Military Review

Sell ​​and not lose: possible supply of Su-35 for China

44
In the context of the recent Chinese airshow China Airshow 2012, there were reports of a possible new contract regarding the supply of Russian aircraft. Some media outlets, citing sources in the Ministry of Defense and organizations involved in arms export, said that in the coming years, China will receive a number of the latest Su-35 fighters. Earlier there were reports of similar intentions by the Chinese military, but there was no official confirmation or refutation. In addition, supplies aviation Technology in China can have unpleasant consequences of an economic and political nature.



Last year, official Beijing has already offered Russia a deal concerning the supply of Su-35 fighters. However, then Russian officials responded with a sharp refusal. The fact is that the Chinese wanted to buy only four aircraft. According to Deputy Director General of Rosoboronexport V. Komardin, such a contract was not beneficial for our country. In addition, in view of the small number of fighters purchased, China was immediately suspected of unkind intentions. It is quite obvious that four aircraft will not be enough to equip even one squadron. At the same time, they are enough for careful examination and subsequent copying. Most likely, the possibility of copying was the main reason for the refusal of delivery.

In the spring of the current 2012, a number of media reported on talks about the Su-35. The number in the 45-50 units was then called. In the light of the orders of the Russian Air Force, this number of fighters no longer looks like an attempt by the Chinese to acquire a sample for copying. Now, as reported by the press, the estimated number of aircraft purchased is reduced to 24-x. According to the Vedomosti newspaper, the next negotiations on possible supplies will begin in the near future, and the signing of the contract will take place in the coming years. At the same time, Rosoboronexport and Sukhoi did not comment on this data. Therefore, information obtained by Vedomosti from a certain source in the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation may look dubious

Nevertheless, there is still some likelihood of signing a contract. In favor of the version of future negotiations, for example, a quick visit to China of Russian Defense Minister S. Shoigu is given. At the same time, it was previously reported that one of the goals of the negotiations would be to resolve issues relating to the unlicensed production of equipment copied from Russian developments. The most famous case of this is the "creation" of the Shenyang J-11 fighter. Recall that in the mid-nineties, China acquired a license to manufacture Su-27SK aircraft. The contract included the delivery of sets of parts and assemblies based on the assembly of 200 fighters. Before 2003, 95 aircraft were manufactured jointly, after which China refused to continue further cooperation, citing insufficient Su-27SK characteristics. Nevertheless, the production of fighters under the Chinese J-11 index not only did not stop, but continued at a higher rate. As for the agreement on licensed production, it was not extended. Obviously, the first 95 aircraft were needed only to study and establish the production of "own" fighters.

And yet the Chinese could not completely repeat the design of the Russian fighter. They still have to buy turbojet engines of the AL-31 family. Among other things, these engines are one of the reasons for the protests: the Russian side reliably knows the number of engines sent to China, from which it is possible to draw certain conclusions about the production of J-11 aircraft. Judging by the past failures in the supply of new ready-made equipment, the Russian military, designers and officials are not too happy with the volume of construction of the former licensed aircraft. At the end of November, negotiations should begin between the Russian and Chinese commissions, the purpose of which is to resolve the issue of unlicensed production of aircraft. It is also possible that Russian officials will discuss with their Chinese colleagues the possibility of supplying the Su-35, but this has not yet been officially confirmed.

Thus, the leadership of the Russian defense industry now faces a difficult choice: either to sell new modern cars and make a profit, or not to get it, but also not to “earn” problems in the form of another contract break with the subsequent appearance of a foreign copy of their aircraft. At the same time, it would be most profitable for the country to simultaneously sell aircraft and at the same time in some way prevent them from being copied or reduce the risks associated with the latter. For example, the Russian side may insist on buying several dozen planes. Of course, the Chinese aircraft manufacturers will certainly try to reverse-engineer the purchased vehicles, however, if Beijing buys the 50-60 fighters, its aircraft industry will not receive anything other than knowledge of current aviation trends. Copying may simply be meaningless: Russia will transfer all the ordered aircraft before China has time to establish its own production. Recalling the troubles with the Su-27SK, it is worth noting the need to refuse to grant a license for the assembly. It is quite obvious that J-11 owes its appearance, first of all, to the documentation transferred to the Chinese. Without it, the "development" of this aircraft would be significantly delayed.

The second version of the development of events around a hypothetical contract, which implies both economic and military-technical benefits, is to create or offer a simplified version of the Su-35. It can, and even should, have less high characteristics in comparison with the Su-35С manufactured for the Russian Air Force. The essence of this approach lies in the fact that it will take several years for China to copy the machine without the appropriate documentation. During this time, the Russian Air Force will have time to acquire full-fledged Su-35С in the required quantity. As a result, the PLA’s military aviation will first receive a small number of vehicles lagging behind its competitors in small quantities, and further large-scale construction of their copies will be at least not very useful. When promoting such a variant of supply to Russian officials, it is worthwhile to stress the tangible decline in the cost of finished aircraft. During the spring discussion of a possible contract with China, the cost of one Su-35 was fully mentioned in full configuration at the level of 80-85 million US dollars. Most likely, a reasonable re-equipment can significantly reduce this amount and make a simplified aircraft more profitable for foreign customers. In addition, such a fighter may be of interest to third world countries that do not have money for high-grade 4 ++ generation aircraft, but there is a great desire to upgrade their fleet of air forces to the current state.

Russian officials also have a third way of negotiating, which, however, does not necessarily lead to the desired result. The contract for the supply of 24 or 50 Su-35 fighters may be a separate item, providing for heavy fines for copying the aircraft without permission. With a good set of circumstances, such a condition of the contract will be able to stop potential “pirates” At the same time, China can not be caught in the burning desire to respect the copyrights of others and other similar things of a paper nature. As we saw several years ago in the case of J-11, it is easier for Beijing not to play "fair game", but to find good lawyers who can prove the innocence of Russian aircraft designers to the "Chinese" design. Therefore, at present, according to official Chinese data, the Shenyang J-11B fighter is being built, which allegedly has characteristics no worse than the Russian Su-35.

Comparison with this particular Russian aircraft, as well as the incomprehensible state of the J-11B project, leads to certain thoughts. It seems that Shenyang has already designed a slightly improved glider based on the Russian Su-27SK, but still cannot fill it with modern equipment. For this, it seems, China is so aggressively asking to sell at least four Su-35 to it. If this is true and the Su-35 is planned to be made one of the prototypes of the new J-11B, then the mass production of the next Chinese "own-developed" fighter can begin within a couple of years after the transfer of the first Russian aircraft.

In general, Russian designers, aircraft manufacturers and the military have well-founded reasons to fear the transfer of new combat equipment to China. This country has repeatedly shown their skills in copying someone else's equipment. So, the possible negotiations on the supply of Russian Su-35 fighters can end with a simple and banal result: because of the disagreement of the Chinese side to make any concessions, Russia can completely stop all consultations and refuse to sell. Of course, in this case, our country will not receive a certain amount of money, but at the very least, it will temporarily secure itself against a possible enemy with good aviation technology. Finally, Russia will still have an instrument of influence in the form of contracts for the supply of aircraft engines. China has not yet achieved such success in this area as our country, therefore, continues to remain dependent on Russian components.


On the materials of the sites:
http://lenta.ru/
http://expert.ru/
http://rus.ruvr.ru/
http://airwar.ru/
http://china-defense.blogspot.ru/
Author:
44 comments
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  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 22 November 2012 08: 42
    +20
    At the same time, it would be most profitable for the country to simultaneously sell aircraft and at the same time in some way prevent them from being copied or reduce the risks associated with the latter.

    The most profitable for the country would be the supply of these fighters with their own Air Force. Point.
    The essence of this approach lies in the fact that it will take several years for China to copy the machine without the appropriate documentation. During this time, the Russian Air Force will have time to acquire full-fledged Su-35С in the required quantity.

    For a few years of the Russian Federation can acquire the necessary number of Su-35С? !!! fool Author, take off rose-colored glasses. The most optimistic plans to equip the Russian Air Force Su-35 - 90 machines to 2020 G - firstly, overly optimistic, and secondly - about three times inferior to the required number of these aircraft in the Russian Air Force
    Most likely, a reasonable re-equipment can significantly reduce this amount and make a simplified aircraft more profitable for foreign customers. In addition, such a fighter may be of interest to third world countries that do not have money for high-grade 4 ++ generation aircraft,

    And leave your own air force with a bare ass. Bravo!
    It seems that Shenyang has already designed a slightly improved glider based on the Russian Su-27SK, but still cannot fill it with modern equipment. For this, it seems, China is so aggressively asking to sell him at least four Su-35

    Well, finally - the words are not a boy, but a husband!
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 22 November 2012 09: 59
      +8
      You expressed my thoughts. First you need to arm your own air force. Further, if the Chinese want, conclude a contract with them for the supply of simplified versions of the aircraft. No build licenses. Only finished cars. Build our fighter service point there. And the last point - do not want as you want. They got it. Point.
      1. vyatom
        vyatom 22 November 2012 13: 44
        +4
        In the ass of these shny narrow-eyed creatures. It’s completely overgrown.
        Those who live in the Far East are very respected by serious Japanese people.
        The Koreans are friendly to us. Well, the Chinese are garbage, they can’t do anything themselves. As experience shows, nothing can be shared with them. Khrushchev the moron handed over the atomic bomb - get Damansky. Do not sell them anything. And shit not to buy them.
        1. Beck
          Beck 22 November 2012 15: 20
          0
          As an option. It is necessary to incite the Japanese to them. Give the Japanese some freedom with respect to China. The Japanese know how to fight with the Chinese. And the Chinese remember what Japanese is - banzai. In WW2, entire Chinese divisions from Japanese regiments fled in different directions.
    2. 11 black
      11 black 22 November 2012 11: 10
      +2
      “It seems that the Shenyang company has already designed a slightly improved airframe based on the Russian Su-27SK, but still cannot fill it with modern equipment. It seems that for this, China is so insistently asking to sell it at least four Su-35 "

      most likely j31 is this glider - we know that from the moment of the first take-off, it takes several more years to equip the aircraft with the latest on-board electronics (this is now happening with our t 50) and j31 took off in 1 once a month ago (if the truth took off) so 90 % on-board electronics needed for him.
      and since they plan to export it, the answer NO will be the most reasonable!
      1. VAF
        VAF 22 November 2012 13: 36
        +2
        Quote: 11 black
        and j31 took off 1 time a month ago (if the truth took off)


        It just took off the day before yesterday, +! soldier

        And according to the glider ... on the Su-35C, on the contrary, they returned back .. almost to the version of the Su-27. with slight changes bully (like there is no brake flap, well, they removed the PGO. but the weight decreased by almost 1.5 tons) fellow
    3. VAF
      VAF 22 November 2012 12: 18
      +3
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      The most profitable for the country would be the supply of these fighters with their own Air Force. Point.


      Andrew welcome, +! I practically agree with all your thoughts and arguments and very much disagree with the author (I will not dwell on those points that you have already focused on) +! wink

      1. Firstly, it is not clear which of the Su-35 aircraft did the author mean? request
      Su-35 / Su-35BM / Su-35S ????? wink

      2. Secondly, in the photo of the Su-35BM, on which there is no Irbis, only the weight and size model was intended for this aircraft for other stages of testing! wink

      3. The author's section "The second scenario ... and further in the text" is generally ... incomprehensible to put it mildly? request What does it mean ... a general phrase ..... "less high performance ?????" .. then why would the Chinese need it and what is the author going to ... "saw off" from the plane? lol

      4. What do you mean .. the Chinese have designed an improved glider than the Su-27SK ???? wassat

      5. Well, according to the third option, the author: no one else in history has been able to make any complaints to the Chinas!
      The J-11B fighter has long been created and is commercially available, and in total it will be far away from the Su-35S bully



      1. At the beginning of 2011, one batch of these fighters was received by the 37th Air Force Division (14 units).
      2. At the end of 2011, the first batch of J-11B / BS naval fighters entered service with the 8th Marine Aviation Division of the PLA Navy. (16 pieces).

      The production pace is adjusted to 30 aircraft a year, maybe more, but there are problems with the production and supply of components and engines.

      Andrey, I don’t agree wink with your conclusion at the end, about filling with modern equipment +! drinks
      1. postman
        postman 22 November 2012 12: 43
        +2
        Quote: vaf
        2. Secondly, on the photo Su-35BM, on which there is no Irbis, but only the weight and size model was intended for this aircraft for other stages of testing!

        Sergey, and if they get even 35BM, do you think they will not be able to integrate their own AFAR developed for the J-10B?

        In principle, China (probably the only one of its kind) who achieved excellence in copying Soviet / Russian technologies (Lockheed Tech. Department is resting).
        Element bases are similar in our country (in the PRC it all started with the USSR), there is equipment, well, etc.
        1. VAF
          VAF 22 November 2012 12: 51
          +1
          Quote: Postman
          and if they get even 35BM, do you think they will not be able to integrate their own AFAR developed for the J-10B?


          So I also speak about it +! A .. pardon hi ... did not indicate specifically in the continuation in paragraph 4. of his comment ... I thought the text would be clear! wink

          The fact of the matter is that it is easy or "take" from the North Group. they will sell anything and anyone! bully
          1. postman
            postman 22 November 2012 17: 46
            +1
            Quote: vaf
            I thought the text will be clear!

            announce the whole list ...
            And then you are like AP Chekhov: "Brevity is the sister of talent" ......

            I was interested in a purely technical question: CAN bus is not there? = No?
            A simulator adapter is not needed?
            (About how I set Q7 = LED Standtlicht, Tagfahrlicht und Blinker, screams without it and doesn’t want to go, puncture, clamp, everything, you want LED, you want glow)
            it's all the old fashioned way.
            So even the "braids" won't have to be changed: Plug and that's it?
            Right?
            Cunning ... Chinese eyes
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 22 November 2012 12: 47
        +3
        Dear Sergey, welcome!
        Quote: vaf
        Andrew, well, I do not agree wink with your conclusion at the end, about filling with modern equipment +! drinks

        So I never claimed the role of an expert in matters of the Air Force. I can be wrong. feel I am still a "couch admiral" and often have to think out what I could not learn / recognize since. no practice. And what was written about the content looked logical. So - thanks for the clarification! drinks
        1. VAF
          VAF 22 November 2012 13: 02
          +3
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          So - thanks for the clarification!


          Not at all, +! drinks and I just expressed my "thought and opinion" that I do not agree ..... no more wink
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 22 November 2012 13: 48
            +2
            Quote: vaf
            Not at all, +! drinks and I just expressed my "thoughts and opinions" that I do not agree ..... no more wink

            laughing Well, how, how :))))
            Dear Sergey, you wrote
            Quote: vaf
            4. What do you mean .. the Chinese have designed an improved glider than the Su-27SK ????

            What made me have a quick look, but what about the Chinese actually outraged the Su-27 glider? it turned out - practically nothing, and the J11 and J11В are practically the original glider, only with the addition of composites in some places, i.e. some of the airframe materials are replaced by others and that's all.
            Well, as far as I know, the Su-35C glider was fairly rearranged relative to the Su-27. But then it turns out that the Su-35 avionics can hardly be so easily inserted into the J11 glider?
            But maybe the Chinese still have some reworked J11 glider in the storeroom? Assume even that there is,
            I believe that our aircraft designers, designing the Su-35S glider, knew what they were doing - i.e. they had an idea what engines, radars and other "filling" they would install on the Su-35S. Those. the rearrangement of the airframe probably still went "from tasks" - you need to install this and that, with such and such performance characteristics and so that everything would work like clockwork.
            And the Chinese, even if they undertook to rearrange something in the quiet of the design bureau - how would they know the weight and size and other performance characteristics of the "filling" of the Su-35S? Those. if they invented any changes in the glider for themselves, then these changes could not correspond to the filling of the Su-35S. And, therefore, even if the Chinese have some kind of modernized glider, so now it will again have to be adjusted to fit the Su-35S
            Why then try to add Su-35С avionics to the Chinese glider from Su-27 if you can just copy the Su-35С glider? This is much easier ...
            In general, after your phrase, the author’s thought about filling a Chinese airframe with Russian stuffing, which seemed logical to me, ceased to seem so hi
            1. VAF
              VAF 22 November 2012 14: 51
              +1
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              phrases the author’s thought about filling the Chinese glider with Russian filling, which seemed logical to me, ceased to seem such


              Very happy +! Therefore, I wrote that I disagree with the author in many ways.
              About .. pretty much re-yes ... it was on the Su-35 and Su-35BM, well, the Su-37, but then they returned more back ... that is. to the source. the truth is there is a change. I wrote about this.
              About the engines not very ... during the tests they shoved everything. what was only possible and possible. but the plans were of course. that there will be 117С ... but then, so to speak ... the origins of "real" motors were not yet .... after all, it was not for nothing that they were released (of all modifications) as many as 24 pieces, and only now they put "relatives" on their relatives Su-35S "motors! wink

              about recomposing ourselves, i.e. Why reinvent the wheel? It is truth too. when they know "ways to solve the problem wassat"in a tried and tested way repeatedly and everywhere, but they also have their own wind tunnels and ... they are still going to install their own motors, which do not reach ours, but to climb into the ESDU and centering, drive the plane to negative instability, like amers Does the F-117 have a computer flying everywhere? No, they won't be like that ... because it's expensive, yes, and there is no such experience in this matter! Therefore, most likely they will make some aerodynamic line-up changes (that would not strongly "drive" the centering, because MAR is not the same .. rubber and has its limits lol and balancing)!
              Well, somewhere like that, if simply. Quickly and understandably ... without any technical subtleties +! drinks
  2. Forget
    Forget 22 November 2012 09: 00
    +2
    It’s time for the Chinese to think with their own head, and not to look for someone to write off ....
    1. not good
      not good 23 November 2012 11: 09
      +1
      God save us from such a thinking neighbor
      1. Dikremnij
        Dikremnij 25 November 2012 01: 30
        0
        That Thank God that the Chinese only know how to do what to copy (this is me about their aircraft industry). Since China has great difficulties in creating its own combat aircraft, and naturally, according to a scheme that has been worked out over the years, they want to buy, disassemble and copy a good machine, it is necessary to create an export version of this machine, which in its characteristics will be worse than usual. After that, make the Chinese conditions for the purchase of at least a hundred of such (export) aircraft, and don’t try the received money, but spend it on the purchase of the Su-35 for the Russian Air Force and on financing new developments in the field of military aviation.
        100 vehicles of this class are not so many to start active military operations by China against the Russian Federation, and the time that the Chinese spend on studying and copying the machine is enough to adopt new machines for the Russian Air Force, and it can make it possible to see the light of new developments.
        1. Beck
          Beck 25 November 2012 11: 36
          +1
          Quote: Dikremnij
          Since China has great difficulties in creating its own combat aircraft, and naturally, according to a scheme that has been worked out over the years, they want to buy, disassemble and copy a good machine, it is necessary to create an export version of this machine, which in its characteristics will be worse than usual. After that, make the Chinese conditions for the purchase of at least a hundred of such (export) aircraft, and don’t try the received money, but spend it on the purchase of the Su-35 for the Russian Air Force and on financing new developments in the field of military aviation.


          Yeah. Well done. It’s quite an option. Only it will be necessary to try a lot. The Chinese prokhindey is still one.
  3. Skiff
    Skiff 22 November 2012 09: 28
    +4
    Well, I’m thinking of selling in a castrated form, gliders, metals, avionics and electronics such as convincing that this is a perfect plane, but for yourself, do everything as you need wisely, since they are so tricky. hi
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 22 November 2012 09: 50
      +12
      In principle, I already wrote about this, but not a sin and repeat
      It is necessary to sell the Chinese not Su-35С, but the fact that they are truly archival and important. Such, without which their armed forces are none and not forces at all, and so is one name. For example:
      1) Dry Superjet 100
      2) Full form kit from Yudashkin
      3) French "Mistral" (resell 2 pieces, which are made in France, passing off as the latest development - a multimedia aircraft carrier)
      4) Italian Chentauro (zabubeniv on him trunks from the Coalition of NE and convincing the Chinese that it is - Armata)
      And something similar
      And let them copy, yes ...
      1. Dikremnij
        Dikremnij 25 November 2012 01: 34
        0
        The Chinese are cunning, I do not argue, but not so stupid, otherwise China would not have become a superpower in a relatively short period of time (China's development plan, according to which the country now lives, was developed in the 80s).
    2. VAF
      VAF 22 November 2012 12: 55
      +1
      Quote: Skiff
      Well, I’m thinking of selling in a castrated form, glider, metals,


      And you think it ..... will fly ??? lol +! recourse

      Quote: Skiff
      avionics and electronics


      This is not a problem at all, we have a lot of ... "any foreign on the Su-35S" costs bully

      Quote: Skiff
      type to convince that this is the perfect plane


      Times, the Chinese are suckers and they’ll come down .. a long time ago .. ended wassat
      1. Skiff
        Skiff 22 November 2012 13: 48
        0
        But in general, why are Su-35s since they are so smart? There they are our PAKFA and F-22 designated as the 4th generation aircraft, let them do it themselves, since the brains whip over the edge ...
        1. patsantre
          patsantre 22 November 2012 14: 55
          +1
          In fact, they have their own classification, they have both the J-20 and J-31 4th generation, and the Su-27 and J-11 3rd generation.
        2. VAF
          VAF 22 November 2012 15: 02
          0
          Quote: Skiff
          But in general, why are Su-35s since they are so smart?


          The locator and some avionics systems, some suspensions (comfortable) in the configuration, the engine (all systems and aggregates of the engine mount).

          And about the 4th generation, they have a different gradation system for them 4th .. it's like we have 5th +! wink
    3. postman
      postman 22 November 2012 17: 51
      +1
      Quote: Skiff
      sell in castrated form, glider, metals, avionics and electronics

      Do they need it?
      You will visit China (they already have more ICE than in Germany). Or in Bremenhaffen (shipment of container ships to China), only the latest equipment and accessories
  4. Beck
    Beck 22 November 2012 09: 37
    +12
    In pursuit of momentary profit, the Kremlin is arming and firing the military aircraft industry of its closest strategic rival. And in ten years, an opponent can become an adversary. What to do then? And just bite your elbows.
    1. avdkrd
      avdkrd 22 November 2012 23: 43
      -1
      Yes, no one expected that in 41 Luftwaffe pilots trained in the USSR and German tankers would want to come to visit, so to speak, to honor with their presence a school where they were taught to fly and fight ....
  5. omsbon
    omsbon 22 November 2012 10: 55
    +4
    The shitty image of "copiers" is firmly stuck to China and they are not going to get rid of it. China cannot be trusted ! Cheat!
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 23 November 2012 15: 25
      +1
      omsbon,
      A billion have arrived, not worth arming a potential adversary.
      Do not sell.
  6. Bob
    Bob 22 November 2012 11: 01
    +2
    The sale of equipment to China is in fact a transfer of its advanced technologies to them. At least take dual-use space technology, we helped China build 2 cosmodromes and now China is a space power, we spent money and no one says thank you today. Taking the Varyag aircraft carrier is the property of the entire USSR, its technological power; today it is with the Chinese, who do not hide the fact that by 2020 they will have built 7 aircraft carriers. Again, no one said thank you.
    And it's certainly not about "thank you". China was and remains an important strategic adversary for Russia, with which Russia, unlike the UWB, borders on a long-term territory. And the mood of those who lived and live on the Russian-Chinese border cannot be called pacified, on the contrary, there is a powerful expansion of the Chinese labor force with a simultaneous demonstration of China's military capabilities at the border. Calculate what kind of military grouping of forces China and Russia have on the border, the potential of the Chinese is enormous, and tomorrow this potential will acquire new strength due to technology, which the Russian army does not have. The Russian-Chinese border is controlled by one brigade, is that enough ?! And if it is enough, then why ?! For the solution of what combat missions ?! Or is a war with China in the opinion of our strategists unlikely ?! Due to the objectivity of the reasons (lack of resources and space for the development) of the war, I have a different opinion. A fragile peace can be quickly disrupted due to the aggravation of the aforementioned problems of China, and the incomprehensible trajectory of Russia's development (take the same diversion of huge forces and resources to the south - the Caucasus and Central Asia, to the west and now also the north - the Arctic). And the main dangerous direction (China) remained uncovered due to the fact that it is not a priority ?!
    Today, selling China advanced weapons, tomorrow we will have to sort things out with it, in which the main argument will be the strength of the armed forces.
  7. sapulid
    sapulid 22 November 2012 12: 05
    +2
    China is not the best deal agent. Technology transfer to him is dangerous. See what happened to the aircraft carrier? Now, are they building their own technologies with his S300 air defense systems? With tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, multiple launch rocket systems, small arms, guns, machine guns, space rockets, stations, etc. They stripped us like sticky. We invest in development, and they use it for free. That is, we subsidize the economy of a neighbor to the detriment of ourselves, which has territorial claims against us? Again kickbacks?
  8. toguns
    toguns 22 November 2012 12: 17
    +6
    fool how can you sell what you yourself do not have ??? you do not find it strange ???
    1. Mairos
      Mairos 22 November 2012 13: 20
      +2
      Because as a business approach to everything and business thinking. If it’s more profitable to drive abroad, they will drive - because first you have your own pocket, and then the country's security.
  9. I. Brovkin
    I. Brovkin 22 November 2012 12: 18
    +3
    Selling modern weapons to the Chinese is more expensive.
  10. Andy
    Andy 22 November 2012 13: 40
    +1
    to sell! definitely sell ... Homeland.
    Stalin is not on them, on fans of tweeters.

    and for some reason now I remembered an article about a young lieutenant colonel who was wounded. the country he defended did not find money to save his life. here are the claims to the plush and "navigator" for cormorants
  11. pinachet
    pinachet 22 November 2012 14: 07
    +1
    the Chinese, they will buy the cunning 20 pieces, and then steal the technology and make hundreds, and sell to the rest.
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 22 November 2012 14: 19
      +3
      and how you wanted not to fuck you will not live
      not young people of China, minimum purchase more technology
  12. Nik_One
    Nik_One 22 November 2012 14: 10
    +2
    Yes, there’s nothing to sell the new weapons to the Chinese at all. Not those are incomes for the country.
  13. Beck
    Beck 22 November 2012 15: 09
    +8
    I read it. Finally, sensible thoughts. And not the attacks of the cheers-patriots, who, like getting laid in the pocket of the USA, see nothing.

    They do not see that the main opponent of Russia in the 21st century is China, which is rapidly growing both economically and militarily. The West has long understood this and has long imposed a ban on the sale of weapons to China. The Kremlin was delighted - there are no competitors, and he himself armed and put China’s military industry on its feet. In about ten years, China will present such presentations, from the position of an armed rival, that it will be difficult to breathe.

    A year ago, China offered Europe money to overcome the crisis, but in exchange for lifting the embargo on sales. Europe is hard, but even in such difficult times it understands that it is impossible to arm China. And the ban has not been canceled. The Kremlin is all according to FIG. If only to take the profit. So, after all, half of this gain will go into the personal pocket of officials.

    You can talk with the West. With a Chinese armed to the teeth, you can hardly say anything.
  14. Swag
    Swag 22 November 2012 15: 19
    0
    It’s not up to us to sell or not to sell, those responsible for the sale should have a state approach to this problem. We must appreciate the work of designers and not be content with momentary benefits. Let's see what Shoygu will bring from China ...
  15. vikruss
    vikruss 22 November 2012 15: 39
    +2
    It's time to draw a conclusion ... "Of course, in this case, our country will not receive a certain amount of money, but at least for a while it will protect itself from a possible enemy with good aviation technology." ... Russia will receive less monetary gain from China, this is true but think at the same time Russia will retain full opportunity to sell this SU_35 Dryer on the world market itself. If China gets the technology and copies this car, it will flood the world market with a copy of the SU_35 itself. And Russia will get a shish, all the same. From this it becomes clear that it is not unprofitable for Russia to sell this aircraft. In any case, China will play its own way. And all the money comrades No. do not earn ...
  16. dm98
    dm98 22 November 2012 17: 01
    +1
    I don’t know how you gentlemen, but for myself I see a fairly simple solution to the situation.
    It is necessary to legally ban the export of advanced military developments.
    But the state seems to have no political will!
    And why not, let everyone speculate. But in my opinion the conclusion is obvious
    1. Nickname
      Nickname 22 November 2012 18: 23
      +4
      What will Then our thieves sensed loot and stood in a rack. You can say the 35th is already in China
      1. dm98
        dm98 22 November 2012 19: 10
        +1
        Well done correctly conceived)))).
        and if you think logically further .... then it turns out that thieves and those who write laws are one and the same person. Therefore, there is no political will
        1. avdkrd
          avdkrd 22 November 2012 23: 45
          +1
          and they’ll start telling us that we’re selling the last century, but we already have T50, etc.
  17. Pancho
    Pancho 22 November 2012 21: 01
    +1
    Our bureaucrats for money will give their mother to prostitutes.
  18. builder74
    builder74 22 November 2012 22: 27
    +1
    We want to sell the rope on which we will be hung! I recall the proud report of Comrade. Ketaytsev that now their BMP withstands hit by a 30mm gun and a machine gun (I do not remember the caliber), only our caliber!
  19. wow
    wow 22 November 2012 22: 28
    +1
    Do not sell a single car under any sauce!
    1. buga1979
      buga1979 23 November 2012 06: 14
      0
      according to your reasoning, the guys on top are either enemies or fools, if so then thrash about what they can copy, and nobody canceled the bookmarks
  20. Vako
    Vako 23 November 2012 10: 45
    +1
    I am for not granting a license IN ANY CASE! If they want to buy, then let them take it, but not less than ~ 40 cars, so that it is not a pity to "give away technology", because when buying, anyway, sooner or later they will copy!
  21. not good
    not good 23 November 2012 11: 17
    +1
    It is necessary to adopt a law by which it is forbidden to sell the latest technology until it is equipped with our aircraft, or at least prohibit deliveries abroad for a couple of years after being adopted.
    1. Dikremnij
      Dikremnij 25 November 2012 01: 45
      0
      Then will be
      1. These products on the market will most often be unclaimed since they may have competitors and may become outdated + to this, when in our countries in the post-Soviet era something was quickly adopted
      2 will adopt a purely symbolic 1 unit and say: "we have adopted it, and now let's sell"
      Conclusion: our person will get out of any situation if he has a desire or incentive.
  22. EW
    EW 30 November 2012 04: 29
    0
    Sell ​​to the enemy to help!
  23. kostello2004
    kostello2004 3 December 2012 12: 10
    0
    I’m not putting anything on the article -
    just guesses and assumptions, plus everything can fit in one paragraph
  24. Alikovo
    Alikovo 11 February 2013 22: 26
    0
    all copied weapons by China are bad, even the Kalash scattered they claim that they created their 5th generation fighter (the appearance was copied from the Americans and, in addition, our engines are also copies of Russian engines)