Post-war German jeeps

40
Post-war German jeeps


“In the difficult and difficult conditions of the war with Russia
we were no longer talking about technically flawless
and impressive vehicle design,
simplicity and a large margin of safety were important here.

W. Oswald

What is a Jeep?


We very often use the word "jeep", without even thinking: what does it mean? The brave automobile journalists succeeded especially strongly in this matter, striving to call every all-wheel drive station wagon with increased ground clearance that turned up under their hot creative hand as a jeep. What is the meaning of this magical word that enchants and stirs the blood of every true lover of four-wheel drive cars?jeep"?



The word "jeep" was often used in Soviet technical literature and was a "semi-official" term denoting a certain type of vehicle - a light reconnaissance vehicle with an open body of the now forgotten "phaeton" type, accommodating 4-5 fighters (including the driver) or two fighters and a load weighing about 250 kg.
The first Soviet jeep was GAZ-64, put into small-scale production at the end of 1941 (a total of 672 pieces were manufactured).


In 1943, by upgrading the GAZ-64 (the engine power and the track of the drive axles were increased), a new Soviet jeep was designed GAZ-67.


For the period from the start of production until May 9, 1945, 4 GAZ-851 and GAZ-67B were produced.

But the most massive jeep of the Red Army during the Great Patriotic War was the one that arrived in the USSR from the USA under the Lend-Lease agreement "Willis-MV" (aka "Ford GPW"). In total, about 40 Jeeps arrived from overseas in the USSR (in the form of finished cars and vehicle kits):



The inhabitants of the city recaptured from the Nazis rejoice, and their liberators, exhausted to death, soldiers of the Red Army, sleep soundly in the American "Willis". Eternal memory to them - eternal glory!

On the design features of jeeps of the Second World War


Both American and Soviet jeeps of the Gorky Automobile Plant had rigid drive axles and spring suspension. This circumstance gave rise to the false conclusion in the minds of many people that, they say, all jeeps of the Second World War were equipped with a dependent suspension. This is not entirely true, or rather, not at all.

In World War II, jeeps (light connected reconnaissance and patrol vehicles) with independent suspension of all wheels were also used.

The proud Germans were especially successful in this matter, mockingly referring to the American design school and striving to achieve such high technical perfection in the development of their machines that careless Americans did not even dream of (and we must pay tribute - they succeeded).

Unlike the United States, where only one jeep model was developed before the war, German engineers designed as many as three different models of light reconnaissance vehicles, all of which had independent wheel suspension:

1) KDF-82,


2) KDF-166,


3) a typical standardized reconnaissance vehicle manufactured by BMW, Shtever and Hanomag.


A typical car has proven itself not from the best side. Its design turned out to be overcomplicated, breakdowns often occurred, the machine required laborious maintenance, and as a result, its production was curtailed in 1943.

But the KDF-82, developed in the design bureau of the famous Ferdinand Porsche, was produced until the end of the war and was recognized as the best German army jeep. Another graduate of the Porsche design bureau, the KDF-166 amphibious vehicle, also performed superbly, its high cross-country ability is still legendary.

Post-war German jeeps


But then came 1945, Germany played the war.

The defeated Third Reich was divided by the winners into 2 parts: the western, which became the FRG, and the eastern, the GDR. In addition to the fact that many German cities were ruins, the destruction of all economic ties of the former united country was a big disaster. The Germans were artificially divided into "Eastern" and "Western", two states emerged, hostile in ideology.

Both countries struggled with devastation for a long time, but the innate diligence of the Germans little by little did its job - the two Germanys, like a fabulous Phoenix bird, were reborn from the ashes.

And in 1954, the government of Germany was firmly convinced that the country had already grown strong enough and it was time to re-form its own armed forces - the Bundeswehr. According to rough estimates, about 10 light reconnaissance vehicles with a 000x4 wheel arrangement were required for the resurgent army. It was tempting to take the simplest path: to buy Willys M4 from the United States.

But the German government acted very wisely, deciding to entrust the development and production of cars to domestic automobile firms. This solution had the following advantages:

1) allowed to inject financial flows not into someone else's, but into their own economy;

2) get rid of foreign dependence in the supply of spare parts for future cars;

3) create new jobs for its citizens.

This is what the correct state (and not selfish) approach is.

In 1954, a tender was announced for the supply of light reconnaissance vehicles to the Bundeswehr, in which three West German automobile companies took part: Goliath, Porshe and Auto Union. In the same year, they developed, assembled and provided the military with prototypes of new German jeeps for road tests.

Experienced machines of the company Goliath were designed with a front independent suspension and a rear axle in the form of a solid beam.


And on the jeeps of Porshe and Auto Union firms, independent suspension of all wheels (articulated drive axles) was used.

Опытный Porsche 597 Jagdwagen:


All presented samples of cars had many shortcomings, firms gradually eliminated them, and as a result, the tender was won by the firm Auto Union. It is believed that the main reasons for winning the tender were the lowest price and the company's large production capacities, which make it possible to launch serial production of the newly-minted German jeeps as soon as possible. But some jokers stated that the military was captivated by four interconnected rings, flaunting on the radiator lining:


The first post-war German jeep from Auto Union (photo above) with independent suspension on all wheels, which later received the name Munga (from the abbreviation Mehrzweck Universal Gelandewagen mit Allradantrieb), was put into production in 1954 and produced by 1968 a total of 46 pieces. Of these, 450 were gladly adopted by the Bundeswehr, and the remaining vehicles were distributed among peaceful public services.

The Germans had colossal front-line experience behind their backs, in the last war they suffered a lot with the repair and maintenance of vehicles with independent suspension, but nevertheless the fact remains: they made the first post-war jeep with articulated drive axles.

This car was good for everyone, but the overall splendor was greatly spoiled by a two-stroke engine, which requires the addition of special oil to gasoline. As a result, during the combustion of the fuel mixture, a cloud of asphyxiating gas was released, and when moving in a convoy, the infantrymen who followed the car often experienced bouts of intoxication.

It is noteworthy that in the cars, at first, a blocked interaxle drive was used (without an interaxle differential) with the possibility of detaching the rear drive wheels from the power flow. At the same time, the car became front-wheel drive (this solution was later applied by Soviet designers in the development of the military transporter of the leading edge of the TPK, which became a civilian LuAZ-969).

But in 1956, for some reason, German engineers abandoned such an interaxle drive scheme and organized an even more original one.

Simplifying the design of the gearbox to the limit, they eliminated the mechanism for disabling the rear drive axle, and Munga began to be produced with a non-switchable blocked drive of two drive axles, which caused a deterioration in agility and unnecessarily loaded the power drive mechanisms on paved roads. Probably, there was no other car with this type of center drive before or after.

The first post-war German jeep proved itself so well that in 1976 the command of the Bundeswehr turned to the leadership of the Volkswagen concern (which owned the DKV plant in those years) with a request to develop a new modern German jeep by modernizing the Munga. The leadership went to meet the wishes of the generals, and soon Audi engineers designed an excellent lightweight and maneuverable reconnaissance vehicle with independent suspension of all wheels, similar in design to the Munga suspension, in which transverse springs served as an elastic element.

The car that got the name polecat (Ferret), went into serial production in 1978, was met with a bang by the military and was produced until 1988.


It is curious to note that in 1981 a Canadian company acquired a license for the production of this model. Bombardier and launched the production of these jeeps under its own emblem for the Canadian and Belgian armies.


When developing a new jeep, an unfortunate miscalculation made during the design of Munga was corrected - a two-stroke 3-cylinder engine was replaced with a four-stroke power of 75 hp. With. The center drive scheme was also changed: off-road, a blocked center drive was used, and when driving on hard roads, it was possible to turn off the front drive axle, and the car became rear-wheel drive.

In addition, following the long tradition of the German design school, the engineers abandoned the use of a demultiplier in the transfer case (in the Munga RK there was a reduction gear number 1,604), and its functions were assigned to the reduction gear number 7,603 additionally introduced into the gearbox. It was used on difficult off-road conditions and during long-term movement of cars in a convoy when they were driving next to soldiers who were stomping on foot.

First Jeep of the German Democratic Republic


In the early 50s. (according to various sources, either since 1952, or since 1955) at the plant IFA the production of the first East German all-wheel drive jeep was launched R2M.


It is curious to note that the transfer case of the car provided for 3 positions of the lever that changes the modes of operation of the center drive:

1. Extreme rear, in which all the torque between the drive axles was redistributed to the rear axle.

2. Middle position: the distribution of torque between the drive axles was carried out by an asymmetric center differential in the proportion of 36,3% to the front axle and 63,7% to the rear axle.

3. Extreme front: the torque was distributed to both axles, while the center differential was locked.

For driving in difficult off-road conditions in the transfer case there was a demultiplier (downshift). A self-locking worm differential was installed in the rear axle of the car.

An independent suspension was used in the car, a transverse spring served as an elastic element.

Production of the R2M was completed in 1958, with just over 2 produced, so this car is only known to auto historians.

Final conclusion


From the foregoing, a reasonable conclusion can be drawn: all jeeps that served in the Wehrmacht during World War II, as well as those designed in Germany and received by the Bundeswehr in the first 35 post-war years, including the first post-war jeep of the GDR, had independent wheel suspension.

Is it possible, based on this circumstance, to conclude that the use of articulated axles for a jeep is a more correct engineering solution than designing a suspension on rigid beam bridges?

Well, of course not. The use of one or another engineering solution in the development of a jeep is due to a variety of reasons: a feature of the country's existing design school; the desire of the manufacturer to ensure the maximum possible unification of the created machine in terms of components and assemblies with serial models; specific customer requirements, etc.

And to conclude which engineering solution is better and which is worse, based only on the total number of produced cars where such solutions were applied, is the easiest way to fall into error.

The most massive jeep of the Second World War is considered the American "Willis", 626 of them were assembled. But few people know that when designing it, the designers worked in a hurry and did not do it the best way, but the fastest, simplest and cheapest way.

And many people call the KDF-82 the best jeep of the Second World War, which was also designed taking into account the maximum possible unification with the Volkswagen-38 production model, that is, as cheaper, but Ferdinand Porsche, who created it, so skillfully thought out the design of the car that this light rear-wheel drive car with a road with a clearance of 290 mm, it was practically not inferior in cross-country ability to the Willis, and surpassed it in other operational properties.

Which once again proves the well-known truth: a cross-country passenger car designed for operation both on and off-road is the most complex technical design, which is subject to numerous, sometimes mutually conflicting technical requirements. And not every designer manages to reconcile them among themselves, and at the initial stage of designing a car, to find the only true engineering concept, which in the end will help turn the car he created into a legend.

And those few designers who succeeded in this in the best possible way, together with their four-wheeled offspring, forever entered the world automotive industry. history.
And we will never forget their names...

Note. When writing the article, some information was used from the books of E. D. Kochnev “Military vehicles of the Wehrmacht and its allies”, “Red Army vehicles 1918–1945”, as well as V. Oswald “Complete catalog of military vehicles and tanks Germany 1900-1982".
40 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +1
    24 February 2023 05: 00
    But the most massive jeep of the Red Army during the Great Patriotic War was the Willis-MV, which arrived in the USSR from the USA under a lend-lease agreement.
    Willis set the bar, and everyone else dances from it ...
    1. +8
      24 February 2023 06: 34

      Mitsubishi Jeep is a compact SUV manufactured by the Japanese company Mitsubishi Motors, produced from 1952 to 1998 under license from the American company Willys-Overland motors. Originally a complete copy of the Jeep CJ3A
      I've been driving like this for 15 years.
      1. +1
        26 February 2023 21: 15
        Similar cars were produced by KIA (ASIA Rocsta) and TATA ... and also like Daihatsu ...
  2. +5
    24 February 2023 06: 38
    Thanks for the short but interesting post!
  3. +4
    24 February 2023 11: 13
    Thanks to the author! I enjoyed reading it! hi and I’ll add a little more: the cooler the jeep, the farther to run to the village behind the tractor) bully
  4. +3
    24 February 2023 14: 39
    What is a Jeep?

    The author, in a creative turmoil, did not answer this question. Judging by the content of the article, he meant a military light vehicle, which today is called LUV, and left all kinds of modern civilian four-wheel drive vehicles and SUVs "overboard."
    Among other things, the author "left overboard" the "reincarnation" of Typ 82 Kübelwagen - Typ 181, of which 60 were produced for the Bundeswehr in the 15200s.
    1. +4
      24 February 2023 15: 08
      What is a Jeep?

      The author, in a creative turmoil, did not answer this question
      Before writing a review, I would recommend that you first read the article, which specifically states:
      The word "jeep" was often used in Soviet technical literature and was a "semi-official" term denoting a certain type of vehicle - a light reconnaissance vehicle with an open body of the now forgotten "phaeton" type, accommodating 4-5 fighters (including the driver) or two fighters and a load weighing about 250 kg.
      That's what a Jeep is from a technical point of view
      1. +2
        24 February 2023 22: 18
        Lewww (Lion) That's what a Jeep is from a technical point of view
        The article is good! May I ask about the continuation of the topic (not by the quantity, but by the quality of the articles, even if they are stretched for a year (if your health allows))?
      2. 0
        27 February 2023 12: 28
        Did I understand correctly that now only Iltis is produced from all of them?
  5. +2
    24 February 2023 15: 31
    Ruyter-57
    Among other things, the author "left overboard" the "reincarnation" of Typ 82 Kübelwagen - Typ 181, of which 60 were produced for the Bundeswehr in the 15200s.


    The article listed 4x4 jeeps, designed by order of the Bundeswehr.
    Type 181 is conventional commercial vehicle 4x2, which was purchased by the Bundeswehr rather out of desperation.
    Those. at first he wasn’t, but in the end he became a German army jeep and, in principle, he could have been mentioned for a bunch
    1. +2
      24 February 2023 18: 43
      The Typ 82 Kübelwagen was also a 4x2. And the Typ 181 was developed by order of the Bundeswehr, and then it hit the commercial market.
  6. +2
    24 February 2023 19: 11
    Quote: Ruyter-57
    And Typ 181 was developed by order of the Bundeswehr
    I don’t know why you decided so, apparently you read it on Wikipedia.
    In the book by W. Oswald "The Complete Catalog of German Military Vehicles and Tanks 1900-1982." on page 458 it is written that the head of the Volkswagen concern rejected the offer of the Bundeswehr to design a car for the army.
    The fact that the Typ 181 was not designed for the Bundeswehr is quite clear from the presence of a 12-volt electric. equipment and too little fuel range. Yes, and his patency is not so hot
    So the Bundeswehr simply purchased a conventional commercial model for its needs as a temporary solution for the needs of the courier service (communications)
    1. +1
      24 February 2023 20: 45
      Apparently, you are fond of Wikipedia, moreover, you do not read it very carefully, like the book you named.
      I can also recommend Karl Anweiler, Rainer Blank: Die Rad- und Kettenfahrzeuge der Bundeswehr – 1956 bis heute.
      So, if you read all these books carefully, we will find out that Heinz Nordhoff really, in 1956, rejected the proposal of the Bundeswehr and the Bundeswehr chose DKW Munga.
      But when it came time to change the DKW Munga, the work in this direction, which was carried out jointly by France, West Germany and Italy under the Europa Jeep program, ended in nothing, and VW, at the request of the Bundeswehr, in 1969 agreed to develop the VW 181 in as a temporary replacement. After that, the VW 181 appeared on the civilian market, where, in different countries, it was sold under the names Kurierwagen, Trekker, Thing, Safari, Pescaccia.
  7. +4
    24 February 2023 22: 50
    Quote: Ruyter-57
    and VW, at the request of the Bundeswehr, agreed in 1969 to develop the VW 181 as an interim replacement.
    I doubt it very much.
    If this were the case, then according to the standardized requirement of the Bundeswehr Typ 181 would get a 24-volt electric. equipment and at the same time a standardized generator, as on all the cars of those years designed according to the TTZ of the Bundeswehr. Well, and a number of little things such as screened e-mail. equipment and a gas tank of increased capacity (or two tanks)
    But this was not observed.
    Therefore, I am more inclined to believe the authoritative historian of German technology, Werner Oswald, but you can rely on the sources you like.

    I am not fond of Wikipedia and do not read, I have a small personal scientific and technical library at hand, there is where to find reliable information
    1. 0
      25 February 2023 00: 07
      I doubt it very much.

      Denialism can take many different forms. You are not the first, you are not the last.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +1
      25 February 2023 02: 29
      Therefore, I am more inclined to believe the authoritative historian of German technology, Werner Oswald

      Tell me, would you trust VOLKSWAGEN directly?
      1. 0
        25 February 2023 13: 14
        Quote: Ruyter-57
        Therefore, I am more inclined to believe the authoritative historian of German technology, Werner Oswald

        Tell me, would you trust VOLKSWAGEN directly?
        Well, if you show me the TTZ compiled by the Bundeswehr in the 60s. for VOLKSWAGEN, where verbatim written, what is needed develop a 4x2 jeep, then I'm willing to believe.

        However, I strongly doubt the existence of such a TTZ, because according to the standards of the Bundeswehr, army jeeps should have had a power drive to all wheels.
        Hope you don't argue with that.

        It is possible that at the stage when the type 181 was already designed and put into production, the employees of the Bundeswehr, when considering the issue of acquiring it, put forward some requirements.
        But this is not a development task.
        1. +1
          25 February 2023 13: 33
          You can doubt with any force, but VOLKSWAGEN has a documented history. Or do you also doubt that they know their own history there?
  8. +4
    25 February 2023 12: 12
    I'm always a little sad about the time when an SUV was a real SUV and not a luxury bragging car possibly driven by beautiful ladies whose only obstacle was the edge of the curb.
  9. +3
    25 February 2023 13: 17
    Quote: TANKISTONE
    You can ask about the continuation of the topic
    I plan to post several more technical and historical articles on this topic on VO
    1. 0
      26 February 2023 21: 00
      - Will there be a Ford Canada? He's a Chevrolet C60 ... like this machine.
  10. +1
    25 February 2023 13: 38
    Quote: Ruyter-57
    Or do you also doubt that they know their own history there?
    Colleague, I am not interested in the epic legends of the Germans on the history of their native land.
    Once again, if you show me TTZ compiled by the Bundeswehr in the 60s. for VOLKSWAGEN, where it is literally written that it is required to develop a 4x2 jeep, then I'm willing to believe.

    Other - speculation and stories, or at best misunderstood and misinterpreted information
    1. -1
      25 February 2023 14: 06
      Yes, megalomania can take the most unexpected forms. Such too. Cadit quaestio.
      1. +3
        25 February 2023 14: 25
        Colleague Ruyter-57, I, too, once, like you, sacredly believed everything that is written in the glossy releases of manufacturers and in luxury auto editions.
        But fortunately, I quickly got rid of this children's complex. smile

        And if you you believe that in 1968-69 the Bundeswehr really ordered VOLKSWAGEN to develop an army jeep with a wheel formula 4x2 and 12-volt electrical equipment, then let it stay that way, I have nothing against hi
        1. 0
          25 February 2023 14: 58
          Colleague Leo, due to a fortunate combination of circumstances, "it is holy to believe everything that is written," starting with stone and papyrus and ending with paper, I stopped by the end of the third quarter of the last century. In the future, professional deformation only strengthened this quality. Cadit quaestio.
  11. 0
    26 February 2023 20: 45
    - So where did this "jeep" come from?
    - Not at all from "JEEP" ... wink This is how the abbreviation GP (ji pi) sounds - "General Purpose" (general purpose, multi-purpose), which was present in the name of the Ford GPW car ...
  12. +1
    27 February 2023 12: 29
    Quote: saygon66
    So where did this "jeep" come from?
    controversy on this issue is still ongoing.
    1. +2
      27 February 2023 13: 17
      Quote: Lewww
      controversy on this issue is still ongoing.

      Maybe it's easier to turn to the history of the brand itself - Jeep? How do the Yankees themselves explain?
      saygon66 voiced only one of the versions of the formation of the name "jeep", another version comes from the Ford GPW index, where G - goverment issue (state order) P - passanger (passenger / passenger) W - Williys blueprint (according to the drawings of Williams). In the armies of the US, UK or the Red Army, it sounded more like a JP, and it was customary to call a light SUV a jeep. Why J a not G is a question of phonetics. wink
      For example, while the HMMWV was developed and produced by AM General, it probably sounded like a Humvee, the rights were transferred to GM, and the brand was invented - Hammer. Masters in Marketing and Branding.
      The origin of the J index in the classification of cars classified in this category has always been interesting: SUVs and crossovers.
      The topic is interesting...
      1. 0
        27 February 2023 15: 07
        - In general, in the modern classification of road transport (Europe), the letter "J" denotes off-road vehicles ...
        1. 0
          28 February 2023 00: 00
          Quote: saygon66
          - In general, in the modern classification of road transport (Europe), the letter "J" denotes off-road vehicles ...

          We know the thing, which he wrote about, he himself owned J cars from Toyota. Why the J index was assigned is interesting ...
          1. 0
            28 February 2023 11: 48
            The “J” index was assigned because the first sample of a “jeep” type car was developed by Toyota to participate in a tender held by the US Army in 1950 and it was called “Toyota “J”
            Then, when av-l went on sale, he became known as "Toyota Jeep BJ".
            Subsequently, the letter J remained in the Toyota model index and meant "Jeep". Only this term meant not the type of army av-la, and av-l, which can be used for off-road operation.
            The letters before the "J" denoted the engine type, the first digit after it was the model series.

            Not so in the US market. In the name of the Willis models (and their descendants), by inertia, the letter “J” was present, and in other cars intended (including) for off-road operation (including large all-wheel drive pickups) other letters could be used.
            This type of car was called an SUV, and all-wheel drive pickups were sometimes called TRUCK - a truck.

            In the US Army, jeeps and 4x4 pickups went under the letter "M"
            1. 0
              28 February 2023 13: 04
              Then, when av-l went on sale, he became known as "Toyota Jeep BJ".
              Subsequently, the letter J remained in the Toyota model index and meant "Jeep". Only this term did not mean the type of army av-l, but av-l, which can be used for off-road operation.
              The letters before the "J" denoted the engine type, the first digit after it was the model series.

              The export model Toyota BJ was given the name Land Cruiser.
              However, for example, Toyota models: HiLuxPickup, HiLux Surf, 4Runner and LK Prado 90-120, Fortuner originate from the same platform (Hilux), but body series designation indices are different:
              Land Cruiser II/Land Cruiser Prado J 90(95), 120(125), 150
              FJ Cruiser J15
              Hilux Surf/4Runner N60 - N210/280
              Hilux AN50-AN120
              Fortuner AN60-AN160
              1. 0
                28 February 2023 13: 18
                The export model Toyota BJ was given the name Land Cruiser.
                more precisely the second generation of "Toyota Jeep BJ".
                However, for example, Toyota models: HiLuxPickup, HiLux Surf, 4Runner and LK Prado 90-120, Fortuner originate from one platform (Hilux),
                No, HiLux Surf, 4Runner are models on the same chassis, LK Prado 90 chassis is different.
                1. 0
                  28 February 2023 13: 36
                  Quote: Lewww
                  No, HiLux Surf, 4Runner are models on the same chassis, LK Prado 90 chassis is different.

                  Justify.
                  The release of the Toyota Land Cruiser Prado 90 series began in May 1996. Unlike the previous generation, which was a "light" version of the 70 series Land Cruiser II, the next, 90 series received a completely new body. The platform shared with the Hilux Surf / 4Runner was taken as a basis. The innovations were significant: the car acquired a more streamlined shape, a spacious and comfortable passenger compartment, large doorways; the front suspension became independent (a first for the Land Cruiser). The car was produced in two body types, with the number 90 for the 3-door version and 95 for the 5-door version. The three-door for the Japanese market also had a difference in the form of round headlights, which created a visual resemblance to the machines of the 70th series. In Japan, the car was offered with a choice of two gasoline engines or a diesel power unit, RK full-time or part-time.
  13. +1
    28 February 2023 23: 25
    Quote: Lynx2000
    Justify.
    What is the point of justifying what is generally known?
    For starters, try to understand that the term "platform" is used when comparing cars with a load-bearing body.
    Frame cars 4x4 do not have a platform, but chassis.
    Historically, HiLux Surf and 4Runner are models on the same chassis, and TLK Prado 90 has a different chassis - its original one.
    Also, the original chassis was in the TLK-80, TLK-100 and now the TLK-200.
    There were no pickups on the same chassis (with left-hand drive, I don’t know about Japanese ones).
    1. 0
      1 March 2023 00: 23
      Toyota itself claims that the Hilux model is the base from which the Surfs / 4Runners went, then the LK Prado family. The platform is a set of components and assemblies (ICE, Transmission, Frame / Body, etc.) on the basis of which a family of standard-sized vehicles is combined.
      TLK Prado from the 90 series is a mid-size SUV, the components and assemblies of which are partially compatible with classmates from Toyota: Surf, 4Runner. In the mid-90s, Surf and 4Runner, like the TLC Prado 90 series, had independent front suspension, similar axles and rear dependent suspension, internal combustion engines, gearboxes, were equipped with different types of RK (hard-wired front axle and permanent all-wheel drive), TLC Prado 90 were with part time.
      A similar situation is with the FJ Cruiser aggregated with the TLK 120, created on its basis, however, you will not "dress" the body of the TLK 120 on the Fidjik frame.
      Previously, he owned Surf 150 body, Runner 210 body, TLK 120, FJ Cruiser with manual transmission, most parts and assemblies are compatible.
      Quote: Lewww
      What is the point of justifying what is generally known?

      Really.
      However, it probably does not make sense to litter your topic. If it makes sense to discuss further, you can go to PM ...
      1. +1
        1 March 2023 01: 23
        The platform is a set of components and assemblies (ICE, Transmission, Frame / Body, etc.) on the basis of which a family of standard-sized vehicles is combined.
        The platform is a conditional marketing concept.
        CHASSIS is a specific technical concept
        TLK Prado from the 90 series is a mid-size SUV, the components and assemblies of which are partially compatible with classmates from Toyota: Surf, 4Runner. In the mid-90s, Surf and 4Runner, like the TLK Prado 90 series, had independent suspension in front, similar axles and rear dependent suspension, internal combustion engine, gearbox
        Dear, you do not know the construction of av-ley well.
        TLC Prado 90 had permanent all-wheel drive through a center differential.
        In the transfer case Surf and 4Runner did not have an interaxle differential, they had a blocked interaxle drive, as it is now in the Toyota Hilux and Fortuner designed on the same chassis
        I don’t know on what chassis the FJ Cruiser was designed - I didn’t understand
        1. 0
          1 March 2023 02: 11
          Damn ... Toyota itself claims that the TLK Prado 90 series was created on one platform with Surf and Runner 185 series (released six months earlier): https://toyota-camry-corolla.ru/land-cruiser/prado/istoriya-toyota-land-cruiser-prado/
          Even in Wikipedia, which I don't like, it is also written. In the end, we look at the catalogs of spare parts, where the spare part or unit is listed as a kit for several models.
          Dear, do you know that Toyota produced TLK 80 modifications from the RK with a hard connection of the front axle (part-time)? A friend had a prulny TLC 90 (shorty) with an internal combustion engine of 3,4 liters. (benz.), four-wheel drive was part-time scheme.
          In Surfs and Runners, RK with an m / axial differential or a hard connection of the front axle depended on the configuration.
          The Surf/Runner in the SSR5 package has a hard-wired front axle (part-time).
          The Surf/Runner in the Limited configuration has a RC with a center differential and permanent all-wheel drive (full-time).
          In addition, the so-called RK was installed on Surfs / Runners 185 and 210 series. Muiti-mode is Toyota's answer to Mitza's Super-select transfer case.
          Fortuner of the first generation was completed with a full-time m / axial diff drive.
          I wrote to you for what I know that I used ...
          Once again, the FJ Cruiser was created on the basis of the Prado 120 TLC, however, it has a short wheelbase, and the FJ Cruiser modifications with automatic transmission are equipped with a RC with a hard connection of the front axle (part-time), the FJ Cruiser with a manual transmission is equipped with a RC with an m / axial differential and a circuit permanent all-wheel drive (full-time), while the "father" TLK 120 is in full-time, this is a question of your comment about kinship in the Republic of Kazakhstan.
  14. +2
    1 March 2023 12: 04
    Quote: Lynx2000
    Damn ... Toyota itself claims that the TLK Prado 90 series was created on the same platform as Surf and Runner 185 series

    Yes, I agree with you, I was wrong. I looked at the catalogs of those years, indeed these cars are built on a single chassis, at least the Prado and Runner-Surf have the same wheelbase.
    Let's finish the near-Toyota questions on this, strongly off-top.

    Speaking of the history of the 4-runner, I wrote an article 10 years ago https://www.land-cruiser.ru/index.php?/topic/100706-skazka-pro-4-runner/
  15. 0
    1 March 2023 17: 41
    The Japanese and Indians are good students of the Jeep. Until now, and in development, this is Pajero, Patrol and LK