A completely different BMP

203
A completely different BMP
Appearance of a hypothetical infantry fighting vehicle with external placement of troops. Drawing by A. Sheps


... and behold, a pale horse,
and on it is a rider,
whose name is death.

Revelations of Saint John the Evangelist

Technology of tomorrow. When the first infantry fighting vehicles were created, the concept of war was very different from the modern one. It was believed that the war would be nuclear, with the use of nuclear weapons directly on the battlefield, and tanks will have to wade through the "atomic jungle". Naturally, to escort tanks, combat vehicles of equal cross-country ability were required, capable of finishing off what was left after the tanks with their weapons, and at the same time transporting a certain amount of infantry.



This is how the BMP-1 appeared, armed with a 73-mm Thunder cannon and a Malyutka missile, and its paratroopers could fire through the embrasures on the sides. And, most likely, such a machine would do just fine with the task of finishing off the surviving enemy equipment after nuclear strikes. But it had to be applied in completely different conditions.

New conditions - new car. This is how the BMP-2 appeared with a 30-mm automatic cannon, which is also capable of firing at high-lying targets.

Well, today we see the result of the entire previous period of development of the BMP - the BMP-3 and the T-15 and Kurganets vehicles. Both are heavily protected, since the price of a soldier’s life has grown significantly since that time, hung with containers of dynamic protection, all kinds of sensors and KAZs. But, as before, the paratroopers are located inside these vehicles, they land through the aft door and ... now they cannot shoot at the enemy through the side embrasures.

It is quite obvious that the next step is the creation of a fundamentally new BMP that meets the requirements of today - very well protected both from mines and from the fire of heavy enemy infantry fighting vehicles, and as comfortable as possible for the paratroopers riding on it.

So let's fantasize a little on this topic and imagine a fundamentally new infantry fighting vehicle, not at all the same as those that were before ...

Let's start with the fact that the creators of the new "heavy BMP" should keep in mind that one of the ways to increase the security of any combat vehicle is to reduce its internal volume. Then less heavy armor will go on it, or with the same weight it can be made correspondingly thicker. But ... people inside the BMP breathe! Moreover, a person inhales about eight liters of air per minute, and exhales no less, only his exhalation contains a lot of carbon dioxide.

Meanwhile, only 1% of CO2 in the air is enough to lead to a loss of crew performance, and its concentration of 10% is fatal for a person! This means that the requirement for frequent air exchange in the tank and BMP conflicts with the speed of its flow supplied to the workplace - a draft in the car guarantees pneumonia and other colds, as well as allergies. But after all, it also receives combustion products from expendable ammunition, which is why their timely suction is very important, otherwise there will be nothing to breathe inside at all!

A sufficient internal volume is also needed, even at the cost of some reduction in security.

And another important point, but where to put the feces? After all, if in the tank they accumulate from three people, then there are much more people in the BMP! And the fact that a tired and exhausted person is unlikely to be able to act as effectively as one who is not tired and has at hand everything necessary for his life is obvious.

Therefore, maybe it would be worth thinking about ... not putting the BMP crew inside the vehicle at all, because no armor will save them there anyway ?! After all, the experience of local conflicts has already shown that infantry is often located on armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles! And it is obvious that she has every reason for this. Well, let's just build such a machine!

It can be arranged as follows: there are only three people in the car body - the driver, commander and weapons operator, located in the body and the turret. The bottom is a powerful three-dimensional platform with a V-shaped armor plate inside against anti-bottom mines. In front of and behind the commander's and driver's seats, the entire space of the car is, again, a volume filled with polyurethane foam and fuel tanks - a structure. The engine and transmission are located on the platform, that is, in an elevated position above the bottom.

A rising ramp is installed above the tower, and on it is a fully automated module with weapons, which can be raised and lowered with its help. Armament can be quite traditional: a 30–35 mm cannon and two containers for rockets, while the magazine for it can be placed not in the combat module itself, but in the same ramp, which will significantly increase its capacity. The module can then be raised and lowered. When raised, the tower can rotate 360 ​​degrees. Being fully lowered, fire at 180 in the forward hemisphere.

Thanks to such an installation of weapons, the new BMP will be able to conduct effective fire from behind shelters, ravines, thickets and fences, while hitting the vehicle itself will be completely impossible. That is, in this way the main contradiction of any combat vehicle is solved: it must be high in order to see and hit the enemy from afar, and at the same time extremely low so that ... they don’t hit it.

However, the main thing in the BMP is still its landing force. So what about him?

And it will be located on both sides of the engine and the turret ramp, and will be located ... in individual armored capsules at the level of the fenders. Each such capsule will be a real “armored nest” with a double-leaf door made of massive armor plates that reliably protect the fighter from all types of small arms fire. The shooter himself fires from it over this armored shield, as if from behind the parapet of a trench, so that only one of his helmets is visible. Above the head is an armored roof with a visor. Instead of ventilation, there is a curtain of air that is supplied from under this roof. And in winter - the air is always warm!

No observation devices that limit the field of view, special loopholes for firing and fans for removing powder gases are no longer needed in this case. The seat is equipped with a container for ... waste. So a paratrooper will be able to stay inside such a vehicle for a very long time and he will not need any screens (which are now offered by designers in order to fence off a place for a toilet bowl in an infantry fighting vehicle)!

Everything simple and natural is always very reliable and effective! At the same time, each fighter sees the other, does not lose the "feeling of the elbow" and, if necessary, can provide assistance to a comrade. Four such fighters from each side will be able to bring down a shower of fire on the enemy, while it will be almost pointless to shoot at them in response: you won’t get into the engine, and to disable the fighters of this BMP one at a time with the help of RPGs - so there won’t be enough ammunition!

Well, how then to land? Open the door and jump?

No, because in heavy equipment, an extra burden on a soldier should be avoided! It's just that all four seats on both sides are connected together on one beam, and in this case, a hydraulic manipulator lowers it directly to the ground along with the fighters. All at once and at the same time, so the time for alternately leaving the car through the back door is not spent at all! Naturally, each of them has a “button” for controlling this manipulator, so that at any time all the capsules can either be lowered or raised so that the fighters do not have to make unnecessary tiring body movements.


The layout of the crew and troops in a hypothetical infantry fighting vehicle. Added two seats in the back to bring the total number of troops transported to 10 people. Drawing by A. Sheps

This design of the machine provides it with almost 100% protection against anti-bottom mines. It turns out that it is absolutely impossible to disable it at one time, while it can fight not only in the field, but also in the city, fire on the upper floors of buildings, and shoot over fences and barricades!

The only question is how much such an innovative design may appeal to the military and designers, and whether the latter will be able to embody it in metal, and the former ... overcome the conventionality in views and judgments that is usually characteristic of all military?!
203 comments
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  1. +7
    16 February 2023 05: 15
    When a mine explodes, the BMP crew and everyone inside receive severe shell shock and are then unable to conduct a normal battle ... all the time people sit down on top of the BMP hull ... which, as shown by the SVO, is also deadly ... UAVs in conjunction with artillery new trend of the times. what
    Here is the dilemma.
    1. +32
      16 February 2023 12: 01
      To use a man in an iron box as a bulwark for an armored vehicle is, of course, original, but something in it is not right ...
      1. +29
        16 February 2023 15: 53
        This is not "not that" but lutobred. Increasing the profile and designating targets for the enemy without increasing security or fighting qualities. Another tin can, only worse. The future infantry-infantry fighting vehicle of the battlefield based on serial obt.
        1. +18
          16 February 2023 19: 38
          Individual "coffins" are also the inability to help a wounded comrade, which will not add optimism to the soldiers. The armor between the "coffins" is overweight.
          bottom - a powerful three-dimensional platform with a V-shaped armor plate inside against anti-bottom mines.

          That is, when undermined, the shock wave goes to the lower covers of the "coffins".
          A rising ramp is installed above the tower,

          The name of Durlyakher, it was already like that. The main trouble with bearings is that they do not like shock loads across the axis. It turns out dents, the rolling bodies lose their roundness, and so with each shot. By the way, the price of the annular bearing "shoulder strap" of the tank turret is a significant part of the total price of the vehicle. That is why assault guns are easier and faster to produce. And the BMPT turret is equipped with so many weapons - more mass of the turret, less harm to bearings.
          The author is great at materials on history, but the preliminary projects of military equipment are enchanting, they probably need to be translated into English and sent to the Pentagon under the guise of reports from spies, let them suffer over repetition this.
          1. +2
            16 February 2023 22: 35
            An unsuccessful projector is also a function. You still have to try.
        2. +1
          17 February 2023 19: 43
          Master2030 (Ivan)This is not "not that" but lutobred.
          Recently, "authors" who are vintage gas generators have been raving, and sharing their nonsense on the site ...
      2. +6
        16 February 2023 16: 36
        Quote: Bad_gr
        but there is something wrong with her..
        Not that, very much zinc coffins-containers for the load "200" reminds ... Wherever it goes, if, like an old Russian boat, such a machine was covered with armored shields, behind which the landing force would hide.
        1. -10
          16 February 2023 17: 09
          Quote: Per se.
          such a machine was covered with armored shields, behind which the landing force would hide

          Can't you read? It's just that she's covered by shields that swing open like doors.
          1. +5
            16 February 2023 17: 29
            that open like doors.

            Like the doors shown in the figure, it is impossible - they will jam even from the blast wave, not to mention from ... As an alternative for your project - a reclining armored ladder.
          2. +4
            17 February 2023 00: 32
            Quote: kalibr
            Can't you read? It's just that she's covered by shields that swing open like doors.

            A monstrously irrational layout scheme ... it’s a sin to even discuss such a thing. Have you tried to look at least the BMP-3M "Dragoon" or "Manul" as the basis for your fantasies? WITH FRONT placement of MTO and NORMAL troop compartment? And there is no need for any wild fantasies. Although this is a FLOATING, that is, a WEAKEN version of the BMP. Even if the "Dragoon" or "Manul" with side screens have armor at the level of the notorious (but monstrously expensive) "Kurganets-25".
            Already without a week, the YEAR of the NWO is going on, which, in terms of the fierceness and density of fire on the LBS, is even heavier than that density in WWII. And the survivability of light FLOATING (and they didn’t do anything else in the USSR) armored vehicles proved their complete failure ... it cannot ensure the safe delivery of l / s to the dismounting line. It cannot ensure reliable evacuation of the landing force and the wounded under enemy fire, if the enemy has something more than an ordinary rifle ... But they HAVE.
            Therefore, the way out is TBTR based on the MBT chassis and with MBT armor.
            WITH FRONT MTO placement!
            With a stern (!!) ramp or armored door.
            With side screens and dynamic protection from the forehead and sides!
            ONLY such an TBTR will meet all the requirements of the time and modern warfare. And floating armored vehicles should be no more than 25% of the total number of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. And yes - TBMP is not needed, its role will be completely fulfilled by the existing BMPT "Terminator" or "Terminator-2" (BMPT-72).
            And OBT!
            As a combat module on the TBTR, the existing module from the BTR-82A is sufficient. He / they still can only be used together with BMPT / ShMPP and MBT.
            This is what you should think about, talk about and write about when our soldiers are dying at the fronts in tin cans that do not even hold heavy fragments.
            1. +1
              17 February 2023 10: 26
              Agree, plus. Purely hypothetically, I will add that the platform for the delivery of "soldiers of the future" can be of such a layout, but in the form of a buggy, with frames, without booking capsules, but the individual booking of fighters should be an order of magnitude higher, with an exoskeleton and other bells and whistles. And instead of a bracket with a machine gun, a laser designator for a swarm of drones.
            2. +2
              17 February 2023 11: 33
              Do you really propose to make 3/4 infantry fighting vehicles based on tanks?
              Considering how oversaturated all the armies of the world are with anti-tank weapons, I have a question, why?
              You do not consider the burden on the budget, on the military-industrial complex and on logistics at all? Do you have them free of charge and immediately leave any factory in any quantity? And when you see a budget not with 2-5% for the defense industry, but with 50% for the defense industry and bolts in all other areas, is this also the norm?
              If the type of norms during the war, then I remind the USSR in 41 refused to produce a large number of modern and effective weapons, such as SVT-40, kv tanks, ZIS-2 cannons, MIG3 fighters ... Just to increase the production of weapons that are easy to manufacture, and if we talk about peacetime, such budget expenditures are not justified, on the contrary, it will be necessary to invest in industry, the social sector, the restoration of what was destroyed, and these are colossal amounts ...
              All these tank-based infantry fighting vehicles have a place to be and really in the right place and time they can be useful. But now UAVs with anti-tank weapons appear even in relatively weak armies, artillery is becoming more and more perfect, mine weapons are being improved. In fact, the difference between a tank and an infantry fighting vehicle is now actually just that the tank is not hit by 25-57 mm guns. And everything else either does not hit either the tank or the BMP, or it hits both the tank and the BMP.
              Yes, I agree there are still different weapons, such as old grenade launchers such as RPG-18 fly or spg-9, but this is not a mass weapon, the losses from it are scanty ...
              Therefore, I don’t see the point in a large number of infantry fighting vehicles based on tanks. Yes, they can be effective against popuases, but in a major military conflict, against a full-fledged army in terms of weapons, they will only create unnecessary problems in terms of their transportation, evacuation in case of defeat, fuel supply ...
              We need medium-sized vehicles, with all-round protection against 30-40 mm guns and modular protection (screens, dz, kaz), including quick-release screens that can be easily replaced in the field, and at the same time the vehicle must float, with modular armor elements removed, but the standard position is with screens, the removal of screens is allowed only when water barriers are formed ...
              The screens themselves should be different for the tasks and features of the theater. Somewhere with remote sensing, somewhere it can be with a large number of layers, say for urban battles, in order to give the vehicles maximum survivability, even overloading the chassis for a short time.
              Optimally, this is aluminum, on top of high-hardness steel, screens are also made of high-hardness steel, from the inside there is a thick Kevlar lining that will catch fragments even in case of penetration ...
              Circular armor is very important, including vertical projection.
              Plus regular, easily mounted lattice screens, which are easily folded according to the principle of convertible roofs, to protect against being hit from above by both ammunition and drones like the same Lancet ...
              At the same time, without a modular body kit, the car may well be up to 20t, which will make it both floating and airborne (not landing). The kit is full-time by 5 tons, but in an overload of up to 30 tons (this is with additional screens and d / s for action in the city, for example).
            3. +1
              17 February 2023 11: 54
              You can also understand infantry fighting vehicles made on the basis of old tanks, that is, t-55 / t-62 and even possibly t-72, that is, this will increase production, because the chassis does not need to be manufactured, you just need to digest the hull ... But mass-produce new infantry fighting vehicles with armor like a tank, taking into account the fact that tanks are still not provided with protection against modern weapons, it makes no sense. The equipment should be specialized, especially since a lot of new infantry fighting vehicles need to be released, on the order of 10000, or even more, there should be no problems creating from scratch, in mass production, unification with other products is not as important as in small-scale production.
              Comprehensive armor is very important ... But it makes little sense to protect against tank shells. But a 40mm cannon, and NATO plans to introduce 35-40mm cannons for all armored vehicles, must be provided for.
              Plus, you need to come up with something with the removal of gases ...
              1. +1
                17 February 2023 22: 33
                Quote: Georgy Sviridov_2
                You can also understand infantry fighting vehicles made on the basis of old tanks, that is, t-55 / t-62 and even possibly t-72, that is, this will increase production, because the chassis does not need to be manufactured, you just need to digest the hull ...

                Looks like you read my post below.
                I have repeatedly written that it is necessary to take the practical experience in this area of ​​​​Kharkov engineers of the 90s as the basis for the TBTR, who exactly digested the T-55 and T-64 hulls by turning the hull "back to front", making the MTO in front and reinforcing it with an armored wedge from forehead. In this case, an ideal TBTR is obtained with a capacious troop compartment and tank-level protection. Side screens with dynamic protection will provide protection against projectiles 30, 35, 40 and even 57 mm. , as well as from a fair amount of ATGMs and grenade launchers, because they will provide spaced armor under dynamic protection.
                About the question price.
                At the storage bases, we have about 2000 - 2500 T-64s and a lock of 1500 - 2000 T-55s, which can be safely used as a base for TBTR. Engines for them can be taken from extensive warehouses of tank engines of previous modifications of the T-72. So the cost of such an alteration will in no way be higher than the production of a new light-class infantry fighting vehicle. And this work can be carried out at repair plants, having equipped them with the necessary equipment, without diverting the main industries, which now need to bake tanks (T-90M) and BMPTs like pies.
                Quote: Georgy Sviridov_2
                In fact, the difference between a tank and an infantry fighting vehicle is now actually just that the tank is not hit by 25-57 mm guns.

                I must disappoint you - when shooting at the side in the area of ​​\u30b\u3bthe logistics and Soviet and NATO tanks, even 30 mm are affected. cannon, if these places are not covered by sufficiently reliable side screens. While the BMP-XNUMXM "Dragoon" and "Manul", when using the side screens from the "Kurganets" (and they are provided), quite kept XNUMX mm for themselves. projectile both on the forehead and on the side. As well as heavy fragments.
                Look at the TBTR-90 and TBTR-55 ​​proposed by the Kharkiv residents of the 64s. This is exactly what cars in this class should be. And there should be a LOT of them. I think no less than 1500 - 2000 pieces. It is with them that the motorized infantry units of tank and motorized rifle divisions should be armed. And floating armored vehicles should occupy (in the future, of course) no more than 25 - 30% of the total fleet of infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers - for arming reconnaissance and avant-garde units (of course, this is not about the National Guard). In general, the RF Armed Forces should become heavier in their armored vehicles, the composition of which for assault formations should consist of MBT, BMPT / ShMPP (as an infantry support combat vehicle), TBTR. And in no case should one neglect the issues of security - this is the survival of l / s in battle and the solution of complex offensive and assault tasks. And the coming decade (at least) definitely does not bring us easy tasks.
                Quote: Georgy Sviridov_2
                Plus, you need to come up with something with the removal of gases ...

                With the front placement of the MTO, the engine and transmission are behind a vertical armored bulkhead and no gases can penetrate into the habitable compartments, by definition. In addition, this problem was successfully solved even on the BMP-1 \ 2.
            4. 0
              20 February 2023 10: 12
              Your fabrications about floating infantry fighting vehicles are unsubstantiated. If you take the only stupid tactics head-on on the only road, then your version would make sense. But this tactic is at the DNA level. Tactics are different. The buoyancy of the BMP is needed for operational coverage, the same BMP-3 was also created for non-contact combat. In addition, you did not see, apparently, large rivers, and did not see how difficult it is to transport equipment along them if the bridge is destroyed. I propose to go to the Yenisei, Angara and see live. The Dnieper and Volga are also suitable. The TBMPs you offer are effective in the same amount as heavy tanks, i.e. at the level of 10% of the total number, which does not matter if you also think about the economy of war.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. +7
        17 February 2023 10: 10
        The project just sucks. Normal people put the engine from the front in order to protect the soldiers, but this not a comrade at all decided to cover the engine with people. am
      5. +3
        17 February 2023 17: 20
        It is them that the author is going to sacrifice chtol, I wonder? In general, he is not devoid of a sense of humor. Black.
    2. +5
      17 February 2023 11: 41
      And even after a mine explosion, all this economy will jam and the fighters will be trapped and will not be able to leave the car. And you can safely destroy them.
  2. +16
    16 February 2023 05: 37
    —- The idea of ​​a ramp and drowning, including all kinds of EO devices, is very timely, like a periscope. All these devices on the armor are like Christmas decorations in battle. Thanks to the author for a bold idea!

    —- It is more correct for the landing force to sit along the course of movement in order to protect it from dizziness and disorientation.

    …waste container…

    —- They can flood the enemy's trenches and dugouts, in a fit of a breakthrough - .... I understand the practical aspect, but I apologize, I could not resist.
  3. +6
    16 February 2023 05: 50
    …waste container…
    —- They can flood the enemy's trenches and dugouts, in a fit of a breakthrough - .... I understand the practical aspect, but I apologize, I could not resist.

    Yes, and if a shell lies next to you or you run into a mine, it splashes so that you can’t wash the inside later ... no, if you need it, it’s better to put it in your pants ... it will be safer.
    1. +7
      16 February 2023 13: 58
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      waste container...
      —- They can flood the enemy's trenches and dugouts, in a fit of a breakthrough - .... I understand the practical aspect, but I apologize, I could not resist.

      Yes, and if a shell lies next to you or you run into a mine, it splashes so that you can’t wash the inside later ... no, if you need it, it’s better to put it in your pants ... it will be safer.

      And what? what There is something in this! Are diapers made in vain? Yes
      By the way, there is a situation when it is undesirable to "go out of need" for more than one day! This applies to observers, snipers, scouts ... Back in 2014 in the Donbass, those who had to "depict a stone" for 2-3 days ate jelly candies with carroginan! They say it helps!
    2. +2
      17 February 2023 16: 48
      Take a piss, I'm sorry, and you can do it on the go. Right from the side out. Yes, and poop, if desired and the presence of acrobatics :-).
      But seriously, the Yankees aren't so wrong when they use diapers in the military...
  4. +17
    16 February 2023 06: 02
    The landing only lacks individual ejection seats ... belay
  5. +14
    16 February 2023 06: 06
    Additional booking of the sides of the BMP due to the landing? Nu-nu.
    And filling the inside with foam is not at all the case, because this space can be used to evacuate the wounded or just the right people from the battlefield, such as scouts returning from the “other side” or the swaddled “tongue”.
    1. +2
      16 February 2023 06: 08
      Quote: Nagan
      Additional booking of the sides of the BMP due to the landing?

      Well, Duc in Israel seems to have a heavy infantry fighting vehicle or armored personnel carrier ... Azarite, it seems ...
      based on the tank hull. hi
      1. +3
        16 February 2023 06: 53
        "Ahzarit", based on captured Arab T-54 and T-55.
        1. +10
          16 February 2023 16: 47
          BTR "Ahzarit"
          Combat weight, t 44
          Crew, people. 3
          Landing, people nineteen
          Number of issued, pcs. 400-500
          Body length, mm 6450
          Case width mm 3640
          Height, mm 2000
          Armor type steel homogeneous + reactive
          Forehead, mm / city. sixteen
          weaponry
          Machine guns 4 × 7,62-mm
          Mobility
          Engine type diesel
          Engine power, l. with. Xnumx
          Breaking wall, m 0,8
          Overcoming ditch, m 2,85





          Experts rightly consider the Israeli tracked armored personnel carrier "Ahzarit" one of the most protected in its class. Not a single armored personnel carrier of other countries can boast of such a level of armor protection. It is worth noting that, according to various estimates, from 14 to 17 tons of APC weight falls solely on additional booking, including using composite armor. The Israeli military claims that the APC is able to survive not only the hit of RPGs, various cumulative ammunition, but also armor-piercing shells. According to them, “Ahzarit” can withstand several hits of 125-mm armor-piercing feathered sub-caliber shells when hit in the frontal projection. No APC in the world can boast of such a level of protection.
          experts attribute to the shortcomings of the armored personnel carrier a large combat weight - 44 tons, but this is an objective necessity, due to the terms of reference and the requirements of the military. Also, sometimes the shortcomings include the part of the roof that is raised during landing, which can tell the enemy that the landing force is preparing or is already leaving the combat vehicle.
          1. +4
            16 February 2023 17: 09
            The Israelis also designed the Leopard infantry fighting vehicle based on the latest modification of the Merkava or Chariot tank. Nine fighters and a crew of three are well protected by thick armor. Such an infantry fighting vehicle weighs sixty tons. (!)
            However, as the Israeli Military Herald writes:
            "שריון כבד יהפוך לא רלוונטי. יהיו כמה קליעים מעוצבים חזקים יותר שיכולים להבהב כל שריון, והצטברות השריון הזה פשוט תהיה חסרת טעם. והאפשרות להציל את המכונית בשדה הקרב תהיה בדיוק הניידות שלה, כך שבעתיד יהיה צורך לנטוש את הנגמ "שים הכבדים ולעבור לקלים יותר ".

            Yandex translation:
            “Heavy armor will become irrelevant. Some more powerful HEAT shells will appear that can pierce any armor, and building up this armor will simply be pointless. , give up and switch to easier ones"
            1. +3
              16 February 2023 17: 23
              My compliments, Dmitry!
              To be honest, I have no understanding of the Akhzarites participating in hostilities similar to those in which their foundations were acquired. And now there is no one to ask, from the entire Israeli diaspora, a couple of people remained on the forum ...
              1. +4
                16 February 2023 17: 44
                Anton, my compliments hi
                I do not belong to the Israeli diaspora - I am Russian from Stavropol.
                The website of the Military Technical Society writes:
                "Ahzarit" is in service with the Israeli army and is used in urban areas in which outdated M113 armored personnel carriers are not as effective due to anti-tank grenade launchers used by militants. Used by the Golani and Givati ​​infantry brigades. Used in Operation Dawn

                a photo. 2022 Operation Dawn
                1. +1
                  16 February 2023 17: 52
                  I do not belong to the Israeli diaspora - I am Russian from Stavropol.
                  I know.)))
                  As for the combat use of "Ahzarit", I assumed that they were used mainly against Palestinian rogues and did not participate in serious clashes.
                  1. 0
                    18 February 2023 20: 57
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    As for the combat use of "Ahzarit", I assumed that they were used mainly against Palestinian rogues and did not participate in serious clashes.

                    And what's the difference who puts an ATGM in this BMP, a Palestinian rogue, or a VSUshnik? Then, according to your logic, the assault on Grozny is "not a serious clash."
          2. +3
            17 February 2023 01: 17
            Quote: Richard
            BTR "Ahzarit"

            A good solution for TBTR from captured MBTs, but I prefer the lineup proposed in the 90s by the designers of the Kharkov Tractor, based on converted and deployed 180 gr. T-55 and T-64. With front placement of MTO and a spacious elongated troop compartment with a comfortable ramp. An elongated troop compartment with a sloping overhang counterbalances and balances the heavy "nose" with MTO and heavy frontal armor. As a result, the TBTR does not goat and does not throw as much backwards as the BMP-1 \ 2. And then the Kharkiv citizens had an airborne squad for as many as 12 people ... if not for 14 people. at TBTR-64.
            And the weight of the Kharkov TBTR turned out to be less than that of their Israeli counterparts - about 34 - 35 tons.
            So, on the basis of the numerous T-55 and T-64 storage bases (which are unlikely to be returned to service), we would be able to establish the production of TBTR in the image and likeness of the Kharkov TBTR-55 \ 64. Moreover, all work on the conversion of MBT can be carried out by repair plants (with some of their retrofitting), without diverting the main production to this.
            The decision itself asks for implementation, but ... even a hint of the right solutions is not visible.
            WHY?
      2. +10
        16 February 2023 07: 05
        I guess I didn't put it that way. Just when looking at the picture, it seemed that the capsules and bodies of the paratroopers posed as hinged armor.
        1. +14
          16 February 2023 08: 33
          So it is - and the armor is composite. It will be great to disperse cumulatives with bodies.
    2. +2
      17 February 2023 13: 01
      Quote: Nagan
      Additional booking of the sides of the BMP due to the landing? Nu-nu.

      Not just Nu-nu - but bullshit laughing laughing laughing
      It’s better for the caliber to write on historical topics ...
  6. +13
    16 February 2023 06: 36
    The company "Shpacovsci Arm's Ltd" expands the range of products!
    Riflemen and tanks were already on the agenda, today infantry fighting vehicles and cannon artillery are on the agenda, I'm afraid to imagine what will happen next, because the Death Star has already been patented by Lucas.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. +4
      16 February 2023 18: 56
      Vyacheslav Olegovich hi
      Is your concept inspired by this?
  7. +12
    16 February 2023 06: 47
    The fighters press the buttons, the manipulators lower the landing to the ground, while not forgetting how the fighter needs to relieve himself in the BMP (?) ... Author, are you serious?
    1. -1
      16 February 2023 06: 53
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Author, are you serious?

      Quite. I read a lot on the topic of improving the BMP ...
      1. +3
        16 February 2023 06: 59
        On long marches, if they are impatient, they simply relieve themselves - from the armor and, if necessary, comrades will insure. Regarding the manipulators and buttons - what if the manipulator is damaged or the hydraulics fail?
        1. -1
          16 February 2023 07: 51
          Quote: rotmistr60
          and if the manipulator is damaged or the hydraulics fail?

          Open the door and jump. It's not very high...
      2. +12
        16 February 2023 16: 58
        Quote: kalibr
        I read a lot on the topic of improving the BMP ...
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, what is an infantry fighting vehicle? So, you noted that the times, they say, have changed, the war is not nuclear ... Is there complete confidence that there will be no war with the use of nuclear weapons? There is no such certainty. This time. What is a classic infantry fighting vehicle, it is primarily a highly maneuverable universal vehicle, this is its whole point.

        If we are talking about such a phenomenon as a "heavy infantry fighting vehicle", then it should immediately be noted that its "heaviness" loses its universality, that is, its whole essence. In terms of specialization, this BMP will lose to a heavy armored personnel carrier due to the added weapons, and in terms of weapons it will be inferior to the same BMPT, which, in addition, does not have to wait for the infantry to dismount for fire support.

        You can't add anything without sacrificing anything. And, it is not necessary to produce monsters, such as the T-15, but to reduce the number of troops per combat vehicle, to 4-6 people. This will make it possible to make a highly protected transport for infantry assault groups working with tanks, with a comfortable landing. If we are talking about a tank base, about working with tanks, then this would be a "tandem" solution, where a heavy armored personnel carrier would take the transport function, and a specialized BMPT would take the fire function.

        For example, BMO-T, on the basis of which you can make a heavy armored personnel carrier (transport function).

        It is possible even with an uninhabited module and an even more reduced landing force or no landing force at all (only a combat module of a different type), that is, in fact, a variant of the BMPT (fire specialized function).


        Otherwise, no matter how you protect a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, it will be a mastodon-"mass grave", where one hit will destroy both the crew and 9-10 paratroopers. In any case, there should not be transports "pregnant" with infantry next to the tanks.
        Let the universal BMP be like the BMP-3 / BMD-4M.
      3. 0
        17 February 2023 13: 05
        So reading is not enough, you need to do this, at least make a computer model, conduct a computer simulation.
  8. +11
    16 February 2023 06: 55
    on such a machine they will simply beat with a thermal bar = 10 corpses. cumulative mines will pierce the bottom of any shape and exit through the roof. Yes, and the door can lead when undermined - a person will burn. the landing force is not protected from ricocheting fragments and bullets, and it is dangerous to lean out to shoot
    1. +16
      16 February 2023 07: 10
      It seems that the author proposes to send fighters immediately in ready-made coffins into battle.
      1. -9
        16 February 2023 07: 53
        Quote from: Derbes19
        Such a feeling

        And now it feels like they are traveling in one big coffin. Doesn't it bother you?
    2. +5
      16 February 2023 07: 41
      Quote: Tlauicol
      doors can lead


      Instead of doors, it may be necessary to put two screens of armored plates covering the opening of an open and fixed door from bullets and shrapnel and shock waves flowing in - accordingly, people will no longer be afraid to ride inside.
      1. +5
        16 February 2023 08: 30
        The dimensions of the mass are growing, mobility is deteriorating
    3. -1
      16 February 2023 07: 52
      Quote: Tlauicol
      dangerously

      And with a conventional infantry fighting vehicle, the same thing ...
      1. +5
        16 February 2023 08: 05
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Tlauicol
        dangerously

        And with a conventional infantry fighting vehicle, the same thing ...

        With a conventional infantry fighting vehicle, it is not necessary to stick out with a machine gun in order to shoot.
        1. +4
          17 February 2023 00: 29
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Quote: kalibr
          Quote: Tlauicol
          dangerously

          And with a conventional infantry fighting vehicle, the same thing ...

          With a conventional infantry fighting vehicle, it is not necessary to stick out with a machine gun in order to shoot.

          WHAT IS THE RESULT OF SUCH SHOOTING, AND ALSO ON THE GO?
    4. +4
      16 February 2023 08: 02
      Quote: Tlauicol
      cumulative mines will pierce the bottom of any shape and exit through the roof. Yes, and the door can lead when undermined - a person will burn. the landing force is not protected from ricocheting fragments and bullets, and it is dangerous to lean out to shoot

      Ivan! And in a perfect BMP, EVERYTHING is dangerous!
      1. +8
        16 February 2023 08: 16
        At least the bullets do not fly into the head, and she carries loads. And this? 400 rounds per brother..
        Hydraulic descents are superfluous, why complicate? Open the ladder door and get out. Dirty, of course, but it will open on any surface, And the door leaf will not rest against the mud, a stone, a root, a rut, etc.
  9. +16
    16 February 2023 07: 18
    If something serious arrives on such an echo, then the "individual capsules" will have one more application. as coffins. It is possible directly together with "waste containers".

    How to take out the wounded on such a behe? Apparently, as well as not wounded. In a capsule. Nothing, just sit and wait...

    Drop button for each fighter. The fighter sneezed, accidentally pressed it - and the entire squad was parachuted. With special cynicism - if this happens in the deep rear or in peacetime, when a march is made along the highway. Half of the squad - at full speed into the ditch, and the other half - into the oncoming lane.
    1. -2
      16 February 2023 07: 55
      Quote: Pushkowed
      The fighter sneezed, accidentally pressed

      Jan, it's crazy to think that a button can have foolproofing. Doesn't it scare you that a soldier can sneeze even with a finger on the trigger of a machine gun?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  10. +5
    16 February 2023 07: 41
    If everything is foamed inside, then what to carry the BC on?
    1. -7
      16 February 2023 07: 57
      Quote: Tlauicol
      If everything is foamed inside, then what to carry the BC on?

      Inside the platform is only foamed. Where there is a tower there is a place for a BC ... But it was necessary to draw a very detailed drawing, which is difficult and expensive. And most importantly, for whom?
      1. +5
        16 February 2023 08: 02
        Vyacheslav, BC for infantry. tons. Loads are different. Where is it all?
      2. +11
        16 February 2023 08: 57
        It looks like foam is more important for the author than a soldier, because it is protected by full-fledged armor.
      3. Alf
        +11
        16 February 2023 11: 26
        Quote: kalibr
        But it was necessary to draw a very detailed drawing, which is difficult and expensive.

        And yes, you still need to know...
        Quote: kalibr
        And most importantly, for whom?

        The caliber in his repertoire is all around ... stupid, I'm the only smart one. Then the question is, what does a smart person do in such an environment or in an environment of smart people will he no longer seem like that?
        1. +6
          16 February 2023 12: 22
          A smart person in such an environment pretends to be stupid and mows money on clickbaits.
          1. -5
            16 February 2023 17: 14
            Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
            A smart person in such an environment pretends to be stupid and mows money on clickbaits.

            Did you come up with this yourself, Ivan, or did you read it somewhere?
            1. +7
              16 February 2023 21: 33
              I saw it. After all, to get more comments, what should I do? Write some nonsense in the article, because it’s boring to comment on a smart article - everything is right there. And here - just a charm for the author - a bunch of people are trying to prove where the nonsense is, another bunch of people argue with them - transitions to personalities, blood, meat, etc. Clickbait is growing - money is dripping.
          2. +3
            17 February 2023 19: 18
            A smart person in such an environment pretends to be stupid and mows money on clickbaits.
            In this non-core issue for him, the author does not need to pretend.
        2. -3
          16 February 2023 17: 14
          Quote: Alf
          -everyone around ... stupid,

          Not all, but as a rule, they don’t write nonsense and don’t read through the line.
        3. +3
          17 February 2023 19: 16
          The caliber in his repertoire is all around ... stupid, I'm the only smart one. Then the question is, what does a smart person do in such an environment or in an environment of smart people will he no longer seem like that?
          The author lives by such a literary work, earning on the number of comments, he himself repeatedly boasted. The more crazy the note, the more comments, the higher the fee. A note at the level of different schemes of snow and swamp vehicles for a circle of pioneers.
          1. -1
            18 February 2023 07: 05
            Quote: Aviator_
            The author lives by such a literary work,

            But, Sergey, what pearls in the comments, Well, for example:Shoot feces towards the enemy. The enemy will certainly be afraid and flee. I think with great fondness of their authors.
  11. +14
    16 February 2023 08: 28
    Shoot feces towards the enemy. The enemy will certainly be afraid and flee.
  12. +14
    16 February 2023 08: 39
    If I were instructed to invent something, I would study the best modern foreign analogues, choose the optimal one and copy it. How was the song? "Dreamers, dreamers!
    After all, danger is, in general, a trifle ... "Or I mixed it up ...
    P.s. Even the USSR did not hesitate to "copy" ...
    1. +8
      16 February 2023 08: 53
      Dreamers, dreamers!
      It was: "Smile, stuntmen!" (WITH)
      1. +7
        16 February 2023 09: 37
        It was: "Smile, stuntmen!" (WITH)

        thanks, now the radio plays mostly foreign music, the words of Soviet songs are forgotten, but the melodies remain ...
        1. +6
          16 February 2023 09: 44
          Please, but about dreamers ...
          "Dreamer! You called me." Yaroslav Evdokimov
          1. +13
            16 February 2023 11: 08
            Most of all, our fantasies are like us. Each dream is drawn according to his nature.
            Victor Marie Hugo
            1. +5
              16 February 2023 20: 11
              Most of all, our fantasies are like us. Each dream is drawn according to his nature.

              Bah, who do I see! belay good
              Oh Great Leader, hello! I am glad! drinks
    2. +10
      16 February 2023 10: 06
      you accidentally described the process of creating "Kalash" ...
  13. +13
    16 February 2023 08: 45
    It is sad that the author, in the presence of a very well developed fantasy, does not try to develop technological knowledge. The simplest calculation shows that either the armor on these "armored capsules" will be enough only for an individual coffin, because one large-caliber bullet will pierce the entire row at once, or the equipment will not be able to budge due to excess weight. The entire history of armored vehicles demonstrates the rejection of multi-tower. And then there is the system of individual fecalization - is the infantry going to ride for days in battle?
  14. +8
    16 February 2023 08: 54
    An interesting concept of the BMP, but it seems to me it's time to move away from such a unit as a squad and move on to groups of 3-4 people. Accordingly, it is possible to reduce the size of the combat vehicle by a factor of two.
  15. +9
    16 February 2023 09: 40
    Some kind of fig. If a "sealed" armored car is not relevant, then you need to make an open type, with good mine protection. But a roof, such as a "canopy", is mandatory, no one will cancel the UAV.
  16. +9
    16 February 2023 10: 44
    today we see the result of the entire previous period of development of the BMP - the BMP-3 and the T-15 and Kurganets vehicles. Both are heavily protected...

    Is the BMP-3 heavily protected? what
    1. +1
      17 February 2023 10: 26
      Compared to what it was, yes. But it seems that in modern realities, all-round protection should not be lower than from 30-35 mm guns. If not point-blank, then at least from 300 meters.
  17. +11
    16 February 2023 10: 53

    The dream of the reason produces monsters


    Otherwise, these fantasies cannot be imagined. The author, with a tenacity worthy of a better application, continues to deny the need for even the simplest technical knowledge to create technical products.
    To illustrate, we will carry out a small series of simple calculations. In the BMP-2, one soldier has 0,52 cubic meters of internal volume. For six (troop compartment) we get three cubic meters. If we imagine such a compartment for ease of calculation in the form of a parallelepiped three meters long and one meter high, made of a steel sheet 20 mm thick, then its weight will be 2,5 tons.
    Now we divide this large troop compartment into six "individual" ones, measuring one meter by one and half a meter. With the same wall thickness, the weight of such an "individual" troop compartment will be 0,72 tons. And six - 4,32 tons. That is, we have an increase in weight almost twice.
    You can, of course, make the reservation differentiated and the weight increase will be less, but this does not change the essence. But we still haven't calculated the weight of the hydraulic drive and the "manipulator", as well as the heating and air conditioning systems and the "individual pots". And if you perform these "individual capsules" with more or less normal protection, then the weight will increase many times over. The output is a monster.
    Speaking of pots. I suggest the author to dress in winter clothes, then sit on the toilet and, without getting up from it, relieve himself, preferably a large one. At the same time, imagine that the toilet is in an infantry fighting vehicle moving along a bumpy road. Share the results later. It's about ergonomics.
    1. Alf
      +15
      16 February 2023 11: 04
      Quote: Ruyter-57
      The author, with a tenacity worthy of a better application, continues to deny the need for even the simplest technical knowledge to create technical products.

      The author is a former instructor in ideological work, colloquially an agitator, he is not supposed to think, the main thing in his profession is a flight of fancy, and the more chaotic, the better.
      1. +7
        16 February 2023 21: 44
        Well, this is a general trend now - it’s not specialists who command everywhere, but “effective managers” with near-zero special knowledge, so it’s lucky that the author writes articles - and imagine that with this project, the author would start to manage production ....
      2. +2
        17 February 2023 19: 22
        The author is a former instructor in ideological work,
        There are no former professional Marxist-Leninists.
    2. +13
      16 February 2023 14: 31
      hi
      Since the site needs "life-giving clickbait", which Vyacheslav Olegovich himself hinted at more than once (both positive and negative - everything will do), I propose to develop the theme of "Super-BMP".
      I suggest the author to dress in winter clothes, then sit on the toilet and, without getting up from it, relieve himself, preferably a large one. At the same time, imagine that the toilet is in an infantry fighting vehicle moving along a bumpy road. Share the results later. It's about ergonomics.


      IMHO, unfortunately, the proposed BMP is not radical enough.
      I propose to consider an option that Tom Cruise has successfully used more than once or twice. We do not have to be shy to copy ready-made Western samples, "there is no time for buildup!"


      https://youtu.be/cNw7HYZ_7_w?t=96


      https://youtu.be/OOpBy_9vHdI?t=75


      https://youtu.be/hR5SnO6mHpk

      From the documentary above, it is clear that:
      1. BMP must fly.
      2. The problem of coping with needs, both large and small, is a very important problem and it is solved by opening the entire floor of the BMP in flight. Here, whoever doesn’t prosr..sya and doesn’t pross.tsya, that’s exactly from a height probl..tsya.
      3. All fighters must be equipped with exoskeletons, this is, I hope, self-evident.
      4. The problem of removing pants is solved, as can be seen from the attached doc. movie, it's very simple - you can not wear pants. And the exoskeleton will provide a comfortable temperature with the built-in climate control.

      Phew, I'm a little tired of intellectual work, I'll go sit down, or something ...
      1. Alf
        +6
        16 February 2023 17: 46
        Quote: Wildcat
        I'll go sit down, or something ...

        In pants or just in an exoskeleton? laughing
        1. +5
          16 February 2023 20: 14
          lol
          In pants or just in an exoskeleton?
          in pants, in pants, and with a 24 kg kettlebell...
          1. Alf
            +4
            16 February 2023 20: 21
            Quote: Wildcat
            lol
            In pants or just in an exoskeleton?
            in pants, in pants, and with a 24 kg kettlebell...

            With a kettlebell in your pants? laughing laughing
            1. +4
              16 February 2023 20: 30

              with two steel weights, impenetrable... soldier
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Alf
                +2
                16 February 2023 20: 57
                Quote: Wildcat
                with two steel weights, impenetrable...

                By the way, and you, by any chance, are pumping up not to steal an iron as a joke? laughing
                1. +4
                  16 February 2023 21: 17
                  thanks for the idea laughing but the iron is already there!
                  It would be necessary to get hold of a weight of 36 kg somewhere if possible ... feel
                  1. Alf
                    0
                    16 February 2023 21: 19
                    Quote: Wildcat
                    thanks for the idea laughing but the iron is already there!
                    It would be necessary to get hold of a weight of 36 kg somewhere if possible ... feel

                    In general, have you heard this joke about the iron on the penis? I can tell. good
                    Have flea markets been canceled in your city? Or Avito closed?
                    1. +3
                      16 February 2023 21: 28
                      In general, have you heard this joke about the iron on the penis? I can tell.
                      thanks, no need, I already got the iron in a completely unromantic way! winked
                      Have flea markets been canceled in your city? Or Avito closed?
                      It is always difficult to explain to the family why you need to drag into the house "one more thing like the one that already exists."
                      1. Alf
                        +3
                        16 February 2023 21: 48
                        Quote: Wildcat
                        It is always difficult to explain to the family why you need to drag into the house "one more thing like the one that already exists."

                        Yes, it is very difficult for a woman to explain. But you can translate the arrows - you have a bunch of pans, why do you need to buy another one?
                      2. +2
                        17 February 2023 19: 25
                        But you can translate the arrows - you have a bunch of pans, why do you need to buy another one?
                        For a woman, a frying pan is a weapon of persuasion, like a rolling pin.
                      3. Alf
                        +4
                        17 February 2023 19: 38
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        For a woman, a frying pan is a weapon of persuasion, like a rolling pin.

                        Regular personal weapon. laughing
            2. +2
              17 February 2023 19: 48
              a bit tired of intellectual work

              in pants, and with a 24 kg kettlebell.

              As a break from intellectual work, I offer an anecdote: smile
              Two women are talking:
              - mine is 18 cm
              - Lucky! but to mine like a baby
              -So Littel?
              - Not really. Height 51 cm and weight 3,5 kg
              1. Alf
                +2
                17 February 2023 19: 53
                Quote: Richard
                a bit tired of intellectual work

                in pants, and with a 24 kg kettlebell.

                As a break from intellectual work, I offer an anecdote: smile
                Two women are talking:
                - mine is 18 cm
                - Lucky! but to mine like a baby
                -So Littel?
                - Not really. Height 51 cm and weight 3,5 kg

                good
    3. +5
      16 February 2023 18: 28
      And six - 4,32 tons. That is, we have an increase in weight almost twice.
      How about titanium? And immediately inlaid with gold! Well, so that would not go twice ...
      1. +4
        16 February 2023 20: 10
        Maybe titanium. We will gain something in weight, but we will not fully compensate for the increase, and besides, we will lose in size. Well, the manufacturing technology will immediately become more complicated.
  18. +4
    16 February 2023 11: 01
    Technology of tomorrow.
    The author of the article announced the technology of tomorrow, so I think that when designing such technology, one should look into tomorrow, and not look back at yesterday. The idea, in my opinion, is interesting, but it is necessary to design this device not for people, but for robots. Then everything will look great! Without crew BMP, carrier of infantry robots in individual armored capsules. good
    1. Alf
      +8
      16 February 2023 11: 20
      Quote: Gomunkul
      The idea, in my opinion, is interesting, but it is necessary to design this device not for people, but for robots

      Already invented. The latest BMP in the background.
    2. +6
      16 February 2023 16: 34
      Quote: Gomunkul
      Then everything will look great! , the carrier of infantry robots in individual armored capsules.

      And what ? Perhaps ... like "that"!




      And perhaps there will be such "robot infantrymen"!




      1. Alf
        +4
        16 February 2023 17: 49
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        And what ? Perhaps ... like "that"!

        Ek flattens you, especially in the second part of the drawings! laughing Looking so far into the future. Do you know that consciousness-expanding drugs are banned in the Russian Federation on pain of a long stay in ecologically clean, albeit cold, regions? laughing
  19. +4
    16 February 2023 11: 10
    The idea with the external placement of troops in capsules immediately caught my eye and "empirically" I assessed it as not very good. I recalled an analogy from BB1 with these small wheeled individual coffins, according to the calculations of the creators of which are capable of solving the problem of armor protection for the advancing infantry. Yes, it will protect against light small arms and low-energy fragments. But as we understand it, as soon as projects of such a machine appear, the equipment with heavy machine guns capable of piercing such armor will grow as a means of combating such a threat. And by definition, it will be inferior even to the current thickness, because the area and height are increasing - and without weighting and increasing the overall dimensions of the structure, it can only be done with this approach.
    Also a separate point is psychological. A separate fight in crowded with others is much easier than it is in a dense steel mesh and alone. Any claustrophobic tendencies in this approach will be exacerbated and the psychological stress will be higher than in the case of mass accommodation.

    In general, it is likely that new projects will inevitably have to increase the armor of the sides and work simultaneously with the internal production. That is, this enlargement of dimensions is all the same. Here, they will probably play with the lateral geometry and in every possible way refine themselves in the first place to improve the internal ergonomics. It is much more convenient to work with a conditionally continuous side armor plate in this regard than with non-continuous cells, with a mass of inevitable weak zones of different thicknesses and properties.
    As such, I see an increase in the capacity of the BMP only in working with geometry - other approaches, giving some gains in particular, lose in general.
    The possibility of personal defense from the inside does not seem to me a reasonable option for such a product. It is better to focus on the security of the crew and the comfort of leaving the BMP. Any shooting will have blind spots, and exchanging the possibility of hitting someone from personal small arms (in difficult conditions, to put it mildly and not from all dangerous angles with frankly bad visibility) for armor that can protect against RPGs does not look profitable.
    1. +4
      16 February 2023 16: 30
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Also a separate point is psychological. A separate fight in crowded with others is much easier than it is in a dense steel mesh and alone. Any claustrophobic tendencies in this approach will be exacerbated and the psychological stress will be higher than in the case of mass accommodation.


      Alas, more extraordinary solutions can be proposed - for example, integral augmented and virtual reality helmets - in them the fighter will not even know which of his comrades is real and which is just a program and whether he is already fighting alone among electronic ghosts. Moreover, it is already clear that these technologies will definitely appear in everyday life - drones on the battlefields have already become a reality before our eyes.
  20. +1
    16 February 2023 11: 13
    The enemy fires at the BMP.
    You offer to dismount the infantry directly under the enemy's bullets (at least half).

    It is necessary to minimize the direct presence of a person in the offensive and cleansing. Robots must cope with this - crawling, flying and shooting accurately.

    The next war, if it is not on sticks, then there will definitely be a war of robots.
    1. -2
      16 February 2023 17: 20
      Quote: Boris55
      You offer to dismount the infantry directly under the enemy's bullets (at least half).

      Let that half dismount on which there is no fire!
  21. +8
    16 February 2023 11: 20
    I haven't read such nonsense in a long time.
    1. Fat
      +9
      16 February 2023 11: 51
      Quote: Roman Efremov
      I haven't read such nonsense in a long time.

      This is probably from the novel that you just rarely read ...
      Frequently review articles and comments in the news section.
      Enjoy reading nonsense many times a day lol
    2. Alf
      +9
      16 February 2023 11: 55
      Quote: Roman Efremov
      I haven't read such nonsense in a long time.

      Spring is coming...
    3. -7
      16 February 2023 17: 20
      Quote: Roman Efremov
      I haven't read such nonsense in a long time...

      It’s just that you, Roman, haven’t grown up to this ...
      1. +4
        16 February 2023 18: 01
        So there is room to grow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! laughing
  22. +4
    16 February 2023 12: 09
    Quote: Ruyter-57
    Now we divide this large troop compartment into six "individual" ones, measuring one meter by a meter and half a meter.

    And who will fit in such a troop compartment?
    1. +3
      16 February 2023 13: 18
      And who will fit in such a troop compartment?

      The author of the article. Sitting on the dry closet.
  23. +4
    16 February 2023 12: 12
    For me, there are only downsides to this idea. Starting with restrictions on booking a capsule, ending with the interaction of the landing force and the crew. Based on the realities of the SVO, a heavy infantry fighting vehicle based on a tank suggests itself. For example, with a combat module from the BTR-82A. Due to the rejection of the tank turret, it is possible to strengthen the protection of the BMP. Also, such infantry fighting vehicles can use tank trawls.
  24. +9
    16 February 2023 13: 19
    In fact, BMPs were by no means created for passing through zones of radioactive contamination. Of course, the armor and lining provided some protection against gamma-neutron radiation from radioactive contamination of the area, as did the filter and ventilation installations. But they did not provide guaranteed security. The main task of the BMP was to overcome the zone of barrage fire of enemy artillery and dismount the infantry already beyond these lines. After that, the BMP, moving BEHIND the battle lines of tanks and motorized infantry, had to support them with fire, destroy anti-tank weapons and firing points of enemy infantry, and when repelling counterattacks, fight enemy tanks with the help of ATGMs.
    Those. the tactics of actions in general terms repeated the tactics of the German "Sturmgeshyutsev" and Soviet self-propelled guns of the Great Patriotic War.
    However, modern "experts" with tenacity worthy of a better application, are trying to make a kind of tank out of the BMP so that it can act ahead of the infantry.
    All this follows from the practice of counter-guerrilla warfare, when infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers were driven into residential areas or into forest belts in order to help military police units clear them of gang militants and cover military police units with armor. Hence the losses in technology, when infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers perform functions for which they were not created.
    Because, if we take the same Israelis, then for such cases they have created special equipment, with reinforced anti-mine armor, with circular anti-cumulative screens and the same screens above the roof of the car. Those. equipment specially adapted to the conditions when not enemy armored vehicles and long-range anti-tank weapons are the main threat, but anti-tank grenade launchers and trivial bottles with a combustible mixture.
    Therefore, it is impossible to make an infantry fighting vehicle / armored personnel carrier that would meet both the conditions of combined arms combat and the requirements of counterguerrilla warfare. There should be a technique for each specificity.
    1. +4
      16 February 2023 13: 45
      The main task of the BMP was to overcome the zone of barrage fire of enemy artillery and dismount the infantry already beyond these lines.

      Well, finally, the correct purpose of the BMP. Now, in the NVO, they step on a rake ten times, constantly concentrating troops to attack in the range of artillery fire.
      1. +5
        16 February 2023 13: 57
        Well, finally, the correct purpose of the BMP. Now, in the NVO, they step on a rake ten times, constantly concentrating troops to attack in the range of artillery fire.

        Since the 60s, the situation with awareness in the theater of operations has somewhat changed. It is impossible to attack without concentrating troops. In order to avoid losses from artillery fire at the stage of concentration, it is necessary to be able to plug this very artillery. Our "rake" is the lack of funds to do this.
  25. +11
    16 February 2023 13: 20
    God, what have I just read. The most harmless of all
    Well, today we see the result of the entire previous period of development of the BMP - BMP-3 and T-15 and Kurganets vehicles. .... But, as before, the paratroopers are located inside these vehicles, parachute through the aft door and ... now they cannot shoot at the enemy through the side embrasures.

    The BMP-3 has two loopholes in the sides and one in the aft door leaf. Through which nothing prevents firing, although it is inconvenient to do so through the stern.
    To comment on all the absurdities of the "project" written below, one simply drops one's hands, so much will have to be written. Vyacheslav Olegovich, after the idea of ​​​​a machine gun with "disk gear" bullets and the analysis of this idea on the forum, it was possible to devote some time to self-criticism, and not engage in graphomania.
    1. -4
      16 February 2023 17: 24
      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
      could take some time for self-criticism

      For what? By the way, it is quite possible to take a patent for bullets. The idea is patentable. But how efficient it is is not decided by people on this forum. I also need a research institute ...
      1. +3
        16 February 2023 17: 46
        What for?

        Helps to adequately assess their abilities.
        By the way, it is quite possible to take a patent for bullets. The idea is patentable

        It will not pass at once by two criteria. But you try.
      2. +3
        16 February 2023 20: 06
        But how efficient it is is not decided by people on this forum. I also need a research institute ...

        In order to decide that it is inoperable, research institutes are not needed. Sufficiently competent mechanical engineer. To become efficient, at least in theory, the bullet must not be pushed, but rotated. Just due to complete technical ignorance (do not be offended - this is just an assessment of the situation), you do not understand this.
        As for the patent, you can patent any nonsense, though you have to spend a lot of money. Thousand to two hundred can meet.
        1. +1
          16 February 2023 20: 55
          Quote: Ruyter-57
          will have to spend a lot. Thousand in two hundred maybe meet


          Somewhere around 3 thousand for registering an application. 1250 r - examination on the merits *if there is one author) and 12 500 r (10 times) if more.
          and 5 thousand plus. two payments for patent registration. - for the grant of a patent.
          Well, on paper, ink, translation by mail.
          That's all.
        2. -1
          18 February 2023 07: 13
          Quote: Ruyter-57
          but to rotate.

          And it just rotates as it moves. You think badly, Viktor Nikolaevich, about this from the very beginning. I have good consultants who do this professionally. The university can do this for free.
      3. +2
        16 February 2023 21: 01
        Quote: kalibr
        What for?

        Exactly. For what?
        Introduce the fourth infantry fighting vehicle (BTR) into the platoon, and the fourth compartment - control and reinforcement. reduce the platoon to 28 people.
        And then 7 people per car. (And there can be dancing.
        Reducing the dismounted. compensates for the firepower of the additional IFV. on the offensive. And in defense it is even easier .. Only. something needs to be invented (dump) for self-digging.
    2. +2
      16 February 2023 23: 43
      Let's start with the fact that the loopholes in the sides did not justify themselves. It is impossible in principle to conduct aimed fire from them, especially on the go. Moreover, if you have already got involved in a battle and cannot get out of it, then it is advisable to leave the car for everyone except the crew until something from the RPG-7, for example, flew over it. And there it is already overboard, focusing on the terrain to help its infantry fighting vehicle with concentrated fire on the enemy, until it was knocked out. After you find cover, you will have to be especially careful that such a beautiful person with an RPG-7 or something more abruptly does not appear. Because after the BMP dies, you, having fallen into an ambush, will not live long.
      1. +1
        17 February 2023 08: 51
        Let's start with the fact that the loopholes in the sides did not justify themselves.

        Completely useless. But this does not cancel the fact that a person writes about their absence on the car where they are present (even on the BMP-3M with a DZ attachment they will be blocked on the sides)
  26. +5
    16 February 2023 13: 29
    It must be borne in mind that the tactics of the NWO are an unimaginable vinaigrette.
    Soviet regulations assumed that tanks and motorized infantry on infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers would attack after artillery and aviation preparation behind a fire shaft, with a density of 110-120 barrels with a caliber of 120 mm or more. The realities of the SVO are 3-4 guns per km, as a result of which the entire fight against enemy and fire weapons and fortifications has to be solved with the armament of the tank and infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers. Accordingly, we have a combined-arms battle, but we are trying to act according to the patterns of combating the militants of gangs. Because for 20 years the army was trained only for this, and the generals forgot how to act in the conditions of a classic combined-arms battle, and the lieutenant did not even know the word at all.
  27. +5
    16 February 2023 15: 01
    and he will not need any screens (which are now offered by designers in order to fence off a place for a toilet bowl in an infantry fighting vehicle)!

    It is immediately clear that the author has never been inside the BMP.
    Firstly, of the modern BMPs, only the Russian BMP-3 and the British Warrior are equipped with a sanitary device. Secondly, the internal volumes are so limited that there are no places for a toilet bowl. The "toilet" is one of the landing seats. Without any "shields". And the need has to be done "in plain sight" for everyone.



    This is the "bathroom" of the BMP-3.



    This is the BMP "Warrior".

    As you can see, the British "bathroom" is more comfortable. However, these toilets are used only in exceptional cases and with open hatches, since the “ambre” inside the BMP hovers correspondingly.
    1. +3
      16 February 2023 17: 31
      The Merkava-4 tank and the Namer armored personnel carrier / infantry fighting vehicle and the new Eitan wheeled armored personnel carrier are also equipped with a bathroom.
      1. +4
        16 February 2023 17: 58
        I didn’t mention tanks deliberately, they are not considered in the article, just like armored personnel carriers. Tank "Challenger" -2 is also equipped with a bathroom. And an electric kettle.
    2. Alf
      +8
      16 February 2023 17: 55
      Quote: Ruyter-57
      It is immediately clear that the author has never been inside the BMP

      But he doesn’t need it, he writes BOOKS ... But he has some kind of unhealthy interest in the arrangement of toilets. Last year, he moved a couple of articles here. how these necessary devices developed, with drawings and models. It’s a pity that I didn’t show with comments on the video how this “process” should take place ...
      1. +8
        16 February 2023 18: 27
        But he has some kind of unhealthy interest in the arrangement of toilets.

        Here you blame the author, as for me. As long as he keeps within the theme of "history" - everything is fine. And if the article was about how engineers tried to solve the issue of sanitary devices in relation to military equipment, it would be really interesting, especially since "you can't throw out a word from a song," whatever it was.
        But when the author begins to "project" in the field of this very technique, then there is complete darkness.
      2. +5
        16 February 2023 19: 15
        But he has some kind of unhealthy interest in the arrangement of toilets. Last year, he moved a couple of articles here. how these necessary devices developed, with drawings and models.

        Why unhealthy? I write absolutely without irony. The "toilet" theme is relevant in everyday life, and even more so in war.
        In principle, if this armored personnel carrier is lightened, the armor is removed from these armored capsules, made warm and dry closets are left inside, and containers with heated water and portable washbasins are installed in place of the foam inside the hull, then you get a mine-protected off-road mobile sanitary and hygienic point with 10- local warm toilet
        1. Alf
          +4
          16 February 2023 19: 22
          Quote: Richard
          In principle, if this armored personnel carrier is lightened, the armor is removed from these armored capsules, made warm and dry closets are left inside, and containers with heated water and portable washbasins are installed in place of the foam inside the hull, then you get a mine-protected off-road mobile sanitary and hygienic point with 10- local warm toilet

          And how to fight on it? Or do you propose biological contamination ... contamination of enemy territory?
          1. +5
            16 February 2023 19: 52
            I wrote not about a combat vehicle, but an off-road mobile sanitary and hygienic point, which can be included in, for example, the same bath and laundry detachments, front-line places for training hp, refugee camps, etc.
            Do not think, Vasily, that I am defending the Shpakovsky BMP project - these are just my thoughts on the capsule scheme he proposed Yes
            1. Alf
              +3
              16 February 2023 19: 59
              Quote: Richard
              I wrote not about a combat vehicle, but an off-road mobile sanitary and hygienic point, which can be included in, for example, the same bath and laundry detachments, front-line places for training hp, refugee camps, etc.

              The thing is necessary, in the war they not only fight, but also live.
        2. +3
          16 February 2023 19: 50
          And by the way, yes! And to lift the roof of the former fighting compartment with jacks, to hang the openings, then a bathhouse will be located there, a machine that will be useful in some cases will turn out. Only she doesn’t need weapons, which means she needs a truck base. A mobile bath and toilet station will also come in handy for mass events at plus 35, and vice versa in emergency situations like earthquakes, where all those rescued usually need to be washed.
          1. Alf
            +4
            16 February 2023 20: 02
            Quote: eule
            And by the way, yes! And to lift the roof of the former fighting compartment with jacks, to hang the openings, then a bathhouse will be located there, a machine that will be useful in some cases will turn out. Only she doesn’t need weapons, which means she needs a truck base. A mobile bath and toilet station will also come in handy for mass events at plus 35, and vice versa in emergency situations like earthquakes, where all those rescued usually need to be washed.

            Why fence a garden? Take it and use it. BPO-32.
            1. +3
              16 February 2023 20: 50
              Why fence a garden? Take it and use it. BPO-32.


              1. Alf
                +2
                16 February 2023 20: 58
                Quote: Ruyter-57
                Why fence a garden? Take it and use it. BPO-32.



                Especially..
        3. +3
          16 February 2023 23: 07
          Have you tried going to the toilet? before boarding an armored car?
          1. Alf
            +3
            17 February 2023 19: 42
            Quote: Hagakure
            Have you tried going to the toilet? before boarding an armored car?

            A counter question, are you always confident in your body? Haven't you had cases that right now nothing works, even crack, and five minutes after leaving the house or boarding the tram, they honk "from below"? laughing
      3. -1
        18 February 2023 07: 16
        Quote: Alf
        Last year, he moved a couple of articles here. how these necessary devices developed, with drawings and models.

        Do not attribute other people's merits to me! Your memory is bad.
  28. -2
    16 February 2023 17: 59
    BMP is a hybrid of a Tank and an armored personnel carrier.

    You can just stop crossing the snake with the hedgehog, and use the Tanks along with the armored personnel carrier.
    Making a well-protected armored personnel carrier from a tank is easier (uprooting a tower) than developing a new infantry fighting vehicle. And there are a lot of tanks of old modifications.

    Make tanks both heavy with classic armor and light for landing and swimming.
    Light tanks can be obtained by replacing the armor with containers with filler, where you can stuff kaz or sand or even foam material for buoyancy.


    The country's budget is not rubber, in the future it will be necessary to reduce some production in order to increase funding for more effective means of defeating the enemy.
    1. +2
      16 February 2023 18: 37
      UPDATE.

      The Crimean operation showed the need for wheeled tanks, high-speed movement along the highway made it possible to protect a large territory in a short time. Tracked vehicles would not physically have had time before the arrival of the enemy. If they had relied on tracked vehicles, they would have had to fight the Ukrainians on the territory of Crimea. The armored personnel carrier was used as a wheeled tank, more armed and more protected than an armored car, but the caliber is not suitable there, and the armor is not ideal. This can be corrected in the future. Choose a caliber that will withstand the chassis, for example 57 mm, light armor. The mortar for the tank is not quite suitable, it will not be able to hit at close range. We throw out the tower - it turns out an armored personnel carrier.
    2. Alf
      +2
      16 February 2023 18: 45
      Quote: Divy Divych
      The country's budget is not rubber, in the future it will be necessary to reduce some production in order to increase funding for more effective means of defeating the enemy.

      Or maybe it's just worth taking measures against the export of funds from the country? Or raise YOUR industry to increase the tax base?
      1. +1
        16 February 2023 20: 04
        It is best to use all measures that do not harm us. For maximum effect, one measure is not enough, an integrated approach is already better, and an integrated approach with development plans for several hundred years ahead is even better.
        1. Alf
          0
          16 February 2023 20: 06
          Quote: Div Divich
          It is best to use all measures that do not harm us.

          And you won't mind... hi
          1. 0
            16 February 2023 20: 12
            I think so. And to object or not is your personal right. hi
            1. Alf
              0
              16 February 2023 20: 23
              Quote: Divy Divych
              I think so.

              So I say that there is no need to object to such an idea.
      2. +2
        16 February 2023 20: 23
        It is not worth taking measures against export, and so respected people abroad live on pennies, save on everything!
        As the Central Bank of the Russian Federation informs us, there are already restrictions: "September 29, 2022.
        The restrictions will be in effect from October 1, 2022 to March 31, 2023.
        Citizens of Russia and friendly countries will still be able to transfer up to USD 1 million to any accounts in foreign banks within a month". www.cbr.ru
        1. Alf
          +3
          16 February 2023 20: 25
          Quote: Wildcat
          It is not worth taking measures against export, and so respected people abroad live on pennies, save on everything!

          Yes, you are right ... Maybe we will open an account, we will start collecting SMS to help the hungry?
          1. +4
            16 February 2023 20: 44
            Hmm, no need to suggest ideas to the "starving" ... stop
            In principle, they still manage without SMS, work with the budget Yes and they're good Yes Yes .
            In what country, for example, do they also give money from the budget to "oil workers"? "In 2022, oil companies will receive the highest ever payments under the damper, which was introduced in 2019 - they will amount to about 2,15 trillion rubles against 670 billion rubles at the end of last year, Kommersant writes. "
            1. Alf
              +2
              16 February 2023 21: 15
              Quote: Wildcat
              In what country, for example, do they also give money to "oil workers" from the budget?

              Only in Wonderland, well, or in Russia, which is basically the same thing... As in Asmolov's song, it's not for nothing that we were called Wonderland.
  29. +6
    16 February 2023 18: 01
    Oh yes, a brilliant plan, to put all the weapons on a complex bracket without any armor cover. So that it can be destroyed by anything. I don’t even want to comment on the idea with the coffins of the landing on the sides
  30. +5
    16 February 2023 22: 15
    Unfortunately, nonsense, I did not expect to see an alternative technique on the site Sir, you made a mistake with the site.
    1. Alf
      +3
      17 February 2023 19: 44
      Quote from Vert
      Unfortunately, nonsense, I did not expect to see an alternative technique on the site Sir, you made a mistake with the site.

      On other sites they will not even listen to him ...
      1. -1
        18 February 2023 07: 19
        Quote: Alf
        On other sites they will not even listen to him ...

        See how many of them reprint my materials, and then write. You have to be ... more reliable in your insinuations.
  31. +7
    16 February 2023 22: 59
    Oh my God, my God, but why the fighters during a battle or during a march? And even inside the car? Before that, you can't, right? And here you have armored capsules with a hole under the ass for shit. And in the pants, too, to make a hole? Otherwise, anyway, the fighter will put them in his pants, because he will not be able to take them off in this armored capsule. Author, dear, drink bromine, Kulibin.
  32. +8
    16 February 2023 23: 02
    Damn, does the site somehow filter articles? Well, this is a damn, scream! smile How can this be missed? What did it remind me of?
    When I was ten or twelve years old, I was also a cool inventor and designer. But my war machine was even cooler! She was the size of a battleship. At the top, she had three decks on which were located various types of weapons known to me. There were machine guns, and cannons, and rocket launchers and MLRS - each piece, four or six on each side, it was on tracks, but the tracks were closed so that they could not be destroyed. Upstairs I had a fighting compartment, and downstairs there was also a landing force three stories high. The front doors of my land battleship opened up and after my super fortress, having approached the enemy’s fortress, hit everything and everyone with the mass of its weapons, tanks, soldiers, cannons and other things rolled out from the front of my super combat vehicle, which a ten-year-old child had an idea about. Damn, I read this article, and I understand that I was not so stupid. laughing I read an article and propose to bring my project to life. He's tougher. It's almost like the Death Star, only on land. He also had a super drive and super armor. And even a nuclear bomb could not take it. Oh! Dreams, dreams... When we were young and carried beautiful nonsense. wassat Interestingly, the author is much older than me then?
    Damn, to be honest, I had a higher opinion about this military forum.
    1. +5
      16 February 2023 23: 16
      Interestingly, the author is much older than me then?

      If my memory serves me right, the author is approaching his seventieth birthday this year.
      1. +6
        16 February 2023 23: 30
        I'm sorry, but maybe this is the age when adolescence begins again, followed by childhood?
        1. +2
          16 February 2023 23: 57
          adolescence begins, followed by childhood?

          It seems that the classic argued that between childhood and youth there should still be adolescence?
        2. Alf
          +1
          17 February 2023 19: 47
          Quote: Hagakure
          I'm sorry, but maybe this is the age when adolescence begins again, followed by childhood?

          He skipped the stage of youth on retirement, immediately falling into childhood ...
      2. +4
        17 February 2023 02: 43
        This year, not yet. But I don't think it's a reason for ridicule. Everyone will be there. If they survive.
        1. +5
          17 February 2023 02: 58
          Nobody scoffs, so, a discussion of the variants of the saying: "Caesar's is Caesar's, and locksmith's is locksmith's." The "History" section started working a day later, and Shpakovsky invents either infantry fighting vehicles with toilets, or self-propelled guns backwards. Everyone wants to become famous in the field of inventing fratricidal shells.
          everything got mixed up in the Oblonskys' house
          1. +2
            17 February 2023 07: 29
            ." The "History" section started working in a day,
            It really hurts.
      3. +5
        17 February 2023 18: 47
        Well, yes .. senile insanity is coming ...... hi
  33. +6
    16 February 2023 23: 12
    Do we smoke? We smoke and something zaboristoe.
    Reflections on the theme of a teenager from the 4th grade
  34. +4
    17 February 2023 00: 12
    The author was inspired by the design of English trains, where each compartment had its own door.
  35. +3
    17 February 2023 00: 33
    How the brilliant mathematician Chebyshev began his lecture on cutting fabric: "Suppose that a person has the shape of a ball ..."
    It’s free for them, mathematicians, their abstract thinking is oh-so-developed. And after these words, the cutting designers almost all left the lecture, although it was certainly interesting there.
    But here's the lethal pepelats, which spoiled the image of a superpower in a couple of days, just the same ball, from Chinese couturiers.
    Now, maybe an armored personnel carrier / infantry fighting vehicle should optimally have the shape of a ball? For one or two persons.
    Protection from all projections is the same, including from above and below, the consumption of material for armor and weight are optimal, it can move in any direction without turning, four small wheels-rollers or caterpillar groups on a turntable, the ability to roll over obstacles with an independently suspended internal capsule.
    And then, in different halves or other slices, from there the shooter with a bumblebee darted, the slices closed, the bun rolled longer to sing songs. A mine explosion will push the ball away from the explosion site, albeit in the form of a blow, but will not destroy it (up to a certain explosive power). A cumulative charge to hit perpendicular to the surface - well, it's unlikely, there is very little such area on each side of the ball.
    Here, I fantasized. Before bedtime.
    1. Alf
      0
      17 February 2023 19: 52
      Quote: faterdom
      Here, I fantasized. Before bedtime.

      Here Dmitry Ivanovich Mendeleev dreamed of his periodic table at night and he made a discovery that glorified him for centuries. And what did you dream about at night after SUCH an evening idea, I'm afraid to even imagine ... laughing
  36. -2
    17 February 2023 01: 12
    Quote: Vladimir80
    I would study the best modern foreign analogues, choose the best one and copy it.


    I agree with you 100%, take the best ideas and adapt them to your conditions, you will get the best result.
    I propose to create a heavy infantry fighting vehicle on the T-90 platform, take the German LINYX infantry fighting vehicle as a model.
    Weight about 40 tons
    Engine 1000 HP
    Crew 3 people.
    Landing 6 -8 people
    Armament and ammunition must be located inside the remote-controlled tower.
    Reinforced turret roof and hull protection against cluster munitions. Mine protection includes a double bottom.
    Armament:
    1. Automatic gun AU-220M caliber 57mm with an increased ammunition capacity of 200 rounds.
    2. coupled PKTM-7,62 or KORD 12,7
    3. ATGM ATTACK (2PU)
    4. on the tower is a remotely controlled module with AGS "Balkan" 40mm
    1. Alf
      +1
      17 February 2023 19: 57
      Quote: assault
      Quote: Vladimir80
      I would study the best modern foreign analogues, choose the best one and copy it.


      I agree with you 100%, take the best ideas and adapt them to your conditions, you will get the best result.
      I propose to create a heavy infantry fighting vehicle on the T-90 platform, take the German LINYX infantry fighting vehicle as a model.
      Weight about 40 tons
      Engine 1000 HP
      Crew 3 people.
      Landing 6 -8 people
      Armament and ammunition must be located inside the remote-controlled tower.
      Reinforced turret roof and hull protection against cluster munitions. Mine protection includes a double bottom.
      Armament:
      1. Automatic gun AU-220M caliber 57mm with an increased ammunition capacity of 200 rounds.
      2. coupled PKTM-7,62 or KORD 12,7
      3. ATGM ATTACK (2PU)
      4. on the tower is a remotely controlled module with AGS "Balkan" 40mm

      And the T-15 will come out.
  37. +4
    17 February 2023 03: 59
    Where to put faeces? Or maybe just not eat before the fight? And if you fundamentally like to go on the attack with a full intestine, what prevents you from applying such an important achievement of mankind as Pampers! No, well, of course, an individual armored toilet in the field is a force. Question: Who will clean these capsules? Individually, each his own, or will they appoint 4 scammers of some kind? And why is it possible for three crew members to crap inside, and the troops were sent into the garden. I propose that the driver and the shooter and the commander also be hung outside. I propose to fill the vacant volume with toilet paper and antiseptics.
  38. +1
    17 February 2023 09: 06
    Quote: Master2030
    The future infantry-infantry fighting vehicle of the battlefield based on serial obt.


    The future of infantry is exoskeletons.
    True, not very soon.
  39. -1
    17 February 2023 09: 51
    Well, the generals are preparing for the last, and the couch experts for the current wars. The future belongs to small, controlled drones on tracks that cover drones with blades in the air. Finish KAZ Arena or an analogue for a drone against MANPADS and ATGMs and that's it - any enemy is a target. And only then, in similar outward appearances, the landing party rides / flies to clean up the area, take prisoners, etc.
    If it's easier in managed reliable platforms of different dimensions and in different environments. And then hang any equipment. Only a set of measures! - everything else is a reaction to the wars before last. Well, the connection with intelligence is even more important. For having a quadric with a thermal imager for each platoon / battery / tank, a decent connection - the left bank of the Dnieper would definitely be taken and held without mobilization.
    The price of a quadric with a heatpack is now about $ 10000. A MILLION of these would cost "only" $10 billion. Against the backdrop of a stable fund and lost in Western banks - nothing.
  40. +3
    17 February 2023 10: 07
    Obscene ideas have already brought our system to collapse. Do you also want to spoil the BMP now?
  41. +2
    17 February 2023 10: 09
    For a modern infantryman, the idea of ​​such an BMP-BTR, with an external landing in some kind of armored capsules, is absolutely unacceptable.
    Although. Let's fantasize about the future of the infantry. Imagine heavily armed infantry in armored exosuits. It will be almost impossible to put such an infantryman inside an armored vehicle with an adequate size of the troop compartment. In order to deliver such infantry to the LBS as soon as possible, combat transporters with an external landing position, in some lodgements, will most likely be needed. But these are fantasies about the future...
  42. +4
    17 February 2023 10: 39
    I read to the toilet in the paratrooper's armored capsule and stopped reading. Laughter interferes.
  43. +1
    17 February 2023 10: 43
    Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
    However, modern "experts" with tenacity worthy of a better application, are trying to make a kind of tank out of the BMP so that it can act ahead of the infantry.


    It's indestructible. You make an ordinary truck with light armor, they start asking why there is no machine gun.
    You put a machine gun, they immediately begin to compare with an armored personnel carrier. And the armored personnel carriers are immediately compared with the infantry fighting vehicle, which is compared with a light tank.
    Etc.
    And there is no end to this song!

    Ideally, you need your own equipment for your database theater, but this is a matter of budget, and it is not rubber, there is not enough for "kickbacks" ...
    1. +3
      17 February 2023 13: 04
      Quote: wlkw
      It's indestructible. You make an ordinary truck with light armor, they start asking why there is no machine gun.
      You put a machine gun, they immediately begin to compare with an armored personnel carrier. And the armored personnel carriers are immediately compared with the infantry fighting vehicle, which is compared with a light tank.
      Etc.
      And there is no end to this song!

      This is indestructible, of course, but not in this case ... protecting the BMP with the bodies of fighters is, of course ... yoyoyoyoyoyoyoyo ... only such projectors can have ... I don’t even know how to say culturally !!!
      1. Alf
        +4
        17 February 2023 20: 01
        Quote: Dali
        only ... I don’t even know how to say culturally !!!

        Only Shpakovsky, with his noble gray hair and unhealthy gleam in his eyes...
    2. Alf
      0
      17 February 2023 20: 00
      Quote: wlkw
      You make an ordinary truck with light armor, they start asking why there is no machine gun.
      You put a machine gun, they immediately begin to compare with an armored personnel carrier. And the armored personnel carriers are immediately compared with the infantry fighting vehicle, which is compared with a light tank.
      Etc.
      And there is no end to this song!

      Watch the 1982 film The Pentagon War. good In the same way, Bradley was developed in it. I especially liked the words of the designer after the next Wishlist of the generals - Where will I attach a rocket launcher on it, on the head of an infantryman?
  44. 0
    17 February 2023 10: 58
    what can I say ... there is a mature grain in this approach ... the rest is a matter of taste ...
    about toilets it didn’t come up at all ... well, let’s use howitzers in tanks ... why put them in MTLB ... well, that’s not the problem
    1. Alf
      +1
      17 February 2023 20: 03
      Quote: silberwolf88
      well, let's put howitzers in tanks ... why put them in MTLB ..

      Do not tell Caliber, otherwise, God forbid, it will require ...
  45. 0
    17 February 2023 11: 00
    Weapons rising on the ramp - this theme is in the air.
    Even small-arms close combat sets an example - the fighters shoot from machine guns with outstretched arms. Another would be the aiming of such a fire. In the case of the BMP, this is quite possible.
    M.b. with the help of hydraulics, this will be more feasible.
  46. +2
    17 February 2023 11: 19
    The best option for a future infantry fighting vehicle is an articulated hull, the front hull is a tractor with an uninhabited turret, the rear hull is a place for infantry and additional bk, in the first building due to the rejection of direct drive, an infantry compartment, bk, and a bunch of all kinds of junk, install a powerful dg, drive through electric motors, also the second body will have electric power for the drive and life support. The protection against detonation on a mine is higher, the frontal hull of the infantry fighting vehicle will run into the mine first, it can be strengthened to the maximum against anti-tank weapons, and indeed made uninhabited. As an example: the Arctic "tor", and in the USSR in the late 70s this concept was considered ideal for future infantry fighting vehicles and even tanks, in my opinion there is a similar device in Sweden, up to several joints. With modern technologies and batteries, it became possible to disengage the hull in automatic mode, and on electric traction (it is enough to have a few batteries in each hull) to disperse into positions during shelling and dismount. And there are already such samples, even artillery, which without a tug itself can change its position, up to 8 km.
  47. +2
    17 February 2023 11: 34
    Quote: A vile skeptic
    Well, finally, the correct purpose of the BMP. Now, in the NVO, they step on a rake ten times, constantly concentrating troops to attack in the range of artillery fire.

    Since the 60s, the situation with awareness in the theater of operations has somewhat changed. It is impossible to attack without concentrating troops. In order to avoid losses from artillery fire at the stage of concentration, it is necessary to be able to plug this very artillery. Our "rake" is the lack of funds to do this.

    It's right. Suppression of enemy artillery is one of the most important tasks in an offensive battle. But, no matter how hard they try, a certain percentage of the enemy’s artillery systems will still survive and will conduct barrage fire.
    By the way, in order to prevent fire damage, troops in the initial areas were supposed to be dispersed, and the density of the attacking group was created with the advancement from the initial areas. The advance took place during the period of artillery preparation, and tanks and infantry fighting vehicles/armored personnel carriers were supposed to move to the line of deployment in battle lines simultaneously with the completion of artillery preparation and the transition to artillery support for an attack using the barrage method and successive concentration of fire.
    And, I have to agree that the counter-battery fight failed completely from the word. The artillery terror of the Wehrmacht's coming out has not been able to be stopped for a year now. But excuses were ingeniously invented why this could not be done.
  48. +2
    17 February 2023 14: 51
    The only question is why the author is "developing" a landing vehicle without thinking that during this most notorious landing, either one group will have to be put under fire or both at once.
    1. Alf
      +4
      17 February 2023 20: 05
      Quote from justdance
      The only question is why the author is "developing" a landing vehicle without thinking that during this most notorious landing, either one group will have to be put under fire or both at once.

      Usually, such authors are advised like this - we will do as you suggest, but you will sit in the first car yourself and go into battle on it. Usually, after such a proposal, the master quietly falls off his crazy hands ...
  49. 0
    17 February 2023 18: 52
    Hi all. I read the author, comments. Decided to sign up.
    IMHO.
    All over the world there is no concept of modern combat that guarantees low losses of armored vehicles, much has changed. To minimize losses, you need to look both in the tactics of application (basic) and in the design of the samples. Obviously it's related.
    Emphasis on the ability of the technique to swim? Security loss. But it is necessary to force water barriers. Exit?
    1. Preliminary powerful artillery preparation at a front of 15 kilometers to ensure a narrow forcing corridor, with the destruction of ATGMs and MANPADS on the opposite bank.
    2. The transfer of artillery impact to the depth of defense with the beginning of forcing by floating armored vehicles and the targeted destruction of the revived enemy firing points from tanks and ATGMs. In the role of floating equipment of the first "wave" to reduce personnel losses, IMHO, it would be better to be non-landing, 3 crew members, with the ability to conduct dense fire (57mm, 8,6 mm machine guns for guaranteed penetration of body armor, ATGM), with a large ammunition load. After their advancement - armored vehicles with troops.
    3. Next, a fleeting helicopter assault on an expanded bridgehead, if necessary.
    4. Organization of a pontoon crossing of the rest of the equipment.
    And of course, the organization of air defense and counter-battery combat. Without them, launching an offensive in modern conditions is very risky. If it is quite possible to organize air defense with us now, then it has not been worked out against artillery. During an offensive, a multiple increase in the means of detecting enemy artillery and an increase in means of suppression are necessary, with their reservation due to the inevitable decrease in capabilities during the counter-battery response of the enemy. To create a multiple superiority in this area of ​​​​offensive is quite realistic even now.
    I am silent about electronic warfare and aviation - it is also quite realistic.

    Fights in the city and mountains - heavy infantry fighting vehicles with dynamic protection and the ability to conduct dense fire in all directions. One tower is not enough, additional machine gunners are needed in the stern on both sides. Not through a "hole", but from rotating turrets. So that the places of machine gunners do not interfere with the landing, you can place them in the fender space. Place diameter 1 meter. With a hull width of 3,5 meters, we minus two meters - 1,5 meters remain for disembarkation.
    More in the place of machine gunners. If the drive and guide rollers are made closer to the bottom, then the fenders will be about half a meter from the bottom. With a hull height of 1,5 meters, the fender space will be a meter high (this often happens on Western models), plus a turret height of thirty centimeters - as a result, 1,3 meters is enough. By the way, you can add an AGS to a machine gun.
    1. -2
      18 February 2023 07: 25
      Quote: EugeneS
      Decided to sign up.

      Now compare your comment and 90% of the rest and evaluate which company you are in! But on the other hand, it's good, right? Lets you feel... yes?
  50. 0
    18 February 2023 03: 43
    Quote: Bad_gr
    To use a man in an iron box as a bulwark for an armored vehicle is, of course, original, but something in it is not right ...

    Well, not just bulwarks from "humans", but also containers with feces. Checkmate, skeptics ;)
  51. -2
    18 February 2023 11: 06
    Looks like there's a limit on characters per post. I'll continue with the second one.
    Sorry for the pause due to moderation. For now I am only allowed one comment per day.
    ...
    The AGS ammunition is on the outside (we are talking about an additional AGS to the machine gun in the first comment).
    It is better to use a BDUM with a 57mm cannon and a machine gun in the center as the central turret. As a result, the crew consisted of 4 people - a driver, a BDUM commander and two gunners. The landing force can easily accommodate 8 people.
    The fender space is free except for a meter for machine gunners. This can be used to improve protection - there is dynamic protection on the bulwark, ceramic protection or something else behind it (I’ve heard about blocks with negative pressure, where the cumulative jet expands, I could be wrong). If you install such triple protection (plus the main armor), then the side of the hull one meter high will be well protected. For the city and mountains (and forests) this is a very important factor.

    The engine is, of course, in the front. And if the body height is about 1,5 meters, then the engine height is less. Thanks to this, it is possible to improve the protection of the upper frontal part by designing the over-engine part in the form of a protective casing (with dynamic protection and ceramics) sliding to the sides for access to the MTO. This way, protection against damage will be improved both from frontal attacks and from artillery attacks (a little), RPGs or ATGMs from above. Three meters of such a protective casing is almost half of the upper part of the machine.
    Such a TBMP will be quite effective on flat terrain when interacting with tanks.

    And, of course, it is necessary to increase the distance between units of equipment - the effectiveness of enemy artillery fire will decrease.
    When moving in large columns, it is necessary to provide cargo transport and light armor with a protected wide corridor. Perhaps 15-20 kilometers. Otherwise, there will be greater losses from ATGMs and artillery.
    It is realistic to establish air defense against drones and aircraft in such a corridor even with current models. Artillery gunners-DRGs can use radar for detecting ground targets and provide counter-battery warfare. To control the border of the corridor, use your UAVs. Modern conditions dictate an increase in the number of drones, air defense systems and counter-battery warfare. Without them, carrying out any operations is very risky.
    To create such corridors, it is necessary to advance with a front of 15-20 km, immediately creating protection for the corridor along the flanks (minefields, observation and strongholds).
    Such corridors, saturated with air defense, artillery and reaction groups, can already carry out deep breakthroughs. Other methods are unlikely to be effective with modern means of destruction. If you take care of personnel and equipment, then you cannot do without careful covering of the attackers - there will be forty percent of the attackers themselves, and sixty percent will be the forces covering their own and processing the defending enemy.

    The same applies to aviation operations. Half attacks, half covers. And it will definitely be from someone. A serious enemy does not act straightforwardly and primitively; he is ready to strike both the attackers and the covering ones. It is necessary to outplay it with forecasting, multi-moves, and readiness to counter with reserves in offensive sectors. It is mandatory to create superiority in forces in a narrow area in all branches of the military. Aviation is even easier than others due to the jump airfields.

    Let's return to the ground forces.
    During the assault, you can use remote-controlled armored vehicles. The BMP-3 engine is small in height (60 centimeters) and pulls 20 tons. If you use it, you can get a sample one meter high along the roof of the building (60 plus 40 ground clearance), four meters long. With such dimensions, a 20-ton vehicle will be very well protected - main armor, dynamic, plus a low silhouette. It is enough to make a BDUM with a 30mm cannon, an AGS and a machine gun - during an attack, such an armored vehicle will be more of an irritant - they will open fire on it, and identified enemy firing points can be hit by tanks from a distance, artillery, helicopters, ATGMs and AGS. The enemy's artillery will also be exposed.
    Well, such a machine needs a mine sweeper. It will also be additional protection in the frontal projection. You can attack these vehicles with a sharp wedge, continuous in width and stretched with the required distance along the length of the attack, then a wide corridor will be cleared for a breakthrough of infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers to the enemy trenches.

    Such remote-controlled armored vehicles, with the engine located in the front, can be used to evacuate the wounded from the battlefield and deliver ammunition. Also for the delivery of DRGs or ATGM crews in hazardous areas. To pull in the wounded, you need a manipulator and a feed lowered down. To transport ammunition, you need a hull roof that can be raised from the stern to ensure ease of loading and unloading.

    Like that. ))
  52. 0
    18 February 2023 11: 40
    Quote: kalibr
    Now compare your comment and 90% of the rest and evaluate which company you are in! But on the other hand, it's good, right? Lets you feel... yes?

    Lack of civility is nothing new on the Internet. ))
    But in essence the answers I agree with those commenting. Your proposal does not reduce the risk of defeat - they will be hit both by the impact of a mine and by artillery fire. Before the SVO, I didn’t even think that shells exploding close to light armored vehicles could hit them so effectively. Still, you need to be inside behind good armor, although this is not a panacea.
  53. 0
    18 February 2023 13: 46
    Quote: dfk-80
    Because having a quad with a thermal imager for each platoon/battery/tank, decent communications, the left bank of the Dnieper would definitely be taken and held without mobilization.


    Very controversial.
    I remember that one American general (who had real combat experience) remarked about all this “military Internet”, “network-centric wars” and other things: “Dispelling the fog of war is good, but it still does not guarantee victory. Now I’ll sit down to play chess against the grandmaster , and I will play as usual, and he will play blindly, not seeing the board... so what? Will I be able to beat him?"
    Even with the most advanced reconnaissance and communications, it is possible to leak if the enemy has a decisive superiority in forces and acts more competently tactically.
  54. 0
    18 February 2023 13: 53
    Quote: saruman
    Imagine heavily armed infantry in armored exosuits. It will be almost impossible to put such an infantryman inside an armored vehicle with an adequate size troop compartment. In order to quickly deliver such infantry to the LBS, combat transporters will most likely be needed


    Screened aircraft, helicopters, hovercraft. There is no need to armor such carriers; they can unload soldiers and immediately leave the affected area.
  55. 0
    20 February 2023 16: 28
    , a bunch of words and nonsense. To begin a discussion of this opus (we celebrated something early, maybe it’s an Afghan veteran’s fault, then yes), it’s worth understanding the meaning of the Russian words “infantry fighting vehicle,” combat, as it seems to me, is still a battlefield vehicle, for direct fire support of infantry directly in combat formations, the main heavy weapon, weapon MSO MSB TP TD, there is no word liner, transport, bus, carhouse, etc., the main and main definition is COMBAT. Hence, one should determine its characteristics that are relevant at a given time in relation to specific tactics in a given theater of operations. Secondly, there is no 100% protection against all modern means of fighting BTT, technology does not allow it, at the moment it is impossible. Just as knightly armor did not save knights from death and injury, modern technology is only a means of relative safety, like a plastic helmet at a construction site.
  56. The comment was deleted.
  57. 0
    25 February 2023 16: 51
    Great. We don’t have enough problems with armoring our equipment, and a gentleman has come out who proposes to use infantrymen instead of dynamic protection... Go with such ideas to the Ukrainians, we will benefit from this more.