Knights in color

134
Knights in color


Sweet to me is the joy of spring days,
And fresh leaves and flowers
And in the green of thick branches
The sound of clear voices,
A flock of birds huddle there.
Miley - eyes on the meadows
Count the tents here and there
And, waiting for the fight,
Glide through the ranks of knights
And saddled horses.

Bertrand de Born. Translation by V. Dynnik

History Middle Ages. The textbook of the history of the Middle Ages for the 6th grade says that at first the main armor of the knight was chain mail, which was then replaced by metal armor. But it doesn't say when or how it happened. And then there are legends that the knights recovered right in armor and all sorts of other absurdities.



But the most interesting thing is that with this approach, a whole period disappears from the military history of the Middle Ages, when chain mail, and later armor, was hidden by bright and elegant clothes. Actually, there is nothing at all about this in the textbook, and after reading it, one gets the impression that the Middle Ages were a dark and completely wild time, and people were absolutely rude and ignorant. And although this was indeed the case, not everyone was like that at that time. Well, as for the brightness and colorfulness of clothes, this may well argue with the so-called New Time.

However, it is precisely in this matter - when the knights had chain mail “under the bottom”, and colorful robes covered it from above, there is no exact clarity. So let's consider this issue today using the examples of all the same medieval book miniatures that are already quite familiar to us. So…

The first example of patchwork clothing that we know was a caftan on Bishop Odo from Bayesian Embroidery. All the other warriors, including Guillaume Bastard himself, are shown in naked chain mail, but here he is in something that is embroidered with triangles, like a peasant blanket. It is unlikely that it was a fabric with such a pattern, although who knows.

Then came a whole century of naked chain mail. There is more and more mail armor on the warriors, it already covers the arms, legs, and head, but no one even thought of putting something on top of the chain mail attire. Naturally, the "color of the knight" was not too bright at that time, the dark color of the metal, and maybe with a brown tint due to rust. After all, he didn’t always have a barrel for cleaning chain mail at hand, and no one canceled the rain and fog during the then wars!


But here is an image of a warrior, dating back to the first half of the 1226th century. "Bible" 1250-XNUMX England. Municipal Library of Angers

He wears only chain mail armor, although, as we know, at that time the crusaders already went on crusades, visited the hot sun of Palestine and began to wear robes over chain mail like a long caftan - a surcoat. When with sleeves, and when without sleeves. So - someone at that time did without this important detail of the costume.

And if there were no clothes on the rider, then no one put anything on the horse. And at the same time, it was during this period that horse blankets appeared on horseback. The only question is what appeared first - a surcoat on a rider or a blanket on a horse?

And here miniatures from the Pomplon Illustrated Bible come to our aid. It dates back to 1200, and in its miniatures we see many horsemen. And they are all in chain mail from head to toe, including chain mail stockings, and long sleeves of haubergs with gloves woven into them, but none of them is wearing a surcoat. But their horses are almost all in blankets! True, on one warrior on the right in the miniature below, something like a caftan is visible, but basically all the horsemen, unlike the foot soldiers, are in chain mail.


Pomplonskaya "Illustrated Bible and Lives of the Saints", 1200 Pamplona, ​​Spain. University Library in Augsburg


Another illustration from Pomplon's Illustrated Bible and Lives of the Saints. Riders and foot soldiers

That is, in Spain, at least, blankets on horses appeared earlier than surcoats on riders. Very interesting, isn't it?

But, perhaps, this was typical only for Spain, while in other countries it was the surcoat invented before horse blankets?

Let's take a look at another miniature from the "Big Chronicle" by Matthew Paris.


It depicts the cowardly Hugues de Beauve running from the battlefield of Bouvines (1214) and being shot in the back by an arrow. True, he manages to substitute his shield. "Big Chronicle" by Matthew of Paris, c. 1250 Parker Library, Corpus Christi College, Cambridge

In this miniature, all the warriors, except for the Hyuuga himself, are dressed in chain mail. One of them has an embroidered blanket and patterned shields on his horse, but no one has a surcoat. Only one Hyug is dressed from head to toe, including his horse, in a coat of arms. That is, there were already coats of arms at that time. The drawing of the coat of arms was placed not only on the shield, but also on the surcoat, and on the horse blanket. But far from everyone. Even the horseman with the crown does not have a surcoat on his helmet, although he is clearly a knight, and not from the poor.

We look at the German sources.

Before us is the "Romance of Aeneas", and we see knights in closed helmets (an early form of the tophelm helmet) with helmet decorations and in a surcoat. But the blankets on their horses are clearly not heraldic, but ... armored, from plates in the form of squares sewn on some kind of base. By the way, in other miniatures the image of such blankets is not found, only in this one.


"The Romance of Aeneas", 1210-1220 Thuringia. Berlin State Library

That is, both horse blankets and surcoats appeared somewhere at the turn of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, but they made their way rather slowly.

We turn to another miniature, this time from the British manuscript of 1250 "Romance of Alexander", and in it we see that two noble knights cut off the heads of their horses, both of them dressed in a surcoat, but here the horse of one of them is naked - without a blanket, but the horse of the second is dressed not just in a blanket. On it is a blanket of chain mail!


Romance of Alexander, 1250 St. Albans, England, Cambridge University Library

Approximately the same years and another manuscript "The Life of King Edward the Confessor". In the illustration taken from it, we see a very interesting picture - a duel of two knights, two kings, and the one on the left is in heraldic attire, fully corresponding to this time, while on the horse of the second we again see a blanket of chain mail. That is, by 1250 such blankets had already come into use and were quite common.


"The Life of King Edward the Confessor", 1250-1260. Cambridge University Library

However, we also have another truly excellent source with exceptionally accurate images of medieval battles - the Maciejowski Bible, written around 1240-1250. There are a lot of battle scenes, so we will limit ourselves to one. On it we see riders in a surcoat, but only one has a blanket on a horse. In addition, the color of the blanket and surcoat fabric is different for everyone. That is, again, the passport of a knight of a surcoat and blanket, it turns out, was far from always at that time! By the way, not all characters are dressed in surcoats in the miniatures from the Maciejowski Bible. That is, someone already wore it, and someone else did not!


"Bible of Maciejowski, 1240-1250. New York Pierpont Morgan Library

As the days passed, the wearing of heraldic robes became a kind of sign of the times. But when exactly? Most likely, somewhere, again, at the turn of the centuries - XIII and XIV. This is proved by the fact that on the miniatures of the end of the XNUMXth century, almost all the knights are already dressed in surcoats, and their horses are in blankets.


But here we have an interesting miniature from a manuscript from the north of France. On it, someone clearly violated the rule of the left hand, that is, he depicted lions on a horse blanket in a “cowardly position”, that is, back to the enemy, while in this case it was customary to unfold the coat of arms on the right side of the blanket!


Well, by 1300, probably, most of the knights already looked like, for example, Falter von Metz from the miniature from the Manes Code ... "Manes Code", ca. 1300 Heidelberg University Library

Well, how long were chain horse blankets in use?

After all, we know that later, namely in the XNUMXth century, they were replaced by metal armor. Perhaps, in this case, we have a source of information. This is the famous "Book of the Queen" by Christina of Pisa, a French medieval writer of Italian origin. What this book of hers is about is not important for us now. We are curious about her illustrations, in particular, the one on which we see a horse in a saffron horse mask and a chain mail blanket, and beautifully carved. And here we see a horse in a cloth blanket and another knight, whose horse has a chain mail blanket, but for some reason only on the croup. Probably, he simply did not have enough money for a larger amount of chain mail weaving!


"Book of the Queen" by Christina of Pisa, 1410-1414 Paris. British Library, London

It is interesting that the year 1410 just serves as a kind of watershed between the “epoch of chain mail” and the beginning of the “epoch of white armor”, since just in that year armor began to appear in which the chain mail aventail was already absent on the helmet, and instead a plate collar appeared from a few details.


And here is another miniature from the same book, where the knight of this transitional time is depicted. Very accurately the artist conveyed his appearance. He is wearing completely “white armor”, but from under the bevor - a plate collar, still, by tradition (or out of habit), a chain mail aventail peeps out. Well, the horse has a metal saffron, but still a woven blanket

So there is only one conclusion from here - surcoats and horse blankets appeared somewhat at different times, but they began to dominate in the clothes of knights only by 1300, and it took more than 100 years for this!

And, of course, tournament attire - this colorfulness and brightness acquired quite early and for a very long time!


Here, by the way, is one of the examples of such tournament vestments from the manuscript “The Great Armorial of the Knights de la Toison”, 1429–1461. The miniature depicts sir Simon de Lalaing. National Library of France, Paris


And this is none other than the King of England. He has a beautiful outfit, doesn't he? Same source
134 comments
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  1. +7
    9 March 2023 03: 44
    in something that is embroidered with triangles, like a peasant blanket.
    Most likely this "something" was, like a peasant blanket, made using the patchwork technique - that is, sewn from rags and scraps of fabric. In those days, the fabric was quite an expensive pleasure and they tried to use it as economically as possible - now patchwork is practiced only in needlework circles.
    1. 0
      11 March 2023 09: 49
      Yes, there is absolutely no way without anglicisms .... So even Russian words are full of characterizing this sewing technique ....
  2. +7
    9 March 2023 06: 11
    Hello, friends! smile

    Yes, beauty and splendor!

    And with this beauty, without much effort, a clumsy piece of wood with a roughly forged iron pipe finished. laughing

    How the artist presented it. In my opinion, the distance could be more, though not by much.
    1. +8
      9 March 2023 06: 29
      Who is talking about what, and Uncle Kostya is again talking about his favorite volyns! )))
      Hi uncle! I will greatly disappoint you if I say that it was not the firearms that stopped the parade procession of the knightly cavalry, but the skills of tactical infantry control?
      1. +3
        9 March 2023 06: 47
        Hello Anton! smile
        did the parade procession of the knightly cavalry stop not by firearms, but by the skills of tactical infantry control?

        And what was the infantry armed with, with a drake or something? laughing

        1. +7
          9 March 2023 07: 08
          As far as I remember the history of the Middle Ages, for the first time the infantry successfully opposed the knightly cavalry in the battle of Legnano, this is 1176, what does the firearm have to do with it?
          1. +4
            9 March 2023 07: 19
            Once is not ... an indicator. But I will not argue, at that time you know much more than me. However, I will say that the firearms remained, and the knights died out, although today they still wear bulletproof vests in the troops. smile
            1. +8
              9 March 2023 07: 35
              Once is not ... an indicator.
              Courtray, Bannockburn, Crecy, Poitiers...
              1. +4
                9 March 2023 08: 03
                You beat ischo! wassat
                And so, it is very pleasant to watch your picks! drinks
                1. +3
                  9 March 2023 08: 19
                  I do not see a place for the lists. My uncle and I are "specialists" in different fields.
                  1. +4
                    9 March 2023 08: 44
                    My uncle and I are "specialists" in different fields.

                    Just like in that joke about Chapaev and karatekas: "Ki-ya, ki-ya ... with a bare heel on a checker!" laughing
                    In this case, with a piece of iron on a gun. wink
                    1. +2
                      9 March 2023 11: 51
                      "Ki-ya, ki-ya ... with a bare heel on a checker!"
                      Seems like this?



                      1. +3
                        9 March 2023 12: 29
                        Something like this. smile

                        And then Vasil Ivanovich happened nearby ...

              2. +6
                9 March 2023 10: 15
                Once is not ... an indicator.
                Courtray, Bannockburn, Crecy, Poitiers...
                Furne, Saint-Omer, Mont-en-Pevel, Kassel, Roozbek, Gawer, Cocherel, Pate, Formigny, Castillon, Marignano
            2. +3
              9 March 2023 08: 05
              I wonder what can replace firearms? Blaster in your pocket?
              1. +6
                9 March 2023 08: 17
                Field generator of nonlinearity of space BFG-9000.
                1. +4
                  9 March 2023 10: 41
                  Unfamiliar characters. What does this "astrolabe" do with space?
                  1. +4
                    9 March 2023 11: 15
                    What does this "astrolabe" do with space?
                    Rolls up.
                  2. +5
                    9 March 2023 12: 08
                    - She measures herself, - said the young man, passing the astrolabe to the buyer, - it would be something to measure.
                    laughing
                    1. +3
                      9 March 2023 14: 54
                      That's where the association comes from. Generation of Benders and Pitersky with Tuckers.
              2. +4
                9 March 2023 08: 31
                I had nothing to do with a blaster, but a machine gun would help the knight himself. wink



                Good morning, Sergey! smile
                1. +3
                  9 March 2023 10: 42
                  Good morning, Constantine!

                  Equipment is good.
                  But what is under the arm of this gentleman? Pillow? For what?
                  1. +3
                    9 March 2023 11: 12
                    What for?
                    And this is when the cartridges run out, he starts to fight with a pillow. There is no sword!
                    1. +2
                      9 March 2023 11: 15
                      Then some of your admirers instructed me the minuses, and the freak is not lazy. laughing
                    2. +6
                      9 March 2023 11: 37
                      Here is what I understand explained. All-around.

                      Only need to decide
                      How to decide you better:
                      Stun the chandelier
                      Al pillow to choke?..
                    3. +4
                      9 March 2023 14: 02
                      Another one sailed, at least collect them. laughing

                  2. +4
                    9 March 2023 11: 20
                    This is his hay bag, just beautiful. laughing
                    1. +4
                      9 March 2023 11: 38
                      It is inconvenient for horses to eat from such a bag. It's not a guinea pig.
                      1. +4
                        9 March 2023 12: 21
                        So this is a special horse, knightly. wink
                      2. +4
                        9 March 2023 14: 55
                        Such a head will not fit into the well. I don't even remember about the center of gravity.
                      3. +5
                        9 March 2023 15: 38
                        "Wrong center of gravity! Wrong form!" (C)

                      4. +3
                        9 March 2023 18: 04
                        What remains for the fans:

                        - Well, reasonable!
                        - It's scary.
        2. +6
          9 March 2023 10: 10
          And what was the infantry armed with, with a drake or something? laughing
          Imagine yes. If by dracole we mean long-armed weapons.
          And the knights were the first to use firearms - from the cannons of that time to smack on moving targets, i.e. knights, it was somehow inconvenient, but on stationary infantry or on a slowly moving battle - that's it. True, at first the horses were frightened.
          But then the combination of cannon + knights was used quite successfully, starting with Formigny.
      2. +6
        9 March 2023 12: 37
        Quote: Sea Cat
        And with this beauty, without much effort, a clumsy piece of wood with a roughly forged iron pipe finished.

        Quote: 3x3zsave
        the parade procession of the knightly cavalry was stopped not by firearms, but by the skills of tactical infantry control

        I agree with Anton.
        In other words, the heavy knightly cavalry was swept from the fields not by muskets and arquebuses, but by Swiss halberds and Spanish pikes.
        1. +4
          9 March 2023 18: 08
          the heavy knightly cavalry was swept from the fields not by muskets and arquebuses, but by Swiss halberds and Spanish pikes.

          Fu, no romance, one knife fight like in a port tavern. negative
          1. +5
            9 March 2023 18: 32
            It's just romance!
            Face to face, knives to knives, eye to eye

            Hryas - and in half, it will reach the ass, then it will fall apart on its own. Beauty! laughing
            And with a firearm - what kind of war? Everything is in smoke, you can’t see a damn thing, you shoot somewhere into the crowd, if they shout obscenities from there, then you hit it, but who the hell knows ... Otherwise, you look, it will fly in from nowhere, from nowhere, and God knows where. .. It's a shame...
            No, shoulder to shoulder with your comrades, hitting everyone who is in front of you with sharp pieces of iron is much more interesting, more romantic and more poetic.
            And that beautiful right now
            In the head of the ladies with a sharpened piece of iron ...
            1. +6
              9 March 2023 18: 51
              Artillery gives dignity to what would otherwise be an ugly fight
              Frederick II the Great
            2. +5
              9 March 2023 19: 33
              In! Below, Igor and Friedrich supported me in combat with the St. Petersburg gopniks. good
              1. +6
                9 March 2023 19: 41
                But who is he, this Friedrich? If at the very least I know Igor, Friedrich is not an authority for me at all. In general, he forced men to powder their braids - why listen to him? laughing
                1. +2
                  9 March 2023 20: 58
                  But who is he, this Friedrich?


                  "Macedonian? Who is this?! Why don't I know?!!!" (c)

                  I can't help. True, I agree, everything is not without oddities: one powdered the braids, the other chopped the beards with an ax. request
              2. +3
                9 March 2023 19: 48
                Professionals
                crime judge
                Neither boxing does not count, nor an evil scuffle.
                And with them twenty years
                who could compete
                How to fight as a student
                With selected punks?!
              3. +3
                9 March 2023 19: 59
                In my opinion, the Ryazan Principality has become a little sick ...)))
                1. +4
                  9 March 2023 20: 46
                  Yeah, it, this principality was in full swing when it never occurred to anyone even from a wild hangover to build a city on a mosquito swamp. laughing
                2. +4
                  9 March 2023 20: 48
                  Let's not be snobs, Anton. Uncle Kostya is an artist, this is how he sees us...
                  1. +3
                    9 March 2023 21: 12
                    Okay, Michael, let's not. Let's not mess around in vain.
                  2. +2
                    9 March 2023 21: 27
                    Uncle Kostya is an artist, this is how he sees us...


                    I see you as my friends. smile drinks
                3. +3
                  9 March 2023 21: 02
                  Lived up. They began to oat, akat and tremble.
                  1. +3
                    9 March 2023 21: 14
                    Survived.
                    There should be a minor pause here.)))
                    1. +4
                      9 March 2023 21: 23
                      I don't know how minor. I did not study either in gymnasiums or in music schools, but a pause suggests itself.

                      Actually, she is. And a sensitive ear picks it up.
                      1. +3
                        9 March 2023 21: 37
                        Yes, everything is simple: we are playing the fool! It's strange that you sometimes take this "battle" seriously.
                      2. +4
                        9 March 2023 22: 14
                        And every game has a seriousness. Periodically I remember about the book by Cortazar with that title.
                  2. +4
                    9 March 2023 21: 26
                    Oh, live, mother Russia,
                    It's too early for us to die!
                    The power of the cross is with us
                    And the heavenly army.
                    soldier
                    1. +4
                      9 March 2023 22: 16
                      Forget poems and books
                      I will throw a bag over my shoulders,
                      Because in the fields the bastard
                      The wind sings more than to whom.
    2. +7
      9 March 2023 08: 05
      with this beauty

      And the horns on the helmet - a priori, from the experience gained? wassat )))
      1. +7
        9 March 2023 08: 37
        Question for knights. laughing



        Good morning, Lyudmila, with those who came! love
    3. +5
      9 March 2023 13: 53
      "with a roughly forged iron pipe."
      The emoticon at the end of the phrase is understandable. Not rough at all and definitely beautiful. V. Khorev describes it as follows:

      "Speculative conclusions, fueled by oriental trends, gradually took on flesh, and almost all trunks, except for the cheapest ones, began to be made using a fundamentally different technology. First of all, the purest, softest and most malleable metal, ductile and tear-resistant, was taken from it. A narrow ribbon was forged from it with a thickness slightly greater than the expected wall of the barrel.Then this strip was wound onto the mandrel so that the next turn slightly edged onto the edge of the previous one, ensuring tightness.
      After the resulting spiral was carefully forged directly on the bar, an excellent barrel was in the hands of the master, in which the viscous iron worked when fired at longitudinal (in relation to the fibers) tension. The strength of the products significantly exceeded that which the old method could provide, and it was this technology that was used later when winding Damascus.
      The Spaniards, Italians, French and, of course, the Germans were traditionally famous for making excellent trunks. So, in France, already in 1535, a real factory for the serial production of hunting weapons was founded. The most famous barrel maker was Nicholas Bis, court master of Philip V, King of Spain. Lazaroni Cominazzo and Lorenzo Lazarini were famous among the Italians, Georg Dax from Munich was famous among the Germans. Every good master put on
      products with their own brand, thereby certifying the guarantee of quality. Here are some of the great many famous and not-so-famous hallmarks that have survived to this day along with beautiful products.
  3. +4
    9 March 2023 06: 32
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Very interesting. But he stumbled on the drawing and comments: "They cut off the heads of their horses." And why do they do it?
    1. +8
      9 March 2023 06: 47
      If we judge the Western European knights according to the description of Anaut Guilhem de Marchand, made in 1170, we will immediately see that the horse blanket, saddle, shield and pennant at the end of the spear should have played the role of a "passport". There was no talk of any protective functions of this blanket (although it undoubtedly protected the horse from cold and rain) at that time. But just 100 years before that, in 1066, judging by the "embroidery from Bayeux", there were no horse blankets at all - and then they appeared.
      At the same time, at the very beginning, the goal that those who dressed their horses in blankets set for themselves was most likely one: to show the colors of their coat of arms by all available means. In the "Psalter of Latrell" of 1349 by the English knight Geoffrey Latrell, almost all of his equipment - a robe (surcoat, horse blanket, saddle, horse mask, helmet, helmet decoration, shoulder pads (epaulettes), pennant and shield) bears the image of his coat of arms . This emblem is also present in the clothes of his wife and daughter, who give him his helmet and shield. It is repeated on his equipment and clothes as many as 17 times!
      1. +4
        9 March 2023 16: 44
        Mon personal opinion - it is a mistake to associate the appearance of surcoat knights and blankets of their horses, even if they were made from the same material.
        A blanket as an element of a horse harness appeared in the Middle East and Central Asia long before the gentlemen of the Knights themselves. Moreover, it is necessary to distinguish the "potnik" as current from protective armor. I find it difficult to answer who first began to “armour” the four-legged friend, but protective elements made of boiled leather, chain mail and metal plates (bronze) and not only can be traced back to the era of chariots.


        The Sarmatians, Roxalans and Byzantines had armored horsepower. The horses of the famous cataphracts wore mail or scaly armor.
      2. +5
        9 March 2023 17: 23
        At the same time, at the very beginning, the goal that those who dressed their horses in blankets set for themselves was most likely one: to show the colors of their coat of arms by all available means.

        During the period of the Crusades, European states faced the problem of command and control of troops on the battlefield. In addition, a cape (surcoat) contributed to protection from the climatic realities of the hot south. In the north, it is more functional to put everything warm under chain mail. The main rule is not to lie down with a metal collar at minus 15. In the south, a cotton pad, if plus 30 is still happiness. The fabric on top of the armor is much more effective. Plus awareness. Initially, surcoats are worn by feudal lords (spear commander). Later, all the spear of the feudal lord. A cape on a blanket "in coat of arms" appears due to similar tasks. Surcoat is dying as an element of identification after the widespread appearance of banners, standards and pennants.
        By the way, surcoat is far from the know-how of the Middle Ages. For 9 centuries, a cloak and fibula were used for identification. The coat of arms surcoat arises as a necessity in the "grinding" of knightly detachments (spears).
        1. +6
          9 March 2023 18: 04
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          For 9 centuries, a cloak and fibula were used for identification.

          How can one not remember "Yakun the Blind" (who, in fact, could be just a handsome uncle) with his "golden luda", which is usually associated with a raincoat.
          At first, when there were few leaders, everyone was well known, and their squads were several dozen, at best a couple of hundred people - details of clothing and military equipment, then, when there were too many knights - coats of arms and surcoats, then, with an even greater increase armies and a return to ancient standards of numbers, standards and banners returned ...
          And yes, all this was necessary precisely for control on the battlefield.
          1. +4
            9 March 2023 19: 55
            Good evening Michael!
            I think the list of control and communication systems should be supplemented: drummers and flutists. Later, the institute of adjutants and orderlies appears. Yes, they forgot about the use of smoke and fires. The latter is not even a return to ancient times, but to the prehistoric era.
            1. +2
              9 March 2023 20: 52
              Hello, Vlad.
              I think the topic touched upon will quite draw on a series of articles. In the morning I would certainly develop it, but by the evening it’s not the same ... Home and in the cradle. smile
    2. +4
      9 March 2023 07: 35
      Quote from Korsar4
      their

      Of course, you need to remove yours. Jumped automatically.
    3. +6
      9 March 2023 07: 51
      Why are they doing this?
      Here, probably the more interesting question is, what do they do? Reenactors claim that it is very difficult to cut off something dressed in chainmail armor with a sword (!).
      1. +5
        9 March 2023 08: 08
        In general, I can’t imagine such a way of defeating a horse in a fight. And mutual.

        The first association is an excerpt from the Game of Thrones, which nevertheless got to me.
    4. +8
      9 March 2023 07: 58
      "They cut off the heads of the horses." And why do they do it?

      Can cause maximum damage to the enemy?
      At that time, one mounted knight was compared to 10 on foot.
      When, after the "battle of the golden spurs", the Flemings counted the losses of the enemy, they thoroughly counted only the killed knights' horses and knights. The beaten French infantry was not considered, from the word at all
    5. +6
      9 March 2023 08: 10
      Why are they doing that?

      Sergey, I was also terribly preoccupied and, without reading the comments yet, I asked almost the same question below, but from a different point of view. For the miniature refutes the version.
      1. +5
        9 March 2023 08: 15
        Noticed, Lyudmila Yakovlevna.
        We read in the same way.
        Or addiction to criticism has eaten into the blood.
        1. +6
          9 March 2023 09: 36
          I guess it's not a predilection for criticism, but a habit of paying close attention to details. Otherwise, the meaning of any phenomenon can pass by.
          1. +4
            9 March 2023 10: 38
            I agree. The trick can often hide in the details.
  4. +5
    9 March 2023 06: 55
    Interestingly, there are no ancient images showing that the ancient Greeks or Romans covered their horses with cloth blankets. But there are ancient Egyptian monuments (paintings and bas-reliefs), on which horses harnessed to chariots are covered with a light back blanket. It is unlikely that they had any other function than ... identification. Like, not someone rides such a chariot, but - himself!



    maybe the knights had such a motivation, IMHO?
    1. +4
      9 March 2023 08: 16
      Or maybe a blanket - to avoid unnecessary injuries to the horse's back?
      But when they began to put on chainmail stockings, it was then that they discovered that the horses were suffering and those who survived in the battle were also sick from injuring the skin with iron.
      1. +6
        9 March 2023 10: 14
        Or maybe a blanket - to avoid unnecessary injuries to the horse's back?

        A saddle blanket is used to protect the horse's back.
        A blanket is a blanket so that the horse does not freeze or the flies do not bite it - blanket in English.
        And to decorate the knight's horse, they used not just a blanket, but a caparison. By the way, a friend wrote above that caparison has no protective function. He is wrong.
    2. +1
      9 March 2023 17: 26
      Quote: Richard
      Interestingly, there are no ancient images showing that the ancient Greeks or Romans covered their horses with cloth blankets. But there are ancient Egyptian monuments (paintings and bas-reliefs), on which horses harnessed to chariots are covered with a light back blanket. It is unlikely that they had any other function than ... identification. Like, not someone rides such a chariot, but - himself!



      maybe the knights had such a motivation, IMHO?

      The key function is heat exchange. Even the use of mats was practiced.
    3. 0
      12 March 2023 06: 18
      But there are ancient Egyptian monuments (paintings and bas-reliefs), on which horses,

      very interesting management. Isn't that where the expression "wag your booty" comes from?
  5. +9
    9 March 2023 07: 17
    Fig. blankets and chain mail of knightly horses



    a photoHorse blanket of the king's horse, Sweden 1621
    1. +4
      9 March 2023 07: 37
      What good photos and illustrations you found. Thank you!
      1. +5
        9 March 2023 07: 45
        Thanks for the kind words, Vyacheslav
        I found a lot, but because of my meager knowledge on this topic, I ventured to insert the most neutral ones.
        Thank you for the article
  6. +6
    9 March 2023 07: 41
    Well, how long were chain horse blankets in use?
    After all, we know that later, namely in the XNUMXth century, they were replaced by metal armor


    The figure shows full horse armor. Style around 1510. The horses of ordinary knights and sergeants were covered with blankets made of leather or dense multilayer fabric. This defense was lighter, cheaper, and perhaps only slightly less effective. The same can be said about the knightly armor itself. Throughout the Middle Ages, only a small part of the cavalrymen wore full armor.
  7. +7
    9 March 2023 07: 58
    "The Romance of Alexander", and in it we see that two noble knights cut off the heads of their horses ...


    Vyacheslav Olegovich, be careful! wassat )))
    And then after all there will be a wrong idea about the content of the work. For example, two knights went crazy for some reason and chopped off the heads of their horses.
    The miniature refutes!
    Each of the knights cut off the head of the opponent's horse...
    Sorry about the horses. This is the first miniature on which I see such savagery.

    Well, in general, good morning and have a nice day everyone! )))
    Or how it goes.
    1. +3
      9 March 2023 08: 11
      In addition to “ours”, the word “Romance” also took place.

      And in the song you can get carried away in any way.

      The sun is shining. Good morning for now.
  8. +4
    9 March 2023 08: 24
    on the miniatures from the Maciejowski Bible, far from all the characters are wearing surcoats. That is, someone already wore it, and someone else did not!

    Haven't been robbed yet.
    Someone drives a Mercedes, and someone drives a Zaporozhets.
    1. +1
      9 March 2023 09: 27
      In the yard people are already pantyhose
      Drives cars out of shells
      Someone gets into a black Ferrari
      Someone crawls sideways into the Tavria.


      "Jedem das Seine" request
      1. +5
        9 March 2023 09: 50
        Right! To each his own!
        Oh ... nothing that I remember a little?
        I never learned to drive a car. Because, barely sitting behind the wheel of her father's "Victory" in the yard, she immediately crashed into a corner of the house. It's good that it's mine. My father kicked me out and wouldn't let me drive again. As I now understand, it was his mistake. You should have sat next to me, not stood next to me.
        And then, a little later, a horse crashed into a parked car. The drunken rider flew over and, since he was without chain mail and a helmet, and his hat fell off him, he was slightly injured. The horse is dead. The car too (soft-boiled motor). They blamed the father. It is clear why. And you can’t challenge me to a duel, those times were not the same, you can’t defend the truth in a duel. Actually, the times are the same.
        1. +3
          9 March 2023 10: 45
          (motor soft-boiled).

          Wow horse! Armored Percheron or what? The Pobeda itself has the thickness of iron like a tank.
          1. +1
            9 March 2023 11: 06
            Well, such was the speed of the overgrown idiot, therefore, the unfortunate horse. The bullet is small!
            But momentum:
            P = mv
            where
            m - body weight;
            v is the speed.
            Of course, a horse's speed, even the maximum possible, is not comparable with the speed of a bullet, but the mass is much superior.
            At the same time, the speed of the horse can be such that the momentum of the body of a rider with a mass of, say, 80 kg is such that, having flown over the head of a horse that hit an obstacle, the rider dies upon impact with the ground (thank God that this did not happen in my case) .
            I don't remember why Vronsky died in Anna Karenina, but something connected with the horse.
            And "Victory", crippled, had to be sold.
            I suspect to pay off the hot Caucasian rider. But at the time, that thought didn't cross my mind.
            In general, I must say, you overestimate many events over time.
            1. +5
              9 March 2023 11: 19
              The "hot Caucasian rider" lost his head somewhere anyway. laughing Although why should he be sad, it is still empty. request
            2. +3
              9 March 2023 16: 48
              "I don't remember why Vronsky died in Anna Karenina, but something connected with the horse."
              Do you really think that Vronsky did not live to see the end of the novel?
              1. +4
                9 March 2023 18: 13
                I remembered!!! :)))
                He did not die, he fell from the horse or along with the horse. Anna's fright and despair were so strong that she cried out. But not in the way outsiders usually scream in horror, but as those who experience grief from the possible loss of a loved one. Well, something like this reaction. That is how she gave herself away.
                Did I mess something up again?
                Reluctance to dig into the web to refresh your memory. And especially re-read the novel. At the time, he seemed surprisingly boring to me. Anna is not my heroine wassat )))
                1. +4
                  9 March 2023 19: 50
                  fell off the horse or along with the horse.
                  "Falling from a horse and falling with a horse are far from the same thing" (Yu. Samoilov)
                  1. +2
                    9 March 2023 20: 11
                    And what is more dangerous?
                    I figured: if the horse crushes ...
                    The battlefield is dangerous. You start to get out, and the enemy, brazenly and rather grinning, experiencing bloodthirsty feelings, will finish you, helpless.
                    Here, I drew a picture, and I myself became scared.
                    1. +2
                      9 March 2023 20: 23
                      It's more dangerous to fall from a horse in scuba gear
                      1. +2
                        9 March 2023 20: 40
                        Overlooked! They let him out of the madhouse, and forgot to put the scuba gear with the horse in the barn.
                        And Ivanushka - he is famous for something - a strong mind. laughing
                      2. +2
                        9 March 2023 20: 48
                        Well, the scuba gear is hardly in danger.
                      3. +1
                        12 March 2023 19: 09
                        Well, the scuba gear is hardly in danger.
                        The gearbox is broken. And, of course, nothing will happen to the cylinders, even if you hit them with your hooves.
                      4. 0
                        12 March 2023 19: 10
                        Anton, is this a mounted underwater Buryat commando?
  9. +1
    9 March 2023 08: 34
    We turn to another miniature, this time from the British manuscript of 1250 "Romance of Alexander", and in it we see that two noble knights cut off the heads of their horses, both of them dressed in a surcoat, but here the horse of one of them is naked - without a blanket, but the horse of the second is dressed not just in a blanket. On it is a blanket of chain mail!

    It is not at all a fact that the blanket is chain mail.
  10. +3
    9 March 2023 08: 39


    But the leather saffron muzzle...
  11. +1
    9 March 2023 08: 43
    But the blankets on their horses are clearly not heraldic, but ... armored, from plates in the form of squares sewn on some kind of base. By the way, in other miniatures the image of such blankets is not found, only in this one.

    Maybe easier? - Plain quilted fabric.
  12. +4
    9 March 2023 10: 00
    Yes, the ancient Egyptians had horse blankets. To signify the status of a rider. The Greeks did not use
    But technology tends to get lost. And how history presents a novelty - here, I quote:

    Sarmatians - rivals of the Scythians regarding everything related to military affairs, starting with long swords and heavy spears, and ending with ... horse armor, were probably the first to realize that, to protect their horses from arrows, they should be dressed in armor of metal scales. However, the Greek historian Xenophon wrote about the Persian horsemen, with whom he personally had to fight, as warriors wearing armor and having “special armor” covering their chest and head of their horses. In his "Kiroropedii" he wrote that he saw soldiers in the same purple clothes (here it is - the oldest uniform!), In bronze armor and helmets with white plumes ... Their armament consisted of a short sword and a pair of darts. Horses also had their bronze breastplates and caps.
  13. +3
    9 March 2023 10: 36
    I will assume that a woven robe over chain mail originally appeared not for battles, but for everyday travel and other movements in cities and forests. Hidden armor gave a chance that the robbers would hit in the protected part of the body, and not in the head or arms and legs. That is, gaining a couple of seconds, while the villain is surprised that it was not possible to pierce, there was time to get his weapon.
    1. +5
      9 March 2023 13: 02
      Quote: eule
      robe over chain mail did not originally appear for battles

      Initially - protection from the scorching sun of the Holy Land.
      In the future - to identify the knight on the battlefield.
      The "concealed wearing armor" hypothesis, of course, is original, but still too far-fetched. It seems that it was the knights who suffered the least from the attacks of any criminal element. smile
      1. +4
        9 March 2023 13: 27
        I remembered the plot of Uncle Drew "Knights against gopniks".)))
        1. +5
          9 March 2023 13: 39
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Uncle Drew

          Bru. Uncle Bru. laughing
          Considering how a person wields a halberd, and how he loves to beat people, I strongly recommend that you be extremely sensitive to such trifles. smile
      2. +1
        12 March 2023 06: 30
        It seems that it was the knights who suffered the least from the attacks of any criminal element.

        Just the opposite.
        1. A knight-errant - a safe passing through your "zone of responsibility". Rob their own, they can identify and pile on later.
        2. And who else to rob? Here is a wolf, from a fairy tale about Little Red Riding Hood, what could he count on? For cakes and wine...
  14. +4
    9 March 2023 10: 50
    And here's an interesting fact.
    Horses that often wear blankets are more likely to get sick than those that don't have blankets at all.
  15. +3
    9 March 2023 12: 51
    The first example of patchwork that we know was a caftan worn by Bishop Odo from Bayesian Embroidery.

    Disputes around this "caftan" among historians are still going on.
    One of the versions - there was no caftan on Odo. It’s just that he, as the customer of the tapestry, asked him to highlight it somehow, or the “performers” showed such an initiative.
    1. +4
      9 March 2023 13: 15
      Quote: sergej_84
      he, as the customer of the tapestry,

      The fact that Odo was the customer of the carpet is also nothing more than a hypothesis, and a relatively recent one at that. Wilhelm's wife is still considered the most likely customer.
  16. +2
    9 March 2023 14: 48
    And more:

    one example of such a tournament vestment from the manuscript "The Great Armorial of the Knights de la Toison", 1429-1461. The miniature depicts sir Simon de Lalaing. National Library of France, Paris


    I would not refuse to explain that this is messier with a face - on the penultimate miniature. And what about the face of the king - on the last)))
    1. +3
      9 March 2023 15: 03
      These are tournament helmets for sword fighting.
      1. +3
        9 March 2023 15: 45
        Thank you, Anton!
        These helmets look weird. I have never seen such. The parts that cover the face are like silk flounces. What just did not come up with!
      2. +4
        9 March 2023 16: 12
        Anton, what is the benefit of just such a helmet, compared to, say, a combat one?
        No, I am aware that a tournament helmet for "spear combat" is much heavier and more massive than a combat one, but what's the difference here?


        Found here are a few tournament options.


        1. +2
          9 March 2023 16: 16
          Usually tournament helmets were calculated for a certain type of weapon. Combat helmets have more versatile protection.
        2. +5
          9 March 2023 16: 29
          This one is for foot tournament combat. The thumbnails look like this
          1. +2
            9 March 2023 16: 42
            The knights in my picture, who fight on horseback, seem to have helmets exactly like yours.
            So what is the difference?
        3. +5
          9 March 2023 16: 40
          Quote: Sea Cat
          and what's the difference here?

          There is no need to defend against spear attacks, arrows, etc. Only from slashing and deafening blows. Therefore, it became possible to improve visibility, breathing conditions.
          1. +4
            9 March 2023 18: 23
            I get it now. Thanks Misha! smile

            A little black humor. bully

        4. +5
          9 March 2023 16: 41
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Found here are a few tournament options.

          As far as I understand, these are all helmets for fighting with clubs. hi
          1. +4
            9 March 2023 16: 45
            Quote: Mihaylov
            club fighting helmets

            Or halberds.
          2. +4
            9 March 2023 16: 48
            By the way, yes. This armor also had a plate skirt "bell".
            1. +3
              9 March 2023 18: 20
              . This armor also had a plate skirt "bell".

              You finished me off with these suits!
              Have fun from the heart! wassat )))
              1. +3
                9 March 2023 20: 04
                As far as I'm concerned, it's not funny. This is how it looks.
                1. +1
                  9 March 2023 20: 39
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  As far as I'm concerned, it's not funny. This is how it looks.

                  The most famous such armor belongs to Henry VIII
                  1. +1
                    9 March 2023 20: 47
                    No, Sergei. Heinrich, of course, was greedy for women and armor, but this is definitely not a foot tournament armor.
                    1. +2
                      9 March 2023 21: 04
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      but this is definitely not a foot tournament armor.

                      Shpakovsky claims the opposite:
                      https://topwar.ru/94898-dospehi-korolya-mnogozhenca.html
                      1. +4
                        10 March 2023 00: 02
                        Shpakovsky claims the opposite:
                        https://topwar.ru/94898-dospehi-korolya-mnogozhenca.html

                        And the senior curator of the armor department of the Royal Armories Museum, which is Karen Watts, claims that Shpakovsky’s statement is not true and Henry VIII’s “most famous similar armor” looks like this. By the way, museums of this level never demonstrate armor for foot combat, hoisting it on a horse.



                        You can read about the armor here - https://royalarmouries.org/stories/object-of-the-month/object-of-the-month-for-april-henry-viiis-foot-combat-armour/

                        And learn about Karen Watts here - https://boydellandbrewer.com/bb-medieval-herald-medieval-tournament/
                      2. Fat
                        +1
                        10 March 2023 01: 54
                        Quote: sergej_84
                        Karen Watts, claims that Shpakovsky's statement is not true

                        hi Sergey, Well, what can I say, except that you either didn’t read the article or didn’t understand ...
                      3. +3
                        10 March 2023 08: 26
                        I just carefully read Shpakovsky's article. In a paragraph
                        The king was very fond of foot fights, so the first armor (around 1515) was made for him specifically to participate in them. All its details are adjusted to each other in the most careful way, so that the armor resembles not so much armor as a real work of art. They are decorated with an engraving, the plot of which was the marriage of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon in 1509.

                        the author describes the engraved silver-plated armor shown in the third illustration, that are not armor for foot combatalthough the author claims otherwise.
                        Further, the author gives a description of the armor for the horse, which was called the Burgundian bard, but does not give his photograph.

                      4. +1
                        10 March 2023 08: 54
                        Quote: Thick
                        Sergey, Well, what can I say, except that you either didn’t read the article or didn’t understand ...

                        Yes, I seem to understand everything, and Shpakovsky's article basically states:
                        Only in the Royal Arsenal of the Tower of London are stored four armor belonging to Henry VIII at once. The fifth armor is in Windsor Castle, and two more, which, according to experts, also belong to Henry VIII, are owned by the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

                        The photo posted by comrade sergej_84 is a completely different armor of Henry VIII, and both of these armor are described in Shpakovsky's article. True, I did not understand why "armor on a horse" was named in the article "Silver and engraved armor of Henry VIII from the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York", since, as far as I understand, they are stored in the Tower.
                        You can read about it for example here:
                        https://vk.com/doc-179426715_656250154?hash=kPNfeTbZY4BXmzDFSAqGZAKHRAvkPIEROT1RuH2TAQX
                      5. +1
                        10 March 2023 08: 40
                        Quote: sergej_84
                        The "most famous similar armor" of Henry VIII looks like this.

                        We are talking about different armor: the photo you posted is another armor belonging to Henry VIII, and in Shpakovsky's article, by the way, both of these armor are described separately. True, I did not understand why "armor on a horse" was named in the article "Silver and engraved armor of Henry VIII from the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York", since, as far as I understand, they are stored in the Tower.
                        You can read about it for example here:
                        https://vk.com/doc-179426715_656250154?hash=kPNfeTbZY4BXmzDFSAqGZAKHRAvkPIEROT1RuH2TAQX
                2. +1
                  9 March 2023 20: 41
                  Exactly! There is nothing funny. A terrible nightmare. wassat
                  1. +1
                    9 March 2023 20: 52
                    PT-76 is an even more terrible nightmare, and nothing, people served ...
                3. +3
                  9 March 2023 21: 01
                  Oh, how!
                  Impressed ... I wonder if you make rhythmic movements with your feet, will the believers come running?
                  Sorry, Anton, I'm not a serious person)))