Military Review

Yevgeny Prigozhin: Despite all efforts, the issue of the supply of ammunition to PMC Wagner has not been resolved

227
Yevgeny Prigozhin: Despite all efforts, the issue of the supply of ammunition to PMC Wagner has not been resolved

The founder of PMC "Wagner" Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed that the issue of ammunition for the company's divisions has not yet been resolved, despite all the efforts made by him. He thanked military officer Yevgeny Poddubny, who raised this issue to a new, higher level.


According to Prigozhin, to date, the problem with the supply of ammunition has not yet been resolved, despite all attempts to solve it. Moreover, there are enough shells in the warehouses, the Russian industry produces a very large amount of ammunition, having managed to establish their production. They just don't reach the PMC units.

I can’t solve this problem, despite my acquaintances, connections, etc., everything gets stuck in the military bureaucracy

- said the curator of the "Orchestra".

Now combat generals and ordinary officers at the front allocate a certain amount of ammunition from their own stocks, sometimes going for violations, but this is not an option, this is not enough for combat operations. It is not clear who came up with certain limits and restrictions that allegedly apply to PMCs, and the procedures by which these shells must be received. Applications are written every day, submitted according to the regulations, and then they simply disappear into the depths of the military department.

Nobody knows anything, everyone nods upward, pointing their finger there, supposedly everything comes from there, hinting that I need to go to someone to apologize and confess and then the PMC fighters will receive ammunition

- Prigozhin said, adding that under Surovikin, PMCs had no problems with shells, and today someone sits in large offices, bending their fingers and deciding whether to issue ammunition or not. And at this time, at the front, without shells, boys are dying, who are also defending their homeland, just as part of another unit.
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  1. Gnefredov
    Gnefredov 20 February 2023 13: 34
    +42
    Biden in Kyiv, Prigozhin without shells.

    UPD. On February 23 and 24, the anniversary of the start of the special military operation, “great events” are expected that “Russia will remember,” Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmitry Kuleba said. ("RBC") - I don't even know what else to expect. Hm, I'll wait.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 20 February 2023 13: 40
      -39
      The question is, are there enough shells in field warehouses today? And if they are not enough for everyone, then it is logical that first of all they are received by parts of the Moscow Region.
      1. Ivan Ivanov
        Ivan Ivanov 20 February 2023 13: 52
        +18
        Moreover, there are enough shells in the warehouses, the Russian industry produces a very large amount of ammunition, having managed to establish their production. They just don't reach the PMC units.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 20 February 2023 14: 02
          -30
          Quote: IvanIvanov
          Moreover, there are enough shells in the warehouses, the Russian industry produces a very large amount of ammunition, having managed to establish their production. They just don't reach the PMC units.

          This is what he said...
          1. Tatyana
            Tatyana 20 February 2023 14: 15
            +51
            Yevgeny Prigozhin: Despite all efforts, the issue of the supply of ammunition to PMC Wagner has not been resolved

            To leave PMC "Wagner" ON THE FRONT without the proper amount of ammunition is TREASON to the Motherland and Russia! Especially in WAR!

            It seems that either a "mole" is sitting in the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, or parasites-bureaucrats-traitors from the "6th column" (among officials) are sabotaging this matter! Those. "pulling the rubber" in office work ACCORDING TO PEACETIME STANDARDS!
            And this is in WAR TIME !!!

            Stalin FOR THIS would either have shot ALL the saboteurs-bureaucrats and bureaucracies, or would have sent them all TO THE FRONT and to LABOR camps for ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE!!
            1. Aag
              Aag 20 February 2023 14: 42
              -29
              Quote: Tatiana
              Yevgeny Prigozhin: Despite all efforts, the issue of the supply of ammunition to PMC Wagner has not been resolved

              To leave PMC "Wagner" ON THE FRONT without the proper amount of ammunition is TREASON to the Motherland and Russia! Especially in WAR!

              It seems that either a "mole" is sitting in the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, or parasites-bureaucrats-traitors from the "6th column" (among officials) are sabotaging this matter! Those. "pulling the rubber" in office work ACCORDING TO PEACETIME STANDARDS!
              And this is in WAR TIME !!!

              Stalin FOR THIS would either have shot ALL the saboteurs-bureaucrats and bureaucracies, or would have sent them all TO THE FRONT and to LABOR camps for ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE!!

              Were there PMCs under Stalin? ... Or other poorly controlled organizations (not to mention the armed ones)?
              1. Tatyana
                Tatyana 20 February 2023 14: 57
                +22
                Quote: AAG
                Were there PMCs under Stalin? ... Or other poorly controlled organizations (not to mention the armed ones)?

                This does not justify you in any way!
                The Wagnerites are fighting well and with their courage and professionalism set an example for everyone!
                From envy and greed for the Wagnerites, someone in the accounting and financial departments of the Moscow Region simply "fell from the oak"!

                And during the Second World War, in addition to the spacecraft, the SOVIET PARTISANS also fought with the enemy!
                And the SOVIET REAR TILED to help them - tried to supply them with food and weapons!
                1. Konnick
                  Konnick 20 February 2023 15: 04
                  +14
                  And during the Second World War, Soviet PARTISANS also fought

                  But they are specifically lacking. How many units we have with loud names like "special forces GRU", "special forces FSB". Why are they not thrown to the western borders of Ukraine in order to organize sabotage on communications ... you can’t hear it at all, are you blown away or something?
                  1. Vicontas
                    Vicontas 20 February 2023 21: 49
                    +14
                    Because under Serdyukov and a friend of GDP Ivanov, talented commanders who most clearly showed themselves in the Chechen war were fired. The remaining dull mediocrity and parquet commanders are only capable of "whatever you want" and strategic operations to seize budget funds and tactically transfer them from their pockets! Well or build a church on the territory of a military unit. By the way, one and a half million sets of military uniforms were never found?
                  2. lelik613
                    lelik613 22 February 2023 06: 36
                    0
                    Lech Nikolaeva with a lottery ticket and a sausage at the ready?
                2. Andriuha077
                  Andriuha077 20 February 2023 15: 05
                  +2
                  Soviet PARTISANS - and SOVIET REAR
                  Stalin thought.
                  And suddenly this partisan will gain influence.
                  Or fame, creating figurines from wood in the forest.
                  Don't give projectiles.
                  1. Aag
                    Aag 20 February 2023 16: 13
                    0
                    Quote: Andriuha077
                    Soviet PARTISANS - and SOVIET REAR
                    Stalin thought.
                    And suddenly this partisan will gain influence.
                    Or fame, creating figurines from wood in the forest.
                    Don't give projectiles.

                    I think I understand you...
                    Not only on the downsides...)))
                    1. Andriuha077
                      Andriuha077 20 February 2023 16: 26
                      +2
                      Punishers have one law, one end -
                      If you chop the fascist tramp,
                      And if you do not catch lead in your chest -
                      You will catch a medal on your chest for courage. According to the historian, do not correspond the reality of the assertion that criminals were sent everywhere to penal companies, the battalions were supplied with ammunition and provisions on a residual basis, and NKVD detachments with machine guns were stationed behind the line of penal soldiers. In most cases, the fines were released within the time limits set by the orders of the people's commissar of defense and his deputies. And for the courage and heroism shown in battles, the penalty boxers were awarded orders and medals, some of them were awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union.
                      Do not be alarmed when sunset is not in place,
                      Doomsday is a fairy tale for elders
                      They just rotate the Earth wherever they want,
                      Our interchangeable companies on the march.
                3. hrych
                  hrych 20 February 2023 15: 12
                  -6
                  The backbone of the partisans, of course, was the NKVD officers, the soldiers of the Red Army who remained surrounded and, of course, relying on the local population. Do not be sad about Wagner, they are now being transferred to Zaporozhye. They seized all the dungeons of Artemsoli, all the main mines of salt and gypsum, where there is a lot of interest and special work of the competent authorities is needed. The process of encircling Bakhmut is underway, the pincers are closing in, coordination of the actions of the Defense Ministry is already needed here, and if the enemy does run, an aviation safari and arts are needed, primarily MLRS. If there is a boiler, then also, assault actions to a minimum. And the Wagnerites, first of all, are good attack aircraft.
                4. Aag
                  Aag 20 February 2023 16: 11
                  -6
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  Quote: AAG
                  Were there PMCs under Stalin? ... Or other poorly controlled organizations (not to mention the armed ones)?

                  This does not justify you in any way!
                  The Wagnerites are fighting well and with their courage and professionalism set an example for everyone!
                  From envy and greed for the Wagnerites, someone in the accounting and financial departments of the Moscow Region simply "fell from the oak"!

                  And during the Second World War, in addition to the spacecraft, the SOVIET PARTISANS also fought with the enemy!
                  And the SOVIET REAR TILED to help them - tried to supply them with food and weapons!

                  Doesn't justify what?
                  WHAT did I write reprehensible?
                  And ... Partisans, really, fought for money ?!

                  You would have told this to my grandfather, the Bryansk partisan ... 50 years ago, while he was alive!
                  Did I write somewhere that the Wagnerites are bad at fighting? Not courageous? Not professional? (Please, give a link to my comments. Otherwise, do not attribute your conjectures to me.).
                  "... From envy and greed for the Wagnerites, someone in the accounting departments and financial departments of the Moscow Region simply" fell from the oak "!..."
                  I can not give a clear answer, because I do not have the initial data. It looks like you...
                  General.
                  PMCs (not only domestic ones) have proven their effectiveness in regional conflicts, solving individual tactical tasks.
                  I did not graduate from the Armed Forces Academy, but even my level (if transferred from the Strategic Missile Forces to the combined arms level, which is far-fetched) convinces me that no PMCs will be able to solve the tasks of the General Staff, MO.
                  I agree, there are a lot of problems there. Some of them were already obvious in 2014. (And were the conclusions drawn from this? ... Were the necessary movements taken? Who is to blame? I think it’s not the RF Ministry of Defense ... ((().
                  Political realities...
                  By the way, Tatyana, thank you - they pushed me to the idea (only now try to "digest" her yourself!):
                  I’m sorry, I’m not hinting about age, but you probably remember how the market economy was imposed on us, as they said that the Market would regulate everything (inefficient ones would die) ...
                  Did it help? According to the media - YES!
                  Climbing into your pocket (the wallet has not been needed for a long time): somehow it’s not very hard to believe ...
                  Do you follow the analogy?
                  Yes, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have shrunk a lot (I would have written - degraded - but, this is an article ...).
                  So, judging by your (and other comments), it is proposed to replace the Moscow Region with a number of PMCs!
                  If there is an answer, I will continue the argument.
                  For now, I'm afraid that all the writing will fly off, as it happened more than once.
                  "Bell" does not work for three months. But, I look at the answers to my iconic comments ...
                  hi
                  1. Tatyana
                    Tatyana 20 February 2023 16: 59
                    0
                    Quote: AAG
                    "... From envy and greed for the Wagnerites, someone in the accounting departments and financial departments of the Moscow Region simply" fell from the oak "!..."

                    In this case, speaking about weapons and the reaction of the financial departments of the rear, I meant that the weapon itself and its delivery to the battlefields cost BIG money for the country - both for the Wagnerites and for the partisans during the Second World War. Do not make the fighters weapons on their knees and do not surrender to them unarmed enemies as prisoners!

                    Secondly. With regards to payment to the participants of the CBO, I will tell you more. Namely.

                    Article "To whom millions have gone (in the sense of money for salaries) NWO fighters? A "colossal scheme" has surfaced - https://dzen.ru/a/Y_LzXCkTgFbnLUAO - talks about the scam of the participants of the SVO in paying them salaries along with their "combat" ones by the officers of the Russian Armed Forces. A similar trend of stealing junior salaries by officers is the same that is observed in Ukraine.

                    Quote: AAG
                    you probably remember how a market economy was imposed on us, as they said that the Market would regulate everything (inefficient ones would die) ...
                    I have already written about this here many times - in your own vein!
                    1. Aag
                      Aag 20 February 2023 18: 30
                      -1
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      Quote: AAG
                      "... From envy and greed for the Wagnerites, someone in the accounting departments and financial departments of the Moscow Region simply" fell from the oak "!..."

                      In this case, speaking about weapons and the reaction of the financial departments of the rear, I meant that the weapon itself and its delivery to the battlefields cost BIG money for the country - both for the Wagnerites and for the partisans during the Second World War. Do not make the fighters weapons on their knees and do not surrender to them unarmed enemies as prisoners!

                      Secondly. With regards to payment to the participants of the CBO, I will tell you more. Namely.

                      Article "To whom millions have gone (in the sense of money for salaries) NWO fighters? A "colossal scheme" has surfaced - https://dzen.ru/a/Y_LzXCkTgFbnLUAO - talks about the scam of the participants of the SVO in paying them salaries along with their "combat" ones by the officers of the Russian Armed Forces. A similar trend of stealing junior salaries by officers is the same that is observed in Ukraine.

                      Quote: AAG
                      you probably remember how a market economy was imposed on us, as they said that the Market would regulate everything (inefficient ones would die) ...
                      I have already written about this here many times - in your own vein!

                      Thank you.
                      For the answer ... For indignation at the current structure in the Moscow Region ...
                      BUT! PMC - there is NO way out of the stuevina! IMHO ... I repeat - this is how to give all the security of the Country (of the people, and - even the oligarchy, as it turned out - at the mercy of the desire of the world giant - while he is alive and well, alas ...)
                      hi
                      PMCs, - maximum, - tactical (yes, - - an effective, productive link ... Why was something similar not created at the level of the Ministry of Defense? - a question for its leaders and their patrons).
                      Only, - once again, - such a trend can turn into the most sad consequences (colleagues have already cited an example of the Cossacks on the next branch.) ...
                      hi
                    2. Aag
                      Aag 20 February 2023 20: 36
                      -1
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      Quote: AAG
                      "... From envy and greed for the Wagnerites, someone in the accounting departments and financial departments of the Moscow Region simply" fell from the oak "!..."

                      In this case, speaking about weapons and the reaction of the financial departments of the rear, I meant that the weapon itself and its delivery to the battlefields cost BIG money for the country - both for the Wagnerites and for the partisans during the Second World War. Do not make the fighters weapons on their knees and do not surrender to them unarmed enemies as prisoners!

                      Secondly. With regards to payment to the participants of the CBO, I will tell you more. Namely.

                      Article "To whom millions have gone (in the sense of money for salaries) NWO fighters? A "colossal scheme" has surfaced - https://dzen.ru/a/Y_LzXCkTgFbnLUAO - talks about the scam of the participants of the SVO in paying them salaries along with their "combat" ones by the officers of the Russian Armed Forces. A similar trend of stealing junior salaries by officers is the same that is observed in Ukraine.

                      Quote: AAG
                      you probably remember how a market economy was imposed on us, as they said that the Market would regulate everything (inefficient ones would die) ...
                      I have already written about this here many times - in your own vein!

                      About weapons, supplying partisans ... well, and PMCs now ... As a rule, they themselves mined. Only having gained strength, proving their significance, they were supported by the Center to the extent possible. Here I agree with you.
                      Sorry, I didn’t follow your link, Zen, in general, is a so-so source ...
                      But I think I understand what you wanted to say - not from any kind of "sources", but from specific people - volunteers of the first wave - Ahmad cares; Kadyrov - pays, arms, equips ... Pays the families of two hundredths ...
                      With MO ... - everything is more difficult ...
                      It is no secret that those who were close to partial mobilization, who did not excuse themselves, molt, and some of the ideological ones (thanks to them, health, and good luck!), They preferred to go through Kadyrov, and not through the military registration and enlistment offices ...
                      There was more faith in decency.
                      ... I already wrote: a distant relative disappeared there ... They took him to Novosib, - he lay in a trench for 40 days .. (to the place where he was formally called up), - further, - yourself! There is no such money in the Trans-Baikal town!! And since the days of the USSR there has not been!
                      It seems that it was decided - RVC provided the "delivery" ... A couple of other examples (though, already from the words of a friend - there is no reason not to trust), - both Wagnerians. One classmate (professional killer from the 90s) of an acquaintance; the second, for some time a neighbor (drug dealer) ...
                      I can’t evaluate either the personal qualities of everyone, neither ideological nor professional (my friend spoke about the first one in a positive way ...), but, - Fact, - the PMC did everything that it promised ...
                      1. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 21 February 2023 00: 56
                        +2
                        Quote: AAG
                        Sorry, I didn’t follow your link, Zen, in general, is a so-so source ...
                        Be sure to visit! This is a Zen text material from the Tsargrad website about a glaring case about the attitude towards Russian volunteers in the ranks of the RF Armed Forces. "Tsargral" raised the topic in connection with the appeal of volunteers to the RF Armed Forces on the occasion of the start of the SVO.
                        Quote: AAG
                        I can’t evaluate either the personal qualities of everyone, neither ideological nor professional (my friend spoke about the first one in a positive way ...), but, - The fact is that the PMC did everything that it promised ...
                        That's it! PMC "Wagner" is fighting well and continues to fight in the NVO for RUSSIA !!! You can't spit in the well from which you drink water. The goal is GENERAL - for VICTORY over the ENEMY!
                      2. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 21 February 2023 01: 35
                        +1
                        Quote: AAG
                        Sorry, I didn’t follow your link, Zen, in general, is a so-so source ...
                        Add.
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        Be sure to visit! This is a Zen text material from the Tsargrad website about a glaring case about the attitude towards Russian volunteers in the ranks of the RF Armed Forces.
                        "Tsargrad" raised the topic in connection with the appeal of volunteers to the RF Armed Forces after the announcement of the beginning of the NWO.

                        If such theft is not stopped, then Russia will slide into the Ukrainian version. Namely.
                        Kyiv does not have funds for the previously promised payments to the military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, money, allocated by the West to support the Ukrainian army, they fly past it, settling in the pockets of various officials.
                        See details - https://topwar.ru/211311-istochnik-ministr-oborony-ukrainy-reznikov-podpisal-prikaz-znachitelno-urezajuschij-zarplaty-i-boevye-vyplaty-v-vsu.html?yrwinfo=1676931579976248- 2115949247800249956-balancer-l7leveler-kubr-yp-vla-9-BAL-3629
                5. alexey sidykin
                  alexey sidykin 21 February 2023 13: 53
                  0
                  Are you so sure that the shells are not enough? For the front, no matter how much you give it, will always be small.
                  1. OLEG CZIGANOV
                    OLEG CZIGANOV 21 February 2023 21: 28
                    +1
                    Of course, it’s more profitable for people to pay off in your opinion, shells need to be financed, and people are free and women still give birth. And the most important thing at the top, apparently, they think the same thing, it’s not for nothing that they said that we still have 14 million people in the reserve, but they can generally not be given weapons, drive and drive to pillboxes and what savings for the budget. And by chance you don’t know, Shoigu has a yacht.
              2. Oden280
                Oden280 20 February 2023 18: 18
                +4
                Under Stalin, our department of the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff was put up against the wall a long time ago.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 21 February 2023 12: 46
                  +1
                  Quote: Oden280
                  Under Stalin, our department of the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff was put up against the wall a long time ago.

                  Under Stalin, NGSH Zhukov G.K. in the first 10 days of the war, he lost 200 total casualties near Minsk. Together with Minsk...
                  He was apparently shot three times for this or impaled????
                  Once again - 200 total losses in 000 days of the war.
                  20 people per day..
                  And nothing, no one demanded to put him against the wall. For some reason .....
                  1. Tatyana
                    Tatyana 21 February 2023 20: 29
                    0
                    Quote: your1970
                    Quote: Oden280
                    Under Stalin, our department of the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff was put up against the wall a long time ago.

                    Under Stalin, NGSH Zhukov G.K. in the first 10 days of the war, he lost 200 total casualties near Minsk. Together with Minsk...
                    He was apparently shot three times for this or impaled????
                    Once again - 200 total losses in 000 days of the war.
                    20 people per day..
                    And nothing, no one demanded to put him against the wall. For some reason .....

                    Your comparison with Zhukov is INCORRECT!
                    G.K. Zhukov DID NOT PUT OBSTACLES to anyone in the supply of rear weapons to the front !!!
              3. Alexander Kuksin
                Alexander Kuksin 21 February 2023 08: 28
                +3
                There were ... Partisan detachments. Did teacher Kovpak gather his detachment on orders from above? And there were a lot of such "PMCs". Who got weapons and ammunition from the state, and who himself was spinning as best he could.
              4. OLEG CZIGANOV
                OLEG CZIGANOV 21 February 2023 21: 21
                0
                Have you heard anything about Kovpak, so he had a division behind enemy lines, and it was not organized by the Moscow Region or the NKVD
            2. Cananecat
              Cananecat 20 February 2023 14: 53
              -10
              Quote: Tatiana
              Leaving PMC "Wagner" ON THE FRONT without the proper amount of ammunition is TREASON to the Motherland and Russia! Especially in WAR!

              I think the meaning is a little different.
              From the very beginning of the participation of "musicians" in the NWO, they showed results. And one of the reasons for their effectiveness was not only professionalism, but also the clear and well-coordinated work of all units without taking into account the limit, not only in the BC, but also in personnel. No one thought that the success of the "musicians" is associated, among other things, with the greatest losses. I am more than sure that the average loss rate of the "musicians" will be higher than that of neighboring units in the same directions.
              And now we look, the effectiveness is also connected with the fact that they are pulling the front behind them. Those. in neighboring areas, willy-nilly, they have to pull themselves up, which in turn leads to an increase in losses, which most commanders try to avoid.
              It turns out that with a shortage of ammunition, they are holding back the "musicians" so that they do not pull the front behind them ... but go in accordance with the plans for conducting the NWO developed in the General Staff.
              1. Tatyana
                Tatyana 20 February 2023 15: 29
                +8
                Quote: Canecat
                And now we look, the effectiveness is also connected with the fact that they are pulling the front behind them. Those. in neighboring areas, willy-nilly, they have to pull themselves up, which in turn leads to an increase in losses, which most commanders try to avoid.
                It turns out that with a shortage of ammunition, they are holding back the "musicians" so that they do not pull the front behind them ... but go in accordance with the plans for conducting the NWO developed in the General Staff.

                Prigozhin is not a fool not to take into account the plans for the NWO developed in the General Staff !!!
                Nalborot, someone deliberately in the Russian rear WANTS to DESTROY the exemplary RUSSIAN division of PMC "Wagner"! And this installation comes from the West from Washington, which declared Wagner PMC a TERRORISM ORGANIZATION !!!
                And this "Order" of the West against the Wagnerites, according to the Ukrainian type, is being worked out in Russia by the so-called. pro-Western "SLEEPING CELLS" in the same MO!

                The FSB must deal with this matter IMMEDIATELY!
                1. Aag
                  Aag 20 February 2023 16: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  Quote: Canecat
                  And now we look, the effectiveness is also connected with the fact that they are pulling the front behind them. Those. in neighboring areas, willy-nilly, they have to pull themselves up, which in turn leads to an increase in losses, which most commanders try to avoid.
                  It turns out that with a shortage of ammunition, they are holding back the "musicians" so that they do not pull the front behind them ... but go in accordance with the plans for conducting the NWO developed in the General Staff.

                  Prigozhin is not a fool not to take into account the plans for the NWO developed in the General Staff !!!
                  Nalborot, someone deliberately in the Russian rear WANTS to DESTROY the exemplary RUSSIAN division of PMC "Wagner"! And this installation comes from the West from Washington, which declared Wagner PMC a TERRORISM ORGANIZATION !!!
                  And this "Order" of the West against the Wagnerites, according to the Ukrainian type, is being worked out in Russia by the so-called. pro-Western "SLEEPING CELLS" in the same MO!

                  The FSB must deal with this matter IMMEDIATELY!

                  FSB is closer to the President?
                  And it's true - it looks like you "deserved" shoulder straps on the slogans ...
                  No, - I do not argue, - and I participated in this process, - for the ideas, part of the judgments, there are many of my "pluses".
                  ...Only, your promises to accelerate, to Victory will not lead! (For the goal itself, even by the Supreme, is not clearly indicated .... I would like to believe in HPP, but the experience of recent events eliminates such a component .. .).
              2. alexey sidykin
                alexey sidykin 21 February 2023 13: 55
                0
                Let's just say that we were provided with such information... We do not know exactly how and with what effectiveness Wagner actually fights.
              3. flicker
                flicker 21 February 2023 23: 34
                +2
                No one thought that the success of the "musicians" is associated, among other things, with the greatest losses
                The same thought visited.
                PMC Wagner and the Russian Defense Ministry have varying degrees of responsibility to the country.

                So the losses of PMCs and the Russian Defense Ministry are assessed differently by the population of Russia.
                Large losses of PMCs will not affect the statehood of Russia in any way.

                But the heavy losses of the Russian Defense Ministry can cause a powerful negative anti-war wave, which (if the West also helps) may well destroy Russia.
                Therefore, the Russian Armed Forces cannot attack as risky as PMC Wagner does.
                ---
                effectiveness is also connected with the fact that they pull the front behind them. Those. in neighboring areas, willy-nilly, they have to pull themselves up, which in turn leads to an increase in losses, which most commanders try to avoid.
                That's right, plus the front line is also increasing, which means that additional units are needed to strengthen and close this front line.
                ---
                In addition, after the explosion of the SP-1,2 gas pipelines, it became clear that the EU, under the full control of the United States and Ukraine, would be provided with comprehensive military assistance, which means that it became necessary to prepare for a long war.
                With prolonged hostilities, there is a need to save resources. And this is facilitated by defense and the reduction of the front line.
                For which "regroupings" followed (where forced Raisins), where tactical Kherson.
                Which ultimately makes it possible to control a shorter length of the front line with fewer personnel.
                It looks like the plan called for defensive battles.
                While PMC Wagner (he is also independent of the Moscow Region according to Prigozhin) suddenly began to actively attack.
                And the consequences of such unplanned actions
                And now we look, the effectiveness is also connected with the fact that they are pulling the front behind them. Those. in neighboring areas, willy-nilly, you have to pull yourself up
                PMC Wagner, with their successes, simply begin to increase the length of the front - thereby increasing the need for additional personnel.
                And the alignment of the front of the Russian Armed Forces
                in turn leads to increased losses, which most commanders try to avoid.

                ---
                In addition, there is probably some kind of limit on the expenditure of shells (the number of shells consumed per day should not exceed the number of shells fired per day).
                So there could be such a reason.
                ---
                In addition, the Defense Ministry cannot enter into a public discussion with Prigozhin, whose personal media activity already far exceeds the successes of PMCs at the front (and PMCs Wagner certainly have successes).
                1. spyder100
                  spyder100 22 February 2023 11: 38
                  0
                  Sitting on the defensive, "reducing the front line", endlessly "regrouping" and demonstrating "gestures of goodwill" to the enemy, while spending ammunition "on the limit" of the task of the NMD is not to fulfill - this is the path to defeat.
            3. FoBoss_VM
              FoBoss_VM 20 February 2023 15: 16
              +13
              But Putin is well aware of all this. In detail. And that means what happens? And it turns out the most unpleasant situation: the president with these saboteurs bureaucrats at the same time! How else can you explain what is happening, when one word from the president could fill all the arsenals of musicians to the brim. Don't find? Strange military operation - and that says it all
              1. kartantirambler.ru
                kartantirambler.ru 20 February 2023 15: 55
                +6
                Here, somehow, Prigogine publicly announced that there were no Russian Armed Forces (at all) within a radius of 50 km from Artemovsk. Maybe someone didn't like it?
                1. Aag
                  Aag 20 February 2023 20: 57
                  -1
                  Quote: kartantirambler.ru
                  Here, somehow, Prigogine publicly announced that there were no Russian Armed Forces (at all) within a radius of 50 km from Artemovsk. Maybe someone didn't like it?

                  Are you sure that's the way it is?
                  I highly doubt it.
                  If this is true ... Then, then, finally.
                  Otherwise, - too, - nothing good, - since "private persons" (having heavy weapons, aviation) throw such statements ... (((
                  Something is wrong in this kingdom...

                  News, or something, turn on - "calm down"?))) ((((((((.
                  1. Stas157
                    Stas157 21 February 2023 02: 51
                    +1
                    Quote: AAG
                    Are you sure that's the way it is?
                    I highly doubt

                    What's so incredible about it? You estimate the number of PMCs (30-50 thousand) per km of the front, so a section of 50 km will still seem small!
              2. Jean Baptiste
                Jean Baptiste 20 February 2023 17: 15
                +3
                I remember where the ##### all effective governors have gone, showing independence and enjoying popular support. Why go far, the drunkard Ksyusha was almost jailed. When you are sitting on a mountain and someone is climbing there, you understand that it is already so crowded on the top.
            4. SKVichyakow
              SKVichyakow 20 February 2023 16: 05
              +8
              Quote: Tatiana
              Stalin FOR THIS would either have shot ALL the saboteurs-bureaucrats and bureaucracies, or would have sent them all TO THE FRONT and to LABOR camps for ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE!!

              As Putin once said, we are not 37 years old. And now just imagine those, this is not one person who decided on this abomination, I think you can guess who went for it, regardless of the SVO, in its decisive phase. "Lampas" are rotten to such an extent, and they feel so confident and with impunity that one has only to wonder whether Putin's patience or connivance. Now you are sure that after our victory, something will change for the better in the country?
            5. flicker
              flicker 20 February 2023 16: 05
              -4
              It seems that either a "mole" is sitting in the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, or parasites-bureaucrats-traitors from the "6th column" (among officials) are sabotaging this matter!
              Either Prigogine is casting a shadow on the wattle fence.
              And remember, PMC Wagner ≠ Prigozhin.
            6. bambr731
              bambr731 20 February 2023 20: 01
              +3
              I read and I immediately remember General Samsonov and how his offensive was "supported" by General Rennenkampf (World War I)
            7. midivan
              midivan 20 February 2023 21: 02
              +2
              [/ quote] It seems that in the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces either a "mole" is sitting, or parasites-bureaucrats-traitors from the "6th column" (among officials) are sabotaging this matter! [quote]
              There is always a way out, Prinozhin just needs to deliver an ultimatum to MO - either we get what we need, or we turn off and leave for "Africa" ​​to do what we were created for, and you are here as you want and fight even without cartridges. Normally, apparently at the top they don’t understand.
            8. Anyuta Glorious
              Anyuta Glorious 21 February 2023 18: 50
              0
              So it’s Stalin, and here ... sheer conspiracy
          2. hrych
            hrych 20 February 2023 14: 15
            +5
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            This is what he said..

            Do you need Tzipi Livni? wassat I like the version of the Ukrainian side more, saying that these statements are false, in order to lure the boys into the cauldron. And they have experience, because according to ... Mossad, the boys were badly beaten, lured out of the cities. Therefore, statements by Prigozhin and Kadyrov should be feared. How the last Lapin scolded, and then he was removed and promoted. And Kadyrov laughs, he took part in the operation...
          3. Aag
            Aag 20 February 2023 14: 59
            -4
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            Quote: IvanIvanov
            Moreover, there are enough shells in the warehouses, the Russian industry produces a very large amount of ammunition, having managed to establish their production. They just don't reach the PMC units.

            This is what he said...

            Judging by the minuses: and how are you up to the gene. l-ta on "VO" "grew up" ?!))). Apparently, even in those days when common sense here (in "VO"), erudition was valued higher than ... "leavened patriotism", "commitment to the party line" (I wanted to quote the word "party" twice: just like D. Kulikov on Vesti FM drowns for the current system (!), ... keeping silent about the extirpation of the Azov people ...).
            hi
          4. The comment was deleted.
          5. Just_Kvasha
            Just_Kvasha 20 February 2023 18: 38
            0
            And who did you ask the question? Whose answer will suit you, and what?
        2. ivan1979nkl
          ivan1979nkl 20 February 2023 14: 06
          +8
          Moreover, there are enough shells in the warehouses

          wants to say that they are pressing the Wagners
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. bayard
            bayard 20 February 2023 18: 56
            +1
            Quote from ivan1979nkl
            wants to say that they are pressing the Wagners

            He wants to emphasize the conflict between Wagner and the Moscow Region ... and meanwhile the "fog of war" is gathering.
        3. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 20 February 2023 14: 12
          0
          Quote: IvanIvanov
          Moreover, there are enough shells in the warehouses, the Russian industry produces a very large amount of ammunition, having managed to establish their production. They just don't reach the PMC units.

          What can I say ... Let's remember Krylov's grandfather.
          When there is no agreement in the comrades,
          In the mood their business will not go,
          And it will not work out of him, only flour.
          Once a Swan, Cancer and Pike.
          They took it with luggage
          And together the three all harnessed to him;
          They climb out of the skin, but the cart is still no go!
          Luggage would seem easy for them:
          Yes the swan is breaking into the clouds
          Cancer backs away, and Pike pulls into the water.
          Who is to blame among them, who is right, is not for us to judge;
          Yes, it's still there now.
          IA Krylov. Fables.
          Instead of smearing tears and snot in the media, Prigogine could go to the Supreme, since he cares so much about saving the lives of his soldiers.
        4. vladimirvn
          vladimirvn 20 February 2023 14: 22
          0
          It looks like there are really not enough shells. At least that's what they wrote about missiles. (VO. "Why are strikes on Ukrainian energy infrastructure facilities meaningless?") https://topwar.ru/211166-pochemu-rossijskie-udary-po-obektam-infrastruktury-ukrainy-lisheny-smysla.html
          1. alexey sidykin
            alexey sidykin 21 February 2023 13: 59
            0
            Quote: vladimirvn
            It looks like there are really not enough shells. At least that's what they wrote about missiles. (VO. "Why are strikes on Ukrainian energy infrastructure facilities meaningless?") https://topwar.ru/211166-pochemu-rossijskie-udary-po-obektam-infrastruktury-ukrainy-lisheny-smysla.html

            Dill will not let you lie ... according to their information, we ran out of missiles back in March last year.
        5. skeptic
          skeptic 20 February 2023 14: 54
          +4
          Quote: IvanIvanov
          They just don't reach the PMC units.

          Apparently the CIA instructed the rear rats from (you know where) to overwhelm the offensive. And then everything is somehow, not according to NATO, it starts to work out. So the saboteurs have their own names and positions, but apparently the rust is higher.
          ps "Wagner" will be forced to retreat... It's a pity you can't force the return of the territories of those with their children, who, because of the Chinodral show-offs, put the lives of dying soldiers into nothing.
        6. vlad106
          vlad106 21 February 2023 23: 48
          0
          Quote: IvanIvanov
          Moreover, there are enough shells in the warehouses,


          Despite all efforts, the issue of the supply of ammunition to Wagner PMC has not been resolved.


          The bastards of the Trotskyists-arrogant Saxons at the top are slowing down and harming the country!
          Really need SMERSH and Executions of enemies
      2. newtc7
        newtc7 20 February 2023 14: 04
        +13
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        The question is, are there enough shells in field warehouses today? And if they are not enough for everyone, then it is logical that first of all they are received by parts of the Moscow Region.


        Yes, that's not the point. The fact is that someone's pride is so great that he absolutely does not care about people's lives. As well as winning in general, do not care only for your reputation, which is already nowhere lower.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Plover
        Plover 20 February 2023 14: 42
        +3
        Then you need to remove PMCs from the front. There is one of two things - either this is such a "game" and the support is actually going well (this should not be ruled out either, it could be misinformation), or this is an attempt to influence Prigozhin, which is dirty and petty for the army. With regards to security, shells should be received by those who are most effective. Now it is, alas, Wagner.
      5. APASUS
        APASUS 20 February 2023 15: 30
        +5
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        The question is, are there enough shells in field warehouses today? And if they are not enough for everyone, then it is logical that first of all they are received by parts of the Moscow Region.

        The answer to your question Prigogine in the text:
        that under Surovikin, PMCs had no problems with shells
        1. Aag
          Aag 20 February 2023 17: 39
          -2
          Quote: APASUS
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          The question is, are there enough shells in field warehouses today? And if they are not enough for everyone, then it is logical that first of all they are received by parts of the Moscow Region.

          The answer to your question Prigogine in the text:
          that under Surovikin, PMCs had no problems with shells

          Quote: APASUS
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          The question is, are there enough shells in field warehouses today? And if they are not enough for everyone, then it is logical that first of all they are received by parts of the Moscow Region.

          The answer to your question Prigogine in the text:
          that under Surovikin, PMCs had no problems with shells

          Not an indicator at all.
          The times, - tactically different, - strategically, economically, - politically, - apparently, - NOT THESE at all ...
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 21 February 2023 10: 22
            +1
            Quote: AAG
            Not an indicator at all.
            The times, - tactically different, - strategically, economically, - politically, - apparently, - NOT THESE at all ...

            Either there are shells, or no one has them. Everything else is lyrics.
            1. your1970
              your1970 21 February 2023 13: 04
              0
              Quote: APASUS
              Quote: AAG
              Not an indicator at all.
              The times, - tactically different, - strategically, economically, - politically, - apparently, - NOT THESE at all ...

              Either there are shells, or no one has them. Everything else is lyrics.

              It also happens very easily.
              Do you remember the Soviet film "Battalions Ask for Fire" (based on real facts and almost documentary)?
              The battalions on the bridgehead were abandoned without fire support. And for some reason, no one threw tantrums - that the battalions ruined ...
              All eyes were taken away - "Well, for a good cause, they distracted ..."
      6. svoroponov
        svoroponov 21 February 2023 13: 07
        0
        They, PMCs, are allocated to subdivisions according to limits like everyone else, but they simply have an expense much higher than these limits. The lack of truth is partially compensated by the artillery units of the Russian Armed Forces for interaction .. But still not enough. We urgently need to revise the limits. Well, there are problems with transportation. Both by transport and by places of delivery. Yes, and first of all they are supplied with cartridges and other "goods" for the soldiers of the advanced units and evacuation from the line, which also takes a lot of transport
      7. fif21
        fif21 22 February 2023 03: 51
        0
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        The question is, are there enough shells in field warehouses today? AND

        Aaron, there are enough shells, but the desire to make money on private traders is very great. The Putin regime is a symbiosis of money-hungry officials and business. hi
    2. opposite28
      opposite28 21 February 2023 20: 23
      0
      Maybe something is being prepared in Transnistria?! what
  2. voice of reason
    voice of reason 20 February 2023 13: 36
    +3
    Surovikin, was a combat officer. He himself participated in the storming of Grozny once. In Syria, he interacted with the "Wagners" ...
    1. your vsr 66-67
      your vsr 66-67 20 February 2023 13: 43
      +3
      Quote: voice of reason
      Surovikin, was a combat officer. He himself participated in the storming of Grozny once. In Syria, he interacted with the "Wagners" ...

      Why was? What, is he dead?
      1. fif21
        fif21 22 February 2023 03: 52
        0
        Quote: your vsr 66-67
        Why was? What, is he dead?

        laughing
    2. skeptic
      skeptic 20 February 2023 15: 08
      +3
      Quote: voice of reason
      Surovikin, was a combat officer. He himself participated in the storming of Grozny once. In Syria, he interacted with the "Wagners" ...

      It's not about Surovikin, it's just that Prigogine didn't give the "stars of heroes", to attribute for free to bureaucrats, for Artyomovsk - that's the result. But these ... for compromising the army, no one will ever attract.
    3. svoroponov
      svoroponov 21 February 2023 13: 17
      -1
      Previously, Wagner, under Surovikin, had no problems, since the PMC worked in a narrow direction. Now the coverage in areas is much larger, the number of those involved has also increased, and, accordingly, more requests have gone.
  3. Rusik.S
    Rusik.S 20 February 2023 13: 39
    +29
    Cause? Are they afraid that the Wagnerites will earn too much authority? So late, thanks to "smart" actions, the authority of the RF Ministry of Defense has already fallen below the plinth.
    1. forty-eighth
      forty-eighth 20 February 2023 13: 49
      -5
      And what kind of authority, sorry?
      Well, MO is better at PR, that's a fact.
      And judging by the realities, everything is within the normal range.
      The Ministry of Defense is currently moving quite adequately in the Svatov area, without making Yaroslavna cry in the media. What is worse than the Wagnerians?
      1. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 20 February 2023 14: 03
        +19
        And what kind of authority, sorry?

        The authority of the only assault infantry that can successfully attack, overcoming the prepared defenses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It is expensive (in every sense). Well, maybe the Donetsk Marines can still do well. The assault troops lack heavy weapons, although they fight well.
        Well, MO is better at PR, that's a fact.

        It's just that easy. PR activities and media work of the MOD, through the efforts of you know who, has a strictly negative effect. However, if only PR ... although it is also significant. A whole department that completely failed its work and shows the reference samples "how not to" and "how not to."
        And judging by the realities, everything is within the normal range.

        And no one demands the exploits of Hercules - what is needed is normal, effective combat work.
        The Ministry of Defense is currently moving quite decently in the Svatov area

        Tyranny in the forests against the Ukrainian SRW in a secondary direction 200 meters there - 150 back, well, this is such a result. Yes, and it is possible because Bakhmut draws Ukrainian reserves to himself.
        What is worse than the Wagnerians?

        Compare Soledar and recent Ugledar. Planning, order of forces and results. It becomes obvious "the worse".
        1. dmi.pris1
          dmi.pris1 20 February 2023 14: 09
          +15
          I’ll say for myself, I believe Prigozhin’s words more than MO. But there seems to be some kind of fuss. If Prigozhin tells the truth about this, then it’s “like a swan, cancer and pike.” With an appropriate ending
          1. fif21
            fif21 22 February 2023 03: 58
            0
            Quote from: dmi.pris1
            But here it seems to be some kind of fuss.

            That's right, undercover fuss between the reindeer herder and the workers of the war.
            As it is, some private traders are more effective than a thoroughly corrupt state structure. hi
        2. flicker
          flicker 20 February 2023 16: 11
          -2
          Well, maybe the Donetsk ones can
          Donetsk can not. Khodakovsky, at the beginning of the NMD, said that they say we can defend ourselves, but we can’t attack yet.
      2. skeptic
        skeptic 20 February 2023 15: 12
        +1
        Quote: forty-eighth
        What is worse than the Wagnerians?

        You can ask the suppliers this.
    2. Leader_Barmaleev
      Leader_Barmaleev 20 February 2023 13: 57
      +18
      Today, Prigozhin has such authority that allows him to have presidential ambitions, and military successes allow him to qualify for the post of Minister of Defense. And both of these ambitions are like a Faberge sickle to many. So I won’t be surprised at reports about the organization of assassination attempts on Prigozhin with this side of the front.
      PS If Yevgeny Prigozhin runs for president, I will vote for him.
      1. forty-eighth
        forty-eighth 20 February 2023 14: 06
        -5
        I am not a fan of the performances that the Arbat Military District puts on for us. But he tends to operate with facts, not emotions.
        The assets of the successes of our army include Melitopol, New Kakhovka, Berdyansk, Mariupol, the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant with Energodar. Do you think that Soledar surpassed all this?
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 20 February 2023 14: 49
          +20
          Quote: forty-eighth
          inclined to operate with facts, not emotions.
          The asset of the success of our army is Melitopol, Novaya Kakhovka, Berdyansk, Mariupol, Zaporozhye NPP with Energodar. Do you think that Soledar surpassed all this?

          All that was left of the effect of the first weeks of the sudden strike.

          It can be said that the Ministry of Defense did not take advantage of the initial shock of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the blitzkrieg did not work out. But it turned out to transfer the initiative to their Kyiv partners, to carry out grain deals, regroupings and gestures of goodwill. They also gave the Ukrainians a chance to calmly mobilize and arrange the supply of Western weapons. call it success the tongue does not turn.
          1. forty-eighth
            forty-eighth 20 February 2023 15: 16
            +2
            Mariupol, Severodonetsk and Lisichansk, which I didn't mention initially, are these also the first weeks of a sudden blow? Was it sudden?
            In any case, I am not a supporter of devaluing the exploits of our soldiers and BARS volunteers just because there was a misunderstanding and misunderstanding among the boyars at the top
        2. fif21
          fif21 22 February 2023 04: 03
          0
          Quote: forty-eighth
          Do you think that Soledar surpassed all this?

          I believe that the flight from near Kyiv, the surrender of Kherson and Izyum surpassed everything that was possible! We do not have military commanders of the Zhukov level. There are assholes who know how to please the authorities. hi
      2. ivan1979nkl
        ivan1979nkl 20 February 2023 14: 12
        +16
        If Yevgeny Prigozhin runs for president

        it seems that the silence mode is on - on program 60 some military commander choked on his tongue, not knowing how to say about the Wagners without naming the word Wagner. Looked pretty funny
      3. Olga
        Olga 20 February 2023 14: 31
        +4
        Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
        Today, Prigozhin has such authority that allows him to have presidential ambitions, and military successes allow him to qualify for the post of Minister of Defense. And both of these ambitions are like a Faberge sickle to many. So I won’t be surprised at reports about the organization of assassination attempts on Prigozhin from this side of the front.
        PS If Yevgeny Prigozhin runs for president, I will vote for him

        I can only applaud Prigozhin as the curator of the Orchestra. I hope that all this fuss is to knock down the enemy, nothing more. In any case, I would not like to think badly about him now.

        In general, if you have not watched the movie "No Way Back", I recommend to see it.
        There is an example of what it can lead to when he takes the power of a warrior into his own hands, even if he is a good warrior and a worthy person. Or reconsider the film "State Border". Each d / be "in its" place, then it will be useful.
      4. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 20 February 2023 14: 31
        +14
        Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
        Today, Prigogine has such authority,

        Well, what? The fact that he is the only one of the commanders of the SVO who very often appears in the media, unlike other commanders of regiments, brigades, divisions, does not yet speak of his awesome authority.
        I treat him with respect, but no more than other, unknown to us commanders.
        Remember, at the beginning of the SVO, they only said - Kadyrov, Kadyrovites, oh Kadyrovites, oh Kadyrovites. Now they've subsided. But it appeared - Prigozhin, Wagnerites, oh Wagnerians, oh Wagnerians. I bow to their heroism, but who said that the 1st and 2nd army corps of the LDNR, and now the corps of the Russian army, fight worse? Are they worse because their commanders do not give interviews, do not appear in YouTube videos, do not have their own pages in Telegram? So it turns out.
        And yes, I am outraged that the Wagnerites are deprived of ammunition.
        I think that the guilty person, in whatever ranks he may be, should be demoted and a private in the trenches.
        1. Aag
          Aag 20 February 2023 15: 22
          0
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
          Today, Prigogine has such authority,

          Well, what? The fact that he is the only one of the commanders of the SVO who very often appears in the media, unlike other commanders of regiments, brigades, divisions, does not yet speak of his awesome authority.
          I treat him with respect, but no more than other, unknown to us commanders.
          Remember, at the beginning of the SVO, they only said - Kadyrov, Kadyrovites, oh Kadyrovites, oh Kadyrovites. Now they've subsided. But it appeared - Prigozhin, Wagnerites, oh Wagnerians, oh Wagnerians. I bow to their heroism, but who said that the 1st and 2nd army corps of the LDNR, and now the corps of the Russian army, fight worse? Are they worse because their commanders do not give interviews, do not appear in YouTube videos, do not have their own pages in Telegram? So it turns out.
          And yes, I am outraged that the Wagnerites are deprived of ammunition.
          I think that the guilty person, in whatever ranks he may be, should be demoted and a private in the trenches.

          Prigogine, with all his services to the Russian Federation, a separate category of citizens (it is not customary to remember about sins today), gained respect and authority from a significant part of fellow citizens. Deservedly - undeservedly - the topic of a separate, and, it seems, no longer safe discussion. And, here is the fact that the increased "rating" of Prigozhin "hooked" R. Kadyrov (which was predictable) ... - this, IMHO, does not bode well. Neither the l / s of both formations, nor the Country, nor, even more so, its peoples in the future.
          Something reminds me of the times of the principalities in ancient Rus' ...
          hi
        2. skeptic
          skeptic 20 February 2023 15: 24
          +3
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          Remember, at the beginning of the CVO, they only said - Kadyrov, Kadyrovites, oh Kadyrovites, oh Kadyrovites. Now subsided

          Kadyrov, like Prigogine, "had the audacity" to criticize the bureaucrats - that's the result.
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          I think that the guilty person, in whatever ranks he may be, should be demoted and a private in the trenches.

          Who will degrade themselves???
      5. Aag
        Aag 20 February 2023 17: 43
        0
        Quote: Leader_Barmaleev
        Today, Prigozhin has such authority that allows him to have presidential ambitions, and military successes allow him to qualify for the post of Minister of Defense. And both of these ambitions are like a Faberge sickle to many. So I won’t be surprised at reports about the organization of assassination attempts on Prigozhin with this side of the front.
        PS If Yevgeny Prigozhin runs for president, I will vote for him.

        Just please, "do not forget" This post of yours, if, all of a sudden, all sorts of PMCs with different ambitions start to "butt" under the protectorate of oligarchs raised with the money of the people. Yeah?
    3. ARIONkrsk
      ARIONkrsk 20 February 2023 14: 07
      +10
      Quote: Rusik.S
      Cause? Are they afraid that the Wagnerites will earn too much authority? So late, thanks to "smart" actions, the authority of the RF Ministry of Defense has already fallen below the plinth.

      Not so long ago I wrote that the Wagners would be crushed for the language of Prigogine, then he threatened the liberals and voila, here it is.
      1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
        GELEZNII_KAPUT 20 February 2023 15: 21
        +1
        Quote from ARIONkrsk
        Not so long ago I wrote that the Wagners would be crushed for the language of Prigogine, then he threatened the liberals and voila, here it is.

        You know, maybe I'm wrong of course, but in my opinion this video is not about ammunition ...
    4. Aag
      Aag 20 February 2023 19: 21
      0
      Quote: Rusik.S
      Cause? Are they afraid that the Wagnerites will earn too much authority? So late, thanks to "smart" actions, the authority of the RF Ministry of Defense has already fallen below the plinth.

      Hmmm ... And what exactly did you pounce on MO? (Nah, - I would also have a number of unpleasant questions for him ...
      If specific goals and objectives would be indicated!!!).
      I don’t dispute the authority of the Wagnerites, in tactical terms, in the least ... It’s just not clear what will happen when they declare themselves strategically, politically (Kadyrov has already seen a competitor in this direction! ..). Can you predict the consequences?
      I, - with difficulty ... But all the options ... let's say, - sad ...
      I already wrote even in this thread - remember (!) - how they applauded Gorbachev's innovations (was there no popular reverence?), how Yeltsin was brought to the "throne" ?.
      ... Now, here, many are proposing here to bring the Armed Forces to "market relations" ...
      "The market will regulate everything..." Only - in whose favor?
      In the one - who has the dough more !!!
      Passed ... On the example of the economy ... Not enough ?!
    5. svoroponov
      svoroponov 21 February 2023 13: 31
      0
      Nobody is afraid of anything. The grouping follows the orders of the General Staff and also works under the guidance of the direction commander.
      They just have high efficiency and increased consumption of all kinds of ammo and ammunition. Well, once again - accordingly, there are problems in transport and logistics. Drivers often complain that they are sent to one point and there are several of them with similar names in the area. They ask for an escort from the unit. After all, electronic guidebooks often do not work and the road network is very dense. You can easily drive in the wrong place (many of our prisoners are drivers and those whom they transported). And this is the time. Yes, there are problems with naming. Which one to use - new Ukrainian or former.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Volunteer Marek
    Volunteer Marek 20 February 2023 13: 40
    +13
    And why does the command need a successful example of how to fight? Here they suffocate a little. Nothing surprising.
  6. lubesky
    lubesky 20 February 2023 13: 41
    +26
    It is important to understand that the frankly anti-state position of the Russian customs last year, which essentially blocked the delivery of humanitarian aid for a ribbon, has not been condemned or investigated. Like many other issues of "alignment" and others are also not investigated. Is it any wonder that guys from PMCs are now under the pressure of someone?

    In general, I find many parallels between my own and the situation of the empire in WWI, especially in the period before the February Revolution. Once again I am convinced that the Russian Empire would simply not be able to win the Second World War and only the Bolshevik system could win SUCH A VICTORY!
    1. topol717
      topol717 20 February 2023 13: 53
      -4
      Quote: lubesky
      Like many other issues of "alignment" and others are also not investigated. Is it any wonder that guys from PMCs are now under the pressure of someone?

      There are rules that no one will break, because tomorrow the prosecutor will come running and they will put you in prison for issuing shells, or for letting something through the customs border.
      And do not pull the owl on the globe. Everyone has always suffered from bureaucracy. But no one will break the prescribed rules either, just because Wagner is there.
      1. lubesky
        lubesky 20 February 2023 14: 03
        +20
        Quote from: topol717
        Everyone has always suffered from bureaucracy

        I know a country in which during the war the bureaucracy was called sabotage and red tape, put up against the wall
        1. topol717
          topol717 20 February 2023 14: 15
          -20
          Quote: lubesky
          I know a country in which during the war the bureaucracy was called sabotage and red tape, put up against the wall

          And how many people in that country died in the camps?
          here, either everyone will follow the rules, or how they will trade in weapons in Ukraine. because there will always be "good" businessmen. You have to choose from 2 evils.
          1. lubesky
            lubesky 20 February 2023 14: 26
            +11
            Quote from: topol717
            And how many people in that country died in the camps?

            Clearly, another liberal and fan of Solganitsyn. Continuation of the correspondence is inappropriate.

            To the works of the Rezun-traitor and Solganitsyn, I advise you to additionally familiarize yourself with the materials of Nurberg, what fate was prepared for our people - physical liquidation. But according to people like you - it's different wassat
          2. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 20 February 2023 14: 35
            +11
            Quote from: topol717
            And how many people in that country died in the camps?

            Well, about this at one time, Naina Yeltsin brainwashed us.
            1. lubesky
              lubesky 20 February 2023 14: 42
              +4
              Quote: tihonmarine
              Well, about this at one time, Naina Yeltsin brainwashed us

              Here you go, colleague. And Raisa Maksimovna probably ate all the baldness to her husband in the kitchen so that he would recognize the incredible cruelty of Katyn and worry about the Poles, and this is with tens of millions of compatriots still alive!
        2. your1970
          your1970 21 February 2023 13: 15
          0
          Quote: lubesky
          Quote from: topol717
          Everyone has always suffered from bureaucracy

          I know a country in which during the war the bureaucracy was called sabotage and red tape, put up against the wall

          And apparently Voroshilov / Kulik / NGSH Zhukov / Mekhlis / Oktyabrsky / Zhigarev / Khrushchev / and a bunch of mediocrity, bureaucrats and bureaucrats - they put them against the wall or hung them under the drumbeat or chopped their heads ???
          Nooo???
          Strange ....
          There are definitely a couple of dozen meaninglessly dead behind each of them ....
          At the beginning of the Second World War, there were about 1500 generals in the Red Army. Shot - total 56
      2. GELEZNII_KAPUT
        GELEZNII_KAPUT 20 February 2023 15: 31
        0
        Quote from: topol717
        because tomorrow the prosecutor will come running, and they will put you in prison for issuing shells

        [media=https://t.me/vladlentatarsky/19429] This is the answer to your statement. This is the full version of Prigogine's speech, MP3 does not skip.
    2. Shamil88
      Shamil88 20 February 2023 14: 02
      +19
      Therefore, they hate the USSR, knowing that they are just hucksters, ready to sell their own mother, they destroyed the Russian Empire and came to power at the end of the USSR. They are not able to create, hucksters and parasites
    3. Bayun
      Bayun 20 February 2023 15: 30
      +4
      People-U = "Bolsheviks in embroidered shirts".

      Meanwhile, in Rus', an infinitely temporary government without meanings, strategy and goals continues to liberally-humanistically "reign lying on its side" ...
    4. svoroponov
      svoroponov 21 February 2023 13: 42
      0
      Customs is a civil service that works according to the law. They skip the list of what you can carry, approved from above. In addition, can you guarantee that a particular product is imported specifically for those persons who are declared and not for terror? And yet - why is this or that product that would not have been let through at the border and which was needed, suddenly, once, and crossed it? its legitimacy is for them, or accompanied by those who were taking to the right place.
      And you don’t admit that the appearance of the ban and its voicing were only for other people’s ears? I can say that everything that was bought and assembled for the LDNR in Russia turned out to be there.
  7. Vladimir M
    Vladimir M 20 February 2023 13: 42
    +24
    Is Prigozhin hinting at the reindeer breeder? It looks like we have "swan, cancer and pike" at the top
    1. arthh
      arthh 20 February 2023 13: 46
      +21
      In full appeal, he said to those whose daughters are resting in Dubai
    2. Rusik.S
      Rusik.S 20 February 2023 13: 47
      +2
      Rather, ram, ram and ram (The text of your comment is too short and, according to the site administration, does not contain useful information.)
    3. topol717
      topol717 20 February 2023 13: 56
      -2
      Quote: Vladimir M
      It looks like we have "swan, cancer and pike" at the top

      There is the usual political fuss. It has always been so everywhere. so always and everywhere will be. It is impossible to climb the Olympus of power without participating in political tug-of-war.
    4. newtc7
      newtc7 20 February 2023 14: 01
      +11
      Quote: Vladimir M
      Is Prigozhin hinting at the reindeer breeder? It looks like we have "swan, cancer and pike" at the top


      Yes, he directly says that this is Shoigu. A man is out of place: give him a tree and a knife, let him cut out figures and participate in Moscow exhibitions.
      1. Vladimir M
        Vladimir M 20 February 2023 14: 06
        +5
        Then I do not understand the "calm" of GDP. He must understand that with such an environment, that the life of himself and his loved ones depends on the results of the SVO, that the European people will arrange an execution for him and his loved ones, worse than the one that Gaddafi arranged.
        1. Nick2591
          Nick2591 20 February 2023 20: 23
          +2
          Our guarantor has everything around in the best possible way. So the bug-eyed one reports to him. And it’s weak to go to the front yourself
          1. svoroponov
            svoroponov 21 February 2023 13: 50
            0
            Yes, like he was there and even held a meeting. Yes, he may have been there many times, but who will report to you? The presence of the president at such a time is a state secret. And you will never know where he was unless there is a decision from him to voice it.
        2. svoroponov
          svoroponov 21 February 2023 13: 55
          0
          You people are strange. Yes, Prigozhin is also from the same cauldron as Putin and Shoigu, and they see each other quite often. Perhaps, based on some policy goals, they even work out what and how to voice and what to convey to the press.

          By the way, don’t you think that with the issue of lack of ammunition for artillery, Prigozhin and the leadership simply want to attract enemy forces to those areas where Wagner PMC is working successfully to more successfully grave the enemy? There is and will be deception of the enemy!
    5. The comment was deleted.
  8. Aleksey777
    Aleksey777 20 February 2023 13: 42
    +20
    You involuntarily recall Stalin's grandfather. Enemies of the people and English spies. Maybe somewhere he was right then. At least partially.
    1. lubesky
      lubesky 20 February 2023 13: 47
      +12
      Quote: Aleksey777
      Maybe somewhere he was right then

      The summer campaign of the 41st showed that not only was he right, but he didn’t finish it either!
      1. albert
        albert 20 February 2023 16: 58
        +2
        Quote: lubesky
        The summer campaign of the 41st showed that not only was he right, but he didn’t finish it either!

        Verno. Pavlov and his company were shot for a reason.
    2. RoTTor
      RoTTor 20 February 2023 14: 20
      -7
      Who is Prigogine, and by what right does some murky and illegal armed formation shake the rights?
    3. Fluk54
      Fluk54 20 February 2023 14: 57
      +4
      According to the memoirs of the US Ambassador, who was with us at that time (unfortunately, I can’t say offhand), the USSR was the only country participating in the war where there was no 5th column.
      1. your1970
        your1970 21 February 2023 13: 19
        0
        Quote: Fluk54
        According to the memoirs of the US Ambassador, who was with us at that time (unfortunately, I can’t say offhand), the USSR was the only country participating in the war where there was no 5th column.

        Well the US Ambassador blew off as usual...
        Bandera, forest brothers and repressed peoples (except for the Volga Germans !!!!), as it were, are hinting - there was also quite a massive one ....
  9. Gnefredov
    Gnefredov 20 February 2023 13: 43
    +4
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    But are there enough shells in field warehouses today?


    Enough. He says (above in the text of the article): "... Moreover, there are enough shells in the warehouses, ..... They just don't reach the PMC units..."
  10. tihon4uk
    tihon4uk 20 February 2023 13: 47
    +11
    The envious plywood marshal, who in 10 years could only come up with tank biathlon, cannot accept that his army is practically useless, and someone destroys the enemy every day without his knowledge.
    1. Fluk54
      Fluk54 20 February 2023 15: 43
      +2
      Well, as the Minister of Defense, he performs two functions - 1. Depicts a wise talking head, using the accumulated reputation when he commanded the Ministry of Emergency Situations. 2. Is in charge of the President for Min. defense. Therefore, Prigozhin is not a competitor to him in influencing Putin. And Putin is no stranger to handing over his own - he gave Luzhkov to Medvedev.
  11. Leshak
    Leshak 20 February 2023 13: 48
    +11
    Idiocy at its finest. People do hard work and do it well, so don't bother them! This looks like sabotage. And at the highest level. VFU mattresses are more often supplied by shells than our MO to the Wagnerites.
  12. Sailor
    Sailor 20 February 2023 13: 48
    +9
    There are no words. Some obscene emotions. At a time like this, to mess with our soldiers on the first line ...
  13. Ivan Ivanov
    Ivan Ivanov 20 February 2023 13: 50
    +6
    I can’t solve this problem, despite my acquaintances, connections, etc., everything gets stuck in the military bureaucracy

    It's time to create problems for a combat-ready unit, because we are standing on the border with Poland, and they are rushing to Brussels, there is no other way to stop them.

    that under Surovikin, PMCs had no problems with shells, and today someone is sitting in large offices, bending their fingers and deciding whether to issue ammunition or not.

    Yes, the rearrangements and explanations seemed strange, at first allegedly "no one commanded the NMD", then the "responsible" appeared, then the Defense Ministry suddenly reconnected.
  14. Non-fighter
    Non-fighter 20 February 2023 13: 53
    +7
    In general, the bureaucracy is an exact science, and it is possible to track who is delaying the consideration of applications and / or letting them go around in search of permission and a visa.
    1. kamakama
      kamakama 20 February 2023 14: 58
      +3
      The fact that there is accuracy does not mean that there is efficiency. My first wife worked in one of the state supervision bodies. By the way, according to the law, it was possible to work there only with original projects. Consideration period 3 months OFFICIALLY, total of such bodies 7 = total 21 months of consideration of the project of intervention in the water protection zone. And this is if there are no errors, and if there are, then start again. And the project up to watering the potato field from the nearest river
      1. Al manah
        Al manah 20 February 2023 15: 50
        0
        The bureaucracy is looking for ways to cover their own seats and shifting possible responsibility to others, so the number of these fifth points in the offices is steadily growing, and the time for consideration is correspondingly increasing.
        1. your1970
          your1970 21 February 2023 13: 24
          0
          Quote: Al Manah
          is steadily growing, and the time for consideration is correspondingly increasing.

          Lagging behind life, read 248fz ..
          Quote: kamakama
          intervention in the water protection zone. And this is if there are no errors, and if there are, then start again. And the project up to watering the potato field from the nearest river

          That is, you don’t know what kind of hysteria the local population throws in this case - “Yes, they are watering the bastards with herbicides and poisoning the river with fertilizers !!!!!!” ???
          Ask your wife - she will not lie to you, this is very common in the country
          1. kamakama
            kamakama 21 February 2023 16: 05
            0
            I do not dispute that abuse is present. However, 2 points are important - 1) the river can be poisoned both according to the project and without it. The issue is local control. 2) The review period of almost 2 years puts an end to 95% of any activity, which is extremely detrimental to the economy of the region
  15. gromit
    gromit 20 February 2023 13: 53
    -8
    You can build some wild theories that someone unnamed, in some unknown offices, was offended and therefore does not give shells and the people joyfully eat this shit and ask for more.

    And if you say that there are stupidly not enough shells, and the guns wear out and this is not firewood, it is not so easy to increase the output dozens of times, then this is liberal propaganda.

    The juice itself is to declare at the end that we would have all the enemies of one left, but we were betrayed.
    Plan fire, always rolls.
    1. newtc7
      newtc7 20 February 2023 13: 59
      +11
      Quote from Gromit
      You can build some wild theories that someone unnamed, in some unknown offices, was offended and therefore does not give shells and the people joyfully eat this shit and ask for more.

      And if you say that there are stupidly not enough shells, and the guns wear out and this is not firewood, it is not so easy to increase the output dozens of times, then this is liberal propaganda.

      The juice itself is to declare at the end that we would have all the enemies of one left, but we were betrayed.
      Plan fire, always rolls.


      You don't seem to be very smart if you don't understand what kind of person is the cause of Wagner's shell hunger. Hint - one Tuvan lover of tiles and parquet.
      1. gromit
        gromit 20 February 2023 14: 25
        +2
        Hint it to your highly intelligent supporters.
        About terrible conspiracies, insidious Shoigu, flat earth and reptilians)
        It is much more interesting to believe in them.

        And I will remain a supporter of the theory of cheap show-offs, corruption, eyewash, backwardness and the Soviet legacy that has been completely consumed over 30 years.
        1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
          GELEZNII_KAPUT 20 February 2023 15: 53
          +2
          Quote from Gromit
          Hint it to your highly intelligent supporters.
          About terrible conspiracies, insidious Shoigu, flat earth and reptilians)
          It is much more interesting to believe in them.

          And I will remain a supporter of the theory of cheap show-offs, corruption, eyewash, backwardness and the Soviet legacy that has been completely consumed over 30 years.

          One does not exclude the other.
  16. Million
    Million 20 February 2023 13: 54
    +9
    Until the Moscow generals are sent to the trenches, nothing will change
  17. newtc7
    newtc7 20 February 2023 13: 57
    +10
    It is clear, after all, who puts a spoke in Wagner's wheels. The same one who failed almost the entire CBO. But he's untouchable
  18. Natalya Yurievna
    Natalya Yurievna 20 February 2023 13: 59
    +7
    And how do the Americans recognize PMC "Wagner" as a terrorist organization and sabotage the supply of weapons to the Wagners?
  19. Setavr
    Setavr 20 February 2023 14: 01
    +8
    Pdts, not an army, but a kindergarten, bt!
    Why are such generals needed if they cannot decide at their level whether to take responsibility? Monkeys, btw.
    Russia is mired in Khokhlism.
  20. flicker
    flicker 20 February 2023 14: 02
    -12
    Applications are written every day, submitted according to the regulations, and then they simply disappear into the depths of the military department.
    What if someone did NOT submit an application (for what purpose did they NOT submit it?), and then they begin to say that
    today someone sits in large offices, bending their fingers and deciding whether to issue ammunition or not. And at this time, at the front, without shells, boys are dying, who are also defending their homeland, just as part of another unit.


    Or maybe there was just no application?

    No application, no shells. For that, you can blame those who are "in large offices."
    Raise a negative wave against the Defense Ministry, paralyze the work of the Defense Ministry, fail the SVO, undermine confidence in Putin, seize power in 2024 and merge with the Americans?
    1. Vladimir80
      Vladimir80 20 February 2023 14: 07
      +3
      and merge to the Americans

      and I thought we were already, that ... apparently there is where to move into the "multicolor-tolerant" devilry ...
      1. flicker
        flicker 20 February 2023 15: 05
        -6
        and I thought we were already, that ... apparently there is where to move into the "multicolor-tolerant" devilry ..
        What did you want to say?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  21. Puzoter
    Puzoter 20 February 2023 14: 03
    +12
    The general staff of the competitor got scared? Sabotage?
    1. DefenderofTruth
      DefenderofTruth 20 February 2023 14: 16
      +4
      Betrayal all around, in all authorities of the Russian Federation
    2. Fluk54
      Fluk54 20 February 2023 15: 45
      +1
      It’s just a childish insult - they say, they didn’t honor me and didn’t let me appropriate the victory in Soledar!
    3. flicker
      flicker 20 February 2023 16: 33
      -2
      The general staff of the competitor got scared? Sabotage?

      How can Wagner compete with the Russian Defense Ministry?)
      These are completely different weight categories.

      Failures and huge loss of hp. PMCs are failures and losses of PMCs.
      And failures and huge losses of hp. The Russian Defense Ministry is a disaster for Russia.

      Conclusion: PMC Wagner and the Russian Defense Ministry have different degrees of responsibility to the country.

      PMCs can plan risky operations (involving large losses) for the country, this will be painful, but tolerable.
      But the Russian Defense Ministry cannot plan risky operations (associated with large losses) - since large losses can destroy the statehood of Russia.
      ---
      So there is no need to compare their effectiveness.
  22. sub307
    sub307 20 February 2023 14: 04
    +6
    Quote: Million
    Until the Moscow generals are sent to the trenches, nothing will change

    Well...let's imagine...the "Moscow generals" were sent to the trenches....Imagine...isn't it funny yet? winked
    1. Al manah
      Al manah 20 February 2023 15: 42
      +2
      Well, this is how much parquet you need to lay in those trenches ... laughing
    2. Lionnvrsk
      Lionnvrsk 20 February 2023 21: 48
      0
      Quote: sub307
      Well...let's imagine...the "Moscow generals" were sent to the trenches....Imagine...isn't it funny yet?

      “Yes, there were two generals, and since both were frivolous, they soon, at the behest of a pike, at my will, found themselves on a desert island.
      The generals served all their lives in some kind of registry; there they were born, brought up and grew old, therefore, they did not understand anything. They didn’t even know any words, except: “Receive the assurance of my perfect respect and devotion” .....
      yes
    3. your1970
      your1970 21 February 2023 13: 30
      0
      Quote: sub307
      Quote: Million
      Until the Moscow generals are sent to the trenches, nothing will change

      Well...let's imagine...the "Moscow generals" were sent to the trenches....Imagine...isn't it funny yet? winked

      During the war, the artilleryman’s grandfather never saw anyone higher than the regiment commander in positions - and this howitzer regiment was at least a couple of kilometers from the front line.
  23. oldmetal
    oldmetal 20 February 2023 14: 04
    +10
    Of course, MO will slow down Wagner, if it hasn't done it so far - elementary jealousy. In general, when the military glory of Russia is made by mercenaries, and not by the native army, it is somehow dumb.
  24. nellyjuri
    nellyjuri 20 February 2023 14: 09
    -13
    They say that Prigozhin is being asked to apologize. And he apparently according to thieves' concepts, it's zapadlo. Here, screaming about your dying guys and playing on someone's emotions, as they say, let a tear go, it's not zapadlo.

    It seems that the war is going on, but some kind of showdown and show-off.

    You deal with your feelings. Either you guys or your show-offs are more expensive.
    1. flicker
      flicker 20 February 2023 15: 47
      -5
      Here, screaming about your dying guys and playing on someone's emotions, as they say, let a tear go, it's not zapadlo.
      If only that.
      We all mourn the dying guys, but at the same time he throws a reproach at the MO.

      Like, the Moscow Region did not supply the BC, and because of this, the guys are dying.

      A number of questions arise:
      1. Did the MO not deliver the BC or the application was not submitted?
      2. And before that there were no losses?

      As for losses, we admire and rejoice in the successes of PMC Wagner, but at the same time, no one knows the price of these successes. We do not know their loss.

      The success of PMC Wagner is at the same time a consequence of: good preparation (interaction, high internal motivation, etc.) extremely risky assault operations.
      Risky operations are usually associated with large losses.
      We don’t know what Wagner’s losses are, but now we know that they are not due to risky assault operations, but due to non-deliveries of ammunition by the Defense Ministry.
      For some reason, I immediately recall Mikhalkov's film Citadel, when Soviet soldiers went on the attack with cuttings from shovels.
      Here Prigogine paints almost the same picture for us.
      ----
      At the same time, in some cases, Prigozhin says that the PMC is a completely independent unit from the Moscow Region.
      In others, he complains that MO does not supply him with BC.

      So independent or not supplying?

      And Prigozhin has enough such punctures and inconsistencies, which is only worth "tangerines" to captured Ukrainians who killed your boys.
      But this seems to have been a flaw in Prigozhin's PR people.

      Another interesting rule:
      Nobody knows Wagner's losses (which is probably correct). This topic is closed both for the media and for military correspondents and bloggers.
      And vice versa, the losses of the Russian Armed Forces immediately begin to trumpet at first silent military correspondents and bloggers in the first case, and then other media, including large ones.

      Somehow amicably, in the first case - complete silence, in the second - outrageous hype.
      It seems to be controlled from one center.
      1. Aleksandr21
        Aleksandr21 20 February 2023 17: 01
        +4
        Quote: flicker
        Nobody knows Wagner's losses (which is probably correct). This topic is closed both for the media and for military correspondents and bloggers.
        And vice versa, they immediately begin to trumpet about the losses of the Russian Armed Forces


        And what do you know about the losses of the RF Armed Forces? According to the law, all information is classified, if someone starts to "blow" it may well go to places not so remote .... so let's be honest, our official losses have not been reported for a long time, but they are clearly not small, judging by shots from Ugledar and other photo and video materials, as well as for prisoners who are being changed by almost hundreds ....

        There is no such demand with PMCs, it’s true and we don’t know about losses either) but from the point of view of management / tactics and high command, they are head and shoulders above our generals.

        1) There are real results with disproportionately fewer resources that PMCs have in comparison with the RF Armed Forces. (this shows their effectiveness).

        2) The RF Armed Forces have had serious mistakes over the past half a year (regroupings: Kharkiv / Kherson regions - which nullified all small successes), PMCs did not have such mistakes, because. where they were, everything was planned quite well.

        3) PMCs simply would not keep incompetent commanders / generals .... because. the organization works for results, but what the RF Armed Forces have been working for over the past year (taking into account the endless Western "express" and other "successes") is a big question ....

        But with all this, our guys in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the commanders of the lower / middle level are HEROES, and no one will take this away from them, but the high command ... leaves much to be desired.
    2. gsev
      gsev 22 February 2023 12: 01
      0
      Quote from nellyjuri
      Either you guys or your show-offs are more expensive.

      A person is able to go into battle at the risk of his life if his honor is dearer to him than life. Prigozhin would rather be ordered to surrender Artemovsk and dissolve Wagner than humiliate himself in front of those whom he considers a fool. And if he breaks down and humiliates himself, it means that he does not possess the qualities of a military commander and a military man. Even Stalin warned special officers that during the execution of the military at the front, their human dignity should not be humiliated.
  25. Evgeny Rodzevich
    Evgeny Rodzevich 20 February 2023 14: 11
    +10
    This is how they fought in Chechnya ... People's lives are nothing compared to the "selfish" (financial) interests of "our" MANAGERS ... CREATURES.
  26. fiberboard
    fiberboard 20 February 2023 14: 14
    +9
    There are a bunch of generals with Ukrainian roots in the headquarters, and it is not clear which of them is a quiet saboteur. Now, again, officers from the corps of the Luhansk and Donetsk republics are being fired. In their place, our General Staff puts "real" officers.
  27. DefenderofTruth
    DefenderofTruth 20 February 2023 14: 15
    +4
    In the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, in the Government of the Russian Federation, in the Kremlin, almost everyone is traitors, defeatists and conciliators who dream that the Russian Federation should be defeated in the war in Ukraine as soon as possible.
  28. RoTTor
    RoTTor 20 February 2023 14: 16
    -5
    Maybe enough to advertise this obscure character and his muddy structure.
    If she is private, let her buy at the market.

    Better to explain:
    - How does the PMC interact with the Defense Ministry?

    - under what conditions does he use military equipment transferred by the Ministry of Defense?

    - how do real officers and generals feel about PMCs?

    And a follow up question:
    HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR THE RED ARMY TO COMPLETELY FREE THE ENTIRE DONBASS AND ALL UKRAINE FROM THE PREVIOUS FASCISTS?
    1. flicker
      flicker 20 February 2023 15: 55
      -4
      HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR THE RED ARMY TO COMPLETELY FREE THE ENTIRE DONBASS AND ALL UKRAINE FROM THE PREVIOUS FASCISTS?
      And what losses our people were ready for then.
      Now we cannot take cities with the same losses.
      During the liberation of Poland alone, about 600 of our fighters died.
  29. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 20 February 2023 14: 16
    +4
    everything gets stuck in the military bureaucracy

    Hello again! In the end, we'll put it all together again... recourse
  30. Glagol1
    Glagol1 20 February 2023 14: 22
    +8
    Each betrayal (sabotage) has a name. Comrade said so. Stalin was right. If pests continue to spoil freely, we will lose the war. Find and destroy. At any cost.
    1. flicker
      flicker 20 February 2023 16: 00
      -2
      Find and destroy.
      By the way, it's not that easy to find.
      Any price
      That's the difficulty, that "at any cost" is our defeat.
      Conditions of our task: to win at the lowest possible cost.
      It is American generals who can develop the most risky operations - how many Ukrainians die they do not care.
      We develop operations such that losses should be minimal.
  31. Oleg . B.
    Oleg . B. 20 February 2023 14: 23
    +9
    This is human envy, the envy of armchair generals. An example from history - during the Second World War in Africa, 50 thousand Romel's corps drove 250 thousand British groups. However, before that, the Italians were very liquid crap in front of the British. And so the Allies began to leak information about convoys for Romel's corps. Romel began to receive only a quarter of what went by sea.
    And now every shell not delivered to the troops is the life of a soldier. AND LAMPAS DO NOT CARE!!! Commander-in-Chief Awwwwww!!!!! Where are you???!!!
  32. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 20 February 2023 14: 23
    +8
    Yevgeny Prigozhin: Despite all efforts, the issue of the supply of ammunition to PMC Wagner has not been resolved

    It's time to send walkers to Putin and a liquidation group to the saboteurs...
    1. Vladimir80
      Vladimir80 20 February 2023 14: 34
      0
      don’t you think that they will shrug their hands in front of the walkers and advise you to apply to the MO?
      1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
        GELEZNII_KAPUT 20 February 2023 16: 02
        +1
        Quote: Vladimir80
        don’t you think that they will shrug their hands in front of the walkers and advise you to apply to the MO?

        Well, it depends on who will be walkers, and how many of them there will be ... a very bad option, of course, but I don’t think it’s fantastic, since the political field has been cleared, then other options are possible, as they say ...
  33. Maverick1812
    Maverick1812 20 February 2023 14: 24
    +6
    It's time to name these "bureaucrats"! The motherland must know the "heroes"! And then the shooting...
    1. Al manah
      Al manah 20 February 2023 15: 37
      +7
      Today the execution was replaced by a transfer, with a promotion. feel
  34. Ruslan Sledkov
    Ruslan Sledkov 20 February 2023 14: 30
    +4
    And how can this be linked with the transfer of Wagner's forces to the Zaporizhia and Vuglodar direction. I think Prigozhin will leave so many forces in the Artemovsky direction so that the front does not fail there. You will have to forget about the offensive there. In the Zaporozhye and Uhldarsky direction, shells will reach him, at least through the thoughtful officers of the Ministry of Defense on the front line, who will share with him.
    1. arthh
      arthh 20 February 2023 14: 31
      0
      The strange thing is that the offensive there seems to be going well, there are more losses, but it goes at a pace
  35. Alex.09.02
    Alex.09.02 20 February 2023 14: 31
    0
    Prigogine needs to be taken and left with his musicians for Africa, let them beg for help later, or go and just pick it up, the guys are desperate.
    1. your1970
      your1970 21 February 2023 13: 34
      0
      Quote: Alex.09.02
      go and just pick up, the guys are desperate.

      Both whites and reds were killed in the Civil Greens
  36. T800-101
    T800-101 20 February 2023 14: 39
    +8
    Prigozhin becomes politically dangerous. PMC demonstrates success, gaining popularity. And the old farts upstairs, why someone else's popularity? Well, how will they themselves be trampled for inefficiency against the background of other people's successes? They can't do it themselves, they don't give it to others.
  37. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 20 February 2023 14: 43
    +3
    It looks like Prigozhin had a snack with someone at the very top, now they want to put him in his place, in short, they began to measure themselves with pussy when it is necessary to do business, m. good luck, and people are dying because of them
    1. d.zacharith
      d.zacharith 20 February 2023 15: 52
      -1
      Recently he publicly threatened to piss on Strelkov, and now he himself, it turns out they drive piss on the lips
      1. d.zacharith
        d.zacharith 20 February 2023 16: 19
        +6
        But Strelkov, once, in the same way, sitting in Slavyansk, complained about problems with the supply of ammunition
    2. flicker
      flicker 20 February 2023 16: 47
      -5
      It looks like Prigozhin had a bite to eat with someone at the very top
      Prigozhin would have been put in his place a long time ago, it’s just that he has a powerful “roof” and this is not Putin.
      It is believed that the Kovalchuk brothers are its "roof".
      We get: high technology (Mikhail) + money, media (Yuri) + military unit (Prigozhin).
      Percussion trio.
      ---
      What tasks do they pursue?
      It looks like taking over the power.
      By the way, they seem to have promoted vaccination and cure.
      ---
      Once again, this is an assumption, but there is reason for this assumption.
  38. The comment was deleted.
  39. Vladimirovich_7
    Vladimirovich_7 20 February 2023 14: 44
    +5
    Well, if so, then there are people in our Moscow Region who do not want Wagner to be promoted, they do not want victory. This is the 5th column.
  40. yuliatreb
    yuliatreb 20 February 2023 14: 52
    +3
    What to comment here, write everything as it is, your comment will be banned, which has happened more than once. Prigozhin is becoming too popular among our citizens and such popularity is not good for some, so these are still flowers, what kind of berries will be, after the end of the military campaign, only time will tell.
    1. place
      place 20 February 2023 15: 57
      0
      Quote: yuliatreb
      . Prigozhin is becoming too popular among our citizens, and such popularity is not good for some

      If citizens all over Russia hear Prigozhin from any iron, and everyone else put on muzzles and is silent (except for one Girkin), It seems to me that such popularity is just to someone's advantage. Whose hand is on hand As the police say in detective stories, "but we know all this only from the words of the victim" ................ Moreover, our citizens are such that if they have something in their heads ... .., then you can’t turn it off in any way, you won’t knock it out with a stake.
  41. Andriuha077
    Andriuha077 20 February 2023 14: 52
    0
    Now you have shells, but how then to spend Biden's visit to Bakhmut or Artemovsk.
    Generally.
    Read official channels:
    Careful preparation is the key to success
    Everyone. The Ministry of Defense of Russia wished everyone a successful week
  42. place
    place 20 February 2023 15: 18
    +1
    Whatever Prigozhin says, all of Russia will immediately know about it. And what they answered - no one hears ..... including from Prigogine himself. Who only hints at Surovikin and others and tells us how they point the finger up to him ....
    All the rest put on muzzles and are silent, but the people are indignant!
    / "Ward No. 6", A.P. Chekhov/
  43. Al manah
    Al manah 20 February 2023 15: 32
    +5
    Look at you ... And they said, they say, he By yourself friendly... really To say more about solves nothing?
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 21 February 2023 05: 22
      +1
      And who is he, Himself? Leader of a social movement? Official oligarch and owner of big business?
      He was not a member of any political party. In addition to the CPSU. How did he get up, also by himself?
  44. GRIGORIY76
    GRIGORIY76 20 February 2023 16: 12
    +3
    A PMC could only be created by someone who enjoys Putin's personal trust, that's for sure. And that he cannot solve the issue of ammunition through the president? Do we still have a vertical of power?
    Or is there no ammo anywhere?
    1. blackGRAIL
      blackGRAIL 20 February 2023 19: 16
      -1
      The President removed himself as much as possible from the leadership of the NWO. The entire carte blanche was given to the Moscow Region, Shoigu and Gerasimov. We see what happens to the commanders, who are blamed for the defeat and mass casualties - they get promoted. Not a single such figure was fired / demoted, received a reprimand / penalty, only gratitude. Shoigu's vertical is absolutely inviolable. They don't call him the Crown Prince for nothing.

      Prigogine says in plain text that he is required to repent and apologize. And breaking the comedy asks in front of whom. And the commentators pretend to have forgotten how he vacuumed the Moscow Region, the generals and personally Gerasimov. Spitting at Gerasimov is an attack on Shoigu.

      Almost everything is written about the conflict between Prigozhin and the Moscow Region in the telegram. The question of indispensability (at the moment) Prigogine is the question of how much the Defense Ministry (and not only it) needs a military victory. Or the bet is on the fact that Ukraine / the West will run out of steam (in half a year, in a year, in two) and the West will agree to an agreement. This means that there is no need to break the existing organizational structure (and values). You just need to be patient.
    2. ivan2022
      ivan2022 21 February 2023 05: 24
      +3
      Can resolve all issues undoubtedly through those who helped him to rise. But if you think that his main concern in life is not a billion-dollar business, but shells for fighters, then you are mistaken.

      You are all here - just a media background, which is necessary to resolve issues.

      It's only Comrade Zhukov - - a naked rogue went to the same naked rogue Stalin for shells and tanks.

      And he didn’t think about anything else, and the entire Soviet people didn’t put it on notice. There was no time, because he was busy with business.
  45. Archivist Vasya
    Archivist Vasya 20 February 2023 16: 32
    +1
    It's not clear - are they traitors openly working for the enemy, or are they just hand-assers with low IQ and high HRs doing such dirty tricks? I don't know which is worse.
    What will the din of Gerasimov and Shoigu say about this?
  46. Two
    Two 20 February 2023 17: 00
    +3
    Prigozhin added that under Surovikin, PMCs had no problems with shells, but today someone is sitting in large offices, bending their fingers and deciding whether to issue ammunition or not. You don’t have to be seven spans in your forehead to understand who is behind this phrase, a hint of a plywood general in trinkets and greedy for glory, who else besides him can give this order.
    1. place
      place 20 February 2023 17: 30
      +1
      Quote: Two
      You don’t have to be seven spans in your forehead to understand who is behind this phrase, a hint of a plywood general in trinkets and greedy for glory, who else besides him can give this order.

      Our Guarantor also likes to use the game of hints .... No responsibility, but "dear Russians" themselves find and hang the same noodles on their ears. And glad to .... that they understood the hint How many times did the awesome nonsense pass "with a bang" after the preparatory phrase "well, you yourself understand" ....
      Yes... yes... we are smart, we understand! What can you understand if you hear only one side all the time?
      1. Two
        Two 20 February 2023 23: 37
        0
        Well, if you think that the guarantor gave this order, remember Syria and the losses of the Wagner PMC, there was the same scenario and the same cast.
        1. ivan2022
          ivan2022 21 February 2023 05: 18
          0
          In Syria, the order, as far as is known, was given to Wagner by Prigogine. It is unlikely that the Garant is engaged in operational management
  47. Grandfather Mozai
    Grandfather Mozai 20 February 2023 17: 20
    +2
    Revenge from big stars is served cold .. Maybe tomorrow at least one strong-willed person will reach Temneishev, open his eyes to this "drain", in a good way, Prigogine himself should be present tomorrow.
    1. blackGRAIL
      blackGRAIL 20 February 2023 19: 21
      -1
      Do you really think that Putin lives in some kind of his own fictional world and does not understand ... not even what is happening, but how much they are trying to correct / develop it through F?
    2. Hagakure
      Hagakure 20 February 2023 20: 04
      0
      Recently, Prigogine has swung too much with a sledgehammer. As long as it did not become public, everything was fine at the top. Now, apparently, even Putin is not intimidated. Ammo deprivation is an old tried and true move. So Mozgovoy had to leave the "Lysichansky Triangle" in the 14th. He, too, was simply not given ammunition. Well, since he continued to be correct, and this did not suit some financial circles in Moscow, he was liquidated. Prigozhin received a warning from above, but he disobeyed it. The problem here is that if Putin doesn’t like it so much, then Prigogine should have been summoned to Moscow and his leg broken into teaching. But to deprive of ammunition is a lot of torn off legs, arms and lives of professionals on the front line. It would be more expedient not to break away on his "serfs", but to "pan" Prigozhin himself to sip a forelock, or, in the absence of the latter, an ear. I do not support the idea that while the gentlemen are fighting, the forelocks should crackle at the lackeys. There are not so many of them and new ones do not give birth.

      However, for some time now, we have started such a practice. I watched it in Ukraine. In the second half of the 2000s, local oligarchs stopped squeezing enterprises from competitors in order to own them, but began to squeeze them out in order to destroy them. What's the point. Let's say you are an oligarch with 10 conditional enterprises and I have 10 enterprises. This means that we can each create our own party and equally throw money into them, and have equal political parity. It would seem logical to take away two assumptions from you and appropriate them from yourself, and then I will have 12 enterprises, and you will have only 8. I will be one and a half times stronger. The trick is that I don’t understand anything about your business, I don’t understand how to manage your enterprises. Well, because I have 10 banks, and you have 10 metallurgical enterprises. I squeeze them out, I go bankrupt, and they kick the people out into the street. As a result, the most important thing is that I become stronger than you and have greater political power - 10 to 8, and I don't give a damn about your people as an asset.

      Approximately the same struggle is now going on with Prigogine. In fact, the lack of ammunition will physically destroy the personnel of the PMC, as its asset, and this will also reduce the political weight.

      But understanding all this, I remain aware that such games are disgusting to me. I am against forelocks crackling at serfs. But it's time for Prigozhin to tie a sledgehammer with PR. Because otherwise he'll end up like Brain.
  48. Marson35
    Marson35 20 February 2023 20: 13
    0
    Where is our guarantor? He does not want to intervene in this situation? Or is it not his war? What an absurd situation...
  49. Bro
    Bro 20 February 2023 23: 00
    0
    Here the majority glorifies Prigogine. But in fact, his "success" lies in the fact that he destroys his subordinates in jambs, does not take into account the losses, fills up the black soil of Ukraine with the corpses of his assault squads. Do you want the MO to fight in the same way? And do not talk about his "talents", his only talent is the one I wrote about above. And if the company is private, then its owner, and not just the state, should also provide for it.
    1. the same doctor
      the same doctor 21 February 2023 01: 33
      +1
      Well, give him a weapon, so as not to fight with blood, but with bombs.
    2. storm
      storm 21 February 2023 15: 46
      0
      Bro And if the company is private, then its owner, and not just the state, should also provide for it.


      Having received his army, his weapons and his production of ammunition, a person will want to get some kind of Far Far Away Kingdom of his own, the same liberated Novorossia and not the fact that under the flag of the Russian Federation, have you thought about this?
  50. Moneron
    Moneron 20 February 2023 23: 28
    +1
    here it is the vertical of power in all its glory, sharpened by one person. boyars in stripes are freaking out with might and main. lulled by gentle speeches, the king sleeps sweetly.
    it seems like a country without a helmsman ......