Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed the authenticity of the video about the problems with ammunition at PMC "Wagner"

The founder of Wagner PMC Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed the authenticity of the video recorded by the fighters of the artillery unit from the “musicians”, in which they declare problems with ammunition. The video appeared on Russian resources the day before.

Prigozhin commented on the video, confirming that the Wagner PMC is indeed experiencing problems with all types of ammunition and is currently taking all measures to solve this problem. According to the curator of the "musicians", on the eve of the combat general Apty Alaudinov, who is in the hospital, allocated a small amount of 120-mm mines and tank shells from our own stocks, but this is not an option.

In terms of normal deliveries, I've been to all the offices in Moscow that I know of and will continue to do so until the guys get everything they need. Even if they handcuff me in one of the offices and put me in jail for the so-called "discrediting the army"

- declared Prigogine.

The day before, a video appeared on the Web in which fighters from the artillery unit of the Wagner PMC ask the Ministry of Defense to arrange a normal supply of ammunition. According to the fighters, today the "musicians" are completely cut off from their supplies. There are not enough 152 mm shells for howitzers, 100 mm for the Rapier, 125 mm for tanks, and even 120 mm mines for mortars.

We appeal to our colleagues and friends from the Ministry of Defense. We are sure that you have ammunition somewhere in the warehouses. But we badly need them. We will be extremely grateful if you will assist us, help us, and supply this ammunition.

the fighters say.

The situation with the provision of PMC "Wagner" with ammunition has already been called "wild" and requiring the intervention of the Supreme Commander.

Comments

[Alien From]

You know, dear members of the forum, now I don’t know exactly how all THIS (it has been going on for a year) is called

[FoBoss_VM]

Finally, many here began to reach

[Trapp1st]

many here began to reach

Here they still like to joke about the Baltic states, although in their place one should not laugh, but think.

[SaLaR]

Yeah... Russia... What are you in ass if this is happening ... Yes, who will respect Russia after this (not even pick up a word that is not obscene) ... After all, someone gave the command not to allocate ammunition ..... They don’t know how to fight at the front, but professionals choke their own .... Shame on Russia

[dauria]

They don’t know how to fight at the front, but professionals choke their own .... Shame on Russia

The PR Prigogine is a shame. He enjoys the fact that he can wag anything - he does not serviceman , but a businessman. But the guys from the Moscow Region are bound by orders and they have no right to talk.
Someday there will be a real analysis of the fighting. Without bloggers, correspondents, the Internet ... It's a pity that even then these issues of "DSP and Secret" will not be made public.

[APASUS]

Quote: dauria

The PR Prigogine is a shame.

The PR Prigozhin is when he raises the flag on every video in the liberated towns and cities. And so he voiced the real problem. Apparently, someone is very dissatisfied with Prigogine.
There seemed to be no other option to rock this swamp

[flicker]

The PR Prigozhin is when he raises the flag on every video in the liberated towns and cities.

"Do not make yourself an idol"
Where and on what videos did he raise the flag?
"and cities" is plural.
What cities are we talking about?
If you think calmly and objectively, it turns out that there are no videos with the raising of the flag.
But in your perception there is!
I’ll make a reservation right away - Wagner PMCs are fighting perfectly.
That's just about the cities taken (plural number) are out of the question. But this does not at all beg for the merits of the PMC fighters.
But in your perception it IS.
---
And so again: "Do not make yourself an idol"

And remember that Prigozhin ≠ PMC Wagner.

[Konstantin Cherny]

Prigozhin = PMC Wagner, take him away and everything will start to fall apart

[flicker]

take it away and everything will fall apart

Oddly enough, I tend to agree. Here are just the reasons for the collapse, we will name different.
Question: why will it start to fall apart, because the fighters will never forget how to fight?

[APASUS]

Quote: flicker

"Do not make yourself an idol"
Where and on what videos did he raise the flag?
"and cities" is plural.
What cities are we talking about?
If you think calmly and objectively, it turns out that there are no videos with the raising of the flag.
But in your perception there is!

I explained to one what PR (Public relations) is, now you have to explain. Read carefully. I described an example of PR, this does not mean that Prigozhin raises the PMC flag in every city.
I hope I explained

[haron]

Quote: APASUS

I hope I explained

You had a good article for 10.10. year 2014. You do not write much ... but.
EEEH! Your words are in God's ears.

[flicker]

But

PR (Public relations)

this is essentially AIR, which creates impressions, and the latter (including) form an image.
Those. we get a deceptive distorted image. Within which we live and act.

[Glagol1]

It's like someone doesn't like Prigogine very much. For example, one of the governors is very worried about Prigozhin's popularity. I do not at all claim that he is behind this lawlessness, but it is certain that the one who is behind this is worthy of disgust. People's. Least.

[Reserve officer]

Andrey, yes, not someone does not love him, but very many. And the higher their position in the notorious vertical of power, the stronger this dislike. And the diagnosis for all of them is simple - envy and stupidity always give rise to meanness.
Only these envious people still do not realize that such acts border on high treason.

[Planem]

Where is Mr. Putin looking? Or is he out of business again? President and Commander-in-Chief for appearances.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: dauria

Prigozhin PR - that's a shame ...

Wait, whether there will be more, Gazprom has already been allowed to open its own PMC, "to protect our interests in the Arctic".))) Corporations and "socially responsible businessmen" create their own private armies, nationals create their own private armies, state employees lose salaries , infrastructure projects are suspended, household incomes are falling, but corporations receive new tax breaks, Russians die at the rate of half a million a year, but migrants are imported in commercial quantities, I'm afraid that the 90s will soon seem like flowers to us.

[haron]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Wait, whether there will be more, Gazprom has already been allowed to open its own PMC, "to protect our interests in the Arctic".))) Corporations and "socially responsible businessmen" create their own private armies, nationals create their own private armies, lose wages

This is normal.
There is a good movie about such companies guarding wells .... yes, to extract anything "Wind River". The land is private. The laws on ecology of the state are not violated ... while no one sees .... The only question is the legislation on weapons. Let's say no more than 12,5mm with unlimited ammunition.
You can have a T-72, but one shell and shoot only in a place designated by the state.
Somewhere like that.

[Edik]

Quote: SaLaR

They don’t know how to fight at the front, but professionals choke their own .... Shame on Russia

The generals were not offended much! But you and I know what they do with the offended.

[newtc7]

Quote: SaLaR

Yeah... Russia... What are you in ass if this is happening ... Yes, who will respect Russia after this (not even pick up a word that is not obscene) ... After all, someone gave the command not to allocate ammunition ..... They don’t know how to fight at the front, but professionals choke their own .... Shame on Russia

And who do you think could give such a command? Who is this jealous lover of various fun tank starts?))
He is who else. And our guarantor has the feeling that he was really changed, now he does not interfere in anything with us, or simply does nothing. Well, yes, after all, the main fan of biathlon is his close friend, which means that he is 100% trusted in whatever he does.
Well, it’s tin, of course, that they left the only effective unit without shells, it’s no longer worth talking about stupidity here, it’s more like a betrayal of the motherland.

[flicker]

And who do you think could give such a command?

"Was there a boy?"
All this looks more like the struggle of Nanai boys.

The usual HUTSPA from Prigogine. The goyim are bred.

[Sergey Dvornikov]

While you're thinking the fifth year will go! Immediately find the perpetrators and skin them three times in penal battalions! For flashing red muzzles at parades and receiving regular "sweets" from the ruler is one thing - but ensuring the country's security is completely different!

[Egeny]

This is called sabotage. It became “hurtful” for someone to hear about the success of the “musicians”, someone decided to hold their horses. I wonder if we will find out the name and surname of this someone?

[flicker]

This is called sabotage.

It is called preparing for rebellion speculating on the military successes of the Wagner PMC fighters.

[SKVichyakow]

Quote from Egeni

This is called sabotage. It became “hurtful” for someone to hear about the success of the “musicians”, someone decided to hold their horses. I wonder if we will find out the name and surname of this someone?

Our peace party and some leaders in the Moscow Region.

[flicker]

Finally, laughing began to reach many here

Or maybe exactly the opposite - it has ceased to reach at all.
Firstly, Prigozhin ≠ PMC Wagner.
Prigogine is just a manager hired by a certain INVESTOR.
Secondly, did PMCs receive weapons and ammunition from the Ministry of Defense or buy them?
From the statements of Prigozhin (we have everything of our own: artillery, aviation ... even flew as a navigator)) it follows that they acquired it themselves.
From the statements of PMC fighters: the Moscow Region stopped supplying ammunition (that is, they received it from the Moscow Region)
There is some kind of contradiction.
---
So what came up?
That MO is "bad" and Prigogine is "good"?
---
The fight for the 2024 presidency has begun.
---
With the help of raids on the Moscow Region, they are trying to discredit Putin's policy, to fail the elections in 2024, and then to bargain with the United States.
---
Does anyone else see the analogy?
From a clown to the presidency of Ukraine.
From restaurateur ... to president

And the pattern is one.

[OLEG CZIGANOV]

In your opinion, Prigogine should have his own factories for the manufacture of ammunition, what kind of stupidity is it that someone at the top starts that soldiers may die, start that because of not supplying us they can be defeated. They would try to do this under Stalin, this indicates the impunity of some responsible ones, apparently they are from the environment of the commander-in-chief

[flicker]

In your opinion, Prigozhin should have his own ammunition factories

But he also says that PMC Wagner has its own artillery (and of all calibers), its own aircraft, MLRS, etc.

But he does not have any aircraft factories, there are no factories for the production of artillery and MLRS. All this is not there, but all this equipment is - so he bought it (since it is a PMC).
If so, then he must buy ammunition.

Although I don't think that's the case. There are no problems with ammunition, perhaps some kind of temporary failure.
---
In addition, all this hype is raised in order to hit the Russian Defense Ministry. And through this, to discredit the Supreme Commander-in-Chief - Putin.

due to non-delivery, we can be defeated

Yes, just not to defeat, but they will be forced to retreat and thereby collapse the front.
Such a course of events is not ruled out, and at the same time, all responsibility for the collapse of the front through the media will be assigned to the Moscow Region.

[Natalya Yurievna]

Oh dear, don't be fooled! You know everything. And everyone knows. Only words characterizing these events are prohibited in the public space)))

[ZhEK-Vodogrey]

Quote: Alien From

I don’t know how all THIS (it’s been going on for a year) is called

In Artemovsk, everything continues to go slowly, as the Wagners are again hungry for shells. It didn’t work out in Ugledar either, but there, unlike the Wagnerites, the hunger is not shell, but intellectual.

[flicker]

The hashtag is already ready. Operatively.
"PMC Wagner is the only unit that is currently successfully attacking."

I repeat.
There was such an attacker in CSKA, Vagner Love, a very good striker.
I don’t remember exactly who CSKA played against, but the events unfolded as follows: the game was generally equal, Akinfeev carried all the balls, CSKA’s defense spread in tackles, CSKA midfielders plowed the entire field, and only one player Wagner could be said to be jogging. I remember watching and thinking why Gazzaev would not replace him? It was somewhere in the 80th minute of the match, the score was 0-0, and then suddenly Wagner got the ball, beat three defenders and scored the winning goal. Cool goal, Wagner's merit was undeniable.
I just think if Akinfeev did not drag the balls, and the rest of the field players would not plow the field, could Wagner's goal be victorious for CSKA?
---
In other words, if now the Russian Armed Forces suddenly stop exerting pressure along the entire front (or even worse, they bring down the front along the flanks of Wagner PMCs), then I strongly doubt that Wagner (in this situation) will not be surrounded.

PMC Wagner is fighting very well, but Wagner's success is largely a consequence of the efforts of the Russian Armed Forces in other sectors of the front.

[Himalayan]

The defeat of Iraq in the war with the United States is a betrayal of the Iraqi generals. There is a set-up for a more successful war.

[ARIONkrsk]

Quote: Alien From

You know, dear members of the forum, now I don’t know exactly how all THIS (it has been going on for a year) is called

This is sabotage, sabotage and betrayal, it is far from a secret that traitors are sitting in high offices and now they are putting spokes in the wheels of the Wagners.

[flicker]

This is sabotage, sabotage and betrayal, it is far from a secret that they are sitting in high offices

"In high offices sit" different people.
And what we are seeing now is the beginning of the struggle for victory in the 2024 elections.

Someone really needs Putin and his political course for the independence of Russia to lose.
To defeat Putin, MAJOR failures in the NWO are necessary, and for this SOMEONE is trying to ruin the Russian Defense Ministry.
In short, the discrediting of the Russian Defense Ministry, the collapse of the Russian Defense Ministry, major failures in the NMD, the collapse of people's confidence in Putin, then the defeat of Putin (or his political line for the sovereignization of Russia), after which, WHO TO will begin to negotiate with the West about the surrender of Russia.
---
Pattern one
From a clown to the presidency of Ukraine.
Then the war and the collapse of Ukraine.

From restaurateur to...

[newtc7]

Quote: flicker

This is sabotage, sabotage and betrayal, it is far from a secret that they are sitting in high offices

"In high offices sit" different people.
And what we are seeing now is the beginning of the struggle for victory in the 2024 elections.

Someone really needs Putin and his political course for the independence of Russia to lose.
To defeat Putin, MAJOR failures in the NWO are necessary, and for this SOMEONE is trying to ruin the Russian Defense Ministry.
In short, the discrediting of the Russian Defense Ministry, the collapse of the Russian Defense Ministry, major failures in the NMD, the collapse of people's confidence in Putin, then the defeat of Putin (or his political line for the sovereignization of Russia), after which, WHO TO will begin to negotiate with the West about the surrender of Russia.
---
Pattern one
From a clown to the presidency of Ukraine.
Then the war and the collapse of Ukraine.

From restaurateur to...

You have a complete problem with logic. If someone is trying to ruin Putin's course for independence, then this is clearly either the person who does not give shells to Wagner or his close friend and ally. Can't add two and two together?
Or do you really think that Prigogine is the same agent of the West?)))

[flicker]

You have a complete problem with logic

Well, explain what LOGIC is and preferably in one word?

[spirit]

traitors are sitting in high offices and now they are putting spokes in the wheels of the Wagners

What is there to think? It’s very logical who! Here I completely agree with Strelkov. Plywood’s vanity was put to shame, now he will do everything to harm the Wagners. without blinking an eye

Strelkov's quote

What the position of the leadership of the RF Ministry of Defense is designed for is nowhere clearer: the goal is the complete subordination of the PMC "Wagner" to the structures of the RF Ministry of Defense, either by reorganization and inclusion directly in the Armed Forces, or (at least) by changing the leadership. - Tolerate arrogance (that's how, I'm sure, Shoigu perceives Prigozhin's activities) and competition Plywood Marshal does not categorically intend to - it calls into question his status as "crown prince".

[Natalya Yurievna]

24.10.2022 16:19
RG.RU Category:Power
Mishustin: To meet the needs of the NMD, decisions must be made quickly and clearly, without compromising quality.
Mishustin will have two deputies on the Coordinating Council. Deputy Prime Minister, head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov will be responsible for the supply of all types of weapons, military equipment, communications equipment for the targeted tasks of the Ministry of Defense. "

[FoBoss_VM]

Well, if Deniska Manturov is responsible, then that's it, Khan. There will be no business ... This is what everything will not take on. But the most high-spirited minister. And I'm still waiting for when the Investigative Committee and the FSB will take care of the source of such income. And if you also dig there it’s good .... Oooo

[SKVichyakow]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

Well, if Deniska Manturov is responsible, then that's it, Khan. There will be no business ... This is what everything will not take on. But the most high-spirited minister. And I'm still waiting for when the Investigative Committee and the FSB will take care of the source of such income. And if you also dig there it’s good .... Oooo

At one time, he and his curator helped a lot in slowing down the development of our aviation industry, to say the least. Even now he is in no hurry to carry out what he was entrusted with, even by the president. There is no demand from THEM. They only scold.

[Trapp1st]

Mishustin will have two deputies on the Coordinating Council.

Now you can cut 4 times more.

[SKVichyakow]

Quote: Alien From

You know, dear members of the forum, now I don’t know exactly how all THIS (it has been going on for a year) is called

In 2014, when the LDNR troops went on the offensive, Surkov was appointed to lead this at that time. Fawning over the West. Then, too, they apparently gave the command that if you don’t stop, then we will stop giving ammunition. The finish line is known to everyone, they stopped advancing and retreated. The peace party in all its splendor.

[MrTulandra]

in 2009, the great helmsman said - "If everyone is jailed, who will work?" The signal was received. That's how they work.

[bobba94]

It's called a three-letter war....

[lopvlad]

Quote: Alien From

I don’t know how all THIS (it’s been going on for a year) is called

this is called capitalism when the main thing is the interests of big capital and only big capital and not the interests of the state and its people.
Especially against the backdrop of a lack of ammunition for our military group in Ukraine, the appeals of military correspondents to start the next wave of mobilization in Russia look like.
If it is not possible to fully provide ammunition for an already belligerent grouping, then how to provide the recruited grouping in a new wave of mobilization? or do we want to follow the path of Ukraine and throw their meat at them?.

[flicker]

Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed the authenticity of the video about the problems with ammunition at PMC "Wagner"
Yesterday, 08:49

Alien From (Alien From)
Yesterday, 08:51
+58
You know, dear forum users, now I don’t know for sure how all THIS (it has been going on for a year) is called recourse request recourse

For 2 minutes and read the text and video 58 sec. see and leave a comment.
Bravo.

[dmi.pris1]

It is not surprising, apparently, how hard things are going in Artemovsk and around. Probably, this applies not only to musicians.

[Cheshire]

The musicians are not to blame for the loss of Balakleya. The elbow is close, but you won’t bite ... They hoped for order in the rear with the new general. Eh...

[dmi.pris1]

"New generals" .. It's like with a new rake. They became, trained, made a career in other conditions, under a different system ...? Yes, how to live without hope ... But .. Yes, what about Armageddon ?Which general?

[Mol_18]

And remember, when he was appointed, they said General Armageddon would destroy your Ukraine and everyone would be a khan to everyone, but here it gets worse and worse every month. And at the expense of Bakhmut, well, let's drop the Odabs that they dropped in Syria, and raze everything to the ground there, and save the lives of the infantry, you can make about 50 planning Odabs.

[Santa Fe]

And remember, when he was appointed, they said General Armageddon would destroy your Ukraine and everyone would be a khan to everyone, but here it gets worse and worse every month.

Does anyone remember where the name Armageddon came from?

It's not about military talent. Surovikin was nicknamed Armageddon by colleagues, after an incident in his office, a subordinate was found shot dead

[Cheshire]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

Yeah, what about Armageddon? Which general?

There are a lot of people who are dependent on leaders, followers, believers. Pity them with their illusions.

[OLEG CZIGANOV]

Yes, he is only responsible for conducting a special operation, and there is also Shoigu above him, Manturov, a friend of Putin, is responsible for the supply, and who will do what there, if the commander-in-chief doesn’t need anything, he’s in his bunker, he’ll record for TV, and there at least the grass does not grow, he put the responsible one, so let him clear it up, but how it will be, this is not of interest to the commander in chief, he is in the bunker.

[Machito]

It is difficult to comment on this news without non-parliamentary expressions. What is the rear command doing there? The assault units do not have enough ammunition. People go on the attack, but there is no support from artillery. This is very reminiscent of the shell famine of 1915, with all the ensuing consequences.
Two eternal Russian questions: Who is to blame and What to do?
Private 7 years in prison was given for pushing an officer in the chest. And what will be the punishment for leaving assault units without ammunition?

[Smoker]

Don't interfere with questions, do business!

[fif21]

Quote: Bearded

Private 7 years in prison was given for pushing an officer in the chest.

Well, this is different! Prigozhin needs to conclude a contract with the Moscow Region or the Government of the Russian Federation on participation in the NWO. And upon receipt of money to conclude contracts with manufacturers. Factories supply products to the MOD, and the MOD provides PMCs in the NWO area. Otherwise, this terry bureaucracy cannot be broken through. Any audit will tear off three skins for the transfer of PMC property. It seems that the LDNR corps had the same problems. But it takes time, but now maybe they will give you a loan? I'm sure the neighbors will throw in stash, thanks to Apty Alaudinov and his parents! A real man, with such a commander even as far as Washington.

[Hagakure]

Yes, what are you talking nonsense? It is clear that this PMC is a structure under the FSB, the GRU or some other state intelligence service. All this is formalized by secret orders and is only formally called a PMC, otherwise no one would have allowed her to operate on the territory of Russia. What the hell is bureaucracy like? Two government agencies cannot share cash flows and supply logistics with each other, or what?

[flicker]

It is clear that this PMC is a structure under the FSB, the GRU or some other state intelligence service

It would be more accurate to say that this PMC was created by former (and are they former) employees of these special services.
But its activities need to be funded. Someone (who?) probably made a fuss and took over the financing, simultaneously appointing Prigogine as the "manager".
Question: who is this investor and why Prigogine?

[Force]

I do not quite understand the outrage on the forum.
And on what legal basis should the RF Ministry of Defense PMC Wagner (a company that is outside the legal field in Russia) provide shells?
The general who gave such an order can sit down and ... and for a long time.

[OLEG CZIGANOV]

Well, of course, they nevertheless came to Ukraine for an excursion, and after all, the regions there are under martial law, if they applied punishment under the laws of war, regardless of position, they would quickly put things in order

[cmax]

Quote: Vigore

I do not quite understand the outrage on the forum.
And on what legal basis should the RF Ministry of Defense PMC Wagner (a company that is outside the legal field in Russia) provide shells?
The general who gave such an order can sit down and ... and for a long time.

I'm bastard, the IT company of the Ministry of Defense has pulled up! Leave the pen and instead of the Wagnerites, advance without ammunition, at the same time you will wipe the snot. Defender. With such victories of the Ministry of Defense, another year will open the way for someone to the most just court in the world. So at least do not interfere with people to fight normally and effectively. Arrogance and resentment (far-fetched) leave for biathlon.

[KLM77]

In this case, all those involved should have been imprisoned for a long time! "Wagner" has been fighting for a year and ammunition appears from somewhere, but there are no landings. And the competent authorities are not at all interested in how a private army, also with aviation and artillery, maintains a database on the territory of Russia? And in general, the term CBO is not regulated in any way in the legislation, and the operation is being carried out. Who will you start with?

[saigon]

Why are you comparing the shock of the basics of the army (only bunks with blankets where the strips are not thread-ready are worse) and pranks with shells.
And to be honest, it just blows some kind of complete hopelessness. Under V.I. Stalin, someone already tried on the wall for such pranks, but there are no words. Again victory against all odds.

[Vladimir80]

Again victory against all odds

more likely to be a natural defeat ...

[Lionov]

For some, the defeat happened a long time ago - brain damage.

[Lionov]

Under Stalin, it sometimes happened much worse, which was why I was forced to utter the phrase - There will be no shells, there will be no comrade Dolgikh. It was not about one unit, but about supplying the entire Army in general. Interruptions with ammunition to one degree or another were throughout the war for a bunch of objective reasons, even if there were a sufficient number of them in the rear. And then, many of our stilted-sofa experts had a wrong understanding that the resource of shells in the Russian Federation is simply not exhausted, here you are right, if under Stalin the Wagner artillerymen managed to shoot so many large-caliber ammunition at such low efficiency, they would have been shot a long time ago as a warning to others. With such a density of artillery, MLRS and not only in this area and the number of shells fired, nothing should have been owed from Bakhmut and its environs for a long time it was simply left by definition. The question is, are the Wagner artillerymen hitting there and for what purposes? It’s stupid to plow the surrounding fields with 152 mm shells, and then write appeals that they don’t have them vata, you don’t need much mind.

[flicker]

Interruptions with BC to one degree or another were the whole war for a bunch of objective reasons, even if there were a sufficient number of them in the rear

No, this idea will not be accepted here.
Here the exclamation is welcomed: "How long!" and then everything that boils in the soul is laid out.

[flicker]

There will be no shells, there will be no comrade Dolgikh

I think that if the phrase "There will be no shells, there will be no Mr. Prigozhin" - then there would be no problems (if, of course, they actually exist) with Wagner's ammunition load and there would be much less losses.
Otherwise, videos are already coming out where the fighters (they say that Wagner) explain the number of their losses by the alleged lack of ammunition from the Moscow Region.

[saigon]

Sir, are you serious about the density of art barrels or what? Until concentrated fire is observed, there is simply stupidly no dense fire to suppress.
All firing with batteries in short raids is not the density of fire. Until we have BTG fire density. Believe me, if a 6 "company opornik is treated with the entire battery for a full BC, there will be those who survived for a long time in hell (the moderator is from the word horseradish vegetable).

[tihonmarine]

The day before, a video appeared on the Web in which fighters from the artillery unit of the Wagner PMC ask the Ministry of Defense to arrange a normal supply of ammunition.

Now the misunderstandings have gone, who is fighting with whom and against whom. And how to fight now further, how and who will liberate Artemovsk.
The generals were transferred to Russia, there were bureaucrats from the army.

[your1970]

Quote: tihonmarine

The day before, a video appeared on the Web in which fighters from the artillery unit of the Wagner PMC ask the Ministry of Defense to arrange a normal supply of ammunition.

Now the misunderstandings have gone, who is fighting with whom and against whom. And how to fight now further, how and who will liberate Artemovsk.
The generals were transferred to Russia, there were bureaucrats from the army.

Quote: Bearded

It is difficult to comment on this news without non-parliamentary expressions. What is the rear command doing there? The assault units do not have enough ammunition. People go on the attack, but there is no support from artillery. This is very reminiscent of the shell famine of 1915, with all the ensuing consequences.
Two eternal Russian questions: Who is to blame and What to do?
Private 7 years in prison was given for pushing an officer in the chest. And what will be the punishment for leaving assault units without ammunition?

Quote: Alien From

You know, dear members of the forum, now I don’t know exactly how all THIS (it has been going on for a year) is called

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

Finally, many here began to reach

I will answer everyone and at once - does everyone remember the plot of the film "Battalions Ask for Fire"?
Absolutely real plot and the film is almost documentary.
And now apply the then realities to the current ones - and call those Soviet generals "bureaucrats from the army", "mediocrity who ruined 2 battalions", "a Russian soldier was betrayed and sold again", well, and everything else from what they say now about generals ...
Not applied?
"#It's a friend"?
Can those of that time be justified - whose echelons were bombed, but the current ones, whose warehouses are exploding - cannot?
Someone canceled the logistics and speed of reproduction??
Before you find fault with the current ones, look around and / or remember our history.
And you will see that yes - there are bureaucrats and always have been, and there have always been and always will be mistakes in planning ..
And the physical impossibility to do something differently - was, is and will always be ...

If we transfer to 1941 the current criticism of the General Staff, then Zhukov for his losses as the NGSh, only near Minsk for 10 days of the war, 200 total losses, apparently they would have demanded to be impaled, not otherwise ...
What would they demand now for the death of day 2 full-strength battalions left without any fire support?
And yes, to the question of punishing the military. By the beginning of the war, there were 1400 generals in the spacecraft, about 3 more were assigned to the war.
56 of them were shot. All in all...

Zy, I do not urge to praise unrestrainedly the current ones, I ask only to judge their actions only KNOWING all the factors that influenced their actions

[Arkadich]

Thank you, they took it off the tongue, only better.
By the way, singing blasphemy against the rear services of the Ministry of Defense, and if the expert answers even better "the distribution of the b / n goes according to the situation, as long as the warehouse is close, it is full, the logistics work everything is clear, we supply everyone as needed. We remove at least one factor of whom in the first In my experience, "who first got up and slippers."

[flicker]

I ask only to judge their actions only KNOWING all the factors that influenced their actions

Well, at least one thoughtful comment.
---
It would be nice to find out if the PMC (after all, private) bought or received weapons and ammunition like the Russian Armed Forces?
Judging by the previous remarks of Prigozhin (we have our own artillery, aviation, etc.) and the current statements of the fighters (so that the Defense Ministry continues to supply ammunition), some kind of contradiction arises.
Either you don’t have to yell that we have everything of our own, or stop complaining that they don’t supply you.
Maybe corny, the real INVESTOR (not Prigozhin) stopped paying?
---
It is possible that PMC Wagner will switch to FULL supply from the Ministry of Defense (get more modern equipment) and then the efficiency of the PMC will become even higher.

[begemot20091]

I, personally, do not care about the affiliation of PMCs. Fighting for the Russian Federation. This is the main thing. And you need to deal with the shell "hunger" - a warring country should not have problems at the front. We will dog after the victory. Few shells - one more plant to run or 2 plants. These men still Balts crotch pinching.

[flicker]

don't give a damn about PMC affiliation. Fighting for the Russian Federation. This is the main thing

I totally agree.

And you need to deal with the shell "hunger" - a warring country should not have problems at the front.

That's right, we need to figure it out, and not raise a negative wave in the media space.

[Lionov]

That's right. Some stilted iksperds believe that the resource of shells in the Russian Federation is simply inexhaustible. The same Stalin would have shot the Wagner artillerymen long ago for the misuse of ammunition. The question is where do they release them and for what purposes? there should have been a plowed field and not a single living soul.

[flicker]

And how to fight now further, how and who will liberate Artemovsk.
The generals were transferred to Russia, there were bureaucrats from the army.

Rogers reacted very precisely to this in his article on Conte

This war has already been won (moreover, what is most offensive for various "unrecognized geniuses", without their participation and contrary to their foolish ideas of how it should be won). It was won at the moment when, instead of a highly maneuverable war, our General Staff imposed a positional “standing” with an attrition war on the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Strictly by the textbook: Attrition warfare is a military strategy consisting of belligerent attempts to win a war by wearing down the enemy to the point of collapse through continuous losses in personnel and material.

Or in Russian: War of attrition is a military strategy consisting of successive attempts to win by bringing the enemy to the point of collapse through continued losses of personnel and materiel.
Ukrainian materiel has long been destroyed, the Soviet legacy of the former Warsaw Pact countries as well, now the remnants of Western stocks are depleted.

---
The task of taking cities is not the main one. The main task is to deplete the enemy, which includes not only the destruction of equipment and manpower, but also the reduction of the production capabilities of the rear (attacks on electrical substations).
---
Cities and settlements will be taken after the resistance of the enemy in it will be noticeably suppressed. What is happening at the front now.
So taking Artemovsk at any cost is just ruining the fighters.
Cut logistics instead of storming the city - from the same strategy of attrition of the enemy.

[Proton]

For many generals of the Arbat Military District, Prigozhin and the Wagners are very uncomfortable figures - they are not afraid of anyone, they fight boldly and effectively without regard to retrograde rules and regulations. If this continues, then these generals will not receive their gesheft in the form of orders, big stars and houses on the shores of the southern seas. That cuts off their oxygen.

[dmi.pris1]

I don’t want to wang, but no matter how the analogy with Strelkov turns out ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

I don’t want to wang, but no matter how the analogy with Strelkov turns out ...

I would not be surprised if, after the liberation of Artemovsk by the Wagners, they are accused of not liberating it at all, but only helping to clean it up.

[Konstantin Cherny]

Strelkov is a fanatic, and Prigozhin is a businessman ... it will be different here

[flicker]

I don’t want to wang, but no matter how the analogy with Strelkov turns out.

With Strelkov, it’s still nothing, he turned into a popular blogger.

The main thing is not to get an analogy with Zelensky.
And this will be just a disaster for Russia.

[Vladimir80]

Most likely, the reason is that the true (!) goals of the war are the opposite of those that are voiced at concerts, nightingales sing on TV, etc. And even local (!) Achievements such as the capture of Artemovsk or Soledar are not needed (from the word at all).

[Hagakure]

I would not exaggerate the significance of the capture of Artemovsk and Soledar. These are small towns. Soledar - population 10 thousand people. Artyomovsk 70 thousand. For comparison, Mariupol and Kherson are approximately 450 thousand each with agglomerations. Mariupol was taken in two months. Artyomovsk take half a year. Debaltseve at one time took something from 24 thousand people in a month. And there they took not only him. Well, how are they going to take Kharkov in the Moscow Region now, for example, with a population of 1.4 million people, if they cannot take Ugledar with 14 thousand a year? Kyiv is almost three lyama. Here is Kyiv with three lyams and here is Ugledar with 14 thousand. Well, what are we talking about?

[Vladimir80]

Yes, "no one" wants to take anything, even Artem and Solidarity, after all the events of the past year, it becomes clear that "we" have set completely different goals in this war ...

[flicker]

For many generals of the Arbat Military District, Prigozhin and the Wagners are very uncomfortable figures - they are not afraid of anyone, they fight boldly and effectively without regard to retrograde rules and regulations

The Russian Armed Forces and PMCs have different degrees of responsibility to the country.

So the losses of the Russian Armed Forces and the losses of PMCs are perceived by the population all the same in different ways.

PMCs can afford more risky operations than the Russian Armed Forces.

For example, we do not know the losses of PMCs during the storming of Soledar, the media and military correspondents do not cover this (the impression is that those who finance PMCs own many media resources).
What can not be said about the losses of the Russian Armed Forces - they quickly become public knowledge (as if the same media resources are specifically distributing them).
---
Let's not forget that the West's calculation is not based on the victory of Ukraine over Russia, but on the fact that our losses will be significant, and this will raise a negative anti-war wave, which will eventually destroy the country.

From here, the Russian Armed Forces are forced to fight in such a way as to minimize the loss of personnel.

---
For example, if the Russian Armed Forces take Avdeevka by storm within 1-2 days and at the same time suffer losses, say, up to 30000 people. Here is how the population will react to this success: will it be jubilant or will it be shocked by the losses? I think it's the last one.

What can not be said about PMC Wagner, about the losses of which no one says anything.
And yes, the Wagners are real pros during the assault.

[igorbrsv]

Does anyone know which supreme commander in chief they talk about all the time? About Stalin chtoli? There was no one else after him, but he died
What a supreme in peacetime
If there was one, maybe there would be no such indecency with the supply of shells.
In wartime, there would be a tribunal, and the powers of the president would be different.
Maybe the "funnel" would have rolled in a string. Black auruses, for example

[blackcat]

But what about the recent decree of the President and the Supreme Commander-in-Chief on centralized supplies of the Russian Defense Ministry?

[SaLaR]

Yes, judging by the development of events, the president is already just shining, not warming ...

[FoBoss_VM]

Well, apparently those who should do this put on this decree. With the device. Sometimes it seems to me that we do not have a president running the country, but a different group of people. Because there is no other way to explain what is happening.

[Vladimir80]

and another group of people

exactly! which cannot be touched despite the obvious harm to the country and the population ...

[fif21]

Quote: blackcat

centralized deliveries of the RF Ministry of Defense?

They still (for a year) cannot legally resolve the issue with PMCs! Recognize it or not! It is not included in the structure of the Moscow Region. Or am I wrong?

[Force]

And what does “PMC Wagner” have to do with the RF Ministry of Defense?
Now some general will give an order to provide shells, and then the Military Prosecutor's Office will come to him and ask: On what basis did you send the shells?
Guess what will happen to this general ...

[DMFalke]

At a minimum, the PMC fulfills a state order for state purposes, for which they are apparently given both aviation and tanks, including shells. It's like hiring a team of builders and not buying building materials - "well, I paid you - build it."

[Force]

How can a company that is formally outlawed carry out state order on the territory of the Russian Federation?
I would rather believe in the version that Wagner was told: “If you want to participate, it’s not a question, participate, but all the toys are at your expense.”

[K9_SWAT]

And who told you that Wagner is outside the law? The fact that the name has a PMC? And what? Just a name! After all, there is a private security company "Novorossia". With the same tasks, with the same weapons.

[DenD]

Guess what will happen to this general.
Yes, there will be nothing. On the condition that "lubricate the rear parts of the bureaucratic machine with petroleum jelly" and hint where the thickest shaft will be inserted, the wheels will spin much faster, and the machine will start to work much more efficiently

[tihon4uk]

This is a real betrayal and traitors are sitting in the highest positions in the RF Ministry of Defense. But why they are not serving a life sentence is a big question! For 10 years, one comrade ruined the entire army and he will not get anything for it, because he is a true friend!

[Ruby]

And who will plant them? In order for such people, and they undoubtedly exist in small numbers, to sit down, some force is needed with different views on the structure of the country. Do you see her? Me not.

[next322]

yes ... you see, the environment of plywood doesn’t like Prigogine much ..... probably the tank biathlons and parades will end soon

[evgen1221]

With all sorts of intelligence, unfriendly local natives, and the Hymars, organizing supplies and warehouses is no easy task. They supply as best they can, war (s) and not ceremonial exercises.

[al3x]

How can they? Those who can only in this way should be allowed to feed the pigs.

[flicker]

organizing supplies and warehouses is not an easy task.

The problem may be different: PMCs must independently pay for weapons and ammunition.
Otherwise, you can yell for a long time like "we are a separate army."
If the supply of PMC Wagner was entirely on the Russian Ministry of Defense, then why was it necessary to yell that we have our own artillery of all calibers, our own aviation, etc.
And the ammunition, it turns out, is supplied by the Ministry of Defense?
Should this be dealt with?
Secondly, even if there was a hitch in this matter, then why yell about it?
---
Surprisingly, in January, Peskov announced an important speech by Putin on January 18, in a couple of days Prigozhin burst out screaming about the fight against the "Kremlin tower".
Now the same thing is about to take place, an important speech by Putin and again the cries of Prigozhin that the Moscow Region is not supplying ammunition to PMC Wagner.
---
PMC "Wagner" - these are real fighters and fight perfectly.
Just remember, PMC "Wagner" ≠ Prigozhin.

[K9_SWAT]

Why are you clinging to the Wagners, ho-hol or what?
They have their own weapons, but the shells go through the MO. Because state defense order. And PMCs are forced to buy through plywood.
This is my version, if anything!

[wladimirjankov]

PMCs must independently pay for weapons and ammunition

Do you think this PMC is on contract with the state? Then why doesn't the latter pay this company for its "services"? And now he does not supply her with ammunition? The fighters who are registered and work in this company are now fighting, shedding blood and dying not for her, not for the good, but for the state, for Russia, for our security, and the country is obliged to provide them with everything necessary for this free of charge and also say thank you. Pay for ammo. This is such nonsense and provocation. And such statements really need to be "understood"

[Alexander X]

The prosecutor's office should urgently deal with the facts of such blatant sabotage of support for the warring units. And, regardless of the epaulettes of the defendants, eliminate the saboteurs. I have only unprintable expressions against traitors!
After reading on a telegram channel yesterday about the sabotage of ammunition supplies, I thought it was a fake. The betrayal seemed so incredible...

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Not only the prosecutor's office should be involved. Ukrainian and trans-Ukrainian agents also need to be identified. Difficult questions sometimes have simple answers.

[Silver99]

Well, where is the Supreme Commander with his rhetoric that the army should not need anything? To the wall behind the shed of all the rear men at the expense, but rather to the front line by loaders from the "musicians"

[Force]

PMC "Wagner" has nothing to do with the army (MO RF).
On what legal basis should the RF Ministry of Defense provide PMCs with shells?
I do not quite understand…

[K9_SWAT]

And who told you that plywood Wagner provides for free?

[fax66]

Now the collection of funds from citizens "For ammunition for PMC" Wagner "would go with a bang.

[al3x]

Well, now the picture becomes more clear why this whole canoe has been going on for a year. We now have a criminal case for the truth, so everyone is silent. Of course, it is better to be silent than to seize the deadlines. Come on, Prigozhin, burn the truth of the uterus. The people of Russia also have the right to know how things really are. And not like an empty talk Konashenkov broadcasts.

[igorbrsv]

If they had imprisoned for the truth, then Prigogine would have already been imprisoned. That's for Konashenkov - they can put an empty breeze. Just for empty talk and slander. Konashenkov read reports. And he was not caught lying.
The supply of shells will be dealt with without our idle talk.

[hellcos]

Everyone is equal before the law, but some are more equal. Prigozhin is one of the second, because mercenarism and all sorts of PMCs are prohibited by law, but respected people can. So under the current government, he will not sit anywhere

[fax66]

There is such an old joke, if anyone remembers: "So you decide, do you need checkers or go ...?"
So you, too, have already decided what is more important - victories on the battlefield or "legally" to issue the status of PMC "Wagner"?

[hellcos]

There is such an old joke, if anyone remembers: "So you decide, do you need checkers or go ...?"

I did not write a word in my message about my attitude to the activities of PMCs. I wrote that if they wanted, Prigozhin would have been imprisoned, but this will not happen in the current scenario

[K9_SWAT]

1) There are idiots who are told that Wagner is the same mercenaries as officers and contractors of the RF Armed Forces. They work for the state represented by PMC Wagner.
2) Who told you that PMCs are banned? It's just a private security company with the name PMC.

[Kronos]

In general, Konashenkov was convicted of lying more than once.

[igorbrsv]

. In general, Konashenkov was convicted of lying more than once.

You don’t confuse him with Peskov?
Konashenkov only reads the text. How can he lie somewhere

[Archivist Vasya]

Konashenko = Arestovich, one of them tells (already told) fairy tales; another with a serious bugger reads out the figures drawn by us, for example, he destroys the Hymars every week! But for some reason, there is no confirmation. And if you remember the Kharkov "regrouping" in the fall ... according to the plan, of course, well, well. Natural pest.

[igorbrsv]

Firstly, Konashenkov is not equal to Arestovich. Konashenkov does not decide anything, he reads. So Levitan can then be blamed. Secondly - the target is hit and the target is destroyed, there are different things. Struck - can be restored, destroyed - that's all, we cross it out. I counted 14 highmars. Just like destroyed before and destroyed from above. Up to 100 nationalists - this is from 1 to 100. Over 100 - at least 101 and to infinity
When we read or listen, we do not delve into the details. And then we are surprised. And the whole point is in them, in the details. It's like taking out a loan and not reading the fine print.

[Vladimir80]

Up to 100 nationalists is from 1 to 100.

it's from 0 to 100.... maybe -10 or -20... what kind of honest people are you defending, thank you!!!
ps "targets hit" - this is also not destroyed, but "targets surprised"

[igorbrsv]

What do you mean protect. I have an Internet speed (and the whole country go) up to 1 terabit. And in fact, I can not always open the page. You are deceiving yourself by not attaching importance to prefixes, suffixes and small print. Then you are surprised. They've been bending us like this since 91. Why were you all born yesterday? I don't defend. It's hard to surprise me.

[flicker]

Come on, Prigozhin, burn the truth of the uterus.

Aren't you afraid that Prigozhin is a Russian clone of Zelensky?

[K9_SWAT]

Here is personally fearing for your mental health. Wagner really bugs you! How much did you pay?

[glock-17]

At the beginning it was forbidden to recruit convicts, and now the shells are blocked. Obviously, Prigogine got in the way of someone with his directness and popularity among the people.

[Dmitry Karabanov]

And, of course, Putin knows nothing. In my opinion, Prigogine is simply being "leaked" - otherwise he has become very popular. This is reminiscent of the undisguised "suffocation" of Grudinin, who dared to compete with Putin in the elections. Does anyone else have doubts about the maniacal fear of at least some competition from the elderly president? We think that Russia cannot lose? But they thought the same way under "Tsar-Boris" and under Nicholas II ...

[Vladimir80]

I think there is already a well-established scheme for how to turn an obvious "failure" into a "victory" ... and we also laughed at Ukrainians with their "victories"!

[flicker]

In my opinion, they just "leak" Prigogine

And the thought did not arise that Prigozhin is as independent as Zelensky?

[K9_SWAT]

And where in our world have you seen completely independent people? Everyone walks under someone or is friends with someone. No one will pull alone.

[Kronos]

In my opinion, on the contrary, there can be no thought of victory against Ukraine with the support of all NATO countries and the United States.

[Cartalon]

Well, Prigozhin ran into the generals, the generals ran into Prigozhin, these guys don’t understand the campaign at all, what threatens them with defeat, it’s more and more like WWI.

[Plate]

I agree, some kind of idiotic undercover game, into which Prigogine decided to fit in for some reason, although he seemed to be demonstrating himself free from this policy.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Everyone understands everything. Agents must be identified, those who work for the United States and Ukraine. So Serbia, during the collapse of Yugoslavia, lost its territories, Croats and Bosnians were in power and command, who ensured the defeat.

[Konstantin Cherny]

"what threatens them with defeat" so what?

[Cartalon]

Well, I wrote, it looks like WWI, that's it.

[Alexey Alekseev_5]

Maybe there is an accumulation of ammunition before an offensive on some sector of the front? Why panic then.

[igorbrsv]

By the way, original thought. Everything can be. Now we can only guess

[Hagakure]

Why accumulate the new if the old has not been brought to mind. Take already, finally, this Artyomosk, and then accumulate.

[igorbrsv]

Is it just for Wagner? Take Artemovsk. And what about Seversk, Avdeevka, Marinka, Ugledar...?

[Nord2015]

Is this the MO's jealousy for Wagner's success? There are more and more questions for our generals.

[Hagakure]

Yes, shell hunger is everywhere. It's not just the Wagners who have this problem. They are just the bravest guys and were not afraid to voice it. The stock of Soviet ammunition before the SVO was something like 18 million units. Back in January, the balance figure of 2,5 million units was announced. At 40 thousand tons per month, only heavy ammunition was spent in the summer. And there are more than 20 units in a ton. I have already said that all these "three shifts" are dust in the eyes. If Russia produced 5000 shells per month before the SVO, and it is necessary to increase production by 200 times, then you simply cannot achieve this. I can where I confuse the bit depth of numbers, because I quote only what I heard, but nevertheless.

In the end what? Spring or summer will come. The shells will finally run out. Ukraine will be given military equipment, equipped with Western remnants of shells, and they will roll towards Russia as they rolled under Balakleya. Well, it's obvious. For a whole year, smart people were babbling about the mobilization of the economy, and they were considered traitors and tspsoshniki. In our Avdeevka direction, they have recently begun to shoot noticeably more, but not by much. There is no summer noise yet. And the noise of the last March-April is even more so. Although they shoot more often than in the first half of January. But this is still not enough.

Yes, perhaps a big offensive is being prepared and shells are being protected under it, but something is hard to believe.

[glock-17]

If this is shell hunger, then the Supreme will have to go to bow to North Korea. Being left without shells is not an option.

[fax66]

No, he is not up to it ... He should go to open some kind of youth creative centers with a patriotic orientation .... and move thoughts - they say, "We have not started yet ..." Although everyone has been waiting for a long time - when and how will we finish?

[igorbrsv]

If, as you say, up to 5000 shells were produced per month, now it is 20. This is just three shifts. We can't reach a million for sure. But it is possible to double production. True, even now we seem to be manufacturing more shells than any other country in the world

[Mol_18]

If, as you say, up to 5000 shells were produced per month, now it is 20. , and at the same time, the Ramstein campaign increases the production of a 155 mm caliber projectile to 450. What makes me laugh the most in this situation is, as on the first channel and Russia 1, they say that everything will end in NATO in a short time, and they will not be able to help Ukraine

[igorbrsv]

. Rammstein increases production of 155 mm shells to 450

This is in their long-term plans, as in Yuesei. But only this is per year figures. We now have 250 a year. Was. Old equipment across the country will also be scraped up by pensioners, and production will be increased by a factor of two. But then ... This already depends on many factors. Yes, and the United States will be able to increase it, but I'm not sure about Rammstein.

[Mol_18]

Yes, and the United States will be able to increase it, but I’m not sure about Rammstein.

, on military review, they wrote that Ramstein was increasing the purchase of tungsten, which he uses in shells. But it all depends on whether the money goes to the military-industrial complex.

[igorbrsv]

Sorry. I made a mistake in the comments. The estimated production of large-caliber artillery shells in the Russian Federation, before the start of the SVO, is about 2 million pieces per year. The current output is about 6 million pieces. Daily consumption of about 20 thousand pieces. The need for artillery shells with the current consumption of ammunition is about 7 million pieces per year.

[Hagakure]

The rich is not the one who has a lot, but the one who has enough. If you cannot provide the necessary volumes, then it absolutely does not matter how many times you will be missed. It is simply a vessel into which water is poured from one end and poured from the other. And with such alignments, it is quite obvious that it will soon be empty. 20000 shells is nonsense. One battery easily lays down 1000. Now I hear a battle in the Avdeevka direction. Projectiles land on average at an intensity of one projectile per five seconds. How much ammunition do you think will fall in two or three hours of battle?

[wladimirjankov]

The main thing here is not how much, but where and where will they lie down? If they fall where they need to, then there will be enough shells for everyone. And if they just plow empty fields and make a lunar landscape out of them, as they did almost the whole year, then no "vessels" will be enough.

[Konstantin Cherny]

the point is when 90% of the shells go nowhere, only the barrels wear out, can we start producing steel and barrels on a Soviet scale to compensate ... and chemical plants, where half of the equipment is imported, and so it all stretches along the chain, the reserves of the USSR are not eternal and shells are just the least of the problems

[Center]

[Bully]

The information from Strelkov about the presence of serious contradictions between Prigozhin and Shoigu-Gerasimov, as well as his assumption about a possible sabotage by the leadership of the Moscow Region in relation to PMC "Wagner" is confirmed

[flicker]

about the presence of serious contradictions between Prigogine and Shoigu-Gerasimov

Prigozhin is not an independent subject, someone stands behind him (it is assumed that Arkady Rotenberg or Yuri Kovalchuk, it is possible that the Kahal).
And this WHO TO started the fight for victory in the elections of 2024.
In another language, SOMEONE is not bringing down Shoigu and Gerasimov, but is trying to discredit Putin, through the failures of the Moscow Region.

[dauria]

And this WHO TO started the fight for victory in the elections of 2024.

Well...a reasonable guess. Only the figure of Prigogine is so toxic, with such a dirty past. that Zelensky looks like a saint.
Yes, and without control over the security forces (FSB, police, Moscow Region), such an adventure cannot be pulled off.
But if our oligarchs strayed into opposing gangs, it's Russia's misfortune.

[Vladimir80]

started fighting for victory

conspiracy theories, elections with the introduction of electronic voting are not a problem, the United States is an example of this ... and there is a possibility that there will be no elections ... in any case, Prigozhin's independence seems to me higher than that of ......, but the dependence of him from the supply of arms and finances is of course high ...

[Hagakure]

In order for Putin not to be discredited through the failures of the Moscow Region, the Moscow Region simply needs to be more successful. It's simple. Why not take the entire Slavic-Kramatorsk agglomeration while little Wagner takes small Artemovsk? And the "correct" Defense Ministry, even near Svatovo, does not show great success. Tales about the genius of moving 2-3 km a week, and in the version back and forth, are rolled only for ordinary people with an IQ below 40. Maybe in order not to be accused of jambs, you just need not to mow, for example?
Or is it like that joke?

A man comes home, the house is smoky, some naked man climbs in the refrigerator in the kitchen, there is wine on the table, two drunk glasses. In the bedroom, on a bed with traces of a stormy night, lies his wife. She told him: "And here again you will believe your shameless eyes, and not your beloved wife ..."

[flicker]

In order for Putin not to be discredited through the failures of the Moscow Region, the Moscow Region simply needs to be more successful. It's simple. Why not take the entire Slavic-Kramatorsk agglomeration while little Wagner takes small Artemovsk?

This topic has already been discussed.
I repeat.
The Russian Armed Forces and PMCs have different degrees of responsibility to the country.

So the losses of the Russian Armed Forces and the losses of PMCs are perceived by the population all the same in different ways.

PMCs can afford more risky operations than the Russian Armed Forces.

For example, we do not know the losses of PMCs during the storming of Soledar, the media and military correspondents do not cover this (the impression is that those who finance PMCs own many media resources).
What can not be said about the losses of the Russian Armed Forces - they quickly become public knowledge (as if the same media resources are specifically distributing them).
---
Let's not forget that The calculation of the West is not based on the victory of Ukraine over Russia, but on the fact that our losses will be significant, and this will raise a negative anti-war wave, which will eventually destroy the country.

From here, the Russian Armed Forces are forced to fight in such a way as to minimize the loss of personnel. Less risk - less success, less loss.
There are no such restrictions for PMC Wagner. More risk - more success, more losses.

---
For example, if the Russian Armed Forces take Avdeevka by storm within 1-2 days and at the same time suffer losses, say, up to 30000 people. Here is how the population will react to this success: will it be jubilant or will it be shocked by the losses? I think it's the last one.

[igorbrsv]

I absolutely agree with you. PMC is not a charitable organization. It's the same way to make money. Only at the same time they are covered by the MO, and in return they perform dirty tasks.

[K9_SWAT]

You're really dob...b! If there are such losses, then the MO is to blame! And people do not care who died a volunteer, Wagnerian or mobilized! Sorry everyone! Everyone defends the Motherland! Everyone has the same responsibility! Got it, plywood lackey?

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

Don't give a damn. An incomparable difference. A mobilized person is a normal person, with a family and a job, a useful member of society. And many prisoners have terms of 15-20 years, in order to get such a term we need to be a complete monster who has absolutely no reason to live.

[wladimirjankov]

SOMEONE is trying to discredit Putin

No one needs to discredit him. He set himself up by appointing the MO of this Shoigu and the NGSH Gerasimov. And the latter did everything for this very discredit.

[K9_SWAT]

Remember, woodpecker, no one will ever be able to discredit the government except for herself! If the people do not believe the GDP, it is not because of Prigogine, but because of Putin himself!

[Arkadich]

That's just Strelkov as an expert should not be considered. I have no right to evaluate his successes or failures then, but now he reminds me of an offended child, since all of you bad guys didn’t take me.
There are almost always contradictions in any male team, especially in uniform.

[Million]

All the same, before the start of the NWO, it was necessary to restore order in high Moscow offices.
There are no less enemies than in Kyiv.

[Cynic]

Honestly? I was always surprised by our sincere belief that everything is BAD with us!
I think, YES, not everything is as good as we would like, but not everything is so bad! And to believe what is said publicly ...
The naive have not grown up yet, and so in life, there is never a lot of BC and no one, if Prigozhin said so, then it should have been said so!
Also, if anything, the presence \ lack of it is, so to speak, information not for everyone, think about the possible reasons for such a statement

There are very few cartridges, just few, and few, but no more can be carried away

[Kronos]

And I was always surprised by the naive belief that everything is fine.

[Hagakure]

I advise you to read Krylov's fable ending with the words: "And the chest just opened."

[megadeth]

What is written in the article simply does not fit into the head. Why don’t our Supreme High Command gather military correspondents, representatives of PMCs, volunteers and talk honestly and seriously about the problems that arise during the NWO. And also put representatives of the Ministry of Defense of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, who are responsible for the supply and other issues of the NWO, on chairs in a line.

[igorbrsv]

Well, we're definitely not going to be invited to this meeting. The party will be closed and its results will not be shown on the TV box
Therefore, there is no need to beat the head. We read, took into account, discussed (condemned), assumed and move on

[FoBoss_VM]

If a certain group of people will never allow such a conversation between real patriots and Putin. Simply because then he will find out information that is different and contradictory to that which is presented to him daily. And that doesn't work for them at all.

[Bulrumeb]

units of PMC "Wagner" are asking the Ministry of Defense to establish a normal supply of ammunition. According to the fighters, today the "musicians" are completely cut off from their supplies.

So they avenge the truth? It's all gross.

[Plate]

And what is the truth? That "only Wagner"? Well, they show clearly that it is not "only Wagner." I think Prigozhin tried to feather his nose with these statements, and now they decided to show him the place. The only pity is that ordinary fighters suffer from this. They could have explained the situation to him in a closed office with the participation of the FSB officers.

[Bulrumeb]

No need la-la. Just Prigozhin did not appropriate other people's merits, but on the contrary, he always says where the PMC fighters were and where they were not. But on the part of the Moscow Region, there were attempts to cling.

[Plate]

Well, apparently, they wanted him to always, when shouting "only Wagnerians are here," add "they are firing shells provided by the Moscow Region"

[flicker]

Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed the authenticity of the video about the problems with ammunition at PMC "Wagner"

And for what reasons?
Maybe because the INVESTOR (who has undertaken to financially support PMCs) is already refusing to pay for ammunition for PMCs?
---
I am sure that there will be no obstacles on the part of the Ministry of Defense for replenishing PMCs with ammunition.

[fif21]

Quote: flicker

I am sure that there will be no obstacles on the part of the Ministry of Defense for replenishing PMCs with ammunition.

They are already there.

[Plate]

The fighters are not to blame for all these political games, so I support them.
But Prigogine is also not without sin in this situation. I think it was not in vain that he shouted, they say, "only Wagner storms Soledar", "only Wagner provides for Bakhmut / Artyomovsk." And when the Moscow Region reported on this as a general success, they were poked, saying "only Wagner." "Well, only Wagner is just Wagner," they rightly reasoned there. I understand that playing politics in such a situation is not very correct, but Prigozhin was clearly trying to score a goal against someone with his "only Wagner". Didn't he think that they wouldn't try to score a response?
And the consumables in these games are ordinary soldiers. As always.

[Petya Kuzmin]

Shell hunger was like in World War 1, then there were also many private factories that sold shells to the state 10 times more expensive than those produced in state-owned factories. And there were many "persons close to the emperor", untouchables, who later betrayed him and arrested him.

[Khibiny Plastun]

You look at all this and understand the reasons for 37 years.
Now that wouldn't hurt either.
Wake up Great Stalin. The state has already been asked! Now they are asking for the remaining scraps of the State.
There are generals, but no commanders, there is a chatterbox president, but there is no ruler.

[voyaka uh]

Wagner doesn't have enough ammo, not because the MoD doesn't particularly like Wagner, but because there aren't enough ammo for everyone.

[Hagakure]

Quote: Vigore

I do not quite understand the outrage on the forum.
And on what legal basis should the RF Ministry of Defense PMC Wagner (a company that is outside the legal field in Russia) provide shells?
The general who gave such an order can sit down and ... and for a long time.

What makes you think that PMC "Wagner" is a structure outside the legal field of Russia? Do you still believe that this PMC is a private office? Are you really that naive? It is quite obvious that this is a structure under the FSB, the GRU or another secret special service of the Russian Federation. Can't you give them something? Is it true? How did they get it before? How did they get tanks, guns, attack aircraft? Is it possible to buy in Russia in any supermarket? You are broadcasting the same nonsense as the fact that Strelkov cannot be an FSB colonel. People appearing somewhere with masses of grenade launchers and MANPADS cannot but be agents of the special services. Otherwise, in Russia, on every corner, all the homeless would sleep in an embrace with grenade launchers. A
alms would be collected on tanks. Kapets! This is a secret organization under the special services of the Russian Federation. It is obvious. And the fact that they give it to you as a PMC is just part of the "legend".

[Kronos]

If you are an oligarch, and Prigozhin is an oligarch, then you can buy not only tanks.

[Force]

Fine…..
In this case, we are waiting for a refutation of the video about the lack of ammunition (there was a decision, the machinations of the CIPSO - in general, it doesn’t matter)
And "someone" should sit down for discrediting the army.
Just based on your post in this situation with a lack of shells, it turns out that, - MO, having gone to the party, “right in the middle of the hall publicly crap.”

[AUL]

Quote: Vigore

PMC "Wagner" has nothing to do with the army (MO RF).
On what legal basis should the RF Ministry of Defense provide PMCs with shells?
I do not quite understand…

T e to fight better than many others, and die at the same time, so it is legally, it is according to the law. But to provide shells, so there is no law?

[VladimirNET]

Quote: dauria

But the guys from the Moscow Region are bound by orders and they have no right to talk.

Therefore, LET Prigozhin say, maybe for the military from the RF Ministry of Defense - it will be useful (since their mouths are closed by "order"). The main thing is to win, and without information (passed up) it is more difficult:
if there is ammunition, there will be victory!

[Demon]

The strings were spoiled for the musicians so that they would not play so brightly and beautifully, this is understandable even for a hedgehog.
Interesting thing is

the combat general, who is in the hospital, allocated a small amount of 120-mm mines and tank shells from his own stocks

. It turns out that the generals have their own stocks of ammunition, which they dispose of at their discretion and can transfer them to private companies. And private companies can continue to do whatever they want with them. Who guarantees that there will not be some banned organization or martyr in place of the PMC?

[donavi49]

The general has his own ammunition - which is for the unit. So he can conditionally reduce the consumption (or, on the contrary, save up - roughly speaking, spending 20-30-100 shells / day with a supply rate of 300) and, under his own responsibility, transfer, for example, to the neighboring part, where the butt is or to the PMC. But if inside the army this is still regulated, then in the PMC it is actually Prigozhin who publicly drew a criminal for the general.

[Demon]

The stocks of the unit and own stocks are different concepts. The ammunition belongs to the MoD and its transfer to a neighboring unit that is part of the MoD is quite understandable.
The article deals with the transfer of a private organization, which is not officially subordinate to the Ministry of Defense.
Prigozhin officially announced that supplies had been cut to him, which means that the general did not have an order to transfer ammunition. It turns out that this is his personal initiative, I suspect that it is not gratuitous.
In fact, you can reduce the expense, but how to account for it? There is a rate of consumption of ammunition, if saved, then the pest, transferred the savings to third parties, doubly a pest.

[alexey_Murzin]

Well, the Chechens gave them ammunition. And why will the Chechens be imprisoned?)
Will they send them home?)) Yes, they will send anyone there and they will not get anything for it.
As for the Wagners, well, if they don't get shells, they will retreat. Then the discrediting of the army will be serious. Like they betrayed their own .. And taking into account the realities, if the Wagnerites retreat, and the Moscow Region is defeated, then it will already be bad for these touchy ones ...

[GRIGORIY76]

It seems that the generals at the top are draining ...
I will give the last comment of I.I. Strelkov:
Regarding Prigozhin's statement that the Russian Defense Ministry either stopped supplying the Wagner with ammunition altogether, or put the PMC "on a starvation ration":

1. Believe it or not, I was expecting something like this from day to day. I am even surprised that such a statement was made much later than the appointment of Fanerny's faithful mongrel - the cretin Gerasimov - to the post of commander-in-chief of the NWO. Even the thought arose - is Plywood really a little smarter than it seems from all his previous frills? - But, as you can see, Sergei Kuzhugetovich knows how to defend his reputation .... As for the rest, Wagner probably had problems with the supply of ammunition immediately after the dismissal of Surovikin, but the PMC held on and even continued to advance due to previously accumulated stocks.

2. What the position of the leadership of the RF Ministry of Defense is designed for is nowhere clearer: the goal is the complete subordination of the PMC "Wagner" to the structures of the RF Ministry of Defense either by reorganization and inclusion directly into the Armed Forces, or (at least) by changing the leadership. - Tolerate arrogance (that's how, I'm sure, Shoigu perceives Prigozhin's activities) and competition Plywood Marshal does not categorically intend to - it calls into question his status as "crown prince".

3. I don’t gloat even once (because I can imagine what it’s like for the front line soldiers in the “hottest” direction at the moment). I also consider it below my dignity to even discuss in absentia with Prigozhin about anything ("not a horse's fodder"). But for the reader, I remind you that it was precisely the critical problems with ammunition (which I DID NOT GIVE) that forced me, for example, to first leave Slavyansk before the enemy completed the complete encirclement of our garrison (and the encirclement itself took place primarily due to an acute shortage of weapons and ammunition), and then - served as the main argument for my untimely "voluntary" resignation in the encircled Donetsk (where, however, they managed to drag convoys with weapons and equipment along the field roads for the "Vostok", "Oplot" garrison of Gorlovka - but not for Slavic brigade).
Let's see what Prigogine does.
While the Wagner (thank God!) is not surrounded, however, 140 mortar 120-mm mines and 20 tank shells "donated" by Apti Alaudinov - with such a heat of battle and such a number of combat units - this is never funny, but very sad. There can be no question of any continuation of offensive operations in such a situation - God forbid that the positions achieved be maintained at the expense of internal reserves.

4. If the situation with the supply of "Wagner" does not change, one can safely forget about the complete mastery of Bakhmut for the near future, and in general.

5. I don’t know if Prigozhin’s statements were heard in Novo-Ogaryovo, but respected Kyiv partners heard them for sure. And they drew the appropriate conclusions. We should expect their counterattacks in Bakhmut and its environs, until "they come to their senses" in Moscow.

6. Shoigu once again (hundredth? thousandth?) times confirmed that he does not care about everything except personal ambitions - on people's lives, on "foreign" military successes, on the outcome of the war. Therefore, I recall my recent answer to the question: "Shoigu or Prigozhin?" - "Both are worse!"

7. Objectively, as the Shoigu-Prigozhin conflict grows, the internal political situation in the Russian Federation continues to heat up due to the complete self-removal of the president from the duties of the supreme commander in chief (and, possibly, not only from them).

[Konstantin Cherny]

strange, and not a single question to the supreme commander in chief Putin))))

[Vladimir80]

Do not interfere with a person to prepare for the message of sf.

[flicker]

strange, and not a single question to the supreme commander in chief Putin))))

But all the blows, albeit indirectly, but on him.
All attacks on the Defense Ministry are attacks on Putin, on the political line pursued by him for the independence of Russia.
They want to throw him away, and then come to an agreement with the West.

[Vladimir80]

They want to throw it

and who appoints all these who want?

[decimalegio]

I don't like everything he says, but I admire that Mr. Prigozhin doesn't hide from problems.

[dontsov.an]

On one side of the scale is the success of military operations, the lives and health of fighters. And on the other, the likelihood of getting a reprimand, not getting another big star for shoulder straps, a position for violating any bureaucratic procedure to justify the allocation of BC and other supplies for PMCs. Guess what is more important for a parquet general or a MO official?

[flicker]

Guess what is more important for a parquet general or a MO official?

Guess what is more important for Prigozhin and the forces that move him on the "political chessboard of Russia"?

[Servisinzhener]

And immediately in the comments, local marshals severely tightened:
Sold, sold.
Sold, sold.
Sold sold.
Motherland.
In general, if you put aside emotions, it is very similar to a lure for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The PMCs that are storming Artyomovsk have no shells. The conflict between PMCs and the Moscow Region has gone public. Video message of ordinary fighters. And even Prigozhin himself about how he unsuccessfully knocks on the thresholds of high offices, but cannot get ammunition. What does it look like? On the situation in which the Kiev regime is cooked every day.
Let's assume this is true. Then what should the APU do? Of course, collect everything that is in the area and conduct a counterattack to push the PMCs away from Artyomovsk. With the appropriate media company, as they like it on Bankovaya. In order to receive not so much military as media bonuses, which Zelensky and his company really need now. At the same time push Zaluzhny and push Syrsky.
But there may be a double bottom. If they trample on the offensive, and the conflict between PMCs and the Moscow Region turns out to be a bluff. The offensive will be repulsed with heavy losses for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Which will lead to the impossibility of further holding the area. There will simply be no one to defend Artyomovsk. Which makes the task easier for us. it will not be necessary to pick all these invaders from basements and trenches.
In general, time will tell how it really is.

[Vladimir80]

looks like a lure for the APU

Do you really believe in these fairy tales?
the same propaganda nonsense was printed after the retreat from raisins, Kherson and from near Kharkov!

[Servisinzhener]

I do not believe, but I admit this option. Yes, I remember what mouthpieces wrote about "high-speed regroupings." BUT! I also remember about the blow with a sledgehammer. Where was the video. And there seems to be some doubt. A few months later it turned out that nothing happened. I believe that this was a demonstration action to maintain discipline among the recruited prisoners. Of course, I am not familiar with Prigogine, but in my opinion this person is not simple. And he can easily throw it away.

[Vladimir80]

unlike us, khokh.ly have enough intelligence tools so as not to be distracted by the collection of intelligence information on the Internet

[Servisinzhener]

You are right, all NATO intelligence works for them.
And here is what the Ukrainian channel Resident wrote today:

In addition, they took Paraskovievka. I doubt very much that only due to 128 mines to the mortar and 40 tank shells. About which Prigozhin spoke on Friday.

[Strannik96]

That's right, the Internet has been and remains the best means of disinformation when soldiers at the front put on YouTube info that they do not have enough ammunition. So you can shoot and expose good topics for VO on YouTube. Not a bad business, what is there to laugh at grandmothers when they find some nonsense, like with soda, and the treatment has begun - swallow soda with spoons

[flicker]

Of course, collect everything that is in the area and conduct a counterattack to push the PMCs away from Artyomovsk

And this is not at all excluded.
Suppose an INVESTOR (not to be confused with Prigozhin) stopped paying for the purchase of ammunition as before. What will the Wagner fighters do in the absence of ammunition?
Will be forced to retreat.
And here the op will begin that the Moscow Region is to blame for everything, and not the "cunningly opy" INVESTOR (not to be confused with Prigozhin).
All the media, military correspondents, bloggers lured by this "cunning" INVESTOR will begin to howl that the Moscow Region has leaked PMC Wagner.
---
It looks like the fight for the "armchair 2024" has begun.

[Servisinzhener]

After February 22, the struggle is not visible even under a microscope.

[Bingo]

This, by the way, is also one of the aspects of the lack of legal regulation - the status of PMCs. They are nobody.
This situation, of course, will be resolved in the working order, but without official status - it's only a matter of time when it pops up again

[Pavel_Sveshnikov]

Lived up. Looks like the stocks of the SSR are over. They had just a year of active fighting. And new release could not be increased. At least they smeared evenly along the entire front of the BC. And then again you have to retreat. You can't fight without BC.

[Nastia makarova]

who said they don't exist? The Ministry of Defense limited the supply to Wagner, this is what we are talking about

[FoBoss_VM]

I talked with the infantry of the 155th Guards Brigade MP Tof, there are not enough shells, this is a fact. Limit the amount per trunk, rzso and sunbathing is the same. So the problem is common, only Prigozhin decided to voice it out loud

[voyaka uh]

Not all shell calibers are over.
The howitzer caliber 122 ended. The main caliber 152 was not enough.
Ukrainians noted among unexploded shells
or very very
old or brand new straight from the factory. Previously found shells of all years.
There were many high-explosive tank shells left.
Therefore, tanks were often used as self-propelled guns.
- from closed positions.

[Pavel_Sveshnikov]

Since they themselves could not arrange production, then at least it was possible to buy in China or India. Well, or in North Korea, finally.

[wladimirjankov]

no one will sell us anything now. You need to rely only on yourself, well, maybe Lukashenka will be able to plant something for writing off loans and debts.

[mlad]

Here on the forum, even before the start of the military operation, they wrote about the destruction of the factories for the production of shells, and only once recently they mentioned that one was opened, and dozens of them are needed, but now where to get the equipment that has been lost. Guess who's to blame for this

[9PA]

Strange, of course, PMCs, heavy weapons are the prerogative of the state

[Bulrumeb]

Does the PMC fight for its own, private interests, or is it for the interests of the state?

[nason]

You do not assume that private interests may coincide with the interests of the state?

[Vlvl]

Without a common victory, personal interests are negligible. And it's too early to share any interests.

[nason]

Maybe a public-private partnership in the military sphere: PMCs are professionally trained personnel with equipment, and the state provides them with support with heavy weapons, the interests of the state, of course, which must be returned after completing tasks, if not irretrievably lost during hostilities.

[Alexey G]

Well done Prigogine! Not silent! I hope Solovyov has already been called! Let the whole country trumpet! This problem cannot be ignored!

[Berg berg]

Of course, you cannot be hushed up, and therefore you need to be sent to a military enterprise that you have increased the production of ammunition with your work at the machine!

[Pavel Pavlovskiy]

Let's work, video, PR, Wagner didn't do that before. Instagram reports, phones.

[UAZ 452]

I’m more interested in how the supply of ammunition, weapons, military equipment is carried out from the arsenals of the Defense Ministry of PMCs, which, from the point of view of Russian legislation at the moment, not only do not exist, but they are absolutely illegal, an article is provided for their creation and service in them .
Well, there is always not enough ammunition, especially if you just shoot in the direction of the enemy, without normal reconnaissance and target designation. However, this misfortune is even more pronounced for parts of the Defense Ministry than for PMCs. The arsenals go to the "lunar landscape", and therefore the art warehouses began to show the bottom. And we are also proud to write that we have long spent more missiles alone than the United States had enough to completely defeat the Iraqi army.

[Berg berg]

If Russia cannot fully provide the Wagnerites with ammunition, then how can a private organization make direct contacts with the DPRK and buy ammunition from them by barter!

[nason]

For disrupting the supply of warring units with ammunition, they must be brought to trial, including the Minister of Defense, the parquet general Shoigu. But ... we are in Russia and he is a companion of the commander-in-chief for taiga fishing. Nepotism, so reverently nurtured by Putin, will destroy the country if it is not stopped by the most stringent measures, regardless of positions, titles and past merits.