Military Review

New sides of the history of famine in Kazakhstan

47
New sides of the history of famine in Kazakhstan
Kazakh nomads



The famine in Kazakhstan in 1932–1933 is not only a topic historical, but also ideological, and also, if you like, military-political. The Holodomor theory, which has been rapidly developing in Ukraine since perestroika and especially actively during the years of independence, has made a significant contribution to the transformation of Ukraine into a state hostile to us.

In Kazakhstan, too, since perestroika times, a theory that is completely similar in meaning has been developing, which I often call “kazholodomor” for a short designation. Its essence is that the Bolsheviks set out to destroy the nomadic Kazakhs, for which they forced them to switch to settled life, took away all the cattle, which caused mass starvation. This concept was developed at the direction of the former President of Kazakhstan, Nursultan Nazarbayev, and it has the support of the current President of Kazakhstan, Kassym-Jomart Tokayev.

In May 2021, a collection of documents was published in Kazakhstan: “Asharshylyk. Hunger. Documentary chronicle. 1928-1934". The publication was prepared on behalf of Tokayev, and its presentation took place on May 28, 2021 in the Senate of the Parliament of Kazakhstan, in the presence of Senate Chairman Maulen Ashimbaev, who even cut the blue ribbon binding the volumes. Official level, in a word.


Monument to the victims of famine in Almaty. In the background, people hold portraits of Alashorda residents.

This collection became an interesting moment in the debate around the “Kazholodomor”.

Firstly, it came out as a kind of response to my book “The Kazakh genocide that never happened”, which was published at the very beginning of 2021. In it, I defeated the theory of "Kazholodomor" in all key points, and documented and calculations. The most important point was that I managed to show that the only party interested in mortal hunger was the baystvo - large owners of cattle, land, pastures, as well as ordinary Kazakhs, who worked for them almost like slaves, for food, from whom shortly before collectivization, their herds were confiscated.

Baystvo turned out to be a cunning, resourceful and cruel opponent of Soviet power. With the help of their numerous agents in the grassroots bodies of Soviet power and party organizations, they organized the economic ruin of many areas, mass migrations, which became the cause of all disasters and hunger, from which people reached cannibalism and entire villages died out. The bai were clearly trying to starve out the "Red Kazakhs", who rejected their age-old domination for the sake of collective farms and state farms. The bastard paid for it; apparently, in 1933-1934 it was mostly destroyed by the Chekists.

The book caused something like hysteria, Kazakh nationalists even tried to ban its distribution in Kazakhstan, though without much success.

Secondly, the answer in the form of a collection of documents turned out to be weak, and in fact this publication was no longer used and mentioned in the press immediately after the presentation. Moreover, even getting it for study was not so easy.

It took some sort of reconnaissance operation to get this collection. Therefore, it is being analyzed now, two years after its release.

Thirdly, the collection itself, upon closer examination, turned out to be a work of very low quality.

On the one hand, the very principle of its compilation is definitely unscientific - a biased selection of documents, with an emphasis on grain procurements, migrations, famine and similar phenomena. The simultaneous construction of a wide network of collective farms, large state farms, machine and tractor stations, and the mechanization of Kazakh agriculture are very rarely mentioned in this collection. The picture of events is sharply distorted.

On the other hand, the compilers of the collection did their job carelessly. The publication was presented as a publication of rare and previously inaccessible documents from Kazakhstani archives, while in reality, for example, the third volume of the collection turned out to be about half composed of documents already published earlier in collections published in Russia.

But still, under all these circumstances, some interesting documents were published there. They bring some new features to the study of famine in Kazakhstan.

The Minority of the Starving and the Mosaic Character of the Hunger


Although the compilers of the collection did not burn with the desire to publish documents characterizing the general state of affairs in Kazakhstan, nevertheless, one such document was nevertheless made public.

This is a memorandum of the chairman of the CEC of the KASSR, Uzakbay Kulumbetov, in February 1933, sent to the Council of People's Commissars of the RSFSR (until 1936, the Kazak ASSR was part of the RSFSR). It characterized the situation of nomads, that is, households who left their places of residence due to food difficulties, but also provided information on the number of starving people. Kulumbetov determined the number of nomads at 100 households (about 300 people), and besides this, the same number were starving locally and in need of urgent help (Vol. III, p. 431). In another place of the same note, the number of migrants was determined at 131,1 thousand households, and measures for the employment of migrants covered 169,8 thousand households or 509,4 thousand people. At the beginning of 1933, measures for food aid covered 169,6 thousand farms or 488,1 thousand people.


One of the most common photographs of those times, just nomads

Apparently, in order to assess the general situation in Kazakhstan, these figures need to be added up, since the nomads and the starving in the document are getting divorced; For example:

“All these nomads and a significant part of the starving locals have almost no livestock” (p. 431).

Thus, due to food shortages, 509 thousand people migrated and another 488 thousand people went hungry on the ground, a total of 997 thousand people or 339,4 thousand households. About 1 million round number.

Horror, horror! But don't rush to wring your hands after the "Kazakh famines". In 1930, there were 1 thousand households in Kazakhstan, and the population in Kazakhstan in 351 was 1932 million people, including 5,8 million Kazakhs. From a comparison of these figures, it follows that the famine affected about 3,7% of the population of the KASSR. This is decent, but not at all the picture that the “Kazakh famine workers” are trying to paint for us, that as if famine was everywhere.

According to my impressions from my own work with documents, the economic crisis and famine were of an extremely uneven, mosaic nature. Of the 122 districts of the KASSR, there were areas that were badly damaged, devastated, as they wrote in the documents; there were areas affected by famine, and there were areas that were almost not affected. Even within the same district, the situation could differ sharply from collective farm to collective farm. Therefore, someone was dying of hunger, while the majority of the population of Kazakhstan did not experience serious difficulties with food. And in general, the calculations of the grain-forage balance, which I made in my book, showed that Kazakhstan was always with bread.

A scientific study of the history of famine and migrations in Kazakhstan requires a continuous enumeration of the surviving documents and the compilation of a kind of famine map. That is, you need to take an administrative map of that time, preferably with the designation of individual villages and settlements, and note exactly where cases of famine were recorded, where the migration came from and where exactly the migrants ended up. This is a rather laborious work, but I believe that it is absolutely necessary if we are to understand the causes of this unique economic crisis.

Mechanics of Hunger


Another interesting side of some of the published documents is that the names of those directly responsible for the famine began to emerge.

For example, in the Turgai district of the Aktobe region. It was a devastated area, with mass deaths from starvation. At the end of 1932, the head of the secret political department of the OGPU, G. A. Molchanov, sent a telegram to the secretary of the Kazkraykom of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks for supplies, S. T. Golyudov, about the situation in Turgay (vol. III, p. 48). In the region, 4 people died of starvation as a result of massive excesses during collectivization: all the cattle in the village were collected, some were sent for harvesting, and the rest was declared socialized. False activists in almost all auls appropriated food aid, seed grain, money, livestock. Who was to blame? Bureau secretary of the district committee of the party Burabaev, chairman of the district executive committee Sugurov and head of the district department of justice Suleimenov, whom it was decided to remove from work, expel from the party and put on trial.

Now some Kazakh nationalists are trying to give the famine a national flavor, as if the Russian Bolsheviks were starving the Kazakhs. But the document is the opposite.

The Kazakhs were starved by the Kazakhs, and the Russian Chekists intervened, albeit too late. Then the difference between Kazakhs and Russians was much stronger than now. But, as we can see, the Russian Chekists were not indifferent to the fact that the Kazakhs were dying of hunger.

By the way, in Turgay there was also a mosaic character of famine. On September 1, 1932, Nishanbayev, authorized by the Kazkraikom of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, wrote to the Kazkraikom and the Council of People's Commissars of the KASSR that there were 5 households in the region, with 298 people. Food resources average 21 kg and head of livestock per person. At the same time, six auls can survive the winter with their resources, five auls are already starving, and six more auls are facing the threat of starvation. Under the threat of death, 56 people who eat gophers and sold all their property literally walk around naked (vol. III, p. 8).

How could this happen? I have always been interested in the mechanics of the economic crisis.

In the documents, here and there, traces of large-scale and sophisticated work to undermine the collective farms slip through. For example, livestock procurement was assigned in excess of its availability. Ayaguz district: there were 46 thousand heads, the plan for harvesting - 65 thousand heads. Aral region: there were 4 heads, harvesting - 500 thousand heads. Chingistavsky district: there were 30 thousand heads, a plan for procurement of 8 thousand heads, and so on (vol. III, p. 40).

The same is true for bakeries. For example, the district executive committee of the Kzyl-Tuu district of the Karagadin region reported that 9 hectares were sown, while in reality no more than a quarter of this area was sown. Or, according to the secret political department of the OGPU, only 469 centners of grain were collected on the Sary-Kul collective farm in the Aryk district, and the delivery plan was 350 centners, since the authorized representative of the district executive committee, the chairman of the collective farm and the chairman of the village council appropriated 800 poods of seeds, but reported on fulfillment of the sowing plan (vol. III, p. 80).

The same secret political department of the OGPU reported in July 1932 that the bai elite of the strong Kazakh clans, through their agents, was seizing the lower and regional Soviet apparatus, the boards of collective farms and carrying out the ruin of weak and hostile clans. However, such a struggle was waged not only against hostile clans.

The OGPU noted the formation of bai unions of various kinds against Soviet and party activists from the poor (vol. III, p. 286). For example, at st. Aynak (this is already the West Siberian Territory) in February 1932, the corpse of a Kazakh who died from exhaustion was picked up. There were documents on the corpse - a membership card of the CPSU (b) in the name of Smagul Suleimenov (vol. III, p. 110).

So, the economic destruction, as can be judged, was carried out as follows.

Firstly, the Bai agents in the regional bodies made highly inflated reports on the presence of livestock and crops. Based on these data, procurement plans were drawn up that exceeded the capabilities of the regions.

Secondly, these plans were carried out in the most zealous manner, up to the taking of the last cattle and grain, often by threats, beatings, arrests, and torture. This was supplemented by the theft and concealment of grain in collective farms; that is, the collective farm harvest was stolen, and for delivery to the grain procurement, all the grain was taken away from the collective farmers.

Thirdly, when the population was left without a livelihood, Bai agents, including those with party cards, organized migrations. At the same time, part of the population rushed on the spot to certain death from starvation. People also fled from hunger themselves; many died along the way.

Bay agents also used corpses for agitation. For example, when people dying of hunger went from the Zhanaarkinsky district of the Karaganda region to neighboring areas (the famine was very strong; 3 people died in the area, unburied bodies lay, in some villages they ate the corpses of those who died of smallpox) and died on the road, in November and December In 612, one could see the following picture: corpses were stuck in the snow with their arms outstretched, in the pose of a speaker, and in their hand was a note: “The result of collectivization” (vol. III, p. 1932). There is nothing to even comment on.

Finally, fourthly, the systematic plunder of food aid. In the Chingistav region, the OGPU uncovered a group of beys, participants in the uprising in 1931, who plundered food aid and robbed collective farms. It included: the chairman of the Sarzhal village council Duisembaev, Kupozhanov, Abylgazin and Kozylganov. They had connections with the secretary of the district committee Nurmagambetov, the chairman of the control commission Smakov, the people's judge Isabekov and the prosecutor Medeubaev. Thanks to their intervention, most of the gang remained at large (vol. III, p. 497).

The materials of the OGPU show that the theft of food aid was of a large-scale nature. As of July 1932, 391,3 thousand poods of food aid were released to Kazakhstan, while 86 thousand poods (21%) were plundered. In the already mentioned Zhanaarka region, where more than a thousand people died of starvation and cannibalism from May 1931 to January 1932, a group of senior officials headed by the chairman of the district executive committee Anbrakhmanov stole more than 10 thousand pounds of food aid. The OGPU intervened in this, opened a case and arrested 78 leading workers of the district and pseudo-activists (vol. III, p. 267).

I wonder who Anbrakhmanov and his accomplices are considered in Kazakhstan? Innocent victims of political repression?

The situation began to improve only after the OGPU undertook to purge the collective farms, local and district authorities. In just ten days of November 1932, 374 people were arrested in Kazakhstan, including 201 for theft, 101 for sabotage, 29 for hiding grain, 7 for disinformation about the progress of sowing and grain procurement. Also, 111 grassroots and district workers were expelled from the party (vol. III, p. 395).

Purges sometimes led to interesting consequences. In several grain-growing regions, after the cleansing of the collective farms, many collective farms suddenly found bread to fulfill the grain procurement plan.

The conclusion that the famine was organized precisely by the Kazakh bai, I made back in my book, based on a rather scarce documentary material. Rather, it was a guess. But now there are documents that support and prove this conclusion, and in a very clear way. The mechanics of how this was done is clarified. But it is better to do the analysis in its entirety. I think that if you thoroughly go through the archives, collect and systematize the preserved information, then the picture will be very impressive.

Much more dangerous


In conclusion, a little about the political side of the matter.

Kazholodomor and its supporters are not a harmless phenomenon at all. The zealous “Kazakh Holodomorists”, in essence, are the defenders and supporters of the beys, those Kazakhs who ruined and killed other Kazakhs with excruciating hunger. In this sense, they are no different from the same Bandera, who called themselves Ukrainian nationalists, but at the same time they killed mainly Ukrainians. This can be said about Bandera himself, and about his current followers, led by Zelensky, who will soon beat Bandera’s “achievements” in terms of the extermination of Ukrainians, and in terms of the ruin of Ukraine, he has already surpassed him many times over. The current defenders of the bays will no doubt fall for their methods.

But if the Bandera people never really hid their intentions, then the baystvo used a large arsenal of cunning, lies, deceit, trying to hide their real goals until the last moment. Accordingly, in today's Kazakhstan, the construction of a pronounced neo-Bay society is also masked by thick lies.

“Kazholodomor” is also part of this camouflage, and there were so many lies in this topic that it was far from easy to expose it. In this regard, "KazGolodomor" is a much more dangerous political and ideological phenomenon.
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  1. ivan2022
    ivan2022 23 February 2023 05: 32
    +3
    In the minds of all the peoples of the USSR, crimes against Soviet power have long been firmly fixed as crimes of Soviet power itself.

    But the biggest nail in her coffin was unanimously driven in 1991 not by the Kazakhs, but by the former imperial people, the Russians.

    If previous generations, who created the USSR and defended its independence in battle, could rise from the dust today, they would curse ......
    1. Mikhail Drabkin
      Mikhail Drabkin 23 February 2023 06: 11
      +21
      in today's Kazakhstan, the construction of a pronounced neo-Bay society is masked by thick lies.

      —-Thanks to the author for the detailed dissection of the "Kazholodomor" - a significant, dangerous component of Kazakh nationalism and Russophobia encouraged by the elite.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 23 February 2023 06: 42
        +11
        I suppose that among other former republics, someone will compose something similar, since no one likes the truth about the receipt of subsidies by all republics under the USSR at the expense of the RSFSR and the BSSR. Nobody likes this truth, because after the destruction of the USSR, all the republics began to live worse than before, and this must be somehow explained
        in your favor
        1. Basil50
          Basil50 23 February 2023 12: 30
          +11
          There is an OTAR railway station in Kazakhstan. There were quarantine barracks. From the trains they removed everyone in whom they suspected * a peddler of typhus-cholera * and a kidney infection. Today, the former mass graves of typhoid patients are abandoned. I was surprised to learn that those buried there are inscribed in * victims of hunger *.
          About the same way they make lists of victims on the outskirts and other * independent *.
          Surprisingly, in those same years * starvation * died in all European countries without exception, and even, you won’t believe it, in the USA and Canada.
          Were you hungry? Or did they hide the traces of bacteriological warfare?
          For the unbelievers, there was a performance with the great FAINA RANEVSKAYA, who portrayed a trader in typhoid clothes.
          But that episode is described from a real prototype and from a real * case *.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 23 February 2023 14: 48
            +4
            Quote: Vasily50
            .... in those same years * from hunger * they died in all European countries without exception, and even, you won’t believe it, in the USA and Canada.
            Were you hungry? Or so they hid traces of bacteriological warfare ......

            The years of the Great Depression in the United States. I have no doubt that if something like this happened now, they would definitely find Russian trace
            .... graves of typhoid ..... buried there are inscribed in * victims of hunger * .....

            Not surprised. Lists of the "repressed" were also compiled. Those who served under criminal articles, including theft of people's property, were listed during perestroika already as innocent victims
          2. Humpty
            Humpty 23 February 2023 15: 33
            +6
            Quote: Vasily50
            Kazakhstan has a railway station OTAR. There were quarantine barracks. From the trains they removed everyone in whom they suspected * a peddler of typhus-cholera * and a kidney infection. Today, the former mass graves of typhoid patients are abandoned. WITH

            Near me. This is due to the fact that when in Kazakhstan they came up with their own version of the sad events, they did not find places of mass burial of those who died from starvation and jaundice.
            1. Basil50
              Basil50 24 February 2023 02: 55
              +4
              *Hunger* and *jaundice* are still different causes of death.
              Although I met Kazakhs who * jaundice-yellow * called people from Xinjiang. Until now, the Kazakhs remember those raids with horror.
              But the current Kazakhs DO NOT WANT to remember that the RUSSIAN EMPIRE stopped the raids, and completely *forgot* the name of the Empress Empress who allowed the ancestors of the Kazakhs to move to Turkestan.
              1. Humpty
                Humpty 24 February 2023 10: 26
                +3
                Quote: Vasily50
                Hunger * and * jaundice * are still different causes of death.

                What is written by the VKPB cannot be cut down with an axe. Sorry, for ethical reasons, today I will not spread everything on the topic as if in spirit.
                This is still about a real human tragedy, around which there are a lot of speculations and falsifications.
                Once again, I knew my grandmother Alyapa very well, her brother's name was Yusup, he wrote something on the topic, although he also blamed Goloshchekin for problems.
                Thanks to his position, he himself saved quite a few Kazakh refugees from hunger and something else, not from jaundice.
              2. Humpty
                Humpty 24 February 2023 10: 44
                +4
                Quote: Vasily50
                But the current Kazakhs DO NOT WANT to remember that the RUSSIAN EMPIRE stopped the raids,

                Not for the sake of a dispute, but the Chinese have tried more in this.
                By the way, representatives of the modern Kazakh educated jump up to the ceiling in indignation, if we recall the fact that for a long period, Speransky led the transfer of Kazakhs to Islam.
              3. Zymran
                Zymran 25 February 2023 15: 32
                -1
                What the hell are you writing here? What raids?
    2. pin_code
      pin_code 24 February 2023 06: 33
      +3
      The Russians, like other peoples of the USSR, were fooled, and these non-comrades have names and surnames. And this is at least.
  2. mi ah
    mi ah 23 February 2023 05: 56
    +23
    In Kazakhstan, the bai is still in power. Hence the official line.
  3. Nikolay Malyugin
    Nikolay Malyugin 23 February 2023 06: 08
    +5
    There is no way to clear the rubble of the past. Because they are documented in international organizations. It was not capitalism that caused such fragmentation. But submission to the rules of the bourgeois world. There is a Red Yurt program on YouTube. She has exactly the same views as the author. YouTube will leave, and this program will disappear. It has no way to our space. destined to be again. There was the USSR, and nothing shines for him either. It may repeat itself, but in a distorted guise. Even if everything goes well for Russia, all the divided countries will be present in the UN. By signing the Belovezhskaya agreement, we disfigured the near-Russian space.
  4. north 2
    north 2 23 February 2023 06: 57
    +9
    Speaking about the bai in Kazakhstan and in all the former Soviet republics of Central Asia, one should not forget that it was thanks to this bash that the Red Army quickly and with relatively few casualties won during the civil war and Soviet power was established there quickly. But the prospect was not very optimistic, but the Bolsheviks' ingenuity helped out, that you just need to buy and bribe the local bais and they themselves will disband the Basmachi detachments and agree with the advent of Soviet power there. And the Bolsheviks simply and primitively these bais there, who they bribed and who they even bought. But the bai of their relatives and their offspring were immediately identified in the power structures of the Soviet power, and in these republics, few people looked at the class origin. How many former shepherds or camel drivers there became at the head of the Soviet power in the field? Yes, zero integers, zero tenths. And not only because of total illiteracy. It’s just that those places were occupied by relatives of the former bais .. By the way, similar, only later, happened in Ukraine under Khrushchev. Only in Ukraine did Khrushchev release Bandera from the camps to push their relatives and heirs into the power structures.
    So for the famine in Kazakhstan, let the Kazakhs ask their own ...
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 23 February 2023 07: 09
    +6
    In Ukraine, it began with the promotion of the Holodomor theme, under Yushchenko, ended with the Poroshenko regime. Probably Kazakhstan is waiting for the same.
  6. Tim666
    Tim666 23 February 2023 07: 11
    0
    Is the argumentation in the article so-so, pulling an owl on a globe, let's say that part of the leadership is enemies and Bai agents, and the rest did not notice the massive famine? Or are the entire local leadership enemies and Japanese spies? Where were the valiant Chekists when food aid was plundered? Couldn’t the troops be used for order? The conclusion suggests itself that ordinary opportunists, turbopatriots verbally decided to fulfill and overfulfill the plan launched from the center, the center was only for it, and when the fur-bearing animal arrived, of course they found enemies and agents. Attention to the question, who started this did not assume that the cattle would be cut and the grain would be poked, but not everyone had to be driven to collective farms at the same time. The same thing happened in Ukraine (of course, there was no targeted Holodomor, but they staged a famine
    terrible) and in other areas, albeit to a lesser extent, and the reason was ill-conceived collectivization, when everyone and hard workers and loafers were forcibly driven to the collective farm, dispossessed, did not take into account local characteristics, as a result, in the first years of forced collectivization, grain became less than it was when the peasants just paid a hefty tax. You can read Rasul Gamzatov's book Farewell to Gulsary, where it is written about such fulfillers of the plan. The same Virgin Soil Upturned by Sholokhov also provides a lot of information, if analyzed, albeit a pro-Soviet book.
    1. Humpty
      Humpty 23 February 2023 17: 21
      +3
      Quote from Tim666
      You can read Rasul Gamzatov's book Goodbye Gulsary, there about such performers

      Rather, not a book, but a story, rather Philip Kirkorov than Gamzatov. Dear connoisseur.
      About how the babai said goodbye to meat.
      I read the author of this story, 1,5-2 kilograms. I liked the story more about how the boy dreamed of becoming a galman and what came of it. A kind of reference to Turgenev and Kafka at the same time.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 23 February 2023 22: 20
        +2
        Quote: Humpty
        ...... Rather, not a book, but a story, rather Philip Kirkorov than Gamzatov. .....

        recourse recourse like a much-disgusting- serial movie sad sad
        chulpan rounds crying eyes

        Or quite the opposite. Modern senile libel with perversions!
        Zulya overwrites fool eyes crying
        1. Humpty
          Humpty 24 February 2023 03: 52
          +1
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Or quite the opposite. Modern senile libel with perversions!

          I didn't understand you at all. Can be once again and more clearly.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 24 February 2023 08: 54
            +2
            Quote: Humpty
            ..... I didn't understand you at all. Can be once again and more clearly.

            Guzel Yakhina --- Zuleikha opens her eyes. I read a little. and watched a little for educational purposes. Vile anti-Soviet and anti-Russian. There was a good analysis of Goblin and Zhukov about this. Literally line by line about all the lies that are out there ..... I don’t know if it’s possible to find where now after all those Goblin’s programs were deleted ..... Perhaps these books and films served as an example for Tokaev! Who knows, maybe he wrote off them? hiChulpan Khamatova in the title role. And I wonder if Chulpan ran away and barks from behind a hillock, then maybe the film (sheer waste) will never be shown again? HA HA HA
            1. Humpty
              Humpty 24 February 2023 10: 03
              +1
              Quote: Reptiloid
              There was a good analysis of Goblin and Zhukov about this. Literally line by line about all the lies that

              Thank you.
              We have programs with the Goblin in free viewing. The author of the story is a Soviet writer who, as best they could, was moved to
              great. And even met foreigners who read.
              The logic in the works is at the level of the chicken Ryaba, obsessive sophistication around insoluble intellectual problems, in the spirit of why a brick is square, and the circles on the water from it are round. Or - no matter how much you feed the wolf, at the donkey ...
              The Soviet Union ended and either the talent dried up, or the editors became too mercantile, this is not clear.
              After the union, he continued to write and write, but his later works were no longer brought to light.
              And during the period of his literary maturity, he was nevertheless noted for the fact that his character, a mankurt, has firmly entered the modern pop. culture. The word is not yet forbidden, but if anything, be careful with it. It is roughly translatable. If you are interested, only in a personal, what exactly means.
              Have a nice day!
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 24 February 2023 11: 06
                +4
                ..... The Soviet Union ended ......

                If we recall the post-revolutionary time, then this time is characterized by the creativity of a variety of styles! How could this be??? As modern liberalism writes, the Soviets are to blame for the famine, then 500 million were killed in the gulags. It would seem --- it is impossible to create! And how many artists appeared! Including RUSSIAN AVANT-GARDE!!!!!!!!! Now recognized by all. Poets, writers, architecture --- VANGUARD what construction! There was a shortage of building materials after the Civil War. There were no specialists, just not enough workers. And yet they built, built, built ... Factories, factories, hostels for workers and students, clinics, schools, Palaces of Culture, hospitals, kindergartens, blood transfusion, the Moscow Metro, observatories at schools, Palaces and Houses of pioneers and schoolchildren , pioneer camps ..............
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 24 February 2023 11: 29
                  +2
                  I will continue
                  ..... remember the post-revolutionary time .....

                  An explosion of creative ideas. Both in art and in various studies. Construction, exploration of the expanses of the Motherland.....
                  What am I for? Liberals in the 80s began to complain that they were not allowed to create. "And what, I wonder, did they do in 30 years of capitacism? Especially those who complained the most about terror. They received a lot of money. Absolutely nothing. It is especially disgusting that museums tried to spoil and theaters by this very
                  1. Eule
                    Eule 27 February 2023 12: 42
                    +1
                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    An explosion of creative ideas. Both in art and in various studies. Construction, development of open spaces

                    Because priests were beaten, churches were blown up and free technical education was organized. But now it's the other way around, and the results are different.
    2. runway-1
      runway-1 23 February 2023 17: 27
      -1
      The conclusion suggests itself that the usual opportunists, turbopatriots verbally decided to fulfill and overfulfill the plan launched from the center, the center was only for it, and when the fur-bearing animal arrived, of course they found enemies and agents. Attention to the question, who started this did not imagine that the cattle would be cut and the grain would be poked, but not everyone had to be driven to collective farms at the same time. The same thing happened in Ukraine (of course, there was no targeted Holodomor, but they staged a famine
      terrible) and in other areas, albeit to a lesser extent, and the reason was ill-conceived collectivization, when everyone and hard workers and loafers were forcibly driven to the collective farm, dispossessed kulaks were carried out, local characteristics were not taken into account, as a result, in the first years of forced collectivization, grain became less than it was when the peasants just paid a hefty tax
      This is exactly what the eyewitnesses said...
  7. Tim666
    Tim666 23 February 2023 07: 19
    +2
    Quote: ivan2022
    In the minds of all the peoples of the USSR, crimes against Soviet power have long been firmly fixed as crimes of Soviet power itself.

    But the biggest nail in her coffin was unanimously driven in 1991 not by the Kazakhs, but by the former imperial people, the Russians.

    If previous generations, who created the USSR and defended its independence in battle, could rise from the dust today, they would curse ......

    Nobody cares about intentions, what matters is the result. If collectivization is conceived, it must be organized so that there is no famine, otherwise famine is a crime of power, this is exactly the same as the foreman is responsible for the schools of workers, their commander is responsible for the schools of soldiers, etc. And they wanted the best, but they didn’t take into account local features ... Well, let’s demolish your house, for example, Heating networks and say, well, it happens, but they straightened the heating main and, in general, the designer screwed up - he’s a Bay’s agent, we’ll plant him, but you excuse me and goodbye.
  8. Fabrizio
    Fabrizio 23 February 2023 10: 01
    +5
    It would seem that instead of “saddle” the problem, in Russia, for some reason, they only begin to help more strongly. There was a famine (on the one hand, I have Italian communists who came to the Soviet Union to their misfortune in the 30s, the other from Ukraine) and my grandmother from Ukraine told how collectivization took place, about the same as in Sholokhov’s letter to Stalin and in Russia instead to admit (when all this began to unwind in Ukraine) that despite the beautiful idea on paper, the implementation was terrible, criminal, with excesses both on the ground and with consent in the Center, and then Ukrainian propaganda would have fewer trump cards.
  9. Fitter65
    Fitter65 23 February 2023 11: 50
    +10
    Bai agents, including those with membership cards,
    As the great Drunkard, EBN, said, I joined the CPSU in order to destroy it from the inside ... And if this one could make its way to the top after so many years of existence of the Soviet government, why is it surprising that Bai proteges were doing in Kazakhstan, and others like them on the territory of the USSR, after 10-15 years of the formation of this power ... Many people remember - “I didn’t send you there” ... as soon as an official of any level begins to bear criminal punishment for his inaction, only then can we move forward.
  10. Tim666
    Tim666 23 February 2023 13: 12
    0
    Quote: Fitter65
    Bai agents, including those with membership cards,
    As the great Drunkard, EBN, said, I joined the CPSU in order to destroy it from the inside ... And if this one could make its way to the top after so many years of existence of the Soviet government, why is it surprising that Bai proteges were doing in Kazakhstan, and others like them on the territory of the USSR, after 10-15 years of the formation of this power ... Many people remember - “I didn’t send you there” ... as soon as an official of any level begins to bear criminal punishment for his inaction, only then can we move forward.

    It would have been possible to fulfill and overfulfill the plan would not have been Bai agents, but heroes of shock communist labor. And the same food aid was understandably looted, there was not enough food, they didn’t bury the grain, but simply distributed everything as far as possible in favor of their village, in Asia, relatives, the clan is always in the first place
    1. Humpty
      Humpty 23 February 2023 17: 31
      +2
      Quote from Tim666
      opportunities are all in favor of your village, in Asia, relatives, the clan is always in the first place

      That's why it was, some zhors, and in the neighboring camp - hunger. And who did feed?
  11. Lewww
    Lewww 23 February 2023 13: 26
    +4
    So, the economic destruction, as can be judged, was carried out as follows.

    First, the bay agents in the district authorities were greatly inflated reports on the presence of livestock and crops ...

    Thirdly, when the population was left without a livelihood, bay agents, including those with party cards, organized migrations ...
    Not convincing, some kind of adjustment of the conditions of the problem to the result, obviously declared by the author to be correct.

    What grounds allowed the author to conclude that the Holodomor was staged by "bay agents, including those with party cards", and not ordinary workers of the Soviet government, who carried out collectivization too zealously and stupidly?
    The conclusion that the famine was organized precisely by the Kazakh bai, I made back in my book, based on a rather scarce documentary material. Rather, it was a guess.
    And here the author is generally entangled in contradictions.
    Since in the end: the conclusion that the famine was organized precisely by the Kazakh bai was made on the basis of fairly documentary material, substantiating the correctness of such a conclusion, or is this a personal guess of the author?
    What documents testify that the famine was organized by "bay agents"?
    1. Timofey Charuta
      Timofey Charuta 23 February 2023 23: 50
      0
      I advise you to first read the post under discussion, and only then demand documents that "testify that the famine was organized by" agents of the beys.

      The text under discussion is full of references to documents. I quote:
      "...Finally, fourthly, the systematic plunder of food aid. In the Chingistav region, the OGPU uncovered a group of beys, participants in the uprising in 1931, who plundered food aid and robbed collective farms. It included: the chairman of the Sarzhal village council Duysembaev, Kupozhanov, Abylgazin and Kozylganov. They had connections with the secretary of the district committee, Nurmagambetov, the chairman of the control commission, Smakov, the people's judge, Isabekov, and the prosecutor, Medeubayev, Thanks to their intervention, most of the gang remained at large (vol. III, p. 497).

      The materials of the OGPU show that the theft of food aid was of a large-scale nature. As of July 1932, 391,3 thousand poods of food aid were distributed to Kazakhstan, while 86 thousand poods (21%) were plundered. In the already mentioned Zhanaarka region, where more than a thousand people died of starvation and cannibalism from May 1931 to January 1932, a group of senior officials headed by the chairman of the district executive committee Anbrakhmanov stole more than 10 thousand pounds of food aid. The OGPU intervened in this, opened a case and arrested 78 leading officials of the district and pseudo-activists (vol. III, p. 267), etc., etc. according to the text.

      Truly, the truth pricks the eyes!
  12. nikolaevskiy78
    nikolaevskiy78 23 February 2023 13: 28
    +4
    so-called. Ashalkylyk is an important narrative in the ideology of modern Kazakhstan. The article is good because it reveals well what the old time would have called the "class essence" of these narratives. Liberal historiography has long declared this aspect an anachronism, although it is obvious that it is unscientific to reject the forms of stratification of a society with separate interests that come into conflict. I put a fat plus.
  13. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 23 February 2023 13: 55
    +2
    Purges sometimes led to interesting consequences. In several grain-growing regions, after the cleansing of the collective farms, many collective farms suddenly found bread to fulfill the grain procurement plan.
    They did not want to go to cut the forest. But I guess. that the concealment of the true state of affairs was already drawing on Article 58, so, in the best case for them, they went anyway.
  14. Tim666
    Tim666 23 February 2023 14: 05
    +3
    Quote: nikolaevskiy78
    so-called. Ashalkylyk is an important narrative in the ideology of modern Kazakhstan. The article is good because it reveals well what the old time would have called the "class essence" of these narratives. Liberal historiography has long declared this aspect an anachronism, although it is obvious that it is unscientific to reject the forms of stratification of a society with separate interests that come into conflict. I put a fat plus.

    When on the face of hand-to-hand leadership with moronic ideas and a negative result, then it is very convenient to shove everything on the class issue, traitors, spies, saboteurs, simply enemies of the people. It’s the same in Russia and Ukraine and Belarus, when the kulaks were dispossessed, the rest were driven to collective farms and received a shortage of grain, because political workers from the district committees demanded to drop out to such and such a level, even throw grain into the frozen ground, and then they began to actively identify the kulakists because the kulaks were then evicted , and the guilty ones are needed ... Someone from the especially stupid ones himself fell under the distribution.
    1. nikolaevskiy78
      nikolaevskiy78 23 February 2023 17: 10
      +3
      And hand ... post and social stratification are somewhat different things.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Tim666
    Tim666 23 February 2023 14: 28
    +2
    Quote: parusnik
    In Ukraine, it began with the promotion of the Holodomor theme, under Yushchenko, ended with the Poroshenko regime. Probably Kazakhstan is waiting for the same.

    It’s bad that the topics were overly politicized, and the fact that these were tragedies, a consequence of the idiotic decisions of the central government, is stupid to deny.
  17. Humpty
    Humpty 23 February 2023 15: 17
    +1
    Thanks to the author for the article. He himself came to similar conclusions, the main reason for the mass famine in the south of the RSFSR, among the Kazakhs in the early thirties, was caused primarily by bai provocations and sabotage. If the author knows how things were with the residents of the Gulyaevsky district and deliberately keeps silent, I understand, he saves the nerves of readers from indignation.
    In short, to soften the story, this would correspond to the flight of the "hungry" from the prosperous meat-packing plant to the hungry lands.
    The brother of a grandmother I knew well made a lot of efforts to save the lives of Kazakh refugees, the reasons for the threat to their lives were different.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 24 February 2023 14: 41
      +2
      Quote: Humpty
      Came to similar conclusions myself.

      hi Hello buddy!
      We have already talked about this topic, so I will digress from Kazakhstan and transfer our attention to the Russian lands.
      Which bai are to blame for the terrible famine that engulfed the former grain-growing south of the Krasnoyarsk Territory, the Altai, Orenburg, Saratov and Kuban steppes? Who is to blame for the fact that the harvest of the 31st year was 20 million tons less by 20 million of the harvest of the 31st year? Who is to blame for the fact that the number of cattle for the same year decreased by 7 million? Who is to blame for the fact that the number of draft horses and oxen has decreased by 14 million? Who is to blame for the fact that Turkestan has turned from a granary into a food importer? I understand modern Kazakhs, they need to find the last one in the failed breakthrough to paradise, but I don’t understand eminent historians ..... if you, a professional historian, then write the truth, and don’t throw spears with falsifiers and don’t deal with justifying this or that building! Write the truth and you will be honored and praised!
  18. Tim666
    Tim666 23 February 2023 16: 57
    -5
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Quote: Vasily50
    .... in those same years * from hunger * they died in all European countries without exception, and even, you won’t believe it, in the USA and Canada.
    Were you hungry? Or so they hid traces of bacteriological warfare ......

    The years of the Great Depression in the United States. I have no doubt that if something like this happened now, they would definitely find Russian trace
    .... graves of typhoid ..... buried there are inscribed in * victims of hunger * .....

    Not surprised. Lists of the "repressed" were also compiled. Those who served under criminal articles, including theft of people's property, were listed during perestroika already as innocent victims

    Do not sculpt a hunchback, can you give specific examples?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 26 February 2023 06: 34
      0
      Quote from Tim666
      Do not sculpt a hunchback, can you give specific examples?

      A specific example, my grandfather stayed in the NKVD camp, he was sent to a mine in the suburbs.
  19. Aleprok
    Aleprok 23 February 2023 19: 43
    -2
    Amer's training manual worked in Ukraine, which means it will work in Kazakhstan (((especially since Russophobia is now in trend ... as long as we are weak, it will be so
  20. Chack wessel
    Chack wessel 23 February 2023 20: 29
    0
    The “holodomors” were staged by local aboriginal apparatchiks, and the Russians are to blame for this, obviously ...
  21. Zymran
    Zymran 25 February 2023 15: 37
    -2
    A typical quilted style to move arrows to the mythical Bai underground.
  22. Ed1970
    Ed1970 26 February 2023 06: 22
    +4
    And what prevented you from creating films, writing books and erecting monuments dedicated to the real causes of the famine? "The OGPU celebrated the formation of Bai unions" - why hasn't this become public property until now? Did the state cooperate with the beys, was afraid of their disloyalty, so it only "noted" instead of taking it seriously?
    1. Eule
      Eule 27 February 2023 12: 46
      +1
      Quote: Ed1970
      Did the state cooperate with the beys, was afraid of their disloyalty, so it only "noted" instead of taking it seriously?

      Personnel issue. Ordinary Kazakhs are illiterate, they cannot lead due to lack of knowledge. Russian immigrants from the OGPU - they do not know Kazakh, in general, as usual, "cadres decided everything"
  23. Alexander Lomakin
    Alexander Lomakin 1 March 2023 10: 58
    +1
    In Kazakhstan, this topic, the Holodomor, is being actively promoted. It gets to the point that they present it as a genocide specially arranged by the Russians. I approve this, because participated in verbal battles at the forum of the Kustanai "Our Newspaper". The new editor-in-chief, who replaced the deceased predecessor, who stopped such conversations, on the contrary, provides pages of the newspaper to promote such ideas. It is presented as "the restoration of historical justice" and "the opportunity for everyone to express their opinion." Here are just those who disagree with the fact that this is all specially inflated, removed and gagged. If you knew how much Russophobia is flourishing in Kazakhstan now!
    By the way, Topwar.ru is blocked in Kazakhstan.