

Quote: BlackMokona

Well, according to the captured satellites, there are biddings with the EU. Since our specialists are urgently evacuating on the orders of Rogozin, who tore cooperation. They threw a bunch of their equipment on the Kura and the EU offers to exchange.

Why lie? There was no "emergency evacuation". The shift of employees of the RCC "Progress", who participated in the launches in Kourou, packed their things and calmly left for their homeland. There was no "heap of own equipment" at the spaceport - the spaceport belongs to the ESA, as well as the equipment on it.

But what is left in our ESA is our Mars landing probe "Kazachok" in Turin. At that moment, he was there undergoing integration with the European flight module and the rover. But this has nothing to do with the situation with OneWeb.

[Blackmokona]

1. There was never such a contract. OniWeb immediately and constantly shouted about its military use, they even had a separate tab on the site about it. Also, during the bankruptcy and rescue by the British government, it was directly said about the use in military needs. After that, Roscosmos continued to launch rockets with satellites.
2. These losses are related to the fact that Roscosmos appropriated the money transferred to it for launches.
3. It was, so the EU is thinking what to do with all this equipment.

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

1. There was never such a contract.

Wrong. Rogozin openly showed documents where all this was written in black and white. And there were signatures of the heads of OneWeb and Arianspace.

Quote: BlackMokona

2. These losses are related to the fact that Roscosmos appropriated the money transferred to it for launches.

According to the terms of the contract, in case of non-performance by the opposite party, the money prepaid for launch services will be returned do not return. That's what the contract says, is that clear to you?

Representatives of OneWeb have never, in all this time, even blathered about the return of this money or going to courts on this matter.

Quote: BlackMokona

3. It was, so the EU is thinking what to do with all this equipment.

Name a list of this equipment. I told you what's left. Three Soyuz-2 launch vehicles previously acquired by Arianspace were delivered to the Kourou cosmodrome. They do not belong to Russian equipment, as they are the property of Arianspace.

[Negro]

Quote: slipped

The legal requirements of Roskosmos, as a party to the contract, to remove the British from the leadership of OneWeb in accordance with the previously adopted agreement were ignored.

When a freight company demands to remove someone from the board of directors of its client, threatening otherwise to hang the goods that it undertook to transfer, this is arrogant to the point that it is not even funny.

Whether Wang Web will get arrest warrants for Mr. Borisov and Mr. Rogozin remains to be seen in time.

[slipped]

Quote: Negro

When a trucking company demands to remove someone from their client's board of directors....

Roskosmos Group of Companies is not a "cargo company". Do not produce essence.

Quote: Negro

Whether Wang Web will get arrest warrants for Mr. Borisov and Mr. Rogozin remains to be seen in time.

You won't live.

[45_cm]

Well, of course, Roscosmos Group of Companies is a diversified company.
The negro meant the transport department of this company, which is engaged in cargo transportation. And he earned 99% of the export earnings of this diversified company. And so - yes, the company is diversified, not a cab driver. ))))

[Negro]

Quote: slipped

You won't live.

Still funny?

[begemot20091]

I read all of you smart and educated ... (Where are we babblers? ...) and I remember a couple of stories from my youth. We were young ambitious students. I’ll frankly say: “The teachers at the military department were simply put into a puddle. Especially in subjects related to ballistics and calculations. What they calculated in 10 minutes we did in a couple of minutes. And then one “polkan” said “golden” words: this you are now smart, but a little bit of a war will begin and there will be no electricity, no gasoline, kerosene ... You will get the scores, slide rulers. You will knit positions in "moves", measure angles with theodolites ... This is the prehistory. "Adadtsat years in Kapustin Yar I met with brothers in arms. They were packed to the fullest, but ... Damn, they got lost in our dirty and dusty off-road. Three tracts on the map and a couple of "false" triangulators for 15-20 km. They are already poor in 6 hours they ate all the water - they wandered in a circle. Fuck knows how their topographers "attached", calculated (they had programmable calculators - a miracle for our soldiers). So ... Computers and other crap - this is the first minute of a REAL war And then, like the EU Enina "Once we caught them ...
They are in axes, we are the same.
From the ringing and rattle of steel
A shiver ran through my body...

[Tagan]

Quote: Amateur

The CIA once allowed the KGB to "accidentally" steal an IBM-360 along with the OS and documentation. The big guys from the MRP (Ministry of Radio Industry) launched them into a series called the "ES" computer, ruining their own developments and ensuring that the USSR was behind "in hardware" by 20 years, in "software" by 30 years, and in OS - probably forever.

By "software" for 30 years? What do you mean? And it seems that software and OS were separated for some reason. Meanwhile, the software also has a bunch of gradations.

[km-21]

The availability of samples of Western satellites does not give significant results that can provide a technological breakthrough. The basis of a modern communication satellite is microelectronic components with high performance, energy efficiency, small weight and resistance to aggressive space conditions. To establish our own production of such components, we need not samples of finished products, but technologies for their production. But alas, we will not find such intelligence inside the satellite.

[slipped]

Quote: km-21

To establish our own production of such components, we need not samples of finished products, but technologies for their production. But alas, we will not find such intelligence inside the satellite.

We have our own technologies for the production of the necessary components for such spacecraft. Moreover, already this year the first demonstration spacecraft of three new domestic constellations of low-orbit communication satellites will be launched into space to debug work with similar small satellites. The next launch will take place in the summer.

[Alex Nevs]

Well, iron is one thing, what about software? And "h and t about"? Bubbles in a puddle It.

[tolancop]

Quote: Minus

Yes, all over. First of all, for the reason that they undertook to copy ibm-360.

I think that cause and effect are still mixed up. Copy IBM did not come from a good life. And not least because of the possibility of using bourgeois software. Before the "copy" turned out, apparently so-so. A year ago, VO had a series of articles on the history of Soviet and foreign computing technology. The articles are not indisputable, but it was interesting to read about many things. And copying someone else's sample is a normal approach, which allows you to save a lot of time and money, and learn too. The main thing in choosing a sample is not to make a mistake and not get stuck at the copying stage. And with regard to the nomenclature and reliability of the element base, the USSR was definitely behind the Americans for many years.

[VladimirNET]

Well done, this time - it was not possible to deceive us!

[Rzzz]

50 lyam? And they won't even notice. In addition, there may be insurance, it is unlikely that they entered the Russian Federation without insuring such a Force Majeure.

[APASUS]

The problem is not the abandoned satellites, but the ability or the Russians to use them

[the same doctor]

You are absolutely right. The problem is with the authorities, who, due to their incompetence, do not know which of the electronics engineers can be given money, what they need to ask and how to evaluate the results.
Musk's companions are an excellent example of a practical task for our specialists and a test of effective managers for the ability to organize something real:
Hang this equipment on Chinese-type stratospheric balloons, purchase Maskov's ground terminals, correct the software and use it to communicate with our troops. Distribute these tasks to two or three research institutes and design bureaus. At the same time, we will conduct a selection of specialists: we will be able to select those who really can do something, and who gobble up the budget in vain ...

[the same doctor]

Hang this equipment on Chinese-type stratospheric balloons, purchase Maskov's ground terminals, correct the software and use it to communicate with our troops. Distribute these tasks to two or three research institutes and design bureaus. At the same time, we will conduct a selection of specialists: we will be able to select those who really can do something, and who gobble up the budget in vain ...

[Terrible ensign]

Eugene, Baikonur is located in the river Kazakhstan.

[Diger]

Apparently, against the backdrop of a sharp increase in costs associated with the use of US launch sites, this is really of little interest.

What kind?
The Indians launch, they get $ and develop their astronautics.
What rejoice?

In 2021, India backed Russia, and in 2023 it will definitely bypass.
As a result, the great space power, which shared 1-2 place, drops out of the top three world leaders, and then slides below 4.
The OneWeb satellite constellation was originally planned to have 648 satellites per LEO

as of January 2023, they had launched 544 satellites, of which 542 were operational

OneWeb was going to launch 36 of its satellites to RNSoyuz from Baikonur in March, when the Russian government placed serious conditions on the launch, including requiring the British government to give up its stake in the company. The OneWeb board refused to agree to these terms and announced that it would suspend all launches from Baikonur.

satellites in the amount of $272,3 million and loss of advance payment for launches: $1 million. This is offset by $44,1 million in fee waivers, including payments for future launches no longer scheduled at Soyuz.

[sdivt]

Quote: Maz

you are our assets and we are your assets. 1:1 in our favor

Well, yes, so, in fact, one to one) But each of these units has too different weight)
I recalled a bearded anecdote, very relevant in meaning:
Sells a peasant in the market sausage, praises
- sausage, nightingale, fly in, a delicacy!
Buyers:
- How? from nightingales alone? and nothing else?
- Well... how can I tell you... yes! almost from nightingales! and some horsemeat
- what is the ratio?
- one to one!
- In terms of? 50 to 50?
- no, one nightingale - one horse!

[sdivt]

Quote: also a doctor

Hang this equipment on Chinese-type stratospheric balloons, purchase Maskov's ground terminals, adjust the software and use it to communicate with our troops

Stratostats, according to the Chinese model - a thing that is practically uncontrollable, flies where the wind blows, today it is above us, and in a conditional tomorrow - somewhere over the Atlantic or Africa