Military Review

The special operation breeds monsters: our MT-LBs with naval gun mounts

292
The special operation breeds monsters: our MT-LBs with naval gun mounts

As you know, almost any military conflict is the debut of handicraftsmen who repeat over and over again, bringing new models of field modifications of military equipment to the mountain in order to eliminate its shortcomings or expand combat capabilities. True, it doesn't always work out well. However, what is there cannot be taken away.


The special military operation in Ukraine was no exception in this regard: all sorts of “modernizations” appear both from the Ukrainian side and from our side, which we have repeatedly written about and even shown. But in this case, it seems that handicraft creativity was trampled down and trampled down already by factory manufacturers, who rather shocked the public with their work in the face of MT-LB with 2M-3 ship installations equipped with twin 25-mm automatic guns.

Originally from Vladivostok


Still, as has already been said, handicrafts are already familiar in a special military operation so much that each new product of its activity is perceived as something ordinary. Well, once again, a “visor” was welded onto the tank, dynamic protection units were hung over any measure, or a truck was surrounded in a circle with steel sheets. As they say, in an effort to protect yourself to the maximum, no impulses are alien. Yes, and those same long-suffering "motorcycle leagues" that MT-LB are regularly modified with various machine-gun and cannon mounts.


But the “motorcycle league” with the 2M-3 ship bandura, armed with two 25-mm cannons, at first even seemed like some kind of fake, or at least a one-time action from radical field designers. However, for the first time, the same point of view was also held in many military communities in social networks and forums. But no, the monster turned out to be still serial, albeit with the prefix "fine", and by no means handicraft.

As it turned out, the vehicles were equipped with ship installations in Vladivostok, and specifically for the 155th Separate Pacific Marine Brigade. fleet, whose units are currently participating in the battles in the Donbass.

2M-3 in naval reserves, including those of the Pacific Ocean, has accumulated since deep Soviet times, if not in excess, then clearly in sufficient quantities - since the fifties of the last century, many projects of combat and auxiliary ships have been equipped with installations, and even on Today, they have not lost their relevance yet. And given that shells for them are also literally in bulk, the rationalization proposal for equipping them with tracked vehicles seemed interesting to someone from the command.


It is difficult to judge what this very interest was based on: something suggests that the reason was not the combat experience gained during the special military operation in Ukraine, but the banal need for specialized fire weapons. But, as they say, we have what we have.

Moreover, although the 2M-3 is originally a ship-based means of self-defense against surface and air targets at a slant range of up to three kilometers, the very fact of its transplantation to land vehicles is not limited to the current "motorcycle leagues".

Art. installation on an armored train

Gun mount on an armored train

Thus, there is evidence that similar ersatz on MT-LB were used by the soldiers of the Azerbaijani army during the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, as well as the military armies of President Bashar al-Assad in the civil war in Syria.

Also, 2M-3 in the 60-70s for the purpose of air defense were installed on Soviet armored trains in the regions of the USSR bordering China. And in the GDR, IFA W50 trucks were equipped with this small-caliber artillery system - again, with the intention of creating a mobile anti-aircraft gun.

2M-3 on the chassis of the IFA W50 truck

2M-3 on the chassis of the IFA W50 truck

What is 2M-3?


The appearance of this small-caliber gun mount does not need a special description: in fact, it consists of a fixed barbette - a cylindrical steel "glass" - on which there is a rotating open tower of complex geometric shape with an inclined arrangement of armor plates in the frontal part.


Armor, by the way, cannot boast of a particularly large thickness - only up to four millimeters, so even the status of exclusively anti-fragmentation for it in modern conditions is a stretch. Such a serious drawback was dictated not only by the design features and requirements of the project, but also by the desire of the designers to make the 2M-3 a universal contraption with a relatively small mass, which could be installed even on a civilian ship.

All that it can withstand: small-caliber ammunition fragments and light rifle bullets weapons, and that's not all. But it weighs one and a half tons, which, taking into account its layout and equipment, is not so much, and the carrier itself in the person of MT-LB is not much better protected.

Inside the movable turret there is a twin artillery system in the form of two 25-mm belt-fed 110-PM automatic cannons (box-shaped round magazines for 65 rounds), created on the basis of the 84-KM anti-aircraft gun from the Great Patriotic War and providing a rate of fire in the range of 270–300 shots per minute per barrel. Their ammunition load includes two main types of shots: with armor-piercing tracers and fragmentation-incendiary tracers with an initial flight speed of about 900 meters per second.

The barrels are air-cooled, but during the reloading process, it is possible to run water through them. However, this is hardly guaranteed on MT-LB.


To the left of the machine guns is the gunner's place. Of the sighting devices at his disposal there is only a KMT-25 annular foreshortening sight and nothing more. Yes, yes, the same antediluvian - by today's standards - round sight, which, in spite of everything, does not lose its relevance.

To aim the gun mount at the target, the gunner has, as it is now fashionable to call it, a kind of joystick. If you turn it to the right or to the left, the tower will start moving in the corresponding direction. Up or down - guns will move vertically. However, there are no buttons for making shots on it, unfortunately. This is done with a pedal under the gunner's foot.

View of the 2M-3 gun mount from the stern. On the left, in the place of the gunner, you can observe the ring sight.

View of the 2M-3 gun mount from the stern. On the left, at the gunner's place, you can observe an annular sight.

The actuators of the hydraulic system located in the turret and turret barbette are responsible for providing these maneuvers with fire, with the help of which the horizontal rotation of the installation is carried out at a constant speed of 40 degrees per second, the vertical guidance of the guns in the range from -10 to +85 degrees, as well as the final stage of their reloading - cocking. Although, in the event of a hydraulic failure, completely manual guidance is also possible, which, of course, affects the effectiveness of the fire in the most unpleasant way.

Some nuances


Still, the fleet for 2M-3 is a native element, therefore, when it comes to transferring it to the MT-LB chassis, a number of questions arise that require at least some kind of solution, because otherwise this whole monster will even be more or less tolerable "gantrak" does not pull, from the word at all.

First of all, we are talking about, to put it mildly, not a very good weight balance: the published footage clearly shows that the stern of the MT-LB, where the gun system is installed, sank in order. It is understandable - 2M-3 weighs one and a half tons, so the suspension of the "motorcycle" from such a load, in any case, will not say thanks to the creators of this ersatz.


At the same time, there are no details yet regarding the foundation for the 2M-3 - I really want to hope that the barbette has somehow been extended in length to the bottom of the "motorbike", otherwise the center of gravity is at a dangerous height. This threatens with the fact that the car can tritely collapse on its side or back itself when overcoming even not the steepest bumps, and, unfortunately, there are enough of them on the fronts of the special operation.

Also noteworthy is the electrical part.

There is some feeling that the hydraulics of the 2M-3 were abandoned and switched to fully manual guidance, since this is the simplest solution that does not require labor, but predictably affects the effectiveness of firing. Simply because in the case of retaining hydraulic drives, it would be necessary to tinker with the power supply of the electric motor of the hydraulic system pump.

The MT-LB generator produces a voltage of up to 30 volts with a power of up to about 3,7 kilowatts, and the ship’s installation can “eat” the outlet voltage that is quite regular for us and consumes power from the on-board network of 0,95 kilowatts. The only question is converters and other electrical equipment that can start the hydraulics of an art installation. That is, the task is quite solvable, but have they taken up this?

I would also like to say a few words about loading automatic guns, but it doesn’t make much sense: magazines weighing half a centner are inconvenient to carry both through the roof of the 2M-3 tower, and from under the barbette, if such a possibility was provided. And so and so - it's very difficult. In combat conditions, in a moving car, and even in a limited space, to operate with such weights ... The occupation is not very attractive.

How will they apply?


Unfortunately, the armed forces, and we are talking not only about Russian, but also foreign, the structure as a whole is very inflexible, therefore, each type of military equipment is assigned its own strictly defined tasks, although sometimes this stereotype successfully fades into the background on the ground.

Nevertheless tank other tasks, except for tank ones, are not yet attributed. As well as infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers. However, where this Pacific monster on a tracked chassis will join is not yet very clear, simply because it should not be. This is not a regular unit, but a first-class ersatz.

On various sites and forums, this MT-LB with a ship-mounted gun mount has already been credited with the capabilities of an almost cheap alternative to the Terminator BMPT, especially mentioning its huge gun depression angles - they say, 85 degrees will allow you to reach all floors in the city, and fire in the field from two 25-mm trunks, it will crumble everything that is possible.

And there are no questions about the artillery part: a twin of two 25-mm machine guns really provides a monstrous density of fire for ground vehicles, and the aiming angles seem to be good. Just what to do with a turret installation open from above, absolutely no armor and dubious cross-country ability? And this is without taking into account the process of reloading guns on a tracked chassis, which is too problematic to describe without a mat.

Still, as a mobile fire system capable of covering the enemy with a hail of fragmentation shells from a relatively long distance (within a direct shot), the MT-LB with 2M-3 looks preferable. And we already have experience of this: "motorcycle leagues" with the ZU-23-2 have been performing this function for a long time, but the shooter is practically not protected in any way, and here the rotating tower is also available. It remains to be hoped that this contraption will not be tried on for the role of an infantry fighting vehicle or an armored personnel carrier.

Well, as a free judgment, you can see that the 2M-3 is primarily an anti-aircraft gun. Without external support, of course, she will not be able to fully express herself, since from the observation systems she has at her disposal only the eyes of the gunner himself. However, in the presence of external target designation, at least in azimuth, which can be provided by both radar and infrared means of detecting air targets, its effectiveness increases many times over. Which, in fact, is ensured in the organized air defense system of a warship.

Even the presence of some Strela-10 can make a conventional MT-LB battery with 2M-3 a more or less tolerable barrage armada, capable - in conditions of acceptable visibility - to fight at least low-speed and low-altitude drones-kamikaze, but so far it is written with a pitchfork on the water.
Author:
Photos used:
dzen.ru / arsenal-info.ru / wikipedia.org / t.me/boxwar01
292 comments
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  1. Klaus8691
    Klaus8691 11 March 2023 04: 21
    +19
    Not from a good life, apparently, this instance was invented. We will look at the results of the application, if they show of course.
    1. Evil 55
      Evil 55 11 March 2023 04: 39
      -7
      On lack of fish, and MTLB-pike .. As they say, first you need to look .. then be surprised and refine .. The idea is very good. It would be more rational to distribute the weight of the barbette, strengthen the shoulder strap for this tower, make the installation partially immersed in the Metel's hull and a completely adequate machine would turn out. hi for mobilized rati in wartime.
      1. Saburov_Alexander53
        Saburov_Alexander53 11 March 2023 07: 18
        +1
        quite an adequate car will turn out.
        There will be a Push-Pull if you attach a second tower, and so the Humpbacked Horse. You don’t need to go on the attack with this, but to secure the column with l / s during relocations, it will do.
        1. stankow
          stankow 11 March 2023 17: 21
          +2
          Definitely stationary, but mobile installation against drones. To protect the shchaba regiment. In which case, how else to bite off the infantry and infantry fighting vehicles.
          1. bayard
            bayard 11 March 2023 20: 31
            +7
            Quote: stankow
            Definitely stationary, but mobile installation against drones.

            Exactly . Looks like the Pacific Fleet with "Shilki" lack or complete absence. And the Marines fight (like the Airborne Forces, for example) exclusively on standard equipment. Against drones, this is exactly the kind of air defense that is needed - ZPU and ZAU on a highly passable chassis. So, although it is an ersatz, it is fast and from what is in the warehouses of the Navy.
            But the quality of the work of the shatabs ... is amazing. Especially the work of the General Staff. To this day, in the NWO, the Airborne Forces are fighting on ... their own standard equipment !!!
            On BMD!!!!!
            They are fighting on the BMD !!!
            On duralumin tins!! Which are flashed with an ordinary bullet.
            Which are only for parachute landing ... show off and movement ... But not for stubborn battles in a positional war. We have the best human material in the Airborne Forces and MPs of the Navy !! And it under the duralumin pseudo-"armor" ?? Aren't our generals fighting too wastefully? Or transfer the MP and Airborne Forces to the SVO at least to conventional infantry fighting vehicles ?? Which even bullets of ordinary calibers hold ... fragments are light ..
            And the BMP-1 \ 2 in reinforced armor with additional armor plates, also not particularly visible.
            In a YEAR+ CBO!
            So the Marines of the Fleet ended up on their armored personnel carriers ... without proper anti-aircraft cover ... and the headquarters do not care - "you have your own standard weapons, so fight them."
            So they get out of the situation on what is. Fortunately, the Fleet has enough of such modules in warehouses. Although in the photographs there are motorcycle leagues with both DShK and ZPU.
            ... Apparently in the Navy they looked much better at their modules in warehouses if instead of "Shilok" such ersatz went to the troops.

            Quote: stankow
            how it bites off on infantry and infantry fighting vehicles.

            Well, it's just out of hopelessness. There is nothing for them to do on the front end, but in the rear in the event of a breakthrough, yes, everything will shoot there.
            1. ramzay21
              ramzay21 11 March 2023 21: 18
              +2
              This model of weapons, of course, was not invented from a good life, and of course, when creating it, the combat experience of the heroic 155th brigade and the realities with the supply of armored vehicles and especially shells for it were taken into account. It is quite possible that the Pacific Fleet can supply a lot of shells for this technique, and such a self-propelled booth will be able to at least shoot at the enemy, unlike other armored vehicles for which there are no shells. And it is possible that it is also used as air defense, with which there are also big problems. In any case, the Marines know better, although it shows the state in which our government has driven our army.
              1. bayard
                bayard 12 March 2023 02: 30
                +4
                Quote: ramzay21
                And it is possible that it is also used as air defense, with which there are also big problems.

                Mainly and exclusively for the sake of providing air defense. For the highest saturation of the enemy’s combat formations with strike and reconnaissance UAVs put not only our troops on the LBS, not only close ones, but also operational rear areas under the blow of long-range high-precision enemy systems. These UAVs can be fought mainly by high saturation of their orders with machine-gun and cannon air defense systems. There should be quite a lot of ZPU and ZU-2-23 in warehouses and storage bases, but they are not self-propelled, and ZU-2-23 have long been used as fire reinforcement. And the Fleet of such systems generally had a miserable amount - their air defense systems were mainly on ships. But on the other hand, there are enough MTLBs and long-removed, but serviceable combat modules of 25 mm caliber for storage. and a lot of shells for them, which are GENERALLY not in demand anywhere else. So they hastily blinded from what was. It's just that there should be a lot of such anti-aircraft systems ... a lot. For their range is small, and UAVs fly everywhere.
                1. ramzay21
                  ramzay21 12 March 2023 08: 36
                  0
                  Mainly and exclusively for the sake of providing air defense. For the highest saturation of the enemy’s combat formations with strike and reconnaissance UAVs put not only our troops on the LBS, not only close ones, but also operational rear areas under the blow of long-range high-precision enemy systems.

                  Most likely it is!
            2. bandabas
              bandabas 12 March 2023 06: 46
              +1
              By itself, MTLB is a very good car so far. And, on its basis, you can do a lot. But not just that. On the face of another window dressing and cutting money, unfortunately.
              1. bayard
                bayard 12 March 2023 10: 34
                +1
                Quote: bandabas
                By itself, MTLB is a very good car so far. And, on its basis, you can do a lot. But not just that. On the face of another window dressing and cutting money, unfortunately.

                On the face of the solution of the issue in emergency mode. They were assembled at the Pacific Fleet (!!) from what was in the warehouses and bases of the Navy. If the MO doesn't catch mice, the ingenuity kicks in.
                There is a very urgent need for air defense systems on machine gun and cannon modules, or even from DShK on turrets. So they are molded from what they have and what BC is enough for. 25 mm. many and nowhere else are used, 14,5 are used little. And the warehouses are full.
            3. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 14 March 2023 10: 23
              +1
              Quote: bayard
              ... Apparently in the Navy they looked much better at their modules in warehouses if instead of "Shilok" such ersatz went to the troops.

              This is the fleet - there is nothing preserved in the warehouses. At the Northern Fleet for "Peter" at one time they found a DShKM on regular pedestals.

              Quote: bayard
              Against drones, this is exactly the kind of air defense that is needed - ZPU and ZAU on a highly passable chassis.

              And here is a garden vegetable. Against UAVs, first of all, a detection and guidance system is needed - that is, a full-fledged SUAO. Plus a stable chassis.
              And this is a miracle with manual guidance (even a path with a power drive, if any), an annular sight and buildup when firing (the lever on our AU chassis is so elevated) is only suitable for scaring off especially nervous drone operators .
      2. Sanguinius
        Sanguinius 11 March 2023 07: 38
        +20
        It would be more rational to distribute the weight of the barbette, strengthen the shoulder strap for this tower, make the installation partially immersed in the Metel's hull
        ... And install a 180-mm caliber gun from a Project 26 cruiser, that's a "cruising tank" for you, right? laughing wink
      3. aglet
        aglet 11 March 2023 11: 46
        +10
        "The idea is pretty good"
        there is no idea there - I blinded him from what was. decks don’t weld a piece on a motorcycle league there? remove the trunks, make a machine specifically for mtlb - it won’t be much longer and more expensive, and the cheburashka will turn out to be quite decent. It’s another matter, there is no one to think, and it’s very urgent, and that’s what happened. As always. how to mask such a tower, or bury it, did those "designers" think? the torque from such a shoulder will roll the platform on any slope and at any speed, and it will be possible to shoot only after leveling laughing
        1. Cloud4CRY
          Cloud4CRY 11 March 2023 13: 43
          0
          Quote: aglet
          and it will be possible to shoot only after leveling

          or pull off a stabilized platform from the ship, which is already there
        2. Alexey Lantukh
          Alexey Lantukh 11 March 2023 13: 48
          +8
          Well, actually, judging by TV, small-caliber anti-aircraft guns are mostly placed on the bodies of medium-sized trucks, and without any protection. At the same time, their height does not seem to be lower. Against the background of body artillery, the naval tower looks no worse. And convenience and effect - this will be said by the front, and not by us.
        3. stankow
          stankow 11 March 2023 17: 25
          +3
          And on the ship, when rolling, how does it shoot "with alignment"? :) There is a hydraulic drive, it will shoot at any slope. But not at "any speed", it will not shoot into motion. This mobileAnd not mobile installation.
      4. Guran33 Sergey
        Guran33 Sergey 12 March 2023 06: 39
        0
        Such an installation, due to the engine in the center of the car, will not work to move to the front. The T-55, if preserved with this installation as an anti-drone and possibly as an anti-missile (various "bouncing guns") will be in place, but again .. Armor attachment so that 55 mm machine guns are not they took meters from 400 .. no one will bother.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 11 March 2023 04: 57
      +47
      Here they are breakthrough technologies that have no analogues in the world! Based on new physical principles from the middle of the last century.... belay
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 11 March 2023 05: 39
          +17
          "masterpiece", a direct way to Abu Dhabi... From our country, dozens of companies and organizations participate in IDEX 2023, and hundreds of various samples and exhibits are presented at their stands.
      2. fetus
        fetus 11 March 2023 06: 39
        +17
        why not upgrade the Tsar Cannon from the Kremlin?
        1. Comrade I
          Comrade I 11 March 2023 12: 31
          +8
          Can. But for her then the royal calculation is needed.
          Although I have 4-5 people in mind ...
          1. Alien From
            Alien From 11 March 2023 16: 23
            -1
            And not only you +! They have a place there, bring the cores!
      3. Pankrat25
        Pankrat25 11 March 2023 06: 54
        +3
        Here they are breakthrough technologies that have no analogues in the world! Based on new physical principles from the middle of the last century .... belay

        The problem is that no one in the world is 100% independent in components for complex equipment. Military representatives at enterprises sabotage the use of imported components by all means. They begin to force them to issue and sign decisions for use with an insane number of signatures, where someone will definitely refuse to sign it, and usually this is an officer in uniform who knows nothing about technology. And either there are no domestic ones at all, or the delivery time is a year or more. As a result, it will end with the fact that domestic manufacturers were forbidden to put a Chinese chip in a domestic rocket, and then they jump for joy that they managed to buy a rocket with much worse characteristics from Iran or China. Something like this.
        Yesterday the news slipped that China agreed to sell weapons to Russia. Those. You can buy a microcircuit there Nizya, but you can buy a rocket !!!!
        1. Comrade_X
          Comrade_X 11 March 2023 07: 28
          0
          So be it. Stuff the missile warhead with microchips and sell it to Russia.
        2. aglet
          aglet 11 March 2023 11: 50
          0
          "That is, you can buy a microcircuit there, but you can buy a rocket !!!!"
          so a microcircuit costs a dozen fen, and a rocket costs thousands of yuan. invisible hand of the market
      4. ZhEK-Vodogrey
        ZhEK-Vodogrey 11 March 2023 07: 13
        +10
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        These are breakthrough technologies.

        This is an experience. To overcome the shell hunger, you can apply the Syrian experience.

        1. aglet
          aglet 11 March 2023 11: 52
          0
          "you can apply the Syrian experience"
          perhaps they are already riveted somewhere ...
        2. highlight
          highlight 11 March 2023 20: 40
          0
          Help the front! Hand over your gas bottle!
      5. Stas157
        Stas157 11 March 2023 07: 15
        +20
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        Here they are breakthrough technologies that have no analogues in the world! Based on new physical principles from the middle of the last century.... belay

        Victory at the front is forged in the rear!
        The people, as they see it, will trample such a miracle weapon into the military registration and enlistment offices.
        1. AA17
          AA17 11 March 2023 08: 24
          +10
          Special operation spawns monsters...


          "The sleep of reason produces monsters" (c)
          P.S. This miracle weapon was made according to those. task from MO?
          1. aglet
            aglet 11 March 2023 11: 54
            0
            "PS. Was this miracle weapon made according to the technical assignment from the Ministry of Defense?"
            clear stump! if serially, and at a military plant
          2. stankow
            stankow 11 March 2023 17: 29
            +5
            No one was given a job. It didn’t go through R&D, manufacturers-designers have nothing to do with it. Both the installation and the MTLB were in the warehouses of the Pacific. It is easy to weld in a rembase. Here he is fighting. Years would be pulled through the Moscow Region ...
        2. Alien From
          Alien From 11 March 2023 10: 03
          +3
          Correctly noted! Only such technology can be of interest to young people.
      6. Mazunga
        Mazunga 11 March 2023 10: 21
        +1
        you can also recommend Shmetello machine guns, you take a dozen mosquitoes in one frame, you rigidly fasten a single descent and goyda ((in Port Arthur they wrote that they used even all this wild deja vu causes
        1. cat Rusich
          cat Rusich 11 March 2023 23: 56
          +5
          Quote from Mazunga
          you can also recommend Shmetello machine guns, you take a dozen mosquitoes in one frame, you rigidly fasten a single descent and goyda ((in Port Arthur they wrote that they used even all this wild deja vu causes
          Machine gun Shmetylo.
          Rifles were used to make it. "Hanyang 88" (aka Mannlicher M1888) chambered for 8x52mmR
          It was necessary to use just such rifles because of the longitudinally sliding bolt, which did not require rotation along the axis by hand - the bolt itself rotated during movement and locked the barrel.
          Where did Hanyang 88 come from in Port Arthur? - from the warehouses left from the time when the city was part of the Qing Empire China) until 1898.
          By the way ...
          The contract for the lease of Port Arthur and Da-lian-wang was concluded with the "small" assistance of bribes ... 500000 rubles Li Hongzhang bully и 250000 rubles Chang Yinghuang bully
          And when Russian troops entered the city of Port Arthur, the local garrison of the Chinese army (20000 bayonets) left the city in 1 day, but only after giving a bribe to General Song Qing bully 100000 rubles and General Ma Yukun bully 50000 rubles... Leaving 59 guns and ammunition in the city (the rifles remained there)
          Bribes were given gold и silver coin, not banknotes.
          hi
          1. Mazunga
            Mazunga 12 March 2023 07: 27
            -1
            definitely handsome))) listen, maybe we just adopted Chinese best practices?)))
      7. The comment was deleted.
      8. stankow
        stankow 11 March 2023 17: 26
        -7
        Not "breakthrough", but "breakthrough" drones tear apart.
    3. svoroponov
      svoroponov 11 March 2023 09: 56
      0
      I think so, such an experimental installation among the paratroopers was tested in advance and obviously turned out to be effective for a number of tasks. Somewhere back in May, something similar slipped in the commercials. She herself stood in a dug recess and only a tower towered above the surface, which fired.
      In addition, apparently hitting the hull of the vehicle and depriving it of mobility allows the gunners to survive and continue to fire from the turret. Surely, additional armor sheets were welded around the perimeter of the turret to withstand bullets from a large-caliber machine gun. Well, and further. They will most likely be installed as long-term firing points in the second echelon in the Zaparozhye or Kherson directions. But in the forefront they will not be for sure. In general, our ship gun mounts are very effective and trouble-free with a decent firing range.
      1. aglet
        aglet 11 March 2023 11: 56
        0
        "In general, our ship gun mounts are very effective and trouble-free with a decent firing range."
        Well, yes. but this is if used on a ship laughing
        1. stankow
          stankow 11 March 2023 17: 32
          +1
          And if they took it off the ship and held it in the warehouse, then what, the initial speed, range, reach in height drops? Does the earth prevent the propellant charge from throwing the projectile?
          1. spyder100
            spyder100 11 March 2023 19: 16
            +5
            If they removed it from the ship, it means there is no hydraulics, manual guidance and reloading, no water cooling of the barrels, the firing platform is less stable, especially if you fire at an angle to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle ...
    4. Ohsetin
      Ohsetin 11 March 2023 09: 59
      +15
      She will not have any results of the application. If they don’t tear it with artillery, then they will shower it with VOGs from copters. Utilization of equipment and manpower, that's all the application.
      1. stankow
        stankow 11 March 2023 17: 35
        -13
        Just this product is against copters spitting VOGs and all sorts of other rubbish. Try hovering at 50 meters and start aiming. To tear them into plastic shreds with powder gases alone, and there are still 2x300 shells per minute ... Drone operators in the vicinity with a radius of 2 km will not even enter. The battlefield OP, together with the shab, will be covered.
        1. Ohsetin
          Ohsetin 12 March 2023 01: 13
          -1
          These 2x300 will run out very quickly, and LBS will not be able to reload. So, they will butcher like a god chyuryupakha on the way out.
        2. Munhausen
          Munhausen 14 March 2023 21: 26
          0
          Just this product is against copters spitting VOGs and all sorts of other rubbish. Try hovering at 50 meters and start aiming.

          What long-sightedness should an operator have in order to view drones at a distance of 50 m in a ring sight?
    5. AAK
      AAK 11 March 2023 12: 22
      +3
      I don’t know, the 25-mm is clearly not a running caliber now, so I can’t imagine the state of ammunition for this “wunderwaffe” after 35-40 years of storage, in my opinion, for the purposes of combating UAVs in the near zone, it was easier to make a makeshift alteration a paired or quad ZPU 14,5mm KPVT, or ZSU-23-2 - on these products with ammunition it is much easier, the rate of fire is higher and the mass is much less, in addition to the same ZPU there are optical and collimator sights. Both products have swivel mechanisms, it is enough to make armor screens at the gunner's and loader's positions. Yes, but where are our "Shilka" - "Tunguska", for the fight against drones - that's it, probably again big stars with a practical mind have significant problems ...
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 11 March 2023 19: 26
        +2
        There seems to be a lack of running calibers, or supplies delivered in a strange way. Ammunition consumption, especially in urban battles, is large. I believe, somewhere around 150-250 small-caliber shells for each enemy shooter who has settled in any building, even in a high-rise building, even in a barn.
        Someone at the top, who is in charge of supplying ammunition, behaves in an inexplicable way, not comparing the supply with the intensity of the fighting, or vice versa, comparing it well.........!?
        And in the case of using the "marine" caliber of 25 mm, you can bypass the dependence on strange suppliers, guided by unknown, hard to explain motives.
    6. Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat 11 March 2023 12: 43
      +15
      Of the sighting devices at his disposal, there is only a KMT-25 annular foreshortening sight and nothing more. Yes, yes, the same antediluvian - by today's standards - a round sight, which, despite everything, does not lose its relevance .

      I wonder if this concerned Western equipment supplied to Ukraine, then what epithets would be awarded to such a sight, which is in "Western" weapons? "Worthless"? "Long obsolete"? "Useless"? "They put it just not to throw it away"? ....
    7. Arbeiternegast
      Arbeiternegast 11 March 2023 12: 51
      +5
      It reminds of the times of Port Arthur .... Either they put torpedo tubes in defense, then they rolled mines from a hill onto yaps, then they put five mosquitoes on a machine, then they riveted mortars from 47mm barrels ...
      What was it all from? From the lack of machine guns and mortars with howitzers, in "progressive" bulk-crunchy .... Even Keggorn mortars, 50 pieces, were locked up ... Sample of the 17th century ...
      I really do not want this to continue in our time, with our army. It is clear that you can’t foresee everything, but handicraft Kulibin handicrafts are no match for similar industrial designs, and if something has shown itself well, immediately put it into production in the defense industry!
      1. alekseykabanets
        alekseykabanets 11 March 2023 18: 43
        +9
        Quote: Arbeiternegast
        Reminds me of Port Arthur...

        And the ending will be the same. They will only expose him with another victory.
        1. Vasia
          Vasia 11 March 2023 22: 52
          -6
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Quote: Arbeiternegast
          Reminds me of Port Arthur...

          And the ending will be the same. They will only expose him with another victory.

          Alexey, do not panic, everything will be fine for us.
          1. AAK
            AAK 12 March 2023 00: 24
            +4
            For whom exactly? No remarkableness on our part ... All the joy that our losses, according to military correspondents and individual officials, are much lower than those of Bandera ... otherwise, either marking time (in the absence of command operational-tactical skill, even about operational-strategic we don’t speak from the word at all ...), or frontal "squeezing" ...
        2. Arbeiternegast
          Arbeiternegast 12 March 2023 00: 40
          +1
          And the ending will be the same. Only expose him with another victory

          I really would not like ... Such a finale ...
          1. alekseykabanets
            alekseykabanets 12 March 2023 08: 11
            0
            Quote: Arbeiternegast
            I really would not like ... Such a finale ...

            Judging by the flow of this NWO, I'm afraid it's only a matter of time. What's even scarier is that it won't stop there.
    8. kapitan281271
      kapitan281271 11 March 2023 15: 36
      +4
      I’m now reviewing reports from Army 2022 there with a gravitsapa on a hump, well, they didn’t show it on new physical principles, apparently even for ARMY2020, ENTA gravitsapa was a hefty secret, but seriously, from decent words, only prepositions You and Na
      1. avatar123
        avatar123 12 March 2023 09: 53
        0
        here it’s more likely not even an excuse, but the place of the estate!
    9. Henri Mik
      Henri Mik 11 March 2023 15: 51
      +3
      Life is not to blame. If you read carefully. This weapon and ammunition for it in large quantities. So why not use? And use factory resources for the benefit of the production of modern weapons. Moreover, there is a shortage of specialists in those profiles.
      1. svoroponov
        svoroponov 11 March 2023 20: 32
        -7
        By the way, the top of the tower is closed. So you can’t hit with a copter.
        Yes, and a sighting device, I think not a circle with a crosshair, but something newer. But once they tried it and they showed effectiveness, well, why not use it .. And the rate of fire of these guns is such that it cuts lightly armored equipment like an autogenous metal.
        Although there, instead of cannons, heavy machine guns are installed, if anyone noticed. But still - two modern large-caliber ones with a good firing range and with a supply of cartridges inside the mmamalyga and the ability to quickly maneuver is also not very bad. To combat UAVs and infantry, and used in secondary areas, it is also bad.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 11 March 2023 20: 53
          0
          Quote: svoroponov
          And the rate of fire of these guns is such that it cuts lightly armored equipment like metal with autogenous.

          Is it 300 rounds per minute then, on the barrel?
      2. Grits
        Grits 12 March 2023 09: 19
        +1
        I also think that THIS is better than NOTHING. if there weren’t this ersatz, then there would be nothing at all either for air defense, or for covering the defenders, or for fire support. Moreover, the thing comes out cheap - from gathering dust and unclaimed installations and a bunch of "motorcycle leagues". Naturally, it has a lot of minuses, but it will do its job. Put such a thing in a hole, and try to approach it. And there is no need for her to rush across the fields, behind the attackers or on the defensive.
    10. Senator Om
      Senator Om 11 March 2023 16: 13
      +8
      It has been going on for more than a year, and instead of new equipment, old Soviet stocks are going to the front that they did not have time to sell to the Papuans in Africa. During this time, in 1941-1942, under Stalin, thousands of new tanks, armored vehicles, artillery and millions of shells were built at factories. All these armats, terminators, which the Kurgans advertised did not live up to expectations, a couple of terminators at the front did not change the outcome of the battles. And Khrushchev's, Brezhnev's tanks and mtlb are fighting. It’s scary to think what would have happened if the surviving remnants of the military equipment of the USSR would not have fought with spears and bows.
      1. stankow
        stankow 11 March 2023 17: 40
        -2
        During this time, in 1941-1942, under Stalin, factories built thousands of new tanks, armored vehicles, artillery

        Just in the hardest first year of the war, only tested equipment was produced. New developments have been halted. We returned to the existing samples. Factories and design bureaus really turned around by the end of the second year. But not the first. And they also armed the mobilized with everything that was available!
        1. spektr9
          spektr9 11 March 2023 20: 11
          +3
          Factories and design bureaus really turned around by the end of the second year. But not the first. And they also armed the mobilized with everything that was available!

          As already in the NWO, the entire European part of the Russian Federation was taken and you urgently had to evacuate the factories? )
          If not, where is the technology?
        2. AAK
          AAK 12 March 2023 00: 28
          0
          comparing 2022 with 1941 is somehow not entirely correct (tolerant expression)
      2. svoroponov
        svoroponov 11 March 2023 20: 50
        +2
        In general, the military says something completely different about our technology.
        And there are many novelties at the front. Not everything is shown on commercials.
        But war is war. The enemy is also not weak and is familiar with the basics of warfare. Even with modern equipment and means, one must also be able to use them at the right time and precisely against the enemy. And he is an infection, hiding, maneuvering, setting tricks.
        Well, what's the point if you launched a high-precision missile at a barn, somewhere there is something, or it wasn’t there, or it was but they brought it. So you need to conduct accurate reconnaissance and additional reconnaissance, and this time. You have a weapon, but you can't use it right away. Will you fire the Krasnopol projectile at single infantrymen? The enemy seems to be here, you have high-precision ammunition, but will you shoot? That's right. Even if you have everything in abundance, this does not mean that you need to equate everything in front of you and where something is and where there is no one and there was not. Or a tank is coming for a forest plantation. The UAV detected it and transmitted the coordinates to the artillerymen, and how, you will hit the target without seeing it, especially since it does not move evenly.
        It’s good for you Krasnopol, but the target needs to be highlighted, and here it is, but behind a forest plantation, and even if somewhere nearby there is a person with a backlight device, the trees will interfere with guidance. And on the UAV, the backlight may or may not be. That is, you have everything, but you cannot hit the technique.
        1. AAK
          AAK 12 March 2023 00: 31
          0
          We have a very big shortage of reconnaissance UAVs and aircraft with satellites and it’s simply catastrophic - for capable and not messed up generals
          1. Munhausen
            Munhausen 14 March 2023 21: 30
            0
            We have a very big shortage of reconnaissance UAVs and aircraft with satellites and is simply catastrophic

            Across the entire flying range, there is a catastrophic shortage and a terrible backlog in terms of capabilities among what is.
    11. UltraTotenkopF
      UltraTotenkopF 12 March 2023 07: 49
      0
      Quote from Klaus8691
      Not from a good life, apparently, this instance was invented. We will look at the results of the application, if they show of course.

      For a good life, there is Derivation-Air Defense, and if you combine them into one battery with the Sosna air defense system, then the near zone will be closed from almost all drones and various other flying crap, and the technique described in the article for these needs is a very dubious pleasure! negative
    12. Subtext
      Subtext 12 March 2023 17: 32
      0
      I don’t understand why the Pacific Oceanists didn’t put up the mast? 8 am - the raising of the Naval flag!
  2. hagrid
    hagrid 11 March 2023 04: 44
    +12
    I have one question_ why the tower was not lowered lower? The barbet could be sunk into the hull itself.
    1. Mikhail Drabkin
      Mikhail Drabkin 11 March 2023 07: 08
      +11
      Spiteful critics: the military-industrial complex did not participate in the creation of the chariot

      —- Conditional passionary Kuznetsov, the master of the repair shop in the village of N-skom, showed the assembled chariot to the Zvezda engineer Sidorov. “The soldiers and I decided to do our best to help our people at the front. They got the chassis and the turret, and they blinded it. We drove along the dirt road and ravines, shot. Works. Can you help us make half or a dozen?”. Sidorov commented on the center of gravity, on subsidence. To which Kuznetsov said, “We understand this even without you, Sidor. But it rides and fights even with 6 boxes of shells. So you will help - after all, everything is for the front ... especially our 155th brigade ... it’s like your son-in-law there ..”

      —-So it was born, this Far Eastern chariot. And you are “the military-industrial complex this, the military-industrial complex this ..”! It's embarrassing to read this crap... Those who cannot, teach. Those who can - dare and do.
    2. svoroponov
      svoroponov 11 March 2023 10: 00
      -1
      Obviously they didn’t lower it in order to save the troop compartment. In addition, once again, when the tower is hit, the mobility of the vehicle is preserved. In case of defeat of the car and its immobilization, the ability of the installation to fire remains. There is something not bad in this.
    3. Ohsetin
      Ohsetin 11 March 2023 10: 01
      +1
      This requires more complex work with the body of the walker. And so welded in a circle and ready.
      1. hagrid
        hagrid 11 March 2023 15: 55
        +1
        Well, if you just welded _ then this is not very good. I think some kind of pedestals, racks were welded into the landing.
    4. aglet
      aglet 11 March 2023 11: 57
      -2
      "I have one question_ why wasn't the tower lowered lower?"
      he is a designer, he sees it that way!
    5. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 17: 44
      +1
      The installation is stationary, although mobile. against drones. The calculation must be on duty around the clock. So he is resting in the MTLB building. It will not move at high speed, it will not go on the attack, so the increase in CG is not critical.
      If the barbet were drowned, then in general the troop compartment would become impregnable. And there you also need to carry BC, and the calculation on the march.
  3. hagrid
    hagrid 11 March 2023 04: 48
    +1
    And yes, there was information that the weapons were changed, they were installed at 2 kpvt.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 11 March 2023 09: 45
      +8
      This is a broken phone. KPVT was installed on other motorcycle leagues, also naval (Caspian, it seems, because motorcycle leagues mutated somewhere there) 2M7 installations.
  4. 41st region
    41st region 11 March 2023 04: 48
    +28
    Of course, these shushpanzers riveted not from an excess of "Terminators" and "Boomerangs".
    And they laughed at the non-brothers when they sawed their "chimeras".
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 11 March 2023 09: 56
      +12
      Well, so the marines were given the BMP-3M with the latest body kit of the Research Institute of Steel.


      They buried them heroically in the minefields.


      Here in the photo you can see the scatter of mines - and they are just outlined, they are perfectly detected from a similar copter when reconnaissance of the advance area. Either they scored or saved the copter and went to chance.


      Broshenki finished off with copters and FPV.


      Now the abandoned women live very shortly at the LBS. For the photo-video recording of the destruction of the abandoned is paid as for the destroyed combat unit. And they pay well. I saw obscene notes, levels, at night the group climbed to pull off fresh daytime throws and trophy, and there the mavikovods had already bombed them with grenades into hatches.
      1. Rosemary
        Rosemary 11 March 2023 10: 18
        0
        Quote: donavi49
        For the photo-video recording of the destruction of the abandoned is paid as for the destroyed combat unit. And they pay well. I saw obscene notes, levels, at night the group climbed to pull off fresh daytime throws and trophy, and there the mavikovods had already bombed them with grenades into hatches.

        They lie, most likely from anger and greed - they themselves wanted to finish off the abandoned woman and get money, but they were ahead of them.
        Because how to capture equipment from those fields and send it to the rear for repairs is quite dangerous and problematic.
    2. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 17: 47
      -4
      The Terminator is not a replacement for this machine. It has optimal elevation/rotation angles for infantry and tanks. And this one has coals for anti-aircraft work, against drones.
  5. Prokop_Pork
    Prokop_Pork 11 March 2023 04: 56
    +1
    When creating weapons, a strict specialization in the field of application should be set, with the main parameters: convenience and lethal efficiency. And here, who knows: maybe this way, or maybe that way ... you see, it will come in handy somewhere. This does not work.
    1. svoroponov
      svoroponov 11 March 2023 10: 02
      -3
      Terminator has been criticized by many. And now everyone directly involved in hostilities praises him and demands more of them.
      So here too. Why send something in metal if a new niche for application has been identified and tested.
      Again. We are not here to criticize the actions of the military. But the installation was tested and obviously showed its effectiveness, it was found to be used and a small batch was released. In the second line of defense, it is just very useful. Although we don't know much about her yet. Perhaps this development is associated with some kind of existing radar and works with it in conjunction with air targets such as UAVs. The Shell type was smashed from one installation to two.
      1. Hagakure
        Hagakure 11 March 2023 15: 54
        +2
        Comparing the Terminator and this is like comparing God's gift to scrambled eggs. These are from different files. How can you even compare this? It's just a waste of motorcycle leagues. This is just sabotage.
  6. fiberboard
    fiberboard 11 March 2023 05: 03
    +18
    Author, author ......., this is called a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, Kurganets,, Sergey Kuzhugetovich has long promised. So the new equipment went to the troops. Need to rejoice! It is high time to understand what "nuggets" are leading our country. And who sits in the Defense Ministry and the General Staff. Ever since the first Chechen war, it was understood that the infantry needed small-caliber rapid-fire artillery for support. Therefore, they began to actively use 2-23. But this never reached our generals. Therefore, they still have not decided: do we need a BMPT, Terminator, or not. Although it would seem to look at the motorcycle league from 2-23 and everything is clear. Now they are still procrastinating on various sites about installing 57mm on BMPTs, they say the caliber is larger, armor penetration, range, high-explosive action. But for this there is artillery and tanks. Let them work for 5 km. And the infantry needs a small-caliber rapid-fire cannon, and the more ammunition, the better.
    1. Hagakure
      Hagakure 11 March 2023 15: 55
      +4
      And she is Kurganets because a mound formed on top of the motorcycle league?
      1. Yaroslav Tekkel
        Yaroslav Tekkel 11 March 2023 21: 19
        +1
        Because ancient people buried in mounds.
  7. The comment was deleted.
    1. 2112vda
      2112vda 11 March 2023 06: 57
      +1
      Your statement is not entirely correct. It is not the designers who are to blame for this problem, that is, the developments, but there is no will at the top of the generals. History repeats itself as always. The same situation was in 1914 and 1941. There were developments, there were tested prototypes, but the generals did not understand the importance of this issue. Everywhere in the world, questions about the supply of new weapons are decided by generals, and they, as a rule, are always wrong. The reason is simple, they do not have the appropriate specialized education, and they think in terms of past wars. So everything is as always.
  8. Dimonk
    Dimonk 11 March 2023 05: 11
    -2
    For fighters that are at the front, such a weapon is good, the main thing is that it works. Well, the holy face with his friends will say this, everything is going according to plan
  9. 1 z1
    1 z1 11 March 2023 05: 12
    +6
    It is possible that such a hybrid was made at the request of the Marines. And there was always order with fantasy in the Navy. Plus, their own ammunition and in their warehouses.
    1. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 17: 52
      -3
      Sailors see the fighting differently. They always had a problem with "Air", they do not know mortar fire. Apparently it got enough for some copters to bombard them with vogs. So they bristled. Drone operators will bypass their positions.
  10. ximkim
    ximkim 11 March 2023 05: 16
    +5
    Putin and Shoigu have not yet shown all their trump cards.
    So .. the further, the more interesting it will be sad
    1. Leader_Barmaleev
      Leader_Barmaleev 11 March 2023 05: 50
      -2
      Yeah ... I remember a song from the times of my naked-bellied childhood ...
      Auto-moto-velo-photo
      Two porcelain legs
      Two magnet hooves
      On the hooves - irons.

      Auto-moto-velo-photo
      Started your motor
      Opened all the gates
      Went out into the open.

      Ran through the lowlands
      It suddenly stopped
      Either oil or gasoline
      Covered everything around.

      Auto-moto-velo-photo
      Ran into the swamp.
      For the swamp, for the stream,
      Ate a ton of bricks.

      That's why, that's why
      The axle in the wheel is broken
      And suddenly
      auto-moto-
      bike photo
      Exploded.

      ... The boys found something
      But a little, five parts:
      Two springs, two tires
      And a gearbox.

      And the cockpit and pedals
      And wheels and handlebars
      Geese-swans pecked,
      The animals were taken to their burrows.
  11. Egor Adashev
    Egor Adashev 11 March 2023 05: 17
    +5
    Both in Afghanistan and in Chechnya, they put zu23 either on the Urals or on motorcycle leagues ... Maybe it's time to do this in series, for example, based on the T55 or 62?
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 11 March 2023 06: 17
      +10
      Quote: Egor Adashev
      Both in Afghanistan and in Chechnya, they put zu23 either on the Urals or on motorcycle leagues ... Maybe it's time to do this in series, for example, based on the T55 or 62?
      ZSU-37-2 "Yenisei"

      ZSU-57-2

      On TV they showed how an old anti-aircraft gun works in Ukraine: shells explode over the forest (over the positions of the Nazis)
      1. aglet
        aglet 11 March 2023 12: 07
        -1
        "Maybe it's time to do this in series, for example, based on the T55 or 62?"
        if the shilka is armored, a wonderful gun will turn out, both for the city and for the first line, only reduce the rate of fire to attack, or halve the trunks
  12. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 11 March 2023 05: 18
    +32
    Special operation spawns monsters

    This is not a special operation that gives rise to monsters, but the most common lack of strategy, when the most necessary and necessary for the country is to swell huge funds for the re-equipment of the "royal" chambers and the creation of an armored "Aurus" in various versions ...
    It's so important to drive up to the porch on the "analogue in the world" or standing in such a car, holding the handrail, accept the parade of weapons that are not available ...
    Quote from Klaus8691
    Not from a good life, apparently, this instance was invented.

    This is not from a good life ... This is from inept leadership, brains swollen with fat, excessive lust for power and arrogance, with all the other vices that unlimited power and unlimited possibilities give rise to ...
    It's called splurge at balls and audiences, and just goof off in a bad time...
    There is no purpose in this product, except for demonstrating shame ... For some reason, no one in the Kremlin rides the UAZ ...
    Today, prestige appears where it should not be. And he should be where you need to raise the national flag or hit the enemy so that he loses all desire to resist ...
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 March 2023 12: 10
      -1
      Quote: ROSS 42
      This is not a special operation that gives rise to monsters, but the most common lack of strategy, when the most necessary and necessary for the country is to swell huge funds for the re-equipment of the "royal" chambers and the creation of an armored "Aurus" in various versions ...

      The oligarch's yacht costs as much as several hundred BMP-3s. It's not about the auruses, it's about the system that parasitizes on the labor of the common people. When instead of several hundred BMP-3s we have a beautiful yacht of an oligarch. And besides, our state system is so rotten that it is generally incapable of anything other than spreading rot on the crazy liberals. And selectively. I remember here almost a year ago they wrote about a plant for the production of drones operating in three shifts. And how, where are the products? Complete lies and hypocrisy. instead of a result.
  13. Leader_Barmaleev
    Leader_Barmaleev 11 March 2023 05: 25
    +14
    My friends, if my memory serves me right, we live in a strong state. And what is, in essence, braces? These are some passionate foundations of the consciousness of society. And one of the bonds is (when the mess reaches the boiling point) a heart-rendingly hysterical cry - WELL, DO ANYTHING ALREADY!!! And instead of a normal weapon, suitable for the place and time, with a clear concept of its use and interaction with other types of weapons, such "miracles" appear. This is all from poverty - from production at the level of the beginning of the last century, from the fact that it is more profitable for a designer to work as a steamer in a bathhouse, from the fact that officers are not shaved to blue and slightly drunk, but drunk to blue and slightly shaved. In short, as the classic said, devastation - it is not in closets, devastation is in the heads.
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 March 2023 12: 17
      -1
      Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
      In short, as the classic said, devastation - it is not in closets, devastation is in the minds.

      The devastation is not in the minds, the devastation is all around. And the very people who are now telling us about the need to be patriots from a zombie man arranged it or contributed to it.
  14. buv59
    buv59 11 March 2023 05: 28
    +12
    A terrible sight. Although not artisanal, but still - ordinary. The author's concern about the overturning of this creation is not unfounded. It is sad to see that this is produced in Russia and obviously not from a good life. Is ZU-23-2 not enough? As Comrade Shvonder said: "This is some kind of shame." Isn't it time to put the quadruple Maxim on the long-suffering motorcycle league?
    1. IVZ
      IVZ 11 March 2023 05: 57
      +10
      Is ZU-23-2 not enough?
      . Most likely there is not enough ammunition and barrels. Ammunition cal. 23 are produced in small batches only for foreign customers, because we have adopted a "single" 30th caliber. Although in fact the ammunition for different branches of the military is still different. And the fact of being in demand and popularity during the maintenance of the database of installations of this caliber by higher authorities is ignored with persistence worthy of a better application.
      1. aglet
        aglet 11 March 2023 12: 18
        +1
        "Most likely there is not enough ammunition and barrels"
        Germans resumed the production of shells for a cheetah for Ukraine, but our military-industrial complex cannot do it for its army? or doesn't want to?
    2. aglet
      aglet 11 March 2023 12: 14
      0
      "Isn't it time to put the quadruple Maxim on the long-suffering motorcycle league?"
      no, it's still early, 2m3 hasn't run out yet
    3. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 17: 58
      +2
      Well, there are not enough ZU-23-2 sailors. Where will they get it from? And 2x25 is worse? Pointing speeds are higher, hydraulic drive, pointing angles are greater. And there was no need to wait, everything was already in warehouses, their own. With their own ammunition, with trained crews (from the reserve).
      1. spyder100
        spyder100 11 March 2023 19: 24
        0
        Where does hydraulics come from? The drives were left manual, so there is no pointing speed, the sight is the simplest ring ...
        1. stankow
          stankow 11 March 2023 21: 39
          +1
          The hydraulic pump is easy to attach to the engine. Belt latch. And you can spin it through a DC motor.
  15. Amateur
    Amateur 11 March 2023 05: 38
    +12
    And where did the "Shilki" go? Or have they been cut into metal for "excessive" efficiency and to please the "partners"?
    1. Sebostyuan
      Sebostyuan 11 March 2023 08: 37
      +4
      Yesterday I watched a video on TGC. In one echelon, on neighboring platforms, there are Shilki and this is a miracle. It's just that the authors have focused on MTLB.
    2. faiver
      faiver 11 March 2023 10: 25
      +4
      And where did the "Shilki" go?
      - get up ... when were they taken out of production? and they didn’t release so much, something was sold, something was scrapped, well, something is now being pulled out of the storerooms ... MTLBshek is stupidly ten times more
    3. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 17: 59
      -1
      Shilki were in the Ground Forces. And the sailors found this. What's worse?
      1. faiver
        faiver 11 March 2023 18: 37
        +2
        What is worse?
        - yes, actually for everyone, one glance is enough, but in the absence of the countess, the maid will do ...
        1. Yaroslav Tekkel
          Yaroslav Tekkel 11 March 2023 21: 23
          0
          Here, obviously, "for lack of a maid, a janitor will do."
          1. faiver
            faiver 11 March 2023 22: 45
            -1
            stop with these rainbow hints, you are not here, we do not need tolerance ... lol
    4. glock-17
      glock-17 11 March 2023 20: 13
      -3
      In one of my comments, I expressed the opinion that soon I would have to get Shilka to fight drones. There were also fears that they had already been cut down by effective managers. This miracle technique seems to confirm my fears. We will soon return to multi-turreted tanks, or maybe even ask the Mongols for the secrets of a composite bow.
    5. alexmach
      alexmach 12 March 2023 00: 48
      +2
      And where did the "Shilki" go?

      And what about Shilki? How and what to aim them at? Shilka for its intended use requires thoughtful modernization.
  16. certero
    certero 11 March 2023 05: 57
    -2
    The enemy has an armored personnel carrier-4 with a remote-controlled twin artillery mount, and we have this crap where a person is sitting, practically unprotected by anything.
    1. Leader_Barmaleev
      Leader_Barmaleev 11 March 2023 06: 07
      +9
      We were often told as children that
      There is always room for exploit in life

      But at the same time they "forgot" to add that
      just need to stay away from this place as far as possible

      But some added that
      Our country will always give you the opportunity to accomplish a feat

      But in general - the feat of some people is always the stupidity and gouging of others ...
    2. IVZ
      IVZ 11 March 2023 06: 41
      +7
      The enemy has an armored personnel carrier-4 with a remote-controlled twin artillery mount, and we have this crap where a person is sitting, practically unprotected by anything.
      We also have armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. Here, a comparison with machine-gun pickups, gantraks and other crafts is more correct.
    3. Simple
      Simple 11 March 2023 14: 29
      -3
      Quote: certero
      The enemy has an armored personnel carrier-4 with a remote-controlled twin artillery mount, and we have this crap where a person is sitting, practically unprotected by anything.


      And she does not need to collide with the BTR-4 - the lot of this pepelats is the saturation of the object air defense in the rear. And who told you that the BTR-4 crew is more efficient than a Russian peasant with a "Chinese" type radio and an anti-aircraft gun with manual guidance and a reticle sight?
    4. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 18: 02
      -2
      And who will shoot him? Drone? So the drone needs to get closer to 50 meters and stand exactly at the zenith, aim for a long time. This installation will get it from 500 meters. As soon as he shows up. But to hang to throw all sorts of rubbish - sorry, it will not work in any way.
  17. Mordvin77
    Mordvin77 11 March 2023 06: 20
    -4
    For Victory, any means are good. The second life of equipment, otherwise they are rusting at the BT storage bases. Only it is desirable to stick modern optics.
    1. Prokop_Pork
      Prokop_Pork 11 March 2023 07: 22
      +1
      The fact that rust is pulled out and sent instead of normal weapons will be paid for with the lives of soldiers. But, and in a businesslike way, and for the victory.
    2. glock-17
      glock-17 11 March 2023 21: 02
      -4
      I would not want to climb into this tin can for the sake of recycling junk.
      1. Vasia
        Vasia 11 March 2023 23: 05
        0
        Quote: Glock-17
        I would not want to climb into this tin can for the sake of recycling junk.

        Where would you like to?
        1. glock-17
          glock-17 11 March 2023 23: 31
          -2
          Would you like it straight from the couch?
          1. Vasia
            Vasia 12 March 2023 00: 07
            -1
            Quote: Glock-17
            Would you like it straight from the couch?

            I don’t do balabolism from the couch, like you, I often ask balabols questions. I went to the military registration and enlistment office more than once - until they took it. And you - a question for a question - have nothing to say? He stammered, so answer, why chew snot.
            1. glock-17
              glock-17 12 March 2023 00: 39
              -3
              And can you confirm your statements? You can say anything.
              1. Vasia
                Vasia 12 March 2023 01: 08
                0
                Quote: Glock-17
                And can you confirm your statements? You can say anything.

                Again a question on a question is already a bad form. How can you confirm, except at a personal meeting, let's agree ... With the same success, I can ask you to confirm for a start that you are not mentally retarded, otherwise it might not make sense to communicate with you? Write in a personal about the meeting, let's go to the military registration and enlistment office, where I have already gone three times.
                1. glock-17
                  glock-17 12 March 2023 03: 15
                  -4
                  Now everything is clear who is mentally retarded and why you are not trusted with weapons. The conversation is over.
                  1. Vasia
                    Vasia 12 March 2023 08: 28
                    0
                    Quote: Glock-17
                    Now everything is clear who is mentally retarded and why you are not trusted with weapons. The conversation is over.

                    I was trusted with firearms in the military unit at the shooting range already in my school years. Balabolsky drain counted.
  18. doc_i
    doc_i 11 March 2023 06: 21
    0
    https://t.me/dva_majors/10661
    Video review on the same topic.
    A cool gantrak can turn out to protect a variety of objects, first of all.
  19. Just_Kvasha
    Just_Kvasha 11 March 2023 06: 37
    -1
    A distinctive feature of a good weapon is external beauty and grace. It is always beautiful! There are no exceptions. And now I'm looking at this "masterpiece" ... Maybe I don't understand beauty?
    When I compare our tanks and Leopards, I see that ours are much more beautiful.
    1. svp67
      svp67 11 March 2023 11: 20
      +4
      Quote: Just_Kvasha
      When I compare our tanks and Leopards, I see that ours are much more beautiful.

      This is a very subjective opinion. And any German likes the design of the "Leopard" more
    2. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 18: 06
      +1
      You will see it as it works, especially at night - fall in love. A pillar of muzzle fire, crimson and green "stars" fly smoothly and disappear into the clouds - beauty! Yes, it's beautiful. But not at the echelon, but at work.
    3. Kok_Ivanov
      Kok_Ivanov 12 March 2023 23: 24
      -1
      According to the MO, your criteria for beauty do not meet modern realities.
  20. svp67
    svp67 11 March 2023 06: 43
    +4
    The biggest drawback of this "monster" is the lack of a little bit of a radar or at least a rangefinder. And it raises the question of how the calculation will receive target designations and commands to open fire
    It is also worth sorting out the place of this installation in battle formations, it is clear that there is not much for her to do at the forefront, since she is very tall and not very mobile. So the protection of the nearest rear.
    1. Prokop_Pork
      Prokop_Pork 11 March 2023 07: 26
      +11
      I must say right away that butting with an ATGM is a dead idea. The ATGM will get it from where its gunner can't even see it.
    2. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 18: 10
      -3
      No radar is needed to spot a drone hovering over a grenade drop position. Infantry will also work on them, also as tracers. Here is your target designation. In general, after the discovery of this product, drones will flatly refuse to fly into the vicinity. What was required in the task ... wink
    3. Disant
      Disant 11 March 2023 21: 03
      0
      svp67 (Sergey)
      It is also worth dealing with the place of this installation in battle formations

      support for assault operations with single fire from behind a hillock (corner) from a couple of kilometers to suppress.
      video from Yemen, how they beat height after height, economically and very effectively using such calibers.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6yuICjvJKo
      14.40 sec, 15.40 sec

      about enemy fire from ATGMs and artillery - everything is clear - in relation to this TVD. as you can see, no options.
  21. Olfred
    Olfred 11 March 2023 06: 45
    -3
    "Motor League" with a 2M-3 ship bandura, armed with two 25-mm cannons,

    As they say, it has no analogue in the world ... But everything is banal from hopelessness, and the lack of specialized equipment, the same terminators, of which there are a couple of dozen for the entire NWO. am
    How will this technique behave on LBS, no protection, no electronic means, etc., etc.? Yes, and on the other side, unfortunately, there are enough intelligent anti-aircraft gunners who simply will not let her drive up to shoot, and will put her out of action with fragments of artillery. I would like to believe that this wunderwaffle will still be useful and effective to some extent hi
    1. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 18: 15
      0
      This product has nothing to do with LBS. His position is near the regiment's shchaba, to guard against drones. Well, if turntables, Su-25s or Thunderbolts (!) appear, they will also shoot back. The sailors have long-standing scores with "Air" th. laughing
  22. Konnick
    Konnick 11 March 2023 06: 51
    +2
    Already the second article about MTLB with this installation, not too much? And if this is for the 155th brigade, then the Marines asked and did not ask the author of the article.

    As it turned out, the vehicles were equipped with ship installations in Vladivostok, and specifically for the 155th Separate Marine Brigade of the Pacific Fleet, whose units are now participating in the battles in the Donbass.

    And what is the name MT-LB? When I studied the device, control and operation of this machine, the name was Light Armored Multi-Purpose Tractor, i.e. MTLB without any hyphens. It looks like the author's main source is Wikipedia.
    1. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 18: 21
      0
      In English literature they write "MT-LB", so the Wikipedians "translate" like that. For them, English is sacred, and Americans are the smartest people in the world! laughing In the same quotes in the same article, look - in the Russian sources of MTLB, in the English MT-LB. But after all, the Americans "invented everything", and the Russians only "copied" laughing
      1. Yaroslav Tekkel
        Yaroslav Tekkel 11 March 2023 21: 31
        +6
        Oh, fighters against cosmopolitanism on the attack?



  23. fa2998
    fa2998 11 March 2023 07: 01
    +1
    Quote: fiberboard
    And the infantry needs a small-caliber rapid-fire cannon, and the more ammunition, the better.

    And how do you imagine it? After shooting the drum, the fighters take a new one and change it upstairs. Under fire. It is impossible to get to the installation there. hi
  24. Stas157
    Stas157 11 March 2023 07: 02
    +3
    . MT-LB with naval gun mounts

    Did you take them to an exhibition in Abu Dhabi??
    Didn't have time to go - too new ...
    It's a pity. And that would definitely be a sensation!
  25. blackGRAIL
    blackGRAIL 11 March 2023 07: 12
    +4
    Nevertheless, Azerbaijan retains its leadership with its MTLB-AM.
    Double tower: main module (rear):
    - launcher for 15 unguided missiles 57 mm C5.
    - automatic grenade launcher AGS-17
    - PKT machine gun 7,62 mm
    The front machine gun turret is equipped with PKT 7,62 machine guns.

    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 11 March 2023 07: 26
      -1
      Indeed, it would be better to install blocks of RSs, and not this insanity with a barbette.
      1. Roma 1977
        Roma 1977 11 March 2023 09: 43
        +2
        How are you going to shoot drones with RSs? Such motorized leagues are not to support infantry, but ersatz anti-aircraft guns.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 11 March 2023 15: 03
          +6
          Quote: Roma-1977
          How are you going to shoot drones with RSs? Such motorized leagues are not to support infantry, but ersatz anti-aircraft guns.

          What are drones? Even the Shells with modern rapid-fire guns and, more importantly, sighting systems, showed low (no) effectiveness. And here is the angle!!! sight and manual (most likely) guidance drive.
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 March 2023 12: 32
      -1
      The purpose of this machine is interesting. Ersatz self-propelled guns? The layout of the towers is interesting. For the same BMPT, it is more effective than what is now. Although, however, in the presence of BMP-T, BMPT is not needed.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 14 March 2023 10: 29
      -1
      Quote from: blackGRAIL
      Nevertheless, Azerbaijan retains its leadership with its MTLB-AM.

      Awotfig! Muromteplovoz drives! smile

      There are no S-1 unguided missiles on the MT-LB M2B5 - but there is a full-fledged module with 2A42, PKTM and AG-17.
  26. Eug
    Eug 11 March 2023 07: 12
    0
    If, with all the shortcomings listed, such a technique has appeared so far in the area, then on the LBS itself, it seems to me:
    - when assaulting agglomerations, infantry really needs constant artillery small (sometimes large) artillery support, from which you can’t really hide behind a wall (something like the Su-76 NPP in the Great Patriotic War). Shilki would be nice, but for some reason they are not;
    - a rather powerful person appeared who quickly responded to the requests of the troops;
    - it would not hurt either the GRAU or the Engineering Directorate to do this (previously arms supplies abroad from army structures went through it) of the General Staff, but the "professionals" clearly do not keep up with the "amateur" creativity.
    Draw your own conclusions..
  27. fa2998
    fa2998 11 March 2023 07: 12
    +5
    Quote: Mordvin77
    For Victory, any means are good. The second life of equipment, otherwise they are rusting at the BT storage bases. Only it is desirable to stick modern optics.

    For Victory, we need good equipment, and not expose our fighters to fire. And then one-trillions "for rearmament", others equipment from the 50-60s. hi hi
  28. maiman61
    maiman61 11 March 2023 07: 22
    -3
    Come on! Whether a soldier is in battle or not, or fire support for such a motorcycle league with two 20 mm cannons is just happiness! We must thank the people who do not sit in a warm office and tap on the clave, but to the best of their ability help our fighters to beat the Banderites! How many sons, fathers and brothers will this motorcycle league save! They will be able to come home, kiss their wives and children!
    1. Ohsetin
      Ohsetin 11 March 2023 10: 06
      +1
      Quote: maiman61
      Whether a soldier is in battle or not, or fire support for such a motorcycle league with two 20 mm cannons is just happiness!

      Only this one-time support: to get to the LBS, best case scenario shoot back and 99% do not return.
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 March 2023 12: 36
      0
      Quote: maiman61
      Come on!

      It's not okay. Also say that a fighter with a halberd is better than without it. Do we have the Middle Ages in the yard? How are we going to fight with NATO with this miracle weapon? Why this nonsense?
  29. Igor1915
    Igor1915 11 March 2023 07: 26
    -3
    As I already wrote a year ago, according to the feedback from the participants, it would be nice to have something like the M61 volcano on the armor. This is some kind of analogue.
  30. Kvakosavrus
    Kvakosavrus 11 March 2023 07: 32
    +11
    Reminds me of playing Civilization backwards.
    That way, by 2033 we will come to horse archers.
  31. Dmitry Zadorozhniy
    Dmitry Zadorozhniy 11 March 2023 07: 38
    +7
    Similar matalygs, only with an open pedestal, were driven through Mariupol. While the column was standing. The guys were shopping for food in the store. We talked to the truck drivers. It turned out that it was a special order from the Marines. Matalyga, the thing is flat. To her, in any pit and a house and shelter. They drove it into a ditch, only one head sticks out. Used to "block the war zone." This quote. At checkpoints, and in ambushes, in the likely direction of the breakthrough "jihad mobiles"
    1. Ohsetin
      Ohsetin 11 March 2023 10: 07
      -3
      But what about protection against copters if they throw tanks through hatches?
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 11 March 2023 10: 53
        -5
        But what about protection against copters if they throw tanks through hatches?
        Watch less commercials from both sides.
      2. stankow
        stankow 11 March 2023 18: 27
        0
        And how will the copter hover over two such barrels, spewing 2x300 25 mm shells per minute? To drop a grenade "into the hatch" you need to hover no more than 50 meters and aim for a long, long time, and more than once. Sweep the poor drone even without shells, one muzzle flame and powder gases ...
        1. Ohsetin
          Ohsetin 12 March 2023 01: 10
          -3
          He fired these 600 shells at one, let's say he shot down, another flew up, a third.
          Here the "hatch" is larger than the tank one, and you can hang higher. And from "VPN" drones, there are no options at all, given no armor.
  32. GRIGORIY76
    GRIGORIY76 11 March 2023 07: 41
    0
    70 percent new technology. At an explosive pace.
    1. Hagakure
      Hagakure 11 March 2023 16: 11
      -1
      In three shifts, in three shifts and according to the SVO plan.
  33. Dmitry_Semashko
    Dmitry_Semashko 11 March 2023 07: 59
    +5
    What did Shoigu say about 80% of modern equipment in the troops?
    1. Hagakure
      Hagakure 11 March 2023 16: 13
      +1
      This is what it is, you don't understand... You can be sure that there are no analogues in the world. There is also a completely domestic product, 100% import substitution.
      Everything is as according to reports: modern - there was no such thing before, and a completely domestic product that has no analogues in the world.
    2. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 18: 29
      -1
      This was before mobilization. Only for the contract army. And when warehouses were opened for the mobilized, the percentage fell. Why are you surprised?
    3. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 11 March 2023 21: 35
      -3
      Didn't lie. A year ago, this technology did not exist. So it's new.
    4. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 March 2023 12: 39
      -1
      Quote: Dmitry_Semashko
      What did Shoigu say about 80% of modern equipment in the troops?

      Something lately, he looks more like a mouse than the Minister of Defense.
  34. acetophenone
    acetophenone 11 March 2023 08: 12
    -1
    I really want to hope that the barbet was somehow extended in length to the bottom of the "motorcycle league", otherwise the center of gravity is at a dangerous height.

    Mechanic, however... lol
  35. the same doctor
    the same doctor 11 March 2023 08: 30
    -2
    Any weapon should be used correctly. If the enemy does not have an ATGM, then even a thirty-four is quite an ultimatum argument on the battlefield. So here. Fight without substituting and everything will be fine. The question is whether there are targets for this cuttlefish that it can destroy "without being substituted." And as for the author's questions about the technical implementation of the hybrid ... Somehow they are very similar to finding out military secrets.
    1. Hagakure
      Hagakure 11 March 2023 16: 16
      +1
      Mmm, how interesting. And who now does not have an ATGM or at least an RPG? KPVT will beat this thing.
      1. Yaroslav Tekkel
        Yaroslav Tekkel 11 March 2023 21: 37
        -2
        KPVT will pierce 3-4 of these pieces, set side to side. And 4 mm armor will be pierced by a PC. Yes, and the machines have good chances.
    2. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 18: 31
      -2
      Quite a lot of targets - drones, turntables, Su-25, Thunderbolt A-10. While the latter is not visible, but will appear. Let them know that they are waiting for him.
  36. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 11 March 2023 08: 48
    +4
    Strange ! Really in Russia "Shilka" and ZSU-57-2 "evaporated"? What to expect now? I think that the Far Eastern crazy people will not stop there! As the Gorbi people taught: The main thing is to start! We are now waiting for more powerful ship installations!


    And there ... Wave your hand, itch your shoulder!


    Load these units on KamAZ and ... let's go, "beauty", ride,,, I haven't driven you for a long time!
    And when I thought, how much "good" in Russia is piled up in the bottom of the barrel ...! Already in the "crotch breath stole"!



    After all, to this good, too, the shells should be "Heap ..."!
    PS From top to bottom: 1/2. 37 mm V-11 mount; 3. 25-mm anti-aircraft gun Z-5; 4. 37-mm SHKVAL installation; 5.ASU-57; 6. ASU-85; 7. SU-100.......
    1. AdAstra
      AdAstra 11 March 2023 10: 48
      +2
      And where did the "Tunguzki" go? It was they who replaced the "Shilki" in the late 80s?
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 11 March 2023 11: 56
        +3
        Actually, there were not very many in the Tungusok troops, as I was told ... and those that are are fighting! (Only here the military correspondents and TV officers, for some reason, do not favor them very much!) recourse request
        1. Hagakure
          Hagakure 11 March 2023 16: 18
          +4
          There are Tunguskas in the NWO zone. I confirm I have seen it.
      2. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 11 March 2023 15: 02
        +2
        "Tungusok" burned decently in Grozny ...
    2. Sergey Aleksandrovich
      Sergey Aleksandrovich 12 March 2023 10: 06
      -1
      The pictures are beautiful, of course. However, this is all due to the fact that the defense industry was not able to offer and manufacture combat modules capable of fighting drones.
      The most promising was Dirivation-Air Defense on the BMP-3 chassis. Such machines are not heard or seen.
      Many remote-controlled combat modules have been proposed, but they are not suitable for drones.
      As it turned out, we needed a large angle of elevation of the barrel, something like an automatic grenade launcher with grapeshot or shrapnel ammunition and a coaxial small-caliber gun or machine gun. And a night sight with other means of detecting drones is required.
    3. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 March 2023 12: 42
      -1
      SU-100 swallow. WOT has a great car. laughing
  37. Sem7929
    Sem7929 11 March 2023 08: 57
    +1
    Most likely the machines are designed to fight drones. In the video (where the photos were taken from) there is a mtlb with a rising bar with mounted shipborne radars.
  38. Fangaro
    Fangaro 11 March 2023 09: 03
    +1
    To spend the funds spent earlier not only on development, but also on production ...
    But they make what they order. They ordered 20 Armats - they will produce it.
    And as it became hot - thunder and lightning poured not on the customer, but on developers and factories. These directors received millions, but did not produce anything ...
    And the customer, represented by the Moscow Region, has ordered a lot of promising and modern equipment since 2000?
    I remember two phrases...

    No money, but you hold on!
    We have a lot of money!

    The first is from the one who calls for the whole world to pile on now in order to achieve the goals that are not supposed to be known about.
    The second - from the one whom everyone probably already cursed. And who once said: "Do you understand that if I do this, everyone will curse me?"
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 March 2023 12: 46
      0
      Quote from Fangaro
      The first is from the one who calls for the whole world to pile on now in order to achieve the goals that are not supposed to be known about.

      Gather them all on all sides of the barricades and put them on these miracle machines, let them fight for their interests, and the battle is for their interests, and not ordinary people. "If the kings fought themselves, that would be a spectacle."
  39. Roman Efremov
    Roman Efremov 11 March 2023 09: 03
    +1
    Why didn't they place the "tower" in the hull on the floor and closer to the center of the hull? It would not stick out so much, would not rock the car when firing, and the weight would be distributed more evenly.
    I understand - a rhetorical question, they did it as quickly and as simply ............................
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 11 March 2023 12: 24
      +2
      Why didn't they place the "tower" in the hull on the floor and closer to the center of the hull?

      It looks like you have never been inside a motorcycle league, there is an engine in the middle, and if on the floor, then there will be no place for calculating the gun. After all, this is a tractor for a gun with a crew and ammunition., Not a tank. And against the DRG on pickup trucks, it can be cheap and cheerful to defend the position of the gun, even without using additional outposts. Saving forces and means in modern combat conditions, when guns are used by gun, and not by battery.
      1. Roman Efremov
        Roman Efremov 11 March 2023 16: 09
        -1
        Yes, I know that the engine is in the middle - but it seems to me that the "tower" could still be moved closer to the center.
  40. VOENOBOZ
    VOENOBOZ 11 March 2023 09: 06
    -14
    There are a lot of right-wingers and whiners on the site, as well as alarmists and mud-slingers, but not as non-patriots of their country. Any article contains such personalities. That's where the lie detector and the indicator of ideology are needed.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 11 March 2023 11: 07
      +9
      Quote: VOENOBOZ
      alarmists and mud-slingers, but not as patriots of their country.

      So join the ranks of the patriots, looking at this water tower on tracks. And I don't feel like it.
      1. runway-1
        runway-1 11 March 2023 20: 22
        -1
        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        Quote: VOENOBOZ
        alarmists and mud-slingers, but not as patriots of their country.

        So join the ranks of the patriots, looking at this water tower on tracks. And I don't feel like it.
        And do not hope! None of this gop-company will go to the LBS, they are fine here too (they have such a profession - to defend their homeland in the rear, talking about excellent strategies and tactics, as well as about the excellent use of junk and homemade products) ...
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 March 2023 12: 48
      0
      Quote: VOENOBOZ
      There are a lot of right-wingers and whiners on the site

      There are a lot of provocateurs and demagogues on the site defending the system that arranged all this shame.
  41. Borodamot
    Borodamot 11 March 2023 09: 30
    +1
    Scrolled in my head for a long time the word why? I think I found the answer - to saturate the battle formations with mobile means of combating unarmored armed pickups and lightly armored fast objects. It is clear that any regular armor will tear a pickup truck, only it cannot be provided in the right place at the moment ... MT-LB is recognized as just a machine and it is easy to dig it in without any crew, and everyone knows how to shoot from this fool Marines.
    1. Ohsetin
      Ohsetin 11 March 2023 10: 09
      0
      All this would have worked in the 20th century, before the massive use of copters and UAVs.
      1. stankow
        stankow 11 March 2023 18: 35
        0
        Just the copters and UAVs were returned to the service of the ICA (small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery). What is the purpose, such is the ammunition, such is the means of delivery.
        1. Ohsetin
          Ohsetin 12 March 2023 01: 07
          -2
          The problem is that you won’t fight off 2-3 copters with the help of the MCA from the middle of the last century. First you need to find them, these are not planes that can be heard and seen for kilometers.
    2. aglet
      aglet 11 March 2023 12: 32
      +1
      "and the marines can shoot from this fool, everyone knows how"
      why? marines are ordinary infantry, they are not armed with ship guns
  42. Konnick
    Konnick 11 March 2023 09: 51
    +9
    Plant them. Dzerzhinsky in Murom is the developer and manufacturer of MTLB. Why the MO does not order new tractors I do not know. But in the 90s, qualified personnel left this plant. I don’t know what the situation is now, but on the plant’s website
    a wide variety of military products is shown. Many with expensive modules, the cost of which is comparable to the cost of a tractor.


    At one time, the director complained in a personal conversation that he could not return personnel to the plant to fulfill an order for the modernization of the BMP, the workers said that they would make this order and again over the fence ...
    1. Hagakure
      Hagakure 11 March 2023 16: 27
      +5
      So I understand salaries are ridiculous now. I saw an article recently. 35 thousand for a worker and 40-50 for an engineer at a defense plant according to the usual schedule. Well, there is also Uralvagonzavod with a sweatshop schedule of 68 working hours a week and 100 thousand salaries. But for such a schedule, this is not enough. Prices are rising and salaries are not matching.
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 12 March 2023 10: 48
        -1
        I know one regional center, and it’s very large, because there have been no engineering and other factory vacancies for 25 years. And a salary for an engineer of 40-50 thousand rubles will be like "manna from heaven." And if vacancies do appear, then the requirements are set such that not every cosmonaut will meet them. Again, professional standards are implemented almost everywhere, which means a disenfranchisement and greatly reduces employment opportunities. Everything is relative.
      2. Bourgeois
        Bourgeois 14 March 2023 16: 12
        0
        This is because it is necessary not to increase salaries, but to reduce price tags.
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 March 2023 12: 53
      +1
      Quote: Konnick
      At one time, the director complained in a personal conversation that he could not return personnel to the plant

      Let's keep complaining. Maybe a miracle will happen and a bunch of young people with work experience and the highest qualifications will suddenly appear on a rogue salary. Dolbodyatly plaintive.
  43. shark507
    shark507 11 March 2023 10: 00
    +2
    Quote: Roman Efremov
    Why didn't they place the "tower" in the hull on the floor and closer to the center of the hull?

    As for closer to the center - hz, but otherwise it was already higher
    Matalyga, the thing is flat. To her, in any pit and a house and shelter. They drove it into a ditch, only one head sticks out. Used to "block the war zone"
  44. Kirill Prozorovski
    Kirill Prozorovski 11 March 2023 10: 01
    +3
    The feeling that a mobile system for combating drones in the rear and no more.
    1. stankow
      stankow 11 March 2023 18: 38
      0
      Is it not enough? How much longer can you endure copters throwing grenades in dugouts, crippling fighters?
      1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
        Sergey Aleksandrovich 12 March 2023 09: 56
        +1
        To deal with grenade-throwing copters, you need a hunting shotgun. And it’s better to attach a night sight to this shotgun. This is the most effective weapon at the moment, while there are no buckshot and shrapnel ammunition, and electronic warfare equipment has dubious effectiveness.
  45. BAI
    BAI 11 March 2023 10: 04
    +3
    As it turned out, the vehicles were equipped with ship installations in Vladivostok, and specifically for the 155th Separate Marine Brigade of the Pacific Fleet, whose units are now participating in the battles in the Donbass.

    So maybe all the same, taking into account combat experience? How did the dill break through the defenses near Izyum and Krasny Liman? On mobile unarmored pickup trucks with machine guns. What to oppose them? And NOTHING! Not in a tank to chase a jeep. But these things, quickly pulled to the place of the breakthrough, will be very effective against pickups.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 11 March 2023 10: 20
      +7
      Browning sews this motorcycle league into all projections, into a tower with a cannon mount too.
    2. aglet
      aglet 11 March 2023 12: 35
      +2
      "What to oppose to them? And NOTHING! Not to chase a jeep in a tank. But these things, quickly pulled to the breakthrough site, will be very effective against pickups"
      do you think mtlb will keep up with a pickup truck? and tanks have guns and machine guns, they don’t need to chase pickups. it’s just that boots interfere with some dancers, at least give them something
    3. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 12 March 2023 12: 56
      0
      Quote: BAI
      Not in a tank to chase a jeep. But these pieces, quickly pulled to the place of the breakthrough, will be very effective against pickups.

      Armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, tanks are no longer effective against pickups, but is this miracle Yudo right on top?
  46. Proctologist
    Proctologist 11 March 2023 10: 22
    +2
    It is easy to beat a recumbent. The car is clearly ugly, made handicraft, there are obvious questions about weight distribution and dimensions.

    But is she really that bad? in practice? ..

    In my opinion, an excellent (quickly implemented and delivered to the front in iron, and not in cartoons) alternative to the "Pantsir" in the form of object-based air defense against the latest types of threats, namely, semi-handicraft piston drones and quadrocopters. It is better than the "Shell" in that it will stand where the "Shell" was not at all. And the fact that it will allow you to move the "shells" to where they are needed, where there are threats of attacks from the air, not only by drones.

    1. donavi49
      donavi49 11 March 2023 10: 46
      +3
      There is most likely a manual drive (as indicated in the article). On a manual drive, it is not even an alternative to the ZU-23-2.

      Aiming at the iron sight.


      The shells are only contact detonation (that is, you need to hit with a land mine for it to work, there is no remote or radio fuse).

      In this configuration, its niche is to hollow out the building, to suppress the firing points on the floors of the panels.

      By the way, without water cooling (and it’s definitely not there) - it will be problematic to shoot long bursts at the building according to the principle, rolled out, fired 130 shells and rolled away. Although they made a lot of trunks for these machine guns.
      1. Galleon
        Galleon 11 March 2023 12: 29
        +1
        Quote: donavi49
        fired 130 rounds and rolled away

        Ek, you have enough ... It’s good there if 40-50 shells go into the ammunition tray. In general, it’s scary to sit down on this open place of the gunner sober.
        1. Oleg812spb
          Oleg812spb 11 March 2023 15: 22
          +3
          box-shaped round magazines with 65 rounds per barrel
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 14 March 2023 10: 37
        0
        Quote: donavi49
        There is most likely a manual drive (as indicated in the article).

        There is manual guidance in any way - either directly with flywheels, or with a hydraulic drive control knob. This does not play a special role, since the aiming still proceeds according to the data issued by the biological SUAO Brain Mk.I + 2 x Eyeball Mk.I and the ring sight. And when firing with a ring sight (from a remote column), even the AK-630 puts shells "somewhere there."
    2. cold wind
      cold wind 11 March 2023 11: 13
      +8
      Quote: Proctologist
      alternative to "Shell"

      You don't really understand what you are talking about. With 2M-3, you can only get into Drone by accident. It will be used as an infantry fighting vehicle.
      Let me remind you how much more advanced Shells shoot at a large drone.
      1. Proctologist
        Proctologist 11 March 2023 12: 08
        -5
        it was necessary to write "forced alternative". I understand everything about manual guidance and contact detonation. Yes, this is not a Cheetah. But you also need to shoot down a cardboard drone, flying not even at subsonic, but at moped speed.

        If it is supposed to be used as a BMPT, then yes, trouble.
        1. Hagakure
          Hagakure 11 March 2023 16: 33
          +2
          What the hell is a "forced alternative"? This is a coffin for the crew and crew. This is a place for the quickest resting place for Russian soldiers with the help of enemy quadrics, that's all it is. Kapets. This is the nonsense of another elderly general or colonel
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. stankow
        stankow 11 March 2023 18: 43
        -1
        And this drone flew at a speed of 100+ km / h at a distance of 4000 meters. The question device will shoot at hovering copters at a distance of 50-500 meters. Not many grenades to throw with such a "company" nearby ...
      4. Proctologist
        Proctologist 11 March 2023 21: 07
        0
        I repeat that as a means of air defense - as the videos with these homemade products in the same railway echelon with the Arrows say - this is a good solution against primitive low-speed drones.

        I saw a video where the Ukrainian TRO praised the RPD (Degtyarev, with disks) as a good solution against shaheeds - high accuracy and sufficiency of ammunition to shoot down a cardboard drone.
        I am convinced that similar air defense systems should correspond to the threats of the 1940s level. If with quadruple "maxims" or from a DShK it was possible to shoot down a Messerschmitt, an order of magnitude more difficult target, why is this installation worse against a simpler target ?!
  47. AdAstra
    AdAstra 11 March 2023 10: 34
    +1
    And this "having no analogues" at the exhibition and Abu Dhabi was shown or embarrassed?
  48. Blue fox
    Blue fox 11 March 2023 10: 48
    +6
    It’s interesting when some authors write about the need to prepare now for the massive use of UAVs by the enemy, while others, seeing albeit semi-handicraft, but real and already supplied to the troops installations for working in this direction, “monsters” and “long-suffering motorcycle leagues” call them names. And let the truth be somewhere in the middle, but there is still a difference to hit from two 25-mm UAVs, and not from the AK-74, as well as scaring the enemy from a forest camp 2 km away is more convenient from this, and not from RMB and even Korda. After all, LBS, whatever one may say, is very long, and in each direction the more equipment, the better. So, I think you need to be more careful with labeling.
  49. Mikhail Maslov
    Mikhail Maslov 11 March 2023 10: 51
    -2
    I think it happened like this: an order was received from the top to send to the war to replenish losses in equipment, and even combat-ready and meet the requirements of the war, that is, to arm and provide. And of course, they didn’t give anything. they blinded from what it was, no matter how absurd it sounded. They reported to the top, the order was executed. That's the whole oil painting. But the guys will have to foul language both the authorities and the Ministry of Defense for such equipment and they will be right. The Marines are now a strike force, they are storming the fortifications, and they are being supplied with rubbish. Here is the Wagner with shells and the offensive near Ugledar.
  50. Paldiski
    Paldiski 11 March 2023 11: 11
    +3
    And laughter and sin, God forgive me, because there are so many combat modules created for MTLB ....
    1. Nikanor1993
      Nikanor1993 11 March 2023 14: 49
      +3
      There is already a lot of folk art, the poor fellow-soldier in the plywood tower causes concern.