F-15EX instead of F-35 like Su-35S instead of Su-57?

122
F-15EX instead of F-35 like Su-35S instead of Su-57?

Now if many people decide that the author decided to mix some crazy cocktail, then they will be wrong. Everything is still crazier and more complicated than it seems at first glance, and what is happening will not have to be tried to be embraced at once in one fell swoop, but to master quietly, as you know what is poured over ice crowbar. Although at one time we preferred a steel corner from the KUNG sheathing.

The answer to the question “Why the F-15 again” lies far back in the early 90s of the last century. So let's go to history... Normally.



So, the nineties, USA. Generals from aviation they really want new planes, because chic, brilliance and beauty and cut. And do not forget about fighting, because Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria, Libya and the list goes on. Therefore, already at the end of the 20th century, the generals were brainstorming over what they would fly into the 21st century with. That is, new aircraft were needed. Lots of new and cool planes to keep everyone in awe and fear.

Of course, the planes had to be of the fifth generation and nothing else.

Of course, they flew into the 21st century on planes of this very fifth generation, but the trouble is that it turned out a little expensive.


The fact that the F-22 has become a “black hole” that absorbs money faster than the machine prints it was understood by everyone in the last century, because the Raptor began to be pushed away from flights, where it began to eat dollars like crazy, to cut funding and in general to prepare for not honorable, but resignation.


The F-35 was darling: it didn’t crack money in such wild quantities, in comparison with the F-22 it turned out to be generally cheap and simple. But the trouble is - although the plane did not burn bags of dollars in the afterburner, it had other shortcomings. More precisely, hundreds of small problems that are still being fixed. Many experts say that the F-35 has not yet been brought to a state of full combat readiness.

But the main problem is not even that. The main problem is that Russia has successfully tested and used its hypersonic weapon "Dagger", using for this one of the oldest aircraft of its Air Force. Another question is that today no aircraft in the world can compare with the MiG-31 in terms of speed and height.


In response, the United States made its own hypersonic weapons, but the trouble is: the F-22 and F-35 are not able to carry it, because when these aircraft were created, they thought about hypersonic missiles strongly for the future, and therefore the volume of the weapons compartments of the F-35 and F-22s simply do not allow such weapons to be placed there. And the external suspension of stealth aircraft is not held in high esteem, as you know.


Accordingly, someone had to move these missiles in the air, so the United States decided to follow the example of Russia: just take and make a modernized version of some old aircraft for hypersonic missiles.

It is clear that the United States did not have its own MiG-31, but by analogy with the creation of modifications based on the Su-27, which are more like completely new aircraft (yes, the Su-35S), in the States they decided to portray something based on the F -15. It was a very logical decision, the Falcon was quite suitable for this.


I twist, I twist, I want to confuse!


And at first there was a word, and the word was… F-15SA.


A model created for Saudi Arabia (and the Saudis love everything advanced), on the basis of which they made an even more sophisticated F-15QA aircraft, intended for export to wealthy Qatar. In turn, they worked a little more with the Qatari version, and the result was our F-15EX.

From the base F-15E, from which the fighter-bomber for Saudi Arabia was created, the “new” aircraft differed in a richer filling, primarily in terms of electronics.


It was a two-seat fighter that differed from the F-15 in the following components:
- new digital control system;
- new radar with AFAR AN / APG-82 (V) 1;
- Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS) with information output to the helmets of both crew members;
- new displays with the projection of information on the lights of the pilot and weapon operator;
- upgraded General Electric F110-GE-129 engines;
- new, more powerful on-board computer with new software;
- complex EW and REM Eagle Passive Active Warning Survivability System (EPAWSS);
- additional weapon hardpoints.

The presence of new improved hardpoints has greatly expanded the range of ammunition that can be suspended.


The aircraft will be delivered as new from the factories, and old models of the F-15E and F-15C will be re-equipped (this is a single-seat option, which will be more fussing). The first F-15EXs have already been handed over to the US Air Force.

What is the result?


The result is something strange.

Of course, the F-15EX is two heads taller than its basic F-15E predecessor. But if anything, he will have to fight along with aircraft, which, to put it mildly, are superior to him in many ways.

F-15EX is a fourth generation aircraft, but it is one of its best representatives. Better, perhaps, only the Su-35S. Yes, it is not as stealthy as the F-22 and F-35. With subsonic cruising speed. Unable to break through layered air defense, like the F-35.

In terms of cost, the F-15EX is almost equal to the F-35 (77 million versus 80). The cost of one flight hour is also approximately equal: 27 thousand dollars for the F-15EX against 35 thousand for the F-35A.

But the F-15EX has two huge advantages over the new aircraft:
- F-15EX is capable of carrying and using hypersonic weapons on an external sling;
- F-15EX is a debugged aircraft that will simply make it possible to keep the US Air Force combat readiness at the proper level until the F-35 is brought to mind or until it goes into the NGAD series, the sixth generation aircraft that will work in conjunction with strike UAVs.

The whole question is who will have to fight against. Against the states of the third or fourth world or terrorist formations, the power of the F-15EX is more than enough even without hypersonic weapons. Against stronger opponents, it is quite possible to pair the F-15EX as a carrier of hypersonic missiles and the F-35 as a "dispersing cloud". In addition, more advanced electronics on board the F-35 will allow for target designation for the F-15EX.

Pretty controversial alignment, right?

Yes, in the States themselves, not everyone supports such a development of events. Our good friend Tyler Rogoway from "The Drive" generally lashed out at the leadership of the Air Force, who conceived such an operation. He believes that 80 units of the F-15EX is about nothing, even if we consider the aircraft solely as a carrier of hypersonic weapons.


In general, initially it was a contract for 22,9 billion dollars, under which it was planned to supply 144 F-15EX aircraft to the Air Force. Further, there was information that the number of F-15EX could be increased to 200 copies. Perhaps the plans were fairly corrected, which angered Rogovey.

In general, the US Air Force plans to decommission 2026 obsolete aircraft by 421. A replacement is planned for 304 new fighters and bombers, and the savings that will arise from the operation of a smaller fleet of aircraft will be directed to the acquisition of new and promising aircraft such as NGAD or MR-X in subsequent periods.

Of course, it is strange to watch how an aircraft that was no longer produced 15 years ago gets on the conveyor. For the United States, perhaps, everything is familiar to us. In the end, is it not our president, having entered into the meaning of spending the budget on games called PAK DA, ordered to stop perversions and re-master the production of the Tu-160. The release was mastered using the old Soviet backlog.


Roughly the same thing happens with the Su-57 and F-35. The first one has not been able to get out of the prototype stage for 20 years, although the second one has come out, and is being produced and bought, but it would be better if it lay still in the chrysalis, because the number of problems in the F-35 can only be compared with the cost of the F-35 itself.

Therefore, there is nothing special in the actions of the Americans. So what if the last US Air Force F-15E was received in 2001? It is necessary - they will start the release again, if there is everything for this.

In the end, we are also not particularly twitchy about the Su-57, because we have the Su-35S, which, at the very least, solves all issues related to the tasks of guarding and defending the country's air borders.


Exactly the same maneuver is being performed by the US Air Force today. A global upgrade of the base F-15E to the F-15EX and, as a result, the aircraft’s ability, under all previous conditions, to carry up to 22 air-to-air guided missiles or hypersonic weapons, the dimensions of which exceed the dimensions of the weapons bays of fifth-generation fighters.

Many not very knowledgeable media through the mouths of "experts" voiced the fact that the start of the production of the F-15EX is a complete failure of the F-22 and F-35 programs. Not really. F-35 has already been made more than seven hundred. Modernization of older and less modern F-15E / D and F / A-18C / D should be considered as an addition to the fleet The F-35, whose planes sooner or later will overcome their childhood illnesses.

Also, don't forget that the F-15 is the largest payload aircraft in the US Air Force outside of normal bombers. That is, the F-15 can and should be considered not as an F-35, not as a fighter-bomber, but as a fighter-bomber.


Pretty decent addition. I don’t know how quickly our engineers will debug the “Product 30” and the normal Su-57s will go to the VKS, but even after they go, it is unlikely that the Su-35s will be immediately written off and placed in museums or sold to Uganda. They will definitely fly.

And there is nothing surprising in this practice: while the new aircraft is being debugged, the old one is on combat duty for it.

Both the F-15EX and the Su-35S are great aircraft of today. The F-35 and Su-57 are the aircraft of tomorrow, which still have a long way to go on their combat path. And there is nothing fatal in the fact that older comrades are covering for young replenishment, no. Sooner or later, of course, fourth-generation aircraft will leave. But this solemn moment is still very far away.
122 comments
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  1. +1
    19 March 2023 04: 33
    It remains to wait for serial hypersonic missiles produced in the United States. If this is an analogue of the "dagger", there will be problems with placement on the F-15EX above the roof.
    1. +45
      19 March 2023 07: 12
      The article is complete nonsense. The US Air Force has had F-20s for 22 years and has been successfully used, but our Su-57 is really the aircraft of tomorrow, because there are less than ten of them in our Aerospace Forces.
      Our analogue of the F-15EX is rather the Su-34 and Su-30SM2 and not the Su-35S at all, since the main task of this aircraft is to be an arsenal of missiles for the F-35, which, being at the forefront, detects targets and delivers strikes, while remaining unobtrusive and for in order for it to remain inconspicuous and because the supply of missiles in the internal compartments is limited, they began to purchase the F-15EX.
      As for the F-35, more than a thousand of them have already been produced, but we have an analogue of this aircraft only in the form of a plywood model of the Su-75. The desire to expose the F-35 as a bad aircraft is direct sabotage and betrayal.
      Unlike the leadership of the current leadership of the USSR, at one time the threat of the appearance of the F-16 was realized, only instead of stupid chatter about how bad the F-16 is, the leadership of the USSR began the development and production of the MiG-29 in large quantities and it was the MiG-29 and not stupid propaganda about the bad F-16 and our excellent MiG-23 were the answer to the appearance of the F-16.
      1. -3
        19 March 2023 09: 26
        Quote: ramzay21
        The desire to expose the F-35 as a bad aircraft is direct sabotage and betrayal.

        The author does not say that the Penguin is a bad plane. The author says that, despite the mass production of the F-35, it still has not got rid of birth spots and about 13 flaws that significantly affect its "operational readiness" it still carries. Being in combat units! At the same time (because of these punctures!) Aircraft are lost, pilots die. And this despite the fact that the software of the machine needs to be updated almost every month! And so, the car is "very good", but for "future" wars. It’s just a flying CBU in a network-centric war ... But with stealth ... moreover, and the Su-35S (Su-57) they see it quite well at a range of confident use of airborne weapons. And so - quite a decent car. That's just with the nickname "budget fighter" for some reason, and not the super-duper Lightning II.
        AHA.
        1. +14
          19 March 2023 10: 26
          Well, for example, the Soviet MiG-23 got rid of "sores" only in the MLD modification, and this is more than 10 years from "s", but at the same time, like the F-35, it was mass-produced, it flew and fought, and was a good aircraft , although some call him an ugly duckling, he did not strive for infinite perfection on paper, like the Su-57. hi
          1. -9
            19 March 2023 15: 51
            For countries of the 3rd world (and falling into this mournful list of countries of the 2nd world) F-15 EX is redundant. For new tigers - weak. Therefore, it is unlikely to be in demand.
            1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +4
            19 March 2023 21: 18
            And Mig23mld could be upgraded and it would be quite consistent with the threats
            1. +3
              19 March 2023 23: 39
              The MiG-23 in any modification was a third-generation fighter and it didn’t have much chance against the F-16, the leadership of the USSR understood this very well, but it really was enough in secondary directions or against savages, because the MiG-23 continued to be kept and modernized. But in our Western armies, the MiG-23 was changed to the MiG-29 in the first place
              1. +1
                20 March 2023 07: 11
                The MiG-23 was originally a medium-range missile combat fighter, mainly against Phantoms. The MLD had a thrust-to-weight ratio already at the level of the F-16, although close maneuverable combat would most likely have lost. But there was an idea to modernize it by integrating avionics and radars from the MiG-29 and R-27 and R-73 missiles into it, in such a configuration it would still serve. But this did not happen, for obvious reasons.
                As for the American F-15X (both EX and CX), everything is logical there - first of all, 144 of these machines were intended for the National Guard Air Force, that is, for air defense of the continental USA, where stealth is not needed, but 22 missiles on suspensions and excellent radar with AFAR - just right.
                As a launch platform for their analogue of our "Dagger", this is also the best solution, because other aircraft are simply not capable of this.
                Yes, and they have been licking their lips at our Su-30SM and Su-35S for a long time, wanting to get something similar. Now they get it.
                And in war, any tool will be useful.
                Neither the F-35 nor the F-22 will ever be able to compete with the 4th generation in terms of payload. And having put on pylons for this, they immediately lose all their stealth capabilities. So with the new F-15X, the US is getting a more balanced air force.
                And we have ?
                And we would like the appearance of the Belka SLBM both on the Su-35S (M), and on the Su-30SM (3?) and new missiles. And the Su-57 ... well, if the Lyulkovites bring their "Product-30" to perfection, then yes. Then something might come out of the Su-75.
                And if the R-75V-579 engine is on the Su-300 .... then it will have neither price nor equal. Even VTOL aircraft can turn out wonderful.
                In the meantime, it is necessary to put into operation as many Su-35S, Su-30SM2, Su-34M as possible and at least 10 regiments on the MiG-35S (the production of which has already begun for our VKS).
                The Aerospace Forces needs an ENOUGH number of "workhorses", taking into account the need to at least double the number of combat aircraft, taking into account all the losses incurred and possible in the future. Production lines must be brought to maximum productivity. And have a good backlog.
                1. +2
                  20 March 2023 08: 45
                  Oh, it would be nice. But who will fly on these horses? The number of qualified pilots is falling. The output does not cover the needs. It is better to get the profession of a civilian pilot and go to China. There, pilots are paid much more than we do. And most importantly, you don't have to risk your life.
                  1. -2
                    20 March 2023 10: 18
                    Quote: Andrey Georgich
                    Oh, it would be nice. But who will fly on these horses?

                    So such a herd will not appear at once - the production cycle of a modern fighter is about 1,5 years, so it will take more than one year for such a herd. During this time, it is possible to have time to prepare the pilots. Current deliveries go towards re-equipping existing regiments from older Su-27s and Su-24Ms with Su-35S, Su-30SM and Su-34M. Plus, it is necessary to make up for losses from aircraft shot down in the NWO, for which there are also pilots (aircraft). In the meantime, additionally ordered aircraft will go to the regiments ... young lieutenants of new sets will arrive in time. And before that ... some will be asked to stay in the service, others will be recruited more into flight schools ... or now there are mostly institutes.
                    We also have to revive naval aviation.
                    Quote: Andrey Georgich
                    It is better to get the profession of a civilian pilot and go to China.

                    To whom is the drive and romance of a combat pilot, to whom is money dearer than the Motherland in a difficult time. request
                    Quote: Andrey Georgich
                    There, pilots are paid much more than we do.

                    I don't think it's an order of magnitude, but everyone knows that it's more and by much. And that's the problem - the frame leak.
                    The way out is to train pilots for civil aviation for money, or under a related contract with a specific airline. And the state trains military pilots for free, although this is more difficult.
                    Quote: Andrey Georgich
                    And most importantly, you don't have to risk your life.

                    How can a man live without risk?
                    And does a man run away from his country when his homeland is in danger?
                    Maybe it's not men at all?
                    And what is the demand from women? .... Especially with .... gender diversity.
                    1. 0
                      20 March 2023 20: 55
                      Quote: bayard
                      And that's the problem - the frame leak.
                      The way out is to train pilots for civil aviation for money, or under a related contract with a specific airline.

                      Or maybe start paying a decent salary, at least the same as theirs?
                2. -3
                  20 March 2023 13: 32
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  As for the F-35, more than a thousand of them have already been produced, but we have an analogue of this aircraft only in the form of a plywood model of the Su-75. The desire to expose the F-35 as a bad aircraft is direct sabotage and betrayal.

                  So the composite SU 57 flies and uses weapons. F-35
                  if this miracle weapon is so formidable that they don’t fly in Ukraine and don’t bomb out our units at the helm of which there will be ghosts of Kyiv. Ato our SU 35S shoot down their planes with impunity. laughing
                3. +1
                  20 March 2023 16: 01
                  The avionics developed, the turbojet engine too. With the installation of new turbojet engines, the thrust-to-weight ratio would not be narrower than that of the F16. There were plans to switch to a delta wing .... In reality, the main layout problem is the cockpit and poor visibility.

                  There is something else, with further modernization of the MIG23 at lower costs, it would show no worse potential than the MiG29 (especially in the first half of its career)
                4. -3
                  20 March 2023 20: 48
                  Quote: bayard
                  In the meantime, it is necessary to put into operation as many Su-35S, Su-30SM2, Su-34M as possible

                  It's time to finish with the "zoo" of the dry. Leave only the su-57, which, if necessary, will carry what is needed on external slings.
              2. -1
                20 March 2023 10: 31
                Another creation of an expert in everything and everywhere or a copywriter, whatever you like. When there was a Corona, we had experts on viruses. With its strategists who know what is best from the point of view of it, the General Staff should do it to win. Onzhe is a miracle specialist in small arms artillery, and also no one knows better than him what air defense, air force, fleet and armored forces should be like.
                While the author tries everything he said to do
                embrace in one fell swoop

                It is slowly being skipped both as a material and as an analysis by those who write on narrow topics in which they themselves are well versed.
                you know what they pour over ice scrap. Although at one time we preferred a steel corner from the KUNG sheathing.

                wassat And what was not clear?
                1. 0
                  20 March 2023 13: 17
                  Quote: insafufa

                  you know what they pour over ice scrap. Although at one time we preferred a steel corner from the KUNG sheathing.

                  And what was not clear?

                  If you recall the school course of chemistry, and not poison stories.
                  The process of separating alcohol from water can be done in several different ways. The most well-known method is heating a mixed liquid. Since the boiling point of alcohol is lower than that of water, it will quickly turn into steam. Then it can be condensed into a separate container. You can also freeze the alcohol mixture, which allows you to partially remove the non-alcoholic components; what remains will be richer in alcohol.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. +4
          19 March 2023 23: 33
          The author does not say that the Penguin is a bad plane. The author says that, despite the mass production of the F-35, it still has not got rid of birth spots and about 13 flaws that significantly affect its "operational readiness" it still carries.

          And let's discuss how many sores our analogue of the F-35 plywood Su-75 has?
          We can also talk about our Su-57 and even compare it with the F-35. Does our Su-57 have at least two times worse avionics than the F-35? Can our Su-57 detect targets with optics at least three times shorter distances than the F-35? It is enough to look at the dimensions of the AFAR fairing on the F-35 and Su-57 to understand how backward our fighter is and why they gave Pogosyan a kick in the ass.
          Being in combat units! At the same time (because of these punctures!) Aircraft are lost, pilots die.

          And do you have statistics confirming that the F-35, which flies more than all of our fighters, lost more than ours? And in our country, out of less than ten production Su-57s, we have already lost one, that is, more than 10%.
          And this despite the fact that the software of the machine needs to be updated almost every month! And so, the car is "very good", but for "future" wars.

          The software is being finalized and improved, and this is a completely normal practice for the most advanced fighter in the world today.
          That's just with stealth ... moreover, and the Su-35S (Su-57) they see it quite for themselves at a range of confident use of airborne weapons.

          The Su-57 radars, like the Su-35, of course, will be able to detect the F-35, but the trouble is that the F-35 radar will detect them much earlier and, accordingly, strike earlier. The Su-35 and F-35 are aircraft of different generations, and the real chances of the Su-35 against the F-35 are the same as those of the MiG-23 pilot against the F-16, which is why the USSR created the MiG-29, which was in many ways superior to the F-16 . Su-57 with ancient avionics but the appearance of the fifth generation of the aircraft is very controversial and in order for it to become on par with the F-35, enormous real efforts are needed, especially in the field of avionics.
          That's just with the nickname "budget fighter" for some reason, and not the super-duper Lightning II.

          This stupid joke was invented by our propagandists, and it is not at all true, because the cost of the F-35 is almost equal to the cost of the Su-35 and that is why many countries are queuing for the F-35. In our time, the modernity and combat effectiveness of a fighter determine the capabilities of its avionics and stealth, simply because it allows you to detect the enemy EARLIER and therefore attack and win. And all sorts of aerobatics are just window dressing for the show.
          1. -2
            20 March 2023 08: 06
            Quote: ramzay21
            the cost of the F-35 is almost equal to the cost of the Su-35, which is why many countries are queuing for the F-35.

            This is wrong . The purchase price of the Su-35S for the VKS is 35 million dollars. , the cost of the F-35 for the US Air Force is 80 million dollars. The export price of the Su-35S with a repair kit, spare engines (for China they sold 4 AL-41F-1S units per set each), a supply of missiles and pilot training - 100 million dollars. And for the F-35, even without additional engines, but with everything else, the price of one is 200 million dollars. + . And this is despite the fact that the Su-35S is a heavy fighter with two (!) Engines.
            Quote: ramzay21
            . Does our Su-57 have at least two times worse avionics than the F-35?

            It is difficult to judge this until the fighter goes into production in full configuration. But I don’t think that his BRLC will be worse than that of the F-35, because the Belka is an all-angle radar capable of seeing targets not only in the front hemisphere and side canvases, but also has an AFAR antenna in the stern, which the F- 35 .
            Quote: ramzay21
            Can our Su-57 detect targets with optics at least three times shorter distances than the F-35?

            You surprise me, Vasily ... in general, the OLS of the Su-35S is capable of detecting and tracking air targets at a range of 50 km. , and provide RVV guidance without the included radar. OLS Su-57 is capable of detecting air targets with optics at a distance of 70 - 75 km. smile Here, rather, the question is whether the OLS F-35 or any other fighter is capable of anything like that. In the best case, for the F-35 there will be parity.
            Quote: ramzay21
            It is enough to look at the dimensions of the AFAR fairing on the F-35 and Su-57 to understand how backward our fighter is and why they gave Pogosyan a kick in the ass.

            Pogosyan was given a kick for many other things, and the size of the radar fairing ... but what confuses you about this? Even the Irbis on the Su-35S detects a large target at a range of 400+ km. , fighters depending on the EPR. Although there is a PFAR, but due to the power of the pulse ... and also a rotary canvas with a view of up to 240 gr. "Squirrel" doesn't need to turn anything, it's AFAR.
            We also got laser target designation on the helmet for the RVV BD on the first MiG-29 and Su-27 - in the USSR. And on American fighters more recently.
            Quote: ramzay21
            The Su-57 radars, like the Su-35, of course, will be able to detect the F-35, but the trouble is that the F-35 radar will detect them much earlier and, accordingly, strike earlier.

            Firstly, on what basis are such conclusions? Do you know the characteristics of "Squirrels"? Su-57 detection range by F-35 radar?
            Yes, and the very fact of turning on the radar in the active mode will immediately give the bearing to the F-35, it will be immediately detected and the situation immediately turns into a duel.
            And what does it mean "to strike earlier"? The missiles fired by him (F-35) may well be shot down on approach, and the Su-57 missiles can reach their target. The Su-57 has no dead zones in the review, unlike the F-35. And this is his advantage - great situational awareness.
            In addition, the Su-57 has a much greater modernization potential. Twice as much ammunition on internal suspensions. Much better performance characteristics (all). And in general, these are fighters of different classes. We have a heavy one with a long range, F-35 ... medium, with moderate performance characteristics.
            But what you can not argue with, then with their number. And the quantity in such proportions always beats the quality.
            Quote: ramzay21
            the real chances of the Su-35 against the F-35 are the same as those of the MiG-23 pilot against the F-16

            In general, the MiG-23MLD could well compete with the early versions of the F-16, and if they were equipped (as planned) with radar and avionics from the MiG-29, even more so. The MiG-23 also had its advantages - much greater speed, much greater stability during supersonic flight at low altitude, a greater flight range (and this is a reserve of time for combat at a distance).
            But with regards to the Su-35S and F-35 ... they have never met in battle yet, and the outcome of the battle will depend on so many factors. Including from providing situational awareness and guidance from AWACS aircraft, the composition of the opposing groups, the experience and qualifications of pilots, the composition of weapons. Personally, I still estimate their chances of 50/50, but practice will show.
            Quote: ramzay21
            because the USSR created the MiG-29, which in many ways surpassed the F-16.

            They entered service almost simultaneously. And yes - the MiG-29 is a front-line fighter for gaining air supremacy.
            Su-35S - too. But heavier and more versatile.
            Quote: ramzay21
            the combat effectiveness of a fighter is determined by the capabilities of its avionics and stealth, simply because it allows you to detect the enemy EARLIER and therefore attack and win.

            Stealth allows you to get close to an enemy aircraft at a missile launch distance, before your own detection. This is only possible with external hover. For as soon as he turns on the radar for radiation, he will immediately be detected and all his advantages will evaporate. So in a duel situation, I would estimate the chances of 50/50, but with external guidance ... options are possible. In addition, he does not forget that when an SD missile is launched, the enemy aircraft has enough time to return a shot, before the start of vigorous maneuvering with evasion and the use of electronic warfare. So his missiles can reach their target even after the death of the carrier aircraft. This option must also be taken into account in a missile battle on SD.
            1. +1
              20 March 2023 21: 17
              Quote: bayard
              Do you know the characteristics of "Squirrels"? Su-57 detection range by F-35 radar?

              And does it exist at all, this Squirrel? And on what element base?
              The outcome of the battle between the Su-35 and the F-35 can be easily predicted by the result of the test air combat between the Su-35 and the same Rafal in one of the foreign tenders, in which the Su-35 lost epicly and solemnly.
              1. -1
                21 March 2023 15: 02
                Quote from shurshun
                The outcome of the battle between the Su-35 and the F-35 can be easily predicted by the result of the test air combat between the Su-35 and the same Rafal in one of the foreign tenders, in which the Su-35 lost epicly and solemnly.

                As far as can be judged from your short narrative, "solemnly and epic" the battle was lost by "Rafale". Yes, and one battle to judge the capabilities of complex combat vehicles ... smile Two Western cars ... and extrapolate this to a Russian car ...
                Quote from shurshun
                And does it exist at all, this Squirrel?

                Eat . Otherwise, the Su-57 would not have gone into the series.
                Quote from shurshun
                And on what element base?

                On the domestic Therefore, there was a delay with "Squirrel" because they were pulling up their element base.
                Pulled up.
                By the way, the "Sarmat" has an element base that is also entirely domestic.
                1. +2
                  21 March 2023 20: 23
                  Quote: bayard
                  As far as can be judged from your short narrative, "solemnly and epic" the battle was lost by "Rafale". Yes, and one battle to judge the capabilities of complex combat vehicles ... Two Western vehicles ... and extrapolate this to a Russian vehicle ...

                  Learn to face the truth first, and not take the ostrich posture out of fear. It's in the 1st.
                  Secondly, I will repeat especially for people like you - "honest and fearless." The Su-2 epically failed the tender, solemnly leaking a test air battle to Rafal, thereby putting an end to its export career. I hope now your ostrich posture will not prevent you from correctly understanding what you have read.
                  In the 3rd, with the "going into the su-57 series" everything has long been clear, even comments are not needed.
                  In the 4th, the results of the battles between domestic and Western fighters are easily predictable, primarily because of "their tightened" elemental base (see 2nd).
                  And lastly, when there are no adequate arguments and grounds, one should not immediately rush to the nuclear cudgel, this only proves the inconsistency in the relevant aspect.
            2. +2
              22 March 2023 16: 08
              Compare the number of aircraft drills of Russia and the United States or NATO, and you can end there
          2. -1
            23 March 2023 13: 19
            Do you know that the range of our explosive missiles is an order of magnitude higher? Yes, and with radar, everything is already fine.
        4. 0
          20 March 2023 10: 11
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          That's just with the nickname "budget fighter" for some reason, and not the super-duper Lightning II.

          Judging by the cost of a flight hour in combat conditions, the F-22 confidently approached "half and a half", leaving far behind the entire IBA of the previous generation and even the B-1B.
        5. The comment was deleted.
      2. +4
        19 March 2023 09: 35
        and not stupid propaganda about the bad F-16 and our excellent MiG-23 were the answer to the appearance of the F-16
        Yes, the article says:
        I twist, I twist, I want to confuse!
        winked
        1. +3
          20 March 2023 08: 21
          Quote: WFP-1
          and our excellent MiG-23

          The MiG-23 was not considered an "excellent aircraft" by our pilots. Even the tester called him and the MiG-29, the MiG-23 "clumsy". My classmate, who managed to fly the MiG-23MLD, called him (when asked "how is the plane?") - "Fuel oil" ... and a dismissive gesture. And how his aircraft technicians "loved" ... angry
      3. -3
        19 March 2023 09: 45
        The United States was actively re-equipping with 35ku, so it’s not surprising that more reliable f16 / 22-type aircraft are trying to push in, they still haven’t solved the problem with the engine (and they’re not going to solve it), is it a joke a hundred lyams for 1 aircraft + because problems with the engine when working in stealth mode, a serious repair of up to 500 thousand is where the gain is. Although what is the conversation about, the taxpayer will pay, as he paid for notebooks for the army in Afghanistan at 30 thousand per piece.
      4. +5
        19 March 2023 09: 54
        Quote: ramzay21
        Our analogue of the F-15EX is rather the Su-34 and Su-30SM2 and not the Su-35S at all

        We simply have no analogues. Something close is the Su-57, and it is not clear in what configuration they go to the Air Force. There is an opinion that avionics comes from the Su-30/35. The same helmet, for example, is worn by the ancient ZSH-7. Everyone knows engines. There is no news at all on the radar. Accordingly, most likely, the Su-30/35 in the new fuselage from the Su-57 will go to the troops.
        Quote: ramzay21
        The desire to expose the F-35 as a bad aircraft is direct sabotage and betrayal.

        Quite right. Now the 4th block is underway in the series, on the 3rd block all the main problems were solved. We also have a PR program to hide the catastrophe in the videoconferencing. When we have fewer aircraft capable of carrying weapons than the F-35s produced.
        1. +1
          19 March 2023 13: 38
          + Quite right, we don’t have a nifiga!)
        2. -3
          20 March 2023 13: 26
          Quote from cold wind
          Quite right. Now the 4th block is underway in the series, on the 3rd block all the main problems were solved. We also have a PR program to hide the catastrophe in the videoconferencing. When we have fewer aircraft capable of carrying weapons than the F-35s produced.

          Soul rushed to paradise wassat
      5. +4
        19 March 2023 11: 14
        F-35 bad aircraft is direct sabotage and betrayal.

        And here I am - I’ll risk signing up as traitors, saying that he is still a shitty plane. For it is another iteration of the long-standing American dream of making a type of universal aircraft, all in one bottle, and even cheaper .. So here they also hung a vertical bar on it, which immediately negatively affected design decisions ..

        The concept itself is strange to say the least. For if this is an air defense fighter, he doesn’t seem to need stealth, but he needs maximum speeds, and supersonic without afterburner. For the fastest arrival in the desired area and long loitering over it. This is not in the F-35. And it won’t be - because they demanded to shove vertical capabilities into its fuselage, with all the consequences.

        If this is a type of front-line bomber, it also seems like it’s not very stealth type for him, when operating on the enemy’s battle formations, modern air defense will spot him one hell. It may run for 400 km, but for 100 they will definitely notice. Then - here the issues of survivability and ammunition load come to the fore. And with his survivability - apparently not at all ah ..

        If this is a front-line fighter, it lacks neither speed nor maneuverability. In a normal battle, he will lose miserably to any of the 4th generation. Plus, the features of launching missiles from a closed compartment will be superimposed - there are strong doubts that it is possible so directly in any position of the aircraft ..

        Advanced type of radar electronics - why is it with the stealth concept, for the sake of which so much has been brought? For when the radar is turned on, it will glow like a Christmas tree, with all the consequences ..

        Yes, there is much more to be said. But there is only one conclusion - this is another worthless expensive attempt. Here the previous aircraft were logical - the F-22 is a very good clean air defense fighter. And extremely dangerous. F-117 - although it didn’t come out very well, it’s quite understandable, a clean air defense breakthrough aircraft. There is no radar, no electronic warfare, everything is set to stealth. Type sneaked, bombed and quietly dumped. And here - do not understand what ..

        Pay attention - our SU-57, despite its capabilities, is still a fighter. Chinese J-31 - too. J-20 - apparently a heavy long-range fighter, an attempt to create something similar to the MiG-31.
        That is, they were designed for specific tasks, which they must perform well. And other possibilities are a nice appendage. Unlike the F-35, which tries to do everything, but sucks.

        However - what to argue. Judging by what is happening, the near future will show who turned out to be right ..
        1. +3
          19 March 2023 22: 19
          Quote: paul3390
          This is not in the F-35. And it won’t be - because they demanded to shove vertical capabilities into its fuselage, with all the consequences.

          The vertical line is only in the F-35B version, in the F-35A \ C versions there are additional fuel tanks in this place. Accordingly, their range (without refueling in the air) is different for them.
          1. -1
            20 March 2023 08: 33
            And here it is? The shape of the fuselage has not changed from this? And she is ugly for a fighter, precisely because it was required to fit a fan into it .. That's why he became a "penguin". With all the consequences.
            1. +2
              20 March 2023 22: 35
              Quote: paul3390
              From that he became a "penguin". With all the consequences.

              Penguins are versions B and C. Version A is in no way inferior in maneuverability to the same F-15 or F-16. And the second and in terms of range.
              (most curious moment at 2:40)

      6. +7
        19 March 2023 13: 18
        ... and I would like to add that the F22 program was curtailed for one simple reason - the F22 at that time simply had no opponents.
        To quote Robert Gates, the secretary of defense who did it, the summary: The Air Force and civilian contractors (and politicians) really wanted the new F22 aircraft, but could not answer the question at the time who these practically clean fighters would fight.
        The money was directed to more needed things, including:
        - urgent purchases of MCIs (so many of them were made that there is nowhere to put them, even they are attached to the Armed Forces of Ukraine)
        - urgent purchases of drones and control systems. Gates claims he was even asked to slow down a bit with the drones. "enough already", and because if they make as many as he wants, then "they will cover the sun" - something like this. And I had to "raise" the authority and working conditions of the "drone pilots", which, judging by the context, the Air Force did not really consider "friends".

        In general, it is very interesting how civil and political control over arms purchases in the United States makes people buy not what the military-industrial complex or the military "want or like" but what the "troops on the battlefield" need.

        Is it not our president, having entered into the meaning of spending the budget on games called PAK DA, ordered to stop perversions and re-master the production of the Tu-160. The release was mastered using the old Soviet backlog.
        Where does the infa come from that PAK YES was stopped? R&D / R&D - "our everything", IMHO, such a cessation is impossible!
        On Tu160: "On January 25, 2018, the Russian Ministry of Defense, in the presence of Russian President V.V. Putin, signed in Kazan with Tupolev PJSC a contract worth 160 billion rubles for the construction of ten new Tu-2027M160 bombers by 2" https://bmpd .livejournal.com/4386514.html
      7. -6
        19 March 2023 18: 06
        When and how was the F-22 successfully used? Dropped the bombs a few times and that's it. Our Su-57 already has more combat applications, including air combat.
      8. -3
        20 March 2023 16: 41
        Vovka and Dimon have already brought the Armed Forces and the defense to the handle, but this is not the limit. Here are the bastards.
      9. -1
        22 March 2023 16: 59
        The US Air Force has had F-20s for 22 years and has been successfully used
        For twenty years, as you put it, of successful use, the only air victory of this aircraft is a Chinese balloon, you can check. In response to everything that you wrote below, I can answer you with one argument: compare the defense budgets of Russia and the United States, even a superficial acquaintance with these figures will immediately say that they are, to put it mildly, not comparable. This is the only reason for the quantitative and qualitative lag of the Russian Aerospace Forces behind the US Air Force. Calm down your indignation, it is not appropriate and just look stupid.
      10. 0
        26 March 2023 12: 12
        In response, the United States made its own hypersonic weapons, but the trouble is: the F-22 and F-35 are not able to carry it, because when these aircraft were created, they thought about hypersonic missiles strongly for the future, and therefore the volume of the weapons compartments of the F-35 and F-22s simply do not allow such weapons to be placed there. And the external suspension of stealth aircraft is not held in high esteem, as you know.

        The F-35 provides for the placement of weapons on an external sling. It's called beast mode.
        In terms of cost, the F-15EX is almost equal to the F-35 (77 million versus 80).
        In general, initially it was a contract for 22,9 billion dollars, under which it was planned to supply 144 F-15EX aircraft to the Air Force.

        Yeah, the contract for 12 F-15s cost the US Air Force about 1.4 billion. Purchase only, not development. The total price tag for a unit f-15x / ex is sure to exceed 120 million. Yes, and divide 23 billion from a large contract for 144 aircraft, you will be surprised. There, under 160 lyam apiece comes out.
        Of course, it is strange to watch how an aircraft that was no longer produced 15 years ago gets on the conveyor.

        The author, f-15 is produced to this day in St. Louis, in the same place as the f / a-18 super hornet, on the assembly line of the Boeing company.
        Falcon (falcon) is an F-16. F-15 is an eagle, that is, an eagle.
        Author, what kind of article is this?
    2. -13
      19 March 2023 08: 30
      Quote: Sergey985
      It remains to wait for serial hypersonic missiles produced in the United States. If this is an analogue of the "dagger", there will be problems with placement on the F-15EX above the roof.

      What are you??!! belay "Dagger" - no "hypersonic"! angry The American "feng shui" has long said that .....: only aircraft with scramjet engines have the true right to be called hypersonic aircraft! American Hallelujah!! I'm waiting for "my supporters" from the True HyperSound sect to appear on the VO page! VO "revealed", a whole gang ,,! fellow
      1. +1
        19 March 2023 10: 54
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        I am waiting for the appearance on page VO of "my supporters" from the True HyperSound sect!
        Here we are. What did you want? I will write the same as last time: on what you can build a normal reusable hypersonic aircraft, then "true hypersonic". Rocket hypersound has been around since the mid-20th century. And later, air defense missiles appeared, capable of actively maneuvering at hypersonic speeds. But there was no hypersonic aircraft, and there isn’t, although there are materials for the hull, we know how to control hypersonic.
      2. +7
        19 March 2023 13: 42
        It’s scary to say, but even the blasphemous V-2 in 1942 went beyond M = 5 on the marching section
      3. +1
        19 March 2023 15: 33
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        "Dagger" - no "hypersonic"!
        In my opinion, if a rocket passes through the atmosphere at hypersonic speed for most of its route to the target, then it doesn’t matter what engine this was achieved with (rocket or air-breathing).
        1. 0
          19 March 2023 22: 23
          Quote: Bad_gr
          In my opinion, if a rocket passes through the atmosphere at hypersonic speed for most of its route to the target, then it doesn’t matter what engine this was achieved with (rocket or air-breathing).

          "Dagger" is a reduced "Iskander", with the same flight path. The apogee of both is outside the atmosphere.
          1. 0
            20 March 2023 10: 37
            No, the Dagger is an adapted Iskander. to an air carrier.
            1. +1
              24 March 2023 16: 30
              Quote: And Us Rat
              "Dagger" is a reduced "Iskander", with the same flight path. The apogee of both - out of the atmosphere

              The apogee of both is in the atmosphere. But you can also use trajectories with an apogee outside the atmosphere, nothing forbids this.
        2. 0
          April 1 2023 10: 32
          Not at all. Scramjet (with SG or not - these are already details) dramatically increases the autonomy and energy resources of the product. For example: KR Tomahawk with nuclear warheads has a range of 2500 km - due to the use of turbojet engines. A product with a liquid-propellant rocket engine that is similar in terms of weight and dimensions will have an order of magnitude shorter range. It was not for nothing that the British were busy with a turbojet engine at the Hotol videoconferencing system a third of a century ago - the use of atmospheric oxygen as an oxidizer in combination with a turbojet engine in theory made it possible to create a fully reusable unit with a mass of 250 tons and a load capacity of 5-6 tons. That is, in terms of its characteristics, it was similar to the Soyuz launch vehicle. But the descent vehicle returns from the Soyuz launch vehicle - if anything returns at all. And here a fully reusable apparatus was planned. But the stone flower did not come out...
    3. +2
      19 March 2023 10: 44
      GAM-87 (XAGM-48A) Skybolt (cruising speed over 6M) - air-launched aeroballistic missile developed in the USA from 1958 to 1962. It was not put into service.
      1. 0
        19 March 2023 22: 25
        Quote from Sumotori_380
        GAM-87 (XAGM-48A) Skybolt (cruising speed over 6M)

        "Slightly" more.
        Maximum speed: 9,500 miles per hour (15,300 km/h; Mach 12)
        1. 0
          24 March 2023 20: 44
          Did you know that speed converted to mach depends on altitude? So how many Machs at 15 km / h is not known.
    4. 0
      19 March 2023 19: 17
      China has an analogue of the Dagger (Tu16 carrier), nothing prevents hanging an analogue of Hymars 220mm or ATAKms 600mm under F15.
      1. +2
        19 March 2023 22: 29
        Quote: Zaurbek
        nothing prevents hanging an analogue of Hymars 220mm or ATAKms 600mm under Ф15

        Elbit did it a long time ago.


        And even sold to the Indians.
        1. +1
          20 March 2023 10: 39
          I don’t understand why the Russian Federation didn’t do the same with the 300mm Tornado missile. 2-3 pieces would fit under the MiG31. The range of a land missile is 120 km ... in the air they would get 300 km.
        2. 0
          7 June 2023 22: 14
          And "Rocks"... 500 kilometers? Indians most often write about "Rampage" - 250 km ...
  2. -2
    19 March 2023 04: 41
    Well, apparently, they started early until the 5th generation. The fourth has not yet fully exhausted its modernization resource. And there is nothing terrible in this, it’s just that the Americans decided to “kill” everyone, but it turned out somehow crooked.
    1. +10
      19 March 2023 09: 10
      Quote: marchcat
      it’s just that the Americans decided to “kill” everyone, but it turned out somehow crooked.

      And who did it "more evenly"? Yes, in general, who just succeeded, at least somehow? Nobody. The "mighty" EU admitted that it is no longer capable of five. The mighty USSR began implementation. But did she go smoothly? Berkut from Sukhoi is just a technology demonstrator, and the MiG 1.42 was already considered a "diamond child" at that time, because of its complexity and upcoming cost ... The Su-57 is still in the design process. I don’t feel like talking about the Chinese “five” at all, because this is not a five. Fighters have been designed and refined for decades. The 4th generation shows itself well to this day, but still inferior to the fifth in key moments. And the American "attempts" with the fifth generation are experience, invaluable experience, having which they will follow the "six", where, apparently, AI will already rule the ball by the middle of the century. Who else, you ask, has a similar experience? Who exploits the fifth generation in hundreds in combat units? And these British fairy tales "about the sixth, bypassing the fifth" by 99,999% will remain fairy tales / pictures.
      1. +7
        19 March 2023 14: 37
        And the American "attempts" with the fifth generation are experience, invaluable experience, having which they will follow the "six"
        I agree at 29 when it appeared at the Americans it always broke down and was defective, half of the aircraft returned to base after departure or fell altogether. But nothing! Those who scold f35 for breakdowns when there are already hundreds of them, you just need to read the history of aviation, where this was all the time with the most legendary cars hi
  3. +13
    19 March 2023 04: 59
    Interesting comparison. But, I'm afraid that the focus is shifted a little to the wrong place. Our planes, of course, are the most airborne planes in the world, but the main potential enemy for the United States is China, and we are so ... A semi-periphery burning through the remnants of its former greatness in the form of a legacy of a "more highly developed civilization." So, it would be more interesting to consider this news in the light of the confrontation with China and compare these machines with their Chinese counterparts.
    1. 0
      19 March 2023 05: 44
      I don’t know why you are being downvoted, but you are right. Even their patriotic air racing experts are considering China-USA. Alas, we are out for now. There are many reasons and they need to be addressed.
      1. 0
        19 March 2023 06: 35
        Quote: Mikhail Maslov
        Alas, we have dropped out for now. There are many reasons and they need to be addressed.

        And who will decide them? The current government has only pipelines and various deals on its mind, I'm afraid only memories in the older generation of the greatness of the former country will remain.
        1. +1
          19 March 2023 06: 59
          It turns out and there is no reason for her to decide something. The pipelines replenish the pocket, and the people will be explained on TV that this is exactly how it should be.
    2. +3
      19 March 2023 06: 54
      I agree with you. A comparison would be extremely interesting. The nuances are important.
      But in general, China's aircraft have characteristics close to our SU. The main problem is the engine. If we talk about engines with some kind of resource, then this is a torn off modification of the AL-31. If we talk about engines for the 5th generation, then the cat cried a lot. Yes, they get out of the situation by buying our AL-41s. But how long will this rain of money for us?
      What really cannot be taken away from our neighbor is the number of aircraft and trained pilots. They can take out any American aircraft carrier group with only one mass attack.
      1. +7
        19 March 2023 07: 44
        Yes, they get out of the situation by buying our AL-41s. But how long will this rain of money last for us?

        You are right, but the Chinese are already producing their own engines, and they are very much ahead of us in electronics and radar. The road will be mastered by the walking one, and since we stopped in many directions 30 years ago, or even lost our own technologies, we will naturally be overtaken by those who do something, the same Chinese and Indians. 20 years ago, China did not have many technologies and ordered aircraft and even obsolete destroyers from us, but over these 20 years, while we were "getting up off our knees", the Chinese have built a new powerful fleet and a new air force. And it's not about money at all, for the last 20 years we have had unprecedented income from the sale of raw materials and there was money, they were even spent, just not there.
    3. +1
      19 March 2023 08: 22
      China yes! A great power, which 3,14 was built by everyone and sundry, starting with the Mongols. They invented gunpowder and built the wall, but 1000 Britons sailed - and there is no China. Of course, the film 800 is interesting, but the question is, why did Shanghai defend one battalion, where were the rest of the billion Chinese?
      1. +7
        19 March 2023 12: 53
        all and sundry, starting with the Mongols

        But China exists and is a superpower.. And where are all these Xiongnu, Toba, Khitans, Jurchens, Mongols, Manchus now?
        1. 0
          April 1 2023 10: 46
          China is not a superpower. Because for such a status it is necessary not only to be a world workshop, but also to enter the markets of third world countries. China does not project military force around the world. The yuan is not a reserve currency. China does not carry out cultural expansion. Yes, it produces and exports a huge amount of products. Well, the monarchies of the Persian Gulf in the 70s - 80s kept the world on an oil needle. But no one in their right mind considered them superpowers
      2. 0
        19 March 2023 13: 43
        Quote: zombee
        but 1000 British sailed - and there is no China

        But now even the whole of Britain can sail, but there will be no sense. They raised this giant themselves, and now it's too late to try to "drive him under the bench", he simply won't fit there.
      3. 0
        20 March 2023 10: 15
        Quote: zombee
        China yes! A great power, which 3,14 was built by everyone and sundry, starting with the Mongols. They invented gunpowder and built the wall, but 1000 Britons sailed - and there is no China.

        No nails are made of good iron; a good man does not go to the soldier. © smile
    4. 0
      19 March 2023 09: 50
      Quote: Anton Temnukhin
      it would be more interesting to consider this news in the light of the confrontation with China and compare these machines with their Chinese counterparts.

      Your message, no doubt, has the right to exist ... But one question arises: have the hungfuzes already made a dvigun that provides supersonic cruising and is economical, well, at least like Pratt & Whitney United Technologies - the F135 engine, well, at worst F -119 like on F-22??? That is it!
      Yes, and with electronics in aviation, they are not very dense, as far as I know ... It would be all "nice", whales would not buy Su-30s and 35s from us. Not much, 2 squadrons (24 units) in total. But still...
      And the second. If you are so itching to compare the Yankees with whales - pen in ... hands, clave on the table - and release your opuses for general discussion! And to make claims against the author and criticize ... you can even have the Sun for its spots!
      IMHO.
      1. 0
        19 March 2023 12: 58
        hungfuzy already made dvigun

        Personally, I have not the slightest doubt that sooner or later they will do it. For the Communist Party still rules there, and it knows how to achieve its own. This is not our wild bunch of oligarchs .. Just look at the PRC now and only 20 years ago .. One of their fleets is worth something, I’m not talking about the economy.
  4. -2
    19 March 2023 05: 02
    we are also not particularly twitchy about the Su-57, because we have the Su-35S, which, at the very least, solves all issues related to the tasks of guarding and defending the country's air borders

    And the old SU-27s make American UAVs pretty good with kerosene.
    Each such aircraft is good in its niche ... and you should not rush to write them off from combat service.
    1. -2
      19 March 2023 10: 12
      [quote=Lech from Android.]
      we don’t twitch too much either ... and the old SU-27s are good at kerosene American UAVs.

      That's for sure! But, in fact, the Su-35 is a deep modern Su-27! The glider is practically the same, but the filling is different. There were never any questions about the integrated circuit of the airframe. He was not touched. But the stuffing changed depending on the tasks being solved.
      Therefore, when new tasks appeared, they made a machine for solving these problems - they got a new form and filled it with new content ... As a result, the Su-57 appeared, followed by the Su-75 on the way .. Dialectics! laughing
      1. +2
        19 March 2023 16: 03
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        The glider is almost the same

        The Su-35 glider is only similar to the Su-27, but it has a different wing profile, the hull is designed for heavy loads, the shape of the nose has been changed, the main material of the aircraft is not aluminum (Su-27), but aluminum-lithium alloys, the use of composite materials. According to the EPR, aircraft differ significantly from each other. For the Su-35, the degree of its static instability has been increased to 20% of the MAR (for the Su-27 - 5%). So, the similarity is only in appearance.
        1. +2
          19 March 2023 19: 14
          The difference between F15ex and f15e is exactly the same ..... it would be correct to call Su35 Su27 with letters (m, bis, fn, etc.)
          1. +1
            19 March 2023 19: 24
            Quote: Zaurbek
            correctly Su35 would be called Su27 with letters (m, bis, fn, etc.)
            Based on what arguments would this be correct? Because of the resemblance?
            1. +1
              19 March 2023 21: 20
              And this and that - the development of the T10go .... like the Mig35, the development of the Mig29. Look at f15 and f16 in the latest versions, they have even more changes, but they remain f15 and f16.
              1. -1
                19 March 2023 22: 12
                Quote: Zaurbek
                Look at f15 and f16 in the latest versions, they have even more changes,
                How can there be "even more changes" compared to aircraft that have nothing in common with each other (except for appearance)?
                1. +1
                  20 March 2023 21: 33
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  How can there be "even more changes" compared to aircraft that have nothing in common with each other (except for appearance)?

                  F-15EX alone can solve all the tasks that are solved by a whole "zoo" of dry.
                  1. +1
                    21 March 2023 14: 44
                    The funny thing is that the Su30MKI also solves them .... but worse for a generation. And relatives of the VKS will not come to this in any way
  5. +13
    19 March 2023 05: 03
    The article is interesting, although not indisputable. And yes, "Eagle" in English is "eagle", not "falcon")
  6. +5
    19 March 2023 05: 13
    in the States decided to depict something on the base F-15. It was a very logical decision "Falcon" quite suitable for this.

    I did not understand something?! Their "fighting falcon" is the F-16. F-15 is not Falcon, but Eagle, Eagle.
  7. +11
    19 March 2023 05: 45
    in the States, they decided to portray something based on the F-15. It was a very logical decision, the Falcon was quite suitable for this.

    Name F-15 Strike Eagle (Strike Eagle). Here is the F-16 Fighting Falcon and there is the Fighting Falcon. The Chukchi is not a reader, the Chukchi is a writer.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. +7
    19 March 2023 07: 38
    Everything is more banal.
    The F-35 is a continuation of the F-16, that is, in ideology it is like our Su-34, that is, it is a modern bomber capable of air combat. Yes, I understand that both the Su-34 and F-16 are nominally fighters, but we all understand that they will no longer build clean bombers like the Su-24, that is, these are precisely aircraft designed for ground strikes, but capable of effectively conducting air combat, especially with technically weaker machines.
    The F-15 is a classic air supremacy fighter, which also performs interception functions (I know that the 15s are bombers).
    So the f-15 is not a replacement for the f-35, it is to cover the f-35, primarily against China ...
    180 f-22s are simply not enough to fight China, and the old f-15s are running out of airframe resources ... So they are building new ones ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  10. +6
    19 March 2023 09: 58
    All this is an adjustment to the official point of view of the hooray media.

    They diligently look for flaws in enemy aircraft, but avoid writing real things, IMHO:
    The F35 is a small single engine bomber fighter that carries the load like our large twin engine SU bomber fighter. So countries take it - 2 planes in one bottle.
    Its disadvantages are from its advantages, according to the examples given in the media. The landing gear wears out quickly during emergency landings on aircraft carriers, the stealth coating quickly deteriorates at supersonic speed over the salty sea, a lot of electronics for all occasions, and it rarely, but sometimes fails ... etc.

    F-15 - so this is a new aircraft for a long time. It's just that the Americans do not assign, like our SU, a new number during modernization. (SU has had a line of twin brothers for a long time, you can’t tell from afar - everything is, as it were, new developments). And they add an index of letters to the old base.
  11. 0
    19 March 2023 10: 12
    Novel you write good sharp articles. But articles about weapons, please re-read them later, otherwise you read and read and stumbled once - if I remember correctly, the f-15 was never "Falcon", "Eagle" - "Eagle", but "Falcon" - " Falcon" (F-16). hi
  12. +1
    19 March 2023 10: 35
    I enjoy the author's arguments. How is it .... the cost of operation is approximately equal to - $ 27000 and $ 35000. Nothing that the second value is more than the first by a third?
  13. -6
    19 March 2023 11: 57
    A high-tech war is the essence of the notorious "blitzkrieg", which is victoriously impossible against a strong and large enemy. Any prolongation of the conflict leads to unacceptable losses, financial costs and other consequences leading to revolutionary moods of the population. For a superweapon, expensive to the point of impossibility, requires very skilled operation and maintenance. And if the enemy, with the help of a chisel, non-standard thinking and a certain mother, can find the key to destroying super-duper bells and whistles, then it is completely dreary for High-tech civilizers.
    That is why the fighters with the Russian world, with the Russian peoples, have relied on fascism, 5-6, and other numbered columns that unite traitors of any kind and kind of activity. Divide according to any signs, crush and one by one destroy those who did not surrender with "blitzkriegs".
    But the history of the treacherous destruction of the USSR by the efforts of the degraded nomenklatura taught the thinking capitalists of the new Russian elite a lot.
    Neither the F - 35, nor the "Eagles" and "Falcons" with "Abrams" will overcome a huge country, no matter how you modernize this iron. Only betrayal can give the new conquistadors a chance. Therefore, the appearance in the official press of the abbreviation "SMERSH" will mean a new Yalta. And do not care about American devices, they are leveled by a sledgehammer under the brand name "Sarmat". The enemy will be defeated, Victory will be ours.
    1. +4
      19 March 2023 13: 34
      A high-tech war is the essence of the notorious "blitzkrieg", which is victoriously impossible against a strong and large enemy. Any prolongation of the conflict leads to unacceptable losses, financial costs and other consequences leading to revolutionary moods of the population. For a superweapon, expensive to the point of impossibility, requires very skilled operation and maintenance.

      Read about the American concept of "early victory" first.
      https://topwar.ru/210352-amerikanskaja-koncepcija-rannej-pobedy-v-dlitelnoj-vojne-kak-zapad-planiruet-nanesti-rossii-porazhenie-v-vojne-na-istoschenie.html
      There and about high-precision and about the "big and strong enemy"
      spit on American devices, they are leveled by a sledgehammer under the brand name "Sarmat"

      "We're in heaven, and they just die"?
      And how many "Sartmats" are now deployed? And how is the security of launchers ensured if Ukrainian drones, converted from ancient Soviet reconnaissance missiles, attacked the strategic bomber air base in Engels twice?
      But will the decision makers have enough determination to use the Sarmat, provided that where this Sarmat flies, they have children, houses, yachts and other property, and there they plan to spend their old age and raise their grandchildren?
  14. -1
    19 March 2023 12: 31
    Finally, a series of aircraft F-14 F-15 F-16 - the most beautiful and quite successful in Mattresses! We must admit! What followed was frank bullshit to one degree or another
    (in principle, the same trend in the automotive industry)
    1. +7
      19 March 2023 14: 18
      The F-22's problem is the lack of a worthy opponent at the time of production of these aircraft. F-22 - was created as a fighter for gaining air supremacy against the latest and promising aircraft of the USSR. But the USSR collapsed without finishing the creation of the 5th generation fighter. The progress of the modernization of the MiG-29, Su-27 and the development of new ASPs has stalled (V-V missiles with ARGSN and satellite-guided precision bombs) And it turned out that the upgraded F-15 and F-16, armed with AMRAAM V-V missiles with ARGSN, they may well fight with the Su-27 and MiG-29, while they have a numerical superiority over them. Then the question arose that the expensive F-22 was not needed by the USAF in large quantities.
      The F-35 is a prime example of too many innovations and undeveloped systems being put into the combat platform. As well as the desire, characteristic of the Americans, to achieve maximum unification (the same one - Joint) and make 3 aircraft on one platform: for the Air Force, for carrier-based aviation and a vertical plane.
      The F-35 is already being mass-produced for 17 countries (about 900 units have been produced, about 3,5 thousand are planned to be purchased), which reduces the cost of production. There is a constant improvement and refinement of the F-35. No need to throw hats at him, you need to produce more of your aircraft. And then, this is some kind of shame, we cannot conquer the sky over Ukraine for a year.
    2. +1
      19 March 2023 21: 51
      Boniface
      I'll correct you a bit. The F-14 had a very good side, but was very damp, so it did not stay in service for long. But you forgot the F-18 - a worthy airplane, and one that has conquered the skies of many countries. And they also forgot the A-10 - the best American attack aircraft
  15. +1
    19 March 2023 15: 24
    Author, F-15 Eagle, not Falcon. F-15EX alone can solve all the tasks that are solved by a whole "zoo" of dry.
  16. -2
    19 March 2023 15: 40
    The extreme Tu160 was made from old backlogs. Production - not mastered. Yes, and you don't need it. We need money and brains for new developments.
    1. 0
      19 March 2023 16: 22
      Well, it's not true. At the end of last year, the Tu-160 was rolled out completely new, all technologies were restored.
      1. 0
        19 March 2023 19: 12
        And "touched" the concept of an extensible .... from almost finished, to just laid down
  17. -1
    19 March 2023 17: 24
    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    That's just with stealth ... moreover, and the Su-35S (Su-57) they see it quite for themselves at a range of confident use of airborne weapons.

    Did you yourself see it on the radar from the cockpit of the Su-35?
  18. +3
    19 March 2023 18: 52
    1. F15ex one upgrade newer than Su35S
    2. F15ex - replaces both Su34 and Su30 and Su35 ......
    3. F15ex is needed to fill the time when the United States creates something to replace F22 ... and F22 will slowly grow old.


    And so, for your information, the F15ex can carry 22 winged bombs, issue each control center with the help of AFAR.
    1. -5
      19 March 2023 21: 25
      I can just imagine such an F-15ex taking off with 22 bombs. Well, fly, and here the targets are suddenly immeasurable. 50 or even more. He launched all the bombs and doesn’t really know which target is more important. Afar clicks with his, redirects. And most importantly, there is not a single Buk among the targets. Well, you have to be as lucky as you can.
      1. +2
        20 March 2023 10: 54
        You better imagine that the accuracy is such that their weight is 100 kg each ..... and imagine how our VKS lacks such ammunition and that at the moment we can hardly give a bomb (or rocket) on the ground. This is not about 22 missiles (and this is an opportunity to find a target when mapping the area, identify it and immediately issue the control center to the ammunition). That dramatically increases the efficiency of the aircraft.
  19. 0
    19 March 2023 20: 42
    Quote: spirit
    Those who scold f35 for breakdowns when there are already hundreds of them, you just need to read the history of aviation, where this was all the time with the most legendary cars hi


    I somehow had a chance to flip through the old materials of the f / a-18 hearings, where congressmen practiced artistic throwing guano at this car, and one suggested renaming it from "Hornet" to "Drone".
    1. 0
      19 March 2023 21: 47
      deddem
      And you compare the characteristics of the early F-18s and modern F-35s. And look at the lists of malfunctions of both machines ... In terms of the number of claims, only Starfighter can be compared with the F-35
  20. -1
    19 March 2023 21: 44
    As usual, the author took a bad translation and added his own confused thoughts. In fact:
    1. F-15 is a very good aircraft. Its shock variant in all characteristics, except for the notorious invisibility, surpasses the F-35
    2. The F-35 turned out to be the purest business project designed to siphon money from the "allies" of the United States. He could not replace the 4th generation fighters, while it turned out to be much more expensive
    3. Yes, the F-35 was developed at a time when the USSR collapsed, the United States and NATO seemed to have no opponents left, and a simple and cheap "peacetime" aircraft was needed. A sort of stealth to control the colonies. But, firstly, the times of confrontation have returned (and China has also been added), and the capabilities of the F-35 have become insufficient
    4. In terms of development cost, the F-35 approached the F-22, and the cost of single vehicles is not much less
    5. About hypersound - nonsense, Russia has only 2 types of hypersound - Dagger and Vanguard - both of them - weapons are not mass, certainly not for front-line bombers. By the way, Su-27/30/34/35 cannot carry hypersound. Maybe only when the aviation version of the Zircon appears. Americans now have no hypersound at all
    6. Nevertheless, the tasks of air defense and strikes against ground targets must be solved. And it turned out that the F-35 cannot be a fighter, but as a bomber it is bad. F-22 is bad as a bomber, but for fighter missions it is too expensive, and there are too few of them
    7. Su-57 is still too small, they will be brought to mind for a long time.
    8. That is why, it is most expedient for the two main antagonists to continue to improve and produce the 4th generation. But, if the modernization potential of the F-16, F-18 and MiG-29 is almost exhausted, then the F-15 and the Su-27 family still have a lot of room for development. Therefore, they will be the best aircraft of the two superpowers (and the 27th family of the Chinese spill)
    9. F-22 and F-35 do not have direct ancestors, therefore the costs of their development are very high. The Su-57 is a direct descendant of the Su-27, compatible with its ancestors in many nodes, so there is every chance that it will soon enter service and be exported. Possibly a simplified version.
    The author once again deuce. Learn the materiel ... colleague
    1. +1
      20 March 2023 10: 14
      Quote: futurohunter
      But, if the modernization potential of the F-16, F-18 and MiG-29 is almost exhausted, then the F-15 and the Su-27 family still have a lot of room for development.

      I would like to hear the rationale for your statement about exhaustion and possibilities.
  21. +3
    19 March 2023 22: 29
    Why is the SU-35S better than the F-15EX?! Leave this nonsense of the Ministry of Defense already, it could have been overwritten a year and a half ago, but now it should be somehow ashamed.
    The SU-35S doesn’t even have an AFAR radar, and what kind of EW and RER systems does it have compared to Fkoy ??
    Just don’t talk about super-maneuverability, it’s clear that food is of no use to it. Well, except that an air show is good for parades.
  22. 0
    20 March 2023 00: 57
    I didn’t understand - what other American air-launched hypersonic weapon did the author mention?

    They don't have anything. At least for now.
    They are supposedly planning to bring the AGM-183A ARRW to mind in the near (!) Time.
    Estimated cost of $ 17 million per piece!
    But they are going to be placed on the B-52, B-1B and B-21, and not on the F-15.

    There is still HACM in the very near future, but they plan to equip the F-35 with it.
  23. 0
    20 March 2023 06: 15
    The F-35 is a bomber that hides bombs in its hatches. NATO hides the true purpose that the F-35s are not designed to defend but to attack
    F-35 Lightning II (F-35 "Lightning II") - a family of stealth multifunctional fighter-bombers of the fifth generation
    Our Su-57s are not bombers
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35
    In total, there were more than 3426 of them, of which Arestovich somehow admitted that 2000 aircraft could attack Russia at once. This is what he said, I personally heard
    The stealthy F-35 can enter contested airspace to engage enemy targets. To reduce the visibility of the aircraft, the F-35 ammunition is placed in the internal compartment, which limits the arsenal of weapons used. The aircraft can carry four AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles or two missiles and two GBU-31 JDAM bombs.
    https://lenta.ru/news/2022/09/23/jdam/
  24. -1
    20 March 2023 10: 04
    Once again, for the "enthusiasts". Realize, finally, that the F-35 is a colonial bomber! It was created at a time when the Warsaw Pact collapsed and the "Soviet threat" disappeared. NATO no longer had a serious adversary in the face of the USSR. And they needed inexpensive and versatile aircraft to maintain flying skills, and to drive the natives through the jungle. And the most that was supposed among the natives was outdated S-75 and S-125 air defense systems, and the invisibility of the F-35 was calculated on them. Air bombs were not supposed to be carried out at all - and what kind of aviation can the natives have. Well, yes, "digitization" also left its mark - the F-35 was supposed to be integrated into the "digital battlefield". Well, obviously, any new aircraft is a great business for aircraft manufacturers. The "allies" of the United States, from Israel to Japan, were bred for money. They invested in development, therefore they were simply forced to buy ready-made pepelats.
    But the reality turned out to be somewhat more severe, so it turned out to be a kind of flying misunderstanding, which suddenly turned out to be worse than its predecessors, which it should supplant.
    It is generally incorrect to compare it with the Su-57. Firstly, its development began much later than that of the F-35. And not from scratch. In essence, the Su-57 is an evolutionary machine, in which the best achievements of its predecessors, the Su-27 and MiG-29 families, were used. Moreover, they partially sacrificed some of the properties of the 5th generation, such as the notorious invisibility, but did not bring it to please its flight qualities and the ability to conduct maneuverable air combat. The problems of the Su-57 are rather that at the current level, without new engines and other units, it is rather a heavily redesigned Su-35. And that is why there is no particular need to change the Su-35S, which is already the best fighter in the world, to the Su-57.
    Similarly, from the side of the enemy. Alas, and ah, but the F-35 turned out to be an order of magnitude worse than the 4th generation aircraft. And the F-22 did not turn out to be a strike aircraft, and it turned out to be too expensive. But the workhorses F-16, F-15 and F-18, which have shown themselves well in local wars of the last 40 years, simply have no replacement. And their development potential is far from being exhausted.
    1. +1
      20 March 2023 21: 42
      Quote: futurohunter
      And that is why there is no particular need to change the Su-35S, which is already the best fighter in the world.

      Especially after an epic failure in one of the foreign tenders, where he solemnly leaked a test air battle to the French Rafal, putting an end to his export career.
      1. 0
        24 March 2023 16: 44
        Quote from shurshun
        Especially after an epic failure in one of the foreign tenders, where he solemnly leaked a test air battle to the French Rafal, putting an end to his export career.

        There were no test battles between the Su-35 and Rafal. No need to retell Internet fairy tales.
        1. 0
          April 28 2023 15: 48
          Quote: Comet
          Quote from shurshun
          Especially after an epic failure in one of the foreign tenders, where he solemnly leaked a test air battle to the French Rafal, putting an end to his export career.

          There were no test battles between the Su-35 and Rafal. No need to retell Internet fairy tales.

          For people like you, "ostriches" and Rafal do not exist.))
  25. -2
    20 March 2023 12: 53
    It's not just about hypersonic missiles, because of all the outskirts, the military budget is already bursting at the seams, and then people dump the dollar needle, you can't replace it with your shale gas. As long as China provided the goods, these candy wrappers could be made oneb-2 for $2 billion. But as soon as China began to grow its own middle class by increasing wages, launching a high redistribution of products, the situation changed. Well, it’s impossible for the Americans to drive back that we (the production section) into free raw materials, that the Chinese are free labor. Start living within your means. For a long time, American patriotic generals (thinking about the country and not about cutting budget funds) suggested throwing out all sorts of f-35s and replacing them with f-18s, in addition to the many times difference in the service hours, invisibility turned out to be not such a panacea. The work of air defense is more affected by the fatigue of operators and the reliability of equipment. Yes, stealth is important, but it's like we have a dagger with zircon, but we don't have lancets in our count of a thousand pieces a day.
  26. 0
    20 March 2023 13: 48
    Well, what's the problem. 15th do not enter into battle, he is only a carrier of hypersound (if he appears), like our moments (they were also not made into a maneuver).
  27. +1
    20 March 2023 14: 18
    Only, unlike the pieced Su-57 (it is still unknown how trusted and combat-ready), hundreds of "raw" F-35s have already been riveted and they have entered and continue to enter service with Russian "non-partners" ...
    And you should not reassure yourself with hatred moods that Russia will shoot down these "non-combat-ready" under-fighters in batches.
    The fighter is, of course, no. But how can an air defense breakthrough aircraft inflict considerable damage on ground targets ...
  28. 0
    20 March 2023 15: 39
    Another question is that today no aircraft in the world can compare with the MiG-31 in terms of speed and height.
    well, they just have a beautiful Blackbird, and one grandmother said that they are developing a replacement for the SR-72
  29. -1
    20 March 2023 17: 10
    For the F-15, the suspension of the analogue of our "Dagger" is an additional option, that's all. And they will not fight on the front end, but after the suppression of air defense, they will win back. You cannot consider a separate enemy aircraft without taking into account the strategy for using aviation. Currently, all takeoffs of our aviation are recorded, and this is without the use of aircraft radars. they forget about planes sharpened only for the use of electronic warfare equipment ..
  30. -1
    20 March 2023 17: 26
    The F-15EX is the best strike fighter in the world today.
  31. 0
    20 March 2023 21: 00
    Not exactly an appropriate comparison. Firstly, the F35 and 15 are aircraft of different classes and for different tasks.
    And secondly, the Su57 never received the engine promised X years ago, and is just another glider for the time being.
  32. 0
    22 March 2023 01: 24
    [quote = Boa constrictor KAA] [quote = Lech from Android.]
    we don’t twitch too much either ... and the old SU-27s are good at kerosene American UAVs.

    That's for sure! But, in fact, the Su-35 is a deep modern Su-27! The glider is practically the same, but the filling is different. There were never any questions about the integrated circuit of the airframe. He was not touched. But the stuffing changed depending on the tasks being solved.
    Therefore, when new tasks appeared, they made a machine for solving these problems - they got a new form and filled it with new content ... As a result, the Su-57 appeared, followed by the Su-75 on the way .. Dialectics! laughing[/ Quote]
    Su-75 on the way? ... well, well, I believe it is about the same as in 3000 Armat
  33. -1
    30 March 2023 12: 42
    The Su-57 is a good aircraft in terms of the volume of weapons compartments, not much inferior in terms of ammunition to the Su-35, but the stealth characteristics are then reduced. Due to the fact that the weapons bays occupied the entire middle part of the fuselage, the air intake channels are straight and the engine blades are clearly visible. Radar blockers will not solve the problem. The Su-75 aircraft is being developed, it looks much more like US stealth aircraft, has s-shaped air intake channels inside the fuselage, a small tail is hidden between the fins and the engine. The question is what is its drawback: that it has one main weapons compartment, while the S-57 has two of them? But if he can penetrate the zones covered by air defense and destroy this air defense, but there is no Su-57, then 2 missiles delivered to the target are better than 4 that did not fly. The fact that there is no Su-75 is not a drawback, no, you need to do it, if the plane were good.
    1. +1
      7 June 2023 21: 18
      And why did you decide that a) su75 will be released in hardware in general and b) more will be released than the pilot batch of 5-10 pieces? When they showed it (made of plastic or papier-mâché), they clearly said that the machine was intended for export. If there are 25-30 orders, then no one will definitely spend money on R&D. Especially now. We need at least 200 firm orders, and preferably not from impoverished Papua New Guinea
  34. 0
    April 28 2023 16: 16
    If the Su-57 does not have stealth parameters similar to American fighters of the 5th gene, then along with technologically more backward avionics and radar, this is a waste of money and time. Moreover, in a quantitative comparison, it can simply be said no.
  35. 0
    7 June 2023 21: 13
    Amers successfully tested the F15 with an anti-satellite missile on an external sling about 25-30 years ago. It is approximately equal in size to hypersonic, so no one invented the bicycle here.