Medieval ships and medieval miniatures

127
Medieval ships and medieval miniatures
A typical Hanseatic cogg is what is depicted in this miniature from the manuscript “Roman de Brut; Edward III; Destruction of Rome; Firabras", 1325-1350. England. British Library, London


We passed Cyprus
leaving it on the left and heading for Syria.
We landed at Tire,
because there is our ship
had to leave the cargo.

Acts of the Apostles, 21:3

History in medieval miniatures. It just so happened that the medieval miniaturists, drawing up their manuscripts, reflected in their illustrations almost all aspects of the life around them. And one of its important points was ... transport links between countries and individual cities.



It is clear that most people at that time traveled by land. But the attacks of robbers and the hardships of a long journey on bad roads were so great that there were many people who preferred to move and transport their goods by sea. In coastal areas, fishermen went out to sea, so the art of building boats and ships did not die at all after the collapse of the powerful Roman Empire and the death of the Western Roman Empire in 476.

True, maritime trade in the Mediterranean basin was then in decline. The former art of building magnificent sailing and rowing triremes and penthers has also been forgotten. Yes, they were, in general, now they are not needed. After all, who now opposed all the same Byzantium, which remained an outpost of civilization among the boundless sea of ​​barbarian tribes that flooded Europe? The Slavs on their one-tree boats were dangerous only in their numbers. But the famous "Greek fire" was enough to fight them - a combustible mixture that continued to burn even on water. The Arabs, who annoyed the Byzantines a lot, also could not resist the "Greek fire", even if they already had ships with sails.

But in the north of Europe, and above all in Scandinavia, there were no land roads at all, and here ships became the main means of communication. It was in these places that the Normans lived - North Germanic tribes, excellent shipbuilders, sea pirates, warriors and merchants, who played an important role in the history of many states and peoples of Europe.

Thanks to the finds of archaeologists who dug up entire ships of the Viking leaders *, who for a long time kept the whole of Europe in fear, we know that the northerners built two types of ships at that time: combat ships - drakkars, called "long ships", and merchant ships - knorrs, smaller in size. sizes and shorter. Knorrs were in use throughout the Viking Age; during the settlement of Iceland, they could carry up to 30 tons of payload, and later, in the 50th century, the Norwegians went to Iceland already on knorrs with a payload of up to XNUMX tons.

On the first Viking drakkars, benches for rowers were not yet equipped. During the calm of the sea, they rowed with oars, sitting on their chests. The presence of a large sail gave these ships unprecedented speed for those times. Having met other people's ships at sea, the Vikings usually took them on board.

So swimming in the IX-XI centuries. along the coast of the North and Baltic seas was fraught with considerable danger, not to mention the fact that in their shallow-draft ships they even climbed up the Seine and kept Paris under siege for nine months! Well, then they completely conquered part of the coast from the French king, where they then founded their own duchy - Normandy and managed to get on their ships even to North America!

Here are just images of these "long ships" in miniatures in medieval manuscripts for some reason is not found. The only artifact where you can see them, and even at the stage of construction, is the "Bayeux tapestry", but historians were not lucky with their images in miniatures.


One of the earliest depictions of a medieval European ship full of warriors with almond-shaped shields, dated to 1000-1100 BC. Saint Aubin, France. National Library of France, Paris

But in the northern seas, by the XNUMXth century, drakkars had already ceased to swim. New ships appeared - pot-bellied, high-sided single-masted sailboats, which served primarily for the transport of goods. They were called "round ships" - coggs (from the ancient German luigg - round). They could not swim at high speed, but they carried a large load, which was required by the merchants, who were gradually strengthening their position. In addition, the design and rigging of the coggs was such that they provided these ships with excellent stability when they were heavily loaded.


This miniature depicts a ship with the extremities decorated with various bird heads. However, it already has a trebuchet - a combat throwing machine. That is, the size of this vessel already allowed to install such weapons. "Romance of Alexander", 1250 St. Albans, England. Cambridge University Library

A characteristic feature of the North Sea coggs was tower-like platforms - castles ("castles") - on the bow and on the stern for archers. Moreover, ship castles were installed both on military and merchant ships. Exactly in the middle of the ship was a mast assembled from several logs. A special “barrel” was attached to the mast for observers and archers, equipped with a block system to lift ammunition up. Later, the “barrel” was structurally improved on karakkas and was called mars, which could accommodate up to 12 archers or crossbowmen.


An important technical achievement of the shipbuilders of Northern Europe was the rudder mounted on the rear stem and controlled by a tiller. Miniature from a manuscript from northern France, 1280–1290. National Library of France, Paris

Strong frames at a distance of 0,5 m from each other, oak plating 50 mm thick and a deck laid on beams - the transverse beams of the hull set, the ends of which were often brought out through the plating - these are the important features of these ships. The rudder was also a novelty, replacing in the 30th century the steering oar, which was located on the side of the board, and straight, strongly beveled to the keel line of the stems - the bow and stern ends of the vessel. The stem began to end with an inclined mast - a bowsprit, which served to stretch the sail in front. The largest length of the cogs of the Hanseatic Trade Union was approximately 20 m, the length along the waterline was 7,5 m, the width was 3 m, the draft was 500 m, and the carrying capacity was up to XNUMX tons.


The fact that tower-like superstructures-castles on the bow and stern already appeared on ships at that time is evidenced by many miniatures, and this one is one of them! "Lancelot Cycle" 1290-1300 France. Bodleian Library, Oxford University

It is interesting that many large ships of that time, as well as modern ferries and car carriers with horizontal unloading, were equipped with side ports that served to load and unload goods. This allowed them to take cargo on deck and at the same time unload the goods brought through the same port.

In the second half of the 300th century, two-masted, and later even three-masted coggs appeared. Their displacement was 500–28 tons. To protect themselves from pirates and enemy ships, Hansa merchant ships had on board crossbowmen and even several bombards, powerful artillery pieces for that time that fired stone cannonballs. The length of military coggs reached 8 m, width - 2,8 m, draft - 500 m, and displacement - XNUMX tons or more.

At the stern and in the bow of the commercial and military coggs, high superstructures were still located. In the Mediterranean, there were sometimes two-masted coggs with slanting sails. At the same time, despite all the improvements, coggs remained coastal ships - suitable for navigation only near the coast. Meanwhile, Europe needed more and more spices, and their flow through the ports of the Mediterranean began to dry up due to the fact that even before the fall of Constantinople in 1453, the Turks captured all the coasts of Syria and Palestine, as well as North Africa, and began to interfere with European trade.


Miniatures depicting medieval Byzantine galleys with a ram on their bows have survived to our time. "Alexander's Tale", 1300-1350 Archives of the Hellenic Institute of Byzantine and Post-Byzantine Studies in Venice

Byzantine galleys, known since the XNUMXth century, were warships with one or two rows of oars and one or two masts with oblique triangular sails. There were two steering oars, as before, and a ram protrusion was still preserved in the bow. However, now it was practically not used anymore, since the Byzantine galleys, in addition to traditional throwing machines, also had on board installations for launching their mysterious fire mixture - “Greek fire”. A lot of its recipes have come down to us, so it is difficult to say which of them the Byzantines themselves used. But its long and stable flammability (it could not be extinguished) is beyond doubt.

The main feature of both large and small ships of the Mediterranean were, as already noted, triangular, or “Latin”, sails: they created a “wing effect” and allowed them to move at an angle to the direction of the wind (up to 30 degrees relative to the axis of the vessel). Such a sail converts even the lightest breeze into useful thrust. The size of ships grew especially during the era of the Crusades of 1096-1270, when it was necessary to transport many heavily armed crusaders, soldiers and pilgrims from Europe to Palestine across the sea.


The Venetian nave is a ship of pilgrims and crusaders. "The Romance of Tristan", 1320-1330 Milan, Italy. National Library of France, Paris

The galleys, most of which were occupied by slave rowers chained to their benches, could not transport crusaders and pilgrims to Palestine. Therefore, Mediterranean shipbuilders began to build huge, clumsy, but very heavy-lifting naves. They had a sheathing, but Latin sails were used, and the hulls had residential superstructures for passengers rising 10–15 m above the water. In the stern there were two short and wide steering oars. The crew of the naves consisted of a committee with a silver whistle for giving commands; the patron who controlled the sails; a pilot plotting a course; two helmsmen and physically strong rowing galliots.


A naval battle allegedly taking place in ancient times "before Caesar". In fact, Mediterranean ships of the 1325th century are depicted here. Miniature from the manuscript "Ancient history before Caesar". 1359–XNUMX Naples, Italy. British Library, London

The voyage from Venice to Jaffa in Palestine lasted ten weeks. Pilgrims who have already visited the Holy Land recommended that those departing take with them their blanket, pillow, clean towels, a supply of wine and water, crackers, as well as a cage with birds, pork hams, smoked tongues and dried fish. On the ships, all this was given out, but, as the pilgrims said, linen and towels were stale, rancid crackers - hard as a stone, and even with larvae, spiders and worms; and the wine was more like vinegar. But more often they talked about the need to take incense with them, because on the decks in the heat there was an intolerable stench from horse manure, since horses and the feces of pilgrim passengers who suffered from seasickness were also transported on these ships. The decks were covered with sand, but it was raked out only upon arrival at the port.

On the approach to the island of Rhodes, shipbuilders could encounter pirates, from whom they often paid off. During the trip, there were cases of death of passengers from diseases. And yet, despite all the difficulties, voyages to the shores of the Middle East and Africa were made more and more often. During the journey, wealthy passengers allowed themselves luxurious meals and entertainment. They took with them pages, a butler and a valet, and even musicians who entertained them during meals. Along the way, the pilgrims landed on the island of Corfu, where they hunted goats. We also landed on other islands: to stretch our legs and rest.


Image of a Mediterranean ship with a steering oar and a "crow's nest" on the mast. Miniature from the manuscript "Ancient History before Caesar". 1325–1359 Naples, Italy. British Library, London

At the same time, very many ships in the Mediterranean were built with flat planking, in which the boards were tightly fitted with edges one to one, and did not overlap, as with the Vikings, on coggs and on Venetian naves. With this method of building a vessel, building material was saved, since half as many boards were required for the hull, and most importantly, ships with such plating were lighter and faster. New methods of construction, spreading throughout Europe, contributed to the emergence of new ships. In the first half of the XNUMXth century, the carakka became the largest European ship used for military and commercial purposes.


If you look closely at medieval illustrations with ships, it becomes obvious that the artists who painted them did not at all care about depicting them on a scale in relation to the figures of people, and indeed, they painted them as they wanted. In general, they are quite accurate in some details, but no more. Their role in miniatures is always subordinate to the people depicted. And here is one example of this approach: a miniature from the manuscript "The Lives of Saints Edmund and Fremund", 1433-1434. Bury St Edmunds, England. British Library, London


An absolutely fantastic depiction of the characters of the Trojan War and ... an equally fantastic depiction of a ship. "History of the Trojan War", 1441 Germany. German National Museum, Nuremberg


One of the most realistic depictions of a ship. "The Conquest and Conquerors of the Canary Islands", 1405 Paris, France. Bodleian Library, Oxford University

She had developed superstructures at the bow and at the stern, covered from above with special roofs made of beams, on which fabric was pulled to protect against the sun, and a net to protect against boarding. She did not allow enemies to jump onto the deck from the superstructures of her ship and at the same time did not interfere with shooting at them. The sides of this ship were bent inward, which made boarding difficult.

The length of such a carrack could reach 35,8 m, width - 5,7 m, draft - 4,1 m, carrying capacity - 540 tons. The crew of the vessel: 80–90 people. Trade carracks had 10-12 cannons each, and the military ones could have up to 40! Such ships have already gone on long and long voyages. Later, according to the type of caracques and coggs with three masts and smooth plating, in Europe in the XNUMXth century they began to build caravels - ships of the era of the Great Geographical Discoveries.


"Battle of the Sluys". Miniature from the "Chronicle" by Jean Froissart, which contains, perhaps, the most realistic depictions of ships of the XNUMXth century. National Library of France, Paris

It is believed that the first ship of this kind was built by a French shipbuilder, Julian, at the shipyards of the Zuider Zee in Holland in 1470. The ships of Columbus "Pinta" and "Nina" were also caravels. But his flagship "Santa Maria" (in his notes he calls it "nao" - "big ship"), most likely, was a karakka, which means that it belonged to the same "round" ships.

* Where did the word "Viking" come from, scientists are still arguing. It is also translated as “children of the bays” - from the Norwegian word “vile” - “bay”, and from the Norman root, the meaning of which comes down to the Russian word “wander”. One way or another, we are talking about people who left their home and hearth for a long time and went on distant voyages under the guidance of their military leader - the king. It is possible that they were called Vikings if they wanted to talk about their characteristic way of life, and Normans when they emphasized that they belonged to the peoples of the North. After all, "Norman" in translation from Old Norse just means "northern man."
127 comments
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  1. +6
    3 March 2023 04: 11
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

    Sailing ships have been fascinating since childhood. I want to see them in all their manifestations.
    1. +5
      3 March 2023 04: 36
      Good morning, friends!
      Thanks Vyacheslav for the essay!
      I fully support Sergey, although the era described by the Author is considered “transitional from oar to sail”.
      Another thing is curious. I remember in the late 80s they savored the “space regatta under sails” for a long time, due to the “solar wind” for the 500th anniversary of the discovery of America .. The topic somehow died, but it's a pity.
      1. +5
        3 March 2023 04: 49
        Vladislav, I agree.

        Only most definitions limit. There is a sail - we can say that it is sailing.
        And there are oars.

        And the opportunity to connect one coast with another opens up new worlds. Especially if the coast is sea.
        1. +7
          3 March 2023 08: 25
          Here are just images of these "long ships" in miniatures in medieval manuscripts for some reason is not found.

          Out of spite or resentment? wassat )))

          Good morning everyone and have a nice day! love
          "Children ran into the hut ...")))
          1. +1
            3 March 2023 09: 44
            Quote: depressant
            "Children ran into the hut ..."

            In a hurry to call the father? smile
            1. +4
              3 March 2023 10: 01
              In a hurry to call the father?


              Our mother is History, our father is Vyacheslav Olegovich)))
              1. -5
                3 March 2023 10: 39
                Then your house is a prison? laughing
                +-++++-++++++++++++++++(
              2. 0
                3 March 2023 12: 19
                In response to such a revelation, it is not clear to congratulate or sympathize.
                1. +4
                  3 March 2023 12: 38
                  In response to such a revelation, it is not clear to congratulate or sympathize.

                  Just revisit the good old movie "Beware of the car" or winged quotes from it Yes smile
                  1. +2
                    3 March 2023 15: 40
                    Dima, you only save!
                    Like a straw that you forgot to lay.
                    And of course, your knowledge used to surprise you, but now it's simply amazing.
                    The year has not been in vain for you!
                    No flattery, just from the bottom of my heart.
                    People who know me personally will confirm that I am not a flatterer, and I don’t know how.
                    It seems like Misha and I have come to parity, but no, yes, again, as today, we will express our opinions.
                    I am sorry that Shpakovsky began to write for profit and, naturally, the level of articles fell sharply.
                  2. +1
                    3 March 2023 15: 41
                    If a person makes a kind of coming out and admits that he is Shpakovsky's bastard, then let's remove the pronoun "OUR". This recognition applies exclusively to the author, not to all the site participants, at least I hope
                    1. +2
                      3 March 2023 15: 50
                      Probably still an adept and not a bastard? ...
                      1. +2
                        3 March 2023 16: 27
                        Toha! You're wrong. She confessed that she was his child!
                      2. +3
                        3 March 2023 16: 36
                        This is some kind of multi-level English humor, inaccessible to my ignorant medieval mind.
                      3. +3
                        3 March 2023 16: 52
                        Okay, let's agree!!!
                        No offense, otherwise we will set the table in April!
                      4. +1
                        3 March 2023 16: 59
                        The father of Lyudmila Yakovlevna is Vyacheslav Shpakovsky, those middle names are different, therefore, an unrecognized child. How does is called?
                      5. +3
                        3 March 2023 17: 11
                        "Walked around the yards. I looked, the children were playing in the sandbox. I came up, handed out sweets. Maybe mine ..."
                      6. +1
                        4 March 2023 00: 49
                        Sleep with your wife in the morning, you will know that at least today you are her first.
                        Met a child - give him a candy, suddenly it's yours.
                        Met an old man - say hello, suddenly it's your father.
                        In the evening he came - give it to your wife in the eye, you can be sure she knows why. "(c)
                      7. +2
                        4 March 2023 00: 57
                        The militarization of society is gaining momentum. This is me for yesterday.
                      8. +1
                        4 March 2023 04: 58
                        This is me for yesterday.


                        Why exactly?
                        By the way, the people have always had enough weapons, though registered ones, now, I think, there will be plenty of any other.
            2. +3
              3 March 2023 23: 56
              "Children ran into the hut ..."

              In a hurry to call the father?


    2. +9
      3 March 2023 08: 34
      "When she gets bored with crafty novels
      And get tired of lying in wicker hammocks,
      She comes to the port to watch the caravels
      Sailing from troubled countries on unsteady sails"
      and further in the text, E. Bagritsky "Creole"
    3. +3
      3 March 2023 12: 18
      Korsar4: Sailing ships have been fascinating since childhood. I want to see them in all their manifestations.

      Sergei hi
      considering your passion and your profession, a small selection especially for you






      1. +4
        3 March 2023 18: 39
        Thank you very much, Dima!

        Children can see a ship in a nutshell. And that is great.
      2. +2
        3 March 2023 23: 20
        Hello Dima!
        I immediately remembered something almost forgotten from a young age: "A submarine in the steppes of Ukraine" laughing
  2. +9
    3 March 2023 04: 31
    Very strange messages in the article.
    "The former art of building magnificent sailing and rowing triremes and penthers has also been forgotten" (c)
    But what about the Byzantine Empire?
    The Byzantine Empire is the continuation of the Eastern Roman Empire.
    And it turns out that the Byzantines did not know how to build ships?
    And further.
    "who now opposed the same Byzantium, which remained an outpost of civilization among the boundless sea of ​​barbarian tribes that flooded Europe? The Slavs on their boats" (c)
    It turns out that they still built ships. Or were they new ones?
    "the famous "Greek fire" was enough to fight them" (c)
    So far, neither the composition of the fire nor the "siphons" for throwing it have been able to repeat the reenactors.
    I don't question its existence.
    And one more passage
    "in the north of Europe, and above all in Scandinavia, there were no land roads at all" (c)
    Maybe the author and sources will lead!
    1. +10
      3 March 2023 04: 56
      Byzantium is mentioned in the first lines.

      My daughter gave Akunin's book "The Fiery Finger".

      I am quite critical of the Fandorin cycle.

      But the episode from the story, how the Byzantine ship with the rooks is straightened out, was remembered.
    2. +8
      3 March 2023 05: 20
      Quote: ee2100
      "in the north of Europe, and above all in Scandinavia, there were no land roads at all" (c)

      Scattered Germanic and Finno-Ugric tribes lived in Scandinavia, which were at the stage of decomposition of the tribal system. There was no serious economic activity between them. Why do they need roads? However, the paths must have been some...
      1. +13
        3 March 2023 09: 49
        Disagree here. And economic activities were carried out within the country, and there were roads. And where it was not possible to lay a road, they laid gati. The most famous walkway discovered is considered to be a flooring through the swamps in Täby in Sweden. Its length is about 150 meters, and its width is 6,5 meters. Why bother with it if it wasn't?
        No significant economic activity between them
        They had everything there, not only lived on the coast.
        1. +4
          3 March 2023 15: 32
          Quote: not the one
          They had everything there

          There was subsistence farming. That says it all. A daughter’s ribbon from a fair in Provins in exchange for a bag of wool is not a serious economic activity .. And so - yes, even armor was taken to order for knights to castles ...
    3. +3
      3 March 2023 05: 43
      Hi Sasha!
      Regarding roads. Most of the roads in medieval Europe were the legacy of the Roman Empire, only in England alone there are about 10 thousand kilometers. Accordingly, all of them are within the boundaries of the Roman limes.
      1. +3
        3 March 2023 06: 31
        Hello Anton!
        I don't even remember the Roman roads.
        Roads or paths, directions have always been there. A simple question, how did a huge number of troops move?
        I have long had a proposal for historians to study old roads, bridges, place names, etc.
        We can safely say that there was a road along any large body of water.
        1. +5
          3 March 2023 07: 50
          We had to agree on definitions. What I meant by the term "road" is an artificial construction of transport infrastructure. And you are probably traditional migration routes.
        2. +7
          3 March 2023 08: 21
          I have long had a proposal for historians to study old roads, bridges, place names, etc.

          Sasha, salut-alaikum hi
          very interesting article "Ancient roads of Europe gone underground"
          They look like trenches left after the war, or tunnels stretching through the forests. These ancient roads, called Holloways, stretched across Europe. Initially, they appeared out of the blue, but over the centuries, under the tread of millions of feet and hooves of merchants and travelers, the roadbed was erased and went deeper into the ground, creating ditches that are today located below the level of the surrounding landscape. Many of these ancient highways then became temporary waterways during the rains, which further deepened and widened the roads, making them permanent features of the landscape...


          link https://masterok.livejournal.com/5799098.html
      2. +12
        3 March 2023 07: 23
        in the north of Europe, and above all in Scandinavia, there were no land roads at all "(c)

        Of course, I am wildly sorry, but is it already forbidden to mention the ancient "hyarka" - the Oxen Path (or the Bull Road)?
        By the way, a national cultural heritage site!
        I don’t know about other ancient roads, but I saw this one personally, even the pictures remained.
        a photo "Hyarka" monument


        The history of the road dates back to the time of the Vikings, when they settled the coastal areas of Lake Mälarena. The Vikings founded the city of Birki in those places and established close trade relations with the Finns, who lived at that time on the shores of the Gulf of Bothnia. The Vikings bought the meat and fur of wild animals from the local population, which they obtained by hunting, and in return the ancient Suomi people received salt, metal products and weapons from them. In the place where the most lively trade and exchange of goods took place in the XNUMXth century, the Abo fortress, modern Turku, was founded. Hunters from the forests of Häme, where the Hämeenlinna fortress will soon appear, supplied valuable furs of ermines and sables to this fortress.

        There are several versions of the appearance of the name Ox Road. The first is based on the fact that traders traveled part of the way on bullock carts, although, as a rule, horses were the main means of transportation in those days. The second version is more linguistic, and is based on the fact that the road got its name from the word "hyarka" (in Finnish it is an ox), which was modified from the Swedish word "herveg", which denoted a military route. The road really had military significance, as it connected two fortresses and military skirmishes constantly took place on it. Over time, places of religious worship began to appear on the sides of the road, which attracted many pilgrims. It was possible to drive along it only on wagons pulled by oxen. Then Jarl Birger will pass along this road with his knights, and the road will finally connect the two main halves of the original Swedish Finland.
        1. +3
          3 March 2023 08: 14
          Hello Dmitry!
          I answered Alexander above: we need to agree on terminology.
          1. +8
            3 March 2023 09: 20
            terminology needs to be agreed upon.
            What I meant by the term "road" is an artificial construction of transport infrastructure. And you are probably traditional migration routes.

            Anton hi
            "The Saga of Hallfred the Difficult Skald" (c. 967 - c. 1007) in one of the songs mentions the road from Trondheim to Jomtaland, 10 steps wide, partly "dirty" (?), partly white grass clearing (?), partly - paid (the traveler had to pay for each wheel of his cart), which passed through the lands of Bjorn's bond, but safe from robbers and equipped with inns, bulk fords across streams and wooden bridges (?) through swamps (maybe - gats?).
            In short, it is clear that this road was in places - an artificial structure, in places - a traditional unequipped route, in places a clearing, in places a "toll highway".
            What is the term for such a "route to bring?
            1. +14
              3 March 2023 09: 43
              "The Saga of Hallfred the Hard Skald"
              This is where Bjorn and his daring wife met at the quarters? Read, read. What can I say - and there were some roads - no (rather the second), and a network of roadside hostels and hotels was developed.
            2. +10
              3 March 2023 10: 44
              What is the term for such a "route to bring?
              Mixed type, but it is obvious that the engineering component was superimposed on the natural one. Otherwise, roads can also be recognized as routes for driving cows to the USA.
              1. +13
                3 March 2023 10: 50
                Inspired: "We have no roads, there are only directions." There are two troubles in Russia, and one of them is constantly repairing the other.
                1. +1
                  4 March 2023 06: 05
                  There are two troubles in Russia, and one of them is constantly repairing the other.
              2. +6
                3 March 2023 19: 19
                And what is the difference between the human path in the forest and the path of ungulates?

                For example, they create forest plantations of pine. Capercaillie goes along the furrow and gently bites off the tops. For him, it's just a path.
                1. +2
                  4 March 2023 05: 48
                  The capercaillie walks along the furrow and gently bites the tops of the pines....

                  goes and says: If I don’t take it, I’ll take a bite (c) smile
        2. +5
          3 March 2023 08: 54
          Dmitry, hello!
          What Anton writes, that it is necessary to agree on terminology, may be true, but it's still an excuse.
          All known battles, if they took place near fortresses, all on certain paths, roads.
          The Tatars, if I'm not mistaken, had only three ways to Rus'.
          In the Livonian chronicles, these are specifically roads.
          Yes, and according to our annals, although not specifically, but reading them you understand that these are roads, bridges, fords, crossings.
          1. +2
            3 March 2023 22: 50
            The Tatars, if I'm not mistaken, had only three ways to Rus'.

            In Rus', not only the Tatars had three ways - this is the eternal dilemma of all Russians
            V. Rumyantsev and the SV group - an old Cossack song "Three tracks. Three ways"
    4. Fat
      +8
      3 March 2023 05: 45
      hi Greetings to Alexander.
      Quote: ee2100
      And one more passage
      "in the north of Europe, and above all in Scandinavia, there were no land roads at all" (c)
      Maybe the author and sources will lead!

      Judging by the frequency of mention of significant medieval purely land trade routes in the region, sources directly indicating their existence are much easier to find. Didn't find one. Maybe you have an example?
      1. +5
        3 March 2023 06: 35
        Good morning.
        This question is not studied by anyone. Cities or other settlements were not only along the banks of water bodies
        but also in the depths of the territory, which means there were roads.
        To determine the place of the Battle of Rakovor, I had to trace the old road from the Narva River to Rakvere and everything grew together.
        Many do not agree, but they cannot reasonably suggest another way.
        1. +7
          3 March 2023 09: 41
          Quote: ee2100
          This question is not studied by anyone.

          Yes, I did not find special studies on intracontinental routes of communication in Russian. In territories outside the Roman Empire, I mean. Roman roads have been studied, there is information on them.
          Perhaps it would make sense to summarize the information available in disparate sources. I'll try it offhand. smile
          The early Middle Ages - the time when settlements were located mainly on the banks of water bodies, respectively, the main means of communication were waterways. But all the time you don’t look like boats alone, therefore, between the nearest villages, the forces of the villagers themselves made their way through roads, which, it turns out, went along the banks of reservoirs. By the forces of the villagers themselves, these roads were maintained in working condition, since they were stupidly needed. Moving along such roads from village to village, one could go very far, in principle - anywhere.
          Roads also departed from the villages in different directions to various mowing lands, plots for timber, for firewood, for fishing pits, for mills, etc. These roads could be dead ends, that is, lead to a bearish corner. All such roads existed exactly as long as they were regularly used.
          With the formation of states, the authorities, for whom the routes of communication with the outskirts meant, in fact, the ability to manage these outskirts and collect the appropriate taxes, had to attend to, if not the creation of new routes - this time will not come soon, then maintaining the existing ones in working order - for sure. To do this, the inhabitants of some villages were exempted from certain duties, in return they were charged with maintaining communication routes - repairing bridges and gati, moorings, cleaning riverbeds from blockages, etc.
          Separately, it must be said about the drags.
          Drag in those days is not at all what is meant by this word now. Drag in the Early, and even in the High Middle Ages, is the center of civilization, a permanent fair with inns, taverns, porters' artels, a cart park, draft horse trains, etc. It's money, and a lot of it. It was on the portages that the washing yards were most often located, and graveyards often arose there.
          Note that the peasants were extremely interested in the transit trade route passing through their village, so they tried to arrange everything with the greatest comfort for the guests - competition. smile
          With the "takeoff to the hills" people began to go to the upper reaches of small rivers and streams, along which water communication was either completely impossible, or limited - only to high water. Therefore, the land road network began to develop rapidly, turning into a network, again on the principle of "from village to village." There were roads connecting the upper reaches of small rivers, which ran along the watersheds, parallel to the "old" roads along the riverbed, thus forming "directions", that is, there were various options for the path in one direction, it was possible to choose which of the parallel roads is more convenient to move to the designated item.
          All this happened spontaneously and was not regulated or directed by the authorities in any way.
          Military operations took place precisely along such routes. The essence and purpose of medieval warfare is the robbery of the population. The army moved along the road from village to village, and with the appearance of a road network, several detachments along parallel roads, constantly conducting reconnaissance and maintaining communication in readiness to unite for a decisive battle if the enemy decides to do so.
          A lot of things during the formation, I emphasize, not construction, but the formation of the road network, of course, depended on the landscape. Depending on it, "bottlenecks" appeared in the road network, where several roads converged, and which could not be bypassed, or for a very long time. For example, dense forests, defile between lakes or swamps, a wide deep river with a swampy channel and a small number of places for crossing - all this had to be taken into account when drawing up a plan for a military campaign.
          1. +4
            3 March 2023 10: 30
            Hi Michael!
            You develop your theory "from village to village", yes, that's right, but you can look at it differently - villages near the road.
            "Care for the hills" is just an escape from the river (sea) robbers. That is, strangers. They knew their own and were not very afraid. Aliens sailed and if the desire to rob someone, then you need to leave the court and plus the protection of the ships, otherwise there will be nothing to return home and move away from the water, and there is still a settlement with a wall. Not much pleasure.
            I read one, though an art book, "Once in the XIII century" - the roads are specifically described there. drinks
            And the last.
            To our everything - Alexander Yaroslavovich.
            His last recorded military performance.
            The invasion of Lithuanians into the territory of the Novgorod principality.
            Where exactly they invaded is not known, but it is at least 500 km from Novgorod. The messenger rides for 5-6 days and Alexander gathers a squad for 2-3 days and the same 500 km back and catches up with them not far from the border and smashes.
            The conclusion is simple - without normal roads this is not possible.
            Many examples can be given.
            1. +7
              3 March 2023 12: 43
              Yes, hi Sasha.
              Quote: ee2100
              you can see it differently - villages near the road.

              And then you need to put forward a clear and internally consistent hypothesis about who, where and why it took to build a road in an absolutely deserted place - through forests, swamps and other obstacles. To be honest, I could not come up with such a hypothesis. smile
              "Rise to the hills" is not a reaction to external aggression, but a consequence of a change in the way of managing and population growth - more land became needed due to the massive transition to the three-field land, there was no longer enough land in the floodplains, and people arrived.
              As for the Lithuanian campaign of Alexander Nevsky in 1245, as I understand it, you mean it, there are many questions that are not answered in the sources, and without them it is impossible to draw a conclusion about the speed of movement of the troops.
              The usual routes of Lithuanian invasions ran through Usvyat (the border of Novgorod and Polotsk lands), and further north, through Luki along the Lovat, or somewhat east along the Kunya River up to Rusa (in 1234, the Lithuanians reached there) or to Toropets and further to east within the limits of Suzdal land.
              In 1245, the Lithuanians went to Toropets, and further through Torzhok right up to Bezhetsk. There they turned around and began to retreat back to Toropets, where they sat down. Alexander from Novgorod arrived just in time for Toropets, freed him and drove the Lithuanians towards Usvyat, crushing the stragglers along the way and finally defeating them near Usvyat himself.
              By mileage:
              from Usvyat to Toropets 100 km.
              from Toropets to Bezhetsk - 350 km.
              from Toropets to Novgorod - 120 km.
              All distances are in a straight line, on the ground you need to add about 30-50%
              But the most important thing is that we do not know how long the parties spent on all these maneuvers. In the sources there is neither the date of the start of the raid, nor any other dates. It is only known that all this happened in the calendar year 6754. Everything about everything could take several months, as most likely it was. With what speed the troops moved we do not know.
              And it is completely incomprehensible in this regard what prevented the troops, both Lithuanian and Russian, from moving along the roads that I described in the previous comment - from village to village.
              1. +2
                3 March 2023 14: 19
                Everything is already clear - there were roads and they were kept incl. crossing bridges, etc. Plus the appropriate infrastructure, well, security, of course.
                1. +2
                  3 March 2023 15: 27
                  There were roads, how could it be without them? They were kept by those who constantly traveled on them. Exclusively on a voluntary basis: to dig a bump, dismantle a blockage, arrange a detour around a large puddle, etc. Bridges are more difficult. In Novgorod, the Great Bridge was maintained and repaired at the expense of the city treasury; in rural areas, bridges, probably by the same logic, were maintained at the expense of the rural community, which, in fact, used this bridge.
                  About the infrastructure, that is, about the pits, the first information we have appears only in the XIII century. and then, in connection with the Mongols, who established a communication system on subject lands. It is possible that before that there was some kind of inn on the roads, but there is no information about this, no one mentions them anywhere, so this is unlikely.
                  What kind of protection can be discussed, I do not understand. In the Novgorod land there were small towns, such as Kaibolovsky, Tesovsky, Luga, Tiversky, apparently with small garrisons. But it is possible that there were no garrisons, although in some of these towns they find, including what can be interpreted as weapons. But I repeat, there is no certainty.
                  So far, at the level of knowledge that historical science has, it can only be stated with certainty that there were roads, that there were many of them, that large masses of troops for that time could move along them, and in the description of some companies it is clearly seen that they moved in different ways. In the case of the Rakovor company, it is specifically said that the Russians were moving, divided "into three paths." Judging by this company, by the way, the Russians went from Novgorod to Rakvere from January 23 to February 18, this is about 400 km, that is, an average of 15 km per day.
        2. +15
          3 March 2023 09: 57
          Quite rightly so. And there were bridges on these roads. The largest Viking bridge is considered to be the bridge over the Vejle River in Jutland. Its length was about 800 meters, width 5,5 meters, and the total area of ​​the roadway was about 35 thousand square meters!
          Here is the Ravning Bridge


          How much oak was gone! And they didn’t find any traces of repair, people built it for centuries. Immediately and forever, and not like we have asphalt and tiles every year.
    5. +12
      3 March 2023 06: 20
      Good morning, Alexander!
      Very strange messages in the article.
      "The former art of building magnificent sailing and rowing triremes and penthers has also been forgotten" (c)

      In the Mediterranean, shipbuilders have lost a number of skills and competencies. In particular, until the 12th century, the jib for taking out the attachment point of the oar disappeared. Simplified rigging. Ships appeared with sides assembled in an overlap, and not a joint. Degradation was observed not only in southern Europe, but also in Byzantium. Especially after the burning of Constantinople at the beginning of the 13th century.
      And yes, the Norman, North European, Vishchantian, Arab and Slavic shipbuilding traditions are different. In a row of slouches from the word - srvsem!
    6. +10
      3 March 2023 08: 35
      The article is not bad, but for children. Therefore, there are so many strange conclusions and conclusions - at the level of a fifth grade course student.
      1. +15
        3 March 2023 10: 05
        I agree. Especially about the Vikings sitting on the chests smiled. There were always benches, the Norwegian "Gulating Law" prescribed that long ships should have from 20 to 25 shops. But if, when gathering on a campaign, the law says, a ship cannot be supplied with a sufficient number of people, then it was necessary to chop off the ship's rudder and reduce the length of the ship , in accordance with the number of crew ready for him. However, no ship could have less than 13 shops. Sagas mention ships of 30 and even 60 rooms. The Long Serpent, the largest ship built in the North, had 34 rums.
        1. +9
          3 March 2023 10: 39
          Well, sea chests were of such a shape that they fit exactly under the jar. So theoretically - sitting on the bank, the Viking was sitting on the chest.
          1. +13
            3 March 2023 10: 55
            Yes, then you can say anything about anything, don’t find it)) The Viking could sit on the barrel, and just on the deck. The author’s articles are good, of course .. But not today. ))
            1. +8
              3 March 2023 11: 44
              Quote: not the one
              Yes, then you can say anything about anything, don’t find

              I had a series of articles here about Viking ships. Based on excavation data... There was also about chests. It's not a fantasy...
        2. +3
          3 March 2023 20: 41
          I agree. Especially about the Vikings sitting on the chests smiled. There were always benches, the Norwegian "Gulating Law" prescribed that long ships should have from 20 to 25 benches

          These are the times of Magnus Erlinsson (approximately the third quarter of the 12th century). What drakkars were in the era of Khakan the Good or Olaf the Holy, we do not know. In Scandinavian oral tradition, the chest has always been the seat of the rower.
          So the Long (Great) Serpent for 34 (rum) banks is the peak of the evolution of Drakkars. We can guess what his brothers were like in the XNUMXth century.
          1. -1
            4 March 2023 08: 33
            What drakkars were in the era of Khakan the Good or Olaf the Holy, we do not know.

            Gokstad ship - 6th century, ship Roskilde XNUMX - early XNUMXth century.
        3. +1
          4 March 2023 06: 12
          We do not know what chests were on drakkars in the era of Khakan the Good or Olaf the Holy. In the Scandinavian oral tradition, the chest has always been the place of the rower.. We can only guess what his brothers were like in the XNUMXth century..

          For some reason, I suddenly got sick of being a rower on a drakkar in the era of Khakan the Good feel laughing
    7. +7
      3 March 2023 08: 49
      in the north of Europe, and above all in Scandinavia, there were no land roads at all "(c)

      ee2100 (Alexander): Maybe the author will give sources!

      "The Saga of Hallfred the Hard Skald" (c. 967 - c. 1007) will do?

      True, this saga goes into complete contradiction with the author's statement.
      She, in particular, mentions that special estates were built near the roads for the overnight stay of travelers, original hotels. Such a haven was located, for example, on the road from Trondheim to Jomtaland (Jemtland). These "hotels in dense forests, along which trade roads ran, were quite large, perhaps because the merchants traveled in numerous "companies" for safety.
      One of the songs says that one evening 12 merchants arrived at a guest yard by the road along the Yomtaland forest and found accommodation for themselves and horses and a room for goods there, although other travelers also stopped there that night. After spending the night, it was considered obligatory to leave chopped firewood in the house when leaving, so that future travelers could immediately make a fire, warm themselves and cook food.
      1. Fat
        +7
        3 March 2023 09: 11
        hi Greetings Dmitry. Then it might be worth remembering
        Quote: Richard
        After spending the night, it was considered obligatory to leave chopped firewood in the house when leaving, so that future travelers could immediately make a fire, warm themselves and cook food.

        Then it is probably worth recalling the "shopping centers" lost in the 11th century.
        Hedeby, Kaup...
        1. +4
          3 March 2023 10: 49
          Then it’s probably worth recalling the “shopping centers” lost in the 11th century - Hedeby, Kaup ....

          Hedeby, is this about which the saga writes - "in the crescent of the Schlei fjord"?
          And I, honestly, when I read it, I did not understand what it was.
          And now, thanks to you, I looked into the wiki. Thank you Andrew - I didn't know good
          Hedeby (Danish Hedeby, Old Norse Heiðabýr - from heiðr = wasteland, and býr = settlement, courtyard) is the most important trading center of the Danish Vikings, located deep in the Schlei fjord, at the intersection of trade routes from the Baltic basin to the North Sea basin ( here the ships were dragged by drag around the Sound) and from the Carolingian Empire to Denmark - the so-called Oxenway (Oksenweg) or Hervaien [en] (Hærvejen - “road of warriors”)
          The archaeological complex of Hedeby includes a semicircular rampart of the settlement, connected to the Danevirke (Danish Wall) fortification system, the settlement, the southern settlement, a number of burial grounds, a chamber burial in a drakkar and four runic stones.
          a photo.Archaeological Border complex of Hedeby and the Danevirke
          Reconstructed houses in the area of ​​the old settlement

          For the first time, Hedeby is mentioned in the Annals of the Kingdom of the Franks in connection with the military activities of the Danish king Gudfred against the empire of Charlemagne. In 804, he gathers an army and a fleet in Sliestorp (as Latin-language sources call Hedeby).
    8. +6
      3 March 2023 16: 54
      It seems to me that the author, having told a lot of interesting facts, did it somewhat haphazardly, at least from my point of view.
      The history of the development of shipbuilding is influenced by a lot of basic factors, such as politics, economics, military affairs, technology development, etc. All these moments have an impact on the design of the ship at a particular time and in a particular place. What is good in the Mediterranean today does not fit in the North Atlantic. In the time period from the early Middle Ages to the late, there are a number of general trends
      1. Departure from coastal navigation to long-distance navigation, the development of navigation
      2. Development of the technological capabilities of shipbuilding as an industry.
      3. An increase in the volume of cargo transportation due to the growth of markets.
      4. Differentiation in shipbuilding.
      Therefore, each new step in the design of ships was caused by something, as a rule, by a number of reasons.
      Western European shipbuilding in the Middle Ages began with simple ships of the coastal zone. Sailing in unprepared ports, the ability to land anywhere, the crew of rowers, a straight sail for sailing with the wind. Can be beached by crew, shallow draft, low carrying capacity. The design of the set is simple, the body rigidity is not high. Roughly speaking, this is where they started. Naturally, the Latin sail, which made it possible to go against the wind (it is more convenient to say "ships" are military and "ships" are merchant and other non-military ones, they all "go" in navigation and on the sea) required a change in the hull, not immediately, but gradually the hull becomes narrower and the draft increases, the contours change, the bowsprit appears and the ends become more vertical to hold the bowsprit and the rudder blade. The windage increases and the masts grow to compensate for the overturning moment, the ballast at the bottom increases. A more powerful and larger area needs a keel and a rudder in order to stay steeper towards the wind. The loads on the hull are growing rapidly, the set is becoming more complex, new elements of the set, bulkheads and decks appear, increasing rigidity. Going to the open sea requires strengthening the hull again, building up the sides, creating a waterproof deck that completely covers the internal volume. And again in a circle - more sails, a stronger set, the search for new contours to increase seaworthiness.
      Navigation - new knowledge collected in sailing directions, a compass, clocks, astronomy, a "magic" crystal of Scandinavian sailors, a strong hull and a professional crew made it possible to break away from coastal landmarks.
      The development of technology for processing wood, iron, the weaving industry made it possible to build faster, load-lifting, seaworthy hulls. At the same time, these cases were more and more different. New materials in sail equipment and rigging. Shipyards are growing, the professional composition of shipyard workers is increasing, science comes with its own calculations to shipbuilding.
      Warships, as now the pinnacle of shipbuilding. Roads, strong, have the features of the hull, determined by combat use. Big team. At the same time, it should be noted that in a number of cases, retrofitted merchant ships became warships.
      At the same time, merchant ships were built as cheap as possible, very different in terms of characteristics, tonnage and sailing armament. The shipping markets were different. The rigging has been optimized to minimize the crew. Until the 17th century, more than 50% of the rental of transportation was payment to the crew, and not the actual rental of the vessel. The British won the competitive war for shipping, including the fact that their team cost almost half the price of the French and one and a half times cheaper than the Dutch.
      And now every nail driven into the hull of a new ship is the fruit of successes and misses, calculation and intuition.
      1. +7
        3 March 2023 17: 14
        The article was not written by an expert. The author is very good as an educator and popularizer, but being an expert in everything is unrealistic, so you can understand and forgive.
        As for shipbuilding (and not only it), any product of human hands is the result of a rather long evolution, and not momentary desires, as many imagine - "the Vikings suddenly appeared and decided to build longships." And evolution depends on very many factors - technology, materials, capital investments and labor costs, etc. Why suddenly the northern shipbuilding had a clinker sheathing, and the Mediterranean one had a smooth sheathing. Why are the sails on drakkars straight, and in the Mediterranean there were also straight, but more often oblique. This is a direct consequence of special conditions and special technologies.
    9. +5
      3 March 2023 17: 30
      The sides of this ship were bent inward, which made it difficult

      I met the opinion that the sides bent inward were intended to combat extortions, since the then corrupt port officials demanded money based on the length and width of the deck, since they lacked education to calculate the displacement.
      1. +4
        3 March 2023 18: 16
        It is difficult to say why they did this without a specific indication of when it was done, a drawing, a comparison with other ships of a similar purpose. We need a historical context. Otherwise it is a case in itself. Like an old silver coin. Without understanding where they found it, in what environment, layer together with what, there is no sense in it.
        So here. The blockage of the sides inward should increase the rigidity of the hull and affect the characteristics of roll stability, maybe the water rolled off the deck faster in a storm, or other aspects affected.
    10. 0
      4 March 2023 11: 34
      About all these triremes and penteras, the opinion of which is compiled by historians, somehow I would not like to mention. It is enough that they decided to build a copy of this miracle. And they built it. It is very doubtful that such a ship was running. Since, like a ship, the trireme is just junk. It can only be used as a show-off for some local king. No more.
      In one place they write about its wonderful maneuverability, and on the copy it is perfectly clear that this crap has zero maneuverability. Etc.
  3. +10
    3 March 2023 04: 43
    A little on the article.
    Vyacheslav - “One of the earliest images of a medieval European vessel full of warriors with almond-shaped shields, dating back to 1000-1100 years. Saint Aubin, France. National Library of France, Paris.

    This is the so-called "Norman warship", the French response to the Viking raids. Below is a reconstruction.
    1. +11
      3 March 2023 09: 08
      This is not the answer of the French - this is the evolution of drakkars - a transitional type from drakkar to koggu.
      1. 0
        4 March 2023 05: 37
        Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
        This is not the answer of the French - this is the evolution of drakkars - a transitional type from drakkar to koggu.

        Yes, I have come across similar suggestions, but:
        1. Kogg is the evolution of the Frisian ships, which has been traced since the 7th-8th century.
        2. Battle Norman ship - a side evolution of the cogg, after the French got acquainted not with dakkars, but knorrs and Viking snacks.
        In fact, an attempt to make a warship out of a merchant ship.
        3. In the 12th century, holc appeared for similar reasons.
        If it's rude, about somewhere like that.
        1. 0
          4 March 2023 18: 29
          If you look at the chronology, then the evolution of the drakkar is clearly traced - Nimme, Kvalsund, Oseberg, Goksted. Drakkars and knorrs made using the same technology have already been found in Skuldelev. Then the line of drakkars ends, and the line of knorrs develops - deck ships, castles, castles are fused with stems - and here comes the line of coggs. It is clear that there was a strong influence of all the Baltic shipyards on each other, there were no standards then, and everyone made ships looking at each other, but with their own characteristics and branches. But the evolution - drakkar - knorr - cogg is clearly visible.
    2. +1
      3 March 2023 15: 49
      This is the so-called "Norman warship", the French response to the Viking raids. Below is a reconstruction.

      Yes, only the illustration from La Vie de Saint Aubin d'Angers shows the landing of the Vikings in Brittany in 919.
      In fact, the author wrote
      we know that the northerners built at that time ships of two types: combat ships - drakkars, called "long ships", and merchant ships - knorrs, smaller and shorter

      The topic was not disclosed due to insufficient competence in this topic. This is not a reproach, the topic is complex and requires serious work with a wide range of sources, moreover, there are practically no Russian-speaking ones among them. In short, there were many more types of ships.
      Longship (long ship) is a general term that combines several types of warships used by the Vikings - karvi, snekke, skeid, drakkar.
      In the illustration in the article - snekke or snekkja Vikings.
      1. 0
        4 March 2023 05: 42
        Thanks for the snekk photo.

        I draw the attention of comrades that, contrary to the opinion of many, there are no cans (benches) of rowers in the reconstruction. Only one for kromchey.
        1. 0
          4 March 2023 09: 30
          This is a Drakkar from Oseberg. It was found along the deck, everything above the deck rotted and was reconstructed with varying degrees of certainty. And so it is with almost all Drakkar-like ships.
  4. +10
    3 March 2023 05: 04
    Vyacheslav - “The former art of building magnificent sailing and rowing triremes and penthers was also forgotten. Yes, they were, in general, now they are not needed. After all, who now opposed all the same Byzantium, which remained an outpost of civilization among the boundless sea of ​​barbarian tribes that flooded Europe? The Slavs on their one-tree boats were dangerous only in their numbers. But the famous "Greek fire" was enough to fight them - a combustible mixture that continued to burn even on water. The Arabs, who annoyed the Byzantines a lot, also could not resist the "Greek fire", even if they already had ships with sails.
    Curious but true. Europeans in the Mediterranean until the 12th century essentially exploited biremes (direms) - two-row galleys, which first evolved into galleys with three rowers per one oar port, each with its own oar. In the 15th century, this system changed to one port, one oar, 3-4 rowers per oar.
    By the way, the role of the Arabs is difficult to overestimate, it was they who gave the sailors a slanting sail.
    Departure from the price of trier and penter is most of all associated with the economic component. With many pluses, they had one significant minus, or rather two:
    1. Large crews, and therefore low autonomy. In the ancient world, the bottom row of rowers was used only during combat.
    2. Low load efficiency, the appearance of oblique sails and "wunderflies" in the form of Greek fire made it possible to move away from the practice of ramming. Dormons began to "fatten" in breadth. In fact, these are dual-purpose ships.
    1. +10
      3 March 2023 08: 46
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      By the way, the role of the Arabs is difficult to overestimate, it was they who gave the sailors a slanting sail.

      Not a fact at all. The oblique "Latin" sail was actively used there.
  5. +5
    3 March 2023 05: 13
    Therefore, in Europe there are no more forests left - everyone was allowed on ships ...
    1. +14
      3 March 2023 05: 24
      Les remained.
      But try to look for ships.
      1. +4
        3 March 2023 05: 27
        Quote from Korsar4
        Remaining Forests

        If you consider a small grove half-rolled in asphalt to be a forest, then the forests remain ... The exception is Scandinavia
        1. +7
          3 March 2023 05: 37
          Let's be honest - the forests "went to the fleet" in the 17th and 18th centuries, and not in the era of the Middle Ages. However, it was enough for us to kill our forest in the Volga region of the quarter of the 19th century. And not on ships, but on firewood for ships.
          1. +9
            3 March 2023 05: 55
            Vladislav, it is necessary to look at the regions.

            Slash-and-burn agriculture greatly reduced forest cover.

            In the Moscow region, it was restored in the Time of Troubles, with a sharp decrease in population.
            1. +9
              3 March 2023 06: 46
              The first of the sovereigns who thought about the conservation of forests was Peter I. This list included oak groves of the Kazan kingdom, later the province. Kazan even had its own Admiralty for the needs of the Caspian Flotilla. The "Tatars" stole the truth "scary". So the main body of information about this organization is denunciations, cases of theft and "bad forest"! laughing
              After the abolition of the ban on cutting down ship timber in the 70s of the century before last, oaks were used for firewood for the ships of the Volga Partnerships. About coal and oil thought already after fifteen years.
              1. +7
                3 March 2023 07: 21
                And out of 4 forest experts who came from German lands, 3 went to the Kazan Admiralty. And one remained in St. Petersburg.

                True, the most famous is Ferdinand Gabriel Fokel - the creator of the Lindulovskoy grove.
        2. +8
          3 March 2023 05: 52
          It's good that they remembered Scandinavia.

          In Sweden and Finland, the forest cover is about 70%.

          In Latvia and Estonia - about 60%.

          In Germany and France, more than 30%.

          Some mountain forests are worth something.

          So even there is where to get lost.

          It is clear that the scale is not ours.
          But even in our region, the forest cover of the regions is heterogeneous.
          1. +2
            3 March 2023 06: 34
            and Finland
            To the north of Rovaniemi, it is such a wooded area, very conditional.
            1. +12
              3 March 2023 06: 37
              Lapladnia is a separate song.

              It's warmer in Finland compared to us. One of the reasons is that spruce forests are productive there.
              But the carpet of green mosses is quite wonderful.

              They even worry that there are no forest fires.
              Therefore, the site where it happened some years ago is protected as a value.
              1. +4
                3 March 2023 06: 43
                In any case, I think it makes sense to consider the density of plant mass per hectare. As they say in Murmansk: we have mushrooms higher than trees.
                1. +8
                  3 March 2023 06: 51
                  There is a common, easy-to-remember indicator - stock, m3/hectare.

                  And then they stand out. Separate tundra. Separate pre-tundra forests.
                  And then the northern taiga.

                  And the middle taiga forests are already quite productive.
                2. +7
                  3 March 2023 07: 08
                  Didn't finish before leaving.
                  And if the indicator of completeness is lower than 0,3, then this is called a radish.
              2. +4
                3 March 2023 16: 38
                Quote from Korsar4
                It's warmer in Finland compared to us. One of the reasons is that spruce forests are productive there.

                Yes, the average annual temperature of "terribly cold subpolar" Finland is 5.4 degrees, and Russia is -5,5 degrees with all sorts of Crimeas and Sochi
                1. +6
                  3 March 2023 18: 34
                  We are the coldest country in the world. In this, Parshev is right.

                  And the fact that in the West the habit of walking without hats in winter is also not an accident.
      2. +14
        3 March 2023 08: 43
        Already in the 11th century there was a shortage of good oak in Norway. Boards are found in oak drakkars, with which they were repaired from any tree of suitable size - such as alder, aspen, which is not at all good for the supporting skin.
        1. +12
          3 March 2023 11: 02
          Certainly. For oak, the limitation is heat. And it grows slowly.

          And patching holes, apparently, had to be done quickly.
    2. +12
      3 March 2023 05: 37
      Forests in Europe disappeared for a different reason, called the "energy crisis of the Middle Ages."
      1. +11
        3 March 2023 05: 56
        And this too. We have already raised the topic, but this does not make it less interesting.
      2. +15
        3 March 2023 10: 58
        I agree here. They burned more trees in stoves and fireplaces than they let them on ships ..
      3. +4
        3 March 2023 18: 31
        Anton, I will support. A number of researchers associate many incomprehensible shredding of settlements and cities with the loss of available energy sources. For about 40 years, a conditional settlement of 10 people chose timber stocks for economic activities within a daily delivery radius. The price of energy was becoming too high for competitive production, crafts were dying out, moving, and the city was shrinking. There was a proverb that firewood for a pot of stew costs more than the stew itself. That's it, the people fled for 000 years until firewood grows again.
        They saved the rivers, delivery by water, but not all cities were so successfully built.
        The metallurgy of the Middle Ages destroyed forests an order of magnitude faster than the population. Furnaces were kindled from the strength of 3-4 months a year, otherwise they did not have time to accumulate charcoal. They describe serious friction between metallurgists and the local population due to the destruction of wood reserves during iron smelting.
        1. +2
          3 March 2023 18: 43
          At one time, the Vikings colonized Greenland, but after some time, having suffered, they returned to their homeland - it was hard to carry everything from Iceland, even firewood.
        2. 0
          4 March 2023 00: 02
          Good night, Vladimir!
          I read from Simone Roux, in Paris at the end of the fourteenth century, some unimaginable price tag for firewood! Moreover, they were sold by the piece, replenished.
  6. +10
    3 March 2023 05: 44
    We got from Venice to Corfu and stopped for a few days to rest and hunt. Yes, this is a setback for a couple of millennia in navigation.
    Meanwhile, people who did not know metal crossed the Pacific Ocean
    1. +7
      3 March 2023 07: 10
      What interesting comments today!
      1. Fat
        +7
        3 March 2023 08: 50
        hi Hello Vyacheslav Olegovich. Judging by the fact that
        And one of its important points was ... transport links between countries and individual cities.

        The time for talks about geodesy and cartography is approaching
        1. +16
          3 March 2023 11: 14
          Oh, this is just my topic! I will smash the supporters of the fundamentally incorrect and false theory that the earth is on a whale to smithereens. All the same, sane scientific minds of our time with you quite rightly believe that the earth's disk is on three elephants and is covered with heavenly firmament. It will be a good topic, I look forward to it!
          1. Fat
            +8
            3 March 2023 13: 27
            hi Simplify! in fact, everything is much more complicated! smile
  7. +12
    3 March 2023 09: 35
    "Sea battle, allegedly taking place in ancient times" before Caesar ". In fact, the Mediterranean ships of the XIV century are depicted here. Miniature from the manuscript" Ancient history before Caesar ". 1325-1359 Naples"
    Or maybe Caesar is a medieval character?
    1. +15
      3 March 2023 11: 01
      Everything can be here! The most interesting section, so "Join, baron. Join." ©
      1. +8
        3 March 2023 11: 26
        Or maybe Caesar is a medieval character?

        The first thing that immediately comes to mind is Caesar Borgia. True, he was born only a hundred years after the publication of the manuscript "Ancient History before Caesar" smile
        So this candidate is not suitable. Maybe you yourself, Dmitry, have some options?
    2. +8
      3 March 2023 11: 29
      Quote: Dmitry_Kress
      Or maybe Caesar is a medieval character?

      And Andrei Bogolyubsky is Jesus Christ, and Prophetic Oleg is Cleopatra?
      Oh, don't... Really, don't.
      I mean - do not drag Fomenko here with his crazy "discoveries". This garbage is definitely not needed here.
      1. +10
        3 March 2023 13: 48
        And Andrei Bogolyubsky is Jesus Christ, and Prophetic Oleg is Cleopatra

        And Prophetic Oleg did not nail his shield to the gates of Constantinople, but smeared it on them. And we know the legend erroneously due to a mistranslation from a medieval British manuscript from Durham Cathedral. Yes So mustache and bulo! drinks
        1. +8
          3 March 2023 14: 28
          In the context of this study, British scientists decided to re-read "The Tale of Igor's Campaign". And you know, it just sparkled with new colors! If, as the British believe, the word "shield" should be considered as the English "shit", then the work takes on a completely new meaning.
          Judge for yourself (I give Zhukovsky's translation):
          Demonic children blocked the fields with a click,
          And the brave Russian shit scarlet.

          Where are you, Grand Duke Vsevolod!
          Or do not you think to fly from afar,
          protect his father's golden throne?

          Sew up...
          Yes ...
          Still, science is power.
          laughing
          1. +8
            3 March 2023 16: 00
            scarlet shit

            Scarlet shields sounds too ... However, in Africa, chocolate warriors still enjoy parasites. request
            I'm going to throw up now... laughing drinks
            Still, science is power.

            Amen, Monsignor Count! good
      2. 0
        6 March 2023 20: 05
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        And Andrei Bogolyubsky is Jesus Christ, and Prophetic Oleg is Cleopatra?

        Then Yanukovych is Mazepa?
        he did not nail his shield to the gates of Constantinople, but smeared it on them.

        Then the renaming of the city to Istanbul is also understandable - the residents saw the smeared gates, got upset, drank heavily and renamed the city drunk.
  8. mz
    +11
    3 March 2023 10: 03
    In some places, the author exaggerated the capabilities of the ships of those times.
    For example: The largest length of the cogs of the Hanseatic Trade Union was approximately 30 m, the length along the waterline was 20 m, the width was 7,5 m, the draft was 3 m, and the carrying capacity was up to 500 tons.
    Even if you take a shape close to a parallelepiped: 20x7.5x3 \u450d 460 cubic meters - approximately 120 tons of displacement. The carrying capacity is good if 150-XNUMX tons will be at such dimensions.
    1. +6
      3 March 2023 15: 38
      Quote: mz
      Even if you take a shape close to a parallelepiped: 20x7.5x3 \u450d 460 cubic meters - approximately 120 tons of displacement. The carrying capacity is good if 150-XNUMX tons will be at such dimensions.

      Not a claim on me. I didn’t invent it, but I took it somewhere, maybe Kurti. I don't write with my finger to my forehead. And checking all the numbers that serious authors have is just stupid.
  9. +1
    3 March 2023 10: 54
    The author's appeal to such an unhackneyed topic as the history of shipbuilding can only be welcomed, here the article is definitely a plus.
    But there is also a minus - for such articles, let's say so - theoretical preparation should be much more serious. This is not a reproach, just a technically complex topic.
    There are a few clarifications in this regard.
    But in the northern seas, by the XNUMXth century, drakkars had already ceased to swim. New ships appeared - pot-bellied, high-sided single-masted sailboats, which served primarily for the transport of goods. They were called "round ships" - coggs (from the ancient German luigg - round)

    By the XNUMXth century, the kogi really replaced the drakkars in the northern seas, but they appeared back in the XNUMXth century on the Lower Rhine, in any case, it was there that the most "ancient" specimens were found to date. Naturally, over the three centuries it has undergone significant evolution, but the article describes only the "final" stage, unfortunately.
    As for the origin of the name, the author's version also raises serious doubts. The Germans themselves claim that "round" in the old High German is runt, from which the modern rund originated. And the authors of numerous publications about these ships agree that
    from Proto-Germanic "kuggō"

    kuggō - prong.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +10
        3 March 2023 16: 54
        Quote: Ruyter-57
        Minus individuals are touching. A vivid illustration of today's site's ignorant contingent, which evaluates comments either on the basis of personal dislike or corporate solidarity, having nothing to say in essence.

        Another excrement of the supermind. And where are the rules for setting pluses and minuses written here? It's not like a seminar of doctors of sciences and academicians with personal and personal responsibility for every comment. People here are indeed different, each with their own knowledge and skills - often very specific and unique. This is what makes the articles and comments (as well as the pros and cons system) interesting enough. Again, I have never seen comments (except yours) with insults for laying out some data. What is it for?
        1. +8
          3 March 2023 17: 54
          Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
          . What is it for?

          Take the trouble to get * + * from me, dear Ivan Ivanovich! For a clearly defined position. In addition, I myself am a zealous opponent of anonymous * minus *.
          Sincerely. hi
          1. +7
            3 March 2023 20: 36
            I watch with interest how these pluses / minuses are put, trying to understand the logic. You can downvote a non-thematic post without explanation, that's fine. But on the topic, if a minus, then you can add something smart. No? Or also a personal dislike?
            1. +2
              3 March 2023 21: 46
              Quote: balabol
              But on the topic, if a minus, then you can add something smart. No? Or also a personal dislike?

              Yes. But it probably all depends on the specific person. The post below confirms this. laughing Housewarming, cottage, icons.... No.
              1. +2
                4 March 2023 00: 59
                Housewarming, cottage, icons....


                In the garden, therefore, elderberry, and in Kyiv uncle. laughing
            2. +3
              4 March 2023 01: 05
              I watch with interest how these pluses / minuses are put, trying to understand the logic.


              It's pointless, it's easier to ignore. wink

  10. +3
    3 March 2023 12: 56
    Good day everyone. Sorry for being off topic.
    I was enraged by yesterday's Nazi raid. First, it is, to put it mildly, rudeness.
    Secondly, personal motive: if there is no aggravation at the front until 8 pm, I will have a housewarming: a two-level cottage of 60 sq. m.!
    It was agreed with her husband: sin will celebrate a housewarming party.
    How I would like to see all of you among my guests!
    That would be fun, but the condition: I don’t want political disagreements!
    I have a complete political kaleidoscope: my stepfather is a communist, but he votes for Putin, the old people ordered. The mother-in-law "prays" for Navalny, constantly composing her brains, her husband was out of politics and now in the Liberal Democratic Party. On his desk is a portrait of Zhirinovsky. I am agitated, and I sympathize with the Just Russians, but on the table there will be: Kazan IBM, perhaps Catherine 2?
  11. +3
    3 March 2023 13: 02
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you surprised me: all the same, "kogi" are not locks
    Another question, my husband asks when there will be new releases: "Armament"?
    1. +5
      3 March 2023 15: 40
      Quote from lisikat2
      Another question, my husband asks when there will be new releases: "Armament"?

      Hard to say. It depends on many circumstances.