Military Review

"Ukraine will want to join the Customs Union when its economy collapses completely"

131

The thesis that if Ukraine does not receive the next tranche of the IMF loan, it will turn towards Russia, is not true. People with two hands for joining the Customs Union. The maximum number of Ukrainian citizens who work abroad are in Russia. According to some data, funds from the 10 to 20% of the budget of Ukraine come from there.

Those who fill their pockets, quite well. Bad people

And just recently a speech was made by the Ambassador of Ukraine to Russia, Yelchenko, that Ukraine is considering the possibility of joining the Customs Union. However, the strongest information wave has risen, and they began to literally trample with their feet. And the other day a new message arrived that there was a statement by the official speaker of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine that there could be no question of joining the Customs Union. All legislative acts set the course for European integration. And in this respect he is right. Indeed, there are plenty of documents that Ukraine should euro-integrate, and that it should not join the Customs Union. Ukraine has an interesting position in the CIS. She is one of the organizers, but has not signed most of the documents.

The game goes on one note: “World crisis! European crisis! Everyone is bad! ”Listen, who is bad? Those who fill their pockets, quite well. Bad people. Namely, those who fill their pockets and make decisions. Those who are bad, they want rapprochement in order to live better. And those who are well, do not want to come closer: they already live well. Today's election has one unpleasant aspect. Earlier than bragged? By car, expensive diamond watches, villa. Then they began to boast that they became deputies. And at the same convocation the conversations went like this: “And my manager became a deputy!” - “And my three managers became deputies!”

Until 14 December through the parliament they want to push through the new version of the law on languages

If we analyze the lists of current deputies, we will see quite a few people who are not related either to the field of public administration or to the field of analytics, journalism, and information. They simply entered the environment of the oligarchs and, having shown themselves with the best hand in their eyes, got carte blanche to become people's elected representatives. I do not say that such - the vast majority, but there are many. This is also an interesting feature of the current Ukrainian reality. Therefore, to say that Ukraine will unfold in the direction of the Customs Union, there are no prerequisites for today.

Prerequisites may arise when the economy collapses completely. That's when the cry comes up: “Chef, everything is gone, the client is leaving, the cast is removed!” Then the tops can decide to join the Customs Union. But then, will the organizers of the Customs Union be willing to accept on such terms? This is a topic for a separate discussion. In the meantime, I do not see prospects. These thoughts do not even roam at the level of those who make the decision. At least, this will be in the next two and a half - three months. Until they sit down in their chairs, until they distribute posts, roles and places, until then there will be nothing. So, one can look skeptical about the turn towards Russia during this period. However, before the end of the current parliament, that is, before December 14, many expect to curtail even the law by which the Russians became a national minority, that is, they want to push through the new wording of the law on languages. And this is already a reality.
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  1. Forget
    Forget 20 November 2012 15: 50
    +12
    Eh .. Ukrainians do not spare you your power ...
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 20 November 2012 15: 58
      +29
      Quote: Forget

      Eh .. Ukrainians do not spare you your power.

      And where does the government pity its people? Ukraine wants to join the EU, but the EU does not want Ukraine with its economy still strong enough. EU needs consumers, not producers. Ukraine will not join the EU NEVER!!!
      1. tarks
        tarks 20 November 2012 16: 29
        +40
        I do not want in the EU. in the EU want oligarchy and Natsuki. neither will work.
        1. Kaa
          Kaa 20 November 2012 17: 29
          +20
          Quote: tarks
          in the EU want oligarchy and Natsuki. neither will work.

          The first ones do not want to, because then all accounts and incomes will have to be legalized, they will not be able to pay either "gray" or "black" salaries. The second - they want, but do not understand that, having got into the EU, “even though a carcass, even a stuffed animal,” they will automatically lose the opportunity to work in Russia, and there are more of them “on earnings” in Russia than in Geyrop. They do not enter, that utility rates will jump, that the remnants of agriculture will be covered with a leaky basin, as in the Baltics. Honestly, it seems to me that both are pleased to hang out, like something in an ice hole, between the EU and the CU, but this cannot go on forever. The remnants of the Soviet legacy are over, but capitalist debts have grown, it will end with a big deal in the economy and soon, plaintive songs will begin - "We ourselves are not local European, serve for food, our pocket was ripped off with a grenade. At the expense of the "irresponsible South-East" Ukraine is holding on ... for now ...
          1. MichaelVl
            MichaelVl 20 November 2012 22: 09
            +8
            Kaa,
            So slovtsoooooooooo - GEYROPA :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
            I am now the only way to call Europe and I will!
            Class! :))))))
        2. alex shnajder
          alex shnajder 21 November 2012 01: 05
          0
          and I do not want))) if only in Switzerland)
      2. TRON
        TRON 20 November 2012 16: 31
        +4
        But if we are poor, for what money will we consume?
        1. Old skeptic
          Old skeptic 20 November 2012 16: 43
          +18
          How the Greeks will take loans, and then save and tighten their belts.
          1. silver_roman
            silver_roman 20 November 2012 18: 31
            +4
            that the people will soon have a waist diameter of 2 mm from such tightening. the capital only seems to stand out against the backdrop of beautiful banners with advertising.
          2. TRON
            TRON 20 November 2012 18: 41
            +1
            Consuming again will not work because we will save and tighten our belts
          3. olegyurjewitch
            olegyurjewitch 20 November 2012 21: 16
            +4
            Quote: Old Skeptic
            How the Greeks will take loans, and then save and tighten their belts.

            The state will save, due to social programs, save due to job cuts and the rest of the delights of the economic bondage into which your government is so torn.
            1. alexng
              alexng 21 November 2012 06: 32
              0
              But they are already stuck and fell into economic bondage at the WEST. Economic problems remained, but debts appeared. Now Ukraine is left face to face with its troubles. The self-liquidator timer is running. It’s a pity, of course, the people, but the policy pursued by Ukraine does not suit either Russia or the Geyropa. Now time is working against her, and this is not a joke. The collapse of Ukraine into separate fragments is possible.
        2. Kaa
          Kaa 20 November 2012 17: 30
          +7
          Quote: TRON

          But if we are poor

          Are we rich now? Only Moldovans among our neighbors are "richer" than us ...
          1. TRON
            TRON 20 November 2012 18: 46
            +5
            And if among the neighbors around the globe, maybe not as poor as we like to pretend to be? The day before yesterday I went to the market - there is nowhere to park the car - all are so poor. wink
          2. Ascetic
            Ascetic 21 November 2012 00: 06
            +5
            Quote: Kaa
            Are we rich now? Only Moldovans among our neighbors are "richer" than us ...


            I remembered the joke.
            Two lads meet
            One another says in our family everything is, so we are rich.
            The other answers-We now also have everything.
            How so, now?
            Father speaks to mother yesterday; "Honey, I think I have hemorrhoids"
            "Only this was not enough for us" meets the mother.
            So in Ukraine, in addition to hemorrhoids, no wealth, and in addition to massacre in the Rada, no miracles.
        3. not good
          not good 20 November 2012 21: 11
          +2
          It is not you who will consume, but YOU will be, it’s very good to consume.
        4. Ilyich
          Ilyich 20 November 2012 23: 22
          0
          But if we are poor, for what money will we consume?

          For credit, my friend, for credit ... sad
      3. aleksey
        aleksey 20 November 2012 16: 49
        +4
        Why is the EU a poor country? to then contain it as Greece? What to take from Ukraine - there really aren’t any natural resources ..
        1. Kaa
          Kaa 20 November 2012 17: 32
          +5
          Quote: aleksey
          What to take from Ukraine - there are really no natural resources.

          Chernozem for rape growing ... for biofuels, improve the ecology of Western Europe ...
          1. in reserve
            in reserve 20 November 2012 17: 49
            +3

            Kaa
            Chernozem for rape growing ... for biofuels, improve the ecology of Western Europe ...

            He said that he was ready to sell the chernozem lands for some sort of rapeseed, if only they would take it to the EU, where it is spread with oil.
            1. Kaa
              Kaa 20 November 2012 21: 00
              +4
              Quote: in stock
              I’m ready to sell the chernozem lands under some sort of rape if only the EU takes it,

              Do you seriously think that someone in Ukraine is worried about the ecological problem of Western Europe? crying Yes, our newly-minted "hovermers" have already consumed half of the chernozems with one sunflower. Rape is used by "civilized Europeans" to get rid of competitors in grain production. And the newly-minted "land owners" live according to the principle - after us - even though the grass does not grow, it does not grow, so they are being used to sow rape. And for this you need, IMHO - "sowed-grabbed-in jail"! negative
          2. Genry
            Genry 20 November 2012 18: 18
            +4
            Chernozem was a hundred years ago. Now there are loams, which are distributed in whole fields for summer cottages (around Kiev, as I see it).
            And growing rapeseed, for energy purposes, is less efficient than generating electricity from solar panels (then into hydrogen fuel). The equator zone here is more valuable than Ukraine (this is about the need for Europe).
          3. TRON
            TRON 20 November 2012 19: 19
            +4
            just about time can already earn in a different way except to trade resources.
          4. Nick
            Nick 20 November 2012 23: 28
            0
            Quote: Kaa
            Black soil for rape growing ... for biofuels, improve the ecology of Western Europe

            Rapeseed greatly depletes the soil. sowing is possible once every five years on the same field. What do the rest four years do?
    2. askort154
      askort154 20 November 2012 16: 07
      +3
      Forgot KZ Today, 15:50 p.m.
      Eh .. your power does not spare you ...

      If not a secret, name the country where the government pities its people?
    3. Kaa
      Kaa 20 November 2012 17: 15
      +8
      Quote: Forget
      your power does not spare you.

      Yes, we, too ... do not regret and do not favor it ... We have a treaty of non-interference with her for now - she does not touch us (for the soul), we - her (for the egg ...). Till... yes
    4. edge
      edge 20 November 2012 18: 03
      +1
      Quote: Forget
      Eh .. Ukrainians do not spare you your power ..

      each nation is worthy of its rulers because it depends only on the people who will sit in chairs .......... (those whom they drag or ....)
      1. TRON
        TRON 20 November 2012 19: 20
        +1
        Absolutely agree
    5. Rink
      Rink 20 November 2012 19: 28
      +15
      No, I do not agree with the author.

      Ukraine will turn towards Russia in general and TC in particular only when Russia becomes stronger than America, at least in our region. The servile consciousness of the political elite dictates it to lick a strong ass. They think: - "America is strong, it has a lot of money. Russia is weak, if you cooperate with it, America will knock on the head." This is the first thought.
      Second: - "Russia will come - all enterprises will be taken away by their businessmen, and they will put their governors in power everywhere, and they will throw us out into the street. The Americans are against Russia, it is more profitable to be their governors, this is a way to keep your place at the trough."

      So that Ukrainian politicians / oligarchs do not protest against unification with Russia, it is necessary that:
      1. They were confident in the safety of their privatized estates;
      2. See the personal benefits of such an association. If you smell money, they will come running, they will not go anywhere ...

      You can wait for the people to expel this "elite" forever.
      This probably requires a civil war, and Ukrainians will take up arms only if there is some sharp catastrophic deterioration, and it should be clear that some specific group of people is to blame for this, and not a faceless crisis. With a smooth deterioration in the standard of living, people will endure and quietly emigrate.

      If Russia does not want to have an insidious American-controlled neighbor in the person of Ukraine at its side, it needs to act by the same methods as the United States: to buy the elite by the piece, to promote “its own” to parliament; buy journalists, help them get promoted, become "fashionable" and influential, and gradually form their own lobby in the Ukrainian media. The only way.
      1. anchonsha
        anchonsha 20 November 2012 19: 44
        +2
        Yes, they bought them and explained what was bad, what was good, but still betrayed. So it’s better not to throw money in vain. Your problems, solve them yourself. With Kuchma they could half as much as the cost of gas and oil, but no — Kuchma was looking towards the West.
        1. ikrut
          ikrut 21 November 2012 02: 39
          +6
          anchonsha, Will mince me, but I think you're right. On occasion, they will certainly sell. There will certainly be some grievances or complexes of the "junior". Therefore, if Ukrainian territories are admitted to any organization, only by regions. Precisely as a territory. And leave songs and dances for the ethnos. Even Khmelnitsky fell under Russia because he was offended by the Polish king. Although I swore to him. And, interestingly, the eastern registered (hired) Cossacks received money for their service from the Polish king, but they fought with him. And one of the reasons for the riots was the king's refusal to pay them money for the riots. It's like this all the time. With the same - we are friends, then we are at war. And even among themselves. And it would be fine if they were looking for their own good - but no. It is much more pleasant if the neighbor is bad. Heavy genetic legacy. It was not from a good life that people went to robbers and thieves (that is, Cossacks). And also the Polovtsians, Khazars, Tatars, gentry, Lithuanians, Swedes, Muscovites ... Everyone walked. Due to the times of troubles, the current "project Ukraine" is still breathing. But how the main players in the world and Europe will be determined - I personally expect serious shocks. Although I really do not want them.
          1. MG42
            MG42 21 November 2012 04: 37
            +3
            Mazepa Heritage crying HZ - well, let’s say we can separate Galicia, but Bandera’s people are not very needed in Europe either. Look at the main lobbyist of Ukraine in the EU - Poland, she, too, has now turned her back on Ukraine. And the latest news, the EU-Ukraine Summit will not take place for the first time in 15 years - the EC said that they see no reason to meet, well, about the new loan, I wrote below $ 1 billion.
            For the first time in the past 15 years, the Ukraine-EU summit will not be held.
            On Friday, November 16, Ukrainian Ambassador to the EU Konstantin Eliseev told reporters in Brussels, Delo reports with reference to the Polish Gazeta Wyborcza.
            According to the diplomat, the summit will not take place, since the EU has no motivation to determine its date. Although the EU will hold the second summit this year with Russia.

            http://rus.newsru.ua/ukraine/18nov2012/summit.html
      2. bootlegger
        bootlegger 20 November 2012 20: 56
        -2
        It’s easier to ruin you and divide, and then attach for free, in parts.
        And throwing beads is an expensive pleasure and not our method.
        I think we’ll start from the Crimea ...
        1. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 20 November 2012 21: 03
          +1
          Quote: bootlegger
          I think we’ll start from the Crimea ...
          Finish with Chechnya right away. Such a talker sits snugly at a computer and shares. Puzo pick up, strategist.
          1. bootlegger
            bootlegger 20 November 2012 21: 07
            0
            Believe me. I didn’t end with those in 90 ... I have experience. Get your mind, puppy ...
            1. gladiatorakz
              gladiatorakz 20 November 2012 21: 10
              -3
              Quote: bootlegger
              Believe me. I didn’t end with those in 90 ... I have experience. Puppy ...
              You signed at the end for sure. In Ukrainian, you are Tsutsk.
              1. bootlegger
                bootlegger 20 November 2012 21: 20
                +2
                Is there Ukrainian? I only heard surzhik ... And then that will divide you and do not hesitate.
                1. gladiatorakz
                  gladiatorakz 20 November 2012 21: 26
                  -1
                  Quote: bootlegger
                  Is there Ukrainian? I only heard surzhik ... And then that will divide you and do not hesitate.
                  Narrow-mindedness never graced a man. Read a book or something.
                  1. bootlegger
                    bootlegger 20 November 2012 21: 31
                    -4
                    Quote: gladiatorakz
                    Narrow-mindedness never adorned a man.

                    Typically female commentary. Are you sure you're a man?
                    1. gladiatorakz
                      gladiatorakz 20 November 2012 21: 40
                      0
                      bootlegger "Typically female commentary." You can see your father in childhood did not tell what qualities a man should have. Therefore, you are used to women telling you how to behave. Get out of the habit. You are bitten to me. Information, thoughts - zero, but why do you drag yourself into some squabbles. Well, I went to sleep !!!
                      1. webdog
                        webdog 21 November 2012 00: 10
                        +1
                        gladiatorakz you that do not understand? you're talking to the troll)))
                        his task is to bring someone to emotions and start a mess in the forum.
                        they get paid for it ...
                        as soon as you feel that you are being taken out - immediately consider it a Troll.
                        normal forum users communicate culturally and respectfully, if the subscriber deserves it. and on trolls just do not pay attention. you just have to complain to the admin about him.
                        business then, and you immediately scream, make noise)))
                        do not mind it!!!
        2. Rink
          Rink 20 November 2012 23: 39
          +4
          Quote: bootlegger
          It’s easier to ruin you and divide, and then attach for free, in parts.
          And throwing beads is an expensive pleasure and not our method ....

          Do you think that you have thrown the beads right now? But more like feces.
          Now (so far) a significant percentage of the population in Ukraine is pro-Russian. But if Russia begins to act by such methods, I think the situation will change dramatically.

          Now, while the Ukrainians cannot understand who exactly is to blame for their situation, they have no goal (in the sense of who to shoot at). Do you want to clip on those concentric circles with a ten in the center? Want to join 45 million hostile and angry people?

          I would like to hope that Russian politicians are more reasonable than your proposals.
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 21 November 2012 00: 18
            +2
            Quote: Skating rink
            But if Russia begins to act by such methods, I think the situation will change dramatically.


            This is what he seeks. Butleger is an underground trader, smuggler. He plays in Al Capone
          2. bootlegger
            bootlegger 21 November 2012 01: 04
            -1
            Well, thank you for being Russian-minded. Just what do we want from this? It seems that you are trying to sell this your location to us and think that we should be grateful for it. You see, you should be interested in the TS and then you will think!
            So I’m trying to explain that all this trade has its limits. The degree of decay in Ukraine can exceed the critical one and they simply stop perceiving you as a valuable and necessary side in the allies. Nobody wants to buy you completely.
            Already now it is not very clear why you are needed with a GDP of only 7% of the Russian Federation and with a population of 1/3 of it? Yes, the population is needed, of course. Territories are also of course needed. But to take this entire education in conjunction with the rights of an independent state is pointless.
            Clearly, you will come to demand and pump up rights and bargain. To knock out money, to pull juices. Then you will not like something and you will leave, slamming the door and gaining debts, like Greece to the EU.
            Why do we need it in this form and with such a prospect? We don’t have time, for us it’s only a loss of pace and resource. You, as a full-fledged ally, are not very reliable and you will not give strategic gain when attracting you to the TS. But tactically, now the alliance with you is a sure loss. Such chess turns out ..
            And if you do not bother with all kinds of nonsense, then now you are just a competitor. Moreover, a weak competitor. And the laws of economics and life are inexorable and cynical. Although they are fair, in their own way.
            Weak countries, like weak corporations, undergo separation and absorption. And the weaker they are, the less they have the ability to dictate their terms. And alas, this is the easiest and most reliable way. Although sad for you.
            1. Rink
              Rink 21 November 2012 01: 59
              +1
              Quote: bootlegger
              .... this is the easiest and most reliable way. Although sad for you.

              For me, it’s not sad, I generally had a better life in the USSR.
              Only if such a position of yours becomes widespread will there be no merger or absorption.
              There will be another continuous conflict along the borders of Russia. There will be a lot of fire and a lot of blood.
              However, you probably achieve this.
              1. bootlegger
                bootlegger 21 November 2012 08: 49
                -1
                No, not at all. I simply don’t like the option of a new USSR with the initially laid down confederate mines at its foundation. Conflict near the borders of the Russian Federation, this is certainly bad, but even worse is the conflict within its borders. Or an economic conflict that will certainly follow if we combine according to the proposals you principles.
                And it is not clear why you are immediately waiting for a bloody conflict? I just mean your joining in the form of regions without the right of further self-determination, and not taking you into slavery. It is possible that some part of the Ukrainian elite will be against this scenario, since they will have something to lose. And does the majority of the population care? It will not lose anything, and perhaps even gain.
      3. MichaelVl
        MichaelVl 20 November 2012 22: 20
        +1
        But civil wars are not necessary under any circumstances! It is not necessary to shake and bomb everything to smithereens ... But to restore everything later is difficult, long and painful ... Well, and "brother's blood on brother's" is the last thing for civilized people ... God forbid !
      4. ughhh
        ughhh 21 November 2012 00: 12
        +2
        Quote: Skating rink
        she needs to follow the same methods as the states

        and, as I understand it, you need to start with the Orange Revolution ...
  2. MILITARY RF
    MILITARY RF 20 November 2012 16: 05
    +34
    We all feel ....... that we are stronger and better.
  3. baltika-18
    baltika-18 20 November 2012 16: 08
    +12
    I read it, I wanted to write a big comment first, I have a lot of thoughts about this. Then I realized it makes no sense. We will be together when we change power, we change the system.
  4. NAV-STAR
    NAV-STAR 20 November 2012 16: 14
    +18
    The entry of Ukraine into the CU is a step towards the rejoicing of a great power, which is unacceptable for the West, and it is the Anglo-Saxons who keep Ukrainian officials in one place (property abroad) so that the water is muddied, but they do this to themselves by the verdict and stigma of traitors, in future books on the story.
    1. White
      White 20 November 2012 16: 25
      -8
      All these conspiracy theories are complete nonsense, no one is holding anyone for the "balls", and all officials have property abroad, this is their attitude to the Motherland warmed up, warmed up and fled to where it is more pleasant to live. Do not you really think that, for example, Luzhkov or Abramovich was pressed by someone.
    2. Kaa
      Kaa 20 November 2012 17: 36
      +7
      Quote: NAV-STAR
      here are the Anglo-Saxons and hold Ukrainian officials for one place (property abroad),

      Former Prime Minister Lazarenko was demonstratively planted in the United States, with 280 million bucks smashed in Ukraine confiscated in their favor. In 2004, Kuchma was so frightened that he allowed the Maydan revolution. For 8 years, the people looked at some, at others, and realized that they constantly changed the price for soap ... but where is the fat?
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 20 November 2012 22: 01
        +3
        Quote: Kaa
        Former Prime Minister Lazarenko is indicatively planted in the United States, with the confiscation of 280 million slammed in Ukraine in their favor

        Do you know why 280 million bucks settled in the American treasury?
        The network posted photos of documents sent by the US prosecutor Yulia Tymoshenko. With a request to present claims for this money, but no claims were presented and the money went to the American treasury.
        The American Themis tried to find out the circle of interested parties and the mechanism for receiving money ........... how could Julia say that she was an associate of Lazarenko?
        Grandmas are gone .........
        1. MG42
          MG42 20 November 2012 22: 58
          +3
          Why so close-up, this lady is now in the clinic under guard, then will return back to the colony. By the way, Lazarenko should already be released on November 1 from prison in the United States.
          Whoever steers now is better? Life especially in Ukraine under Yanukovych has not improved; the 2nd wave of the crisis is just beginning.
    3. arkady149
      arkady149 20 November 2012 22: 19
      +1
      Quote: NAV-STAR
      Anglo-Saxons and hold Ukrainian officials for one place (property abroad),
      , Well, not only for cutting a hedgehog, it also happens for "three rubles" cancer.
  5. Kolyan 2
    Kolyan 2 20 November 2012 16: 15
    0
    And for some reason I would not be surprised if they adopt the law on nat. minorities. When will the power in our countries at least most politicians become adequate? request
    1. tarks
      tarks 20 November 2012 16: 31
      +4
      when enough adequate non-politicians accumulate.
  6. White
    White 20 November 2012 16: 18
    +7
    Why it is all written incomprehensibly, a few phrases about nothing, the only thing that will again be escalated negative in the comments.
    But still a few thoughts:
    1. The oligarchs, just nothing is clear with them for the rulers of the chem. and metallurgical plants, cheap gas is very profitable, and if they do not run to the vehicle, then it is not so simple and obvious with the conditions of entry.
    2. About the citizens of Ukraine, everything is very complicated here - partly with two hands for Russia (but this is more a belief in the former greatness of the Union), partly with two hands for the EU, it is still more interesting here even they practically do not believe that they will accept us there, and if they will accept that the only possible benefit is the Schengen area, and a third of those who do not see prospects in either direction.
    And most of them are not for the vehicle, but for cheap gas, for me, these are two different things.
    1. yurasumy
      yurasumy 20 November 2012 16: 34
      +11
      I will express my opinion. For a country to exist as an independent state, an "idea" is needed. For the modern Ukrainian state, if I may put it that way, the "idea" is to join a united Europe (no matter in what form it is even expressed). Therefore, Ukraine's entry into an alliance with Russia will be sincere and irreversible (and not as now Russia is trying to do it by twisting its arms with the help of the economy), only after the collapse of the EU, as a pole of attraction. Then Ukraine, which has lost its "state idea," will return to the family. " Then the western part of Ukraine will not be too busy. 1991 will repeat itself in reverse. Western Ukraine will be at a loss and not understanding where to go next, while eastern Ukraine will show it a vector to the east. Now, if, in a simplified way, somewhere this "reunification with Russia" should take place in the conditions of the beginning of the 21st century according to a natural scenario. Although, of course, "options" are also possible. But I don’t think these options will bring “happiness” to Russia or Ukraine. For the union to be sincere, it is necessary that everyone wants it sincerely. This is possible only with the disintegration of Europe, as a unifying principle. I think that it will not be earlier than two years from now. Maybe more. But no more than five.
      Here is my opinion.
      1. plotnikov561956
        plotnikov561956 20 November 2012 18: 14
        +4
        (and not as Russia is now trying to do this by twisting hands with the help of the economy),
        There is no need to dissemble in this place ... You perfectly understand that this is a payment for the anti-Russian policy of the Ukrainian elite.
        1. White
          White 20 November 2012 18: 21
          -2
          Make it clear to me about the anti-Russian policy; apart from Yushchenko’s attempts with the Holodomor, I don’t see anything. Just do not talk about the language we have Russian blossoms and smells.
        2. yurasumy
          yurasumy 20 November 2012 19: 26
          +3
          Respected
          plotnikov561956.
          I have no complaints about Russia. In principle, this is her right. I just wanted to say that this way they will not get Ukraine. Love is only mutual. And nothing else. Believe me, as an ordinary citizen of Ukraine, it is neither cold nor hot from the gas price (this is the main factor in twisting your arms). Again, for many Ukrainians too. Let me explain. The price of gas for the utility company over the period of the contract has changed only slightly for consumers (significantly for those who consume more than 6000 cubic meters per year. And this is far from the poor part of the population. For example, I paid roughly 50 kopecks. * 2500 cubic meters = 1200 UAH in year, and began to pay 0,73 kopecks * 2500 cubic meters = 1825 hryvnias per year.) Further, gas prices for the industry hit the profits of the owners more than the people. Real wages have not decreased (I will not exclude special cases. Although, in general, work has become much worse. But here it is not about gas, but about the general global crisis.) The chemical industry (the main consumer), for example, in 2011 worked with increasing volumes despite exorbitant price. Although, to be correct, the Ukrainian Khimprom belongs to Firtash. And the government of Ukraine gave him 10 billion cubic meters. But again, people don't care about the price of gas. And to the Ukrainian Khimprom too. Firtash will never leave VVP. Therefore, it worked and will work. And now about the anti-Russian policy of the Ukrainian elite. After Yanukovych came to power, you heard her a lot. No. About Russia in the Ukrainian government in 2010-2011, or good or nothing. And when Ukraine decided not to "steal", as Gazprom likes to say, but to buy less gas at a fabulous price, they twist their hands with a contract. So, who is cunning. Me or you. Again, believe it or not. The key to Ukraine's heart lies through Europe. It will be possible to destroy it and Russia will receive Ukraine as a prize. And voluntarily. Otherwise, I think nothing. And certainly not by twisting your arms.
          1. anchonsha
            anchonsha 20 November 2012 19: 52
            +2
            Listen, honey, but you better stay in Europe and don’t fool us. Yes, you lived and paid for gas as in Russia under Kuchma, how much Russia has lost billions, but to no avail. Kuchma, Tymoshenko, Yush and looked towards the EU. Well, look further there. And then we won’t twist our hands with gas. Whoever wants to does so.
            1. yurasumy
              yurasumy 20 November 2012 20: 27
              +5
              Respected
              anchonsha
              You think in terms of personal and not state categories. (By the way, most Ukrainians look like you. The main thing for them is that there is work.) In geopolitics, they do not think in terms of money, but think in terms of influence. Money is not an end, but a means (gas, oil, by the way, too). Gas in exchange for loyalty is a very short-sighted policy. With my posts above, I tried to show that in order to "return to the family" Russia must either destroy the "state idea" of modern Ukraine in the form of joining the European family, or propose its own "idea" (which is not yet visible), and better both. And I won't let you think in terms of gas, money, you give us, and you give us this in the bazaar, and not in serious showdowns where the fate of tens of millions of people (yours and mine, by the way, too) are decided.
              1. MichaelVl
                MichaelVl 20 November 2012 22: 41
                0
                yurasumy
                Talk about the lack of an idea in Russia ... So the TS is a mutually beneficial idea. It was you who narrowed the idea of ​​the TSUyuz only to gas, and you reduce everything in such a way that Russia is trying to "twist" with this notorious gas ... but this is not at all the case. The Customs Union is called so precisely because it unites by the abolition of barriers to trade, accelerates joint work, abolishes duties, etc., etc. And plus to all this, Russia will also make the same gas cheaper, as an additional bonus! And you are all "twisting with gas, but twisting with gas" :)
                1. yurasumy
                  yurasumy 21 November 2012 11: 36
                  0
                  Dear Mikhail
                  I have not touched the vehicle. TS is a tool. Why do I not consider the TS as a "national idea of ​​Russia"? The TS ideology is based on the creation of its own "living space." Those. the ideology of survival among the world's sharks. But the frame of the vehicle is similar to the frame of the same EU in essence. Nothing fundamentally new has been proposed here. Those. it is the "national idea of ​​Europe" translated into Russian realities. This is a Russian defense strategy that will buy time, but not the entire party. Because the game is played according to the rules invented not by her, but by the West. We need an "ideology", we need "new rules of the world game" in which the West will not have an irresistible head start. These rules are the national idea. And if these rules are accepted by others, then consider that victory is in your pocket. For example, the rejection of money as a "measure", the core of the economy (I do not insist on this. Perhaps this is a bad idea. I am not a professional economist. This example is to understand the "scale" of the necessary changes)
    2. storm
      storm 21 November 2012 01: 11
      +1
      Everything is possible with us, I won’t be surprised that the oligarchs are on their own met. and chemical plants do not use Russian gas, but their own production, which should completely go to the needs of the population!
  7. Nechai
    Nechai 20 November 2012 16: 19
    +5
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Ukraine will never join the EU NEVER !!!

    Strongly reminiscent of the heroine of one of the numbers of Elena Vorobei Yuri Galtsev "Well, take me."
    It can work on itself on its own, since it’s so nice in Europe-pu, so that the invitations flock to the race ?! AND?!
  8. Mr.Fox
    Mr.Fox 20 November 2012 16: 46
    +10
    The people with both hands for? What kind of people? He has no idea what this customs union is and does not want to know. Everyone lives with problems like "what to eat to buy?"
  9. VadimSt
    VadimSt 20 November 2012 17: 10
    +2
    Quote: Mr.Fox
    The people with both hands for? What kind of people? He has no idea what this customs union is and does not want to know. Everyone lives with problems like "what to eat to buy?"

    + 100%. For the most part, citizens of Ukraine have become apolitical! I’m talking about the majority, of which, in quantitative composition, is the southeast of Ukraine. People have lost faith in the blue and white party, which promised a lot in the development of relations with Russia - Party of Regions. All their draft slogans and projects have remained, only slogans, and not even projects.
    Recent elections have shown that confidence in the representatives of this party continues to fall, which is why the current government allowed itself more falsifications than their orange predecessors.
    And Western Ukraine, with two hands FOR, and quite active. It is natural! Is a resident of the Far East interested in what happens with the movement of goods, services and labor migration in Kaliningrad? And the views of those who consider themselves an elite, bosses from the authorities, are directed to the West - there are their contributions, there is the future of their children, there is their quiet pension, next to Luzhkov or Berezovsky!
    1. Genry
      Genry 20 November 2012 17: 56
      +1
      Quote: VadimSt
      Party of Regions. All their draft slogans and projects have remained, only slogans, and not even projects.

      Did you support them with your voice? I doubt it! They do not have a constitutional majority in the Rada, and therefore there is no demand.

      Quote: VadimSt
      the current government, allowed itself more falsifications than their predecessors - the orange.

      I don’t catch you. Tymoshenko-Yushchenko’s gas agreements were surpassed somewhere, but I didn’t notice?

      Quote: VadimSt
      And Western Ukraine, with two hands FOR, and quite active.

      You want to say that zapadentsy squeak of love for Russia. They are you, as an enemy of Ukraine, instantly ....
  10. VPO
    VPO 20 November 2012 17: 19
    +3
    Brothers Ukrainians just need to understand that the EU does not need them (there are such nonhumans and is so full from the Baltic states) they need Ukraine only as a territory on which it is possible to place offensive weapons. The whole east of the EU sees it as a storehouse of resources in whose territory barbarians live. The colonialists usually do not talk to barbarians, but gradually destroy them. All Ukraine’s problems are that politicians there either steal, or democratize, or try to climb to the top in order to either steal or sow democracy. Unlike Ukraine, they are only stealing from us so far. The medveputes had the intelligence to understand that this is their cow and they milk it.
    1. White
      White 20 November 2012 17: 38
      -17
      So Russia - Ukraine is not needed by and large. For Russia, this is a matter of prestige and an opportunity to prove greatness.
      1. Fox
        Fox 20 November 2012 17: 51
        +9
        do you think I need my brothers for prestige? ... think when you write.
        1. White
          White 20 November 2012 17: 59
          -4
          I did not write about people and personal relations, I wrote about the state relations. Economic actions very clearly show that Russia does not care much that there would be a day on the territory occupied by Ukraine, the main thing is that this territory should be subordinate to it.
          1. anchonsha
            anchonsha 20 November 2012 19: 57
            0
            Shisha, do I need your thorium thorium? We have our territory as you want. It’s just easier to live together and confront the same West, so as not to be eaten. And if you want, then remaining with your territory, there are still no minerals on it
            1. bart74
              bart74 21 November 2012 00: 54
              0
              Why are you guys the territory is in vain to divide. Well this is all ours. Russian!
      2. in reserve
        in reserve 20 November 2012 17: 55
        0

        White
        So Russia - Ukraine is not needed by and large. For Russia, this is a matter of prestige and an opportunity to prove greatness.

        even spit in the eyes - and then God's dew
        It’s useless for you to explain to Ukrainians that UNITY IS POWER.
        1. White
          White 20 November 2012 18: 08
          +2
          It’s useless for you to explain to Ukrainians that UNITY IS POWER.
          didn’t catch what it is about?

          Well look: Gas price, cheese war, free trade zone agreement with quotas for Ukraine, now here is a new porcelain ban, there were restrictions on Ukrainian railway cars, etc ........
          I just as well consider Russian (namely Russian) brothers and my attitude is extremely positive. But I feel Russia’s hatred of Ukraine as my .. sing and in this situation, talk of brotherhood sometimes causes controversy.

          And then clarify why Ukraine is important for Russia, except perhaps a couple of enterprises (Motor Sich, Zarya Mashproekt, Antonov Antonov)
          1. in reserve
            in reserve 20 November 2012 18: 44
            +2

            White
            didn’t catch what it is about?

            This is me about the fact that you consider Russia an imperial state and everyone thinks that we are realizing our dreams of greatness, you are deeply mistaken, I have never considered Ukraine a separate state for me, this is wild. Does hatred emanate from Russia? Hate emanates from the "western outskirts"? Look at our entire history when we are in discord, some of the Western states are trying to capture us one by one.
            1. Soldier
              Soldier 21 November 2012 07: 17
              0
              Quote: in stock
              I never considered Ukraine a separate state for me it is wild.
              I agree to all 100. No need to interfere in one heap, a “rotten government,” (it is not very much with us either) and the PEOPLE. I knew a lot of wonderful Ukrainian guys. I’m messing with myself for myself laughing (Yes, forgive me, my brothers Garn-lads do not know how to write Ukrainian)
            2. White
              White 21 November 2012 18: 34
              +1
              1.
              It's me that you consider Russia an imperial state and everyone thinks that we are realizing our dreams of greatness, you are deeply mistaken

              2.
              Never considered Ukraine a separate state for me it's wild


              Doesn't it seem to you that the first contradicts the second, at first you said that you do not have imperial ambitions, and then said that Ukraine is not a state, be that as it may, but thanks to the three true communists there are now 15 states, not the USSR.

              UNAUNSO marches and the prohibition of the Russian language
              .
              About UNA-UNSO, my grandfather fought in the Red Army, so I can’t have a positive attitude towards them, but if you’re so principled then Russia and Germany have such touching love, what do you think after the war they replaced all people or there are veterans no Wehrmacht.
              About Russian language never again never he was not banned Yushchenko had attempts to give preferences to Ukrainian and that’s it. But such as Latvia did not exist. And again, the question is, why do you not so often defend the Russian language in Kazakhstan, for example.
          2. d.gksueyjd
            d.gksueyjd 20 November 2012 18: 47
            +5
            And then clarify why Ukraine is important for Russia, except perhaps a couple of enterprises (Motor Sich, Zarya Mashproekt, Antonov Antonov)
            Sir, everything is simple to the point of banality, for example: my grandfather is Ukrainian (he fought with the Nazis in the Red Army, I have to stress), his wife is a gypsy (tabor), and their daughter (my mother) is Russian! Here is the state of things. I have many fellow soldiers and friends in Ukraine,
            and I am enraged by your Bender. How should I relate to Ukrainians? drinks
            1. White
              White 21 November 2012 18: 46
              0
              I’m not talking about myself or about you or about brother-in-law, mom and dad, I’m talking about state interests, and not about personal relationships between people. Well, we will unite well and that Russia will have another subsidized region. Well, what could be the logical interests of Russia in relation to Ukraine:
              1. economic - our economy is weak and highly dependent on external factors - there are at least benefits for you.
              2.political - it is very mixed in our country, so you cannot count on us.
              3. military - for the same reasons as paragraph 2.
              In reality, Russia in general does not need anyone for happiness from you, and so everything is there, you just need to learn how to use it.
          3. anchonsha
            anchonsha 20 November 2012 20: 03
            0
            But you fought against Georgia against Russia, shot down planes and now you want to be loved very much in Russia And you wouldn’t indulge with cheese, you wouldn’t drive crappy goods into Russia and everything would be fine. Both Motor Sich and Antonov’s ANTK are no longer needed by Russia, and not just the West. Well, about 10 years ago, yes, these plants would help us and you to solve things together. And now we have created our own same plants. So revel in independence.
          4. max-02215
            max-02215 20 November 2012 20: 06
            +5
            And then clarify why Ukraine is important for Russia, except perhaps a couple of enterprises (Motor Sich, Zarya Mashproekt, Antonov Antonov)

            Yes, because we are one people. and the country is one ..... here. pancake. ancestors do not see this, but in general it’s good that they do not see ........
            1. bart74
              bart74 21 November 2012 00: 56
              +1
              I agree. What is indivisible to share. This is only if, according to the brazen Saka law (which their Roman ancestors left them): "divide and rule"! That's how they divided us and are trying to bend us.
      3. plotnikov561956
        plotnikov561956 20 November 2012 18: 23
        +5
        Quote: White
        So Russia - Ukraine is not needed by and large. For Russia, this is a matter of prestige and an opportunity to prove greatness.

        Russia does not need to prove its Greatness ... all the more prestige. The Energy Union of Russia and Germany. It is a hammer and anvil for the Baltic states, Poland and, apparently, Ukraine is in this row, it is late with the North Train and the South passes by.
        1. WW3
          WW3 20 November 2012 23: 37
          +4
          Quote: plotnikov561956
          Ukraine is in this row, it’s late with the North train and the South passes by

          Are you talking about the gas pipelines North and South Stream. Yes - Ukraine will soon be without transit money.
          1. Kars
            Kars 20 November 2012 23: 52
            -3
            We’ve already gotten with these flows, it’s better to think about a stream that will go from the Caspian to bypassing the Russian Federation. There is an opportunity to use the gas storage in Western Ukraine under it. The Trans-Anatolian gas pipeline (TANAP),

            http://www.glavred.info/archive/2012/11/20/161831-10.html

            As for Ukraine, it’s better to have two options than give one to one. And it doesn’t matter to anyone --- because all the words about fraternity and so on with the Russian Federation are just WORDS. With the EU, at least everything is clear that there is pure business and nothing more. Therefore, it’s necessary to make the most of the situation. And Yanukovych has no other choice if he wants to be president after 15 years.
            1. WW3
              WW3 21 November 2012 01: 06
              +2
              Quote: Kars
              As for Ukraine, it is better to have two options than to give someone alone.

              You will chase after two hares, you will not catch a single one.
              Quote: Kars
              And without much difference to anyone --- because all the words about fraternity and so on with the Russian Federation are just WORDS.

              Yeah, friendship is friendship - money apart?
              Quote: Kars
              With the EU, at least everything is clear that there is a clean business and nothing more

              Yes. Only the EU Ukraine is not needed at all.
              Quote: Kars
              Therefore, it is necessary to maximize the benefits of the situation.

              Yes. Oil pipeline "Odessa - Brody" an example? as well as Ukrainian. Refinery?
              Quote: Kars
              And Yanukovych has no other choice if he wants to be president after 15

              Wanting is not harmful - it is harmful not to want.
              1. Kars
                Kars 21 November 2012 10: 27
                0
                Quote: WW3
                You will chase after two hares, you will not catch a single one.

                And you don’t chase rabbits, not a dog. Why did you come up with a shotgun? And if you want proverbs--
                A tender calf of two queens sucks.
                Quote: WW3
                Yeah, friendship is friendship - money apart?

                Yes, there is already no friendship, apart from family ties and a common history. And money in the bud - to each his own.
                Quote: WW3
                Yes. Only the EU Ukraine is not needed at all.

                So it’s wonderful, it’s better to be unnecessary than the object of imperial claims. But they don’t tell anything.
                Quote: WW3
                Yes. Oil pipeline "Odessa - Brody" an example? as well as Ukrainian. Refinery?

                Well, we are already getting gas in reverse, they are private refineries, even if they themselves want to get out of it. There are tons of other types of business.
                Quote: WW3
                To want is not harmful - it is harmful not to want

                This should not be a kassatha.
                1. WW3
                  WW3 21 November 2012 10: 44
                  +1
                  Congratulations on your marshall epaulettes smile it’s hard for you with such views on Russian-Ukrainian relations ....
                  Quote: Kars
                  Yes, there is no friendship anymore

                  well what is there to comment I have a completely different point of view ...
                  Quote: Kars
                  Well, gas is already in reverse

                  there is not gas true but pipeline
                  Quote: Kars
                  And money in the bud - to each his own

                  I have no doubt you are somewhere near these streams ...
                  Quote: Kars
                  So it’s wonderful, it’s better to be unnecessary than an object of imperial claims.

                  winked 2 wave of crisis is coming in Ukraine ...
                  ZY of those 5 minuses, I put mine after you slapped your marshal's "-40"
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 21 November 2012 10: 53
                    0
                    Quote: WW3
                    it is difficult for you with such views on Russian-Ukrainian relations

                    This is still a military review site, and not Ukrainian.
                    Quote: WW3
                    well what is there to comment I have a completely different point of view ...

                    Nobody is depriving you of this.
                    Quote: WW3
                    it’s not gas, but a pipeline

                    Really? It can’t be. Although, probably, the light did not wedge on Odessa-Brody.
                    Quote: WW3
                    I have no doubt you are somewhere near these streams

                    I’m near milk cheese, and 15% of our exports that went to the Russian Federation we have already redistributed to Kazakhstan (milk powder) and Hungary (cheese - and the EU ovskoy check did not find any differences from the Russian Federation)
                    Quote: WW3
                    2 wave of crisis is coming in Ukraine ...

                    It is coming all over the world, and not specifically to Ukraine. And this is a given for the economy, even the Russian Federation is affected by a decrease in demand for energy.

                    Quote: WW3
                    ZY of those 5 minuses, I put only one after you slapped your marshal's "-40"

                    It's okay, you used to put it, and in your comment with pictures of gas pipelines I’m even too lazy to put it.
                    1. WW3
                      WW3 21 November 2012 11: 01
                      +3
                      Quote: Kars
                      Really? It can't be.

                      yes the oil pipeline
                      http://best-ukraine.com.ua/index.html?go=14258
                      Quote: Kars
                      I'm near the milk cheese

                      Well, good luck, you need to make good cheese for export. Onishchenko will tell you how wink
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 21 November 2012 11: 30
                        0
                        Quote: WW3
                        yes the oil pipeline

                        C'mon, this will turn my whole world around.
                        Quote: WW3
                        Well, good luck, you need to make good cheese for export. Onishchenko will tell you how

                        But he knows how)))))))) And this is absolutely not important, there is no point in returning, especially to a country with opaque standards by which they try to exert pressure. Moreover, they passed accreditation to the EU, they did new packaging, they got certificates. Yes also in euros, and sell more expensively.
                      2. WW3
                        WW3 21 November 2012 11: 49
                        +3
                        You, Kars, did you accidentally vote for the Svoboda party at the last parliamentary elections in Ukraine? You are just blowing away with nationalism for three miles ...
                        Quote: Kars
                        with which they try to exert pressure.

                        Yes, you are taught how to make normal cheese without palm oil, and Onishchenko also cares indirectly about Ukrainians so that they also do not eat your cheese of poor quality ....
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 21 November 2012 11: 54
                        +1
                        Quote: WW3
                        You, Kars, did not accidentally vote for the Svoboda party

                        I accidentally voted for the communists.
                        Quote: WW3
                        Already from you just blows nationalism for three miles ...

                        And on Ukrainian sites they say that they are Muscovites. That is what it means to be a pro-patriotic patriot of your country.
                        Quote: WW3
                        yes you are taught how to make normal cheese without palm oil

                        Oh, you’re about business here.))))))) In our it never was, we use the palm only for cheese products and this is indicated on the label.
                        Quote: WW3
                        so that they also do not eat your cheese of poor quality ....

                        How much they will pay, they will eat such cheese.
                        And the cheese war from the side of the Russian Federation is no concern, and so on - it is an attempt to exert pressure to draw into the Customs Union and nothing more.
                      4. WW3
                        WW3 21 November 2012 12: 09
                        +2
                        Then fuse the cheese products to your inner Ukrainian. market under the guise of cheese, with Russia such a number did not pass! laughing
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 21 November 2012 12: 32
                        0
                        Quote: WW3
                        Then fuse the cheese products to your inner Ukrainian. market under the guise of cheese, with Russia such a number is not asked


                        This is along the way, I asked you who work where you study? Well, as you can see vocational schools?

                        As for cheese --- and cheese products everything is written on the packaging, you want to buy, you want to, no.
                        As for the Russian Federation, your technical conditions and falsifications in the domestic market are personally your problems. You, as it is, could not prove the presence of an undetected presence of vegetable fats using independent laboratories. What did not pass in the Russian Federation, for some reason, passed to the EU.
                        Can you conclude? At least I doubt it.
                      6. WW3
                        WW3 21 November 2012 12: 39
                        +3
                        Well, again, you went to the person, Kars winked "PTU" yes, my rating has grown in your eyes before you wrote that I was a "schoolboy" crying As for the grammar in your comments, you yourself would do well to sit down at your desk to learn the Russian language!
                        But thanks to sanctions from the Russian Federation, several factories in Ukraine simply stopped, but apparently it was beneficial - the goons paid for the modernization of the island.
                      7. Kars
                        Kars 21 November 2012 12: 50
                        0
                        Quote: WW3
                        Vocational school "yes, my rating has increased in your eyes before you wrote that I was a" schoolboy "

                        Well, I just won’t mention people like you here quite a lot. It’s more interesting that you didn’t answer, and technical training colleges are usually a replacement for the last classes of the school - well, this is for you to note.
                        Quote: WW3
                        sit down at your desk to learn the Russian language!

                        Too lazy to include spellchecking, and it’s not worth the effort.
                        Quote: WW3
                        but apparently it benefited - rednecks forked out for the modernization of the pr-va.

                        Again, nonsense --- why upgrade something if you say the whole thing is in a palm. Excluding it from those processes and all things, even stopping it is not necessary. Because there is the production of cheese, cheese product and processed cheese product. How do you not modernize you cheese you can’t give a product for cheese.
                        Generally thank you laugh.
                      8. WW3
                        WW3 21 November 2012 12: 59
                        +1
                        Yes, it’s clear that it’s not worth it, lol a rolling stone gathers no moss
                        "And on Ukrainian sites they say that Moskoli" yes, in Ukrainian. Spelling sites are complete gloom, I saw it for curiosity .. laughing
                        In principle, it is understandable with your "type" ... but here's why for the communists voted no, you are a typical Svoboda electorate, and the communists are in favor of a Union with Russia!
                      9. Kars
                        Kars 21 November 2012 13: 26
                        0
                        Quote: WW3
                        Yes, it’s clear that it’s not worth it, water does not flow under a lying stone

                        again an attempt to say something pseudo. Modernization is planned, there are new products — you tried to make the reason for the modernization of the Russian side, you were told that there was no need to modernize it. Congratulations to another geg.
                        Quote: WW3
                        Yes, in Ukrainian. spelling sites complete darkness, I have seen for curiosity ..

                        Personally, I somehow do not care about spelling, in Internet comments --- this is not an official correspondence or agreement. This is usually what losers pay attention to when they have nothing to say.
                        Quote: WW3
                        and the Communists advocate an alliance with Russia!

                        They advocate for a lot of things, but that does not mean that they want or will do it. You can also cite a clause on renouncing the sovereignty of Ukraine in the program of the Communist Party of Ukraine. I personally also am not against Russia as such, but I don’t see the reasons for doing it for my own positions. I personally voted for the communists from their social programs, a normal attitude towards the Russian Federation, not like freedom, the regions did not meet expectations, I don’t understand the principle for Yulbma and Yatsenikum, but I don’t understand that I’m explaining something to the fellow, 2 + 2 s labor without a calculator add up.
                      10. WW3
                        WW3 21 November 2012 13: 38
                        +1
                        Kars, wow, how you like to "poke" and be rude, but I do not become like, it is difficult to piss me off, and the mood is good, but you are not the manager of the highest Ukrainian "cheese and milk" link ... top managers do not allow themselves such lame grammar is nowhere ... except that "losers", and they have no time to sit out a slave. time on the net ... okay, the dialogue in the style of "the fool himself" is not for me, so let's stop at this perhaps.
                      11. Kars
                        Kars 21 November 2012 13: 50
                        0
                        Quote: WW3
                        but not likened

                        Do not be like)))))
                        Quote: WW3
                        and here you are the manager

                        it didn’t work out, but I’m at least on a topic indicating your gegs and poor preparation.
                        Quote: WW3
                        you are a manager

                        started, yes.
                        Quote: WW3
                        top managers do not allow themselves such a lame grammar anywhere

                        Is it strange that you know many top managers? Do you like the boot if I ask the secretary to write comments on VO for you, instead of her direct duties?
                        Quote: WW3
                        and they don’t have time to sit out a slave. online time

                        Yes indeed, far from leadership positions.
                        Quote: WW3
                        okay, the dialogue in the style of "the fool himself" is not for me, so let's stop at this perhaps.

                        it amuses me, it is necessary to rest somehow.
                        But the main thing is that all your attempts to cleverly talk about the cheese theme have failed miserably, and this will brighten up the time before dinner.
                        Quote: WW3
                        Ukrainian "cheese and milk" link

                        fourth in volume in Ukraine.
      4. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 20 November 2012 21: 05
        +3
        White,
        Crap, verb, dear! How many% of Russians live in Ukraine? and how many mixed marriages?
        Yes, every Russian, with the word Ukraine, has pain in his heart! Cut off live!
        1. storm
          storm 21 November 2012 01: 21
          +1
          EBN is who cut me off personally! Kravchuk asks: “Boris Nikolayevich, what are we going to do with Crimea?” To which Yeltsin bravely replies: “Take it for yourself!” So, in passing, they decided the fate of hundreds of thousands of people!
    2. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 20 November 2012 20: 55
      +2
      Quote: malware
      The colonialists usually do not talk to barbarians, but gradually destroy them.

      IN!!! And when they destroy everyone, they will destroy those who have more than them i.e. there is an opportunity to rob! What about culture? and this is Toko visibility!

      Wolf, he - the orderly of the forest why ??? Yes, because it’s difficult to cope with the healthy and long after the healthy to chase! Not enough breather!
      And when a wolf gets into a nightmare, he cuts all the sheep! What for??? And he can’t resist! ALL!

      And the brothers of the Ukrainians were "smoked" by those dear to their hearts, the EU! The EU and the United States "tried" to glory in pendyurit in the head "trouble" what is good and what is bad! And with whom to "live" and with whom to be friends!
      This is our common trouble! And they inserted the "problem" into us well!
      And how long will we remain simpletons?
      After all, it has long been known that one can become RICH - by stealing, cheating, etc.
      earn wealth - will not work!
      And a country can become prosperous if it does not wait for gifts from a neighbor, and, will look for options for joint cooperation for mutual benefit.
    3. TRON
      TRON 21 November 2012 20: 07
      0
      Well, why should Europe fight with us or Russia for resources? We ourselves will get everything for ourselves and bring it for money, and inexpensively.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 21 November 2012 20: 25
        0
        Quote: TRON
        Well, why should Europe fight with us or Russia for resources? We ourselves will get everything for ourselves and bring it for money, and inexpensively.
        Money - beads and mirrors for aborigines.
  11. andrei332809
    andrei332809 20 November 2012 17: 26
    +1
    sorry ho-x-lov.nadazhivaet them from Europe, and from Russia. but still it’s better for them to be with us, as it has historically developed, there is no difference between us. and zapadentsy will only smear the top of Ukraine on the lips, but will not do anything useful
  12. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 20 November 2012 17: 30
    +6
    Whatever the "democrats", "nationalists", Bendera, oligarchs and other bastards do - Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians are one whole. The time will just come and eternity will take place.
  13. merkel1961
    merkel1961 20 November 2012 17: 37
    +3
    For the United States, the main task is to prevent the unification of Ukraine and Belarus with Russia. Batka is not fooled by the beautiful wrapper of the "European integration" candy, and under Yushchenko the idea of ​​joining NATO triumphed, allowed him to glorify local fighters for independence and thereby contribute to the destruction of the nation. except for playing a provocative role, Ukraine was not seriously considered, the fence for Russia, yes, as an integral part for the EU, is unlikely, there are plenty of their own problems.
  14. SSR
    SSR 20 November 2012 17: 48
    0
    Today's election has one unpleasant aspect. Before boasting? A car, an expensive diamond watch, a villa. Then they began to boast that they had become deputies. And at this convocation, conversations went like this: “And my manager became a deputy!” - “And I have three managers who became deputies!»

    You can throw pictures ... but it seems to me that this disease came from the West .. there at least change the president .. the course will be the same ... because they rule ala Wall Street and not the senators of the business manager.
  15. Genry
    Genry 20 November 2012 17: 49
    0
    Quote: VadimSt
    the current government, allowed itself more falsifications than their predecessors - the orange.

    I don’t catch you. Tymoshenko-Yushchenko’s gas agreements were surpassed somewhere, but I didn’t notice?

    Quote: VadimSt
    And Western Ukraine, with two hands FOR, and quite active.

    You want to say that zapadentsy squeak of love for Russia. They are you, as an enemy of Ukraine, instantly ....
  16. Ppsh
    Ppsh 20 November 2012 18: 08
    +2
    A country where 10% of the electorate vote for the Nazis should be preparing for intervention by democratic states. Poland will leave Poland, Romania - Romanian, Turkey - nothing (let them go ...), 6 regions that B. Khmelnitsky had had form Ukraine, the rest - we will restore historical justice ...
    1. The cat
      The cat 20 November 2012 18: 21
      -2
      Quote: PPSh
      A country where 10% of the electorate vote for the Nazis should be preparing for intervention by democratic states. Poland will leave Poland, Romania - Romanian, Turkey - nothing (let them go ...), 6 regions that B. Khmelnitsky had had form Ukraine, the rest - we will restore historical justice ...

      Another woman Wang ...
      Of course you know better from Russia.
      Yuh to you, not "historical justice".
      1. Ppsh
        Ppsh 20 November 2012 19: 01
        -1
        In 1991, the population of the Ukrainian SSR was almost 52 million. V2011 - 45. Without the famine, war and the Moscow occupation, you lost 15% of the population. Breathe on ...
        1. webdog
          webdog 20 November 2012 19: 27
          +4
          Well, why are you writing this?
          there was still not enough national hostility to arrange here (or do you get paid for it?)
          although we have the same nations. Rusichi we. And Kievan Rus was famous for great things. This later, the princes fought for power and divided ...
          something like that.
        2. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 20 November 2012 19: 33
          -2
          Quote: PPSh
          Without famine, war and the Moscow occupation, you lost 15% of the population. Breathe on ...
          What about the population of Russia? And specifically - RUSSIAN?
  17. WW3
    WW3 20 November 2012 18: 14
    +4
    The choice of Ukraine between the Customs Union and the EU (where no one really expects it winked ) reminds me of a classic play ...

    Truffaldino brilliantly demonstrates the art of serving two masters at the same time. We can say that this is a man trying to survive in difficult conditions. He is trying to overcome the foundations and establish his vision and understanding of the world. Therefore, the play is also about freedom of choice: Truffaldino violates the law of service to one master. He is trying to work to the best of his temperament and strength. With difficulty, but he succeeds. Therefore, he feels himself a winner - complexes and circumstances. Life makes him twist and, thus, making him a true creator of his destiny. Creator of yourself.
    1. WW3
      WW3 20 November 2012 18: 19
      +2
      like this

      sorry I did not find a video where he rushes between the two owners ....
  18. biglow
    biglow 20 November 2012 18: 27
    +5
    Given the state of the economy in Ukraine, the collapse is not long to wait
    1. MG42
      MG42 20 November 2012 18: 53
      +4
      Ukraine borrowed another 1,25 billion dollars.
      Exchange rates reflect everything like litmus paper.

      Ukraine has sold its foreign bonds in the amount of $ 1,25 billion to foreign investors. This was reported to Ukrainian News by a representative of one of the bank managers for placement of securities.
      Ukraine started selling Eurobonds
      The maturity of securities is 10 years, the yield is 7,8% per annum.
      The placement managers were JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Sberbank, VTB Capital.
      Current account deficit will reach $ 13 billion by year end
      As reported, in July 2012, Ukraine sold Eurobonds for $ 2 billion with a yield of 9,25% per annum, and in September 2012 it floated these securities for $ 600 million. During the additional placement, the profitability amounted to 7,46% per annum.

      http://ubr.ua/finances/macroeconomics-ukraine/ukraina-vziala-v-dolg-125-milliard

      a-dollarov-179752
      1. MG42
        MG42 20 November 2012 19: 25
        +4
        Metal prices have fallen and this is a decrease in foreign currency inflows, a negative situation on foreign markets, especially the EU, even the workers pay back, + the price of gas imported, all this reduces the NBU gold reserves, + EURO 2012 and recent parliamentary elections drained the treasury, on the accounts of the state treasury minuscule = DEFAULT is close.
  19. Vladimir 70
    Vladimir 70 20 November 2012 18: 51
    +4
    I will try to speak too. The eastern part is more behind the vehicle with Russia. Western for the European Union, firstly, mentality, and secondly, financially, it is more profitable, I apologize, "to wash the priests of the Poles." Most of the working-age population is working, and their children are brainwashed. My opinion is that at this stage there will be no great benefit from the CU with Russia, I am not talking about an alliance with Europe. The effect can only be in the event of the destruction of the world financial system and creating united state with centralized authority. Even if Ukraine joins the CU with Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan - "trade wars" will not go anywhere. Only because the so-called "elite" and their families, that Ukraine, that Russia has a second citizenship (or a residence permit) and keeps their capital abroad and the main goal is to "mow the dough" here and take it over the hill.
  20. Post War Blues
    Post War Blues 20 November 2012 19: 15
    +1
    Quote: PPSh
    Breathe on ...


    Well, to whom are you addressing this "glorious" wish, is it interesting to know?
    1. max-02215
      max-02215 20 November 2012 20: 13
      +2
      Yes idiots everywhere enough, wish relatives death ....
  21. webdog
    webdog 20 November 2012 19: 19
    +14
    for some reason I really want to see our common country like this.
    and most importantly, that her enemies would also see and feel ...)))
    then they will respect.
    capitalism is certainly good, but something is wrong ...
    1. WW3
      WW3 20 November 2012 19: 34
      +12
      On this map, perhaps the Baltic States are already hopelessly lost, Russia + Belarus and Kazakhstan ... based on this Union, I believe that there will be USSR 2.0
      Dedicated to those born in the USSR ...
      1. webdog
        webdog 20 November 2012 19: 43
        +7
        I believe that we will restore military strength, population, economy, culture.
        I believe that we will calculate and throw out all the liberals who work for money.
        the main thing now is not to stop there.
        let everything be!
    2. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 20 November 2012 20: 08
      +3
      Quote: webdog
      for some reason I really want to see our common country like this

      Only I think it should be written - RUSSIA.
    3. bart74
      bart74 21 November 2012 00: 59
      0
      In capitalism, this is not so. The main principle is rich at the expense of those who work for you!
  22. Post War Blues
    Post War Blues 20 November 2012 19: 26
    +2
    Quote: webdog
    for some reason I really want to see our common country like this.

    Your words, yes to God’s ears!
    1. webdog
      webdog 20 November 2012 19: 31
      +14
      we had 50% of Ukrainians in our service.
      so I’ll tell you, no matter what they say, but they know how to fight ...
      1. webdog
        webdog 20 November 2012 19: 50
        +10
        that's how the people of Ukraine want to join NATO)))
        1. MG42
          MG42 20 November 2012 21: 03
          +4
          Hello NATO - here's a grenade smile
          The issue of joining NATO is simply not on the agenda right now. And it can’t stand when the Black Sea Fleet base is in the Crimea. The Black Sea Fleet was extended until 2042.
          Crimeans disrupt NATO exercises
        2. Ascetic
          Ascetic 21 November 2012 00: 26
          +1
          webdog,

          Nice poster. + I wonder where it is?
  23. gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz 20 November 2012 20: 00
    +2
    Ukraine pretends to strive for the EU. And the EU pretends to consider Ukraine as a candidate for the EU. Such a game ... But what to do? How else? Here they suggest to unite with Russia. I am for!!! With all my heart!!! But ... Does Russia want this? And specifically Putin? The Russian people understandably want it, even though the "independent" and "patriotic" media are hampering their brains. After all, who among the Russians thought that the orange Maidan is a direct consequence of the "megaproject" of Tuzla? After all, there would not have been a scandal with Tuzla - nothing would have happened !!! No. It's easier to think - Ukraine has betrayed and so forth nonsense. Second: after the election of Yanukovych, after all, he immediately removed a lot of questions about our relations. Did a lot even "in advance" And? One way friendship? Why is fraternal Russia decreasing the price of Germany, Poland, Turkey, which buy gas cheaper than us? To drive Ukraine into a hole? So what kind of association are we talking about? Russia pushes Ukraine away; Putin only wants to take over (Belarus). Therefore, the situation is being escalated through the media. Indeed, in Russia there are no less problems, and maybe more. So why chew on this topic all the time?
    1. webdog
      webdog 20 November 2012 20: 06
      +2
      Do not forget that more than one Putin rules the country. there is still a bunch of aligarchs and freaks seated in power, lured from the American hand back in the 90s.
      they have a different task. they don’t need our association and in order to deliver gas and oil to Ukraine in deshom. they need the opposite.
      we’ll take all these liberals forward with their feet, then everything will be fine!))
      and gas and oil and the army is one!
      honestly, it still doesn’t reach me that Ukraine is a different country ...
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 20 November 2012 20: 21
        +1
        We, brother, are also not a monarchy ...
    2. bart74
      bart74 21 November 2012 01: 15
      0
      So maybe it’s right - to drive into a hole and buy, most importantly, that there is enough money. There are no other options. Better than we are with the Chinese. In Asia, this rolls. And take offense at this is not worth it. Market and hvapitalizm, their mother into the soul!
  24. SAVA555.IVANOV
    SAVA555.IVANOV 20 November 2012 20: 04
    +5
    It is necessary to unite as quickly as possible !!!! It is high time to disperse the dancing "guys" of Lezginka from the sacred streets of Moscow, so as not to interfere with the Slavs' life, but I am not talking about the economy at all, how many broken production "ties" cannot be restored. On the other hand, Russians have recently become so "poisonous."
    1. webdog
      webdog 20 November 2012 20: 16
      +4
      Do you judge the toxicity of Russians on the Internet and forums? in vain.
      Russians are not poisonous. you confuse them with the paid abomination, which actively earns its silver coins.
      1. SAVA555.IVANOV
        SAVA555.IVANOV 20 November 2012 20: 35
        0
        I will gladly accept the answer - a hint))))
    2. MG42
      MG42 20 November 2012 20: 49
      +3
      Quote: SAVA555.IVANOV
      On the other hand, Russians have recently become so “poisonous”.

      And because Ukraine is like in that song "I'm sitting on ..... and wondering why I'm not a falcon, why am I not flying?"
      How much can you think where to enter? Sitting on 2 chairs is simply uncomfortable smile . It's time to decide!
  25. wax
    wax 20 November 2012 20: 11
    +4
    While the Ukrainian elite can offer the EU and NATO a product with the slogan "to annoy Russia more", and this product will be in demand - the elite will have dividends and the desire to have tobacco and trenches apart.
  26. Setrac
    Setrac 20 November 2012 20: 32
    -5
    The most interesting thing is that no one is forcing Ukraine to politically unite with Russia, but Ukraine (the elite) wants to give its freedom to the west, because it has got it for nothing. As for Tuzla, they gave away the island to Romania and not a single liberal bastard made a sound, and in this connection there is no movement towards Russia.
    1. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 20 November 2012 20: 42
      -1
      Quote: Setrac
      As for Tuzla - they gave away the island to Romania and not a single liberal bastard made a sound
      Which islands? More specifically, without saliva.
      1. webdog
        webdog 20 November 2012 21: 20
        0
        at the expense of Tuzla: either this is nonsense, or an intentional lie in order to pull someone out on emotions.
        Romania, the island (spit) NEVER belonged. NEVER.
        therefore, Setrac, explain (if you are not a Troll), where does such crazy information come from? maybe you smoke something wrong?))))
        if you don’t answer, then you are a drone.))
        1. MG42
          MG42 20 November 2012 23: 20
          +2
          Quote: Setrac
          As for Tuzla, they gave away the island to Romania and not a single liberal bastard made a sound, and in this connection there is no movement towards Russia.

          Ukraine has not given anything to Romania - they have sued the shelf near Snake Island in an international court. And Tuzla has something to do with it - it's a scythe in the other direction completely. There "swings" were who would collect tribute for the passage of ships.
          1. webdog
            webdog 21 November 2012 00: 20
            0
            all clear.
            Setrac - Troll and do not care about what and what to give, for each koment they pay money))
          2. Setrac
            Setrac 14 December 2012 22: 36
            0
            So as not to be accused of trolling, I’ll answer, albeit belatedly - there was a comment about Tuzla and how this question alienates Russia and Ukraine, and the island is of course Zmeinny, and it is located in a completely different place. but for some reason this issue does not alienate Ukraine from NATO.
    2. Ascetic
      Ascetic 21 November 2012 00: 35
      +4
      Quote: Setrac
      As for Tuzla - they gave back the island to Romania


      At the negotiations on delimitation of the sea border, Vladimir Putin and Viktor Yanukovych tentatively agreed that Tuzla would depart to Ukraine, and Russia, in turn, would retain the “key right” regarding the passage of vessels through the Kerch Strait, reports IAS Eurasianews (Moldova) with reference to Russian media .

      My webpage

      Well, where does Romania come from? Here it is, Mikhalych ..
  27. sxn278619
    sxn278619 20 November 2012 20: 33
    -5
    Of course, Ukraine needs to join the European Union. There are new (for Ukraine) technologies. And what will the Customs Union give to an ordinary resident. Nothing. Everything will go to the oligarchs (cheap gas and oil for their enterprises). And this is already harmful for the residents of the Customs Union.
    1. uizik
      uizik 20 November 2012 21: 16
      +6
      Simple Ukrainian people will receive new sorting cleaning technologies in the EU!
      In the TS, I will be with Slovenes, and not with asexual persons, and with another cheater who deny the foundations of morality and being. A tablecloth is for lovers of shit in a beautiful wrapper.
  28. Egoza
    Egoza 20 November 2012 20: 48
    +3
    Quote: White
    Make it clear to me about the anti-Russian policy; apart from Yushchenko’s attempts with the Holodomor, I don’t see anything. Just do not talk about the language we have Russian blossoms and smells.


    Today, the Verkhovna Rada has failed the law that parents have the right to choose the language of instruction in kindergartens and schools. opposition celebrates victory! "We have defended teaching in kindergartens in the Ukrainian language." Is this not an attack on the Russian language! Say "Russian blooms and smells". So it is spoken correctly by those who lived and studied in the USSR, then it is already surzhik. And how the psyche of children is crippled when a child who was sent to a kindergarten is addressed in a foreign language. Psychologists SCREAM about it! But it doesn't matter to everyone! Hence, not only illiteracy, but also low knowledge in all subjects. Children do not learn them! They are only busy with translation in their heads. And this is done only so that the Ukrainian-speaking population, and this is mainly the memory of Ukraine, could occupy all government posts, thanks to its language.
    1. MG42
      MG42 20 November 2012 23: 13
      +3
      Quote: Egoza
      Today in BP failed the law that parents have the right to choose the language of instruction in kindergartens and schools

      Language in kindergartens is the "little things in life". Yanukovych did not make Russian the second state language. Just "regional" as well as Romanian, Tatar, etc.
      This was the last session of the old parliament, now there will be "Freedom" in the new one. Language problems (EAST-WEST) - will worsen.
  29. TRON
    TRON 20 November 2012 21: 47
    0
    Egoza, This is one and the same language. So the kids won't get hurt.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 21 November 2012 00: 19
      +2
      If it’s the same, then why are they so fiercely resisting the opening of Russian kindergartens and schools? Why do they say that if this is allowed, then the Ukrainian language will disappear? And, unfortunately, I know from experience, and not just personal, that there is stress. And this is confirmed by practice.
      1. TRON
        TRON 21 November 2012 20: 47
        0
        From your words it follows that there are two separate nations with their own languages. Are you a Bandera?
  30. Setrac
    Setrac 20 November 2012 22: 17
    -2
    Snake Island, he seems to have remained behind Ukraine, but the shelf was recognized Romanian, about how.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 21 November 2012 00: 45
      +2
      Quote: Setrac
      Snake Island, he seems to have remained behind Ukraine, but the shelf was recognized Romanian, about how


      On September 2, 2008, the United Nations International Court of Justice in The Hague began a substantive process. The court session ended on September 19, on February 3, 2009, the International Court of Justice ruled in the case of delimitation of borders. The court did not agree with the requirements of either party and independently determined the border of the exclusive economic zones of Ukraine and Romania. The new line takes into account the small area around the Snake island with a size of 12 nautical miles, and then passes between the coast of Romania with a length of 248 kilometers and the Ukrainian coast with a length of 705 kilometers. The court recognized Snake Island as an island, but indicated that it should not be taken into account in favor of Ukraine when determining its exclusive economic zone and dividing the continental shelf

      Details here
      1. bart74
        bart74 21 November 2012 02: 40
        0
        Yes, in The Hague they "always" accept everything in our favor
  31. sprut
    sprut 20 November 2012 22: 33
    0
    Ukrainian oligarchs and rulers strongly resist the inevitable entry into the CU ... But this will happen, sooner or later ...
    1. MG42
      MG42 20 November 2012 23: 05
      +2
      Quote: sprut
      But it will happen sooner or later

      You can only get rid of oligarchs by revolutionary means and nationalization of enterprises. Of course, this will not "pass".
  32. georg737577
    georg737577 20 November 2012 23: 35
    +3
    The problem of Ukraine is that it still does not really know what to do with the "independent" that has fallen from the sky (as a result of the collapse of the USSR). That is, there was NO struggle for independence on the part of the entire people of Ukraine, the secession took place under the economic "slogans" spread by the corrupt "elite", which felt that the moment had come to rob the country under the guise of a "parade of sovereignties". The country was successfully robbed, then what? Europe Ukraine and in a nightmare will not see the EU. And I fully understand them ... But with Russia, our ruling bastards are also not on their way; Why share stolen goods? So instead of food they feed the people with a fairy tale about "Good European Union, where they are waiting for us ...", then they scare Russia - "Babai will come and eat" ... In fact, they do not need either one or the other, but that the people if it wakes up - it's better, there are fewer problems with the sale of land ... Ukraine can be saved only by a civil war for the people to gain true independence from their own rulers - parasites ... But, alas - "the people are silent" ...
    1. arkady149
      arkady149 21 November 2012 00: 52
      +1
      Quote: georg737577
      The problem of Ukraine is that it still does not really know what to do with the "independent" that has fallen from the sky (as a result of the collapse of the USSR).

      Ukrainian guy married a Russian girl. Before the wedding night, his father gives him instructions: - First, take her in her arms and bring her to the bed. Show me how strong Ukraine is. Then take off your shirt - show how beautiful Ukraine is. And the voice of my grandfather is heard from the next room: - And then start jerking off - show how independent Ukraine is!
    2. MG42
      MG42 21 November 2012 00: 53
      +3
      Quote: georg737577
      The problem of Ukraine is that it still does not really know what to do with the "independent" that has fallen from the sky (as a result of the collapse of the USSR)

      Nezalezhnost - this is when you do not lie down crying Ukraine is one big problem, first of all, for its citizens.
    3. bart74
      bart74 21 November 2012 02: 43
      0
      I agree. But it would be better to avoid civil war. Just quietly separate from Ukraine two zapadnyansky regions of the "richest" Lviv and whatever it is (I forgot it, I apologize to Galicia) and everything will be fine. There seems to be such a scenario. Everyone would be good!
  33. Dimon simfer
    Dimon simfer 20 November 2012 23: 42
    +2
    Hello readers!
    I read the article and komenty and again the thought revolves in my head that the wrong country was called Ganduras laughing .
    Our politicians in VR are like in a circus: in the arena, the same ones. I especially liked the pre-election race. If at the upcoming elections there were at least some promises and pre-election programs, then in these elections there was a complex anti-publicity and throwing mud at opponents. Of these, the following were "impressed":
    from past in BP:
    1. Batkivshchyna - our great martyr Yu., With an oath from the pre-trial detention center, that she will not surrender not when and will fight against Yakubovich lolForgive Yanukovych and his party.
    2. The great lustrator of power and the future "block post" on the way to the VR tribune, which will knock out any opponent boxer V. Klitschko. senior (personally, I can't wait for his brother, or maybe he himself, will be overwhelmed in the ring).
    3. The Nazis of the Freedom Party - give them free rein, so they will walk May 9 on the Independence Square with Nazi flags in their hands, as well as MP40 and MG42 on their shoulders, despite WWII veterans.
    from non-passers-by to BP:
    the party "Ukraine Forward", and more specifically, it is the football player A. Shevchenko. I personally listened to him and Korolevsaya and concluded that he was no speaker (he cannot connect two words). He spoke from the fact that he was against the spread of alcohol and drugs among young people. Although not so long ago, a couple of years ago, I personally advertised the Obolon beer (apparently the guy did not have enough money, so he decided to earn extra money).
    I liked the webdog photo "Storming the Sapun Mountain" very much. Sevastopol is my favorite city.
    As for the PEDONOVATSEVs, I rummaged on youtube somehow, I found the video really smiled, here is the link:
    [media = http: // http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = RwVk-1YaXns & feature = player_detailpa
    ge]
    And so I am for the unity of the Slavic peoples and I hope that our generation will find a bright future in the unity of our peoples.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 21 November 2012 00: 50
      +5
      Quote: Dimon Simfer
      I read the article and komenty and again the thought revolves in my head that the wrong country was called Ganduras


      In Ukraine, over the course of 20 years, EIGHTY GOVERNMENTAL COMPOSITIONS (not the prime ministers but the full composition) has been replaced. In Honduras, for comparison, the whole is THIRTEEN. The national debt of Ukraine rose to 62bn. Dolary. Any government will again have to look for loans to fulfill social obligations, especially since Ukraine does not have a printing press, unlike the United States
      So it’s just right to call Ukraine Honduras smile
      1. WW3
        WW3 21 November 2012 03: 55
        +4
        So it’s just right to call Ukraine Honduras

        Yes, soon it will be possible to say with sadness ... the wrong country was called Ukraine belay
  34. bart74
    bart74 21 November 2012 02: 47
    +1
    For the unity of our fraternal peoples! Already there is even a referendum on this topic, people are doing things, collecting signatures! So join in! drinks
  35. ikrut
    ikrut 21 November 2012 02: 48
    +2
    Here is the Nobel laureate wrote. IMHO, it’s better hard to say:


    "Dear Karl XII, battle at Poltava,

    Thank God, lost. As said burr,

    "time will show Kuzkin's mother", ruins,

    bones of posthumous joy with a taste of Ukraine.

    That is not green-quit, spent by isotope, -

    the black-and-white flying over Konotop,

    tailored from the canvas, Canada has in store.

    It’s for nothing that without a cross, but you don’t need to see the shit.

    Goy you, a rushnyk, karbovanets, seeds in full shit!

    It’s not for us, ap tsam, to blame them for treason.

    Sami under the images of seventy years in Ryazan

    with drenched eyes lived as under Tarzana.

    Let’s tell them, the loud mother paused pause strictly:

    good riddance to you, and a rushnyk road!

    Come from us in zhupan, without saying - in a uniform,

    at the address in three letters, in all four

    side let now in the hut in chorus of a hans

    with lyakhami put you on four bones, heathens.

    How to get into the loop - so together, choosing the path in more often,

    and to bite chicken from borsch alone is sweeter.

    Farewell, lived together - that's enough!

    Spit, perhaps, in Dnipro, maybe he will roll back,

    disdaining proudly us, as fast, jam-packed

    leather corners and age-old resentment.

    Do not remember dashingly. Your bread sky

    us, we choke on cake and kolob, not requiring.

    There is nothing to spoil the blood, to tear clothes on the chest.

    Ended, to know, love, since there was a midway.

    What to poke around in vain in ragged roots with a verb?

    You have given birth to earth, soil, chernozem with a podzol.

    Fully swing right, sew us one thing, another.

    This land does not give you, kavuns, peace.

    Oh yes Levada-steppe, stealing, a chestnut, a dumpling!

    Go ahead, lose more - more people than money.

    Somehow interrupt. And as for the tears from the eye -

    there is no decree on her, wait until another time.

    With God, eagles, Cossacks, hetmans, warriors!

    Only when you come and die, bulls,

    you will wheeze, scratching the edge of the mattress,

    lines from Alexander, not Taras' nonsense. "(c)
    1. ded_73
      ded_73 21 November 2012 11: 26
      0
      "Excellent" poetry, but not brilliant. Especially good advice .... From New York.
  36. taseka
    taseka 21 November 2012 06: 47
    0
    The authorities in Ukraine as political prostitutes - when it comes to Russian gas, they tie up eternal friendships without ties, and as soon as they got it at a reduced price, Geyrope (I also liked it!) In the mouth of sugar cabins !!!
  37. Dimon simfer
    Dimon simfer 24 November 2012 10: 54
    0
    The 95th quarter is about our power, in my opinion to the point. Guys handsome men cheer up laughing