Italy may become a competitor of Ukraine in the issue of obtaining German tanks Leopard 2

Italy may become a competitor of Ukraine in obtaining tanks German-made, in Rome they thought about updating the tank fleet. Since the production of armored vehicles will take a long time, the Italians intend to lease some of the tanks from their NATO allies.

The military conflict in Ukraine forced many countries to reconsider their attitude towards the army. In Italy, they thought about replacing the existing fleet of Ariete tanks, as well as the Dardo infantry fighting vehicles. In Rome, they believe that the existing armored vehicles are already outdated and need to be replaced. The Italian Ministry of Defense estimates the army's need for 250 tanks, of which 125 can be obtained by upgrading existing Ariete MBTs, and another 125 need to be purchased, but there are no funds for them.

We need an urgent modernization of the BTT fleet, the last time deliveries of new armored vehicles were carried out in the 1980s

- said in the military department of Italy.

Against this background, an offer was made to lease the missing 125 tanks, we are talking about the German MBT Leopard 2, best of all 2A7. This statement caused a quiet panic in Kyiv, which also expects to receive German tanks. Zelensky does not need competitors, he even agrees to the old Italian C1 Ariete tanks, developed back in the 80s on the basis of the German Leopard 2, and the Italian authorities refuse to supply tanks to Ukraine.

Italy classifies tanks as offensive arms, and the parliament of the republic did not approve the supply of such weapons to Ukraine. Rome still declares its intention to supply only defensive ones.

Comments

[ivan_nkl]

Italy may become a competitor of Ukraine in the issue of obtaining German tanks Leopard 2

line up, you sons of bitches!!

[Terenin]

Moved in the EU financial resources from social welfare in the direction of armament and maintenance of the army. The straps will have to be shaded, and the US European tobaccos will also have to get used to sweat in the summer and freeze in the winter.

[Orange Bigg]

For Leopards 2A4, a lot of interesting things are in store.

[Vyacheslav Borichevsky_2]

Yes, a lot of falsehood! And actually reality!. Especially for you in rose-colored glasses!. What do you think we have all ATGM cornets ?, The reality is that there are a small number of them at the front !. Mostly bassoons!!!!.with competitions and mestizos!. Missiles from warehouses, launched every other time, some fall apart right in flight!. And then the rockets of old modifications, there are few newer ones !. Why do you think tanks and ukrov vehicles are in old contacts 1?. The answer is simple enough to protect them, since the bulk of our Soviet-era anti-tank missiles and most of the missiles are monoblock !. few tandems! And there is nothing to say about RPG! Rays hit only with blocks, VR tandems just fall apart when they hit without damaging the equipment! this is the reality of war!. Where are those hermes? where are the tigers with cornets?. Where is this super duper weapon from pictures, exhibitions in units. copy!. You have a fairy tale here, but at the forefront there is another reality. The weapons are mostly old! In fact, the anti-tank missile system is used as a mobile precision weapon, that is, they shoot with cumulus so where landmines are needed, according to the technique if the armor is weak and without contact !. Here are the real realities of war!.

[Alien From]

So be it, Uncle Sam will come for pasta again

[FoBoss_VM]

Well, what nonsense, why write this? NATO is at war with Russia, which Italy? Everything goes to the front

[Dart2027]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

NATO is at war with Russia

Not really. The United States is at war with Russia, and the same Germans do not need it at all. Yes, they follow orders, but they try to do it as badly as possible.

[Terenin]

Quote: Dart2027

The Germans don't need it at all. Yes, they follow orders, but they try to do it as badly as possible.

Do not forget, then, to beat the Germans a little easier than, for example, the Poles.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Terenin

Do not forget, then, to beat the Germans a little easier

I doubt very much that they will be able to drag them into the war. This is really a question about the Poles.

[decimalegio]

Russia is at war with NATO?? this news escaped me, where exactly is this happening??

[tralflot1832]

Why do the Italians need tanks at all? Enough of the fleet and aviation.

[ivan_nkl]

Enough fleet and aviation

then you can limit yourself to spaghetti ...

[decimalegio]

Some carbs will definitely do you good. Too much soup causes flatulence.

[dmi.pris1]

Why Italy for the NATO?

[Prisoner]

Why do they need aviation, navy? Enough wine, pasta and tomatoes. Yes, more cheese.

[decimalegio]

How can you argue with a person who eats cabbage and drinks moonshine while playing the balalaika. I'd say I've run out of clichés.

[Terenin]

Quote: tralflot1832

Why do Italians need tanks at all?

Xe well, not to fight ... Purely for the accumulation of scarce goods in awesome demand. Profit in the future.

[blackGRAIL]

Then why NATO tanks. In the old days, the vassal had to put up a certain number of soldiers at the request of the overlord, determined by his economic potential (number of households), the old is not always bad. Therefore, the questions "why" that other country needs tanks, aircraft, etc. in NATO. sound strange.

[Novichek]

. This statement caused a quiet panic in Kyiv, which also expects

. Yes? Who specifically of the persons in the square said what? As we like, all the same, for any reason to proclaim "panic in Kyiv." Again, an empty article. The fact that the sins would like to modernize their aircraft is understandable to the goat, but only they don’t have the money for it (as stated in the article) and since there’s nothing to pay with, then your gentlemen’s Wishlist doesn’t sway anyone, and there’s no reason for anyone panics are not

[RVAPatriot]

Since when did Italians become Greeks??? did i miss something??? So, I fell asleep, woke up, and then Greece conquered Italy

[ivan_nkl]

Since when did Italians become Greeks???

so he's a Bulgarian... - What's the difference...

[Amateur]

VO admins have obviously begun to prepare for April 1st. On other days, this "bullshit" "does not roll"

[Novichek]

Sunday is today, on weekends there is "calm" in the news regularly and any spam, you need to fill the feed with something)

[Terenin]

Quote: Novichek)

Sunday is today, on weekends there is "calm" in the news regularly and any spam, you need to fill the feed with something)

For these purposes, a number of sites have a Sunday column like "you can flood." To let off steam

[svp67]

of which 125 can be obtained by upgrading existing Ariete MBTs

This "Taran-Baran" was produced at factories in Italy, at the same facilities where the licensed "Leo-1" was previously produced. The Italians would be very happy to start producing Leo-2s, but there were "graters" about the impossibility of selling these tanks, produced in their own countries. The Germans did not need a competitor on the world market. Therefore, using many technical solutions of "Leo-2", this "Baran-Baran" was designed.
And now let's see how they will solve the issue of modernization, the option proposed by the British is quite possible. That is, the installation of a turret from the Leo-2A7 on the base chassis of the Tarana-Baran

[donavi49]

Outright panic? Already agree to sign the surrender probably.

The news is based on an interview with General Pietro Serino (now Chief of Staff of the Italian Army), who said he needed to double the number of MBTs in the line. They focus their capabilities on the modernization of Arieta, but this is not enough. It is necessary to consider the purchase or lease of MBTs from allies, for example Leo2A7. At the same time, he also pointed out that Italy needs to participate more actively in the MGCS program (new European MBT), but for this it is necessary to complete the development of requirements for future platforms. And all his interviews would be more in the key, but there is no money, they still do not finalize the requirements, documents, etc.

In any case, 125 Leo2A7 - giving birth now will not work. This is the medium term. And yes, Leo2A7 in any case does not go to the front, because the ban.

[Negro]

Quote: donavi49

In any case, 125 Leo2A7 - giving birth now will not work. This is a medium term

Judging by the mention of the eurotank, the Italians do not burn at all. And they can be understood.

[Adrian28]

The 132nd Armored Division "Ariete" (Italian "Ariete", "Aries") was formed on February 1, 1939 on the basis of the 2nd Armored Brigade (32nd Tank Regiment), becoming the first tank division of the Royal Army. On January 24, 1941, the division landed in Tripoli (Libya, North Africa) and from March 31 took part in the North African campaign. On October 23, 1942, the division had 129 Fiat M13/40 medium tanks. In October 1942, during the second battle of El Alamein, the division was almost completely destroyed during the retreat. The tankers of the division showed mass heroism at the same time. November 21, 1942 the division was disbanded. The remnants of the division, along with the remnants of the Littorio and Trieste tank divisions, were consolidated into a single battle group Ariete, which was destroyed six months later - in April 1943 in Tunisia. By the time of the surrender of the German-Italian troops, the Ariete division did not actually exist.
This is how the Italians honor the memory of their ancestors. The Germans should have called their Leopard "Viking" or "Nordland" respectively.

[Negro]

Quote: Adrian28

This is how the Italians honor the memory of their ancestors. The Germans should have called their Leopard "Viking" or "Nordland" respectively.

The Germans have many good names.

And the Italians jumped off the topic before the French, for example, not to mention the Finns, Norwegians, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenes or Austrians. So no one has any questions about WWII.

[TermNachTer]

And where will these A7s come from?))) Only 50 - 60 of them were produced. To get 250 tanks, you need to restart the plant, and in time it will take more than one year.

[Negro]

Quote: TermNachTER

only 50-60 of them were produced.

Just over 100 so far.

Quote: TermNachTER

To get 250 tanks

No one is talking about 250 Leo2, be careful.

[fetus]

Italian sabotage?

[Pavel57]

Ariete is essentially a Leopard 2 of early modifications. It is quite possible to bring up to 6-7.

[decimalegio]

However, I confirm that in Italy there is a discussion about the purchase of a certain number of leopards. Whether this goal will be realized is still unknown. Another question concerns the new tracked BMP. Competitors are Rheinmetall's Lynx and Bae System's CV90. The military would like the first. Some voices suggest that national politics and industry are leaning towards the latter.

[Negro]

Quote: Decimalegio

Competitors are Rheinmetall's Lynx and Bae System's CV90. The military would like the first. Some voices suggest that national politics and industry are leaning towards the latter.

Links is more promising (because it is heavier) and, accordingly, more expensive. But they say so far problems with operation. The Scandinavians are older and better trained. However, the question does not burn, it will clear up with time.
To purchase Leo, you need to fit into the regular structure of the army, now there is no place for them. It's not a matter of one year.

By the way, why the hell does he need Leopards at all? Ariente made 200 pieces, let him look at a distant warehouse.

[donavi49]

Links - the issue is in the number of releases.
On SV-90 - the queue too. But Hagglund said in March that from 62 vehicles in 2021, they are ramping up intensively with a close goal of 1 CB90 per day.

But in general, these are discussions, again, the article itself is based on an interview with General Serino. So far, there is no money, no pre-contracts, no permits. Well, there is no free technology either. You can only rent Leopards 2A4 if we talk about a period of about a year.

[Negro]

Quote: donavi49

On SV-90 - the queue too

The Italians usually let out at home.

Quote: donavi49

Well, there is no free technology either. You can only rent Leopards 2A4 if we talk about a period of about a year.

There, the approach itself looks delusional. He has the Ariente brigade in storage. If the second brigade is approved for him right tomorrow (and Italy is not Poland), then it’s enough to pick up the first leopards or M60 from storage, quite normal tanks, and sit on them until the eurotank appears. And so if you are not Ukraine and you are talking about the prospect of the 30th year, then you have as many options as you like. Leclerc, Panther, Leo7, Abram of the following versions, Korean, Eurotank - everything is very tasty. Yes, at least Merkava can be bought.

[decimalegio]

Assuming it will be CV90 Mk4. In these terms, the problem of choice arises. As for the CV 90 Mk 4, you have to decide whether it will be a completely redesigned and therefore new vehicle or a very advanced upgrade. In the first case, it will involve risks similar to Lynx. Whereas in the second, he would not be on par with Lynx in terms of evolution.
In the first case, it will be a significantly redesigned infantry fighting vehicle, allowing the introduction of new technologies with higher performance. If this is a fundamentally new car, it means that modifications of technological units have not been tested at all, and therefore the acquisition of the CV90 Mk4 is in any case fraught with risk. For example, ASCOD is also well established, but look what has become of Ajax!
However, following this line of reasoning, we have to admit that the Lynx is a completely new car that comes with more risks than the CV90 Mk4, but also with more room for development and potentially higher performance.

[decimalegio]

However, in the likely choice in favor of the Swedish car, there would be both logistical and auxiliary reasons. The need to have a run-in car, with a developed logistics chain and a transnational one behind it helps to avoid trouble. A car that has been in use for years in half a dozen countries (in various variants) and is still updated with better warranties today than a car only driven in Hungary. If the Lynx had also been adopted by the German army, perhaps the assessment would have been different, but at the moment I think that she is trusted more than Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Holland and Switzerland. In addition, we must take into account the willingness to cooperate with the national industry, which would be much wider with the Bae system.