The special operation breeds monsters: our MT-LBs with naval gun mounts

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The special operation breeds monsters: our MT-LBs with naval gun mounts

As you know, almost any military conflict is the debut of handicraftsmen who repeat over and over again, bringing new models of field modifications of military equipment to the mountain in order to eliminate its shortcomings or expand combat capabilities. True, it doesn't always work out well. However, what is there cannot be taken away.

The special military operation in Ukraine was no exception in this regard: all sorts of “modernizations” appear both from the Ukrainian side and from our side, which we have repeatedly written about and even shown. But in this case, it seems that handicraft creativity was trampled down and trampled down already by factory manufacturers, who rather shocked the public with their work in the face of MT-LB with 2M-3 ship installations equipped with twin 25-mm automatic guns.



Originally from Vladivostok


Still, as has already been said, handicrafts are already familiar in a special military operation so much that each new product of its activity is perceived as something ordinary. Well, once again, a “visor” was welded onto the tank, dynamic protection units were hung over any measure, or a truck was surrounded in a circle with steel sheets. As they say, in an effort to protect yourself to the maximum, no impulses are alien. Yes, and those same long-suffering "motorcycle leagues" that MT-LB are regularly modified with various machine-gun and cannon mounts.


But the “motorcycle league” with the 2M-3 ship bandura, armed with two 25-mm cannons, at first even seemed like some kind of fake, or at least a one-time action from radical field designers. However, for the first time, the same point of view was also held in many military communities in social networks and forums. But no, the monster turned out to be still serial, albeit with the prefix "fine", and by no means handicraft.

As it turned out, the vehicles were equipped with ship installations in Vladivostok, and specifically for the 155th Separate Pacific Marine Brigade. fleet, whose units are currently participating in the battles in the Donbass.

2M-3 in naval reserves, including those of the Pacific Ocean, has accumulated since deep Soviet times, if not in excess, then clearly in sufficient quantities - since the fifties of the last century, many projects of combat and auxiliary ships have been equipped with installations, and even on Today, they have not lost their relevance yet. And given that shells for them are also literally in bulk, the rationalization proposal for equipping them with tracked vehicles seemed interesting to someone from the command.


It is difficult to judge what this very interest was based on: something suggests that the reason was not the combat experience gained during the special military operation in Ukraine, but the banal need for specialized fire weapons. But, as they say, we have what we have.

Moreover, although the 2M-3 is originally a ship-based means of self-defense against surface and air targets at a slant range of up to three kilometers, the very fact of its transplantation to land vehicles is not limited to the current "motorcycle leagues".

Art. installation on an armored train

Gun mount on an armored train

Thus, there is evidence that similar ersatz on MT-LB were used by the soldiers of the Azerbaijani army during the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, as well as the military armies of President Bashar al-Assad in the civil war in Syria.

Also, 2M-3 in the 60-70s for the purpose of air defense were installed on Soviet armored trains in the regions of the USSR bordering China. And in the GDR, IFA W50 trucks were equipped with this small-caliber artillery system - again, with the intention of creating a mobile anti-aircraft gun.

2M-3 on the chassis of the IFA W50 truck

2M-3 on the chassis of the IFA W50 truck

What is 2M-3?


The appearance of this small-caliber gun mount does not need a special description: in fact, it consists of a fixed barbette - a cylindrical steel "glass" - on which there is a rotating open tower of complex geometric shape with an inclined arrangement of armor plates in the frontal part.


Armor, by the way, cannot boast of a particularly large thickness - only up to four millimeters, so even the status of exclusively anti-fragmentation for it in modern conditions is a stretch. Such a serious drawback was dictated not only by the design features and requirements of the project, but also by the desire of the designers to make the 2M-3 a universal contraption with a relatively small mass, which could be installed even on a civilian ship.

All that it can withstand: small-caliber ammunition fragments and light rifle bullets weapons, and that's not all. But it weighs one and a half tons, which, taking into account its layout and equipment, is not so much, and the carrier itself in the person of MT-LB is not much better protected.

Inside the movable turret there is a twin artillery system in the form of two 25-mm belt-fed 110-PM automatic cannons (box-shaped round magazines for 65 rounds), created on the basis of the 84-KM anti-aircraft gun from the Great Patriotic War and providing a rate of fire in the range of 270–300 shots per minute per barrel. Their ammunition load includes two main types of shots: with armor-piercing tracers and fragmentation-incendiary tracers with an initial flight speed of about 900 meters per second.

The barrels are air-cooled, but during the reloading process, it is possible to run water through them. However, this is hardly guaranteed on MT-LB.


To the left of the machine guns is the gunner's place. Of the sighting devices at his disposal there is only a KMT-25 annular foreshortening sight and nothing more. Yes, yes, the same antediluvian - by today's standards - round sight, which, in spite of everything, does not lose its relevance.

To aim the gun mount at the target, the gunner has, as it is now fashionable to call it, a kind of joystick. If you turn it to the right or to the left, the tower will start moving in the corresponding direction. Up or down - guns will move vertically. However, there are no buttons for making shots on it, unfortunately. This is done with a pedal under the gunner's foot.

View of the 2M-3 gun mount from the stern. On the left, in the place of the gunner, you can observe the ring sight.

View of the 2M-3 gun mount from the stern. On the left, at the gunner's place, you can observe an annular sight.

The actuators of the hydraulic system located in the turret and turret barbette are responsible for providing these maneuvers with fire, with the help of which the horizontal rotation of the installation is carried out at a constant speed of 40 degrees per second, the vertical guidance of the guns in the range from -10 to +85 degrees, as well as the final stage of their reloading - cocking. Although, in the event of a hydraulic failure, completely manual guidance is also possible, which, of course, affects the effectiveness of the fire in the most unpleasant way.

Some nuances


Still, the fleet for 2M-3 is a native element, therefore, when it comes to transferring it to the MT-LB chassis, a number of questions arise that require at least some kind of solution, because otherwise this whole monster will even be more or less tolerable "gantrak" does not pull, from the word at all.

First of all, we are talking about, to put it mildly, not a very good weight balance: the published footage clearly shows that the stern of the MT-LB, where the gun system is installed, sank in order. It is understandable - 2M-3 weighs one and a half tons, so the suspension of the "motorcycle" from such a load, in any case, will not say thanks to the creators of this ersatz.


At the same time, there are no details yet regarding the foundation for the 2M-3 - I really want to hope that the barbette has somehow been extended in length to the bottom of the "motorbike", otherwise the center of gravity is at a dangerous height. This threatens with the fact that the car can tritely collapse on its side or back itself when overcoming even not the steepest bumps, and, unfortunately, there are enough of them on the fronts of the special operation.

Also noteworthy is the electrical part.

There is some feeling that the hydraulics of the 2M-3 were abandoned and switched to fully manual guidance, since this is the simplest solution that does not require labor, but predictably affects the effectiveness of firing. Simply because in the case of retaining hydraulic drives, it would be necessary to tinker with the power supply of the electric motor of the hydraulic system pump.

The MT-LB generator produces a voltage of up to 30 volts with a power of up to about 3,7 kilowatts, and the ship’s installation can “eat” the outlet voltage that is quite regular for us and consumes power from the on-board network of 0,95 kilowatts. The only question is converters and other electrical equipment that can start the hydraulics of an art installation. That is, the task is quite solvable, but have they taken up this?

I would also like to say a few words about loading automatic guns, but it doesn’t make much sense: magazines weighing half a centner are inconvenient to carry both through the roof of the 2M-3 tower, and from under the barbette, if such a possibility was provided. And so and so - it's very difficult. In combat conditions, in a moving car, and even in a limited space, to operate with such weights ... The occupation is not very attractive.

How will they apply?


Unfortunately, the armed forces, and we are talking not only about Russian, but also foreign, the structure as a whole is very inflexible, therefore, each type of military equipment is assigned its own strictly defined tasks, although sometimes this stereotype successfully fades into the background on the ground.

Nevertheless tank other tasks, except for tank ones, are not yet attributed. As well as infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers. However, where this Pacific monster on a tracked chassis will join is not yet very clear, simply because it should not be. This is not a regular unit, but a first-class ersatz.

On various sites and forums, this MT-LB with a ship-mounted gun mount has already been credited with the capabilities of an almost cheap alternative to the Terminator BMPT, especially mentioning its huge gun depression angles - they say, 85 degrees will allow you to reach all floors in the city, and fire in the field from two 25-mm trunks, it will crumble everything that is possible.

And there are no questions about the artillery part: a twin of two 25-mm machine guns really provides a monstrous density of fire for ground vehicles, and the aiming angles seem to be good. Just what to do with a turret installation open from above, absolutely no armor and dubious cross-country ability? And this is without taking into account the process of reloading guns on a tracked chassis, which is too problematic to describe without a mat.

Still, as a mobile fire system capable of covering the enemy with a hail of fragmentation shells from a relatively long distance (within a direct shot), the MT-LB with 2M-3 looks preferable. And we already have experience of this: "motorcycle leagues" with the ZU-23-2 have been performing this function for a long time, but the shooter is practically not protected in any way, and here the rotating tower is also available. It remains to be hoped that this contraption will not be tried on for the role of an infantry fighting vehicle or an armored personnel carrier.

Well, as a free judgment, you can see that the 2M-3 is primarily an anti-aircraft gun. Without external support, of course, she will not be able to fully express herself, since from the observation systems she has at her disposal only the eyes of the gunner himself. However, in the presence of external target designation, at least in azimuth, which can be provided by both radar and infrared means of detecting air targets, its effectiveness increases many times over. Which, in fact, is ensured in the organized air defense system of a warship.

Even the presence of some Strela-10 can make a conventional MT-LB battery with 2M-3 a more or less tolerable barrage armada, capable - in conditions of acceptable visibility - to fight at least low-speed and low-altitude drones-kamikaze, but so far it is written with a pitchfork on the water.
  • Edward Perov
  • dzen.ru / arsenal-info.ru / wikipedia.org / t.me/boxwar01
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292 comments
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  1. +19
    March 11 2023
    Not from a good life, apparently, this instance was invented. We will look at the results of the application, if they show of course.
    1. -7
      March 11 2023
      On lack of fish, and MTLB-pike .. As they say, first you need to look .. then be surprised and refine .. The idea is very good. It would be more rational to distribute the weight of the barbette, strengthen the shoulder strap for this tower, make the installation partially immersed in the Metel's hull and a completely adequate machine would turn out. hi for mobilized rati in wartime.
      1. +1
        March 11 2023
        quite an adequate car will turn out.
        There will be a Push-Pull if you attach a second tower, and so the Humpbacked Horse. You don’t need to go on the attack with this, but to secure the column with l / s during relocations, it will do.
        1. +2
          March 11 2023
          Definitely stationary, but mobile installation against drones. To protect the shchaba regiment. In which case, how else to bite off the infantry and infantry fighting vehicles.
          1. +7
            March 11 2023
            Quote: stankow
            Definitely stationary, but mobile installation against drones.

            Exactly . Looks like the Pacific Fleet with "Shilki" lack or complete absence. And the Marines fight (like the Airborne Forces, for example) exclusively on standard equipment. Against drones, this is exactly the kind of air defense that is needed - ZPU and ZAU on a highly passable chassis. So, although it is an ersatz, it is fast and from what is in the warehouses of the Navy.
            But the quality of the work of the shatabs ... is amazing. Especially the work of the General Staff. To this day, in the NWO, the Airborne Forces are fighting on ... their own standard equipment !!!
            On BMD!!!!!
            They are fighting on the BMD !!!
            On duralumin tins!! Which are flashed with an ordinary bullet.
            Which are only for parachute landing ... show off and movement ... But not for stubborn battles in a positional war. We have the best human material in the Airborne Forces and MPs of the Navy !! And it under the duralumin pseudo-"armor" ?? Aren't our generals fighting too wastefully? Or transfer the MP and Airborne Forces to the SVO at least to conventional infantry fighting vehicles ?? Which even bullets of ordinary calibers hold ... fragments are light ..
            And the BMP-1 \ 2 in reinforced armor with additional armor plates, also not particularly visible.
            In a YEAR+ CBO!
            So the Marines of the Fleet ended up on their armored personnel carriers ... without proper anti-aircraft cover ... and the headquarters do not care - "you have your own standard weapons, so fight them."
            So they get out of the situation on what is. Fortunately, the Fleet has enough of such modules in warehouses. Although in the photographs there are motorcycle leagues with both DShK and ZPU.
            ... Apparently in the Navy they looked much better at their modules in warehouses if instead of "Shilok" such ersatz went to the troops.

            Quote: stankow
            how it bites off on infantry and infantry fighting vehicles.

            Well, it's just out of hopelessness. There is nothing for them to do on the front end, but in the rear in the event of a breakthrough, yes, everything will shoot there.
            1. +2
              March 11 2023
              This model of weapons, of course, was not invented from a good life, and of course, when creating it, the combat experience of the heroic 155th brigade and the realities with the supply of armored vehicles and especially shells for it were taken into account. It is quite possible that the Pacific Fleet can supply a lot of shells for this technique, and such a self-propelled booth will be able to at least shoot at the enemy, unlike other armored vehicles for which there are no shells. And it is possible that it is also used as air defense, with which there are also big problems. In any case, the Marines know better, although it shows the state in which our government has driven our army.
              1. +4
                March 12 2023
                Quote: ramzay21
                And it is possible that it is also used as air defense, with which there are also big problems.

                Mainly and exclusively for the sake of providing air defense. For the highest saturation of the enemy’s combat formations with strike and reconnaissance UAVs put not only our troops on the LBS, not only close ones, but also operational rear areas under the blow of long-range high-precision enemy systems. These UAVs can be fought mainly by high saturation of their orders with machine-gun and cannon air defense systems. There should be quite a lot of ZPU and ZU-2-23 in warehouses and storage bases, but they are not self-propelled, and ZU-2-23 have long been used as fire reinforcement. And the Fleet of such systems generally had a miserable amount - their air defense systems were mainly on ships. But on the other hand, there are enough MTLBs and long-removed, but serviceable combat modules of 25 mm caliber for storage. and a lot of shells for them, which are GENERALLY not in demand anywhere else. So they hastily blinded from what was. It's just that there should be a lot of such anti-aircraft systems ... a lot. For their range is small, and UAVs fly everywhere.
                1. 0
                  March 12 2023
                  Mainly and exclusively for the sake of providing air defense. For the highest saturation of the enemy’s combat formations with strike and reconnaissance UAVs put not only our troops on the LBS, not only close ones, but also operational rear areas under the blow of long-range high-precision enemy systems.

                  Most likely it is!
            2. +1
              March 12 2023
              By itself, MTLB is a very good car so far. And, on its basis, you can do a lot. But not just that. On the face of another window dressing and cutting money, unfortunately.
              1. +1
                March 12 2023
                Quote: bandabas
                By itself, MTLB is a very good car so far. And, on its basis, you can do a lot. But not just that. On the face of another window dressing and cutting money, unfortunately.

                On the face of the solution of the issue in emergency mode. They were assembled at the Pacific Fleet (!!) from what was in the warehouses and bases of the Navy. If the MO doesn't catch mice, the ingenuity kicks in.
                There is a very urgent need for air defense systems on machine gun and cannon modules, or even from DShK on turrets. So they are molded from what they have and what BC is enough for. 25 mm. many and nowhere else are used, 14,5 are used little. And the warehouses are full.
            3. +1
              March 14 2023
              Quote: bayard
              ... Apparently in the Navy they looked much better at their modules in warehouses if instead of "Shilok" such ersatz went to the troops.

              This is the fleet - there is nothing preserved in the warehouses. At the Northern Fleet for "Peter" at one time they found a DShKM on regular pedestals.

              Quote: bayard
              Against drones, this is exactly the kind of air defense that is needed - ZPU and ZAU on a highly passable chassis.

              And here is a garden vegetable. Against UAVs, first of all, a detection and guidance system is needed - that is, a full-fledged SUAO. Plus a stable chassis.
              And this is a miracle with manual guidance (even a path with a power drive, if any), an annular sight and buildup when firing (the lever on our AU chassis is so elevated) is only suitable for scaring off especially nervous drone operators .
      2. +20
        March 11 2023
        It would be more rational to distribute the weight of the barbette, strengthen the shoulder strap for this tower, make the installation partially immersed in the Metel's hull
        ... And install a 180-mm caliber gun from a Project 26 cruiser, that's a "cruising tank" for you, right? laughing wink
      3. +10
        March 11 2023
        "The idea is pretty good"
        there is no idea there - I blinded him from what was. decks don’t weld a piece on a motorcycle league there? remove the trunks, make a machine specifically for mtlb - it won’t be much longer and more expensive, and the cheburashka will turn out to be quite decent. It’s another matter, there is no one to think, and it’s very urgent, and that’s what happened. As always. how to mask such a tower, or bury it, did those "designers" think? the torque from such a shoulder will roll the platform on any slope and at any speed, and it will be possible to shoot only after leveling laughing
        1. 0
          March 11 2023
          Quote: aglet
          and it will be possible to shoot only after leveling

          or pull off a stabilized platform from the ship, which is already there
        2. +8
          March 11 2023
          Well, actually, judging by TV, small-caliber anti-aircraft guns are mostly placed on the bodies of medium-sized trucks, and without any protection. At the same time, their height does not seem to be lower. Against the background of body artillery, the naval tower looks no worse. And convenience and effect - this will be said by the front, and not by us.
        3. +3
          March 11 2023
          And on the ship, when rolling, how does it shoot "with alignment"? :) There is a hydraulic drive, it will shoot at any slope. But not at "any speed", it will not shoot into motion. This mobileAnd not mobile installation.
      4. 0
        March 12 2023
        Such an installation, due to the engine in the center of the car, will not work to move to the front. The T-55, if preserved with this installation as an anti-drone and possibly as an anti-missile (various "bouncing guns") will be in place, but again .. Armor attachment so that 55 mm machine guns are not they took meters from 400 .. no one will bother.
    2. +47
      March 11 2023
      Here they are breakthrough technologies that have no analogues in the world! Based on new physical principles from the middle of the last century.... belay
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +17
          March 11 2023
          "masterpiece", a direct way to Abu Dhabi... From our country, dozens of companies and organizations participate in IDEX 2023, and hundreds of various samples and exhibits are presented at their stands.
      2. +17
        March 11 2023
        why not upgrade the Tsar Cannon from the Kremlin?
        1. +8
          March 11 2023
          Can. But for her then the royal calculation is needed.
          Although I have 4-5 people in mind ...
          1. -1
            March 11 2023
            And not only you +! They have a place there, bring the cores!
      3. +3
        March 11 2023
        Here they are breakthrough technologies that have no analogues in the world! Based on new physical principles from the middle of the last century .... belay

        The problem is that no one in the world is 100% independent in components for complex equipment. Military representatives at enterprises sabotage the use of imported components by all means. They begin to force them to issue and sign decisions for use with an insane number of signatures, where someone will definitely refuse to sign it, and usually this is an officer in uniform who knows nothing about technology. And either there are no domestic ones at all, or the delivery time is a year or more. As a result, it will end with the fact that domestic manufacturers were forbidden to put a Chinese chip in a domestic rocket, and then they jump for joy that they managed to buy a rocket with much worse characteristics from Iran or China. Something like this.
        Yesterday the news slipped that China agreed to sell weapons to Russia. Those. You can buy a microcircuit there Nizya, but you can buy a rocket !!!!
        1. 0
          March 11 2023
          So be it. Stuff the missile warhead with microchips and sell it to Russia.
        2. 0
          March 11 2023
          "That is, you can buy a microcircuit there, but you can buy a rocket !!!!"
          so a microcircuit costs a dozen fen, and a rocket costs thousands of yuan. invisible hand of the market
      4. +10
        March 11 2023
        Quote from Uncle Lee
        These are breakthrough technologies.

        This is an experience. To overcome the shell hunger, you can apply the Syrian experience.

        1. 0
          March 11 2023
          "you can apply the Syrian experience"
          perhaps they are already riveted somewhere ...
        2. 0
          March 11 2023
          Help the front! Hand over your gas bottle!
      5. +20
        March 11 2023
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        Here they are breakthrough technologies that have no analogues in the world! Based on new physical principles from the middle of the last century.... belay

        Victory at the front is forged in the rear!
        The people, as they see it, will trample such a miracle weapon into the military registration and enlistment offices.
        1. +10
          March 11 2023
          Special operation spawns monsters...


          "The sleep of reason produces monsters" (c)
          P.S. This miracle weapon was made according to those. task from MO?
          1. 0
            March 11 2023
            "PS. Was this miracle weapon made according to the technical assignment from the Ministry of Defense?"
            clear stump! if serially, and at a military plant
          2. +5
            March 11 2023
            No one was given a job. It didn’t go through R&D, manufacturers-designers have nothing to do with it. Both the installation and the MTLB were in the warehouses of the Pacific. It is easy to weld in a rembase. Here he is fighting. Years would be pulled through the Moscow Region ...
        2. +3
          March 11 2023
          Correctly noted! Only such technology can be of interest to young people.
      6. +1
        March 11 2023
        you can also recommend Shmetello machine guns, you take a dozen mosquitoes in one frame, you rigidly fasten a single descent and goyda ((in Port Arthur they wrote that they used even all this wild deja vu causes
        1. +5
          March 11 2023
          Quote from Mazunga
          you can also recommend Shmetello machine guns, you take a dozen mosquitoes in one frame, you rigidly fasten a single descent and goyda ((in Port Arthur they wrote that they used even all this wild deja vu causes
          Machine gun Shmetylo.
          Rifles were used to make it. "Hanyang 88" (aka Mannlicher M1888) chambered for 8x52mmR
          It was necessary to use just such rifles because of the longitudinally sliding bolt, which did not require rotation along the axis by hand - the bolt itself rotated during movement and locked the barrel.
          Where did Hanyang 88 come from in Port Arthur? - from the warehouses left from the time when the city was part of the Qing Empire China) until 1898.
          By the way ...
          The contract for the lease of Port Arthur and Da-lian-wang was concluded with the "small" assistance of bribes ... 500000 rubles Li Hongzhang bully и 250000 rubles Chang Yinghuang bully
          And when Russian troops entered the city of Port Arthur, the local garrison of the Chinese army (20000 bayonets) left the city in 1 day, but only after giving a bribe to General Song Qing bully 100000 rubles and General Ma Yukun bully 50000 rubles... Leaving 59 guns and ammunition in the city (the rifles remained there)
          Bribes were given gold и silver coin, not banknotes.
          hi
          1. -1
            March 12 2023
            definitely handsome))) listen, maybe we just adopted Chinese best practices?)))
      7. The comment was deleted.
      8. -7
        March 11 2023
        Not "breakthrough", but "breakthrough" drones tear apart.
    3. 0
      March 11 2023
      I think so, such an experimental installation among the paratroopers was tested in advance and obviously turned out to be effective for a number of tasks. Somewhere back in May, something similar slipped in the commercials. She herself stood in a dug recess and only a tower towered above the surface, which fired.
      In addition, apparently hitting the hull of the vehicle and depriving it of mobility allows the gunners to survive and continue to fire from the turret. Surely, additional armor sheets were welded around the perimeter of the turret to withstand bullets from a large-caliber machine gun. Well, and further. They will most likely be installed as long-term firing points in the second echelon in the Zaparozhye or Kherson directions. But in the forefront they will not be for sure. In general, our ship gun mounts are very effective and trouble-free with a decent firing range.
      1. 0
        March 11 2023
        "In general, our ship gun mounts are very effective and trouble-free with a decent firing range."
        Well, yes. but this is if used on a ship laughing
        1. +1
          March 11 2023
          And if they took it off the ship and held it in the warehouse, then what, the initial speed, range, reach in height drops? Does the earth prevent the propellant charge from throwing the projectile?
          1. +5
            March 11 2023
            If they removed it from the ship, it means there is no hydraulics, manual guidance and reloading, no water cooling of the barrels, the firing platform is less stable, especially if you fire at an angle to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle ...
    4. +15
      March 11 2023
      She will not have any results of the application. If they don’t tear it with artillery, then they will shower it with VOGs from copters. Utilization of equipment and manpower, that's all the application.
      1. -13
        March 11 2023
        Just this product is against copters spitting VOGs and all sorts of other rubbish. Try hovering at 50 meters and start aiming. To tear them into plastic shreds with powder gases alone, and there are still 2x300 shells per minute ... Drone operators in the vicinity with a radius of 2 km will not even enter. The battlefield OP, together with the shab, will be covered.
        1. -1
          March 12 2023
          These 2x300 will run out very quickly, and LBS will not be able to reload. So, they will butcher like a god chyuryupakha on the way out.
        2. 0
          March 14 2023
          Just this product is against copters spitting VOGs and all sorts of other rubbish. Try hovering at 50 meters and start aiming.

          What long-sightedness should an operator have in order to view drones at a distance of 50 m in a ring sight?
    5. AAK
      +3
      March 11 2023
      I don’t know, the 25-mm is clearly not a running caliber now, so I can’t imagine the state of ammunition for this “wunderwaffe” after 35-40 years of storage, in my opinion, for the purposes of combating UAVs in the near zone, it was easier to make a makeshift alteration a paired or quad ZPU 14,5mm KPVT, or ZSU-23-2 - on these products with ammunition it is much easier, the rate of fire is higher and the mass is much less, in addition to the same ZPU there are optical and collimator sights. Both products have swivel mechanisms, it is enough to make armor screens at the gunner's and loader's positions. Yes, but where are our "Shilka" - "Tunguska", for the fight against drones - that's it, probably again big stars with a practical mind have significant problems ...
      1. +2
        March 11 2023
        There seems to be a lack of running calibers, or supplies delivered in a strange way. Ammunition consumption, especially in urban battles, is large. I believe, somewhere around 150-250 small-caliber shells for each enemy shooter who has settled in any building, even in a high-rise building, even in a barn.
        Someone at the top, who is in charge of supplying ammunition, behaves in an inexplicable way, not comparing the supply with the intensity of the fighting, or vice versa, comparing it well.........!?
        And in the case of using the "marine" caliber of 25 mm, you can bypass the dependence on strange suppliers, guided by unknown, hard to explain motives.
    6. +15
      March 11 2023
      Of the sighting devices at his disposal, there is only a KMT-25 annular foreshortening sight and nothing more. Yes, yes, the same antediluvian - by today's standards - a round sight, which, despite everything, does not lose its relevance .

      I wonder if this concerned Western equipment supplied to Ukraine, then what epithets would be awarded to such a sight, which is in "Western" weapons? "Worthless"? "Long obsolete"? "Useless"? "They put it just not to throw it away"? ....
    7. +5
      March 11 2023
      It reminds of the times of Port Arthur .... Either they put torpedo tubes in defense, then they rolled mines from a hill onto yaps, then they put five mosquitoes on a machine, then they riveted mortars from 47mm barrels ...
      What was it all from? From the lack of machine guns and mortars with howitzers, in "progressive" bulk-crunchy .... Even Keggorn mortars, 50 pieces, were locked up ... Sample of the 17th century ...
      I really do not want this to continue in our time, with our army. It is clear that you can’t foresee everything, but handicraft Kulibin handicrafts are no match for similar industrial designs, and if something has shown itself well, immediately put it into production in the defense industry!
      1. +9
        March 11 2023
        Quote: Arbeiternegast
        Reminds me of Port Arthur...

        And the ending will be the same. They will only expose him with another victory.
        1. -6
          March 11 2023
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Quote: Arbeiternegast
          Reminds me of Port Arthur...

          And the ending will be the same. They will only expose him with another victory.

          Alexey, do not panic, everything will be fine for us.
          1. AAK
            +4
            March 12 2023
            For whom exactly? No remarkableness on our part ... All the joy that our losses, according to military correspondents and individual officials, are much lower than those of Bandera ... otherwise, either marking time (in the absence of command operational-tactical skill, even about operational-strategic we don’t speak from the word at all ...), or frontal "squeezing" ...
        2. +1
          March 12 2023
          And the ending will be the same. Only expose him with another victory

          I really would not like ... Such a finale ...
          1. 0
            March 12 2023
            Quote: Arbeiternegast
            I really would not like ... Such a finale ...

            Judging by the flow of this NWO, I'm afraid it's only a matter of time. What's even scarier is that it won't stop there.
    8. +4
      March 11 2023
      I’m now reviewing reports from Army 2022 there with a gravitsapa on a hump, well, they didn’t show it on new physical principles, apparently even for ARMY2020, ENTA gravitsapa was a hefty secret, but seriously, from decent words, only prepositions You and Na
      1. 0
        March 12 2023
        here it’s more likely not even an excuse, but the place of the estate!
    9. +3
      March 11 2023
      Life is not to blame. If you read carefully. This weapon and ammunition for it in large quantities. So why not use? And use factory resources for the benefit of the production of modern weapons. Moreover, there is a shortage of specialists in those profiles.
      1. -7
        March 11 2023
        By the way, the top of the tower is closed. So you can’t hit with a copter.
        Yes, and a sighting device, I think not a circle with a crosshair, but something newer. But once they tried it and they showed effectiveness, well, why not use it .. And the rate of fire of these guns is such that it cuts lightly armored equipment like an autogenous metal.
        Although there, instead of cannons, heavy machine guns are installed, if anyone noticed. But still - two modern large-caliber ones with a good firing range and with a supply of cartridges inside the mmamalyga and the ability to quickly maneuver is also not very bad. To combat UAVs and infantry, and used in secondary areas, it is also bad.
        1. 0
          March 11 2023
          Quote: svoroponov
          And the rate of fire of these guns is such that it cuts lightly armored equipment like metal with autogenous.

          Is it 300 rounds per minute then, on the barrel?
      2. +1
        March 12 2023
        I also think that THIS is better than NOTHING. if there weren’t this ersatz, then there would be nothing at all either for air defense, or for covering the defenders, or for fire support. Moreover, the thing comes out cheap - from gathering dust and unclaimed installations and a bunch of "motorcycle leagues". Naturally, it has a lot of minuses, but it will do its job. Put such a thing in a hole, and try to approach it. And there is no need for her to rush across the fields, behind the attackers or on the defensive.
    10. +8
      March 11 2023
      It has been going on for more than a year, and instead of new equipment, old Soviet stocks are going to the front that they did not have time to sell to the Papuans in Africa. During this time, in 1941-1942, under Stalin, thousands of new tanks, armored vehicles, artillery and millions of shells were built at factories. All these armats, terminators, which the Kurgans advertised did not live up to expectations, a couple of terminators at the front did not change the outcome of the battles. And Khrushchev's, Brezhnev's tanks and mtlb are fighting. It’s scary to think what would have happened if the surviving remnants of the military equipment of the USSR would not have fought with spears and bows.
      1. -2
        March 11 2023
        During this time, in 1941-1942, under Stalin, factories built thousands of new tanks, armored vehicles, artillery

        Just in the hardest first year of the war, only tested equipment was produced. New developments have been halted. We returned to the existing samples. Factories and design bureaus really turned around by the end of the second year. But not the first. And they also armed the mobilized with everything that was available!
        1. +3
          March 11 2023
          Factories and design bureaus really turned around by the end of the second year. But not the first. And they also armed the mobilized with everything that was available!

          As already in the NWO, the entire European part of the Russian Federation was taken and you urgently had to evacuate the factories? )
          If not, where is the technology?
        2. AAK
          0
          March 12 2023
          comparing 2022 with 1941 is somehow not entirely correct (tolerant expression)
      2. +2
        March 11 2023
        In general, the military says something completely different about our technology.
        And there are many novelties at the front. Not everything is shown on commercials.
        But war is war. The enemy is also not weak and is familiar with the basics of warfare. Even with modern equipment and means, one must also be able to use them at the right time and precisely against the enemy. And he is an infection, hiding, maneuvering, setting tricks.
        Well, what's the point if you launched a high-precision missile at a barn, somewhere there is something, or it wasn’t there, or it was but they brought it. So you need to conduct accurate reconnaissance and additional reconnaissance, and this time. You have a weapon, but you can't use it right away. Will you fire the Krasnopol projectile at single infantrymen? The enemy seems to be here, you have high-precision ammunition, but will you shoot? That's right. Even if you have everything in abundance, this does not mean that you need to equate everything in front of you and where something is and where there is no one and there was not. Or a tank is coming for a forest plantation. The UAV detected it and transmitted the coordinates to the artillerymen, and how, you will hit the target without seeing it, especially since it does not move evenly.
        It’s good for you Krasnopol, but the target needs to be highlighted, and here it is, but behind a forest plantation, and even if somewhere nearby there is a person with a backlight device, the trees will interfere with guidance. And on the UAV, the backlight may or may not be. That is, you have everything, but you cannot hit the technique.
        1. AAK
          0
          March 12 2023
          We have a very big shortage of reconnaissance UAVs and aircraft with satellites and it’s simply catastrophic - for capable and not messed up generals
          1. 0
            March 14 2023
            We have a very big shortage of reconnaissance UAVs and aircraft with satellites and is simply catastrophic

            Across the entire flying range, there is a catastrophic shortage and a terrible backlog in terms of capabilities among what is.
    11. 0
      March 12 2023
      Quote from Klaus8691
      Not from a good life, apparently, this instance was invented. We will look at the results of the application, if they show of course.

      For a good life, there is Derivation-Air Defense, and if you combine them into one battery with the Sosna air defense system, then the near zone will be closed from almost all drones and various other flying crap, and the technique described in the article for these needs is a very dubious pleasure! negative
    12. 0
      March 12 2023
      I don’t understand why the Pacific Oceanists didn’t put up the mast? 8 am - the raising of the Naval flag!
  2. +12
    March 11 2023
    I have one question_ why the tower was not lowered lower? The barbet could be sunk into the hull itself.
    1. +11
      March 11 2023
      Spiteful critics: the military-industrial complex did not participate in the creation of the chariot

      —- Conditional passionary Kuznetsov, the master of the repair shop in the village of N-skom, showed the assembled chariot to the Zvezda engineer Sidorov. “The soldiers and I decided to do our best to help our people at the front. They got the chassis and the turret, and they blinded it. We drove along the dirt road and ravines, shot. Works. Can you help us make half or a dozen?”. Sidorov commented on the center of gravity, on subsidence. To which Kuznetsov said, “We understand this even without you, Sidor. But it rides and fights even with 6 boxes of shells. So you will help - after all, everything is for the front ... especially our 155th brigade ... it’s like your son-in-law there ..”

      —-So it was born, this Far Eastern chariot. And you are “the military-industrial complex this, the military-industrial complex this ..”! It's embarrassing to read this crap... Those who cannot, teach. Those who can - dare and do.
    2. -1
      March 11 2023
      Obviously they didn’t lower it in order to save the troop compartment. In addition, once again, when the tower is hit, the mobility of the vehicle is preserved. In case of defeat of the car and its immobilization, the ability of the installation to fire remains. There is something not bad in this.
    3. +1
      March 11 2023
      This requires more complex work with the body of the walker. And so welded in a circle and ready.
      1. +1
        March 11 2023
        Well, if you just welded _ then this is not very good. I think some kind of pedestals, racks were welded into the landing.
    4. -2
      March 11 2023
      "I have one question_ why wasn't the tower lowered lower?"
      he is a designer, he sees it that way!
    5. +1
      March 11 2023
      The installation is stationary, although mobile. against drones. The calculation must be on duty around the clock. So he is resting in the MTLB building. It will not move at high speed, it will not go on the attack, so the increase in CG is not critical.
      If the barbet were drowned, then in general the troop compartment would become impregnable. And there you also need to carry BC, and the calculation on the march.
  3. +1
    March 11 2023
    And yes, there was information that the weapons were changed, they were installed at 2 kpvt.
    1. +8
      March 11 2023
      This is a broken phone. KPVT was installed on other motorcycle leagues, also naval (Caspian, it seems, because motorcycle leagues mutated somewhere there) 2M7 installations.
  4. +28
    March 11 2023
    Of course, these shushpanzers riveted not from an excess of "Terminators" and "Boomerangs".
    And they laughed at the non-brothers when they sawed their "chimeras".
    1. +12
      March 11 2023
      Well, so the marines were given the BMP-3M with the latest body kit of the Research Institute of Steel.


      They buried them heroically in the minefields.


      Here in the photo you can see the scatter of mines - and they are just outlined, they are perfectly detected from a similar copter when reconnaissance of the advance area. Either they scored or saved the copter and went to chance.


      Broshenki finished off with copters and FPV.


      Now the abandoned women live very shortly at the LBS. For the photo-video recording of the destruction of the abandoned is paid as for the destroyed combat unit. And they pay well. I saw obscene notes, levels, at night the group climbed to pull off fresh daytime throws and trophy, and there the mavikovods had already bombed them with grenades into hatches.
      1. 0
        March 11 2023
        Quote: donavi49
        For the photo-video recording of the destruction of the abandoned is paid as for the destroyed combat unit. And they pay well. I saw obscene notes, levels, at night the group climbed to pull off fresh daytime throws and trophy, and there the mavikovods had already bombed them with grenades into hatches.

        They lie, most likely from anger and greed - they themselves wanted to finish off the abandoned woman and get money, but they were ahead of them.
        Because how to capture equipment from those fields and send it to the rear for repairs is quite dangerous and problematic.
    2. -4
      March 11 2023
      The Terminator is not a replacement for this machine. It has optimal elevation/rotation angles for infantry and tanks. And this one has coals for anti-aircraft work, against drones.
  5. +1
    March 11 2023
    When creating weapons, a strict specialization in the field of application should be set, with the main parameters: convenience and lethal efficiency. And here, who knows: maybe this way, or maybe that way ... you see, it will come in handy somewhere. This does not work.
    1. -3
      March 11 2023
      Terminator has been criticized by many. And now everyone directly involved in hostilities praises him and demands more of them.
      So here too. Why send something in metal if a new niche for application has been identified and tested.
      Again. We are not here to criticize the actions of the military. But the installation was tested and obviously showed its effectiveness, it was found to be used and a small batch was released. In the second line of defense, it is just very useful. Although we don't know much about her yet. Perhaps this development is associated with some kind of existing radar and works with it in conjunction with air targets such as UAVs. The Shell type was smashed from one installation to two.
      1. +2
        March 11 2023
        Comparing the Terminator and this is like comparing God's gift to scrambled eggs. These are from different files. How can you even compare this? It's just a waste of motorcycle leagues. This is just sabotage.
  6. +18
    March 11 2023
    Author, author ......., this is called a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, Kurganets,, Sergey Kuzhugetovich has long promised. So the new equipment went to the troops. Need to rejoice! It is high time to understand what "nuggets" are leading our country. And who sits in the Defense Ministry and the General Staff. Ever since the first Chechen war, it was understood that the infantry needed small-caliber rapid-fire artillery for support. Therefore, they began to actively use 2-23. But this never reached our generals. Therefore, they still have not decided: do we need a BMPT, Terminator, or not. Although it would seem to look at the motorcycle league from 2-23 and everything is clear. Now they are still procrastinating on various sites about installing 57mm on BMPTs, they say the caliber is larger, armor penetration, range, high-explosive action. But for this there is artillery and tanks. Let them work for 5 km. And the infantry needs a small-caliber rapid-fire cannon, and the more ammunition, the better.
    1. +4
      March 11 2023
      And she is Kurganets because a mound formed on top of the motorcycle league?
      1. +1
        March 11 2023
        Because ancient people buried in mounds.
  7. The comment was deleted.
    1. +1
      March 11 2023
      Your statement is not entirely correct. It is not the designers who are to blame for this problem, that is, the developments, but there is no will at the top of the generals. History repeats itself as always. The same situation was in 1914 and 1941. There were developments, there were tested prototypes, but the generals did not understand the importance of this issue. Everywhere in the world, questions about the supply of new weapons are decided by generals, and they, as a rule, are always wrong. The reason is simple, they do not have the appropriate specialized education, and they think in terms of past wars. So everything is as always.
  8. -2
    March 11 2023
    For fighters that are at the front, such a weapon is good, the main thing is that it works. Well, the holy face with his friends will say this, everything is going according to plan
  9. +6
    March 11 2023
    It is possible that such a hybrid was made at the request of the Marines. And there was always order with fantasy in the Navy. Plus, their own ammunition and in their warehouses.
    1. -3
      March 11 2023
      Sailors see the fighting differently. They always had a problem with "Air", they do not know mortar fire. Apparently it got enough for some copters to bombard them with vogs. So they bristled. Drone operators will bypass their positions.
  10. +5
    March 11 2023
    Putin and Shoigu have not yet shown all their trump cards.
    So .. the further, the more interesting it will be sad
    1. -2
      March 11 2023
      Yeah ... I remember a song from the times of my naked-bellied childhood ...
      Auto-moto-velo-photo
      Two porcelain legs
      Two magnet hooves
      On the hooves - irons.

      Auto-moto-velo-photo
      Started your motor
      Opened all the gates
      Went out into the open.

      Ran through the lowlands
      It suddenly stopped
      Either oil or gasoline
      Covered everything around.

      Auto-moto-velo-photo
      Ran into the swamp.
      For the swamp, for the stream,
      Ate a ton of bricks.

      That's why, that's why
      The axle in the wheel is broken
      And suddenly
      auto-moto-
      bike photo
      Exploded.

      ... The boys found something
      But a little, five parts:
      Two springs, two tires
      And a gearbox.

      And the cockpit and pedals
      And wheels and handlebars
      Geese-swans pecked,
      The animals were taken to their burrows.
  11. +5
    March 11 2023
    Both in Afghanistan and in Chechnya, they put zu23 either on the Urals or on motorcycle leagues ... Maybe it's time to do this in series, for example, based on the T55 or 62?
    1. +10
      March 11 2023
      Quote: Egor Adashev
      Both in Afghanistan and in Chechnya, they put zu23 either on the Urals or on motorcycle leagues ... Maybe it's time to do this in series, for example, based on the T55 or 62?
      ZSU-37-2 "Yenisei"

      ZSU-57-2

      On TV they showed how an old anti-aircraft gun works in Ukraine: shells explode over the forest (over the positions of the Nazis)
      1. -1
        March 11 2023
        "Maybe it's time to do this in series, for example, based on the T55 or 62?"
        if the shilka is armored, a wonderful gun will turn out, both for the city and for the first line, only reduce the rate of fire to attack, or halve the trunks
  12. +32
    March 11 2023
    Special operation spawns monsters

    This is not a special operation that gives rise to monsters, but the most common lack of strategy, when the most necessary and necessary for the country is to swell huge funds for the re-equipment of the "royal" chambers and the creation of an armored "Aurus" in various versions ...
    It's so important to drive up to the porch on the "analogue in the world" or standing in such a car, holding the handrail, accept the parade of weapons that are not available ...
    Quote from Klaus8691
    Not from a good life, apparently, this instance was invented.

    This is not from a good life ... This is from inept leadership, brains swollen with fat, excessive lust for power and arrogance, with all the other vices that unlimited power and unlimited possibilities give rise to ...
    It's called splurge at balls and audiences, and just goof off in a bad time...
    There is no purpose in this product, except for demonstrating shame ... For some reason, no one in the Kremlin rides the UAZ ...
    Today, prestige appears where it should not be. And he should be where you need to raise the national flag or hit the enemy so that he loses all desire to resist ...
    1. -1
      March 12 2023
      Quote: ROSS 42
      This is not a special operation that gives rise to monsters, but the most common lack of strategy, when the most necessary and necessary for the country is to swell huge funds for the re-equipment of the "royal" chambers and the creation of an armored "Aurus" in various versions ...

      The oligarch's yacht costs as much as several hundred BMP-3s. It's not about the auruses, it's about the system that parasitizes on the labor of the common people. When instead of several hundred BMP-3s we have a beautiful yacht of an oligarch. And besides, our state system is so rotten that it is generally incapable of anything other than spreading rot on the crazy liberals. And selectively. I remember here almost a year ago they wrote about a plant for the production of drones operating in three shifts. And how, where are the products? Complete lies and hypocrisy. instead of a result.
  13. +14
    March 11 2023
    My friends, if my memory serves me right, we live in a strong state. And what is, in essence, braces? These are some passionate foundations of the consciousness of society. And one of the bonds is (when the mess reaches the boiling point) a heart-rendingly hysterical cry - WELL, DO ANYTHING ALREADY!!! And instead of a normal weapon, suitable for the place and time, with a clear concept of its use and interaction with other types of weapons, such "miracles" appear. This is all from poverty - from production at the level of the beginning of the last century, from the fact that it is more profitable for a designer to work as a steamer in a bathhouse, from the fact that officers are not shaved to blue and slightly drunk, but drunk to blue and slightly shaved. In short, as the classic said, devastation - it is not in closets, devastation is in the heads.
    1. -1
      March 12 2023
      Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
      In short, as the classic said, devastation - it is not in closets, devastation is in the minds.

      The devastation is not in the minds, the devastation is all around. And the very people who are now telling us about the need to be patriots from a zombie man arranged it or contributed to it.
  14. +12
    March 11 2023
    A terrible sight. Although not artisanal, but still - ordinary. The author's concern about the overturning of this creation is not unfounded. It is sad to see that this is produced in Russia and obviously not from a good life. Is ZU-23-2 not enough? As Comrade Shvonder said: "This is some kind of shame." Isn't it time to put the quadruple Maxim on the long-suffering motorcycle league?
    1. IVZ
      +10
      March 11 2023
      Is ZU-23-2 not enough?
      . Most likely there is not enough ammunition and barrels. Ammunition cal. 23 are produced in small batches only for foreign customers, because we have adopted a "single" 30th caliber. Although in fact the ammunition for different branches of the military is still different. And the fact of being in demand and popularity during the maintenance of the database of installations of this caliber by higher authorities is ignored with persistence worthy of a better application.
      1. +1
        March 11 2023
        "Most likely there is not enough ammunition and barrels"
        Germans resumed the production of shells for a cheetah for Ukraine, but our military-industrial complex cannot do it for its army? or doesn't want to?
    2. 0
      March 11 2023
      "Isn't it time to put the quadruple Maxim on the long-suffering motorcycle league?"
      no, it's still early, 2m3 hasn't run out yet
    3. +2
      March 11 2023
      Well, there are not enough ZU-23-2 sailors. Where will they get it from? And 2x25 is worse? Pointing speeds are higher, hydraulic drive, pointing angles are greater. And there was no need to wait, everything was already in warehouses, their own. With their own ammunition, with trained crews (from the reserve).
      1. 0
        March 11 2023
        Where does hydraulics come from? The drives were left manual, so there is no pointing speed, the sight is the simplest ring ...
        1. +1
          March 11 2023
          The hydraulic pump is easy to attach to the engine. Belt latch. And you can spin it through a DC motor.
  15. +12
    March 11 2023
    And where did the "Shilki" go? Or have they been cut into metal for "excessive" efficiency and to please the "partners"?
    1. +4
      March 11 2023
      Yesterday I watched a video on TGC. In one echelon, on neighboring platforms, there are Shilki and this is a miracle. It's just that the authors have focused on MTLB.
    2. +4
      March 11 2023
      And where did the "Shilki" go?
      - get up ... when were they taken out of production? and they didn’t release so much, something was sold, something was scrapped, well, something is now being pulled out of the storerooms ... MTLBshek is stupidly ten times more
    3. -1
      March 11 2023
      Shilki were in the Ground Forces. And the sailors found this. What's worse?
      1. +2
        March 11 2023
        What is worse?
        - yes, actually for everyone, one glance is enough, but in the absence of the countess, the maid will do ...
        1. 0
          March 11 2023
          Here, obviously, "for lack of a maid, a janitor will do."
          1. -1
            March 11 2023
            stop with these rainbow hints, you are not here, we do not need tolerance ... lol
    4. -3
      March 11 2023
      In one of my comments, I expressed the opinion that soon I would have to get Shilka to fight drones. There were also fears that they had already been cut down by effective managers. This miracle technique seems to confirm my fears. We will soon return to multi-turreted tanks, or maybe even ask the Mongols for the secrets of a composite bow.
    5. +2
      March 12 2023
      And where did the "Shilki" go?

      And what about Shilki? How and what to aim them at? Shilka for its intended use requires thoughtful modernization.
  16. -2
    March 11 2023
    The enemy has an armored personnel carrier-4 with a remote-controlled twin artillery mount, and we have this crap where a person is sitting, practically unprotected by anything.
    1. +9
      March 11 2023
      We were often told as children that
      There is always room for exploit in life

      But at the same time they "forgot" to add that
      just need to stay away from this place as far as possible

      But some added that
      Our country will always give you the opportunity to accomplish a feat

      But in general - the feat of some people is always the stupidity and gouging of others ...
    2. IVZ
      +7
      March 11 2023
      The enemy has an armored personnel carrier-4 with a remote-controlled twin artillery mount, and we have this crap where a person is sitting, practically unprotected by anything.
      We also have armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. Here, a comparison with machine-gun pickups, gantraks and other crafts is more correct.
    3. -3
      March 11 2023
      Quote: certero
      The enemy has an armored personnel carrier-4 with a remote-controlled twin artillery mount, and we have this crap where a person is sitting, practically unprotected by anything.


      And she does not need to collide with the BTR-4 - the lot of this pepelats is the saturation of the object air defense in the rear. And who told you that the BTR-4 crew is more efficient than a Russian peasant with a "Chinese" type radio and an anti-aircraft gun with manual guidance and a reticle sight?
    4. -2
      March 11 2023
      And who will shoot him? Drone? So the drone needs to get closer to 50 meters and stand exactly at the zenith, aim for a long time. This installation will get it from 500 meters. As soon as he shows up. But to hang to throw all sorts of rubbish - sorry, it will not work in any way.
  17. -4
    March 11 2023
    For Victory, any means are good. The second life of equipment, otherwise they are rusting at the BT storage bases. Only it is desirable to stick modern optics.
    1. +1
      March 11 2023
      The fact that rust is pulled out and sent instead of normal weapons will be paid for with the lives of soldiers. But, and in a businesslike way, and for the victory.
    2. -4
      March 11 2023
      I would not want to climb into this tin can for the sake of recycling junk.
      1. 0
        March 11 2023
        Quote: Glock-17
        I would not want to climb into this tin can for the sake of recycling junk.

        Where would you like to?
        1. -2
          March 11 2023
          Would you like it straight from the couch?
          1. -1
            March 12 2023
            Quote: Glock-17
            Would you like it straight from the couch?

            I don’t do balabolism from the couch, like you, I often ask balabols questions. I went to the military registration and enlistment office more than once - until they took it. And you - a question for a question - have nothing to say? He stammered, so answer, why chew snot.
            1. -3
              March 12 2023
              And can you confirm your statements? You can say anything.
              1. 0
                March 12 2023
                Quote: Glock-17
                And can you confirm your statements? You can say anything.

                Again a question on a question is already a bad form. How can you confirm, except at a personal meeting, let's agree ... With the same success, I can ask you to confirm for a start that you are not mentally retarded, otherwise it might not make sense to communicate with you? Write in a personal about the meeting, let's go to the military registration and enlistment office, where I have already gone three times.
                1. -4
                  March 12 2023
                  Now everything is clear who is mentally retarded and why you are not trusted with weapons. The conversation is over.
                  1. 0
                    March 12 2023
                    Quote: Glock-17
                    Now everything is clear who is mentally retarded and why you are not trusted with weapons. The conversation is over.

                    I was trusted with firearms in the military unit at the shooting range already in my school years. Balabolsky drain counted.
  18. 0
    March 11 2023
    https://t.me/dva_majors/10661
    Video review on the same topic.
    A cool gantrak can turn out to protect a variety of objects, first of all.
  19. -1
    March 11 2023
    A distinctive feature of a good weapon is external beauty and grace. It is always beautiful! There are no exceptions. And now I'm looking at this "masterpiece" ... Maybe I don't understand beauty?
    When I compare our tanks and Leopards, I see that ours are much more beautiful.
    1. +4
      March 11 2023
      Quote: Just_Kvasha
      When I compare our tanks and Leopards, I see that ours are much more beautiful.

      This is a very subjective opinion. And any German likes the design of the "Leopard" more
    2. +1
      March 11 2023
      You will see it as it works, especially at night - fall in love. A pillar of muzzle fire, crimson and green "stars" fly smoothly and disappear into the clouds - beauty! Yes, it's beautiful. But not at the echelon, but at work.
    3. -1
      March 12 2023
      According to the MO, your criteria for beauty do not meet modern realities.
  20. +4
    March 11 2023
    The biggest drawback of this "monster" is the lack of a little bit of a radar or at least a rangefinder. And it raises the question of how the calculation will receive target designations and commands to open fire
    It is also worth sorting out the place of this installation in battle formations, it is clear that there is not much for her to do at the forefront, since she is very tall and not very mobile. So the protection of the nearest rear.
    1. +11
      March 11 2023
      I must say right away that butting with an ATGM is a dead idea. The ATGM will get it from where its gunner can't even see it.
    2. -3
      March 11 2023
      No radar is needed to spot a drone hovering over a grenade drop position. Infantry will also work on them, also as tracers. Here is your target designation. In general, after the discovery of this product, drones will flatly refuse to fly into the vicinity. What was required in the task ... wink
    3. 0
      March 11 2023
      svp67 (Sergey)
      It is also worth dealing with the place of this installation in battle formations

      support for assault operations with single fire from behind a hillock (corner) from a couple of kilometers to suppress.
      video from Yemen, how they beat height after height, economically and very effectively using such calibers.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6yuICjvJKo
      14.40 sec, 15.40 sec

      about enemy fire from ATGMs and artillery - everything is clear - in relation to this TVD. as you can see, no options.
  21. -3
    March 11 2023
    "Motor League" with a 2M-3 ship bandura, armed with two 25-mm cannons,

    As they say, it has no analogue in the world ... But everything is banal from hopelessness, and the lack of specialized equipment, the same terminators, of which there are a couple of dozen for the entire NWO. am
    How will this technique behave on LBS, no protection, no electronic means, etc., etc.? Yes, and on the other side, unfortunately, there are enough intelligent anti-aircraft gunners who simply will not let her drive up to shoot, and will put her out of action with fragments of artillery. I would like to believe that this wunderwaffle will still be useful and effective to some extent hi
    1. 0
      March 11 2023
      This product has nothing to do with LBS. His position is near the regiment's shchaba, to guard against drones. Well, if turntables, Su-25s or Thunderbolts (!) appear, they will also shoot back. The sailors have long-standing scores with "Air" th. laughing
  22. +2
    March 11 2023
    Already the second article about MTLB with this installation, not too much? And if this is for the 155th brigade, then the Marines asked and did not ask the author of the article.

    As it turned out, the vehicles were equipped with ship installations in Vladivostok, and specifically for the 155th Separate Marine Brigade of the Pacific Fleet, whose units are now participating in the battles in the Donbass.

    And what is the name MT-LB? When I studied the device, control and operation of this machine, the name was Light Armored Multi-Purpose Tractor, i.e. MTLB without any hyphens. It looks like the author's main source is Wikipedia.
    1. 0
      March 11 2023
      In English literature they write "MT-LB", so the Wikipedians "translate" like that. For them, English is sacred, and Americans are the smartest people in the world! laughing In the same quotes in the same article, look - in the Russian sources of MTLB, in the English MT-LB. But after all, the Americans "invented everything", and the Russians only "copied" laughing
      1. +6
        March 11 2023
        Oh, fighters against cosmopolitanism on the attack?



  23. +1
    March 11 2023
    Quote: fiberboard
    And the infantry needs a small-caliber rapid-fire cannon, and the more ammunition, the better.

    And how do you imagine it? After shooting the drum, the fighters take a new one and change it upstairs. Under fire. It is impossible to get to the installation there. hi
  24. +3
    March 11 2023
    . MT-LB with naval gun mounts

    Did you take them to an exhibition in Abu Dhabi??
    Didn't have time to go - too new ...
    It's a pity. And that would definitely be a sensation!
  25. +4
    March 11 2023
    Nevertheless, Azerbaijan retains its leadership with its MTLB-AM.
    Double tower: main module (rear):
    - launcher for 15 unguided missiles 57 mm C5.
    - automatic grenade launcher AGS-17
    - PKT machine gun 7,62 mm
    The front machine gun turret is equipped with PKT 7,62 machine guns.

    1. -1
      March 11 2023
      Indeed, it would be better to install blocks of RSs, and not this insanity with a barbette.
      1. +2
        March 11 2023
        How are you going to shoot drones with RSs? Such motorized leagues are not to support infantry, but ersatz anti-aircraft guns.
        1. +6
          March 11 2023
          Quote: Roma-1977
          How are you going to shoot drones with RSs? Such motorized leagues are not to support infantry, but ersatz anti-aircraft guns.

          What are drones? Even the Shells with modern rapid-fire guns and, more importantly, sighting systems, showed low (no) effectiveness. And here is the angle!!! sight and manual (most likely) guidance drive.
    2. -1
      March 12 2023
      The purpose of this machine is interesting. Ersatz self-propelled guns? The layout of the towers is interesting. For the same BMPT, it is more effective than what is now. Although, however, in the presence of BMP-T, BMPT is not needed.
    3. -1
      March 14 2023
      Quote from: blackGRAIL
      Nevertheless, Azerbaijan retains its leadership with its MTLB-AM.

      Awotfig! Muromteplovoz drives! smile

      There are no S-1 unguided missiles on the MT-LB M2B5 - but there is a full-fledged module with 2A42, PKTM and AG-17.
  26. Eug
    0
    March 11 2023
    If, with all the shortcomings listed, such a technique has appeared so far in the area, then on the LBS itself, it seems to me:
    - when assaulting agglomerations, infantry really needs constant artillery small (sometimes large) artillery support, from which you can’t really hide behind a wall (something like the Su-76 NPP in the Great Patriotic War). Shilki would be nice, but for some reason they are not;
    - a rather powerful person appeared who quickly responded to the requests of the troops;
    - it would not hurt either the GRAU or the Engineering Directorate to do this (previously arms supplies abroad from army structures went through it) of the General Staff, but the "professionals" clearly do not keep up with the "amateur" creativity.
    Draw your own conclusions..
  27. +5
    March 11 2023
    Quote: Mordvin77
    For Victory, any means are good. The second life of equipment, otherwise they are rusting at the BT storage bases. Only it is desirable to stick modern optics.

    For Victory, we need good equipment, and not expose our fighters to fire. And then one-trillions "for rearmament", others equipment from the 50-60s. hi hi
  28. -3
    March 11 2023
    Come on! Whether a soldier is in battle or not, or fire support for such a motorcycle league with two 20 mm cannons is just happiness! We must thank the people who do not sit in a warm office and tap on the clave, but to the best of their ability help our fighters to beat the Banderites! How many sons, fathers and brothers will this motorcycle league save! They will be able to come home, kiss their wives and children!
    1. +1
      March 11 2023
      Quote: maiman61
      Whether a soldier is in battle or not, or fire support for such a motorcycle league with two 20 mm cannons is just happiness!

      Only this one-time support: to get to the LBS, best case scenario shoot back and 99% do not return.
    2. 0
      March 12 2023
      Quote: maiman61
      Come on!

      It's not okay. Also say that a fighter with a halberd is better than without it. Do we have the Middle Ages in the yard? How are we going to fight with NATO with this miracle weapon? Why this nonsense?
  29. -3
    March 11 2023
    As I already wrote a year ago, according to the feedback from the participants, it would be nice to have something like the M61 volcano on the armor. This is some kind of analogue.
  30. +11
    March 11 2023
    Reminds me of playing Civilization backwards.
    That way, by 2033 we will come to horse archers.
  31. +7
    March 11 2023
    Similar matalygs, only with an open pedestal, were driven through Mariupol. While the column was standing. The guys were shopping for food in the store. We talked to the truck drivers. It turned out that it was a special order from the Marines. Matalyga, the thing is flat. To her, in any pit and a house and shelter. They drove it into a ditch, only one head sticks out. Used to "block the war zone." This quote. At checkpoints, and in ambushes, in the likely direction of the breakthrough "jihad mobiles"
    1. -3
      March 11 2023
      But what about protection against copters if they throw tanks through hatches?
      1. -5
        March 11 2023
        But what about protection against copters if they throw tanks through hatches?
        Watch less commercials from both sides.
      2. 0
        March 11 2023
        And how will the copter hover over two such barrels, spewing 2x300 25 mm shells per minute? To drop a grenade "into the hatch" you need to hover no more than 50 meters and aim for a long, long time, and more than once. Sweep the poor drone even without shells, one muzzle flame and powder gases ...
        1. -3
          March 12 2023
          He fired these 600 shells at one, let's say he shot down, another flew up, a third.
          Here the "hatch" is larger than the tank one, and you can hang higher. And from "VPN" drones, there are no options at all, given no armor.
  32. 0
    March 11 2023
    70 percent new technology. At an explosive pace.
    1. -1
      March 11 2023
      In three shifts, in three shifts and according to the SVO plan.
  33. +5
    March 11 2023
    What did Shoigu say about 80% of modern equipment in the troops?
    1. +1
      March 11 2023
      This is what it is, you don't understand... You can be sure that there are no analogues in the world. There is also a completely domestic product, 100% import substitution.
      Everything is as according to reports: modern - there was no such thing before, and a completely domestic product that has no analogues in the world.
    2. -1
      March 11 2023
      This was before mobilization. Only for the contract army. And when warehouses were opened for the mobilized, the percentage fell. Why are you surprised?
    3. -3
      March 11 2023
      Didn't lie. A year ago, this technology did not exist. So it's new.
    4. -1
      March 12 2023
      Quote: Dmitry_Semashko
      What did Shoigu say about 80% of modern equipment in the troops?

      Something lately, he looks more like a mouse than the Minister of Defense.
  34. -1
    March 11 2023
    I really want to hope that the barbet was somehow extended in length to the bottom of the "motorcycle league", otherwise the center of gravity is at a dangerous height.

    Mechanic, however... lol
  35. -2
    March 11 2023
    Any weapon should be used correctly. If the enemy does not have an ATGM, then even a thirty-four is quite an ultimatum argument on the battlefield. So here. Fight without substituting and everything will be fine. The question is whether there are targets for this cuttlefish that it can destroy "without being substituted." And as for the author's questions about the technical implementation of the hybrid ... Somehow they are very similar to finding out military secrets.
    1. +1
      March 11 2023
      Mmm, how interesting. And who now does not have an ATGM or at least an RPG? KPVT will beat this thing.
      1. -2
        March 11 2023
        KPVT will pierce 3-4 of these pieces, set side to side. And 4 mm armor will be pierced by a PC. Yes, and the machines have good chances.
    2. -2
      March 11 2023
      Quite a lot of targets - drones, turntables, Su-25, Thunderbolt A-10. While the latter is not visible, but will appear. Let them know that they are waiting for him.
  36. +4
    March 11 2023
    Strange ! Really in Russia "Shilka" and ZSU-57-2 "evaporated"? What to expect now? I think that the Far Eastern crazy people will not stop there! As the Gorbi people taught: The main thing is to start! We are now waiting for more powerful ship installations!


    And there ... Wave your hand, itch your shoulder!


    Load these units on KamAZ and ... let's go, "beauty", ride,,, I haven't driven you for a long time!
    And when I thought, how much "good" in Russia is piled up in the bottom of the barrel ...! Already in the "crotch breath stole"!



    After all, to this good, too, the shells should be "Heap ..."!
    PS From top to bottom: 1/2. 37 mm V-11 mount; 3. 25-mm anti-aircraft gun Z-5; 4. 37-mm SHKVAL installation; 5.ASU-57; 6. ASU-85; 7. SU-100.......
    1. +2
      March 11 2023
      And where did the "Tunguzki" go? It was they who replaced the "Shilki" in the late 80s?
      1. +3
        March 11 2023
        Actually, there were not very many in the Tungusok troops, as I was told ... and those that are are fighting! (Only here the military correspondents and TV officers, for some reason, do not favor them very much!) recourse request
        1. +4
          March 11 2023
          There are Tunguskas in the NWO zone. I confirm I have seen it.
      2. +2
        March 11 2023
        "Tungusok" burned decently in Grozny ...
    2. -1
      March 12 2023
      The pictures are beautiful, of course. However, this is all due to the fact that the defense industry was not able to offer and manufacture combat modules capable of fighting drones.
      The most promising was Dirivation-Air Defense on the BMP-3 chassis. Such machines are not heard or seen.
      Many remote-controlled combat modules have been proposed, but they are not suitable for drones.
      As it turned out, we needed a large angle of elevation of the barrel, something like an automatic grenade launcher with grapeshot or shrapnel ammunition and a coaxial small-caliber gun or machine gun. And a night sight with other means of detecting drones is required.
    3. -1
      March 12 2023
      SU-100 swallow. WOT has a great car. laughing
  37. +1
    March 11 2023
    Most likely the machines are designed to fight drones. In the video (where the photos were taken from) there is a mtlb with a rising bar with mounted shipborne radars.
  38. +1
    March 11 2023
    To spend the funds spent earlier not only on development, but also on production ...
    But they make what they order. They ordered 20 Armats - they will produce it.
    And as it became hot - thunder and lightning poured not on the customer, but on developers and factories. These directors received millions, but did not produce anything ...
    And the customer, represented by the Moscow Region, has ordered a lot of promising and modern equipment since 2000?
    I remember two phrases...

    No money, but you hold on!
    We have a lot of money!

    The first is from the one who calls for the whole world to pile on now in order to achieve the goals that are not supposed to be known about.
    The second - from the one whom everyone probably already cursed. And who once said: "Do you understand that if I do this, everyone will curse me?"
    1. 0
      March 12 2023
      Quote from Fangaro
      The first is from the one who calls for the whole world to pile on now in order to achieve the goals that are not supposed to be known about.

      Gather them all on all sides of the barricades and put them on these miracle machines, let them fight for their interests, and the battle is for their interests, and not ordinary people. "If the kings fought themselves, that would be a spectacle."
  39. +1
    March 11 2023
    Why didn't they place the "tower" in the hull on the floor and closer to the center of the hull? It would not stick out so much, would not rock the car when firing, and the weight would be distributed more evenly.
    I understand - a rhetorical question, they did it as quickly and as simply ............................
    1. +2
      March 11 2023
      Why didn't they place the "tower" in the hull on the floor and closer to the center of the hull?

      It looks like you have never been inside a motorcycle league, there is an engine in the middle, and if on the floor, then there will be no place for calculating the gun. After all, this is a tractor for a gun with a crew and ammunition., Not a tank. And against the DRG on pickup trucks, it can be cheap and cheerful to defend the position of the gun, even without using additional outposts. Saving forces and means in modern combat conditions, when guns are used by gun, and not by battery.
      1. -1
        March 11 2023
        Yes, I know that the engine is in the middle - but it seems to me that the "tower" could still be moved closer to the center.
  40. -14
    March 11 2023
    There are a lot of right-wingers and whiners on the site, as well as alarmists and mud-slingers, but not as non-patriots of their country. Any article contains such personalities. That's where the lie detector and the indicator of ideology are needed.
    1. +9
      March 11 2023
      Quote: VOENOBOZ
      alarmists and mud-slingers, but not as patriots of their country.

      So join the ranks of the patriots, looking at this water tower on tracks. And I don't feel like it.
      1. -1
        March 11 2023
        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        Quote: VOENOBOZ
        alarmists and mud-slingers, but not as patriots of their country.

        So join the ranks of the patriots, looking at this water tower on tracks. And I don't feel like it.
        And do not hope! None of this gop-company will go to the LBS, they are fine here too (they have such a profession - to defend their homeland in the rear, talking about excellent strategies and tactics, as well as about the excellent use of junk and homemade products) ...
    2. 0
      March 12 2023
      Quote: VOENOBOZ
      There are a lot of right-wingers and whiners on the site

      There are a lot of provocateurs and demagogues on the site defending the system that arranged all this shame.
  41. +1
    March 11 2023
    Scrolled in my head for a long time the word why? I think I found the answer - to saturate the battle formations with mobile means of combating unarmored armed pickups and lightly armored fast objects. It is clear that any regular armor will tear a pickup truck, only it cannot be provided in the right place at the moment ... MT-LB is recognized as just a machine and it is easy to dig it in without any crew, and everyone knows how to shoot from this fool Marines.
    1. 0
      March 11 2023
      All this would have worked in the 20th century, before the massive use of copters and UAVs.
      1. 0
        March 11 2023
        Just the copters and UAVs were returned to the service of the ICA (small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery). What is the purpose, such is the ammunition, such is the means of delivery.
        1. -2
          March 12 2023
          The problem is that you won’t fight off 2-3 copters with the help of the MCA from the middle of the last century. First you need to find them, these are not planes that can be heard and seen for kilometers.
    2. +1
      March 11 2023
      "and the marines can shoot from this fool, everyone knows how"
      why? marines are ordinary infantry, they are not armed with ship guns
  42. +9
    March 11 2023
    Plant them. Dzerzhinsky in Murom is the developer and manufacturer of MTLB. Why the MO does not order new tractors I do not know. But in the 90s, qualified personnel left this plant. I don’t know what the situation is now, but on the plant’s website
    a wide variety of military products is shown. Many with expensive modules, the cost of which is comparable to the cost of a tractor.


    At one time, the director complained in a personal conversation that he could not return personnel to the plant to fulfill an order for the modernization of the BMP, the workers said that they would make this order and again over the fence ...
    1. +5
      March 11 2023
      So I understand salaries are ridiculous now. I saw an article recently. 35 thousand for a worker and 40-50 for an engineer at a defense plant according to the usual schedule. Well, there is also Uralvagonzavod with a sweatshop schedule of 68 working hours a week and 100 thousand salaries. But for such a schedule, this is not enough. Prices are rising and salaries are not matching.
      1. -1
        March 12 2023
        I know one regional center, and it’s very large, because there have been no engineering and other factory vacancies for 25 years. And a salary for an engineer of 40-50 thousand rubles will be like "manna from heaven." And if vacancies do appear, then the requirements are set such that not every cosmonaut will meet them. Again, professional standards are implemented almost everywhere, which means a disenfranchisement and greatly reduces employment opportunities. Everything is relative.
      2. 0
        March 14 2023
        This is because it is necessary not to increase salaries, but to reduce price tags.
    2. +1
      March 12 2023
      Quote: Konnick
      At one time, the director complained in a personal conversation that he could not return personnel to the plant

      Let's keep complaining. Maybe a miracle will happen and a bunch of young people with work experience and the highest qualifications will suddenly appear on a rogue salary. Dolbodyatly plaintive.
  43. +2
    March 11 2023
    Quote: Roman Efremov
    Why didn't they place the "tower" in the hull on the floor and closer to the center of the hull?

    As for closer to the center - hz, but otherwise it was already higher
    Matalyga, the thing is flat. To her, in any pit and a house and shelter. They drove it into a ditch, only one head sticks out. Used to "block the war zone"
  44. +3
    March 11 2023
    The feeling that a mobile system for combating drones in the rear and no more.
    1. 0
      March 11 2023
      Is it not enough? How much longer can you endure copters throwing grenades in dugouts, crippling fighters?
      1. +1
        March 12 2023
        To deal with grenade-throwing copters, you need a hunting shotgun. And it’s better to attach a night sight to this shotgun. This is the most effective weapon at the moment, while there are no buckshot and shrapnel ammunition, and electronic warfare equipment has dubious effectiveness.
  45. BAI
    +3
    March 11 2023
    As it turned out, the vehicles were equipped with ship installations in Vladivostok, and specifically for the 155th Separate Marine Brigade of the Pacific Fleet, whose units are now participating in the battles in the Donbass.

    So maybe all the same, taking into account combat experience? How did the dill break through the defenses near Izyum and Krasny Liman? On mobile unarmored pickup trucks with machine guns. What to oppose them? And NOTHING! Not in a tank to chase a jeep. But these things, quickly pulled to the place of the breakthrough, will be very effective against pickups.
    1. +7
      March 11 2023
      Browning sews this motorcycle league into all projections, into a tower with a cannon mount too.
    2. +2
      March 11 2023
      "What to oppose to them? And NOTHING! Not to chase a jeep in a tank. But these things, quickly pulled to the breakthrough site, will be very effective against pickups"
      do you think mtlb will keep up with a pickup truck? and tanks have guns and machine guns, they don’t need to chase pickups. it’s just that boots interfere with some dancers, at least give them something
    3. 0
      March 12 2023
      Quote: BAI
      Not in a tank to chase a jeep. But these pieces, quickly pulled to the place of the breakthrough, will be very effective against pickups.

      Armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, tanks are no longer effective against pickups, but is this miracle Yudo right on top?
  46. +2
    March 11 2023
    It is easy to beat a recumbent. The car is clearly ugly, made handicraft, there are obvious questions about weight distribution and dimensions.

    But is she really that bad? in practice? ..

    In my opinion, an excellent (quickly implemented and delivered to the front in iron, and not in cartoons) alternative to the "Pantsir" in the form of object-based air defense against the latest types of threats, namely, semi-handicraft piston drones and quadrocopters. It is better than the "Shell" in that it will stand where the "Shell" was not at all. And the fact that it will allow you to move the "shells" to where they are needed, where there are threats of attacks from the air, not only by drones.

    1. +3
      March 11 2023
      There is most likely a manual drive (as indicated in the article). On a manual drive, it is not even an alternative to the ZU-23-2.

      Aiming at the iron sight.


      The shells are only contact detonation (that is, you need to hit with a land mine for it to work, there is no remote or radio fuse).

      In this configuration, its niche is to hollow out the building, to suppress the firing points on the floors of the panels.

      By the way, without water cooling (and it’s definitely not there) - it will be problematic to shoot long bursts at the building according to the principle, rolled out, fired 130 shells and rolled away. Although they made a lot of trunks for these machine guns.
      1. +1
        March 11 2023
        Quote: donavi49
        fired 130 rounds and rolled away

        Ek, you have enough ... It’s good there if 40-50 shells go into the ammunition tray. In general, it’s scary to sit down on this open place of the gunner sober.
        1. +3
          March 11 2023
          box-shaped round magazines with 65 rounds per barrel
      2. 0
        March 14 2023
        Quote: donavi49
        There is most likely a manual drive (as indicated in the article).

        There is manual guidance in any way - either directly with flywheels, or with a hydraulic drive control knob. This does not play a special role, since the aiming still proceeds according to the data issued by the biological SUAO Brain Mk.I + 2 x Eyeball Mk.I and the ring sight. And when firing with a ring sight (from a remote column), even the AK-630 puts shells "somewhere there."
    2. +8
      March 11 2023
      Quote: Proctologist
      alternative to "Shell"

      You don't really understand what you are talking about. With 2M-3, you can only get into Drone by accident. It will be used as an infantry fighting vehicle.
      Let me remind you how much more advanced Shells shoot at a large drone.
      1. -5
        March 11 2023
        it was necessary to write "forced alternative". I understand everything about manual guidance and contact detonation. Yes, this is not a Cheetah. But you also need to shoot down a cardboard drone, flying not even at subsonic, but at moped speed.

        If it is supposed to be used as a BMPT, then yes, trouble.
        1. +2
          March 11 2023
          What the hell is a "forced alternative"? This is a coffin for the crew and crew. This is a place for the quickest resting place for Russian soldiers with the help of enemy quadrics, that's all it is. Kapets. This is the nonsense of another elderly general or colonel
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. -1
        March 11 2023
        And this drone flew at a speed of 100+ km / h at a distance of 4000 meters. The question device will shoot at hovering copters at a distance of 50-500 meters. Not many grenades to throw with such a "company" nearby ...
      4. 0
        March 11 2023
        I repeat that as a means of air defense - as the videos with these homemade products in the same railway echelon with the Arrows say - this is a good solution against primitive low-speed drones.

        I saw a video where the Ukrainian TRO praised the RPD (Degtyarev, with disks) as a good solution against shaheeds - high accuracy and sufficiency of ammunition to shoot down a cardboard drone.
        I am convinced that similar air defense systems should correspond to the threats of the 1940s level. If with quadruple "maxims" or from a DShK it was possible to shoot down a Messerschmitt, an order of magnitude more difficult target, why is this installation worse against a simpler target ?!
  47. +1
    March 11 2023
    And this "having no analogues" at the exhibition and Abu Dhabi was shown or embarrassed?
  48. +6
    March 11 2023
    It’s interesting when some authors write about the need to prepare now for the massive use of UAVs by the enemy, while others, seeing albeit semi-handicraft, but real and already supplied to the troops installations for working in this direction, “monsters” and “long-suffering motorcycle leagues” call them names. And let the truth be somewhere in the middle, but there is still a difference to hit from two 25-mm UAVs, and not from the AK-74, as well as scaring the enemy from a forest camp 2 km away is more convenient from this, and not from RMB and even Korda. After all, LBS, whatever one may say, is very long, and in each direction the more equipment, the better. So, I think you need to be more careful with labeling.
  49. -2
    March 11 2023
    I think it happened like this: an order was received from the top to send to the war to replenish losses in equipment, and even combat-ready and meet the requirements of the war, that is, to arm and provide. And of course, they didn’t give anything. they blinded from what it was, no matter how absurd it sounded. They reported to the top, the order was executed. That's the whole oil painting. But the guys will have to foul language both the authorities and the Ministry of Defense for such equipment and they will be right. The Marines are now a strike force, they are storming the fortifications, and they are being supplied with rubbish. Here is the Wagner with shells and the offensive near Ugledar.
  50. +3
    March 11 2023
    And laughter and sin, God forgive me, because there are so many combat modules created for MTLB ....
    1. +3
      March 11 2023
      There is already a lot of folk art, the poor fellow-soldier in the plywood tower causes concern.

  51. +1
    March 11 2023
    "Even the presence of some kind of Strela-10 can make a conventional MT-LB battery with 2M-3 more or less tolerable"
    arrow 10 is quite a tolerable thing even without this freak. and much cheaper. So, are you running out of tricks? Or are there no shells and nowhere to make them?
    1. +2
      March 11 2023
      And, I repeat, where are the Tunguzkas??? They replaced the awls with them. They have a caliber of 30 mm. and this means unification with BMP-2, 3 shells
      1. +2
        March 11 2023
        There are Tunguzkas in the Northern Military District. Saw. But there are few of them.
      2. -2
        March 11 2023
        There is no unification there. The projectile is completely different.
      3. +1
        March 13 2023
        The generals sold them for scrap as well as the shilki. Why do they need them? They supposedly have a lot of shells.
      4. +1
        March 15 2023
        All these Shilkas and Tunguskas apparently turned out to be mediocre weapons in this conflict; neither side is actively using them, despite their availability. The effectiveness of this MTLB product is scary to imagine, it is possible to stuff it with explosives and send it to enemy positions - this is the maximum that can be achieved, and the tower is to intimidate the enemy or the expectation that the enemy will die laughing.
  52. +3
    March 11 2023
    Hey, comrades! Who laughed at the crafts of the khkhlovs and the “trash” from the Americans, why aren’t you laughing now? Laugh, comrades, laugh, this is so “funny.” sad
  53. +3
    March 11 2023

    Greetings from China! They liked it too.
  54. -1
    March 11 2023
    Golf is a tricky game. When the state machine is poking around in...., but you want to live.
  55. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      March 11 2023
      You also propose to install the turret from the battleship Yamato on the MT-LB.
      1. 0
        March 15 2023
        be sure to watch until the end
        https://youtu.be/nAGWCitiwtI
    2. 0
      March 14 2023
      Quote: megadeth
      How about putting AK-630, M, M1-2, M2 “Duet” on the MTLB!!!???

      Not bad, not bad. Then the engine can simply be thrown away. smile
  56. -4
    March 11 2023
    Better like this than none! Moreover, the Soviet military quality is much better than the current ones. All this war on technology of the last century - thanks to Brezhnev!
  57. The comment was deleted.
  58. 0
    March 11 2023
    And the caliber is 25x218 sr???

    Sorry, I'm not smart enough to write a normal comment
  59. The comment was deleted.
  60. -1
    March 11 2023
    Why didn’t they cut a hole in the roof of the troop compartment and lower the barbette - a little lighter and a lower center of gravity and less business?
    Powered by electric or hydraulic - like two fingers and barrel cooling
  61. -3
    March 11 2023
    My sofa opinion and criticism of critics.
    In order to be smart and criticize, you at least need to study the issue. And you need to start with the performance characteristics. The horizontal firing range of this gun is 7500 meters.
    Then you need to study the theater of war where villages/towns/cities are either adjacent to each other or at a distance of 3 km from each other. Each settlement is a fortified area.
    In addition, you still need to turn on the head, especially the memory department in it.
    Even when we were across the river, the Zushkas standing on the BTRD performed very well.
    The Marines do not have such armored personnel carriers with armored vehicles. And it is necessary. They sent a request to their fleet. They responded there. Only the caliber is larger, the range is better. A wave of shells. Regarding shells. It is still in service and used by the navy. Because these installations are still on auxiliary vessels.
    If you periodically drive up such a vehicle to the ruins on the edge of one village in order to support the storming soldiers on the edge of another village, then you can provide great assistance to them.
    And further. They should not be confused and compared with Khokhloshushpanzers. shushpanzer are UAZs sheathed in iron from garbage containers, even with kulemet.
    1. +5
      March 11 2023
      He doesn’t live on the “front end” at all.

      Mobility, cross-country ability. protection, fire control system, ability to support infantry when needed, and not when loaded - everything is in the ass.
      1. -3
        March 11 2023
        got out, shot back, hid.
        The rest of the ratings will be given by users, but not by armchair fighters)
        1. +1
          March 11 2023
          You don't have to be a chicken to understand scrambled eggs. The mobility of such a city is zero point zero due to the high center of gravity and generally unbalanced layout. Visibility 200%. Reservations are about zero. The visibility from the turret is much less than that of the open ZU-23-2. Lethal force is nothing. 7500 km - who needs it and where besides the sea? Where can you find such a straight line on land that you can shoot 7,5 km? Ammunition for one short burst.
        2. +2
          March 11 2023
          Good motto! Suitable for many occasions.
          You will come to a restaurant, they will pour you some kind of mud instead of borscht, and in response to your indignation they will say: “I ate it, I got poisoned, I got tired!”, and home cooks should not give an assessment, only eaters!
  62. +5
    March 11 2023
    Hmmm. So much for having no analogues, how quickly sobering up came. Parades and the realities of war
  63. 0
    March 11 2023
    If you look at the characteristics of the 2M3, then probably the key in this case will be the barrel elevation angle, ° -10/+85°. It is clear that this is not for the front line, but to combat enemy UAVs. If we assume that there are means of detection, but no means of destruction, then this thing will come in very handy. In the discussions, many wrote about "Shilkas", but there is one important point. Will “Shilka” see a small-sized object made mainly of plastic? If we assume that some enterprise has urgently mastered the production of UAV detection devices (such a story appeared on TV), then the next logical step would be to search for means of destruction. It is clear that in such a situation it is urgent to make friends between the hedgehog and the snake in order to get the required amount of barbed wire. And here there are such reserves of 2M3, and all the nomenclature for it.
    1. 0
      March 11 2023
      . Will “Shilka” see a small-sized object made mainly of plastic?

      Answer a few questions first:
      1. Will the gunner of this 2M3 "halabuda" be able to see the plastic UAV in time, especially at night?
      2. How is this “structure” better than the ZU-23 installed on the same MT-Lb?
      3. Where will the Marines get 25mm ammunition, will it also be delivered from Vladivostok?

      Where the Marines should be sent is to the Crimea or to the defense of the Kherson region, and the Black Sea Fleet should take over all supplies.
      1. 0
        March 11 2023
        Answer a few questions first:

        Well... if you please.
        The answer to the first question is that the gunner will see the UAV at night in the same way that the UAV operator sees the terrain. Naturally, this thing will work in conjunction with the Burdock radar, which is already in series, but the night light is at your discretion.
        The answer to the second question is that they apparently took what was available in large quantities.
        The answer to the third question is that I do not serve in the General Staff.
  64. +1
    March 11 2023
    It is foolish to deny that now the problem of countering small and ultra-small UAVs is at its fullest. For too long, air defense has developed according to the principle of “further, higher, faster” following aviation.
    But such ersatz will not help much. The caliber is too high for the intended purposes, and there is no guidance system as such.
    Currently, the real problem is from UAVs, for the destruction of which even duck shot is enough. In my opinion, the optimal solution would be to launch a series of ZSUs of the ZSU-57-2 type, the standard armament of which will be supplemented with YAKB-12,7 and GShG-7,63 machine guns.

    Nor are 57 mm shells necessarily of the shrapnel type.
    1. +1
      March 13 2023
      YAKB-12,7 they say they are very capricious...
      1. +1
        March 13 2023
        YAKB-12,7 they say they are very capricious...


        Not certainly in that way. This is an aircraft machine gun. And it does not forgive a neglectful attitude.
        And if the tape is assembled correctly, carefully assembled and, according to instructions, placed in a box, it will not fail.
  65. -3
    March 11 2023
    No matter how much we scoff at the authorities of the Far East, the Fleet command is trying to provide the Marines with everything they can. They wool all storage bases and sculpt, construct anything suitable for use on the battlefield.
    Here someone noticed that this installation can be hidden in a trench and at the right moment brought to a firing position and then hidden. There is a lot we don’t know, we don’t see. Maybe they have already adapted a normal telescopic sight with a function for shooting in the dark.
    The commander, the driver, a couple of soldiers with MANPADS, flamethrowers and the actual artillery installation. We built this in the 70s on the border with China. True, instead of a motorcycle league there was a T-34 or KV.
    The new is the well-forgotten old. As Kalashnikov said, everything ingenious is simple, and everything simple is genius.
    We wish the crew of this installation success! soldier
  66. -7
    March 11 2023
    Dear commentators! How many potential enemies of the people are there among you! No less than among the state-monopoly “patricians”. Every second "military specialist" sprays poison. Thirty-three years of continuous robbery and betrayal have done their dirty work: the tragedy taking place in the country can be characterized as a Roman carrot for Russian townsfolk and townsfolk - “bread and circuses!” All plankton, both office and industrial, and loitering on the streets of Russian large cities, are fed, clothed and shod. And show him online
    - pure action, just like in the arena of the Colosseum, gladiators from the former USSR with the participation of foreign lovers of money and thrills perform with full refinement.
    But all this could end badly; fascism is not something to joke about. And Hitler’s concentration camps and gas chambers will seem like childish pranks compared to what modern fascists are able to come up with, relying on advanced technologies.
    That’s why the common people will not only fight on old motorcycle leagues with quite lethal 2M-3s and sixty-twos, but will also fight with three-line guns with five rounds per barrel. Because ordinary people will have nothing to pay off the colonialists, and the fate of the American Indians teaches us a lot.
    So, as Vladimir Semyonich sang, “... we will not die a painful life, we would rather live a certain death!”
    1. +3
      March 11 2023
      That’s right, only Vysotsky sang about the Soviet Motherland.
  67. +1
    March 11 2023
    Apparently there are large warehouse stocks for these 25 mm guns, so they decided to install them on MLTB
  68. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      March 12 2023
      Quote: Mikhail Krivopalov
      How to make such a fuss, isn’t it easier to take Shilka or Tunguska!?

      Easier. There's just nowhere to get them
  69. +1
    March 11 2023
    And considering that there are literally tons of shells for them, the rationalization proposal to equip already tracked vehicles with them seemed interesting to someone from the command.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the authors of the ratsukha are admirals and generals
    1. 0
      March 12 2023
      If only generals and admirals fought in this. hi
    2. 0
      March 12 2023
      There it was necessary to build a new carriage there, without that tall megatower (how to dig that in?).
      And you didn’t like the center of mass, and the suspension will be more intact.
      And the armor there is one hell of a lot less than that of the motorcycle league itself, it makes no sense.
  70. 0
    March 11 2023
    “I really want to hope that the barbette was at least somehow extended in length to the bottom of the motorcycle ski, otherwise the center of gravity would be at a dangerous height”
    =======
    This is serious??? The center of mass of the entire “tower + MTLB” system will not lower in any way if the base of the tower is attached to the bottom of the MTLB.
  71. 0
    March 11 2023
    The idea is a relatively cheap rapid-fire mobile firing point for working against air and ground targets at a range of 1-2 km. All sorts of modifications and modernizations with fashionable sights and other things - this already affects the cost. And then it’s easier to drive the old Shiloks to the front. If, of course, they are still in storage.
  72. The comment was deleted.
  73. -1
    March 11 2023
    They can only be used for defense, burrowing into the ground, leaving only a camouflaged tower with two barrels on top.
    1. 0
      March 12 2023
      That's exactly what it's intended for!
      .........,....
    2. 0
      March 12 2023
      One UAV throwing a grenade from a grenade launcher or f-1 will mow down the shooters in this tin open armored vehicle.
      So trading in bread is not an option.

      If it weren't for the UAV, it wouldn't have gone anywhere.
      That is, either very much to the rear, or to the front line and hammer on suppression, or the idea is not very good.
  74. +2
    March 11 2023
    How many strained comments about the necessity and usefulness of this craft, what amazing assumptions are made that the ersatz under discussion may have been equipped with a modern sight, etc., how good it is for suppressing enemy firing points and simply incomparable as an air defense installation against UAVs, helicopters and attack aircraft (!). All in order to justify the bad situation with the provision of troops with modern equipment (nonsense that on the LBS it is an excellent and weakly protected target and as an air defense installation it is no good because in both cases it is very difficult to hit anything with it)...
  75. +1
    March 11 2023
    But Russia has nuclear deterrent weapons that do not deter anyone.
  76. +2
    March 11 2023
    To combat UAVs, you don’t need anti-aircraft guns, which were developed in the 50s and turned out to be useless against almost all air targets.
    Against UAVs, we need modern long-range microwave guns with target detection and tracking systems.
    In fact, it should be a robotic complex that automatically detects and destroys UAVs in the area of ​​​​responsibility.
    And their admirals from the Far East would be better off sending the Marines anti-drone guns, they would bring many times more benefits.
  77. +7
    March 11 2023
    "We haven't started yet"....
    What's next?
    A cart with an AK-230 in a reindeer sled?
  78. -4
    March 11 2023
    A great thing where fire is needed.
  79. The comment was deleted.
    1. +1
      March 11 2023
      ZSU-23-4M4 is a modernized version of the installation with a new radar FCS (fire control system) and the ability to install the Strelets air defense system. The update of the control system is accompanied by the replacement of the existing radar with a newly created station based on a solid-state element base with an improved set of characteristics.
      The Strelets air defense system is designed to provide automated remote sequential launch of Igla type missile defense systems.
      An inexpensive upgrade of Shilok to the M4 level will undoubtedly help in the fight against UAVs much more than those “monsters”.
  80. +7
    March 11 2023
    A creation in the style of ISIS. Kurdish crafts are still at a higher level.

    There is a good tradition in the West: naming armored vehicles after commanders. "Abrams", "Leclerc", "Sherman", "Cromwell"... I propose to adopt it. And since this magnificent machine does not seem to have an official name yet, it is worth naming it in honor of the genius of military construction: “Shoigu”. And so that at the parade on May 9, the announcer would announce in a solemn voice: “... the column is headed by the formidable guardians of the sky, who have no analogues in the world of the Shoigu ZSU!
    1. +4
      March 11 2023
      it is worth naming it in honor of the genius of military development: “Shoigu”

      And I think that this combat unit should be named after our respected commander-in-chief; there were Joseph Stalin tanks in WWII. So let this most powerful installation be called Vladimir Putin
  81. 0
    March 11 2023
    Yes, we have already “disassembled” this product. If it hits the enemy, if it covers our guys, then it’s necessary. The main thing is at the right time, in the right place!
  82. +3
    March 12 2023
    With such a sagging suspension, I wonder how it will behave when shooting along the course, I have a feeling that targeted shooting is only possible with single shots, and the burst will be exclusively in the sky.
    1. -1
      March 13 2023
      The emphasis, most likely, is not on accuracy, but on “extinguishing”/pressing the enemy; why aren’t there servants behind the tank?
  83. +1
    March 12 2023
    It turns out that we are not switching to new types of weapons, but returning to old ones
  84. 0
    March 12 2023
    this is apparently the same weapon based on new physical principles
  85. +2
    March 12 2023
    Asymmetrical response to the Gepard ZSU?
  86. 0
    March 12 2023
    And the command won’t punish you for this?
    There, the chassis has been working perfectly since the installation of this bandura.
    And they haven’t even arrived to the front line yet...
  87. 0
    March 13 2023
    The stability of this installation will be ensured by loading the ammunition to capacity.
  88. The comment was deleted.
  89. The comment was deleted.
  90. 0
    March 13 2023
    For this armored car, only Ilyich is missing. What kind of wild trash is going on in the defense industry, since they have to rivet this squalor? And there is no one to blame, everything is in its place, only the chairs are changed periodically.
  91. The comment was deleted.
  92. +1
    March 14 2023
    For some reason it seems that it will be used as a tank, like there is armor, there is a cannon, that’s it, go ahead. (It is not a public discreditation of someone, or as it should be written now).
  93. +3
    March 14 2023
    The special operation breeds monsters: our MT-LBs with naval gun mounts

    What a shame. But be that as it may, this installation, the T-62 with protection from roof breakers welded on top and the Ural with handicraft armored logs should be shown at the Army 2024 exhibition. The country should know its heroes, and citizens should understand what it takes to fight against the high-tech West.
  94. The comment was deleted.
  95. 0
    March 16 2023
    Ersatz, of course, thanks to those leaders who ignored the threats from UAVs, and the troops had nowhere to go, apparently there weren’t even any stashes left in storage since it came to this.
  96. 0
    March 17 2023
    I have never seen such devices in museums. Firestarter. Straight up shaitan-arba.
  97. 0
    March 17 2023
    Cut this nonsense. Place them on a railway platform, reinforce the sides with armor and sandbags, etc. Give these platforms for armored trains in the Northern Military District zone. And let the MTLB artillerymen carry guns, which is what it’s designed for
  98. 0
    March 20 2023
    Non Importa Gli Anni ho il Pezzo di di Antiquariato L´Importante che Uccida piu Ukronazi Possibili
  99. 0
    March 23 2023
    People who write that the installation will be protection against drones, how do you imagine this? Manual, drive, sight - sector circle, rate of fire is minimal, no remote detonation, bursts are only short, because there is no cooling, no stabilization of the gun, and only 130 rounds of ammunition. Here the shells, with their guidance systems, are difficult to hit the drone with guns.
    Don’t indulge yourself with illusions - the installation was made for the sole purpose - to have at least something large-caliber on a tracked track right now, because... Modern technology is simply not enough.
  100. 0
    April 17 2023
    Every time I see this Frankenstein, I feel a mixed feeling of shame and anxiety. It begins to seem that our army has nothing left to fight with and all sorts of homemade products have been used, as in Germany in April-May 1945, and it becomes ashamed of our rear, which was unable to protect its soldiers with decent armor and fire, sending them to war with Euro-gay fascists.
    is it so bad?
    By the way, this pepper shaker is loaded with two belts of 65 rounds, if you shoot single, and in turn from each barrel, then it will be enough for a while, but what to do in a real battle?
    I once loaded a ZU-23 in the army, as they say, the chimney is lower and the smoke is thinner, but with a box of 45 rounds of 23 mm cartridges, you don’t have much use, and it’s convenient to load, the “naked” gun ran up, pulled out the empty one, threw it back, the full one shoved into the nest and jumped away.
    And here?
    In a jump, or something, and pseudo-armor all around, is this protection from loaders?
    I don’t want to believe in bad things, but my eyes say the opposite, T-54, T-55, T-62, these machine guns from the Second World War...
    What's next?
    Slings, clubs, bows?
    And the question is, did the father-commanders, who gave the go-ahead for the use of this, sorry, weapon, understand that they would hit this birdhouse with everything in a row, but it couldn’t even hold a bullet?
    Moreover, with virtually no hope of giving a worthy answer, the machine operates within line of sight and only if it does not shoot, because behind the smoke there is nothing at all visible along the way.
    Is this our version of the kamikaze man?
    Convince me and tell me where I am wrong, I beg you, otherwise I just feel sorry for those who will be killed in these booths.

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